April 21, 2025 • 40 mins
In this inspiring episode of The Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen sit down with Mike Drak—retired financial services professional turned author, public speaker, and Ironman-in-training at 70—to explore the non-financial dimensions of retirement. Mike shares his powerful journey from retirement shock to personal reinvention, revealing how he overcame fears, embraced purpose, and adopted the principles of a long, healthy, and fulfilling life. Together, they discuss the importance of physical vitality, meaningful relationships, and a growth mindset—and why financial advisors must expand their role beyond numbers to guide clients through life’s next chapter. Tune in to hear how Mike is breaking stereotypes and redefining what it means to truly thrive in retirement.
00:00 Discovering Your Purpose and Overcoming Fears
02:00 Welcome to The Real Retirement Show
02:43 Meet Mike Drak: Author and Retirement Expert
03:33 Mike's Ironman Challenge at 70
05:24 Redefining Retirement: The Retirement Rebel
08:12 The Concept of Watching Your Life Movie
09:59 Experiencing Retirement Shock
14:57 The Nine Principles for a Fulfilling Retirement
16:41 Longevity and Retirement: Bridging the Gap
18:12 Practical Steps to Extend Your Health Span
19:58 Inspiration from Clive: A Model for Active Aging
20:39 The Importance of Fun and Connection in Fitness
21:49 Balancing Purpose and Consistency in Life
23:08 Financial Mindset in Retirement
24:47 Navigating Finances with a Partner
26:38 The Role of Advisors in Holistic Retirement Planning
31:48 Personal Growth and Overcoming Fears
36:47 Resources for a Fulfilling Retirement
38:25 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
About Mike Drak
Mike is an author, public speaker and recognized authority on the non-financial aspects of retirement. After having spent 38-years in the financial services industry, Mike retired and personally faced what he called “retirement shock”. During this time, Mike found himself on a journey of self-discovery and authored three best-selling books on retirement; Victory Lap Retirement, Retirement Heaven or Hell: Which Will You Choose? and Longevity Lifestyle By Design. Mike is a Senior Contributor at Booming Encore and dedicates his time to helping other retirees design a fulfilling, meaningful retirement lifestyle for themselves.
Resources
Get both these books for free at https://boomingencore.com/
- Retirement Heaven or Hell: Which Will You Choose?
- Longevity Lifestyle by Design
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-drak-6b401095/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/retirement_rebel/
Real Retirement Video Podcast: Real Retirement - YouTube
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike Drak (00:00):
really believe that everyone has a purpose and
they've had it all their livesand they have certain skills.
That maybe they never had achance to develop and certain
interests and certain passions.
And what we wanna do is get'emback on that path and see where
it takes them.
And that's the exciting stuff.
(00:21):
And you see these peoplebecoming, you know, like me,
maybe a writer I never wrotebefore.
I had no idea.
But then I started experimentingwith and I went, wow, this is
kind of neat.
Right.
then the funniest thing is I hadthis terrible fear of public
speaking.
I had it for all my life and Inever thought I would be able to
(00:46):
do it.
And then after writing a book, Isaid, well, I gotta learn how to
public speak so I can go out andtalk about the book.
And I went and I conquered thatfear.
I couldn't believe it.
It would've been one of mybiggest regrets, that be
unresolved.
I actually went to Toastmasters,and I can't tell you how many
times I went there and sat inthe parking lot and bailed on
(01:08):
the meeting, and one time Isaid, you know what?
This is the last chance I gottago in there and I gotta conquer
this fear.
I'll never forget I walked inthe meeting and, I guess they
know you're new and you'rescared.
And so they come up and they tryto talk you down a little bit
and get a little calm.
I'll never forget, I told thelady, I said, do me a favor, and
she goes, yeah, sure what?
(01:30):
And I said, can you go lock thedoor?
Because at some point I'm gonna,I'm gonna make a break.
I'm gonna try to get outta here.
and she went over and locked thedoor and it was hard.
It was so hard.
You have no idea.
got through the night and I wentback the next night and got
through it again, and then Iwent back the next week and got
through it again and it got alittle bit easier, but it was
(01:53):
hard work.
But I avoided, one of my biggestregrets I would ever have is, my
fear of public speaking
Yasmin Nguyen (02:00):
Welcome back to The Real Retirement Show.
My name is Yasmin.
Here with my co-host Kathleen.
Whether you're retired orthinking about retirement, we
delve into the multifacetedworld of retirement beyond the
finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(02:20):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health,
to finding purpose, we tacklethe issues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(02:43):
Our special guest today is MikeDrak.
Mike is an author, publicspeaker, and recognized
authority on the non-financialaspects of retirement.
After having spent 38 years inthe financial services industry,
Mike retired and personallyfaced what he called retirement
shock.
During this time, Mike foundhimself on a journey of
(03:06):
self-discovery and authored twobestselling books on Retirement
victory Lap Retirement andRetirement Heaven or Hell, which
will you choose?
Mike is now a senior contributorat Booming Encore and dedicates
his time to help other retireesdesign a fulfilling, meaningful
retirement lifestyle forthemselves.
(03:27):
Please help me welcome Mike,Drak
Kathleen Mundy (03:30):
welcome, Mike.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:31):
so awesome to have you here.
Mike, I think in our lastconversation you talked about,
this challenge that you're onright now and you're doing an
Ironman challenge at the age of,what is it, 70?
Is that right?
Mike Drak (03:43):
Yes.
A young 70.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:45):
70.
So how's your journey going andwhat inspired you to take on
this challenge?
Mike Drak (03:50):
So far it's been brutal, to be honest, because
I'm starting from such a badposition.
I'm out of a shape.
I'm overweight, I'm slow.
kind of creaks when I walk.
But every day it's getting alittle bit better, which is
encouraging.
the reason I'm doing it isnumber one, I wanna give my
(04:12):
health back.
lose some weight.
I want to live the best qualityof life I can for as long as I
can, and I wanna serve as a goodretirement role model to other
retirees to say, Hey, lookwhat's possible if you really,
if you're really want it badenough and are willing to do to
work, there's so many things youcan do, not just Ironman, I mean
(04:33):
anything.
And so that's the purpose behindmy madness.
Yasmin Nguyen (04:38):
I don't know that it's madness.
Mike, it's really inspirationalbecause so many people at this
stage have these limitingbeliefs that, oh, I'm too old.
My body doesn't work.
But you're really, stepping intoa whole new place of
possibilities for people.
Mike Drak (04:53):
Yeah.
you have to be careful because,your beliefs about aging and
we've been sold this thing that.
Once you've reach a certain age,you know you're gonna be frail
and you gotta be careful oryou're gonna get hurt and you
should just play safe and sitback and watch the world go by
and that's not what you wanna dobecause that will make you grow
older faster you wanna stay awayfrom that.
(05:15):
You wanna remain vibrant, youwanna keep experiencing and
learning new things, and it isso important.
Yasmin Nguyen (05:23):
Yeah, it certainly is.
Hey, by the way, what does yourshirt say?
Mike Drak (05:26):
Oh, it says retirement rebel.
Yasmin Nguyen (05:28):
Retirement rebel.
Well, tell me a little bit moreof what that means and what does
it, for you, what doesretirement and rebel mean to be
one?
I.
Mike Drak (05:36):
you know what?
What I'm trying to express isthat we wanna throw away the old
retirement rule book.
where, traditional retirement,you're supposed to stop work at
a certain age and you'resupposed to take it easy and
maybe play pickleball orsomething like that.
And I'm saying, no, we don'twanna be like that.
This is our time now that wehave our freedom back.
(05:59):
wanna do all those things thatwe always dreamed about, the
things we're passionate about.
And, we wanna post about all theexciting things we're doing on
social media.
So our friends catch on and theycome and join the party.
So I'm always on the outlook forother retirement rebels.
And you can spot'em becausethey're the ones, they're full
of energy and they're having alot of fun.
(06:19):
They're exciting and they'redoing so many interesting things
and I just enjoy it so much andthose are the people I wanna
hang around.
So I wear the shirt, it drawsretirement rebels in, we have a
few laughs and we talk about ouradventures and we inspire each
other.
Kathleen Mundy (06:35):
Mike, I think I need your shirt.
You know, it's funny because, Ithink that retirement, when
you're talking about, the olderconcept about slowing down and
taking things easy, that perhapsis what our parents did.
that's not who we are.
And I love the fact that youtalked a little bit about, the
(06:57):
difference between heaven andhell in retirement.
And it really has to do with themindset and the, decisions to
move forward and not stay stuck.
get into a place that maybestretches you a little bit like
your Iron Man is doing, and giveyou a better understanding of
(07:17):
the capacity you have to acceptthese challenges and succeed in
them.
So I'm, that's why I said I, I'mthrilled with your concepts,
your ideology, the ethos of whatyou're doing, and I need your
shirt.
Mike Drak (07:31):
I'll get one out to you, but you have a good word
there.
Capacity, and another good wordis potential.
And we all have so much untappedpotential.
I.
us and we've lost touch withthat.
And what we wanna do is wakepeople up to that again and say,
okay, what are you reallypassionate about?
(07:52):
Because this is your time tochase after it, right?
