April 3, 2025 • 59 mins
Debbie Lundberg takes you on an inspiring journey of self-discovery, resilience, and the power of kindness. From overcoming perfectionism to embracing purposeful living, she shares how personal branding, emotional intelligence, and strong communication shape both our professional and personal lives.
In this episode, Debbie explores how modern communication bridges generational gaps, why intentional kindness is more important than ever, and how small, meaningful actions—like donating a kidney—can create lasting ripple effects. She reflects on lessons learned from hurricane devastation, the importance of active love in times of crisis, and the transformative impact of gratitude.
She also offers powerful strategies for having difficult conversations with both kindness and accountability, as well as the best way to provide meaningful support to others.
For more insights, connect with Debbie at debbie@debbielundberg.com and tune in to The Business of Life Masterclass Podcast.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do you get better at what you do?
Time management assistance.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
AI.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Webinars Mentors.
Open platforms like CourseraLive and virtual Live training.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Live course Live training Live course, live
training, live training, livetraining, live training, live
training.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Live training, live training, live training, live
training, live training, livetraining, live training, focus,
communication, regulation anddirection.
Rea Audio.
So, debbie Lundberg, you'vebeen on REA Audio.
(00:28):
It was a long time ago that youjoined us.
Yes, and just kind of on a whim.
I was talking to Deb Livingston, the owner and CEO of
Reemployability, and your namecame up and I thought, you know,
there's a lot going on thatDebbie and we can talk about,
and so I'm so glad that it waslike super quick.
You know there's a lot going onthat Debbie and we can talk
about, and so I'm so glad thatit was like super quick.
You're here.
What I love about your LinkedInprofile and this is a great way,
(00:51):
I think, to kind of introducewhat it is that you do for folks
that are listening.
I'm just going to read it.
So it says embracing andencouraging lifelong kindness,
growth, fun and ROI.
As a two-time TEDx keynotespeaker, author, performance
coach, facilitator, eqi 2.0,60-plus round-per-year golfer,
(01:12):
living kidney donor and fullyrecovered perfectionist, that's
a lot.
So how do you unpack that?
Tell us about what it is thatyou do.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, thanks for asking.
And what that is is a lot ofpeople don't realize that
LinkedIn doesn't have to only beyour job title in that first
part.
So, as a lifelong learner, Ifully admit that I took a class,
because there's no reason notto.
So, as LinkedIn evolves, I'lltake courses and figure out what
(01:42):
you know.
What can I do to enhance andimprove my profile?
And I admit that there was atime when somebody used my
profile as the sample, as theexample of a really good,
thorough profile, and he waswriting a blog post.
So I do pride myself in stayingon top of it.
Not that it's perfect, becauseI am a fully recovered
(02:03):
perfectionist.
So, to unpack it, the first partabout embracing lifelong
kindness all of that is what Icall my personal tagline.
If we have a glass of watertogether, a cup of tea, if
you're a client of mine, anassociate, if I'm volunteering
for your organization, you canexpect that that is how I show
up.
And so your personal brand ismost important, because
(02:26):
everybody has a brand.
Whether you formalize it or not, people realize what you're
consistently doing, and if youdo your own personal brand,
you're accountable to yourself.
So that's the first part.
The next, many, many things area bit of that.
Getting to do a TED Talk is ahuge honor.
Getting to ask twice isincredible, and I got to also be
(02:48):
the emcee for one, which wasalso really an unusual
experience.
And I do so much workpresenting powerfully.
All of our coaches and speakersdo a lot of work with public
speaking and presentation skillsand so that plays into it.
But that was so much fun and somany people dislike public
(03:08):
speaking.
I mean comedians have jokedabout it for years.
It's the number one fear ofAmericans, and Jerry Seinfeld
said if you were doing theeulogy at someone's funeral,
you'd rather be in the box thanstanding next to the box.
So there's all of this about thebrand presenting powerfully,
because we believe how youpresent is how you are
(03:30):
remembered.
So I'm a golfer.
I have golf since I was four,started playing competitively
since I was six, traveledoutside of the United States to
compete when I was 11.
And my husband and I usuallyplay golf every week.
For who mows the lawn?
And we'll talk a little bitabout that later.
So all of that in there, fullyrecovered perfectionist is
because people who say they'reperfectionists, you know that's
(03:54):
their choice, I'm not knockingit.
They tend, though, to live intwo states, really, todd, and
for all your listeners,satisfied which they can't see
me, but my hands up here, likethis level of okay, I'm
satisfied it went how I wanted,or unhappy and dissatisfied and
frustrated, which is themajority of where they are,
because so much is not going toplay out precisely how you
(04:18):
planned or wanted it.
And so, getting through that inmy younger adulthood and in the
maturization of realizing thatI was difficult to be around
because I wanted things to beperfect, so that was a that was
a hard realization and yet ajourney that has not ever ended
(04:39):
and hopefully never will.
So fully recovered perfectionistis.
It doesn't mean I give myselfexcuses to make errors.
It means I realize everybody'shuman and it's a lot more fun in
this life.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So talk about your company, what you do, and then
how did that come about?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Sure.
So Presenting Powerfully isabout to be 19 years old and it
stemmed out of I worked forGeneral Motors for years, loved
it.
I also trained a world-renownedtraining company, became their
instructor of the year for 11 ofthose 14 years that I was at GM
.
So that combination of thebusiness acumen and the people
(05:18):
side, I thought somewhere in mylife after retirement I would
use it.
I didn't realize I would retireat 33.
Somewhere in my life afterretirement I would use it.
I didn't realize I would retireat 33.
I met my husband blind date,good match, and didn't think
that he would not want to moveall over the country like I had.
And yet he's younger than I amand he went through school back
(05:38):
to back.
So our corporate lives were atdifferent places and he's like
well, if that's what you want,we'll live separately, we'll
make it work.
And I thought that's not whatwe want in our marriage.
So, to his credit, he saidyou'd be great at this.
And I said I want to do it, butI don't know if somebody's going
to listen to me at that age.
And he said do it, it'll begreat.
So, instead of quitting, I dida retirement, and that was an
(06:10):
unusual experience.
That really it's giving up thetitle, giving up everything to
move forward, and I loved thepeople I worked with, because
people will hear that andthey'll say, oh, you didn't like
the rat race.
I loved it and I love what I donow.
And so now we have coaches andspeakers who work primarily in
the United States, and we workon communication, behaviors and
relationships number one.
Number two, leading andleadership.
(06:31):
Number three is emotionalintelligence and kindness, and
the fourth one is where I do alot of the work Others do too,
though.
It's the whole dynamic ofrelationships and even family
dynamics.
So, working with dealers andworking in organizations that
have family members, there's alot of communication and
(06:53):
personality challenges andopportunities.
So those are the four areas wework in and we deliver keynotes
and talks, strategy andfacilitation, teaming and
training, and then we docoaching and consulting so where
, where do you think we are withhuman communication now?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
you know, you hear all over about how you know
younger generational people inyounger generations have
difficulty communicating becausethey were so brought up with
texting.
And do you feel like we ashuman beings are losing that
ability to connect with eachother?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So I get asked that question a lot.
I don't know that we're losingour ability to do it.
We may be losing our interest,which is more concerning to me,
because words aren'tcommunication and it doesn't
take a lot of words, it doesn't.
You don't have to be verbose toget a message across.
So we focus a lot on how wordsimpact people, because if we're
(07:53):
not interested in connectinglike you and I both said, we'd
love to be in person and thatwas exciting For some people
that's intimidating and we dowant to respect and meet people
where they are.
So it's an interesting dynamic.
When you look at the fivegenerations in the workforce,
we're, with our pre-baby boomers, the greatest generation,
silent generation.
(08:14):
There's only about 2% now andthat's a little bit sad.
But it also changes our dynamicwhere our largest workforce and
I know you know all of thisthey're the millennials.
But our millennials are split.
Older and younger millennialshave very different
communication styles too.
And then we go into Gen Z andit's so encouraging because, to
(08:37):
your point of people complainingor being concerned that there's
too much texting and technology, they're seeing that picking up
the phone or going and meetingwith somebody has value.
Now they're using it in workmore than personal.
So it's a long answer to Ibelieve there's hope and if we
can stay interested and stayopen-minded that people
(09:00):
communicate differently, we'renot gonna lose it.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
It's cyclical, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It is.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
It seems like there's so many things in life that
I've noticed are like a pendulumright, we swing in one
direction and then we have torecalibrate, but instead of
stopping in the middle, we keepgoing to the other end, right,
yes, and it's been like thatkind of with communication as
well.
It's interesting you talkedabout the generations that are
currently in the workforce, butyou skipped over gen x.
(09:25):
It seems like gen x always getsskipped over, just kind of as a
joke, because you know that,but I I would say we're probably
both in that, in that group,right we're both in gen x and
they.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's the smallest generation, it's the latchkey
kids we tend to have.
If we don't process throughthat, like I did, and again
consistently learning, there'sthat sense of being neglected.
There's that sense of if I'mhere longer, I should get
recognized.
That's not the dynamic of theAmerican workforce though now,
(09:59):
or the work culture.
The work culture is get the jobdone and do it well, and if you
can do it faster and you stillget it done, then go take care
of other things.
And so Gen X.
Some people in Gen X havegotten frustrated and even lost
in the fact that if I put in mytime, I should get rewarded.
But I like to remind peopleit's a performance test, not an
(10:20):
endurance test.
So the generations have changedand they'll continue to change.
There's never been a generationthat didn't think the next
generation was going to ruin theworld anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And here we are, we're okay.
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
So talk about.
Tell me about your TED talks.
How did you get invited to thatand what's that process like?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, it was a wonderful invitation and being
asked to talk first, I was.
It was open, they're open toanything and Beth Sikoski was
took on TEDx West Shore, whichwas terrific, and she's a really
spectacular human being who hasa great sense of humor, a
wonderful sense of grounding andknows about everything you can
(11:03):
about compliance.
So she is very complex and yetreally appreciates the human
spirit.
So when she invited me, therewas no way I wasn't going to say
yes.
What you probably don't evenknow, even though we talked a
little bit before, is the timingon the TED Talk was six weeks
after the kidney donation wassix weeks after the kidney
donation.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh right.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And so there was the pandemic.
We were still having it and Iwas still not quite myself.
So that first one I was veryexcited about and I've coached
people and I've gotten to do itand even I remember playing in
my headset constantly the talk,because you don't use any notes,
(11:47):
it's supposed to be a one take,which is what I did.
So this was a room a little bitbigger than what we're in and
for the listeners it's not a bigroom.
It's lovely, it's just not hugelike you think of.
And I asked if my husband couldcome, so he's in a mask.
I took my mask off, didn't evenget to look in a mirror,
delivered it to the camera andleft.
(12:10):
That was about care leaders whocare C-A-R-E.
I do a lot with acrostics.
Now engineers can't stand it,so with my engineering firms I
just make it one, two, three,four.
The C is communication, the Ais appreciation, the R is
reciprocation and the E isexpectations.
(12:31):
So if we communicate,appreciate and reciprocate, we
can come together in expectationand that is a very good way to
lead.
But we don't get to doexpectations without the others
and not have people feel verydisconnected.
So that was the first one.
You know, mask off, speak, maskback on.
I mean hobble a little bit,because I wasn't as mobile,
(12:55):
although I was.
I mean I was running at thattime but very, very slowly.
So the next one, when I wasinvited, I did be the kind of
leader, k-i-n-d leader worthfollowing and I got to even
bring in the fact about the I do.
The K is know, like Socratessaid at first, and best know
thyself If you don't knowyourself.
(13:16):
There's a bit of that impostersyndrome or phoniness, and so I
work through that the I'sinclude others sincerely.
There's a lot of insincerityout there and it's okay.
If you don't want somebody tocome, don't invite them and
complain.
They're there.
And then the N is nudge pastnice.
You and I were probably, andmany of your listeners were
brought up if you have nothingnice to say, say nothing.
(13:37):
I say if you have nothing kindto say, do something kind to get
yourself in that mood.
You know, it's not aboutniceties, it's about true
connection.
And the D is do somethingbigger than yourself.
And that's when I got to talkabout that kidney donation and
Michael got to be there in thebig room with all the cameras
and all the people and you know,seeing people's eyes light up
(14:01):
about being kind to themselvesfirst was a joy.
