October 29, 2025 • 37 mins
A single chapter can reset how you read prophecy, and Ezekiel 39 does exactly that. We trace the defeat of Gog, the shocking aftermath in Israel, and the unmistakable claim that God will end the profaning of His name and make Himself known among the nations. The language is concrete, the timeline is pointed, and the implications touch how we understand Israel’s future, the church age, and the character of God.
We start with the text itself—God’s stacked “I will” statements, the scale of the coalition, and the seven-year and seven-month cleanup that follows. From there we explore the core question: has there ever been a time when the nations stopped profaning God’s name and Israel knew the Lord from that day onward? History says no, which pushes the promise forward. That conclusion gathers strength from Ezekiel 36–37, where God promises to put His Spirit within Israel, unite them under “David,” and settle them in the land given to Jacob forever. If “forever” holds its plain sense, then the restoration is durable, visible, and God-driven—not earned by Israel but anchored in His name.
We also confront the common pushback about horses, bows, and wooden shields. Ezekiel wrote with the vocabulary of his age; the point is not the exact hardware but the totality of the defeat and its public witness. Keeping our hermeneutics consistent—letting “Israel” mean Israel across adjacent verses—protects the logic of the chapter and keeps grace at the center. And for clarity, we map the key differences between Ezekiel’s Gog and Magog war and the revolt in Revelation 20: different timing, leadership, objectives, and outcomes. One precedes the messianic reign with extended aftermath; the other concludes the millennium with instant judgment.
If you’re ready to see how Ezekiel 39 shapes a coherent, future-facing hope—where God vindicates His name, restores Israel, and confronts the nations—this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review telling us where you land on the timing and why.
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May God Bless you!! - Glenn and Steve
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Today we are in Ezekiel chapter 39.
So if you have your Bible, turnthere.
If you've been with us, you'vedone that.
We are covering the portion ofthe book of Ezekiel that has the
restoration of Israel.
This chapter 39 is the lastchapter in that section.
At the end of that sectiontoday, we're going to summarize
(00:42):
what we hold to be the futuristposition for the restoration of
Israel.
Hang in there till the end ofthe session today, and we'll
summarize all the passages thatwe believe support a futurist
position.
But if you were with us lasttime, the war with Magog, which
is a coalition of northerncountries, is going to come in
(01:05):
and attack Israel under a leadernamed Gog.
We're right in the middle ofthat story.
We're going to read in Ezekiel39.
As we read this, notice how manytimes God says, I will, or you
will, and what others will do.
As we read this, notice that.
Steve, can you read the firstsix verses of Ezekiel chapter
(01:28):
39?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
You, son of man, prophesy against Gog and say,
Thus says the Lord God.
Behold, I am against you, O Gog,Prince of Rosh, Meshach, and
Tubal.
And I will turn you around,drive you on, take you up from
the remotest parts of the north,and bring you against the
mountains of Israel.
(01:49):
I will strike your bow from yourleft hand and dash down your
arrows from your right hand.
You will fall on the mountainsof Israel, you and all your
troops and the peoples who arewith you.
I will give you as food to everykind of predatory bird and beast
of the field.
You will fall on the open field,for it is I who have spoken,
(02:11):
declares the Lord God.
And I will send fire upon Magogand those who inhabit the
coastlands in safety, and theywill know that I am the Lord.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Here the Lord is very descriptive, it's very
graphic language of what Godsays he will do and what will
happen.
The Lord repeatedly isdetermining what will happen.
The Lord's predictions are sureand certain.
Steve, first question (02:36):
Does God bring about his will with
certainty in the future, eventhough we have free creatures in
the world?
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Yeah, and the reason we know that he does that is
because we have the historicalevidence from other nations.
We've gone through all of thosein the previous chapters here.
We also have other books that wehave talked about and the things
that have happened.
Exodus is a huge story relatedto the nation of Egypt and
what's happened.
(03:05):
We have archaeological finds.
We have historical artifacts ofthings that are talking about
that these nations are no longerhere and no longer around.
They're spoken of here in thescriptures that God is dealing
with them.
We have the historicalarchaeological evidence that
(03:26):
they no longer exist.
So I would declare that yes, hedeals with nations with
certainty.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
In this passage, God is saying he's going to bring
this coalition of nations toattack Israel from the north.
God says he's going to bringthem there and destroy them.
That's what we just saw.
In the next couple of verses,God gives us a small clue as to
when this will happen, at leastin the sequence.
I'm reading in verse 7 (03:51):
My holy name I will make known in the
midst of my people Israel, and Iwill not let my holy name be
profaned anymore.
And the nations will know that Iam the Lord, the holy one in
Israel.
Behold, it is coming and itshall be done, declares the Lord
God.
That is the day of which I havespoken.
(04:14):
Steve, he says here veryclearly, My name, my holy name
will not be profaned anymore.
The question is, is God's namebeing profaned anywhere in the
world today?
SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
It's being profaned everywhere in the world today.
In fact, it's dropped quiteoften as a slur and a curse word
used by people against others.
Yes, God's name is mostcertainly, in the majority,
being profane today in theworld.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
He also says in that passage, the nations will know
that I am the Lord, the Holy Onein Israel.
That phrase has been repeatedseveral times in this section.
Do the nations today, or wasthere ever a time when the
nations around Israel were sureof who is the real God?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
We do see some evidence from the other books of
the Bible of certain kings.
Nebuchadnezzar is one, that atsome point he acknowledges that
God is the most high.
But in general sense, no, wedon't see the other nations
acknowledging God.
You know, that was one of thereasons why God developed the
(05:23):
nation of Israel.
It was for the nation to be anexample to the other nations of
the relationship of the one trueGod, Yahweh, with them as an
example to all the othernations.
But yet throughout history, wesee all these other nations
continually attacking Israel.
Some of it is in judgment.
It's God's judgment on Israelfor their being worshiping
(05:47):
idols.
That's the earlier part ofEzekiel here that we've talked
about.
But in general, it's the othernations really not recognizing
Yahweh, the God, the most highoverall.
I think that's the reason whythey continue to attack Israel.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Those two phrases give us a clue as to the timing
of this whole section.
He says that my name will not beprofaned anymore, and the
nations will know that I amYahweh, the true God.
Because God's name is stillbeing profaned, has been, and
the nations do not recognize Godas the true God, we can tell
(06:29):
with certainty that this isstill future.
Because of these things, we holda futurist position.
The Lord says, quote, I will notlet my holy name be profaned
anymore.
We just take that to be what itsays.
Next, the Lord gives adescription of the aftermath of
this war, this battle with Gogin Israel.
(06:52):
Steve, can you read verses ninethrough twenty?
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Then those who inhabit the cities of Israel
will go out and make fires withthe weapons and burn them, both
shields and bucklers, bows andarrows, war clubs and spears,
and for seven years they willmake fires of them.
They will not take wood from thefield or gather firewood from
the forests, for they will makefires with the weapons, and they
(07:17):
will take the spoil of those whodespoiled them and seize the
plunder of those who plunderedthem, declares the Lord God.
On that day I will give Gog aburial ground there in Israel,
the valley of those who pass byeast of the sea, and it will
block off those who would passby.
So they will bury Gog there withall his horde, and they will
(07:41):
call it the valley of Haman Gog.
