August 25, 2025 • 31 mins
Are children guilty for the sins of their parents? This age-old question has challenged believers for centuries, and Ezekiel 18 provides a fascinating window into God's perspective on personal responsibility, generational consequences, and divine justice.
The exiled Israelites had adopted a fatalistic proverb: "The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge." They were essentially claiming their suffering in Babylon resulted from their ancestors' sins rather than their own disobedience. God directly confronts this excuse, systematically dismantling it through a series of powerful examples involving three generations.
What makes this passage particularly intriguing is how it seems to contradict other biblical teachings about generational consequences and original sin. However, when we understand the proper context—that Ezekiel is specifically addressing Israel's physical presence in the Promised Land rather than eternal salvation—the apparent contradiction dissolves. The life and death mentioned throughout the chapter refer to prosperity in the land, not spiritual salvation.
God's message through Ezekiel reveals His consistent character—He judges each person according to their own actions while maintaining His covenant promises. The chapter builds to a beautiful crescendo with God's heartfelt appeal: "I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies...therefore, repent and live." This invitation culminates in the promise of "a new heart and a new spirit," foreshadowing the new covenant that would later be fulfilled through Christ.
Through our verse-by-verse analysis, we explore how this theological question impacts our understanding of divine justice, personal accountability, and God's redemptive plan. Whether you're wrestling with questions about generational patterns, divine fairness, or the path to restoration, this episode offers biblical clarity on one of scripture's most profound teachings about God's character and our relationship with Him.
Thank you for listening!! Please give us a five-star rating to help your podcast provider's algorithm spread RTTB among their listeners.
You can find free study and leader resources at the following link - Resource Page - Reasoning Through the Bible
Please prayerfully consider supporting RTTB to help us to continue providing content and free resources. You can do that at this link - Support RTTB - Reasoning Through the Bible
May God Bless you!! - Glenn and Steve
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Welcome to Reasoning Through the Bible.
We do verse-by-verse Biblestudy through the Word of God.
As we go along, we spend quitea bit of time explaining the
text and then occasionally, wehave theological questions that
we slow down and talk about.
Well, today there's going to beone of those.
If you have your Bible, turn toEzekiel, chapter 18.
(00:40):
We're going to start there, ofcourse, if you've been with us
as we've been reading along.
We've seen that God appeared tothe prophet Ezekiel, and he is
in Babylon with some of thecaptives that have been removed
from Israel, but there's stillsome of the Jewish people that
are back in the land.
(01:01):
Many, if not most, of Ezekiel'smessages had to do with the
disobedience of the Jewishpeople that were in Israel and
why God was sending judgment.
There's been passage afterpassage where God was quite
clear about how Israel had beenworshiping idols.
Mosaic law prevented that theywere doing child sacrifice and
(01:25):
that was prevented in the Mosaiclaw.
They had idol worship, sexworship and gross immorality
that they had been practicingeven after God had sent many
prophets.
Well, that is the context ofthe book of Ezekiel, which
brings us to chapter 18.
(01:45):
In chapter 18, the first thingwe're introduced to is the word
of the Lord came to me in verse1, and he mentions this proverb
in verse 2.
What do you mean by repeatingthis proverb concerning the land
of Israel?
He quotes the proverb thefathers have eaten sour grapes
(02:06):
and the children's teeth are seton edge.
What he's talking about thereis do the sins of the father
affect the son?
And this same idea has beenbrought up throughout time of
whether people are punished fortheir ancestors' sin.
The same idea was in theGospels Over in John, chapter 9,
(02:28):
verse 2, the disciples hadbasically the same question.
They walked up and saw a blindman and they turned to Jesus and
said who sinned this man or hisparents?
The idea that children would bepunished for an ancestral sin is
(02:49):
a question that has appeared topeople throughout time, which
brings us to really the bigtheological question that God is
going to answer in Ezekiel 18,of whether children are guilty
of the sins of the fathers.
And the question really fallslike this and this is what God
(03:09):
is answering in this chapterwhen children are born, are they
born innocent or good?
And they remain innocent orgood until they commit a sin, a
conscious, known sin, volitionalsin and at that point they
become a sinner.
Or are people born sinners andinherit guilt from Adam and
(03:34):
their parents?
That's basically thetheological question.
And the reason it's atheological question is because
the natural man would say look,it would seem like unfair for us
to inherit guilt all the wayback to Adam.
So therefore they would hold to.
And there are some people thatare called Pelagian and
(03:55):
Pelagianism would hold thatpeople are born still today,
innocent or good, that people donot inherit sin or iniquity or
guilt from their parents, thatpeople are born morally neutral
at least, or possibly morallygood, and that they are not
(04:15):
guilty of sin until they commita volitional sin.
And people that hold thatposition turn to Ezekiel 18,
verse 20, says this the personwhose sins will die this is God
speaking the person whose sinswill die, the son, will not bear
the punishment for the father'siniquity, nor will the father
(04:36):
bear the punishment for theson's iniquity.
The righteousness of therighteous will be upon himself
and the wickedness of the wickedwill be upon himself.
So that passage is related tothis question.
There's been some largetheological controversies over
the centuries simply becausethere's other passages that
(04:59):
would bring this to be not sucha clear answer.
For example, there's at leastfour places in the Bible that
say the iniquity of the fathersare going to be visited on the
sons to the third and fourthgeneration.
It mentions that in Exodus 25,exodus 34-7, numbers 14-18, and
(05:23):
Deuteronomy 5.9, the sins of thefathers we visited on the sons
to the third and fourthgenerations.
It also brings in this conceptover in the New Testament.
In the New Testament it becomesan issue with salvation.
1 Corinthians 15.22 says quotein Adam all die.
In Romans, chapter 5, makes avery clear connection between
(05:46):
the idea that all people diedwhen Adam sinned and all people
can have life through Christ.
Romans 5 is the primary passagefor explaining our salvation.
There are these people, as Isaid, that are called Pelagians,
that deny the idea of originalsin, that they would deny that
(06:07):
in Adam all die and say thatpeople are not sinners until
they commit a known volitionalsin.
