May 30, 2024 • 49 mins
What if you could revolutionize your professional development with just a few strategic learning techniques? In our latest episode, we promise to unlock the transformative power of lifelong learning and continuing education. Join us as we delve into the insights of Bob Wilson and Mark Pew, co-founders of WorkCompCollege.com, who share their unique paths and the invaluable lessons they've learned. Discover why breaking down complex topics and employing effective note-taking can make a world of difference in your learning journey.
Looking ahead, Bob and Mark outline their ambitious plans for WorkCompCollege.com, from innovative training solutions to an exciting new certification in the medical field. We discuss the challenges in reaching injured workers and the potential of an educational portal to guide them through the compensation process. Tune in to discover how never-ending learning can transform your career and personal growth.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
perspective.
Perspective is spelled p e r sp e c t I v e.
Perspective the 30 000 footview perspective put on someone
else's shoes.
Perspective can also refer tothe state of existing in space
(00:20):
or one's view of the worldperspective rea audio space or
one's view of the worldPerspective REA Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Reemployability.
The illiterate of the 21stcentury will not be those who
cannot read and write, but thosewho cannot learn, unlearn and
relearn.
A pretty poignant quoteattributed to Elvin Toffler in
his 1970 book Future Shock.
For this, our REA audio episodeon never-ending learning.
So who is Alvin Toffler, youmight ask?
Well, according to Wikipedia,he was an American writer,
(00:54):
futurist and businessman knownfor his works discussing modern
technology, the digital andcommunication revolutions.
But when I did some research onthis quote, I found that
actually Mr Toffler was quotingpsychologist Herbert Gerjouroy
of the Human Resource ResearchOrganization in his book.
So the quote belongs to MrGerjouroy.
(01:16):
And who is he?
Well, I'll let you do yourresearch on that one if you're
interested.
Funny thing was that my 10minutes of research, just on a
way to open this podcast, led medown a number of different
rabbit holes not dissimilar tothe story.
If you give a mouse a cookie,everything you learn leads to
other opportunities to learn,and so on and so on.
(01:37):
In this episode we're fortunateto speak with Bob Wilson and
Mark Pugh, co-founders ofWorkCompCollegecom, and get
their insights on continuedlearning both outside and inside
the work comp industry.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
To learn something.
Try to break down what you'restudying into smaller, more
manageable chunks so it's not asoverwhelming.
For example, if you're readinga chapter of a textbook, you
could focus on one key conceptat a time before moving on,
instead of reading through thewhole chapter all at once.
You should also try takingnotes when you learn and writing
out summaries when you'refinished learning a new concept,
(02:11):
since writing things down canhelp you remember them better.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, it's been like way too much time since I had
these two guests on REA Audio.
Bob Wilson and Mark Pugh arethe creators of a website called
WorkCompCollege and it is along time coming and it was very
new, I feel like, when wetalked a year, almost a year and
a half ago, and a lot haschanged.
(02:34):
So I wanted to have you guys onto talk about education and
furthering education and theimportance of education and how
learning never stops, not onlyin the work comp industry but in
life as a whole.
So, bob and Mark, thank youguys for joining me again.
It's always nice to have you onREA Audio.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, thanks, todd, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Absolutely.
Let's kick things off and justremind people of your
backgrounds a little bit.
Bob, let's start with you,because you're on my left.
Tell me a little bit about howyou got to where you are and
what led you to startingWorkComp College.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, I've been in the workers' comp industry for
about 25 years now.
I was a founder and CEO ofworkerscompensationcom.
I was in that position for 23years.
It was a great position.
I had a wonderful time.
But a couple years ago, theopportunity arose to branch out
into a new education challengewith Mark Pugh and another
(03:33):
partner of ours who's not on thebroadcast today, donald Abrams,
out of Austin, texas.
And after runningworkerscompensationcom for 23
years which, as I said, was agreat run and very challenging
and a lot of fun I think it wastime for something new and
another new challenge, and so Ileft that opportunity and we
started with Mark and Don WorkComp College.
(03:55):
That's my background.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So just quick, bob.
What did you do prior to thefirst website that you were a
part of?
Were you in the industry?
How did you get into that?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, actually, yeah, I tell people.
When people say, what do you do, I say as little as possible,
but the reality is I came out ofa business management and
technology background.
I had worked for a largesoftware company.
In human resources, I waslargely doing technical
recruiting.
I eventually developed my ownweb development company,
(04:27):
produced over 200 websites forcompanies in four states and
three countries, two continents.
Through the course of that,though, I was introduced to a
gentleman who owned the domainworkerscompensationcom, and with
my background and, as I say, Itell people I come to workers'
comp from an employer'sperspective You'll go back far
(04:47):
enough in my life.
My parents owned a restaurantand motel growing up, so out of
college, I went right intorestaurant management,
eventually became a districtmanager for a multi-concept
restaurant chain.
Those days, I could tell you,workers' comp was one of those
pain-in-the-butt things we hadto deal with, and we really
didn't understand workers' comp,and I think that's why it gives
me a perspective that a lot ofemployers really are their own
(05:09):
worst enemy.
They do not understand workers'comp.
You know, in those days, I tellpeople, if I had a lost time
claim, someone named Frank Gateswould gig my operating
statement 50 grand for somethingcalled a reserve and I didn't
like Frank too much in thosedays.
Grand for something called areserve and I didn't like Frank
too much in those days.
But you know it's.
(05:30):
I think it's given me a uniquebackground as I moved into
workers compensation, out ofbusiness management, human
resources, and it's, I think,been beneficial for me.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, I mean the why behind where and how somebody
gets places, I think is super,super important.
So you have that, that businessbackground, that employee
perspective.
Mark, what about you?
How did you get involved withthis?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Well, I started my professional career in 1980 in
computer operations, back whenthe mainframe operations and
computers took an entire flooras opposed to being on my little
cell phone that can fit in thepalm of my hand.
And I learned on the job, didsoftware development, project
management on all sorts ofdifferent platforms and stuff.
(06:10):
And I got an opportunity in1990 to take over a nights and
weekends job of building casemanagement software for a
utilization review, company andworkers' compensation.
I didn't know what I wasgetting myself into.
It was nights and weekends andthe guy that was on my team that
was tired of doing that saidhey, are you interested in a new
challenge?
So I've continually kind ofreinvented myself.
(06:33):
I'm probably on version 422 nowof Mark Pugh at this juncture.
Got into sales Would never havethought about doing sales.
Got into product development,which is kind of like software
development.
I would get nervous anytime Iwould raise my hand in a small
group of seven.
And then all of a sudden in2012, I got the opportunity to
(06:55):
start speaking in front ofpeople and have done it over 750
times now.
Just been a really interestingjourney 750 times now.
Just been a really interestingjourney.
Got to meet Bob along that path, as we ended up speaking at
different conferences andbouncing off each other.
So I've known him for probablya decade, and a lot of our
belief systems and how workers'compensation will work were very
(07:18):
much in sync, and so when theopportunity arose, basically it
was Donald's idea to create thistraining platform for new
people that were not getting thelevel of training.
We've grown tremendously, waybeyond that and my first thought
was well, I know somebody whocould really help.
I didn't realize that he wasvery technically adept, bob, in
(07:39):
doing a lot of this stuff.
I thought I was the techie, butas it turns out, bob is the
actual techie.
So it's been a reallyinteresting journey.
You know, I think honestlywhere I'm at right now, what I'm
doing right now, is basically aculmination of everything
that's happened in my entirelife.
You know, I would not havethought that I would ever speak.
(08:02):
I would not have ever thoughtI've written.
But it took.
You know I'm an overnightsensation that took about 28
years to develop.
So it's an interesting place tobe at workcompcollegecom being
provost, you know, doing productdevelopment, looking and
talking with ideas.
I would not have been able todo this 20 years ago had it not
been for the experiences inversion one and seven and 42 and
(08:26):
322 of more pew that's gonealong the way.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well, you know, I thought, if I could really quick
, I just have to mention that,as varied as our backgrounds are
and probably unique storiesthat we have, that's not unusual
in workers comp.
This is an industry that iscompletely staffed by accident.
None of us are actually surehow we actually got here, but I
tell people when I speak inconferences this hotel is like,
this is this industry, is likeHotel California you can check
(08:51):
out anytime you like, but youcan never, ever leave.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Okay, because they do .
Speaker 3 (08:55):
The faces stay here and there's something that draws
people to this industry andonce they're here, there's a
there's a noble cause behind itand they stay.
So it is an interestingphenomena that none of us Todd.
How did you get here?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I've never met anybody in workers' comp in all
my travel since I've been withre-employability who said, yeah,
I graduated from high schooland I was like, hey, I want to
be an adjuster in workers'compensation.
No my background is actually inmedia sales.
I worked for radio stations for20-plus years and sold radio.
I did some on-air productionand promotion stuff and the
(09:30):
opportunity came about to workhere at Reemployability and I
took it because it was veryintriguing to me.
And you're absolutely right,bob, when you can get below the
surface and understand thereality of what it is that we do
, regardless of what you dowithin the industry, how it
impacts people and the abilitythat you have to impact people,
(09:54):
it's a very rewarding career.
No doubt about that backgroundsis that it absolutely required
continued learning, notnecessarily learning in a
classroom setting, but it waslearning meeting each other at
conferences, hearing what otherpeople did, grasping onto that
(10:16):
and making it your own andlearning as you went around.
What were you saying, mark?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I was just going to say.
You know that is absolutelytrue and I think you know being
a lifelong learner is somethingthat is a practice, discipline
it's.
Sometimes it's an innate skill,Sometimes it's something you
lean into.
But one of the things thatdrives us is we know that the
the talent gap that we have inworkers compensation, with
(10:41):
retirements and resignations andstuff.
We can't count on peoplefinding us.
We have to strategically go outand get them.
And that's one of the drivingforces in why we have outreach
to independent property andcasualty adjusters, for example,
that are tired of assessing thedamage of a roof in a car and
(11:02):
want to make a bigger differenceand want to get into comp.
But they don't know how to getthere.
And we've had a number ofconversations and a number of
students who've actuallygraduated and make that
transition because we've got togo out and get them.
So you know the ultimatesustainability of our industry
can't be based on HotelCalifornia that we hope people
find us and we hope that theylike us, that they never leave.
(11:24):
We're literally going to haveto promote and try to compel
people that the noble purpose ofworkers compensation is a
reason for them to come intothat.
So I think you know theindustry has lasted 100 plus
years on people kind ofindirectly and involuntarily
finding work comp.
We're to a point now where wecan't count on luck to staff.
(11:46):
We've actually got to provide acompelling reason for them to
join us.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
You talked a little bit about how WorkComp College
was created, or, yeah, the howas to how it got created, but
can you talk a little bit aboutthe why?
Why did you see?
What was the why behind theopportunity you saw in creating
WorkCopCollegecom?
Why?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
don't we field that one first?