For seven months the house ofIsrael will be burying them in
order to cleanse the land.
Even all the people of the landwill bury them, and it will be
to their renown on the day thatI glorify myself, declares the
Lord God.
They will set apart men who willconstantly pass through the
(08:02):
land, burying those who werepassing through, even those left
on the surface of the ground inorder to cleanse it.
At the end of seven months theywill make a search.
As to those who pass through theland, pass through, and anyone
sees a man's bone, then he willset up a marker by it until the
barriers have buried it in thevalley of Hamon Gog.
(08:26):
And even the name of the citywill be Hamona.
They will cleanse the land.
As for you, Son of Man, thussays the Lord God, speak to
every kind of bird and to everybeast of the field.
Assemble and come gather fromevery side to my sacrifice,
which I am going to sacrificefor you, as a great sacrifice on
(08:49):
the mountains of Israel, thatyou may eat flesh and drink
blood.
You will eat the flesh of mightymen and drink the blood of the
princes of the earth, as thoughthey were rams, lambs, goats,
and bulls, all of them fatlingsof Bashan.
So you will eat fat until youare glutted and drink blood
(09:09):
until you are drunk from mysacrifice, which I have
sacrificed for you.
You will be glutted at my tablewith horses and charioteers,
with mighty men and all the menof war, declares the Lord God.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
This description is just very horrible.
It's a quite graphic scene of aterrible war.
The description gives an idea ofthe huge amount of humanity that
will be destroyed in thisbattle.
The human condition is to havewar.
The human condition is to havebloodshed and violence.
(09:44):
We see that here in a greatscale.
God takes the violent people,and if you were with us in some
of the previous sections, one ofthe reasons he condemned these
other nations is because of theviolence.
Well, God takes these violentnations and rubs their nose in
it.
(10:04):
Is going to end the attacks onIsrael for all time.
This is a quite graphic scenewith a huge amount of humanity
that gets killed all in onesection of real estate, namely
the nation of Israel.
Now, the section we just readhas one of the main challenges
to the futurist position.
(10:24):
It talks in verses 9 through 10,speak of wooden weapons,
firewood.
Back in 3815, it talked aboutMagog riding on horses.
So the criticism is that it'sreally hard to see how horses,
bows, arrows, wooden shieldstalks about firewood, really
(10:45):
hard to see how this would applyto future warfare.
Steve, what would be a responsethat we would have to such a
position?
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
If you look at the history of warfare, really
horses were used up to a littleover a hundred years ago, as to
when we're speaking here.
At the beginning of World War I,there were divisions that were
using horses to drag thecaissons up to the front lines.
The caissons are the items thathold the ammunition for the
(11:15):
artillery and other things.
Prior to that, you had horsesthat were used primarily in war.
You had the development offirearms, but for the movement
of troops, horses was a majorthing that was used.
It was during World War I thattanks were developed, airplanes
were developed.
All of that modernization oftroop movements and stuff is
(11:38):
really, if you look at theoverall history, relatively new.
That would be one point that Iwould make.
The second point I would make isthat at the time that Ezekiel is
speaking here, you know, five,six hundred years BC, how is it
that he is going to describe theweapons of modern warfare?
Jets, tanks, helicopters, thosetype of things.
(12:03):
I think given here, hisdescription is in general.
He's describing the weapons ofwarfare that were used at the
time of Ezekiel's period.
He gives the description ofwhat's used bucklers, shields,
spears, bows, arrows, horses,all of those things were what
(12:23):
were used in warfare.
I believe that what we can takeout of that is that he's
describing a part of war that'sgoing to happen, and he's
describing the instruments ofthe war, whatever period that
might have been in.
Future to us, technology isgetting even greater, where some
of these weapons are becomingsmaller and even becoming
(12:47):
autonomous.
Again, even if we describethings in our day and age here,
what we use, if this war happens200 years from now, well, I can
tell you that the technologythat exists in 200 years from
now is going to be differentfrom what we have today.
I think it's prudent to be ableto say is Ezekiel is basically
(13:09):
just describing the warfare andgiving a picture that it's going
to be massive, that there'sgoing to be myriads of troops
and peoples, and it's going tobe a slaughter to the point that
the birds of the air are goingto come down, the carrions are
going to come down and feast offof the bodies of the men that
(13:32):
are going to be fighting in thiswar.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
If we're trying to decide at what point this war
with Magog is happening, there'sa group of Christians that hold
that it was fulfilled in thepast.
As we've said, we would hold itto be future.
Here's the reasoning.
And in order to come to thisdetermination, you have to take
the really the entire book andat least this whole section of
(13:55):
Ezekiel and not just one coupleof verses which talks about one
thing like wooden shields.
What you have to do is carryyour interpretation through to
the rest of the section andreally the rest of the book.
If we do that, what we find isthat every interpretation of the
book of Ezekiel has to takesomething figurative.
(14:19):
Every position has to takesomething in Ezekiel and make it
figurative.
The question then is which uhposition and which figurative
interpretation best fits withthe normal use of the language?
That's really what is before us.
If we look at chapters 36 to 39,eight times God says Israel will
(14:42):
be in the land permanently,forever.
Eight times in those chapters.
Six times in those chapters, Godsays the pagan nations around
them will see what is happeningand recognize the true God.
We'll go over these again at theend of the session today.
This passage that we've readhere says that the war with
(15:06):
Magog will begin with Israel ata time of peace, and it's going
to end at a time of peace.
Therefore, the view that wewould hold that the war is
future only requires the weaponsto be figurative, whereas the
other interpretations of thishave to allegorize or make
(15:26):
figurative terms like foreverand phrases like know that I am
the Lord.
Well, those get very difficultto allegorize or make into a
figurative phrase.
The best fit of the normal useof the language is to merely
take the weapons and make themfuture.
Otherwise, we're having to takeforever, not mean forever, or
(15:50):
no, not mean no.
Those are the positions thatreally don't fit this
interpretation.
As Steve said, if modern manwere to run out of oil, then
we'd be very quickly back tousing primitive weapons.
Let's go ahead and read the nextsection.
Starting in verse 21 says this,and I will set my glory among
the nations, and all the nationswill see my judgment, which I
(16:13):
have executed, and my hand whichI have laid on them.
And the house of Israel willknow that I am the Lord their
God from that day onward.
The nations will know that thehouse of Israel went into exile
for their iniquity because theyacted treacherously against me,
and I hid my face from them.
So I gave them into the hand oftheir adversaries, and all of
(16:36):
them fell by the sword.
According to their uncleannessand according to their
transgressions, I dealt withthem, and I hid my face from
them.
In this section, verse 22, thesense here is that all of Israel
is going to know the true Godstarting on that day, and then
forever after that.
(16:57):
This will happen in the lastdays.
It has not happened yet.
There never was a time in thepast where Israel, all of them,
knew the true God and stayedthat way forever.
Today, in the church age, peopleare measured by whether they
believe in Christ, not whatethnic origin they are.
(17:18):
We have here in this section wejust read a clue as to how to
interpret the rest of Ezekiel.
Look at verse 22.
It says, quote, the house ofIsrael will know that I am the
Lord their God.
And that means that they arerecognizing God as true, their
God, it says.
