May 29, 2025 • 30 mins
Curiosity fuels career growth—that’s the key takeaway from Ronna Ruppelt’s inspiring journey through law, insurance, non-profit leadership, and now partnership at Freeman Mathis & Gary, LLP. From breaking barriers as the only female attorney at her firm to leading major organizational change, Ronna shares how asking “why?” has driven her success.
In this episode, she explores the difference between knowledge, skills, and competencies—and how professionals can strategically develop each. She also opens up about the power of vulnerability, the value of continuous learning, and how to create a culture that supports growth and curiosity.
Whether you’re starting out or seeking fresh momentum, Ronna’s insights offer practical strategies and inspiration for lifelong learning and professional development.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do you get better at what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Time management assistance AI.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
Webinars, mentors, open platforms like Coursera
Live and virtual Live training.
Live course Online OnlineOnline Online Online.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Online Online Online Online Online Online Online
Online Online Online OnlineOnline Online.
Focus, communication,regulation and direction.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
REA.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Audio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Rana Ruppelt, thank you so much for being with me
and us on REA Audio.
We've been conversing a littlebit back and forth for gosh, it
seems like a month or two maybeto try to organize this, and the
reason why I asked you to be aguest on REA Audio was because,
near the beginning of the year,you had done an article that was
(00:47):
posted on LinkedIn called theValue of Continuous Learning,
and I imagine people can stillfind it on LinkedIn Very, very
interesting article, because ittouched so many different things
with regards to learning, bothin your employment, in your
personal life, and that's whatwe really like to do at REA
Audio is see how we can takebeneficial information that you
(01:10):
can use in your job but alsokind of let it flow over into
your life, and so I reallyappreciate you taking some time
to kind of talk about thatarticle and your thoughts on
continuous learning and see ifwe might help a couple people
that are listening on kind of onthe path to continuous learning
.
So, ronna, thank you, and canyou give us a little bit of
background?
So what do you do?
(01:30):
How did you get there and whatled you to write this article?
That's a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'll step back and let you go.
Yeah, it is.
First of all, thank you so muchfor having me.
I'm thrilled to be here.
So a little bit about mybackground, and I think it makes
sense from a chronologicalstandpoint.
I went to law school thinking Iwas going to be a trial lawyer
and soon realized and maybe itwas because of the times, maybe
(01:54):
not, but I found myselfrealizing that I wanted to have
more of a work-life balance andthat I looked at litigation and
trial lawyers back at the timeas a baby lawyer, as having
constant homework, and I saidyou know, whether it was mature
or not, I'm not sure, but Ireally didn't want to do that.
(02:16):
So I went in-house and spentmost of my career in-house at
carriers.
I worked at small regionalcarriers and large international
carriers.
I worked at small regionalcarriers and large international
carriers.
I worked at the largest carrierin the world at the time.
I was there and was always inthe claims legal space.
I was very fortunate that I gotpromoted relatively young.
(02:40):
I was 29 years old, sevenmonths pregnant and once I got
into management, really foundthat I enjoyed both utilizing my
legal skills and knowledge,along with my people skills, my
desire to help people becomesuccessful.
And then, as I advanced in mycareer, I had the opportunity to
(03:02):
do a lot more strategic typework, led at several system
integration, led severalorganizational transformations
and really enjoyed that.
And I then had an opportunityand this kind of goes to how I
look at continuous learning Ikept thinking about I want to
(03:26):
add something to my toolbox.
I've been doing a lot of verysimilar things for many years
and I just want to expand myknowledge, capability, skill set
and I happen to see a positionfor a general counsel role at an
insurance company and I don'tthink those come up real often
and I applied for that job andleft actually an amazing company
(03:50):
.
I had an incredible role, lovedthe people, but I wanted to do
something different from a skillset standpoint.
So I went to a small regionalcarrier as a general counsel for
a few years and then somethingelse arose again and had another
opportunity to have input atmore of an industry level.
(04:12):
So I went over to anassociation that is in the
claims legal space and was theCEO there and I did that for a
few years, developed a lot ofnew skills because it was a
not-for-profit something I'dnever done professionally before
(04:32):
I actually had done somevolunteer work in nonprofits,
but not professionally.
And then I got to the pointwhere I'm toward that later end
of my career versus earlier andI said you know, I worked at a
law firm when I was a babylawyer.
Things are very different now.
I spent all my career frombeing in a carrier looking out
(04:54):
at the industry.
I want to take that and kind offlip-flop it on its head.
So I was looking to go backinto a firm and utilize that
perspective that I had from somany years of being in-house.
So now I joined Freeman Mathisand Gary last summer came in as
a partner and responsible forclient relations, which is
(05:17):
really two components.
One is working with our clientsto make sure, along with some
other, a lot of folks franklyinternally, to make sure that
we're meeting or exceeding theirneeds and as many carriers as
they want as there are.
That's how they define theirsuccess.
Everyone does it a littledifferently and because of that
(05:39):
they have different expectationsfor their outside law firms.
So that's part of it.
Expectations for their outsidelaw firms, so that's part of it.
And then the other part isbusiness development is
utilizing my knowledge of theindustry, our data and external
data to identify opportunitiesfor the firm for growth.
So that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It sounds like to me that your desire to continue to
learn is kind of coupled with a,an adventurism.
