June 25, 2025 • 25 mins
Ever wondered what separates those who merely survive trauma from those who transform it into a force for change? Carolyn Moore, founder of Modern Widows Club, returns to the podcast to introduce us to the concept of the "super survivor" – individuals who don't just overcome personal tragedy but return to create support systems for others walking similar paths.
Drawing from the groundbreaking research of Dr. Stephen Southwick (whose book "Resilience: The Science of Mastering Life's Greatest Challenges" enters its third edition this September), Carolyn shares her personal journey from struggling widow to recognized change agent. The transformation wasn't immediate or easy. Initially motivated simply by providing basic needs for her young daughters, Carolyn gradually discovered the profound impact widowhood had on every aspect of her life – physically, emotionally, financially, and spiritually. Her turning point came during an appearance on Oprah, when she was described as "a hero who didn't know it," prompting her to ask: what if I became the hero of my own story?
What makes Carolyn's work through Modern Widows Club so powerful is how it addresses the exact components of resilience she once lacked – role models who had navigated similar losses and spaces where widows can both give and receive support. The four-stage journey she describes (choosing life, reaching out, getting moving, and giving back) serves as a roadmap for anyone navigating grief. Her latest project, "Legendary Widows: Stories of Legacy," highlights twelve extraordinary women including Coretta Scott King and Eleanor Roosevelt, showcasing their remarkable accomplishments after losing their spouses – contributions that often go unrecognized in historical narratives.
Whether you're personally navigating loss or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers profound insights into how trauma can become a catalyst for positive change. As Carolyn reminds us, "A formidable woman is a terrible thing to waste," and recognizing someone as a super survivor might be the most powerful gift you can give them. The journey from surviving to thriving begins with understanding that resilience isn't just about enduring – it's about taking responsibility for writing the next chapter of your story.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris,
where we talk about relevantissues as it relates to
individuals in grief as theynavigate finances and the
advisors who help them.
We help clients in griefnavigate financial matters.
We also teach advisors how toemotionally and financially work
with clients in grief throughan unparalleled process.
(00:27):
This week's podcast issponsored by Life After Grief
Financial Planning and LifeAfter Grief Consulting.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hello and welcome back to another fabulous episode
of Real Talk with Life AfterGrief, chris.
In today's episode I havesuperstar slash super survivor
Carolyn Moore on the episode fora second time.
Carolyn is actually the personthat introduced me to the idea
of a super survivor.
She actually called me a supersurvivor in, I think, our first
(01:02):
meeting or subsequent meetings,and I didn't really have any
idea what that meant and shekind of forced me to go and read
about it and I figured it outand I was pleasantly wowed.
So, carolyn, if you recall shewas on a previous episode she is
the present founder anddevelopment director of the
Modern Widows Club and basicallyI'm going to describe the
(01:23):
Modern Widows Club in her terms.
I'm going to describe theModern Widows Club in her terms
and then I'm going to make iteasy in my terms so I can
understand it as well.
So the Modern Widows Club arepioneers in solution support and
research for widows worldwideand I like to make things very
simplistic so I can understandthem.
It is simply widows mentoringwidows, and that's how I
(01:47):
describe it when I introducedthe idea and the thought to any
client or any prospect thatcomes with me and I was just
telling Carolyn before we got onhere, there was a lady that is
a widow about a year and a halfwidow and the first thing that I
did is I recommended her to goto the Modern Widows Club and
(02:10):
seek out support before weinteract.
Carolyn, welcome back.
Thank you for agreeing to be onthe podcast.
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Great to see you again, chris, even if we're not
live, which is our favorite.
Yes, even if we're not live.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So something else that funny, that happened.
So I show up, I can see Carolyn, she can see me, and so I am
very casual.
Today I have a just do it Nikeshirt on and Carolyn looks like
she's getting ready to walk onthe red carpet, so I almost
turned my video off this morning.
So, carolyn, I want to diveinto super survivor.
(02:51):
You obviously are a supersurvivor to the nth degree and
if folks don't rememberCarolyn's background, she is a
widow, obviously, and that iswhat sprang everything that she
is about in this second phase ofher life and career and what
she does, and for a lot ofpeople she's known worldwide.
(03:13):
Um, she's famous and um.
So I just want to you know, letyou, you know, tell us what has
brought you to this status.
And I'm going to probe you alittle bit from the book, very
specifically but what makes youa super survivor?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, according to Dr Stephen Southwick, who was my
mentor and who wrote the bookResilience the Science of
Mastering Life's GreatestChallenges, which, when I first
was exposed to it, I was exposedto the first edition and then
they updated it in the secondedition and now me and my
(03:56):
organization are going to be inthe third edition of the book,
which comes out September 11th,but in my connection with Dr
Steve, who actually passed awaylast year, his lifetime of
resilience, science and stressand personal growth.