Yeah, why don't you take a stab?
at it, I'll field it and thenMark will fill in what I forget.
So he's very, very detailed.
There are, you know, what Iwould describe as adequate
training facilities for theindustry.
In a lot of places, however,training has taken a hit in the
last 20 or 30 years in theindustry and I don't think it's
(12:32):
been given probably its full duethat it deserves.
And one of the things we lookedat was some of the programs
that were out there.
They're very technical innature, they were competent in
that respect, but they reallyfailed to incorporate the
biopsychosocial elements thatcan so often dramatically affect
the outcome of a claim.
You know, an adjuster today canbe doing all the things they're
(12:53):
required to do and do all thethings that are mandatory and
necessary, and still have aclaim go completely off the
rails.
And we talk about how.
You know I may have fallen andinjured my elbow and people are.
You know we're good fallen andinjured my elbow and people are.
You know we're good at treatingthat elbow.
We can do that, but we don'tpay attention to what's going on
here inside the head, and it'swhat's going on, as Mark often
says, what's between the ears,what's going on between the ears
(13:15):
of that injured worker what'shappening in their lives, what's
influencing them, what'simpacting their viewpoints can
often take that claim off indifferent directions and we need
to better understand that.
So we really wanted to develop anew certification program that
focused on proper communication,understanding, listening,
emotional intelligence, tryingto really get a better grasp of
(13:39):
understanding what's going on inthe mind of those injured
workers when we're working withthem, so that we could really
work towards better outcomes.
We focus on better outcomes foremployees.
That's our tagline betteroutcomes, better communities,
better world.
But the reality is we can getbetter outcomes for injured
workers.
We're also getting betteroutcomes for their employers and
for the societies in which theylive.
(14:00):
That's just really the bottomline.
We've got to find better waysto avoid work disability and
avoid putting people on theSocial Security Disability Index
, or, in other words, you know,and there can be better outcomes
if we're focused on the wholeperson, not just the injury.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
And I would totally agree with that.
That was a lot of thediscussion.
In fact, Bob has beenadvocating to change the name of
the industry from workers'compensation to workers'
recovery for a decade.
So the whole concept of workers'recovery professional
certification.
You can understand who may havehad influence on the naming of
that certification andcurriculum them, but the other
(14:44):
thing, too, is a democratization.
One of the interesting thingsthat I found during COVID is
that at some point they ran outof people to staff 17 webinars
every day, 365 days a year andthey needed to grant
opportunities to people thatwere really smart, had great
experience, maybe young, maybeold, maybe been in industry for
six months, maybe been inindustry for 60 years, but had
(15:06):
never been given the opportunityto kind of explain their
perspective and give that output.
So we specifically leaned intohaving a very wide variety.
We've got over 130 facultymembers.
That was by design.
We reached out to people thathad name recognition in work
comp, and we also reached out topeople that nobody had ever
(15:28):
heard of before but were verysmart, had a very interesting
perspective on things, and sothat democratization, I think,
was an important kind of a whyas well, is to give other people
opportunity.
Bob and I have been on thespeaking circuit, you know, for
however many years a decade plusyou know.
We get calls unsolicited callsto speak at conferences and be
(15:51):
on podcasts and different thingslike that, because we've been
there, done that.
It's hard to break into thatspeaker circuit unless somebody
reaches out, gives someone theopportunity, that first
opportunity to make thatpresentation make a really big
impact.
And so part of the design ofour system was to have as many
faculty members from as manydifferent disciplines, from as
(16:13):
many different geographiclocations diversity in ideology,
diversity in gender and race,just everything to kind of give
a really wide variety of peopleto present this.
And part of that democratizationalso is smaller employers.
Large employers typically havetraining programs.
Smaller employers oftentimeswhen they bring somebody on,
(16:33):
it's really reliant on a mentorto be side to them.
I had a recent discussion withsomeone who started a new job
and they were assigned a mentor.
That mentor immediately wentinto an audit, was not available
for two weeks and then theywent on vacation.
So the first three weeks ofthat job, the person who was
supposed to be telling them andshowing them, et cetera, was not
(16:55):
available.
So it was pretty much kind ofdoing cannonball in the deep end
and hoping that they survive,which is not a sustainable
solution.
Those people will leave becausethey feel disenfranchised and
they didn't get the level oftraining and the injured worker
and the other stakeholdersaren't going to get the service
that they need because theirclaim is being processed by a
(17:17):
novice that doesn't have thesupport.
So that democratization ofbeing able to give this
consistent training from a verywide variety of faculty members
to a company that doesn't havethe resources to have an
internal training program givesthem a leg up and gives them the
ability to have someone kind ofhit the ground running.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Todd.
I do need to add just a littlebit, because Mark had talked
about reaching out to variouspeople and he did a great job of
describing that.
But I also need to point outthat some of the people on our
faculty reached out to us whenthey heard out what we were
doing, and I think that's a realtestament to the industry
because, while there's a littlebit of financial incentive to do
so, believe me, very little forthese folks, most of them
(17:56):
donated at the kids' chance.
We made donations on theirbehalf for their work, because
their motivation is to followwhat you know.
I was a terrible Boy Scout, bythe way.
I was a horrible longestrunning tenderfoot in the
history of Troop 504 in Durango,colorado.
However, I loved camping andwhat I learned.
(18:16):
the one thing I took away fromscouting is you always want to
leave your campsite in bettershape than you found it, and we
want to leave workers' comp inbetter shape than you found it,
and we want to lead workers'comp in better shape than we
found it.
And the people who have soughtus out some highly qualified,
very talented, knowledgeablepeople have that same goal they
want to contribute to a betterworkers' compensation system.
So what's really been excitingabout this is we started with a
(18:39):
concept hey, let's do this,let's do a certification and
it's turned into a realcommunity driven effort to
really enhance and reform anindustry, and that's what's
really exciting about this.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
No, that's awesome, and so you know we were talking
a little bit about some of thebenefits that you know, if
you're already in the industry,how this will help you be better
.
Right, so you can take courseson WernkopfCollegecom to help
you get better at what you do.
You know, taking into accountmore of that psychological
factor and kind of the softskills and other things as well.
(19:12):
Are you using this as anattraction to get people into
the industry?
Are you finding people that areoutside of the industry are
finding this website and findingthese courses and taking them
so that they can break in?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I'm going to let our chief mentor and provost handle
that particular question.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, it's been very, very fun to be involved in some
mentoring groups to again kindof get access to these property
and casualty independent agentsor adjusters who are looking for
a change.
We're reaching out.
We've had conversations withcolleges and universities, with
community colleges, even with anorganization that deals with
(19:51):
high school students, because,again, we can't count on people
to find us involuntarily anddecide that we have to kind of
go in the byways and highwaysand try to recruit them in here,
and so it's been reallyinteresting when you expose the
fact that this, yes, it's highlyregulated, yes, it can be
antagonistic at times.
Yes, it's very paper-orienteddriven.
(20:14):
Yes, there's a lot of stuffthat maybe you have to say no in
very challenging circumstances.
All of that is true.
Your life may be challengingfrom a day-to-day standpoint
because you're asked to do toomuch, because you got too many
claims on your day.
That's the reality of work comp.
But what our pitch is, it's avery noble purpose If you are
someone who's driven by apurpose-driven life, that wants
(20:37):
to make a difference, that wantsto be the tenderfoot that Bob
never was.
I was the tenderfoot.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I never went beyond that be the tenderfoot that Bob
never was.
Oh no, I was the tenderfoot, Inever went beyond that.
I achieved tenderfoot status.
You know, got it, got it yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I've seen you walk.
Don't undersell me, pal yeah.
I've seen you walk.
You definitely have tender feet, yeah thank you.
But the whole concept is, youknow, recruiting people for that
noble purpose and explaining,yes, this is the reality of what
you're getting yourself into.
And yes, nine out of 10conversations may be why did I
jump into this?
(21:10):
But that 10th conversation,when you help someone who is
completely disillusioned,completely confused about the
system, doesn't have a supportsystem at home that helps them
in that recovery process,doesn't have a support system at
home that helps them in thatrecovery process, is trying to
figure out how to meet, havefinancial ends meet, because
they're getting two-thirds oftheir paycheck and they have to
make challenging circumstancesand you arrange for
(21:31):
transportation, you make it veryeasy for them, you explain what
the doctor told them so thatthey understand how to do that.
That 10th out of 10 times paysfor the nine times when it was
maybe a very challengingcircumstance and that allows you
to go to sleep at night andhave a.
You know, to wake up in themorning and be excited about hey
, maybe today is the day I getto make a change.
(21:52):
And so changing the vernacularof what work comp is into the
insurance regulatory drivendriven, it is all that.
But it is also that opportunityto legitimately make a positive
difference in someone's life.
That may not just be their life, but maybe generations.
Because if you get them back towork and get them back to
financial wholeness and back totheir family, now their kids are
(22:17):
not dysfunctional becausethey're not raised in a
dysfunctional system, they'regrandkids.
So you can have a generationalchange by making a difference in
that particular person and somaking that argument to people
that want to make a difference.
Hey, workcomp actually is agreat place to do that.
That's really the argument.
So having those discussionswith people that are trying to
(22:38):
figure out what they want to bewhen they grow up and I'm 63,
and I'm still trying to figurethat out, right, we all kind of
mature at different levels andfigure out what we want to be,
but we're trying to give thosepeople young in their career
this is an opportunity to reallymake a difference.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Well, I think, though , and specific to your question,
Todd, we're a young school.
I don't know why my camera justdid that.
By the way, I know this is anaudio portion, but it
occasionally zooms in and outyou need to pay your cameraman
better Geez, I need a bettercamera.
I have a crew that follows meall the time, you know, so they
pan and zoom.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
But it is pretty cool .
They got you good on that onethough.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, they did.
Makes me look very, very fat.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
All I can say is I'm glad you have pants on Bob.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, well, me too.
You know it was a 50-50 shot,but you lucked out today.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Knowing you, I don't doubt that.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Specifically, though, you know we're a very young
school.
We've been around actuallyonline a year and a half
basically but we have at leasttwo specific instances where we
know of young professionals whohad insurance experience but no
workers' comp experience, havebeen looking to get into
workers' comp and not been ableto find the right opportunity.
They've gone through ourcourses and, since having
completed our courses, havelanded good jobs at two very
(23:53):
well-respected and well-knowncompanies we're.
You know I can't say we didthat, but I'm very happy to be
part of that equation and Ithink we are trying to help
people who want to come into theindustry, to give them a
foundation that can help themget into that position.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
You know, mark, I'm glad you mentioned about, you
know, the effect that the familyhas when somebody comes back to
work or becomes whole again,right, because I think one of
the things I know was a kind ofan eye-opening experience for me
during the pandemic was howeverything is connected.