The reasons why Pelagianism isdenied and let me add that this
question came up in the earlyyears of the church and
Pelagianism was declared a getsimputed to all people.
(06:27):
That Jesus' death can be givento all people and counts all
(06:52):
people that's called imputed,that his death can count for all
people.
If we accept that idea that hisrighteousness is credited to us
and his payment for sin iscredited to all people, then we
have to accept the idea thatAdam's sin can be imputed to all
people.
We cannot deny the idea ofimputation and then accept the
(07:16):
imputation of Jesus'righteousness, and the New
Testament brings this out, quote.
So then, as though onetransgression there resulted
condemnation to all men, even so, through one act of
righteousness there resulted injustification of life to all men
, unquote, that's Romans 5.18.
And in 1 Corinthians 15.22, wemust accept, quote in Adam all
(07:41):
die If we want to accept thesecond half of the same sentence
even so, in Christ all shall bemade alive.
So if we want to accept that inChrist all shall be made alive,
we have to accept in Adam, alldie.
That brings us to this questionis how do we reconcile this
(08:03):
problem?
Because we have these placesthat clearly teach us that in
Adam, all die, but yet we havehere Ezekiel 18.20, the person
whose sins will die.
And if we read the rest of thechapter, he's making a very,
very clear statement that theguilt of the person is on his
(08:25):
own head and he does not inheritguilt from his father and the
sons are not guilty of thefather's sin.
Steve, that brings us to thequestion and how do we reconcile
it?
On one hand, we have theseverses that make a very clear
connection between Adam's sinand our guilt, and then Christ's
(08:46):
righteousness and ourrighteousness, very clearly
connected in the New Testament.
But yet here in Ezekiel 18, wehave also a very clear passage
that says the person whose sinswill die and it's not passed on
from generation to generation.
How do we reconcile?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
this question, glenn, as we often talk about, we need
to keep the context ofScripture.
As to understand Scripture, Iwant to give some context to
this chapter in Ezekiel of whatthey're talking about and what
we're going to discuss a littlebit further when it talks about
living in the land and thatyou'll have life.
Let me do that by going toDeuteronomy and just reading
(09:27):
five verses.
Go to Deuteronomy, chapter 30.
I want to start in verse 15.
This is Moses speaking to thechildren of Israel as they're
preparing to go into thepromised land.
See, I have set before youtoday life and prosperity and
death and adversity.
In that I command you today tolove the Lord, your God, to walk
(09:48):
in his ways and to keep hiscommandments and his statutes
and his judgments, that you maylive and multiply and that the
Lord, your God, may bless you inthe land where you are entering
to possess it.
But if your heart turns awayand you will not obey but are
drawn away and worship othergods and serve them, I declare
(10:11):
to you today that you shallsurely perish.
You will not prolong your daysin the land where you are
crossing the Jordan to enter andpossess it.
I call heaven and earth towitness against you today that I
have set before you life anddeath, the blessing and the
curse.
So choose life in order thatyou may live, you and your
(10:34):
descendants, by loving the Lord,your God, by obeying his voice
and by holding fast to him, forthis is your life and the length
of your days, that you may livein the land which the Lord
swore to your fathers, toAbraham, isaac and Jacob, to
give them Glenn.
(10:55):
This is the background of thispart of Ezekiel where he is
talking about living in the landand whether a person is going
to die or not, the illustrationsthat he gives in the first part
of 18 of the father and the sonand the grandson.
This is the context of Ezekiel18.20.
(11:18):
It's not talking aboutsalvation when it talks about
living or dying, or perishing.
It's talking about this contextof Deuteronomy where Moses says
I've set before you today lifeor death, blessings or curses,
and that if you obey God, thenyou'll have a long life in the
(11:40):
land.
Well, what are the peopleEzekiel is talking to?
People that have been exiled.
They're not in the land.
They're using this excuse thatsays well, we're here because of
what our forefathers have doneThrough this talking here in
chapter 18.
No, you're here because of whatyou've done.
(12:01):
You disobeyed God and youdisobeyed his ordinances, as you
open this session off with.
They were doing child sacrifice, worshiping idols.
They were doing the thingsexactly opposite of what God had
commanded them to do, sothey're paying the punishment
for that by being exiled.
(12:21):
So as we go back now intochapter 18 to discuss it further
and finish out the chapter,keep in mind that the life and
death that's being talked abouthere in 18 is not talking about
eternal salvation.
It's talking about the nationof Israel and the Israelites
living in the land and beingprosperous in the land.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
As you well pointed out, steve, that passage in
Deuteronomy 30 is talking aboutwhether you're going to be
blessed to live in the land.
If you remember Exodus 20, theTen Commandments obey your
mother and father, so your dayswill be long in the land or on
the land.
It's very much talking aboutwhether you're going to prosper
(13:06):
in the land.
When we turn to the book ofEzekiel, what we can't do is
just turn it to chapter 18 andpick out a verse and draw a
salvation question.
That's really different thanthe context of the book.
What is the book of Ezekieltalking about over and over
again, which is taking Israelout of Jerusalem, scattering
(13:31):
them amongst the nations.
That's what the previous wholechapter was talking about with
the eagles and the cedar trees.
It's talking about pulling thebest of Israel out of the land,
and why?
Because he promised in Exodusand Deuteronomy that if you
disobey you're not going to stayin the land.
What he's talking about here inEzekiel 18 is in that context
(13:56):
of being dispossessed from theland during the Babylonian
captivity.
Think of it this way In 2 Kings4, there's a passage in there
about a man who borrows moneyand he dies before he can pay it
back In the account.
The creditor is coming to takethe widow's sons as slaves to
(14:19):
pay back the father's debt.
What Ezekiel 18 is talkingabout is you can't do that.
If the father had a debt, youcan't throw the son in prison.
If the father robs a bank, youcan't throw the son in prison.
For the bank robbery it wasbecause the father did it.
