September 8, 2025 • 29 mins
The ancient words of Ezekiel chapter 22 send shivers down the spine with their unsettling relevance to our modern world. As this prophetic text is unpacked, God's meticulous catalog of Israel's sins is revealed —a list that reads like today's headlines.
What makes this episode particularly powerful is the way it bridges ancient and modern contexts. We identify how Israel's transgressions—oppression of foreigners, mistreatment of widows and orphans, sexual immorality, religious hypocrisy, and economic exploitation—mirror the moral landscape of contemporary nations. This parallel raises profound questions about divine patience and judgment in our time.
The conversation takes a thought-provoking turn when examining how modern churches often splinter into camps that emphasize either social justice or doctrinal purity. Glenn and Steve make a compelling case that this represents a false dichotomy not found in scripture. God's comprehensive indictment in Ezekiel demonstrates His equal concern for how we treat the vulnerable, how we conduct ourselves morally, and how we worship Him. The hosts argue persuasively that the church's primary mission remains connecting sinners to Christ, which naturally produces both social concern and personal holiness.
Perhaps most striking is the episode's exploration of God's purifying judgment. Through the vivid metaphor of a metalworker's furnace, they illustrate how divine discipline—though painful—aims at purification rather than mere punishment. This leads to a stark choice for believers: voluntarily confess and repent or potentially face the refining fire of God's corrective measures.
You'll find yourself reflecting deeply on where your own faith community might be imbalanced and how confession might spare you from more severe divine intervention. Join us as we continue reasoning through the Bible, discovering God's timeless truths that speak with remarkable clarity to our current condition.
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May God Bless you!! - Glenn and Steve
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Today on Reasoning Through the Bible, we're going
to see God list off the sins ofhis chosen people, the Jewish
nation.
We're going to see some thingsthat look suspiciously like our
nations today.
Hi, my name's Glenn.
I'm here with Steve.
We have a ministry calledReasoning Through the Bible
where we go verse by versethrough the Word of God.
(00:40):
Right now we're in a series onthe Old Testament, prophet
Ezekiel, and we're finding thatthese dark corners of the Old
Testament have a very profoundlesson for us today, and we're
going to see that we can learnsome things about God's nature
in the way we act today bylooking at how he acted against
(01:03):
the people back in Ezekiel's day.
We're going to go ahead anddive in.
Steve, can you start at Ezekiel, chapter 22, and read from
verse 6 to verse 12?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Behold the rulers of Israel, each according to his
power, have been in you for thepurpose of shedding blood.
They have treated father andmother lightly.
Within you, the alien they haveoppressed.
In your midst, the fatherlessand the widow they have wronged.
In you, you have despised myholy things and profaned my
(01:37):
Sabbath.
Slanderous men have been in youfor the purpose of shedding
blood and in you they have eatenat the mountain shrines.
In your midst, they havecommitted acts of lewdness.
In you, they have uncoveredtheir father's nakedness.
In you, they have humbled herwho was unclean in her menstrual
(02:01):
impurity.
One has committed abominationwith his neighbor's wife and
another has lewly defiled hisdaughter-in-law, and another in
you has humbled his sister, hisfather's daughter.
In you, they have taken bribesto shed blood.
You have taken interest inprofits and you have injured
(02:22):
your neighbors for gain byoppression.
And you have forgotten me,declares the Lord God.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
With this.
That whole section is reallyjust a long list of God making a
document of the sins of theJewish people.
What I want to do is go throughhere and just talk about these
for a minute.
It's quite a long list, quitean ugly list.
But, steve, what are some ofthe sins you see in here?
If I wanted to try to just walkdown through these verses and
(02:50):
list them off.
Verse six the leaders haveabused their power in shedding
blood.
What else do we see here?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, we see mostly the top 10 commandments that are
done there.
He's listing all types ofthings that have to do with
murdering and not beinghospitable to strangers, various
different things, incest that'staking place and these things
that are against thecommandments that God has given
(03:18):
to them to follow.
Really, this is a condemnationon the rulers themselves.
God is telling them you haveallowed all of this to take
place.
You, as rulers, are the onesthat should have stood up and
said no, we're not supposed todo those things.
We're supposed to follow theordinances and statutes that God
(03:40):
has given us and commanded usto follow so that we might live
long in the land.
But you have done the oppositeof that.
You have allowed them to do itin your sight, and not only that
, but you have also participatedin it.
Now, glenn, I think this wasdirectly against what the people
in exile were saying.
They again were blaming it ontheir ancestors.
(04:04):
They again were blaming it ontheir ancestors, and God is
clearly laying the blame fortheir exile and for the
destruction of Jerusalem andJudah in its final stages.
He's laying it directly attheir feet, and specifically the
rulers of the time at theirfeet.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
He's very directly laying it at their feet.
If we look at this list of sins, first thing we notice is that
there's several different typesof things that are in here.
He talks about what we wouldcall social justice.
He talks about oppressingaliens and widows and orphans
that get wronged.
(04:39):
He talks about shedding ofblood and things like that.
These are sins that would beagainst other people, so that
the society would need tooperate better according to
God's laws.
But he also has things in hereabout personal morality, things
like having sex with familymembers that were not your wife.
(05:03):
If you look at verse 10, itsays uncovered their father's
nakedness or some of the otherEnglish translations say
dishonored their father's bed.
This very likely means havingsex with either their mother or
their stepmother.
They go on with things likeverse 11, having sex with people
you're not married to.
Verse 11, having sex withpeople you're not married to and
(05:26):
things like this.