And I don't think people alwaysrealize that, right, you know,
like I didn't get toilet paper,not because there wasn't toilet
(24:31):
paper, but because this truckcouldn't get here, because this
person wasn't there, becausethis part of the country was
closed down, and you know it wasall just a big circle.
Right, and it's absolutely true.
With human beings Everybody isconnected and that's how and
this sounds kind of hokey, butthat's how sometimes, passing
(24:51):
somebody in the hall, you smileat them, you make them smile,
you make their day.
That could change that person'skid's life for the rest of that
day, right?
So you never know how thelittle things that you do can
impact others and moving onforward.
So I'm glad you brought that upbecause that's so important to
remember, especially when you'rehaving a crappy day and you
don't want to treat people nice,when you realize that you could
(25:13):
have such an effect on them andso many others just by doing
that small thing that might takea little bit of effort.
I'm really interested in kind ofthe nuts and bolts of
workcompcollegecom now.
So what is the commitment like,like, do I have to take like a
whole, you know, like six-weekcourse?
Can I pick and choose?
(25:34):
What are some of the optionsthat are available now for folks
that might be listening, thatare in the industry and folks
that might be listening that arenot?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Well, that's a great question, because I would be the
market, I would be the firstpeople to tell you that what we
offer today has changed evendramatically over what we
originally envisioned when westarted talking about this, you
know, about two years ago.
We now have, you know, actuallythree official certification
programs available.
We have the workers' recoveryprofessional certification 64
(26:04):
courses, about 51 hours oflecture content.
It is a structured program,it's a self-driven program, but
that is a defined program.
We have an associate level thatcontains 19 courses, about 15
and a half hours of content,designed really for people who
need to understand the basics ofworkers' comp but are not
necessarily assisting injuredworkers or managing claims on a
(26:25):
day-to-day basis.
We have an MSPA, a MedicareSecondary Payer Accreditation.
Now that we did in partnershipwith Sanderson Firm.
That's been very successful tohelp bring education to the
people responsible for Medicareset-aside and those Medicare
secondary payer situations.
But what's really been mostunique in the last year was our
(26:50):
realization that we could parcelout elements of our training
for individual customizedtraining.
So today, if you come to us andsay I just want to take this
one course, that reallygenerally is not available
online, but if an employer, forinstance, we just launched,
about three months ago, avirtual training center and we
did this for a fairly good sizedTPA who was very impressed with
(27:12):
our technology and our systemand wanted to know if we could
actually set up a similar systemfor them to house their own
custom content but bring inselect courses from work comp
colleges campus, not just fortheir workers comp people,
because they've already beenrunning people through the WRP
program, but for their generaland auto liability general
liability and auto people aswell.
(27:33):
And we set that up.
So we now host and manage avirtual training center for that
company.
That is a customized solution.
We have now a customizedsolution for the Office of
Injured Employee Council inTexas.
They're the ombudsman in Texas.
They have 72 people in thesystem with a collection.
They have their own homepagewithin our campus and their own
(27:55):
collection of our courses thatwe've made available that they
selected.
So we are customizing solutionsfor employers based on their
individual needs.
We just launched a program a fewweeks ago called CompStart
Onboarding really focused Again,it can use the VTC, the virtual
trading center, or it can use acustom solution built within
our campus to integrate contentand customize those solutions.
(28:19):
So you as an individual, maynot be able to come and say,
look, I just want to take youremotional intelligence course.
That's not something we've madeavailable yet.
But as an employer, you couldcome and say I'm really
interested in having these sevencourses developed into a custom
program for X number of my newhires, because we're onboarding
them and they don't.
That's one of the things we'rerealizing is we're all running
(28:39):
around trying to find new people.
I one of the things we'rerealizing is we're all running
around trying to find new people.
You know it's.
I don't know about you, but Ihave a lot of friends that are
retiring and I am Mark's elder,by the way he mentioned.
He's 63.
By two months, no three weeksprobably, I'm like three weeks
older than Mark and I demand therespect of an as an elder.
You, young whippersnapper, youbut it?
(29:00):
Where was I going?
Before I even joke, See yourmoment already Squirrel,
squirrel, no people, people, myfriends are all retiring and I
don't understand it, becauseit's similar to Mark, who's
still, you know, the kid tryingto figure out what he wants to
be.
I have similar attitudes and I,until I look in the mirror.
I don't understand why peopleare retiring.
(29:21):
It's like, oh yeah, I'm not 30anymore, but we need to find
these people to come into theindustry and I think we have the
ability, with some of ourcontent, to now customize
onboarding solutions so that, no, they don't know anything about
workers comp.
We can take care of that.
You can train to your specificprograms and your specific
policies, and if you want to putthat in a video program, we can
(29:44):
help you with that or we canactually host it for you.
But if even not, we can takecare of that workers' comp
component so that they betterunderstand not just the industry
, but where they fit it's myhands that do it with the camera
but where they fit within thescope of the industry.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You're throwing people off on an audio-only
podcast.
I know it's an audio program.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
My camera automatically tracks me and
zooms, and if I talk with myhands it zooms way out and I
look like a big bowling ballwith a head parked on top of it.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
We may put this on YouTube just because of that.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I'm glad I'm wearing pants then Well, if you put it
on they could see you do have aradio background because you
have that enormous microphone inthe image.
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Thank you very much.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
And you know, todd, I think what we have learned over
I mean, literally, our firstbusiness meeting was Memorial
Day of 2022.
So we're just coming up onbasically two years of kind of
putting the business plantogether and so forth.
And I think what has been sofun for me and I won't speak on
behalf of Bob and Donald, but Ithink they probably feel the
(30:54):
same way is we listen to themarketplace, we look for
opportunities and we respond.
There's a certain point whereyou don't have critical mass,
you don't have enough courses,you don't have enough faculty,
you don't have enough students.
You know you can put all thisstuff together and go, okay,
great, whatever, but we havereached critical mass and all
those different things.
So we can treat each individualcourse as an individual asset
(31:17):
and then respond to the industry.
And I think you know, fromproduct development standpoint,
it's really cool to be able tohave conversations with people
at conferences or on Zoom callsor Teams calls and go.
You know what?
I'm really struggling with this, or have you ever heard of
anything that does this?
Or you know?
And it sparks an idea.
And Bob, donald and I meetevery Monday in a board of
directors meeting and we come upwith ideas that we heard, like
(31:40):
the associate certification.
Literally the fourth time Iheard somebody go you know what?
Wrp is great, but 64 courses,51 hours of content, that's way
too much for my particular rolein understanding the breadth.
Fourth time I heard that we gottogether and go, hey, we need
to come up with a skinnierversion that maybe not as deep
but it still is as broad, thatgives people that opportunity
(32:02):
and open up people, ops,operations, people, salespeople,
hr manager, people that don'thave necessarily the time to
commit to 64 courses but can do19 courses and maybe over a
couple of three week period.
And so that's what's fun frombusiness owner.
You know, founding partner,whatever you want to call it,
it's our baby, it's Bob andDonald's and my baby.
(32:25):
We have a board of trusteesthat have been great advisors to
us.
We got deans that have helpedus craft the curriculum.
We've got faculty, obviously,but it really comes down to the
three of us and we're justkeeping our ear to the ground in
regards to what is themarketplace looking like.
And it's really cool to be ableto go hey, now that we've got
critical mass, now that we'vegot all these different assets,
(32:46):
how can we do.
That's where the comps startonboarding.
We kept hearing from a couple ofour clients were doing this as
a part of their onboardingprocess.
It's like, well, that's a termthat we hear a lot, that people
don't have a grasp of.
Why don't we do a particularcustomized version of that that
people can kind of wrap theirheads around, rather than having
them connect the dots, weconnect the dots for them and
(33:09):
say this is a customizedplatform.
So I think you know that's thefun part of now.
You know, two years into abusiness plan, our business plan
is completely different.
I mean, it doesn't even hold ahold a candle to what we
originally talked about Day 2022, just because we've been
adaptive to what we hear fromthe marketplace.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Any thoughts of doing anything that would be like
employee or injured workerfacing?
It's funny that you mentionthat.
I guess not because you pulledit straight up in the air.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Can we edit that pause out?
Yes, we will.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
It's funny that you mention that, because we do have
a voice of the provider, whichis in partnership with Brooks
Rehab.
That's talking about all thedifferent disciplines outside
the paywall completely availableWe've done 21 episodes on that.
Completely available We've done21 episodes on that.
We're working on a voice of theinjured worker with
re-employability.
That will be a similar kind ofstyle podcast thing that is
(34:07):
going to be telling the storyfrom the injured workers
perspective, and we do have acouple of faculty members that
are injured workers themselveskind of telling that story, you
know as we're having HR managers, HR managers coming back to us
and risk managers are going.
How can we kind of how can youhelp me kind of figure out this,
this whole process?
Speaker 3 (34:33):
So it's a part of that process of continuing to
listen to what the industry isdoing, and, you know, have a lot
of publicly available resourcesin our outreach center, and
Mark has already covered some ofthose between webinars and
articles and things like that.
The injured worker, though,generally, is a very hard
population to reach, and peopleget mad when I say this.
(34:55):
Some people get very mad.
There's no one who reallyspeaks on behalf of the injured
worker.
Okay, everybody, even unions,can have conflicting needs and
priorities over their specificinjured workers.
I know a lot of attorneys andthere are some really good
personal injury attorneys orplaintiffs attorneys who are the
real deal, but even they, ifthey're not careful, their
(35:17):
incentives can be misalignedwith that of the workers they
represent Very tough audience toreach.
When I was withworkerscompensationcom for many
years, we had a discussioncenter that was open to anybody,
an online discussion center.
It was absolutely dominated byinjured workers.
They seemed to have a littlemore time on their hands than a
lot of us.
Every once in a while, aprofessional would wander in and
(35:39):
try and offer advice.
It was like watching Bambi bedevoured by a pool of angry
piranha.
It was not a pretty sight, butand unfortunately after I left
the company, that discussionforum was removed, which was, I
think, unfortunate because itwas an education as to for me as
to how injured workers view thesystem, what happens to them in
(36:01):
the system and there are.
There are a lot of really goodpeople in our industry.
There are bad players, as thereare in any industry, and when
they had bad experiences andjust the way they viewed things,
it was a, it was a greateducation.
But even they're very tough toreach and very you know.
The thing that a lot of peopledon't understand, a lot of
injured workers don't understand, is, you know, we have
(36:22):
responsibilities to the injuredworker.
We are obligated morally,ethically, legally,
contractually to do things forinjured workers.
They also have responsibilitiesin their own recovery and that
is one of the hardest things toconvey and that's one of the
things that we focus on in someof our training.
But that's really we have tofocus with the professionals to
get that done because we canreach that professional audience
(36:44):
.
The injured workers are prettywidespread.
Without that organized entitythat can bring them together,
there is no institute of injuredworker that you can go to, a
conference and teach or learn ordiscuss, and that's one of the
challenges I think we have as anindustry.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, for sure.
