JERRY AND JOE MADE | FEAT . BLACK DENIRO | RTM PODCAST EP.20 - Realer Than Most Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Really the Moose.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Podcast I'm Rilla, I'm.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Outta World Cash.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm White Boy D2A and it's the Rilla the Most Podcast
Today.
We got family in the building.
Man Facts.
You already know so like WhiteBoy, you know how we acting with
family in the building.
Man Facts you already know.
So, like white boy, you knowhow we acting with family in the
building.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Lucasa sucasa.
This guy we got sitting herewith us right now.
Man, you can look into yourfavorite artist catalog and you
gonna see him on there.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
I don't know if you even look into the movies.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
You see him out there .
There's a lot, there's a lot, alot and, like I said, just a
class at you know, just a quicksummary of a legend, a legend in
the city.
Yeah, a pioneer, yeah, one, oneof our, one of our selfless,

(01:31):
most selfless ex in the city.
You know I'm saying when youcome to like giving chances and
giving giving lanes and thingslike that.
You know, I'm saying he got tobe top three, top two and he not
two.
You feel me Things like that.
So you know Uptown my Uptownbrother, you know Uptown Uptown

(01:52):
in the building F-A-A-A-A.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Real gentleman.
You already know how you seethat.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
You already know what it is.
We got.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
Black De Niro in the building, y'all.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
Black in the building .
Y'all Look, look, look, y'allwhat?

Speaker 2 (02:10):
y'all don't know the people that's watching.
His man is on the board or thecell Facts.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Facts.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Facts no man.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Long time friend OG Beach.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
We got.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Oak on the board, man .
This one of them, ones righthere, man, how you feeling Cash?
Yeah, before we get into, youknow we be getting into y'all
know our thing, we ask eachother how we feeling and
everything.
I feel great, man.
It's just a lot going on rightnow.

(02:45):
Right now, yeah, you know whatI'm saying.
We really try and get this,this rtm thing, up and running
efficiently as possible, and youknow we're professional we grow
, we growing at a great rate.
so I feel good about that and,you know, let's just keep the
ball rolling.
I mean no, no question, that'sall.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
How you feeling white boy.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I feel good, man.
I got Black De Niro sittingnext to me.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
You know what to do Hell yeah, man, that was real,
that was real, hell yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
There ain't too many people that get to do this.
They don't even do too muchinterviews and shit.
You know what I'm saying, evendo too much interviews and, like
you know what I'm saying, Idon't be sitting down with it's
an honor that, I'm saying, besitting next to this and then,
like you know, technicaldifficulties he came right back.
I respect that, bro.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Yeah, for real though um, I'm feeling like, uh,
sheesh, I don't even know, man,I ain't got no special words for
y'all today, but only thing Ican really say, like I just want
to work.
You know what I mean?
Get it.
I just want to work, I want togrind and I want to be

(03:54):
professional as we grinding too.
Man, I want to get it.

Speaker 3 (03:57):

Speaker 2 (03:58):
There's a lot of fill to cover.
Out there, right, you out there, right?
Yeah, I mean my shoes is.
I'm ready to run, I'm ready togo, I'm ready to work.
That's it.
They tied up.
My boots is tied, my forces?

Speaker 3 (04:11):
is laced.
Whatever you want to say, let'sget it how you want to start
this off white boy oh, how blackyou already know we know how
black blessed that's where hewas going, you know what I'm
saying.
That's his line.
That's it.
I'm blessed.
That covers it all.
Yes, it do yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yes, it do.
Yeah, All right, man, y'allknow how we start.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
How we gonna do this, white boy.

Speaker 3 (04:33):
All right.
So you know, up here we do ourdue diligence, up here at
Relative Moose.
Now, you know, we know, but youknow we're going to let the
world know where you from.
But up to OK, ok, growing upuptown right, it's like, it's
different because, likePhiladelphia, a hard place to

(04:54):
grow up in.
Now, man, and growing up, we behaving influences and they
don't be like the people we seeright on TV.
They be the people that be likeeven in our house or right
outside our door.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Give me a few of them I had none you had none no, I
had no influences like peoplethat influenced me, uh, like
neighborhood wise or streetwise.
Okay, you know what I'm saying.
I never, I'm not really ainfluence idol type person yeah,

(05:29):
you never really had no idolsand I never really had no body
really influenced me I hadpeople inspired me right give me
a few of them, oh one, if it isI mean if it was, if it was
somebody, that inspired me itwas something, it was like a

(05:50):
entertainer or a celebrity,something like that.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Okay, like like a muhammad ali okay, okay, okay
really for inspiration so you,you're a leader, you, yeah, I
make your own.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
I got a song I never had an idol dang okay, it go
that deep.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
I ain't, I ain't know that, I ain't know that I know
you had a song that I ain't know, that hey yo black is
undefeated.
I don't got no idols no, that'scrazy, though, because you know
like so wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
Black, you do a lot of shit.
I wrote stuff.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
Can I fix it?
Can I catch it?
Yeah, we got the ball rolling.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
I got to catch it Black.
You do a lot of stuff, man, solike for you to say that that
like cut card deep there.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
Like you said, you don't have an idol, so nobody
never inspired you as a young Ididn't say that oh all right I
said yeah, he said, people gaveme inspiration oh yeah, okay you
know I'm saying that I, butit's that's for you too okay you
know, I'm saying, but not I, I,I don't, nobody.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
So growing up, growing up without me.
So basically growing up and andmaking your own path and
building your own lane.
Like, how was that?
Like, how did you know you hadto be a leader early on?
Like, was you put in positionto be a leader early on?
Like, how was your householdwhere, as though?

Speaker 4 (07:23):
like I, don't think, you know, I think it's just
something that come about okay,you know what I'm saying.
Like I think it's always one inthe family that, or sometimes
that just be like the one whostand out in certain things,
whether it's the athlete, therapper, the entrepreneur,
whatever you know what?
I'm saying Entrepreneur,whatever.
So I think it was.

(07:43):
I'm the oldest boy out of three.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
So you know, I just was always.
I always had hustle in me.
So for that point, you knowwhat I mean.
When we was young, with no foodin the crib and no heat, I just
knew how to hustle.
So that was my natural instinctto grind.
Okay, you know what I'm sayingCollecting cans, washing cars,

(08:08):
cars bagging, groceries,whatever right you feel what I'm
saying.
So I think you just become thatleader by leading, if that
makes sense.
And I'm saying you don't say Iget it like you know what?
I'm gonna be the leader, I'mgonna lead this family and I'm
gonna lead this team and I'mgonna lead these people around
me.
Yeah, you, just it fall intoplace, sometimes you don't know
it, to you be in the positionlike I mentioned muhammad ali.
He didn't know who he was.
He didn't know he was thatgreat till his bike got stolen

(08:30):
okay went to the gym and wantedto learn how to fight, but he
already had it in him.
Right, right, right.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
I don't think I knew okay, okay, yeah, I get that.
So, coming up making your ownlane and all that, what were um
a few of your influences so far?
As, like, music wise, like, didyou always listen to hip-hop?
Was hip-hop always?

Speaker 4 (08:51):
in.
You r b hip-hop music.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Yeah, how old like just grow up, just coming up
take me back.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
Oh, big daddy, kane coogee rap, kujirap Run DMC.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
Rock.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Kim Big L.
I'ma go back that far damn youknow what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Big Daddy Kane, was that nigga bro?
Yeah, i'ma leave it there damn,it's a lot, i'ma leave it there
from when I was growing up.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
Right, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (09:20):
R&B Bobby Brown, yeah they some heavy, they some
heavy people yeah, come up offof it.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yeah, hell, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, hell yeah
.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
So.
So with those influences, didyou uh have like a spark and you
wear as though like you alwaysknew, damn.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah, that was from now.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
So all right, so all right.
So we did to like this, likeprobably like what Middle school
, high school or it was early on.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
Yeah, it was middle school.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Middle school?
Yeah, all right.
So you know like being asthough a lot of people like know
who you are not even like musmusically, just in certain
neighborhoods, and like I wantto touch on that.
So like when you was in likemiddle school, high school, what

(10:16):
years are we talking about?

Speaker 4 (10:19):
Middle school.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
What era?
Is it 89.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
Yeah, 89.
Middle school, 89 middle school, junior high school.
Middle school was like what'smiddle school you?

Speaker 1 (10:42):
like that.
You definitely did 12.
80s, 80s, 12, 12, 12, 13.
No, no, you sure like 12.
, 12, 13.
Yeah, that's like seven.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
I thought, it was junior high.

Speaker 4 (10:46):
So when is junior high?
How?

Speaker 3 (10:47):
old, is 14?
No, I dream that's all the same.
We was doing junior high andmiddle school the same shit was
that.
That's the same.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
You say that no, we had a junior high school.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
I know, you talk about.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
We had a junior high school.
What is?

Speaker 3 (11:02):
he talking grade.
He asked me you said us, I'mold.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
What grade would junior high school be, though?
Sixth grade and up?
I'm going to say I was from 12.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
I was from 11 to 12, somewhere like that.
That's middle school.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
All right.
So basically late 80s, early90s, so in that time in
Philadelphia, how was it?

Speaker 4 (11:23):
I wasn't in Philadelphia.
Until I didn't come back toPhiladelphia, I was in foster
care for two years.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
And it wasn't in Philly.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
No, I was in eastern Pennsylvania.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Okay, okay, let's talk about that, how you ended
up in foster care Crack epidemicRight I mean the first time
people touched crack like forthe first time I was around then
.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
You know what I'm saying, so you know it tore the
family up, right?
You know I'm saying the aunts,the moms, the uncles, all that
you feel I'm saying, right.
So we went to dhs and thenthat's how we ended up in foster
care for, for like how y'alllearned back up my mom.
Well, my mom got herself right,took my two brothers and my

(12:06):
little sister back down southbecause she was from down south
carolina.
But I moved uptown.
I stayed with my aunt uptown.
I don't like it down south.
Right shout out down south, butI don't.
I didn't like the pace of downsouth at that time.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Slow, yeah, it was too slow yeah, and how did you
feel about being in thatsituation while you was in it?

Speaker 4 (12:31):
at first, at first um being in that situation was
crazy because you don't knowwhere you're going.
You don't even know what's up.
Still young, so you don't knowwhat's up with it, why you, you
know I mean being taken awayfrom your mom or whatever.
So we was like real rebellious.
But then I landed with a goodfoster family, you know, I mean
richard, level the levels, and Iended up working for larry
holmes.
So that was a good experience.
I told you I was there whenlarry fought mike tyson.

(12:52):
He was in the office after hefought mike yeah, I used to
sweep his office and clean hisoffice and stuff that's, that's
some fire.
That's crazy I didn't even wantto leave foster care.
It was a debate.
When my aunt came to get me Ididn't know if I wanted to leave
or or stay so you got thatcomfortable with it.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
I love my foster family.

Speaker 4 (13:12):
I still talk to him to this day then that's fire
yeah so so are you.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
You come back to philly at a certain age 14 14,
and how?
How was it like?
How was like, how was it here?
Like, like, compared to like,not compared to now?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
it was faster of course, right.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Well, it wasn't that long because I was only like
almost 13 or or just turning 13,went in foster care and got out
when I was almost 15.
So I was down north philly thewhole time off of 28th and
Lehigh so I only went away for alittle bit right.
So when I came back and moveduptown.
It just looked different to mebecause I'm used to.

(13:53):
When I'm going back to PhillyI'm thinking I'm going back to
step, step, step street you knowI'm saying you go back, it's
uptown sun porch step, step,step.
Yeah, walk away, step, step,step yeah damn near expressway
street you know what I'm saying.
I wasn't used to that at thattime.
I used to go visit up there alittle bit, but that's where I
thought I was going back to Likeno Philly type roots.

(14:15):
So it wasn't too much different, it's just.
I was just, I didn't likenobody up there at first.
I had that perception of uptowntoo at first.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Because I just thought everybody had a silver
spoon.
So I get it when people portrayus like that in that sense at
times.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
What they used to.

Speaker 4 (14:31):
I'm pretty sure they don't do that now.
You got to be a fool.
You changed that.
You made that different.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
You made that the reason.
That is no.
No, I didn't.
You helped I'm talking about tothe yeah, to the public, so you
.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
So you real.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
One thing about you is like I know, this is White
boy crazy.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
Like I said, hold on.
Niggas weren't really wavingHold up Niggas weren't.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Niggas weren't openly saying All this shit going on
out here.
You talking about black.
You know what I mean Black likeNiggas, weren't?

Speaker 3 (15:03):
openly saying they from uptown and be like I'm from
uptown.
Yeah, I would say, I would dothat.
You know what?

Speaker 4 (15:07):
I mean yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Black was the first person to really be like nigga.
I'm from uptown F-A to be exact.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Like I ain't.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, it definitely was like my man, it definitely
was a you take somebody fromSouth Philly up uptown, they not
gonna be able to find.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
Well, you take somebody up there and drop them
off.
They ain't going nowhere.
I mean, now they can, but youknow, that's my thing, yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
When you was doing your starting your career off.
It wasn't easy to go up thereand just be like.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Hell no.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yeah.
So like I notice now that youreal big on like family, like
even with people knowing you,like your brothers and your
family.
You real family oriented andreally stand for something when
it come to family.
So how was you able to likeupkeep that and and and be on

(16:03):
that when you went through thewhole foster care thing?
Is it like because they waslike behind you when you was, or
like how you was able to obtainthat?