Maybe it's a different type ofwork that you wanna do.
Maybe it's volunteering or beinga service to others, but we all
have it within us.
And so we're trying to helppeople dig it out and say, okay,
let's chase after it.
Now let's see what we can do andhow much fun we can have doing
it.
Kathleen Mundy (08:12):
Does this kind of fall into your concept?
I love this, watching Your Lifemovie.
In fact, my husband's alwayssaying, talking about game
field.
So he looks at what's happenedand then decides what should
happen in the future.
And that kind of reminds me ofsomething that you are talking
about and you're wanting to makesure that last scene in your
film is the best scene that youcan make.
Mike Drak (08:34):
Exactly, because you know, what I did was when I
wrote that section in thechapter was I look back at my
life.
And I said, am I really happywith what I've accomplished to
date, what I've been through?
and I really wasn't because Iwas thinking, oh, I'm working in
a corporate world.
I'm working for a big bank.
Really, there's not a lot ofautonomy.
(08:55):
I took orders and I did whatthey wanted and I was very good
at it, but I wasn't happy doingit.
And things changed over time.
And then I said, I gotta getaway from this.
So I said, okay.
I paid my dues.
I went through that part of themovie, now it's me.
I'm the producer now.
I'm gonna make a happy endingfor myself and hopefully it's a
(09:17):
long, happy ending.
That's what I'm working on.
yeah, I think about it all thetime.
And another thing I think aboutis my future self, what gonna
look like and what I'm gonna bedoing in 10 years.
When I turn 80.
I think about it every day and Isay, okay.
What do I wanna be doing whenI'm 80?
(09:38):
Why, I put those things in placenow to help me get there?
and one of'em is my health.
I wanna be really healthy whenI'm 80.
'cause I wanna keep doing thethings I love to do, but I need
to start working on it now orit's not gonna happen.
So yeah, that's what I thinkabout'em.
Yasmin Nguyen (09:53):
Speaking of movies, Mike, you know in many
movies you start with the movieand then you've got the sequel,
and then you've got the prequelas well.
And I'm curious if we rewoundthe clock back to this journey
that you started where youexperienced retirement shock.
Can you help us understand whatwas the experience that you were
going through and what is thisretirement shock?
Mike Drak (10:14):
It was brutal at the time, believe me.
it was almost like a trapbecause one point when I, I was
59.
And I decided, okay, I don'twanna work here anymore.
In the bank.
I was getting stressed out.
I didn't like, some of thethings the bank was doing at the
time, office politics and allthat stuff.
It was just like it got to me Isaid, yeah, I gotta get outta
(10:38):
here.
So I was starting to tell peopleI, I'm planning on leaving.
People were shocked because wewere part of a defined pension,
plan.
You're not supposed to do thosethings like career.
to my surprise, one day someonecalled me into a surprise
meeting where they gave me thepackage.
Kathleen Mundy (10:57):
There you go.
Mike Drak (10:59):
I remember sitting there, it was the funniest
thing, and they had someonesitting beside me.
I guess they wanna make sure Ididn't jump out of a window and
my boss was sitting across fromme, he said, are you okay?
And I looked at him, I went, howam I gonna play this?
I went, oh, you know what?
I'm feeling a little dizzy.
(11:19):
This is a shock, And he says,maybe you should take the rest
of the day off.
I said, oh, thank you very much.
Yeah, it's, it's a big changefor me.
Thank you for understanding.
I got into the car, I phoned mywife and I said, Hey, contest,
we hit the jackpot because I wasgonna leave anyways, and instead
(11:42):
of walking away with nothing, Ihad their sever check.
That opened everything up for meand I said, wow, this is gonna
be great.
And I got home and for the firstweek everything was wonderful.
I didn't have to get up andcommute and I didn't have to,
report to certain people and doall these things.
(12:02):
And, at the end of the firstweek, the following Monday, I'll
never forget what happened.
I was sitting there on the couchtrying to find something
interesting to watch on tv.
I had one of these fancy smartTVs.
I got 500 stations.
I couldn't find anything towatch.
That was interesting.
And I started feeling reallymiserable and I was all by
(12:22):
myself'cause my wife was stillworking.
My friends were still workingand I'm just sitting there being
miserable and I go, there'ssomething wrong.
Because I got this money, I havemore than enough.
I don't have to worry about,making any more money, but I'm
miserable and I don't feel likedoing anything.
And what really bothered me,irritated me was no one could
(12:44):
understand what I was goingthrough.
My wife couldn't understand, myfriends couldn't understand
because everyone automaticallyassumed, how can Mike be unhappy
because he doesn't have to workanymore?
The truth is Mike was unhappy'cause he wasn't working
anymore.
He wasn't involved in things hewasn't doing interesting things
(13:05):
and dealing with people andsolving problems.
I love solving problems.
And I was doing nothing.
I was just sitting there like avegetable and that's when I
started sliding into retirement.
He and I spent, a year theretrying to figure things out and
that really bothered me andconcerned me because.
I saw that happen to my fatherand it cost him about a year
(13:25):
too, and I had a good friend diefrom it, he ended up drinking
himself, to death because he wasbored and he was lonely.
I.
And I said, no, this is bad andI gotta deal with it.
I went out and I got my hands onevery retirement book I can
looking for answers.
But I was frustrated againbecause all they did was the
money aspect of retirement.
(13:46):
No one talked about thepsychological side or the
challenges we'd be facing andwhat to do about it.
And so that's what led to thewriting of the books really is,
my personal journals.
Trying to figure differentthings out as I went through it.
And luckily I came up the otherside and, I found the solutions
I needed and life's never beenbetter.
(14:08):
But it took me a while to getthere and, my goal now these
days is I don't want people towaste a lot of time and go
through the stress and anxietythat I went through.
I'm saying, okay, let's Prep youbefore you actually retire, so
you're prepared for these thingsand you can jump into or use
retirement as a stepping stoneto a better life, and then try
(14:32):
to figure out what that lifewill look like.
Kathleen Mundy (14:36):
Well, it sounds as though you mirrored that with
your personal journey, which isI think, the best way to tell a
story and have people understandwhat they can face and how to
avoid it.
you also developed nineprinciples.
Have I got that correct in
Mike Drak (14:49):
Yes.
Kathleen Mundy (14:50):
overcome?
Can you share that with ustoday?
I think that our listeners wouldreally be interested in knowing
what those principles were
Mike Drak (14:57):
I call them in the book, retirement Principles.
But really now I've shifted itand I'm calling them Longevity
Principles because followingthese principles will lead to a
long and healthy life.
And these are principles Ifollow every day.
And really they're longevitydrivers.
what will make me happy and whatwill lead to a health healthy
(15:20):
life.
one of the principles isrelationships.
It's so important, they've doneso much research on this, that
you have to make sure thatyou're engaged and around people
and you either friends or familyor your neighbors or.
I always like to tell people,find a tribe to join, or
multiple tribes.
I belong to a swim tribe.
(15:41):
I belong to, a riding tribe.
it is so nice to interact withother people and there are
different age ranges too.
The young people, old people.
And, we feed off each other.
We feed off our energy.
we have fun and they encourageme to follow my goals and I
encourage them.
And, we mentor each other too.
You know, we talk about allthese different things.
(16:02):
So, that's such an importantdriver and that's just one of
them.
Another one is making sure wehave a positive attitude, right?
there's all kinds of researchdone.
The famous NUN study saying thathappy nuns outlive unhappy nuns.
And it holds true for everyoneis, if you have a positive
attitude, if you look at agingas a positive thing, guess what?
(16:26):
You're gonna live up to maybeseven and a half years longer
than the average, retiree.
And then we could go down thelist.
There's so many, more of'em.
but they're all longevitydrivers.
And there's things, I practiceevery day.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:39):
Mike, now you mentioned the word longevity.
what is your perception on thedifference or the intersection
between longevity andretirement?
I.
Mike Drak (16:47):
I take retirement right outta the equation, right?
My focus on longevity is,there's two things I look at.
There's health span that periodof time where I'm gonna be
healthy enough to do the things,I wanna do in lifespan, and
there's a gap between'em.
And I think the average gapright now.
Is about 11 years for retireesin Canada.
(17:10):
So maybe they're, and don'tquote me on the numbers but say,
the average retiree is healthyup to the age of 65, but then
they're gonna develop, a healthproblem.
Maybe it's gonna be arthritis,high blood pressure, or whatnot,
and it's going to impact thequality of their remaining life.
We're saying, it doesn't have tobe that way.
(17:30):
If you follow the longevitydrivers, our goal is to decrease
that, that gap, let's call itsix span.
We're going to decrease that sixspan as much as we can.
Best case scenario, I like to gofishing one day, a dinner with
my wife, and not wake up thenext morning.
(17:52):
That would be the perfect exitfor me.
And is, it is all about pushingour best before date as far back
as possible so we can enjoy realquality, years and quality
lifestyle.
But you know, it takes some workand attention.
Yasmin Nguyen (18:06):
Mike, now you talked about pushing back your
best before date.
how do people start doing thatin their own lives?
Mike Drak (18:12):
it gets back to the longevity drivers.
So we're looking at those andwe're saying, okay, here are
areas we need to focus on.