It's something right, you know,having the having the um, the
guts really to go from one roleto another that aren't
necessarily the exact same role.
It doesn't sound like that wassomething that was done, uh,
(06:22):
necessarily for just personaladvancement, but it sounds like
it's a sense of adventure.
It's a sense of wanting to knowmore and wanting to grow within
you as a human being and inyour chosen career.
And what I found wasinteresting in your LinkedIn
profile it says that you are theperson who's always asked why?
(06:44):
Yeah, so you?
It sounds like that's instilledin you as well.
And you know, which leads me tokind of the question around the
continuous learning.
Do you feel like and we'll getmore into the specifics of the
piece in a few minutes but I'mjust kind of curious with your
approach to learning and youradventurous kind of personality.
If there's somebody who mightnot have that kind of
(07:08):
adventurous personality, who maybe happy, just kind of doing
their own thing and may notthink about continuous learning,
but yet kind of has a desire togrow and do more, are there
things that people like that cando to kind of spark that
adventure or spark that desirefor continuous learning.
(07:29):
Have you had any experiencewith folks like that?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I, you know, I've never really thought of it the
way you approach the question,but it makes sense and I think
the answer is yes, and I thinkfor people themselves, how to
develop that sense of adventure,their curiosity.
You know, I think a lot of itcomes from really being
(07:53):
self-aware and understanding.
Where do we derive passion?
And it's really interestingbecause probably toward the end
of my first third of my career,I had a manager actually say to
me that you bring too muchpassion to the table.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Too much passion.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Too much passion, and I've never really understood
that to this day, because Ithink I know when to step back.
So I'm not it's not that Idon't bulldoze, I don't, you
know, I'd like to think I'm aneffective listener, but I think
that when there are all thingsin all of our roles that we love
(08:33):
doing and other things that wedon't enjoy doing quite as much,
so I think it's really thatself-awareness and understanding
what that is and, from amanagement perspective,
recognizing that in people andbeing able to put them in
situations where they have theopportunity to utilize those
(08:55):
things that really give them themost joy and maybe that's the
word is joy versus passion, notsure.
And then, from a self-awarenessstandpoint, I think it's really
understanding, reading,listening, learning, taking that
environment around you and thendoing something with it again
(09:18):
that truly gives you joy.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned about a culture of
learning in certainorganizations, right.
Can you talk a?
You mentioned about a cultureof learning in certain
organizations, right.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat that culture of learning
means, because it sounds likewe're kind of building towards
that with people's desires andpointing them in the right
direction at an organization,right.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so let's start back.
I want to make sure that when Italk about continuous learning
for myself as someone that'stalking about it what I think
about is it's actively seekingknowledge, it's developing new
skills, refining your skills andthen having competencies.
(10:00):
So that's really, for me, thestarting point.
So when I think about a companythat prioritizes those types of
things with their employees,that's the starting point of a
culture of learning.
They provide opportunities fortraining, both formal and
informal.
(10:21):
They have mentoring, they haveERGs, those types of things
where really I can take it andtalk about inclusion, where
people feel included, connectedto their employer, and that also
helps retention.
Long-term Knowledge sharing,where there are cross-functional
(10:44):
teams.
There are some companies thatactually move people to be
either individual contributorsor management people in
different functional areas andfrom the outside looking in.
You sometimes look in that andsay why would that person go and
be managing that type offunction when they don't know
(11:05):
anything about it?
But it's that opportunity toexpand and to grow.
And there are certain skillsets.
You may not have that specifictechnical knowledge, but you
have other skill sets thatabsolutely are transferable.
And then there are also thethings that a company that is a
culture of learning, isencouraging people to look for
(11:27):
other opportunities within thecompany.
When you have good employees,you don't want them having to
leave that company.
You really want to be able tokeep them.
So you do things like you haveopen internal application
process, internal applicationprocess.
(11:48):
You have it from a standpointof we want you to talk to your
manager so that your manager canhelp coach you and guide you as
you're applying for another jobin that organization, and it
used to be very much thatmanagers would take things very
personally.
I always was very excited aboutit and wanted to help people
achieve their professional goals.
So again, a company that doesthat drives the culture of
(12:10):
continuous learning and thenfinally, providing reward and
recognition.
I think that is you supportwhat you're saying.
So all of those together, Ithink, is the starting point of
a culture of learning at anorganization.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
So very good guidance steps for someone who is at a
company that might want to startcreating a culture of learning.
So let's put yourself in theplace of an employee that might
be listening right now and it'slike, boy, that would be awesome
, I'd love to work at a placelike that.
How does someone in thatposition start the spark to a
culture of learning at abusiness?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's a great question because there are very
few of us that ever areimportant to us, that we believe
can help us flourish in ourorganization.
So the odds are, if we believethat there are others that
believe that culture of learningis part of what we want to
(13:23):
bring into an organization, westart out by modeling those
values and those behaviors.
Ourselves Do those things thatwe personally believe and others
will see.
And along with that, listeningis super important.
Listening is so much moreimportant than talking.
(13:44):
Providing feedback andsuggestions for things that can
be done in the organization,share ideas, you know, in those
cross-functional teams, utilizethose opportunities or suggest
(14:08):
those opportunities.
There are very few things in acompany that doesn't cross
several functional areas andbringing cross-functional teams
together to solve problemsreally gets to the best solution
most of the time.
