In this episode, Jennifer Barrett, Director of Risk Resources at Acrisure, shares proven strategies to cut workers’ compensation costs and support injured employees. Drawing on her deep construction industry experience, Barrett explains how fast communication and proactive return-to-work programs can boost recovery rates—and slash premium costs.
Learn why employees who return to modified duty within 30 days have a 90% chance of full recovery, and how poor claim management can spike your experience mod by 30 points. Barrett also covers essential tools like nurse triage, telemedicine, and partnering with the right occupational health providers to streamline the claims process.
If you're an employer, HR professional, or risk manager ready to take control of workplace injury claims, this episode is packed with actionable tips to protect your people and your bottom line.
Listen now to revolutionize your workers' comp strategy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
How do you get better at what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Time management assistance.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
AI.
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Webinars Mentors.
Open platforms like Coursera,live and virtual Live training,
live course, live training, livetraining, live training, live
training, live training, livetraining, live training.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Live training Live training Live training Live
training Live training Livetraining Live training Focus
communication, regulation anddirection.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
REA Audio.
This time of year people get soexcited Like one warm day and
it's like completely changestheir outlook because it's such
a long, dark, cold winter.
So we're going to see 50degrees on Thursday, so there'll
be some pretty happy people, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I can recall growing up in western New York the first
day it hit like 55 or 60.
We'd all be outside in shortsand T-shirts and washing cars.
And I'll never forget all thesnow banks on the side of the
road and the roads being drybecause of all the salt and
everything.
It's still being snow, but warmenough, really not warm enough
for shorts, but we thought itwas yeah, oh for sure, yeah, no.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Absolutely enough for shorts.
But we thought it was yeah, ohfor sure, yeah, no absolutely
that will be.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
this week that will be.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Thursday Good, we'll enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, awesome, jennifer Barrett.
So you are a director of riskresources at Acroshore, but you
have a background inconstruction, which I guess you
know.
It's funny when I look at theword resources and I know we're
going to kind of talk about thisas we kind of move along but
resources always looks to melike it means something
(01:29):
beforehand.
Right, you need to haveresources before you can move on
and do other things, and so Ithink the title that you have at
AcroShare is definitely goingto lead us into maybe some
preparation stuff that peoplecan learn from our conversation.
But tell us a little bit aboutyour background in construction
and how it got you to where youare now with AcroShare.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
My job at the constructioncompany was one of my most
favorite jobs.
I loved every moment of it.
I had a boss that was soincredibly smart and talented
and challenged my brain on adaily basis, and part of my role
(02:15):
within the construction companywas to manage their claims, and
they had a very largedeductible.
So they, you know, they reallycalled the shots.
They didn't adjust their ownclaims, but they really directed
the adjusters to kind ofexactly what they wanted to have
happen to.
You know, make sure that theclaims were handled in the most
efficient and effective manner,without sacrificing care for the
employee.
And I learned so much throughthat process and just saw how
(02:38):
much money was on the table whenyou manage claims well, it just
saw how much money was on thetable when you manage claims
well.
And so when I saw the jobposting for the position that
I'm in now, I thought to myselfI really didn't want to make a
move.
But I thought to myself what anincredible skill to be able to
help smaller businesses thatdon't have a risk manager be
(03:03):
able to, you know, have control,or think that they have control
, over workers' comp claims.
Because I can tell you everytime you talk to somebody about
workers' comp and if they've hada bad claim, the process is
horrible to them, right?
And they think that they haveabsolutely no control, and
that's so not true.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, and that's actually on both sides of the
fence as well.
You know, with what we do atreemployability, we work closely
with employers, but we alsowork closely with injured
workers and I feel like bothsides almost feel the same way
and there's this immediate wall,I think, that develops between
the two parties involved in aclaim.
You had mentioned that what youlearned was being able to
(03:43):
manage claims efficiently butstill keeping the best interest
of your employees in mind.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, Like what are some
of those things that you can doto be able to do both?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, of course I think you absolutely have to
advocate medically for youremployee, right?
If the workers' comp system canbe very daunting to an employee
that's never been through theprocess, the medical system
alone can be daunting, right.
So when you bring both together, it's extra daunting.
And so we often would help theemployee kind of understand what
(04:17):
benefits were within theworkers' comp claim that could
help him or her navigate themedical process, to get you know
treatment quicker or adiagnostic quicker that would
lead to treatment quicker.