So that led to a lot moreengagement on kindness and I
didn't realize there was akindness industry.
It feels a little bit of astrange combination, maybe a
strange juxtaposition, to havekindness and the word industry.
But I met so many of thosepeople through Lee Clark
(14:21):
inviting me to do the LivingKindly book that you and I were
talking about before we were onair, and how incredible that she
thought of that collaborationand was kind enough to include
me.
So I've really been invited toall of these things and, like I
said, beth is just terrific andLee bringing us together, that
having a voice for kindness ledme to know Francesca Dolan, who
(14:46):
she's doing every day ofkindness this year, and she's a
professor at Florida Gulf Coastand does a whole class on it,
and so it's fascinating thatwhen you really get involved in
something, you meet so manyother people who you can learn
from.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
You mentioned a kindness industry and it seems a
little weird, and so I've gonethrough travel baseball with my
son he's in his 20s now.
He's in the Army.
He's gone and then travelsoftball with my daughter and
now going through travelvolleyball with my youngest
daughter.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh my gosh, she's athletic.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Oh, I know, and that's why I'll probably be
working until I'm 90 years oldto pay for all of it.
But what I, you know, I call itmy old man thoughts.
But I'm like you know, when Iwas a kid and I played baseball,
we wore jeans, we had a T-shirtthat was sponsored by the
plumber down the street and weall brought a wooden bat, or
there were three wooden bats forthe whole team to use, and that
was it right.
(15:44):
Yes, and now there's such anindustry built around.
You know baseball for youth andsoftball, and name the sport
right um gymnastics.
You know volleyball, thevolleyball tournament we were at
this weekend.
We were on court 52 of 58 courtssplit between two areas in
Tampa here and people came therewere, you know, there were
(16:08):
Winnebago's out back, peopledrove from Georgia and other
States.
So you know it's a big thing,it's a big industry.
But I think, you know, when Ithink about it and the old man
in my head goes ah, we didn'tused to do it that way, I think.
But you know what?
There was a need right At somepoint someone saw a need in
youth sports to make it bigger.
(16:29):
You know, now my 11 year olddaughter has media day with her
team.
So they spend a whole eveninggetting pictures to and, and you
know I'm like, really do wehave to do all this, but think
about how special it makes themfeel.
Think about, you know, the, the, the lessons that they learn
and the bonding with theirteammates.
So it's a good thing.
(16:50):
But going back to the kindnessindustry, there's an industry
because there's a need, rightand, and that you know, god
bless America because we're ableto develop an industry around
something where there's a need.
So that's great, that that hasevolved and is hopefully helping
people to learn how to bekinder and have kindness in
(17:11):
their lives.
Talk about the book.
It's called Kindly Living.
It's essays collected by LeeClark and yours is one of them
in there.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Talk about that, yes, yes, Thank you.
Well, first thank you to yourson and for your family for his
service.
That's wonderful.
I mean, that is part of how weall get to be here doing what
we're doing, so that's muchappreciated.
So the Living Kindly CollectionLee Clark started years ago
with Do Pay Away, Lay Away.
I believe it was called andforgive me, Lee, if you're
(17:40):
listening and I say it slightlyoff so I heard about her.
She was on the Today Show.
We ended up meeting years lateron the same speaking stage
where we were at different times, and then she invited me again
to be part of the collection.
I'm typically a yes person, sowhen she asked, I said yes.
So the collection there's manyEuropeans in there and that's
(18:02):
where I learned about theindustry.
Like you said that, I believeit's stronger in other parts of
the world.
And hopefully we're picking upon that, which is terrific.
So I asked her if I could writeabout the share your spare idea
of sharing a kidney and shesaid yes, and Corey Wamsley is
(18:25):
the person who is the editor andpublisher and she's really
terrific at what she does too sothat she could pick what order
to put them in.
But there was no expectation ofcontinuity other than trusting
Corey and Lee, and when you readit, it's really fascinating to
think about somebody who's hadan abusive situation or a drug
(18:47):
addiction or an organ donationor a struggle at work in how at
the core of moving through iskindness, and so that's really
what the collection of essays isall about.
And I got to meet those peoplevia Zoom, as you were saying
earlier, and yet I've stayedconnected with some of them and
(19:07):
certainly wish them all well,but that expanded the
opportunity.
When I read their posts andtheir blogs and their vlogs and
their things that it's like, oh,that's another way to think
about kindness.
So, yeah, it was a reallyspecial experience and it also
allowed us to be bestsellingauthors, and that's one of those
.
I don't put that on there, lee,though I know she's really
(19:29):
proud of that, that it's part ofwhat she's doing with other
topics is allowing people tohave a voice to be heard and get
that recognition, so to speak.
And so that's being kind toyourself to say some of the
people will not do other books.
I happen to have other booksand yet it was fun to see
everybody get excited about onecollection.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So why did you donate your kidney?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Because I could and that's a strange people say
that's a weird answer, it reallyI don't have a better answer.
Nor do I apologize for theanswer, because I have been an
organ donor on my license, whichis through Donate Life.
Wherever I lived throughout theUnited States, I registered for
it.
My husband and I became bonemarrow, were on the registry for
(20:16):
that because there was a needin the family and we weren't
matches, and so I heard aboutthis.
I started before the pandemicand then the pandemic came and
they asked me if I wanted tocontinue at Tampa General
Hospital because they said thisis you know, we don't know how
(20:36):
long this will take, we don'tknow all of this.
And I said sure.
And they said will you donateto anyone?
Because I'd heard aboutsomebody who needed the kidney,
who I wasn't friends with oranything, and I said, oh, I
didn't really know how thatworked.
I thought you'd just draw myblood and tell me if I could do
it or not.
And they said, oh, no, no, thisis far, far bigger.
(20:59):
It's bigger than that.
It's bigger than that, and so Ichose to go through it.
And I remember I was onHenderson Boulevard in Tampa.
(21:27):
I called my husband.
I said I can't explain it.
I believe I'm going to be akidney donor.
I believe I'm going to be.
And he said whenever you say itsounds crazy, she's, she's and,
forgive me, I think she's incharge of everybody in the blood
draws hematology.
And she said to me I rememberwhen I was leaving I said, okay,
thanks, you know, take care,she goes.
I hope to see you again.
And I remember thinking peoplesay it all the time she really
meant it because she knew thatif she saw me again, that meant
somebody she'd been seeing foryears was going to get a kidney.
(21:49):
And it really struck me howimportant her sincerity and,
like her, love for her job orher work or whatever you want to
call it.
And they were all consistentlykind to me when I went in there
whatever you want to call it.
And they were consistently kindto me when I went in there.
And it was awkward as heckbecause you're six feet away
(22:11):
from people and those are peoplewho are really ill, so I was
just not wanting to get nearanybody because you could tell,
mostly because of the strain onpeople, and so it was a very
unexpected experience and at thesame time planned because of
the peculiarity of the timingand my husband knew from the
(22:35):
start and then I wasn't going totell anybody because I said
it's not my story to tell it'sthe person who receives this
kidney.
That was apparently neverreally mine.
I just housed it for a bit andthen I got the paperwork and
Todd you have to have two peoplewho say they will take care of
you after, okay, and if anythinggoes wrong and it's a little
(22:55):
daunting, yeah.
So my running partner at thetime, lynn.
We were doing 10,000 stepsbefore sunrise, and so I chose
to tell her and then drop it onher that I'm asking her to sign
that she'll take care of meRight.
And so it was an interestingsecret, so to speak.
And then we met before I askedif we could meet a half an hour
(23:20):
before We'd had a Zoom with thewoman who received the kidney
and we'd been in two groupstogether before that's how I'd
heard about it, but never morethan a hello.
She's a baby boomer, I'm Gen X,she's a foodie, I'm an athlete.
She's got this beautiful,perfect little dog and we have
(23:40):
rescue labs and they're like allover the place, and it was a
lesson.
And then I get to share this insome medical clients and
facilities that you know, younever know the connection, even
though it may not go beyond that, and there's only two people
who are really happy to go intoa hospital.
They're delivering healthybabies or they're donating
(24:01):
kidneys, and the rest of thepeople are really not in their
best place.
And so if we would remember thatin our lives, like that guy
might pull out in front of me,he may have had a really bad day
at work and I didn't.
So it's not to say I don't everget upset.
It's a really interestingperspective, though, of
(24:22):
somebody's like.
That apparition is going tochange the entire dynamic.
And then, when my husbanddonated six months later, the
man who received the kidney inthat situation he has five
children and his wife theyhadn't left Tampa Bay in, I
think, five years.
He would work 10 to 3, then goto dialysis from four to eight,
(24:46):
then go home, go to bed and hedid that for those five years
Now, since they have gone onsomething like 21 trips.
I mean it's fascinating and Ilove sharing Michael's story of
it because it's such an.
It was just so unusual and tosee their whole family.
(25:07):
It doesn't just affect oneperson, it's like donate blood,
get on the anything anybody does.
It doesn't only donate orimpact, excuse me, that person.
Kindness doesn't only impactone person because it does have
a ripple effect.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So so what's amazing to me and I think sometimes
people are skeptical about otherpeople trying to help them, and
I don't want to use the wordself-help because I don't like
that term.
I don't know if you do, I can'timagine you do, but it's not my
favorite.
But in what you do, I know thatthere have been others that
(25:45):
have not necessarily lived whatit is.
They don't practice what theypreach.
I know you do because yourecently experienced quite a
significant impact in your life.
We've mentioned a couple oftimes we're in Tampa and we were
affected by two hurricanes backto back.
Yes, some people were affectedmore than others in this area,
(26:07):
but you all were affected prettyseverely with the first one
that came through.
Can you tell your story with?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
that?
Sure we were, and it was.
You know, we live in a placethat we loved and it wasn't a
large home, it was a 1956 homeand where we are there had not
been a storm there, there hadnot been water ever in it.
There, you know, there's.
We're close to water.
So, to set the stage, so we'devacuated many times and this
(26:36):
time we chose not to because werealized that the last time we
had a storm some water came up.
But we said, oh, we're going todo this plastic around and
protect ourselves.
And then we had a game plan Ifanything were to happen worse,
we'd go across to our neighbors.
And you know we had a plan.
So we really were not expectingit, as you know, and most people
(26:58):
weren't, and it was supposed tocome in the middle of the night
and by 8.30, 9 o'clock therewas a tiny bit of water, not
just in one room but in ourhouse.
I mean, it happened at adifferent time than we expected
and very quickly, and within 45minutes it was up to my calf,
and I mentioned our rescue lab,daisy, and so we're putting her
(27:20):
up, but she's not normallysupposed to be up on any
furniture, so she would attemptto jump down.
We're attempting to grab somethings.
Yeah, she's a joy, we call herjoy wrapped in fur.
Then what happened is it wascoming so fast that we were
quickly deciding do we go out onthe bar, do we?
Well, we better go across tojim and kimberly's, which is
(27:42):
what we chose to do now.
We did that protection so wellof the plastic that it was up
like a foot.
So when Jim came across, wecouldn't get the door open.
And we're at Bay to Bay and sothere's a park in the very
middle and we never, everrealized in the 20 years we
lived there that it really dipsdown.
So I remember looking out thewindow and Jim was wet, but I
(28:05):
thought, well, it's raining, andI had grabbed a bag and Michael
had daisy, but we couldn't getthe door open.
We finally got the door openand he said you can't take that.
And I said to Michael there's alot of water is going to come
in when you open the door.
And he said can you swim?
And I said what?
And he said can you swim?
I said yeah, I've donetriathlon and I can swim, but
(28:27):
what do you mean?
Like we're not going in thepool?
And he said Debbie, at the this, fast across the street in the
middle.
He said it's, it's up to, Ithink, his neck and I'm five
foot two.
So so then we realized wecouldn't.
He goes you can't take that bag, you can't take anything.
So it was literally just whatwe were wearing and for some
(28:47):
reason I took my shoes off.
I still wonder about that I tookmy shoes off and put them up.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
They do that in movies you know right, like when
they jump in the water to savesomebody, they always take their
shoes off.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Take their shoes off.
I'll pay attention to that.
So as we got out there, thankgoodness, michael realized that
the water wasn't clean water.
I mean, you know, you're justnot.
So he held Daisy up over hishead and I said you guys go
ahead.
And then I had to swim at onepoint because it was over my
(29:18):
head and I mean I never expectedthat.