And the reason I brought thatup and it just popped in my head
.
My wife is a teacher.
She fell off a stool in herclassroom about a year ago, hit
her head.
She was fine, but obviously itwas a work comp claim and had I
not been in the industry shewouldn't have had a clue about
what was going on.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And that was kind of the direction of my question.
I don't know if any clients ofyours, any companies that work
with you, have looked into somekind of a portal for someone
that they could just send a linkto for an injured worker to
just learn the high level, likethis is the process, just for
people to understand, I thinkactually that would be an
(37:43):
excellent idea to producesomething like that that just
explains process and things.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I don't know.
We would have to find veryreceptive employers.
There's a lot, unfortunately,from an injured worker's
perspective.
Sometimes there's mistrust foranything that comes from the
insurance company.
Okay, you know they aren'tgoing to trust that necessarily.
Now, if they like theiremployer, they will probably
trust what is sent to them bytheir employer.
(38:10):
That would be an interestingthing.
And here again, we do listen andI'm sure Mark and I will be
discussing this after the callis is could something be done to
be made available on this iswhat happened.
This is what you can generallyexpect.
These are your rights andresponsibilities generally.
I mean, we'd have to make it apretty high level overview
because they're all different inevery state.
(38:30):
We did, you know.
I know we have one discussionwith one very large company that
has a lot of franchisees in thecountry about developing
specific training for theirfranchisees on how to go about
managing workers' comp claims,because you know claims
professionals can tell you thatsometimes an employer is their
(38:50):
own worst enemy.
They will torpedo a claimbefore the adjuster even knows
there is one.
With the way they behave, withthe way they act, the way they
treat the injured worker.
So you know that project didn'tcome to fruition.
But you know something thatcould be made available on a
basis to an injured worker tohelp explain and familiarize
(39:13):
them.
Probably not a bad idea if wecould get companies to use it
and we could do it in a neutralperspective that people would
trust.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah.
So what do you have looking ayear from now?
Hopefully we talk in less thana year, but if we sit down a
year from today, you can tell mewhat happened.
What do you guys have plannedfor workcompcollegecom.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Well we are.
I will say that's very hard tosay because if you'd asked me a
year ago what we'd be talkingabout today, I wouldn't have
been able to tell you.
Some of it I can tell you.
Let me just quickly I'm goingto tell a few numbers we're
really proud of.
We're a year and a half in andwe have 500 people more than 500
people enrolled in our programs.
(39:53):
We have 180 people who havereceived certifications,
actually more than that.
Now, if I add in the MSPAnumbers, probably 195 people
that have received ourcertifications.
Very pleased with that.
Compared to what maybe otherorganizations may have achieved
in their initial launch, we hada great response.
We are working.
(40:16):
Gee Mark.
Should I talk about the projectwe're working on at the moment?
I probably should.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
Yeah well, I was going to tease that there's a
new certification coming out,probably later this summer, that
we can't disclose.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Well, yeah, it will be a certification and it's very
large and it's something thatpeople deal with in every state
in the nation.
Along the medical front, I'lltell you it's along the medical
front.
Okay, that's enough, Bob.
That along the medical front,I'll tell you it's along the
medical front.
Okay, that's enough, bob,that's enough.
No, that's okay.
That's okay.
But, yeah, we're working on anew program.
You'll need to check back withus later this summer and we can
(40:49):
talk about it a little more.
But, yeah, we're excited bythat.
That's one of the things we'reworking on.
We really are looking to roundout, we have an area called ATEC
Prime, which is our AdvancedTraining and Education Center.
It's really designed for thosepeople who have been through our
certifications to maintain thatcertification.
Continue education offers a lotof courses.
We're busy expanding thatfeature.
(41:09):
We are working.
We'll be announcing in a coupleweeks a new AI-powered
assistant that will actually beable to answer questions based
on the multitude of documentswe've uploaded through not just
our campus but also elsewhereonline.
That will just be an AI-poweredassistant.
And this summer I'll plug theWCI conference in Orlando.
(41:33):
We are producing the first evertechnology track at WCI.
We'll have four sessions onthat Wednesday and we encourage
everybody to plan to attend.
And, by the way, those peoplewho are certified through us
will get continuing educationcredits for attending the WCI
technology track section.
So those are some of the thingswe're working on this coming
(41:54):
year.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Super cool.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Yeah, I would add that there are probably going to
be even more customizedimplementations, because that
seems to be the trend for us, ofemployers going hey, I've
already got something, can youaugment it, can you add to it?
How can I incorporate what I'vealready got with what you've
got?
So we've got kind of a hybridmodel.
(42:17):
So that's something that we arecertainly going to be embracing
.
So if we were to do this nextFebruary or whatever, hopefully,
rather than the two that we'retalking about, with Office of
Injured Employee Counsel and theTPA that's doing the virtual
training center, maybe we've gotfive or ten different
implementations and each one ofthem are different because the
(42:39):
needs of the employer isdifferent, the training needs,
where they're coming from, whatthey already have.
But I agree with Bob, we're asgood as a magic eight ball at
this point as far as trying topredict the future, because
we're listening constantly.
We're talking on a weekly basison what we're hearing, trading
ideas back and forth.
(43:00):
We have discovered that thereare no bad ideas until they have
been proven.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
So, yes, we have proven a couple of things.
We've proven a couple.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Yeah, we have learned the hard way on some of those
cases.
So we're going to continue toexperiment and continue to
expand and you know, I thinkthat again that's what's fun, uh
, in being involved, um, withtwo guys that I really respect
in the board of trustees anddeans and faculty and students
and stuff.
This community that we'regrowing, we really want it to be
(43:30):
, a community we're we'releaning into maybe, um, some
more interactive things as well,like office hours for faculty
members that would be free andopen to students to go.
Hey, they're going to be herefrom three or four o'clock on a
Wednesday afternoon, you knowZoom meeting.
Would you like to join?
There's a variety of differentthings.
We're talking about projectsthat we can work on as a group,
(43:54):
like an incubator, you know,kind of system.
So we're kind of continuing tolean.
Those are a little bit early inthe new one, you know, in of
system.
So we're kind of continuing tolean.
Those are a little bit early inthe new, you know, in the
development phase.
But you know we're we'reconstantly reinventing ourselves
.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Well, I used to say the same thing in my last
company too is the benefits ofbeing a small company is you can
gather people together in aroom and come to a boneheaded
decision much faster than alarger corporation.
As Mark said, there are no badideas until they're proven bad.
And we've had some great ideasand we've had some less than
stellar ideas, but it's all beenfun and I think the bottom line
(44:28):
is we have a very seriousbusiness, but we're never going
to take ourselves so seriouslythat we can't enjoy ourselves
and try things and be willing tomake some mistakes in the
process.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Well, I think you guys both really pulled it
around full circle here, becausewe're talking about learning
never stops, and the only wayyou're going to learn is by
making mistakes, and coming upwith ideas is a giant amount.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
I'm highly educated by now by the way.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, well, unfortunately, I think too many
people are just so afraid to dothat, and that's all part of the
process.
Whether you're 20, 50, 50 or 70years old, it's okay to try new
things and it's okay to jump inwith both feet, and if you fail
, you fail, but at least yougave it a shot, right I think a
lot of people have heard of FOMOfear of missing out.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
But there's another one that I just recently came
across.
I'd never heard of it's FOMOfear of messing up.
And fear of messing up willwill keep you from entertaining
ideas, keep you from tryingdifferent things because you're
afraid of what the repercussionsare.
You know the repercussions forus is, you know we make a, we
(45:34):
make a mistake and go sorry.
You know that didn't work.
This is not a life or deathcircumstance.
You know we, we we're not,we're not making those kind of
decisions.
But I, I would advocate forpeople to get rid of fomo fear
of missing out.
Um, because that's a sense ofcomparison that is never good.
Um, as as good a car as youdrive, you can always find
(45:54):
somebody that's driving a bettercar.
Comparisons never work.
But fomo is definitely adestabilizing, um, almost, uh,
you know, a freeze kind of amode where your fear of messing
up and you're you're afraid ofmaking that next move.
We have not been afraid ofmaking that next move and I
think we're evidence of you knowthree older guys reinventing
(46:15):
themselves.
Uh, you know, uh, some bychoice, some not, not by choice,
but um, you know we werewilling to step out and if we
can be somewhat of a model or aguide or an inspiration or
motivation for other people thatneed to step out and do
something different or acautionary tale or yeah, yeah,
(46:37):
hopefully we're still here anduh, paying the utility bills so
we can be on Zoom with you inFebruary of next year.
But you know, if we could be amotivation, because there's a
lot of people that are stuck andthey're they're, they're not
happy.
That's what happened with thegreat resignation during COVID.
All of a sudden they go why amI doing this?
This is stupid and they decidedjust to bail.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
There's a lot of people that are stuck in
positions that don't make sensein careers that don't have a
good journey ahead of them, thathave bad work life balances,
and I would advocate like, hey,if you get the opportunity,
don't be FOMU, you know, takethat opportunity of making that
next step.
Yeah, that's a great way towind things up, mark work comp.
Collegecom is the website.
If anybody, if we haveemployers or carriers out there
that want to talk to you guysabout stylizing some platforms
for them, is that the best wayfor them to get ahold of you is
through the website.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
They can go to work comp collegecom.
There is a contact form theycan use.
Our toll free number is there.
Our email addresses are listedthere.
They can email us through thesite.
So yeah, like I said, we'rehappy to have phone conversation
.
We're happy to set up Zoomcalls.
We talk to people all the timeto answer their questions.
(47:55):
Sometimes it's better to havethat face-to-face call and we
prefer that sometimes because wecan answer those questions more
quickly than you can through aseries of email exchanges.
But anyway, whatever theirpreferences, we're there to
easily communicate with, I think.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Right, bob Wilson and Mark Pugh from
workcompcollegecom.
Yeah, I'll tell you what.
10 years ago, if somebody saidyou're going to interview two
guys about a website thateducates people on workers'
compensation, I'd be like, oh,that's going to be thrilling,
yay.
And, quite honestly, I lovetalking to you guys.
It's always fun to get you onand I actually kept you longer
(48:30):
than I expected and I appreciateyour time and appreciate
everything you guys do and wewill definitely get together in
less time than a year.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Sounds great.
Thank you, todd, we reallyappreciate it and appreciate
your support and the opportunityto talk.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Thanks guys.
Alexa, did you go to college?
Speaker 1 (48:48):
I didn't go to a school, in particular, but
living in the cloud is liketaking a perpetual online course
.
My credit hours are off thecharts.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask you
for a glass of milk.
When you give him the milk,he'll probably ask you for a
straw, and when he's finishedhe'll ask for a napkin.
Then he'll want to look in themirror to make sure he doesn't
have a milk mustache, and so onand so on.
Learning should always producenew questions, and so on and so
(49:17):
on.