And so oftentimes nurse casemanagers, you know, we would
partner with one particular firmthat we used and we would
(04:38):
connect the dots to get them,you know, a nurse to help kind
of guide them through thatmedical process, to make it feel
a bit less scary and to makethe medical process more
efficient.
Obviously, the other piece of itwas getting them back in a work
environment right, and itdidn't have to be the same exact
work environment, becauseoftentimes injured employees
(05:00):
have work modifications orrestrictions and they can't do
their typical job.
So finding them work that wassatisfying for them too, while
not being able to contributelike they used to prior to the
injury, and helping themmentally understand that we're
your partner here.
We're going to get you throughthis.
These restrictions, hopefully,are temporary and we're here to
(05:23):
support your transition back tofull duty.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
It sounds like you had a pretty good line of
communication between youremployees and kind of explained
the process.
That's one of the things we runinto here.
Too many times we find thatemployers, when there's a work
comp claim, they cut their tiesessentially and they don't have
that communication, and I canimagine what that must feel like
(05:46):
for an employee.
What sort of things did you doto keep those lines of
communication in place whensomebody was at home and then if
you were providing a return towork of any kind?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, we would check in with them frequently Myself,
their supervisor so they had acouple of proactive touches
throughout the week, especiallyif they weren't at work.
You know the statistics whenpeople are out of work.
The longer they're out of work,the less likely they're coming
back right.
So that first two weeks is justso incredibly critical to make
(06:23):
that employee feel like they'restill part of the team.
We've got their arms aroundthem, we're here to help them
through the process.
They don't have to navigate itby themselves.
And so there were frequentcheck-ins and the same with
their direct supervisor.
We spent a lot of time educatingour supervisors on how to deal
with taking employees back towork and putting them into light
(06:44):
duty and making sure that thosetransitions happen successfully
so that there wasn't anyregression in their symptoms or
in their injury.
And I think that was, you know,so hugely helpful.
Their direct supervisors, youknow they have to be a part of
the team, they have tounderstand the process, and
(07:05):
that's where so many things cango wrong, right, I mean, I don't
think employees generally wantto disappoint their supervisors.
Right, they want.
They want to do the right thingfor the most part, and so
making sure that the supervisorsthey are supporting them is
huge.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's a tremendous.
It makes such a difference inthe whole process of the claim
and I'm so glad that youmentioned like within those
first two weeks.
The statistics that we haveshow that if you can get
somebody back into some kind ofmodified duty within 30 days,
there's a 90% chance thatthey're going to come back to
work.
If that goes six months, that'scut in half.
It's like 50%, which is crazy.
(07:44):
Can you?
From a practical standpoint andI don't mean to keep harping on
this, but it seems like it'ssuch a glaring thing that
happens when we're working withemployers what are some of the
practical things that you do tostay in communication with your
employees?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
employees yeah, I mean literally just pick the
phone up and say, hey, how is itgoing, we're just checking in
on you, how's your recoverygoing?
Is everything going well fromthe claim standpoint?
Because a lot of times theemployees won't say, hey,
they've missed my paycheck orhey, they're not approving
diagnostic tests in a timelyfashion.
I've been waiting three weeksfor an MRI.
If you check in with themperiodically and make sure that
(08:26):
all of that stuff is goingsmoothly, hopefully the process
for that employee is moreefficient.
If you don't, and they arewaiting three weeks or four
weeks for approval of an MRItest, that then takes another
three to four weeks to get onthe books.
The dollars of the claimquickly add up and how the
employee in their work capacityis likely in a more stagnant
(08:51):
situation versus kind of gettingback to work, figuring out
what's going on and getting backto work.
So you know it's not just amatter of hey, how are you doing
, it's how is everything going?
Is the adjuster returning yourphone calls?
Are you getting what you needfrom the insurance carrier?
Are we doing what we need?
To check in with you?
You know that type of stuff,and just assuring them that you
(09:13):
know their job is still there.
They're excited for them tocome back when they're ready.
That means so much when youfail to check in with your
employees.
I mean they're at home.
There's attorneys commercialsall the time on the television,
right.
And when somebody sits homewithout any kind of affiliation
(09:34):
to what they were doing right atwork and they're feeling kind
of secluded and alone, it's easyfor them to make a phone call
or accept a phone call from anattorney who really aren't going
to act in their best interest,right aren't going to act in
their best interest, right?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, that makes so much sense and there's a lot of
fear, I think there's fear onboth sides right.
