RealtyCast Global #7: Demystifying US Immigration Laws & Purchasing Real Estate with Karen Weinstock
December 12, 2023 • 29 mins
Welcome to episode #7 of RealtyCast Global – a global connection to all things real estate, hosted by Hugh Gilliam, president of Global Property Pros.
What if we told you that the Immigration Nationality Act of 1952 needs an urgent overhaul to reflect the current workforce realities? We have Karen Weinstock, the managing attorney of Weinstock Immigration Lawyers, shedding light on this pressing issue. An immigrant herself, Karen shares her intimate understanding of the law's discrepancies and the urgent need for reform.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as we discuss the intricacies of foreign nationals purchasing property in the US. Navigating through common misconceptions, we examine the constraints non-US citizens face when procuring a mortgage and working in the US. Karen emphasizes the importance of an active business investment for securing an investor visa, debunking the myth that simply buying real estate suffices.
Closing the episode, we delve into the realm of immigration goals specific to foreign nationals involved in real estate. Through the lens of a success story, we explore how these goals can be achieved despite the challenges the immigration quota system poses. The tale of a Canadian real estate investor obtaining an investor visa, with Karen's guidance, serves as a testament to the possibilities. Tune in for an enlightening understanding of US immigration and its impact on the real estate industry, straight from one of America's leading immigration attorneys.
Visit blog.realtyhive.com for more details on this episode.
About the Guest - Karen Weinstock:
Karen is the Managing Attorney of Weinstock Immigration Lawyers, one of the best immigration law firms in Atlanta, Georgia. With over two decades of experience, she has substantial expertise representing U.S. and international companies to secure global talent and ensure a successful transition for foreign employees and their families.
Karen has represented Fortune 500 and publicly traded companies in both the U.S. and abroad. She has helped many European, Asian, and Latin American enterprises and international investors achieve their American Dream.
Born and raised in Israel, Karen im
About the host - Hugh Gilliam:
Hugh Gilliam co-owned a national transportation company, created a land development business, and worked as a general contractor in residential and commercial construction for over two decades. Hugh also co-founded an international distribution company and successfully negotiated and contracted with 135 sales representatives in the United States, Canada, France, Brazil, Japan, and the Netherlands.
Today, Mr. Gilliam is affiliated with RealtyHive, LLC where he serves as Director of International Real Estate and President of Global Property Pros. His duties include involvement in commercial and residential transactions, plus promoting marketing systems and lead generation platforms.
For real estate professionals looking to take their business to the next level, check out Global Property Pros!
He is also co-founder of the luxury digital magazine, DOORWAYS INTERNATIONAL, powered by RealtyHive, which serves as a platform for Brokers and Buyers throughout 70 countries.
Hugh's Designations Include:
- Certified Luxury Home Marketing Specialist
- Certified Distressed Property Export
- Certified International Property Specialist
- Certified International Investment & Immigration Specialist
- Transnational Referral Certific
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to RealtyCast Global, where we bring insights
and advice from topprofessionals in the global
market.
Join us for a journey ofculture and real estate from
countries across the globe.
My guest today is KarenWeinstock.
Karen is the managing attorneyof Weinstock Immigration Lawyers
(00:22):
, one of the best immigrationlaw firms in Atlanta, georgia.
With over two decades ofexperience, she has substantial
expertise representing US andinternational companies to
secure global talent and ensurea successful transition for
foreign employees and theirfamilies.
Karen has represented Fortune500 and publicly traded
(00:46):
companies in both the US andabroad.
Indeed, she has helped manyEuropean, asian and Latin
American enterprises andinternational investors achieve
their dream.
As such, she is also asought-after speaker on
immigration law in conferencesand the media.
Born and raised in Israel, karenimmigrated to the United States
(01:08):
in 2000.
Her passion for immigration lawis a direct result of her
personal experience.
Karen's compassion for clientsand the commitment to excellence
distinguishes her as one of thebest immigration attorneys in
the nation.
Karen is trusted not only byher clients.
Atlanta's largest corporate lawfirms consult her in complex
(01:31):
immigration matters on a regularbasis.
Legal and business communitiesacross the country regard Karen
as a true leader in immigrationand a role model among women
entrepreneurs.
It's so good to have you today.
I appreciate you participatingin this podcast.
As we were discussing earlier,I think the last encounter we
(01:53):
had was at Georgia Tech back in2018 or 2019, when you came in
for a FIOPSE meeting and had aconversation about immigration,
so that's what we're going to bespeaking of today.
Once again, thank you, weappreciate you.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Oh, thank you for having me, Hugh.
I really appreciate you havingme on the show.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
We'd like to start first with just to look at the
landscape of immigration today,the current situation, and maybe
get an opinion from you aboutnot how to fix it necessarily,
but how to deal with it and howto make it better.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So we have a problem right now where our immigration
system is stuck.
Our current ImmigrationNationality Act was enacted in
1952, which is a long, long timeago, where everything looked
very different post World War IIand the immigration landscape
was different, the populationwas different and really nothing
(02:52):
materially has changed in thelaw since then.