So here's to your never-endingjourney in learning.
Hopefully we inspired you totake some action today.
Thanks for listening to REAAudio.
Please make sure to follow uson Spotify or Apple Podcasts or
Stitcher or wherever you getyour podcasts.
We appreciate you.
Have a great rest of your week.
perspective.
Perspective is spelled p e r sp e c t I v e.
Perspective the 30 000 footview perspective put on someone
else's shoes.
Perspective can also refer tothe state of existing in space
(00:20):
or one's view of the worldperspective rea audio space or
one's view of the worldPerspective REA Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Reemployability.
The illiterate of the 21stcentury will not be those who
cannot read and write, but thosewho cannot learn, unlearn and
relearn.
A pretty poignant quoteattributed to Elvin Toffler in
his 1970 book Future Shock.
For this, our REA audio episodeon never-ending learning.
So who is Alvin Toffler, youmight ask?
Well, according to Wikipedia,he was an American writer,
(00:54):
futurist and businessman knownfor his works discussing modern
technology, the digital andcommunication revolutions.
But when I did some research onthis quote, I found that
actually Mr Toffler was quotingpsychologist Herbert Gerjouroy
of the Human Resource ResearchOrganization in his book.
So the quote belongs to MrGerjouroy.
(01:16):
And who is he?
Well, I'll let you do yourresearch on that one if you're
interested.
Funny thing was that my 10minutes of research, just on a
way to open this podcast, led medown a number of different
rabbit holes not dissimilar tothe story.
If you give a mouse a cookie,everything you learn leads to
other opportunities to learn,and so on and so on.
(01:37):
In this episode we're fortunateto speak with Bob Wilson and
Mark Pugh, co-founders ofWorkCompCollegecom, and get
their insights on continuedlearning both outside and inside
the work comp industry.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
To learn something.
Try to break down what you'restudying into smaller, more
manageable chunks so it's not asoverwhelming.
For example, if you're readinga chapter of a textbook, you
could focus on one key conceptat a time before moving on,
instead of reading through thewhole chapter all at once.
You should also try takingnotes when you learn and writing
out summaries when you'refinished learning a new concept,
(02:11):
since writing things down canhelp you remember them better.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, it's been like way too much time since I had
these two guests on REA Audio.
Bob Wilson and Mark Pugh arethe creators of a website called
WorkCompCollege and it is along time coming and it was very
new, I feel like, when wetalked a year, almost a year and
a half ago, and a lot haschanged.
(02:34):
So I wanted to have you guys onto talk about education and
furthering education and theimportance of education and how
learning never stops, not onlyin the work comp industry but in
life as a whole.
So, bob and Mark, thank youguys for joining me again.
It's always nice to have you onREA Audio.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Well, thanks, todd, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Absolutely.
Let's kick things off and justremind people of your
backgrounds a little bit.
Bob, let's start with you,because you're on my left.
Tell me a little bit about howyou got to where you are and
what led you to startingWorkComp College.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Well, I've been in the workers' comp industry for
about 25 years now.
I was a founder and CEO ofworkerscompensationcom.
I was in that position for 23years.
It was a great position.
I had a wonderful time.
But a couple years ago, theopportunity arose to branch out
into a new education challengewith Mark Pugh and another
(03:33):
partner of ours who's not on thebroadcast today, donald Abrams,
out of Austin, texas.
And after runningworkerscompensationcom for 23
years which, as I said, was agreat run and very challenging
and a lot of fun I think it wastime for something new and
another new challenge, and so Ileft that opportunity and we
started with Mark and Don WorkComp College.
(03:55):
That's my background.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
So just quick, bob.
What did you do prior to thefirst website that you were a
part of?
Were you in the industry?
How did you get into that?
Speaker 3 (04:06):
Well, actually, yeah, I tell people.
When people say, what do you do, I say as little as possible,
but the reality is I came out ofa business management and
technology background.
I had worked for a largesoftware company.
In human resources, I waslargely doing technical
recruiting.
I eventually developed my ownweb development company,
(04:27):
produced over 200 websites forcompanies in four states and
three countries, two continents.
Through the course of that,though, I was introduced to a
gentleman who owned the domainworkerscompensationcom, and with
my background and, as I say, Itell people I come to workers'
comp from an employer'sperspective You'll go back far
(04:47):
enough in my life.
My parents owned a restaurantand motel growing up, so out of
college, I went right intorestaurant management,
eventually became a districtmanager for a multi-concept
restaurant chain.
Those days, I could tell you,workers' comp was one of those
pain-in-the-butt things we hadto deal with, and we really
didn't understand workers' comp,and I think that's why it gives
me a perspective that a lot ofemployers really are their own
(05:09):
worst enemy.
They do not understand workers'comp.
You know, in those days, I tellpeople, if I had a lost time
claim, someone named Frank Gateswould gig my operating
statement 50 grand for somethingcalled a reserve and I didn't
like Frank too much in thosedays.
Grand for something called areserve and I didn't like Frank
too much in those days.
But you know it's.
(05:30):
I think it's given me a uniquebackground as I moved into
workers compensation, out ofbusiness management, human
resources, and it's, I think,been beneficial for me.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, I mean the why behind where and how somebody
gets places, I think is super,super important.
So you have that, that businessbackground, that employee
perspective.
Mark, what about you?
How did you get involved withthis?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Well, I started my professional career in 1980 in
computer operations, back whenthe mainframe operations and
computers took an entire flooras opposed to being on my little
cell phone that can fit in thepalm of my hand.
And I learned on the job, didsoftware development, project
management on all sorts ofdifferent platforms and stuff.
(06:10):
And I got an opportunity in1990 to take over a nights and
weekends job of building casemanagement software for a
utilization review, company andworkers' compensation.
I didn't know what I wasgetting myself into.
It was nights and weekends andthe guy that was on my team that
was tired of doing that saidhey, are you interested in a new
challenge?
So I've continually kind ofreinvented myself.
(06:33):
I'm probably on version 422 nowof Mark Pugh at this juncture.
Got into sales Would never havethought about doing sales.
Got into product development,which is kind of like software
development.
I would get nervous anytime Iwould raise my hand in a small
group of seven.
And then all of a sudden in2012, I got the opportunity to
(06:55):
start speaking in front ofpeople and have done it over 750
times now.
Just been a really interestingjourney 750 times now.
Just been a really interestingjourney.
Got to meet Bob along that path, as we ended up speaking at
different conferences andbouncing off each other.
So I've known him for probablya decade, and a lot of our
belief systems and how workers'compensation will work were very
(07:18):
much in sync, and so when theopportunity arose, basically it
was Donald's idea to create thistraining platform for new
people that were not getting thelevel of training.
We've grown tremendously, waybeyond that and my first thought
was well, I know somebody whocould really help.
I didn't realize that he wasvery technically adept, bob, in
(07:39):
doing a lot of this stuff.
I thought I was the techie, butas it turns out, bob is the
actual techie.
So it's been a reallyinteresting journey.
You know, I think honestlywhere I'm at right now, what I'm
doing right now, is basically aculmination of everything
that's happened in my entirelife.
You know, I would not havethought that I would ever speak.
(08:02):
I would not have ever thoughtI've written.
But it took.
You know I'm an overnightsensation that took about 28
years to develop.
So it's an interesting place tobe at workcompcollegecom being
provost, you know, doing productdevelopment, looking and
talking with ideas.
I would not have been able todo this 20 years ago had it not
been for the experiences inversion one and seven and 42 and
(08:26):
322 of more pew that's gonealong the way.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Well, you know, I thought, if I could really quick
, I just have to mention that,as varied as our backgrounds are
and probably unique storiesthat we have, that's not unusual
in workers comp.
This is an industry that iscompletely staffed by accident.
None of us are actually surehow we actually got here, but I
tell people when I speak inconferences this hotel is like,
this is this industry, is likeHotel California you can check
(08:51):
out anytime you like, but youcan never, ever leave.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Okay, because they do .
Speaker 3 (08:55):
The faces stay here and there's something that draws
people to this industry andonce they're here, there's a
there's a noble cause behind itand they stay.
So it is an interestingphenomena that none of us Todd.
How did you get here?
Speaker 2 (09:08):
I've never met anybody in workers' comp in all
my travel since I've been withre-employability who said, yeah,
I graduated from high schooland I was like, hey, I want to
be an adjuster in workers'compensation.
No my background is actually inmedia sales.
I worked for radio stations for20-plus years and sold radio.
I did some on-air productionand promotion stuff and the
(09:30):
opportunity came about to workhere at Reemployability and I
took it because it was veryintriguing to me.
And you're absolutely right,bob, when you can get below the
surface and understand thereality of what it is that we do
, regardless of what you dowithin the industry, how it
impacts people and the abilitythat you have to impact people,
(09:54):
it's a very rewarding career.
No doubt about that backgroundsis that it absolutely required
continued learning, notnecessarily learning in a
classroom setting, but it waslearning meeting each other at
conferences, hearing what otherpeople did, grasping onto that
(10:16):
and making it your own andlearning as you went around.
What were you saying, mark?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
I was just going to say.
You know that is absolutelytrue and I think you know being
a lifelong learner is somethingthat is a practice, discipline
it's.
Sometimes it's an innate skill,Sometimes it's something you
lean into.
But one of the things thatdrives us is we know that the
the talent gap that we have inworkers compensation, with
(10:41):
retirements and resignations andstuff.
We can't count on peoplefinding us.
We have to strategically go outand get them.
And that's one of the drivingforces in why we have outreach
to independent property andcasualty adjusters, for example,
that are tired of assessing thedamage of a roof in a car and
(11:02):
want to make a bigger differenceand want to get into comp.
But they don't know how to getthere.
And we've had a number ofconversations and a number of
students who've actuallygraduated and make that
transition because we've got togo out and get them.
So you know the ultimatesustainability of our industry
can't be based on HotelCalifornia that we hope people
find us and we hope that theylike us, that they never leave.
(11:24):
We're literally going to haveto promote and try to compel
people that the noble purpose ofworkers compensation is a
reason for them to come intothat.
So I think you know theindustry has lasted 100 plus
years on people kind ofindirectly and involuntarily
finding work comp.
We're to a point now where wecan't count on luck to staff.
(11:46):
We've actually got to provide acompelling reason for them to
join us.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
You talked a little bit about how WorkComp College
was created, or, yeah, the howas to how it got created, but
can you talk a little bit aboutthe why?
Why did you see?
What was the why behind theopportunity you saw in creating
WorkCopCollegecom?
Why?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
don't we field that one first?
Yeah, why don't you take a stab?
at it, I'll field it and thenMark will fill in what I forget.
So he's very, very detailed.
There are, you know, what Iwould describe as adequate
training facilities for theindustry.
In a lot of places, however,training has taken a hit in the
last 20 or 30 years in theindustry and I don't think it's
(12:32):
been given probably its full duethat it deserves.