The very next verse, verse 23,quote, the house of Israel went
(17:43):
into exile for their iniquity.
We have there in those twoverses the term Israel used in
one of the verses as Israelthat's going to be under
judgment because of their sin.
The other verse has the sameword, Israel being in a right
relationship with God.
Some Bible teachers falsely goover to the New Testament and
(18:06):
then say that Israel in the OldTestament is the church.
Well, the church didn't go intoexile for its iniquity.
The church isn't judged for itsiniquity because the church's
sins have been cleansed.
So it can't be that in verse 22,Israel is symbolic of the church
recognizing the true God.
Then the very next verse, verse23, Israel is ethnic Israel
(18:30):
being punished for sin.
The only way to have aconsistent biblical hermeneutic
is to make Israel to be ethnicIsrael across the entire
section.
We can't make a hermeneuticalswitch between sentence to
sentence and phrase to phrase.
Likewise, if we look at the restof the book, chapters four
(18:50):
through 24 speak of Israel beingpunished for disbelief.
And in chapters 36 to 39 speakof Israel being rebuilt and
blessed by God.
It's just a bad hermeneutic toswitch in the middle of a book
or in the middle of a sentenceor in the middle of a phrase.
What I see here is God repeatingthese ideas for emphasis.
(19:11):
He mentions it over and over.
Why is it so hard for the modernmind to come to grips with what
he's actually saying?
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
I think it's because they don't go back here and
study the Old Testament.
They think that the OldTestament is something that is
not useful today, that it'sreally we should be preaching
the gospel of the New Testament.
I agree with that.
We both agree with that, that weshould be teaching and preaching
the gospel, the good news ofJesus Christ.
But we should also teach the OldTestament because that's where
(19:43):
we find out a lot about GodHimself, His character, His
attributes, and His faithfulnessto the nation of Israel itself.
If we don't ever go back hereand look at these Old Testament
prophets and study their books,whenever we began this, the very
first session, we mentioned howmany times have we heard Ezekiel
(20:05):
preach from the pulpit, or howmany times had we actually
taught it in our churches, youknow, because the curriculum had
us to teach it.
And it was really very few, ifany, that we had had seen that.
The answer to your question, Ithink, is they can't grasp it
because they don't go and lookat it.
We've already gone through acouple of the Old Testament
(20:26):
books, and we're gonna gothrough all of them.
But as we go through them, wesee this restoration of Israel
over and over again.
God disciplines his peoplebecause they have wandered and
they've gone into idol worship,but he's also very clear that
he's gonna restore them.
(20:46):
He says he's gonna do it as hemost famously did back in
chapter 36 because of his name.
I think it's very dangerous forthe people in modern times to
just mark Israel off and saythat God doesn't have anything
to do with Israel anymore,because really, in my opinion,
when they do that, they're alsomarking out a part of what God
(21:09):
has promised to his people.
I think it's a cautionary talefor people that they should go
back, take a look at these OldTestament books, understand
them, go verse by verse, like wehave.
When you do that, you have todeal with the text.
If you don't ever go back andstudy it, then you don't have to
deal with it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
In these next verses that wrap up chapter 39, God
once again brings up theiniquity that Israel had done in
the past, but yet it's in thesection of restoration.
So it's quite fascinating.
I'm starting in verse 25.
Therefore, thus says the LordGod, now I will restore the
fortunes of Jacob and have mercyon the whole house of Israel,
(21:53):
and I will be jealous for myholy name.
They will forget their disgraceand all their treachery which
they perpetuated against me whenthey live securely on their own
land with no one to make themafraid.
When I bring them back from thepeoples and gather them from the
lands of their enemies, then Ishall be sanctified through them
(22:14):
in the sight of many nations.
Then they will know that I amthe Lord their God, because I
made them go into exile amongstthe nations, and then gathered
them again to their own land,and I will leave none of them
there any longer.
I will not hide my face fromthem any longer, for I will have
poured out my spirit on thehouse of Israel, declares the
(22:35):
Lord God.
Steve, was Israel deserving ofGod's blessing of bringing them
back to the land?
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
Israel has never been deserving of the land.
It's God's land, by the way.
It's land that God owns, and heis the one that has declared
he's going to give it to thenation of Israel.
But in earlier sessions, wetalked about you go back in
Deuteronomy.
Moses is very clear, you'regoing to go into the land.
(23:05):
God has given you this land, butyet you don't deserve it because
you're going to go and return toidol worship.
You're going to go and falterwith God and you're not going to
believe in him totally.
You're not going to doeverything that he tells you to
do.
You're not going to completelyobey his ordinances and
statutes.
If you don't do that, thenyou're not going to live long in
(23:27):
the land.
So it's clear that God is notblind to what the human nature
is.
And he's not blind as to Israelitself.
He knows that they are going tostruggle in following these
ordinances and statutes, but yetit's a story for us.
(23:48):
He also knows that whenever wehave individual salvation,
coming to a belief in JesusChrist as our Lord and Savior,
that we're still going tostruggle in this world with
these fleshly bodies.
We're going to have to make ituntil the end of our life.
What would we do if we can'tlook back and see how faithful
(24:10):
God is with the promises he madeto the nation of Israel?
What would we do with our lives?
How do we know and have theassurance that he's going to be
faithful to the promises thathe's given us of eternal life?
To me, that's a key factor forus to be able to understand.
And it's not about Israel, it'sabout God and his character and
(24:32):
his attributes and hisfaithfulness to us, to his
creation.
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
That last thing you just said, Steve, is really the
key to the whole interpretation,which is it's not about Israel.
All they did was have disbeliefand disobedience.
God was clear about that throughall of this book.
Again, that's why we spent somany chapters going over all of
the sin and disbelief anddisobedience of Israel.
(24:59):
God was quite graphic aboutgoing over their disbelief.
Yet he comes here at the end inthis restoration section and
says, I will bring them back.
To kind of summarize ourposition here, I want to go back
through and just pick out someplaces, mainly in chapters 36 to
39, show why we have theinterpretation we do.
(25:21):
If all we had was one verse,which is 3725, we would still
hold to a futurist position.
Chapter 37, verse 25 says thisthey will live on the land, he's
talking about Israel, they willlive on the land that I gave to
Jacob, my servant, in which yourfathers lived, they will live on
(25:45):
it, they and their sons andtheir sons' sons forever.
David, my servant, will be theirprince forever.
Well, if that's the only versewe had, we would still be forced
into a futurist position simplybecause he's talking about the
land of Jacob, it's not somekind of allegorized sense of the
(26:07):
church.
And he's talking about bringingthem back through all their
generations forever.
But to just summarize thesechapters, I have three or four
main points here that I wouldhold to be the key to
interpreting this restorationsection.
First of all, the Lordrepeatedly says, He is the one
(26:30):
that is going to restore Israel.
Returning Israel to the land ishis doing, not due to the belief
and disobedience of Israel.
Chapter 36, verse 11.
He also says, quote, I will putmy spirit within you and cause
you to walk in my statutes, 36,27.
So right there, it's not becauseof their belief, it's because
(26:53):
he's going to cause them to havea faith in Jesus Christ and
bring them back and have themobey.
Did they do that by the firstcentury?
No.
Jesus told them the Jewishleaders that they were
disobedient, dead men's bones.