When an injured worker is home,possibly for the first time
ever, they don't know if thatjob's still going to be there.
They don't know what the roleof an adjuster is.
There's so much there thatthey're just guessing on.
And you're right.
When that attorney commercialcomes up, I mean there, it is
right, that's the first personthey're going to go to, because
they make them feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, and I will just add I would say one of the
biggest things that you can dofrom an employer standpoint is
to make sure that the employeefeels supported.
Really honestly, I know thatfrom an employer standpoint,
when somebody gets injured, theemployer's thinking okay, dollar
signs, right, my mod is goingto go up or my insurance
premiums are going to go up.
(10:30):
If we manage the claimefficiently and effectively and
take care of our employee andget them back to work quickly,
it's not going to go up that bad.
If we, you know, fail to takecare of our employees, fail to
check in with them, and thenthey get an attorney, yeah, it
is going to affect your mod,right.
So doing the right thing out ofthe box from you know, from a
(10:53):
claim standpoint is just, it'sso impactful.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So that's the fear side of the employee.
What about the fear side of theemployer?
What are some of the thingsthat small companies are facing
that stress them out the most?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
now, yeah, I mean I think their experience Maude
right and the ability to procureinsurance for a reasonable
amount of money, and then Iwould also say being down an
employee having to pay anotheremployer, potentially over time.
You know, smaller businessesdon't have a ton of margin
typically to cover those costs,and so it's scary for them.
(11:30):
So those are definitely some ofthe things that we hear from
our employers, like what am Igoing to do without this key
employee or this valued employee?
Now, all of these otheremployees are going to have to
work extra.
I'm paying overtime I have, youknow, I have more expense than
I'm used to.
And oh, by the way, now myexperience mod is going to go up
and my insurance premiums aregoing to go up, and so they you
(11:53):
know they the cost of it becomesan impact to them.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
For sure.
And so how does Acrisure comein and help these clients manage
their claims?
What are some of those, thoseresources that you're able to
provide to them?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, that's a great question and you know, and any
broker for that matter, shouldbe able to help you through the
claims process.
I do like to think we're verydifferent in how we approach
risk management in general andclaims.
You know we think of them asone.
A good risk management programdoesn't just encompass safety or
claims management, it's both,and so we bring both resources
(12:33):
to the table.
The proactive piece, which isthe safety side of things, we
will plug in and help whereverwe have to to mitigate loss.
We have a very routine,systematic process for doing
what we call claim reviews forour larger clients that do
generate some claim activity,and we do those strategically
(12:57):
throughout the year so thatwe're looking at the claim
reserves prior to the mod beingcalculated and then prior to the
client redoing their insuranceor even potentially going out to
market to make sure that theclaims are reserved
appropriately and those reservesthat could be inflated are not
(13:24):
going into their mod and they'renot going into a loss run that
a potential carrier is going tolook at and really kind of
underwrite their business basedon a number.
That's not correct.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Right Aside from safety.
Some of the things we weretalking about before we recorded
this were that there are someservices that you feel like too
frequently are looked atpost-injury and not necessarily
prepared for pre-injury Can youtalk about some of those things
that maybe a risk managerlistening now could look more
(13:50):
into.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, I think there's a lot that you can do
pre-injury right From a riskmanagement standpoint.
Adopt a return to work program.
Work with your broker orcarrier they should have
resources for it but adopt aphilosophy to bring people back
to work.
Understand where you can bringpeople in light-duty positions,
(14:12):
in medium-duty positions, inmedium to heavy-duty positions.
So find positions within yourorganization that you could
accommodate somebody being inthat role for a little bit of
time as they transition throughthe work injury.
If you don't have thatopportunity, obviously
re-employability is a fabulousresource for that.
(14:34):
We refer to you guys all thetime.
I mean, we do have certainorganizations where it is hard
to find light duty within thoseorganizations and so in those
situations we absolutely referto you guys.
So definitely adopt a lightduty program.
That is one of the mostimpactful things that you can do
(14:54):
from a workers' comp standpoint.
Number two partner with anoccupational health clinic, a
concentra a clear choice.
Whoever may be near you thatunderstands workers' comp is
willing to come and visit yourfacility and understand your
philosophy around workers' compand direct care there, if you
(15:16):
can statutorily.
