April 24, 2025 • 43 mins
The power of a great rivalry has fueled some of anime's most memorable moments, but not all rivals are created equal. When does a rivalry elevate storytelling, and when does it become a tired trope?
We're kicking things off with the granddaddy of them all: Goku versus Vegeta. This rivalry set the template—proud prince against carefree warrior—evolving from deadly enemies to reluctant allies to something surprisingly close to friendship. Vegeta's journey from villain to hero represents perhaps the most successful rivalry arc in anime history, setting a high bar for everything that followed.
But has anyone truly improved upon this formula? Naruto and Sasuke attempted to follow this blueprint but stumbled into contrived motivations and questionable character choices. We dig into why Sasuke's endless angst and illogical decisions undermined what could have been a more compelling dynamic. Meanwhile, Light and L from Death Note took the rivalry concept in a completely different direction, creating an intellectual chess match with deadly stakes that required no friendship undertones to be utterly captivating.
Modern series like My Hero Academia and Black Clover have tried putting fresh spins on the rivalry trope. Bakugo's transformation from Midoriya's bully to respected peer unfolds with genuine character development, while Yuno and Asta maintain a supportive competitive relationship that begins with friendship rather than antagonism. These newer takes demonstrate how rivalries can still feel fresh when they avoid simply copying what came before.
What makes a truly great anime rivalry? Is it the spectacular battles, the character growth, or something more fundamental about how competitors push each other beyond their limits? Join us as we analyze the evolution of this essential anime trope and discover which rivalries genuinely changed the game.
Want to tell us about your favorite anime rivalry? Hit follow on your podcast app, subscribe on YouTube, and jump into the conversation online!
🎵 Music Credits:
Intro: Visions – Adv3n7ur35, Ian Locke
Outro: Nakusita Kakera – Ian Post
Music licensed via Artlist.io
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Realm Jumpers.
I'm Andrew and this is myco-host, jordan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hey everyone.
We're here to dive into theworlds of fantasy and anime,
bringing you epic stories andunforgettable adventures.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We'll be talking world building, unforgettable
villains and everything thatmakes these genres legendary.
So let's jump into the Realmand everything that makes these
genres legendary.
So let's jump into the Realm.
If you think Goku vs Vegeta isthe peak of anime rivalries, you
haven't been paying attention.
This is Realm Jumpers, andtoday we're breaking down the
(00:36):
rivalries that have beenredefining the genre.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I am so excited for this one buddy.
This is going to be a goodepisode.
I can just feel it.
Oh yeah, dude, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I mean, this is mostly be a good episode.
I could just feel it.
Oh yeah, dude, I'm ready.
I mean, this is mostly yourterritory, but I still have
opinions.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I always have oh yeah , oh, your opinions on one of
these two is gonna beinteresting.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I already, I already know, I think there's probably
two of them were my opinionfreak.
Is that dude talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
yeah, what does he mean?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
well, let's just start with.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Uh, you know goku vegeta.
I mean you kind of mentionedhim in the opener there and you
know they're one of the mainones.
First off, I am a vegeta stanto the day I die.
He is my guy, although goku hasgrown on me over the years.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Now I like um, and it's probably for the same
reason, to be honest, becausegoku's just too and he's too
much naruto like he's he's justlike already, starting with, the
hot takes world power, likethat's all he cares about.
Like I gotta be the best.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You know what I mean yeah, goku's um, I like his
silliness a little bit, but thensometimes it does get a little
ridiculous because you're likedude, you're gonna give the
villain a sense of being, areyou?
Are you serious?
Like, what are we talking about?
But you know they, they're justfundamentally different.
You know the whole pride versusprogress thing and you know
Vegeta starts off heavy man, hepops into the story and he's
(01:50):
killing people and straightvillain.
I mean total, I love killingand I'm going to kill everyone
around me.
You know, he's just, he's ballsto the wall man, he's ready to
go.
And then, of course, we getback to him on Namek.
And now he's really mad becausehe lost to Goku.
How dare this lowborn Saiyanbeat the prince?
And he is just on a tear manKilling poor Namekian villagers.
(02:14):
I mean killing Frieza's Ben,which is pretty cool, but he was
just, you know, on a tear andthen, of course, culminating in
the iconic Super Saiyan.
Goku hits it.
He can't, you know, he dies,frieza kills him.
Yeah, and Vegeta is one ofthose guys, man, he comes back,
it's wish back and he juststarts training.
You know, nonstop I'm going toget Super Saiyan.
(02:35):
If he can do it, I can do itand I really think that you know
he goes from villain to,honestly, his best friend at
this point.
Him and goku are boys.
I mean, they really are.
If you watch super they mightyou know he hates him a little
bit, but he needs him.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So that's dragon ball super right with a tournament
yeah that no yeah the, thetournament of power.
That's dragon ball super right.
Yep, that has one of myfavorite uh vegeta speeches oh,
and that tournament of powerwhen, uh, yeah, I don't, I can't
even what he say Step into thedomain of the gods, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Dude, epic scene, epic.
And then you know him.
I like that they twisted theminto friends, best friends,
because it's one of those weirdthings where he hates them but
he really doesn't, because ifGoku were to die for real
forever, he would be like allhis motivation's gone.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Why, for real, forever he would be like all his
motivation's gone.
Why would he train anymore?
You know he really wouldn't.
He probably would just bechilling most of the time.
Yeah, I mean this was the I Idon't, this was kind of the
defining the start of the youknow, the anime rivals, I think
like I can't think of one beefand same.
Yeah, I mean it started out aswhat?
Jealousy, honestly, because itfelt like jealousy in and oh 100
dude and not just because gokuwas stronger.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It was like you're stronger, but I'm like how could
you be stronger than me?
It doesn't make sense, yeahright but I can respect the
grind.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I mean he's trying to get stronger.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's like his main thing, dude right, his flashback
scene when he achieved supersaiyan and he was training and
like was about to die on thatrandom planet and he was like
just losing it and so angry thathe couldn't do it.
And then he snaps and that'swhen he hits super saiyan epic
scene, man, I mean just it'sepic.
You know, of course goku supersaiyan scene is probably more
(04:15):
iconic.
But vegeta was like I'm gonna,I'm gonna get there.
You know, if he can do it, Ican do it.
And I think one of my mostfavorite funny vegeta moments is
when his own son and gotenturned super saiyan and he's
like a seven-year-old can turninto it.
Are you kidding me?
You've turned this into a plate, a child's blade.
He was so mad about it.
But then it makes sense becausethey're they're having kids
(04:38):
when they're already like supersaiyan one, two, whatever.
Of course the kids would beable to do it quicker, but
there's no meaning, you knowwhat I mean.
But yeah, definitely, uh, aniconic, uh rival system.
You know, going on this one, Ican't wait for your takes on the
naruto sasuke.
I remember you went to rantabout them before.
I mean, come on, start a littlebit here well, here's the thing
(05:01):
, dude.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So you know, we've already mentioned this kind of
defining moment or how a rivalry, and you would think, following
that, that people would followthe.
You know the formula.
But I, I I'm opposite.
Take you gotta, you gotta finddifferent ways to meet the same
for the rivalry that just is thesame thing over.
It's gonna get boring, um, andI think great partially, that's
(05:23):
the problem with the Narutoversus Sasuke rivalry.
And here's where I'm going toget flamed is because, dude,
it's boring, like you didn't doanything special, like it's the
same.
Ok, so you know I've alreadygone off on the tangent of
Sasuke's epically tragicbackstory, which I cannot stand.
And it's not that it's a badbackstory, it's just they drug
it out way too long they did.
(05:43):
And it's not that it's a badbackstory, it's just they drug
it out way too long they did.
But aside from that tragicbackstory, there's almost no
difference between goku jita andnaruto sasuke, like, yes, there
are major differences, Iunderstand that, but it feels
the same, it's got the sameenergy.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's to me like the difference with this with me is
like okay, goku, he wasn't likechosen and just magically got
all the he trained his ass off.
Vegeta did too.
Naruto did he trained his assoff.
Sasuke was just golden boy.
I mean, he's just literallyfrom jump.
I can do all this great stuffbecause I'm a Uchiha and I like
(06:18):
that.
That made Naruto like this sucks.
I want to be as strong as him,which is that part of the north
journey is great.
But in my opinion, sasuke nevergrew as a character really and
it was just I'm mad, I'm emo.
Obviously you have a terriblebackstory.
We all agree and be upset aboutit, but it was like I'm gonna
(06:39):
screw over people to getstronger, if I have to.
Naruto never did that, so itwas one of those things.
And I think the part withsasuke which it's funny because
I have him nartan never did that, so it was one of those things.
And I think the part withsasuke which it's funny because
I have him up there, like I likesasuke as a character, but oh,
same dude, I like.
This isn't me saying like sasukeis the worst, like, yeah, like
I like him but also like I thinkI don't respect too much of him
(07:00):
for a long time, because it waslike hey, if I got to go work
for or tomorrow, I'll do it, ifI have to do this, I'll do it.
And it just kind of got to thepoint where it's like buddy, you
know that the village didn'tkill your family, like that was
donzo.
So why are you gonna likeattack the leaf village?
Why are you gonna all of asudden want to be like well, I
want to be the okage, like younever cared about that because
he doesn't care.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Dude, he's a spoiled little brat.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
That's my problem with Sasuke.
Yeah, dude, that's my thingwith him.
Like I can understand.
His backstory is terrible.
I understand you found out yourbrother was good and not really
bad.
I get all that.
I understand you being likewell, I want to kill the dude
that set this up On board,brother, let's go.
But now you're like I'm goingto destroy and kill everyone in
the Leaf Village.
(07:41):
Huh, destroy and kill everyonein the leaf village.
Huh, what?
What are you talking about?
So he just always seemed tojust go like too far.
And then I understand they hadto have a final battle because
they built it up from theoriginal show to the, you know,
shippuden.
But I just think it just washandled so bad because that
fight he's trying to kill himand naruto wasn't fighting like
(08:01):
that.
So it just, oh, it just seemedlike the writing wrote into a
corner and it was like we haveto fight.
So he's gonna just go back oneverything and he's like well,
I'm gonna kill you and be okage,it was right, it's yeah.
Um, they ran out of stuff forsasuke to say, they used it all
up in the first 800 episodesright, right, like I I told you
(08:22):
before, I would have rather himbeen like hey, I don't want to
murder you, I'd like to fightyou for okage.
At least.
That's like an honorable battle, right this?
Dude was trying to cut his headoff the whole fight yeah, no,
for sure, come on, man, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Has anybody ever checked this?
What would the episode countfor?
Narutobi took out all of woe.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Is me sasuke oh man, I mean they drug on like the
next time power leveling dragonball z, like it just kept going
and going.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Dude, I bet you can cut out like 70 episodes I was
thinking 50 at least, but yeah,70, I yeah and then cut out the
naruto on the uh, on the um, theswing cut that out too, nah you
know what?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
no, that was impactful most of the time yeah,
but like after the 20th, ninthtime, like we get it.