He also has another category inthere of things like taking
bribes.
That gets mentioned a couple oftimes down in verse 12.
He talks about profaning theSabbath.
These are God's holy laws.
Profaned my holy things inverse 8.
Eaten at shrines.
This was worshiping at idolsand statues where they would
(05:51):
have offerings there.
They would offer animals tothese shrines and these statues.
Then, of course, a lot of theburnt offerings were eaten
taking interest and excessiveinterest, oppressing people for
money.
In that list we have these sinsthat are what we would call
(06:12):
social justice sins about how totreat other people.
But he also has things in hisGod's direct commands about what
we should do about sex andmorality.
We also have just purelyreligious things that have to do
with worshiping God.
All of those types of sins areall in this list, used seemingly
(06:36):
in a level ground of Godblaming the Jewish people for
all of those.
I guess where I'm driving,steve.
Does God care about things likesocial justice?
Does he care about privatemorality?
Does he care about ourreligious worship?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
system.
He absolutely cares aboutthings like that.
One of the religious items thathe mentions in here is you have
profaned my Sabbaths.
Sabbaths were a big deal.
Profane my Sabbaths.
Sabbaths were a big deal.
They were supposed to rest onthe Sabbath and they had all
these other oral traditions atJesus' day, as far as they had
taken it too far.
(07:14):
But yeah, he cares about it andhe cares about all of these
things.
He says there in 12, they hadtaken bribes to shed blood.
We would refer to that maybe asour day, as contract killings
and things like that.
Yes, god cares about it becausehe's calling all these things
out to them.
(07:35):
These are the things that youhave allowed to happen, so
they're coming under judgmentfor it and, yes, god does care
about them.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
If we look at this list of sins, question for us
today is there any of these sinsthat are not happening in our
world today?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No, every one of these sins that are listed here
are still happening today invarious forms and various ways
with various groups and nationsof people, but no, everyone
listed here is still happeningtoday.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
There truly is nothing new under the sun.
This entire list could be takenout of Ezekiel, chapter 22 and
brought into our world today.
The next question if Godpunished the ancient Jewish
people for committing these sins, would he be justified if he
gave our world the samepunishment that he gave to
(08:31):
ancient Israel.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
He would be justified in doing that.
And there's many people thatare asking the question Lord,
how long are you going to allowthis stuff to happen?
How long are you going to allowthe evil to happen?
How long are you going to allowthe evil in this world to
continue to take place?
That's a legitimate questionthat many people have.
Yeah, there's going to be a dayof reckoning at some point.
(08:55):
There was a famous sermon thatwas given by an evangelist and
the name of the sermon wasPayday Someday.
So God is going to have hisjudgment and the people are
going to have to answer for thevile things that they do today.
There is going to be an answerfor them at some day for that.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
We have in this list, as we said a minute ago,
categories of sins and if wecarry this into today, it's very
easily observed in our churchestoday, our Christian churches.
We have extremes.
On one extreme, we havechurches that are very concerned
with what we would call socialjustice.
(09:37):
How do we treat immigrants?
How do we treat the alien?
How do we treat the widows andthe orphans and the hungry and
the poor?
And God commands again, it'sright here in this list Israel
was not doing that properly andneeded to focus on those things
God cares about social justice.
(09:58):
On the other extreme, we havethings like religious things,
like proper worship and avoidingidols and keeping God's
commands, and we have churchestoday that are focused on both
of those.
It seems that there's churchesthat seem to be on the extreme,
(10:19):
to the exclusion of the others.
There's churches that onlyfocus on social justice and
there's other churches thatfocus only on worship techniques
and God's command for how weworship and whether we're
following his command.
Steve, what's the balance?
What would we say is theprimary focus of the church
(10:42):
today?
If we were to pick a singularfocus and a singular purpose for
the church, what would it?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
be today.
It would be, I believe, thegreat commission that Jesus gave
before he ascended to heaventhat we should go and preach the
gospel to all the nations,baptizing them in the name of
Jesus the Son, and makingdisciples.
That, I think, is the primaryfocus that we should do.
There's a balance even in thatthat, yes, the gospel message
(11:11):
needs to be preached, but wealso need to disciple the people
that are believers in JesusChrist, so that they will then
become more Christ-like.
As they become more Christ-like, then these items of social
justice—how do you treat thealiens and how do you take care
(11:33):
of the widows and orphans—thosethings will be taken care of on
their own If the body of Christis operating the way it's
designed to do.
We all have different gifts, weall have different areas where
we operate in the body of Christ, and we individually should be
(11:54):
doing these things to take careof the widow and orphan, and to
take care of the alien and behospital to them.
I think the bottom line, glenn,is that we as individuals, once
we become Christians throughbeing more Christ-like and
learning more of the scripturesand what God's will is for our
(12:19):
lives and for us to do I thinkthat's the main thrust of how we
can take care of these thingsthat are listed here, at least
on an individual basis.
If more of us, as Christians,did that within our
neighborhoods and within ourcommunities, then many of these
things would be taken care of.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
If we ask the question what is the primary
focus or primary goal of thechurch?
The primary problem in theworld today is sin, and sin
causes separation from God, andthe primary solution is the Lord
Jesus Christ Connecting peoplethat are sinners and separated
from God with Jesus so they canbe reconciled to God, so that
(13:05):
they can, in turn, learn of hisways and worship him and give
him glory.
That is the primary focus forthe church today.
As a support of that, as youwell said, steve, if we get that
right, then we can get the nextpart right, which is how we
treat our neighbor and how do weworship and how do we follow
(13:25):
God's commands and live arighteous and holy life.
