April 15, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of The Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen welcome Joanne Waldman, a pioneer in retirement coaching with over 30 years of experience. Joanne shares powerful stories and strategies for helping clients transition into retirement, focusing on emotional and personal growth beyond financial planning. From reframing fear to visualization techniques, Joanne provides practical methods to navigate the complexities of retirement. The episode dives deep into her unique approach, her pivotal life moments, and the significant impact of curiosity, love, and open-ended questions in coaching. Joanne also offers insights into the common challenges faced by retirees and emphasizes the importance of planning and communication. Listeners gain valuable tips for making a fulfilling and joyful retirement transition.
00:00 Client's Journey from Fear to Footwork
01:01 Welcome to The Real Retirement Show
01:44 Introducing Joanne Waldman: A Trailblazer in Retirement Coaching
03:26 Joanne's Personal and Professional Journey
06:38 Unique Approaches to Retirement Coaching
09:10 Challenges and Niches in Retirement Coaching
11:54 Signature Exercises and Frameworks
18:11 Powerful Client Transformations
21:49 Qualities of a Great Coach
26:49 Top Tips for Retirement Planning
30:27 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
About Joanne Waldman
With more than 30 progressive years in the career transition field, Joanne is a trailblazer in the retirement coaching world. For 18 years she served as the Director of Training with Retirement Options and has an extensive background as a webinar leader with the International Coach Academy, and Coaching Cognition. She is the owner of New Perspective Coaching where she works with clients to plan their second or third reinvention into retirement. A Professional Certified Coach through the International Coaching Federation, a Board-Certified Coach through the Center for Credentialing and Education, and through the National Career Development Association in 2009, she was selected as their Career Practitioner of the Year. In 2021, Joanne was honored with the Retirement Catalyst Award from the Retirement Coaches Association. Joanne received a retirement coaching certification through Retirement Options. She is also a licensed professional counselor in the state of Missouri, a nationally certified counselor and a nationally certified gerontological counselor. Joanne is a co-author of "Out of the Box Retirement-Creative Ideas, Role Models and Possibilities" and has been quoted as a retirement expert in Kiplinger’s, Forbes, Wall Street Journal/Market Watch and Where to Retire magazine.
Resources
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanne-waldman-0002281/
Website: https://www.newperspectivecoaching.com/
Email: joanne@newperspectivecoaching.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joanne.waldman
Real Retirement Video Podcast: Real Retirement - YouTube
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Joanne Waldman (00:00):
I had a client who was a single person, got
(00:04):
laid off experiencing a lot offear.
So I asked her to come up withanother word using the letter F
to replace fear, and she came upwith footwork and she said,
every time I feel fear, it tellsme I have footwork to do.
I have something to do.
I.
So using things like that tohelp reframe a perspective.
(00:26):
The other thing I have is avisualization that I do, and I
can use it specifically forretirement and it's called from
frustrating to fascinating, andI take them through this
visualization of thisfrustrating situation.
It could be their retirement andhow they feel and what they see
(00:47):
and what they think around it.
And then we reframe and weswitch.
And now it's fascinating.
And what changes, what shifts?
It's pretty phenomenal.
If they can do it.
Yasmin Nguyen (01:01):
Welcome back to The Real Retirement Show.
My name is Yasmin.
Here with my co-host Kathleen.
Whether you're retired orthinking about retirement, we
delve into the multifacetedworld of retirement beyond the
finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:21):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health,
to finding purpose, we tacklethe issues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(01:44):
Our special guest today isJoanne Waldman.
With more than 30 progressiveyears in the career transitions
field, Joanne is a trailblazerin the retirement coaching
world.
I.
For 18 years, she served as thedirector of training with
retirement options and hasextensive background as a
(02:04):
webinar leader with theInternational Coaching Academy
and Coaching Cognition.
She's the owner of NewPerspective Coaching where she
works with clients to plan theirsecond or third reinvention into
retirement.
A professional certified coachthrough the International
Coaching Federation, a boardcertified coach through the
(02:26):
Center of Credentialing andEducation, and through the
National Career DevelopmentAssociation in 2009, she was
selected as the careerpractitioner of the year.
In 2021, Joanne was honored withthe Retirement Catalyst Award
from the Retirement CoachesAssociation.
Joanne received a retirementcoaching certification through
(02:49):
retirement Options.
She's also a licensedprofessional counselor in the
state of Missouri, a nationallycertified counselor, and a
nationally certifiedgerontological counselor.
Joanne is a co-author of Out ofthe Box Retirement Creative
Ideas.
Roles, role models andpossibilities, and has been
(03:09):
quoted as a retirement expert inKiplinger's, Forbes, wall Street
Journal, market Watch, and WhereTo Retire Magazine.
We are so delighted and honoredto have you here, Joanne.
Thank you for joining us.
Joanne Waldman (03:23):
Thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to be heretoo.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:27):
Now, Joanne, I am just curious how this
illustrious, career started andwhat inspired you to explore
retirement as an area of yourfocus.
Joanne Waldman (03:38):
Well, I wanna go back to when I was 19.
my father was unfortunatelydying and the last conversation
we had was that he couldn't diebecause he hadn't done
everything he wanted to do inhis life.
He was 50 and he died a weeklater.
And that really sort of stuck inmy head, in terms of its
(04:01):
importance for everyone to dowhat they can with the time they
have in their life.
And that I became, a counselor.
and, it propelled me in terms ofthe work that I did.
later on, I, I took a lot ofcourses in college around, like
(04:23):
aging and, psychology.
And I continued on with thatkind of work.
I actually eventually did afellowship at St.
Louis University in gerontology,which was really interesting.
it was a medical fellowship andI was the only non-medical
person in the program, so I, Ilearned a lot.
(04:48):
I met my mentor when I was inmy, probably mid twenties.
I was the, president of theMissouri Career Development
Association at the time, and hewas the president of Missouri
Adult Development and AgingOrganization.
We met at a conference and, Wejust clicked.
He had done research and wasdoing retirement work in the
(05:12):
seventies, way before everybodyelse.
So he taught me a lot.
And, I then, eventually went towork for an organization that
did outplacement.
And, in 1993 I worked with acompany president who retired.
So really my first retirementclient.
(05:33):
And then in 96, Mel and KT inMonsanto had some big layoffs
and this organization came to meand said, put together a
retirement program.
So I went to my mentor and hehelped me put together a program
and it goes from there.