And one of the things we lookedat was some of the programs
that were out there.
They're very technical innature, they were competent in
that respect, but they reallyfailed to incorporate the
biopsychosocial elements thatcan so often dramatically affect
the outcome of a claim.
You know, an adjuster today canbe doing all the things they're
(12:53):
required to do and do all thethings that are mandatory and
necessary, and still have aclaim go completely off the
rails.
And we talk about how.
You know I may have fallen andinjured my elbow and people are.
You know we're good fallen andinjured my elbow and people are.
You know we're good at treatingthat elbow.
We can do that, but we don'tpay attention to what's going on
here inside the head, and it'swhat's going on, as Mark often
says, what's between the ears,what's going on between the ears
(13:15):
of that injured worker what'shappening in their lives, what's
influencing them, what'simpacting their viewpoints can
often take that claim off indifferent directions and we need
to better understand that.
So we really wanted to develop anew certification program that
focused on proper communication,understanding, listening,
emotional intelligence, tryingto really get a better grasp of
(13:39):
understanding what's going on inthe mind of those injured
workers when we're working withthem, so that we could really
work towards better outcomes.
We focus on better outcomes foremployees.
That's our tagline betteroutcomes, better communities,
better world.
But the reality is we can getbetter outcomes for injured
workers.
We're also getting betteroutcomes for their employers and
for the societies in which theylive.
(14:00):
That's just really the bottomline.
We've got to find better waysto avoid work disability and
avoid putting people on theSocial Security Disability Index
, or, in other words, you know,and there can be better outcomes
if we're focused on the wholeperson, not just the injury.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
And I would totally agree with that.
That was a lot of thediscussion.
In fact, Bob has beenadvocating to change the name of
the industry from workers'compensation to workers'
recovery for a decade.
So the whole concept of workers'recovery professional
certification.
You can understand who may havehad influence on the naming of
that certification andcurriculum them, but the other
(14:44):
thing, too, is a democratization.
One of the interesting thingsthat I found during COVID is
that at some point they ran outof people to staff 17 webinars
every day, 365 days a year andthey needed to grant
opportunities to people thatwere really smart, had great
experience, maybe young, maybeold, maybe been in industry for
six months, maybe been inindustry for 60 years, but had
(15:06):
never been given the opportunityto kind of explain their
perspective and give that output.
So we specifically leaned intohaving a very wide variety.
We've got over 130 facultymembers.
That was by design.
We reached out to people thathad name recognition in work
comp, and we also reached out topeople that nobody had ever
(15:28):
heard of before but were verysmart, had a very interesting
perspective on things, and sothat democratization, I think,
was an important kind of a whyas well, is to give other people
opportunity.
Bob and I have been on thespeaking circuit, you know, for
however many years a decade plusyou know.
We get calls unsolicited callsto speak at conferences and be
(15:51):
on podcasts and different thingslike that, because we've been
there, done that.
It's hard to break into thatspeaker circuit unless somebody
reaches out, gives someone theopportunity, that first
opportunity to make thatpresentation make a really big
impact.
And so part of the design ofour system was to have as many
faculty members from as manydifferent disciplines, from as
(16:13):
many different geographiclocations diversity in ideology,
diversity in gender and race,just everything to kind of give
a really wide variety of peopleto present this.
And part of that democratizationalso is smaller employers.
Large employers typically havetraining programs.
Smaller employers oftentimeswhen they bring somebody on,
(16:33):
it's really reliant on a mentorto be side to them.
I had a recent discussion withsomeone who started a new job
and they were assigned a mentor.
That mentor immediately wentinto an audit, was not available
for two weeks and then theywent on vacation.
So the first three weeks ofthat job, the person who was
supposed to be telling them andshowing them, et cetera, was not
(16:55):
available.
So it was pretty much kind ofdoing cannonball in the deep end
and hoping that they survive,which is not a sustainable
solution.
Those people will leave becausethey feel disenfranchised and
they didn't get the level oftraining and the injured worker
and the other stakeholdersaren't going to get the service
that they need because theirclaim is being processed by a
(17:17):
novice that doesn't have thesupport.
So that democratization ofbeing able to give this
consistent training from a verywide variety of faculty members
to a company that doesn't havethe resources to have an
internal training program givesthem a leg up and gives them the
ability to have someone kind ofhit the ground running.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Todd.
I do need to add just a littlebit, because Mark had talked
about reaching out to variouspeople and he did a great job of
describing that.
But I also need to point outthat some of the people on our
faculty reached out to us whenthey heard out what we were
doing, and I think that's a realtestament to the industry
because, while there's a littlebit of financial incentive to do
so, believe me, very little forthese folks, most of them
(17:56):
donated at the kids' chance.
We made donations on theirbehalf for their work, because
their motivation is to followwhat you know.
I was a terrible Boy Scout, bythe way.
I was a horrible longestrunning tenderfoot in the
history of Troop 504 in Durango,colorado.
However, I loved camping andwhat I learned.
(18:16):
the one thing I took away fromscouting is you always want to
leave your campsite in bettershape than you found it, and we
want to leave workers' comp inbetter shape than you found it,
and we want to lead workers'comp in better shape than we
found it.
And the people who have soughtus out some highly qualified,
very talented, knowledgeablepeople have that same goal they
want to contribute to a betterworkers' compensation system.
So what's really been excitingabout this is we started with a
(18:39):
concept hey, let's do this,let's do a certification and
it's turned into a realcommunity driven effort to
really enhance and reform anindustry, and that's what's
really exciting about this.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
No, that's awesome, and so you know we were talking
a little bit about some of thebenefits that you know, if
you're already in the industry,how this will help you be better
.
Right, so you can take courseson WernkopfCollegecom to help
you get better at what you do.
You know, taking into accountmore of that psychological
factor and kind of the softskills and other things as well.
(19:12):
Are you using this as anattraction to get people into
the industry?
Are you finding people that areoutside of the industry are
finding this website and findingthese courses and taking them
so that they can break in?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I'm going to let our chief mentor and provost handle
that particular question.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, it's been very, very fun to be involved in some
mentoring groups to again kindof get access to these property
and casualty independent agentsor adjusters who are looking for
a change.
We're reaching out.
We've had conversations withcolleges and universities, with
community colleges, even with anorganization that deals with
(19:51):
high school students, because,again, we can't count on people
to find us involuntarily anddecide that we have to kind of
go in the byways and highwaysand try to recruit them in here,
and so it's been reallyinteresting when you expose the
fact that this, yes, it's highlyregulated, yes, it can be
antagonistic at times.
Yes, it's very paper-orienteddriven.
(20:14):
Yes, there's a lot of stuffthat maybe you have to say no in
very challenging circumstances.
All of that is true.
Your life may be challengingfrom a day-to-day standpoint
because you're asked to do toomuch, because you got too many
claims on your day.
That's the reality of work comp.
But what our pitch is, it's avery noble purpose If you are
someone who's driven by apurpose-driven life, that wants
(20:37):
to make a difference, that wantsto be the tenderfoot that Bob
never was.
I was the tenderfoot.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
I never went beyond that be the tenderfoot that Bob
never was.
Oh no, I was the tenderfoot, Inever went beyond that.
I achieved tenderfoot status.
You know, got it, got it yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
Yeah, I've seen you walk.
Don't undersell me, pal yeah.
I've seen you walk.
You definitely have tender feet, yeah thank you.
But the whole concept is, youknow, recruiting people for that
noble purpose and explaining,yes, this is the reality of what
you're getting yourself into.
And yes, nine out of 10conversations may be why did I
jump into this?
(21:10):
But that 10th conversation,when you help someone who is
completely disillusioned,completely confused about the
system, doesn't have a supportsystem at home that helps them
in that recovery process,doesn't have a support system at
home that helps them in thatrecovery process, is trying to
figure out how to meet, havefinancial ends meet, because
they're getting two-thirds oftheir paycheck and they have to
make challenging circumstancesand you arrange for
(21:31):
transportation, you make it veryeasy for them, you explain what
the doctor told them so thatthey understand how to do that.
That 10th out of 10 times paysfor the nine times when it was
maybe a very challengingcircumstance and that allows you
to go to sleep at night andhave a.
You know, to wake up in themorning and be excited about hey
, maybe today is the day I getto make a change.
(21:52):
And so changing the vernacularof what work comp is into the
insurance regulatory drivendriven, it is all that.
But it is also that opportunityto legitimately make a positive
difference in someone's life.
That may not just be their life, but maybe generations.
Because if you get them back towork and get them back to
financial wholeness and back totheir family, now their kids are
(22:17):
not dysfunctional becausethey're not raised in a
dysfunctional system, they'regrandkids.
So you can have a generationalchange by making a difference in
that particular person and somaking that argument to people
that want to make a difference.
Hey, workcomp actually is agreat place to do that.
That's really the argument.
So having those discussionswith people that are trying to
(22:38):
figure out what they want to bewhen they grow up and I'm 63,
and I'm still trying to figurethat out, right, we all kind of
mature at different levels andfigure out what we want to be,
but we're trying to give thosepeople young in their career
this is an opportunity to reallymake a difference.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Well, I think, though , and specific to your question,
Todd, we're a young school.
I don't know why my camera justdid that.
By the way, I know this is anaudio portion, but it
occasionally zooms in and outyou need to pay your cameraman
better Geez, I need a bettercamera.
I have a crew that follows meall the time, you know, so they
pan and zoom.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
But it is pretty cool .
They got you good on that onethough.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, they did.
Makes me look very, very fat.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
All I can say is I'm glad you have pants on Bob.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah, well, me too.
You know it was a 50-50 shot,but you lucked out today.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Knowing you, I don't doubt that.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Specifically, though, you know we're a very young
school.
We've been around actuallyonline a year and a half
basically but we have at leasttwo specific instances where we
know of young professionals whohad insurance experience but no
workers' comp experience, havebeen looking to get into
workers' comp and not been ableto find the right opportunity.
They've gone through ourcourses and, since having
completed our courses, havelanded good jobs at two very
(23:53):
well-respected and well-knowncompanies we're.
You know I can't say we didthat, but I'm very happy to be
part of that equation and Ithink we are trying to help
people who want to come into theindustry, to give them a
foundation that can help themget into that position.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
You know, mark, I'm glad you mentioned about, you
know, the effect that the familyhas when somebody comes back to
work or becomes whole again,right, because I think one of
the things I know was a kind ofan eye-opening experience for me
during the pandemic was howeverything is connected.
And I don't think people alwaysrealize that, right, you know,
like I didn't get toilet paper,not because there wasn't toilet
(24:31):
paper, but because this truckcouldn't get here, because this
person wasn't there, becausethis part of the country was
closed down, and you know it wasall just a big circle.
Right, and it's absolutely true.
With human beings Everybody isconnected and that's how and
this sounds kind of hokey, butthat's how sometimes, passing
(24:51):
somebody in the hall, you smileat them, you make them smile,
you make their day.