And one of them is just generalhealth.
Like a lot of people they.
Approach retirement.
Their health declines becausethey're busy at work and they're
getting a little slow, sothey're gaining weight and, bad
(18:33):
things start to creep in.
And we're saying, okay, let'snip this in the bud.
Let's turn this thing around.
And one of the most importantthings is doing weight training,
getting to the gym, doing weighttraining on a regular basis,
because that will keep you.
in,
Yasmin Nguyen (18:51):
Yes.
Mike Drak (18:51):
health.
And another thing we do is,aerobic, exercise and then we do
a VO two max exercises.
These are all proven to extendlongevity, increase our health
span.
so we're looking at that.
We're looking at the quality offood we eat.
we wanna eat, healthy foods, wewanna stay away from the bad
(19:12):
stuff.
A lot of those snacks and potatochip, I found the potato chips
and chicken wings.
you, you can still enjoy'em, butit's all in moderation.
So we're changing our diets,right?
And then we're hitting some ofthe other drivers and yeah,
we'll get there.
and like I said, the goal is topush that back as, as far as
possible.
(19:33):
When I was on my cruise, I metthis interesting retirement
rebel by the name of Clive.
He's 84 years old.
I wouldn't have known that andwe're in spinning class.
This guy's going hard.
He's jumping out of the saddle.
I couldn't believe it.
And then when they had the, highspeed spinning, he was pushing
(19:55):
the pedals, he was doing 150RPM.
I couldn't get up over 120.
And I'm looking at this guy, Isaid, Clive, when I'm your age,
I wanna be just like you.
But it is, it showed me thatit's possible.
have to work at it.
And Clive is, he was in spendingclass every day, just like me.
(20:15):
And he was in the gym everyafternoon.
He's 84, but he doesn't look atit, he doesn't act it because he
works at it.
That's the payoff.
And I, again, with my futureself, when I looked there and I
said, I wanna look like Clive.
I wanna act like Clive.
I wanna have Clive's lifestylebecause he spends a lot of time
traveling world on cruises andwhatnot.
And he's having a great time.
(20:36):
And I'm saying, wow, that's thekind of lifestyle I wouldn't
enjoy.
Yasmin Nguyen (20:39):
Wow.
I'm curious, when you talkedwith Clive, did you notice any,
anything unique about hismindset, because of course he's
taking action, but what is itthat's driving him to take
action?
I.
Mike Drak (20:51):
one, it's very youthful.
Number two, he put the fun backin the working out for me.
So we're riding side by side.
It's really hard, but we'relaughing about it.
It is like we're kids Again,it's the attitude.
It's just Clive was trying tobreak me, but he was having fun
doing it and I'm trying to hangon for dear life.
(21:11):
I don't want him to break me,and we're laughing about it, so
it gave me a new goal to worktowards.
And we feed off each other'senergy and then we start talking
about, Hey Clive, what else areyou doing?
Well, I got a part-time job.
This is what I said, you got apart-time job.
84.
He goes, yeah, I'm not gonnaretire.
Why won't I retire from doingsomething I love?
You can't argue with that.
(21:32):
And I go, that's a greatattitude to have.
he kept working at it.
Again, addressing theselongevity drivers and that's why
he's as happy he is and doingall the fun things he's doing,
and there's a lot of Clives outthere.
It'd be surprised, I meet himall the time.
Yasmin Nguyen (21:49):
You mentioned how important it is to have fun and
stay connected, but do you thinkyou'd still be fulfilled if you
didn't have something to worktowards, like a goal or even a
part-time gig that gave you thatsense of purpose?
Mike Drak (22:02):
No, you wouldn't be.
And and that's one thing myIronman training has taught me
too, is you have to be veryconsistent.
You have to be disciplined, andyou can't just say, oh, I'm
tired today.
I'll do it tomorrow becauseyou'll never get there.
I.
So you have to come up with yourown strategy that will work for
you, and you have to apply itevery day.
(22:24):
You have to be consistent.
And if you do that, yeah, goodthings happen.
Like you can improve your healtha little bit every day, you
gotta get to the gym to do itright, or you gotta go outside
and get those walks in.
Right?
But you know, the smart peoplecombine things too.
I need to socialize with peoplebecause that's a happiness
(22:46):
booster for me.
So why not go out for a walkwith a bunch of people?
Why not go to the gym with a fewfriends and have a few laughs as
we're working out?
You gotta make it fun, but yougotta have a purpose behind it
too, because that's what drivesit.
And purpose is one of the bestones.
live a long, healthy life.
Who doesn't want that?
Yasmin Nguyen (23:08):
It sounds like you've really found a rhythm
that brings you purpose and joy,but I wonder how does this
mindset show up when it comes toyour finances?
For example, is it easy for youto spend money you've worked so
hard to save?
Or do you find yourself holdingback even in retirement?
Mike Drak (23:24):
that's a complicated question because I'll tell you,
I have a problem.
have a hard time spending money.
I have a hard time spending downmy retirement assets, and I
don't know why that is.
I think probably part of it is'cause I spent so long trying to
save money and gain financialindependence.
(23:45):
And there's so many crazy thingshappening in the world, like
this tariff thing, and you justdon't know what's gonna come
down next.
And we saw what happened, wheninflation kicked up and things
like that.
I don't wanna lose sleep atnight.
So I thought, okay, What can Ido?
To make life easier and reducemy stress levels.
(24:07):
And the conclusion is to stillgenerate some level of active
income.
To me that made sense.
But I don't wanna workfull-time.
work part-time.
But the key is I'll only do workthat I love to do.
that's my standard and I hold tothat and now I'm there.
(24:28):
I do talks, I sell books and dosome other things.
I generate this fun money, whichis my cushion, and I don't have
any problem spending that moneyat all.
And then for the rest of it, letmy wife worry about it.
Yasmin Nguyen (24:47):
I'm curious, how do you and your wife navigate
the financial side of things?
Has your approach changed orhave you shifted more of that
responsibility to her?
Mike Drak (24:58):
Well, my wife's a financial advisor.
Before a couple years back, formany years I did my own
investing, own, saving myself.
It was like a hobby of mine.
I'd watch BNN all the time andtry to find out, where the
market was heading, pick up someinformation and whatnot.
But I finally got tired.
(25:19):
I got bored of it really.
I said, I don't wanna do thisanymore.
And I pushed it off to her and Isaid, I'm just gonna focus on
generating some additionalincome and having fun.
I.
That's what I'm doing.
And it is not to watch BNN allthe time, not to check your
phone to see what the stockprices are every five minutes.
(25:42):
it's nice not to be, not to dothat anymore.
So it's, yeah, taking a lot ofheat off.
Yasmin Nguyen (25:47):
Mike, has your relationship with your wife
shifted as you've stepped intothis chapter retirement, and
perhaps she's still in themiddle of her career?
I.
Mike Drak (25:57):
Yeah, we have some interesting discussions because
sometimes I feel she doesn'tview my work as real work.
Because she has to go out in thecar and drive to work and has to
sit in an office and do allthis.
I just walk upstairs.
I'm in my office and I dowhatever I feel like doing.
So I have a lot more freedom andflexibility.
(26:20):
Maybe she takes her work moreseriously than I do.
I just have fun doing it, and Ionly deal with people that I
wanna deal with.
yeah, it's still work, but it'sa different kind of work if you
pick up what I'm trying to say.
Prefer my kind of work muchmore.
Yasmin Nguyen (26:37):
Yeah.
speaking of work, you were inthe banking and financial
services world for quite a whileand I'm curious, based on your
experience, what role shouldadvisors be playing in guiding
their clients through thesetypes of transitions?
Mike Drak (26:52):
Well, this is one of my pet peeves right now after
having gone through andexperienced what I did.
I think it's very important foran advisor to step up to the
plate and use a more holisticapproach with respect to
retirement planning.
So when we talk retirementplanning, it's not just numbers,
(27:13):
about lifestyle design, it'sabout preparing your customers.
For the non-financial challengesthey're gonna be facing and
helping them come up with anappropriate lifestyle plan that
will work for them the rest ofthe years they're gonna enjoy in
the future.
(27:33):
that takes time, but they're theones in the best position to do
it right.
it is so important because weknow one in three retirees are
gonna suffer from retirementshock, and it doesn't have to
happen.
they need someone to educatethem and help prepare them and
to hold their hand as theytransition through, because a
(27:54):
lot of people will struggle withit and it can be very difficult.
Right now, the pushback is, Iknow some of the advisors say,
why should I do it?
I'm not gonna make any moremoney doing it.
And I'm saying listen, if you'rea trusted advisor.
have an obligation to help yourclients because it's gonna be a
tough patch for some of them toget through.
(28:16):
And yeah, if you wanna be thetrusted advisor, you gotta step
off the plate and help'em,right?
And it doesn't take a lot oftime to do it, but just give'em
the information and have thesediscussions and when you have a
quarterly meeting, okay.
a little bit about the money andthe returns and things like
(28:37):
that, but then let's get into,okay, what are your plans for
the future?
What do you see yourself doing?
What sources of new purpose areyou gonna have?
Are you gonna get healthy again?
Do you need to get healthyagain?
