Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello and welcome to
Reasoning Through the Bible.
We do verse-by-verse Biblestudy through the Word of God.
My name's Glenn.
I'm here with Steve.
We are in Ezekiel, chapter 17.
We've been working our waythrough this prophet and God has
given him some very unusualthings to do.
He laid on his side for over ayear.
(00:40):
He cut his hair and weighed it.
He made a small clay model.
Now God has been giving Ezekielsome very harsh messages of
condemnation towards the nationof Israel.
One of the themes, as we'regoing to see in this next
chapter, is that God is going touse Babylon, evil, wicked
(01:01):
Babylon, to come in in judgmentover Jerusalem.
To illustrate this, Ezekiel isgoing to be telling a forestry
lesson.
We're going out into the forestand we're going to see birds
and trees.
So, Steve, can you read thefirst 10 verses of Ezekiel,
chapter 17?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Now the word of the
Lord came to me saying Son of
man, propound a riddle and speaka parable to the house of
Israel, saying Thus says theLord God, a great eagle with
great wings, long pinions and afull plumage of many colors came
to Lebanon and took away thetop of the cedar, he plucked off
(01:41):
the topmost of its young twigsand brought it to a land of
merchants.
He set it in a city of traders.
He also took some of the seedof the land and planted it in
fertile soil.
He placed it beside abundantwaters.
He set it like a willow.
Then it sprouted and became alow spreading vine, with its
(02:03):
branches turned toward him butits roots remained under it.
So it became a vine and yieldedshoots and set out branches.
But there was another greateagle with great wings and much
plumage.
And behold, this vine bent itsroots towards him and set out
its branches toward him from thebeds where it was planted.
(02:24):
That he might water it.
It was planted in good soil,beside abundant waters.
That it might yield branchesand bear fruit and become a
splendid wine Say.
Thus says the Lord God, will itthrive?
Will he not pull up its rootsand cut off its fruit so that it
withers, so that all itssprouting leaves wither, and
(02:46):
neither by great strength nor bymany people can it be raised
from its roots again.
Behold though it is planted.
Will it thrive?
Will it not completely witheras soon as the east wind strikes
?
It?
Wither on the beds where itgrew.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
So we have this
parable of these two eagles and
one of them goes and plucks offthe top part of a tall cedar
tree and takes it to anotherland and plants it and it
becomes a low vine.
Now to interpret this, one ofthe things we have to remember
is that any time we see ananimal, especially the Old
(03:22):
Testament, we have to askwhether this was a clean or
unclean animal according to thelaws in Leviticus.
And if we go through the listof clean and unclean animals, we
find that an eagle is anunclean animal.
Therefore, the eagle and anyother unclean animal in any
(03:42):
other parable is never a goodthing.
It's never a good animal.
It's never right with God.
So the eagles were uncleananimals.
These are out of fellowshipwith God.
It tells us in this passagethat it takes the topmost part
of a cedar tree.
Well, a cedar tree was valuablefor the wood and they were very
(04:05):
tall and stately and strong,and he takes the best part of
that, the top shoot, takes it toanother land and it immediately
becomes a low vine that turnstowards the eagle.
Steve, what can we interpretthat to?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
be.
Well, I think what this isdescribing is.
It's talking about whenNebuchadnezzar came into the
land and took it under itscontrol and through that, he
took the king of Jerusalem, orJudah at the time, and took him
and deposed him, and thathappened to be King Jehoiakim.
(04:42):
That's what it's talking aboutthere taking this top off.
Then, in this place, he endedup putting his brother in there,
renaming him to Zedekiah, andthis is the king that we see
whenever the final siege ofJerusalem in 586 BC is
undertaken and the temple'sdestroyed, the city's completely
(05:05):
destroyed, but Zedekiah hasbeen put in place by
Nebuchadnezzar and he, at thetime that he's done that.
He has pledged allegiance toNebuchadnezzar.
We're going to see that change,though in a little bit.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
So again, the eagle,
the unclean animal in the
parable, takes the top part of acedar tree.