You know, the kids hated you?
Yeah, absolutely so.
All right, let's move on.
So we got light and l fromdeath note, which is such a
different type of you knowsituation absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
This is like a sherlock holmes versus moriarty
and a thing, for that's the wayI've been, you know and the
thing that's so crazy about thisand I might get flamed for this
one.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I love Death Note, but when L gets murked like it's
not that good anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It went downhill.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
It went so downhill and I understand like his
protagies come in and all that,but how are you going to tell me
that L lost in this?
I don don't remember the kid'sname, the one that actually won
at the end.
I don't even remember whichpart of it was this ending?
I don't remember, yeah, and Iremember the ending, but and it
just it wasn't as good, althoughthe l verse light part was so
different than anything still tothis day to be honest.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Well, I mean that I wasn't kidding about the
sherlock holmes moriarty thing,dude, that's what it is like.
That whole the the story arcwhen um light has himself forget
.
You know, he gives him oh yeah,and he has himself forget that
he was ever like holding thebook.
So then he's like got thiswhole plan that he's put.
I don't know, I loved that.
Part of the art was great andthat was like this feels like a
(10:19):
sherlock home or you alreadythink we're?
Definitely not friends thisisn't like goku and naruto you
know, and these other fellas.
This is like I fucking guts anduh it's just light.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Was such a psycho man yeah, he was absolutely insane
but like compelling because he'sthe main character, like it's
just that was.
I still haven't seen anythinglike that and it's been years
and years.
I don't think they've ever seenanother series.
Quite like the villain is themain character and you kind of
like him, although you know heneeds to lose, but you don't
(10:49):
want him to lose.
I don't know, I can't think ofanything.
So I still think to this daythat the chess match and in a
weird way, like Light, reallythought he was doing justice but
it was kind of a facade becausethe second he almost got caught
.
He was cool with killingregular people.
You know what I mean but did hethough?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
did he really think he was doing justice outside of
the first?
No, that's what I said.
Maybe the first four episodes.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
He thought, yeah, and then it was like, oh well, if I
have, I'm a piece of crap.
Yeah, he, he, yeah, great, Imean such a great series, all
right.
So the next one, man, I Ifinished Black Clover right, or
are you right at the end of it?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I'm dude, I'm so close to which now I'm just mad.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Same dude.
I've been waiting years, but uh, you know, versus Asta, which
we talked about a little bitbefore, but it's very different
than the Naruto Sasuke one.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Although it seems like it's going to be the same,
and that was one of the threereasons that I originally
stopped watching it.
Episode one the first time whenBlack Clover first came out, I
watched episode one just becauseyou know the trailer looked.
Watch episode one and I'm likenot turning this off.
I was like this dude has gotway too much in common with
Naruto and Natsu.
I was like it's the weirdestmashup of the two most idiotic
(12:06):
tendencies that those two guyshave and I was like this is
terrible.
I don't want to watch it.
You were the one that convincedme to like pick it back up, but
and I did.
I had to get past.
It was, I don't lie, it was somuch yelling.
I had to get past like episodefour, but I, I think this one's
named right you, you named thisone, you know, versus Asta, and
I don't think it's you know,versus.
Also, have you seen the show?
it's asta versus everybody,because every other episode
(12:28):
somebody's making a new rivalrywith austin, they're like you're
my rival.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
My favorite is the the fire kid and he's just like.
He's like what are you talkingabout?
Man?
Like he doesn't even see anyoneas a rival, but you know
everyone else is like back.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Maybe he sees the captains but no, he does
fogoleon, because, uh, fogoleonacknowledges him as a rival
first, and he, you know he'seating it up and that he's using
that to try to push himself tobe stronger.
That's right yami.
I don't.
I don't think yami everactually says it, because yami's
in a whole differentstratosphere.
But oh yeah, silva, um, what'shis face hair boy, because yeah,
(13:03):
noelle her brother her brother,the one with the hair in his
face.
Oh, uh, yeah, yeah yeah, heacknowledged asta as a rival too
, and it's like, dude, it's likeevery three episodes, once you
get past the first, you know,once he becomes a magic knight,
it's like this is asta versuseverybody.
This is that's the rivalry.
It's awesome everybody else.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
they're like captains .
Talking to like a low rank dudewho just started, but yeah, but
in his mind it's you know, it'sa, you know like that's he's
got to, he's got to be thewizard king before you know it
is, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
This one, yeah.
This one's refreshing for me,though, because this is more
about the actual power offriendship than you know the
previous ones, right friendshipthan you know the previous ones,
right light and l.
They hated each other.
Um, goku and vegeta.
Obviously they started outenemies.
Uh, natsu versus sasuke we canbeat that one to death, yeah, um
(13:52):
, but this one, you know, versusasta, they're friends for the
most part.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Asta, I mean, you know, is a dick, but they're
they're they're friendsespecially when it shows the
backstory and it's like dude, hewas fighting for you.
Like you're really gonna likebe an ass now.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, he just got his ass kicked to get your necklace
back.
And now you're gonna be likeI'm gonna be the wizard king too
, like wait bro, what?
Why did?
I thought we're.
We're brothers.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, I'm gonna give thisnecklace back to this other guy.
Yeah, like you.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And then I always just felt like I mean, yes,
although it does have the oldgolden boy syndrome like Sasuke,
where he just gets every power,you know, because he's blessed
by magic, but it is cool that itdoes they do seem to be
leveling up at the same level.
You know, like meeting eachother, like it is refreshing in
(14:40):
a weird way.
I mean it's very similar to thelike the next one, the Natsu
Gray one.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
I mean they are buddies but they throw down all
the time fire, yeah they're morefriends than and this is like
the tears right, so like if youwere to go less friends versus
like closer to being friendsversus further away from friends
.
Like you know not soon gray aredefinitely closer to the
friends versus further away fromfriends.
Like you know, natsu and grayare definitely closer to the.
(15:06):
We're actually friends, we'rejust pretending.
Yeah, then, like natsu andsasuke, because that's almost
like a natsu wanted to befriends with everybody, because
nobody was his friend and sasukejust didn't give a crap,
because everyone wanted himanyway, right that?
doesn't really count, likethat's not a great friendship.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Um, so yeah, natsu and Gray and Yuno versus Asta,
those are the ones that areactually close to you know, like
actual based on friendships andyou know it's funny because as
long as they're friends, untilNatsu goes a little too far with
the jokes and Gray's taking offhis shirt and he's like or
they're drinking.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Put your clothes back on gray.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, I, they're just , they're a funny team.
And then, you know, gray lateron gets way stronger with his
other part and stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
His dad was insane, dude, insane.
That's off topic, but his dadwas insane yeah that I love them
.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
As you know, two buddies slash rivals.
But come on, dragon slayer.
Sorry buddy, he beats you.
Sorry man, he's got dragonslayer magic well, here's the
thing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I heard a rumor, um, and I'm not going to find it
right now, but I heard a rumorthat when he um, he was writing
that he had originally intendedto unveil gray as another dragon
slayer during the during thetournament arc, and then he
changed his mind.
Was there an ice one?
I don't know, but that's whatgray was supposed to be like in
his original.
That's pretty cool, like in hismind.
(16:29):
Canon stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
You know what is he?
A demon slayer, right?
He ended up being a demonslayer or something, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
yeah, but he was going to be like the ice dragon
slayer.
Oh man, that would have beencool, but but the demon thing
was cool.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Though the demon thing it was, it was cool, cool.
All right, so let's move on.
So the next one you can't talkon at all, because I don't think
you started it.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I started Vigilantes and I know you told me to do it
the other way around, but Iwanted to watch the prequel
first.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
dude, it's fine bro, it's fine, did you like it Slide
?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
and Glide.
No, that is the greatest namefor the worst power.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So wait till you see how that goes on and how he gets
better with it, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Oh no, I'm sure.
Yeah, no, it's good, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So in the main series , bakugo and Midoriya.
So I don't know if you've seenclips or anything, but Bakugo is
straight up bullying material.
Just bully the hell out of thisboy.
And you know, poor, poorMidoriya, poor Deku has no
powers.
Bakugo shoots bobs from hishands like dude, stop being a
jerk.
And they were childhood friendslike, grew up together and
(17:34):
Bakugo was always the leader ofthe group because he was the
strongest quirk user of theirlittle friend group.
Deku didn't have any at all, soto him he's like.
You know, he was never like,hated Bakugou and even when, if
I remember correctly, I thinksomeone was going to drown,
maybe Bakugou and he saved him.
He was like you don't need tosave me, I don't need your
sympathy type stuff.
But when good old Midoriya getsone for all power and starts
(17:57):
having abilities, bakugo isfurious because he thought that
he was hiding his power theirwhole lives and he was like you
little bastard, how dare youhide this from me?
So is it like when Sasuke findsout that Naruto is actually
(18:26):
jealous of the power?
No, so the whole thing withthat is in the my Hero world,
all Might, which is the goatpretty much.
He gives a piece of hair toMidoriya and he's like you got
to eat it if you want to be thenext user of my power.
So he actually passes it toMidoriya.
The only problem is that poorMidoriya is already.
He didn't grow up with thispower, so he pretty much has to
like slowly become accustomedwhere if he punches someone with
it it'll break his hand andstuff.
So no one can know that thatpower was passed on Like it's a
(18:50):
secret, so you can't tell Bakugo.
And Bakugo is like you've beenlying to me, that you've had a
power this entire time.
So he feels slighted and like Ithought we were friends I guess
not.
So he really tries to bully him.
And then it kind of you know,goes from there and Midori gets
stronger and stronger and he'salways getting stronger, which
pushes Bakugou to get stronger.
(19:13):
And then eventually I mean not aspoiler, because we're way far
ahead in the series now it'salmost over, I think it's like
the last season's coming up soonand Baku learns that All Might
gave him the power.
Well, all Might was Baku'sfavorite hero too.
So it's like this whole thing,like I'm going to keep up with
you.
I can be the next All Might,and then, as it kind of wraps
(19:36):
the story.
It's like a mutual respectsituation.
Um, they do end up fighting um,testing each other out, and
they both are pretty equal.
But midoriya, just, he blowspast because that's the story.
He has to um, but but itbecomes a respect and it becomes
a like um, you know, sorry thatI treated you that way.
I didn't you know, he didn'tknow, he thought that he was
being lied to so he was reallybeing a dick of it, really, um,
(19:57):
but no, it no.
Baku is a great character.
I thought originally you'dthink they're doing the Sasuke
thing with him, like joining abad guy to get stronger, and it
completely.
He's like I'll never be bad, Iwant to be, I'm a hero, even
though he yells at people andcurses at people and he's a
little abrasive.
But he's not the Sasuke Like.
But he's not the Sasuke like.
If I have to be bad to getstronger, I'm going to do it.