So always look at your statesand figure out what you can do
from a medical standpoint.
Here in Vermont we can directthe first visit so hugely
important to have AHRQ healthclinics to direct to, because
emergency medicine just doesn'tunderstand workers' comp.
It's extremely expensive andprimary care physicians really
(15:39):
don't understand workers' compeither.
So AHRQ Med is a huge benefit.
Third, I would say educatesupervisors.
Any supervisor you're bringingon.
If they're responsible forpeople, managing people and
they're exposed to work injury,put them through a workers' comp
101.
(16:00):
And that's something that we do.
We educate a lot of supervisors.
They're the boots on the groundthat are, you know, in the
trenches every day with thesefolks and they need to
understand what their role isand how impactful it is to the
employee.
Right, because it can go verywell.
It can also go very wrong ifit's not dealt with properly.
So ensure that supervisorsreally understand your light
(16:29):
duty program, how to handleinjuries, when to report them,
all of those things.
And I would say, give veryclear instructions to new
employees as they come on aboutreporting what is you know, what
is your process, how do youreport a claim?
Let them know what you know,what you expect from a safety
perspective.
I think that's a really bigpart of it too.
New employees are obviouslymost at risk of getting injured.
(16:49):
They typically get injured morefrequently.
So really make sure that you'retaking time to kind of, you
know, train them, mentor themand if and when they do get
injured, they know what theprocess is.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
When you were in the construction industry, how many
phone calls did you get afternormal business hours from a
manager saying somebody got hurt?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
What do I do now?
Many and I still get them today,even outside of the
construction business.
So yeah, it's.
You know it's out there andpeople are.
So, like I said, people are soprotected they're protected
because of their experience modsso they're so worried about
what is this going to do.
You know, a mod can jump 30points from one claim.
(17:35):
That's 30% of premium.
So if you're paying 100 grandin premium, 30 points is $30,000
.
It takes a lot of money to make$30,000.
So you can understand whythey're so protective of their
mod.
And so when they do have claims, oftentimes like, do I need to
report this?
And the answer is always yes youhave to you know you have to
(17:56):
report it and let the carrieryou know, the people that are
licensed to adjudicate claims inthat jurisdiction kind of make
the determination.
But I will say, whenever I havea difficult claim and difficult
, I mean, you know, not sure ifthe injury is completely legit,
has some, you know, interestingcircumstances around it, just
(18:18):
doesn't feel right I always willwork with my clients, the
employers and the carrier.
I'll get everybody on theconference line and just kind of
develop a plan so we're all onthe same page.
We all know how to navigate itgoing forward, and oftentimes
that's followed up by, you know,phone calls, monthly phone
calls, just to kind of make surethings are still moving in the
(18:39):
right direction.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
So you mentioned.
You know, sometimes you justget that feeling that
something's just not right.
We also talked about the levelof communication that's
necessary from the employer tothe employee so that that
employee feels like they'restill a part of that
organization.
So obviously there's a mindsetfor employers I think they many
(19:03):
default to.
I don't think this is legit orI think there's something wrong?
Right yeah, which isunfortunate.
I truly believe that themajority of claims are like what
you said at the beginningPeople want to get back to work.
They want to do the right thing.
What do you do in your role tohelp change that mindset that
employers have of this is bunkto?
(19:26):
Maybe we'll take the benefit ofthe doubt and move forward in
the right way.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
So oftentimes the employers that have those
mindset, you can see, I canusually tell, like if I'm going
out on a prospect meeting, right, and I've seen their loss runs
or know their claim historymaybe they sent me a claim
review I can usually tell by thelevel of litigation in the
claims If there's a, you know,kind of a tougher relationship
(19:52):
with the, you know with theemployer and the employee when
they get injured Becauseoftentimes they do go to a
attorney.
You know, like, if they havethat adversarial relationship
right away, like I don't want toreport this, this employee
really didn't get hurt here, youknow it makes the employees
kind of feel not great and sothey feel like, okay, well, now
I need to fight for the factthat I feel like I did get hurt
(20:15):
here and they get an attorney.
We spend a lot of time tryingto educate those employers.
That you know, early reportingand letting the carrier do their
job, and letting the carrier dotheir job, obviously with our
(20:46):
involvement, is the best way toalong.
Or I should have been a littlebit more proactive in how I
handled my employees becausethey see, you know, they may see
the benefit quickly of changingtheir mindset and getting these
claims reported and treatingthese employees in a better
light.