It's talking about earthlythings.
(14:40):
Are you going to be able tostay in the land?
That's what it's talking about.
It's not a New Testamentsalvation question.
In the end, we would all agreethat we all sin and that we're
all responsible for our ownrebellion against God.
Deuteronomy 24.16 says quoteEvery man shall be put to death
(15:01):
for his own sin.
Unquote.
Romans 6.23 says the wages ofsin is death.
So none of us can stand beforeGod and say it's not my fault,
somebody else's fault, I'm thisway because of my parents.
No, no, we all stand before Godbecause of our own sin.
Ezekiel 18 is talking about thepeople being dispossessed from
(15:25):
Jerusalem by Babylon during theBabylonian captivity.
That's the context of the book,it's the context of the chapter
and it's the context of thesepassages.
What we can't do, it's illicitto take a New Testament
salvation doctrinal question andturn back here to pull out
these passages.
It's really talking aboutsomething else.
(15:45):
Now, in this chapter, verses 1through 9 start to give an
example of his point that he'strying to make.
He says in verses 1 through 9that if you have a man that does
what God says, then that manwill surely live.
He says that in verse 9.
If he walks in my statutes andmy ordinances so as to deal
(16:07):
faithfully, he is righteous andwill surely live.
The next several verses, 10through 13, speak of a violent
son.
The first righteous man has aviolent son who commits murder,
adultery, worship idols and itsays there he will then not live
and his blood will be on hisown head, says in verse 13.
(16:29):
The next verses, 14 to 17, speakof now that violent son has a
son.
This is the grandson of thefirst man who in turn, obeys the
commands of the Lord, and itsays quote he will not die for
his father's iniquity.
He will surely live, verse 17.
In these three passages, fromverses 1 to 17, you have a
(16:51):
righteous man that has an evilson.
That evil son then has arighteous grandson, and it's
saying that each man will beheld responsible for their own
sin and not the actions of theirfather.
That's really what it's saying,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And God is taking away their argument that we're
here in exile because of whatour forefathers did.
No, you're here because of whatyou've done.
You committed the acts ofiniquity and did not follow
after me.
That's why you're here.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So again, not a New Testament doctoral thing at all.
That's why church is alwaysheld to original sin is because
we can't take away theimputation of guilt without
taking away the ability toimpute Christ's righteousness to
us.
That's why it was declared aheresy three different times in
the early years of the church.
Let's go ahead and read thenext section.
(17:43):
Steve, can you start at verses18 and read through 20?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
As for his father?
Because he practiced extortion,robbed his brother and did what
was not good among his people.
Behold, he will die for hisiniquity.
Yet you say why should the sonnot bear the punishment of the
father's iniquity?
When the son has practicedjustice and righteousness and
(18:09):
has observed all my statutes anddone them, he shall surely live
.
The person who sins will die.
The son will not bear thepunishment for the father's
iniquity, nor will the fatherbear the punishment for the
son's iniquity.
The righteousness of therighteous will be upon himself
and the wickedness of the wickedwill be upon himself.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
We can strongly infer from the statements God had
made earlier in the book thatthe Jews had taken up the
practices of the pagan peoplesaround them.
In ancient days some societieswould hold the extended family
responsible for people's debtsand their crimes.
Again, if the father robs abank, throw the son in prison.
(18:54):
Apparently, the Jews had takenup some of these pagan practices
and were punishing people fortheir ancestors' crimes.
God in the book again, had beengoing through the book of
Ezekiel, had been going throughsystematically refuting some of
these horrible practices.
Steve, don't you think this ispretty clear once we get the
(19:14):
context of the book?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
correct Steve McLaughlin.
It's made really clear in verse19, because there's a
rhetorical question that's there.
That says yet you say, whyshould the son not bear the
punishment for the father'siniquity?
That was the question they wereasking.
And God's response is I'm beingconsistent.
(19:36):
Their question was that doesn'tseem right.
Their question was that doesn'tseem right.
It seems like the son shouldalso be guilty of what the
father is doing.
And God is saying no, I'm beingconsistent.
The consistency is in what eachindividual does.
If the individual sins, there'sgoing to be punishment.
(19:57):
If the individual is righteous,then there's going to be not
life, there's not going to bepunishment.
If the individual is righteous,then there's going to be not
life, there's not going to bepunishment.
The way he says it, there heshall surely live.
Now again, this righteousnessthat's talked about is in
concordance with the law, theMosaic law of keeping all the
ordinances and statutes.
So again, this is talking aboutlife in the land, not talking
(20:22):
about eternal salvation.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So again the theme of the book of Ezekiel at least
one of the themes is Goddescribing to the Jewish people
why he was condemning them andwhy he was sending in evil
Babylon to take them out of theland.
God again, in this next passagethat we're about to read, turns
to some positive things and inthis case he brings up
(20:47):
repentance.
So we now learn what happens tothe soul that repents Verse 21,
.
But if the wicked man turnsfrom all his sins which he has
committed and observes all mystatutes and practices, justice
and righteousness, he shallsurely live.
He shall not die.
All his transgressions which hehas committed will not be
(21:08):
remembered against him.
Because of his righteousnesswhich he has practiced, he will
live.
Do I have any pleasure in thedeath of the wicked, declares
the Lord.
God rather, that he should turnfrom his ways and live.
But when a righteous man turnsaway from his righteousness,
commits iniquity and doesaccording to all the
abominations that a wicked mandoes, will he live?
(21:31):
All his righteous deeds whichhe has done will not be
remembered for his treacherywhich he has committed and his
sin which he has committed.
For them, he will die.
Yet you say the way of the Lordis not right.
Hear now, o house of Israel.
Is my way not right?
Is it not your ways that arenot right?
(21:51):
When a righteous man turns awayfrom his righteousness, commits
iniquity and dies because of it, or his iniquity which he has
committed, he will die Again.
When a wicked man turns awayfrom his wickedness which he has
committed, and practicesjustice and righteousness, he
will save his life Because heconsidered and turned away from
(22:12):
all his transgressions which hehad committed.