Cedars were very tall, verystrong, very stately trees.
He takes that and it plants itin another land.
So the king of Israel was takento another land and it grows,
(05:39):
but it becomes a low grapevine.
Grapevines didn't have enoughstrength to hold themselves up
off the ground.
People that grow grapes have totake the vines and hang them on
a trellis to keep the grapes upoff the ground.
Grapevine doesn't have enoughstrength to hold itself up.
Cedar trees are very strong,grapevines are very weak.
(06:02):
Not only is it a weak vine thatcan't hold itself up, but it
turns towards the unclean eagle.
Therefore the parable is quiteclear.
It's taking the best part ofIsrael.
The king, the best part, takesit to another land, plants it
and there it's no longer astately strong cedar tree.
(06:24):
It's a lowly, weak vine thatturns towards the unclean eagle
and that symbolizes wickedBabylon taking the king and
taking them to a foreign land.
Then there's a second eagle.
The second eagle in verses 7through 9 pulls up the vine and
(06:44):
it dies.
Now this second eagle is Egypt.
King Zedekiah turned to Egyptfor help in defending against
Babylon, but Egypt did not allowIsrael to thrive.
Steve, we have a great lessonhere, simply because God is
predicting these things veryspecifically, very graphically.
(07:04):
Although they haven't happenedyet, they were literally
fulfilled.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That's correct, Just
like earlier in the book,
whenever he depicted a wall andfor Ezekiel to crawl through the
hole in the wall and as hecrawled through it that he put a
blindfold on.
As we talked about at that time, that all was a prediction of
Zedekiah how he escaped, or atleast tried to escape, from
(07:29):
Jerusalem.
And he didn't do it.
He was captured and thenNebuchadnezzar put his eyes out.
So, just like then, Ezekiel isgiven a picture of what's going
to happen.
Now he's given another picture,albeit a little bit further out
, not specifics, as he was withthe wall and all of that.
(07:49):
He's given kind of an overviewof the political situation.
But this is what's going tohappen Zedekiah is going to turn
against Nebuchadnezzar.
That, as I mentioned before, iswhat's going to force
Nebuchadnezzar to actually thensay, okay, I'm done with this,
I'm going to take the temple andthe city out.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So again, for our
listeners, don't miss the
overall flow of the story ofIsrael here.
God had set them up initiallywith a very clear message of the
law and the sacrifices.
He sent prophets like Moses andall these kings like David that
were setting the nation on aright path.
The nation responded byrepeated disobedience and
(08:32):
rejection of the one true God.
Now God is passing judgment onthem, and the judgment will come
by letting a foreign nation, avery wicked one, come in and
destroy the nation.
That's what he's allowing themto do.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
And another thing is,
Glenn, is that God had
designated Babylon to be the onethat was going to discipline
Israel or Judah, and here wehave Zedekiah making this
alliance with Pharaoh to goagainst Babylon.
It's, in essence, essence witheverything that Jeremiah is
telling the nation of Judah andJerusalem and Zedekiah Ezekiel
telling them that our exile isthere in Babylon.
(09:14):
Then, rather than succumbing tothat the discipline that the
Lord has through Babylon we haveZedekiah trying to go his own
way.
So we have that picture as well.
God had selected Babylon to bethe disciplinarian and here
Zedekiah is trying to keep thatfrom happening.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
The parable of the
eagle, and really the two eagles
and the cedar and the vines, aswe said, were the kings of
Israel and Babylon and Egypt.
We don't have to guess thatthat's a correct interpretation,
simply because the next part ofthe chapter gives us the
interpretation.
I'll go ahead and read it,starting in verse 11.
(09:54):
Moreover, the word of the Lordcame to me saying Say now to the
rebellious house Do you notknow what these things mean?
Say Behold, the king of Babyloncame to Jerusalem, took its
king and princes and broughtthem to him in Babylon.
He took one of the royal familyand made a covenant with him,
(10:16):
putting him under oath.
He also took away the mighty ofthe land that the kingdom might
be in subjection, not exaltingitself, but keeping his covenant
that it might continue.