Research said that people whohave gone through a tragedy and
(04:23):
are coming out the other sideare called survivors.
However, the people who takethat experience and then they
come back and they help otherswith a very like circumstance,
those people are consideredsuper survivors.
Those are the people who comeback and change the dynamics of
(04:43):
maybe what you know in myinstance, very little support
for widows.
I came back and I questionedthe lack of social systems for
widows to be supported and Isaid, well, what would it look
like if we had programs thatbrought more hope and healing
and growth and, you know, setwomen's lives on a different
(05:05):
trajectory than maybe what I hadexperienced?
And so a super survivor is thatperson that initiates that real
change that needs to happen inthe world.
And all of the people whetheryou're a survivor or a super
survivor are people on what hecalled a survivor mission.
On what he called a survivormission and I had just never
really thought of like my life,like on a mission as a survivor.
(05:30):
But it's so true because whenwe experience anything, any kind
of sudden trauma, whether it'srealized at the moment or
realized later on, when it'swhen we're in a different space
as an adult, and we look back,we realize that yeah, I came
through that and a lot of timespeople just haven't really given
(05:51):
the thought of how heroic theywere in that and in rebuilding
and coming back and helpingothers.
So super survivor is sort ofhow would I would call
extraordinary, ordinary peoplebecoming extraordinary change
agents.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I would agree with you 100% and I am going to
reference the book that youdescribed.
So in the first two podcasts ofthis season, season five, I
referenced the book and I'mgoing to put a reference in the
notes section as well.
But very specifically in thebook, what Carolyn has described
(06:28):
so eloquently, I'm going tokind of highlight it.
So what Carolyn has done is shehas chosen life.
That's one aspect.
She has reached out, she's gotmoving and she's given back.
And so what made you decide towake up one day and choose life?
(06:49):
Not that you had a choice, butwhat made you choose life and
not look in the past?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well, initially it was.
I have two daughters.
I had two daughters who weretwo and four years old who
required food and shelter andbasics, right.
So that was my motivation.
It's just at a very core level.
I think when you go throughtrauma, you really go from this
(07:17):
self-actualization, like we seein Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
and you go back down to thebottom, you go back to basic
sustenance, right, and you haveto rebuild a life, back up to a
self-actualization.
And so no one really explainedit to me like that in the
beginning, but I felt that Ifelt that my life crumbled right
(07:40):
.
So a big part of Right, so abig part of for me.
But motivation was simply thepeople I loved the most and the
people who needed me.
But as time went on, you knowthe motivation had to become
bigger because you the theimpact, I think, on widowhood,
(08:03):
the impact on every aspect ofyour life.
I had no idea that it was goingto obviously impact me
emotionally, mentally and alsofinancially.
But what I didn't know is howit was going to impact every
relationship I had Spiritually.
It was going to impact me allthe questions of doubt and anger
(08:24):
and fear.
I was struggling immensely fromthat, but I would say in 2006,
when I was on the Oprah show,was really the defining moment
for me, because I was seen asthis person who had it kind of
all together and I was not atall in the background of my life
(08:49):
.
I could barely get a shower, Icould barely operate, I had
adrenal fatigue.
It took everything that I coulddo to wake up every morning and
do the day, and these are thethings.
I just had no one to speak with, I had no one to even uh ask.
You know, is this normal?
And what I now know is, ofcourse, literally widowhood was
(09:12):
an all upfront attack on myhealth.
It went unidentified by thehealthcare industry.
You know, counseling can onlydo so much, but the actual
physical impact to my body waswhat I really severely
underestimated and I struggledbecause of that.
I had PTSD, undiagnosed.
You know, I was in a caraccident.
(09:33):
I was in a very bloody caraccident that was extremely
traumatizing.
So when I was on the Oprah show,she, she, really she said I was
a hero and didn't know it, andthat kind of reverberated out
(09:53):
and there were so many widowsthat saw that show and they said
can you help me be like you.
So I had to step back for asecond and go.
I don't really feel like I'm ahero.
I don't really feel like I'mthat person that Oprah just said
I was and now is like millionsof people are seeing.
But I said, what would it looklike if I was the hero of my own
(10:17):
story?
What if she's right?
And that was what really set mytrajectory at year six on a
completely different realm.
And that was when I said whatwould happen if I did become the
hero of my story?
And as I did that, I startedrealizing, you know, what makes
(10:37):
me feel alive Not just takingwhat I've learned and sharing it
with someone else because theymay need that information.
And so that's what really, youknow, I I started and and you
know it's all research backednow I I'm, you know Dr Steve's
work, the there's, you know the,the 10 key components of
(11:00):
building resilience.