(20:18):
That's not Bakugo.
So how do you think?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
this one like advanced the rivalry trope, or
did it just kind of more of thesame lately told?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I think it did advance it because originally
it's framed that you kind ofhate Bakugo because he's a bully
and it really kind of growsMidoriya because right before he
even gets the all might, he hasno power.
A villain attacks, he grabsbakugo bakugo's gonna die and he
runs out and pulls him out ofthis thing with no power.
(20:49):
So it shows midoriya's like I'mgonna be a hero no matter what,
and that does inspire bakugo tobe like want to be a hero.
I think it was good becausethey didn't do the I'm going to
get stronger at any expensething.
I'm going to get stronger on myown, which is what Bacchus was
trying to do.
I think it did push it forward.
Of course it has the wholesuperhero angle, so it's a
little different already, youknow.
(21:10):
But in a weird way you have twocharacters that they want to
become the successor to All.
Might is literally likesuperman at this point.
So they want to be the nextsymbol of peace and they're both
vying for this.
Uh, you know this.
Uh, I don't want to even saytitle, but kind of a title.
I think it pushed it forward.
Um, but they grew a lot becauseit was definitely antagonistic,
(21:33):
into respect and it wasn'tquick.
It took like a long time.
It ended up being bakugan,pushed him to be to master his
power faster, type thing gotcha.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So what about?
Uh, as far as the you know thetrope is concerned, in anime you
have new shows like windbreak,where it becomes like another
thing, where sakura is, it'skind of like an asta situation.
You know it's sakura versuseverybody.
Everybody's become his rival.
But they also blend in thepower of friendship and they
mention it in the show.
You know like everybody'sgetting stronger because Sakura
(22:02):
showed up and you know his freshtake on things is like pushing
everybody to be better.
That's the power of friendship.
That's exactly what that is.
So is there anything that theyneed to do to change the trope
Like, or is it good on its own,as long as you keep trying to a
fresh spin on it?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I mean you're gonna have to put a fresh spin on it,
like kind of what you're sayingearlier, otherwise it's gonna be
the same.
But if you're, if you, you knowall these different ones we
talked about, these are allstill the same.
Well, besides, uh, l and likeum, everyone else, it is kind of
they do have their own littlefresh spins on things, and then
some of them do better thanothers of, because are they
(22:39):
friends?
Are they not like all thatstuff?
Yeah, yeah, um, I don't thinkthe trope.
I mean I wouldn't change thetrope yeah, no, it's not tired
yet, yeah, I would try to putunique spins on it because you
kind of have you have it's partof shonen like you have to have
a rival situation, becausethat's what makes one of or both
characters need to grow andthat's the thing that pushes
(23:02):
them past their quote limitsright A lot of times.
I think you probably need it inmost shonen, which is what
we're kind of seeing when you'rereading through all this stuff
or talking about it.
But there's also just you gotto do it like you're saying a
windbreaker, you.
You know that's interestingstory because he was always
ostracized because he lookeddifferent.
He was always had to fight onhis own.
(23:23):
Now he joins a gang or a group,whatever that they're all like
got each other's back and theydon't care that he looks
different.
They're like hey, can you fight?
And even if you can't fight,the one kid can't fight at all
and he, they're protecting him,like they love him too.
So I, I like that.
You know it's kind of like adifferent spin on it.
For sure?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
well, so that's the, that's the thing, right, though
it's essentially the same storyas naruto, if you, if you take
it down to the bare bones, rightlike you've got abused, slash,
slash, ostracized, who has tofight his own battles, and he's
looking for, he's looking forfriends, except he won't admit
that he's looking for friendsyeah, you know, naruto does
admit that, and that's the freshspin, for naruto wanted friends
(24:01):
sakura, still pretending thathe doesn't need yeah, because
he's like if I become the leaderthe strongest, then everyone,
that'll be okay.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Meanwhile, he's like got a whole group of people
around that he's realizing, orlike right you know like, hey,
buddy, we're all your friends.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
This is the power of friendship circle.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, hey, rainbow hugs yeah, right now let's go
kick some ass which, by the way,side note on that do they have
teachers?
Where's the teachers in thatshow, bro?
I thought about that?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
what are they teaching them?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
advanced, advanced, whoop, ass like they're chilling
in class and I'm like why dothey go to class if there's not
a teacher?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
they're all gonna graduate with gardening degrees
outside of that.
I don't know.
Dude, I don't.
The school's vandalized.
They're all going to graduatewith gardening degrees Outside
of that?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Dude, the school's vandalized.
They're all just chilling andthe kid walks in, they all get
in a fight.
I'm like I love this show, butis there adults?
What's going on?
There are no adults.
I guess he's alone.
He seems to live alone.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
He doesn't have parents, so yeah, how does that
work, how work, how does thatwork, because that's every
shonen ever they don't haveparents where are your parents
like who is responsible for youchild?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
and sara toby, sara toby clearly did a terrible job
that's another episode on it.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, but I mean like that's, that's what it is
shonen is.
You know what I've justdiscovered?
What shonen is about?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
shonen is about terrible parents dead beat dads,
just deadbeat or leaving right.
You know good old uh going injane right yeah, no, it's I got
stuff to do kids.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, that's what shonen is.
So it's.
It's a modern peter pan storythat I.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
That's that shonen I mean it's an alarming amount of
them that they're not the bestdad.
I mean goku's not really a gooddad.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You know what I mean it's not so much that they're
not the best, it's just they'renot there, right yeah, they're
all gone.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
The parents are always gone they gotta train,
they gotta go on a mission.
You know, yeah, yeah, well, I Ithink we could do the honorable
mention.
I mean ichigo and uru frombleach.
You know, I love my boy, ichigo, but you know what's weird?
I never saw uru as a rival tohim, because he's so much
stronger than him.
Well, I mean, I think this isprobably why it's an honorable
(26:04):
mention, right like yeah, yeahhe's like, but it's weird
because I feel like uru is arival in uru's mind, but ichigo
just doesn't even think aboutthat.
He's like you're not even on mylevel, kid, what are you
talking about?
Because I, I think uru likes uh, urahime, and rahimi doesn't
care about that because she's inlove with ichigo, right?
I just think ichigo is justlike living his life and this
(26:25):
other guy's like hating on him.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
He doesn't even know, I don't know.
I will say the um, all thesmack talk in bleach is and and
I love sub.
Uh, let preface that by sayingI love sub yeah I I.
There are only a few that Iwatch.
Bleach is one of those ones Igotta watch in dub because the
smack talk is better in dub.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Dude, he kills it in the smack talk.
He's just Ichigo is one of thebest.
He just he runs that mouth.
Man, I love it.
That's why I love him.
He's always running his mouth,for sure.
Well, yeah, I think that'spretty much most of them.
Now, are we?
You want to move on to therumor time?
Yeah, let's dive into realmroom um, these are spicy ones
(27:07):
this week.
Oh man, I don't even know.
We got two big ones that Idon't really know which one is.
All right, I'm gonna take thisfirst one.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I'm gonna take the first one just okay, because
it's funny and it's not funny,it's terrible, and I want to be
sad and cry.
The beginning after the end.
The fans have started apetition to completely end the
anime and re.
Just restart it from the get-go.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
They're like nope, scrap this crap, get rid of it,
let's, let's start over like thefirst part, like a part of me
is like maybe you know say like,can we get a new studio for
season two?
They're like nah, no, justscrap delete it stop releasing
the episodes and that's the bestpart right though, because
usually you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's like can we get somebody else for season two?
It's like no, that's the bestpart.
Right though, because usuallyyou're right.
It's like can we get somebodyelse for season two?
It's like no, that's not thepetition.
The petition is straight uplike delete it, stop this so
this is.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
This is what's confusing about this to me,
because I I'm gonna end upreading it because everyone said
it's a great story and I wantto read fantastic story.
Yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm gonnado it.
But the thing that blows meaway is every report that I read
about this, which there are somany about the, the terrible
animation, and I agree like comeon, guys, um, but besides, that
(28:15):
is, the creator chose thisstudio is that verified?
I don't.
I've seen it like 50 timeswhere it's like turtle, whoever
they chose, and I'm like was ityou chose them because you got a
kickback, like what is going onhere?
Because why would?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
you.
This is crazy and that thatdoesn't track for me because,
honestly, even if you get akickback, you're cannibalizing
your own story and the abilityfor it to ever go anywhere in
animation yeah, yeah, I dude,and especially like it's a
webtoon, it's a manhwa, and thenyou had just had so leveling,
which was amazing action,everything was great.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And then this comes out.
It's got all this hype and thenit's just like you guys watched
the episode before you releasedthem, right, like you saw.
It was just like did you notquality control these?
Speaker 1 (29:01):
you know what t-bait, the t-bait, anime, anime can be
summed up just grab one ofthose old, like flip style comic
books where you just flip.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That that's t-bait, that's the dude, it's crazy and
I feel like I would like.
This is the thing.
I feel like I would like it.
I feel like I like the designsand like it's interesting so far
, but the second you're doing apunch and it's just like frozen.
And then there's lines, actionlines.
I'm like what is going on?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
nobody watched this well, and it double makes me mad
, right, because this storyblends in a little bit of the
chinese cultivation stuff, whichis awesome.
I like that.
I.
I'm just starting to get intothat a little bit, like I've
started to read a few seriesthat innovation stuff and it's
good and I was super excited tosee this like take place and now
(29:48):
I'm like I'm gonna go sign the20 times every email that you
have all of them all of the.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes, I I thought it was people.
Honestly, I thought people werejust being dramatic because,
like it's not so lovely, it's.
So yeah, then I, I watched thetwo already.
I'm gonna watch the wholeseries, but I watch them and I'm
just like.
I'm just confused, like verywhy did you guys do this?
Or why did you choose a studiothat didn't have the chops?
I?
I need to understand it.
(30:15):
At this point the author needsto say something like you guys
can't just pretend like it's not, I don't know it's a strange
situation it absolutely in thetheme of anime that should have
been great and are just mad.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
You want to lead off on the next one dude, it's just
like the.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
The other anime was better, the what?
Are we talking about from thedumb anime, from like no, I know
, but you gotta talk about whatit is no, but I'm just like, you
know.
I the original anime was betterthat is the hottest of hot it
was like I'm sorry, and you'rewatching this and like look, I I
don't understand why, lady orwhatever, why was she?
(30:53):
I felt like she was in the showmore than he was.
Okay, and I'm like I'm confusedwhy we're focusing so much on
the honor and then it doesn't.
It's like we're not watchingthis for this character like
yeah, no, absolutely like.
This is now when there was someaction with dante.
It was cool.
I still don't know why hedidn't have his guns.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Okay, I don't know, hold on.
Devil may cry.
Peaked at who are we shootingat?
That was peak, that was it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
That was it, but time .
How did she beat him infighting?
I don't like what?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
this wasn't devil may cry.