There's been a lot of updatesand small changes and
regulations and all kinds ofpolicies and programs, but the
actual act, the actual law,substantially has not changed
since that time.
And the problem is thatobviously now we're into the
(03:17):
21st century and we have a hugedifference between the supply
and the demand in immigrants interms of labor, in terms of
family members, in terms ofeverything.
So we have more and moreimmigrant population that wants
(03:38):
to come to the United States,whether it be spouses or family
members of new citizens, whetherit be employees of
international companies thatwant to come here and work.
And the problem is we're stuckin the immigration system and
the immigration quota of early1950s and it creates a huge
(03:59):
bottleneck and a huge problemfor a lot of people including,
for example, us citizens.
It can take between a year andtwo years to bring a spouse here
.
It's crazy, it's just too longto wait and on the employment
side, it can take several monthsinto several years to bring an
(04:23):
employee over.
So there's really a discrepancybetween the immigration law and
the reality of today and thesecompanies.
If they want an employee, theywant them here today or tomorrow
or in a couple of weeks, not ina couple of months or a couple
of years.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You know you're exactly right.
So I mean and without gettingpolitical, you know I understand
the situation, I understand theproblem, but I'm wondering.
We know what the fix should be.
It needs to be simplified, Iwould think, and it needs to be
presented in such a way thatpeople can get from A to B
(05:06):
rapidly, like a job.
Like you're talking aboutsomeone coming in from another
country to take a job here inthe United States and you really
can't wait two to three monthsor a year for that person.
The company can't.
So there's got to be a speed-upprocess to get that done, I
would think.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Right, but, more importantly, there has to be
some type of change incategories and the quota system
has to basically match reality.
So, for example, we have theH1B visa for skilled
professionals, which is great,but the quota is still very low.
It's 65,000 for the entire USper year.
(05:47):
It's less than 0.5% of thepopulation of employees in the
United States that are close to170 million now.
So it's just not enough for allthe computer occupations, for
all of those professional ITengineering, even foreign
doctors, and they all have tocome in under that quota.
(06:09):
So now, actually recently, wehad 10 applicants about 10
applicants for each open quotaposition that the government can
issue, which is not so it'sreally nuts.
So that has to increase.
And also, more categories needto open for the other part of
(06:31):
the uneducated and more skilledlabor, like construction
occupations or hospitality.
We had a huge problem postCOVID with all the restaurants
and food service businesses andthey've been suffering a lot,
and we as the consumers alsohave been suffering either bad
(06:53):
service or they don't haveenough employees or things like
that.
And so what would be a bettersolution than bringing temporary
employees from overseas andpeople who are happy at work and
want to work hard, but there'sreally not a good category to
bring those people in.
So opening up more categoriesand allowing more people to come
(07:13):
in a legal way, in a legalmanner, especially for those
occupations that Americanseither don't want to do or they
won't do, or there are shortagesin those occupations.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I understand completely and there's a whole
list.
I'm looking at it right now.
But and you mentioned the H1Bwhat about the L1?
What is L1?
I'm not familiar with that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, so L1 is intercompany transfers, so those
international companies orcorporations that have
operations in various countries.
So let's say, for example, thatone of the biggest companies in
Atlanta is Coca-Cola and theyhave operations in the United
(07:59):
States and have operationselsewhere.
They have in Canada, in America, in Europe, basically any
country in the world probably,and if they want to bring in
employees that have worked inone of the subsidiaries abroad
for a year, they can bringmanagers, executives or
specialized knowledge employeesto come to the United States and
(08:24):
this is great, but it doesn'tsolve the problem of local
companies that don't have thatinternational presence.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I see, I see, well, I mean, that's all very
interesting, and today we'regoing to talk more about foreign
nationals coming into theUnited States and how we, as
real estate professionals, wouldserve them in finding
properties here.
So I guess the first questionis how can a foreign national
purchase properties in theUnited States?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So that's actually fairly easy.
If you are here illegally, evenas a tourist, if you can prove
that you have legal status, youcan purchase a property.
Now you may not have a socialsecurity number, you may not
qualify for a loan from atraditional bank, especially if
(09:21):
you have, for example, just avisitor visa, because you don't
qualify for a social securitynumber if you have that, only
people who are here on workvisas or have some type of
ability to work in the UnitedStates legally through the
immigration authorities can geta social security number.
But they can purchaseproperties.
(09:42):
And the majority of foreignnationals that can't get loans
because they don't have socialsor they don't have legal status
or they're just here as visitors.
They can purchase propertiespretty much for full cash.
Some banks would give you asmall loan, like 10, 20, 50% or
(10:06):
less than the property value,but most of the time they would
have to pay cash for theproperty because they have no
social security number or credithistory.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I guess on the next question you answered part of it
just then.
But what are the differencesbetween the visitor and people
who are actually here on visaswhen purchasing property?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So people who are here as visitors do not get
social security numbers, youhear, for a limited time,
usually up to three months, fora business visitor or if you're
here on ESTA, which is it's likea visitor visa but it's not
really a visa.
It's for nationals of countrieslike now, western Europe and
Canada.
(10:49):
They basically come here asvisitors without a visa.