The two that I needed the mostwere the two that didn't exist,
and that was the imitatingresilient role models.
I needed to find other widowslike myself and also have a
space where I could both giveand receive right, we can't just
receive, we have to give.
And so when I started givingback that just completely.
(11:23):
It was the end of the cycle ofhealing for me.
And then that continued on as Igave and, you know, actively
listened, and that is where thereal healing happens in trauma.
There's your work and thenthere's your give back.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You eloquently described the next three phases.
So what I was hearing is thatyou didn't have necessarily a
situation where you could reachout and connect with other
survivors.
So you created your ownsituation to where you could,
and then you went a step furtherand you created this system
(12:03):
that other widows could chime inand you in and now reach out.
They didn't have to reinventthe wheel and I think that in
itself is what elevated you veryquickly from the choosing life
stage to reaching out and notnecessarily having anybody to
reach out to, but took you tothat next level of super
(12:24):
survivor.
And then the other thingsstarted falling into place.
You had to get moving.
You know you had set goals andyou know you were taking action
and taking no prisoners, as Iknow you pretty well.
And then you know giving backand you constantly give back.
And for anybody that has evermet Carolyn seen Carolyn she is
(12:47):
a firecracker in regards to thepassion she brings and the
energy for her organization andputting widows first and getting
them all kind of access andthings that they frankly deserve
and getting them all kind ofaccess and things that they
(13:08):
frankly deserve.
So I'm just and I was telling-Carolyn.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Every time that I meet with her I have to take
notes because I'm just learningso much so quickly.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So yes, you're learning.
You're learning what I call myPhD in uncommon knowledge, so I
have to take a lot of notes andCarolyn, so I'm kind of on this
journey myself about reading alot more and um, so she had, you
know, encouraged me to, youknow, read the book on
resilience, and then there'sanother edition that's coming
out, I think, in september, isthat correct?
yeah, september 11th yeah, soI've already, um, I already have
(13:42):
mine pre-ordered and I now, inturn, recommend that to some
other folks.
And there's a part on the book.
I don't have the book, or, yes,I do in front.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, I have an advanced copy of the third
edition.
You're going to love it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I pass this on to some very dear friends.
So I have the second edition inmy hand, and so on the title
page of the book, it says everyparent, coach and organizational
leader should read this now andpass it on to those they care
about the most.
And so I'll pass this on tofolks, and so I always have a
(14:22):
method as to why I pass this on,or I'm very methodic and some
folks catch it very quickly.
And one of my dear friends, um,she was in kind of a funk or
doing something, um, on her ownand um, I sent it thinking about
this message, about, she's oneof the people that I care about
the most.
(14:42):
She lost her daughter, um, overa year ago and um, so she was
like I just read the quote onthe front.
She's like I'm one of thepeople that you care the most
about and I've known her sincehigh school and I and she and I
was like yes, you finally got it, uh, hello.
And so it was like you'repretty slow, but I said you're a
(15:07):
super survivor, um, you justdon't know it yet, um, and so I
was kind of setting her up, youknow, to be in a situation where
, um, she could be comforted and, um, you know, she reaches out
to me.
She's in kind of that reach outstage and so I recognize that
and I wanted to give her alittle bit of boost.
(15:27):
But the reason I'm sharing thatis because Carolyn shared that
with me and so now I can shareit with other people.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
You're welcome.
I really well, because DrStephen Southwick shared it with
me just in one of ourconversations and getting to
know me and understanding sortof the background and you know
he's used to working withveterans.
He's used to working withamputees and people who have had
what he had never thought aboutwidowhood as a traumatic
(15:58):
detachment experience.
And he's, you know, a renownedpsychologist.
And he's, you know, a renownedpsychologist.
So I think curious peopleconstantly are looking for new
knowledge, but also newknowledge that we can easily
pass on.
And recognizing someone as asuper survivor and actually
telling them that they are islike this beautiful million, you
(16:21):
know chain link, you know thingkind of gift of saying, hey,
have you did?
You know that you were this?
Um, because I think a lot ofpeople who give back and I have
met so many people who are doingsuch great things in nonprofits
and and you know, not, not evenin nonprofits just acts of
(16:43):
kindness and um, you know these.
You often will talk to them andthey'll say had some of the.
You know these.
You often will talk to them andthey'll say had some of the
most calm people, have had themost complex backgrounds and
they worked hard to get there.
And so when you ask someone, youknow what's your story.
I always, my goal is always toshow up, like you said, like in
(17:04):
this beautiful Barbie pink thatI have on.
People don't know, at firstglance, that I experienced a
severe trauma and tragedy in mylife and but now I'm here and
I'm the best role model that Ipossibly can be, because I live
out this research every day inmy life and that's why I'm in
(17:25):
the third edition.