Speaker 4 (16:13):
that's always big.
On family, though, we had asmall family, so it was like my
aunt, my aunt, my aunt lois,rest in peace.
My aunt lois, she, her, arelike.
We was raised like sisters andbrothers more so opposed to
cousins.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
And your aunt, that's your mom's sister.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
Yeah, okay, so it was us and my brothers and sisters.
That was like my.
First cousins, right that thecore of the family, even though
we got other family down southand stuff like that.
So we was always tight.
So family always meantsomething to us.
We had, we got people in ourfamily that do nuts stuff and
that crazy and stuff like that,but we never did all of us.

(16:51):
So you know, I'm saying it wasalways me and my brothers and it
was always important.
So even when I was outside inthe streets doing my thing, I
always got with my cousins orgot with my brothers.
Well, we was always togetheranyway.
We always did something.
That's never changed with us.
It was nothing that I had tostart doing, like yeah, man, now

(17:12):
I just start spending time withmy family.
Like no, we always did that,broke money in jail, hurting
shot up.
Whatever was going on, we wasalways there.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, so it was tight .
So all right bet.
So come back to philly.
You know I'm saying what's this?

Speaker 4 (17:29):
the early 90s yeah, it's 91, 90, 91.
Yeah, like 91 91, I think I wasin there from like 88 to 89 90.
I came in the middle of 90 90,.
I came back to Philly.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Okay, so you wasn't doing like the whole street
thing, wasn't even in there, allright, so you know, through
foster care, crack epidemic,doing what it did to your family
through the foster care.
Now when is it the point where,like, because you started off
early, you know, with the wholelike being in the streets thing,

(18:06):
what transpired, what was thething that happened for you to
like get involved in certainthings in the streets or like,
was it just you was just aproduct of your environment,
that type of Basically.

Speaker 4 (18:21):
I mean, I still had a chip on my shoulder when I came
home.
So uptown you know what I'msaying like, like I said, I'm
used to being down north wherewe was fighting every day and so
when you came back from fostercare.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
I was uptown sticking up robbing them for their
walkmans and stuff like thatthat's how I just started.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Yeah, that's how I started doing stuff like that
and trying to fight and reallywant to fight up there like that
, like I said, it was a fightingthing, angry because I was,
that'd be trauma, though.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah, you know what?

Speaker 4 (18:51):
I'm saying that'd be like yeah I'm still living in
survival mode.
I didn't even want to leave hisfoster family so they ain't mad
at that, other stuff, a lot ofthings going on so, but I didn't
really start.
I was always me, but I wasnever like doing nothing in the
streets until I was probablylike 18, 19.
I ain't.

(19:11):
I ain't had no juvenile casesor none of that yeah, so all
right.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
So you, so you, it was just a urging, you type of
drawing just to, and you justwas just being around.
OK, ok.
So like this, this, this, whereI wanted to get to, before I
even get to, you know the stuff,everybody know because we got
to walk it down a certain way.
So For us, if me, it's just,it's just known for having a

(19:45):
certain you know, like structure, structure, protocol, yeah,
managed well, like as aneighborhood, like from any way
you want to put it, even if it'slike when you go there, or just
the name, what type of namey'all got?
So I wanted to ask you like howand it's not no get down

(20:11):
question, but it's like how, howdid y'all do things when it was
like, did y'all had to prove tocertain people y'all was
capable?
Or it was just like a you inthe neighborhood people see you,
oh, he lived here for oh, theny'all just meet Like how'd that
go down?

Speaker 4 (20:28):
The one thing about Forest Avenue.
Then at that time when I firstgot around there, I just watched
the unity.
They all had love for eachother.
It was like, and it was like itwas love, but it was still
because they was doing theirstreet thing, so it was still
like protocol and I guess youcould say damn near ranks when,

(20:52):
I was around there.
So you did have to be like itwasn't.
No, yes, man, you couldn't bejust a part of Forest Avenue at
that time.
This was like 91.
And I'm just looking andobserving who everybody is and
knowing who is who, and it wasjust something that I saw that I
liked.
I'm like damn, these dudes islike tight you know, I'm saying

(21:13):
so, that it was, yeah, youcouldn't just just be a part of
it.
I had to work my way into beingthere, just being myself,
though.
Yeah, you know I'm saying notlike how other people do it.
I had to work my way into beingthere, just being myself,
though.
Not like how other people do it, like you got to go commit this
act and all that, like no, it'sjust like if something
happening, if somebody rumblingI don't even know all these

(21:34):
niggas, I know one or two ofthem I'm jumping in.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Other things, I'm doing that with you when your
aunt came to get you and thenyou came back and went to uptown
and hold the whole forest where?
Where was your mom and dad atthat time?

Speaker 4 (21:52):
I don't know where my dad was at at the point.
At that point I ain't with mydad till I was like 18.
My mom was down south.
My mom took my brothers downsouth, so it was just me and my
aunt you know what I'm sayingand my uncle.
Okay, okay, okay, so it waslike just me and my dad, my only
child.
My cousin used to live there.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
So you was uptown for high school.
What high school did you go?
To King King.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
But I went to King when it was like lean on me,
king.
No, explain that no, explain,explain it.
I know what you're talkingabout.
Go ahead, talk about it likewhen you can.
I I took a gun to school, alittle 25.
You can get robbed in thestairway, be gambled in the
hallways, radio smoking in thebathroom, smoking walking king
was bad.

(22:38):
It wasn't like that when Iinitially got there, maybe
around 92 ish.
It started getting like that In93,.
It was crazy.
We had over 1,000 ninth gradersand then Eastside used to run
the damn school because theywere so deep and it was right
there in their neighborhood, sopeople used to leave the door
open and all their homies usedto come in, everybody gambling

(22:59):
in the bathrooms and stuff likethat.
But I got my respect fromForest Avenue too, from rumbling
niggas from Eastside and otherplaces, like any neighborhood
you was from.
I didn't care where you was fromand that's how they paid
attention to that Some of thepeople that my man, ant that
gave me the name Black, fromForest Avenue, was paying
attention to how I was carryingit in school, cause I used to

(23:19):
hang with Nicetown.
I used to be on hick street, Iused to leave king and go to and
go to forest avenue at first, Iused to go down hick street and
be down there.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Oh, okay, okay.
So before forest avenue it washere, it was hick street.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Yeah, let me uh ask you something.
Your man named you black.
Why he named?

Speaker 4 (23:39):
you black.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
He just started introducing me like that and I
was like bro, stop calling methat introducing me as black oh,
it's my man black, and I'm like, bro, stop calling me that.
Introducing me as black oh,it's my man black, and I'm like
crazy man.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
Then after a while I used to be really upset about it
at first and then after a whileit just just stayed so so you
might as well, just tell us howyou.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
While we on that, you might as well just tell us how
you got De Niro De.

Speaker 4 (24:02):
Niro came way later on down the line.
He started calling me black in91, and I ain't accepted until
almost 92.
And I was just like all right,just call me black.
And then in 99, he came out andRobert De Niro was one of my
favorite actors so I justcombined it.

Speaker 1 (24:22):
Okay, okay, Damn, that's a whole.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Okay, so all right man, let's get into it man.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
We going to get into it.
So middle school, high school,you know.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
High school was crazy .

Speaker 1 (24:36):
High school was crazy .
Lean On Me, king, all that,yeah, I was kicked out and all
that.
For real.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Mm-hmm.
We had a principal named MrJones and Mr Minastri.
They took us on stage andkicked us all out, just like on.
Lean On Me, dang.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
Tell me if I'm speeding bro.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
When you write your first rap.
That was easy to get right intothat.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
You was 10?
Yeah, I was like 10.
When you start feeling yourself, though, like as an artist when
you start recording.

Speaker 3 (25:01):
Yeah, like that though, like as an artist, when
you start recording, yeah likethat.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
I don't remember when I started recording.
I really wish I could rememberthe first time I ever recorded.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
So you recorded you was recording before that off
the hook shit yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
God damn, Hell you speed.

Speaker 2 (25:16):
You speed, hell you speed, I don't know when.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
I started recording.
Like the trunk popped open.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
No, he was there, though I wanted the no no no,
he's doing it, white boy, hejust wrapped it right.
All right, all right, he justsaid it.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
Yeah, he just said walk because all right, so so,
so middle school, so middleschool, high school you been was
rapping.
Yeah, first, first rap was 10.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
the rat was rap.
When I really started likefeeling myself was like 14, 15.
Okay, so so was there anybattles?
No, not at that, not at thatpoint, like you never had to go
head to head.
Yeah, I had to battle a lot.
I never battled there like atthat.
At that point I used to go toking and just rap and people
just like to hear you rap atthat point, if you can rap like

(26:04):
right, everybody, just be around, you'd be loved.
You know what I'm saying whenyou're rapping.
And then we started battling.
I started battling like peoplein the hood, but our battles was
like the way we battle inphilly yeah, I know schemes and
angles and all that.
We just rap whoever got thebest rap.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
You know what I'm saying, and yeah, let's talk
about this, and this might tellyour age, and I don't care.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
I already should know .

Speaker 2 (26:26):
I said Bobby Brown, look, we talk about when you
first went in the studio, right,I know you probably don't
remember the song or the rap andwhen you first recorded it.
But how was the recordingprocess Like?
Because it's not the same.
It can't be no.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
I think the I think the very first person I probably
recorded with was my man, TedLive.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
We was in the in the basement.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
We had tapes, though that's what I was going to say
Was it tapes?

Speaker 3 (26:55):
We had tapes.
Yeah, it was no CDs, yet theyhad the recording one time what
you talking about tapes.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Tell them, break it down you got to know your rap.
You was able to punch your.
It's like know your song bro.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
Yeah, you was able to punch it.
We just had tapes.
We didn't have your record.
Your joint was on the tape.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Break it down.
How you had to go in there,though, break it down, let him
know.

Speaker 4 (27:13):
We ain't had no booth or nothing, we just rapped.
We just rapped, had the tape.
Would have to like if he had nonew tape, like the tapes came
in the joint, then he used tohave to take an old tape.
Put some tissue in the top ofthe joints.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Put some scotch tape over the joint and duplicate the
joints.
Yeah, look at this.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Sound like some caveman, like which I was like
bro everybody in the house wasdoing that like that already
with the two tape, john, you gotthat one, john.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I had a radio with the two tape, john.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
You got the beat playing on one, john.

Speaker 4 (27:46):
And then we started.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Bro, you would have loved these songs though I don't
even remember when CDs cameabout really.
You don't know when CDs cameabout.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Damn.
No, I forgot.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
So hold on All right, all right, that's funny, all
right so when did you like?
All right, this is what, beforeI introduce the thing that I
want to introduce.
When did you decide you goingto take rap seriously, like when

(28:17):
?

Speaker 4 (28:17):
you like.
This is really what I'm goingto do.
It's two steps of me taking rapserious.
One was I was rapping, rapping,just meeting everybody.
Um, I met my man tarik, mustafadoc holidays.
This team called illegalbusinessman from chewing shelton
and he was like crazy, crazyand I bumped into him in school

(28:40):
and he was so fired.
I'm like damn, because I wasarrogant, because I was like
trashing everybody in the schoolexcept him.
I'm like damn.
So I'm rapping for a while andI was happy about rapping but I
didn't know nothing aboutnothing, no business.
I didn't know, how to count bars, none of that.
So I'm just rapping just to be,because it's the thing to do
and it felt good.
So I started trying to take rapserious.

(29:02):
I started trying to take rapserious a little bit when I
first met my man M with Off theHook Entertainment.
That's when I started taking itserious a little bit, Because
then I felt like I had somebodyto back the play, right Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
What you do so extravagant for him to even
y'all to put the bag to play andall that.

Speaker 4 (29:25):
I just rapped for him .
That was in 99.
I had just changed my name in99 and then I met him like three
months later.
Two months, two, three monthslater.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
And you were Black, de Niro, at that time.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
I just turned myself Black De Niro and then my man,
his cousin, took me up to himand I rapped for him and that
was it, and I was the secondmember of Off the Hook
Entertainment.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
So for those of y'all don't know, because that's how
I heard a black man- for you,for those of y'all who don't
know, and I know some of y'alldon't know, because I just found
out, because you damn nearjoined it the year I was born.
So off the hook entertainment.
Shout out, meech, it's basic M3.

(30:14):
Oh yeah, I can Lil T.
Everybody Shout out everybody.
Black De Niro, and I always seethis being from Uptown.
You linking with them evenshows how more of an active
person you was back then.
But Off the Hook Entertainmentis a South Philly-based group

(30:37):
slash record label that wasfounded in the late 90s.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
Yeah, we didn't even last long.
We just made a quick impact andthen slid and big south philly
impact crazy.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Uh, black de niro got down with them.
Meech was a part of them.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Uh, oh man they had a lot going on, man.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
The artists y'all know now was definitely making
songs with them, man from, oh no, from did he was part of it,
from people that was on stateproperty and also.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Gilly from the figures man.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
They was in that mix.
At that time, oskeno firstpiece song ever was Off the Hook
Black Dinero.
Oskeno M3.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
First time I met Gilly, he did a song with M3.
We was all there, yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
So so.
So yeah, it was so fully based.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
But then we had Cyphers after that.
That's how Gil and them startedknowing me.
I had just had a herniaoperation and we was all rapping
Gil, dutch, bianca, me and thewhole off the hook and everybody
ran out of gas and off the hookand I'm sitting down still
going crazy how that went.
That's how me and gil got tight.
That was crazy.
That's how me and oskino gottight right.