Too many churches areprogressive and liberal churches
that do not get the sin problemcorrect.
They ignore sin, they live withsin, they accept sin and they
go out and focus on feeding thepoor and social justice.
Too many churches in ourconservative traditions do just
(13:49):
the opposite.
Problem is, we focus solely onthe doctrines and the theology
of the Bible and we ignoresocial justice.
My friend, both of thoseextremes are a problem.
We should be about the businessof connecting sinners to Christ
.
When we do so, then, my friends, public morality is a church
(14:12):
issue.
Public morality is the way thatwe have the freedom in our
culture to go out and spread thegospel.
If we do not influence theworld with salt and light and
the message of God, then we willnot have the freedoms to go out
and preach the gospel.
Too many conservative churchesthink that, well, we're not here
(14:34):
to bring in politics andcontroversial issues.
My friend, if the churchdoesn't, then who will?
God condemned the ancientIsraelites because they were not
treating the orphans and thepoor and did not focus on social
justice.
Those things are right in thelist, along with the morality
(14:55):
and the public commands.
And, my friends, if you're inthe liberal and progressive wing
, one of the things he mentionsin here were the things right
out of the commands of theScripture and morality.
We need both of them, but thetail does not wag the dog.
We need to get the prioritiesright, and the priorities are
(15:16):
preaching against sin andpreaching the Lord, jesus Christ
, and then worshiping Godcorrectly.
After that we can solve thesocial problems.
That's what we learn here inEzekiel is that all these are in
one list back here in Ezekiel22.
Steve, can you start in verse13 and read down to verse 16?
.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Behold, then, I smite my hand at your dishonest gain
which you have acquired, and atthe bloodshed which is among you
.
Can your heart endure or canyour hands be strong in the days
that I will deal with you?
I, the Lord, have spoken andwill act.
I will scatter you among thenations and I will disperse you
(15:59):
through the lands and I willconsume your uncleanness from
you.
You will profane yourself inthe sight of the nations and you
will know that I am the Lord.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
In this section, God has used very graphic language
to describe what he's going todo about the list of sins that
we just read a few moments agoIn verse 15,.
One key phrase here is that Godwill scatter the Jews, it says,
among the nations.
So in verse 15, what does Godsay he will accomplish in the
(16:34):
lives of the people bydispersing them amongst the
nations?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
He says he's going to consume their uncleanliness, in
other words, he's going to takecare of it, he's going to clean
them through that process ofexposing them to the other
nations.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Then, in the very next verse, verse 16, how will
the Jews respond?
God knows how they're going torespond.
How will they respond whenthey're scattered?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I think there in 16, glenn, he's saying they're going
to profane themselves in thesight of the nation, so they're
going to continue exposingthemselves among the nations.
They're not going to beconcentrated in the land anymore
, they're going to be scatteredand they're going to continue
doing some of these thingsamongst the nations and through
(17:20):
that process, he says, they'regoing to know that he's the Lord
.
In other words, they're goingto continue doing it.
And this is a prediction, right?
This is a prophecy from Ezekielto them, saying you're going to
do this in the future.
So whenever they do continuedoing it, then it's going to be
a problem and they'll know thatthe Lord, god, is the one who
(17:43):
has been dealing with them.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
In this section.
That's exactly right, steve.
What he's saying here is thatin verse 15, God is going to
scatter them in the nations toconsume or put an end to the
uncleanness, and then he's goingto gather them back again.
That exact same process isdescribed later in this same
(18:05):
book of Ezekiel, in chapter 36,.
God goes into even more detailon this.
In chapter 36, god says he'sgoing to scatter them amongst
the nations and once they'rescattered, they're going to
profane my name amongst all thenations.
But then God says because of myname, because of my promises,
(18:28):
I'm going to gather you back tothe land.
God is in this process ofscattering them simply because
they need to be punished for thesin, but in doing so he's going
to cleanse them.
He's going to cleanse out theidol worship.
He's going to cleanse out therebellion.
(18:49):
The problem that the Jews willhave when they get back from the
Babylonian captivity is not thedisobedience of seeking after
the foreign gods, it's not thedisobedience of the statue
worship and the idol worship.
They have almost the oppositeproblem by the time they get
(19:09):
back from the Babyloniancaptivity.
They're so fanatical aboutkeeping the letter of the law
that they miss the spirit of thelaw.
Jesus accused them of strainingout a gnat and swallowing a
camel.
He accused them of tithing thesmall spices that are out their
kitchen window but not doing thejustice to their family members
(19:33):
and not really worshiping God.
They had still set up systemsthat were focused on money,
regardless of whether the Jewswere chasing after the idols
here.
That part got cleansed out ofthem.
They had an opposite problemwhen they came back from the
Babylonian captivity, did theynot?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
They did, and this was a major contention between
Jesus and the rulers, pharisees,sadducees and scribes, in that
they had taken that oraltradition, which were a way to
look at that.
They were like a fence thatthey had put up around the
Mosaic law in order to assurethat they keep the Mosaic law.
(20:13):
But it had become such a burdenfor the people that Jesus, over
and over again, told them youhave become a burden for the
people.
And he told the people take myburden upon you.
My burden is light.
So Jesus has condemned them fordoing that and becoming so
(20:33):
legalistic that, as youmentioned that they had missed
the spirit of the law, and wecan see that depicted very well
on the Sermon on the Mount,that's, in Matthew, chapters 5
through 7.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
In the next section, god continues this very graphic,
very emotional descriptivesection on what is going to
happen to the Jewish people,starting in verse 17.