He shall surely live, he shallnot die.
But the house of Israel saysthe way of the Lord is not right
.
Are my ways not right, o houseof Israel?
Is it not your ways that arenot right?
Therefore, I will judge you, ohouse of Israel, each according
to his conduct, declares theLord God.
(22:33):
Repent and turn away from allyour transgressions, so that
iniquity may not become astumbling block to you.
Cast away from you all yourtransgressions which you have
committed and make yourselves anew heart and a new spirit.
For why will you die, o houseof Israel?
For I have no pleasure in thedeath of anyone who dies,
(22:55):
declares the Lord God.
Therefore, repent and live.
Well, steve, according to thesepassages, does God want people
to perish?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, he doesn't.
And he's telling them look,whenever you go back into the
land, you're going to be exiledhere for a period of time it's
going to be 70 years.
He tells them through Jeremiah.
Of course, jeremiah is back inthe land itself, but
nevertheless, they're going tobe here.
You need to settle down.
You're not going to go backanytime soon that's something
(23:25):
else that we see in Ezekiel.
But when you go back, you'll beable to live in the land and
have a life in the land if yourepent and follow me.
He's giving them a picture,number one you're here because
of what you did.
You've been exiled here, but,just like Moses told the
(23:46):
Israelites going into the landback in Deuteronomy, if you
choose to follow God and thestatutes and ordinances, you'll
have a long life in the land.
Their arguments was that doesn'tsound fair.
What you're saying God is not.
Was that doesn't sound fair.
What you're saying God is notfair, it doesn't sound right.
He turns it right back on them.
Oh no, you mean tell me yourways are right, your ways of
(24:10):
disobeying me and not doing whatI have commanded you to do and
not following me.
You're trying to tell me thatyour ways are right and my ways
are wrong.
My way is that whoever livesrighteously will live long in
the land and whoever doesn't isgoing to perish.
They're not going to live longin the land.
This is the message throughchapter 18.
(24:34):
God is fair and God is just,and he's giving the people
instruction for when they goback into the land.
First of all, he's telling themhere's the reason you're here,
but second of all, he's givingthem instruction for whenever
they go back into the land.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
He says in here quite clearly that he takes no
pleasure in people beingcondemned.
That concept is brought outalso very clearly over in the
New Testament.
The Lord is patient towards you, not wishing for any to perish,
but for all to come torepentance, it says in 2 Peter
3.9.
So we have a God that islong-suffering, patient, but he
(25:14):
will get to a point where he hasto, because of his justice,
deal with sin.
If we ask the question, what dothese verses here in Ezekiel
tell us about the character ofGod?
What do they say about thecharacter of God?
Well, we can find these passageswhere he talks about repentance
and he talks about peopleliving and he also, steve, and
(25:38):
you mentioned this a couple oftimes in here says and he also,
steve, and you mentioned this acouple of times in here says you
think that your ways are rightand you're accusing me of my
ways not being right.
What's interesting, he saidthat twice in there, two
different times.
It seems to be especiallyegregious to God when puny
mankind says oh, I think I'vedecided what's right, god,
(26:01):
you're not doing what's righthere.
Well, that seems to raise hisanger especially.
We're told some things hereabout the nature of God and the
character of God when he talksabout here who's going to live
and who's going to die.
Steve, what can we learn aboutGod's character from these
passages about repentance, steve?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
what can we learn about God's character from these
passages about repentance?
He's consistent in his judgmentand he's clear in his judgment,
very clear as to whatconstitutes life and death.
Here it's, in the land.
Whenever we get to actualeternal salvation, it's clear
(26:44):
that the only way to the Fatheris through Jesus Christ and that
the only way for eternalsalvation is through Jesus
Christ.
His character is consistency,merciful, gracious, but also
fair judgment and clear as towhat constitutes obeying him and
following him.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It says some things in here that I find interesting.
It says in verse 27, when awicked man turns away from his
wickedness, which he hascommitted, and practices justice
and righteousness, he will savehis life Because he considered
and turned away from all histransgressions.
He shall surely live, he shallnot die.
That tells us that repentanceis really what God is looking
(27:26):
for.
It's a love relationship.
If there's a wicked man thatturns and repents, then he will
be forgiven.
It also says in here that allyou really have to do is keep
God's laws.
So, steve, can we get rightwith God by simply obeying?
We had talked earlier about theheresy of Pelagianism.
(27:48):
Well, that's really what thePelagianism says.
Is there's really no influenceneeded here of the Holy Spirit?
All we have to do is just obey?
Is it possible for us to justobey God throughout all our life
and be right with Him?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
In regards to this context of Ezekiel, for them to
live long in the land?
Yes, the answer to that is yes.
If they obeyed Him, followedHis statutes, they would live
long in the land.
In regards to us and salvation,and whether or not we have
eternal life with Jesus Christno, because we can't obey
(28:25):
everything.
That's what Paul talks about.
That the law was an actualtutor for us, he says in
Galatians, to show us that wecan't obey everything that God
has given to us.
So, for an eternal lifesituation is no.
We need to have somebody as amediator.
We need to have somebody as asatisfactory sacrifice.
(28:46):
We need to have somebody thathas paid our debt, and we have
that through Jesus Christ.
For these people here to livelong in the land?
Yes, obey God and his statutes.
For a person talking abouteternal life, no.
We need to believe in JesusChrist and take upon us the
(29:09):
righteousness that he gives bybelieving in him and believing
what he has done and trusting onhim as far as his death, burial
and resurrection.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Verse 31 talks about needing a new heart and a new
spirit.
How can we get a new?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
heart.
We get a new heart through thenew covenant.
We've talked about that in ourearlier sessions, that in the
new covenant there's going to betaking a heart of stone and
giving a heart of flesh.
Now again, that covenant isdirectly to Israel, but it's
connected to the church throughHebrews.
You've talked about that before.
