Interstellar: Time Dilation Explained | S01E10

I wondered if extreme time dilation was possible like in the movie Interstellar. So I talked to an astronomy educator to see how plausible it was. Join me as Athena Brensberger takes me on a deep dive into the science of fiction. At the end of the episode Astro Athens will rank the plausibility of time dilation portrayed in Interstellar on a 1-5 scale from pure fiction- science fact.
#interstellar #timedialation #blackholes

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
All right, everybody, Welcome backto the podcast where we discuss the plausibility
of sci fi concepts with experts.Today we're exploring to science behind time dilations
near black holes in my favorite movieof all time, Interstellar. Joining us
is Athena aka astro Athens, whois an astronomer and science communicator using YouTube

(00:21):
and social media to make astronomy moreaccessible and fun for everyone. Stay with
us to the end when Athena tacklesour burning question, is time dilation portrayed
on Miller's planet scientifically accurate? Withoutfurther ado, let's get ready for another
mind blowing episode of reality Chat fallThanks prepared for hypercrime activating activity does engage

(00:44):
director of relay your late for lightspeedlightsmeat it's too slow? All right,
Reality Chat, Hey silliens, allf Now we have all seen Interstellar,
But did you know that director ChristopherNolan used some original clips from a twenty
twelve documentary by Ken Burns called TheDust Bowl. These were the interviews that
were played at the beginning scenes ofthe movie that ended up being on the

(01:07):
space station later on in the movie. And I think that this is just
such a beautiful example of how thelines between science fiction and science fact are
beginning to blur. So that ismy fun movie fact of the day.
And now I want to ask afina. I want to hear some of
your initial thoughts of this movie.I know we're both total science nuts and

(01:30):
space nuts, So tell me whatyou think about Interstellar. I want to
hear your reactions the first time yousaw and just how you fell about the
movie. Now. I mean,like every space third, I'm obsessed with
the movie. I've watched it probablyi'd say five times. I wanted to
say ten, but not ten justyet. I've probably watched about five times.

(01:52):
And my first time watching it wasactually like a really funny experience.
I didn't tend to actually see themovie. I was actually with the friends
of mine and we were watching SherlockHolmes and we just got so bored during
the movie that we left the theaterand went to go see another movie,
and we stumbled upon a distellar andwere mine blowed. I mean, I

(02:15):
just like had an existential crisis.I was like, I don't remember how
there was I was definitely like lateteens, I think early twenties, and
was just blown away. And wewalked in maybe like thirty minutes into the
movie, but so right around thetime they launch, it was gosh,
yeah, what what part was that? I mean it was there was still

(02:37):
they were still within the cornfield.There were definitely I think still in the
cornfield. At this point, Murphyhad just left school, and I think
the weird gravitation effects started happening withthe sand in the bedroom, and I
was like, whoa, what didwe just walk in on? And yet
that movie just moved me, Imean like spoke to my soul from the

(03:00):
get go. But every time Irewatch it now, I feel like I'm
learning something new or I'm seeing somethingnew that I hadn't noticed before. So
watching it with fresh eyes is justlike always so great. It's it's always
the best, the best thing.But other other I guess reactions about it.
I think what got me so excitedabout it was really just like the

(03:22):
animations and the visuals of like beingable to see these concepts that I had
like watched lectures on, that Ihad learned about in class, things that
I've studied and read on, andto see it actually visualized in a movie
was just like so incredible. Notto like really give any spoilers to anyone

(03:43):
who hasn't watched it, so I'llkind of go around the bush for this
one. But just like you know, near the the ends, there's just
a weird things sort of happening withthe way that the ground basically is.
I guess I'll just sort of saythat without actually giving away too much.
And it just kind of blew mymind to be able to picture reality in
this very curved way, in avery different way than what we were used

(04:08):
to. I totally agree. Itotally agree. I mean it like broke
my brain. Yeah, now thatI've seen it so many times after having
that first experience of it kind ofbeing accidental, I still am just blown
away by some of the animations thatare in the movie, specifically towards the
end when they're at Cooper's station andthe O'Neill cylinder, which is that you

(04:30):
know, cylinder bowl shaped space stationthat's we're obtaining to create artificial gravity.
It was so cool to just seethis because I've seen like, you know,
pretty low quality illustrations done of it, but never actually animated in the
way like that the movie did toreally make it look real. It felt
like I was actually there. Itfelt like it was real. So that

(04:53):
was that was so cool. That'sprobably one of my my favorite parts of
the movie. Honestly. Yeah,it truly is amaz and it's like,
again, this is why I lovedoing this podcast, because it's like,
how close are we to those futures? And maybe that'll be another episode we
do down the road. I caninterview an engineer and just talk about how
close we are to a space stationlike that, but you are here to

(05:15):
talk about something a little bit moremysterious, a little bit more terrifying.
Black holes. We know they exist, so that par is a science fact,
but nobody truly knows what a blackhole is. And I guess can
you just explain to us what ablack hole is with maybe a junior high

(05:41):
level explanation. Yeah, black holesdefinitely are still such a mysionary. That
is totally true. I think thatwhat's been fascinating is that we've been able
to image them, or at leastthe accretion discs in the event horizon of
a black culture. We'll get itto all that it but what really kind
of blows me away is that ablack hole forms through the death of a

(06:08):
star, and there are other blackholes that may have formed other ways,
such as two black holes colliding andmaking a man sized black hole. Yeah
yeah, and this actually was confirmedrecently. There actually was an observation of
this. This is known as anintermediate black hole. And that's like a
medium sized black holes when two smallerblack holes collide and they form into one,

(06:30):
which I think is actually kind ofbeautiful to sort of think about.
But with smaller yeah, but smallerblack holes like stellar mass black holes.
They're called stellar mass because it's comesfrom a star that had died and basically
starred. Like our son, theyhave this nice balance, this equilibrium of

(06:51):
outward force and inward force, andso it kind of stays at it's its
nice shape, the dute of twodifferent forces, basically our gravity, that's
the inward force pulling in and thenradiation or energy caused by nuclear fusion,
which is from its core. It'sfusing atoms together, generating a bunch of

(07:13):
energy and it's pushing outward. Butwhat happens with some stars yeah yeah,
yeah, So like our son,it has this nice balance between these two
so it's like at equilibrium, andso it's able to stay pretty stable,
generate enough heat for us to survivehere on Earth and be nice and warm,
get a stun tan. But withcertain stars that are massive enough,

(07:39):
really really big. I mean,like imagine maybe ten of our sons combined
together, all their masks, they'reable to fuse bigger atoms, heavier elements
such as iron. But when itgets up to fusing ironed atoms, it
actually can't fuse anything beyond that atom. And what happens is it starts to
gain a lot of mass. It'sgaining a lot of mass of iron elements,