And the word of the Lord happento the Jewish people, starting
in verse 17.
And the word of the Lord cameto me saying Son of man, the
house of Israel has become dross.
To me, all of them are bronzeand tin and iron and lead in the
(21:07):
furnace, they are the dross ofsilver.
Therefore, thus says the Lord,god, because all of you have
become dross.
Therefore, behold, I am goingto gather you into the midst of
Jerusalem, as they gather silverand bronze and iron and lead
and tin into the furnace to blowfire on it in order to melt it.
(21:28):
So I will gather you in myanger and in my wrath and I will
lay you there and melt you.
I will gather you and blow onyou the fire of my wrath and you
will be Steve.
That's quite severe, it's quiteemotional.
(21:55):
What do you think of when youhear those words?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Well, I think that, going through the furnace and
the crucible, that that's apicture of great pressure and
great judgment that's going tobe on them.
And he takes all of thesemetals silver, bronze, lead, tin
putting them all together,putting them in this crucible to
get the impurities out of them.
(22:18):
He says that, israel, you havebecome as dross to me, you have
become as an impurity to me.
I'm going to put you in thiscrucible and I'm going to take
you and purify you once again,but it's going to now be done
through judgment.
That's how it's going to comeabout.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
The image here again is this of a blast furnace for
metal workers.
The ore as it comes out of theground is hardly ever pure, so
they have to melt it, they haveto heat it.
The dross is the waste product,it's the impurities, it's the
part you're trying to get out.
He says I'm going to purify you, I'm going to put you through
(23:03):
the furnace, I'm going to heatyou until you're melted.
My strong hand is going to beon you.
If we want to make useful, pure,good metal that's good for a
purpose, then you have to heatit to the melting point and then
draw off the impurities.
God says I'm going to put youthrough the purging fire of a
furnace and remove all the wasteproducts.
Steve, the question forChristians today and this is a
(23:24):
question that I have to askmyself and I think all our
listeners will have to ask thesame questions to themselves
Would I rather live with myimpurities and take the chance
of going through God's blastfurnace because he will draw
them out, but he'll do it in ablast furnace or would I rather
(23:46):
fall at his feet and beg formercy and ask for his cleansing
Holy Spirit to wash over me andtake them out.
We have a choice, one or theother, and I'd much rather fall
at his feet and ask for him tocleanse me rather than to go
through the blast furnace.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I would as well, glenn.
And by believing and trustingon the Lord Jesus Christ for
what he has done with his death,burial and resurrection, we can
become righteous in God's eyesthrough Jesus Christ, and that
is one way that we can escapethe wrath that God has for those
(24:25):
who don't follow Jesus Christ.
Now, that might sound harsh but, as you put, you have a choice
to make whether to have it drawnout under a crucible iron
furnace type situation orwhether it to be overlooked and
paid for by Jesus Christ as faras what he's done on the cross.
(24:49):
And, glenn, I'd rather have itdone that Now.
That doesn't mean that once webecome Christians that we can
continue with the impure thingsthat are in our life.
When we become Christians, wehave the indwelling of the Holy
Spirit and then we should have aconscience about us of the Holy
Spirit calling out thoseimpurities, those sinful things
(25:11):
that we're doing, and then thatbecomes a thing that we want to
get out of our life.
We want to purge it out of ourlife.
Not that the purging of themwill bring us salvation.
That's works-based of trying toget the impurities out on our
own strength.
But once we become a believer,we have the Holy Spirit and we
(25:31):
can get those impurities out ofus through the strength of God.
Paul tells us many times throughall of his epistles the many
things and blessings that we getonce we become in Christ Jesus.
He does that in great detailsin the book of Colossians.
So yes, glenn, we need to fallat the feet of Jesus Christ and
(25:53):
beg for mercy, ask him to comeinto our lives, ask him to
change our hearts, give us aheart of flesh, exchange the
heart of stone that we have andbelieve on him and trust on him.
Then we have the Holy Spirit,then we can have these
impurities in our daily life aswe become more Christ-like with
(26:15):
him, out of our lives.
But it's done on his power andit's not done on our power.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
After a very long period of the Jewish people
ignoring God's commands torepent and return to him, he
gets to Ezekiel 22, 20, and Godsays this to them I will gather
you in my anger and my wrath andI will lay you there and melt
you.
So the Christians are facedwith the same choice how can I
(26:46):
stay out of God's blast furnace?
And your answer, steve, wasexactly correct Confession and
repentance.
If we merely confess and repent, then he is loving and faithful
to forgive us of all of ourunrighteousness and cleanse us.
It says in 1 John 1.9.
I would much rather confess mysin and beg forgiveness than to
(27:08):
have God pour out punishment onme and wrath.
1 Peter 5, verses 6 and 7 says,quote 1 Peter 5, verses 6 and 7
says, quote Humble yourselvesunder the mighty hand of God
that he may exalt you in duetime.
Our job is merely to humbleourselves at his feet, admit our
sins and he will lift us up.
(27:29):
He is faithful.
That's what the Jewish peopledidn't do.
They didn't bend their will,fall at God's feet, beg
forgiveness.
He would have, just like he didseveral times back in the book
of Judges.
He'll forgive them, he'll driveout the enemies, he'll bless
them.
He'll return their land to aland of flowing with milk and
(27:51):
honey.
But they would not.
They held on to their sin If weconfess our sins.
But they would not.
They held on to their sin If weconfess our sins.
He is faithful and just toforgive us our sins and cleanse
us from all unrighteousness.