But he rebelled against him bysending his envoys to Egypt that
they might give him horses andmany troops.
Will he succeed?
(10:36):
Will he who does such thingsescape?
Can he indeed break thecovenant and escape?
As I live, declares the Lord God, surely in the country of the
king who put him on the throne,whose oath he despised and whose
covenant he broke in Babylon heshall die, pharaoh with his
(10:57):
mighty army and great company,will not help him in the war
when they cast up ramps andbuild siege walls to cut off
many lives.
Now, he despised the oath bybreaking the covenant.
And behold, he pledged hisallegiance Yet did all these
things.
He shall not escape.
Therefore, says the Lord, god asI live, surely my oath, which
(11:19):
he despised, and my covenant,which he broke, I will inflict
on his head.
I will spread my net over himand he will be caught in my
snare.
Then I will bring him toBabylon and enter into judgment
with him there regarding theunfaithful act which he has
committed against me.
All the choice men and all thetroops will fall by the sword
(11:41):
and the survivors will bescattered to every wind.
And you will know that I, theLord, have spoken.
So again, god says he's sendingwicked Babylon into judge
Israel.
And Steve, that's quite graphicand it's quite severe.
How do you think that wouldfall on the ears of the people
of Israel that Ezekiel wasspeaking to?
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Well, it's not
pleasant.
Again, the people that he'stalking to, they're the ones
that are in exile already and,as we've mentioned before, they
had had other prophets goingaround telling them that, oh,
this is just going to be atemporary thing, we're going to
be able to go back to Jerusalemand to our land, and God has
told them over and over again,through Ezekiel and all of the
(12:26):
stories that he's depicting tothem, that no, they're going to
be there, and they're going tobe there for a period of 70
years, as was noted by Jeremiah.
It's probably a little bitdepressing.
They're being told over andover again you need to go ahead
and settle down here in the land, because you're going to be
here a while and Jerusalem isfinally going to be destroyed,
(12:48):
and not only Jerusalem, but thetemple.
Now, remember that was theircenter of their worship.
So they're being told thattheir center of their worship is
going to be torn down, thetemple itself.
So you know it can't bepleasing to them.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
With this story again
.
The parable was of these twoeagles that took the topmost
part of a stately cedar tree andit turned into a low vine.
And he gives the interpretationin verse 21,.
All the choice men and all histroops will fall by the sword.
There's going to be mass deathof the Jewish people and the
(13:25):
survivors will be scattered tothe wind.
The nation will no longer existin the land.
A very graphic, very severemessage.
Yet our God, right in the midstof a very graphic, very severe
message, gives a prediction ofhope.
Steve, can you read from verses22 to 24?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Thus says the Lord
God, and bear fruit and become a
stately cedar and birds ofevery kind will nest under it.
They will nest in the shade ofits branches.
All the trees of the field willknow that I am the Lord.
I will bring down the high tree, exalt the low tree, bring up
the green tree and make the drytree flourish.
(14:25):
I am the Lord, I have spokenand I will perform it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
We said we were going
to have a forestry lesson.
So God's telling him what kindof trees he's going to grow,
because he changes now the toneof what we just read.
Remember, earlier in thechapter these eagles come and
take off the topmost part of acedar tree.
Well, in verse 22, what we justread, god says I will also take
a sprig from the lofty top ofthe cedar.
(14:53):
Now, steve, what does he sayhe's going to do this?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
grow into a stately
cedar tree where all of the
other birds and others are goingto flock to it and have safety
(15:16):
through it.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
The contrast is quite
dramatic.
Wicked, unclean eagles take thebest part of Israel to a
foreign land.
It turns into a lowly vine thatcan't even hold itself up.
But God's ultimately going tochange things.
He, he says now I will noticethere's no birds involved here
(15:38):
at all.
God says I will take the toppart of a cedar tree.
He's going to take a remnantand plant it, and it's going to
grow into a very stately tree.
Nevertheless, what'sinteresting?