Supporting others in theorganization, cheering them on,
developing relationships acrossyour individual silo All of
those things, I think, drivethat culture of learning.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And I think it elevates that person to
potentially move into aleadership role.
All those things you talkedabout are what good leaders do
when they come into a company.
You know creating thoserelationships and you know
looking what other people aredoing and try to try to
understand their roles thingslike that as well.
One of the things that youmentioned in your article is
(14:53):
people seeking to activelyexpand their knowledge, skills
and competencies Right, and youkind of touched on all those
things in that past explanationand we were kind of chatting
before we started recording.
You know, like, the differencesbetween, like, a knowledge, a
skill and a competency, so canyou talk a little bit about how
you define those things?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Sure.
So the knowledge is the knowingand that's you know.
That's the learnings that youget, both through education,
through your experiences, yourinteractions with people.
It's accumulating information.
You then have the skills, whichis really converting your
(15:33):
knowledge into actions, andwhether it's a physical skill or
whether it's a skill in how youcommunicate or interact with
people, it's a skill, and howyou communicate or interact with
people it's that.
Critical thinking and usingthat knowledge in a way that it
becomes actionable is the skill,and that competency, then, is
(15:57):
actually applying it alltogether.
So you know what to do theskills are, or you know what it
is.
Is the knowledge the skill isyou know what to do, then the
competency is doing it,utilizing both that knowledge
and that skill together.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So do you feel like you talk also in your piece
about curiosity skills, and Ithink we talked a little bit.
You explained a little bitabout that when you explained
about how an individual whowants to kind of grow within an
organization and create thatculture, but can you talk a
little bit about the curiosityskills that you said kind of
define a curious learner?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, so it's really interesting.
I have a two-year-old grandsonand he's talking up a storm now
and everything is pointing atsomething and saying what's that
, what's that, what's that?
Nonstop, and that's really, inthe most basic sense, how I
would define curiosity.
(16:58):
I remember being a child andasking my parents, and
especially my father, all thetime well, tell me about this.
What does that mean?
And it's just, it's that desireto get more and more
information and I don't know.
I think there's something about.
(17:19):
I think you can build that.
I think some of us are bornwith that thirst for knowledge.
It was shown to me as a child.
My parents were avid readers.
I became an avid reader.
So I think when you're youngerthat's how you learn a lot from
a formal standpoint.
And it's interesting becauseeven today, one of the things I
(17:42):
do which is probably not healthy, especially in these days
before I go to bed, I read thenews I save up to the end of the
day.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Oh boy I read it online.
And you sleep okay.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And I sleep well.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So what.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I do is I read a publication that is known to be
more left-wing and then I readanother publication that's known
to be more right-wing, becauseI want to find quote-unquote the
truth somewhere in there, and Iknow that there are nuggets of
(18:15):
things that will satisfy myknowledge for figuring out
really what is going on withthat how I have utilized that in
the workplace is reallyinteresting.
And again, I don't know if it'sjust my nature, but for those
that don't really recognize it,I think it's important to learn
(18:37):
that this is something that canbe learned.
I started as a carrier in theclaims legal role.
I didn't know much aboutinsurance, other than we had car
insurance and my father hadbeen very sick.
So I knew there was disabilityinsurance and I, you know I knew
it was out there, but I didn'tunderstand how it works.
(18:59):
You know I knew what thepurpose was, but so much I
didn't know.
And I came into a company thatwas a growing organization and I
wanted to know and understandall of the functional areas of
that insurance company.
It happened to be a monolineauto carriers, so there wasn't
(19:20):
as much complexity as some ofthe other carriers have.
But I quickly started askingquestions and observing, because
so many things impact a claim,so many things impacted the
legal area, that I had to learnit.
But I also wanted to learn it,learn it, and suddenly I found
(19:45):
myself getting asked questionsabout policy services and things
like requirements aroundsending out cancellation notices
to our insurers, and I had tolearn.
And it was a company that wasvery technologically advanced,
so we had to talk through how dowe convert things to be able to
do it meeting our requirements,but through technology.
So I learned about productmanagement and it made me a more
(20:11):
valuable employee and as Iprogressed I brought a lot of
different perspectives and Ithink that really helps set my
foundation as I move forward inmy career.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah, that's great that you had that background of
that curiosity.
I feel like sometimes and pleasedisagree with me if you do that
there's barriers put up toquestioning things.
I can you know, sometimesthere's some fear because either
you've been at a look at anemployer for a certain amount of
time and you feel like, well, Ishould know that already, so
I'm not going to ask thatquestion, or you're new to a
(20:47):
place and you're the new personand you don't want to ask too
many questions because you wantto look like you know what the
heck's going on, when quitehonestly and I'll just be honest
, and I would imagine 90 percentof us walking around this world
really don't know what's goingon as much as we look like we
think we know what's going onright, whether it's work or home
or whatever.
I thought by 50 I'd have it allfigured out, and I know less
(21:10):
now than I knew when I was 20years old.
So are there ways to overcomethose barriers?
Do you just have to say youknow what, I don't care what
people think, I'm just going toask, or are there strategies
that you're aware of that canhelp people overcome kind of
that resistance that you have toask questions?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's an interesting question and I'll get very open
and honest with you.
I actually early in my careerit was very much I don't care
what people think.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Not such a good attitude to have to be
successful and it took me alittle while to understand that,
frankly, because it is veryimportant what people think.