I'm.
My chapter is in the survivormission section.
I'm the story that they tell.
But Survivor Mission section I'mgoing to share.
Just you don't have the book,but in the parting words it says
resilience is aboutunderstanding the difference
between fate and freedom,learning to take responsibility
(17:47):
for one's own life.
Responsibility for one's ownlife and working within your
scope of control, that's, I mean, that's really you know.
This is why the exchange ofknowledge and accomplishments,
where you see, when you mentionyou know you're a super survivor
, people just aren't told that,they're not given any awards or
(18:11):
accolades over it.
But it's wonderful in thesevery intimate conversations that
people will, like you will sayyou're a super survivor.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It makes a difference .
It does make a difference,carolyn, I'm I'm always in awe
when I speak to you.
I appreciate you know youspending some time, and I'm
going to be spending some timewith you tomorrow.
I'm going to introduce you to agroup of women in transition,
so I'm excited about that, andyou've invited me to a couple of
(18:44):
events that you are eitherhosting or a major part of in
the next couple of months.
So I appreciate that.
Yes, is there anything elsethat you want to talk about or
brag about?
Yes, please do.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Well, two years ago we had we have a golden
committee at Modern Widows Cluband it's really.
How do we come up with brightideas of not only changing the
narrative about widows but alsocreating revenue streams,
because to find grants tosupport widows organizations is
(19:20):
extremely hard.
It's so unknown and soinvisible.
So what we did is we embarkedon writing a book, and this book
is now out on Amazon and it'scalled Legendary Widows Stories
of Legacy, and it's 12extraordinary women's stories,
(19:42):
some of them you'll know, likeCoretta Scott King or Eleanor
Roosevelt.
You know these are women thatwe know.
We don't really think of them inthe perspective of what they
did in widowhood.
There would be no King Centerwith Martin Luther King if not
for Coretta Scott King.
There would be no UN Women ifnot for Eleanor Roosevelt.
(20:05):
We look at these women'sstories, and so it's these 12
stories about women.
Know, we look at these women'sstories, and so it's these 12
stories about women, but weshare the bios.
We actually, modern Widows Club, has a book club, so we utilize
the talent that we had withinthere to write these 12 bios.
But then I write a companionpiece called More Thoughts, and
(20:27):
I talk about why this particularwoman was chosen for this book
and how she's inspired my lifeto then, of course, then pass
along and share with all thewomen in our organization, and
so it really shows, I think,what women and anyone who reads
this book will go.
Wow, I never really thoughtabout this woman's story and the
(20:51):
perspective of what sheaccomplished in widowhood, and
it's really everyone who haswritten the book so far has
gotten to the foreword andstarted crying because it was so
affirming that they have greatthings to do.
I always say a formidable womanis a terrible thing to waste,
(21:14):
and we're doing going to create,but it's out now and hopefully
every year on InternationalWidows Day, june 23rd, we'll
(21:36):
have one of these in the series,and so it's this one.
The next one we're doing isStories of Strength, and I was
really grateful to Paul Chavezfrom the Cesar Chavez Foundation
.
Oh, wow, okay, he wrote theintroduction and he talks about
his mother, helen Fabella Chavez, and this book is actually now
(21:57):
going to be in the Cesar ChavezNational Monument Bookstore.
Wow know, you know what happenswhen you go back, and Paul
Chauvet said he was so gratefulbecause his you know, people
always said, people always saythat you know every great man,
you know there's a great womanbehind him and he was like let
(22:20):
me make it clear my mom neverstood behind my dad.
She always stood next to him orsometimes ahead of him, and so
we need to give these women therecognition for what they, how
they have contributed to thegood that exists in the world
today.
So I'm really excited aboutthis book because it's it's been
(22:43):
a two year passion project forme and it's been taken a big
team and big investing and andit's available and 100% of the
proceeds come back to ModernWidows Club.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Awesome.
Can you repeat the title of thebook again?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, it's called Legendary Widows Stories of
Legacy.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Got it.
I'm going to make sure I havethat in the notes, as I am also
taking notes.
Thank you, awesomeCongratulations, thank you.
Thank you, awesomeCongratulations, thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Is there anything else that I missed, Carolyn, or
anything else you're going toforce me to take notes on?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
No, I don't think that's it All right.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
You can find Carolyn at themodernwidowscluborg and
again, I will put a link to herorganization and also a link to
be able to purchase the book.
Uh, with the notes section onthis podcast.
Carolyn, I'm a grateful for allthe tutelage you give me.
(23:43):
Um, you are a book of wisdomand um, I appreciate learning
from you every time that we meet.