What's your plan for doing thatand having these meaningful
conversations and the advisorsthat are doing it are having a
lot of fun with it.
(28:59):
Because, instead of just talkingabout money, which gets boring
really fast, we're talking aboutlife and what's your vision for
your future?
And that's where it getsinteresting.
I just love doing it withpeople.
Yasmin Nguyen (29:12):
That's such a powerful perspective, Mike, and
I imagine when advisors takethat extra step to have those
deeper conversations, it changeseverything, not just the client,
but the advisor too.
do you think that's what reallybuilds trust and long-term
relationships?
Mike Drak (29:29):
sure.
Because you're showing to yourclients, you care about them,
you care about their futures,right?
And it allows you todifferentiate yourself from
other advisors that just want totalk about money.
a trusted advisor is your go-toperson, right?
I got an issue, I'm scared aboutthis.
we talk about it?
And you're looking for theirexpertise and you're looking to
(29:53):
use them as a sounding board tosay, Hey.
I'm thinking of doing this, whatdo you think?
And I want your input.
that's why it's important thatthey get that input.
So the smart advisors arestarting to go there, but it's
slow because it's hard to getthe banks to buy in.
I.
Because they're looking at themoney side, right?
And they're looking at, whatkind of return they can earn.
(30:15):
And they're saying, do we reallyneed to provide that?
Because it's going to eat upsome hours with an advisor,
right?
And some advisors don't wanna doit, or they're uncomfortable
with doing it.
and so that's what we have todeal with right now.
And then I noticed like theindustry in itself, if you look
at it,'cause of thedemographics, With the advisors.
You got a lot of older advisorsand they're saying, my book's
(30:40):
big enough.
I don't need to do this, and Idon't feel like doing it.
And then, we're looking at,okay, we can't change down, but
we can get to the youngeradvisors that are going to be
taking their place and say,okay.
This is the thing that you gotto start thinking about and
providing to your clients andthey'll buy.
I'm sure it'll buy into it'causeit only makes sense, but that
(31:03):
change is gonna take some time.
Yasmin Nguyen (31:04):
Absolutely.
And as we look at change, we'renot only looking at the change
in advisors, but also thedemographics of the clients.
the younger generations are moreastute and they make decisions
based on relationships andstewardships and all of these
other considerations beyond justthe services.
Mike Drak (31:23):
That's right.
And it's gonna go there becauseit has to, but it is just, it is
taken a little bit longer thanI'd like to see.
Yasmin Nguyen (31:31):
Yeah, you're making an impact doing it with
both, your speaking, but Al andalso your books as well.
it seems to chronicle your ownpersonal journey and taking us
along the ride there.
And I'm curious, what's next foryou?
What's the next book?
What's the next journey beyondyour, iron Man?
A challenge?
Mike Drak (31:48):
Well, there's two big dreams I have.
the first dream is I'm going toprobably partner up with my wife
after Ironman, I'm going to, Iwanna be a role model for
advisors and I'm going toprovide retirement guidance for
her clients.
And so she'll talk about themoney side of her partner and
(32:11):
all that, and.
I'll come in time of need tosay, okay, I'm gonna talk about
planning, non-traditionalretirement planning, and here's
my books.
The your homework is to read thebooks, and then we'll sit down
and we'll have these meaningful,deep conversations about what
your plans are and what I thinkyou need to focus on, and we'll
(32:36):
work together to create thislifestyle plan.
it, it takes time.
'cause I wanna get to thesepeople before they jump into
retirement.
I, and the planning processreally is probably gonna take a
couple years.
And what I'm really excitedabout is dealing with people.
I dub late bloomers, the onesthat reach financial
(32:57):
independence maybe in theirfifties.
Instead of saying, oh, I justwanna retire.
I wanna use it as stepping stoneto something better.
I want to go do something I,I've always dreamed about and
whatever that is, and let'sfigure out how we can get there
and prep them and help'em.
then one day they'll come to meand say, guess what?
(33:19):
Tomorrow I'm making a jump.
gonna become whatever.
And that's the exciting part.
You know, people are startingthese home-based businesses and
whatnot.
They have these dreams andthey're saying, I wanna get
outta this corporate job'causeI'm burned out, but I'm not
gonna stop.
I'm gonna do this.
It's a sound plan and I'm gonnacontinue on for as long as I
(33:41):
want.
think to me, that makes perfectsense.
Yasmin Nguyen (33:45):
Did you ever have a moment where you found
something new that totallysurprised you?
I.
Mike Drak (33:50):
yeah, it's so important.
so you're coming up with newideas and it is so exciting to
see that.
and that's why I love dealingwith these late bloomers because
really believe that everyone hasa purpose and they've had it all
their lives and they havecertain skills.
That maybe they never had achance to develop and certain
(34:12):
interests and certain passions.
And what we wanna do is get'emback on that path and see where
it takes them.
And that's the exciting stuff.
And you see these peoplebecoming, like me, maybe a
writer I never wrote before.
I had no idea.
But then I started experimentingwith and I went, wow, this is
(34:33):
neat.
then the funniest thing is I hadthis terrible fear of public
speaking.
I had it for all my life and Inever thought I would be able to
do it.
And then after writing a book, Isaid, I gotta learn how to
public speak so I can go out andtalk about the book And I went
and I conquered that fear.
(34:53):
I couldn't believe it.
It would've been one of mybiggest regrets, that be
unresolved.
I actually went to Toastmasters,and I can't tell you how many
times I went there and sat inthe parking lot and bailed on
the meeting, and one time Isaid, you know what?
This is the last chance I gottago in there and I gotta conquer
(35:14):
this fear.
I'll never forget I walked inthe meeting and, I guess they
know you're new and you'rescared.
And so they come up and they tryto talk you down a little bit
and get a little calm.
I'll never forget, I told thelady, I said, do me a favor, and
she goes, yeah, sure what?
And I said, can you go lock thedoor?
Because at some point I'm gonna,I'm gonna make a break.
I'm gonna try to get outta here.
(35:36):
and she went over and locked thedoor and it was hard.
It was so hard.
You have no idea.
got through the night and I wentback the next night and got
through it again, and then Iwent back the next week and got
through it again and it got alittle bit easier, but it was
hard work.
But I avoided, one of my biggestregrets I would ever have is, my
(35:59):
fear of public speaking Andpeople all have these fears and
we're saying, okay, let's dealwith it.
Let's get it behind us and let'smove on to new things.
And these are people that aregrowers, they have a grower's
that don't wanna stop.
They wanna keep learning newthings, they wanna keep
experimenting with new thingsand come up with new ideas.
(36:20):
And, those are the people I lovedealing with.
Yasmin Nguyen (36:22):
Mike, that's so inspirational.
as, you're literally modelingthe.
Retirement rebel, and you'redoing it through your growth
mindset.
That's one of the things weexplore is the growth versus
fixed mindset and the growth iswhere it opens up all these
possibilities.
thank you for sharing that withus.
for our listeners, who wannalearn more, who wanna become a
retirement rebel, who wannaaccess your resources and books,
(36:45):
where can they find you?
Mike Drak (36:47):
Okay, the good news is that you can go to booming
encore.com and you can download,two of my books.
You can download RetirementHeaven or Hell, which is my
favorite book.
And there's also another book,longevity Lifestyle by Design
that will teach you aboutretirement shock and how you can
(37:07):
avoid it.
And also tell you about how tostart working on your future
retirement lifestyle design, theone that you want to retire into
and keep growing and doing allkinds of, great things.
So those books are there, thereason I gave'em for, I've
decided to give'em away for freeis I just wanna help people.
(37:28):
don't want'em to go through whatI went through.
I want'em to have great.
Lifes, and so that's why they'rethere.
place you can find me is onLinkedIn, so you can, I'm always
coming up with posts ondifferent, subjects relating to
retirement and longevity.
And then if you wanna reallyhave fun, can follow my inst
(37:51):
Instagram account, follow MyRetirement, or let's call it
Ironman Journey.
So you can find me at retirementRebel.
And, yeah, it's, that's gonna bevery interesting because I don't
know how it's gonna turn out,but I'm gonna give it a real
good shot and worst case, I'mgonna get my health back
(38:12):
anyways.
But, I'm gonna learn a lot.
I'm gonna talk about it, andalso share some retirement
thoughts as I go through it.
But yeah, it's gonna beinteresting.
Yasmin Nguyen (38:21):
Excellent.
We'll include all those in theshow notes so people can easily
find you.
as we wrap up with ourconversation I love that you're
not just offering tools, butencouraging people to check in
with themselves regularly.
It's so easy to drift offcourse.
Do you recommend any kind ofprocess or rhythm to help people
stay aligned over time?
I.
Mike Drak (38:40):
No, that's a very important point because what I
recommend in the book is doingan annual review and looking at
all these longevity drivers.
sure that you're not, youforgetting about some of'em, or
to make sure you're puttingenough emphasis on certain areas
if they're lacking, because likeyou say, they feed off each
(39:02):
other, they balance each otherout, and you need them all
working together and it's easyto lose sight of it.
So you want, you wanna keepchecking that you wanna keep
working on them and you wanna befocused on that future self.
say, here's what I wanna be in10 years, what I wanna look like
and here's what I wanna bedoing.