At the same time, it wasn'tanything we'd done wrong or
unexpected.
And so it was this realizationthat the flooding was real.
And then I'm a realisticoptimist or an optimistic
realist, and I said to Michaelthis is going to be one of the
biggest things we ever gothrough, if not the biggest in
(29:40):
our lives.
We want to assure that.
It's going to be frustrating,it's going to be all these
things.
We've got to decide, if we'rein, what we want to do, because
most families aren't going tohave this conversation.
And I remember and Michaelwon't mind my saying this, but I
remember his lip quivering andseeing his face and he's like
what are you saying?
And I said I'm not saying Iwant out or you want out, but if
(30:02):
you ever think there's a timeyou don't want to move forward,
we will make or break at thispoint because we are team
Lundberg, but this is somethingwe never expected.
And so we had that conversationabout you know what's going to
happen.
I mean, we're thinking we'll beable to fix it.
So we're thinking that way andknowing that would be very
(30:23):
taxing and I made a post.
I chose to make a post on thatFriday, which was September 28th
, and said you know, the househas had, there's a 12-foot storm
surge.
It settled around four feet.
We don't know that we can saveanything, but if anybody's in
the area, if you can come, 30people showed up.
And the next day I made a postabout bringing boxes because
(30:47):
things that were up on the wallin our clothes.
So 12 families took our clothesand washed them, which saved
them from that salt water.
And then I realized that thepaper boxes were getting.
It was so damp.
So, then I asked for clear binsand people were sending Ubers
with bins and showing up.
We had 50 people there from onesocial media post on Sunday by
(31:09):
2 pm, our entire home again nota large home out at the street
and we were waiting for theinspector to come from FEMA.
And I said to my husband youknow what we just experienced?
And he said what I said activelove.
I said this is not peoplesaying let me know what I can do
.
People couldn't get across thebridges so they had delivery
(31:31):
services send us stuff.
People showed up who'd onlyever heard me speak once and
follow and it was incrediblytouching and so that loss I
would not wish on anyone and Iknow there are a lot of people
who've experienced it it also bypeople doing so much.
We were able to donate clothesbecause we had a lot of clothes
(31:52):
and and they were able peoplewashed my running shoes and I
mean they just took everythingand brought it back.
And so we're in an apartmentand you know we're not able to
repair our home.
It has to be torn down, whichmeans trees.
You know a hundred and someyear old oak trees have to go.
But we have those memories andI have this group that we call
(32:13):
the Awesomeness Squad, and theyjust rallied and even some of
them showed up and I said, ifyou have other friends, even
though I love you and it's great, go to them, because we have so
much support.
And I'll tell you, some daysit's weird that we're living the
lives we're living, but notevery, not any day do we are not
grateful for it.
So when you have that loss, youcan feel very, very much a lack
(32:39):
in a sense of.
I said sometimes it must bewhat perhaps homeless people
like you see people with a cartand people say what are they
doing with all that stuff?
And I'll say that's what theyhave, though Like don't judge
what they have, because thoseare their things.
And I remember thinking, gosh,you know, I want to give away
this stuff because I don't wantto have that sense and and you
(33:02):
know it'll be, there'll be.
We call our home the Lumisphere.
So now we're in what we callLumisphere light, right, right,
and then we'll have Lumisphere2.0.
But it'll take a while.
You know, we wouldn't havechanged anything about our home,
and now it has to be acompletely different home.
We still get to take thememories, and I think if, in
that position, when somebody hasthat like I go places now and
(33:28):
every once in a while I'm verysocial, as you can probably tell
and you might remember frombefore people will ask things
and I don't want to answer them,and yet it's that reminder.
They haven't been having thisconversation for 144 days like I
have.
They want to know right now,and they mean well, and
sometimes it's that generosityof grace that takes a lot of
(33:48):
emotional intelligence, and innot being perfect, do I snap
every once in a while?
Sure, I also have the ability,though, to go to them and say
please forgive my shortness,because you meant well, I don't
over explain it, though, and Ithink that's part of the
kindness of being kind toyourself too is there's people
who have lost.
I mean, you work with peoplegetting back into work, you work
(34:10):
with people with that loss, andso, if we can remember that, in
each instance, we meet them asa human, not as the condition
we're in, but as the human beingthat they are at the core, so
do you think, because of thebusiness and what it is that you
do, is that what helped centeryou?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I need to be reminded of everything that you just
said.
I get into situations and mypersonal personality is that I
tend to go dark very quick and Ihave to make a conscious effort
to stay positive, Whereas Ithink for some people make a
conscious effort to staypositive, Whereas I think for
some people it's natural, butsometimes that natural takes a
(34:57):
lot of work right.
So how would you explain orhelp someone who may be
listening that might not begoing through anything as severe
as what you've gone through,but maybe it's the day-to-day
grind that just gets them downand they're really struggling
with staying positive and theyhear living kindly and they go
right, I mean how do you takethat step and how do you
maintain that level?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
of positivity.
Well, I think people will besurprised to know mine is not
natural, it's learned.
I was wired very much to becompetitive and very much about
accomplishment.
Now I still like accomplishingthings.
It was in undergrad when Irealized.
I asked my roommate a questionand she said you know, nobody
wants to get on your bad side.
(35:38):
That's the reason they dothings for you, and I thought
what a horrible way to live mylife Somewhere.
I must have known, though, thatit wasn't that attractive, and
so I made a conscious effort tochange that, and so it's work it
is.
You can't ever change how you'rewired.
We get to thank or blame ourparents and grandparents and our
ancestry for that, and some ofour environment.
(35:59):
We do get to change how wepresent.
I don't believe in fake it tillyou make it, and sometimes
people are surprised by that.
I believe in make it about whatyou're doing and learning right
now till you make it to thenext step.
Make it to the next step.
So, to answer your question,absolutely that the way that we
choose to live our lives in thework I get to do positioned me
(36:21):
for this.
It positioned me to get to theTED Talks too though.
So the good and the not so good,the really fun and the not so
fun, we do what's called tap andI introduced it to my husband.
I've always done what I callgrin and grat.
Like the alarm goes off at 431and I grin.
I smile and I think ofgratitude, like grin and grat.
And as I'm walking, this was inthe house that we had before
(36:44):
there was this walkover becauseI would put my phone in the
bathroom so that it was forcedto get up and there was no blue
light.
So I said, what about doing tapwith me?
And he said well, what's tap?
I've heard you talk about it andit's when you first, in the
morning, you talk about whatyou're thankful for and you set
up your accomplishments for theday, three or four only.
So do you want to accomplishbeing kind to a person who's
(37:08):
challenging, so it doesn't haveto be a really measurable.
So it's a little bit different,because goal setting, you want
measurables and in the evening,the last thing before we go to
sleep, no matter how tired orhad a glass or two to drink,
it's what are your positives?
And there's no wrong positivein that you can tap into
positivity and and mindset byensuring that you don't let a
(37:30):
day pass because you're right,there's work in it, and most
people don't ask me like you didand they assume and that's,
that's okay.
They assume, well, you wereborn that way or that way and
and I I don't know what it wouldbe like if I had, so I don't
wish for that.
At the same time, going throughthe process of the letdowns and
(37:54):
the frustrations and being angrybefore and disappointed, it's
so much lighter and it's been,you know, two-thirds of my life
now and I'm a work in process,as we like to say.
And so when you go dark orothers who are listening, or
it's the grind of the day, likeyou asked, give yourself credit
Like what have you done welltoday?
(38:15):
Because you've done somethingreally well, even if you let
somebody out in front of you ata light or you held a door.
I mean every act of kindness,and there's a quotation about it
that I'm not going to rememberexactly.
So there's no act of kindnessthat's wasted, is in effect, and
if you believe that, youcontinue to achieve it.
(38:36):
I don't believe in the mindsetof if you think it, you can do
it and you can do anything,because nobody from the WNBA is
asking me to play basketball forthem, even if I really really
wanted to.
So I think we've also you talkedabout that pendulum earlier.
We swing to this.
You can do anything you want,and I'm over here saying you can
do anything you're capable of.
So if you weren't able to danceballet, don't beat yourself up
(39:02):
if you missed a step in thecha-cha that you're doing in the
evening with your spouse,because you're there to have fun
.
You're not there to win atrophy or to, so it's a keep a
perspective.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Realistic, optimist.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Realistic optimist yes.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
So we've been talking about not really getting into
some into details, some somehigher level kind of perspective
things.
What we really try to bring onthis podcast is some specific
things that people can do tohelp make themselves better at
what they do or in their lives,because I think those things are
connected.
Right, I can take the things Ilearn and implement every single
(39:38):
thing that I learned doing thisat home, and it makes me a
better dad and a better husband,no doubt about it.
So you know, thinking of peoplein workers' compensation
adjusters, risk managers most ofthem have very high levels of
work that they have to do,managing hundreds of files at
the same time, but alsounderstanding that these files
(40:01):
aren't just numbers.
They're human beings behindevery file, right, and so I came
up with a couple scenarios thatI was going to throw at you and
kind of see how you might helpthat person in what they're
trying to do.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Love it, you game Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
All right.
So here's number one.
An employer is approaching anemployee about a personal issue
that's been impacting their work.
So how do you have thatconversation?
As an employer, you have to sitdown with somebody that you can
tell that they're slacking off.
How do you have that difficultconversation?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
First, before you meet with them, is you check
your anger and frustration, yourdisappointment, because you got
to remember and I'm sure you do, todd that almost no one in the
world says how can I do a badjob at work today, and sometimes
we forget that.
So, with clients or in thisscenario, because I've had
(40:54):
clients in this scenario they'relike I'm so frustrated, they're
not pulling their weight, andI'll say what else is pulling at
them, though, and it's not toexcuse the behavior.
So if they said to the person Ilike to tell people, give
purpose before your position,purpose before your position.
If it were you and me, let'ssay Todd, and I wasn't
(41:16):
delivering, If you said to meDebbie, you're not cutting it,
you know, I don't know what'sgoing on in your personal life,
but you've got to straighten up,I wouldn't feel supported and I
would feel worse, because I'malready failing at home and now
I feel like I'm failing here.
If, instead, you said Debbie,because I care about you, I've
blocked a half an hour, an hour,whatever it is to talk to you
(41:37):
about you as a person.
Now, look, I get it.
Hr different things.
I'm talking you and me as twopeople who care about each other
.
Are you willing to share withme what's happening, because I'm
guessing there's somethingthat's going on outside of here
(41:58):
that is impacting here.
Now we'll get to the stuff here.
Most importantly, though, areyou okay, and what does okay
look like to you, and then closeyour mouth and listen?
So I like to say you want toask, listen, confirm and honor.
So if you asked me that and Isaid you know what?
(42:21):
Our dog is really sick, and theperson who usually watches our
dog is not available to, I'vehad people say I can't believe
it's an animal, and I'm likewhoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
So if you said okay, how can weassist?
Could working remotely assist?
Is there?
Could we temporarily and tellthem it's an exception?
There's nothing wrong withsaying it's an exception.
(42:44):
If, though, they're really notin the end you say they're not
up to speed, offer your EAP,offer what is included in their
benefits.
Also, though, figure out a wayto have them not in that dynamic
where they don't feel pushedout though, because for some
people, if they're not in thatwork environment, the work
environment may be the one thingthat they thought was working.
(43:06):
So you don't want to risk yourbusiness for this person's
actions, but you never want tosacrifice a human at the results
of work.
So when you come to them since,first of all, it has to be
sincere, secondly, it can't berushed, third, it has to be a
safe space and you tell them youcare first and you mean it.
Then you go through the ask,listen, confirm and honor, and
(43:29):
you figure it out together.
If they are at their wits endand they say they don't know
what to do, then say I'm goingto do this.
So if it's, you're going tohave HR get in touch with them
or you're going to grant themtheir leave or their PTO or
whatever it is, and if you don'twant that, by the end of the
day, send me a text or an emailand I'll change it.
(43:51):
We too often say to somebodywhat can I do for you?
That's a to-do on their list.
When we are in thesechallenging times and say I'm
not performing well and our dogis ill, I don't know what you
can do.
So either tell them what you'redoing or give them choices
after you listen, because if Isay to you, look, I'm not doing
(44:12):
well, but I'm out of PTO, youprobably have the ability to let
me adjust.
If, though, I think I'm doingreally well, you're going to
want to approach it differently.
