Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:20):
Today, on Reasoning
Through the Bible, we're going
to meet two sisters, two youngwomen that start out very young
and beautiful but as they growolder we're going to see they
take a very dark turn and theyend up in a very bad place in
their lives.
We're going to learn some veryimportant spiritual truths with
that, because God is using thesetwo sisters to describe to us
(00:43):
some spiritual condition of hispeople.
If you have your copy of theWord of God, open it to Ezekiel,
chapter 23,.
And if you've been followingalong with us, you'll know that
God has been condemning hispeople in Jerusalem.
Ezekiel has been taken awaycaptive into Babylon and God is
(01:06):
speaking through Ezekiel to thecaptives in Babylon about what
is going to happen to theremnant in Jerusalem and why
he's doing that.
So today God is going to givethese Jewish captives a
justification for why he's aboutto do what he's going to do.
(01:28):
He gives a very graphic, veryblunt really, description.
It's almost disgusting, butit's here in the Word of God, so
we're going to read it.
And in chapter 23, he gives avery graphic condemnation of two
cities the northern kingdom ofIsrael had a capital of Samaria
(01:48):
and the southern kingdom ofJudah had the capital in
Jerusalem.
God takes these two cities,samaria and Jerusalem, and gives
them the name of two sistersOhola and Oholaba these two
women and describes theirinfidelity.
In the story, the two sistersstart out as beautiful young
(02:12):
women, but they end up beingworn out prostitutes.
It's a very ugly scene.
Nevertheless, it's before us inthe Word of God, so we're going
to dive in.
Steve, can you read the first10 verses of Ezekiel, chapter 23
?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
The Word of the Lord
came to me again, saying Son of
man, there were two women, thedaughters of one mother, and
they played the harlot in Egypt.
They played the harlot in theiryouth.
There their breasts werepressed and there their virgin
bosom was handled.
Their names were Ahola theelder and Aholabah, her sister,
(02:51):
and they became mine, and theybore sons and daughters.
And as for their names, samariais Ahola and Jerusalem is
Aholabah.
Ahola played the harlot whileshe was mine, and she lusted
after her lovers, after theAssyrians, her neighbors, who
were clothed in purple,governors and officials, all of
(03:14):
them desirable young men,horsemen riding on horses.
She bestowed her harlotries onthem, all of whom were the
choicest men of Assyria, andwith all whom she lusted after,
with all their idols, shedefiled herself.
She did not forsake herharlotries from the time in
(03:35):
Egypt, for in her youth, men hadlain with her and they handled
her virgin bosom and poured outtheir lust on her.
Therefore, I gave her into thehand of her lovers, into the
hand of the Assyrians, afterwhom she lusted.
They uncovered her nakedness,they took her sons and her
daughters, but they slew herwith the sword.
(03:57):
Thus she became a byword amongwomen and they executed
judgments on her.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
With this he speaks
of these two cities, samaria and
Jerusalem, as these two sisters, ohola and Oholaba.
He says they started out asyoung women in Egypt.
He uses the phrase they'replayed the harlot in Egypt.
Well, steve, what's he talkingabout?
They're played the harlot in.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Egypt.
I think he is hearkening backto the time whenever they came
out of Egypt and they broughtthe idols with them.
And just a few days after theywere out of Egypt, while Moses
was up on the mountain, theywanted Aaron to make them a
golden idol.
They made the golden calf andthey attributed to that golden
(04:44):
calf when they worshiped it weredancing amongst it.
It was that God that hadbrought them out of the land of
Egypt.
So I believe that this is whatGod is referencing here that
even though he had brought themout of Egypt, they took with
them some of the idols andbrought with them some of the
gods that they worshiped fromEgypt, meaning that they never
(05:07):
forgot about those gods.
Those gods were never purgedcompletely out of their mind and
they never 100%, as a nation,really truly followed God Yahweh
, the one that truly broughtthem out of Egypt.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
This section is one
of the several places in the
Bible where God describesreligious competition as
harlotry.