It just it sets the stage whenyou have an employer that
(21:07):
immediately we call it posturingright, they immediately posture
against the employee and theydon't think it's a valid claim.
It just makes for a veryadversarial relationship from
the beginning of the claim andit will drag on because of it.
An employee doesn't want tocome back to work for somebody
that's going to treat them likethat when they need them the
(21:29):
most right.
And if it is, you know, if itis a claim where the validity is
a problem, we work with theadjuster to try and make sure
that we're getting to the bottomof that and doing what we need
to do within the statute toensure that it you know it's
denied or whatever needs tohappen from that standpoint
(21:51):
happens.
But most of the time you'reright.
They're pretty credibleinjuries and a lot of times the
hardest thing as an employee isgoing to your supervisor and
saying I hurt myself, right, alot of times.
What reporting a claim soundslike from an employee's
standpoint is I think I may havetweaked my back the other day
Because they have so much angstabout saying that to somebody.
(22:15):
If you really think that nobodywants to go to their boss and
say I think I hurt myself and Ineed to file a claim.
So oftentimes it comes outdifferent and it's up to the
supervisors to realize okay, isthis?
You know, I've got to ask somemore questions to really
understand.
Is this employee need to seekmedical treatment?
Do I need to file a claim, andhow do I best support them?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's what that
insurance coverage is for.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
We're all afraid.
I mean I automatically gotowards car insurance.
And how many times have?
I had a fender bender, and theperson that bumped me said hey,
how about I just hook you upwith 250 bucks?
And it's like well, you know,let's, let's walk through this.
There's a reason why thisstructure is in place.
And don't be afraid to use it,especially if you have guidance
(23:01):
with with folks like you Talk.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your team, like, what do
you look for in the folks thatdo what you do at AcroSure?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah, you know, I challenge my team to be curious
every day, right?
So if something isn't goingwell in a claim, or if we have a
claim that's been going on fora year and a half and we're
still kind of trying to figureout what direction it's going to
take or get a clear diagnosis,it's time to start asking the
tougher questions, right, beingcurious about other avenues that
we can explore within the claim.
Do we need an IME, should youknow?
(23:37):
Should we look at getting asecond opinion?
Do we want to put a nurse onthe file?
Because that's the biggestthing I want people to realize
is you actually do have controlin the claim process.
It may not be 100% control, butyou have channels to have some
control over the claim.
And so I typically, you know,talk to my team about being
(23:59):
curious and figuring out how toget to the end game without
sacrificing, you know, care tothe employee.
That's the biggest thing.
And think about managing claimslike it's your own money.
I mean that's the biggest thing.
And and think about managingclaims like it's your own money.
I mean that's the one piece ofadvice that my first boss at the
construction company gave me iswe have a.
(24:20):
We have a.
I think it was half a milliondollar deductible that they were
managing claims under.
He goes.
It's our money and so we haveto be very efficient in how we
manage claims and never ever wasthere was there a day that went
by that things weren't done bythe book.
I mean, it was always done inthe correct manner, but because
we were looking at it sofrequently and so heavily
(24:42):
involved in the claims, theywere more efficient.
The employees did get back towork quicker.
Less of them stayed out longeror you know it didn't take them
six months to get to an MRI.
You know we were very efficientin how we went about the
process.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Being curious, I think, is such a great piece of
advice because I'm sure that youand your folks have, you know,
specifically dealing in certainindustries, you probably see and
hear what feels like the samething day after day after day.
There's not a whole lot of nota whole lot of variety in what
actually happens in a claim, butby asking the same questions
(25:20):
again and again to differentpeople, you very well may get a
different answer that leads youin a different direction.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Don't be afraid to ask, even though you think you
might know what the answer isgoing to be, because that always
leads and listening to Right.
That's sometimes the hardestpart about being curious.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And I will also say I think the second biggest thing
too, is building relationshipsRight.
Whether you're an employer oran injured employee or or Jen or
my team.
It's so important to buildrelationships with your clients
with the adjusters, right, sothey understand kind of what
your philosophy in managingclaims looks like.
(25:59):
With the defense counsels, withyour employees, right.
If I'm the employer, thebiggest relationship you have is
with that employee, and sohaving good, strong
relationships throughout theentire process with all parties,
it makes the process so mucheasier.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Mm, hmm.
Yeah, trust asking questionsand good listening.