(39:24):
keep going out, keep going.
It's like a rolling budget.
Keep going out, keep changingthings, but have a goal to work
towards.
Right.
Yasmin Nguyen (39:32):
Yeah.
Wow.
That's such a great reminder,Mike, to keep checking in with
yourself and evolving withintention.
I just wanna say your passion iscontagious, and I know so many
people who are going to benefitfrom your work.
Thank you so much for everythingthat you're doing.
Mike Drak (39:47):
it's been a lot of fun.
It's a pleasure.
I like talking to people thatget it and I love the work
you're doing and between us,we're gonna help a lot of people
Yasmin Nguyen (39:58):
Yeah.
Mike Drak (39:58):
What it's all about at the end of the day.
just having a lot of fun doingit too.
Yasmin Nguyen (40:03):
Thank you so much, Mike.
What a joy to have you, andwe've learned so much and so
appreciate you being a part ofthis conversation with.
Mike Drak (40:11):
My pleasure.
Yasmin Nguyen (40:12):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow and leave acomment or view on your favorite
platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out this show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(40:33):
thisepisode@realretirementshow.com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherreal retirement conversation.
really believe that everyone has a purpose and
they've had it all their livesand they have certain skills.
That maybe they never had achance to develop and certain
interests and certain passions.
And what we wanna do is get'emback on that path and see where
it takes them.
And that's the exciting stuff.
(00:21):
And you see these peoplebecoming, you know, like me,
maybe a writer I never wrotebefore.
I had no idea.
But then I started experimentingwith and I went, wow, this is
kind of neat.
Right.
then the funniest thing is I hadthis terrible fear of public
speaking.
I had it for all my life and Inever thought I would be able to
(00:46):
do it.
And then after writing a book, Isaid, well, I gotta learn how to
public speak so I can go out andtalk about the book.
And I went and I conquered thatfear.
I couldn't believe it.
It would've been one of mybiggest regrets, that be
unresolved.
I actually went to Toastmasters,and I can't tell you how many
times I went there and sat inthe parking lot and bailed on
(01:08):
the meeting, and one time Isaid, you know what?
This is the last chance I gottago in there and I gotta conquer
this fear.
I'll never forget I walked inthe meeting and, I guess they
know you're new and you'rescared.
And so they come up and they tryto talk you down a little bit
and get a little calm.
I'll never forget, I told thelady, I said, do me a favor, and
she goes, yeah, sure what?
(01:30):
And I said, can you go lock thedoor?
Because at some point I'm gonna,I'm gonna make a break.
I'm gonna try to get outta here.
and she went over and locked thedoor and it was hard.
It was so hard.
You have no idea.
got through the night and I wentback the next night and got
through it again, and then Iwent back the next week and got
through it again and it got alittle bit easier, but it was
(01:53):
hard work.
But I avoided, one of my biggestregrets I would ever have is, my
fear of public speaking
Yasmin Nguyen (02:00):
Welcome back to The Real Retirement Show.
My name is Yasmin.
Here with my co-host Kathleen.
Whether you're retired orthinking about retirement, we
delve into the multifacetedworld of retirement beyond the
finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(02:20):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health,
to finding purpose, we tacklethe issues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(02:43):
Our special guest today is MikeDrak.
Mike is an author, publicspeaker, and recognized
authority on the non-financialaspects of retirement.
After having spent 38 years inthe financial services industry,
Mike retired and personallyfaced what he called retirement
shock.
During this time, Mike foundhimself on a journey of
(03:06):
self-discovery and authored twobestselling books on Retirement
victory Lap Retirement andRetirement Heaven or Hell, which
will you choose?
Mike is now a senior contributorat Booming Encore and dedicates
his time to help other retireesdesign a fulfilling, meaningful
retirement lifestyle forthemselves.
(03:27):
Please help me welcome Mike,Drak
Kathleen Mundy (03:30):
welcome, Mike.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:31):
so awesome to have you here.
Mike, I think in our lastconversation you talked about,
this challenge that you're onright now and you're doing an
Ironman challenge at the age of,what is it, 70?
Is that right?
Mike Drak (03:43):
Yes.
A young 70.
Yasmin Nguyen (03:45):
70.
So how's your journey going andwhat inspired you to take on
this challenge?
Mike Drak (03:50):
So far it's been brutal, to be honest, because
I'm starting from such a badposition.
I'm out of a shape.
I'm overweight, I'm slow.
kind of creaks when I walk.
But every day it's getting alittle bit better, which is
encouraging.
the reason I'm doing it isnumber one, I wanna give my
(04:12):
health back.
lose some weight.
I want to live the best qualityof life I can for as long as I
can, and I wanna serve as a goodretirement role model to other
retirees to say, Hey, lookwhat's possible if you really,
if you're really want it badenough and are willing to do to
work, there's so many things youcan do, not just Ironman, I mean
(04:33):
anything.
And so that's the purpose behindmy madness.
Yasmin Nguyen (04:38):
I don't know that it's madness.
Mike, it's really inspirationalbecause so many people at this
stage have these limitingbeliefs that, oh, I'm too old.
My body doesn't work.
But you're really, stepping intoa whole new place of
possibilities for people.
Mike Drak (04:53):
Yeah.
you have to be careful because,your beliefs about aging and
we've been sold this thing that.
Once you've reach a certain age,you know you're gonna be frail
and you gotta be careful oryou're gonna get hurt and you
should just play safe and sitback and watch the world go by
and that's not what you wanna dobecause that will make you grow
older faster you wanna stay awayfrom that.
(05:15):
You wanna remain vibrant, youwanna keep experiencing and
learning new things, and it isso important.
Yasmin Nguyen (05:23):
Yeah, it certainly is.
Hey, by the way, what does yourshirt say?
Mike Drak (05:26):
Oh, it says retirement rebel.
Yasmin Nguyen (05:28):
Retirement rebel.
Well, tell me a little bit moreof what that means and what does
it, for you, what doesretirement and rebel mean to be
one?
I.
Mike Drak (05:36):
you know what?
What I'm trying to express isthat we wanna throw away the old
retirement rule book.
where, traditional retirement,you're supposed to stop work at
a certain age and you'resupposed to take it easy and
maybe play pickleball orsomething like that.
And I'm saying, no, we don'twanna be like that.
This is our time now that wehave our freedom back.
(05:59):
wanna do all those things thatwe always dreamed about, the
things we're passionate about.
And, we wanna post about all theexciting things we're doing on
social media.
So our friends catch on and theycome and join the party.
So I'm always on the outlook forother retirement rebels.
And you can spot'em becausethey're the ones, they're full
of energy and they're having alot of fun.
(06:19):
They're exciting and they'redoing so many interesting things
and I just enjoy it so much andthose are the people I wanna
hang around.
So I wear the shirt, it drawsretirement rebels in, we have a
few laughs and we talk about ouradventures and we inspire each
other.
Kathleen Mundy (06:35):
Mike, I think I need your shirt.
You know, it's funny because, Ithink that retirement, when
you're talking about, the olderconcept about slowing down and
taking things easy, that perhapsis what our parents did.
that's not who we are.
And I love the fact that youtalked a little bit about, the
(06:57):
difference between heaven andhell in retirement.
And it really has to do with themindset and the, decisions to
move forward and not stay stuck.
get into a place that maybestretches you a little bit like
your Iron Man is doing, and giveyou a better understanding of
(07:17):
the capacity you have to acceptthese challenges and succeed in
them.
So I'm, that's why I said I, I'mthrilled with your concepts,
your ideology, the ethos of whatyou're doing, and I need your
shirt.
Mike Drak (07:31):
I'll get one out to you, but you have a good word
there.
Capacity, and another good wordis potential.
And we all have so much untappedpotential.
I.
us and we've lost touch withthat.
And what we wanna do is wakepeople up to that again and say,
okay, what are you reallypassionate about?
(07:52):
Because this is your time tochase after it, right?
Maybe it's a different type ofwork that you wanna do.
Maybe it's volunteering or beinga service to others, but we all
have it within us.
And so we're trying to helppeople dig it out and say, okay,
let's chase after it.
Now let's see what we can do andhow much fun we can have doing
it.
Kathleen Mundy (08:12):
Does this kind of fall into your concept?
I love this, watching Your Lifemovie.
In fact, my husband's alwayssaying, talking about game
field.
So he looks at what's happenedand then decides what should
happen in the future.
And that kind of reminds me ofsomething that you are talking
about and you're wanting to makesure that last scene in your
film is the best scene that youcan make.
Mike Drak (08:34):
Exactly, because you know, what I did was when I
wrote that section in thechapter was I look back at my
life.
And I said, am I really happywith what I've accomplished to
date, what I've been through?
and I really wasn't because Iwas thinking, oh, I'm working in
a corporate world.
I'm working for a big bank.
Really, there's not a lot ofautonomy.
(08:55):
I took orders and I did whatthey wanted and I was very good
at it, but I wasn't happy doingit.
And things changed over time.
And then I said, I gotta getaway from this.
So I said, okay.
I paid my dues.
I went through that part of themovie, now it's me.
I'm the producer now.