(08:03):
iron atoms, and so it's gettingbigger and bigger. But what's happening
is as it gets more massive,it's gravity is getting even stronger. But
since it can no longer fuse anymore elements in its core, then it's
not having that outward force. It'sonly having the inward force, which is

(08:26):
gravity. So now we're not balancedanymore. What happens is it reaches a
point of critical mass and it collapsesinto a black hole. So that seems
I can never I have never understoodactually how that worked. Like I knew
about the black hole. I've seenthe diagrams on Instagram and like the memes
where it shows like the gravity ofa black hole, but it's just like

(08:46):
a joke for like my depression,and it's like, so I always knew
about the gravity part, but Inever actually realized that there was the opposing
force. So that is new informationto me, and that's super interesting.
And also I think it's really likeit's crazy how you said, like our
sun has that on like a miniaturescale. So it's like every single sun

(09:07):
is already sort of prepped to becomea black hole one day, possibly and
not necessarily, Like our sun won'tbecome a black hole, and it has
to do with its size that it'sat right now. Most stars that will
become black holes tend to be alreadymuch more massive. Ours is a pretty

(09:31):
medium size star, and actually whenit dies, it's going to grow into
a red giant star. But what'sgoing to happen is it's going to start
to cool down as it starts toget bigger, and it's instead of it
getting bigger and collapsing, it's actuallygoing to start to shed its outer layers,
like how an onion shuck you canpeel out like the different layers of

(09:54):
an onion. That's kind of what'sgoing to happen with our Sun when it
starts to expand, and it's goingto start to lose a lot of its
outer layers, all its elements,and it's going to puff out into something
called the planetary nebula. And soit's going to be really big, about
a thousand light years of light,So it's gonna span far beyond our solar
system when it becomes a nebula.But what's beautiful about this is that it

(10:18):
can it's like a recycling process.Is like all of these you know,
layers and elements that it, youknow, starts to release are seeds for
new star life, and so newbaby stars can start to form from these
elements that came from the dead stars, such as when our sun dies.
So pretty pretty cute thing there.That is cute because I've always seen,

(10:41):
like I always loved Horsehead Nebula forwhatever reason. I was a horse girl
growing up, so like Horsehead Nebulaand I have a special connection. And
I so I didn't realize that.I thought nebulas came before stars. But
it sounds like it's a cycle,Like it's like it's like Nebula star Nebula.
Yes, exactly, It's kind oflike we well keep first the chicken
of the egg because you're like,all the nebula does come before the star,

(11:01):
but then before that was also astar. So that's that's what brings
us all the way to the BigBang and trying to rewind time to see
what really started to deform first,which actually were right now. The theory
is that it was small particles,quantum particles bigger than that atoms, and
then really really more like molecules startedto form. Those started to collide together,

(11:26):
and then there was like this constantkind of exploding and collapsing. Apparently
that was uh that right now,this is what I understand is what was
happening at this time. I justlike to imagine there's a lot of collapsing
and exploding that was happening at theearly universe, and there was a lot
of heat, a lot of elements, new elements were being born, and

(11:48):
from that, new stars were beingborn, and then stars were colliding,
forming bigger things and eventually yeah,gas clouds, collisions of stars, nebulae
potentially no, probably not planets yet, but yeah, just just a lot,
a lot of a lot of hotand dense stuff happened. Yeah,
yeah, and and all of thewell, and it's like like there's like

(12:11):
all the matter and then all ofthe different pieces that came together as well.
Like like like what I'm kind oflike going towards now is it's like,
Okay, when did gravity show up? When did time show up?
When did forces show up? Likejust like our natural forces? And that
I think fascinates me a little bitbecause it sounds like time and gravity go

(12:33):
hand in hand. Yes, yes, definitely, And I think all the
questions that you just asked when sortof they're they're kind of answered through like
the big Bank theories. It's rightnow, it stands that time started when
the Big Bang happens. That gravityalso started when the Big Bang happened.

(12:54):
That things started to expand, thingsstarted to form, and that's how we
under stand time, that's how weprocess time. And so if you really
were to sort of date back accordingto how long things live in the universe,
it would show that, well,things first started to form around the
thirteen point eight billion years ago.It's just the current estimate. So it's

(13:16):
not that yeah, all those thingsactually happened at a critical point of existence.
But the bigger question is, like, well, was there something before
that? Because as we just talkedabout with the nebula and the stars or
nebulae plural nebulas. Either way,there's a Nebula star, Nebula star,
Nebula star. Was it universe nouniverse, universe no universe or was it

(13:41):
like a collapse like big crunch andthat big bang, big crunch, big
bang, big crunch, big Bag'sthat's what really keeps me up. Oh
yeah, I absolutely, Like Ihate, like I just got goosebumps everywhere
right now because whenever you think abouttime, you were like, yeah,
but what was before that? It'sjust like humans can not comprehend, like

(14:03):
our minds cannot comprehend outside of time. Like I actually remember as a child
the first time, I was justlike laying on my bed one day like
reading horsebooks, and then I waslike time and I had this like total
little crisis at seven years old,and I was like trying to comprehend it,
and I just remember I was likecrying. I was like my head
hurts. It's just so hard tothink about an infinity and yeah, yeah

(14:28):
it is. There's a proposal notto digress too much by Hawking has to
do a lot with black hole.Stephen Hawking it's no longer with us today,
but he was working out a proposalright before it passed away called the
no boundary proposal, And this reallyblows me away. I've made a couple
of YouTube videos on it, justtruly trying to understand it. The first
time I heard about it was ata lecture during the World Science Festival in

(14:50):
New York, and it's one ofthere's a bunch, it's like a week
of awesome lectures from a bunch ofdifferent quantum physicists and astrophysicists as well,
And this was the first time Iheard about the no battery proposal, which
basically says that rather than there beinga point of non existence that then responded
into existence, that there actually alwayswas some form of infinite existence, That

(15:15):
there was something that had already likesome form of matter, some form of
space, that may have existed beforeour concept of time did, and that
a time clock eventually began, andthen once that began, it may have
caused the sort of effect of expansionand the universe to grow into what it
is today. And that's my basicunderstanding. The proposal is just so much

(15:39):
more dense than than what I justsaid. But I have not doing research
with the Stephen Hawking at the momentso well. And that's just the thing
is, it's like, yeah,like in Einstein and a Hawking, like,
minds like that are few and farbetween, and it's like, you
know, us common folk, it'svery hard for us to come things like

(16:00):
that. Like I'm not saying thatlike any of us are dumb. I'm
saying we're all really really smart.But those concepts are just that challenging to
wrap our brains around. And Idon't think the human mind is entirely equipped
to think about things that are completelyoutside of our existence, and trying to
understand time and time space is Ithink one of those things. I think

(16:22):
time is one of the hardest thingsfor humans to comprehend because it's totally untangible
and we exist within it, likewe exist within time more than anything else,
like any other element, sorry,not element, but like law.
We're almost like learning how to controlit. In some ways. It's like
we're flirting with controlling gravity, We'reflirting with controlling different things. But it's

(16:45):
like time is our absolute master andwe cannot change that yet. But yeah,
but there are theories out there,and especially like what's portrayed in Interstellar
when they land on Miller's planet,there's the whole fiasco that happens and they

(17:07):
go down there and they're like,hey, one minute down there's what was
it seven years up here? Somethinglike something like that. I actually can't
remember. Sorry, listeners, Yes, your CoRIS can correct me in the
comments. And if you guys dohave the correct answer to that, please
drop a comment let me know.And while we're at that, if you
guys are enjoying this conversation, pleaselike, listen, subscribe, share.