He owned retirement options andwhen coaching came up and we
(05:55):
were connected and he said, Ithink we have a coaching program
here.
That's when we started trainingnon-financial retirement
coaches.
Yasmin Nguyen (06:04):
Well you've had a long career as well too, Joanne,
and I'm curious, has there beena pivotal moment in your life or
career that's really shaped yourphilosophy on retirement?
I.
Joanne Waldman (06:16):
I think really back to my dad working, thinking
about him and what happened tohim.
and wanting to help other peoplenot have that happen to them.
And then meeting Dr.
Johnson, my mentor.
I think those two combined werepretty pivotal in, in my career
(06:36):
and work I.
Kathleen Mundy (06:38):
Joanne, you have a unique approach when helping
retirees.
How did you develop that?
I.
Joanne Waldman (06:45):
as both a counselor and a coach, I think I
come at it a little differentlymaybe than some people.
And really, I think just myexperience and my training have
helped me develop the way I workwith clients.
I've trained hundreds ofnon-financial retirement coaches
and life coaches, and havingthat I think also brings a
(07:09):
unique perspective to all this.
Because, I've been, taught themthe foundations of all the work
and I can see how, the neatthing is how that sort of
ripples out still in, in theuniverse today.
Yasmin Nguyen (07:26):
Joanne, you've been so instrumental in shaping
the careers of thoseprofessionals that are out there
practicing and helping clientsnavigate the non-financial
aspects of their journey.
And I'm curious, what have youlearned in training so many
people through the variousdifferent process of being
professionals in this field?
Joanne Waldman (07:46):
when I wrote my own coaching model, what I'd
like to do is take people fromwho am I to, who I am.
And I think that's reallyimportant in the work that I do.
what I've learned trainingpeople is that, Sometimes it's
difficult to retrain ourself asa coach, as opposed as done as a
consultant or giving advice.
(08:08):
so I think that's important.
What I've learned is thatthere's no one right way.
I just talked to an old studentof mine who was getting some
additional training.
in this training, they weretelling him he was doing it
wrong.
and I've encountered that onmore than one occasion.
That, there's, my father againtaught me that there was more
(08:32):
than one way to the top of themountain.
So we all can take a differentpath as a coach, as long as
we're still coaching and nottelling people what to do.
I think there are many ways thatyou can do this and many
modalities that you could use.
and it's so interesting, again,back to when I was training
(08:52):
coaches and they had to createtheir own coaching model to see
how people did that.
one person was an artist and dida piece of artwork and another
was a poet and used poetry andthere's.
every client is unique and wehave to really take them where
they are
Yasmin Nguyen (09:10):
Speaking of unique clients, what are the
challenges that your, theclients that you focus on
experiencing?
what's going on in their lives,and is there a specific niche
that you focus on?
Joanne Waldman (09:21):
I'll start with the challenges.
I think everybody is challengedwith meaning and purpose.
who am I in this world?
One of the questions I love toask is, why are you on this
planet?
I don't ask a lot of whyquestions.
That's the only one I'll ask.
So to help people figure out whothey are and why they're here
(09:42):
and in their later lives, how wecan help piece all that
together.
Where to live has come up quitea few times lately.
it's the number two question inretirement is it's been, an
interesting one for a lot of myclients.
and, career kinds of things.
I'm a career counselor by tradeso a lot of my clients.
(10:05):
Don't wanna stop working, andthey might not necessarily wanna
do what they were doing before,or they might wanna do a piece
of what they were doing before,or they wanna give back in some
capacity, which maybe theydidn't have the ability to do
earlier in their career.
Kathleen Mundy (10:25):
Joanne, I should have probably asked this
question a little bit earlier,and it ties in with the
previous.
What makes your approach toretirement coaching unique?
I.
Joanne Waldman (10:34):
being a counselor and a coach, I can
combine that, it gives me, aninsight into.
Maybe different things that,that other people don't have.
'cause I trained so many people,I have a good idea of what's
going on with clients, with,other people I, supervised over
(10:56):
the years.
understanding what's running theshow underneath for clients, I
think is something I do verywell.
everyone I believe is challengedwith these belief systems that
they have and I think the numberone, difficult belief system
that we all deal with is thatI'm not good enough.
(11:17):
And I think it shows up in somany ways and helping clients.
Work through that.
I've had so many clients overthe years who had never been
allowed to do what they wantedto do, and that's been important
too.
They may see this as their lastshot to really do what they
love.
And helping clients get to thatpoint, is really important.
Yasmin Nguyen (11:40):
Joanne, when you talk about this common belief
that I'm not good enough.
How do you help your clientsnavigate that and really step
into, the next chapter with,perhaps a different perspective?
Joanne Waldman (11:54):
I love doing that.
you know, my business is newperspective coaching, so that,
that's really fun.
the number one question ispointing out, is that the truth?
what's really going on with you?
let's look at who you are, whoyou've been, and find the good,
find the positive.
I just did it a few weeks agoand I'm doing again, I've got a
(12:16):
class that I teach fromstumbling blocks to stepping
stones.
I did it for a group of youngentrepreneurs, 18 to 24, a
couple of weeks ago.
But there's a couple of thingsthat you can do.
There's some games I play withclients.
I call it the perspective gameI'll give you an example.
(12:37):
I had a client who was a singleperson, got laid off
experiencing a lot of fear.
So I asked her to come up withanother word using the letter F
to replace fear, and she came upwith footwork and she said,
every time I feel fear, it tellsme I have footwork to do.
(12:57):
I have something to do.
I.
So using things like that tohelp reframe a perspective.
The other thing I have is avisualization that I do, and I
can use it specifically forretirement and it's called from
frustrating to fascinating, andI take them through this
visualization of thisfrustrating situation.
(13:19):
It could be their retirement andhow they feel and what they see
and what they think around it.
And then we reframe and weswitch.
And now it's fascinating.
And what changes, what shifts?
It's pretty phenomenal.
If they can do it.
20% of people can't visualize.
(13:40):
They have to write instead.
So we can journal about it.
and I had somebody one time Iworked with who said as he was
looking at his retirement andgoing through his past years.
she took what he called failuresand reframe them to springboards
for future success becausereally they were transformative
(14:04):
for him to move forward.
And he was able to say it wasn'tfailure really truthfully
anymore.
It was something profound forhim.