(31:48):
It was a legal business man.
It was off the hookentertainment everybody rap on
that side and everybody run outof gas except oh or maybe go bra
and speed and then the onlypeople, the person that didn't
run out of gas over here was me.
Yeah, and that's how me and Oexchanged numbers.
So who's 99.
Yeah, who was the first memberoff the hook?

(32:10):
M3.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
M3.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
M3.

Speaker 4 (32:13):
Shout out to my guy M didn't have that.
He had that voice and thatcharisma, but he didn't have
that.
I was from the street, yeah, soI was talking crazy.
Yeah, so I was talking crazy.
Yeah, and I had rats for days,yeah, so that's how I ended up.
That's how I said anything playball and you play ball, you're
gonna link up with the guy thatcan play ball, you botch, you
rap yeah, you know what?
I'm saying people just act likeI didn't earn my spot in rap man

(32:36):
.
I don't know why some people do, but they know what's up.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yeah, you had a single.
You had a single track on thewhole tape.
I remember you had like a yourown single on the whole, off the
hook drawing.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
It was like now you and them three back.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
It was like both of y'all back to back on that on
them tracks.
Yeah, uh, shout out toeverybody from off the hook, man
, yeah, so give him a round ofapplause you guys gotta explain
to us how that was, though.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
What Off the hook?
I mean like y'all made a bigimpact.
Man, like I just want to know,like Especially from my heard I
didn't stay around.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
I'm only on like the first.
It's two tapes, right, yeah,but I'm only.
I'm on like out of 17,.
I'm on like 15 of the firsttape.
Then other things started toinspire double cd the next one,
I wasn't.
I was on that, john, like threetimes I was.
I was going, but I was out oftown by then.
I did why you?

Speaker 1 (33:35):
why you get up out of there?

Speaker 4 (33:37):
man listen, we was really.
We was rapping for real.
I started rapping for real.
Yeah, that was it Like I wasn'treally there, so then after
that it was like done yeah.
You know, what I'm saying.
By that time I'm back uptownjust doing making my own mark.
I brought out a joint calledWord on the Streets.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
I'm hot With like five drinks on it and I'm just
getting my money doing my thingthing up there yeah, yeah, yeah,
and I ain't gonna lie like it's, it's beautiful, man, that uh,
like you can even sit here andtalk about like mid late 90s,
like, feel me, and I was aboutto say the same- thing I was

(34:16):
about to say listen, don't getit when people, when I talk in
interviews and people, becauseI'm never going to try and be
portraying something that I'mnot right.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
So when people do interviews they be trying not to
show their age.
I love showing my age.
I love showing my age because Idone been in the most traumatic
situations ever and I could havedied over a gillion times.
I done been in so many roomswhere bullets start flying.
I done been in so manyshootouts.
I done been shot.
I done been upstate cfcf dc,all upstate road.

(34:48):
It's like the the situationsthat I've been in in my life and
I had money on my head twice bythe one of the top dogs in in
philly.
Like so many things that I'vedone, it's that's one that's of
many reasons to be blessed tostill be here.
The other reasons is I got tosee things you feel what I'm
saying that a lot of peoplewon't get to see like.

(35:09):
I just watched something onyoutube today with his dude
turned 114 years old.
He said he got to see the firstcar.
It was no cars, no airplanes.
He got to see all that.
To me that's crazy.
That's that's amazing to me.
I got to see kids jumping rope,playing hopscotchotch jacks
high and go seek freeze taggames that we played, the things
that we did.
There's none of that, no more.
I seen new dances come.

(35:30):
When you got a pair of Adidasand shell tops, you was dead.
What Now?
It's just like if you go getsome Adidas, you just got some.
You feel what I'm saying.
So I watch a lot of things comeinto play.
I watch a lot of trends comeand go.
I watch it come back around theflat tops, the dreads the locks
.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I watch it.

Speaker 4 (35:48):
Come back around, the , the flat tops, the cuts in
your eyebrows, all that I watchcome back around.
We have break, dancing, popping, things that they don't have no
more.
You know, I'm saying I watch, Ihad good music, we had good
music, good, good rap.
Listen, I just seen a lot ofthings Kids played.
A lot of kids was kids, whereasthough they not like that.

(36:11):
So I seen so much man I love it, and there's so many people
that's dead and gone and in jailthat I grew up with.
Bro, like man, listen, it'scrazy, I can't even count it.
So it's like you know what Imean.
Man, listen, it's crazy, Ican't even count it.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
So it's like that's, that's that's.

Speaker 4 (36:29):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
I'm happy to be my age.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
I love every bit of it.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
So now you hold on, make sure we share, like,
subscribe, comment, and if youdon't, you're a motherfucking
hater Wow, Because it's freey'all you already know, man.
And look, we just got finishedtalking about Black being with
Off the Hook Entertainment,moving on out of there and

(36:59):
getting into a story abouteverything he's been through.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
So, white boy, where we going at from here?
So you back up your way, youstart making your own name and
now you putting out soloprojects.
Now it's time to really write.
Now it's time to really pickthese beats.
Now, what's your record processnow?

Speaker 4 (37:19):
It was already time to really write.
When I met Siegel OK in ninety,nine, like that's when it was
really time to really rap.
When I met seagull okay in 99,like that's when it was really
time to rap.
When I bumped into him andnikki flowers and ricey and
murder mill, that's when I knewit was time to rap, rap, like
you know what I'm saying.
And they, the, they, the guysthat and gill I ain't gonna lie

(37:41):
and gill.
Those are the guys that made mesay hold on, like yeah, you
ain't gonna play with me, right?
And then I'm just rapping.
I'm up there by myself rappingand then I end up going to bat
cave before it was bat cave.
Boom, yeah, boom, linking upwith rug.
Shout out to rugg, yeah shoutout rugg rugginess that this.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
That's when the recording process was crazy then
because it was more experienced.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Rug knew a lot.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
Yeah, rug knew how to put everything on what you was
doing.
You know, what I'm saying, andthat's when it wasn't even no
name.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Nobody else had that sauce that Rug had on a
recording.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
With you getting into the Batcave and you recording
in there and by that being oneof the hottest studios in the
city and Rug being one of thebest engineers and producers in
the city.
You got the likes of Garci,Meek Mill, Mike Knox, Ready,

(38:39):
Ready Rock, Preem it's just likeillustrious list of rappers out
of the city, in and out, in andout, in and out Gilly.
So just tell me how that wasjust being able to see those
guys on a daily basis, theyworking on something you be able
to get on or you working onsomething you know they getting

(39:02):
on Talk about that.

Speaker 4 (39:04):
First it wasn't a lot of people at first.
It was like gill was alwaysaround.
The main one I told y'allbefore the back here was was
named, was called, and rug wasain't even had no name for it.
He was about to call itinsomnia and then gill looked
around and was like that's adumb name, you know I'm saying

(39:25):
you need to call it somethinglike the bat cave.
That's how the bat cave cameabout.
Yeah, you know I'm saying so.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
It wasn't so gil named the bat cave.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
Gil named the bat cave.
That's how.
That's how the bat cave cameabout.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
And then I was just in there all the time rapping
and rap.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
But at this point I know gil, but I don't so we
don't really we see each otherevery day.
You feel I'm saying because itwas before you even got to 10th
and Shelton.
It was somewhere else at firstI forgot the other place.
It was before 10th and Shelton.
By 10th and Shelton weacquainted okay you know I'm
saying okay and he just be likeyo, you, you be having some,
some shit.
I mean, hop on something.

(40:02):
That's when he got on supermanremix, yeah, yeah, but before
that it was just like up untilthat point was superman your
biggest record yeah, it was.
It was because it was more itwas commercial, and it was more
it reached more people.
So I would shout out the rug.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Rug did that though, too yeah, how was that
developing your relationshipwith Kev?

Speaker 4 (40:26):
That's how I met Kev Superman.
Yeah, he called me or whateverand started playing Superman or
whatever on the radio.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
So wait, what year was Superman?
Oh?

Speaker 4 (40:39):
five.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Why you speeding like that?
Yo when oh?

Speaker 4 (40:43):
five Yo.
Oh, because I said 05?

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, superheroes 05.
We kicked back five years.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
Oh, all right, all right, all right, All right, all
right all right, All rightSpeeds.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
He brought up Superman.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Oh, all right, all right, so hold on right.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
I asked him, was that his biggest record to date?
That's it, oh all All right.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
So look right, All right.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
So after all kiddo after off the hook.
No, because you are sittingback.
You are laid back.
Get right, baby.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Because you said Kev, you said we was not we over
here.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
All right, so we over here.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
So after off the hook Right Right.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
When he said you, the solo projects and everything.
After that was it like afteryou got off the hook thing, was
it like slow for you?
Or it was like now you just gotthe name, you just running now.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
It was never slow because the answer to the other
part of the question I justremembered I didn't take rap
serious the whole time I wasrapping.
I didn't take rap serious untilthe tail end and I felt like it
was almost too late and I gotto get it now.
But the whole time I wasrapping when y'all was hearing
me, the whole time duringBatcave days, even when they was
on the radio, the whole time Iwas on Power 99 doing the
come-up show.

(42:01):
The whole time I was rappingand on the radio, rap bashing
and everything that I was doing.
I was just having fun.
I wasn't taking none, I justknew I was going to rap and the
world was going to like and I doit for the world because the
fake gonna follow.
That was it.
I was just having fun.
I wasn't taking it serious toget no deal because I my money
was already straight, so Ididn't really care I wasn't

(42:23):
taking it serious at all, bro.
Everybody used to tell me Ishould take it serious, but I
just didn't.
Yeah, I wasn't, I was justhaving fun.
I was just I like to go and andgo out and spend ten thousand
dollars on clothes and belts andand shoot a video.
That was my fun.
So I didn't really care.
It ain't really.

(42:44):
Even when I was on Big Star andall that Star used to call me
to come do them drinks, I usedto just come do it, just because
.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Big Star, that's.

Speaker 4 (42:56):
Too raw for the streets.
That was too raw for thestreets, yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Alright, yeah, so we in the DVD or whatever that is.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
That's why I wasn't on too many DVDs.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
I just the dvd or whatever.
Yeah, I was.
That's why I wasn't on too manydvds.
I just knew he had a big dvd.
He was on a few dvds, though Imean because people started
coming into the back that's whatwe talk.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
Star wars first right so I was other people, but I
just wasn't doing them.
I did it because I had justbought a brand new burgundy q45
with dubs on it right and a newwatch.
I just pulled up on it.
I remember that and this wasthe.
This was the dvd ever like tooraw and things like that.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
I pulled up in a burgundy q45 with dubs, and I
had two trucks, okay, okay, soit sounds like the minute you
got it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it'snot.
It sounded like to me that youknow it was a point where, like
after Off the Hook, you wasn'treally worrying about rap like
that.
I was just having fun bro.

Speaker 4 (43:52):
I was having fun.
Listen, I tell people all thetime I had the intro to the 8
o'clock mixtape show.
Well, let's back up.
I had the intro to the Hot Boys6 o'clock show.
Then two hours later, I had theintro to the 8 o'clock mixtape
show.
Then two hours later, if it wasa Friday, I had the intro to
the come-up show, and that ranfor two years straight.

(44:12):
I had all three intros on theradio and I still didn't care.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
I was just having fun the Hot Boyz that show.
That's the biggest one I washaving fun.

Speaker 4 (44:22):
And I just knew people wasn't going to out rap
because a lot of people wasfraud, and so I used to just say
stuff.
You know how I used to say itRapping about your watch and
your chain Don't even got one on, like I used to be having all
of it on while I was rapping, soit was just fun to me bro.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
It was fun, so we going to speed it up then.
Then he was just having funaround this time spending money.
You know running in the streets, you know switching up cars
when you feel like it.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
So let's talk about the not fun then.
Let's talk about the not fun.
Let's speed up to your case,man.
So you crashed out.
Yeah, it was everybody, and I'mfrom uptown, so this was a
known thing.
You know what I'm saying let'stalk about that.

(45:10):
So what was that day like?
Take us through that day, youknow.

Speaker 4 (45:15):
The first one when I went upstate.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:19):
I had just turned 25.
I had just bought a 4.6 RangeRover off M, just got a new
watch, new chain, had like aneight ounce bottle of juice on
me.
I was riding uptown.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
What was it, though?
What was it purple?

Speaker 4 (45:40):
It was real purple, not green shit and all that
stuff.
It was purple pro, meh, it waspro meh, it was pro meh why I?
um, I was riding around that daybut I felt like something was
gonna happen.
I had like a dark cloud over me.
That's why, when people saymoney can't bring you happiness,
it really can't.
You know, I'm saying, for somereason I just didn't feel like
myself.
It was like I got all thismoney.