(17:29):
This is a new podcast and theonly way that YouTube, Spotify, Apple
and any of those other platforms orgoing to discover us is if you guys
like and share. So that's mytwo second pitch. Let's jump back into
Miller's planet. So they go downto this planet and there's the whole you
know issue with she, you know, she wanted to go get the research,

(17:52):
and then they had the issue withthe waves. And then when they
go back up it had been somuch time that had passed, and I
I think that that part of themovie. My husband absolutely hated it,
like he was like, why areyou watching this movie. It's awful.
I'm like, but this is thegood stuff, Like, this is the
deep exexstential, like cosmic horror thatI just live for. So can we

(18:15):
just say, can we talk alittle bit about how time works around gravity
and its connection? And I alsolike, if there was anything you were
getting to please finish your thoughts onthose two. But I'm just so curious
about time's interaction with gravity. Yeah, I mean that's such a big thing

(18:40):
to unpack. I mean the movie, I think that's such a great job
of kind of I would say,even just conveying the emotional aspect of it
and to sort of tie just alittle bit back to how you're saying,
like the way that our minds werecompared to say, like eindest and hawking
is. I think it's two maincomponents, and one is like extreme open

(19:00):
mindedness, where I think we tendto really restrict ourselves because of this confinement
of time and understanding that. Butif we can remove that concept of time
for just a moment, or atleast pretend two, then we might be
able to have a bit more insightinto how these things are really happening,
how these things are existing how Hawkingand Eypline had been able to understand this,

(19:21):
And I think that the main toolsfor that is one mathematics. That
is, I mean, theoretical physicsis based in mathematics, like very very
heavily, And that's how I wouldsay Hawking and Eyesline had been able to
really put this to language. Alot of these discoveries, a lot of
these theories and realizations. I mean, Einstein predicted black holes before the first
black hole was ever discovered. Hewrote his paper on special relativity in nineteen

(19:47):
oh five, then published it withgravity on general relativity in nineteen fifteen,
and also with the help of mathematics. And just one more small bit I
would say is also artificial intelligence mightbe able to really help give us that
bit of insight where we are prettylimited by our sort of humanness that I
almost wonder if sort of this,this, this, this other way of

(20:10):
thinking, this, the way thatartificial intelligence works might be able to play
a role with mathematics to actually helpbreak this all down into a language that
US humans can understand. So that'ssomething that I think would be really interesting
down the road, if that evenmakes any sense. What you know that
us no Actually I understand what yousaid completely because it's like I'm like playing

(20:33):
around with things like mid Journey andchat GPT and it's you know, I
will always say that the human mindis the most incredible thing in existence.
Like I I'm a fan of humans, but I also love the tools that
we have invented that can produce creativeanswers that we can't quite comprehend real to
check any science of fiction. You'reso, you're you're student, you're studying

(20:59):
all of this. Is there anyconversation in the astronomy or astrophysics world about
specific AI that they might be usingto discover some of these answers? Like,
I don't think it's CHATGVT, gosh. You know, there definitely are
ways that I can play a reallyimportant role, and I'm just thinking one
back to my research I did firstas an undergraduate at the Hayden Planetarium in

(21:19):
New York, and it was Iremember the first time I learned how to
code a Python language. I firsstarted learning about Python language, and I
had to basically sift through so muchdata that came in through the Hubble Space
telescope. I was studying protoplanetary discsat the time, and just thinking about
how that program had to run,I had to go back update it constantly.

(21:42):
Where if you used artificial intelligence asa tool, just sort of write
a command, say hey, stipthrough all this data, find these parameters,
you know, so much information couldbe gathered within a fraction of the
time that it would have taken inprior ways of studying the cosmos, in
prior ways of sifting through data basically, And so there's definitely ways I bet

(22:04):
today that astrophysicists are using artificial intelligenceto help bring themselves closer to information about
the cosmos. I definitely don't doubtit. I can't really name a few
up the top of my head thatI exactly know of, but that's just
an example that I personally had experiencewith and how I imagine that AI could
definitely play a good role. SoI bet, I bet that there's ways.

(22:26):
I did just see I gotta doublecheck this, but I saw scrolling
on Instagram and saw some kind ofposts about AI discovering some kind of I
think it was a supernova explosion thathadn't been detected yet by astronomers. I'm
curious. I'm not unconfirmed if youguys confirmed it, you know, comment
it below. I'll double check it. I did come across that Instagram,
just haven't had a moment to lookinto it just yet saw it this morning.

(22:48):
But if that's true, that wouldbe pretty awesome. I'd say that
is cool. That is cool.Yeah, so yeah, the AI is
awesome. So so let's get backto Yes, the relationship between time and
gravity, because that's that's one It'slike I feel like I have like probably
like a second grader's understanding of it, but uh, it's it's still hard

(23:11):
to wrap my head around. Canyou explain that more to me and just
the average listener, because that's yourthat's your jam girl. Yeah. Yeah,
so I guess kind of going backwardstoo, or I'm talking about like
unpacking how the the the movie reallystarted to kind of break down time delation.
What I was gonna say back thenwas just that I think it really

(23:32):
touched on an emotional part of thehuman experience during that movie, which was
when you mentioned Heidi already seeing theage that Robley went through, which was
that one astronaut who stayed on thison the Space Shuttle or space station.
I think it was just the spaceshipas the other two went down to Miller's

(23:53):
planet and they came back and hewas just so much older. And so
that was Number one. Kind ofhit the tone of what time daily should
can feel like as an experience,what it looks like, how we process
it, but not what actually ishappening. So the way I like to
think about it. And I didsee this in a NASA doctav post.