But you still should askquestions and I'm still.
I will be the first person toadmit I don't know something.
(21:57):
I'll be the first person toadmit I'm wrong, and that
doesn't matter if I'm talking toa subordinate, a peer or a
superior.
I just I guess I have enoughconfidence that I know that not
everyone knows everything and weall have questions and if I
happen to be the person thatspeaks up asking the question,
(22:20):
there's 10 other people in theroom around me that also don't
know the answer and they'rehappy that I'm the one that
actually asks the question, sothey don't have to.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah, a little bit of humility really goes a long way
in this world, I think, forpeople to you know.
Developing relationships andreally personalizing yourself
with other people Exactly whatyou said.
I think you know other peopleare thinking the same thing and
they're like, whew, good thingshe had the guts to say it Right
, that's awesome.
So your profile was wasrecently featured in on workers
(22:53):
compensation dot com as part ofWomen's History Month, so
congratulations.
I think Dr Claire wrote a verynice piece on you.
Dr Claire is a guest of ourshow many times.
She's wonderful.
We're so glad to be close withher as well, and I read that
piece.
It was.
It was fantastic, socongratulations on that.
I'm so glad I came across thatthe other day that in this day
(23:17):
and age and I know it wasn'tthat long ago that you were
actually asked to not enter acompany event through a certain
entrance because you were awoman.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat experience?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I told this
story on stage and the way Ipresented it.
I wanted people to feel what Iactually felt and I did not say
it was me until afterwards.
But let me tell you the story.
So I worked at a law firm whenI got up.
(23:50):
Well, I actually started atthis law firm in law school and
stayed on as a lawyer when I gotout and it was an insurance
defense firm with 45 lawyers andI was the only female attorney.
So that in itself wasinteresting A lot of learning
there, that's for sure.
And we were walking over to oneof those old institutions that's
(24:16):
downtown in a city that at somepoint in time was very
restricted and it has one ofthose fancy names that you see
them in a lot of differentcities, but it's where the
business elite would go andmingle with each other.
And we were going over to afirm lunch and I was walking
(24:39):
over with some of my peers Again, I'm the only woman over there
and I remember and this wasalmost 40 years ago and I
remember walking up to the frontentrance.
I had never been there, eventhough I lived in the city my
whole life at that point in timeand it was just this beautiful
(25:01):
wood carved double doors.
There was a doorman at the doorand we walk up the steps,
people in front of me arewalking in.
The doorman stops me and saysI'm sorry, you can't go in this
door.
And I looked and like it didconnect what was going on.
(25:21):
Like, I beg your pardon, it'slike if you go out to the left
and go down the side of thebuilding, there's another
entrance and that's the doorthat you have to go in.
And I don't remember what Isaid but knowing me, I made some
kind of smart comment, walkedback down the steps and walked
(25:45):
around to the side and I doremember my peers were a little
confused but no one really saidanything.
And it was just one of thosethings that if we spoke up it
wasn't going to change anything.
That was just how that placedid it.
So it was interesting and thatfeeling in the pit of my stomach
(26:10):
of exclusion.
I vowed I would never causeanyone to feel like that in the
workplace or in my personal life.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, we talked a little bit before we were
recording also about thedifferences in book smarts and
experience smarts, and they'reboth forms of learning right and
although I'm sure at thatmoment there were a hundred
different emotions going on inyour mind and head, I'm sure you
can.
It sounds like you can comeaway with that obviously as a
(26:43):
learning experience of how totreat other people.
I'm sorry that you had to gothrough that, but on the outside
or you know, at the end of itit looks like it's.
It helped you in a certain in acertain way as well.
You talk also about your pivotand push forward approach.
Does this kind of, does thatkind of, stem from this
(27:04):
experience and others, or whatdoes?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
that mean, I would say, and the others.
I was very close with my father.
He passed away very, very youngafter a lengthy illness, and I
was young and you can't shrivelup and die when you have loss.
I'm very much a glass-half-fullperson.
I also judge others based onhow I judge myself, which is I
(27:32):
am so far from perfect.
It's not funny, and what Ialways would say to people, and
I still say when I becomeperfect, that's how I will judge
others Right.
So I think that, in addition tobeing someone that's very goal
oriented, you just have to pivotand adapt.
You just you move forward.
(27:53):
You look at the learnings.
It's interesting because evenwhen I interview people, I
always ask them about a veryprofessional accomplishment that
they're very proud of, and thenI ask them about their biggest
mistake and what learning theygot from that, because to me
(28:14):
that's almost more important.
And people say so many differentthings, no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
What kind of advice?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
would you give somebody starting in either the
legal or insurance world today?
All right, number one, be yourauthentic self.
All of us brings differentthings to the table, and we
should be very proud of whateach of us bring.
What I talked about before.
Figure out what drives yourpassion, target positions where
(29:05):
you think you'll be able to flexthose things that you love
doing.
Relationships matter and, again, it took me a while to learn
that relationships matter, thatit is important to care what
other people think.
Yeah, have integrity, be kindwhich is the most important
(29:29):
thing and have fun.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's awesome, Ronna .
I hope you come back and talkto us again.
This was such an enjoyableconversation.
I wish we were able to havegotten this done like a month
ago.
We've both been you know youtravel a lot, I've been
traveling a lot as well, andwe've finally been able to get
together.