I'm gonna make a happy endingfor myself and hopefully it's a
(09:17):
long, happy ending.
That's what I'm working on.
yeah, I think about it all thetime.
And another thing I think aboutis my future self, what gonna
look like and what I'm gonna bedoing in 10 years.
When I turn 80.
I think about it every day and Isay, okay.
What do I wanna be doing whenI'm 80?
(09:38):
Why, I put those things in placenow to help me get there?
and one of'em is my health.
I wanna be really healthy whenI'm 80.
'cause I wanna keep doing thethings I love to do, but I need
to start working on it now orit's not gonna happen.
So yeah, that's what I thinkabout'em.
Yasmin Nguyen (09:53):
Speaking of movies, Mike, you know in many
movies you start with the movieand then you've got the sequel,
and then you've got the prequelas well.
And I'm curious if we rewoundthe clock back to this journey
that you started where youexperienced retirement shock.
Can you help us understand whatwas the experience that you were
going through and what is thisretirement shock?
Mike Drak (10:14):
It was brutal at the time, believe me.
it was almost like a trapbecause one point when I, I was
59.
And I decided, okay, I don'twanna work here anymore.
In the bank.
I was getting stressed out.
I didn't like, some of thethings the bank was doing at the
time, office politics and allthat stuff.
It was just like it got to me Isaid, yeah, I gotta get outta
(10:38):
here.
So I was starting to tell peopleI, I'm planning on leaving.
People were shocked because wewere part of a defined pension,
plan.
You're not supposed to do thosethings like career.
to my surprise, one day someonecalled me into a surprise
meeting where they gave me thepackage.
Kathleen Mundy (10:57):
There you go.
Mike Drak (10:59):
I remember sitting there, it was the funniest
thing, and they had someonesitting beside me.
I guess they wanna make sure Ididn't jump out of a window and
my boss was sitting across fromme, he said, are you okay?
And I looked at him, I went, howam I gonna play this?
I went, oh, you know what?
I'm feeling a little dizzy.
(11:19):
This is a shock, And he says,maybe you should take the rest
of the day off.
I said, oh, thank you very much.
Yeah, it's, it's a big changefor me.
Thank you for understanding.
I got into the car, I phoned mywife and I said, Hey, contest,
we hit the jackpot because I wasgonna leave anyways, and instead
(11:42):
of walking away with nothing, Ihad their sever check.
That opened everything up for meand I said, wow, this is gonna
be great.
And I got home and for the firstweek everything was wonderful.
I didn't have to get up andcommute and I didn't have to,
report to certain people and doall these things.
(12:02):
And, at the end of the firstweek, the following Monday, I'll
never forget what happened.
I was sitting there on the couchtrying to find something
interesting to watch on tv.
I had one of these fancy smartTVs.
I got 500 stations.
I couldn't find anything towatch.
That was interesting.
And I started feeling reallymiserable and I was all by
(12:22):
myself'cause my wife was stillworking.
My friends were still workingand I'm just sitting there being
miserable and I go, there'ssomething wrong.
Because I got this money, I havemore than enough.
I don't have to worry about,making any more money, but I'm
miserable and I don't feel likedoing anything.
And what really bothered me,irritated me was no one could
(12:44):
understand what I was goingthrough.
My wife couldn't understand, myfriends couldn't understand
because everyone automaticallyassumed, how can Mike be unhappy
because he doesn't have to workanymore?
The truth is Mike was unhappy'cause he wasn't working
anymore.
He wasn't involved in things hewasn't doing interesting things
(13:05):
and dealing with people andsolving problems.
I love solving problems.
And I was doing nothing.
I was just sitting there like avegetable and that's when I
started sliding into retirement.
He and I spent, a year theretrying to figure things out and
that really bothered me andconcerned me because.
I saw that happen to my fatherand it cost him about a year
(13:25):
too, and I had a good friend diefrom it, he ended up drinking
himself, to death because he wasbored and he was lonely.
I.
And I said, no, this is bad andI gotta deal with it.
I went out and I got my hands onevery retirement book I can
looking for answers.
But I was frustrated againbecause all they did was the
money aspect of retirement.
(13:46):
No one talked about thepsychological side or the
challenges we'd be facing andwhat to do about it.
And so that's what led to thewriting of the books really is,
my personal journals.
Trying to figure differentthings out as I went through it.
And luckily I came up the otherside and, I found the solutions
I needed and life's never beenbetter.
(14:08):
But it took me a while to getthere and, my goal now these
days is I don't want people towaste a lot of time and go
through the stress and anxietythat I went through.
I'm saying, okay, let's Prep youbefore you actually retire, so
you're prepared for these thingsand you can jump into or use
retirement as a stepping stoneto a better life, and then try
(14:32):
to figure out what that lifewill look like.
Kathleen Mundy (14:36):
Well, it sounds as though you mirrored that with
your personal journey, which isI think, the best way to tell a
story and have people understandwhat they can face and how to
avoid it.
you also developed nineprinciples.
Have I got that correct in
Mike Drak (14:49):
Yes.
Kathleen Mundy (14:50):
overcome?
Can you share that with ustoday?
I think that our listeners wouldreally be interested in knowing
what those principles were
Mike Drak (14:57):
I call them in the book, retirement Principles.
But really now I've shifted itand I'm calling them Longevity
Principles because followingthese principles will lead to a
long and healthy life.
And these are principles Ifollow every day.
And really they're longevitydrivers.
what will make me happy and whatwill lead to a health healthy
(15:20):
life.
one of the principles isrelationships.
It's so important, they've doneso much research on this, that
you have to make sure thatyou're engaged and around people
and you either friends or familyor your neighbors or.
I always like to tell people,find a tribe to join, or
multiple tribes.
I belong to a swim tribe.
(15:41):
I belong to, a riding tribe.
it is so nice to interact withother people and there are
different age ranges too.
The young people, old people.
And, we feed off each other.
We feed off our energy.
we have fun and they encourageme to follow my goals and I
encourage them.
And, we mentor each other too.
You know, we talk about allthese different things.
(16:02):
So, that's such an importantdriver and that's just one of
them.
Another one is making sure wehave a positive attitude, right?
there's all kinds of researchdone.
The famous NUN study saying thathappy nuns outlive unhappy nuns.
And it holds true for everyoneis, if you have a positive
attitude, if you look at agingas a positive thing, guess what?
(16:26):
You're gonna live up to maybeseven and a half years longer
than the average, retiree.
And then we could go down thelist.
There's so many, more of'em.
but they're all longevitydrivers.
And there's things, I practiceevery day.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:39):
Mike, now you mentioned the word longevity.
what is your perception on thedifference or the intersection
between longevity andretirement?
I.
Mike Drak (16:47):
I take retirement right outta the equation, right?
My focus on longevity is,there's two things I look at.
There's health span that periodof time where I'm gonna be
healthy enough to do the things,I wanna do in lifespan, and
there's a gap between'em.
And I think the average gapright now.
Is about 11 years for retireesin Canada.
(17:10):
So maybe they're, and don'tquote me on the numbers but say,
the average retiree is healthyup to the age of 65, but then
they're gonna develop, a healthproblem.
Maybe it's gonna be arthritis,high blood pressure, or whatnot,
and it's going to impact thequality of their remaining life.
We're saying, it doesn't have tobe that way.
(17:30):
If you follow the longevitydrivers, our goal is to decrease
that, that gap, let's call itsix span.
We're going to decrease that sixspan as much as we can.
Best case scenario, I like to gofishing one day, a dinner with
my wife, and not wake up thenext morning.
(17:52):
That would be the perfect exitfor me.
And is, it is all about pushingour best before date as far back
as possible so we can enjoy realquality, years and quality
lifestyle.
But you know, it takes some workand attention.
Yasmin Nguyen (18:06):
Mike, now you talked about pushing back your
best before date.
how do people start doing thatin their own lives?
Mike Drak (18:12):
it gets back to the longevity drivers.
So we're looking at those andwe're saying, okay, here are
areas we need to focus on.
And one of them is just generalhealth.
Like a lot of people they.
Approach retirement.
Their health declines becausethey're busy at work and they're
getting a little slow, sothey're gaining weight and, bad
(18:33):
things start to creep in.
And we're saying, okay, let'snip this in the bud.
Let's turn this thing around.
And one of the most importantthings is doing weight training,
getting to the gym, doing weighttraining on a regular basis,
because that will keep you.
in,
Yasmin Nguyen (18:51):
Yes.
Mike Drak (18:51):
health.
And another thing we do is,aerobic, exercise and then we do
a VO two max exercises.
These are all proven to extendlongevity, increase our health
span.
so we're looking at that.
We're looking at the quality offood we eat.
we wanna eat, healthy foods, wewanna stay away from the bad
(19:12):
stuff.
A lot of those snacks and potatochip, I found the potato chips
and chicken wings.
you, you can still enjoy'em, butit's all in moderation.
So we're changing our diets,right?
And then we're hitting some ofthe other drivers and yeah,
we'll get there.
and like I said, the goal is topush that back as, as far as
possible.
(19:33):
When I was on my cruise, I metthis interesting retirement
rebel by the name of Clive.
He's 84 years old.