(24:17):
There's a blog post basically saying I'mgoing to actually just read the quote real
quick and said time can change.Time passes slower as you're approaching a body
of mass in space, and sobody of masses and space, as we
mentioned before, they have a gravitationaleffect on things around them. Thinking about
how the Moon is orbiting around Earth. Because the Earth is bigger than the

(24:42):
Moon, the Earth has a lotof gravitational effect on the Moon. It's
slightly curving space time and it's pullingthe Moon in towards us. If you've
ever seen sort of an example ofsomeone stretching a fabric like a pair of
leggings or something like that, andyou put a heavy object in the middle,

(25:03):
I mean we're talking about weight here. We're on Earth, so we
have the acceleration due to gravity.Here, I'll break all that down just
the moment. But and you puta few marbles on that fabric, the
marbles are going to get pulled intowards that, you know, more massive
object. That's kind of a goodway to sort of think about the concept
of general relativity is that a bodyof mass and space will quite literally cause

(25:26):
the fabric of space time to warp. And what that is again just meaning
is it has a gravitational effect onthings around it, and it's attracting them
towards it. So think about howthe Sun has these eight planets, these
eight main bodies spinning around it,orbitting around it. And that's because the

(25:48):
Sun has such a large mass comparativeto the planets that it has a very
strong gravitational effect on us. Nowspecifically not using the word, we can
definitely use the workforce, but itreally is kind of affecting the other planets,
pulling them in towards it, towardsthe Sun and we're spinning around it.
But time dilation is this concept thatas you are around different bodies of

(26:15):
mass in space, time is gonnabe a little different comparative to wherever you're
maybe from. So, for fromEarth, we're used to time moving at
a certain pace. Here on Earth, for us, we live for one
hundred years. But if you're onsay another planet, or you're around a
black hole, time is going tobe a lot different compared to here on

(26:41):
Earth. And a pretty i guess, sort of small example I'd like to
mention is sort of thinking about howlong does it take you to drive to
your local grocery store. So ifyou are moving probably an average of like
maybe thirty five miles per hour,that's a pretty common speed limit for sort
of like residential roads. You're movingthirty five miles per hour, and you're

(27:03):
going to hit a few stoplights,it might take you maybe five minutes to
get to the grocery store. Whatif you limited yourself to only driving five
miles per hour, you're going tobe moving a lot slower, and so
it's going to probably take you closerto maybe like fifteen to twenty minutes to
get to that grocery store. Andso what happens here is, say now

(27:26):
you're close to a black hole.To you, you're perceiving time as moving
slower. But for all your friendsback on Earth, you're actually moving much
faster than your friends back on Earth. That's my kind of general understanding of
a pod dilation is working. There'sdefinitely more we can get it. We

(27:49):
can get into this. I didwrite a few more out so I've got
a few more points to start ofmention here. But that's that's a general
idea to start with to try anddigest, I guess, and that does
make a lot of sense to me, so because it's like, it seems
like in theory we can move forwardin time because if somebody's on a planet

(28:14):
where time is sped up like Miller'splanet, and somebody else is away from
that gravitational influence, the ones whoare on that planet are essentially moving faster.
They're moving at a faster speed,and then when they rejoin they're friends
outside of that time influence. They'veessentially traveled through time. But we could
not, let's say, hypothetically travelbackwards through time. Is that correct?

(28:38):
Yeah? I mean, no one'sdone it, and I think even theoretically
would not be possible because there's nota point of slowing time down so much
where you can actually reverse it fromI think as much information is out there
when it comes to time dilation,comes to really comparing two different clocks,

(29:03):
It comes to comparing one clock inone location at another clock in another location
and seeing if one of them isgoing to be fastened than the other,
versus actually rewinding your very own existenceto a point where you can go backwards.
But there is one more thing Idid want to mention, which is
it's a little bit of a nota diagram. It's a small demo and

(29:26):
Hidi, well, I'm not sureyou'll be able to necessarily see it,
but i'll explain it for also ourlisteners. Here, I'm holding up my
mousepad and I marked two points onmy mousepad with two posts that notes.
One of them is the letter A, one is the letter B. And
we're going to turn this into ablack hole. But what we're going to
do first is we're going to takeour ruler and I'm going to just go

(29:48):
ahead and measure how many inches it'sgoing to take to get from one from
point A to point B. Sofrom end to end, we're gonna say
that's about nine inches, So nineinches, and we are flat. This
mousepad is totally flat. It's onone straight plane. Based on new In's

(30:11):
first law of motion, an objectis going to continue moving in a straight
direction and a straight plane unless it'sbeen disturbed or touched by anything else.
And so objects generally are going tobe moving untouched in one direction. Body
motion stays in motion. So what'shappening now is with black holes. The

(30:32):
gravity is so intense. I'm nowwarping my mousepad and bending it to a
point where A and B are nearlytouching. They are super close to one
another. Now I take my rulerand measure the distance between these two and
they've now come to about four inches. So now it looks like the distance

(30:56):
is gone from nine inches to fourinches. This is, again theoretically,
what is happening within the worm,within the black hole, excuse me,
within the black hole. Time,the very fabric of space is being warped.
And since space and time are acontinuum, they have always been linked
together those two words space and time. You can't meet your friends at a

(31:18):
location without telling them what time you'remeeting them. You can't meet someone at
a certain time without telling them whichlocations to meet them at. Space and
time have been continually interlaces with eachother, and so if we have a
body of masks large enough that's warpingthe fabric of space time. You are
now shortening the amount of time thatit takes to travel from point A to

(31:41):
point B. So kind of likewhat I mentioned earlier, if you're going
thirty five miles per hour, you'regonna get there five minutes. If you're
going five miles per hour, you'regonna probably get there in fifteen twenty minutes.
It's going to take you a longertime. So this is another way
I like to sort of conceptualize what'shappening when it comes to time dilation,
what's happening when it comes to blackholes. Most of the understanding of black

(32:01):
holes is that their mass, andwe'll get into a few masses like the
black hole at the center of ourgalaxy, their mass is so so big
compared to Earth, so big comparedto the Sun, that for us small
humans, things are going to beextremely strong gravitationally and extremely warped space time

(32:27):
wines, and that time is justgoing to feel so different compared to here
on Earth. And this is whereagain that theory comes in around time dilation
when it comes to black holes,when it comes to big bodies of mass
in space versus say, you know, being here on Earth, which even
small small I think there's been smallpercentages measured of time dilation happening even here

(32:51):
on Earth close to the ground versushigher up elevated away from the grounds.
And I don't have all that too. Yes, yeah, I've seen the
diagrams, you know, valleys versusmountains. There's it's barely negligible, but
there's decimal points of differences of gravity'sinfluence. So it's like maybe maybe down

(33:14):
the road researchers and longevity can figureout optimal elevation points for longevity. Yeah,
right, right, Yeah, Ithink I saw the percentage. I
believe, and and maybe if someonecan comment it below, but I think
I saw zero point zero four orzero point zero zero four percent of a
difference of time dilation from the groundup to a pretty high altitude. I

(33:39):
don't exactly know what altitude was,buffs looking something up before this, and
I did come across that number asfar as what's been measured here on Earth.
So that's again, you know,not certain super easy to really comprehend,
but it has been measured it andit does exist, so that's pretty
pretty fascinating to really think about.So, island time really is a thing?