This wasn't devil may cry.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
This was lady may try , but I don't know the episode
that, bro, that is the best,that dude.
I was watching this and I'mlike, okay, I guess we're
focusing on lady her backstory,okay, and rabbit was cool.
Rabbit was cool whatever I'vegot issues with that too, though
, I know.
But like, how in the world arewe gonna make demons like
(31:50):
they're just being persecutednow?
Yeah, look, I I'm all we'redoing like what?
What are we?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
doing.
Dude, I'm all for the like.
Let's give the evil bad guyssome character depth and make it
a introspective story where wetalk about society as a whole.
I'm all about that.
That's fine, but time and placeand devil may cry is not the
time or the place to have anintrospective on our society.
That's a shoot-em-up action.
(32:17):
It should have remained ashoot-em-up action.
Add a little bit of story, andwe were looking for the cocky
one-liners.
We got some of that, but we gotmore false bravado with I have
no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Um, that was I don't know, here's what's weird action
was fantastic though the actionwas cool, but like you have him
making jokes, which is great,perfect, and then you have this
like super heartfelt thing where, like we're just refugees
getting killed.
It's like what are we even?
What are we doing?
Like it doesn't belong in.
Devil may cry.
It doesn't.
It doesn't match the tone ofthe show, it doesn't match the
(32:49):
game story.
You're just trying to make somekind of statement and you've
made the statement that youdon't know what the hell you're
doing and let me just say that,the entire episode, with no
words, and it's just the episodeof backstory, yeah, backstory
between lady and rabbit.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm like, bro, I no longer care about either one of
you.
I hope you both die.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, I was out, I was forward through and I like
lady outside of this show dude,they made her obnoxious, they
made her too dang strong andthey focused way too much on her
and honestly, yeah, do I needto hear?
Look, I curse okay, but everyother word, can we just chill a
little bit, like it's, it's,it's just coming off?
(33:34):
She was obnoxious, like that'sjust every time that she was on
screen.
I literally I'm like, can wemove on?
And and she was on there a lot,dude, like towards the end it
was like literally half theepisode of every at least, at
least and I'm like is it calledlady may cry or don't, devil
don't?
what are we doing?
Like, where is dante?
And then he would just oh, hegot caught again.
(33:55):
What?
What are we talking about, man?
It was weird.
I'm very disappointed and I'mvery and I know we mentioned it
off air earlier.
You don't really care about thepolitics part, but also that
don't need to be in there.
You know you don't need to bethrowing that into there.
It was this isn't that animeit's not the anime and I don't
know if you knew that was kevinconroy.
It's his last voiceover he everdid before he died and hearing
(34:18):
him that last time and that'sthe character.
And it's like this stupidpolitic thing you're talking
about.
Like bro, they're called demons.
Man like I, what are we doing?
Like like I, I just don't.
Well, oh, the low level ones,they're not bad, but whatever,
what then?
If that's the case, then why issparta do all this?
Well, and what?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
was honestly like okay, I get it, they're not all
bad, because obviously Spartawas good, right, or approaching
good.
Dante is mostly good Most ofthe time.
Yeah, virgil also.
Yeah, that's like I don't knowkind of go either way.
Virgil's good sometimes, right.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, but they're going to.
They're going to mess him up,they're going to ruin it.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Well, no he's still as far as what that story is
concerned, and that's the thing.
Like that's not, devil may cry,I don't care.
Like it's you think about it inthe video game terms, right,
like it's a shoot them up actionthing.
That's what I want to freakingsee like um, that's that, that's
all it was supposed to havebeen.
This isn't the time for socialintrospection.
(35:17):
This isn't the time forpolitics politics weirdness.
Like it's not that I don't agreewith some of the shit you're
saying, but like I just want towatch dante blow up demons.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I'm not here for the rest of that.
Well, the games aren't evenabout that either.
That's the thing that doesn'tmake any sense, and then it's
whatever.
Like it's just.
I was very happy for this andit was just disappointing.
The action that he was fightingwas cool, but like I would
watch a second season, but I'mnot.
If I do, I'm not excited aboutit.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Well, yeah, okay, so there's a thing, right, I will
watch season two absolutely, butI won't watch season one again,
um at all.
Yeah, yeah, whereas other shows, you know, like naruto, I've
watched three or four times,obviously not all, because
that's a lot, but, um, you know,the first, the original series.
I've watched that.
Or four times, obviously notall because that's a lot, but,
um, you know, the first, theoriginal series, I've watched
that two or three.
And then shippuden, I'vewatched that several times in
(36:11):
like batches, right, yeah, notall the one, but I've watched
story arcs, uh, this version ofdevil may cry.
You know what I did when Ifinished that I turned on the
old one and I watched the oldone.
So I was gonna say, how, how isthat one in comparison?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
now, I was thinking of looking at it again.
Okay, so the old one.
So I was going to say how isthat one in comparison?
Now, I was thinking of lookingat it again.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Ok.
So the old one's crap too, butthe old one's crap too, but it
hits Dante Like it's.
It hits Dante like he's.
I do remember that from that oneI was like hey, this is him,
Like he's very like it hits thelow key, like I don't really
care about anything, but I'mstill gonna throw the cocky
one-liners and blow demons up.
Um, you know he's terrible atgambling and like it covers that
(36:46):
a lot, and like there's stuffaround dante that just happens
where he's just being his cool,calm, collect itself and he
throws a one-liner and thendemons explode and you're like
wait, how did you kill them witha one-liner?
Okay, okay, not great anime,but better than that, more true
to d Dante than what the new onewas.
(37:07):
And that sucks because I likeJohnny Young Bosch and he did a
great job as the voice actor.
But it's like bro.
Why didn't you make him likeactual Dante?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I think they were trying to add in.
Unfortunately, maybe they weretrying to elevate the storyline,
but it doesn't need elevating.
It's not the time or place forthat on this.
I'm sorry you, just it was yeah, cool, try, but you pissed off
like the entire fan base, likeliterally everyone is mad.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So yeah, it's, it's a .
There's a decent amount ofpeople that are pretty upset
about like it's.
You know we're reaching t baithere with this, with levels of
people not that bad, because theaction was still great, true,
true, true, and it was donecleanly and it looked beautiful
it did, it did.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
We just needed, you know, um 40 percent more dante
and 40 percent last lady plays.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
We've been all right, so this last one um, this last
one crunchy rolls had its shareof drama lately and you know
we've covered a lot of it.
We've probably missed some ofit, but this latest thing, I'm
kind of glad with their decisionhere they've they've made a
u-turn and rolled back on theirdecision to use ai in anything
except back-end stuff, andthat's a problem, because
(38:15):
originally they were talkingabout using ai to uh do dubs for
, you know, shows that weren'tgonna, which is terrible.
Don't do that.
Don that, that's a horribleidea.
You're stealing money out ofpeople's pocket.
Um subbing.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Would they?
Were they going to do it forsubbing too?
Uh?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
they were just going to do it for the, the captions,
supposedly that's what I meant,but nobody ever does that.
Nobody.
That's not what happens.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You're the bad guy.
Now you're the bad guy.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
They're dubbing robot voices for everybody that sound
like yeah, 100, so they theyreversed the decision, though,
which, you know, I kind of agreewith that.
I think I I don't know if it wasjust because of the fan, you
know the, the public outcry overit, or if it was just I would,
I would.
I would have to believe thatthis has more to do with
everything that's gone down withchat, gpt lately and the noise
(39:11):
that they've brought to ai withjust the, the problems, the
massive amount of problems, um,with putting things out there
that aren't ready to be put outthere.
You know, you can make it.
You could make you could makethe case that everybody's that's
going out there and makingthose studio ghibli, um, like
the, the art off of other things.
They're like they're making thestudio studio ghibli ai art.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
You could definitely put that down as like copyright
infringement oh yeah, becausethere's there's a lot of issues
with it and I think it's madeenough noise that I think their
decision here had nothing to dowith the fans and everything.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
This is too politically spicy to mess with
and it's, and it's got a.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
It's got a toxic flair to it, because people are
really mad about it.
So they're like you know what,let's just bail.
But hope does that mean laterthey're gonna try, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
So that's my take right.
That's what I think is gonnahappen.
When everything about ai isquieted down, they'll shove it
back through and just kind ofbackdoor.
Then we'll have robot ai dubvoices.
It's a weird world.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Man, that's the kind of.
I heard there's an ai animethat was made, which I don't
know much I saw of art.
I was like wait what I'm like?
Oh man, here we go.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So I heard about that as well, and I'll have to look
it up.
Um, I I don't even rememberwhat podcast I was listening to.
I think I was listening toanime addicts.
Uh, I think it was them, animeaddicts, anonymous, and I just
saw.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, I saw someone was like wait what?
And I heard it got banned orsomething like it got.
I don't remember.
It was something like theydidn't let it go through or it
was going to be on some site, orI don't really remember, but
I'm like that's I mean I can't,yeah, yeah, we're going.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I can't speak to it enough because I didn't pay
enough.
Yeah, I'm like for me it's forme, it's another day in the life
of.
Oh, it's another thing.
People are using ai for that.
They shouldn't.
The list grows right.
What do we got for?
Hot takes this time, buddy.
All right, brother, which animerivalry would be the deadliest
in real life?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
oh, I mean, dude, I guess light and hell man, he got
that death note.
You're going down, baby, it'sover.
Wow, I didn't even think aboutthat one, bro.
He's gonna be like dead you'redone because light.
Light doesn't play your.
Second, he finds your name,especially with social like
think of just time out for a sec.
Death note doesn't really workin the modern social media world
(41:22):
.
I think you'd find it too easyA name, don't you think?
Don't you think You'd be likewho is?
I mean?
Maybe if you're a secretdetective, maybe not, but if
he's like, yeah, I'm killingthis dude.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I think they should explore this as a follow-up
series.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, it would be interesting, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
It's not Death Note.
It's twitter death twitter,death social media.
Death x, death x.
That sounds cool.
What's your, uh, your one forthis?
Honestly, this is the I thoughtyou were gonna go with this one
goku versus vegeta, their earlyrivalry moments, like when
they're fighting.
Like when they're fighting,like I was thinking like more
mass universe destruction,because everything that they do
(42:00):
creates like like that's where Ithought, that's where I thought
you were gonna go and that'swhat I would go with, like in
real life, because the just thefallout like light might kill
one dude with the book, rightbut the fallout from goku
exploding a building on accidentjust because he threw vegeta
into it.
Those you know.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That's gonna kill a lot more people true, I was
coming at it as uh, if I was acharacter, who would I?
Now, I don't want l.
Oh True, I was coming at it asa.
If I was a character, who would?
I know, I don't want L.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Oh yeah, now I was coming at it like which would be
the you know the citizen.
Yes, I'm the random guy.
What's the what's the deadliestrivalry?
Like what does the most damage?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
It's good.
What could take me?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
yeah, yeah yeah, see we link different.