If I'll say what are youtalking about?
I've gotten everything done ontime, then you want to show, say
(44:39):
I can see where that could be,that could have been seen
through your eyes.
You don't want to ever lie, youdon't want to ever miss.
If I'm in an altered state, youcan appreciate how I would see
that, even if it's going offsite, because you know they love
coffee, but they, you knowsomething, and I don't like
people calling thoseaccommodations or coddling.
I call it being human, andhuman kindness matters.
So, in those scenarios, I'd sayprobably more than 90 percent
if I went back and looked atclients.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
If they're willing to do that, they resolve it, and
the person either stays or theperson leaves on good terms
because they were cared forthat's something that, in what
we do on a daily basis, one ofthose things that I think makes
an adjuster very cynical,because there's a small
(45:26):
percentage of people in thisindustry, from the employee
standpoint, that do takeadvantage of the system, and so
when those couple people takeadvantage of it, it instantly
trickles down to what we thinkeverybody's doing Right, and
that's not always the case.
So let's take another scenario.
It's very similar to that one.
So let's take another scenario.
It's very similar to that one.
But so I'm an adjuster and Ihave a sense that maybe somebody
(45:49):
is taking advantage of thesituation because perhaps
they're not doing what they'resupposed to be doing to help,
kind of participate in theirrecovery.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
So how do you have that kindness conversation and
not get taken advantage of?
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, kindness sometimes gets perceived as a
doormat, and I said call it awelcome mat, not a doormat.
So we welcome the truth andhonesty.
I don't ever encourage anybody,though, to compromise their
integrity or their sense of selffor another person.
Now, we can be a bitself-deprecating or we can be
humble.
So if that were the case andagain say it's you and I'm not,
(46:32):
I'm this person who's beeninjured or not participating in
how to get back to work, really,then you'd probably want to say
to me hey, debbie, you know,because I see a lot of things
and since you've had X amount oftime since your injury or since
you've been out of work, walkme through what challenges
(46:55):
you're having in getting back towork.
So, again, you're going to askfirst, and you notice you don't
say I care about you.
You say because I care aboutyou.
So everybody's favorite topic,whether they're doing the right
things or not, is themselves,and so if we don't lead with I,
we lead with the reason, likethe because or since.
Like I said, in both scenariosI'm more likely going to start
(47:18):
to talk about the challenges.
So if you say, walk me throughthe challenges and most
Americans don't love help, theylove to be served or assisted.
So if you think somebody is inthat situation, ultimately
you're going to get to it.
So I am going to get to if youreally feel that.
So at first, though, if you askme what my challenges are, I
(47:39):
say, ah, you know how it is.
It's difficult.
Nobody gives any interviews, soI give generalizations.
You want to say tell me aboutthe last time.
Oh, it always happens.
Well, tell me about somethingthat happened this week.
And then say tell me one time.
So you ask three times, and ifthey can't give you a specific
say, considering there's beennothing specific, what
(48:02):
specifically can I do to assistyou?
Because you know that ourrelationship is based on getting
you back to work?
And if I say there's nothing,it's just a bad job market in
Idaho, or it's a bad job marketin Tampa, or whatever it is,
then you do want to get to thatwhat I call kindly direct and
directly kind.
So you see, I like to say thesethings because kindness does
(48:25):
get a bit of a soft wrap.
So if you say you know what,and if it's you and you're
talking to me, you say you knowwhat?
Debbie, let's be straight.
I'm getting this sense thatyou're not doing these things.
How can you prove me wrong?
Let them prove you wrong.
Instead of saying I thinkyou're not doing this, say I'm
(48:48):
getting that sent, so pleaseprove me wrong.
What am I missing?
So that's direct and kind.
And then, if they don't, thenyou want to say to them you know
what?
These conversations, we canprobably agree, have been
pleasant.
They've been somewhatproductive.
If we don't resolve somethingthis time and we don't get a
(49:09):
plan that you start working, thenext conversation is going to
be very different.
I don't want us to have thatconversation.
We will have that conversation,though if it doesn't change.
Are we in agreement?
Okay, so now, fresh start.
Let's get a plan.
You got to give them a chanceto have a fresh start, to not
(49:30):
feel like it's hanging over them.
If, though, they don't do it,that next conversation is to be
about dissolving therelationship or how you would
move forward if it's fraud oranything like that.
So it's giving them the reason,giving them the opportunity,
asking them their challenges,seeing if you can assist, and
(49:52):
then being really clear.
Different conversation if thisdoesn't happen.
Plan, and, whether it getsexecuted or not, you know your
direction.
Very rarely do people say, oh, Icut that person off too quickly
.
We usually say I hold on toolong.
So if you're fair and you givethem that I have a client right
now.
She wanted to wait a very longtime with somebody not
(50:12):
performing I said I don't thinkit's going to work out.
I'd love for you to prove mewrong.
If you give him 90 days, though, I said a president gets 100.
People get 90 days on a reviewbefore anything.
This person's already been herea long time.
He may be missing out on a goodopportunity somewhere else.
So are you doing him a serviceby dragging it out?
(50:34):
And it's like well, people sayI hate to do it, you'll never
love doing it, but like the factthat you've been sincere with
another human being, and that'swhere that goes, todd.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
These things, these conversations, are so nuanced
and you would think that wewould be hardwired to be able to
have these conversations, butwe're really not.
It's definitely a learned skill.
It is.
You'd written a article, or Iguess it's an article.
It was printed, so it's anarticle right In the.
Tampa Bay Business Journal.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Tampa Bay Business and Wealth Magazine.
I'm sorry, Business and WealthMagazine Very close.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
yeah, and it had to do with words to say and words
not to say in certaincircumstances and when I read
through that they're so closeLike we were chatting before we
started recording about.
My sister-in-law was at hospiceand the nurses who are
(51:33):
wonderful people continued toask us how we were doing, and I
think that was the one complaintthat my father-in-law had
through.
That whole experience was don'task me how I'm doing.
But, it's just something that wenormally just it's force of
habit, right?
Can you recall some of thosedo's and don'ts that?
Speaker 2 (51:53):
you had in that article, Absolutely.
And Lauren Jarrett, who is anassociate professor with USF,
partnered with me on that andshe also.
She and her family lost theirhome and about 90% of their
belongings and she publiclystates you know, we're friends
and she's been a client and overthe years we've shared stories.
With this, though, Like yousaid, I mean you're going in to
(52:15):
see someone in hospice, so don'tsay how are you?
Just like a doctor's office.
Please don't say how are you?
Because you're about to checkthe blood pressure and people
have white coat syndrome, so sayglad you're here, so good to
see you, those type of things,when people would ask Lauren or
me, and still to this day, howare you?
Well, I'm doing day 144.
(52:36):
I made a little progress today.
And so instead of saying let meknow what I can do, it's so much
better to say I'm sending youan Amazon gift card to this
email address.
If it's different, let me know.
Otherwise you'll see it by 6o'clock.
Because if you say let me know,I mean I can take you back to
the kidney donation I had.
(52:57):
People say to me you never toldme I could do something, so I
never got to be part of it.
It's like well, forgive me forhaving my intestines moved
around and organ taken out andattempting to recover from it
and forgetting to send you amessage on what you could do.
And you can hear a bit ofsarcasm in my voice because when
people said that, I said youknow what, thanks for the offer.
(53:21):
It all worked out.
Because there's no point insaying to them oh my gosh,
you're giving me a to-do.
People say, thinking of you,let me know what we can do, and
what is really best is to figureout what you're good at.
So this is a funny story.
So a client and friend ended upgetting a surgery and I did
what I normally do.
I said saw that hope you'redoing all right If you're able
(53:45):
to, with what you're goingthrough, eat chili Michael makes
great chili or I'll drop a bagoff at your place on Tuesday and
I'll pick it up on Thursday.
If there's any laundry oranything.
If you leave it empty and younever touch it, you don't have
to see me.
So those are things that I said.
If I don't hear back from you,I'll drop off the bag.
(54:12):
So this person had nothing to doand he said I want the chili.
So I said to michael oh, hewants the chili.
And michael said you know, wedon't have a crock pot.
So I was like oh, so weborrowed a crock pot from from
the one of our awesomeness squaddon, and then he does his chili
, and so we're we normally dropit off.
And this person said could youstay and have dinner with me?
And so so we said, oh okay,we've never done that.
We make a chili for people, we,michael.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
I offer, he makes.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
So we go to take it.
And right before Michael putsthese sweet tomatoes in that are
in a can, and he said we don'thave a can opener.
So we were laughing and so Icalled the person.
I said we'll be here at thistime if you have a can opener,
and we'll be here at this timeif you don't, because we'll be
stopping to buy a can opener.
And he said well, I have a canopener.
And it was such a laugh becausewe naturally do that.
(54:55):
And yet we didn't have thestuff.
It worked.
And so you know, we figured itout, and my point of that is I
was a little flaky on my partand we figured it out.
And my point of that is I was alittle flaky on my part, and
yet it worked.
And we have a can opener nowand a crock pot.
So figure out what you'recapable of doing and don't
(55:16):
overextend, because mine waslike well, we figured it out, I
just asked somebody to borrowone and then do it.
I mean, it really is thatsimple.
But also, when you say tosomebody oh, that must be
terrible, or I can't imaginewhat you were going through, or
I'd be curled up in a ball in acorner.
There's nothing good that comesout of that.
People also say you know well,god wouldn't give you more than
(55:39):
you can handle.
That's really out of contextbecause it's not the whole
intention.
If you read through that,whether you're religious or not,
and so when people say thosethings they probably mean well,
but when you're thinking reallyI don't even have my own
toothbrush, but our dentist gotus toothbrushes I mean, you
(56:01):
think it's more of that.
If you really don't know what tosay, it's better to say
something to somebody because Idon't know what to say.
It's better to say something tosomebody because I don't know
what to say to you.
Is it okay if I give you a hugand if they say no, then don't
be mad, don't force a hug.
Or if you say because I don'tknow anything, the right thing
to say I'm just here and I'mthinking of you is so much
(56:21):
better than asking a questionwhen we've been part of a lot of
activity at MacDill andsomebody's writing a book about
the coalition.
I was on with him when I washeading here and he started
asking me questions aboutanother area in Tampa because
he's not here anymore and I saidI don't know, because the
devastation that happened by us.
(56:42):
We don't even live right thereright now and I know he was
curious, but I didn't have theanswer and I wasn't going to
attempt to figure it out,because you also have to be kind
to yourself and be all rightsaying thanks for asking.
I'm going over here now I saythat a lot People start to ask.
So in those do's and don'tsthat Lauren and I shared, it's
(57:04):
think about what you're reallysaying.
People say your place will bebetter.
You'll build a bigger, better.
Nope, didn't want a biggerhouse, didn't want better,
didn't want a bazillion dollar,but it's a building.
We don't want this hugemortgage.
As a Gen X, you know, and and soin everything we say, it
doesn't, it's not going to beflawless.
At the same time, if you're, ifyou have nothing nice to say,
(57:28):
as we talked about earlier, youdon't say anything nice.
If you have nothing kind,figure out something kind to do.
I mean actions speak louderthan words.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
So, debbie, if people are interested in getting a
hold of you now, you work withindividuals and organizations,
right?
So what's the best way to get ahold of you, and where can they
find your TED Talks and allthat other fun stuff?
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Thanks for asking.
Everything's at debbieD-E-B-B-I-E.
At debbielundbergcom you canfind our coaches, our speakers,
me.
They're all equally as good asI am better in some topics, so I
mean they have their expertise.
The TED Talks are on the TEDchannel.
Tedx on YouTube.
So and really, ted channel,tedx on YouTube.
So and really, I makeeverything public on Facebook,
(58:11):
that platform, because peoplecan access it.
If you don't mind seeing RescueLabs and Michael and me golfing
every once in a while, I do avideo tip every day.
That's all around kindness,communication, behaviors, so we
welcome anybody who wants tojoin along.
And then Barb Zant is mypodcast partner and Deb's been
on the show.
We might get you on there, todd.
(58:32):
That would be great.
So it's called the Business ofLife Masterclass Podcast.
So we ask the same questions ofevery guest and then we
implement them and report backon what we did.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
Love it, so we'd love to have you there and we're
nearing 250 episodes.