(46:01):
I had like $30,000 in thearmrest.
I just had money and I didn'tfeel complete for some reason.
And that was the day mydaughter's, my kid's mom got
snatched in our apartment.
Damn, she went home and put thekey in the joint.
Somebody snatched open the door, kidnapped no, they ain't

(46:22):
kidnappers.
She's like who you wear blackat.
Okay, they snatched open thedoor, kidnap no, they ain't
kidnappers.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
She's like who you wear black at OK.

Speaker 4 (46:25):
And then they snatched her in the crib.
Ah, some painted food, yeah,she fought them off, and when
she fought them off, one of themdropped his burner, came back,
picked it up, left, and then shecalled the cops and then when I
got there that's when it began,Because they had no search

(46:45):
warrant, but they went in tookmy save, took the burners and
all that stuff and I got booked.
Oh, what Slow down?

Speaker 1 (46:49):
You speeding like a mech.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
God, that's not me, and that's what happened.
You told it so fast.

Speaker 4 (46:54):
That was crazy.
I mean, I told this story somany times, so I'm just giving
it to you like that.
That's what really happened,no-transcript.

(47:32):
They just looking around likeGod, I know what he doing and
they just took my safe.
They finally got the safecracked open and they you know
what I'm saying.
That was it, and I went to jail.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
So for somebody trying to rob y'all, you went to
jail, I went to jail forsomebody trying to rob me and I
had to get two lawyers BrianMcMonagle, arnold Silverstein.

Speaker 4 (47:56):
Um, I had both lawyers because I had to go to
jail because every you knoweverything was in the woman and
everything was in her name.
At that time I ain't hadnothing legal, you know what I'm
saying.
So they was going to throw heron the roof.
So I had to take the case.
So she didn't go to jail.
So I went upstate.
But I used to always be likedamn, they got the search
warrant.
After they took this, I went tojail for somebody else trying to
rob this.

(48:16):
I decided the third.
But at the end of the day, whenI came to the realization and
start really thinking I had tocharge that to the game, because
we say, charge it to the gamebut we never really charge it to
the game.
That's charging it to the gamelike if I would have never been
in the game and somebody wouldhave tried to rob her and they
came in the crib, they wouldn'thave found nothing and I would
have never went to jail.

(48:36):
So when you in game, it don'tmatter how you get caught.
You're going to be a mantelling on you.
It could be you get chased.
It could be a crooked cop,whatever the case may be.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
None of that would have happened if you wasn't in
the game.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
Yeah, you in the game .

Speaker 1 (48:48):
That's what happens you go to jail your bitch get
fucked.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
Niggas be mad about it.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
That's part exempt from it.
So it's like everything you dois part of the game.
I never heard nobody break itdown like that, like people
always say, uh, they want toblame it on this person I used
to do that.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
I knew I shouldn't.
Yeah, she told me to leave mygun in the crib this day if you
wasn't in the game yeah youwouldn't even never have a gap
oh no, no, no, I ain't not.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
No, no, no.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
I ain't out that far, where you going that far, black
Knight, I ain't out of the gamethat far.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
I'm talking about different type of like.

Speaker 4 (49:26):
I'm talking about different type of individuals
though Feel me, yeah, but thattype of situation, yeah, Even
the second case to answer yourquestion, the second case.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
I was want to speak on gun violence.
Real quick, man, not to takeyou off your story.
Real quick man, but when wasthe first time you thought you
needed a pistol, bro?

Speaker 4 (49:53):
when I went to King nigga.
I just told you for real 17.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah, but what was the situation?
You, it was.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
No, it was the situation like people getting no
, it was the situation likepeople getting robbed Eastside
30 deep beating niggas up andall of that Like I'm not.
I wasn't.
I was always like that.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Like I wasn't playing for that.
Yeah, I'm gonna.

Speaker 4 (50:09):
My mom raised men, but that's why I don't believe
when they say a woman can'traise a man.
And you can, because I wasraised by women.
It's you can because I wasraised by women.
I think it's possible, right, Iknew my mom took me everything
like, if you're gonna run, wealready naturally knew how to
fight for some reason me and mybrothers, right.
But, bro, I'm not, I'm notplaying when we fight.

(50:30):
If I can't beat you, bro, I'mgonna stab you.
If I can't stab you, then I wasgonna shoot you.
If I can't shoot you, I wasgonna bite you.
I was gonna do whatever I hadto do.
That's how I was.
So if I see things acting likethat and I already seen y'all
beat a nigga into a coma that'snot gonna be me.
Because I had a 25, I was gonnaclap one of them niggas that's
how I thought.
You know I'm saying that's how.
First I was taking a littleknife to school.

(50:51):
You feel what I'm saying?
And then after that somebodywas in a high-speed chase that's
how I got my first joint andthey bent the corner and john
came out the window and I foundit and it was a little chrome 25
.
That's how I had my first jointand I used to take that during
the school.
I wasn't just like, yeah,looking at it and mining it, I
just had it like okay, let themdo what they did to that board
other day with me.
That's how I was thinking aboutso it wasn't really no, and

(51:15):
then you know where we live at,bro.
And after that it's just likeis it me?
Then?

Speaker 1 (51:20):
you know where we live at, bro, and after that
it's just like it's me.
Yeah, I want um, that was agreat uh question and answer to
that question, yeah uh, so you,what was you?

Speaker 4 (51:31):
you said the second case.
What, what happened?
The second case I was in a highspeed chase.
I had just bought a q45, uh,burgundy, the burgundy truck,
the xfinity, I had that for alittle bit and, um, that was
right after the.
Joan had to name some of mycars.

(51:52):
Man, I had the 04 max and 04the white, all white puppy.
When they first came out, the05 joint, I mean yeah, and then
what's up video with me, me,dunny, and all of them I had
just bought that and um.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
We had I was in a high speed chase man.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
I was in a high speed chase um because they was
looking for somebody else, notme, that I resembled.
Once again I was in the game,though you know I'm saying, but
this time they put something inmy joint this time yeah, this
time they put something.
All right, wait, wait in my carwhy are?

Speaker 3 (52:30):
you going to?

Speaker 4 (52:30):
chase, you had something on you.
No, when they put, when I firstwent to park, the car spent
around me and jumped out.
That was the boy reed, the copreed that was terrorizing the
city but, he.
I never seen him before, so hejust looked young.
He had a t-shirt on no badgeout true religions on.
So the game that I'm in, I'malways thinking that somebody,

(52:54):
any day, somebody can run up onyou or they on me.
I still think like I always payattention because people get
caught slipping.
On any phones.
People get slipped like.
I just thought when I pulled upand I was seeing that happen,
I'm like there they go.
You know, I'm saying I neverpanic, like oh shit, I just saw
him like damn, there they go.
Like, and I ain't had nothingon me so I'm thinking like I'm
out of here.
You know, I'm saying.
Then I realized as I'm drivingI started thinking damn, both of

(53:17):
them doors open simultaneously.
Street niggas don't really dothat, not in sync, like that.
That's some cop shit, you feel.
I'm saying I'm just saying wow,and he was out together.
And then I peeped how they washolding the guns.
But before I wasn't thinkinglike that, I just seen two young
dudes and guns.
So I'm out, but I'm trying tomake it to forest avenue because

(53:38):
if I know, if I get off myblock and make it to Forest, all
I got to do is stop and seethat I'm being chased.

Speaker 2 (53:44):
You ain't give them even time to say police or
nothing.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
No, they ain't say that Right Now.
I realize that's who on me.
And I crashed out on that jointand they knew that they was
chasing me.
And they wasn't supposed to bechasing me because it was in an
undercover car and they made mecrash out, bang into a lady, her
bone popped out of her leg andall of that.
So they put something in my caroh.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
OK, that's why I always, when people say things,
I always say elaborate.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Yeah, they put something in my car and they had
to put a case on me.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Damn why you ain't never.
Nah, mom, I'm speaking.
I was going put something in mycar and I had to put a case on
me.
Damn why you ain't never.
Nah mom, speed.
I was gonna say something aboutit that would have been crazy
if you would have.

Speaker 4 (54:25):
Yeah, I know she's talking about all right, all
right all that's gonna comealong when the when the movie
come about my life okay okaybiopic yeah okay, so, um, so you
, so you go, you go up.
I fought that one for five years.
Five, six years.
I fought that case but I endedup getting house arrest.

(54:50):
But I quit the game after thatBecause when that case comes,
you got to think this is 2010.
I've been grinding since 2001.
So they already on my bodybecause I'm buying all these
cars, all this jewelry, all thisother violence is happening,
and they from far.

(55:10):
So it all falls on me becauseI'm the face of the block.
So everything's alreadytranspiring.
You feel I'm saying so.
They already on me abouteverything.
Anything that happened is myfault.
You know.
I'm saying so.
I quit because now you had theboys talking, the commissioner
is talking, everybody saying myname.
I'm done.

(55:30):
So I never.
I never touched nothing again.
I never middle man, nothing.
I never touched nothing, Inever did nothing.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
I quit so when, you so so when you go up.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
I went upstate in 2003 from the first case when my
baby mom got snatched all right, so that case yeah, I only went
to jail, bailed out, fought thecase for five years.
But you know, when you fight acase for five, six years and you
maintain a job and stay out oftrouble and got something to
bring back I'm talking to everyjuvenile facility and I got
something to bring back to courtlike I ain't juvenile facility

(56:00):
and I got something to bringback to court, like I ain't
catch cases along the way.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
I'm not smoking.

Speaker 4 (56:04):
I'm not drinking, yeah, I'm not.
I'm just because I'm reallydone.
You feel what I'm saying andI'm making progress on things
too.
Now, now I'm coming back tocourt with films, and you know
what I'm saying.
Saying I'm coming back to courtwith stuff.
Now, right, I'm coming backwith things like like good
things, positive stuff you knowwhat I'm saying, so it's like I

(56:25):
just got house arrest so Iknocked it off okay, so that's
the second one.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
So well, I'll go back to that.
So the first one at 03.
And you went up right and whereyou go, you go.

Speaker 4 (56:37):
I went to Camp Hill.
I ain't make it past Camp Hill.
I went the greatest for it thanCamp Hill, and Albion would
have been my jail if I wouldn'thave completed boot camp.
I went to boot camp.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Okay, okay, and just you, like you know, just you
being in there and you know it's2003.
You being in there?
How know it's 2003, you beingin there?
How did how?
What was you thinking?
Because I know a lot of peoplelike see, see, I know a little,

(57:09):
I know a lot about that gelstuff, unfortunately, and I know
it could even make you or breakyou, like literally it was
right up my alley bro.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
I don't, I don't fear no human bro yeah so it didn't
do nothing.
Yeah, make me or break me.
I just knew, when I come inthere, I'm not playing.
We're not even gonna play rightwe're not gonna argue, we're
not gonna play, we're not gonnajoke too much, you're not gonna
play with me.
I don't care where we at, sothat's just how it was.
When I go in there, I'm like Iam out here yeah if I'm saying

(57:42):
if you cool and you hurt.
And I was paying his phone bills, light bills, getting money
sent to the uh, to the they babymoms from my folks, and all
that just making sure people eat, paying commissary.
But I also was punching oneverything too, if I had to
right so you know what I mean.
It don't matter big, small,tiny.
I don't just, I'm just notgoing for that you know what I'm

(58:02):
saying so.
That's just how it is, and youknow they check them drones at
the door.
So if you can't beat me withyour hands, it's gonna be hard
to beat me with a knife, becauseI got one too so that's just
how it was.
It was just like and you mindyour business and know that you
not playing, and that's just howit's gonna go, either one way
or the other.
So so they you know what I'msaying.

(58:23):
It made me smarter, though, tobe like man.
I ain't trying to come back inhere because it's corny yeah,
you know what I'm saying it'scorny, you ain't having no fun,
you're not seeing your family,you're on the phone, you ain't
getting no cheeks, you can'tit's like you can't take it in
private.
It's like it's just a lot, bro,so I like man, it's like it's a
lot bro.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
So I'm like man, it's corny, you were still writing
music.

Speaker 4 (58:42):
Yeah, I was rapping circles around everybody in Camp
Hill when I came home.
That's when I really gotserious.
When I came home, I turnedblack to narrow but I went
straight to jail Because Acewanted me to be.
What was that again?

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Take Down Records Take Down.

Speaker 4 (58:56):
Records For real.
Yeah, ace, ace wanted to beTake Down Records.
He offered me 10 grand, but Iwas like I already had 10 grand.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
That would have been all that from off the hook.
I had 10 grand.

Speaker 4 (59:05):
He tried to offer me 10 grand and also I didn't want
to take his money because I knewI was fighting the case right,
you feel what I'm saying, sobetter be glad I became Black De
Niro when I came home.
That's when all the SupermansI'll be on my grinds.
That's when all that startedhappening.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
And that's perfect, because I don't like talking
about jail.

Speaker 4 (59:24):
That's perfect, we just going.
That's why I never rap about it.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Yo, my man, he did what he did.
He did his time, that's it.
We not talking about jail story.
So when you stabbed him, heslipping.

Speaker 4 (59:35):
We, you notice the things I never rapped about, bro
being in foster care, reallybeing shot, really going to jail
.
I never rapped about thingslike that.
Like Seagull did, he gave youhis pain.