But that's what happens iswe're given a new heart, a heart
(29:46):
of flesh, and that's whathappens whenever we become a
believer in Jesus Christ totrust on him.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
At least three times in Ezekiel it talks about people
getting a new heart and a newspirit.
One of them is right here atthe end of Ezekiel 18, and
another one we've alreadycovered Ezekiel 11, 19, says I
will give them this is Godspeaking I will give them one
heart and put a new spiritwithin them.
The other one is in chapter 36,verse 26,.
(30:24):
Quote I will give you a newheart and put we have to do is
the last line in chapter 18,therefore repent and live.
And, steve, it's so comfortingto know that if someone repents,
the message of Ezekiel 18 isthat all of us have disobeyed
God's laws, but all we have todo is repent and then live, and
(30:49):
he will give us a new heart witha new spirit.
That is such a great message andit's such a simple message,
very simple but it's so profoundand we'll be reasoning through
that again, plus more as wecontinue to work through the
book of Ezekiel next time, thank, you so much for watching and
listening, as always.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
may God bless you.
Welcome to Reasoning Through the Bible.
We do verse-by-verse Biblestudy through the Word of God.
As we go along, we spend quitea bit of time explaining the
text and then occasionally, wehave theological questions that
we slow down and talk about.
Well, today there's going to beone of those.
If you have your Bible, turn toEzekiel, chapter 18.
(00:40):
We're going to start there, ofcourse, if you've been with us
as we've been reading along.
We've seen that God appeared tothe prophet Ezekiel, and he is
in Babylon with some of thecaptives that have been removed
from Israel, but there's stillsome of the Jewish people that
are back in the land.
(01:01):
Many, if not most, of Ezekiel'smessages had to do with the
disobedience of the Jewishpeople that were in Israel and
why God was sending judgment.
There's been passage afterpassage where God was quite
clear about how Israel had beenworshiping idols.
Mosaic law prevented that theywere doing child sacrifice and
(01:25):
that was prevented in the Mosaiclaw.
They had idol worship, sexworship and gross immorality
that they had been practicingeven after God had sent many
prophets.
Well, that is the context ofthe book of Ezekiel, which
brings us to chapter 18.
(01:45):
In chapter 18, the first thingwe're introduced to is the word
of the Lord came to me in verse1, and he mentions this proverb
in verse 2.
What do you mean by repeatingthis proverb concerning the land
of Israel?
He quotes the proverb thefathers have eaten sour grapes
(02:06):
and the children's teeth are seton edge.
What he's talking about thereis do the sins of the father
affect the son?
And this same idea has beenbrought up throughout time of
whether people are punished fortheir ancestors' sin.
The same idea was in theGospels Over in John, chapter 9,
(02:28):
verse 2, the disciples hadbasically the same question.
They walked up and saw a blindman and they turned to Jesus and
said who sinned this man or hisparents?
The idea that children would bepunished for an ancestral sin is
(02:49):
a question that has appeared topeople throughout time, which
brings us to really the bigtheological question that God is
going to answer in Ezekiel 18,of whether children are guilty
of the sins of the fathers.
And the question really fallslike this and this is what God
(03:09):
is answering in this chapterwhen children are born, are they
born innocent or good?
And they remain innocent orgood until they commit a sin, a
conscious, known sin, volitionalsin and at that point they
become a sinner.
Or are people born sinners andinherit guilt from Adam and
(03:34):
their parents?
That's basically thetheological question.
And the reason it's atheological question is because
the natural man would say look,it would seem like unfair for us
to inherit guilt all the wayback to Adam.
So therefore they would hold to.
And there are some people thatare called Pelagian and
(03:55):
Pelagianism would hold thatpeople are born still today,
innocent or good, that people donot inherit sin or iniquity or
guilt from their parents, thatpeople are born morally neutral
at least, or possibly morallygood, and that they are not
(04:15):
guilty of sin until they commita volitional sin.
And people that hold thatposition turn to Ezekiel 18,
verse 20, says this the personwhose sins will die this is God
speaking the person whose sinswill die, the son, will not bear
the punishment for the father'siniquity, nor will the father
(04:36):
bear the punishment for theson's iniquity.
The righteousness of therighteous will be upon himself
and the wickedness of the wickedwill be upon himself.
So that passage is related tothis question.
There's been some largetheological controversies over
the centuries simply becausethere's other passages that
(04:59):
would bring this to be not sucha clear answer.
For example, there's at leastfour places in the Bible that
say the iniquity of the fathersare going to be visited on the
sons to the third and fourthgeneration.
It mentions that in Exodus 25,exodus 34-7, numbers 14-18, and
(05:23):
Deuteronomy 5.9, the sins of thefathers we visited on the sons
to the third and fourthgenerations.
It also brings in this conceptover in the New Testament.
In the New Testament it becomesan issue with salvation.
1 Corinthians 15.22 says quotein Adam all die.
In Romans, chapter 5, makes avery clear connection between
(05:46):
the idea that all people diedwhen Adam sinned and all people
can have life through Christ.
Romans 5 is the primary passagefor explaining our salvation.
There are these people, as Isaid, that are called Pelagians,
that deny the idea of originalsin, that they would deny that
(06:07):
in Adam all die and say thatpeople are not sinners until
they commit a known volitionalsin.
The reasons why Pelagianism isdenied and let me add that this
question came up in the earlyyears of the church and
Pelagianism was declared a getsimputed to all people.
(06:27):
That Jesus' death can be givento all people and counts all
(06:52):
people that's called imputed,that his death can count for all
people.
If we accept that idea that hisrighteousness is credited to us
and his payment for sin iscredited to all people, then we
have to accept the idea thatAdam's sin can be imputed to all
people.
We cannot deny the idea ofimputation and then accept the
(07:16):
imputation of Jesus'righteousness, and the New
Testament brings this out, quote.
So then, as though onetransgression there resulted
condemnation to all men, even so, through one act of
righteousness there resulted injustification of life to all men
, unquote, that's Romans 5.18.
And in 1 Corinthians 15.22, wemust accept, quote in Adam all
(07:41):
die If we want to accept thesecond half of the same sentence
even so, in Christ all shall bemade alive.