All we have to do is go to Himand confess.
But if we hang on to our sin,then we're going to be subject
to the blast furnace.
Isn't it great, steve, that wehave a loving God that will not
(28:13):
only take out the impuritieswhen we need to, and make us
something useful, metal that'sgood and pure.
We know that, but we also knowall we have to do is fall at his
feet and a loving, tenderFather will take those out in
his time.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And he's so loving that he came himself in order to
become that satisfactorysacrifice for us.
All we have to do is believeand trust on him.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
We probably shouldn't stop here because of time, but
these passages here in Ezekielare quite profound.
They're quite amazing, andwe're going to learn more of
them next time as we continue toreason through.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Ezekiel, thank you so much for watching and listening
.
May God bless you.
Today on Reasoning Through the Bible, we're going
to see God list off the sins ofhis chosen people, the Jewish
nation.
We're going to see some thingsthat look suspiciously like our
nations today.
Hi, my name's Glenn.
I'm here with Steve.
We have a ministry calledReasoning Through the Bible
where we go verse by versethrough the Word of God.
(00:40):
Right now we're in a series onthe Old Testament, prophet
Ezekiel, and we're finding thatthese dark corners of the Old
Testament have a very profoundlesson for us today, and we're
going to see that we can learnsome things about God's nature
in the way we act today bylooking at how he acted against
(01:03):
the people back in Ezekiel's day.
We're going to go ahead anddive in.
Steve, can you start at Ezekiel, chapter 22, and read from
verse 6 to verse 12?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Behold the rulers of Israel, each according to his
power, have been in you for thepurpose of shedding blood.
They have treated father andmother lightly.
Within you, the alien they haveoppressed.
In your midst, the fatherlessand the widow they have wronged.
In you, you have despised myholy things and profaned my
(01:37):
Sabbath.
Slanderous men have been in youfor the purpose of shedding
blood and in you they have eatenat the mountain shrines.
In your midst, they havecommitted acts of lewdness.
In you, they have uncoveredtheir father's nakedness.
In you, they have humbled herwho was unclean in her menstrual
(02:01):
impurity.
One has committed abominationwith his neighbor's wife and
another has lewly defiled hisdaughter-in-law, and another in
you has humbled his sister, hisfather's daughter.
In you, they have taken bribesto shed blood.
You have taken interest inprofits and you have injured
(02:22):
your neighbors for gain byoppression.
And you have forgotten me,declares the Lord God.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
With this.
That whole section is reallyjust a long list of God making a
document of the sins of theJewish people.
What I want to do is go throughhere and just talk about these
for a minute.
It's quite a long list, quitean ugly list.
But, steve, what are some ofthe sins you see in here?
If I wanted to try to just walkdown through these verses and
(02:50):
list them off.
Verse six the leaders haveabused their power in shedding
blood.
What else do we see here?
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, we see mostly the top 10 commandments that are
done there.
He's listing all types ofthings that have to do with
murdering and not beinghospitable to strangers, various
different things, incest that'staking place and these things
that are against thecommandments that God has given
(03:18):
to them to follow.
Really, this is a condemnationon the rulers themselves.
God is telling them you haveallowed all of this to take
place.
You, as rulers, are the onesthat should have stood up and
said no, we're not supposed todo those things.
We're supposed to follow theordinances and statutes that God
(03:40):
has given us and commanded usto follow so that we might live
long in the land.
But you have done the oppositeof that.
You have allowed them to do itin your sight, and not only that
, but you have also participatedin it.
Now, glenn, I think this wasdirectly against what the people
in exile were saying.
They again were blaming it ontheir ancestors.
(04:04):
They again were blaming it ontheir ancestors, and God is
clearly laying the blame fortheir exile and for the
destruction of Jerusalem andJudah in its final stages.
He's laying it directly attheir feet, and specifically the
rulers of the time at theirfeet.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
He's very directly laying it at their feet.
If we look at this list of sins, first thing we notice is that
there's several different typesof things that are in here.
He talks about what we wouldcall social justice.
He talks about oppressingaliens and widows and orphans
that get wronged.
(04:39):
He talks about shedding ofblood and things like that.
These are sins that would beagainst other people, so that
the society would need tooperate better according to
God's laws.
But he also has things in hereabout personal morality, things
like having sex with familymembers that were not your wife.
(05:03):
If you look at verse 10, itsays uncovered their father's
nakedness or some of the otherEnglish translations say
dishonored their father's bed.
This very likely means havingsex with either their mother or
their stepmother.
They go on with things likeverse 11, having sex with people
you're not married to.
Verse 11, having sex withpeople you're not married to and
(05:26):
things like this.
He also has another category inthere of things like taking
bribes.
That gets mentioned a couple oftimes down in verse 12.
He talks about profaning theSabbath.
These are God's holy laws.
Profaned my holy things inverse 8.
Eaten at shrines.
This was worshiping at idolsand statues where they would
(05:51):
have offerings there.
They would offer animals tothese shrines and these statues.
Then, of course, a lot of theburnt offerings were eaten
taking interest and excessiveinterest, oppressing people for
money.
In that list we have these sinsthat are what we would call
(06:12):
social justice sins about how totreat other people.
But he also has things in hisGod's direct commands about what
we should do about sex andmorality.
We also have just purelyreligious things that have to do
with worshiping God.
All of those types of sins areall in this list, used seemingly
(06:36):
in a level ground of Godblaming the Jewish people for
all of those.
I guess where I'm driving,steve.
Does God care about things likesocial justice?