Quote, I am not doing this foryour sake, declares the Lord God
in 36.32.
(27:14):
Quote, I will cause breath toenter you that you may come to
life, 37.5.
Quote, I will put my spiritwithin you, and you will come to
life, and I will place you onyour own land, 37.14.
There's no real way to interpretthat other than God going to
cause this to happen.
And he is the one that willbring faith to Israel.
(27:37):
Not only that, but the returnwill be permanent.
Quote, never again bereave themof children in 3612.
Quote, I will not let you hearinsults from the nations
anymore, nor quote, stumble anylonger in 36.15.
Quote, they will live on it,they and their sons and their
(27:58):
sons' sons forever.
3725.
David, my servant, will be theirprince forever in 3725.
Quote, I will make a covenant ofpeace with them.
It will be an everlastingcovenant, 3726.
Quote, I will place them andmultiply them and will set my
sanctuary in their midstforever.
(28:20):
3726.
Quote, I will not let my holyname be profaned anymore, 39.7.
Quote, when they live securelyon their own land with no one to
make them afraid, in 3926.
So Steve, has Israel been on theland securely with faith in
Jesus Christ forever?
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
They have not.
I'm still a little bit unsure,even though you've given all
those quotations there of what'sgoing to happen to the nation of
Israel.
Obviously, I'm saying thattongue in cheek because those
are just in these chapters herethat you've given a recap in
this middle section of Ezekiel.
It doesn't come into the otherplaces that God mentions.
(29:05):
He's going to do the same thingin other scriptures or other
verses of other books.
He mentioned the same type ofrestoration in Zechariah that he
was going to, he's going to cometo Israel's rescue and he was
going to fight for them, as ittalks about in Zechariah.
It does bewilder me how peoplecan continue to ignore these
(29:28):
verses.
Again, I think it comes back tothat they just don't deal with
these verses.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
But it keeps going.
All Israel's sin is going to beremoved.
Quote, I will save you from allyour uncleanness in 36 29.
Quote, I cleanse you from allyour iniquities, 36 33.
Manifest my holiness in them inthe sight of the nations in 28
25.
Israel in the first century,when Jesus came, was still quite
(29:58):
sinful.
Read what Jesus said to thePharisees, whitewashed tombs
full of dead men's bones.
They were quite disobedient tothe Lord.
Not only that, it's going to beon the original land of Israel.
Quote, they will live in theirland which I gave to my servant
Jacob, 28-25.
And quote, they will live on theland that I gave to Jacob, my
(30:19):
servant, in which your fatherslived, 3725.
And again, there's about sixplaces that also say the pagan
nations are going to recognizeGod.
The nations will know that I amthe Lord, 37.28.
Make myself known in the sightof many nations, and they will
know that I am the Lord.
And there's several more ofthose.
(30:41):
When it says the nations willknow that I am the Lord, it
can't be that they're stillrunning around denying that God
exists and denying that he's theone in charge.
With this, we have a very clearfuturist position.
The futurist, yes, has to takewooden shields and make those
(31:02):
into an allegory or a figurativelanguage for a future military
action.
But the other views really haveto torture the text.
I think there's also adistinction between the timing
of the war with Magog in Ezekieland the war with Magog in
Revelation.
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
Is there not?
Yes, there is.
And before I talk about that, inour next session, our final
session of Ezekiel, just to addon to your last part there, in
chapter 45, God gives an outlineof the importions of the land to
each of the tribes of Israel.
We'll go over that in the nextsession, but it's clear once
(31:46):
again that God is not done withIsrael, and He's very specific
about it.
You've just gone through so manyverses, and again, we'll deal
with the chapter 45 in our nextsession.
But there is a debate amongstsome Christians in their
eschatological views, their endtime views, whether or not this
(32:07):
war that is mentioned here inEzekiel 38 and 39, Gog of Magog,
is the same thing that'smentioned at the end of
Revelation over in chapter 20,verses 7 through 10.
We can show that they'redifferent.
There's some distinctionsbetween both of them as to why
we can't say that this war isgoing to take place at the end
(32:31):
of the millennial period or themessianic kingdom.
That's one reason is because thetiming of it that talks about
here with Gog and Magog inEzekiel is prior to the
Messianic kingdom.
Whereas over in Revelationchapter 20, it's clearly the end
of the millennial kingdom.
It's at the very end there.
(32:52):
The participants are the leaderof Gog from Magog, and he's
allied with other nations ofPersia, Cush, Put, and other
nations in Ezekiel.
Whereas in Revelation, it'snations from the four corners of
the earth.
The state of Israel, they'reliving securely without walls in
Ezekiel, where in Revelation,they're going to be under the
(33:14):
rule of Jesus for a thousandyears.
The location is the mountains ofIsrael in Revelation.
It's the camp of the saints andbeloved city of Jerusalem.
The attack is initiated by God.
It says that he's going to puthooks in Gog's mouth and pull
him down over in Revelation.
It's Satan that is the leader ofthis war, Revelation 20.
(33:38):
It's the deception of thenations when he's loosed for a
little while.
We talked about the weaponryhere of horses, shields, and
bows.
There is no weaponry mentionedin Revelation.
The reason is to capture, spoil,and plunder in Ezekiel 38 and
39.
And the reason in Revelation isto destroy Jerusalem.
(34:00):
The aftermath, we just wentthrough it.
There's seven months of buryingthe dead and seven years to burn
the weapons.
In Revelation, it's immediatejudgment, followed by the great
white throne judgment.
The purpose is to sanctify God'sname among Israel and the
nations in Ezekiel, whereas inRevelation, it's to expose the
(34:21):
final rebellion and usher in theeternal state.
While Revelation talks aboutthis war of Gog and Magog, I
don't think we can call themboth the same war because of
just what we outlined here.
There's too many distinctionsbetween the two and the reason
for the for them both.
What do we do then with thetitle of the Gog Magog at the
(34:44):
end of Revelation?
Well, one way that we can lookat it is that at the end of
Revelation, this war fromEzekiel, as we've seen, is a
great, great devastation, sevenyears in order for the cleanup
to take place, the cords of man.
It's a war that has left animpact.
(35:08):
I think at the end ofRevelation, it's referred to
that's going to be that type ofa war.
It's going to be a Gog of Magogtype war that harkens back to
this war in Ezekiel.
One way that we could put itwould be that if somebody says
that they met a great defeat,many times they're saying that
that person met their Waterlooat whatever defeat that they
(35:31):
have.
Well, that's a reference toNapoleon, where he was defeated
at the Battle of Waterloo.
Whenever you mention it aboutsomebody else, they met their
Waterloo.
Obviously, they're not fightingat the battle place of Waterloo.
They're not recreating that.
It's a form of illustrating whattype of a war it was.
(35:52):
It was utter defeat forNapoleon.
Whenever you mention it wassomebody else's Waterloo, you're
just really relaying that it wasan utter defeat for them.
So I think that's how we canlook at it.
The Gog Magog at the end ofRevelation is not this Gog of
Magog that's mentioned here inEzekiel.
SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
To support that, we just point to the other things
in the book of Revelation thatpicks up things out of the Old
Testament and uses them inRevelation, such as Jezebel,
Babylon, things like that.
And in this case, Gog and Magog.