Speaker 2 (59:49):
You met rappers in jail though, Like that you know
out here now no the first rapperI met was in 99, was like Gil
and them.

Speaker 4 (59:57):
Like Gil and Oski, though Only two as a matter of
fact Besides like Murder Gil andthem.
Like Gil and Oski Only two as amatter of fact, Besides like
Murder Mill and them I'm talkingabout that, really, what you
call it.
Still to this day I never metMost Wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Bubonic or Mr, I've never met them.

Speaker 4 (01:00:11):
I had when I came home, the very first person I
met- as soon as I came home.
I wasn't home home for a minuteand I met P Crack.
He was back, shrimpies, he waswith my man Go Down.
He had his gold plaque for thejoint with him and Neo Crack
have his feet on and he heardabout me from being in the
street and he jumped right in myfirst video call.

(01:00:33):
You can bet that it wasn'tYouTube yet either.
So you can bet that video wason a disc.
We ain't had YouTube.
That's when I met crack.
Then I knew oh, so I called ohand oh came down and got in the
same video with me.
So wait, did you?
You put them two together.
No, oskino was just came downand got in the video because I

(01:00:54):
called him oh, I was fresh homeand crack.
I met him that night then.
Then I met I met Siegel in 99,though I knew Siegel before I
went to jail.
Met him through fool, fool bang.
Yeah, and that was it.
I met freeway when I came home.
Like later on, down the line,me and freeway really start
getting super tight until on theset of streets.

Speaker 3 (01:01:15):
The movie okay.

Speaker 4 (01:01:16):
It's just set of streets.
I met Everybody else throughoutthe DVD era.
Like a lot of people come inthe Batcave, we would meet each
other yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 4 (01:01:26):
Because I can't pinpoint when I met everybody
but I was making my own name andwhen you make your own name and
I wasn't asking nobody fornothing.
So when I was doing my ownthing, by the time I called
somebody and asked them if theyor what somebody was like.
Yo, you want to be on?

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
this song, like this boy.

Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
Yeah, like I called siegel we was on the phone with
me gilly, uh, cosmic, kev andall them people and I was like
man, I got cassidy, gill andsomebody else on this, I'll be
on my grind.
I want Seagull.
I want to do something withSeagull.
They call Seagull, I callSeagull.
He asks me when you want to doit.
I said today, if you can.

(01:02:06):
He said I'll come do it today.
This one he was Seagull,seagull, seagull, not that he
not now all these sessions andmade them stop for a little bit.
We laid the joint and that'show I'll be on my ground.
Remix came out.
That's how I started meetingpeople.

(01:02:26):
I was gonna get down on theground remix.
I stood out out of all thempeople.
Every time I would make sure Istood out and that's just how I
started and you went.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
You went right where I wanted you to go, because I
wanna, I wanna.
Why are you?
Laughing you went right where Iwanted you to go.
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
you laughing, you went right where I wanted you to
go?
My fault, my fault, no, goahead.
You showed me the video lastweek, chicken man.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Chicken man, oh my.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
God bro.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
You go crazy, right he's trying, he's trying, he's
trying anything.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Hey Cash Cash.
My fault Back to him out Withthe phone.

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
the money to the yeah , I showed up with like a dub on
it that wasn't it back then.

Speaker 1 (01:03:10):
Like that's like the new black the death took years
ago, but no chicken, and thenthen remember the other part.
No, when we turned on thefreestyle and he was trying to
be a chocolate male model.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
When he licked his lips before that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Yo go ahead and talk about your remodeling.
No, when Beans was fucking itup, he was rapping, you was
going to look at the camera likeYo, of course, started cracking
the fuck Because I was having agood.
The camera like yo.

Speaker 4 (01:03:40):
Yo the chorus started cracking the fuck Because that
Black noise Black.
Always was like that, though Iwas having a good time that day
too, because people couldn'tcall Beans and get Beans out to
come do that, yo Hell.
No, I had Scorp the.

Speaker 3 (01:03:50):
Boy Young Hot Seagull .
Scorp the Boy Young Hot Beans,that's a classic freestyle John.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Yeah, that's a classic Besides Beans, who you
think did the best on there?
Beans.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Ha ha, he's a.
He smoked that mic and leftLike he definitely cooked that
job, segal the best rapper thatever come out of Philadelphia
man that's a hot stick to me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
I'm not rapping.
That for real.
I'm not rapping, that's a fact.

Speaker 4 (01:04:12):
Damn he killed that shit.
No, I don't think that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
He killed that shit.
Know that I don't like thisshit, real rap man, we ain't
going to act like Segal ain'tSegal bro.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
I don't got nobody being better than Segal bro.
That's just my opinion.
I don't care what nobody say.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:29):
It's different.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
You got stories themes.

Speaker 4 (01:04:34):
Yeah, I mean catalogs .
It's an arguable thing if youwant to bring stuff like that.
I'm just talking about flow,voice delivery, believability,
If that's a word Proof.
It's definitely a word, Lyrics,stories, pain club clubs

(01:04:54):
freestyles Check all the lettersDifferent, bro.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
I see he got on with 10 raps.

Speaker 4 (01:04:59):
Different.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Mike, that's crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:05:01):
Yeah, I just told him that to his face on FaceTime
yesterday.
He know that my favorite rapper, bro.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
I was with Mac all night last night People scared
to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:05:12):
They don't like to do that in Philly.
That's my favorite rapper fromPhilly bro, he's my favorite
rapper in the top five, dead oralive.
To me, yeah, me too.
I don't know why people actlike that.
Can't be.
That's a crazy thing, Wait whatyou say.
Because people, what you mean.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
No, what you say, go say it again Top five.
Dead or alive Top five dead oralive.

Speaker 4 (01:05:30):
He's one of my favorite rappers.
Oh my, but when you?

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
in Philly when people in Philly.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Do that they be like?
What about such and such, thisperson be from Chicago and
Atlanta and all these otherpeople?
Man, they be acting like.
Philly people be acting likebecause he from Philly man, he
top five there, a lot of me, ohshit, it is what it is Damn.
They couldn't.
Too many people couldn't standin front of him at that point,
at that time.
Hov never been on the trackwith Seagull and did anything he

(01:06:03):
got left.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Every time Seagull smoked him.
All right, yeah, it ain't toomany people who don't rap better
than Vince.

Speaker 2 (01:06:06):
Listen, I don't want to fall off track with your
story right, because we talkedabout Superman right, and I
meant to put this in the middleof Superman, because I seen you
do some Superman shit before andit was crazy.
'm like yo, he really on somehero you was uh, no, no, no,

(01:06:27):
this really happened go ahead,give it to.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
I want to hear this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
It's not even funny, though it was some real
superhero like his daughter wasselling lemonade or something
right, like she had like alemonade stand, yeah, yeah, and
Black had to go like check asituation with this whole
situation with somebody like youknow how Karen would come up

(01:06:51):
and try to stop the kids fromselling stuff on their property
or down the street or somethingthey don't even got nothing to
do with.
Yeah, Now, um go the story.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
I don't like that story man.
He was just a dude, was justgetting a little too aggressive,
and I don't play by my kids?

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
what do you want to tell my kids what they can't do?
The dude was he from.
On the white guy he was fromsomething in that area, whatever
.

Speaker 4 (01:07:15):
But you know, sometimes it's a
misunderstanding of culturaldifference where sometimes
caucasian people don'tunderstand, so they always be on
this permit stuff, and it'sthat.
And a third, and I'm looking atit like I got a 10 year old
daughter who out here makingnine year old, something like
that, eight nine making slimeand selling slime that she's

(01:07:36):
making that she learned how tomake and you worried about that,
when I know it's 11 year oldsout here selling crack or it's
people 13 years over hereshooting and stuff like that.
So I'll be.
I'll be looking at it from mycoach like, bro, they doing
something positive, don't youdare come over here and tell
them to shut it down, or theygotta have a permit and all I
had stepped off and I came backand it was packing up so when,

(01:07:59):
when it was packing up, I'masking him what's going on.
I thought they sold out.
My daughter was all sad aboutthe cry.
The man told her she couldn'tdo it.
He was walking up the block.
That's how I ended up all theway up there with him by himself
.
Almost did him dirty.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
But I had to think about it.
You know what?

Speaker 4 (01:08:12):
I'm saying Like don't battle rap.
That's why I never battle rap.
To get on that, because you'renot going to stand in my face
and tell me what you're going todo, I'm going to take your
little daughter and throw thebitch over the Nah, that's not.
I can't take that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
That's the new age battle rap though.
Because back in the day peopleknew nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:29):
It was just your best raps back then.
Yeah, you're not doing that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
I tell my All right, let's talk about battle rap now,
because you connected toeverything.
Hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:08:42):
Hold on, hold on, before we get into that y'all
already, because remember hespeeded like a Lamborghini.
So we already know aboutSuperman.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
We ain't got to speak on that.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
We ain't got to talk about that Because we already,
we already.
I just want to talk about thatbecause that's the, that's how I
feel about what's on my bestmoments.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
That's your pivotal moment, though that's the hour
that's the, that's the blackdinero.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Yeah, exactly so I want to talk about that ever and
I want to speak on of course Igot to speak on you and cuz real
quick because that's the blackdinero that I like all um dumb
ain't I, ain't I and all thatlike you being featured on
flamers and things like that.

(01:09:29):
So um bat cave boys basicallyyou said before it was when it
was on show, y'all really, andGilly was the but I'm talking
about the Batcave boys,everybody else, batcave 444, you
, knox Garci, gilly it was a lotof people.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
I think the main people was Knox Garci, me, gil
Meek.
That was like the main people.
We was there every day, me andGil was there every day Because
I ain't had nothing else to do.
I wasn't ever a corner boy, soI ain't had to stand outside and

(01:10:12):
pitch you know what.
I'm saying I didn't have whatelse I was going to do.
I was in the studio all day,you know what I'm saying, so I
want to touch on my fault.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
My bad, I was dang what else I was gonna do?
Yeah, I was a studio all day.
Yeah, you know I'm saying so.
I want to touch on my fault, mybed.
I want to touch on that momentbecause I could get into the.
So when y'all recorded thissong, you know I ain't even
gonna do that, I'm.
I'm just gonna x this Out ofall to me.
Y'all's might be different outof all to me, yours might be

(01:10:47):
different out of all, like themute, the philly musical errors,
that was the most iconic one tome.
It was like to me.

Speaker 4 (01:10:51):
Well, to me too, because we hit the radio right
after that.
They had the bad cave on theradio and first they had it on
the college campus and then theywent to the radio, so yeah it,
it was.
Everything was helpingeverything.

Speaker 3 (01:11:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:02):
So, as they was growing, we was growing, it was
like it was like 06, to like2012.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
12.
12.
Like that, like.

Speaker 4 (01:11:15):
Probably 05.
That was the 05 becauseSuperman was made in the Batcave
, and all that too.
Oh, like probably, oh five,that was five, because superman
was made in the back here andall that too, oh you talking
about, because all that was inthe other show and when we moved
down four, four, four, itdidn't even have the same feel
as the kids I'm talking aboutthe years.
Okay, yeah, probably.
Oh five, oh, five to twelvelike, like, like, oh five like
twelve like all right, so hisshots was like what?

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
All right, so Headshots was like what I don't
remember.
Headshots probably was like 03.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
The DVD 04.
Back here, it was like 05.

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
All right, so that's like kind of battle rap to me
Musically, yeah, Musically like05, 06 to like 2012 was the best
Philly ever yeah there was alot going on.
Yeah to me, because all thepeople that we because if I go

(01:12:07):
headshots, that's DVDs, that'scheating, like I'm just talking
about musically songs how yeah.
So how was that to you likethat era, like just Black DeNiro
being a prominent name in thatera, like when you talk about
cuz, when you talk about likehow you say you got the what you

(01:12:29):
, what's the what you crownedyourself on.
Well, we always was talkingabout that.
We was arguing about what hegot, the you got the most
features, because ever right.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
Yeah, I don't, yeah, no, I don't think no.
Rapper.
And fully got more featuresthan me besides me, right,
except his bloodhound, right?
I?

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
don't think so.
And then this how use aprominent name?
And then what else we wastalking about you was the first
one that got more Philly elitepeople on a song.
you was the first one to do that, so with them.
Accolades, bro.
You like, when you bring upthat Everett is the best that we

(01:13:07):
speaking on, you can't eventalk about it without Black
DeNiro.
So I'm going to just sum allthat up, I'm not going to name
stuff back to back.
How does that feel that whenyou talk about the best ever in
Philadelphia, you cannot notbring up, you Like, how is that
feeling?
Like fast forward to now.

Speaker 4 (01:13:27):
I mean.
Time go by so fast, man.
Some people forget, some peopledon't know, they don't know the
history, they don't know a lotof the people that I put on
records for the first time.
You know what I'm saying Hiddenbeefs I squashed behind closed
doors, all that type of stuff.