Kathleen Mundy (14:15):
It sounds though, as though you have,
developed some of your signatureexercises and frameworks that
help your clients and,particularly go through that,
transformative stage in theirlife.
Is there anything that you candialogue today about that you
feel works specifically well?
Joanne Waldman (14:36):
when I was.
With retirement options andlearned to use two non-financial
assessments, the Life optionsprofile, the retirement success
profile, and that was really thefoundational piece for the work
that I did with my clients.
and there've been some greatexercises over the years, that
(14:57):
through all that, and powerfulquestions.
that I have loved.
My favorite, powerful questionis, how can you be creative with
change?
Because I don't think those twowords go together, and I think
it sparks something, at least inme and on other people.
another exercise I've used, Iused it with, I wanna say it was
(15:18):
Boeing, a group of executivesfrom Boeing.
And we were looking at what wecall the six life arenas, and
that's career, family,relationship, self spiritual
life, and leisure.
And this particular exerciselooked at, you have a hundred
percent of your time.
(15:41):
That you're using now and thenhow are you gonna use it in
retirement?
So where were they using theirtime now?
And what was so fascinating,these executives realized that
90% of their time was beingspent in career.
What does that leave for?
Everything else?
Not much.
So what did they wanna do inretirement, but not just wait
(16:05):
till retirement?
What can you change shift rightnow to start that process?
So I used that I with a lot ofpeople for them to say, oh, we
don't really have 120% to, wehave a hundred percent in all
this.
And how you divvy it up is howis okay for you?
(16:28):
But when you, how it was skewedif 90% was in one area and
didn't leave much for them, orfamily or leisure or, working
with a lot of these people, someof them never had a leisure
life.
Now, when you asked about myclients, I've usually worked
with pretty high levelindividuals.
(16:48):
Company presidents.
I worked with a four stargeneral one time, which was
really interesting.
I worked with head ofnot-for-profits head, and a lot
of these people just didn't havetime for leisure.
I can remember one client inparticular, I was trying to get
him to think about what leisurehe might like in retirement and
(17:11):
he, he had never.
Thought about equating learningwith fun.
He said, I'm a chemist by trade.
I have an MBA.
Why would I want to be alifelong learner?
What would I wanna learn?
He told me he was interested inwine making.
I guess there's probably somechemistry and wine making, but I
(17:32):
said, what a, what would beinteresting in terms of wine
making?
you'd never thought about takinga class and thought, no, that
might be really fun.
I.
The other thing he came up withwas that maybe he would do a
hobby with his grandchild, a wayto connect with his young
grandchild.
(17:52):
that was an aha moment.
Yasmin Nguyen (17:55):
Those are some powerful examples.
Then just, the way that you'vehelped your clients really not
only reframe, but shift theirperspective.
Right.
That then also really changestheir outlook and the direction
that they can go.
Joanne Waldman (18:08):
I'd like to share another story around that
Yasmin Nguyen (18:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Please.
Joanne Waldman (18:11):
had a client, who was an attorney in a large
organization.
She was like number five in thisvery powerful, well-known
organization.
Unfortunately, her husband haddied 12 years prior, and she
kept saying, I, I can't make adecision without him.
and, I challenged her a littlebit.
(18:32):
you make these importantdecisions at work.
I know you can make decisions.
And one of the things she hadnever done was cleaned out his
desk in her house.
She just couldn't do it.
and I do something called a VIPday with a client where we might
spend the whole day together.
(18:52):
And in this instance we did, andthe goal was to clean out her
husband's desk.
So in the morning we met early,talked about what she wanted to
do and what the process might belike and what some of the
roadblocks might be.
And how she wanted to approachit.
And she decided she needed tohave some fun, again, fun around
(19:14):
doing this.
So she said, I'm gonna make it adance party and play my music
that I love and move while I doit.
And we talked again at noon andshe gotten through some of it
and she found some things thatwere upsetting, but she was
making progress.
And then by the end of the day.
When we had our last call, shehad cleaned out his desk and was
(19:38):
able to do this task that hadput off for 12 years.
I think you've, again, take theclient where they are, helped
her figure out a way to getthrough it.
We chatted in between when shefound books that he had written
notes in, and she didn't wannaget rid of that kind of stuff,
(19:59):
but, that was something shecould cherish.
Kathleen Mundy (20:01):
Joanne, I was gonna ask you if you could share
a story with us that, a clienthad a major breakthrough, but
that certainly is one.
There's no question.
Is there another one you mightbe able to share with our
audience?
Joanne Waldman (20:14):
yeah, I had a guy a while back who was
probably one of my youngerretirees.
He'd sold a business and didn'tneed to work, but he was working
for a friend and really hatingit.
and he wanted to figure out whatto do, and he was a really good
business person and he likeddoing what he called ethical
(20:37):
business deals, and he just feltlike it might be difficult for
him to take money for that.
So I helped him reframe,ethical, the ethical business
deals.
Not only was he helping himselfin this instance, but he was
really helping the other personas well.
(20:57):
And he was then able to moveforward making what he called
these ethical business deals andnot feeling guilty about what he
was doing because he hadreframed what it meant to do.
That.
it was a huge breakthrough forhim because he was really stuck
Yasmin Nguyen (21:17):
with the stories that you've shared so far, it's
very evident that, you areindeed a retirement catalyst.
the recipient of the award, butin many ways, you're activating,
these changes in people that,wouldn't have happened without
you being an integral part ofthat.
I'm curious, you in many wayshave played the role of the
(21:38):
coach of coaches, then you'vetrained so many, and from your
experience, what makes thedifference between a good coach
and a great coach?
what are some of the qualities,what are some of the ways in
which they practice theirprofession that, really makes
them outstanding?
Joanne Waldman (21:57):
I think the first place that we come, a
great coach comes from iscuriosity.
Always have to be curious.
I.
Second place.
It may sound weird, but I thinkthe second place we come from is
a place of love.
A good coach comes from a placeof love, that we don't set the
agenda, we don't tell them whatto do.
(22:19):
That a great coach, can shift,shift in terms of what they're
hearing or sensing.
I heard somebody recently coachand I thought he did a
masterclass in coaching.
He used some lovely analogies tohelp the client understand where
he wanted to take the client.
(22:40):
he checked in with the client,make sure that.
That they were okay.
he set the agreement, which Ifind a lot of coaches don't do
that.
So when the client started toveer from the agreement, he went
back and said, look, we've had afork in the road.