Does he care about privatemorality?
Does he care about ourreligious worship?
Speaker 2 (06:53):
system.
He absolutely cares aboutthings like that.
One of the religious items thathe mentions in here is you have
profaned my Sabbaths.
Sabbaths were a big deal.
Profane my Sabbaths.
Sabbaths were a big deal.
They were supposed to rest onthe Sabbath and they had all
these other oral traditions atJesus' day, as far as they had
taken it too far.
(07:14):
But yeah, he cares about it andhe cares about all of these
things.
He says there in 12, they hadtaken bribes to shed blood.
We would refer to that maybe asour day, as contract killings
and things like that.
Yes, god cares about it becausehe's calling all these things
out to them.
(07:35):
These are the things that youhave allowed to happen, so
they're coming under judgmentfor it and, yes, god does care
about them.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
If we look at this list of sins, question for us
today is there any of these sinsthat are not happening in our
world today?
Speaker 2 (07:53):
No, every one of these sins that are listed here
are still happening today invarious forms and various ways
with various groups and nationsof people, but no, everyone
listed here is still happeningtoday.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
There truly is nothing new under the sun.
This entire list could be takenout of Ezekiel, chapter 22 and
brought into our world today.
The next question if Godpunished the ancient Jewish
people for committing these sins, would he be justified if he
gave our world the samepunishment that he gave to
(08:31):
ancient Israel.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
He would be justified in doing that.
And there's many people thatare asking the question Lord,
how long are you going to allowthis stuff to happen?
How long are you going to allowthe evil to happen?
How long are you going to allowthe evil in this world to
continue to take place?
That's a legitimate questionthat many people have.
Yeah, there's going to be a dayof reckoning at some point.
(08:55):
There was a famous sermon thatwas given by an evangelist and
the name of the sermon wasPayday Someday.
So God is going to have hisjudgment and the people are
going to have to answer for thevile things that they do today.
There is going to be an answerfor them at some day for that.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
We have in this list, as we said a minute ago,
categories of sins and if wecarry this into today, it's very
easily observed in our churchestoday, our Christian churches.
We have extremes.
On one extreme, we havechurches that are very concerned
with what we would call socialjustice.
(09:37):
How do we treat immigrants?
How do we treat the alien?
How do we treat the widows andthe orphans and the hungry and
the poor?
And God commands again, it'sright here in this list Israel
was not doing that properly andneeded to focus on those things
God cares about social justice.
(09:58):
On the other extreme, we havethings like religious things,
like proper worship and avoidingidols and keeping God's
commands, and we have churchestoday that are focused on both
of those.
It seems that there's churchesthat seem to be on the extreme,
(10:19):
to the exclusion of the others.
There's churches that onlyfocus on social justice and
there's other churches thatfocus only on worship techniques
and God's command for how weworship and whether we're
following his command.
Steve, what's the balance?
What would we say is theprimary focus of the church
(10:42):
today?
If we were to pick a singularfocus and a singular purpose for
the church, what would it?
Speaker 2 (10:48):
be today.
It would be, I believe, thegreat commission that Jesus gave
before he ascended to heaventhat we should go and preach the
gospel to all the nations,baptizing them in the name of
Jesus the Son, and makingdisciples.
That, I think, is the primaryfocus that we should do.
There's a balance even in thatthat, yes, the gospel message
(11:11):
needs to be preached, but wealso need to disciple the people
that are believers in JesusChrist, so that they will then
become more Christ-like.
As they become more Christ-like, then these items of social
justice—how do you treat thealiens and how do you take care
(11:33):
of the widows and orphans—thosethings will be taken care of on
their own If the body of Christis operating the way it's
designed to do.
We all have different gifts, weall have different areas where
we operate in the body of Christ, and we individually should be
(11:54):
doing these things to take careof the widow and orphan, and to
take care of the alien and behospital to them.
I think the bottom line, glenn,is that we as individuals, once
we become Christians throughbeing more Christ-like and
learning more of the scripturesand what God's will is for our
(12:19):
lives and for us to do I thinkthat's the main thrust of how we
can take care of these thingsthat are listed here, at least
on an individual basis.
If more of us, as Christians,did that within our
neighborhoods and within ourcommunities, then many of these
things would be taken care of.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
If we ask the question what is the primary
focus or primary goal of thechurch?
The primary problem in theworld today is sin, and sin
causes separation from God, andthe primary solution is the Lord
Jesus Christ Connecting peoplethat are sinners and separated
from God with Jesus so they canbe reconciled to God, so that
(13:05):
they can, in turn, learn of hisways and worship him and give
him glory.
That is the primary focus forthe church today.
As a support of that, as youwell said, steve, if we get that
right, then we can get the nextpart right, which is how we
treat our neighbor and how do weworship and how do we follow
(13:25):
God's commands and live arighteous and holy life.
Too many churches areprogressive and liberal churches
that do not get the sin problemcorrect.
They ignore sin, they live withsin, they accept sin and they
go out and focus on feeding thepoor and social justice.
Too many churches in ourconservative traditions do just
(13:49):
the opposite.
Problem is, we focus solely onthe doctrines and the theology
of the Bible and we ignoresocial justice.
My friend, both of thoseextremes are a problem.
We should be about the businessof connecting sinners to Christ
.
When we do so, then, my friends, public morality is a church
(14:12):
issue.
Public morality is the way thatwe have the freedom in our
culture to go out and spread thegospel.
If we do not influence theworld with salt and light and
the message of God, then we willnot have the freedoms to go out
and preach the gospel.