(01:13:48):
I don't really look at it,nothing like that, because when
you living in the moment, bro,and you, just you, I just feel
like I don't ever do nothinglike yeah, I did that.
I just remind people sometimeslike this I, this is what
happened when other peoplecouldn't do it, I made that
happen, but at the end of theday, it's nothing that I really.
I always connected with thoroughpeople throughout my path, man,

(01:14:10):
so I just was doing what I wasdoing and I think people was
respecting that.
I was on, I was on both sidesof the field, like I really was
doing what I was talking, Ireally was rapping, I really was
doing, you know, taking care ofmy family, getting money, and I
was cool.
I ain't talking gangsta, Iain't that gangsta, was just me.
So I think when people act likethat, when be like that, it was
easy for me to put oskino andgilly on the record when they're

(01:14:33):
not even talking to each otherthey don't mess with each other.
P crack and gilly.
Each other, they don't messwith each other.
P crack and gilly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Freeway and cassidy on their first record seagull
and ar ab on their first right.
It was that middle, that middlestitch that kept.
It was all out of love peoplein the city together yeah, yeah,
because I mean the only personthat could do something like
that, it will be like a streetguy.
I guess Somebody that's in themix that know people that's

(01:15:05):
connected.

Speaker 3 (01:15:06):
I mean the only other person that I met at that time
would have been able to do.

Speaker 2 (01:15:10):
it would be Meek but he wasn't going to do it at that
time.
Not at that time.
He can't have that boy.
No, not at that time.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
I'm talking about everything after flamers we did
all that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:21):
Yeah, after flames.
I'm talking about that's thetime I'm talking about now.
Now look though, since wetalked, since you said, you said
something about beef.
Right, you, you see speed, howyou feel when your your back
cave brothers, go at it, me,anybody guys greatcia, mike, nox
anybody like how you feelbecause I hate that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:42):
Man, as men, man, men grow, men have
misunderstandings, right.
Um, fortunately I never had toomuch.
I just think, man, some peoplejust gotta take accountability
for their actions.
Some people don't see that theybe doing Sucker shit and you

(01:16:04):
know I'm saying, or they justthe way that they move, is they
just not moving in a right wayTo line up with somebody else?
Me, I just mind my business, Idon't really care, but I sit
back and we'll sit back and knowwho's who, who's doing what,
who's moving a certain way.
It's just certain things youjust shouldn't do a conduct
yourself as a man.
So I think the signals getcrossed sometimes when you know

(01:16:27):
everybody trying to figure itout too, meaning you growing,
everybody been on that highhorse before.
Some people might get a littlemore arrogant at times.
Sometimes people don't got noemotion going on and they, they
salty about it.
It's a lot of different thingsthat, because we all been
through that part.
You know what I'm saying right,you just gotta know how to deal

(01:16:48):
with it.
It's a point when I didn't haveno emotion going on, when I
ain't had no money, I ain't hadstuff going on.
I just still show love.
I never hated, I never tried toplay with nobody, or you know
what I'm saying?
Just wait until I got back so Iwas going, so I don't like it,
but there's nothing you could do.
I sit back and don't say nothing.
I'll make a phone call here andthere and try to put things to

(01:17:09):
bed.
But once somebody got theirmind made up, I just say all
right, let you iron it out right, you know what I'm saying.
I let them iron it out, but Italk every, every beef that you
damn near saw with any rapper.
I was involved withconversations all the way back
with Cassidy and Meek, all theway back.
Then we all took a picture atthe 40-40 at a Jay-Z party,

(01:17:29):
because they wasn't evenspeaking to each other in there.
So that's even when they wasdoing that.
So you know what I mean.
I was on the three-way with themtrying to click each of them in
and they wouldn't let me.
And when meek and sister, I wason the three-way then trying to
click them in, I did click themin.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
You know what I'm saying conversation was crazy,
but that boy meek man guys getgood, crazy, like you nothing oh
that boy man, um, but when he?

Speaker 4 (01:18:04):
the best part about it to me is when they get
through it.
Nobody died, nobody went tojail, and then they had a, a
space, rather, is like it usedto be, whether it's even better
or just not worrying about eachother, but they had a space
where they can coincide.
Yeah, you feel what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:18:26):
I like that that's.

Speaker 4 (01:18:27):
that's the best thing about it to me, other than that
when it's going down I don'treally like it, because negative
people feed off negative people, negative energy, you, you know
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Mm-hmm, that's true, so all right.
So basically, like because Ijust wanted you to touch on that
era, because, like everybody,oh bro, movies and all that, and
then it's like before that itwas like you.

(01:18:59):
To me it was was like I toldyou.
You was like the DJ Kyle of thePhilly, like you just know how
to put all these people on therecord and just make a record
come about.
But it was also the BlackDinero who just was flaming shit
.
And luckily that you on apodcast with people who really

(01:19:21):
know stuff like that right notjust know what everybody else
know.
We know a little, know a littledeeper stuff.
Right so all right after that,what would you say that ever
stopped?
2000, 2012.

Speaker 4 (01:19:37):
I think so 2012?

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
yeah, and and why would you say that?

Speaker 4 (01:19:43):
I think everybody started going different
directions.
Even Gil started touching onthe movies a little bit at that
time.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
I was doing showcases .

Speaker 4 (01:19:53):
You know what I mean.
I helped introduce OT, the Realman, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
People didn't really know OT the Real until he won
the Black De Niro hua showcase Imean that's when he started so
you basically explained a littlebit of what you started doing
after that ever yeah, yeah, Istarted doing showcases and
seminars and the films and stufflike that, and I just started
moving, I don't know whichdirection everybody else was

(01:20:19):
going in but that's just peoplejust going their own directions.
Okay, okay.
So why are you doing?
Why are you doing all that?
Still maintaining your rapcareer, though?

Speaker 4 (01:20:32):
yeah, slightly.
Yeah, I was stuck on them films, bro, you gotta remember my
second feeling my second filmwas straight to netflix.
Once that happened, I was donewith rap really oh, I was really
sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:20:44):
I was done, bro.
You asked me, that's exactlyhow I went, though.

Speaker 4 (01:20:48):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
The rap was over yeah , that's how I went.
No, all right.
So this all right, so we'regonna go.
We're gonna go this way we'regonna go this way.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Oh we're going to go this way.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
But I hope so.
We're going to go this way.
That's perfect.
When was your first short film?

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Damn.
It's more to the story.
I think that was Damn, I don'teven know 20.
14.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
Then this perfect, then that's perfect.
Maybe that's perfect, that'sperfect yeah 2014,.

Speaker 4 (01:21:24):
Somewhere, my first short film shot by High Depth,
ok, so so close.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
That's all High Depth man, yeah it had Cousin E in
there.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
Spank the Comedian in there, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
He had a lot of people on there.

Speaker 4 (01:21:34):
That was the first time I ever went viral by myself
Reached 11 million.
I mean it's at 11 million viewsnow, but I did a million views
in like three weeks on that, soyou hear that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
Listen, I want y'all to know something.

Speaker 4 (01:21:47):
I want y'all to know something right it's crazy, but
yeah, it was dope this manthat's sitting amongst us right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
Been rapping since when?
10?
Yeah, mid-90s, right, yeah,mid-90s.
Been with Off the Hook.
Been in the Sheetz, been thatnigga in the Sheetz.

Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
I got a feature with everybody in Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (01:22:11):
Everybody in.
Philadelphia, including me.
I got a feature with Black.

Speaker 1 (01:22:14):
Then he done, went to jail five years, came back
Three.
Damn, don't add more Jones tome oh three my, and went to jail
five years, came back Three man.
Don't add more Jones to me.
Oh, three, my bad, my bad, mybad Black, my bad Black, my bad
Black, my bad Black.
Three Jones, you know what I'msaying?
My bad Black, he did threeJones.
Came home, did Superman Resumecrazy, all his songs in the city

(01:22:35):
been on all that was like a 10,15 years being, and then he
came home and then he, and thenhe stopped rapping or was still
rapping, but I'm gonna let youtell.
I'm gonna let you tell how itcame about.
But just to say this, all afterall them years, the first time

(01:22:55):
he went viral was off ofsomething he didn't even spend
it all in the years, years.

Speaker 3 (01:22:59):
Yeah, that's how it be, ain't that shit crazy?

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
and I wanted to just break that down and say you, you
never know you're calling yeah,I didn't.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
It's a lesson, that's why I call it and you never
quit.

Speaker 4 (01:23:09):
So it's like you know I was always blessed with
ambition.
That's why I don't get mad atpeople.
Bro.
One thing about me I don't carewhat nobody say, I always knew
to.
I was always blessed to be ableto let me rephrase that to get
to some money.
Always, I like how you speakinto the.

Speaker 2 (01:23:29):
I mean, you know what words to put into the air.

Speaker 4 (01:23:31):
Yeah, let me switch that Always been blessed to be
able to get to some money Always.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Just never know your calling man.

Speaker 4 (01:23:36):
If you ambitious, bro , you gonna eat.
Period, your calling man.
If you ambitious, bro, you'regonna eat period.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
You ambitious, you're gonna.
I've been rapping a littlewhile now too, and so you pivot
right the pod yeah when youpivot.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
You already had this.
You already had a script likeright now like how, how to, how
to, how did it?
I had a song and it turned intothat okay but, an ambitious
person don't know the route.

Speaker 4 (01:23:59):
Sometimes, yeah, and nine times out of ten they don't
, because an ambitious personjust gonna eat, because they
always ambitious.
They're always doing something,so you never know which one is
going to catch yeah because youalways doing something, I'm
always doing something right youknow what I'm saying.
I made twenty thousand dollarsoff of no help needed sweatsuits
just because I wanted tosupport stizz from the battle

(01:24:20):
academy.
He had just got a new printerand I had a cd coming out called
no help needed.
So I said, damn, bro, let memake me up three sweatsuits and
I'll pay you.
He paid it, I put it on, took apicture with it.
People started saying theywanted the sweat suits.
I started shipping them,drawings out to san diego, san
francisco, cali, new york,selling them all over city.
I mean like 20,000 off ofsweatsuits.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
I didn't see that coming.
You know what?

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
I'm saying I started doing everything I'm always
doing.
Even when COVID came, before awhole lot of podcasts came, I
was the one of the first peopleto do use the IG live and people
would get mad when you would.
They'll say things like whatyou was the first person.
Yeah, I was one of the firstpart.
It was nero ig live tv and Idid it every night right during
covid when we couldn't come outeight o'clock I had every.
I guess gilly, wallow, frank,the grippers freeway, nh.

(01:25:13):
Uh, dominique from insecure,dominique perry that played
tasha on Insecure BY JenningsMoni Love.

Speaker 2 (01:25:23):
Freeway.
Wallow you be saying thesenames.
Young Chris, like you walkoutside, I could just bump into
these people.
Cassidy, Freeway.

Speaker 4 (01:25:30):
Everybody was on.
I was doing them every night.
I had a new guest every night.
You know, I interviewed MoniLove man.
Yeah, that's fine, Like come ondog and this was just off your
contact list.
This was just off the contactlist, just calling people You're
going crazy.
You know what I'm saying and Ididn't know that was going to
happen.

Speaker 1 (01:25:46):
So tell us how more to the story came about?

Speaker 4 (01:25:52):
The song.
Doing the song had Liam andthem all come up listen to the
song.
They liked it.
It was like a story filled toit.
We shot it.
It was 28 minutes long.
Put it out, shout out to Meek.
He tweeted it out, told peopleto go watch it.
Boom.
After that it started rocking.
Then I wrote Brush.

Speaker 1 (01:26:17):
So, as more to the story, your first short film
came about from a song.
It's titled what?

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
It's more to the story.
So you did do a concept songbefore, but you never did a
concept album, and it inspiredyou to write the script to Brush
Yep Damn.
Black Hole is a concept album,y'all.
Brush that word you can't quitand just not give us a concept
album.

Speaker 4 (01:26:42):
I'm knee deep in the film now, bro.
I'm chasing something, like I'malways whenever I rapped.
I didn't look at people on mylevel or below my level.
I always looked at the highestpeople.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
So do you still rap on your?

Speaker 4 (01:26:52):
soundtracks Sometimes , if I want the extra check In
my last movie what was DoneAfter Dark.
I did the outro Just because ifI do the outro and I own the
beat and my song is registered.
That's just an extra check forme.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
Rush was a great breakout movie.
Talk about it.
I want the youngins to knowabout this type of stuff.
So you record your own song andput it at the end of your movie
and you get a check for it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:18):
I can put it anywhere in my movie, anywhere in the
movie that's why when people dosong placement in my song, they
be like how much you paying?
I'm not paying nothing.
You should be getting paidbecause your song should be
registered right once you andthe producer sign off and you
own everything.
That's your, your jointregistered, that's you.
I.
I'm not paying you, you'regonna get paid make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
You're gonna get paid off the exposure that I get
Every movie.

Speaker 4 (01:27:39):
I drop it, trend yeah .

Speaker 2 (01:27:41):
You know what I'm saying?
That's why you got to have anIP number.
Yeah, it's just like that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:44):
You just got to know the business.
That's a whole differentballgame of knowing the business
.
I tell people all the time I'mnot out here screaming things
that just be screaming it like Iwas screaming Forest Avenue.
That was meaningless.
I had nothing behind it.
Anybody could have came andtook my whole catalog of
everything.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
So, look right, you've been shooting movies
since 2012?
Yep, have any of your Batcavebrothers featured in them?

Speaker 4 (01:28:19):
In Brush I got Cassidy Freeway, spado, chris,
neif.
No, the Batcave brothers.
And no, they ain't listening tome, man, they doing their own
thing.
Everybody want me to put themin the movie, knowing that's
never going to happen with me.
I don't care who you is, that'smy thing.
So what's the process ofgetting in?