So if we want to accept that inChrist all shall be made alive,
we have to accept in Adam, alldie.
That brings us to this questionis how do we reconcile this
(08:03):
problem?
Because we have these placesthat clearly teach us that in
Adam, all die, but yet we havehere Ezekiel 18.20, the person
whose sins will die.
And if we read the rest of thechapter, he's making a very,
very clear statement that theguilt of the person is on his
(08:25):
own head and he does not inheritguilt from his father and the
sons are not guilty of thefather's sin.
Steve, that brings us to thequestion and how do we reconcile
it?
On one hand, we have theseverses that make a very clear
connection between Adam's sinand our guilt, and then Christ's
(08:46):
righteousness and ourrighteousness, very clearly
connected in the New Testament.
But yet here in Ezekiel 18, wehave also a very clear passage
that says the person whose sinswill die and it's not passed on
from generation to generation.
How do we reconcile?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
this question, glenn, as we often talk about, we need
to keep the context ofScripture.
As to understand Scripture, Iwant to give some context to
this chapter in Ezekiel of whatthey're talking about and what
we're going to discuss a littlebit further when it talks about
living in the land and thatyou'll have life.
Let me do that by going toDeuteronomy and just reading
(09:27):
five verses.
Go to Deuteronomy, chapter 30.
I want to start in verse 15.
This is Moses speaking to thechildren of Israel as they're
preparing to go into thepromised land.
See, I have set before youtoday life and prosperity and
death and adversity.
In that I command you today tolove the Lord, your God, to walk
(09:48):
in his ways and to keep hiscommandments and his statutes
and his judgments, that you maylive and multiply and that the
Lord, your God, may bless you inthe land where you are entering
to possess it.
But if your heart turns awayand you will not obey but are
drawn away and worship othergods and serve them, I declare
(10:11):
to you today that you shallsurely perish.
You will not prolong your daysin the land where you are
crossing the Jordan to enter andpossess it.
I call heaven and earth towitness against you today that I
have set before you life anddeath, the blessing and the
curse.
So choose life in order thatyou may live, you and your
(10:34):
descendants, by loving the Lord,your God, by obeying his voice
and by holding fast to him, forthis is your life and the length
of your days, that you may livein the land which the Lord
swore to your fathers, toAbraham, isaac and Jacob, to
give them Glenn.
(10:55):
This is the background of thispart of Ezekiel where he is
talking about living in the landand whether a person is going
to die or not, the illustrationsthat he gives in the first part
of 18 of the father and the sonand the grandson.
This is the context of Ezekiel18.20.
(11:18):
It's not talking aboutsalvation when it talks about
living or dying, or perishing.
It's talking about this contextof Deuteronomy where Moses says
I've set before you today lifeor death, blessings or curses,
and that if you obey God, thenyou'll have a long life in the
(11:40):
land.
Well, what are the peopleEzekiel is talking to?
People that have been exiled.
They're not in the land.
They're using this excuse thatsays well, we're here because of
what our forefathers have doneThrough this talking here in
chapter 18.
No, you're here because of whatyou've done.
(12:01):
You disobeyed God and youdisobeyed his ordinances, as you
open this session off with.
They were doing child sacrifice, worshiping idols.
They were doing the thingsexactly opposite of what God had
commanded them to do, sothey're paying the punishment
for that by being exiled.
(12:21):
So as we go back now intochapter 18 to discuss it further
and finish out the chapter,keep in mind that the life and
death that's being talked abouthere in 18 is not talking about
eternal salvation.
It's talking about the nationof Israel and the Israelites
living in the land and beingprosperous in the land.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
As you well pointed out, steve, that passage in
Deuteronomy 30 is talking aboutwhether you're going to be
blessed to live in the land.
If you remember Exodus 20, theTen Commandments obey your
mother and father, so your dayswill be long in the land or on
the land.
It's very much talking aboutwhether you're going to prosper
(13:06):
in the land.
When we turn to the book ofEzekiel, what we can't do is
just turn it to chapter 18 andpick out a verse and draw a
salvation question.
That's really different thanthe context of the book.
What is the book of Ezekieltalking about over and over
again, which is taking Israelout of Jerusalem, scattering
(13:31):
them amongst the nations.
That's what the previous wholechapter was talking about with
the eagles and the cedar trees.
It's talking about pulling thebest of Israel out of the land,
and why?
Because he promised in Exodusand Deuteronomy that if you
disobey you're not going to stayin the land.
What he's talking about here inEzekiel 18 is in that context
(13:56):
of being dispossessed from theland during the Babylonian
captivity.
Think of it this way In 2 Kings4, there's a passage in there
about a man who borrows moneyand he dies before he can pay it
back In the account.
The creditor is coming to takethe widow's sons as slaves to
(14:19):
pay back the father's debt.
What Ezekiel 18 is talkingabout is you can't do that.
If the father had a debt, youcan't throw the son in prison.
If the father robs a bank, youcan't throw the son in prison.
For the bank robbery it wasbecause the father did it.
It's talking about earthlythings.
(14:40):
Are you going to be able tostay in the land?
That's what it's talking about.
It's not a New Testamentsalvation question.
In the end, we would all agreethat we all sin and that we're
all responsible for our ownrebellion against God.
Deuteronomy 24.16 says quoteEvery man shall be put to death
(15:01):
for his own sin.
Unquote.
Romans 6.23 says the wages ofsin is death.
So none of us can stand beforeGod and say it's not my fault,
somebody else's fault, I'm thisway because of my parents.
No, no, we all stand before Godbecause of our own sin.
Ezekiel 18 is talking about thepeople being dispossessed from
(15:25):
Jerusalem by Babylon during theBabylonian captivity.
That's the context of the book,it's the context of the chapter
and it's the context of thesepassages.
What we can't do, it's illicitto take a New Testament
salvation doctrinal question andturn back here to pull out
these passages.
It's really talking aboutsomething else.