To wrap up chapter 39, Steve, wehave here this clear teaching
that God is going to bringIsrael back to the land.
(36:32):
He's going to cause them to havefaith in Jesus Christ, and he's
going to then put his spiritwithin them.
That will fulfill what is toldin Romans 11, 26, which is all
Israel will be saved.
We look forward to that gloriousday when they all worship around
(36:53):
the feet of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
Yes, we will.
And we're also going to lookforward to our final session in
the book of Ezekiel.
We're going to have someinteresting things to talk
about.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
And we'll be there wrapping up that next time on
Reasoning Through the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (37:07):
Thank you so much for watching and listening.
May God bless you.
Today we are in Ezekiel chapter 39.
So if you have your Bible, turnthere.
If you've been with us, you'vedone that.
We are covering the portion ofthe book of Ezekiel that has the
restoration of Israel.
This chapter 39 is the lastchapter in that section.
At the end of that sectiontoday, we're going to summarize
(00:42):
what we hold to be the futuristposition for the restoration of
Israel.
Hang in there till the end ofthe session today, and we'll
summarize all the passages thatwe believe support a futurist
position.
But if you were with us lasttime, the war with Magog, which
is a coalition of northerncountries, is going to come in
(01:05):
and attack Israel under a leadernamed Gog.
We're right in the middle ofthat story.
We're going to read in Ezekiel39.
As we read this, notice how manytimes God says, I will, or you
will, and what others will do.
As we read this, notice that.
Steve, can you read the firstsix verses of Ezekiel chapter
(01:28):
39?
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
You, son of man, prophesy against Gog and say,
Thus says the Lord God.
Behold, I am against you, O Gog,Prince of Rosh, Meshach, and
Tubal.
And I will turn you around,drive you on, take you up from
the remotest parts of the north,and bring you against the
mountains of Israel.
(01:49):
I will strike your bow from yourleft hand and dash down your
arrows from your right hand.
You will fall on the mountainsof Israel, you and all your
troops and the peoples who arewith you.
I will give you as food to everykind of predatory bird and beast
of the field.
You will fall on the open field,for it is I who have spoken,
(02:11):
declares the Lord God.
And I will send fire upon Magogand those who inhabit the
coastlands in safety, and theywill know that I am the Lord.
SPEAKER_01 (02:20):
Here the Lord is very descriptive, it's very
graphic language of what Godsays he will do and what will
happen.
The Lord repeatedly isdetermining what will happen.
The Lord's predictions are sureand certain.
Steve, first question (02:36):
Does God bring about his will with
certainty in the future, eventhough we have free creatures in
the world?
SPEAKER_00 (02:45):
Yeah, and the reason we know that he does that is
because we have the historicalevidence from other nations.
We've gone through all of thosein the previous chapters here.
We also have other books that wehave talked about and the things
that have happened.
Exodus is a huge story relatedto the nation of Egypt and
what's happened.
(03:05):
We have archaeological finds.
We have historical artifacts ofthings that are talking about
that these nations are no longerhere and no longer around.
They're spoken of here in thescriptures that God is dealing
with them.
We have the historicalarchaeological evidence that
(03:26):
they no longer exist.
So I would declare that yes, hedeals with nations with
certainty.
SPEAKER_01 (03:32):
In this passage, God is saying he's going to bring
this coalition of nations toattack Israel from the north.
God says he's going to bringthem there and destroy them.
That's what we just saw.
In the next couple of verses,God gives us a small clue as to
when this will happen, at leastin the sequence.
I'm reading in verse 7 (03:51):
My holy name I will make known in the
midst of my people Israel, and Iwill not let my holy name be
profaned anymore.
And the nations will know that Iam the Lord, the holy one in
Israel.
Behold, it is coming and itshall be done, declares the Lord
God.
That is the day of which I havespoken.
(04:14):
Steve, he says here veryclearly, My name, my holy name
will not be profaned anymore.
The question is, is God's namebeing profaned anywhere in the
world today?
SPEAKER_00 (04:25):
It's being profaned everywhere in the world today.
In fact, it's dropped quiteoften as a slur and a curse word
used by people against others.
Yes, God's name is mostcertainly, in the majority,
being profane today in theworld.
SPEAKER_01 (04:43):
He also says in that passage, the nations will know
that I am the Lord, the Holy Onein Israel.
That phrase has been repeatedseveral times in this section.
Do the nations today, or wasthere ever a time when the
nations around Israel were sureof who is the real God?
SPEAKER_00 (05:02):
We do see some evidence from the other books of
the Bible of certain kings.
Nebuchadnezzar is one, that atsome point he acknowledges that
God is the most high.
But in general sense, no, wedon't see the other nations
acknowledging God.
You know, that was one of thereasons why God developed the
(05:23):
nation of Israel.
It was for the nation to be anexample to the other nations of
the relationship of the one trueGod, Yahweh, with them as an
example to all the othernations.
But yet throughout history, wesee all these other nations
continually attacking Israel.
Some of it is in judgment.
It's God's judgment on Israelfor their being worshiping
(05:47):
idols.
That's the earlier part ofEzekiel here that we've talked
about.
But in general, it's the othernations really not recognizing
Yahweh, the God, the most highoverall.
I think that's the reason whythey continue to attack Israel.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Those two phrases give us a clue as to the timing
of this whole section.
He says that my name will not beprofaned anymore, and the
nations will know that I amYahweh, the true God.
Because God's name is stillbeing profaned, has been, and
the nations do not recognize Godas the true God, we can tell
(06:29):
with certainty that this isstill future.
Because of these things, we holda futurist position.
The Lord says, quote, I will notlet my holy name be profaned
anymore.
We just take that to be what itsays.
Next, the Lord gives adescription of the aftermath of
this war, this battle with Gogin Israel.
(06:52):
Steve, can you read verses ninethrough twenty?
SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Then those who inhabit the cities of Israel
will go out and make fires withthe weapons and burn them, both
shields and bucklers, bows andarrows, war clubs and spears,
and for seven years they willmake fires of them.
They will not take wood from thefield or gather firewood from
the forests, for they will makefires with the weapons, and they
(07:17):
will take the spoil of those whodespoiled them and seize the
plunder of those who plunderedthem, declares the Lord God.
On that day I will give Gog aburial ground there in Israel,
the valley of those who pass byeast of the sea, and it will
block off those who would passby.
So they will bury Gog there withall his horde, and they will
(07:41):
call it the valley of Haman Gog.
For seven months the house ofIsrael will be burying them in
order to cleanse the land.
Even all the people of the landwill bury them, and it will be
to their renown on the day thatI glorify myself, declares the
Lord God.
They will set apart men who willconstantly pass through the
(08:02):
land, burying those who werepassing through, even those left
on the surface of the ground inorder to cleanse it.
At the end of seven months theywill make a search.
As to those who pass through theland, pass through, and anyone
sees a man's bone, then he willset up a marker by it until the
barriers have buried it in thevalley of Hamon Gog.
(08:26):
And even the name of the citywill be Hamona.
They will cleanse the land.
As for you, Son of Man, thussays the Lord God, speak to
every kind of bird and to everybeast of the field.
Assemble and come gather fromevery side to my sacrifice,
which I am going to sacrificefor you, as a great sacrifice on
(08:49):
the mountains of Israel, thatyou may eat flesh and drink
blood.