You said you wanna do this, nowyou're talking about this.
Go back and choose one today,we'll do one.
(23:03):
helping the client understand interms of.
Giving good feedback andunderstanding that feedback is
not opinion.
The feedback is just what wehear and what we notice.
and the good, I think the greatcoaches can dance in the moment
with the client can really moveand aren't stuck in one way of
(23:27):
doing something.
Yasmin Nguyen (23:28):
It also reminded me, Joanne, of a previous
conversation that we've had,which is around how, to ask
questions that may notnecessarily be leading, but
questions that help, reveal anddiscover.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Joanne Waldman (23:42):
Yeah.
Asking open-ended questions.
not the, have you, did you,could you, I.
More or not the, no, getting ridof the shoulds and all those
kinds of things.
learning how to ask open-endquestions is not easy.
I, sometimes when I'm coaching,I have to sit and think for a
minute.
'cause what's in my head is theclosed question and how do I
(24:07):
move that around and make it anopen question?
the other thing too, sometimes Ithink it's important to use
humor and coaching.
one of the favorite questions Iever came up with, the client
was upset about something andhaving to run a program and
being upset.
And I said, how can you beelegantly pissed?
(24:28):
and so it, it got a laugh, butit got them thinking about how
to get through the particularsituation they needed to get
through.
Kathleen Mundy (24:38):
as you were, describing how you do this, how
you do your coaching practice, Ihad a thought and it reminded me
some of the dialogue you wereusing reminded me of what a
shepherd must feel i.
Respond to its charges, And sogentle and encouraging but
staying on track, but beingflexible enough to move as the
(25:01):
situation demands and still stayfocused on that result and, I
think that's a, for me, that's areally lovely way to think of it
as opposed to, sometimes theperception is that it's going to
be difficult and it's going tomean I have to reveal things and
I'm not ready for all this yet,
Joanne Waldman (25:22):
Well, I mean, coaching is not easy.
It's not a straight line.
it goes like this and thejourney brings a lot of learning
for us as well as our clients.
if it was like this, it might bepretty boring.
I had to confront a retirementclient the other day, in a
(25:43):
gentle way.
I'm not, I didn't wanna be, inhis face.
But he's not doing his20-year-old a lot of good by,
not teaching him life skills.
Let's put it that way.
And I basically had to say, howis this helping again, it wasn't
harsh.
but it was something that neededto be put out there.
(26:06):
And again, you know, trying totake my opinion out of it, But,
and.
helping clients get out of theshoulds kind of things and
learning to choose to do things.
understanding also commitmentversus trying.
clients will use certainlanguage if they're committed
(26:28):
and other language when they'renot as committed.
And sometimes you can say, Ididn't hear your commitment when
you said you were trying to doX, Y, z.
That's feedback.
That's not opinion, that's notjudgment.
Yasmin Nguyen (26:40):
Joan, you've got so many great nuggets of wisdom
to share, and I believe on yourwebsite you have, a resource
that, that you give variousdifferent tips and advice.
And I'm curious, what are, someof the top tips that you found
most impactful, that, resonatewith people, especially those
who are preparing forretirement?
Joanne Waldman (27:00):
thinking about it, planning for it, and talking
about it.
I have a really good examplethat's happening right now.
And somebody's not my client,but they made this, and I, the
word keeps coming to my mind iswilly-nilly.
That's not the best word or wayto put it, but he made this
snap.
Decision to retire.
(27:23):
didn't think about it much.
Just said, I should retire.
I'm 72.
and when he told the people atwork that he was gonna retire,
they put out, a letter to hisclients and he thought, uhoh, I
didn't even tell my wife.
So I better tell her now beforeother people start telling her,
(27:48):
and if he had talked to otherpeople, I think what would've
happened would've helped to makea plan that he could have maybe
gone down to three days a weekjust to test this out.
put that big toe in the waterand see what retirement is two
days a week, rather than justsaying, I'm done and going and
not having a plan.
(28:11):
So, those I think are reallyimportant things to do.
Have a plan, talk to people, geta coach.
find somebody who can help youthink through this process.
I think that's really important.
also think about, your leisurelife.
some of the biggest problems areboredom.
What am I gonna do with all thistime?
(28:33):
figuring out what your meaningand purpose is, the, that one I
think is just huge for so manypeople.
So tho those were some of thetips on there.
do the gap analysis.
Here's where I am, here's whereI wanna be.
What do I have to do to get frompoint A to point B.
Yasmin Nguyen (28:50):
There's so much to consider on this journey and
something that's reallydifficult to do on our own.
And I think that's why your workand the way in which you've
trained many others as well too,to support people on this
journey is so important as, asis the financial piece of the
planning.
Kathleen Mundy (29:10):
What I hear is you're helping unravel all of
those uncertainties.
I think that's really importantIt's not a shift necessarily,
without caution, but it'sunraveling all of the
intricacies and we talk about aholistic approach to the
retirement journey, and so manypeople get stuck in the
(29:32):
financial aspect of it and don'tunderstand.
Or perhaps aren't aware of allof the complexities.
As you mentioned earlier, 90% oftheir time and attention and
focus was on career.
And without that, with all ofthose other elements within
their life, certainlyrelationships would be one.
(29:53):
If you don't tell your wife thatyou're thinking of this, there
might be a little bit of a gapthere.
So I think unraveling all ofthose uncertainties is
certainly, from what I've, I'mlistening to is certainly a
talent that you have and a, anamazing service that you're
offering your clients and thecompanies that you work with.
Joanne Waldman (30:11):
Thank you.
Yasmin Nguyen (30:12):
there's so much that we could discuss because
certainly the depth and thebreadth of this retirement
journey is quite vast.
and Joanne, we're so delightedand honored that you've taken
the time to share with us yourwisdom from many decades of
work.
And so we're so grateful forthat.
how can our listeners connectwith you?
About your work.
Joanne Waldman (30:32):
They can go to my website.
at new perspective coaching.com.
They can call me at(314)469-3288.
Those are probably the best waysto reach me.
They can also find me onLinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram.
Yasmin Nguyen (30:49):
Well, we'd be happy to share those links and
in, contact information in theshow notes that people can
connect with you directly as wewrap up this short and powerful
conversation, are there any lastwords or thoughts that you'd
like to share with our audience?
Joanne Waldman (31:06):
one of the things I like to say is that
change is hard, but change isbeautiful if we're able to work
through it and.