(15:45):
Now, in this chapter, verses 1through 9 start to give an
example of his point that he'strying to make.
He says in verses 1 through 9that if you have a man that does
what God says, then that manwill surely live.
He says that in verse 9.
If he walks in my statutes andmy ordinances so as to deal
(16:07):
faithfully, he is righteous andwill surely live.
The next several verses, 10through 13, speak of a violent
son.
The first righteous man has aviolent son who commits murder,
adultery, worship idols and itsays there he will then not live
and his blood will be on hisown head, says in verse 13.
(16:29):
The next verses, 14 to 17, speakof now that violent son has a
son.
This is the grandson of thefirst man who in turn, obeys the
commands of the Lord, and itsays quote he will not die for
his father's iniquity.
He will surely live, verse 17.
In these three passages, fromverses 1 to 17, you have a
(16:51):
righteous man that has an evilson.
That evil son then has arighteous grandson, and it's
saying that each man will beheld responsible for their own
sin and not the actions of theirfather.
That's really what it's saying,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And God is taking away their argument that we're
here in exile because of whatour forefathers did.
No, you're here because of whatyou've done.
You committed the acts ofiniquity and did not follow
after me.
That's why you're here.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So again, not a New Testament doctoral thing at all.
That's why church is alwaysheld to original sin is because
we can't take away theimputation of guilt without
taking away the ability toimpute Christ's righteousness to
us.
That's why it was declared aheresy three different times in
the early years of the church.
Let's go ahead and read thenext section.
(17:43):
Steve, can you start at verses18 and read through 20?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
As for his father?
Because he practiced extortion,robbed his brother and did what
was not good among his people.
Behold, he will die for hisiniquity.
Yet you say why should the sonnot bear the punishment of the
father's iniquity?
When the son has practicedjustice and righteousness and
(18:09):
has observed all my statutes anddone them, he shall surely live
.
The person who sins will die.
The son will not bear thepunishment for the father's
iniquity, nor will the fatherbear the punishment for the
son's iniquity.
The righteousness of therighteous will be upon himself
and the wickedness of the wickedwill be upon himself.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
We can strongly infer from the statements God had
made earlier in the book thatthe Jews had taken up the
practices of the pagan peoplesaround them.
In ancient days some societieswould hold the extended family
responsible for people's debtsand their crimes.
Again, if the father robs abank, throw the son in prison.
(18:54):
Apparently, the Jews had takenup some of these pagan practices
and were punishing people fortheir ancestors' crimes.
God in the book again, had beengoing through the book of
Ezekiel, had been going throughsystematically refuting some of
these horrible practices.
Steve, don't you think this ispretty clear once we get the
(19:14):
context of the book?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
correct Steve McLaughlin.
It's made really clear in verse19, because there's a
rhetorical question that's there.
That says yet you say, whyshould the son not bear the
punishment for the father'siniquity?
That was the question they wereasking.
And God's response is I'm beingconsistent.
(19:36):
Their question was that doesn'tseem right.
Their question was that doesn'tseem right.
It seems like the son shouldalso be guilty of what the
father is doing.
And God is saying no, I'm beingconsistent.
The consistency is in what eachindividual does.
If the individual sins, there'sgoing to be punishment.
(19:57):
If the individual is righteous,then there's going to be not
life, there's not going to bepunishment.
If the individual is righteous,then there's going to be not
life, there's not going to bepunishment.
The way he says it, there heshall surely live.
Now again, this righteousnessthat's talked about is in
concordance with the law, theMosaic law of keeping all the
ordinances and statutes.
So again, this is talking aboutlife in the land, not talking
(20:22):
about eternal salvation.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
So again the theme of the book of Ezekiel at least
one of the themes is Goddescribing to the Jewish people
why he was condemning them andwhy he was sending in evil
Babylon to take them out of theland.
God again, in this next passagethat we're about to read, turns
to some positive things and inthis case he brings up
(20:47):
repentance.
So we now learn what happens tothe soul that repents Verse 21,
.
But if the wicked man turnsfrom all his sins which he has
committed and observes all mystatutes and practices, justice
and righteousness, he shallsurely live.
He shall not die.
All his transgressions which hehas committed will not be
(21:08):
remembered against him.
Because of his righteousnesswhich he has practiced, he will
live.
Do I have any pleasure in thedeath of the wicked, declares
the Lord.
God rather, that he should turnfrom his ways and live.
But when a righteous man turnsaway from his righteousness,
commits iniquity and doesaccording to all the
abominations that a wicked mandoes, will he live?
(21:31):
All his righteous deeds whichhe has done will not be
remembered for his treacherywhich he has committed and his
sin which he has committed.
For them, he will die.
Yet you say the way of the Lordis not right.
Hear now, o house of Israel.
Is my way not right?
Is it not your ways that arenot right?
(21:51):
When a righteous man turns awayfrom his righteousness, commits
iniquity and dies because of it, or his iniquity which he has
committed, he will die Again.
When a wicked man turns awayfrom his wickedness which he has
committed, and practicesjustice and righteousness, he
will save his life Because heconsidered and turned away from
(22:12):
all his transgressions which hehad committed.
He shall surely live, he shallnot die.
But the house of Israel saysthe way of the Lord is not right
.
Are my ways not right, o houseof Israel?
Is it not your ways that arenot right?
Therefore, I will judge you, ohouse of Israel, each according
to his conduct, declares theLord God.
(22:33):
Repent and turn away from allyour transgressions, so that
iniquity may not become astumbling block to you.
Cast away from you all yourtransgressions which you have
committed and make yourselves anew heart and a new spirit.
For why will you die, o houseof Israel?
For I have no pleasure in thedeath of anyone who dies,
(22:55):
declares the Lord God.
Therefore, repent and live.
Well, steve, according to thesepassages, does God want people
to perish?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
No, he doesn't.
And he's telling them look,whenever you go back into the
land, you're going to be exiledhere for a period of time it's
going to be 70 years.
He tells them through Jeremiah.
Of course, jeremiah is back inthe land itself, but
nevertheless, they're going tobe here.