So, and I will see you tomorrow, yeah, that's right, thank you,
yeah, I'm excited.
So for anyone that's listening,thank you, Appreciate all the
listeners and please feel freeto pass this podcast on to any
(24:06):
of your friends, family membersor colleagues.
And please remember you canalso support the show so I can
continue doing great things forother people and supporting very
, very good organizations.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Thanks for listening to our podcast.
If you are a client and arelooking to work directly with
Chris and or our firm, head onover to Life After Grief FP.
That is Life After Grief FP.
The FP is for financialplanning.
If you are an advisor lookingto emotionally and financially
work with your client in grief,or if you are a client looking
(24:43):
to get your advisor's head inthe game, head on over to
lifeaftergriefconsultingcom.
That islifeaftergriefconsultingcom.
Any related informationreferenced in this week's
podcast will be located here inthe podcast section.
Welcome to Real Talk with Life After Grief Chris,
where we talk about relevantissues as it relates to
individuals in grief as theynavigate finances and the
advisors who help them.
We help clients in griefnavigate financial matters.
We also teach advisors how toemotionally and financially work
with clients in grief throughan unparalleled process.
(00:27):
This week's podcast issponsored by Life After Grief
Financial Planning and LifeAfter Grief Consulting.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hello and welcome back to another fabulous episode
of Real Talk with Life AfterGrief, chris.
In today's episode I havesuperstar slash super survivor
Carolyn Moore on the episode fora second time.
Carolyn is actually the personthat introduced me to the idea
of a super survivor.
She actually called me a supersurvivor in, I think, our first
(01:02):
meeting or subsequent meetings,and I didn't really have any
idea what that meant and shekind of forced me to go and read
about it and I figured it outand I was pleasantly wowed.
So, carolyn, if you recall shewas on a previous episode she is
the present founder anddevelopment director of the
Modern Widows Club and basicallyI'm going to describe the
(01:23):
Modern Widows Club in her terms.
I'm going to describe theModern Widows Club in her terms
and then I'm going to make iteasy in my terms so I can
understand it as well.
So the Modern Widows Club arepioneers in solution support and
research for widows worldwideand I like to make things very
simplistic so I can understandthem.
It is simply widows mentoringwidows, and that's how I
(01:47):
describe it when I introducedthe idea and the thought to any
client or any prospect thatcomes with me and I was just
telling Carolyn before we got onhere, there was a lady that is
a widow about a year and a halfwidow and the first thing that I
did is I recommended her to goto the Modern Widows Club and
(02:10):
seek out support before weinteract.
Carolyn, welcome back.
Thank you for agreeing to be onthe podcast.
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Great to see you again, chris, even if we're not
live, which is our favorite.
Yes, even if we're not live.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
So something else that funny, that happened.
So I show up, I can see Carolyn, she can see me, and so I am
very casual.
Today I have a just do it Nikeshirt on and Carolyn looks like
she's getting ready to walk onthe red carpet, so I almost
turned my video off this morning.
So, carolyn, I want to diveinto super survivor.
(02:51):
You obviously are a supersurvivor to the nth degree and
if folks don't rememberCarolyn's background, she is a
widow, obviously, and that iswhat sprang everything that she
is about in this second phase ofher life and career and what
she does, and for a lot ofpeople she's known worldwide.
(03:13):
Um, she's famous and um.
So I just want to you know, letyou, you know, tell us what has
brought you to this status.
And I'm going to probe you alittle bit from the book, very
specifically but what makes youa super survivor?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well, according to Dr Stephen Southwick, who was my
mentor and who wrote the bookResilience the Science of
Mastering Life's GreatestChallenges, which, when I first
was exposed to it, I was exposedto the first edition and then
they updated it in the secondedition and now me and my
(03:56):
organization are going to be inthe third edition of the book,
which comes out September 11th,but in my connection with Dr
Steve, who actually passed awaylast year, his lifetime of
resilience, science and stressand personal growth.
Research said that people whohave gone through a tragedy and
(04:23):
are coming out the other sideare called survivors.
However, the people who takethat experience and then they
come back and they help otherswith a very like circumstance,
those people are consideredsuper survivors.
Those are the people who comeback and change the dynamics of
(04:43):
maybe what you know in myinstance, very little support
for widows.
I came back and I questionedthe lack of social systems for
widows to be supported and Isaid, well, what would it look
like if we had programs thatbrought more hope and healing
and growth and, you know, setwomen's lives on a different
(05:05):
trajectory than maybe what I hadexperienced?
And so a super survivor is thatperson that initiates that real
change that needs to happen inthe world.
And all of the people whetheryou're a survivor or a super
survivor are people on what hecalled a survivor mission.