Open new doors or new avenues orreinvent ourself.
I like taking people on thereinvention tour.
Kathleen Mundy (31:24):
Hmm.
That's a nice way to put it.
I love that.
I love that.
And I also love the fact thatyou provide and think about
humor through the process.
I.
I think that's really a keyelement in having people
understand and diffuse theanxiety they might have.
So I really appreciate that youincorporate that.
Joanne Waldman (31:44):
My mentor taught me that humor is a healing gift.
Kathleen Mundy (31:48):
I think you're a amazing gift to all our
audience, and I'm sure thatthey're gonna find lots of
nuggets in this conversationthat we've had today.
And I really wanna tell you howmuch I've enjoyed it.
And it's always nice to hear andlearn new tips and tricks.
I'm proud to say that I had theadvantage of having a
conversation with you before,but certainly this is a little
(32:09):
deeper and I really appreciatewhat you've.
Explain to us today.
Joanne Waldman (32:15):
Thank you.
Appreciate both of you.
Yasmin Nguyen (32:18):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow and leave acomment or view on your favorite
platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out this show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(32:38):
thisepisode@realretirementshow.com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherreal retirement conversation.
I had a client who was a single person, got
(00:04):
laid off experiencing a lot offear.
So I asked her to come up withanother word using the letter F
to replace fear, and she came upwith footwork and she said,
every time I feel fear, it tellsme I have footwork to do.
I have something to do.
I.
So using things like that tohelp reframe a perspective.
(00:26):
The other thing I have is avisualization that I do, and I
can use it specifically forretirement and it's called from
frustrating to fascinating, andI take them through this
visualization of thisfrustrating situation.
It could be their retirement andhow they feel and what they see
(00:47):
and what they think around it.
And then we reframe and weswitch.
And now it's fascinating.
And what changes, what shifts?
It's pretty phenomenal.
If they can do it.
Yasmin Nguyen (01:01):
Welcome back to The Real Retirement Show.
My name is Yasmin.
Here with my co-host Kathleen.
Whether you're retired orthinking about retirement, we
delve into the multifacetedworld of retirement beyond the
finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:21):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health,
to finding purpose, we tacklethe issues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(01:44):
Our special guest today isJoanne Waldman.
With more than 30 progressiveyears in the career transitions
field, Joanne is a trailblazerin the retirement coaching
world.
I.
For 18 years, she served as thedirector of training with
retirement options and hasextensive background as a
(02:04):
webinar leader with theInternational Coaching Academy
and Coaching Cognition.
She's the owner of NewPerspective Coaching where she
works with clients to plan theirsecond or third reinvention into
retirement.
A professional certified coachthrough the International
Coaching Federation, a boardcertified coach through the
(02:26):
Center of Credentialing andEducation, and through the
National Career DevelopmentAssociation in 2009, she was
selected as the careerpractitioner of the year.
In 2021, Joanne was honored withthe Retirement Catalyst Award
from the Retirement CoachesAssociation.
Joanne received a retirementcoaching certification through
(02:49):
retirement Options.
She's also a licensedprofessional counselor in the
state of Missouri, a nationallycertified counselor, and a
nationally certifiedgerontological counselor.
Joanne is a co-author of Out ofthe Box Retirement Creative
Ideas.
Roles, role models andpossibilities, and has been
(03:09):
quoted as a retirement expert inKiplinger's, Forbes, wall Street
Journal, market Watch, and WhereTo Retire Magazine.
We are so delighted and honoredto have you here, Joanne.
Thank you for joining us.
Joanne Waldman (03:23):
Thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to be heretoo.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:27):
Now, Joanne, I am just curious how this
illustrious, career started andwhat inspired you to explore
retirement as an area of yourfocus.
Joanne Waldman (03:38):
Well, I wanna go back to when I was 19.
my father was unfortunatelydying and the last conversation
we had was that he couldn't diebecause he hadn't done
everything he wanted to do inhis life.
He was 50 and he died a weeklater.
And that really sort of stuck inmy head, in terms of its
(04:01):
importance for everyone to dowhat they can with the time they
have in their life.
And that I became, a counselor.
and, it propelled me in terms ofthe work that I did.
later on, I, I took a lot ofcourses in college around, like
(04:23):
aging and, psychology.
And I continued on with thatkind of work.
I actually eventually did afellowship at St.
Louis University in gerontology,which was really interesting.
it was a medical fellowship andI was the only non-medical
person in the program, so I, Ilearned a lot.
(04:48):
I met my mentor when I was inmy, probably mid twenties.
I was the, president of theMissouri Career Development
Association at the time, and hewas the president of Missouri
Adult Development and AgingOrganization.
We met at a conference and, Wejust clicked.
He had done research and wasdoing retirement work in the
(05:12):
seventies, way before everybodyelse.
So he taught me a lot.
And, I then, eventually went towork for an organization that
did outplacement.
And, in 1993 I worked with acompany president who retired.
So really my first retirementclient.
(05:33):
And then in 96, Mel and KT inMonsanto had some big layoffs
and this organization came to meand said, put together a
retirement program.
So I went to my mentor and hehelped me put together a program
and it goes from there.
He owned retirement options andwhen coaching came up and we
(05:55):
were connected and he said, Ithink we have a coaching program
here.
That's when we started trainingnon-financial retirement
coaches.
Yasmin Nguyen (06:04):
Well you've had a long career as well too, Joanne,
and I'm curious, has there beena pivotal moment in your life or
career that's really shaped yourphilosophy on retirement?
I.
Joanne Waldman (06:16):
I think really back to my dad working, thinking
about him and what happened tohim.
and wanting to help other peoplenot have that happen to them.
And then meeting Dr.
Johnson, my mentor.
I think those two combined werepretty pivotal in, in my career
(06:36):
and work I.
Kathleen Mundy (06:38):
Joanne, you have a unique approach when helping
retirees.
How did you develop that?
I.
Joanne Waldman (06:45):
as both a counselor and a coach, I think I
come at it a little differentlymaybe than some people.
And really, I think just myexperience and my training have
helped me develop the way I workwith clients.
I've trained hundreds ofnon-financial retirement coaches
and life coaches, and havingthat I think also brings a
(07:09):
unique perspective to all this.
Because, I've been, taught themthe foundations of all the work
and I can see how, the neatthing is how that sort of
ripples out still in, in theuniverse today.