He describes his people as,when they go and worship other
gods, other idols, he describesthat as harlotry.
He describes it as like aprostitute would go and sell
(05:44):
herself to anybody that comesalong.
That's a very emotionaldescription of what someone
would do in their religion.
Now we live in a time todaythat was in some sense probably
similar to these ancientIsraelites, as people say.
Oh well, there's a lot ofreligion out here.
I can take a little bit of thisand a little bit of that and
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reason through to what's right.
Well, god says that isprostitution.
He says you will worship me andme alone, and my ways and my
ways alone.
He's comparing these cities,samaria and Jerusalem, as if
they were young women that hadbeen born in Egypt.
(06:25):
Remember, god formed the nationIsrael from Abraham when it was
still very, very young, just afew people.
He took them to Egypt and after400 years of being in Egypt,
they came out a very largenation.
Israel's acceptance of foreignidols was as ugly as a young
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woman being molested and thatwas the language that we just
read in here.
Was this beautiful young womanbeing molested.
It's very ugly because God seesreligious competition as very
ugly.
He sees praying in front ofstatues and having idols as
being quite ugly.
And if we look at verse 5, eventhough Israel was given the
(07:09):
great teachings of the Lord,they wanted to be like their
neighbors, the Assyrians.
Israel accepted many of thesepagan practices that were from
the Assyrians and these othergods.
Christians in our day have beenguilty of this ourselves, have
we not, steve?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
We are guilty of it
today, glenn, and I think the
main way that we're guilty of ithappening is through deception.
We let leaders deceive us andwe let leaders tell us God
really didn't say that there areparticular institutions that
the leadership says you need topray to these statues, to these
saints, you need to veneratethem and you need to go to them
(07:54):
to intercede directly to God foryou.
That is something I don't thinkthat is what God wants.
Jesus Christ came and died sothat we might have a direct
relationship with God.
The veil was torn and now wehave access to the throne room
of God.
I think that brings it out inHebrews we can go directly to
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God.
We don't have to go throughother saints.
We don't have to go throughother areas.
It borderlines worshiping thesaints and worshiping these
other figures whenever we go tothem, rather than just going
directly to God and Jesus.
Now, that might be a little bitoff-putting to some of the
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people that are listening to ourpodcast here, but it's
something that I think theyshould contemplate.
It's something that they shouldcheck themselves about.
Am I really truly worshipingJesus Christ whenever I go to
these different stations of thesaints that I go to whenever I
do the rituals, the things thatthe church tells me that I'm
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supposed to do in order to haveaccess to God.
Am I really truly worshipingJesus directly or am I
worshiping the leadership?
Am I worshiping the saints?
Am I worshiping the other iconsthat this church has?
Now, that's that one particulararea.
There are other churches thathave completely immoral people
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that are leaders in theirchurches as pastors, and those
pastors are leading theircongregations down into an
immoral acts of worshiping GodOnce again, deceiving them,
saying God is okay with theimmoral lifestyle that they're
in.
All of this, glenn is indeception.
(09:44):
It's a big thing that is goingon, I believe, today, and it's
something that Satan has beenworking the way that he's been
doing it all throughout all theages, and he's going to continue
to do it.
The only way that we cancounter against it is to know
God's Word.
Go to God's Word, study it andlet that be the sounding board
(10:05):
that we go with regarding allthese other leadership and
traditional things that aretelling us that God didn't
really say what he has clearlysaid in Scripture.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
The language here
that God uses in Ezekiel 23 is
of these two young women, andthey start out as very beautiful
.
Look at verse 7.
Instead of being a beautifulbride, now there are harlots.
She bestowed her harlotries onthem, all of whom were the
choicest men of Assyria.
The description there is nowthis beautiful young woman is
(10:39):
going and seeking out someone tohave sex with, to have
fornication and harlotry.
With Verse 8, she did notforsake her harlotries from her
time in Egypt.
So the people of Israel broughtthe idols with them out of Egypt
and they kept these practicesfor many years.