Congratulations, thank you andthanks for having me on here
again.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Of course, debbie, thank you very much you're
welcome, all right, we'll haveyou on again that sounds good,
thank you thanks for listeningto rea audio.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
I hope we opened up your brain a bit and helped you
be better at what you do.
Please follow us on spotify,apple podcast, stitcher Music or
wherever you get your podcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
How do you get better at what you do?
Time management assistance.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
AI.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Webinars Mentors.
Open platforms like CourseraLive and virtual Live training.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Live course Live training Live course, live
training, live training, livetraining, live training, live
training.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Live training, live training, live training, live
training, live training, livetraining, live training, focus,
communication, regulation anddirection.
Rea Audio.
So, debbie Lundberg, you'vebeen on REA Audio.
(00:28):
It was a long time ago that youjoined us.
Yes, and just kind of on a whim.
I was talking to Deb Livingston, the owner and CEO of
Reemployability, and your namecame up and I thought, you know,
there's a lot going on thatDebbie and we can talk about,
and so I'm so glad that it waslike super quick.
You know there's a lot going onthat Debbie and we can talk
about, and so I'm so glad thatit was like super quick.
You're here.
What I love about your LinkedInprofile and this is a great way,
(00:51):
I think, to kind of introducewhat it is that you do for folks
that are listening.
I'm just going to read it.
So it says embracing andencouraging lifelong kindness,
growth, fun and ROI.
As a two-time TEDx keynotespeaker, author, performance
coach, facilitator, eqi 2.0,60-plus round-per-year golfer,
(01:12):
living kidney donor and fullyrecovered perfectionist, that's
a lot.
So how do you unpack that?
Tell us about what it is thatyou do.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Well, thanks for asking.
And what that is is a lot ofpeople don't realize that
LinkedIn doesn't have to only beyour job title in that first
part.
So, as a lifelong learner, Ifully admit that I took a class,
because there's no reason notto.
So, as LinkedIn evolves, I'lltake courses and figure out what
(01:42):
you know.
What can I do to enhance andimprove my profile?
And I admit that there was atime when somebody used my
profile as the sample, as theexample of a really good,
thorough profile, and he waswriting a blog post.
So I do pride myself in stayingon top of it.
Not that it's perfect, becauseI am a fully recovered
(02:03):
perfectionist.
So, to unpack it, the first partabout embracing lifelong
kindness all of that is what Icall my personal tagline.
If we have a glass of watertogether, a cup of tea, if
you're a client of mine, anassociate, if I'm volunteering
for your organization, you canexpect that that is how I show
up.
And so your personal brand ismost important, because
(02:26):
everybody has a brand.
Whether you formalize it or not, people realize what you're
consistently doing, and if youdo your own personal brand,
you're accountable to yourself.
So that's the first part.
The next, many, many things area bit of that.
Getting to do a TED Talk is ahuge honor.
Getting to ask twice isincredible, and I got to also be
(02:48):
the emcee for one, which wasalso really an unusual
experience.
And I do so much workpresenting powerfully.
All of our coaches and speakersdo a lot of work with public
speaking and presentation skillsand so that plays into it.
But that was so much fun and somany people dislike public
(03:08):
speaking.
I mean comedians have jokedabout it for years.
It's the number one fear ofAmericans, and Jerry Seinfeld
said if you were doing theeulogy at someone's funeral,
you'd rather be in the box thanstanding next to the box.
So there's all of this about thebrand presenting powerfully,
because we believe how youpresent is how you are
(03:30):
remembered.
So I'm a golfer.
I have golf since I was four,started playing competitively
since I was six, traveledoutside of the United States to
compete when I was 11.
And my husband and I usuallyplay golf every week.
For who mows the lawn?
And we'll talk a little bitabout that later.
So all of that in there, fullyrecovered perfectionist is
because people who say they'reperfectionists, you know that's
(03:54):
their choice, I'm not knockingit.
They tend, though, to live intwo states, really, todd, and
for all your listeners,satisfied which they can't see
me, but my hands up here, likethis level of okay, I'm
satisfied it went how I wanted,or unhappy and dissatisfied and
frustrated, which is themajority of where they are,
because so much is not going toplay out precisely how you
(04:18):
planned or wanted it.
And so, getting through that inmy younger adulthood and in the
maturization of realizing thatI was difficult to be around
because I wanted things to beperfect, so that was a that was
a hard realization and yet ajourney that has not ever ended
(04:39):
and hopefully never will.
So fully recovered perfectionistis.
It doesn't mean I give myselfexcuses to make errors.
It means I realize everybody'shuman and it's a lot more fun in
this life.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
So talk about your company, what you do, and then
how did that come about?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Sure.
So Presenting Powerfully isabout to be 19 years old and it
stemmed out of I worked forGeneral Motors for years, loved
it.
I also trained a world-renownedtraining company, became their
instructor of the year for 11 ofthose 14 years that I was at GM
.
So that combination of thebusiness acumen and the people
(05:18):
side, I thought somewhere in mylife after retirement I would
use it.
I didn't realize I would retireat 33.
Somewhere in my life afterretirement I would use it.
I didn't realize I would retireat 33.
I met my husband blind date,good match, and didn't think
that he would not want to moveall over the country like I had.
And yet he's younger than I amand he went through school back
(05:38):
to back.
So our corporate lives were atdifferent places and he's like
well, if that's what you want,we'll live separately, we'll
make it work.
And I thought that's not whatwe want in our marriage.
So, to his credit, he saidyou'd be great at this.
And I said I want to do it, butI don't know if somebody's going
to listen to me at that age.
And he said do it, it'll begreat.
So, instead of quitting, I dida retirement, and that was an
(06:10):
unusual experience.
That really it's giving up thetitle, giving up everything to
move forward, and I loved thepeople I worked with, because
people will hear that andthey'll say, oh, you didn't like
the rat race.
I loved it and I love what I donow.
And so now we have coaches andspeakers who work primarily in
the United States, and we workon communication, behaviors and
relationships number one.
Number two, leading andleadership.
(06:31):
Number three is emotionalintelligence and kindness, and
the fourth one is where I do alot of the work Others do too,
though.
It's the whole dynamic ofrelationships and even family
dynamics.
So, working with dealers andworking in organizations that
have family members, there's alot of communication and
(06:53):
personality challenges andopportunities.
So those are the four areas wework in and we deliver keynotes
and talks, strategy andfacilitation, teaming and
training, and then we docoaching and consulting so where
, where do you think we are withhuman communication now?
Speaker 1 (07:10):
you know, you hear all over about how you know
younger generational people inyounger generations have
difficulty communicating becausethey were so brought up with
texting.
And do you feel like we ashuman beings are losing that
ability to connect with eachother?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So I get asked that question a lot.
I don't know that we're losingour ability to do it.
We may be losing our interest,which is more concerning to me,
because words aren'tcommunication and it doesn't
take a lot of words, it doesn't.
You don't have to be verbose toget a message across.
So we focus a lot on how wordsimpact people, because if we're
(07:53):
not interested in connectinglike you and I both said, we'd
love to be in person and thatwas exciting For some people
that's intimidating and we dowant to respect and meet people
where they are.
So it's an interesting dynamic.
When you look at the fivegenerations in the workforce,
we're, with our pre-baby boomers, the greatest generation,
silent generation.
(08:14):
There's only about 2% now andthat's a little bit sad.
But it also changes our dynamicwhere our largest workforce and
I know you know all of thisthey're the millennials.
But our millennials are split.
Older and younger millennialshave very different
communication styles too.
And then we go into Gen Z andit's so encouraging because, to
(08:37):
your point of people complainingor being concerned that there's
too much texting and technology, they're seeing that picking up
the phone or going and meetingwith somebody has value.
Now they're using it in workmore than personal.
So it's a long answer to Ibelieve there's hope and if we
can stay interested and stayopen-minded that people
(09:00):
communicate differently, we'renot gonna lose it.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
It's cyclical, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
It is.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
It seems like there's so many things in life that
I've noticed are like a pendulumright, we swing in one
direction and then we have torecalibrate, but instead of
stopping in the middle, we keepgoing to the other end, right,
yes, and it's been like thatkind of with communication as
well.
It's interesting you talkedabout the generations that are
currently in the workforce, butyou skipped over gen x.
(09:25):
It seems like gen x always getsskipped over, just kind of as a
joke, because you know that,but I I would say we're probably
both in that, in that group,right we're both in gen x and
they.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
It's the smallest generation, it's the latchkey
kids we tend to have.
If we don't process throughthat, like I did, and again
consistently learning, there'sthat sense of being neglected.
There's that sense of if I'mhere longer, I should get
recognized.
That's not the dynamic of theAmerican workforce though now,
(09:59):
or the work culture.
The work culture is get the jobdone and do it well, and if you
can do it faster and you stillget it done, then go take care
of other things.
And so Gen X.
Some people in Gen X havegotten frustrated and even lost
in the fact that if I put in mytime, I should get rewarded.
But I like to remind peopleit's a performance test, not an
(10:20):
endurance test.
So the generations have changedand they'll continue to change.
There's never been a generationthat didn't think the next
generation was going to ruin theworld anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
And here we are, we're okay.
Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
So talk about.
Tell me about your TED talks.
How did you get invited to thatand what's that process like?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Well, it was a wonderful invitation and being
asked to talk first, I was.
It was open, they're open toanything and Beth Sikoski was
took on TEDx West Shore, whichwas terrific, and she's a really
spectacular human being who hasa great sense of humor, a
wonderful sense of grounding andknows about everything you can
(11:03):
about compliance.
So she is very complex and yetreally appreciates the human
spirit.
So when she invited me, therewas no way I wasn't going to say
yes.
What you probably don't evenknow, even though we talked a
little bit before, is the timingon the TED Talk was six weeks
after the kidney donation wassix weeks after the kidney
donation.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Oh right.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
And so there was the pandemic.
We were still having it and Iwas still not quite myself.
So that first one I was veryexcited about and I've coached
people and I've gotten to do itand even I remember playing in
my headset constantly the talk,because you don't use any notes,
(11:47):
it's supposed to be a one take,which is what I did.
So this was a room a little bitbigger than what we're in and
for the listeners it's not a bigroom.
It's lovely, it's just not hugelike you think of.
And I asked if my husband couldcome, so he's in a mask.
I took my mask off, didn't evenget to look in a mirror,
delivered it to the camera andleft.
(12:10):
That was about care leaders whocare C-A-R-E.
I do a lot with acrostics.
Now engineers can't stand it,so with my engineering firms I
just make it one, two, three,four.
The C is communication, the Ais appreciation, the R is
reciprocation and the E isexpectations.
(12:31):
So if we communicate,appreciate and reciprocate, we
can come together in expectationand that is a very good way to
lead.
But we don't get to doexpectations without the others
and not have people feel verydisconnected.
So that was the first one.
You know, mask off, speak, maskback on.
I mean hobble a little bit,because I wasn't as mobile,
(12:55):
although I was.
I mean I was running at thattime but very, very slowly.
So the next one, when I wasinvited, I did be the kind of
leader, k-i-n-d leader worthfollowing and I got to even
bring in the fact about the I do.
The K is know, like Socratessaid at first, and best know
thyself If you don't knowyourself.
(13:16):
There's a bit of that impostersyndrome or phoniness, and so I
work through that the I'sinclude others sincerely.
There's a lot of insincerityout there and it's okay.
If you don't want somebody tocome, don't invite them and
complain.
They're there.
And then the N is nudge pastnice.
You and I were probably, andmany of your listeners were
brought up if you have nothingnice to say, say nothing.
(13:37):
I say if you have nothing kindto say, do something kind to get
yourself in that mood.
You know, it's not aboutniceties, it's about true
connection.
And the D is do somethingbigger than yourself.
And that's when I got to talkabout that kidney donation and
Michael got to be there in thebig room with all the cameras
and all the people and you know,seeing people's eyes light up
(14:01):
about being kind to themselvesfirst was a joy.
So that led to a lot moreengagement on kindness and I
didn't realize there was akindness industry.
It feels a little bit of astrange combination, maybe a
strange juxtaposition, to havekindness and the word industry.
But I met so many of thosepeople through Lee Clark
(14:21):
inviting me to do the LivingKindly book that you and I were
talking about before we were onair, and how incredible that she
thought of that collaborationand was kind enough to include
me.