You will eat the flesh of mightymen and drink the blood of the
princes of the earth, as thoughthey were rams, lambs, goats,
and bulls, all of them fatlingsof Bashan.
So you will eat fat until youare glutted and drink blood
(09:09):
until you are drunk from mysacrifice, which I have
sacrificed for you.
You will be glutted at my tablewith horses and charioteers,
with mighty men and all the menof war, declares the Lord God.
SPEAKER_01 (09:22):
This description is just very horrible.
It's a quite graphic scene of aterrible war.
The description gives an idea ofthe huge amount of humanity that
will be destroyed in thisbattle.
The human condition is to havewar.
The human condition is to havebloodshed and violence.
(09:44):
We see that here in a greatscale.
God takes the violent people,and if you were with us in some
of the previous sections, one ofthe reasons he condemned these
other nations is because of theviolence.
Well, God takes these violentnations and rubs their nose in
it.
(10:04):
Is going to end the attacks onIsrael for all time.
This is a quite graphic scenewith a huge amount of humanity
that gets killed all in onesection of real estate, namely
the nation of Israel.
Now, the section we just readhas one of the main challenges
to the futurist position.
(10:24):
It talks in verses 9 through 10,speak of wooden weapons,
firewood.
Back in 3815, it talked aboutMagog riding on horses.
So the criticism is that it'sreally hard to see how horses,
bows, arrows, wooden shieldstalks about firewood, really
(10:45):
hard to see how this would applyto future warfare.
Steve, what would be a responsethat we would have to such a
position?
SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
If you look at the history of warfare, really
horses were used up to a littleover a hundred years ago, as to
when we're speaking here.
At the beginning of World War I,there were divisions that were
using horses to drag thecaissons up to the front lines.
The caissons are the items thathold the ammunition for the
(11:15):
artillery and other things.
Prior to that, you had horsesthat were used primarily in war.
You had the development offirearms, but for the movement
of troops, horses was a majorthing that was used.
It was during World War I thattanks were developed, airplanes
were developed.
All of that modernization oftroop movements and stuff is
(11:38):
really, if you look at theoverall history, relatively new.
That would be one point that Iwould make.
The second point I would make isthat at the time that Ezekiel is
speaking here, you know, five,six hundred years BC, how is it
that he is going to describe theweapons of modern warfare?
Jets, tanks, helicopters, thosetype of things.
(12:03):
I think given here, hisdescription is in general.
He's describing the weapons ofwarfare that were used at the
time of Ezekiel's period.
He gives the description ofwhat's used bucklers, shields,
spears, bows, arrows, horses,all of those things were what
(12:23):
were used in warfare.
I believe that what we can takeout of that is that he's
describing a part of war that'sgoing to happen, and he's
describing the instruments ofthe war, whatever period that
might have been in.
Future to us, technology isgetting even greater, where some
of these weapons are becomingsmaller and even becoming
(12:47):
autonomous.
Again, even if we describethings in our day and age here,
what we use, if this war happens200 years from now, well, I can
tell you that the technologythat exists in 200 years from
now is going to be differentfrom what we have today.
I think it's prudent to be ableto say is Ezekiel is basically
(13:09):
just describing the warfare andgiving a picture that it's going
to be massive, that there'sgoing to be myriads of troops
and peoples, and it's going tobe a slaughter to the point that
the birds of the air are goingto come down, the carrions are
going to come down and feast offof the bodies of the men that
(13:32):
are going to be fighting in thiswar.
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
If we're trying to decide at what point this war
with Magog is happening, there'sa group of Christians that hold
that it was fulfilled in thepast.
As we've said, we would hold itto be future.
Here's the reasoning.
And in order to come to thisdetermination, you have to take
the really the entire book andat least this whole section of
(13:55):
Ezekiel and not just one coupleof verses which talks about one
thing like wooden shields.
What you have to do is carryyour interpretation through to
the rest of the section andreally the rest of the book.
If we do that, what we find isthat every interpretation of the
book of Ezekiel has to takesomething figurative.
(14:19):
Every position has to takesomething in Ezekiel and make it
figurative.
The question then is which uhposition and which figurative
interpretation best fits withthe normal use of the language?
That's really what is before us.
If we look at chapters 36 to 39,eight times God says Israel will
(14:42):
be in the land permanently,forever.
Eight times in those chapters.
Six times in those chapters, Godsays the pagan nations around
them will see what is happeningand recognize the true God.
We'll go over these again at theend of the session today.
This passage that we've readhere says that the war with
(15:06):
Magog will begin with Israel ata time of peace, and it's going
to end at a time of peace.
Therefore, the view that wewould hold that the war is
future only requires the weaponsto be figurative, whereas the
other interpretations of thishave to allegorize or make
(15:26):
figurative terms like foreverand phrases like know that I am
the Lord.
Well, those get very difficultto allegorize or make into a
figurative phrase.
The best fit of the normal useof the language is to merely
take the weapons and make themfuture.
Otherwise, we're having to takeforever, not mean forever, or
(15:50):
no, not mean no.
Those are the positions thatreally don't fit this
interpretation.
As Steve said, if modern manwere to run out of oil, then
we'd be very quickly back tousing primitive weapons.
Let's go ahead and read the nextsection.
Starting in verse 21 says this,and I will set my glory among
the nations, and all the nationswill see my judgment, which I
(16:13):
have executed, and my hand whichI have laid on them.
And the house of Israel willknow that I am the Lord their
God from that day onward.
The nations will know that thehouse of Israel went into exile
for their iniquity because theyacted treacherously against me,
and I hid my face from them.
So I gave them into the hand oftheir adversaries, and all of
(16:36):
them fell by the sword.
According to their uncleannessand according to their
transgressions, I dealt withthem, and I hid my face from
them.
In this section, verse 22, thesense here is that all of Israel
is going to know the true Godstarting on that day, and then
forever after that.
(16:57):
This will happen in the lastdays.
It has not happened yet.
There never was a time in thepast where Israel, all of them,
knew the true God and stayedthat way forever.
Today, in the church age, peopleare measured by whether they
believe in Christ, not whatethnic origin they are.
(17:18):
We have here in this section wejust read a clue as to how to
interpret the rest of Ezekiel.
Look at verse 22.
It says, quote, the house ofIsrael will know that I am the
Lord their God.
And that means that they arerecognizing God as true, their
God, it says.
The very next verse, verse 23,quote, the house of Israel went
(17:43):
into exile for their iniquity.
We have there in those twoverses the term Israel used in
one of the verses as Israelthat's going to be under
judgment because of their sin.
The other verse has the sameword, Israel being in a right
relationship with God.
Some Bible teachers falsely goover to the New Testament and
(18:06):
then say that Israel in the OldTestament is the church.
Well, the church didn't go intoexile for its iniquity.
The church isn't judged for itsiniquity because the church's
sins have been cleansed.
So it can't be that in verse 22,Israel is symbolic of the church
recognizing the true God.
Then the very next verse, verse23, Israel is ethnic Israel
(18:30):
being punished for sin.
The only way to have aconsistent biblical hermeneutic
is to make Israel to be ethnicIsrael across the entire
section.
We can't make a hermeneuticalswitch between sentence to
sentence and phrase to phrase.