They were still around at theend of the time where Joshua was
(11:04):
at the end of his life.
They'd been carrying theseidols around for quite a while.
We can rightfully condemn theseancient Israelites for bringing
in these foreign worshippractices.
The harder part is to lookwithin ourselves and our own
churches and see are we guiltyof the same thing?
Because deep down, we're stilljust as fallible humans as they.
(11:27):
You look at the church in theMiddle Ages.
Then what did those churches do?
They made their churchbuildings look like a
competition of the king'scastles.
So they'd have these grand,large cathedrals that were
supposed to look imposing andthey established these worship
practices that look like kinglyprocessions, with the robes and
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the banners and all of thethings that look like the king
that was just across the waythere.
So the church wanted to looklike the world in those days,
like we have a grander castlethan they, our cathedral's
grander, and we have more goldinside our church than the king
does, and they put the gold upfront to try to impress people.
(12:12):
Some churches still do this Inour day.
In the modern day, we tend tonot do that.
We tend to look at worldlyentertainment and bring it in to
our churches to try to competewith the worldly entertainment
to say, look, we're just as good, we're just as entertaining as
them.
Steve, what should we do?
Instead of chasing after theworld, as Christians, can we be
(12:35):
satisfied with simple, simplebut spiritual worship practices
with the real God?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I think the most
simple thing that we can do is
preach the Word of God, thatthat should be the focal point,
and when I say preach the Wordof God, I mean make it a focus
of every sermon that is preached, not just a few verses that are
kind of mixed in with somemotivational speaking.
And I believe that in many ofour churches today that that's
(13:06):
what has happened.
We've turned into havingmotivational pastors that give
us feel-good messages about whatwe should do and how we should
live our life, but yet it'ssprinkled with the Word of God,
rather than having the Word ofGod be in the foundation.
I think that some of thepastors they feel that if I just
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go and read the Word of God,then that's boring.
That is something that thepeople aren't going to like.
They're going to want to go offsomewhere else or they're going
to want to go to the otherchurch where there actually is
some entertaining things to do,and I have to admit to you
that's a decision that thosepastors are going to have to
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make.
But in the long run, wheneveryou answer to how you handled
the Word of God someday becauseas leadership we're all going to
have to answer that question isare you going to say, well, I
did the most entertaining thingI could in order to get the lost
people into my congregation?
Or are you going to say, Istuck to the Word of God and I
(14:11):
preached the Word of God andthen that is something that you
can stand on?
You know many of these pastors.
They say that God is going tobring the increase, we plant the
seeds and that God cultivatesit and God brings the rain, and
things like that, but yet theydon't practice it in the pulpit.
They think that they have to goout and actually do the raining
(14:35):
, the cultivation, from thestandpoint of doing the things.
That's through entertainment,that is through motivational
speaking, that's throughdifferent ways.
So what goes along with that,or drops to the wayside, is the
actual verse-by-verse teachingof the Word of God.
I know that at least I'msounding, in this particular
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session, maybe a little bitharsh on things, but the text
that we're dealing with here,glenn, is very harsh.
Think of it that God isdepicting these two capitals of
the nation of Israel as beingharlots and that they have slept
with the other nations thatthey wanted to bring in and that
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they had brought into worshipand had been influenced by them.
So we have to, I think, bringthat to mind them.
So we have to, I think, bringthat to mind.
Do we want to have God speakharsh things of how we are
worshiping him and handling hisword today?
Do we want to be compared toharlots someday?
(15:39):
I know, I don't.
I don't know about you.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
If we look at verse 8
, she did not forsake her
harlotries from her time inEgypt.
The next verse, verse 9,.
Therefore, I gave her into thehand of her lovers, into the
hand of the Assyrians, afterwhom she lusted.
What happened was Israel hadwanted to go after these foreign
nations for their power andtheir religion, so God
(16:05):
ultimately withdrew his hand ofrestraint.