(34:00):
It slows down thinking her onto something. I think Margarita's helped with that
too. Definitely. No, thatis super that is super interesting, and
you explain that in such a likeit's such an easy way that I actually
don't feel like I have a followup question. I'm like, oh,
yeah, that makes sense. Iunderstand, and I know that it's not

(34:22):
as simple as that, but theydo say that, you know, somebody
who truly understands a concept can makeit seem easy, and black holes in
time and space are some of themost challenging concepts for us to think of.
So thank you so much for explainingthat to me and everybody else in
such a simple way for us todigest. I'm I am kind of curious

(34:43):
though, because you have a lotof experiences like an influencer and an educator,
and you work you work with alot of different people to help teach
about astronomy and astrophysics theories. Isthe public's perception of black holes? Has
it been like affected by media orare there any really big like myths or

(35:05):
misconceptions that you'd like to address,Because I just think that Hollywood can do
such a great job of educating ormisinforming people about really everything. Yeah,
definitely, which is why I thinkso many people applauded to Expeller, because
they just did such a good jobof really making it like closely scientifically accurate,

(35:29):
or at least as close to thetheories say currently. But I would
say the general consensus is a lotof people are so curious about black holes.
It is like one of the hottesttopics I think on YouTube. It's
like it's such a fun topic totalk about. I'm constantly getting questions about
it. I constantly have questions aboutit also, And I think that there

(35:49):
are definitely a few a few mythsout there. One specifically that I was
pointed out this was pointed out tome when I was in high school by
my first astronomy teacher, and itwas black holes don't suck and and it
was kind of also a joke becauseit's like, cause they're awesome, but
it was more just that, likeit was more just that, like they're
not like pulling things in from spaceper se. There's actually a point of

(36:15):
no return with black holes called thevent horizon, and it's actually Once you
pass that, then you're like completelygonna get pulled in by the true black
hole, the actual black hole thatis somewhere deep, deep within that dark
space. But if you're just outsidethat event horizon, you're actually like good

(36:37):
to go, Like you're fine,You're apparently not going to get pulled in
because black holes are not they're nota vacuum cleaner. They're not sucking things
in. There's not this you know. Yeah, so it's it's a little
bit different than kind of I thinkthis perception that you know, black holes
are strong, they're attracting things in. We're talking about gravity. And and

(36:57):
although this is true because of arounda black hole, there tends to be
a lot of accumulated matter and alot of stuff that tends to pull around
it, which increases gravity because it'sincreasing mass. But the black hole itself,
there's sort of this safety zone thator danger zone. I guess that's
safety zone, you know what apast it because that's dangerous. The danger
zone the event horizon, the pointthat return, and that's that region that

(37:22):
once you do cross over that it'sthat an area where the gravitational effect,
you know, the gram situal effectshave been measured to be so powerful that
from our understanding, it's moving sofast that it excels light speed that the

(37:43):
only way anything can escape would haveto move faster than light speed, and
as of right now, that isour cosmic speed limit. There's been nothing
that's been measured to move faster thanthe speed of light in a vacuum,
which is three hundred thousand kilometers asecond. And so because of this,
you know, we might not reallyhave any luck of traveling through a black

(38:06):
hole and making it out like theydid an interstellar to bring us back to
them. That you know, thatthat was an interesting thing that I think
really stood out to me. Butthere's so much mystery about black holes.
Who knows. Maybe it's possible thatthat, you know, a spaceship could
travel through a black hole and actuallysurvive, but right now it's not necessarily

(38:28):
likely unless that spaceship happened to havemoved faster than light speed, in which
case, according to Einstein, ifan object is moving close to the speed
of light, like a body ofmass like you and me were made of
mass, that's the amount of materialcomposed of an object. If we're moving
close to the speed of light,we're actually going to be accumulating more matter

(38:50):
because we're while we're passing through alot of things in space, so we're
going to be accumulating that, orwe're going to get bigger. And so
as we get bigger, when welearned earlier are gravitational, of fact,
their gravitational force gets stronger, whichmeans it would take more energy to move
faster. And so it's kind ofthis like this this like paradox almost.
It's it's like if you're going tobe yeah, so it's like, if

(39:13):
you're gonna going to get bigger,then you need more energy to move faster,
but you can't get any more energybecause you're bigger, and so you're
getting slowed down because of your gravity. And so so oh right now there's
it's not known that we can movefaster than the speed of light. Yeah,
that makes me think of like youknow, you see hummingbirds like zipping
around they're so fast, and thenyou think about giants and how they're like

(39:37):
raw, like it's almost like there'sslow motion. It's like, so that's
an interesting point and then it justlike this is a total like side note.
But the book by Michael Crichton sphearthere is a very and I'm not
going to ruin that book at allbecause it is my probably my favorite book,
but there's a very interesting discovery inthat book early on where they stumble

(40:00):
upon a ship that conceptually was travelingthrough black holes. And there's some very
interesting conceptual technologies developed on that shipto allow those explorers to travel through black
holes. That is I'm going toprobably do a whole episode on sphere one
day because I love it so much. But you should like, it's super

(40:22):
interesting stuff. So so it soundslike there's that safe zone. But don't
black holes do they get bigger?Well, that's a really good question.
So right now, the theory isthat as more matter falls into the black
hole, because more matter is beingyou know, attracted in towards thatta,

(40:43):
you know, that surrounding area aroundthe event horizon, and if matter keeps
falling into the black hole, holdedin by the gravity and the black hole
is what's happening is that's gonna takethat one again. Right now. The
theory says that as more matter isfalling into the black hole, it is
causing the points of the black hole. Imagine you're you're kind of going down

(41:07):
a tunnel. So imagine you're fallinginto a tunnel and it's getting smaller and
smaller and smaller and smaller. Itis getting denser as more matter falls in
because it's getting more compressed. Soimagine a giant compression chamber and it's squishing
and squishing and squishing, and soright now, it's yes, they you
know, will be getting bigger.They are getting bigger as a more matter

(41:29):
falls in, but they're also gettingdenser, which means they're getting more massive,
but they're getting tinier and tinier andtinier. It's squished, so bigger
in a sense of more masks,but not in the necessarily in the sense
of size, but getting more compressedin like the middle. Again, imagine
a compression chamber and more matter isgetting pushed in and so it's getting really

(41:51):
really squashed down to this sort ofthis point of singularity is right now where
the theory is, which is thisidea that is it going to be infinitely
dense? Is there a point whereI can't get any denser that it almost
loses all concepts of surface, allconcepts of space, all concepts of time.
Is it ripping through the very ideaof what space time is. We