They have to register throughand send the immigration
agencies documents, passports oftheir country, let's say, for
example, from the UK or Germanyor France, and then they can
come here without a visa for upto 90 days.
(11:10):
Again, they cannot work, theydon't get a social security
number, they just hear asvisitors, pure visitors, either
for business or for tourismpurpose, and so they cannot work
and usually they would buy aproperty cash.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So they could purchase a property here in the
US.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yes, that's correct.
They can purchase a property andthere's, for example, like a
lot of Canadians who are winterbirds, who don't like the winter
in Canada, so they would comehere for the winter months and
maybe purchase a property inFlorida or one of the Sunbelt
states and then they would go toCanada at the end of the time
(11:54):
and so that's allowed for sure.
But again, they would usuallyhave to purchase the property
for cash.
It's going to be very difficultfor them to get a loan without
a social security number and awork visa.
On the other hand, people whoare here on work visas they have
an ability to work, they wouldget a social security number,
(12:16):
they're here to stay and theyusually have income in the
United States because obviouslythey're working here on a work
visa.
So for those individuals itwould be easier to qualify for a
mortgage, either through FHA oranother bank or mortgage
program, depending on whatproperty they're buying, what's
their income etc.
(12:37):
Etc.
And those are legally here andit's easier to qualify for a
mortgage although not easy as aUS citizen or a permanent
resident, because their visas doexpire.
You know, maybe in a coupleyears three years, one year and
then the mortgage industry is alittle bit more stringent on
(13:00):
loaning funds for a mortgage ifthe visa is closer to the
expiration date, although someof the work visas can be
extended.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Okay, okay, what about someone?
Can someone get an investorvisa to buy investment property
in the United States?
Is that a thing, an investmentvisa?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So this is a very common question, both from
clients and from real estateprofessionals, because there's a
rumor or a legend or some sortthat is floating around in terms
of oh yeah, I'll pay $500,000or I'll put a million down for a
(13:47):
property can I get an investorvisa for it?
Because it's a lot of money.
And the legend is which is nottrue that yeah, that's possible
but in actuality it's notpossible Because in order to get
an investor visa, you have tohave an active business in which
you are investing.
So the sum of $500,000, amillion, these are substantial
(14:11):
sums of money, there's noquestion about that, but the
investor is investing it in apassive type of property, which
is real estate.
On the other hand, if you havean investment in an active
business, that could qualifysomebody for an investor visa,
(14:33):
but just buying real estate hereon its own is not going to
qualify you for an investor visa.
Now, if you buy an apartmentcomplex or multi-family and then
you're going to manage it andcollect a rent and think of that
, that possibly could be aninvestor visa qualifier.
(14:56):
But just buying a single-familyhome, a retirement home, a
second home, a vacation property, usually that would not qualify
somebody for an investor visa.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Do you think some of that comes from the fact that
there's other countries that areoffering like golden visas and
things like that into theircountry if you put a certain
amount of money in property andcan stay a certain amount of
months per year?
Maybe that's kind of all mixedinto the thinking today here in
the United States that there'ssomething similar.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Maybe, but I think it's kind of like a wishful
thinking, kind of rumor.
Obviously, for the majority ofpeople, they understand real
estate investment in terms ofokay, I'm going to pay a price,
I'm going to have a realproperty in my hands.
Although there are marketfluctuations in real estate
(15:55):
going up and down, for the longterm it's going to go up and
investors feel more secure inbuying a property because they
have something real versusbuying a business or operating
in a business or investing in abusiness.
A lot of people don't havethose skills to run an active
(16:17):
business or to know whether abusiness could be successful or
how to make a businesssuccessful.
That's really the bigdifference.
It's a lot of wishful thinking.
Okay, yes, if I buy thisproperty, then I'm going to get
an investor visa, and that's nottrue.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Okay so the main qualifier to have the investment
visa would be to, as you said,purchase maybe an apartment
complex and manage that.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
But even that sometimes is not going to be
sufficient.
So, for example, if you buy anapartment complex that has 10 or
20 apartments, that still mightbe an active business.
If you buy a whole community,let's say you have 100 rental
units, and then you have peopleworking for you, you have a
management team, you have amaintenance people, employees,
(17:10):
that might qualify.
But again you have to reallydistinguish between an active
business versus a passivebusiness.
So even if you buy a 10-unitcomplex, it may not be enough if
you're just collecting rent andthat's it.
This still might be consideredpassive.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Have you ever handled a situation like this for a
client from a foreign nationalcoming into the US looking
seeking out an investor visa?
Have you helped them find abusiness?
Or maybe they have a businessthey bring to you and present it
to see if it would qualify?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, many times, many times, for sure, and some
in real estate as well, butthose are more active real
estate investors.
So they actually go seek outinvestment properties, they
renovate them like multi-familyapartment units and things like
that, and they actually manageactively manage those properties
(18:06):
.
So I'm talking about 50 units,100 units, and that could
qualify them for an investorvisa.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So, as a real estate salesperson and you're meeting
your person from overseas inAtlanta for the first time, what
would be priority questions toask this person in order to
understand who you're dealingwith, where they're coming from
and what their goals are?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
So really the main question is what's their goal?