He withdrew his spirit that wasdrawing them back and let them
go follow their heart.
Anyone who ever has the phrasefollow your heart is going to be
deceived, because our heartsare desperately wicked beyond
all things.
Who can know it?
Our hearts will draw us awayfrom God and God's Holy Spirit
(16:29):
will draw us back to Him.
We need a heart transplant withnew desires.
We need a desire transplant.
We need God to draw us in withHis Spirit, because, left to
ourselves, we will be just asbad as Ohola and Oholaba here in
Ezekiel, chapter 23.
(16:49):
We will end up lusting afterother idols.
And if we look, then, at verse10, what is the result?
What happens when God givesthem over to their desires?
What does it say there, steveis going to happen.
What is the terrible?
Speaker 2 (17:03):
result?
The terrible result is that heslew him by the sword and in
this case what he means is heallowed the Assyrians to go in
and take the northern kingdom ofIsrael off into captivity and
the capital of Samaria wasdestroyed.
And in the latter part of thatverse 10, he says that she
became a byword among women andthey executed judgments on her.
(17:28):
This once great capital we alllike to think that the capitals
of our nations are somethingthat we're proud of was resulted
down to just being a byword.
It's something that was takenand judged by God through
another nation.
So, once again, we want to besure that whatever we do, that
(17:48):
is in our life and our studiesthat are true to the Word of God
, so that what our ministry,that we have, doesn't become a
byword.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
What we just
described was the Northern
kingdom, with Samaria as thecapital.
Next we're going to find whatGod says about the southern
kingdom Jerusalem is the capital.
He's still very blunt and verygraphic with what he thinks the
actions of Jerusalem is.
I'm starting in now, in verse11.
Now her sister Oholabah sawthis, yet she was more corrupt
(18:34):
in her lust than she.
And Now, in verse 11, all ofthem desirable young men I saw
that she had defiled herself.
They both took the same way.
So she increased her harlotriesand she saw men portrayed on the
wall, images of the Chaldeansportrayed with vermilion, girded
with the belts of her loins,with flowing turbans on their
(18:57):
heads, all of them looking likeofficers, like the Babylonians
in Chaldea, the land of theirbirth.
When she saw them, she lustedafter them and sent messengers
to them.
In Chaldea, the Babylonianscame to her to the bed of love
and defiled her with theirharlotry.
And when she had been defiledby them, she became disgusted
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with them.
She uncovered her harlotriesand uncovered her nakedness.
And then I became disgustedwith her, as I had become
disgusted with her sister.
Yet she multiplied herharlotries, remembering the days
of her youth when she playedthe harlot in the land of Egypt.
She lusted after theirparamours, whose flesh is like
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the flesh of donkeys and whoseissue is like the issue of
horses.
Thus, you longed for thelewdness of your youth.
When the Egyptians handled yourbosom because of the breast of
your youth, Steve, there, it'svery graphic.
One of the things I think of islike a drug addict.
A drug addict longs for thisdrug, and initially it's this
(20:03):
desire that they're seeking, buteventually the drug takes over
and now it's an addiction andthey're going after something
that they hate, and the drugends up killing them.
That's somewhat of happenedhere.
Israel and Jerusalem had lustedafter these foreign nations
because of their power, and theyended up worshiping their gods
(20:25):
because of wanting to be likethem, but ultimately, these
other nations were the ones thatended up being their
destruction.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
There's a description
here of the lust of the eyes,
the lust of the flesh and thepride of life.
Those are three things that 1John talks about and I think
that all sin can be boiled downto one of those three areas, if
not all of them at certain times.
The description here of theseother nations they're described
(20:53):
as being handsome men, handsomeprinces, strong, and that this
is something that is enticing tothe southern kingdom of Judah.
And at the very beginning ofthis section, glenn, it says
that Judah did even worse thanthe northern kingdom of Israel.
And look at what Jerusalem had,the temple that was there and
(21:17):
some of the things that we havediscussed and talked about in
the earlier chapters of Ezekielthe things that they did, the
priests were doing, the secretroom that they had and the
worshiping of idols and all theother detestable things that
were going on.