On what he called a survivormission and I had just never
really thought of like my life,like on a mission as a survivor.
(05:30):
But it's so true because whenwe experience anything, any kind
of sudden trauma, whether it'srealized at the moment or
realized later on, when it'swhen we're in a different space
as an adult, and we look back,we realize that yeah, I came
through that and a lot of timespeople just haven't really given
(05:51):
the thought of how heroic theywere in that and in rebuilding
and coming back and helpingothers.
So super survivor is sort ofhow would I would call
extraordinary, ordinary peoplebecoming extraordinary change
agents.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I would agree with you 100% and I am going to
reference the book that youdescribed.
So in the first two podcasts ofthis season, season five, I
referenced the book and I'mgoing to put a reference in the
notes section as well.
But very specifically in thebook, what Carolyn has described
(06:28):
so eloquently, I'm going tokind of highlight it.
So what Carolyn has done is shehas chosen life.
That's one aspect.
She has reached out, she's gotmoving and she's given back.
And so what made you decide towake up one day and choose life?
(06:49):
Not that you had a choice, butwhat made you choose life and
not look in the past?
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Well, initially it was.
I have two daughters.
I had two daughters who weretwo and four years old who
required food and shelter andbasics, right.
So that was my motivation.
It's just at a very core level.
I think when you go throughtrauma, you really go from this
(07:17):
self-actualization, like we seein Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
and you go back down to thebottom, you go back to basic
sustenance, right, and you haveto rebuild a life, back up to a
self-actualization.
And so no one really explainedit to me like that in the
beginning, but I felt that Ifelt that my life crumbled right
(07:40):
.
So a big part of Right, so abig part of for me.
But motivation was simply thepeople I loved the most and the
people who needed me.
But as time went on, you knowthe motivation had to become
bigger because you the theimpact, I think, on widowhood,
(08:03):
the impact on every aspect ofyour life.
I had no idea that it was goingto obviously impact me
emotionally, mentally and alsofinancially.
But what I didn't know is howit was going to impact every
relationship I had Spiritually.
It was going to impact me allthe questions of doubt and anger
(08:24):
and fear.
I was struggling immensely fromthat, but I would say in 2006,
when I was on the Oprah show,was really the defining moment
for me, because I was seen asthis person who had it kind of
all together and I was not atall in the background of my life
(08:49):
.
I could barely get a shower, Icould barely operate, I had
adrenal fatigue.
It took everything that I coulddo to wake up every morning and
do the day, and these are thethings.
I just had no one to speak with, I had no one to even uh ask.
You know, is this normal?
And what I now know is, ofcourse, literally widowhood was
(09:12):
an all upfront attack on myhealth.
It went unidentified by thehealthcare industry.
You know, counseling can onlydo so much, but the actual
physical impact to my body waswhat I really severely
underestimated and I struggledbecause of that.
I had PTSD, undiagnosed.
You know, I was in a caraccident.
(09:33):
I was in a very bloody caraccident that was extremely
traumatizing.
So when I was on the Oprah show,she, she, really she said I was
a hero and didn't know it, andthat kind of reverberated out
(09:53):
and there were so many widowsthat saw that show and they said
can you help me be like you.
So I had to step back for asecond and go.
I don't really feel like I'm ahero.
I don't really feel like I'mthat person that Oprah just said
I was and now is like millionsof people are seeing.
But I said, what would it looklike if I was the hero of my own
(10:17):
story?
What if she's right?
And that was what really set mytrajectory at year six on a
completely different realm.
And that was when I said whatwould happen if I did become the
hero of my story?
And as I did that, I startedrealizing, you know, what makes
(10:37):
me feel alive Not just takingwhat I've learned and sharing it
with someone else because theymay need that information.
And so that's what really, youknow, I I started and and you
know it's all research backednow I I'm, you know Dr Steve's
work, the there's, you know the,the 10 key components of
(11:00):
building resilience.
The two that I needed the mostwere the two that didn't exist,
and that was the imitatingresilient role models.
I needed to find other widowslike myself and also have a
space where I could both giveand receive right, we can't just
receive, we have to give.
And so when I started givingback that just completely.
(11:23):
It was the end of the cycle ofhealing for me.
And then that continued on as Igave and, you know, actively
listened, and that is where thereal healing happens in trauma.
There's your work and thenthere's your give back.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
You eloquently described the next three phases.
So what I was hearing is thatyou didn't have necessarily a
situation where you could reachout and connect with other
survivors.
So you created your ownsituation to where you could,
and then you went a step furtherand you created this system
(12:03):
that other widows could chime inand you in and now reach out.
They didn't have to reinventthe wheel and I think that in
itself is what elevated you veryquickly from the choosing life
stage to reaching out and notnecessarily having anybody to
reach out to, but took you tothat next level of super
(12:24):
survivor.