Too many conservative churchesthink that, well, we're not here
(14:34):
to bring in politics andcontroversial issues.
My friend, if the churchdoesn't, then who will?
God condemned the ancientIsraelites because they were not
treating the orphans and thepoor and did not focus on social
justice.
Those things are right in thelist, along with the morality
(14:55):
and the public commands.
And, my friends, if you're inthe liberal and progressive wing
, one of the things he mentionsin here were the things right
out of the commands of theScripture and morality.
We need both of them, but thetail does not wag the dog.
We need to get the prioritiesright, and the priorities are
(15:16):
preaching against sin andpreaching the Lord, jesus Christ
, and then worshiping Godcorrectly.
After that we can solve thesocial problems.
That's what we learn here inEzekiel is that all these are in
one list back here in Ezekiel22.
Steve, can you start in verse13 and read down to verse 16?
.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Behold, then, I smite my hand at your dishonest gain
which you have acquired, and atthe bloodshed which is among you
.
Can your heart endure or canyour hands be strong in the days
that I will deal with you?
I, the Lord, have spoken andwill act.
I will scatter you among thenations and I will disperse you
(15:59):
through the lands and I willconsume your uncleanness from
you.
You will profane yourself inthe sight of the nations and you
will know that I am the Lord.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
In this section, God has used very graphic language
to describe what he's going todo about the list of sins that
we just read a few moments agoIn verse 15,.
One key phrase here is that Godwill scatter the Jews, it says,
among the nations.
So in verse 15, what does Godsay he will accomplish in the
(16:34):
lives of the people bydispersing them amongst the
nations?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
He says he's going to consume their uncleanliness, in
other words, he's going to takecare of it, he's going to clean
them through that process ofexposing them to the other
nations.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Then, in the very next verse, verse 16, how will
the Jews respond?
God knows how they're going torespond.
How will they respond whenthey're scattered?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
I think there in 16, glenn, he's saying they're going
to profane themselves in thesight of the nation, so they're
going to continue exposingthemselves among the nations.
They're not going to beconcentrated in the land anymore
, they're going to be scatteredand they're going to continue
doing some of these thingsamongst the nations and through
(17:20):
that process, he says, they'regoing to know that he's the Lord
.
In other words, they're goingto continue doing it.
And this is a prediction, right?
This is a prophecy from Ezekielto them, saying you're going to
do this in the future.
So whenever they do continuedoing it, then it's going to be
a problem and they'll know thatthe Lord, god, is the one who
(17:43):
has been dealing with them.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
In this section.
That's exactly right, steve.
What he's saying here is thatin verse 15, God is going to
scatter them in the nations toconsume or put an end to the
uncleanness, and then he's goingto gather them back again.
That exact same process isdescribed later in this same
(18:05):
book of Ezekiel, in chapter 36,.
God goes into even more detailon this.
In chapter 36, god says he'sgoing to scatter them amongst
the nations and once they'rescattered, they're going to
profane my name amongst all thenations.
But then God says because of myname, because of my promises,
(18:28):
I'm going to gather you back tothe land.
God is in this process ofscattering them simply because
they need to be punished for thesin, but in doing so he's going
to cleanse them.
He's going to cleanse out theidol worship.
He's going to cleanse out therebellion.
(18:49):
The problem that the Jews willhave when they get back from the
Babylonian captivity is not thedisobedience of seeking after
the foreign gods, it's not thedisobedience of the statue
worship and the idol worship.
They have almost the oppositeproblem by the time they get
(19:09):
back from the Babyloniancaptivity.
They're so fanatical aboutkeeping the letter of the law
that they miss the spirit of thelaw.
Jesus accused them of strainingout a gnat and swallowing a
camel.
He accused them of tithing thesmall spices that are out their
kitchen window but not doing thejustice to their family members
(19:33):
and not really worshiping God.
They had still set up systemsthat were focused on money,
regardless of whether the Jewswere chasing after the idols
here.
That part got cleansed out ofthem.
They had an opposite problemwhen they came back from the
Babylonian captivity, did theynot?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
They did, and this was a major contention between
Jesus and the rulers, pharisees,sadducees and scribes, in that
they had taken that oraltradition, which were a way to
look at that.
They were like a fence thatthey had put up around the
Mosaic law in order to assurethat they keep the Mosaic law.
(20:13):
But it had become such a burdenfor the people that Jesus, over
and over again, told them youhave become a burden for the
people.
And he told the people take myburden upon you.
My burden is light.
So Jesus has condemned them fordoing that and becoming so
(20:33):
legalistic that, as youmentioned that they had missed
the spirit of the law, and wecan see that depicted very well
on the Sermon on the Mount,that's, in Matthew, chapters 5
through 7.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
In the next section, god continues this very graphic,
very emotional descriptivesection on what is going to
happen to the Jewish people,starting in verse 17.
And the word of the Lord happento the Jewish people, starting
in verse 17.
And the word of the Lord cameto me saying Son of man, the
house of Israel has become dross.
To me, all of them are bronzeand tin and iron and lead in the
(21:07):
furnace, they are the dross ofsilver.
Therefore, thus says the Lord,god, because all of you have
become dross.
Therefore, behold, I am goingto gather you into the midst of
Jerusalem, as they gather silverand bronze and iron and lead
and tin into the furnace to blowfire on it in order to melt it.
(21:28):
So I will gather you in myanger and in my wrath and I will
lay you there and melt you.
I will gather you and blow onyou the fire of my wrath and you
will be Steve.
That's quite severe, it's quiteemotional.