So I've really been invited toall of these things and, like I
said, beth is just terrific andLee bringing us together, that
having a voice for kindness ledme to know Francesca Dolan, who
(14:46):
she's doing every day ofkindness this year, and she's a
professor at Florida Gulf Coastand does a whole class on it,
and so it's fascinating thatwhen you really get involved in
something, you meet so manyother people who you can learn
from.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
You mentioned a kindness industry and it seems a
little weird, and so I've gonethrough travel baseball with my
son he's in his 20s now.
He's in the Army.
He's gone and then travelsoftball with my daughter and
now going through travelvolleyball with my youngest
daughter.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh my gosh, she's athletic.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Oh, I know, and that's why I'll probably be
working until I'm 90 years oldto pay for all of it.
But what I, you know, I call itmy old man thoughts.
But I'm like you know, when Iwas a kid and I played baseball,
we wore jeans, we had a T-shirtthat was sponsored by the
plumber down the street and weall brought a wooden bat, or
there were three wooden bats forthe whole team to use, and that
was it right.
(15:44):
Yes, and now there's such anindustry built around.
You know baseball for youth andsoftball, and name the sport
right um gymnastics.
You know volleyball, thevolleyball tournament we were at
this weekend.
We were on court 52 of 58 courtssplit between two areas in
Tampa here and people came therewere, you know, there were
(16:08):
Winnebago's out back, peopledrove from Georgia and other
States.
So you know it's a big thing,it's a big industry.
But I think, you know, when Ithink about it and the old man
in my head goes ah, we didn'tused to do it that way, I think.
But you know what?
There was a need right At somepoint someone saw a need in
youth sports to make it bigger.
(16:29):
You know, now my 11 year olddaughter has media day with her
team.
So they spend a whole eveninggetting pictures to and, and you
know I'm like, really do wehave to do all this, but think
about how special it makes themfeel.
Think about, you know, the, the, the lessons that they learn
and the bonding with theirteammates.
So it's a good thing.
(16:50):
But going back to the kindnessindustry, there's an industry
because there's a need, rightand, and that you know, god
bless America because we're ableto develop an industry around
something where there's a need.
So that's great, that that hasevolved and is hopefully helping
people to learn how to bekinder and have kindness in
(17:11):
their lives.
Talk about the book.
It's called Kindly Living.
It's essays collected by LeeClark and yours is one of them
in there.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Talk about that, yes, yes, Thank you.
Well, first thank you to yourson and for your family for his
service.
That's wonderful.
I mean, that is part of how weall get to be here doing what
we're doing, so that's muchappreciated.
So the Living Kindly CollectionLee Clark started years ago
with Do Pay Away, Lay Away.
I believe it was called andforgive me, Lee, if you're
(17:40):
listening and I say it slightlyoff so I heard about her.
She was on the Today Show.
We ended up meeting years lateron the same speaking stage
where we were at different times, and then she invited me again
to be part of the collection.
I'm typically a yes person, sowhen she asked, I said yes.
So the collection there's manyEuropeans in there and that's
(18:02):
where I learned about theindustry.
Like you said that, I believeit's stronger in other parts of
the world.
And hopefully we're picking upon that, which is terrific.
So I asked her if I could writeabout the share your spare idea
of sharing a kidney and shesaid yes, and Corey Wamsley is
(18:25):
the person who is the editor andpublisher and she's really
terrific at what she does too sothat she could pick what order
to put them in.
But there was no expectation ofcontinuity other than trusting
Corey and Lee, and when you readit, it's really fascinating to
think about somebody who's hadan abusive situation or a drug
(18:47):
addiction or an organ donationor a struggle at work in how at
the core of moving through iskindness, and so that's really
what the collection of essays isall about.
And I got to meet those peoplevia Zoom, as you were saying
earlier, and yet I've stayedconnected with some of them and
(19:07):
certainly wish them all well,but that expanded the
opportunity.
When I read their posts andtheir blogs and their vlogs and
their things that it's like, oh,that's another way to think
about kindness.
So, yeah, it was a reallyspecial experience and it also
allowed us to be bestsellingauthors, and that's one of those
.
I don't put that on there, lee,though I know she's really
(19:29):
proud of that, that it's part ofwhat she's doing with other
topics is allowing people tohave a voice to be heard and get
that recognition, so to speak.
And so that's being kind toyourself to say some of the
people will not do other books.
I happen to have other booksand yet it was fun to see
everybody get excited about onecollection.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
So why did you donate your kidney?
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Because I could and that's a strange people say
that's a weird answer, it reallyI don't have a better answer.
Nor do I apologize for theanswer, because I have been an
organ donor on my license, whichis through Donate Life.
Wherever I lived throughout theUnited States, I registered for
it.
My husband and I became bonemarrow, were on the registry for
(20:16):
that because there was a needin the family and we weren't
matches, and so I heard aboutthis.
I started before the pandemicand then the pandemic came and
they asked me if I wanted tocontinue at Tampa General
Hospital because they said thisis you know, we don't know how
(20:36):
long this will take, we don'tknow all of this.
And I said sure.
And they said will you donateto anyone?
Because I'd heard aboutsomebody who needed the kidney,
who I wasn't friends with oranything, and I said, oh, I
didn't really know how thatworked.
I thought you'd just draw myblood and tell me if I could do
it or not.
And they said, oh, no, no, thisis far, far bigger.
(20:59):
It's bigger than that.
It's bigger than that, and so Ichose to go through it.
And I remember I was onHenderson Boulevard in Tampa.
(21:27):
I called my husband.
I said I can't explain it.
I believe I'm going to be akidney donor.
I believe I'm going to be.
And he said whenever you say itsounds crazy, she's, she's and,
forgive me, I think she's incharge of everybody in the blood
draws hematology.
And she said to me I rememberwhen I was leaving I said, okay,
thanks, you know, take care,she goes.
I hope to see you again.
And I remember thinking peoplesay it all the time she really
meant it because she knew thatif she saw me again, that meant
somebody she'd been seeing foryears was going to get a kidney.
(21:49):
And it really struck me howimportant her sincerity and,
like her, love for her job orher work or whatever you want to
call it.
And they were all consistentlykind to me when I went in there
whatever you want to call it.
And they were consistently kindto me when I went in there.
And it was awkward as heckbecause you're six feet away
(22:11):
from people and those are peoplewho are really ill, so I was
just not wanting to get nearanybody because you could tell,
mostly because of the strain onpeople, and so it was a very
unexpected experience and at thesame time planned because of
the peculiarity of the timingand my husband knew from the
(22:35):
start and then I wasn't going totell anybody because I said
it's not my story to tell it'sthe person who receives this
kidney.
That was apparently neverreally mine.
I just housed it for a bit andthen I got the paperwork and
Todd you have to have two peoplewho say they will take care of
you after, okay, and if anythinggoes wrong and it's a little
(22:55):
daunting, yeah.
So my running partner at thetime, lynn.
We were doing 10,000 stepsbefore sunrise, and so I chose
to tell her and then drop it onher that I'm asking her to sign
that she'll take care of meRight.
And so it was an interestingsecret, so to speak.
And then we met before I askedif we could meet a half an hour
(23:20):
before We'd had a Zoom with thewoman who received the kidney
and we'd been in two groupstogether before that's how I'd
heard about it, but never morethan a hello.
She's a baby boomer, I'm Gen X,she's a foodie, I'm an athlete.
She's got this beautiful,perfect little dog and we have
(23:40):
rescue labs and they're like allover the place, and it was a
lesson.
And then I get to share this insome medical clients and
facilities that you know, younever know the connection, even
though it may not go beyond that, and there's only two people
who are really happy to go intoa hospital.
They're delivering healthybabies or they're donating
(24:01):
kidneys, and the rest of thepeople are really not in their
best place.
And so if we would remember thatin our lives, like that guy
might pull out in front of me,he may have had a really bad day
at work and I didn't.
So it's not to say I don't everget upset.
It's a really interestingperspective, though, of
(24:22):
somebody's like.
That apparition is going tochange the entire dynamic.
And then, when my husbanddonated six months later, the
man who received the kidney inthat situation he has five
children and his wife theyhadn't left Tampa Bay in, I
think, five years.
He would work 10 to 3, then goto dialysis from four to eight,
(24:46):
then go home, go to bed and hedid that for those five years
Now, since they have gone onsomething like 21 trips.
I mean it's fascinating and Ilove sharing Michael's story of
it because it's such an.
It was just so unusual and tosee their whole family.
(25:07):
It doesn't just affect oneperson, it's like donate blood,
get on the anything anybody does.
It doesn't only donate orimpact, excuse me, that person.
Kindness doesn't only impactone person because it does have
a ripple effect.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So so what's amazing to me and I think sometimes
people are skeptical about otherpeople trying to help them, and
I don't want to use the wordself-help because I don't like
that term.
I don't know if you do, I can'timagine you do, but it's not my
favorite.
But in what you do, I know thatthere have been others that
(25:45):
have not necessarily lived whatit is.
They don't practice what theypreach.
I know you do because yourecently experienced quite a
significant impact in your life.
We've mentioned a couple oftimes we're in Tampa and we were
affected by two hurricanes backto back.
Yes, some people were affectedmore than others in this area,
(26:07):
but you all were affected prettyseverely with the first one
that came through.
Can you tell your story with?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
that?
Sure we were, and it was.
You know, we live in a placethat we loved and it wasn't a
large home, it was a 1956 homeand where we are there had not
been a storm there, there hadnot been water ever in it.
There, you know, there's.
We're close to water.
So, to set the stage, so we'devacuated many times and this
(26:36):
time we chose not to because werealized that the last time we
had a storm some water came up.
But we said, oh, we're going todo this plastic around and
protect ourselves.
And then we had a game plan Ifanything were to happen worse,
we'd go across to our neighbors.
And you know we had a plan.
So we really were not expectingit, as you know, and most people
(26:58):
weren't, and it was supposed tocome in the middle of the night
and by 8.30, 9 o'clock therewas a tiny bit of water, not
just in one room but in ourhouse.
I mean, it happened at adifferent time than we expected
and very quickly, and within 45minutes it was up to my calf,
and I mentioned our rescue lab,daisy, and so we're putting her
(27:20):
up, but she's not normallysupposed to be up on any
furniture, so she would attemptto jump down.
We're attempting to grab somethings.
Yeah, she's a joy, we call herjoy wrapped in fur.
Then what happened is it wascoming so fast that we were
quickly deciding do we go out onthe bar, do we?
Well, we better go across tojim and kimberly's, which is
(27:42):
what we chose to do now.
We did that protection so wellof the plastic that it was up
like a foot.
So when Jim came across, wecouldn't get the door open.
And we're at Bay to Bay and sothere's a park in the very
middle and we never, everrealized in the 20 years we
lived there that it really dipsdown.
So I remember looking out thewindow and Jim was wet, but I
(28:05):
thought, well, it's raining, andI had grabbed a bag and Michael
had daisy, but we couldn't getthe door open.
We finally got the door openand he said you can't take that.
And I said to Michael there's alot of water is going to come
in when you open the door.
And he said can you swim?
And I said what?
And he said can you swim?
I said yeah, I've donetriathlon and I can swim, but
(28:27):
what do you mean?
Like we're not going in thepool?
And he said Debbie, at the this, fast across the street in the
middle.
He said it's, it's up to, Ithink, his neck and I'm five
foot two.
So so then we realized wecouldn't.
He goes you can't take that bag, you can't take anything.
So it was literally just whatwe were wearing and for some
(28:47):
reason I took my shoes off.
I still wonder about that I tookmy shoes off and put them up.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
They do that in movies you know right, like when
they jump in the water to savesomebody, they always take their
shoes off.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Take their shoes off.
I'll pay attention to that.
So as we got out there, thankgoodness, michael realized that
the water wasn't clean water.
I mean, you know, you're justnot.
So he held Daisy up over hishead and I said you guys go
ahead.
And then I had to swim at onepoint because it was over my
(29:18):
head and I mean I never expectedthat.
At the same time, it wasn'tanything we'd done wrong or
unexpected.
And so it was this realizationthat the flooding was real.
And then I'm a realisticoptimist or an optimistic
realist, and I said to Michaelthis is going to be one of the
biggest things we ever gothrough, if not the biggest in
(29:40):
our lives.
We want to assure that.
It's going to be frustrating,it's going to be all these
things.
We've got to decide, if we'rein, what we want to do, because
most families aren't going tohave this conversation.