I wouldn't have known that andwe're in spinning class.
This guy's going hard.
He's jumping out of the saddle.
I couldn't believe it.
And then when they had the, highspeed spinning, he was pushing
(19:55):
the pedals, he was doing 150RPM.
I couldn't get up over 120.
And I'm looking at this guy, Isaid, Clive, when I'm your age,
I wanna be just like you.
But it is, it showed me thatit's possible.
have to work at it.
And Clive is, he was in spendingclass every day, just like me.
(20:15):
And he was in the gym everyafternoon.
He's 84, but he doesn't look atit, he doesn't act it because he
works at it.
That's the payoff.
And I, again, with my futureself, when I looked there and I
said, I wanna look like Clive.
I wanna act like Clive.
I wanna have Clive's lifestylebecause he spends a lot of time
traveling world on cruises andwhatnot.
And he's having a great time.
(20:36):
And I'm saying, wow, that's thekind of lifestyle I wouldn't
enjoy.
Yasmin Nguyen (20:39):
Wow.
I'm curious, when you talkedwith Clive, did you notice any,
anything unique about hismindset, because of course he's
taking action, but what is itthat's driving him to take
action?
I.
Mike Drak (20:51):
one, it's very youthful.
Number two, he put the fun backin the working out for me.
So we're riding side by side.
It's really hard, but we'relaughing about it.
It is like we're kids Again,it's the attitude.
It's just Clive was trying tobreak me, but he was having fun
doing it and I'm trying to hangon for dear life.
(21:11):
I don't want him to break me,and we're laughing about it, so
it gave me a new goal to worktowards.
And we feed off each other'senergy and then we start talking
about, Hey Clive, what else areyou doing?
Well, I got a part-time job.
This is what I said, you got apart-time job.
84.
He goes, yeah, I'm not gonnaretire.
Why won't I retire from doingsomething I love?
You can't argue with that.
(21:32):
And I go, that's a greatattitude to have.
he kept working at it.
Again, addressing theselongevity drivers and that's why
he's as happy he is and doingall the fun things he's doing,
and there's a lot of Clives outthere.
It'd be surprised, I meet himall the time.
Yasmin Nguyen (21:49):
You mentioned how important it is to have fun and
stay connected, but do you thinkyou'd still be fulfilled if you
didn't have something to worktowards, like a goal or even a
part-time gig that gave you thatsense of purpose?
Mike Drak (22:02):
No, you wouldn't be.
And and that's one thing myIronman training has taught me
too, is you have to be veryconsistent.
You have to be disciplined, andyou can't just say, oh, I'm
tired today.
I'll do it tomorrow becauseyou'll never get there.
I.
So you have to come up with yourown strategy that will work for
you, and you have to apply itevery day.
(22:24):
You have to be consistent.
And if you do that, yeah, goodthings happen.
Like you can improve your healtha little bit every day, you
gotta get to the gym to do itright, or you gotta go outside
and get those walks in.
Right?
But you know, the smart peoplecombine things too.
I need to socialize with peoplebecause that's a happiness
(22:46):
booster for me.
So why not go out for a walkwith a bunch of people?
Why not go to the gym with a fewfriends and have a few laughs as
we're working out?
You gotta make it fun, but yougotta have a purpose behind it
too, because that's what drivesit.
And purpose is one of the bestones.
live a long, healthy life.
Who doesn't want that?
Yasmin Nguyen (23:08):
It sounds like you've really found a rhythm
that brings you purpose and joy,but I wonder how does this
mindset show up when it comes toyour finances?
For example, is it easy for youto spend money you've worked so
hard to save?
Or do you find yourself holdingback even in retirement?
Mike Drak (23:24):
that's a complicated question because I'll tell you,
I have a problem.
have a hard time spending money.
I have a hard time spending downmy retirement assets, and I
don't know why that is.
I think probably part of it is'cause I spent so long trying to
save money and gain financialindependence.
(23:45):
And there's so many crazy thingshappening in the world, like
this tariff thing, and you justdon't know what's gonna come
down next.
And we saw what happened, wheninflation kicked up and things
like that.
I don't wanna lose sleep atnight.
So I thought, okay, What can Ido?
To make life easier and reducemy stress levels.
(24:07):
And the conclusion is to stillgenerate some level of active
income.
To me that made sense.
But I don't wanna workfull-time.
work part-time.
But the key is I'll only do workthat I love to do.
that's my standard and I hold tothat and now I'm there.
(24:28):
I do talks, I sell books and dosome other things.
I generate this fun money, whichis my cushion, and I don't have
any problem spending that moneyat all.
And then for the rest of it, letmy wife worry about it.
Yasmin Nguyen (24:47):
I'm curious, how do you and your wife navigate
the financial side of things?
Has your approach changed orhave you shifted more of that
responsibility to her?
Mike Drak (24:58):
Well, my wife's a financial advisor.
Before a couple years back, formany years I did my own
investing, own, saving myself.
It was like a hobby of mine.
I'd watch BNN all the time andtry to find out, where the
market was heading, pick up someinformation and whatnot.
But I finally got tired.
(25:19):
I got bored of it really.
I said, I don't wanna do thisanymore.
And I pushed it off to her and Isaid, I'm just gonna focus on
generating some additionalincome and having fun.
I.
That's what I'm doing.
And it is not to watch BNN allthe time, not to check your
phone to see what the stockprices are every five minutes.
(25:42):
it's nice not to be, not to dothat anymore.
So it's, yeah, taking a lot ofheat off.
Yasmin Nguyen (25:47):
Mike, has your relationship with your wife
shifted as you've stepped intothis chapter retirement, and
perhaps she's still in themiddle of her career?
I.
Mike Drak (25:57):
Yeah, we have some interesting discussions because
sometimes I feel she doesn'tview my work as real work.
Because she has to go out in thecar and drive to work and has to
sit in an office and do allthis.
I just walk upstairs.
I'm in my office and I dowhatever I feel like doing.
So I have a lot more freedom andflexibility.
(26:20):
Maybe she takes her work moreseriously than I do.
I just have fun doing it, and Ionly deal with people that I
wanna deal with.
yeah, it's still work, but it'sa different kind of work if you
pick up what I'm trying to say.
Prefer my kind of work muchmore.
Yasmin Nguyen (26:37):
Yeah.
speaking of work, you were inthe banking and financial
services world for quite a whileand I'm curious, based on your
experience, what role shouldadvisors be playing in guiding
their clients through thesetypes of transitions?
Mike Drak (26:52):
Well, this is one of my pet peeves right now after
having gone through andexperienced what I did.
I think it's very important foran advisor to step up to the
plate and use a more holisticapproach with respect to
retirement planning.
So when we talk retirementplanning, it's not just numbers,
(27:13):
about lifestyle design, it'sabout preparing your customers.
For the non-financial challengesthey're gonna be facing and
helping them come up with anappropriate lifestyle plan that
will work for them the rest ofthe years they're gonna enjoy in
the future.
(27:33):
that takes time, but they're theones in the best position to do
it right.
it is so important because weknow one in three retirees are
gonna suffer from retirementshock, and it doesn't have to
happen.
they need someone to educatethem and help prepare them and
to hold their hand as theytransition through, because a
(27:54):
lot of people will struggle withit and it can be very difficult.
Right now, the pushback is, Iknow some of the advisors say,
why should I do it?
I'm not gonna make any moremoney doing it.
And I'm saying listen, if you'rea trusted advisor.
have an obligation to help yourclients because it's gonna be a
tough patch for some of them toget through.
(28:16):
And yeah, if you wanna be thetrusted advisor, you gotta step
off the plate and help'em,right?
And it doesn't take a lot oftime to do it, but just give'em
the information and have thesediscussions and when you have a
quarterly meeting, okay.
a little bit about the money andthe returns and things like
(28:37):
that, but then let's get into,okay, what are your plans for
the future?
What do you see yourself doing?
What sources of new purpose areyou gonna have?
Are you gonna get healthy again?
Do you need to get healthyagain?
What's your plan for doing thatand having these meaningful
conversations and the advisorsthat are doing it are having a
lot of fun with it.
(28:59):
Because, instead of just talkingabout money, which gets boring
really fast, we're talking aboutlife and what's your vision for
your future?
And that's where it getsinteresting.
I just love doing it withpeople.
Yasmin Nguyen (29:12):
That's such a powerful perspective, Mike, and
I imagine when advisors takethat extra step to have those
deeper conversations, it changeseverything, not just the client,
but the advisor too.
do you think that's what reallybuilds trust and long-term
relationships?
Mike Drak (29:29):
sure.
Because you're showing to yourclients, you care about them,
you care about their futures,right?
And it allows you todifferentiate yourself from
other advisors that just want totalk about money.
a trusted advisor is your go-toperson, right?
I got an issue, I'm scared aboutthis.
we talk about it?
And you're looking for theirexpertise and you're looking to
(29:53):
use them as a sounding board tosay, Hey.
I'm thinking of doing this, whatdo you think?
And I want your input.
that's why it's important thatthey get that input.
So the smart advisors arestarting to go there, but it's
slow because it's hard to getthe banks to buy in.
I.
Because they're looking at themoney side, right?