And then the other thingsstarted falling into place.
You had to get moving.
You know you had set goals andyou know you were taking action
and taking no prisoners, as Iknow you pretty well.
And then you know giving backand you constantly give back.
And for anybody that has evermet Carolyn seen Carolyn she is
(12:47):
a firecracker in regards to thepassion she brings and the
energy for her organization andputting widows first and getting
them all kind of access andthings that they frankly deserve
and getting them all kind ofaccess and things that they
(13:08):
frankly deserve.
So I'm just and I was telling-Carolyn.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Every time that I meet with her I have to take
notes because I'm just learningso much so quickly.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So yes, you're learning.
You're learning what I call myPhD in uncommon knowledge, so I
have to take a lot of notes andCarolyn, so I'm kind of on this
journey myself about reading alot more and um, so she had, you
know, encouraged me to, youknow, read the book on
resilience, and then there'sanother edition that's coming
out, I think, in september, isthat correct?
yeah, september 11th yeah, soI've already, um, I already have
(13:42):
mine pre-ordered and I now, inturn, recommend that to some
other folks.
And there's a part on the book.
I don't have the book, or, yes,I do in front.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, I have an advanced copy of the third
edition.
You're going to love it.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I pass this on to some very dear friends.
So I have the second edition inmy hand, and so on the title
page of the book, it says everyparent, coach and organizational
leader should read this now andpass it on to those they care
about the most.
And so I'll pass this on tofolks, and so I always have a
(14:22):
method as to why I pass this on,or I'm very methodic and some
folks catch it very quickly.
And one of my dear friends, um,she was in kind of a funk or
doing something, um, on her ownand um, I sent it thinking about
this message, about, she's oneof the people that I care about
the most.
(14:42):
She lost her daughter, um, overa year ago and um, so she was
like I just read the quote onthe front.
She's like I'm one of thepeople that you care the most
about and I've known her sincehigh school and I and she and I
was like yes, you finally got it, uh, hello.
And so it was like you'repretty slow, but I said you're a
(15:07):
super survivor, um, you justdon't know it yet, um, and so I
was kind of setting her up, youknow, to be in a situation where
, um, she could be comforted and, um, you know, she reaches out
to me.
She's in kind of that reach outstage and so I recognize that
and I wanted to give her alittle bit of boost.
(15:27):
But the reason I'm sharing thatis because Carolyn shared that
with me and so now I can shareit with other people.
So thank you for that.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
You're welcome.
I really well, because DrStephen Southwick shared it with
me just in one of ourconversations and getting to
know me and understanding sortof the background and you know
he's used to working withveterans.
He's used to working withamputees and people who have had
what he had never thought aboutwidowhood as a traumatic
(15:58):
detachment experience.
And he's, you know, a renownedpsychologist.
And he's, you know, a renownedpsychologist.
So I think curious peopleconstantly are looking for new
knowledge, but also newknowledge that we can easily
pass on.
And recognizing someone as asuper survivor and actually
telling them that they are islike this beautiful million, you
(16:21):
know chain link, you know thingkind of gift of saying, hey,
have you did?
You know that you were this?
Um, because I think a lot ofpeople who give back and I have
met so many people who are doingsuch great things in nonprofits
and and you know, not, not evenin nonprofits just acts of
(16:43):
kindness and um, you know these.
You often will talk to them andthey'll say had some of the.
You know these.
You often will talk to them andthey'll say had some of the
most calm people, have had themost complex backgrounds and
they worked hard to get there.
And so when you ask someone, youknow what's your story.
I always, my goal is always toshow up, like you said, like in
(17:04):
this beautiful Barbie pink thatI have on.
People don't know, at firstglance, that I experienced a
severe trauma and tragedy in mylife and but now I'm here and
I'm the best role model that Ipossibly can be, because I live
out this research every day inmy life and that's why I'm in
(17:25):
the third edition.
I'm.
My chapter is in the survivormission section.
I'm the story that they tell.
But Survivor Mission section I'mgoing to share.
Just you don't have the book,but in the parting words it says
resilience is aboutunderstanding the difference
between fate and freedom,learning to take responsibility
(17:47):
for one's own life.
Responsibility for one's ownlife and working within your
scope of control, that's, I mean, that's really you know.
This is why the exchange ofknowledge and accomplishments,
where you see, when you mentionyou know you're a super survivor
, people just aren't told that,they're not given any awards or
(18:11):
accolades over it.
But it's wonderful in thesevery intimate conversations that
people will, like you will sayyou're a super survivor.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
It makes a difference .
It does make a difference,carolyn, I'm I'm always in awe
when I speak to you.