It sounds easy, but it's notnatural.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
No, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So it seems like the past maybe 10 years or so things
are looked at as pre-COVID,post-covid, you know a lot of
things.
So much changed, not justwithin our industry but in
looked at as pre-COVID,post-covid, you know a lot of
things.
So much changed, not justwithin our industry but in the
world as a whole, right.
So in the time that you've beenwith Acrocher and doing what
you're doing, you've probablyyou know have a ton of
experience in what you saw.
What do you see coming in thenext few years?
(26:46):
What kind of changes arehappening in the industry and
what should people keep theireyes out for?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, you know, I'm hoping more people come back to
the workforce.
I understand remote work.
I think there has been abenefit to remote work.
I think we've seen reducedclaims because of that in the
workers' comp role.
I mean, carriers are moreprofitable than they've ever
been and certainly that'sprobably a bit of a component to
it.
Medicine is certainly somethingthat's out there for folks that
(27:34):
are maybe in a you knowgeographic area that isn't privy
to having an occupationalhealth clinic.
That's something that we'reusing more frequently than we
ever have and I think it's ahuge value.
Nurse triage services too Ithink we're, you know, really
starting to utilize triage, withsome of our clients that have
kind of like four wall exposuresthat you know maybe don't need
(27:57):
to go to a doctor but can betriaged on site and save a claim
.
Those are things that I thinkwill continue to grow in the
future and I think just keepingyou know, keeping taps on
legislative stuff like what isgoing on within your
jurisdiction that you have to bemindful of, that you may want
to provide testimony over.
(28:17):
You know, like in Vermont, forexample, there's some bills
being proposed around averageweekly wage calculations and
including health insurance andsome other things.
So just always keep an eye asto what's happening in your
jurisdiction.
And if you have multiplejurisdictions you may have to
(28:38):
keep an eye on what's going onin those specific jurisdictions.
But one little piece oflegislative bill that's passed
can really wreak havoc on thecomp system if it's not caught.
So always keep an eye as towhat's going on.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
From that standpoint, so you're in Vermont but
obviously you work withemployers all over the country.
Is it okay if we give youremail out if anybody has any
questions that they can reachout to directly?
Jen, how can they do that?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, so my email is j-e-b-a-R-R-E-T-T at
acrochurecom.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Terrific, and I'll put that in the show notes too,
so hopefully you'll get a floodof questions.
Jen, thank you for spendingtime with us.
It's really interesting, greatinformation, and I hope you come
back again.
We appreciate it very much.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Thank you so much for having me Todd.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Thanks for listening to REA Audio.
I hope we opened up your braina bit and helped you be better
at what you do.
Please follow us on Spotify,apple Podcasts, stitcher, amazon
Music or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
How do you get better at what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Time management assistance.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
AI.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Webinars Mentors.
Open platforms like Coursera,live and virtual Live training,
live course, live training, livetraining, live training, live
training, live training, livetraining, live training.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Live training Live training Live training Live
training Live training Livetraining Live training Focus
communication, regulation anddirection.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
REA Audio.
This time of year people get soexcited Like one warm day and
it's like completely changestheir outlook because it's such
a long, dark, cold winter.
So we're going to see 50degrees on Thursday, so there'll
be some pretty happy people, Ithink.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I can recall growing up in western New York the first
day it hit like 55 or 60.
We'd all be outside in shortsand T-shirts and washing cars.
And I'll never forget all thesnow banks on the side of the
road and the roads being drybecause of all the salt and
everything.
It's still being snow, but warmenough, really not warm enough
for shorts, but we thought itwas yeah, oh for sure, yeah, no.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Absolutely enough for shorts.
But we thought it was yeah, ohfor sure, yeah, no absolutely
that will be.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
this week that will be.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Thursday Good, we'll enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, awesome, jennifer Barrett.
So you are a director of riskresources at Acroshore, but you
have a background inconstruction, which I guess you
know.
It's funny when I look at theword resources and I know we're
going to kind of talk about thisas we kind of move along but
resources always looks to melike it means something
(01:29):
beforehand.
Right, you need to haveresources before you can move on
and do other things, and so Ithink the title that you have at
AcroShare is definitely goingto lead us into maybe some
preparation stuff that peoplecan learn from our conversation.
But tell us a little bit aboutyour background in construction
and how it got you to where youare now with AcroShare.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
My job at the constructioncompany was one of my most
favorite jobs.