Likewise, if we look at the restof the book, chapters four
(18:50):
through 24 speak of Israel beingpunished for disbelief.
And in chapters 36 to 39 speakof Israel being rebuilt and
blessed by God.
It's just a bad hermeneutic toswitch in the middle of a book
or in the middle of a sentenceor in the middle of a phrase.
What I see here is God repeatingthese ideas for emphasis.
(19:11):
He mentions it over and over.
Why is it so hard for the modernmind to come to grips with what
he's actually saying?
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
I think it's because they don't go back here and
study the Old Testament.
They think that the OldTestament is something that is
not useful today, that it'sreally we should be preaching
the gospel of the New Testament.
I agree with that.
We both agree with that, that weshould be teaching and preaching
the gospel, the good news ofJesus Christ.
But we should also teach the OldTestament because that's where
(19:43):
we find out a lot about GodHimself, His character, His
attributes, and His faithfulnessto the nation of Israel itself.
If we don't ever go back hereand look at these Old Testament
prophets and study their books,whenever we began this, the very
first session, we mentioned howmany times have we heard Ezekiel
(20:05):
preach from the pulpit, or howmany times had we actually
taught it in our churches, youknow, because the curriculum had
us to teach it.
And it was really very few, ifany, that we had had seen that.
The answer to your question, Ithink, is they can't grasp it
because they don't go and lookat it.
We've already gone through acouple of the Old Testament
(20:26):
books, and we're gonna gothrough all of them.
But as we go through them, wesee this restoration of Israel
over and over again.
God disciplines his peoplebecause they have wandered and
they've gone into idol worship,but he's also very clear that
he's gonna restore them.
(20:46):
He says he's gonna do it as hemost famously did back in
chapter 36 because of his name.
I think it's very dangerous forthe people in modern times to
just mark Israel off and saythat God doesn't have anything
to do with Israel anymore,because really, in my opinion,
when they do that, they're alsomarking out a part of what God
(21:09):
has promised to his people.
I think it's a cautionary talefor people that they should go
back, take a look at these OldTestament books, understand
them, go verse by verse, like wehave.
When you do that, you have todeal with the text.
If you don't ever go back andstudy it, then you don't have to
deal with it.
SPEAKER_01 (21:29):
In these next verses that wrap up chapter 39, God
once again brings up theiniquity that Israel had done in
the past, but yet it's in thesection of restoration.
So it's quite fascinating.
I'm starting in verse 25.
Therefore, thus says the LordGod, now I will restore the
fortunes of Jacob and have mercyon the whole house of Israel,
(21:53):
and I will be jealous for myholy name.
They will forget their disgraceand all their treachery which
they perpetuated against me whenthey live securely on their own
land with no one to make themafraid.
When I bring them back from thepeoples and gather them from the
lands of their enemies, then Ishall be sanctified through them
(22:14):
in the sight of many nations.
Then they will know that I amthe Lord their God, because I
made them go into exile amongstthe nations, and then gathered
them again to their own land,and I will leave none of them
there any longer.
I will not hide my face fromthem any longer, for I will have
poured out my spirit on thehouse of Israel, declares the
(22:35):
Lord God.
Steve, was Israel deserving ofGod's blessing of bringing them
back to the land?
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
Israel has never been deserving of the land.
It's God's land, by the way.
It's land that God owns, and heis the one that has declared
he's going to give it to thenation of Israel.
But in earlier sessions, wetalked about you go back in
Deuteronomy.
Moses is very clear, you'regoing to go into the land.
(23:05):
God has given you this land, butyet you don't deserve it because
you're going to go and return toidol worship.
You're going to go and falterwith God and you're not going to
believe in him totally.
You're not going to doeverything that he tells you to
do.
You're not going to completelyobey his ordinances and
statutes.
If you don't do that, thenyou're not going to live long in
(23:27):
the land.
So it's clear that God is notblind to what the human nature
is.
And he's not blind as to Israelitself.
He knows that they are going tostruggle in following these
ordinances and statutes, but yetit's a story for us.
(23:48):
He also knows that whenever wehave individual salvation,
coming to a belief in JesusChrist as our Lord and Savior,
that we're still going tostruggle in this world with
these fleshly bodies.
We're going to have to make ituntil the end of our life.
What would we do if we can'tlook back and see how faithful
(24:10):
God is with the promises he madeto the nation of Israel?
What would we do with our lives?
How do we know and have theassurance that he's going to be
faithful to the promises thathe's given us of eternal life?
To me, that's a key factor forus to be able to understand.
And it's not about Israel, it'sabout God and his character and
(24:32):
his attributes and hisfaithfulness to us, to his
creation.
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
That last thing you just said, Steve, is really the
key to the whole interpretation,which is it's not about Israel.
All they did was have disbeliefand disobedience.
God was clear about that throughall of this book.
Again, that's why we spent somany chapters going over all of
the sin and disbelief anddisobedience of Israel.
(24:59):
God was quite graphic aboutgoing over their disbelief.
Yet he comes here at the end inthis restoration section and
says, I will bring them back.
To kind of summarize ourposition here, I want to go back
through and just pick out someplaces, mainly in chapters 36 to
39, show why we have theinterpretation we do.
(25:21):
If all we had was one verse,which is 3725, we would still
hold to a futurist position.
Chapter 37, verse 25 says thisthey will live on the land, he's
talking about Israel, they willlive on the land that I gave to
Jacob, my servant, in which yourfathers lived, they will live on
(25:45):
it, they and their sons andtheir sons' sons forever.
David, my servant, will be theirprince forever.
Well, if that's the only versewe had, we would still be forced
into a futurist position simplybecause he's talking about the
land of Jacob, it's not somekind of allegorized sense of the
(26:07):
church.
And he's talking about bringingthem back through all their
generations forever.
But to just summarize thesechapters, I have three or four
main points here that I wouldhold to be the key to
interpreting this restorationsection.
First of all, the Lordrepeatedly says, He is the one
(26:30):
that is going to restore Israel.
Returning Israel to the land ishis doing, not due to the belief
and disobedience of Israel.
Chapter 36, verse 11.
He also says, quote, I will putmy spirit within you and cause
you to walk in my statutes, 36,27.
So right there, it's not becauseof their belief, it's because
(26:53):
he's going to cause them to havea faith in Jesus Christ and
bring them back and have themobey.
Did they do that by the firstcentury?
No.
Jesus told them the Jewishleaders that they were
disobedient, dead men's bones.
Quote, I am not doing this foryour sake, declares the Lord God
in 36.32.
(27:14):
Quote, I will cause breath toenter you that you may come to
life, 37.5.
Quote, I will put my spiritwithin you, and you will come to
life, and I will place you onyour own land, 37.14.
There's no real way to interpretthat other than God going to
cause this to happen.
And he is the one that willbring faith to Israel.
(27:37):
Not only that, but the returnwill be permanent.
Quote, never again bereave themof children in 3612.
Quote, I will not let you hearinsults from the nations
anymore, nor quote, stumble anylonger in 36.15.
Quote, they will live on it,they and their sons and their
(27:58):
sons' sons forever.
3725.
David, my servant, will be theirprince forever in 3725.
Quote, I will make a covenant ofpeace with them.