I appreciate you know youspending some time, and I'm
going to be spending some timewith you tomorrow.
I'm going to introduce you to agroup of women in transition,
so I'm excited about that, andyou've invited me to a couple of
(18:44):
events that you are eitherhosting or a major part of in
the next couple of months.
So I appreciate that.
Yes, is there anything elsethat you want to talk about or
brag about?
Yes, please do.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Well, two years ago we had we have a golden
committee at Modern Widows Cluband it's really.
How do we come up with brightideas of not only changing the
narrative about widows but alsocreating revenue streams,
because to find grants tosupport widows organizations is
(19:20):
extremely hard.
It's so unknown and soinvisible.
So what we did is we embarkedon writing a book, and this book
is now out on Amazon and it'scalled Legendary Widows Stories
of Legacy, and it's 12extraordinary women's stories,
(19:42):
some of them you'll know, likeCoretta Scott King or Eleanor
Roosevelt.
You know these are women thatwe know.
We don't really think of them inthe perspective of what they
did in widowhood.
There would be no King Centerwith Martin Luther King if not
for Coretta Scott King.
There would be no UN Women ifnot for Eleanor Roosevelt.
(20:05):
We look at these women'sstories, and so it's these 12
stories about women.
Know, we look at these women'sstories, and so it's these 12
stories about women, but weshare the bios.
We actually, modern Widows Club, has a book club, so we utilize
the talent that we had withinthere to write these 12 bios.
But then I write a companionpiece called More Thoughts, and
(20:27):
I talk about why this particularwoman was chosen for this book
and how she's inspired my lifeto then, of course, then pass
along and share with all thewomen in our organization, and
so it really shows, I think,what women and anyone who reads
this book will go.
Wow, I never really thoughtabout this woman's story and the
(20:51):
perspective of what sheaccomplished in widowhood, and
it's really everyone who haswritten the book so far has
gotten to the foreword andstarted crying because it was so
affirming that they have greatthings to do.
I always say a formidable womanis a terrible thing to waste,
(21:14):
and we're doing going to create,but it's out now and hopefully
every year on InternationalWidows Day, june 23rd, we'll
(21:36):
have one of these in the series,and so it's this one.
The next one we're doing isStories of Strength, and I was
really grateful to Paul Chavezfrom the Cesar Chavez Foundation
.
Oh, wow, okay, he wrote theintroduction and he talks about
his mother, helen Fabella Chavez, and this book is actually now
(21:57):
going to be in the Cesar ChavezNational Monument Bookstore.
Wow know, you know what happenswhen you go back, and Paul
Chauvet said he was so gratefulbecause his you know, people
always said, people always saythat you know every great man,
you know there's a great womanbehind him and he was like let
(22:20):
me make it clear my mom neverstood behind my dad.
She always stood next to him orsometimes ahead of him, and so
we need to give these women therecognition for what they, how
they have contributed to thegood that exists in the world
today.
So I'm really excited aboutthis book because it's it's been
(22:43):
a two year passion project forme and it's been taken a big
team and big investing and andit's available and 100% of the
proceeds come back to ModernWidows Club.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Awesome.
Can you repeat the title of thebook again?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Yeah, it's called Legendary Widows Stories of
Legacy.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Got it.
I'm going to make sure I havethat in the notes, as I am also
taking notes.
Thank you, awesomeCongratulations, thank you.
Thank you, awesomeCongratulations, thank you.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Is there anything else that I missed, Carolyn, or
anything else you're going toforce me to take notes on?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
No, I don't think that's it All right.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
You can find Carolyn at themodernwidowscluborg and
again, I will put a link to herorganization and also a link to
be able to purchase the book.
Uh, with the notes section onthis podcast.
Carolyn, I'm a grateful for allthe tutelage you give me.
(23:43):
Um, you are a book of wisdomand um, I appreciate learning
from you every time that we meet.
So, and I will see you tomorrow, yeah, that's right, thank you,
yeah, I'm excited.
So for anyone that's listening,thank you, Appreciate all the
listeners and please feel freeto pass this podcast on to any
(24:06):
of your friends, family membersor colleagues.
And please remember you canalso support the show so I can
continue doing great things forother people and supporting very
, very good organizations.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
Thanks for listening to our podcast.
If you are a client and arelooking to work directly with
Chris and or our firm, head onover to Life After Grief FP.
That is Life After Grief FP.
The FP is for financialplanning.
If you are an advisor lookingto emotionally and financially
work with your client in grief,or if you are a client looking
(24:43):
to get your advisor's head inthe game, head on over to
lifeaftergriefconsultingcom.
That islifeaftergriefconsultingcom.
Any related informationreferenced in this week's
podcast will be located here inthe podcast section.
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