That could change that person'skid's life for the rest of that
day, right?
So you never know how thelittle things that you do can
impact others and moving onforward.
So I'm glad you brought that upbecause that's so important to
remember, especially when you'rehaving a crappy day and you
don't want to treat people nice,when you realize that you could
(25:13):
have such an effect on them andso many others just by doing
that small thing that might takea little bit of effort.
I'm really interested in kind ofthe nuts and bolts of
workcompcollegecom now.
So what is the commitment like,like, do I have to take like a
whole, you know, like six-weekcourse?
Can I pick and choose?
(25:34):
What are some of the optionsthat are available now for folks
that might be listening, thatare in the industry and folks
that might be listening that arenot?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Well, that's a great question, because I would be the
market, I would be the firstpeople to tell you that what we
offer today has changed evendramatically over what we
originally envisioned when westarted talking about this, you
know, about two years ago.
We now have, you know, actuallythree official certification
programs available.
We have the workers' recoveryprofessional certification 64
(26:04):
courses, about 51 hours oflecture content.
It is a structured program,it's a self-driven program, but
that is a defined program.
We have an associate level thatcontains 19 courses, about 15
and a half hours of content,designed really for people who
need to understand the basics ofworkers' comp but are not
necessarily assisting injuredworkers or managing claims on a
(26:25):
day-to-day basis.
We have an MSPA, a MedicareSecondary Payer Accreditation.
Now that we did in partnershipwith Sanderson Firm.
That's been very successful tohelp bring education to the
people responsible for Medicareset-aside and those Medicare
secondary payer situations.
But what's really been mostunique in the last year was our
(26:50):
realization that we could parcelout elements of our training
for individual customizedtraining.
So today, if you come to us andsay I just want to take this
one course, that reallygenerally is not available
online, but if an employer, forinstance, we just launched,
about three months ago, avirtual training center and we
did this for a fairly good sizedTPA who was very impressed with
(27:12):
our technology and our systemand wanted to know if we could
actually set up a similar systemfor them to house their own
custom content but bring inselect courses from work comp
colleges campus, not just fortheir workers comp people,
because they've already beenrunning people through the WRP
program, but for their generaland auto liability general
liability and auto people aswell.
(27:33):
And we set that up.
So we now host and manage avirtual training center for that
company.
That is a customized solution.
We have now a customizedsolution for the Office of
Injured Employee Council inTexas.
They're the ombudsman in Texas.
They have 72 people in thesystem with a collection.
They have their own homepagewithin our campus and their own
(27:55):
collection of our courses thatwe've made available that they
selected.
So we are customizing solutionsfor employers based on their
individual needs.
We just launched a program a fewweeks ago called CompStart
Onboarding really focused Again,it can use the VTC, the virtual
trading center, or it can use acustom solution built within
our campus to integrate contentand customize those solutions.
(28:19):
So you as an individual, maynot be able to come and say,
look, I just want to take youremotional intelligence course.
That's not something we've madeavailable yet.
But as an employer, you couldcome and say I'm really
interested in having these sevencourses developed into a custom
program for X number of my newhires, because we're onboarding
them and they don't.
That's one of the things we'rerealizing is we're all running
(28:39):
around trying to find new people.
I one of the things we'rerealizing is we're all running
around trying to find new people.
You know it's.
I don't know about you, but Ihave a lot of friends that are
retiring and I am Mark's elder,by the way he mentioned.
He's 63.
By two months, no three weeksprobably, I'm like three weeks
older than Mark and I demand therespect of an as an elder.
You, young whippersnapper, youbut it?
(29:00):
Where was I going?
Before I even joke, See yourmoment already Squirrel,
squirrel, no people, people, myfriends are all retiring and I
don't understand it, becauseit's similar to Mark, who's
still, you know, the kid tryingto figure out what he wants to
be.
I have similar attitudes and I,until I look in the mirror.
I don't understand why peopleare retiring.
(29:21):
It's like, oh yeah, I'm not 30anymore, but we need to find
these people to come into theindustry and I think we have the
ability, with some of ourcontent, to now customize
onboarding solutions so that, no, they don't know anything about
workers comp.
We can take care of that.
You can train to your specificprograms and your specific
policies, and if you want to putthat in a video program, we can
(29:44):
help you with that or we canactually host it for you.
But if even not, we can takecare of that workers' comp
component so that they betterunderstand not just the industry
, but where they fit it's myhands that do it with the camera
but where they fit within thescope of the industry.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
You're throwing people off on an audio-only
podcast.
I know it's an audio program.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
My camera automatically tracks me and
zooms, and if I talk with myhands it zooms way out and I
look like a big bowling ballwith a head parked on top of it.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
We may put this on YouTube just because of that.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
I'm glad I'm wearing pants then Well, if you put it
on they could see you do have aradio background because you
have that enormous microphone inthe image.
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Thank you very much.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (30:32):
And you know, todd, I think what we have learned over
I mean, literally, our firstbusiness meeting was Memorial
Day of 2022.
So we're just coming up onbasically two years of kind of
putting the business plantogether and so forth.
And I think what has been sofun for me and I won't speak on
behalf of Bob and Donald, but Ithink they probably feel the
(30:54):
same way is we listen to themarketplace, we look for
opportunities and we respond.
There's a certain point whereyou don't have critical mass,
you don't have enough courses,you don't have enough faculty,
you don't have enough students.
You know you can put all thisstuff together and go, okay,
great, whatever, but we havereached critical mass and all
those different things.
So we can treat each individualcourse as an individual asset
(31:17):
and then respond to the industry.
And I think you know, fromproduct development standpoint,
it's really cool to be able tohave conversations with people
at conferences or on Zoom callsor Teams calls and go.
You know what?
I'm really struggling with this, or have you ever heard of
anything that does this?
Or you know?
And it sparks an idea.
And Bob, donald and I meetevery Monday in a board of
directors meeting and we come upwith ideas that we heard, like
(31:40):
the associate certification.
Literally the fourth time Iheard somebody go you know what?
Wrp is great, but 64 courses,51 hours of content, that's way
too much for my particular rolein understanding the breadth.
Fourth time I heard that we gottogether and go, hey, we need
to come up with a skinnierversion that maybe not as deep
but it still is as broad, thatgives people that opportunity
(32:02):
and open up people, ops,operations, people, salespeople,
hr manager, people that don'thave necessarily the time to
commit to 64 courses but can do19 courses and maybe over a
couple of three week period.
And so that's what's fun frombusiness owner.
You know, founding partner,whatever you want to call it,
it's our baby, it's Bob andDonald's and my baby.
(32:25):
We have a board of trusteesthat have been great advisors to
us.
We got deans that have helpedus craft the curriculum.
We've got faculty, obviously,but it really comes down to the
three of us and we're justkeeping our ear to the ground in
regards to what is themarketplace looking like.
And it's really cool to be ableto go hey, now that we've got
critical mass, now that we'vegot all these different assets,
(32:46):
how can we do.
That's where the comps startonboarding.
We kept hearing from a couple ofour clients were doing this as
a part of their onboardingprocess.
It's like, well, that's a termthat we hear a lot, that people
don't have a grasp of.
Why don't we do a particularcustomized version of that that
people can kind of wrap theirheads around, rather than having
them connect the dots, weconnect the dots for them and
(33:09):
say this is a customizedplatform.
So I think you know that's thefun part of now.
You know, two years into abusiness plan, our business plan
is completely different.
I mean, it doesn't even hold ahold a candle to what we
originally talked about Day 2022, just because we've been
adaptive to what we hear fromthe marketplace.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
Any thoughts of doing anything that would be like
employee or injured workerfacing?
It's funny that you mentionthat.
I guess not because you pulledit straight up in the air.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Can we edit that pause out?
Yes, we will.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
It's funny that you mention that, because we do have
a voice of the provider, whichis in partnership with Brooks
Rehab.
That's talking about all thedifferent disciplines outside
the paywall completely availableWe've done 21 episodes on that.
Completely available We've done21 episodes on that.
We're working on a voice of theinjured worker with
re-employability.
That will be a similar kind ofstyle podcast thing that is
(34:07):
going to be telling the storyfrom the injured workers
perspective, and we do have acouple of faculty members that
are injured workers themselveskind of telling that story, you
know as we're having HR managers, HR managers coming back to us
and risk managers are going.
How can we kind of how can youhelp me kind of figure out this,
this whole process?
Speaker 3 (34:33):
So it's a part of that process of continuing to
listen to what the industry isdoing, and, you know, have a lot
of publicly available resourcesin our outreach center, and
Mark has already covered some ofthose between webinars and
articles and things like that.
The injured worker, though,generally, is a very hard
population to reach, and peopleget mad when I say this.
(34:55):
Some people get very mad.
There's no one who reallyspeaks on behalf of the injured
worker.
Okay, everybody, even unions,can have conflicting needs and
priorities over their specificinjured workers.
I know a lot of attorneys andthere are some really good
personal injury attorneys orplaintiffs attorneys who are the
real deal, but even they, ifthey're not careful, their
(35:17):
incentives can be misalignedwith that of the workers they
represent Very tough audience toreach.
When I was withworkerscompensationcom for many
years, we had a discussioncenter that was open to anybody,
an online discussion center.
It was absolutely dominated byinjured workers.
They seemed to have a littlemore time on their hands than a
lot of us.
Every once in a while, aprofessional would wander in and
(35:39):
try and offer advice.
It was like watching Bambi bedevoured by a pool of angry
piranha.
It was not a pretty sight, butand unfortunately after I left
the company, that discussionforum was removed, which was, I
think, unfortunate because itwas an education as to for me as
to how injured workers view thesystem, what happens to them in
(36:01):
the system and there are.
There are a lot of really goodpeople in our industry.
There are bad players, as thereare in any industry, and when
they had bad experiences andjust the way they viewed things,
it was a, it was a greateducation.
But even they're very tough toreach and very you know.
The thing that a lot of peopledon't understand, a lot of
injured workers don't understand, is, you know, we have
(36:22):
responsibilities to the injuredworker.
We are obligated morally,ethically, legally,
contractually to do things forinjured workers.
They also have responsibilitiesin their own recovery and that
is one of the hardest things toconvey and that's one of the
things that we focus on in someof our training.
But that's really we have tofocus with the professionals to
get that done because we canreach that professional audience
(36:44):
.
The injured workers are prettywidespread.
Without that organized entitythat can bring them together,
there is no institute of injuredworker that you can go to, a
conference and teach or learn ordiscuss, and that's one of the
challenges I think we have as anindustry.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, for sure.
And the reason I brought thatup and it just popped in my head
.
My wife is a teacher.
She fell off a stool in herclassroom about a year ago, hit
her head.
She was fine, but obviously itwas a work comp claim and had I
not been in the industry shewouldn't have had a clue about
what was going on.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And that was kind of the direction of my question.