So whether their goal is tojust buy a property and live
here for part of the year,whether they just want to buy an
investment property, whetherthey want to actually move to
the United States and have awork visa.
(18:59):
So really, what is their endgoal?
That's the first question,because obviously the properties
that you're going to beinterested in are going to
differ between, yes, I want toadjust a vacation property where
I can spend my winters for sixmonths out of the year, or
(19:19):
whether I really want to investin real estate, have a work visa
and probably see some yield outof my funds.
It's just a different search.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I see.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
On what they want.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
But also let's go back just a minute to some of
the areas of immigration law,Training and educating company
management, HR on expatriateemployees.
Now, is that a reason thatthose people would be able to
receive a visa to come into theUnited States and be trained at
a facility here?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yes.
So for some companies it's veryimportant to transfer
international employees, whetherit's because they have
knowledge, specific knowledgethat they lack in the United
States and they can train the USpeople on, or whether it's a
specific managerial employee whothey want to promote to oversee
(20:23):
something in the United States.
So, depending on the need,there is a solution, most likely
of a visa category, to bringthat employee over to the United
States.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
When you were talking about people that have
exceptional abilities insciences and arts and things
like that.
Is that part of the quotasystem also?
I mean, you can only take maybefive people out of a group of
15 to see if they qualify.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So under the exceptional ability,
extraordinary ability, thenon-immigrant visa, the 01,
there's no quota under that visa, but very few people and a very
small percentage of peoplewould actually qualify for that
visa because you have to proveyou really have extraordinary
ability, way above and beyondanybody else in your field.
(21:22):
So whether you have inventionsin science or you are really
extraordinary in business, youhave major achievements, like
newspapers are featuring you.
It's a very high bar to pass,so most people won't qualify for
it, whereas the professionalsor the executives, managers
(21:43):
there's a lot a bigger openingfor that.
So and there's no quota.
Also, on the investor visas andthere's no quota on the
intra-company transfer.
So on the non-immigrant part oron the work visa part, there's
no quota.
There's no quota on green cardsbased on employment, and that's
another part that has to bechanged Because for some people
(22:07):
who are legally here, they canwait 10, 20 years to get a green
card based on employment.
If you're Chinese or Indian,you're going to sit in a queue
that's very, very long, verymany years.
And those are for people whoare legally here.
We want them here.
They're professionals, they'reworking in IT, engineering and
other lucrative occupations.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
So we're still stuck back in 1952?
.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yes on the quota system, absolutely, and the HMB
visa quota has not really beenincreased since early 1990.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
That's really sad.
If you could think about one ortwo experiences that you've had
, with successful experienceswith a foreign national coming
to you for anything in the wayof business related or just a
situation they're in where theyneed your help, can you give us
(23:10):
just a little scenario of whatit was and the success you had
in getting that person frompoint A to point B?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, so we actually had a real estate investor from
Canada who wanted to integrateto the United States because
they did the business planningand they've been to the United
States and they made a lot ofmoney in the Canada Real Estate
Room of like late 1990s, early2000s.
(23:40):
And then they're like, well, Ithink we kind of maxed out on
Canada and want to move to theStates and they actually hired a
different lawyer to prepare theInvestor Visa application and
they got denied and then came tous and so we looked at the
(24:00):
business plan, we looked at thedocuments, like, okay, we can
refile the case and I think wecan get you approved.
And it's just a lot moredifficult to get the case
approved after it's been denied.
It's always the case becausethen the Integration Officer has
that preconceived notion thatthe case should be denied a
second time.
(24:21):
But we prepared the case, weredid the business plan.
The big problem in that case wasthat their US company was going
to be more of a passive realestate management company versus
an active business.
So we really made the case foran active business and the Visa
(24:47):
was granted after we reappliedand Investor and Family was very
, very happy and now we'reactually working on a renewal
for that investor after theinitial five years have been
approved.
So it's a very good successstory.
And, surprisingly, even afterCOVID and during COVID, that
(25:15):
group owned by that real estateinvestor has been very, very
successful transformingproperties and he actually got a
couple of really really goodapartment complexes that were
going to go under because ofCOVID and completely revamped
them and now they're reallyreally nice communities.
So there are success stories.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
That's fantastic One thing that in the intro I
mentioned that you came fromIsrael in 2000, I believe.
Could you give us just a littlebit of an update on you, when
you came and where you are today?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Oh, wow.
So when I came I, it was a verychallenging time, to say the
least.
I didn't have a job, and then Icouldn't get a job because I
didn't have a visa to work.
I just came as a visitor, I setfor the New York bar, I passed
it and then I'm like, okay, whatshould I do now?
(26:16):
And I didn't really plananything or it wasn't really
thought out.
With the experience I had Ihave now, I would have done
everything differently.
But things like I couldn't getan apartment because I didn't
have credit and then I couldn'teven open a bank account, so I
had to carry large cash amountsin my pockets and I was living
(26:37):
in New York City in a time andconstantly looking behind my
shoulder like maybe I'm going toget mucked.
So we didn't have ATM cards.