It was truly a pleasure talkingto you and thank you so much
for your time.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'd love to come back anytime.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Thanks for listening to REA Audio.
I hope we opened up your braina bit and helped you be better
at what you do.
Please follow us on Spotify,apple Podcasts, stitcher, amazon
Music or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
How do you get better at what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Time management assistance AI.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
Webinars, mentors, open platforms like Coursera
Live and virtual Live training.
Live course Online OnlineOnline Online Online.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Online Online Online Online Online Online Online
Online Online Online OnlineOnline Online.
Focus, communication,regulation and direction.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
REA.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Audio.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Rana Ruppelt, thank you so much for being with me
and us on REA Audio.
We've been conversing a littlebit back and forth for gosh, it
seems like a month or two maybeto try to organize this, and the
reason why I asked you to be aguest on REA Audio was because,
near the beginning of the year,you had done an article that was
(00:47):
posted on LinkedIn called theValue of Continuous Learning,
and I imagine people can stillfind it on LinkedIn Very, very
interesting article, because ittouched so many different things
with regards to learning, bothin your employment, in your
personal life, and that's whatwe really like to do at REA
Audio is see how we can takebeneficial information that you
(01:10):
can use in your job but alsokind of let it flow over into
your life, and so I reallyappreciate you taking some time
to kind of talk about thatarticle and your thoughts on
continuous learning and see ifwe might help a couple people
that are listening on kind of onthe path to continuous learning
.
So, ronna, thank you, and canyou give us a little bit of
background?
So what do you do?
(01:30):
How did you get there and whatled you to write this article?
That's a whole lot.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'll step back and let you go.
Yeah, it is.
First of all, thank you so muchfor having me.
I'm thrilled to be here.
So a little bit about mybackground, and I think it makes
sense from a chronologicalstandpoint.
I went to law school thinking Iwas going to be a trial lawyer
and soon realized and maybe itwas because of the times, maybe
(01:54):
not, but I found myselfrealizing that I wanted to have
more of a work-life balance andthat I looked at litigation and
trial lawyers back at the timeas a baby lawyer, as having
constant homework, and I saidyou know, whether it was mature
or not, I'm not sure, but Ireally didn't want to do that.
(02:16):
So I went in-house and spentmost of my career in-house at
carriers.
I worked at small regionalcarriers and large international
carriers.
I worked at small regionalcarriers and large international
carriers.
I worked at the largest carrierin the world at the time.
I was there and was always inthe claims legal space.
I was very fortunate that I gotpromoted relatively young.
(02:40):
I was 29 years old, sevenmonths pregnant and once I got
into management, really foundthat I enjoyed both utilizing my
legal skills and knowledge,along with my people skills, my
desire to help people becomesuccessful.
And then, as I advanced in mycareer, I had the opportunity to
(03:02):
do a lot more strategic typework, led at several system
integration, led severalorganizational transformations
and really enjoyed that.
And I then had an opportunityand this kind of goes to how I
look at continuous learning Ikept thinking about I want to
(03:26):
add something to my toolbox.
I've been doing a lot of verysimilar things for many years
and I just want to expand myknowledge, capability, skill set
and I happen to see a positionfor a general counsel role at an
insurance company and I don'tthink those come up real often
and I applied for that job andleft actually an amazing company
(03:50):
.
I had an incredible role, lovedthe people, but I wanted to do
something different from a skillset standpoint.
So I went to a small regionalcarrier as a general counsel for
a few years and then somethingelse arose again and had another
opportunity to have input atmore of an industry level.
(04:12):
So I went over to anassociation that is in the
claims legal space and was theCEO there and I did that for a
few years, developed a lot ofnew skills because it was a
not-for-profit something I'dnever done professionally before
(04:32):
I actually had done somevolunteer work in nonprofits,
but not professionally.
And then I got to the pointwhere I'm toward that later end
of my career versus earlier andI said you know, I worked at a
law firm when I was a babylawyer.
Things are very different now.
I spent all my career frombeing in a carrier looking out
(04:54):
at the industry.
I want to take that and kind offlip-flop it on its head.
So I was looking to go backinto a firm and utilize that
perspective that I had from somany years of being in-house.
So now I joined Freeman Mathisand Gary last summer came in as
a partner and responsible forclient relations, which is
(05:17):
really two components.
One is working with our clientsto make sure, along with some
other, a lot of folks franklyinternally, to make sure that
we're meeting or exceeding theirneeds and as many carriers as
they want as there are.
That's how they define theirsuccess.
Everyone does it a littledifferently and because of that
(05:39):
they have different expectationsfor their outside law firms.
So that's part of it.
Expectations for their outsidelaw firms, so that's part of it.
And then the other part isbusiness development is
utilizing my knowledge of theindustry, our data and external
data to identify opportunitiesfor the firm for growth.
So that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It sounds like to me that your desire to continue to
learn is kind of coupled with a,an adventurism.
It's something right, you know,having the having the um, the
guts really to go from one roleto another that aren't
necessarily the exact same role.
It doesn't sound like that wassomething that was done, uh,
(06:22):
necessarily for just personaladvancement, but it sounds like
it's a sense of adventure.
It's a sense of wanting to knowmore and wanting to grow within
you as a human being and inyour chosen career.
And what I found wasinteresting in your LinkedIn
profile it says that you are theperson who's always asked why?