Yasmin Nguyen (07:26):
Joanne, you've been so instrumental in shaping
the careers of thoseprofessionals that are out there
practicing and helping clientsnavigate the non-financial
aspects of their journey.
And I'm curious, what have youlearned in training so many
people through the variousdifferent process of being
professionals in this field?
Joanne Waldman (07:46):
when I wrote my own coaching model, what I'd
like to do is take people fromwho am I to, who I am.
And I think that's reallyimportant in the work that I do.
what I've learned trainingpeople is that, Sometimes it's
difficult to retrain ourself asa coach, as opposed as done as a
consultant or giving advice.
(08:08):
so I think that's important.
What I've learned is thatthere's no one right way.
I just talked to an old studentof mine who was getting some
additional training.
in this training, they weretelling him he was doing it
wrong.
and I've encountered that onmore than one occasion.
That, there's, my father againtaught me that there was more
(08:32):
than one way to the top of themountain.
So we all can take a differentpath as a coach, as long as
we're still coaching and nottelling people what to do.
I think there are many ways thatyou can do this and many
modalities that you could use.
and it's so interesting, again,back to when I was training
(08:52):
coaches and they had to createtheir own coaching model to see
how people did that.
one person was an artist and dida piece of artwork and another
was a poet and used poetry andthere's.
every client is unique and wehave to really take them where
they are
Yasmin Nguyen (09:10):
Speaking of unique clients, what are the
challenges that your, theclients that you focus on
experiencing?
what's going on in their lives,and is there a specific niche
that you focus on?
Joanne Waldman (09:21):
I'll start with the challenges.
I think everybody is challengedwith meaning and purpose.
who am I in this world?
One of the questions I love toask is, why are you on this
planet?
I don't ask a lot of whyquestions.
That's the only one I'll ask.
So to help people figure out whothey are and why they're here
(09:42):
and in their later lives, how wecan help piece all that
together.
Where to live has come up quitea few times lately.
it's the number two question inretirement is it's been, an
interesting one for a lot of myclients.
and, career kinds of things.
I'm a career counselor by tradeso a lot of my clients.
(10:05):
Don't wanna stop working, andthey might not necessarily wanna
do what they were doing before,or they might wanna do a piece
of what they were doing before,or they wanna give back in some
capacity, which maybe theydidn't have the ability to do
earlier in their career.
Kathleen Mundy (10:25):
Joanne, I should have probably asked this
question a little bit earlier,and it ties in with the
previous.
What makes your approach toretirement coaching unique?
I.
Joanne Waldman (10:34):
being a counselor and a coach, I can
combine that, it gives me, aninsight into.
Maybe different things that,that other people don't have.
'cause I trained so many people,I have a good idea of what's
going on with clients, with,other people I, supervised over
(10:56):
the years.
understanding what's running theshow underneath for clients, I
think is something I do verywell.
everyone I believe is challengedwith these belief systems that
they have and I think the numberone, difficult belief system
that we all deal with is thatI'm not good enough.
(11:17):
And I think it shows up in somany ways and helping clients.
Work through that.
I've had so many clients overthe years who had never been
allowed to do what they wantedto do, and that's been important
too.
They may see this as their lastshot to really do what they
love.
And helping clients get to thatpoint, is really important.
Yasmin Nguyen (11:40):
Joanne, when you talk about this common belief
that I'm not good enough.
How do you help your clientsnavigate that and really step
into, the next chapter with,perhaps a different perspective?
Joanne Waldman (11:54):
I love doing that.
you know, my business is newperspective coaching, so that,
that's really fun.
the number one question ispointing out, is that the truth?
what's really going on with you?
let's look at who you are, whoyou've been, and find the good,
find the positive.
I just did it a few weeks agoand I'm doing again, I've got a
(12:16):
class that I teach fromstumbling blocks to stepping
stones.
I did it for a group of youngentrepreneurs, 18 to 24, a
couple of weeks ago.
But there's a couple of thingsthat you can do.
There's some games I play withclients.
I call it the perspective gameI'll give you an example.
(12:37):
I had a client who was a singleperson, got laid off
experiencing a lot of fear.
So I asked her to come up withanother word using the letter F
to replace fear, and she came upwith footwork and she said,
every time I feel fear, it tellsme I have footwork to do.
(12:57):
I have something to do.
I.
So using things like that tohelp reframe a perspective.
The other thing I have is avisualization that I do, and I
can use it specifically forretirement and it's called from
frustrating to fascinating, andI take them through this
visualization of thisfrustrating situation.
(13:19):
It could be their retirement andhow they feel and what they see
and what they think around it.
And then we reframe and weswitch.
And now it's fascinating.
And what changes, what shifts?
It's pretty phenomenal.
If they can do it.
20% of people can't visualize.
(13:40):
They have to write instead.
So we can journal about it.
and I had somebody one time Iworked with who said as he was
looking at his retirement andgoing through his past years.
she took what he called failuresand reframe them to springboards
for future success becausereally they were transformative
(14:04):
for him to move forward.
And he was able to say it wasn'tfailure really truthfully
anymore.
It was something profound forhim.
Kathleen Mundy (14:15):
It sounds though, as though you have,
developed some of your signatureexercises and frameworks that
help your clients and,particularly go through that,
transformative stage in theirlife.
Is there anything that you candialogue today about that you
feel works specifically well?
Joanne Waldman (14:36):
when I was.
With retirement options andlearned to use two non-financial
assessments, the Life optionsprofile, the retirement success
profile, and that was really thefoundational piece for the work
that I did with my clients.
and there've been some greatexercises over the years, that
(14:57):
through all that, and powerfulquestions.
that I have loved.
My favorite, powerful questionis, how can you be creative with
change?
Because I don't think those twowords go together, and I think
it sparks something, at least inme and on other people.
another exercise I've used, Iused it with, I wanna say it was
(15:18):
Boeing, a group of executivesfrom Boeing.
And we were looking at what wecall the six life arenas, and
that's career, family,relationship, self spiritual
life, and leisure.
And this particular exerciselooked at, you have a hundred
percent of your time.
(15:41):
That you're using now and thenhow are you gonna use it in
retirement?
So where were they using theirtime now?
And what was so fascinating,these executives realized that
90% of their time was beingspent in career.
What does that leave for?
Everything else?
Not much.