That's why this works man well.
I mean not, if I had slide andglide, I'd get out of there.
You can get away.
Yeah, you'd be able to justslide right on out of there.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah well, I think that about wraps us up this week
.
Absolutely, man, this isdefinitely a fun episode.
Uh, rival city for sure yeah,absolutely all right.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
So love what we're doing.
Hit that follow on your podcastapp and smash that sub button
on youtube.
We'd love to hear your favoriteanime rivalries, uh in the
comments or online.
So jump in and let us know yeah, guys, let's go jump in.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Thank you.
Welcome to Realm Jumpers.
I'm Andrew and this is myco-host, jordan.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hey everyone.
We're here to dive into theworlds of fantasy and anime,
bringing you epic stories andunforgettable adventures.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
We'll be talking world building, unforgettable
villains and everything thatmakes these genres legendary.
So let's jump into the Realmand everything that makes these
genres legendary.
So let's jump into the Realm.
If you think Goku vs Vegeta isthe peak of anime rivalries, you
haven't been paying attention.
This is Realm Jumpers, andtoday we're breaking down the
(00:36):
rivalries that have beenredefining the genre.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I am so excited for this one buddy.
This is going to be a goodepisode.
I can just feel it.
Oh yeah, dude, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I mean, this is mostly be a good episode.
I could just feel it.
Oh yeah, dude, I'm ready.
I mean, this is mostly yourterritory, but I still have
opinions.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I always have oh yeah , oh, your opinions on one of
these two is gonna beinteresting.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
I already, I already know, I think there's probably
two of them were my opinionfreak.
Is that dude talking about?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
yeah, what does he mean?
Speaker 1 (00:59):
well, let's just start with.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Uh, you know goku vegeta.
I mean you kind of mentionedhim in the opener there and you
know they're one of the mainones.
First off, I am a vegeta stanto the day I die.
He is my guy, although goku hasgrown on me over the years.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Now I like um, and it's probably for the same
reason, to be honest, becausegoku's just too and he's too
much naruto like he's he's justlike already, starting with, the
hot takes world power, likethat's all he cares about.
Like I gotta be the best.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
You know what I mean yeah, goku's um, I like his
silliness a little bit, but thensometimes it does get a little
ridiculous because you're likedude, you're gonna give the
villain a sense of being, areyou?
Are you serious?
Like, what are we talking about?
But you know they, they're justfundamentally different.
You know the whole pride versusprogress thing and you know
Vegeta starts off heavy man, hepops into the story and he's
(01:50):
killing people and straightvillain.
I mean total, I love killingand I'm going to kill everyone
around me.
You know, he's just, he's ballsto the wall man, he's ready to
go.
And then, of course, we getback to him on Namek.
And now he's really mad becausehe lost to Goku.
How dare this lowborn Saiyanbeat the prince?
And he is just on a tear manKilling poor Namekian villagers.
(02:14):
I mean killing Frieza's Ben,which is pretty cool, but he was
just, you know, on a tear andthen, of course, culminating in
the iconic Super Saiyan.
Goku hits it.
He can't, you know, he dies,frieza kills him.
Yeah, and Vegeta is one ofthose guys, man, he comes back,
it's wish back and he juststarts training.
You know, nonstop I'm going toget Super Saiyan.
(02:35):
If he can do it, I can do itand I really think that you know
he goes from villain to,honestly, his best friend at
this point.
Him and goku are boys.
I mean, they really are.
If you watch super they mightyou know he hates him a little
bit, but he needs him.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
So that's dragon ball super right with a tournament
yeah that no yeah the, thetournament of power.
That's dragon ball super right.
Yep, that has one of myfavorite uh vegeta speeches oh,
and that tournament of powerwhen, uh, yeah, I don't, I can't
even what he say Step into thedomain of the gods, or whatever.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Dude, epic scene, epic.
And then you know him.
I like that they twisted theminto friends, best friends,
because it's one of those weirdthings where he hates them but
he really doesn't, because ifGoku were to die for real
forever, he would be like allhis motivation's gone.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Why, for real, forever he would be like all his
motivation's gone.
Why would he train anymore?
You know he really wouldn't.
He probably would just bechilling most of the time.
Yeah, I mean this was the I Idon't, this was kind of the
defining the start of the youknow, the anime rivals, I think
like I can't think of one beefand same.
Yeah, I mean it started out aswhat?
Jealousy, honestly, because itfelt like jealousy in and oh 100
dude and not just because gokuwas stronger.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
It was like you're stronger, but I'm like how could
you be stronger than me?
It doesn't make sense, yeahright but I can respect the
grind.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
I mean he's trying to get stronger.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
That's like his main thing, dude right, his flashback
scene when he achieved supersaiyan and he was training and
like was about to die on thatrandom planet and he was like
just losing it and so angry thathe couldn't do it.
And then he snaps and that'swhen he hits super saiyan epic
scene, man, I mean just it'sepic.
You know, of course goku supersaiyan scene is probably more
(04:15):
iconic.
But vegeta was like I'm gonna,I'm gonna get there.
You know, if he can do it, Ican do it.
And I think one of my mostfavorite funny vegeta moments is
when his own son and gotenturned super saiyan and he's
like a seven-year-old can turninto it.
Are you kidding me?
You've turned this into a plate, a child's blade.
He was so mad about it.
But then it makes sense becausethey're they're having kids
(04:38):
when they're already like supersaiyan one, two, whatever.
Of course the kids would beable to do it quicker, but
there's no meaning, you knowwhat I mean.
But yeah, definitely, uh, aniconic, uh rival system.
You know, going on this one, Ican't wait for your takes on the
naruto sasuke.
I remember you went to rantabout them before.
I mean, come on, start a littlebit here well, here's the thing
(05:01):
, dude.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
So you know, we've already mentioned this kind of
defining moment or how a rivalry, and you would think, following
that, that people would followthe.
You know the formula.
But I, I I'm opposite.
Take you gotta, you gotta finddifferent ways to meet the same
for the rivalry that just is thesame thing over.
It's gonna get boring, um, andI think great partially, that's
(05:23):
the problem with the Narutoversus Sasuke rivalry.
And here's where I'm going toget flamed is because, dude,
it's boring, like you didn't doanything special, like it's the
same.
Ok, so you know I've alreadygone off on the tangent of
Sasuke's epically tragicbackstory, which I cannot stand.
And it's not that it's a badbackstory, it's just they drug
it out way too long they did.
(05:43):
And it's not that it's a badbackstory, it's just they drug
it out way too long they did.
But aside from that tragicbackstory, there's almost no
difference between goku jita andnaruto sasuke, like, yes, there
are major differences, Iunderstand that, but it feels
the same, it's got the sameenergy.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's to me like the difference with this with me is
like okay, goku, he wasn't likechosen and just magically got
all the he trained his ass off.
Vegeta did too.
Naruto did he trained his assoff.
Sasuke was just golden boy.
I mean, he's just literallyfrom jump.
I can do all this great stuffbecause I'm a Uchiha and I like
(06:18):
that.
That made Naruto like this sucks.
I want to be as strong as him,which is that part of the north
journey is great.
But in my opinion, sasuke nevergrew as a character really and
it was just I'm mad, I'm emo.
Obviously you have a terriblebackstory.
We all agree and be upset aboutit, but it was like I'm gonna
(06:39):
screw over people to getstronger, if I have to.
Naruto never did that, so itwas one of those things.
And I think the part withsasuke which it's funny because
I have him nartan never did that, so it was one of those things.
And I think the part withsasuke which it's funny because
I have him up there, like I likesasuke as a character, but oh,
same dude, I like.
This isn't me saying like sasukeis the worst, like, yeah, like
I like him but also like I thinkI don't respect too much of him
(07:00):
for a long time, because it waslike hey, if I got to go work
for or tomorrow, I'll do it, ifI have to do this, I'll do it.
And it just kind of got to thepoint where it's like buddy, you
know that the village didn'tkill your family, like that was
donzo.
So why are you gonna likeattack the leaf village?
Why are you gonna all of asudden want to be like well, I
want to be the okage, like younever cared about that because
he doesn't care.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Dude, he's a spoiled little brat.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
That's my problem with Sasuke.
Yeah, dude, that's my thingwith him.
Like I can understand.
His backstory is terrible.
I understand you found out yourbrother was good and not really
bad.
I get all that.
I understand you being likewell, I want to kill the dude
that set this up On board,brother, let's go.
But now you're like I'm goingto destroy and kill everyone in
the Leaf Village.
(07:41):
Huh, destroy and kill everyonein the leaf village.
Huh, what?
What are you talking about?
So he just always seemed tojust go like too far.
And then I understand they hadto have a final battle because
they built it up from theoriginal show to the, you know,
shippuden.
But I just think it just washandled so bad because that
fight he's trying to kill himand naruto wasn't fighting like
(08:01):
that.
So it just, oh, it just seemedlike the writing wrote into a
corner and it was like we haveto fight.
So he's gonna just go back oneverything and he's like well,
I'm gonna kill you and be okage,it was right, it's yeah.
Um, they ran out of stuff forsasuke to say, they used it all
up in the first 800 episodesright, right, like I I told you
(08:22):
before, I would have rather himbeen like hey, I don't want to
murder you, I'd like to fightyou for okage.
At least.
That's like an honorable battle, right this?
Dude was trying to cut his headoff the whole fight yeah, no,
for sure, come on, man, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Has anybody ever checked this?
What would the episode countfor?
Narutobi took out all of woe.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Is me sasuke oh man, I mean they drug on like the
next time power leveling dragonball z, like it just kept going
and going.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Dude, I bet you can cut out like 70 episodes I was
thinking 50 at least, but yeah,70, I yeah and then cut out the
naruto on the uh, on the um, theswing cut that out too, nah you
know what?
Speaker 2 (09:03):
no, that was impactful most of the time yeah,
but like after the 20th, ninthtime, like we get it.
You know, the kids hated you?
Yeah, absolutely so.
All right, let's move on.
So we got light and l fromdeath note, which is such a
different type of you knowsituation absolutely.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
This is like a sherlock holmes versus moriarty
and a thing, for that's the wayI've been, you know and the
thing that's so crazy about thisand I might get flamed for this
one.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
I love Death Note, but when L gets murked like it's
not that good anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
It went downhill.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
It went so downhill and I understand like his
protagies come in and all that,but how are you going to tell me
that L lost in this?
I don don't remember the kid'sname, the one that actually won
at the end.
I don't even remember whichpart of it was this ending?
I don't remember, yeah, and Iremember the ending, but and it
just it wasn't as good, althoughthe l verse light part was so
different than anything still tothis day to be honest.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Well, I mean that I wasn't kidding about the
sherlock holmes moriarty thing,dude, that's what it is like.
That whole the the story arcwhen um light has himself forget
.
You know, he gives him oh yeah,and he has himself forget that
he was ever like holding thebook.
So then he's like got thiswhole plan that he's put.