And they're looking at, whatkind of return they can earn.
(30:15):
And they're saying, do we reallyneed to provide that?
Because it's going to eat upsome hours with an advisor,
right?
And some advisors don't wanna doit, or they're uncomfortable
with doing it.
and so that's what we have todeal with right now.
And then I noticed like theindustry in itself, if you look
at it,'cause of thedemographics, With the advisors.
You got a lot of older advisorsand they're saying, my book's
(30:40):
big enough.
I don't need to do this, and Idon't feel like doing it.
And then, we're looking at,okay, we can't change down, but
we can get to the youngeradvisors that are going to be
taking their place and say,okay.
This is the thing that you gotto start thinking about and
providing to your clients andthey'll buy.
I'm sure it'll buy into it'causeit only makes sense, but that
(31:03):
change is gonna take some time.
Yasmin Nguyen (31:04):
Absolutely.
And as we look at change, we'renot only looking at the change
in advisors, but also thedemographics of the clients.
the younger generations are moreastute and they make decisions
based on relationships andstewardships and all of these
other considerations beyond justthe services.
Mike Drak (31:23):
That's right.
And it's gonna go there becauseit has to, but it is just, it is
taken a little bit longer thanI'd like to see.
Yasmin Nguyen (31:31):
Yeah, you're making an impact doing it with
both, your speaking, but Al andalso your books as well.
it seems to chronicle your ownpersonal journey and taking us
along the ride there.
And I'm curious, what's next foryou?
What's the next book?
What's the next journey beyondyour, iron Man?
A challenge?
Mike Drak (31:48):
Well, there's two big dreams I have.
the first dream is I'm going toprobably partner up with my wife
after Ironman, I'm going to, Iwanna be a role model for
advisors and I'm going toprovide retirement guidance for
her clients.
And so she'll talk about themoney side of her partner and
(32:11):
all that, and.
I'll come in time of need tosay, okay, I'm gonna talk about
planning, non-traditionalretirement planning, and here's
my books.
The your homework is to read thebooks, and then we'll sit down
and we'll have these meaningful,deep conversations about what
your plans are and what I thinkyou need to focus on, and we'll
(32:36):
work together to create thislifestyle plan.
it, it takes time.
'cause I wanna get to thesepeople before they jump into
retirement.
I, and the planning processreally is probably gonna take a
couple years.
And what I'm really excitedabout is dealing with people.
I dub late bloomers, the onesthat reach financial
(32:57):
independence maybe in theirfifties.
Instead of saying, oh, I justwanna retire.
I wanna use it as stepping stoneto something better.
I want to go do something I,I've always dreamed about and
whatever that is, and let'sfigure out how we can get there
and prep them and help'em.
then one day they'll come to meand say, guess what?
(33:19):
Tomorrow I'm making a jump.
gonna become whatever.
And that's the exciting part.
You know, people are startingthese home-based businesses and
whatnot.
They have these dreams andthey're saying, I wanna get
outta this corporate job'causeI'm burned out, but I'm not
gonna stop.
I'm gonna do this.
It's a sound plan and I'm gonnacontinue on for as long as I
(33:41):
want.
think to me, that makes perfectsense.
Yasmin Nguyen (33:45):
Did you ever have a moment where you found
something new that totallysurprised you?
I.
Mike Drak (33:50):
yeah, it's so important.
so you're coming up with newideas and it is so exciting to
see that.
and that's why I love dealingwith these late bloomers because
really believe that everyone hasa purpose and they've had it all
their lives and they havecertain skills.
That maybe they never had achance to develop and certain
(34:12):
interests and certain passions.
And what we wanna do is get'emback on that path and see where
it takes them.
And that's the exciting stuff.
And you see these peoplebecoming, like me, maybe a
writer I never wrote before.
I had no idea.
But then I started experimentingwith and I went, wow, this is
(34:33):
neat.
then the funniest thing is I hadthis terrible fear of public
speaking.
I had it for all my life and Inever thought I would be able to
do it.
And then after writing a book, Isaid, I gotta learn how to
public speak so I can go out andtalk about the book And I went
and I conquered that fear.
(34:53):
I couldn't believe it.
It would've been one of mybiggest regrets, that be
unresolved.
I actually went to Toastmasters,and I can't tell you how many
times I went there and sat inthe parking lot and bailed on
the meeting, and one time Isaid, you know what?
This is the last chance I gottago in there and I gotta conquer
(35:14):
this fear.
I'll never forget I walked inthe meeting and, I guess they
know you're new and you'rescared.
And so they come up and they tryto talk you down a little bit
and get a little calm.
I'll never forget, I told thelady, I said, do me a favor, and
she goes, yeah, sure what?
And I said, can you go lock thedoor?
Because at some point I'm gonna,I'm gonna make a break.
I'm gonna try to get outta here.
(35:36):
and she went over and locked thedoor and it was hard.
It was so hard.
You have no idea.
got through the night and I wentback the next night and got
through it again, and then Iwent back the next week and got
through it again and it got alittle bit easier, but it was
hard work.
But I avoided, one of my biggestregrets I would ever have is, my
(35:59):
fear of public speaking Andpeople all have these fears and
we're saying, okay, let's dealwith it.
Let's get it behind us and let'smove on to new things.
And these are people that aregrowers, they have a grower's
that don't wanna stop.
They wanna keep learning newthings, they wanna keep
experimenting with new thingsand come up with new ideas.
(36:20):
And, those are the people I lovedealing with.
Yasmin Nguyen (36:22):
Mike, that's so inspirational.
as, you're literally modelingthe.
Retirement rebel, and you'redoing it through your growth
mindset.
That's one of the things weexplore is the growth versus
fixed mindset and the growth iswhere it opens up all these
possibilities.
thank you for sharing that withus.
for our listeners, who wannalearn more, who wanna become a
retirement rebel, who wannaaccess your resources and books,
(36:45):
where can they find you?
Mike Drak (36:47):
Okay, the good news is that you can go to booming
encore.com and you can download,two of my books.
You can download RetirementHeaven or Hell, which is my
favorite book.
And there's also another book,longevity Lifestyle by Design
that will teach you aboutretirement shock and how you can
(37:07):
avoid it.
And also tell you about how tostart working on your future
retirement lifestyle design, theone that you want to retire into
and keep growing and doing allkinds of, great things.
So those books are there, thereason I gave'em for, I've
decided to give'em away for freeis I just wanna help people.
(37:28):
don't want'em to go through whatI went through.
I want'em to have great.
Lifes, and so that's why they'rethere.
place you can find me is onLinkedIn, so you can, I'm always
coming up with posts ondifferent, subjects relating to
retirement and longevity.
And then if you wanna reallyhave fun, can follow my inst
(37:51):
Instagram account, follow MyRetirement, or let's call it
Ironman Journey.
So you can find me at retirementRebel.
And, yeah, it's, that's gonna bevery interesting because I don't
know how it's gonna turn out,but I'm gonna give it a real
good shot and worst case, I'mgonna get my health back
(38:12):
anyways.
But, I'm gonna learn a lot.
I'm gonna talk about it, andalso share some retirement
thoughts as I go through it.
But yeah, it's gonna beinteresting.
Yasmin Nguyen (38:21):
Excellent.
We'll include all those in theshow notes so people can easily
find you.
as we wrap up with ourconversation I love that you're
not just offering tools, butencouraging people to check in
with themselves regularly.
It's so easy to drift offcourse.
Do you recommend any kind ofprocess or rhythm to help people
stay aligned over time?
I.
Mike Drak (38:40):
No, that's a very important point because what I
recommend in the book is doingan annual review and looking at
all these longevity drivers.
sure that you're not, youforgetting about some of'em, or
to make sure you're puttingenough emphasis on certain areas
if they're lacking, because likeyou say, they feed off each
(39:02):
other, they balance each otherout, and you need them all
working together and it's easyto lose sight of it.
So you want, you wanna keepchecking that you wanna keep
working on them and you wanna befocused on that future self.
say, here's what I wanna be in10 years, what I wanna look like
and here's what I wanna bedoing.
(39:24):
keep going out, keep going.
It's like a rolling budget.
Keep going out, keep changingthings, but have a goal to work
towards.
Right.
Yasmin Nguyen (39:32):
Yeah.
Wow.
That's such a great reminder,Mike, to keep checking in with
yourself and evolving withintention.
I just wanna say your passion iscontagious, and I know so many
people who are going to benefitfrom your work.
Thank you so much for everythingthat you're doing.
Mike Drak (39:47):
it's been a lot of fun.
It's a pleasure.
I like talking to people thatget it and I love the work
you're doing and between us,we're gonna help a lot of people
Yasmin Nguyen (39:58):
Yeah.
Mike Drak (39:58):
What it's all about at the end of the day.
just having a lot of fun doingit too.
Yasmin Nguyen (40:03):
Thank you so much, Mike.
What a joy to have you, andwe've learned so much and so
appreciate you being a part ofthis conversation with.
Mike Drak (40:11):
My pleasure.
Yasmin Nguyen (40:12):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow and leave acomment or view on your favorite
platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out this show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(40:33):
thisepisode@realretirementshow.com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherreal retirement conversation.
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