It's something that Goddescribes as enticing and it's
this enticement that people arebrought over to that evil side.
(21:42):
All of these priests as withthe last session priests,
princes, prophets, the peopleenticed, enticed, wanting to go
after the lust, to go afterother gods, in this case to go
after worldly ways.
That's an enticement that weeven have to fight in our day
(22:02):
and age, glenn, and it's notpleasant.
It's something that we have tobe on guard against, but I think
that we can apply how thenation of Israel was in the
Samaria and Jerusalem here.
We can tie it directly to ourlives today and the things that
we have to look out for, so thatwe will not be enticed of the
(22:23):
worldly ways and go to the pointwhere we then abandon.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
God the descriptions
here.
In this last section, there'sthese young men with the muscles
and the flowing turbans and theriding the horse, and they're
very handsome, and it speaks ofJerusalem as being this woman
that's lusting after this manand we're condemning them.
God is condemning them becausethey were seeking these people
(22:50):
instead of seeking people thatwere spiritually mature.
I submit that today we'repotentially just as guilty and
take it down into our world.
Today, how many times have youseen a church bring in a church
leader that was oh, this is avery, very mature spiritual
person, but boy, is he ugly.
(23:11):
You never see that.
What you do see is people oh,this pastor, he speaks well,
he's young, he's good-lookingand we really don't know much
about his spiritual maturity.
That's what I see too manytimes today, steve.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I think so.
And again, we are talking aboutleadership here.
But it is the people that goand bring the leadership in.
They're responsible as well.
You know, I get it.
Some people might be listeningto us and saying, yeah, I
understand what you're saying,but all the churches in my area
are like that.
(23:47):
They're all the same.
All I can say is that make surethat you're at least in a small
group that is studying the Wordof God, and continue to look
for churches that will preachthe Word of God and stay true to
the Word of God.
And whenever you can make adifference within your own
church, If you're given aposition of some sort of
(24:09):
leadership, do it in the rightway.
Don't do it in a rebellious way, Don't do it in a way that
you're causing factions oranything else like that.
But when you have theopportunity, maybe you're going
to be asked well, what do youthink about this or what do you
think about that?
Be truthful and tell them howyou really think about it, and
(24:29):
through those type of situationsthen you might be able to bring
about some change.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
In verse 16, it's
talking here about Jerusalem.
They didn't merely accept theforeign worldly people and ideas
, they actually went out andsought them.
They went looking for them.
They went out to seek them outand find them.
And then in the next verse, theend of verse 17,.
Once they found them and becamefamiliar with them, they became
(24:58):
a taskmaster.
She became disgusted with them.
The other thing I think of,Steve, besides just churches,
it's our sin.
That's the way our sin works.
We are enticed by the sin andwe're drawn to it.
But once we get familiar withit we find it's very disgusting
and we end up hating it and wewant to get back to purity and
(25:18):
back to the Father.
In this picture, the two womennever did repent.
They started out as beautifulyoung women.
They lusted after foreign gods,they became prostitutes and
they ended up being worn-outprostitutes that the prostitute
didn't want the men and the mendidn't want them.
It was really just disgustingall the way around.
(25:42):
In the next section we're goingto see what God actually does
about it.
So, Steve, can you read fromverse 22 down to verse 27?
.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Therefore, o Aholabah
, thus says the Lord God behold,
I will arouse your loversagainst you, from whom you were
alienated, and I will bring themagainst you from every side the
Babylonians and all theChaldeans, pechad and Shoah and
Koah, and all the Assyrians withthem, desirable young men,
(26:12):
governors and officials, all ofthem officers and men of renown,
all of them riding on horses.
They will come against you withweapons, chariots and wagons and
with a company of peoples.
They will set themselvesagainst you on every side, with
buckler and shield and helmet,and I will commit the judgment
(26:32):
to them and they will judge youaccording to their customs.