We had ATM cards with no debitor credit cards back then, and I
couldn't even get a credit cardbecause I didn't have a social
security number, because Ididn't have a visa, and it was
(26:58):
all very, very challenging.
But after I had gotten my firstjob and everything kind of like
fell into place and I was verylucky in that I had a cousin of
mine who was brave enough toco-sign my lease.
That's the only reason why Iwas able to get an apartment,
(27:22):
and I know that a lot of peopleare not as lucky, but it was a
very, very good learningexperience, because that's what
kind of called me to move intoimmigration law and help other
people to achieve their Americandream, like I have.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
So it's a fantastic story.
I just wanted to hear it fromyou because we told a little bit
about it in the intro, but tohear it coming straight from you
means a lot to people out therethat are trying Never give up,
and so you came from that pointto wine stock immigration
lawyers today and are best knownin the city for what you do.
(28:06):
I know that you do nationalspeaking engagements and even
attorneys locally will ask youadvice, so that says a lot from
2000 to 2023.
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
We're going to have to go now, but it hasn't really
been enough time.
But at least we got tocapitalize a little bit about
who you are and when the podcastis out, I'm sure you're going
to be receiving telephone calls,because people need to know
specific information about whatto do and when they have
different situations they'redealing with on a daily basis.
(28:44):
So again, thank you, yourinformation will be up and I
hope to see you sooner than thenext five years.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Thanks for joining in on today's episode of
RealtyCast Global.
Make sure to subscribe to thepodcast to be notified when new
episodes air.
Welcome to RealtyCast Global, where we bring insights
and advice from topprofessionals in the global
market.
Join us for a journey ofculture and real estate from
countries across the globe.
My guest today is KarenWeinstock.
Karen is the managing attorneyof Weinstock Immigration Lawyers
(00:22):
, one of the best immigrationlaw firms in Atlanta, georgia.
With over two decades ofexperience, she has substantial
expertise representing US andinternational companies to
secure global talent and ensurea successful transition for
foreign employees and theirfamilies.
Karen has represented Fortune500 and publicly traded
(00:46):
companies in both the US andabroad.
Indeed, she has helped manyEuropean, asian and Latin
American enterprises andinternational investors achieve
their dream.
As such, she is also asought-after speaker on
immigration law in conferencesand the media.
Born and raised in Israel, karenimmigrated to the United States
(01:08):
in 2000.
Her passion for immigration lawis a direct result of her
personal experience.
Karen's compassion for clientsand the commitment to excellence
distinguishes her as one of thebest immigration attorneys in
the nation.
Karen is trusted not only byher clients.
Atlanta's largest corporate lawfirms consult her in complex
(01:31):
immigration matters on a regularbasis.
Legal and business communitiesacross the country regard Karen
as a true leader in immigrationand a role model among women
entrepreneurs.
It's so good to have you today.
I appreciate you participatingin this podcast.
As we were discussing earlier,I think the last encounter we
(01:53):
had was at Georgia Tech back in2018 or 2019, when you came in
for a FIOPSE meeting and had aconversation about immigration,
so that's what we're going to bespeaking of today.
Once again, thank you, weappreciate you.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Oh, thank you for having me, Hugh.
I really appreciate you havingme on the show.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
We'd like to start first with just to look at the
landscape of immigration today,the current situation, and maybe
get an opinion from you aboutnot how to fix it necessarily,
but how to deal with it and howto make it better.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
So we have a problem right now where our immigration
system is stuck.
Our current ImmigrationNationality Act was enacted in
1952, which is a long, long timeago, where everything looked
very different post World War IIand the immigration landscape
was different, the populationwas different and really nothing
(02:52):
materially has changed in thelaw since then.
There's been a lot of updatesand small changes and
regulations and all kinds ofpolicies and programs, but the
actual act, the actual law,substantially has not changed
since that time.
And the problem is thatobviously now we're into the
(03:17):
21st century and we have a hugedifference between the supply
and the demand in immigrants interms of labor, in terms of
family members, in terms ofeverything.
So we have more and moreimmigrant population that wants
(03:38):
to come to the United States,whether it be spouses or family
members of new citizens, whetherit be employees of
international companies thatwant to come here and work.
And the problem is we're stuckin the immigration system and
the immigration quota of early1950s and it creates a huge
(03:59):
bottleneck and a huge problemfor a lot of people including,
for example, us citizens.
It can take between a year andtwo years to bring a spouse here
.
It's crazy, it's just too longto wait and on the employment
side, it can take several monthsinto several years to bring an
(04:23):
employee over.
So there's really a discrepancybetween the immigration law and
the reality of today and thesecompanies.
If they want an employee, theywant them here today or tomorrow
or in a couple of weeks, not ina couple of months or a couple
of years.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
You know you're exactly right.
So I mean and without gettingpolitical, you know I understand
the situation, I understand theproblem, but I'm wondering.
We know what the fix should be.
It needs to be simplified, Iwould think, and it needs to be
presented in such a way thatpeople can get from A to B
(05:06):
rapidly, like a job.
Like you're talking aboutsomeone coming in from another
country to take a job here inthe United States and you really
can't wait two to three monthsor a year for that person.
The company can't.