And I remember and Michaelwon't mind my saying this, but I
remember his lip quivering andseeing his face and he's like
what are you saying?
And I said I'm not saying Iwant out or you want out, but if
(30:02):
you ever think there's a timeyou don't want to move forward,
we will make or break at thispoint because we are team
Lundberg, but this is somethingwe never expected.
And so we had that conversationabout you know what's going to
happen.
I mean, we're thinking we'll beable to fix it.
So we're thinking that way andknowing that would be very
(30:23):
taxing and I made a post.
I chose to make a post on thatFriday, which was September 28th
, and said you know, the househas had, there's a 12-foot storm
surge.
It settled around four feet.
We don't know that we can saveanything, but if anybody's in
the area, if you can come, 30people showed up.
And the next day I made a postabout bringing boxes because
(30:47):
things that were up on the wallin our clothes.
So 12 families took our clothesand washed them, which saved
them from that salt water.
And then I realized that thepaper boxes were getting.
It was so damp.
So, then I asked for clear binsand people were sending Ubers
with bins and showing up.
We had 50 people there from onesocial media post on Sunday by
(31:09):
2 pm, our entire home again nota large home out at the street
and we were waiting for theinspector to come from FEMA.
And I said to my husband youknow what we just experienced?
And he said what I said activelove.
I said this is not peoplesaying let me know what I can do
.
People couldn't get across thebridges so they had delivery
(31:31):
services send us stuff.
People showed up who'd onlyever heard me speak once and
follow and it was incrediblytouching and so that loss I
would not wish on anyone and Iknow there are a lot of people
who've experienced it it also bypeople doing so much.
We were able to donate clothesbecause we had a lot of clothes
(31:52):
and and they were able peoplewashed my running shoes and I
mean they just took everythingand brought it back.
And so we're in an apartmentand you know we're not able to
repair our home.
It has to be torn down, whichmeans trees.
You know a hundred and someyear old oak trees have to go.
But we have those memories andI have this group that we call
(32:13):
the Awesomeness Squad, and theyjust rallied and even some of
them showed up and I said, ifyou have other friends, even
though I love you and it's great, go to them, because we have so
much support.
And I'll tell you, some daysit's weird that we're living the
lives we're living, but notevery, not any day do we are not
grateful for it.
So when you have that loss, youcan feel very, very much a lack
(32:39):
in a sense of.
I said sometimes it must bewhat perhaps homeless people
like you see people with a cartand people say what are they
doing with all that stuff?
And I'll say that's what theyhave, though Like don't judge
what they have, because thoseare their things.
And I remember thinking, gosh,you know, I want to give away
this stuff because I don't wantto have that sense and and you
(33:02):
know it'll be, there'll be.
We call our home the Lumisphere.
So now we're in what we callLumisphere light, right, right,
and then we'll have Lumisphere2.0.
But it'll take a while.
You know, we wouldn't havechanged anything about our home,
and now it has to be acompletely different home.
We still get to take thememories, and I think if, in
that position, when somebody hasthat like I go places now and
(33:28):
every once in a while I'm verysocial, as you can probably tell
and you might remember frombefore people will ask things
and I don't want to answer them,and yet it's that reminder.
They haven't been having thisconversation for 144 days like I
have.
They want to know right now,and they mean well, and
sometimes it's that generosityof grace that takes a lot of
(33:48):
emotional intelligence, and innot being perfect, do I snap
every once in a while?
Sure, I also have the ability,though, to go to them and say
please forgive my shortness,because you meant well, I don't
over explain it, though, and Ithink that's part of the
kindness of being kind toyourself too is there's people
who have lost.
I mean, you work with peoplegetting back into work, you work
(34:10):
with people with that loss, andso, if we can remember that, in
each instance, we meet them asa human, not as the condition
we're in, but as the human beingthat they are at the core, so
do you think, because of thebusiness and what it is that you
do, is that what helped centeryou?
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I need to be reminded of everything that you just
said.
I get into situations and mypersonal personality is that I
tend to go dark very quick and Ihave to make a conscious effort
to stay positive, Whereas Ithink for some people make a
conscious effort to staypositive, Whereas I think for
some people it's natural, butsometimes that natural takes a
(34:57):
lot of work right.
So how would you explain orhelp someone who may be
listening that might not begoing through anything as severe
as what you've gone through,but maybe it's the day-to-day
grind that just gets them downand they're really struggling
with staying positive and theyhear living kindly and they go
right, I mean how do you takethat step and how do you
maintain that level?
Speaker 2 (35:17):
of positivity.
Well, I think people will besurprised to know mine is not
natural, it's learned.
I was wired very much to becompetitive and very much about
accomplishment.
Now I still like accomplishingthings.
It was in undergrad when Irealized.
I asked my roommate a questionand she said you know, nobody
wants to get on your bad side.
(35:38):
That's the reason they dothings for you, and I thought
what a horrible way to live mylife Somewhere.
I must have known, though, thatit wasn't that attractive, and
so I made a conscious effort tochange that, and so it's work it
is.
You can't ever change how you'rewired.
We get to thank or blame ourparents and grandparents and our
ancestry for that, and some ofour environment.
(35:59):
We do get to change how wepresent.
I don't believe in fake it tillyou make it, and sometimes
people are surprised by that.
I believe in make it about whatyou're doing and learning right
now till you make it to thenext step.
Make it to the next step.
So, to answer your question,absolutely that the way that we
choose to live our lives in thework I get to do positioned me
(36:21):
for this.
It positioned me to get to theTED Talks too though.
So the good and the not so good,the really fun and the not so
fun, we do what's called tap andI introduced it to my husband.
I've always done what I callgrin and grat.
Like the alarm goes off at 431and I grin.
I smile and I think ofgratitude, like grin and grat.
And as I'm walking, this was inthe house that we had before
(36:44):
there was this walkover becauseI would put my phone in the
bathroom so that it was forcedto get up and there was no blue
light.
So I said, what about doing tapwith me?
And he said well, what's tap?
I've heard you talk about it andit's when you first, in the
morning, you talk about whatyou're thankful for and you set
up your accomplishments for theday, three or four only.
So do you want to accomplishbeing kind to a person who's
(37:08):
challenging, so it doesn't haveto be a really measurable.
So it's a little bit different,because goal setting, you want
measurables and in the evening,the last thing before we go to
sleep, no matter how tired orhad a glass or two to drink,
it's what are your positives?
And there's no wrong positivein that you can tap into
positivity and and mindset byensuring that you don't let a
(37:30):
day pass because you're right,there's work in it, and most
people don't ask me like you didand they assume and that's,
that's okay.
They assume, well, you wereborn that way or that way and
and I I don't know what it wouldbe like if I had, so I don't
wish for that.
At the same time, going throughthe process of the letdowns and
(37:54):
the frustrations and being angrybefore and disappointed, it's
so much lighter and it's been,you know, two-thirds of my life
now and I'm a work in process,as we like to say.
And so when you go dark orothers who are listening, or
it's the grind of the day, likeyou asked, give yourself credit
Like what have you done welltoday?
(38:15):
Because you've done somethingreally well, even if you let
somebody out in front of you ata light or you held a door.
I mean every act of kindness,and there's a quotation about it
that I'm not going to rememberexactly.
So there's no act of kindnessthat's wasted, is in effect, and
if you believe that, youcontinue to achieve it.
(38:36):
I don't believe in the mindsetof if you think it, you can do
it and you can do anything,because nobody from the WNBA is
asking me to play basketball forthem, even if I really really
wanted to.
So I think we've also you talkedabout that pendulum earlier.
We swing to this.
You can do anything you want,and I'm over here saying you can
do anything you're capable of.
So if you weren't able to danceballet, don't beat yourself up
(39:02):
if you missed a step in thecha-cha that you're doing in the
evening with your spouse,because you're there to have fun
.
You're not there to win atrophy or to, so it's a keep a
perspective.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Realistic, optimist.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Realistic optimist yes.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
So we've been talking about not really getting into
some into details, some somehigher level kind of perspective
things.
What we really try to bring onthis podcast is some specific
things that people can do tohelp make themselves better at
what they do or in their lives,because I think those things are
connected.
Right, I can take the things Ilearn and implement every single
(39:38):
thing that I learned doing thisat home, and it makes me a
better dad and a better husband,no doubt about it.
So you know, thinking of peoplein workers' compensation
adjusters, risk managers most ofthem have very high levels of
work that they have to do,managing hundreds of files at
the same time, but alsounderstanding that these files
(40:01):
aren't just numbers.
They're human beings behindevery file, right, and so I came
up with a couple scenarios thatI was going to throw at you and
kind of see how you might helpthat person in what they're
trying to do.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Love it, you game Okay.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
All right.
So here's number one.
An employer is approaching anemployee about a personal issue
that's been impacting their work.
So how do you have thatconversation?
As an employer, you have to sitdown with somebody that you can
tell that they're slacking off.
How do you have that difficultconversation?
Speaker 2 (40:32):
First, before you meet with them, is you check
your anger and frustration, yourdisappointment, because you got
to remember and I'm sure you do, todd that almost no one in the
world says how can I do a badjob at work today, and sometimes
we forget that.
So, with clients or in thisscenario, because I've had
(40:54):
clients in this scenario they'relike I'm so frustrated, they're
not pulling their weight, andI'll say what else is pulling at
them, though, and it's not toexcuse the behavior.
So if they said to the person Ilike to tell people, give
purpose before your position,purpose before your position.
If it were you and me, let'ssay Todd, and I wasn't
(41:16):
delivering, If you said to meDebbie, you're not cutting it,
you know, I don't know what'sgoing on in your personal life,
but you've got to straighten up,I wouldn't feel supported and I
would feel worse, because I'malready failing at home and now
I feel like I'm failing here.
If, instead, you said Debbie,because I care about you, I've
blocked a half an hour, an hour,whatever it is to talk to you
(41:37):
about you as a person.
Now, look, I get it.
Hr different things.
I'm talking you and me as twopeople who care about each other
.
Are you willing to share withme what's happening, because I'm
guessing there's somethingthat's going on outside of here
(41:58):
that is impacting here.
Now we'll get to the stuff here.
Most importantly, though, areyou okay, and what does okay
look like to you, and then closeyour mouth and listen?
So I like to say you want toask, listen, confirm and honor.
So if you asked me that and Isaid you know what?
(42:21):
Our dog is really sick, and theperson who usually watches our
dog is not available to, I'vehad people say I can't believe
it's an animal, and I'm likewhoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.
So if you said okay, how can weassist?
Could working remotely assist?
Is there?
Could we temporarily and tellthem it's an exception?
There's nothing wrong withsaying it's an exception.
(42:44):
If, though, they're really notin the end you say they're not
up to speed, offer your EAP,offer what is included in their
benefits.
Also, though, figure out a wayto have them not in that dynamic
where they don't feel pushedout though, because for some
people, if they're not in thatwork environment, the work
environment may be the one thingthat they thought was working.
(43:06):
So you don't want to risk yourbusiness for this person's
actions, but you never want tosacrifice a human at the results
of work.
So when you come to them since,first of all, it has to be
sincere, secondly, it can't berushed, third, it has to be a
safe space and you tell them youcare first and you mean it.
Then you go through the ask,listen, confirm and honor, and
(43:29):
you figure it out together.
If they are at their wits endand they say they don't know
what to do, then say I'm goingto do this.
So if it's, you're going tohave HR get in touch with them
or you're going to grant themtheir leave or their PTO or
whatever it is, and if you don'twant that, by the end of the
day, send me a text or an emailand I'll change it.
(43:51):
We too often say to somebodywhat can I do for you?
That's a to-do on their list.
When we are in thesechallenging times and say I'm
not performing well and our dogis ill, I don't know what you
can do.
So either tell them what you'redoing or give them choices
after you listen, because if Isay to you, look, I'm not doing
(44:12):
well, but I'm out of PTO, youprobably have the ability to let
me adjust.
If, though, I think I'm doingreally well, you're going to
want to approach it differently.
If I'll say what are youtalking about?
I've gotten everything done ontime, then you want to show, say
(44:39):
I can see where that could be,that could have been seen
through your eyes.
You don't want to ever lie, youdon't want to ever miss.
If I'm in an altered state, youcan appreciate how I would see
that, even if it's going offsite, because you know they love
coffee, but they, you knowsomething, and I don't like
people calling thoseaccommodations or coddling.