I don't know, I loved that.
Part of the art was great andthat was like this feels like a
(10:19):
sherlock home or you alreadythink we're?
Definitely not friends thisisn't like goku and naruto you
know, and these other fellas.
This is like I fucking guts anduh it's just light.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Was such a psycho man yeah, he was absolutely insane
but like compelling because he'sthe main character, like it's
just that was.
I still haven't seen anythinglike that and it's been years
and years.
I don't think they've ever seenanother series.
Quite like the villain is themain character and you kind of
like him, although you know heneeds to lose, but you don't
(10:49):
want him to lose.
I don't know, I can't think ofanything.
So I still think to this daythat the chess match and in a
weird way, like Light, reallythought he was doing justice but
it was kind of a facade becausethe second he almost got caught
.
He was cool with killingregular people.
You know what I mean but did hethough?
Speaker 1 (11:07):
did he really think he was doing justice outside of
the first?
No, that's what I said.
Maybe the first four episodes.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
He thought, yeah, and then it was like, oh well, if I
have, I'm a piece of crap.
Yeah, he, he, yeah, great, Imean such a great series, all
right.
So the next one, man, I Ifinished Black Clover right, or
are you right at the end of it?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
I'm dude, I'm so close to which now I'm just mad.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Same dude.
I've been waiting years, but uh, you know, versus Asta, which
we talked about a little bitbefore, but it's very different
than the Naruto Sasuke one.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Although it seems like it's going to be the same,
and that was one of the threereasons that I originally
stopped watching it.
Episode one the first time whenBlack Clover first came out, I
watched episode one just becauseyou know the trailer looked.
Watch episode one and I'm likenot turning this off.
I was like this dude has gotway too much in common with
Naruto and Natsu.
I was like it's the weirdestmashup of the two most idiotic
(12:06):
tendencies that those two guyshave and I was like this is
terrible.
I don't want to watch it.
You were the one that convincedme to like pick it back up, but
and I did.
I had to get past.
It was, I don't lie, it was somuch yelling.
I had to get past like episodefour, but I, I think this one's
named right you, you named thisone, you know, versus Asta, and
I don't think it's you know,versus.
Also, have you seen the show?
it's asta versus everybody,because every other episode
(12:28):
somebody's making a new rivalrywith austin, they're like you're
my rival.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
My favorite is the the fire kid and he's just like.
He's like what are you talkingabout?
Man?
Like he doesn't even see anyoneas a rival, but you know
everyone else is like back.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Maybe he sees the captains but no, he does
fogoleon, because, uh, fogoleonacknowledges him as a rival
first, and he, you know he'seating it up and that he's using
that to try to push himself tobe stronger.
That's right yami.
I don't.
I don't think yami everactually says it, because yami's
in a whole differentstratosphere.
But oh yeah, silva, um, what'shis face hair boy, because yeah,
(13:03):
noelle her brother her brother,the one with the hair in his
face.
Oh, uh, yeah, yeah yeah, heacknowledged asta as a rival too
, and it's like, dude, it's likeevery three episodes, once you
get past the first, you know,once he becomes a magic knight,
it's like this is asta versuseverybody.
This is that's the rivalry.
It's awesome everybody else.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
they're like captains .
Talking to like a low rank dudewho just started, but yeah, but
in his mind it's you know, it'sa, you know like that's he's
got to, he's got to be thewizard king before you know it
is, you know.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
This one, yeah.
This one's refreshing for me,though, because this is more
about the actual power offriendship than you know the
previous ones, right friendshipthan you know the previous ones,
right light and l.
They hated each other.
Um, goku and vegeta.
Obviously they started outenemies.
Uh, natsu versus sasuke we canbeat that one to death, yeah, um
(13:52):
, but this one, you know, versusasta, they're friends for the
most part.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Asta, I mean, you know, is a dick, but they're
they're they're friendsespecially when it shows the
backstory and it's like dude, hewas fighting for you.
Like you're really gonna likebe an ass now.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, he just got his ass kicked to get your necklace
back.
And now you're gonna be likeI'm gonna be the wizard king too
, like wait bro, what?
Why did?
I thought we're.
We're brothers.
What are you talking about?
Yeah, I'm gonna give thisnecklace back to this other guy.
Yeah, like you.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
And then I always just felt like I mean, yes,
although it does have the oldgolden boy syndrome like Sasuke,
where he just gets every power,you know, because he's blessed
by magic, but it is cool that itdoes they do seem to be
leveling up at the same level.
You know, like meeting eachother, like it is refreshing in
(14:40):
a weird way.
I mean it's very similar to thelike the next one, the Natsu
Gray one.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
I mean they are buddies but they throw down all
the time fire, yeah they're morefriends than and this is like
the tears right, so like if youwere to go less friends versus
like closer to being friendsversus further away from friends
.
Like you know not soon gray aredefinitely closer to the
friends versus further away fromfriends.
Like you know, natsu and grayare definitely closer to the.
(15:06):
We're actually friends, we'rejust pretending.
Yeah, then, like natsu andsasuke, because that's almost
like a natsu wanted to befriends with everybody, because
nobody was his friend and sasukejust didn't give a crap,
because everyone wanted himanyway, right that?
doesn't really count, likethat's not a great friendship.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Um, so yeah, natsu and Gray and Yuno versus Asta,
those are the ones that areactually close to you know, like
actual based on friendships andyou know it's funny because as
long as they're friends, untilNatsu goes a little too far with
the jokes and Gray's taking offhis shirt and he's like or
they're drinking.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Put your clothes back on gray.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, I, they're just , they're a funny team.
And then, you know, gray lateron gets way stronger with his
other part and stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
His dad was insane, dude, insane.
That's off topic, but his dadwas insane yeah that I love them
.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
As you know, two buddies slash rivals.
But come on, dragon slayer.
Sorry buddy, he beats you.
Sorry man, he's got dragonslayer magic well, here's the
thing.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I heard a rumor, um, and I'm not going to find it
right now, but I heard a rumorthat when he um, he was writing
that he had originally intendedto unveil gray as another dragon
slayer during the during thetournament arc, and then he
changed his mind.
Was there an ice one?
I don't know, but that's whatgray was supposed to be like in
his original.
That's pretty cool, like in hismind.
(16:29):
Canon stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
You know what is he?
A demon slayer, right?
He ended up being a demonslayer or something, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
yeah, but he was going to be like the ice dragon
slayer.
Oh man, that would have beencool, but but the demon thing
was cool.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Though the demon thing it was, it was cool, cool.
All right, so let's move on.
So the next one you can't talkon at all, because I don't think
you started it.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I started Vigilantes and I know you told me to do it
the other way around, but Iwanted to watch the prequel
first.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
dude, it's fine bro, it's fine, did you like it Slide
?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
and Glide.
No, that is the greatest namefor the worst power.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So wait till you see how that goes on and how he gets
better with it, but yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Oh no, I'm sure.
Yeah, no, it's good, it's funny.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
So in the main series , bakugo and Midoriya.
So I don't know if you've seenclips or anything, but Bakugo is
straight up bullying material.
Just bully the hell out of thisboy.
And you know, poor, poorMidoriya, poor Deku has no
powers.
Bakugo shoots bobs from hishands like dude, stop being a
jerk.
And they were childhood friendslike, grew up together and
(17:34):
Bakugo was always the leader ofthe group because he was the
strongest quirk user of theirlittle friend group.
Deku didn't have any at all, soto him he's like.
You know, he was never like,hated Bakugou and even when, if
I remember correctly, I thinksomeone was going to drown,
maybe Bakugou and he saved him.
He was like you don't need tosave me, I don't need your
sympathy type stuff.
But when good old Midoriya getsone for all power and starts
(17:57):
having abilities, bakugo isfurious because he thought that
he was hiding his power theirwhole lives and he was like you
little bastard, how dare youhide this from me?
So is it like when Sasuke findsout that Naruto is actually
(18:26):
jealous of the power?
No, so the whole thing withthat is in the my Hero world,
all Might, which is the goatpretty much.
He gives a piece of hair toMidoriya and he's like you got
to eat it if you want to be thenext user of my power.
So he actually passes it toMidoriya.
The only problem is that poorMidoriya is already.
He didn't grow up with thispower, so he pretty much has to
like slowly become accustomedwhere if he punches someone with
it it'll break his hand andstuff.
So no one can know that thatpower was passed on Like it's a
(18:50):
secret, so you can't tell Bakugo.
And Bakugo is like you've beenlying to me, that you've had a
power this entire time.
So he feels slighted and like Ithought we were friends I guess
not.
So he really tries to bully him.
And then it kind of you know,goes from there and Midori gets
stronger and stronger and he'salways getting stronger, which
pushes Bakugou to get stronger.
(19:13):
And then eventually I mean not aspoiler, because we're way far
ahead in the series now it'salmost over, I think it's like
the last season's coming up soonand Baku learns that All Might
gave him the power.
Well, all Might was Baku'sfavorite hero too.
So it's like this whole thing,like I'm going to keep up with
you.
I can be the next All Might,and then, as it kind of wraps
(19:36):
the story.
It's like a mutual respectsituation.
Um, they do end up fighting um,testing each other out, and
they both are pretty equal.
But midoriya, just, he blowspast because that's the story.
He has to um, but but itbecomes a respect and it becomes
a like um, you know, sorry thatI treated you that way.
I didn't you know, he didn'tknow, he thought that he was
being lied to so he was reallybeing a dick of it, really, um,
(19:57):
but no, it no.
Baku is a great character.
I thought originally you'dthink they're doing the Sasuke
thing with him, like joining abad guy to get stronger, and it
completely.
He's like I'll never be bad, Iwant to be, I'm a hero, even
though he yells at people andcurses at people and he's a
little abrasive.
But he's not the Sasuke Like.
But he's not the Sasuke like.
If I have to be bad to getstronger, I'm going to do it.
(20:18):
That's not Bakugo.
So how do you think?
Speaker 1 (20:20):
this one like advanced the rivalry trope, or
did it just kind of more of thesame lately told?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I think it did advance it because originally
it's framed that you kind ofhate Bakugo because he's a bully
and it really kind of growsMidoriya because right before he
even gets the all might, he hasno power.
A villain attacks, he grabsbakugo bakugo's gonna die and he
runs out and pulls him out ofthis thing with no power.
(20:49):
So it shows midoriya's like I'mgonna be a hero no matter what,
and that does inspire bakugo tobe like want to be a hero.
I think it was good becausethey didn't do the I'm going to
get stronger at any expensething.
I'm going to get stronger on myown, which is what Bacchus was
trying to do.
I think it did push it forward.
Of course it has the wholesuperhero angle, so it's a
little different already, youknow.
(21:10):
But in a weird way you have twocharacters that they want to
become the successor to All.
Might is literally likesuperman at this point.
So they want to be the nextsymbol of peace and they're both
vying for this.
Uh, you know this.