So there's got to be a speed-upprocess to get that done, I
would think.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Right, but, more importantly, there has to be
some type of change incategories and the quota system
has to basically match reality.
So, for example, we have theH1B visa for skilled
professionals, which is great,but the quota is still very low.
It's 65,000 for the entire USper year.
(05:47):
It's less than 0.5% of thepopulation of employees in the
United States that are close to170 million now.
So it's just not enough for allthe computer occupations, for
all of those professional ITengineering, even foreign
doctors, and they all have tocome in under that quota.
(06:09):
So now, actually recently, wehad 10 applicants about 10
applicants for each open quotaposition that the government can
issue, which is not so it'sreally nuts.
So that has to increase.
And also, more categories needto open for the other part of
(06:31):
the uneducated and more skilledlabor, like construction
occupations or hospitality.
We had a huge problem postCOVID with all the restaurants
and food service businesses andthey've been suffering a lot,
and we as the consumers alsohave been suffering either bad
(06:53):
service or they don't haveenough employees or things like
that.
And so what would be a bettersolution than bringing temporary
employees from overseas andpeople who are happy at work and
want to work hard, but there'sreally not a good category to
bring those people in.
So opening up more categoriesand allowing more people to come
(07:13):
in a legal way, in a legalmanner, especially for those
occupations that Americanseither don't want to do or they
won't do, or there are shortagesin those occupations.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
I understand completely and there's a whole
list.
I'm looking at it right now.
But and you mentioned the H1Bwhat about the L1?
What is L1?
I'm not familiar with that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, so L1 is intercompany transfers, so those
international companies orcorporations that have
operations in various countries.
So let's say, for example, thatone of the biggest companies in
Atlanta is Coca-Cola and theyhave operations in the United
(07:59):
States and have operationselsewhere.
They have in Canada, in America, in Europe, basically any
country in the world probably,and if they want to bring in
employees that have worked inone of the subsidiaries abroad
for a year, they can bringmanagers, executives or
specialized knowledge employeesto come to the United States and
(08:24):
this is great, but it doesn'tsolve the problem of local
companies that don't have thatinternational presence.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
I see, I see, well, I mean, that's all very
interesting, and today we'regoing to talk more about foreign
nationals coming into theUnited States and how we, as
real estate professionals, wouldserve them in finding
properties here.
So I guess the first questionis how can a foreign national
purchase properties in theUnited States?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
So that's actually fairly easy.
If you are here illegally, evenas a tourist, if you can prove
that you have legal status, youcan purchase a property.
Now you may not have a socialsecurity number, you may not
qualify for a loan from atraditional bank, especially if
(09:21):
you have, for example, just avisitor visa, because you don't
qualify for a social securitynumber if you have that, only
people who are here on workvisas or have some type of
ability to work in the UnitedStates legally through the
immigration authorities can geta social security number.
But they can purchaseproperties.
(09:42):
And the majority of foreignnationals that can't get loans
because they don't have socialsor they don't have legal status
or they're just here as visitors.
They can purchase propertiespretty much for full cash.
Some banks would give you asmall loan, like 10, 20, 50% or
(10:06):
less than the property value,but most of the time they would
have to pay cash for theproperty because they have no
social security number or credithistory.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I guess on the next question you answered part of it
just then.
But what are the differencesbetween the visitor and people
who are actually here on visaswhen purchasing property?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So people who are here as visitors do not get
social security numbers, youhear, for a limited time,
usually up to three months, fora business visitor or if you're
here on ESTA, which is it's likea visitor visa but it's not
really a visa.
It's for nationals of countrieslike now, western Europe and
Canada.
(10:49):
They basically come here asvisitors without a visa.
They have to register throughand send the immigration
agencies documents, passports oftheir country, let's say, for
example, from the UK or Germanyor France, and then they can
come here without a visa for upto 90 days.
(11:10):
Again, they cannot work, theydon't get a social security
number, they just hear asvisitors, pure visitors, either
for business or for tourismpurpose, and so they cannot work
and usually they would buy aproperty cash.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So they could purchase a property here in the
US.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yes, that's correct.
They can purchase a property andthere's, for example, like a
lot of Canadians who are winterbirds, who don't like the winter
in Canada, so they would comehere for the winter months and
maybe purchase a property inFlorida or one of the Sunbelt
states and then they would go toCanada at the end of the time
(11:54):
and so that's allowed for sure.
But again, they would usuallyhave to purchase the property
for cash.
It's going to be very difficultfor them to get a loan without
a social security number and awork visa.
On the other hand, people whoare here on work visas they have
an ability to work, they wouldget a social security number,
(12:16):
they're here to stay and theyusually have income in the
United States because obviouslythey're working here on a work
visa.
So for those individuals itwould be easier to qualify for a
mortgage, either through FHA oranother bank or mortgage
program, depending on whatproperty they're buying, what's
their income etc.
(12:37):
Etc.
And those are legally here andit's easier to qualify for a
mortgage although not easy as aUS citizen or a permanent
resident, because their visas doexpire.