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
a, a black and narrow like shout out the feast banger
my man feces and he'd berocking.

Speaker 4 (01:28:45):
That's my guy.
You got to come to a castingcall.
It's a visionary thing, man.
People can't take it personal.
I got to be able to see that youportrayed this character that I
dreamt about, that I see as I'mwriting it, that I envision.
You have to fit the character,male or female, I don't care how
pretty you are, I don't carehow gangster you are.

(01:29:06):
You can't tell me it's me,because I know a thousand is
me's.
You gotta fit the character.
If that was the case, if thatwasn't the case, then I would be
in all my films.
Yeah.
I'm only in the first four mark.
Why wouldn't I be the lead guy?
And was done after shout out towhich?

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
shout out to my boy too.
He and one of your drawings whodeke what's up.
He didn't want to dig in whichmovie.

Speaker 4 (01:29:27):
I think he in brush right little deke that I sent to
the story.
Oh, I ain't seen him since then.
That's what he was rollingthat's what he's rolling now.

Speaker 1 (01:29:36):
Oh wow, I mean sometimes you'd be rolling that
out rolling man rolling now ohwow.
I mean sometimes you'll berolling out the west side like
because they move somewhere.

Speaker 3 (01:29:44):
Yeah, shout out d yeah yeah, that's what that's
when he started, really he wasyounger, and that's when I seen
him doing this thing, vandy himand lena little as he haircut.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
I ain't trying to say like yeah rolling.

Speaker 4 (01:29:55):
I don't want to miss him.

Speaker 1 (01:29:56):
Screw that no, I just don't see nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:29:58):
But when I, that's when he first started, that's
when he started was like yeah,you know what I'm saying, yeah,
vine, and all that, yeah dekewas in there, so um he played yo
not the control.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
The boy played that role so well.
Uh, the one with the dreads,with the face, oh, oh, oh,
shahraz the boy that played ruewith the dreads, with the face,
oh, oh, oh.
Charvez, the boy that playedrue.
Oh, bro, bro, see, that's avision.
Let me tell you something thatwas crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:30:25):
Let me tell you how visionary work right he had.
Like this no beard, no realbeard, no mustache.
He had his joints in a ponytailand stuff like that he was with
his woman.
I said let me ask you a woman,you mind if he grows beard out?
She's like I don't care.
I said don't cut your beard,don't cut it.

(01:30:45):
From here on he had always hadthe closed joint.
So during the time after thecasting call and I knew he got
the part I made him grow hisjoint out.
When he got on set I was justlooking at him one day and I was
like come here for a minute,bro, like a beautician.
I took the scrunchie orwhatever he had off his joint,
pulled his locks all the waydown, put them all in front of
his face and said I want youjust like that.

(01:31:05):
That just happened on set.
Like that's why you see him,never see his face.

Speaker 1 (01:31:10):
All his locks is in his face because I just saw that
I want to say I ain't gonna be.
It is me.
I'm gonna really come there andreally audition man.
I really want to, man, yougotta audition.

Speaker 4 (01:31:20):
You gonna get so many people get upset with me every
time because they don't get thepart or one, but it's if I'm
seeing 311 people in one castingcall and then the next casting
call I'm seeing 304 peoplebecause we be counting them and
then that's almost 800 people,or 700 people in one, two
casting calls.
Bro, it's only gonna be fivepeople.

(01:31:41):
That's going to get picked,that's going to have major parts
.
So everybody not going to getthe part, like I said, I would
play my own.
I would be the person in everymovie if I wanted to how was it?

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
networking in the movie world, what you mean like
meeting other directors?

Speaker 4 (01:31:57):
I mean, I don't really I meet them when I meet
them, the directors over there,when you rap.
That mean I don't really I meetthem when I meet them, the
directors over there, when yourap.
That's why I don't rap too much.
When you rap it's always a lotof negative energy when you come
in the room and there's 30gangsters over here and 30
gangsters over here, theentourage, the entourage.
You got to be on point.
Everybody don't.
If you don't like the songalbum, but with film they just

(01:32:17):
chitty chatter all the time.
It's a bunch of.
You gotta get used to mentalking like girls all the time
and they was really mad at mecause I stepped right in the
game and went straight toNetflix.
So they like who are you, whereyou come from, you know what
I'm saying.
So everybody will think I'marrogant.
They'll think I'm this.
They'll already perceive me asa person that african-american

(01:32:43):
in this space like every otherlike it's serious like it's
blatant, it's like we're havingthe
same problem.
Yeah, we're in that worlddifferent.
It's like everything else youknow how about?

Speaker 3 (01:32:56):
how about being independent?
It's the same as well noindependence.

Speaker 4 (01:33:00):
You can go your own way.
You gotta one thing about me,man I was also blessed to have a
core following, so my I got anice fan base of core fan
supporters that that that justpay all my bills, right, right,
right help me live a nice life,because I'm always feeding them
with something you know.
I'm saying it's just about howyou, how to make them, figuring

(01:33:20):
out, how to make them alwaysgrow that 38 special talk how to
make them grow, and then phillyis definitely.
We talked about that before.
It's hard to do that herebecause, people just don't
understand.
They don't look in the mirrorand say what part am I not
playing?
They always put the blame oneverybody else.
Everybody sit here and say man,it's Philly, it's Philly, it's
Philly, it's Philly.
But nine times out of ten, allthe people that earned their

(01:33:42):
spots and that's at a certainplace, damn near none of them,
couldn't send me something andtell me to post it.
None of them meek gill, uh,freeway cassidy, uh, quilly ot,
nobody couldn't send me nothing,both ots, kwanian, the real
none of them send me nothing toask me not to post it.

(01:34:02):
But a lot of people can't sendto other people, not saying them
because I brought them here butthe and just post it.
That costs you nothing.
Yeah, they don't want it.
They don't help each other eat.
Everybody act like they don'tknow the issue or the problem,
but they, they do yeah becauseyou gotta, if I, when I come out
with a, when I come out with amovie, right, I feel as though a

(01:34:26):
lot of people that I used toexpect to post it, they should
post it without me sayingnothing.
Because when Ab was on Vlad, Ipost it.
When Gil come out with MillionDollars Worth of Game, I'm
posting it.
When BY Jennings is fightingJesse Hart, I'm posting it.
When Cool Boy Steph, I'mposting it.
I never even met Cool Boy StephWith Jesse Hart and B jesse

(01:34:48):
hart, I'm posting it with coolboy steph.
I'm posting I never even metcool boy steph right with jesse
hart and be one of my guys, butif I see him I'm posting it
posting it every time I see aphilly battle.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Rap battle you right there you got me.

Speaker 4 (01:34:56):
I'm a battle rap guy though too, and I'm posting all
these stuff.
Yeah, so it's like it's justlittle stuff like that, like
that can help people eat if youtaking them to the water, bro.

Speaker 1 (01:35:08):
So I don't want to get on.
I don't want to get on a trip.
That was great questions,though like.
Let's keep it on the movies,though, and that was great, no
that was a great three or fourdrawings because we didn't do
that and uh, we just straightwent into the.
I mean, so that was greatlittle drawings because a lot of
people don't know a lot aboutthe film industry and you know

(01:35:29):
what I'm saying so, um, so, allright, there's more to the story
.
That was, you still was, youknow, black narrow philly, black
denier, but then your next john.
That's when you went to theblack narrow the real director,
like that people know yeah andand and are familiar with and,
like I'm saying, you got that,we're going to let you tell the

(01:35:49):
Gary Owens story behind it andall that.

Speaker 4 (01:35:53):
Tell us about Brush man, how that came about, brush
came about from quitting thegame, telling my life story
basically in a sense.
You know, when you quit thegame, people think you turned
bitch.
People think you're not thesame person.
People think you're lying.
People think you that's a wholelot.
People get mad because youwon't supply them.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
All types of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:36:15):
You get all type of things from that.
So I mixed all that into brushand then I just made it painting
instead of rapping, becausethen I felt like it would had
been like get rich or die trying.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
So I just painted and then that's how I went from
there okay, so what was, likeyou know, that thing did
phenomenal on netflix.
To the point, it was true thatwas backfire oh, that was
backfired my bad, my bad brushwas the hood classic joint Brush
was the hood joint.
Yeah, because that's myfavorite, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:36:49):
That's a lot of people's favorites still.

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Yeah, that's my favorite Brush.
Brush was different and it'sfunny because you was selling
DVDs of Brush Everywhere,driving everywhere, everywhere,
and everybody thought the DVDgame was over.
I drove to South Carolina.

Speaker 4 (01:37:03):
Darby, every parts of Philly, virginia, New York.
I drove to New York and soldHollow to Don Mav Hoffa and all
them.
I drove to New York to sell toMurder Mook.

Speaker 1 (01:37:14):
I drove to sell to Murder Mook.

Speaker 4 (01:37:15):
Them call me like yo bring me my movie, like I would
drive out there to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:37:20):
Drive to.

Speaker 1 (01:37:20):
Jersey Drive to New York.

Speaker 4 (01:37:24):
You a different animal bro Drive everywhere.
Bro.
I made $50 for an animal driveeverywhere, bro I was.
I made 50 000 off brush thefirst month just driving
everywhere.
I woke up and drove everywhereafter I tackled philly.
Then I just started going tochester and williamsport, easton
, norristown what year was that?
2000, and what 14.

(01:37:48):
I'm about to say it had to belike 13, 14 whatever, right
before the dvd era faded outbecause I tried it with backfire
and it completely faded out.
But this, this was the era whenthey still had to stand in
front of max's and everybody hadbootleg you go get, you get
your steak and come outside andpick your movie.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
All right so.
So so backfire, the game done,changed.
But yeah, hustle was different,different.

Speaker 4 (01:38:11):
Yeah, I know nothing about platform, you done made a
whole movie you done got direct.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
You done directed the whole movie.
You don't got actors to comeout and act.
Now you ready to put it out.

Speaker 4 (01:38:24):
It's like I gotta the hustle different now I know
that at first I still pressed alot of them up, sold them, still
got, had a lot left over.
But like I said, man, I'm gonnareiterate on that when you
ambitious and you won't stop,bro that's my company name won't
quit ent inc.
When you don't quit and youkeep going, another door gonna

(01:38:44):
open because you justpersistently knocking.
You know, know, I'm saying so.
That's when I learned about theplatforms.
That's now I got lawyers andagents and stuff like that.
Now you, learning about that,start learning the game, like I
gotta learn this game.
Then you start hittingplatforms and you start hitting
on.
You know, I was on for us by us.
I was on urban flicks, I was onon-demand and all that type

(01:39:07):
stuff strange start doing that,you start streaming.

Speaker 3 (01:39:10):
You know what I'm saying yeah, you going crazy you
ain't let, you ain't let the uhpivot and you ain't let it stop
, you like, even though it was alittle bump in the road, you
just said no, I'm going, I'mgoing to continue to keep going
and learn this that's the that's, and if that wouldn't have

(01:39:30):
worked out, I probably wouldhave been doing something else
right, right, because you'regoing, you're going to always
find it something else andwhat's the last one?

Speaker 4 (01:39:38):
what's the no, it's two more, oh uh, backfire, that
was the one I was on netflix.
Then I did jenny, jenny, thenafter jenny I did dope girls.
Then at the dope girls I didwas three more.
Yeah, yeah, three more, andthen I just finished my last
film my last one, my latest filmaccess dang damn you're real,

(01:39:58):
you're knocking them out.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
You're really on some with that shoe and them and not
getting them out.
Change that?

Speaker 2 (01:40:03):
battery without saving it no, no, no.
We good now, we good now, whenhe died black went 5 000 to come
back down he's out here talkingall that love, all right.
But look though no real, thoughAll right, but look though no

(01:40:24):
real shit though, make surey'all share, like, subscribe,
comment, repost tag, because ifyou don't, you a motherfucking
hater.
Why?
Because it's free man.
Y'all needs to already know wegot Black De Niro sitting down
with us.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
F-a finest, you already know what it is man.

Speaker 2 (01:40:43):
But listen, black, all these movies, you shoot them
right, it's a, it's a, it's awhole, it's a thing to it,
though, like once you get it,you got it, and once you get
your cycle together, it's likeriding a bike can't nobody tell

(01:41:03):
you how to do it.
No more, you feel me.
So what you?
Even in the game from the DVDgame, wham, all right, this, all
I got to do shoot the movie,press it up, get the press right
, wham, put it out, and then itchange digitally.
It's hard because you don'tknow the information.
So now you got to go find outthe information.

(01:41:24):
No, not really.

Speaker 4 (01:41:27):
What happens is you don't worry about where it's
gonna go and how it's gonna gothere.
You worry about the project.

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
It's the body of work .

Speaker 4 (01:41:34):
It's the body of work .
That's why you see, my moviesdon't look like the typical
movies.
It's about putting love into itand money into it and putting
quality time into it.
So when you learn thefundamentals of of the films,
first take it back to thefundamentals and then you learn
different techniques of actingand you learn things that used

(01:41:54):
to be a sponge and pick up gamesfrom really from I don't want
to say real directors, but Iwasn't a real director to me.
So, like people that's been inthe game longer than me how
about that?
Or people that you know, youlearn project management.
You start learning differentthings and try to.
You know how to film, learningstuff just around being anything
, and when you make that greatbody of work, no matter what it

(01:42:16):
is, if it's good, it's gonnafind a way somewhere somebody
might say, oh, this, you, youdid this, and then boom, you
know I mean my point is issaying that you you pretty much
doing this like it's around thebike.