Uh, I don't want to even saytitle, but kind of a title.
I think it pushed it forward.
Um, but they grew a lot becauseit was definitely antagonistic,
(21:33):
into respect and it wasn'tquick.
It took like a long time.
It ended up being bakugan,pushed him to be to master his
power faster, type thing gotcha.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
So what about?
Uh, as far as the you know thetrope is concerned, in anime you
have new shows like windbreak,where it becomes like another
thing, where sakura is, it'skind of like an asta situation.
You know it's sakura versuseverybody.
Everybody's become his rival.
But they also blend in thepower of friendship and they
mention it in the show.
You know like everybody'sgetting stronger because Sakura
(22:02):
showed up and you know his freshtake on things is like pushing
everybody to be better.
That's the power of friendship.
That's exactly what that is.
So is there anything that theyneed to do to change the trope
Like, or is it good on its own,as long as you keep trying to a
fresh spin on it?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
I mean you're gonna have to put a fresh spin on it,
like kind of what you're sayingearlier, otherwise it's gonna be
the same.
But if you're, if you, you knowall these different ones we
talked about, these are allstill the same.
Well, besides, uh, l and likeum, everyone else, it is kind of
they do have their own littlefresh spins on things, and then
some of them do better thanothers of, because are they
(22:39):
friends?
Are they not like all thatstuff?
Yeah, yeah, um, I don't thinkthe trope.
I mean I wouldn't change thetrope yeah, no, it's not tired
yet, yeah, I would try to putunique spins on it because you
kind of have you have it's partof shonen like you have to have
a rival situation, becausethat's what makes one of or both
characters need to grow andthat's the thing that pushes
(23:02):
them past their quote limitsright A lot of times.
I think you probably need it inmost shonen, which is what
we're kind of seeing when you'rereading through all this stuff
or talking about it.
But there's also just you gotto do it like you're saying a
windbreaker, you.
You know that's interestingstory because he was always
ostracized because he lookeddifferent.
He was always had to fight onhis own.
(23:23):
Now he joins a gang or a group,whatever that they're all like
got each other's back and theydon't care that he looks
different.
They're like hey, can you fight?
And even if you can't fight,the one kid can't fight at all
and he, they're protecting him,like they love him too.
So I, I like that.
You know it's kind of like adifferent spin on it.
For sure?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
well, so that's the, that's the thing, right, though
it's essentially the same storyas naruto, if you, if you take
it down to the bare bones, rightlike you've got abused, slash,
slash, ostracized, who has tofight his own battles, and he's
looking for, he's looking forfriends, except he won't admit
that he's looking for friendsyeah, you know, naruto does
admit that, and that's the freshspin, for naruto wanted friends
(24:01):
sakura, still pretending thathe doesn't need yeah, because
he's like if I become the leaderthe strongest, then everyone,
that'll be okay.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Meanwhile, he's like got a whole group of people
around that he's realizing, orlike right you know like, hey,
buddy, we're all your friends.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
This is the power of friendship circle.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, hey, rainbow hugs yeah, right now let's go
kick some ass which, by the way,side note on that do they have
teachers?
Where's the teachers in thatshow, bro?
I thought about that?
Speaker 1 (24:26):
what are they teaching them?
Speaker 2 (24:27):
advanced, advanced, whoop, ass like they're chilling
in class and I'm like why dothey go to class if there's not
a teacher?
Speaker 1 (24:33):
they're all gonna graduate with gardening degrees
outside of that.
I don't know.
Dude, I don't.
The school's vandalized.
They're all going to graduatewith gardening degrees Outside
of that?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Dude, the school's vandalized.
They're all just chilling andthe kid walks in, they all get
in a fight.
I'm like I love this show, butis there adults?
What's going on?
There are no adults.
I guess he's alone.
He seems to live alone.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
He doesn't have parents, so yeah, how does that
work, how work, how does thatwork, because that's every
shonen ever they don't haveparents where are your parents
like who is responsible for youchild?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
and sara toby, sara toby clearly did a terrible job
that's another episode on it.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, but I mean like that's, that's what it is
shonen is.
You know what I've justdiscovered?
What shonen is about?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
shonen is about terrible parents dead beat dads,
just deadbeat or leaving right.
You know good old uh going injane right yeah, no, it's I got
stuff to do kids.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Yeah, that's what shonen is.
So it's.
It's a modern peter pan storythat I.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
That's that shonen I mean it's an alarming amount of
them that they're not the bestdad.
I mean goku's not really a gooddad.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
You know what I mean it's not so much that they're
not the best, it's just they'renot there, right yeah, they're
all gone.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
The parents are always gone they gotta train,
they gotta go on a mission.
You know, yeah, yeah, well, I Ithink we could do the honorable
mention.
I mean ichigo and uru frombleach.
You know, I love my boy, ichigo, but you know what's weird?
I never saw uru as a rival tohim, because he's so much
stronger than him.
Well, I mean, I think this isprobably why it's an honorable
(26:04):
mention, right like yeah, yeahhe's like, but it's weird
because I feel like uru is arival in uru's mind, but ichigo
just doesn't even think aboutthat.
He's like you're not even on mylevel, kid, what are you
talking about?
Because I, I think uru likes uh, urahime, and rahimi doesn't
care about that because she's inlove with ichigo, right?
I just think ichigo is justlike living his life and this
(26:25):
other guy's like hating on him.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
He doesn't even know, I don't know.
I will say the um, all thesmack talk in bleach is and and
I love sub.
Uh, let preface that by sayingI love sub yeah I I.
There are only a few that Iwatch.
Bleach is one of those ones Igotta watch in dub because the
smack talk is better in dub.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Dude, he kills it in the smack talk.
He's just Ichigo is one of thebest.
He just he runs that mouth.
Man, I love it.
That's why I love him.
He's always running his mouth,for sure.
Well, yeah, I think that'spretty much most of them.
Now, are we?
You want to move on to therumor time?
Yeah, let's dive into realmroom um, these are spicy ones
(27:07):
this week.
Oh man, I don't even know.
We got two big ones that Idon't really know which one is.
All right, I'm gonna take thisfirst one.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
I'm gonna take the first one just okay, because
it's funny and it's not funny,it's terrible, and I want to be
sad and cry.
The beginning after the end.
The fans have started apetition to completely end the
anime and re.
Just restart it from the get-go.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
They're like nope, scrap this crap, get rid of it,
let's, let's start over like thefirst part, like a part of me
is like maybe you know say like,can we get a new studio for
season two?
They're like nah, no, justscrap delete it stop releasing
the episodes and that's the bestpart right though, because
usually you're right.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's like can we get somebody else for season two?
It's like no, that's the bestpart.
Right though, because usuallyyou're right.
It's like can we get somebodyelse for season two?
It's like no, that's not thepetition.
The petition is straight uplike delete it, stop this so
this is.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
This is what's confusing about this to me,
because I I'm gonna end upreading it because everyone said
it's a great story and I wantto read fantastic story.
Yeah, so I'm gonna, I'm gonnado it.
But the thing that blows meaway is every report that I read
about this, which there are somany about the, the terrible
animation, and I agree like comeon, guys, um, but besides, that
(28:15):
is, the creator chose thisstudio is that verified?
I don't.
I've seen it like 50 timeswhere it's like turtle, whoever
they chose, and I'm like was ityou chose them because you got a
kickback, like what is going onhere?
Because why would?
Speaker 1 (28:29):
you.
This is crazy and that thatdoesn't track for me because,
honestly, even if you get akickback, you're cannibalizing
your own story and the abilityfor it to ever go anywhere in
animation yeah, yeah, I dude,and especially like it's a
webtoon, it's a manhwa, and thenyou had just had so leveling,
which was amazing action,everything was great.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
And then this comes out.
It's got all this hype and thenit's just like you guys watched
the episode before you releasedthem, right, like you saw.
It was just like did you notquality control these?
Speaker 1 (29:01):
you know what t-bait, the t-bait, anime, anime can be
summed up just grab one ofthose old, like flip style comic
books where you just flip.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
That that's t-bait, that's the dude, it's crazy and
I feel like I would like.
This is the thing.
I feel like I would like it.
I feel like I like the designsand like it's interesting so far
, but the second you're doing apunch and it's just like frozen.
And then there's lines, actionlines.
I'm like what is going on?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
nobody watched this well, and it double makes me mad
, right, because this storyblends in a little bit of the
chinese cultivation stuff, whichis awesome.
I like that.
I.
I'm just starting to get intothat a little bit, like I've
started to read a few seriesthat innovation stuff and it's
good and I was super excited tosee this like take place and now
(29:48):
I'm like I'm gonna go sign the20 times every email that you
have all of them all of the.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Yes, I I thought it was people.
Honestly, I thought people werejust being dramatic because,
like it's not so lovely, it's.
So yeah, then I, I watched thetwo already.
I'm gonna watch the wholeseries, but I watch them and I'm
just like.
I'm just confused, like verywhy did you guys do this?
Or why did you choose a studiothat didn't have the chops?
I?
I need to understand it.
(30:15):
At this point the author needsto say something like you guys
can't just pretend like it's not, I don't know it's a strange
situation it absolutely in thetheme of anime that should have
been great and are just mad.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
You want to lead off on the next one dude, it's just
like the.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
The other anime was better, the what?
Are we talking about from thedumb anime, from like no, I know
, but you gotta talk about whatit is no, but I'm just like, you
know.
I the original anime was betterthat is the hottest of hot it
was like I'm sorry, and you'rewatching this and like look, I I
don't understand why, lady orwhatever, why was she?
(30:53):
I felt like she was in the showmore than he was.
Okay, and I'm like I'm confusedwhy we're focusing so much on
the honor and then it doesn't.
It's like we're not watchingthis for this character like
yeah, no, absolutely like.
This is now when there was someaction with dante.
It was cool.
I still don't know why hedidn't have his guns.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Okay, I don't know, hold on.
Devil may cry.
Peaked at who are we shootingat?
That was peak, that was it.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
That was it, but time .
How did she beat him infighting?
I don't like what?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
this wasn't devil may cry.
This wasn't devil may cry.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
This was lady may try , but I don't know the episode
that, bro, that is the best,that dude.
I was watching this and I'mlike, okay, I guess we're
focusing on lady her backstory,okay, and rabbit was cool.
Rabbit was cool whatever I'vegot issues with that too, though
, I know.
But like, how in the world arewe gonna make demons like
(31:50):
they're just being persecutednow?
Yeah, look, I I'm all we'redoing like what?
What are we?
Speaker 1 (31:55):
doing.
Dude, I'm all for the like.
Let's give the evil bad guyssome character depth and make it
a introspective story where wetalk about society as a whole.
I'm all about that.
That's fine, but time and placeand devil may cry is not the
time or the place to have anintrospective on our society.
That's a shoot-em-up action.
(32:17):
It should have remained ashoot-em-up action.
Add a little bit of story, andwe were looking for the cocky
one-liners.