He's going to make a cedar treethat bears fruit.
Now, normally cedar trees don'tbear fruit, but this one will.
God's going to make this onebear fruit.
(16:00):
He's going to make it bearfruit, and Jerusalem is really
what he's talking about here inthe theme of the book.
Jerusalem did not normally bearfruit, just like the cedar tree
by itself didn't normally bearfruit.
But God says he's going to makeJerusalem bear fruit.
He's going to take a sprig or ashoot or a twig from the top of
(16:23):
a tree and he's going tocontinue.
That line, steve, I take it tobe.
This is the descendants ofDavid.
The sprigs were the king.
The stately line.
The that line, steve, I take itto be.
This is the descendants ofDavid.
The Sprigs were the king, thestately line, the royal line.
He's going to take that andthere will be a descendant of
David that will grow and make akingdom that birds will nest in.
(16:43):
Where over in the New Testamentdo we see and talk about a
kingdom that's going to grow upand have birds in it?
What was that kingdom over inthe Gospels?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Well, we see that
talk about through Jesus when he
talks about the parable of themustard seed and some of the
other parables, and it's talkingabout the kingdom of Christ,
the kingdom of Jesus, therestored kingdom of Israel.
That's the kingdom that isdepicted there.
We've talked about that manytimes when we went through
(17:16):
Matthew and Mark as well, andwe've also seen it in some of
the other prophets, or wheneverthe prophets were dealing with
Zerubbabel, they gave him anencouragement.
He was there rebuilding thetemple, but they gave him
encouragement that God was goingto restore the kingly line of
David.
(17:36):
Zerubbabel wasn't the king, buthe was in the line of the king
David.
But, glenn, we actually don'tsee the line of David show back
up until Jesus is born.
Jesus is born and we have thelineage that is given there that
(17:57):
he's in the line of David andthat he is going to be the king
of the kingdom.
Now, the kingdom restoration ofIsrael is on pause right now,
but it is going to beestablished one day and we're
going to see that glorious reignof Jesus Christ.
He's going to rule all thenations with an iron rod.
We saw that depicted inZechariah.
We're going to see it depictedhere in Ezekiel, other prophets
(18:20):
talk about this establishment ofthe kingdom of Israel, the land
restored to them.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Jesus, who we now
know is the Messiah, ruling from
Jerusalem and ruling all theother nations there In 2 Samuel
7, god promised David that hewould have a descendant that
would be on the throne of Israelforever.
And here we are at the time ofEzekiel.
Many centuries later, at theend of the time of the kings,
(18:52):
they had disobeyed so much thatthe message is in Ezekiel 17,
I'm going to send these eaglesBabylon and Egypt and they're
going to come and take away thebest, the topmost branches and
take them away, and theremainder are going to be
scattered and put to the sword.
So there's going to be a masswrath poured out on the people
(19:14):
of Israel and taken to anothercountry.
But in these last verses in thechapter, god says I, I will
come and also take a branch andI'm going to plant it and it's
going to grow and be a statelytree and bear fruit.
God says I'm going to take partof Israel and maintain it.
That will be the line that KingDavid comes from Over.
(19:38):
In Revelation 22, 16, jesus saidabout himself I am the root and
descendant of David.
He was both the root and thebranch, the ancestor and the
descendant.
You can only do that whenyou're both eternal and a man.
Only Jesus can fulfill that.
The fulfillment is in the LordJesus Christ.
(20:00):
He said in Matthew 13, 32, inthe parable of the mustard seed,
that the smallest seed willthen grow and the kingdom will
have birds in it.
Well, again, we always have tolook at the animals in the
parables and say are these cleanor unclean?
Well, birds to an orchardistwere always evil because they
(20:23):
would come and eat the fruit.
We talked about this when wewent through Matthew, but when
the kingdom has birds in it,it's showing that there's going
to be unclean things in thechurch.
There's going to be somenonbelievers in the kingdom.
There's going to be a kingdomon earth and a church that is
(20:43):
made up of people that have someunsaved people benefiting from
it.