(42:16):
don't quite know, but we dounderstand that, yes, more matter is
falling in, so it's got tobe getting more dense within that black hole.
So kind of crazy, but Iguess the only way though, they
could get bigger is as we mentionedbefore, two smaller black holes collide,
they can form a medium sized blackhole, and that would be that intermediate

(42:37):
black hole. And those tend tobe so we'll talk about size for a
little bit. Those tend to bea few hundred solar masses. What that
just is is the mass of oursun, so taking a hundred of our
sons and squishing them together. Butthen you have super massive black holes like
Argantua the movie Interstella Interstellar, thatone. Let's see, I wrote it

(43:00):
down that one had a mass offour point two million solar masses. Wow.
Yeah, But then something really kindof crazy is oh excuse me,
no, sorry, The mass ofthe supermassive black hole of Gargantua at the
center of Interstellar was one hundred millionsolar masses. One hundred million. And

(43:22):
I want to do a little biton e gullity for a moment. Yeah,
a lot one hundred million of oursuns squashed together into a black hole.
This is what Gargantua, the fictionalblack hole is an interstellar and our
matt supermassive black hole at the centerof the Milky Way galaxy, not as
Sagittarius A, is four point twomillion solar masses. So that's four point

(43:44):
two million suns. So think aboutthat for about that million. That's so
big. Yeah, it's it's kindof hard to eaven comprehent it. Honest
slates like, how don't we go? Yeah, I'm not even gonna try
it. I'm just like, yep, it's a lot. Yeah, Well,
a really fun thing I'm gonna dolike a little shout out to us
fun software gaming software called Universe Sandbox. It's really fun to play with Universe

(44:09):
Sandbox. You're able to sort ofswap objects out with each other and you
can put like a black hole wherethe sun is and serch, see what
happens. Really cool stuff, Soyou can maybe conceptualize what that would be
like if you ever want to playwith that. Also heard Urble space program
too, Is it really fun?I love curball. That's like actually stupid

(44:30):
little games. You know. Istill haven't played it yet. Is it
just like super fun? It's justsilly, Like it's so cute because there's
like Werner Von Curball, it's likeand then oh my gosh, I just
like the va B the Vehicle Assemblybuilding. It's like you're basically playing around
in there and you're building your littlerockets. It's like, I'm like,

(44:52):
that's such a great game for kids. So like, I think more kids
should play curball and less kids shouldplay whatever bring melting games are out there
now, there's there's a lot ofthem. Yeah, So so it sounds
like if there was a black holein our solar system, we wouldn't be
at risk unless we were within thatdanger zone. Yeah. Yeah. The

(45:15):
only thing that would probably happen tous is, you know, we don't
have that warmth from the sun,so we probably freeze to death. So
we wouldn't we wouldn't survive because itwould be too cold, but we likely
wouldn't get pulled in depending on thesize of the black hole that you're putting
in place to the shun so kindof looking at like the diameter of the

(45:37):
black hole. And actually there wasa black hole that just recently took the
place of the biggest supermassive black holeever detected in our universe, not as
Phoenix A. It recently just replacedTons six one eighth, which was considered
to be the biggest super massive blackhole in the universe. And Phoenix A
is one hundred billion solar masses.Wow, so it is so much bigger

(46:01):
than Gargantua. So much bigger thanGargantua. Yeah, so really crazy.
So that's that's a pretty interesting oneto sort of think about. And I
think as a really big diameter.Also, I don't exactly know what it
is off the top of my head, but so not only is it very
massive, but it's very wide,really really wide. So I did want

(46:24):
to sort of nitpick a bit aboutlike the fictional aspect of Interstellar with comparing
our black hole with the black holein the movie, so Gargantua with Sagittarius
A. And I don't know necessarilyI'm so curious to hear if anyone else
is like bothered just trying to dothese calculations, but comparing how in the

(46:46):
movie, you know how you saidthat they mentioned that it was one hour
on around Gargantua, so on theuh on Mill's planet. So they're near
the event horizon of Gargantua, theysaid would be seven years on Earth.
Well, current estimates of Sagittarius A, our supermassive black hole at the Milky

(47:12):
Way galaxy, is that one minuteat the event horizon of the super massive
black hole Sagittarius A would be sevenhundred years on Earth. So one minute
at the yeah, at our supermassiveblack hole would be seven hundred years on
Earth, compared to the movie whichsaid one hour was seven years. And

(47:37):
this is where I have an issuebecause remember we talked about those two different
sizes. Are black holes about fourmillion solar masses, but Gargantua is a
one hundred million solar masses, Soif it's bigger, shouldn't the time dilation
should be much more drastic. Sowith ours, it's seven hundred years with

(47:58):
one minute, with their it's sevenyears with one hour. So that seems
a little you know, And thiswas probably a moment where you know,
obviously Christopher Nolan's like, all right, well, we got to be able
to make it realistic. So Murphyis still alive by the time. Yeah,
yeah, a little bit of cinematicmagic, but wouldn't like, like,

(48:20):
I'm still kind of like stuck onwhat you said about like it freezing
like, so wouldn't hypothetically Miller's planethave been frozen over because wasn't that black
hole from the sun of that planet? Yeah, that is an interesting thing.
They did show that there was apretty distinguished accreation disk around it,

(48:42):
So I'm curious if maybe there wasa nearby star that they did show us
that helped me warm the planet,because the planet was pretty bright by the
time they were there, So I'mnot sure if that would be it,
and it you know, it couldbe also that it was one hundred solar
masses and so it may have hadquite a lot of again a created matter

(49:05):
around the black hole. So potentiallythere was a lot of a lot of
stars that can generate a lot ofheat and solar radiation, whereas if we
maybe had a smaller black hole atthe center of our galaxy that you know,
we probably would freeze to death ifit was a small like a small
black hole like a stellar mass thenbecause we wouldn't really have that heat.