So what did they wanna do inretirement, but not just wait
(16:05):
till retirement?
What can you change shift rightnow to start that process?
So I used that I with a lot ofpeople for them to say, oh, we
don't really have 120% to, wehave a hundred percent in all
this.
And how you divvy it up is howis okay for you?
(16:28):
But when you, how it was skewedif 90% was in one area and
didn't leave much for them, orfamily or leisure or, working
with a lot of these people, someof them never had a leisure
life.
Now, when you asked about myclients, I've usually worked
with pretty high levelindividuals.
(16:48):
Company presidents.
I worked with a four stargeneral one time, which was
really interesting.
I worked with head ofnot-for-profits head, and a lot
of these people just didn't havetime for leisure.
I can remember one client inparticular, I was trying to get
him to think about what leisurehe might like in retirement and
(17:11):
he, he had never.
Thought about equating learningwith fun.
He said, I'm a chemist by trade.
I have an MBA.
Why would I want to be alifelong learner?
What would I wanna learn?
He told me he was interested inwine making.
I guess there's probably somechemistry and wine making, but I
(17:32):
said, what a, what would beinteresting in terms of wine
making?
you'd never thought about takinga class and thought, no, that
might be really fun.
I.
The other thing he came up withwas that maybe he would do a
hobby with his grandchild, a wayto connect with his young
grandchild.
(17:52):
that was an aha moment.
Yasmin Nguyen (17:55):
Those are some powerful examples.
Then just, the way that you'vehelped your clients really not
only reframe, but shift theirperspective.
Right.
That then also really changestheir outlook and the direction
that they can go.
Joanne Waldman (18:08):
I'd like to share another story around that
Yasmin Nguyen (18:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Please.
Joanne Waldman (18:11):
had a client, who was an attorney in a large
organization.
She was like number five in thisvery powerful, well-known
organization.
Unfortunately, her husband haddied 12 years prior, and she
kept saying, I, I can't make adecision without him.
and, I challenged her a littlebit.
(18:32):
you make these importantdecisions at work.
I know you can make decisions.
And one of the things she hadnever done was cleaned out his
desk in her house.
She just couldn't do it.
and I do something called a VIPday with a client where we might
spend the whole day together.
(18:52):
And in this instance we did, andthe goal was to clean out her
husband's desk.
So in the morning we met early,talked about what she wanted to
do and what the process might belike and what some of the
roadblocks might be.
And how she wanted to approachit.
And she decided she needed tohave some fun, again, fun around
(19:14):
doing this.
So she said, I'm gonna make it adance party and play my music
that I love and move while I doit.
And we talked again at noon andshe gotten through some of it
and she found some things thatwere upsetting, but she was
making progress.
And then by the end of the day.
When we had our last call, shehad cleaned out his desk and was
(19:38):
able to do this task that hadput off for 12 years.
I think you've, again, take theclient where they are, helped
her figure out a way to getthrough it.
We chatted in between when shefound books that he had written
notes in, and she didn't wannaget rid of that kind of stuff,
(19:59):
but, that was something shecould cherish.
Kathleen Mundy (20:01):
Joanne, I was gonna ask you if you could share
a story with us that, a clienthad a major breakthrough, but
that certainly is one.
There's no question.
Is there another one you mightbe able to share with our
audience?
Joanne Waldman (20:14):
yeah, I had a guy a while back who was
probably one of my youngerretirees.
He'd sold a business and didn'tneed to work, but he was working
for a friend and really hatingit.
and he wanted to figure out whatto do, and he was a really good
business person and he likeddoing what he called ethical
(20:37):
business deals, and he just feltlike it might be difficult for
him to take money for that.
So I helped him reframe,ethical, the ethical business
deals.
Not only was he helping himselfin this instance, but he was
really helping the other personas well.
(20:57):
And he was then able to moveforward making what he called
these ethical business deals andnot feeling guilty about what he
was doing because he hadreframed what it meant to do.
That.
it was a huge breakthrough forhim because he was really stuck
Yasmin Nguyen (21:17):
with the stories that you've shared so far, it's
very evident that, you areindeed a retirement catalyst.
the recipient of the award, butin many ways, you're activating,
these changes in people that,wouldn't have happened without
you being an integral part ofthat.
I'm curious, you in many wayshave played the role of the
(21:38):
coach of coaches, then you'vetrained so many, and from your
experience, what makes thedifference between a good coach
and a great coach?
what are some of the qualities,what are some of the ways in
which they practice theirprofession that, really makes
them outstanding?
Joanne Waldman (21:57):
I think the first place that we come, a
great coach comes from iscuriosity.
Always have to be curious.
I.
Second place.
It may sound weird, but I thinkthe second place we come from is
a place of love.
A good coach comes from a placeof love, that we don't set the
agenda, we don't tell them whatto do.
(22:19):
That a great coach, can shift,shift in terms of what they're
hearing or sensing.
I heard somebody recently coachand I thought he did a
masterclass in coaching.
He used some lovely analogies tohelp the client understand where
he wanted to take the client.
(22:40):
he checked in with the client,make sure that.
That they were okay.
he set the agreement, which Ifind a lot of coaches don't do
that.
So when the client started toveer from the agreement, he went
back and said, look, we've had afork in the road.
You said you wanna do this, nowyou're talking about this.
Go back and choose one today,we'll do one.
(23:03):
helping the client understand interms of.
Giving good feedback andunderstanding that feedback is
not opinion.
The feedback is just what wehear and what we notice.
and the good, I think the greatcoaches can dance in the moment
with the client can really moveand aren't stuck in one way of
(23:27):
doing something.
Yasmin Nguyen (23:28):
It also reminded me, Joanne, of a previous
conversation that we've had,which is around how, to ask
questions that may notnecessarily be leading, but
questions that help, reveal anddiscover.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Joanne Waldman (23:42):
Yeah.
Asking open-ended questions.
not the, have you, did you,could you, I.
More or not the, no, getting ridof the shoulds and all those
kinds of things.
learning how to ask open-endquestions is not easy.
I, sometimes when I'm coaching,I have to sit and think for a
minute.
'cause what's in my head is theclosed question and how do I
(24:07):
move that around and make it anopen question?
the other thing too, sometimes Ithink it's important to use
humor and coaching.
one of the favorite questions Iever came up with, the client
was upset about something andhaving to run a program and
being upset.
And I said, how can you beelegantly pissed?