You need to settle down.
You're not going to go backanytime soon that's something
(23:25):
else that we see in Ezekiel.
But when you go back, you'll beable to live in the land and
have a life in the land if yourepent and follow me.
He's giving them a picture,number one you're here because
of what you did.
You've been exiled here, but,just like Moses told the
(23:46):
Israelites going into the landback in Deuteronomy, if you
choose to follow God and thestatutes and ordinances, you'll
have a long life in the land.
Their arguments was that doesn'tsound fair.
What you're saying God is not.
Was that doesn't sound fair.
What you're saying God is notfair, it doesn't sound right.
He turns it right back on them.
Oh no, you mean tell me yourways are right, your ways of
(24:10):
disobeying me and not doing whatI have commanded you to do and
not following me.
You're trying to tell me thatyour ways are right and my ways
are wrong.
My way is that whoever livesrighteously will live long in
the land and whoever doesn't isgoing to perish.
They're not going to live longin the land.
This is the message throughchapter 18.
(24:34):
God is fair and God is just,and he's giving the people
instruction for when they goback into the land.
First of all, he's telling themhere's the reason you're here,
but second of all, he's givingthem instruction for whenever
they go back into the land.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
He says in here quite clearly that he takes no
pleasure in people beingcondemned.
That concept is brought outalso very clearly over in the
New Testament.
The Lord is patient towards you, not wishing for any to perish,
but for all to come torepentance, it says in 2 Peter
3.9.
So we have a God that islong-suffering, patient, but he
(25:14):
will get to a point where he hasto, because of his justice,
deal with sin.
If we ask the question, what dothese verses here in Ezekiel
tell us about the character ofGod?
What do they say about thecharacter of God?
Well, we can find these passageswhere he talks about repentance
and he talks about peopleliving and he also, steve, and
(25:38):
you mentioned this a couple oftimes in here says and he also,
steve, and you mentioned this acouple of times in here says you
think that your ways are rightand you're accusing me of my
ways not being right.
What's interesting, he saidthat twice in there, two
different times.
It seems to be especiallyegregious to God when puny
mankind says oh, I think I'vedecided what's right, god,
(26:01):
you're not doing what's righthere.
Well, that seems to raise hisanger especially.
We're told some things hereabout the nature of God and the
character of God when he talksabout here who's going to live
and who's going to die.
Steve, what can we learn aboutGod's character from these
passages about repentance, steve?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
what can we learn about God's character from these
passages about repentance?
He's consistent in his judgmentand he's clear in his judgment,
very clear as to whatconstitutes life and death.
Here it's, in the land.
Whenever we get to actualeternal salvation, it's clear
(26:44):
that the only way to the Fatheris through Jesus Christ and that
the only way for eternalsalvation is through Jesus
Christ.
His character is consistency,merciful, gracious, but also
fair judgment and clear as towhat constitutes obeying him and
following him.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
It says some things in here that I find interesting.
It says in verse 27, when awicked man turns away from his
wickedness, which he hascommitted, and practices justice
and righteousness, he will savehis life Because he considered
and turned away from all histransgressions.
He shall surely live, he shallnot die.
That tells us that repentanceis really what God is looking
(27:26):
for.
It's a love relationship.
If there's a wicked man thatturns and repents, then he will
be forgiven.
It also says in here that allyou really have to do is keep
God's laws.
So, steve, can we get rightwith God by simply obeying?
We had talked earlier about theheresy of Pelagianism.
(27:48):
Well, that's really what thePelagianism says.
Is there's really no influenceneeded here of the Holy Spirit?
All we have to do is just obey?
Is it possible for us to justobey God throughout all our life
and be right with Him?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
In regards to this context of Ezekiel, for them to
live long in the land?
Yes, the answer to that is yes.
If they obeyed Him, followedHis statutes, they would live
long in the land.
In regards to us and salvation,and whether or not we have
eternal life with Jesus Christno, because we can't obey
(28:25):
everything.
That's what Paul talks about.
That the law was an actualtutor for us, he says in
Galatians, to show us that wecan't obey everything that God
has given to us.
So, for an eternal lifesituation is no.
We need to have somebody as amediator.
We need to have somebody as asatisfactory sacrifice.
(28:46):
We need to have somebody thathas paid our debt, and we have
that through Jesus Christ.
For these people here to livelong in the land?
Yes, obey God and his statutes.
For a person talking abouteternal life, no.
We need to believe in JesusChrist and take upon us the
(29:09):
righteousness that he gives bybelieving in him and believing
what he has done and trusting onhim as far as his death, burial
and resurrection.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Verse 31 talks about needing a new heart and a new
spirit.
How can we get a new?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
heart.
We get a new heart through thenew covenant.
We've talked about that in ourearlier sessions, that in the
new covenant there's going to betaking a heart of stone and
giving a heart of flesh.
Now again, that covenant isdirectly to Israel, but it's
connected to the church throughHebrews.
You've talked about that before.
But that's what happens iswe're given a new heart, a heart
(29:46):
of flesh, and that's whathappens whenever we become a
believer in Jesus Christ totrust on him.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
At least three times in Ezekiel it talks about people
getting a new heart and a newspirit.
One of them is right here atthe end of Ezekiel 18, and
another one we've alreadycovered Ezekiel 11, 19, says I
will give them this is Godspeaking I will give them one
heart and put a new spiritwithin them.
The other one is in chapter 36,verse 26,.
(30:24):
Quote I will give you a newheart and put we have to do is
the last line in chapter 18,therefore repent and live.
And, steve, it's so comfortingto know that if someone repents,
the message of Ezekiel 18 isthat all of us have disobeyed
God's laws, but all we have todo is repent and then live, and
(30:49):
he will give us a new heart witha new spirit.
That is such a great message andit's such a simple message,
very simple but it's so profoundand we'll be reasoning through
that again, plus more as wecontinue to work through the
book of Ezekiel next time, thank, you so much for watching and
listening, as always.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
may God bless you.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.