(49:27):
But maybe if there was a muchbigger black hole at the center of our
galaxy, if it wasn't big enoughto surpass our orbit where it would engulf
the Earth and we would survive.Maybe there would be some kind of nearby
star that's been accumulated around this blackhole that can keep us warm potentially,
but for right now. If therewas something big enough, we probably had

(49:52):
the issue of it surpassing where we'relocated right now, and so it probably
wouldn't golf us. But if itis a smaller blacke back hole, we'd
probably freeze. So I think whathappened in the movie was that the planet
must have been located very kind offar, respectively enough away from the black
hole where it actually would it be, like I guess it wouldn't be close

(50:16):
to it. It's just sort ofthat Goldilock zone, not too close,
not too far, but close enoughfor maybe it's picking up on some kind
of warmth or heat from a nearbyobject, some kind of star that was
an institution, just or wasn't tooclose where it was you know, going
to you know, be within theevent horizon scale size size of of the

(50:37):
black hole. I don't, Idon't know. I'm getting like twisted up
in my own thoughts about this.I know, black holes like I've seen
socialized it is, but that's whyit's so fascinating, and I actually think
that's why people are so curious aboutit. And here's like a total like
other other thing. My husband iscompletely obsessed with Lord of the Rings,

(50:58):
like he read the Simmerialia. Heloves Lord of the Rings fandom, and
there's a whole science behind. Imean, Lord of the Rings is amazing,
it's an amazing novel. But oneof the reasons why the fandom is
so deep is because the Lord ofthe Rings universe is so complex, and
every time you discover the answer toone of the mysteries, it opens up
ten other mysteries where it's like youlearn about the ball Rocks and the I

(51:23):
don't know if this is his thing, the my tour, the Mrkoth,
whatever it is, but it's likethere's these infinite universes to discover within Lord
of the Rings. And I feellike it's similar with black Holes, because
every time we answer a question,there's more questions and that drives our obsession,
like we just want to know.We get more and more curious.
It's like I also feel the sameway about like five Nights at Freddy's I've

(51:44):
just gotten into that fandom in thelast few years, and I'm like,
I need to know where did FreddyFasberg get his immortality. So every time
that there's something that's really complicated andcomplex and deep, it just makes us
more obsessed and we just need toknow. We just keep searching for those
answers. Yeah, yeah, completely, so until the day we can maybe
find a Miller's planet near a blackhole and we'll have these answers, you

(52:08):
know, it's questions possibly answered.It's yeah, it's it's such an amazing
it's such an amazing field of astrophysics, just black holes. And we haven't
even touched on wormholes at all inthe I know, I know it.
We're predicted by Einstein and you know, and so like maybe it's only a

(52:29):
matter of time before we actually willcome across wormhole. Like I believe that
we might actually find one, youknow, one day. Like I don't
think it's super far fetched where itmay exist, because I just think that
we thought that black holes were toofar fetched and look at that when there's
just they're popping up everywhere. Yees. I mean, you just think about
like the beauty of a sunrise isfar fetched. It's like existence itself is

(52:52):
far fetched. It's like everything isfar fetched until it's proven. And I
think that every single day is anopportunity for humans to like just to take
that reminder to not take anything forgranted, because what are what is our
modern convenience and technology would have beenlike absolute magic for ancient people. And
it just gets me excited. Iread, Wow, I'm totally blanking on

(53:15):
doctor Mityo Cacals. He has aninteresting book, The Future of Humanity,
and I read that and I waslike, yes, this fuels my curiosity,
like you wouldn't believe. And hementions in that book, how you
know, he says that same thing, ancient people would have thought that our
modern life is magic. They wouldhave thought that phones were magic. That

(53:37):
was the only explanation. And I'mjust so curious to think about the future
technologies that are offspring are going toproduce and it will seem like magic to
us. So you know, thewormholes, it's like that seems so mysterious,
the multiverse, other dimensions with doppelgangers, it seems so mysterious. But
it's like, maybe we'll reach afuture when day where it's just like that

(54:00):
is science fact, and that's thelife we're living. And you're going on
vacations to other universes and like kidsare still going to be the exact same.
They're going to be bored. They'relike, mom, come on,
Universe three is so yeah, it'sjust like because we're always going to be
human and no matter what. AndI actually do want to ask you about
that, like what kind of technologiesare we are, Like what kind of

(54:22):
emerging technologies are we advancing right nowthat are helping with our understanding of black
holes? Like what are some ofthe big questions we're asking that some of
these technologies are hopefully going to beanswering in the near future, Like I
know James Webb telescope was a gamechanger. Are there any other technologies coming
out they can help us answer someof these questions? Gosh, you know

(54:44):
there's gotta be just give me amoment to really think about that. I
might not know any honestly, othereven you mentioned James Webb, There's definitely
going to be some I think greatjust great telescopes generally both on Earth and
also space, tele scopes that maybe able to help us with that.
I know with exoplanets there's tests theTransiting Exoplanetary Service on light, so not

(55:09):
necessarily looking into black hole information.But I think some things on Earth that
are really interesting is well, there'sthe Gravitational Wave Observatory, so LIGO laser
into parameter Gravitational Wave Observatory. Can'tbelieve I have that just memorized the top

(55:29):
of my head, nerd aleard Alart, but it's I know that's done a
lot of work with detecting gravitational waves, which are sort of these ripple effects
throughout space time that happened when saveblack holes collide, and I believe that
was what actually helped lead to thediscovery of the intermediate black hole. I

(55:49):
mentioned like just so many times inour interview today, because when black holes
will collide, they're going to causea very big disturbance with in the fabric
of spacetime that could be detected throughjust these these very sensitive pieces of equipment.
That that's the majority of the understandingthat I have about what exactly they're

(56:12):
doing to detect it. I've gotto go visit it some time and actually
check it out, but I knowLigo is definitely contributing factor to that.
There's also the event Horizon telescope thatbrought us the image of that first black
hole. I believe it also gotus an image of Sagittarius A the black
hole at our center of our galax. Yeah, what year? What year

(56:32):
did those images come out? Gosh, that first one was setmember it was
I think it was April sixteenth,it was the date, and I think
it was twenty nineteen, twenty eight, two forty eight pm. Well,
I'll always remember it. I mean, it might have been at like one

(56:52):
pm because I was I was actuallyon a photo shoot that day. It
was when I was still boddeling inNew York, and I remember stopping the
shoot to watch the press conference.I was like, guys, we need
to watch this right now. Andit's like, uh no, ma'am,
you're working right now. We're sorry, like model camps, yep, the
shoot and I'm like, oh,well, this is more important than everything
right now. And and so I'vealways remember that day, like I intentionally

(57:15):
had a stop just to watch thispress conference when they revealed the image.
So it was a huge deal onit. And I believe it was twenty
nineteen was the day it Lea wasApril, so yeah, it was a
huge moment. It was that waslike so exciting because you ab to see
so much of the black hole.I know, like a lot of people
were like, oh, look atthis fuzzy image. There's so many means

(57:37):
about it. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it was so it was
so cool. And then like alsolike side note audience, Athena was scouted
by America's Next Hot Model at onepoint. So I just want to add
for all, not just not justladies, but like women and men.
It's like you could be both.You can be brains, you can be

(57:58):
beautiful, you can be weird,you can be introverted extroverted. It's like
science is for everybody. Like science, Like you don't have to be like
some nerdy dude with like a buzzcut and a lab coat. Like you
can be anybody with any lifestyle andexperience and interests and be a scientist.
And that's one thing that I dolove about you, Athena, is that

(58:19):
you just like you kind of you'rejust you're doing it all. Oh,
thank you, Heidi. And youknow, I've had some of the most
fascinating conversations around these concepts actually likeodd shoots with other models who have I
mean, I've met so many modelswho have degrees in STEM that I've met
like other people and other jobs andother workforces. I mean, it was
like really fascinating. So I've hadsome really awesome conversations with just creatives in