It will be an everlastingcovenant, 3726.
Quote, I will place them andmultiply them and will set my
sanctuary in their midstforever.
(28:20):
3726.
Quote, I will not let my holyname be profaned anymore, 39.7.
Quote, when they live securelyon their own land with no one to
make them afraid, in 3926.
So Steve, has Israel been on theland securely with faith in
Jesus Christ forever?
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
They have not.
I'm still a little bit unsure,even though you've given all
those quotations there of what'sgoing to happen to the nation of
Israel.
Obviously, I'm saying thattongue in cheek because those
are just in these chapters herethat you've given a recap in
this middle section of Ezekiel.
It doesn't come into the otherplaces that God mentions.
(29:05):
He's going to do the same thingin other scriptures or other
verses of other books.
He mentioned the same type ofrestoration in Zechariah that he
was going to, he's going to cometo Israel's rescue and he was
going to fight for them, as ittalks about in Zechariah.
It does bewilder me how peoplecan continue to ignore these
(29:28):
verses.
Again, I think it comes back tothat they just don't deal with
these verses.
SPEAKER_01 (29:33):
But it keeps going.
All Israel's sin is going to beremoved.
Quote, I will save you from allyour uncleanness in 36 29.
Quote, I cleanse you from allyour iniquities, 36 33.
Manifest my holiness in them inthe sight of the nations in 28
25.
Israel in the first century,when Jesus came, was still quite
(29:58):
sinful.
Read what Jesus said to thePharisees, whitewashed tombs
full of dead men's bones.
They were quite disobedient tothe Lord.
Not only that, it's going to beon the original land of Israel.
Quote, they will live in theirland which I gave to my servant
Jacob, 28-25.
And quote, they will live on theland that I gave to Jacob, my
(30:19):
servant, in which your fatherslived, 3725.
And again, there's about sixplaces that also say the pagan
nations are going to recognizeGod.
The nations will know that I amthe Lord, 37.28.
Make myself known in the sightof many nations, and they will
know that I am the Lord.
And there's several more ofthose.
(30:41):
When it says the nations willknow that I am the Lord, it
can't be that they're stillrunning around denying that God
exists and denying that he's theone in charge.
With this, we have a very clearfuturist position.
The futurist, yes, has to takewooden shields and make those
(31:02):
into an allegory or a figurativelanguage for a future military
action.
But the other views really haveto torture the text.
I think there's also adistinction between the timing
of the war with Magog in Ezekieland the war with Magog in
Revelation.
SPEAKER_00 (31:22):
Is there not?
Yes, there is.
And before I talk about that, inour next session, our final
session of Ezekiel, just to addon to your last part there, in
chapter 45, God gives an outlineof the importions of the land to
each of the tribes of Israel.
We'll go over that in the nextsession, but it's clear once
(31:46):
again that God is not done withIsrael, and He's very specific
about it.
You've just gone through so manyverses, and again, we'll deal
with the chapter 45 in our nextsession.
But there is a debate amongstsome Christians in their
eschatological views, their endtime views, whether or not this
(32:07):
war that is mentioned here inEzekiel 38 and 39, Gog of Magog,
is the same thing that'smentioned at the end of
Revelation over in chapter 20,verses 7 through 10.
We can show that they'redifferent.
There's some distinctionsbetween both of them as to why
we can't say that this war isgoing to take place at the end
(32:31):
of the millennial period or themessianic kingdom.
That's one reason is because thetiming of it that talks about
here with Gog and Magog inEzekiel is prior to the
Messianic kingdom.
Whereas over in Revelationchapter 20, it's clearly the end
of the millennial kingdom.
It's at the very end there.
(32:52):
The participants are the leaderof Gog from Magog, and he's
allied with other nations ofPersia, Cush, Put, and other
nations in Ezekiel.
Whereas in Revelation, it'snations from the four corners of
the earth.
The state of Israel, they'reliving securely without walls in
Ezekiel, where in Revelation,they're going to be under the
(33:14):
rule of Jesus for a thousandyears.
The location is the mountains ofIsrael in Revelation.
It's the camp of the saints andbeloved city of Jerusalem.
The attack is initiated by God.
It says that he's going to puthooks in Gog's mouth and pull
him down over in Revelation.
It's Satan that is the leader ofthis war, Revelation 20.
(33:38):
It's the deception of thenations when he's loosed for a
little while.
We talked about the weaponryhere of horses, shields, and
bows.
There is no weaponry mentionedin Revelation.
The reason is to capture, spoil,and plunder in Ezekiel 38 and
39.
And the reason in Revelation isto destroy Jerusalem.
(34:00):
The aftermath, we just wentthrough it.
There's seven months of buryingthe dead and seven years to burn
the weapons.
In Revelation, it's immediatejudgment, followed by the great
white throne judgment.
The purpose is to sanctify God'sname among Israel and the
nations in Ezekiel, whereas inRevelation, it's to expose the
(34:21):
final rebellion and usher in theeternal state.
While Revelation talks aboutthis war of Gog and Magog, I
don't think we can call themboth the same war because of
just what we outlined here.
There's too many distinctionsbetween the two and the reason
for the for them both.
What do we do then with thetitle of the Gog Magog at the
(34:44):
end of Revelation?
Well, one way that we can lookat it is that at the end of
Revelation, this war fromEzekiel, as we've seen, is a
great, great devastation, sevenyears in order for the cleanup
to take place, the cords of man.
It's a war that has left animpact.
(35:08):
I think at the end ofRevelation, it's referred to
that's going to be that type ofa war.
It's going to be a Gog of Magogtype war that harkens back to
this war in Ezekiel.
One way that we could put itwould be that if somebody says
that they met a great defeat,many times they're saying that
that person met their Waterlooat whatever defeat that they
(35:31):
have.
Well, that's a reference toNapoleon, where he was defeated
at the Battle of Waterloo.
Whenever you mention it aboutsomebody else, they met their
Waterloo.
Obviously, they're not fightingat the battle place of Waterloo.
They're not recreating that.
It's a form of illustrating whattype of a war it was.
(35:52):
It was utter defeat forNapoleon.
Whenever you mention it wassomebody else's Waterloo, you're
just really relaying that it wasan utter defeat for them.
So I think that's how we canlook at it.
The Gog Magog at the end ofRevelation is not this Gog of
Magog that's mentioned here inEzekiel.
SPEAKER_01 (36:10):
To support that, we just point to the other things
in the book of Revelation thatpicks up things out of the Old
Testament and uses them inRevelation, such as Jezebel,
Babylon, things like that.
And in this case, Gog and Magog.
To wrap up chapter 39, Steve, wehave here this clear teaching
that God is going to bringIsrael back to the land.
(36:32):
He's going to cause them to havefaith in Jesus Christ, and he's
going to then put his spiritwithin them.
That will fulfill what is toldin Romans 11, 26, which is all
Israel will be saved.
We look forward to that gloriousday when they all worship around
(36:53):
the feet of Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (36:55):
Yes, we will.
And we're also going to lookforward to our final session in
the book of Ezekiel.
We're going to have someinteresting things to talk
about.
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
And we'll be there wrapping up that next time on
Reasoning Through the Bible.
SPEAKER_00 (37:07):
Thank you so much for watching and listening.
May God bless you.
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