I loved every moment of it.
I had a boss that was soincredibly smart and talented
and challenged my brain on adaily basis, and part of my role
(02:15):
within the construction companywas to manage their claims, and
they had a very largedeductible.
So they, you know, they reallycalled the shots.
They didn't adjust their ownclaims, but they really directed
the adjusters to kind ofexactly what they wanted to have
happen to.
You know, make sure that theclaims were handled in the most
efficient and effective manner,without sacrificing care for the
employee.
And I learned so much throughthat process and just saw how
(02:38):
much money was on the table whenyou manage claims well, it just
saw how much money was on thetable when you manage claims
well.
And so when I saw the jobposting for the position that
I'm in now, I thought to myselfI really didn't want to make a
move.
But I thought to myself what anincredible skill to be able to
help smaller businesses thatdon't have a risk manager be
(03:03):
able to, you know, have control,or think that they have control
, over workers' comp claims.
Because I can tell you everytime you talk to somebody about
workers' comp and if they've hada bad claim, the process is
horrible to them, right?
And they think that they haveabsolutely no control, and
that's so not true.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, and that's actually on both sides of the
fence as well.
You know, with what we do atreemployability, we work closely
with employers, but we alsowork closely with injured
workers and I feel like bothsides almost feel the same way
and there's this immediate wall,I think, that develops between
the two parties involved in aclaim.
You had mentioned that what youlearned was being able to
(03:43):
manage claims efficiently butstill keeping the best interest
of your employees in mind.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, Like what are some
of those things that you can doto be able to do both?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, of course I think you absolutely have to
advocate medically for youremployee, right?
If the workers' comp system canbe very daunting to an employee
that's never been through theprocess, the medical system
alone can be daunting, right.
So when you bring both together, it's extra daunting.
And so we often would help theemployee kind of understand what
(04:17):
benefits were within theworkers' comp claim that could
help him or her navigate themedical process, to get you know
treatment quicker or adiagnostic quicker that would
lead to treatment quicker.
And so oftentimes nurse casemanagers, you know, we would
partner with one particular firmthat we used and we would
(04:38):
connect the dots to get them,you know, a nurse to help kind
of guide them through thatmedical process, to make it feel
a bit less scary and to makethe medical process more
efficient.
Obviously, the other piece of itwas getting them back in a work
environment right, and itdidn't have to be the same exact
work environment, becauseoftentimes injured employees
(05:00):
have work modifications orrestrictions and they can't do
their typical job.
So finding them work that wassatisfying for them too, while
not being able to contributelike they used to prior to the
injury, and helping themmentally understand that we're
your partner here.
We're going to get you throughthis.
These restrictions, hopefully,are temporary and we're here to
(05:23):
support your transition back tofull duty.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
It sounds like you had a pretty good line of
communication between youremployees and kind of explained
the process.
That's one of the things we runinto here.
Too many times we find thatemployers, when there's a work
comp claim, they cut their tiesessentially and they don't have
that communication, and I canimagine what that must feel like
(05:46):
for an employee.
What sort of things did you doto keep those lines of
communication in place whensomebody was at home and then if
you were providing a return towork of any kind?
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yeah, we would check in with them frequently Myself,
their supervisor so they had acouple of proactive touches
throughout the week, especiallyif they weren't at work.
You know the statistics whenpeople are out of work.
The longer they're out of work,the less likely they're coming
back right.
So that first two weeks is justso incredibly critical to make
(06:23):
that employee feel like they'restill part of the team.
We've got their arms aroundthem, we're here to help them
through the process.
They don't have to navigate itby themselves.
And so there were frequentcheck-ins and the same with
their direct supervisor.
We spent a lot of time educatingour supervisors on how to deal
with taking employees back towork and putting them into light
(06:44):
duty and making sure that thosetransitions happen successfully
so that there wasn't anyregression in their symptoms or
in their injury.
And I think that was, you know,so hugely helpful.
Their direct supervisors, youknow they have to be a part of
the team, they have tounderstand the process, and
(07:05):
that's where so many things cango wrong, right, I mean, I don't
think employees generally wantto disappoint their supervisors.
Right, they want.
They want to do the right thingfor the most part, and so
making sure that the supervisorsthey are supporting them is
huge.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's a tremendous.
It makes such a difference inthe whole process of the claim
and I'm so glad that youmentioned like within those
first two weeks.