(21:55):
What do you think of when youhear those words?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Well, I think that, going through the furnace and
the crucible, that that's apicture of great pressure and
great judgment that's going tobe on them.
And he takes all of thesemetals silver, bronze, lead, tin
putting them all together,putting them in this crucible to
get the impurities out of them.
(22:18):
He says that, israel, you havebecome as dross to me, you have
become as an impurity to me.
I'm going to put you in thiscrucible and I'm going to take
you and purify you once again,but it's going to now be done
through judgment.
That's how it's going to comeabout.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
The image here again is this of a blast furnace for
metal workers.
The ore as it comes out of theground is hardly ever pure, so
they have to melt it, they haveto heat it.
The dross is the waste product,it's the impurities, it's the
part you're trying to get out.
He says I'm going to purify you, I'm going to put you through
(23:03):
the furnace, I'm going to heatyou until you're melted.
My strong hand is going to beon you.
If we want to make useful, pure,good metal that's good for a
purpose, then you have to heatit to the melting point and then
draw off the impurities.
God says I'm going to put youthrough the purging fire of a
furnace and remove all the wasteproducts.
Steve, the question forChristians today and this is a
(23:24):
question that I have to askmyself and I think all our
listeners will have to ask thesame questions to themselves
Would I rather live with myimpurities and take the chance
of going through God's blastfurnace because he will draw
them out, but he'll do it in ablast furnace or would I rather
(23:46):
fall at his feet and beg formercy and ask for his cleansing
Holy Spirit to wash over me andtake them out.
We have a choice, one or theother, and I'd much rather fall
at his feet and ask for him tocleanse me rather than to go
through the blast furnace.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I would as well, glenn.
And by believing and trustingon the Lord Jesus Christ for
what he has done with his death,burial and resurrection, we can
become righteous in God's eyesthrough Jesus Christ, and that
is one way that we can escapethe wrath that God has for those
(24:25):
who don't follow Jesus Christ.
Now, that might sound harsh but, as you put, you have a choice
to make whether to have it drawnout under a crucible iron
furnace type situation orwhether it to be overlooked and
paid for by Jesus Christ as faras what he's done on the cross.
(24:49):
And, glenn, I'd rather have itdone that Now.
That doesn't mean that once webecome Christians that we can
continue with the impure thingsthat are in our life.
When we become Christians, wehave the indwelling of the Holy
Spirit and then we should have aconscience about us of the Holy
Spirit calling out thoseimpurities, those sinful things
(25:11):
that we're doing, and then thatbecomes a thing that we want to
get out of our life.
We want to purge it out of ourlife.
Not that the purging of themwill bring us salvation.
That's works-based of trying toget the impurities out on our
own strength.
But once we become a believer,we have the Holy Spirit and we
(25:31):
can get those impurities out ofus through the strength of God.
Paul tells us many times throughall of his epistles the many
things and blessings that we getonce we become in Christ Jesus.
He does that in great detailsin the book of Colossians.
So yes, glenn, we need to fallat the feet of Jesus Christ and
(25:53):
beg for mercy, ask him to comeinto our lives, ask him to
change our hearts, give us aheart of flesh, exchange the
heart of stone that we have andbelieve on him and trust on him.
Then we have the Holy Spirit,then we can have these
impurities in our daily life aswe become more Christ-like with
(26:15):
him, out of our lives.
But it's done on his power andit's not done on our power.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
After a very long period of the Jewish people
ignoring God's commands torepent and return to him, he
gets to Ezekiel 22, 20, and Godsays this to them I will gather
you in my anger and my wrath andI will lay you there and melt
you.
So the Christians are facedwith the same choice how can I
(26:46):
stay out of God's blast furnace?
And your answer, steve, wasexactly correct Confession and
repentance.
If we merely confess and repent, then he is loving and faithful
to forgive us of all of ourunrighteousness and cleanse us.
It says in 1 John 1.9.
I would much rather confess mysin and beg forgiveness than to
(27:08):
have God pour out punishment onme and wrath.
1 Peter 5, verses 6 and 7 says,quote 1 Peter 5, verses 6 and 7
says, quote Humble yourselvesunder the mighty hand of God
that he may exalt you in duetime.
Our job is merely to humbleourselves at his feet, admit our
sins and he will lift us up.
(27:29):
He is faithful.
That's what the Jewish peopledidn't do.
They didn't bend their will,fall at God's feet, beg
forgiveness.
He would have, just like he didseveral times back in the book
of Judges.
He'll forgive them, he'll driveout the enemies, he'll bless
them.
He'll return their land to aland of flowing with milk and
(27:51):
honey.
But they would not.
They held on to their sin If weconfess our sins.
But they would not.
They held on to their sin If weconfess our sins.
He is faithful and just toforgive us our sins and cleanse
us from all unrighteousness.
All we have to do is go to Himand confess.
But if we hang on to our sin,then we're going to be subject
to the blast furnace.
Isn't it great, steve, that wehave a loving God that will not
(28:13):
only take out the impuritieswhen we need to, and make us
something useful, metal that'sgood and pure.
We know that, but we also knowall we have to do is fall at his
feet and a loving, tenderFather will take those out in
his time.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
And he's so loving that he came himself in order to
become that satisfactorysacrifice for us.
All we have to do is believeand trust on him.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
We probably shouldn't stop here because of time, but
these passages here in Ezekielare quite profound.
They're quite amazing, andwe're going to learn more of
them next time as we continue toreason through.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Ezekiel, thank you so much for watching and listening
.
May God bless you.
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