(06:44):
Yeah, so you?
It sounds like that's instilledin you as well.
And you know, which leads me tokind of the question around the
continuous learning.
Do you feel like and we'll getmore into the specifics of the
piece in a few minutes but I'mjust kind of curious with your
approach to learning and youradventurous kind of personality.
If there's somebody who mightnot have that kind of
(07:08):
adventurous personality, who maybe happy, just kind of doing
their own thing and may notthink about continuous learning,
but yet kind of has a desire togrow and do more, are there
things that people like that cando to kind of spark that
adventure or spark that desirefor continuous learning.
(07:29):
Have you had any experiencewith folks like that?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I, you know, I've never really thought of it the
way you approach the question,but it makes sense and I think
the answer is yes, and I thinkfor people themselves, how to
develop that sense of adventure,their curiosity.
You know, I think a lot of itcomes from really being
(07:53):
self-aware and understanding.
Where do we derive passion?
And it's really interestingbecause probably toward the end
of my first third of my career,I had a manager actually say to
me that you bring too muchpassion to the table.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Too much passion.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Too much passion, and I've never really understood
that to this day, because Ithink I know when to step back.
So I'm not it's not that Idon't bulldoze, I don't, you
know, I'd like to think I'm aneffective listener, but I think
that when there are all thingsin all of our roles that we love
(08:33):
doing and other things that wedon't enjoy doing quite as much,
so I think it's really thatself-awareness and understanding
what that is and, from amanagement perspective,
recognizing that in people andbeing able to put them in
situations where they have theopportunity to utilize those
(08:55):
things that really give them themost joy and maybe that's the
word is joy versus passion, notsure.
And then, from a self-awarenessstandpoint, I think it's really
understanding, reading,listening, learning, taking that
environment around you and thendoing something with it again
(09:18):
that truly gives you joy.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
Yeah, and you know you mentioned about a culture of
learning in certainorganizations, right.
Can you talk a?
You mentioned about a cultureof learning in certain
organizations, right.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat that culture of learning
means, because it sounds likewe're kind of building towards
that with people's desires andpointing them in the right
direction at an organization,right.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so let's start back.
I want to make sure that when Italk about continuous learning
for myself as someone that'stalking about it what I think
about is it's actively seekingknowledge, it's developing new
skills, refining your skills andthen having competencies.
(10:00):
So that's really, for me, thestarting point.
So when I think about a companythat prioritizes those types of
things with their employees,that's the starting point of a
culture of learning.
They provide opportunities fortraining, both formal and
informal.
(10:21):
They have mentoring, they haveERGs, those types of things
where really I can take it andtalk about inclusion, where
people feel included, connectedto their employer, and that also
helps retention.
Long-term Knowledge sharing,where there are cross-functional
(10:44):
teams.
There are some companies thatactually move people to be
either individual contributorsor management people in
different functional areas andfrom the outside looking in.
You sometimes look in that andsay why would that person go and
be managing that type offunction when they don't know
(11:05):
anything about it?
But it's that opportunity toexpand and to grow.
And there are certain skillsets.
You may not have that specifictechnical knowledge, but you
have other skill sets thatabsolutely are transferable.
And then there are also thethings that a company that is a
culture of learning, isencouraging people to look for
(11:27):
other opportunities within thecompany.
When you have good employees,you don't want them having to
leave that company.
You really want to be able tokeep them.
So you do things like you haveopen internal application
process, internal applicationprocess.
(11:48):
You have it from a standpointof we want you to talk to your
manager so that your manager canhelp coach you and guide you as
you're applying for another jobin that organization, and it
used to be very much thatmanagers would take things very
personally.
I always was very excited aboutit and wanted to help people
achieve their professional goals.
So again, a company that doesthat drives the culture of
(12:10):
continuous learning and thenfinally, providing reward and
recognition.
I think that is you supportwhat you're saying.
So all of those together, Ithink, is the starting point of
a culture of learning at anorganization.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
So very good guidance steps for someone who is at a
company that might want to startcreating a culture of learning.
So let's put yourself in theplace of an employee that might
be listening right now and it'slike, boy, that would be awesome
, I'd love to work at a placelike that.
How does someone in thatposition start the spark to a
culture of learning at abusiness?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
That's a great question because there are very
few of us that ever areimportant to us, that we believe
can help us flourish in ourorganization.
So the odds are, if we believethat there are others that
believe that culture of learningis part of what we want to
(13:23):
bring into an organization, westart out by modeling those
values and those behaviors.
Ourselves Do those things thatwe personally believe and others
will see.
And along with that, listeningis super important.
Listening is so much moreimportant than talking.
(13:44):
Providing feedback andsuggestions for things that can
be done in the organization,share ideas, you know, in those
cross-functional teams, utilizethose opportunities or suggest
(14:08):
those opportunities.
There are very few things in acompany that doesn't cross
several functional areas andbringing cross-functional teams
together to solve problemsreally gets to the best solution
most of the time.
Supporting others in theorganization, cheering them on,
developing relationships acrossyour individual silo All of
those things, I think, drivethat culture of learning.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
And I think it elevates that person to
potentially move into aleadership role.
All those things you talkedabout are what good leaders do
when they come into a company.
You know creating thoserelationships and you know
looking what other people aredoing and try to try to
understand their roles thingslike that as well.