You know, maybe in a coupleyears three years, one year and
then the mortgage industry is alittle bit more stringent on
(13:00):
loaning funds for a mortgage ifthe visa is closer to the
expiration date, although someof the work visas can be
extended.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Okay, okay, what about someone?
Can someone get an investorvisa to buy investment property
in the United States?
Is that a thing, an investmentvisa?
Speaker 2 (13:25):
So this is a very common question, both from
clients and from real estateprofessionals, because there's a
rumor or a legend or some sortthat is floating around in terms
of oh yeah, I'll pay $500,000or I'll put a million down for a
(13:47):
property can I get an investorvisa for it?
Because it's a lot of money.
And the legend is which is nottrue that yeah, that's possible
but in actuality it's notpossible Because in order to get
an investor visa, you have tohave an active business in which
you are investing.
So the sum of $500,000, amillion, these are substantial
(14:11):
sums of money, there's noquestion about that, but the
investor is investing it in apassive type of property, which
is real estate.
On the other hand, if you havean investment in an active
business, that could qualifysomebody for an investor visa,
(14:33):
but just buying real estate hereon its own is not going to
qualify you for an investor visa.
Now, if you buy an apartmentcomplex or multi-family and then
you're going to manage it andcollect a rent and think of that
, that possibly could be aninvestor visa qualifier.
(14:56):
But just buying a single-familyhome, a retirement home, a
second home, a vacation property, usually that would not qualify
somebody for an investor visa.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Do you think some of that comes from the fact that
there's other countries that areoffering like golden visas and
things like that into theircountry if you put a certain
amount of money in property andcan stay a certain amount of
months per year?
Maybe that's kind of all mixedinto the thinking today here in
the United States that there'ssomething similar.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Maybe, but I think it's kind of like a wishful
thinking, kind of rumor.
Obviously, for the majority ofpeople, they understand real
estate investment in terms ofokay, I'm going to pay a price,
I'm going to have a realproperty in my hands.
Although there are marketfluctuations in real estate
(15:55):
going up and down, for the longterm it's going to go up and
investors feel more secure inbuying a property because they
have something real versusbuying a business or operating
in a business or investing in abusiness.
A lot of people don't havethose skills to run an active
(16:17):
business or to know whether abusiness could be successful or
how to make a businesssuccessful.
That's really the bigdifference.
It's a lot of wishful thinking.
Okay, yes, if I buy thisproperty, then I'm going to get
an investor visa, and that's nottrue.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Okay so the main qualifier to have the investment
visa would be to, as you said,purchase maybe an apartment
complex and manage that.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
But even that sometimes is not going to be
sufficient.
So, for example, if you buy anapartment complex that has 10 or
20 apartments, that still mightbe an active business.
If you buy a whole community,let's say you have 100 rental
units, and then you have peopleworking for you, you have a
management team, you have amaintenance people, employees,
(17:10):
that might qualify.
But again you have to reallydistinguish between an active
business versus a passivebusiness.
So even if you buy a 10-unitcomplex, it may not be enough if
you're just collecting rent andthat's it.
This still might be consideredpassive.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Have you ever handled a situation like this for a
client from a foreign nationalcoming into the US looking
seeking out an investor visa?
Have you helped them find abusiness?
Or maybe they have a businessthey bring to you and present it
to see if it would qualify?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, many times, many times, for sure, and some
in real estate as well, butthose are more active real
estate investors.
So they actually go seek outinvestment properties, they
renovate them like multi-familyapartment units and things like
that, and they actually manageactively manage those properties
(18:06):
.
So I'm talking about 50 units,100 units, and that could
qualify them for an investorvisa.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
So, as a real estate salesperson and you're meeting
your person from overseas inAtlanta for the first time, what
would be priority questions toask this person in order to
understand who you're dealingwith, where they're coming from
and what their goals are?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
So really the main question is what's their goal?
So whether their goal is tojust buy a property and live
here for part of the year,whether they just want to buy an
investment property, whetherthey want to actually move to
the United States and have awork visa.
(18:59):
So really, what is their endgoal?
That's the first question,because obviously the properties
that you're going to beinterested in are going to
differ between, yes, I want toadjust a vacation property where
I can spend my winters for sixmonths out of the year, or
(19:19):
whether I really want to investin real estate, have a work visa
and probably see some yield outof my funds.
It's just a different search.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
I see.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
On what they want.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
But also let's go back just a minute to some of
the areas of immigration law,Training and educating company
management, HR on expatriateemployees.
Now, is that a reason thatthose people would be able to
receive a visa to come into theUnited States and be trained at
a facility here?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yes.
So for some companies it's veryimportant to transfer
international employees, whetherit's because they have
knowledge, specific knowledgethat they lack in the United
States and they can train the USpeople on, or whether it's a
specific managerial employee whothey want to promote to oversee
(20:23):
something in the United States.
So, depending on the need,there is a solution, most likely
of a visa category, to bringthat employee over to the United
States.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
When you were talking about people that have
exceptional abilities insciences and arts and things
like that.
Is that part of the quotasystem also?