I call it being human, andhuman kindness matters.
So, in those scenarios, I'd sayprobably more than 90 percent
if I went back and looked atclients.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
If they're willing to do that, they resolve it, and
the person either stays or theperson leaves on good terms
because they were cared forthat's something that, in what
we do on a daily basis, one ofthose things that I think makes
an adjuster very cynical,because there's a small
(45:26):
percentage of people in thisindustry, from the employee
standpoint, that do takeadvantage of the system, and so
when those couple people takeadvantage of it, it instantly
trickles down to what we thinkeverybody's doing Right, and
that's not always the case.
So let's take another scenario.
It's very similar to that one.
So let's take another scenario.
It's very similar to that one.
But so I'm an adjuster and Ihave a sense that maybe somebody
(45:49):
is taking advantage of thesituation because perhaps
they're not doing what they'resupposed to be doing to help,
kind of participate in theirrecovery.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
So how do you have that kindness conversation and
not get taken advantage of?
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, kindness sometimes gets perceived as a
doormat, and I said call it awelcome mat, not a doormat.
So we welcome the truth andhonesty.
I don't ever encourage anybody,though, to compromise their
integrity or their sense of selffor another person.
Now, we can be a bitself-deprecating or we can be
humble.
So if that were the case andagain say it's you and I'm not,
(46:32):
I'm this person who's beeninjured or not participating in
how to get back to work, really,then you'd probably want to say
to me hey, debbie, you know,because I see a lot of things
and since you've had X amount oftime since your injury or since
you've been out of work, walkme through what challenges
(46:55):
you're having in getting back towork.
So, again, you're going to askfirst, and you notice you don't
say I care about you.
You say because I care aboutyou.
So everybody's favorite topic,whether they're doing the right
things or not, is themselves,and so if we don't lead with I,
we lead with the reason, likethe because or since.
Like I said, in both scenariosI'm more likely going to start
(47:18):
to talk about the challenges.
So if you say, walk me throughthe challenges and most
Americans don't love help, theylove to be served or assisted.
So if you think somebody is inthat situation, ultimately
you're going to get to it.
So I am going to get to if youreally feel that.
So at first, though, if you askme what my challenges are, I
(47:39):
say, ah, you know how it is.
It's difficult.
Nobody gives any interviews, soI give generalizations.
You want to say tell me aboutthe last time.
Oh, it always happens.
Well, tell me about somethingthat happened this week.
And then say tell me one time.
So you ask three times, and ifthey can't give you a specific
say, considering there's beennothing specific, what
(48:02):
specifically can I do to assistyou?
Because you know that ourrelationship is based on getting
you back to work?
And if I say there's nothing,it's just a bad job market in
Idaho, or it's a bad job marketin Tampa, or whatever it is,
then you do want to get to thatwhat I call kindly direct and
directly kind.
So you see, I like to say thesethings because kindness does
(48:25):
get a bit of a soft wrap.
So if you say you know what,and if it's you and you're
talking to me, you say you knowwhat?
Debbie, let's be straight.
I'm getting this sense thatyou're not doing these things.
How can you prove me wrong?
Let them prove you wrong.
Instead of saying I thinkyou're not doing this, say I'm
(48:48):
getting that sent, so pleaseprove me wrong.
What am I missing?
So that's direct and kind.
And then, if they don't, thenyou want to say to them you know
what?
These conversations, we canprobably agree, have been
pleasant.
They've been somewhatproductive.
If we don't resolve somethingthis time and we don't get a
(49:09):
plan that you start working, thenext conversation is going to
be very different.
I don't want us to have thatconversation.
We will have that conversation,though if it doesn't change.
Are we in agreement?
Okay, so now, fresh start.
Let's get a plan.
You got to give them a chanceto have a fresh start, to not
(49:30):
feel like it's hanging over them.
If, though, they don't do it,that next conversation is to be
about dissolving therelationship or how you would
move forward if it's fraud oranything like that.
So it's giving them the reason,giving them the opportunity,
asking them their challenges,seeing if you can assist, and
(49:52):
then being really clear.
Different conversation if thisdoesn't happen.
Plan, and, whether it getsexecuted or not, you know your
direction.
Very rarely do people say, oh, Icut that person off too quickly
.
We usually say I hold on toolong.
So if you're fair and you givethem that I have a client right
now.
She wanted to wait a very longtime with somebody not
(50:12):
performing I said I don't thinkit's going to work out.
I'd love for you to prove mewrong.
If you give him 90 days, though, I said a president gets 100.
People get 90 days on a reviewbefore anything.
This person's already been herea long time.
He may be missing out on a goodopportunity somewhere else.
So are you doing him a serviceby dragging it out?
(50:34):
And it's like well, people sayI hate to do it, you'll never
love doing it, but like the factthat you've been sincere with
another human being, and that'swhere that goes, todd.
Speaker 1 (50:49):
These things, these conversations, are so nuanced
and you would think that wewould be hardwired to be able to
have these conversations, butwe're really not.
It's definitely a learned skill.
It is.
You'd written a article, or Iguess it's an article.
It was printed, so it's anarticle right In the.
Tampa Bay Business Journal.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Tampa Bay Business and Wealth Magazine.
I'm sorry, Business and WealthMagazine Very close.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
yeah, and it had to do with words to say and words
not to say in certaincircumstances and when I read
through that they're so closeLike we were chatting before we
started recording about.
My sister-in-law was at hospiceand the nurses who are
(51:33):
wonderful people continued toask us how we were doing, and I
think that was the one complaintthat my father-in-law had
through.
That whole experience was don'task me how I'm doing.
But, it's just something that wenormally just it's force of
habit, right?
Can you recall some of thosedo's and don'ts that?
Speaker 2 (51:53):
you had in that article, Absolutely.
And Lauren Jarrett, who is anassociate professor with USF,
partnered with me on that andshe also.
She and her family lost theirhome and about 90% of their
belongings and she publiclystates you know, we're friends
and she's been a client and overthe years we've shared stories.
With this, though, Like yousaid, I mean you're going in to
(52:15):
see someone in hospice, so don'tsay how are you?
Just like a doctor's office.
Please don't say how are you?
Because you're about to checkthe blood pressure and people
have white coat syndrome, so sayglad you're here, so good to
see you, those type of things,when people would ask Lauren or
me, and still to this day, howare you?
Well, I'm doing day 144.
(52:36):
I made a little progress today.
And so instead of saying let meknow what I can do, it's so much
better to say I'm sending youan Amazon gift card to this
email address.
If it's different, let me know.
Otherwise you'll see it by 6o'clock.
Because if you say let me know,I mean I can take you back to
the kidney donation I had.
(52:57):
People say to me you never toldme I could do something, so I
never got to be part of it.
It's like well, forgive me forhaving my intestines moved
around and organ taken out andattempting to recover from it
and forgetting to send you amessage on what you could do.
And you can hear a bit ofsarcasm in my voice because when
people said that, I said youknow what, thanks for the offer.
(53:21):
It all worked out.
Because there's no point insaying to them oh my gosh,
you're giving me a to-do.
People say, thinking of you,let me know what we can do, and
what is really best is to figureout what you're good at.
So this is a funny story.
So a client and friend ended upgetting a surgery and I did
what I normally do.
I said saw that hope you'redoing all right If you're able
(53:45):
to, with what you're goingthrough, eat chili Michael makes
great chili or I'll drop a bagoff at your place on Tuesday and
I'll pick it up on Thursday.
If there's any laundry oranything.
If you leave it empty and younever touch it, you don't have
to see me.
So those are things that I said.
If I don't hear back from you,I'll drop off the bag.
(54:12):
So this person had nothing to doand he said I want the chili.
So I said to michael oh, hewants the chili.
And michael said you know, wedon't have a crock pot.
So I was like oh, so weborrowed a crock pot from from
the one of our awesomeness squaddon, and then he does his chili
, and so we're we normally dropit off.
And this person said could youstay and have dinner with me?
And so so we said, oh okay,we've never done that.
We make a chili for people, we,michael.
Speaker 1 (54:29):
I offer, he makes.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
So we go to take it.
And right before Michael putsthese sweet tomatoes in that are
in a can, and he said we don'thave a can opener.
So we were laughing and so Icalled the person.
I said we'll be here at thistime if you have a can opener,
and we'll be here at this timeif you don't, because we'll be
stopping to buy a can opener.
And he said well, I have a canopener.
And it was such a laugh becausewe naturally do that.
(54:55):
And yet we didn't have thestuff.
It worked.
And so you know, we figured itout, and my point of that is I
was a little flaky on my partand we figured it out.
And my point of that is I was alittle flaky on my part, and
yet it worked.
And we have a can opener nowand a crock pot.
So figure out what you'recapable of doing and don't
(55:16):
overextend, because mine waslike well, we figured it out, I
just asked somebody to borrowone and then do it.
I mean, it really is thatsimple.
But also, when you say tosomebody oh, that must be
terrible, or I can't imaginewhat you were going through, or
I'd be curled up in a ball in acorner.
There's nothing good that comesout of that.
People also say you know well,god wouldn't give you more than
(55:39):
you can handle.
That's really out of contextbecause it's not the whole
intention.
If you read through that,whether you're religious or not,
and so when people say thosethings they probably mean well,
but when you're thinking reallyI don't even have my own
toothbrush, but our dentist gotus toothbrushes I mean, you
(56:01):
think it's more of that.
If you really don't know what tosay, it's better to say
something to somebody because Idon't know what to say.
It's better to say something tosomebody because I don't know
what to say to you.
Is it okay if I give you a hugand if they say no, then don't
be mad, don't force a hug.
Or if you say because I don'tknow anything, the right thing
to say I'm just here and I'mthinking of you is so much
(56:21):
better than asking a questionwhen we've been part of a lot of
activity at MacDill andsomebody's writing a book about
the coalition.
I was on with him when I washeading here and he started
asking me questions aboutanother area in Tampa because
he's not here anymore and I saidI don't know, because the
devastation that happened by us.
(56:42):
We don't even live right thereright now and I know he was
curious, but I didn't have theanswer and I wasn't going to
attempt to figure it out,because you also have to be kind
to yourself and be all rightsaying thanks for asking.
I'm going over here now I saythat a lot People start to ask.
So in those do's and don'tsthat Lauren and I shared, it's
(57:04):
think about what you're reallysaying.
People say your place will bebetter.
You'll build a bigger, better.
Nope, didn't want a biggerhouse, didn't want better,
didn't want a bazillion dollar,but it's a building.
We don't want this hugemortgage.
As a Gen X, you know, and and soin everything we say, it
doesn't, it's not going to beflawless.
At the same time, if you're, ifyou have nothing nice to say,
(57:28):
as we talked about earlier, youdon't say anything nice.
If you have nothing kind,figure out something kind to do.
I mean actions speak louderthan words.
Speaker 1 (57:33):
So, debbie, if people are interested in getting a
hold of you now, you work withindividuals and organizations,
right?
So what's the best way to get ahold of you, and where can they
find your TED Talks and allthat other fun stuff?
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Thanks for asking.
Everything's at debbieD-E-B-B-I-E.
At debbielundbergcom you canfind our coaches, our speakers,
me.
They're all equally as good asI am better in some topics, so I
mean they have their expertise.
The TED Talks are on the TEDchannel.
Tedx on YouTube.
So and really, ted channel,tedx on YouTube.
So and really, I makeeverything public on Facebook,
(58:11):
that platform, because peoplecan access it.
If you don't mind seeing RescueLabs and Michael and me golfing
every once in a while, I do avideo tip every day.
That's all around kindness,communication, behaviors, so we
welcome anybody who wants tojoin along.
And then Barb Zant is mypodcast partner and Deb's been
on the show.
We might get you on there, todd.
(58:32):
That would be great.
So it's called the Business ofLife Masterclass Podcast.
So we ask the same questions ofevery guest and then we
implement them and report backon what we did.
Speaker 1 (58:41):
Love it, so we'd love to have you there and we're
nearing 250 episodes.
Congratulations, thank you andthanks for having me on here
again.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Of course, debbie, thank you very much you're
welcome, all right, we'll haveyou on again that sounds good,
thank you thanks for listeningto rea audio.
Speaker 1 (58:58):
I hope we opened up your brain a bit and helped you
be better at what you do.
Please follow us on spotify,apple podcast, stitcher Music or
wherever you get your podcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
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