One of the things that youmentioned in your article is
(14:53):
people seeking to activelyexpand their knowledge, skills
and competencies Right, and youkind of touched on all those
things in that past explanationand we were kind of chatting
before we started recording.
You know, like, the differencesbetween, like, a knowledge, a
skill and a competency, so canyou talk a little bit about how
you define those things?
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Sure.
So the knowledge is the knowingand that's you know.
That's the learnings that youget, both through education,
through your experiences, yourinteractions with people.
It's accumulating information.
You then have the skills, whichis really converting your
(15:33):
knowledge into actions, andwhether it's a physical skill or
whether it's a skill in how youcommunicate or interact with
people, it's a skill, and howyou communicate or interact with
people it's that.
Critical thinking and usingthat knowledge in a way that it
becomes actionable is the skill,and that competency, then, is
(15:57):
actually applying it alltogether.
So you know what to do theskills are, or you know what it
is.
Is the knowledge the skill isyou know what to do, then the
competency is doing it,utilizing both that knowledge
and that skill together.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
So do you feel like you talk also in your piece
about curiosity skills, and Ithink we talked a little bit.
You explained a little bitabout that when you explained
about how an individual whowants to kind of grow within an
organization and create thatculture, but can you talk a
little bit about the curiosityskills that you said kind of
define a curious learner?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Yeah, so it's really interesting.
I have a two-year-old grandsonand he's talking up a storm now
and everything is pointing atsomething and saying what's that
, what's that, what's that?
Nonstop, and that's really, inthe most basic sense, how I
would define curiosity.
(16:58):
I remember being a child andasking my parents, and
especially my father, all thetime well, tell me about this.
What does that mean?
And it's just, it's that desireto get more and more
information and I don't know.
I think there's something about.
(17:19):
I think you can build that.
I think some of us are bornwith that thirst for knowledge.
It was shown to me as a child.
My parents were avid readers.
I became an avid reader.
So I think when you're youngerthat's how you learn a lot from
a formal standpoint.
And it's interesting becauseeven today, one of the things I
(17:42):
do which is probably not healthy, especially in these days
before I go to bed, I read thenews I save up to the end of the
day.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Oh boy I read it online.
And you sleep okay.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And I sleep well.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So what.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I do is I read a publication that is known to be
more left-wing and then I readanother publication that's known
to be more right-wing, becauseI want to find quote-unquote the
truth somewhere in there, and Iknow that there are nuggets of
(18:15):
things that will satisfy myknowledge for figuring out
really what is going on withthat how I have utilized that in
the workplace is reallyinteresting.
And again, I don't know if it'sjust my nature, but for those
that don't really recognize it,I think it's important to learn
(18:37):
that this is something that canbe learned.
I started as a carrier in theclaims legal role.
I didn't know much aboutinsurance, other than we had car
insurance and my father hadbeen very sick.
So I knew there was disabilityinsurance and I, you know I knew
it was out there, but I didn'tunderstand how it works.
(18:59):
You know I knew what thepurpose was, but so much I
didn't know.
And I came into a company thatwas a growing organization and I
wanted to know and understandall of the functional areas of
that insurance company.
It happened to be a monolineauto carriers, so there wasn't
(19:20):
as much complexity as some ofthe other carriers have.
But I quickly started askingquestions and observing, because
so many things impact a claim,so many things impacted the
legal area, that I had to learnit.
But I also wanted to learn it,learn it, and suddenly I found
(19:45):
myself getting asked questionsabout policy services and things
like requirements aroundsending out cancellation notices
to our insurers, and I had tolearn.
And it was a company that wasvery technologically advanced,
so we had to talk through how dowe convert things to be able to
do it meeting our requirements,but through technology.
So I learned about productmanagement and it made me a more
(20:11):
valuable employee and as Iprogressed I brought a lot of
different perspectives and Ithink that really helps set my
foundation as I move forward inmy career.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah, that's great that you had that background of
that curiosity.
I feel like sometimes and pleasedisagree with me if you do that
there's barriers put up toquestioning things.
I can you know, sometimesthere's some fear because either
you've been at a look at anemployer for a certain amount of
time and you feel like, well, Ishould know that already, so
I'm not going to ask thatquestion, or you're new to a
(20:47):
place and you're the new personand you don't want to ask too
many questions because you wantto look like you know what the
heck's going on, when quitehonestly and I'll just be honest
, and I would imagine 90 percentof us walking around this world
really don't know what's goingon as much as we look like we
think we know what's going onright, whether it's work or home
or whatever.
I thought by 50 I'd have it allfigured out, and I know less
(21:10):
now than I knew when I was 20years old.
So are there ways to overcomethose barriers?
Do you just have to say youknow what, I don't care what
people think, I'm just going toask, or are there strategies
that you're aware of that canhelp people overcome kind of
that resistance that you have toask questions?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's an interesting question and I'll get very open
and honest with you.
I actually early in my careerit was very much I don't care
what people think.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Not such a good attitude to have to be
successful and it took me alittle while to understand that,
frankly, because it is veryimportant what people think.
But you still should askquestions and I'm still.
I will be the first person toadmit I don't know something.
(21:57):
I'll be the first person toadmit I'm wrong, and that
doesn't matter if I'm talking toa subordinate, a peer or a
superior.