And that's still the way it istoday.
People that are unsaved benefitfrom the good influence of the
church, but I think it wouldalso mean that we're going to
have some unsaved people on theearth in the millennial kingdom.
Would you not agree, Steve?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
We do, because
there's going to be people that
are going to come out of thetribulation, going into the
millennial kingdom.
We have that judgment of thesheep and the goats that was
spoken about in Matthew.
Again, we went through all ofthat in detail when we went
through Matthew and that's goingto be a judgment based upon how
(21:23):
they have treated Israel.
These are people that are goingto go into the kingdom based on
that.
From them they're also going tohave offspring in the
millennial kingdom.
All of those people are goingto have to make a decision on
whether or not to follow Jesus,just like we have had to make a
decision, and others as well.
(21:43):
We see that we and ourglorified bodies will be ruling
with Jesus as well.
But there are going to bepeople that come out of the
tribulation, going into themillennial time frame, that will
live at that time.
Isaiah 65, 20 says at that time,the person that dies at the age
(22:05):
of 100 will be talked about asfar as why did they die at such
a young age?
Our length of days are going tobe restored.
The earth is going to berestored somewhat.
Creation is going to berestored.
The nations are going to berestored during that time period
, but there's still going to bepeople that are going to have a
choice on whether to followJesus or not.
(22:27):
That's manifested itself at thevery end of the millennial
kingdom, whenever Satan isreleased just for a little while
and then we see a final battlethat takes place there at the
end of the millennial kingdom.
Then we have that great whitethrone judgment there of all of
(22:47):
the lost.
That's going to happen.
Then we go into a new heavensand a new earth and that'll be a
glorious time.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Here in Ezekiel 17,
23,.
God says he's going to takethis branch and plant it and
it's going to grow up and be astately tree that the birds will
be able to nest under it.
Jesus over in the Gospelspicked up that theme when he
talked about the kingdom havingbirds that would nest in its
(23:17):
shade.
And the Jewish leaders wouldhave immediately realized that
he was adapting this passagefrom back here in Ezekiel and
therefore Jesus was very clearlycommunicating to the Jewish
people and the Jewish leadersthat he was indeed the
fulfillment of this, that he'sbringing in this kingdom, this
(23:38):
kingdom that God was going toplant not man, but God was going
to plant and it would grow upand bear fruit and that even
non-believers would benefit fromthis kingdom.
Also notice here in thispassage he says, at the end of
verse 22 and the beginning ofverse 23,.
He repeats it high and loftymountain, singular mountain, and
(24:01):
the high and lofty mountain,singular, is in Jerusalem.
So he's going to plant thisbranch in the mountain of
Jerusalem, which is the TempleMount.
So very clear language herethat's communicating to the
Jewish people that this new line, this new branch, is going to
(24:22):
grow up and be a stately treeand it's going to rule from the
Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
This could only be fulfilled inJesus.
Then, in verse 24, all thetrees of the field will know
that I am the Lord.
Well, in the parable, trees arenations.
So all the trees are all thenations.
(24:43):
Steve, if there's going to be akingdom in Jerusalem that grows
up and all the trees know thatGod is the fulfillment of this,
that realize that God is God,have we seen a time in history
where all the nations see thatGod is ruling from Jerusalem?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
No, we haven't, and
that's still something that's
going to happen in the future.
In fact, in the time frame thatwe're making this recording,
all the nations are against thenation of Israel itself and they
despise it and they makeresolutions against it for all
of the things that they're doing.
(25:23):
So no, we haven't seen that.
Glenn, you also mentioned thatGod himself says I'm going to do
this.
I'm going to do this.
Daniel is a contemporary ofEzekiel.
He's dealing with Nebuchadnezzarthere and in chapter 2 of
Daniel, nebuchadnezzar has thisdream of a statue and at the
very last part of that statuethere is a stone that comes that
(25:47):
is uncut by human hands is howit's described, and it rolls
down and it hits the feet of thestatue and destroys the statue.
The statue is a depiction of allthe nations, the four major
empires of the time.