I don't know if any clients ofyours, any companies that work
with you, have looked into somekind of a portal for someone
that they could just send a linkto for an injured worker to
just learn the high level, likethis is the process, just for
people to understand, I thinkactually that would be an
(37:43):
excellent idea to producesomething like that that just
explains process and things.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I don't know.
We would have to find veryreceptive employers.
There's a lot, unfortunately,from an injured worker's
perspective.
Sometimes there's mistrust foranything that comes from the
insurance company.
Okay, you know they aren'tgoing to trust that necessarily.
Now, if they like theiremployer, they will probably
trust what is sent to them bytheir employer.
(38:10):
That would be an interestingthing.
And here again, we do listen andI'm sure Mark and I will be
discussing this after the callis is could something be done to
be made available on this iswhat happened.
This is what you can generallyexpect.
These are your rights andresponsibilities generally.
I mean, we'd have to make it apretty high level overview
because they're all different inevery state.
(38:30):
We did, you know.
I know we have one discussionwith one very large company that
has a lot of franchisees in thecountry about developing
specific training for theirfranchisees on how to go about
managing workers' comp claims,because you know claims
professionals can tell you thatsometimes an employer is their
(38:50):
own worst enemy.
They will torpedo a claimbefore the adjuster even knows
there is one.
With the way they behave, withthe way they act, the way they
treat the injured worker.
So you know that project didn'tcome to fruition.
But you know something thatcould be made available on a
basis to an injured worker tohelp explain and familiarize
(39:13):
them.
Probably not a bad idea if wecould get companies to use it
and we could do it in a neutralperspective that people would
trust.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Yeah.
So what do you have looking ayear from now?
Hopefully we talk in less thana year, but if we sit down a
year from today, you can tell mewhat happened.
What do you guys have plannedfor workcompcollegecom.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Well we are.
I will say that's very hard tosay because if you'd asked me a
year ago what we'd be talkingabout today, I wouldn't have
been able to tell you.
Some of it I can tell you.
Let me just quickly I'm goingto tell a few numbers we're
really proud of.
We're a year and a half in andwe have 500 people more than 500
people enrolled in our programs.
(39:53):
We have 180 people who havereceived certifications,
actually more than that.
Now, if I add in the MSPAnumbers, probably 195 people
that have received ourcertifications.
Very pleased with that.
Compared to what maybe otherorganizations may have achieved
in their initial launch, we hada great response.
We are working.
(40:16):
Gee Mark.
Should I talk about the projectwe're working on at the moment?
I probably should.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
Yeah well, I was going to tease that there's a
new certification coming out,probably later this summer, that
we can't disclose.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Well, yeah, it will be a certification and it's very
large and it's something thatpeople deal with in every state
in the nation.
Along the medical front, I'lltell you it's along the medical
front.
Okay, that's enough, Bob.
That along the medical front,I'll tell you it's along the
medical front.
Okay, that's enough, bob,that's enough.
No, that's okay.
That's okay.
But, yeah, we're working on anew program.
You'll need to check back withus later this summer and we can
(40:49):
talk about it a little more.
But, yeah, we're excited bythat.
That's one of the things we'reworking on.
We really are looking to roundout, we have an area called ATEC
Prime, which is our AdvancedTraining and Education Center.
It's really designed for thosepeople who have been through our
certifications to maintain thatcertification.
Continue education offers a lotof courses.
We're busy expanding thatfeature.
(41:09):
We are working.
We'll be announcing in a coupleweeks a new AI-powered
assistant that will actually beable to answer questions based
on the multitude of documentswe've uploaded through not just
our campus but also elsewhereonline.
That will just be an AI-poweredassistant.
And this summer I'll plug theWCI conference in Orlando.
(41:33):
We are producing the first evertechnology track at WCI.
We'll have four sessions onthat Wednesday and we encourage
everybody to plan to attend.
And, by the way, those peoplewho are certified through us
will get continuing educationcredits for attending the WCI
technology track section.
So those are some of the thingswe're working on this coming
(41:54):
year.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Super cool.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
Yeah, I would add that there are probably going to
be even more customizedimplementations, because that
seems to be the trend for us, ofemployers going hey, I've
already got something, can youaugment it, can you add to it?
How can I incorporate what I'vealready got with what you've
got?
So we've got kind of a hybridmodel.
(42:17):
So that's something that we arecertainly going to be embracing
.
So if we were to do this nextFebruary or whatever, hopefully,
rather than the two that we'retalking about, with Office of
Injured Employee Counsel and theTPA that's doing the virtual
training center, maybe we've gotfive or ten different
implementations and each one ofthem are different because the
(42:39):
needs of the employer isdifferent, the training needs,
where they're coming from, whatthey already have.
But I agree with Bob, we're asgood as a magic eight ball at
this point as far as trying topredict the future, because
we're listening constantly.
We're talking on a weekly basison what we're hearing, trading
ideas back and forth.
(43:00):
We have discovered that thereare no bad ideas until they have
been proven.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
So, yes, we have proven a couple of things.
We've proven a couple.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Yeah, we have learned the hard way on some of those
cases.
So we're going to continue toexperiment and continue to
expand and you know, I thinkthat again that's what's fun, uh
, in being involved, um, withtwo guys that I really respect
in the board of trustees anddeans and faculty and students
and stuff.
This community that we'regrowing, we really want it to be
(43:30):
, a community we're we'releaning into maybe, um, some
more interactive things as well,like office hours for faculty
members that would be free andopen to students to go.
Hey, they're going to be herefrom three or four o'clock on a
Wednesday afternoon, you knowZoom meeting.
Would you like to join?
There's a variety of differentthings.
We're talking about projectsthat we can work on as a group,
(43:54):
like an incubator, you know,kind of system.
So we're kind of continuing tolean.
Those are a little bit early inthe new one, you know, in of
system.
So we're kind of continuing tolean.
Those are a little bit early inthe new, you know, in the
development phase.
But you know we're we'reconstantly reinventing ourselves
.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Well, I used to say the same thing in my last
company too is the benefits ofbeing a small company is you can
gather people together in aroom and come to a boneheaded
decision much faster than alarger corporation.
As Mark said, there are no badideas until they're proven bad.
And we've had some great ideasand we've had some less than
stellar ideas, but it's all beenfun and I think the bottom line
(44:28):
is we have a very seriousbusiness, but we're never going
to take ourselves so seriouslythat we can't enjoy ourselves
and try things and be willing tomake some mistakes in the
process.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Well, I think you guys both really pulled it
around full circle here, becausewe're talking about learning
never stops, and the only wayyou're going to learn is by
making mistakes, and coming upwith ideas is a giant amount.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
I'm highly educated by now by the way.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, well, unfortunately, I think too many
people are just so afraid to dothat, and that's all part of the
process.
Whether you're 20, 50, 50 or 70years old, it's okay to try new
things and it's okay to jump inwith both feet, and if you fail
, you fail, but at least yougave it a shot, right I think a
lot of people have heard of FOMOfear of missing out.
Speaker 4 (45:11):
But there's another one that I just recently came
across.
I'd never heard of it's FOMOfear of messing up.
And fear of messing up willwill keep you from entertaining
ideas, keep you from tryingdifferent things because you're
afraid of what the repercussionsare.
You know the repercussions forus is, you know we make a, we
(45:34):
make a mistake and go sorry.
You know that didn't work.
This is not a life or deathcircumstance.
You know we, we we're not,we're not making those kind of
decisions.
But I, I would advocate forpeople to get rid of fomo fear
of missing out.
Um, because that's a sense ofcomparison that is never good.
Um, as as good a car as youdrive, you can always find
(45:54):
somebody that's driving a bettercar.
Comparisons never work.
But fomo is definitely adestabilizing, um, almost, uh,
you know, a freeze kind of amode where your fear of messing
up and you're you're afraid ofmaking that next move.
We have not been afraid ofmaking that next move and I
think we're evidence of you knowthree older guys reinventing
(46:15):
themselves.
Uh, you know, uh, some bychoice, some not, not by choice,
but um, you know we werewilling to step out and if we
can be somewhat of a model or aguide or an inspiration or
motivation for other people thatneed to step out and do
something different or acautionary tale or yeah, yeah,
(46:37):
hopefully we're still here anduh, paying the utility bills so
we can be on Zoom with you inFebruary of next year.
But you know, if we could be amotivation, because there's a
lot of people that are stuck andthey're they're, they're not
happy.
That's what happened with thegreat resignation during COVID.
All of a sudden they go why amI doing this?
This is stupid and they decidedjust to bail.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
There's a lot of people that are stuck in
positions that don't make sensein careers that don't have a
good journey ahead of them, thathave bad work life balances,
and I would advocate like, hey,if you get the opportunity,
don't be FOMU, you know, takethat opportunity of making that
next step.
Yeah, that's a great way towind things up, mark work comp.
Collegecom is the website.
If anybody, if we haveemployers or carriers out there
that want to talk to you guysabout stylizing some platforms
for them, is that the best wayfor them to get ahold of you is
through the website.
Speaker 3 (47:34):
They can go to work comp collegecom.
There is a contact form theycan use.
Our toll free number is there.
Our email addresses are listedthere.
They can email us through thesite.
So yeah, like I said, we'rehappy to have phone conversation
.
We're happy to set up Zoomcalls.
We talk to people all the timeto answer their questions.
(47:55):
Sometimes it's better to havethat face-to-face call and we
prefer that sometimes because wecan answer those questions more
quickly than you can through aseries of email exchanges.
But anyway, whatever theirpreferences, we're there to
easily communicate with, I think.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Right, bob Wilson and Mark Pugh from
workcompcollegecom.
Yeah, I'll tell you what.
10 years ago, if somebody saidyou're going to interview two
guys about a website thateducates people on workers'
compensation, I'd be like, oh,that's going to be thrilling,
yay.
And, quite honestly, I lovetalking to you guys.
It's always fun to get you onand I actually kept you longer
(48:30):
than I expected and I appreciateyour time and appreciate
everything you guys do and wewill definitely get together in
less time than a year.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Sounds great.
Thank you, todd, we reallyappreciate it and appreciate
your support and the opportunityto talk.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Thanks guys.
Alexa, did you go to college?
Speaker 1 (48:48):
I didn't go to a school, in particular, but
living in the cloud is liketaking a perpetual online course
.
My credit hours are off thecharts.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask you
for a glass of milk.
When you give him the milk,he'll probably ask you for a
straw, and when he's finishedhe'll ask for a napkin.
Then he'll want to look in themirror to make sure he doesn't
have a milk mustache, and so onand so on.
Learning should always producenew questions, and so on and so
(49:17):
on.
So here's to your never-endingjourney in learning.
Hopefully we inspired you totake some action today.
Thanks for listening to REAAudio.
Please make sure to follow uson Spotify or Apple Podcasts or
Stitcher or wherever you getyour podcasts.
We appreciate you.
Have a great rest of your week.
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