(58:44):
the fashion industry in general around thesereally complex concepts in astrophysics, and that
really made for a great, greatdecade long career. Well, it's so
crazy because there's like there's just somany like it's just like the dumb model
stereotype and it's like, actually,no, that's false, Like there's a

(59:05):
so I actually so so Athena andI so listeners, This is just for
your FYI. Athena and I metthrough Instagram, I guess because we started
following each other because we had bothattended a really cool opportunity at NASA,
and we didn't meet at the sameevent, but we went to different ones
where we got to interview some ofthe subject matter experts. At these events,

(59:28):
I went to the Crew seven launchAthena, which one were you at?
My first one was for the GozaWeather satellite, which is what tells
our iPhones what the weather is andthen I went to another one. I
went to two other ones, andI don't remember off the top of my
head. It was for the launchof the in Shite Lander on Mars,
So that was really cool. Yeah, that's exciting, but no at mine.

(59:51):
One of the participants there was MissUnited States. She's beauty, she's
great, she's Miss United States andshe has a STEM degree and she let
us all sign her lab coat.She's like normal and I only let kids
sign my lap cooat, but I'lllet you guys sign it too, And
it's just so cool to see that. There's just like it really does break
through a lot of stereotypes, Likeeven Natalie Portman's a scient to this and
that's not something that everybody knows abouther. And I just think that that's

(01:00:13):
super cool that Yeah, that's soawesome too. With the lap coat,
I love that I know she postedany photos of it, yet she's posted
so many great photos. Like Iwas looking around at like everybody else's like
content that they were like making,and I'm like, uh, well,
I have an Android phone, soI hope this turns out well. But

(01:00:34):
I just wanted to ask were thereany other cause I can I feel like
I just get so excited with thesetopics sometimes. Was there anything else that
you had, like, really wantedto share about black holes that we didn't
quite get to before we get toour reality check moment. Briefly looking at
my notes for just a moment,you know, just for fun, I'm
gonna just show the camera just incase we decide we want to share that.

(01:00:57):
I do this all the time wheneverI'm like watching lecture or something.
Just so many amazing things to talkabout. You know, I think we've
got on everything. Let me justthink for one moment it was there was
something I was thinking about, butwe might get to it. Actually,
when we talk about the the realitycheck, it was Christopher Nolan concept concept
of comparison between those two. No, yeah, let's move it. Let's

(01:01:22):
move forward. Okay, here itis sorry than you now Here it is
the moment of truth. So Athenais the time dilation portrayal of Miller's planet
in the movie Interstellar scientifically accurate onour one to five reality check score.
Where would you rank it? Letme look back at the voice that he

(01:01:44):
remind me what the speculative one wasthe full name? Okay, on my
other oh, well, the fourthe speculative speculative science is a four.
I have that on a decorative scienceyes, from five to one. Okay,
yes it was not okay, Soout of speculative science number four,
I would say that kind of justfollowing modern theories, they did a great

(01:02:06):
job. Made a few adjustments kindof here and there just to sort of
make it really like awesome for themovie, such as I think that time
dilation at the black hole, thefact that the black hole was moving really
close to the speed of light also, which we didn't mention earlier, I
thought was really interesting. Not surenecessarily on the truth behind that and the

(01:02:28):
possibility of that actually existing. ButI think other than that, they really
hit the nail on the head withthis one. I think they did a
great job with even creating the artificialgravity in that end scene for the O'Neill
cylinder. The that just was amazingCooper Station. So I would give it
number four speculative science. That's howi'd say it. That is so cool.

(01:02:50):
And you know what blows my mindis I feel like most of these
episodes end up being like fours orfives, Like even some of them,
I was like, for sure,this is too like for sure, this
is like way far fetched. Andthen I'll talk to some scientists They're like,
oh no, we're doing that already. I'm like, what, that's
terrifying, that's so crazy, Andso it just like it really just shows

(01:03:15):
like this is why I love sidefiction. Is it like kind I kind
of think it almost like predicts thefuture, Like it shows us what's about
to happen, and that's what's soexciting to me about the genre. Yeah,
I almost put it at it too. I almost did, and that
was because I was like, well, I'm like, based on our theories,
but then I had to remember,well, these are theories. We
no one's gone inside a black hole. No one sent anyone inside a black

(01:03:37):
hole. Oh. And that wasthe last thing I did want to talk
a little bit about, which wasreally just the bookcase experience and what it
was like that he actually went throughthe black holes inside the bookcase and then
was able to come out safely andyou know, not be spaghetified. I
thought that was pretty interesting where Ithink, most likely that might not happen,

(01:03:57):
but but we don't know. Wenever sent to anyone inside of black
holes, so I had to putit out a number four. Yeah,
yeah, well and then just likethe the vortex that the future beings created
within, that was just like that'sgoing to be a whole other interesting topic.
It's like will our will our notour ancestors, our offspring, Like

(01:04:17):
way far in the future, willthey be able to build things through time
and gravity that can assist us withhelping the human rights survive? Like who
knows? These are these are bigquestions. So Athena is there just like,
let let us know. Are thereany places where people can find you
if they have follow up questions?Are there any projects you're working on that

(01:04:39):
you want to promote or anything elsethat you want to kind of promote or
say yeah sure? So I madeit pretty easy my handles astro athens on
every single platform. I'm really pushingmy YouTube channel right now. I just
revamped that launching a really long formvideo soon. When I went to the

(01:05:01):
new star Base facility through SpaceX wherethey're building the starship rocket going back to
the Moon and Mars one day tocarry people to Mars. So I did
a whole tour and that's videos comingout soon. So I would love for
those for anyone listening here to checkout what I've got on a YouTube channel,
but also on Instagram TikTok, I'mastro Athens and I've got ashtrothms dot

(01:05:28):
com actually put together also a niceself tour guide ebook if anyone ever wants
to visit a star base. It'sreally open to the public. It's awesome.
I got within feet from three starshiprockets and a booster that all flew
to space. We'll kind of justwent up and back down. They didn't
really do anything more than that.So if you guys are interested, check
that out. I've got all thatalso on my website. Thought other than

(01:05:50):
that, Yeah, no, that'sthat's everything. Okay, aweso, No,
I think it's like, I loveyour branding. I think it's really
fun, and your education that youput out there is so great. I
love everything you're doing with the eclipse. All right, everybody, Well,
thank you so much for listening today. Let me know if you agree with
Athena's Reality Check score, and ifyou have anything you wanted to add to

(01:06:12):
the conversation or questions that you mighthave, please let us know in the
comments. And that concludes this episodeof Reality Check. Reality Check. Thank science,