In that, daniel telling thevision to Nebuchadnezzar that he
(26:08):
has been given theinterpretation from God that
Nebuchadnezzar, the head of gold, is Babylon itself, it's also
God being consistent.
In that case, he's lettingNebuchadnezzar and the other
Gentile nations know that atsome point there's going to be a
stone uncut by human hands.
(26:29):
In other words, he's going toestablish it himself and that's
going to crush all the othernations.
So we see God being consistentthrough his prophets, in
different ways and withdifferent depictions, but he is
consistent as far as what'sgoing to happen in the future.
There's going to be thiskingdom that's going to be
established by God, not by man.
(26:50):
It's going to happen from theMessiah.
We know the Messiah is Jesus.
That's still yet to come.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
So to summarize what
this is saying, to draw an
application here, it was quiteclear from the parable of the
two eagles and God's divineinterpretation of it.
He said specifically Babylonand Egypt and he's going to be
taking away the best of Israel.
When he says in verses 22 to 24, I will take a branch and put
(27:20):
it on the high mountain ofIsrael and it will grow and I
will bless it, he's very clearlysaying I'm going to take a
remnant of Israel and I'm goingto put it on a specific spot,
the mountain, the Temple Mountin Jerusalem, and it's going to
grow and it's going to bestately and I'm going to cause
(27:40):
it to bear fruit.
He says in verse 24, all thetrees of the field, all the
other nations are going torecognize that he is God.
And if we take that, draw someconclusions from that.
These verses cannot befulfilled in a spiritual sense
in the church simply because allthe trees of the field do not
(28:02):
recognize the church as being ofGod.
All the nations on earth do notrecognize who God is.
The church is also notestablished on the high mountain
in Jerusalem.
It was not fulfilled at orbefore the time of Christ
because Jesus condemned Israelfor not bearing fruit.
(28:23):
He came to the Jewish leaders,who were corrupt.
They were not bearing fruit andall the nations weren't
recognizing that God is.
There was not a time in between, when people returned from the
Babylonian captivity up toJesus' time, that there wasn't
either Greece or Rome I meanother than very brief periods of
(28:43):
time where they were in battlesbut there was not an extended
kingdom where all the othernations realized who the true
God was.
Therefore, this will befulfilled it is yet to be
fulfilled in the future, whenJesus, the root and branch of
David, returns to the highmountain in Jerusalem, sets up
(29:06):
his millennial kingdom, and atthat point we will see all the
blessings.
The clear meaning of thelanguage in many of these
passages is that of Israel, notthe church.
There's really no other way tointerpret this, steve, without
skipping over parts.
We always kind of point thatout, but if we just deal with
what the text says, then we'regoing to come up with a very
(29:29):
clear, very plain explanation ofwhat God is telling us.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Zedekiah is the last
king over the southern kingdom
of Judah and really specificallyJerusalem.
That's the last king.
After that, when they come backfrom the exile they're under
the Persian occupation.
From that it goes to Greece andthen to Rome.
(29:54):
Then in the first centurythey're dispersed out of it in
70 AD and they really don't comeback until the mid-20th century
.
So from this time, zedekiah isreally the last king of a really
small part of the overallnation that had been promised to
them.
So you're exactly right, glenn,and I concur with it this
(30:18):
kingdom has not yet happened.
It's still something that'sgoing to happen in the future
and we can't take the church outof that and say that's the
kingdom that's being talkedabout here in these Old
Testament prophets hear in theseOld Testament prophets.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
If we just read these
passages back here, these
much-neglected passages in theOld Testament, we get such rich
teaching out of it.
Especially there, at the lastverse of the chapter, where God
says I'm the one that controlsthe trees.
I dry up the green tree andmake the dry tree flourish.
I'm the one in control of allthe nations, and all we can say
(30:55):
is amen.
And amen.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
He said I have spoken
it and I'll perform it.
Thank you so much for watchingand listening.
We hope that you'll be backwith us next time as we continue
to reason through the book ofEzekiel.
As always, may God bless you.