I just I guess I have enoughconfidence that I know that not
everyone knows everything and weall have questions and if I
happen to be the person thatspeaks up asking the question,
(22:20):
there's 10 other people in theroom around me that also don't
know the answer and they'rehappy that I'm the one that
actually asks the question, sothey don't have to.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah, a little bit of humility really goes a long way
in this world, I think, forpeople to you know.
Developing relationships andreally personalizing yourself
with other people Exactly whatyou said.
I think you know other peopleare thinking the same thing and
they're like, whew, good thingshe had the guts to say it Right
, that's awesome.
So your profile was wasrecently featured in on workers
(22:53):
compensation dot com as part ofWomen's History Month, so
congratulations.
I think Dr Claire wrote a verynice piece on you.
Dr Claire is a guest of ourshow many times.
She's wonderful.
We're so glad to be close withher as well, and I read that
piece.
It was.
It was fantastic, socongratulations on that.
I'm so glad I came across thatthe other day that in this day
(23:17):
and age and I know it wasn'tthat long ago that you were
actually asked to not enter acompany event through a certain
entrance because you were awoman.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat experience?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Yeah, and it's interesting because I told this
story on stage and the way Ipresented it.
I wanted people to feel what Iactually felt and I did not say
it was me until afterwards.
But let me tell you the story.
So I worked at a law firm whenI got up.
(23:50):
Well, I actually started atthis law firm in law school and
stayed on as a lawyer when I gotout and it was an insurance
defense firm with 45 lawyers andI was the only female attorney.
So that in itself wasinteresting A lot of learning
there, that's for sure.
And we were walking over to oneof those old institutions that's
(24:16):
downtown in a city that at somepoint in time was very
restricted and it has one ofthose fancy names that you see
them in a lot of differentcities, but it's where the
business elite would go andmingle with each other.
And we were going over to afirm lunch and I was walking
(24:39):
over with some of my peers Again, I'm the only woman over there
and I remember and this wasalmost 40 years ago and I
remember walking up to the frontentrance.
I had never been there, eventhough I lived in the city my
whole life at that point in timeand it was just this beautiful
(25:01):
wood carved double doors.
There was a doorman at the doorand we walk up the steps,
people in front of me arewalking in.
The doorman stops me and saysI'm sorry, you can't go in this
door.
And I looked and like it didconnect what was going on.
(25:21):
Like, I beg your pardon, it'slike if you go out to the left
and go down the side of thebuilding, there's another
entrance and that's the doorthat you have to go in.
And I don't remember what Isaid but knowing me, I made some
kind of smart comment, walkedback down the steps and walked
(25:45):
around to the side and I doremember my peers were a little
confused but no one really saidanything.
And it was just one of thosethings that if we spoke up it
wasn't going to change anything.
That was just how that placedid it.
So it was interesting and thatfeeling in the pit of my stomach
(26:10):
of exclusion.
I vowed I would never causeanyone to feel like that in the
workplace or in my personal life.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, we talked a little bit before we were
recording also about thedifferences in book smarts and
experience smarts, and they'reboth forms of learning right and
although I'm sure at thatmoment there were a hundred
different emotions going on inyour mind and head, I'm sure you
can.
It sounds like you can comeaway with that obviously as a
(26:43):
learning experience of how totreat other people.
I'm sorry that you had to gothrough that, but on the outside
or you know, at the end of itit looks like it's.
It helped you in a certain in acertain way as well.
You talk also about your pivotand push forward approach.
Does this kind of, does thatkind of, stem from this
(27:04):
experience and others, or whatdoes?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
that mean, I would say, and the others.
I was very close with my father.
He passed away very, very youngafter a lengthy illness, and I
was young and you can't shrivelup and die when you have loss.
I'm very much a glass-half-fullperson.
I also judge others based onhow I judge myself, which is I
(27:32):
am so far from perfect.
It's not funny, and what Ialways would say to people, and
I still say when I becomeperfect, that's how I will judge
others Right.
So I think that, in addition tobeing someone that's very goal
oriented, you just have to pivotand adapt.
You just you move forward.
(27:53):
You look at the learnings.
It's interesting because evenwhen I interview people, I
always ask them about a veryprofessional accomplishment that
they're very proud of, and thenI ask them about their biggest
mistake and what learning theygot from that, because to me
(28:14):
that's almost more important.
And people say so many differentthings, no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
What kind of advice?
Speaker 2 (28:45):
would you give somebody starting in either the
legal or insurance world today?
All right, number one, be yourauthentic self.
All of us brings differentthings to the table, and we
should be very proud of whateach of us bring.
What I talked about before.
Figure out what drives yourpassion, target positions where
(29:05):
you think you'll be able to flexthose things that you love
doing.
Relationships matter and, again, it took me a while to learn
that relationships matter, thatit is important to care what
other people think.
Yeah, have integrity, be kindwhich is the most important
(29:29):
thing and have fun.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
That's awesome, Ronna .
I hope you come back and talkto us again.
This was such an enjoyableconversation.
I wish we were able to havegotten this done like a month
ago.
We've both been you know youtravel a lot, I've been
traveling a lot as well, andwe've finally been able to get
together.
It was truly a pleasure talkingto you and thank you so much
for your time.
It was great.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'd love to come back anytime.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Thanks for listening to REA Audio.
I hope we opened up your braina bit and helped you be better
at what you do.
Please follow us on Spotify,apple Podcasts, stitcher, amazon
Music or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
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