Speaker 2 (01:42:31):
He got it.
I got a flow right now I got aflow.

Speaker 4 (01:42:33):
I'm about to really shake him up at the access.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
You actually currently in the mix of putting
a movie out now.

Speaker 4 (01:42:41):
Yeah, we just wrapped up Access That'll be at the top
of 2025.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
All right and after that I'm saying to say shout out
to Goods.

Speaker 4 (01:42:49):
Shout out to T-Rock.
Shout out to Murder Payne.
Shout out to Gravy you nasty.

Speaker 3 (01:42:56):
Shout out to Beyond Beauty.

Speaker 2 (01:42:58):
Look, I wanted to shout them out, let me get them
Hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
Let me get them Hold on.

Speaker 3 (01:43:02):
Let me get them a trivia.

Speaker 2 (01:43:13):
Who on who gravy?

Speaker 1 (01:43:13):
gravy.
You know, gravy the biggie bull.
Oh, oh god, you got it.
I was asking my plan, you know,I know this.
I wasn't asking you.
Oh, I was asking no, gravy.
People don't know, a lot ofpeople don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:43:24):
He really rapped, though yeah, here, yeah here he
was really crazy, but before hewas at Mac really rapping though
.

Speaker 1 (01:43:31):
That's how I see it.

Speaker 4 (01:43:33):
Oh, that's the boy play Biggie.
He really ran out.
We had Uncle Owen like you Drehad a party downtown that John
Cross from the Fed building.

Speaker 3 (01:43:40):
OK, right.

Speaker 4 (01:43:40):
John was packed and I smashed that joint and he was
looking at me like this who?

Speaker 1 (01:43:46):
is this Damn?
All right, it's fire Shout outJamal Willard man, I'm just
going to shout them out, manShout out T-Rock.
Shout out Riva.

Speaker 4 (01:43:54):
Shout out, lady Kosh, we not going to shout out these
battle rappers and youconnected to that we talking
about films, man, but now weswitching it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
But now we switching it, we off of the films, because
you riding like a bike on that,like you really got that, you
got that down pat.
Yeah yeah, you got films downpat, bro, like that's where I
was going with the whole way ofriding a bike.
You doing it like you riding abike now, and I just want people
to know that sometimes it takeconsistency to really be where
you want to be.
It always take consistency youknow what I'm saying to really
be where you want to be, italways takes consistency.

(01:44:24):
You know what I'm saying, sojust stay at it.
Don't worry about the peopleshouting you out.

Speaker 4 (01:44:29):
Don't worry about, because eventually it'll happen.

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):

Speaker 4 (01:44:33):
Yeah, it'll be like that for everybody, though.
And it'll be like that whenit's too late, when you say you
got to do it, when it's, you gotto help you.

Speaker 2 (01:44:41):
He said, he said, he said, he said my haters like
they fans, now Fuck them, though.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
That's how it is, because your haters won't turn
into your fans after a while.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
You done.
I'm all for that.
I don't even care if you care.

Speaker 1 (01:44:53):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, but it's something
that you know I said when wetalked to Black before.

Speaker 4 (01:45:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
That I'm going to say now.
Now, before we get into thesegames and before we I mean and I
want to say this because we gotdudes sitting right here who
literally done show love to thewhole Philadelphia, like I'm
talking about any artist youname he was doing it with the

(01:45:27):
people who was popping, thepeople who was popping a little
bit, and he made people pop,people that's just starting off
and he made people oh, he was onBlack Song.
He got songs with the wholeuptown on them, stuff that was
never going to happen.
It's like I said, his bossesand then his leaders were really

(01:45:52):
a leader and there's a lot ofboth though.
No, like no, I'm talking abouthis own right here, but when it
comes to other people, a leaderand a whole type of different
People got to start putting thistype stuff on the map.
Man, and, like I said, like isall that gatekeepers this and

(01:46:14):
all that.

Speaker 4 (01:46:15):
The liberals go through the most hassle, though
they got the hardest route.
You got to go through it first.
You got the hardest route, Likeyou know.
One thing I learned about a lotof rich people.
They'll laugh and joke with you, but sometimes they just want
to see you do it yourself.
I've been around a lot ofwealthy, rich people.
You know what I'm saying andthey just what you got going.

(01:46:35):
Oh, that's what's up.
And then, unfortunately, it belike that with your peers too so
you just can't listen bro.

Speaker 3 (01:46:45):
I just want to commend you for never stopping,
bro.
Me too.
You always gave us your all inthe music and then you pivot to
the movies, and you've beenexcellent in that.
And just being like you said aleader in this shit and
Philadelphia always being one ofthose people that give a person

(01:47:06):
a shot that ain't got.
They don't have a name, thepeople with the biggest name and
the person in between, bro, soit's just.
That's a hard watch all themovies.

Speaker 4 (01:47:15):
That's a hard range all the movies typing black
dinero on to be man watch themdamn brush backfire.

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
Jenny dope girls.
What's going on?

Speaker 4 (01:47:23):
at the dark just go watch them all and go on iTunes
and watch.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
Download that Philly work I was getting to the easy
will be tossed into these games,man.
Okay, let's get into thesegames let's go.

Speaker 4 (01:47:34):
I'm answering these real quick cuz I'm alright,
let's go alright, really themost we played on this time
really the most we play thesegames.

Speaker 3 (01:47:43):
I'm here fast-track.
You ain't not too crazy.
You pick one or the other, andbecause we in philly, I gotta
start with this state propertyat major figures state property
coogee rap.
Uh, big daddy kane big daddyking g unit a dip set dip set
okay, um monica.

(01:48:03):
Okay, monica Keisha Cole.

Speaker 2 (01:48:11):
Mess this up.

Speaker 4 (01:48:15):
You might not get no for a while.
I'm going to say Keisha.

Speaker 3 (01:48:20):
Teddy Pendergrass or Marvin Gaye, teddy, hmm, okay.
Or Marvin Gaye, teddy, okay.
Mobb Deep or CNA.

Speaker 2 (01:48:36):
Mobb Deep let me go, white boy go ahead you ready?
Steen or PD Crack, p Crack.

Speaker 4 (01:48:56):
Cassidy or Goods, which way Battle.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
Rat Battle Rat.

Speaker 4 (01:49:01):
Battle Rat.

Speaker 2 (01:49:01):
Don't stop me while I'm in this booth.

Speaker 4 (01:49:04):
I ain't answering that, John.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
Yeah, that's why I did it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:11):
Because, he trying to make it seem like it's Cassidy
and Goods.
They both my guys.
I ain't answering that.
So you don't think Goods gotCassidy right now in the battle
royale world.

Speaker 1 (01:49:18):
We didn't say right now.
We didn't say right now.
You always trying to throwmustard on it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:24):
No, we ain't say right now.
So if Cassidy and Goods was the, did they?
They battle.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
We ain't say right now though.

Speaker 4 (01:49:31):
Right now.
Right now.

Speaker 1 (01:49:32):
They battle.
It's easy right now.
Right now.

Speaker 3 (01:49:34):
I would say Goods.
Back then I would say Cass.

Speaker 1 (01:49:37):
Like Cass, they be making it too easy.
No, when?

Speaker 3 (01:49:39):
they battled, though who won?

Speaker 1 (01:49:41):
Of course Goods won.

Speaker 3 (01:49:42):
It was Cass, come on, I just wanted to know.

Speaker 1 (01:49:45):
Goods an animal right now.
Good's the animal, he an animalright now.
A lot of people ain't be himright now, but he just not the
he the underdog a lot of timesbecause he be going.

Speaker 3 (01:49:58):
He the underdog top tier Because he only do one
battle a year.
He only do one battle a year.
He battle when he want to,though.

Speaker 4 (01:50:06):
That's the difference .

Speaker 1 (01:50:07):
That battle a year exactly he battle when he wants
to, though that's the difference.

Speaker 4 (01:50:10):
That's why I like you better when he wants to what's
the next one man, oh, you justsaid who what's the?

Speaker 1 (01:50:14):
next joint bro it's just like core or bugs.
No, I said good goods or bugswhat buzzes take down records.

Speaker 2 (01:50:23):
Yeah, because they both that's let talk talk.

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
Yeah good, let's go good, say good, or buzzy slick
talks or something good, don'tjust say that like that.
What are we doing?
All right, hold on, all right,let me, let me, let me, let me,
let me get it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:36):
I gotta go back to philly.

Speaker 1 (01:50:37):
Hold on beans or gilly beans all right, joey,
joey, joey.

Speaker 3 (01:50:43):
Jahadanna reed dallas joey.

Speaker 2 (01:50:46):
Damn, you answer quick, gilly, or me don't look
at me, don't look me me.

Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
All right.
All right, I'm gonna do the onefrom last time murder mill fu
benga oh, that's the hard job.

Speaker 4 (01:51:07):
I'm gonna say murder mill because a lot of food
didn't let a lot out.
You know what I'm saying, likehe, he is different, but food
kind of lacked in delivery alittle bit okay, you know what?
I'm saying he just is powerfulwith the I can or m.

Speaker 3 (01:51:24):
I can.

Speaker 1 (01:51:26):
I can.
All right, let's do one.

Speaker 3 (01:51:28):
I love you, though.

Speaker 1 (01:51:29):
One guy, one gotta go , let's do one guy Go you ready,
one guy, get out of here.
You know, you know the dealBlack you family and each re
meet Hattie.

Speaker 4 (01:51:39):
Say that again.

Speaker 1 (01:51:41):
And they meet re re meet or had one Got it out of
here and each OK, reed, meek orHattie, one got to get out of
here.
Nh, okay, okay, okay, NH, nh,let's go, dr Dre.
Now, man, everything got to go,Everything I know, I know.
All right, dr Dre, diddy, jay-z, dr Dre, diddy, jay-z, dr Dre,

(01:52:08):
diddy and Birdman.

Speaker 4 (01:52:11):
I don't like that one .
I don't like getting rid ofJay-Z only because of state
property.

Speaker 3 (01:52:20):
That's the only reason.

Speaker 4 (01:52:22):
If they wasn't there, then they can go.

Speaker 1 (01:52:24):
That's what I said, but it's hard, though that's the
only thing I can say.
That's what I said, but it'shard, though, that's the only
thing I can say.
He did it, but Drake bring.

Speaker 4 (01:52:29):
I mean what you call it Bring too many people.
Dr Dre brought too many people.
I'm going to say Dr Dre, dr Dre.

Speaker 3 (01:52:38):
Because, I need.

Speaker 4 (01:52:40):
It got to be a 50 cent.

Speaker 3 (01:52:43):
Martin Jamie Foxx Fresh.

Speaker 4 (01:52:45):
Prince.

Speaker 3 (01:52:46):
Wayne's Brothers.

Speaker 4 (01:52:47):
Wayne's Brothers.
Wayne's Brothers?
Not all of them, man, not allof them.
Sean and the Young 2 or.

Speaker 3 (01:52:53):
The Wayne Brothers show.

Speaker 4 (01:52:55):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:52:55):
Wayne.

Speaker 4 (01:52:55):
Brothers.

Speaker 1 (01:52:56):
All right, bet All right, all right.
The one who played the show.

Speaker 4 (01:53:00):
Oh you talking about the show the Wayne Brothers?
Oh, I thought you were talkingabout the people I'm like.
No, not King or Damon, all Ithought you were talking about
people.

Speaker 1 (01:53:08):
I'm like no, not Kim and Damon, let's get it Shout
out to those two.
But you know what I'm saying?
Garci Mike Knox, he's going tolaugh twice.
Garci Mike Knox, meet Gilly.
Come on, man.
Batcave Boys, batcave Boys Outof pocket man, what can?

Speaker 3 (01:53:28):
I do Batcave boys, y'all, y'all Batcave boys Out of
pocket, man, what can I go?
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:53:30):
Batcave boys Knox got to go.
Because Knox got to go?
Because Knox will tell you likeI just know how to make money
off rap.

Speaker 1 (01:53:38):
Okay, okay, I know how to hustle.

Speaker 4 (01:53:40):
I ain't the best rapper, but I get it done.
Okay, yo man, I'm going to sayKnox, because he already you
know what I'm saying, and thenGarcia right behind him.

Speaker 1 (01:53:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Shout out.

Speaker 2 (01:53:51):
Garcia.

Speaker 1 (01:53:52):
Yo we got black in the building man.
That's my guy, like Garcia, heknows that.

Speaker 2 (01:53:58):
I'm really say no, go ahead.

Speaker 3 (01:54:00):
I'm really.

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
I'm white boy, you, when I get to the vine, make
sure y'all share.

Speaker 2 (01:54:09):
Make sure y'all share , Like, subscribe comment.
Cause if you don't you amotherfucking hater Cause.

Speaker 3 (01:54:13):
It's free we out.

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JERRY AND JOE MADE | FEAT . BLACK DENIRO | RTM PODCAST EP.20

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