I will set my jealousy againstyou that they may deal with you
in wrath.
They will remove your nose andyour ears and your survivors
will fall by the sword.
They will take your sons andyour daughters and your
survivors will be consumed bythe fire.
They will also strip you ofyour clothes and take away your
(26:55):
beautiful jewels.
Thus, I will make your lewdnessand your harlotry, brought from
the land of Egypt, to ceasefrom you, so that you will not
lift up your eyes to them orremember Egypt anymore.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
My goodness, that
language is just so emotional,
so powerful, so descriptive.
Jerusalem had wanted to be likethe nations around them, wanted
to worship these other gods,wanted these other nations to
protect them.
So the Lord says he's going tosend those same nations in to
(27:30):
destroy her in judgment.
The nations that Jerusalem waslusting after would end up
surrounding her and destroyingher.
Steve, is it ever the case inour lives today that the sin
that we lust after willeventually surround us and
destroy us?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I think it absolutely
will.
I've heard a pastor say beforethat sin will take you farther
than you ever wanted to go andkeep you longer than you ever
intended to be kept.
That's how sin works.
It creeps in and it's a littlething that you might say, oh,
this little thing is not goingto be a problem, and before you
(28:09):
know it you're down a path ofcorruption and you're down a
path that you think that youmight not be able to get
yourself out of.
And of course, who do you go tothat you might not be able to
get yourself out of?
And of course who do you go to?
You run to God in order to getyourself out of that situation.
But with Israel here, the nation, and in this case southern of
Judah, they had done it forcenturies.
They had mocked God andabandoned God for centuries.
(28:32):
God is finally through withthem and he's turned themselves
over to these nations that aregoing to judge them.
I submit to you don't let anysin in your life get to a
situation or to a point to whereGod will just turn you over to
your own sin and then thejudgment be there on you, on the
sin that you've committed.
(28:53):
Stop that.
Go back to God, confess yoursins If you haven't already
believe in the Lord Jesus Christand your sins will be forgiven.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
We live in a day
where people like to
second-guess God in the sense ofwell, they don't think God was
moral in destroying these people.
If you've been with us throughEzekiel, there's a lot of God
talking here about how he'sgoing to cause the destruction
of large numbers of people.
If you've been with us throughEzekiel, there's a lot of God
talking here about how he'sgoing to cause the destruction
of large numbers of people.
He's going to put some of themto the sword.
(29:23):
He's going to burn some of them.
There was going to be a largeamount of death and destruction,
especially in Jerusalem.
But if we remember what this issaying right here, that we've
just read in chapter 23, theidol worship and the seeking
after other nations had beengoing on all the way back to
Egypt.
If we remember our biblicaltimeline, that's at least a
(29:46):
thousand years.
For a thousand years, god hadtold them prior to that hey, if
you get in the land and you seekafter other gods, then it's
going to end up causing yourdestruction, but if you just
believe me and trust me, I'lldrive out the enemies.
Well, they didn't believe himand didn't trust him.
(30:07):
So for a thousand years, hekept sending prophets and kept
sending messages and keptreminding them, and they kept on
seeking and lusting after theseforeign idols and these foreign
gods.
Steve was God, long-sufferingand patient, prior to when he
actually says this is the endand now the wrath is coming.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
He was absolutely
patient and long-suffering.
He sent them judges at timeswhenever they cried out to him.
He was merciful to them.
He showed many times that hebrought them out of the
situations that they were in,only to have them just continue
to go back.
But yes, he was merciful andlong-suffering with them.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
We probably should
pull it to the curb right there
for today, simply for time.
We're in a very graphic, veryblunt, very emotional section of
the Word of God, but there'sthings that—there's medicine
that we really need to taketoday so that we don't end up in
the same position as theseancient Israelites.
(31:14):
Oh, how valuable the Word ofGod is back here in.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Ezekiel, it certainly
is, glenn, as always.
We thank you so much forwatching and listening and, as
always, may God bless you.