I mean, you can only take maybefive people out of a group of
15 to see if they qualify.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So under the exceptional ability,
extraordinary ability, thenon-immigrant visa, the 01,
there's no quota under that visa, but very few people and a very
small percentage of peoplewould actually qualify for that
visa because you have to proveyou really have extraordinary
ability, way above and beyondanybody else in your field.
(21:22):
So whether you have inventionsin science or you are really
extraordinary in business, youhave major achievements, like
newspapers are featuring you.
It's a very high bar to pass,so most people won't qualify for
it, whereas the professionalsor the executives, managers
(21:43):
there's a lot a bigger openingfor that.
So and there's no quota.
Also, on the investor visas andthere's no quota on the
intra-company transfer.
So on the non-immigrant part oron the work visa part, there's
no quota.
There's no quota on green cardsbased on employment, and that's
another part that has to bechanged Because for some people
(22:07):
who are legally here, they canwait 10, 20 years to get a green
card based on employment.
If you're Chinese or Indian,you're going to sit in a queue
that's very, very long, verymany years.
And those are for people whoare legally here.
We want them here.
They're professionals, they'reworking in IT, engineering and
other lucrative occupations.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
So we're still stuck back in 1952?
.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Yes on the quota system, absolutely, and the HMB
visa quota has not really beenincreased since early 1990.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
That's really sad.
If you could think about one ortwo experiences that you've had
, with successful experienceswith a foreign national coming
to you for anything in the wayof business related or just a
situation they're in where theyneed your help, can you give us
(23:10):
just a little scenario of whatit was and the success you had
in getting that person frompoint A to point B?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah, so we actually had a real estate investor from
Canada who wanted to integrateto the United States because
they did the business planningand they've been to the United
States and they made a lot ofmoney in the Canada Real Estate
Room of like late 1990s, early2000s.
(23:40):
And then they're like, well, Ithink we kind of maxed out on
Canada and want to move to theStates and they actually hired a
different lawyer to prepare theInvestor Visa application and
they got denied and then came tous and so we looked at the
(24:00):
business plan, we looked at thedocuments, like, okay, we can
refile the case and I think wecan get you approved.
And it's just a lot moredifficult to get the case
approved after it's been denied.
It's always the case becausethen the Integration Officer has
that preconceived notion thatthe case should be denied a
second time.
(24:21):
But we prepared the case, weredid the business plan.
The big problem in that case wasthat their US company was going
to be more of a passive realestate management company versus
an active business.
So we really made the case foran active business and the Visa
(24:47):
was granted after we reappliedand Investor and Family was very
, very happy and now we'reactually working on a renewal
for that investor after theinitial five years have been
approved.
So it's a very good successstory.
And, surprisingly, even afterCOVID and during COVID, that
(25:15):
group owned by that real estateinvestor has been very, very
successful transformingproperties and he actually got a
couple of really really goodapartment complexes that were
going to go under because ofCOVID and completely revamped
them and now they're reallyreally nice communities.
So there are success stories.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
That's fantastic One thing that in the intro I
mentioned that you came fromIsrael in 2000, I believe.
Could you give us just a littlebit of an update on you, when
you came and where you are today?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Oh, wow.
So when I came I, it was a verychallenging time, to say the
least.
I didn't have a job, and then Icouldn't get a job because I
didn't have a visa to work.
I just came as a visitor, I setfor the New York bar, I passed
it and then I'm like, okay, whatshould I do now?
(26:16):
And I didn't really plananything or it wasn't really
thought out.
With the experience I had Ihave now, I would have done
everything differently.
But things like I couldn't getan apartment because I didn't
have credit and then I couldn'teven open a bank account, so I
had to carry large cash amountsin my pockets and I was living
(26:37):
in New York City in a time andconstantly looking behind my
shoulder like maybe I'm going toget mucked.
So we didn't have ATM cards.
We had ATM cards with no debitor credit cards back then, and I
couldn't even get a credit cardbecause I didn't have a social
security number, because Ididn't have a visa, and it was
(26:58):
all very, very challenging.
But after I had gotten my firstjob and everything kind of like
fell into place and I was verylucky in that I had a cousin of
mine who was brave enough toco-sign my lease.
That's the only reason why Iwas able to get an apartment,
(27:22):
and I know that a lot of peopleare not as lucky, but it was a
very, very good learningexperience, because that's what
kind of called me to move intoimmigration law and help other
people to achieve their Americandream, like I have.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
So it's a fantastic story.
I just wanted to hear it fromyou because we told a little bit
about it in the intro, but tohear it coming straight from you
means a lot to people out therethat are trying Never give up,
and so you came from that pointto wine stock immigration
lawyers today and are best knownin the city for what you do.
(28:06):
I know that you do nationalspeaking engagements and even
attorneys locally will ask youadvice, so that says a lot from
2000 to 2023.
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
We're going to have to go now, but it hasn't really
been enough time.
But at least we got tocapitalize a little bit about
who you are and when the podcastis out, I'm sure you're going
to be receiving telephone calls,because people need to know
specific information about whatto do and when they have
different situations they'redealing with on a daily basis.
(28:44):
So again, thank you, yourinformation will be up and I
hope to see you sooner than thenext five years.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Thanks for joining in on today's episode of
RealtyCast Global.
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episodes air.
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