We got some of that, but we gotmore false bravado with I have
no idea what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Um, that was I don't know, here's what's weird action
was fantastic though the actionwas cool, but like you have him
making jokes, which is great,perfect, and then you have this
like super heartfelt thing where, like we're just refugees
getting killed.
It's like what are we even?
What are we doing?
Like it doesn't belong in.
Devil may cry.
It doesn't.
It doesn't match the tone ofthe show, it doesn't match the
(32:49):
game story.
You're just trying to make somekind of statement and you've
made the statement that youdon't know what the hell you're
doing and let me just say that,the entire episode, with no
words, and it's just the episodeof backstory, yeah, backstory
between lady and rabbit.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
I'm like, bro, I no longer care about either one of
you.
I hope you both die.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, I was out, I was forward through and I like
lady outside of this show dude,they made her obnoxious, they
made her too dang strong andthey focused way too much on her
and honestly, yeah, do I needto hear?
Look, I curse okay, but everyother word, can we just chill a
little bit, like it's, it's,it's just coming off?
(33:34):
She was obnoxious, like that'sjust every time that she was on
screen.
I literally I'm like, can wemove on?
And and she was on there a lot,dude, like towards the end it
was like literally half theepisode of every at least, at
least and I'm like is it calledlady may cry or don't, devil
don't?
what are we doing?
Like, where is dante?
And then he would just oh, hegot caught again.
(33:55):
What?
What are we talking about, man?
It was weird.
I'm very disappointed and I'mvery and I know we mentioned it
off air earlier.
You don't really care about thepolitics part, but also that
don't need to be in there.
You know you don't need to bethrowing that into there.
It was this isn't that animeit's not the anime and I don't
know if you knew that was kevinconroy.
It's his last voiceover he everdid before he died and hearing
(34:18):
him that last time and that'sthe character.
And it's like this stupidpolitic thing you're talking
about.
Like bro, they're called demons.
Man like I, what are we doing?
Like like I, I just don't.
Well, oh, the low level ones,they're not bad, but whatever,
what then?
If that's the case, then why issparta do all this?
Well, and what?
Speaker 1 (34:38):
was honestly like okay, I get it, they're not all
bad, because obviously Spartawas good, right, or approaching
good.
Dante is mostly good Most ofthe time.
Yeah, virgil also.
Yeah, that's like I don't knowkind of go either way.
Virgil's good sometimes, right.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Yeah, but they're going to.
They're going to mess him up,they're going to ruin it.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Well, no he's still as far as what that story is
concerned, and that's the thing.
Like that's not, devil may cry,I don't care.
Like it's you think about it inthe video game terms, right,
like it's a shoot them up actionthing.
That's what I want to freakingsee like um, that's that, that's
all it was supposed to havebeen.
This isn't the time for socialintrospection.
(35:17):
This isn't the time forpolitics politics weirdness.
Like it's not that I don't agreewith some of the shit you're
saying, but like I just want towatch dante blow up demons.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
I'm not here for the rest of that.
Well, the games aren't evenabout that either.
That's the thing that doesn'tmake any sense, and then it's
whatever.
Like it's just.
I was very happy for this andit was just disappointing.
The action that he was fightingwas cool, but like I would
watch a second season, but I'mnot.
If I do, I'm not excited aboutit.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Well, yeah, okay, so there's a thing, right, I will
watch season two absolutely, butI won't watch season one again,
um at all.
Yeah, yeah, whereas other shows, you know, like naruto, I've
watched three or four times,obviously not all, because
that's a lot, but, um, you know,the first, the original series.
I've watched that.
Or four times, obviously notall because that's a lot, but,
um, you know, the first, theoriginal series, I've watched
that two or three.
And then shippuden, I'vewatched that several times in
(36:11):
like batches, right, yeah, notall the one, but I've watched
story arcs, uh, this version ofdevil may cry.
You know what I did when Ifinished that I turned on the
old one and I watched the oldone.
So I was gonna say, how, how isthat one in comparison?
Speaker 2 (36:21):
now, I was thinking of looking at it again.
Okay, so the old one.
So I was going to say how isthat one in comparison?
Now, I was thinking of lookingat it again.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
Ok.
So the old one's crap too, butthe old one's crap too, but it
hits Dante Like it's.
It hits Dante like he's.
I do remember that from that oneI was like hey, this is him,
Like he's very like it hits thelow key, like I don't really
care about anything, but I'mstill gonna throw the cocky
one-liners and blow demons up.
Um, you know he's terrible atgambling and like it covers that
(36:46):
a lot, and like there's stuffaround dante that just happens
where he's just being his cool,calm, collect itself and he
throws a one-liner and thendemons explode and you're like
wait, how did you kill them witha one-liner?
Okay, okay, not great anime,but better than that, more true
to d Dante than what the new onewas.
(37:07):
And that sucks because I likeJohnny Young Bosch and he did a
great job as the voice actor.
But it's like bro.
Why didn't you make him likeactual Dante?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I think they were trying to add in.
Unfortunately, maybe they weretrying to elevate the storyline,
but it doesn't need elevating.
It's not the time or place forthat on this.
I'm sorry you, just it was yeah, cool, try, but you pissed off
like the entire fan base, likeliterally everyone is mad.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
So yeah, it's, it's a .
There's a decent amount ofpeople that are pretty upset
about like it's.
You know we're reaching t baithere with this, with levels of
people not that bad, because theaction was still great, true,
true, true, and it was donecleanly and it looked beautiful
it did, it did.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
We just needed, you know, um 40 percent more dante
and 40 percent last lady plays.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
We've been all right, so this last one um, this last
one crunchy rolls had its shareof drama lately and you know
we've covered a lot of it.
We've probably missed some ofit, but this latest thing, I'm
kind of glad with their decisionhere they've they've made a
u-turn and rolled back on theirdecision to use ai in anything
except back-end stuff, andthat's a problem, because
(38:15):
originally they were talkingabout using ai to uh do dubs for
, you know, shows that weren'tgonna, which is terrible.
Don't do that.
Don that, that's a horribleidea.
You're stealing money out ofpeople's pocket.
Um subbing.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Would they?
Were they going to do it forsubbing too?
Uh?
Speaker 1 (38:31):
they were just going to do it for the, the captions,
supposedly that's what I meant,but nobody ever does that.
Nobody.
That's not what happens.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You're the bad guy.
Now you're the bad guy.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
They're dubbing robot voices for everybody that sound
like yeah, 100, so they theyreversed the decision, though,
which, you know, I kind of agreewith that.
I think I I don't know if it wasjust because of the fan, you
know the, the public outcry overit, or if it was just I would,
I would.
I would have to believe thatthis has more to do with
everything that's gone down withchat, gpt lately and the noise
(39:11):
that they've brought to ai withjust the, the problems, the
massive amount of problems, um,with putting things out there
that aren't ready to be put outthere.
You know, you can make it.
You could make you could makethe case that everybody's that's
going out there and makingthose studio ghibli, um, like
the, the art off of other things.
They're like they're making thestudio studio ghibli ai art.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
You could definitely put that down as like copyright
infringement oh yeah, becausethere's there's a lot of issues
with it and I think it's madeenough noise that I think their
decision here had nothing to dowith the fans and everything.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
This is too politically spicy to mess with
and it's, and it's got a.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
It's got a toxic flair to it, because people are
really mad about it.
So they're like you know what,let's just bail.
But hope does that mean laterthey're gonna try, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
So that's my take right.
That's what I think is gonnahappen.
When everything about ai isquieted down, they'll shove it
back through and just kind ofbackdoor.
Then we'll have robot ai dubvoices.
It's a weird world.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Man, that's the kind of.
I heard there's an ai animethat was made, which I don't
know much I saw of art.
I was like wait what I'm like?
Oh man, here we go.
Speaker 1 (40:16):
So I heard about that as well, and I'll have to look
it up.
Um, I I don't even rememberwhat podcast I was listening to.
I think I was listening toanime addicts.
Uh, I think it was them, animeaddicts, anonymous, and I just
saw.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, I saw someone was like wait what?
And I heard it got banned orsomething like it got.
I don't remember.
It was something like theydidn't let it go through or it
was going to be on some site, orI don't really remember, but
I'm like that's I mean I can't,yeah, yeah, we're going.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
I can't speak to it enough because I didn't pay
enough.
Yeah, I'm like for me it's forme, it's another day in the life
of.
Oh, it's another thing.
People are using ai for that.
They shouldn't.
The list grows right.
What do we got for?
Hot takes this time, buddy.
All right, brother, which animerivalry would be the deadliest
in real life?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
oh, I mean, dude, I guess light and hell man, he got
that death note.
You're going down, baby, it'sover.
Wow, I didn't even think aboutthat one, bro.
He's gonna be like dead you'redone because light.
Light doesn't play your.
Second, he finds your name,especially with social like
think of just time out for a sec.
Death note doesn't really workin the modern social media world
(41:22):
.
I think you'd find it too easyA name, don't you think?
Don't you think You'd be likewho is?
I mean?
Maybe if you're a secretdetective, maybe not, but if
he's like, yeah, I'm killingthis dude.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I think they should explore this as a follow-up
series.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, it would be interesting, wouldn't it?
Speaker 1 (41:38):
It's not Death Note.
It's twitter death twitter,death social media.
Death x, death x.
That sounds cool.
What's your, uh, your one forthis?
Honestly, this is the I thoughtyou were gonna go with this one
goku versus vegeta, their earlyrivalry moments, like when
they're fighting.
Like when they're fighting,like I was thinking like more
mass universe destruction,because everything that they do
(42:00):
creates like like that's where Ithought, that's where I thought
you were gonna go and that'swhat I would go with, like in
real life, because the just thefallout like light might kill
one dude with the book, rightbut the fallout from goku
exploding a building on accidentjust because he threw vegeta
into it.
Those you know.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That's gonna kill a lot more people true, I was
coming at it as uh, if I was acharacter, who would I?
Now, I don't want l.
Oh True, I was coming at it asa.
If I was a character, who would?
I know, I don't want L.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
Oh yeah, now I was coming at it like which would be
the you know the citizen.
Yes, I'm the random guy.
What's the what's the deadliestrivalry?
Like what does the most damage?
Speaker 2 (42:37):
It's good.
What could take me?
Speaker 1 (42:49):
yeah, yeah yeah, see we link different.
That's why this works man well.
I mean not, if I had slide andglide, I'd get out of there.
You can get away.
Yeah, you'd be able to justslide right on out of there.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah well, I think that about wraps us up this week
.
Absolutely, man, this isdefinitely a fun episode.
Uh, rival city for sure yeah,absolutely all right.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
So love what we're doing.
Hit that follow on your podcastapp and smash that sub button
on youtube.
We'd love to hear your favoriteanime rivalries, uh in the
comments or online.
So jump in and let us know yeah, guys, let's go jump in.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Thank you.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!