(24:28):
and so it, it got a laugh, butit got them thinking about how
to get through the particularsituation they needed to get
through.
Kathleen Mundy (24:38):
as you were, describing how you do this, how
you do your coaching practice, Ihad a thought and it reminded me
some of the dialogue you wereusing reminded me of what a
shepherd must feel i.
Respond to its charges, And sogentle and encouraging but
staying on track, but beingflexible enough to move as the
(25:01):
situation demands and still stayfocused on that result and, I
think that's a, for me, that's areally lovely way to think of it
as opposed to, sometimes theperception is that it's going to
be difficult and it's going tomean I have to reveal things and
I'm not ready for all this yet,
Joanne Waldman (25:22):
Well, I mean, coaching is not easy.
It's not a straight line.
it goes like this and thejourney brings a lot of learning
for us as well as our clients.
if it was like this, it might bepretty boring.
I had to confront a retirementclient the other day, in a
(25:43):
gentle way.
I'm not, I didn't wanna be, inhis face.
But he's not doing his20-year-old a lot of good by,
not teaching him life skills.
Let's put it that way.
And I basically had to say, howis this helping again, it wasn't
harsh.
but it was something that neededto be put out there.
(26:06):
And again, you know, trying totake my opinion out of it, But,
and.
helping clients get out of theshoulds kind of things and
learning to choose to do things.
understanding also commitmentversus trying.
clients will use certainlanguage if they're committed
(26:28):
and other language when they'renot as committed.
And sometimes you can say, Ididn't hear your commitment when
you said you were trying to doX, Y, z.
That's feedback.
That's not opinion, that's notjudgment.
Yasmin Nguyen (26:40):
Joan, you've got so many great nuggets of wisdom
to share, and I believe on yourwebsite you have, a resource
that, that you give variousdifferent tips and advice.
And I'm curious, what are, someof the top tips that you found
most impactful, that, resonatewith people, especially those
who are preparing forretirement?
Joanne Waldman (27:00):
thinking about it, planning for it, and talking
about it.
I have a really good examplethat's happening right now.
And somebody's not my client,but they made this, and I, the
word keeps coming to my mind iswilly-nilly.
That's not the best word or wayto put it, but he made this
snap.
Decision to retire.
(27:23):
didn't think about it much.
Just said, I should retire.
I'm 72.
and when he told the people atwork that he was gonna retire,
they put out, a letter to hisclients and he thought, uhoh, I
didn't even tell my wife.
So I better tell her now beforeother people start telling her,
(27:48):
and if he had talked to otherpeople, I think what would've
happened would've helped to makea plan that he could have maybe
gone down to three days a weekjust to test this out.
put that big toe in the waterand see what retirement is two
days a week, rather than justsaying, I'm done and going and
not having a plan.
(28:11):
So, those I think are reallyimportant things to do.
Have a plan, talk to people, geta coach.
find somebody who can help youthink through this process.
I think that's really important.
also think about, your leisurelife.
some of the biggest problems areboredom.
What am I gonna do with all thistime?
(28:33):
figuring out what your meaningand purpose is, the, that one I
think is just huge for so manypeople.
So tho those were some of thetips on there.
do the gap analysis.
Here's where I am, here's whereI wanna be.
What do I have to do to get frompoint A to point B.
Yasmin Nguyen (28:50):
There's so much to consider on this journey and
something that's reallydifficult to do on our own.
And I think that's why your workand the way in which you've
trained many others as well too,to support people on this
journey is so important as, asis the financial piece of the
planning.
Kathleen Mundy (29:10):
What I hear is you're helping unravel all of
those uncertainties.
I think that's really importantIt's not a shift necessarily,
without caution, but it'sunraveling all of the
intricacies and we talk about aholistic approach to the
retirement journey, and so manypeople get stuck in the
(29:32):
financial aspect of it and don'tunderstand.
Or perhaps aren't aware of allof the complexities.
As you mentioned earlier, 90% oftheir time and attention and
focus was on career.
And without that, with all ofthose other elements within
their life, certainlyrelationships would be one.
(29:53):
If you don't tell your wife thatyou're thinking of this, there
might be a little bit of a gapthere.
So I think unraveling all ofthose uncertainties is
certainly, from what I've, I'mlistening to is certainly a
talent that you have and a, anamazing service that you're
offering your clients and thecompanies that you work with.
Joanne Waldman (30:11):
Thank you.
Yasmin Nguyen (30:12):
there's so much that we could discuss because
certainly the depth and thebreadth of this retirement
journey is quite vast.
and Joanne, we're so delightedand honored that you've taken
the time to share with us yourwisdom from many decades of
work.
And so we're so grateful forthat.
how can our listeners connectwith you?
About your work.
Joanne Waldman (30:32):
They can go to my website.
at new perspective coaching.com.
They can call me at(314)469-3288.
Those are probably the best waysto reach me.
They can also find me onLinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram.
Yasmin Nguyen (30:49):
Well, we'd be happy to share those links and
in, contact information in theshow notes that people can
connect with you directly as wewrap up this short and powerful
conversation, are there any lastwords or thoughts that you'd
like to share with our audience?
Joanne Waldman (31:06):
one of the things I like to say is that
change is hard, but change isbeautiful if we're able to work
through it and.
Open new doors or new avenues orreinvent ourself.
I like taking people on thereinvention tour.
Kathleen Mundy (31:24):
Hmm.
That's a nice way to put it.
I love that.
I love that.
And I also love the fact thatyou provide and think about
humor through the process.
I.
I think that's really a keyelement in having people
understand and diffuse theanxiety they might have.
So I really appreciate that youincorporate that.
Joanne Waldman (31:44):
My mentor taught me that humor is a healing gift.
Kathleen Mundy (31:48):
I think you're a amazing gift to all our
audience, and I'm sure thatthey're gonna find lots of
nuggets in this conversationthat we've had today.
And I really wanna tell you howmuch I've enjoyed it.
And it's always nice to hear andlearn new tips and tricks.
I'm proud to say that I had theadvantage of having a
conversation with you before,but certainly this is a little
(32:09):
deeper and I really appreciatewhat you've.
Explain to us today.
Joanne Waldman (32:15):
Thank you.
Appreciate both of you.
Yasmin Nguyen (32:18):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow and leave acomment or view on your favorite
platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out this show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(32:38):
thisepisode@realretirementshow.com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherreal retirement conversation.
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