The statistics that we haveshow that if you can get
somebody back into some kind ofmodified duty within 30 days,
there's a 90% chance thatthey're going to come back to
work.
If that goes six months, that'scut in half.
It's like 50%, which is crazy.
(07:44):
Can you?
From a practical standpoint andI don't mean to keep harping on
this, but it seems like it'ssuch a glaring thing that
happens when we're working withemployers what are some of the
practical things that you do tostay in communication with your
employees?
Speaker 3 (08:05):
employees yeah, I mean literally just pick the
phone up and say, hey, how is itgoing, we're just checking in
on you, how's your recoverygoing?
Is everything going well fromthe claim standpoint?
Because a lot of times theemployees won't say, hey,
they've missed my paycheck orhey, they're not approving
diagnostic tests in a timelyfashion.
I've been waiting three weeksfor an MRI.
If you check in with themperiodically and make sure that
(08:26):
all of that stuff is goingsmoothly, hopefully the process
for that employee is moreefficient.
If you don't, and they arewaiting three weeks or four
weeks for approval of an MRItest, that then takes another
three to four weeks to get onthe books.
The dollars of the claimquickly add up and how the
employee in their work capacityis likely in a more stagnant
(08:51):
situation versus kind of gettingback to work, figuring out
what's going on and getting backto work.
So you know it's not just amatter of hey, how are you doing
, it's how is everything going?
Is the adjuster returning yourphone calls?
Are you getting what you needfrom the insurance carrier?
Are we doing what we need?
To check in with you?
You know that type of stuff,and just assuring them that you
(09:13):
know their job is still there.
They're excited for them tocome back when they're ready.
That means so much when youfail to check in with your
employees.
I mean they're at home.
There's attorneys commercialsall the time on the television,
right.
And when somebody sits homewithout any kind of affiliation
(09:34):
to what they were doing right atwork and they're feeling kind
of secluded and alone, it's easyfor them to make a phone call
or accept a phone call from anattorney who really aren't going
to act in their best interest,right aren't going to act in
their best interest, right?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, that makes so much sense and there's a lot of
fear, I think there's fear onboth sides right.
When an injured worker is home,possibly for the first time
ever, they don't know if thatjob's still going to be there.
They don't know what the roleof an adjuster is.
There's so much there thatthey're just guessing on.
And you're right.
When that attorney commercialcomes up, I mean there, it is
right, that's the first personthey're going to go to, because
they make them feel comfortable.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Yeah, and I will just add I would say one of the
biggest things that you can dofrom an employer standpoint is
to make sure that the employeefeels supported.
Really honestly, I know thatfrom an employer standpoint,
when somebody gets injured, theemployer's thinking okay, dollar
signs, right, my mod is goingto go up or my insurance
premiums are going to go up.
(10:30):
If we manage the claimefficiently and effectively and
take care of our employee andget them back to work quickly,
it's not going to go up that bad.
If we, you know, fail to takecare of our employees, fail to
check in with them, and thenthey get an attorney, yeah, it
is going to affect your mod,right.
So doing the right thing out ofthe box from you know, from a
(10:53):
claim standpoint is just, it'sso impactful.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So that's the fear side of the employee.
What about the fear side of theemployer?
What are some of the thingsthat small companies are facing
that stress them out the most?
Speaker 3 (11:06):
now, yeah, I mean I think their experience Maude
right and the ability to procureinsurance for a reasonable
amount of money, and then Iwould also say being down an
employee having to pay anotheremployer, potentially over time.
You know, smaller businessesdon't have a ton of margin
typically to cover those costs,and so it's scary for them.
(11:30):
So those are definitely some ofthe things that we hear from
our employers, like what am Igoing to do without this key
employee or this valued employee?
Now, all of these otheremployees are going to have to
work extra.
I'm paying overtime I have, youknow, I have more expense than
I'm used to.
And oh, by the way, now myexperience mod is going to go up
and my insurance premiums aregoing to go up, and so they you
(11:53):
know they the cost of it becomesan impact to them.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
For sure.
And so how does Acrisure comein and help these clients manage
their claims?
What are some of those, thoseresources that you're able to
provide to them?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yeah, that's a great question and you know, and any
broker for that matter, shouldbe able to help you through the
claims process.
I do like to think we're verydifferent in how we approach
risk management in general andclaims.
You know we think of them asone.
A good risk management programdoesn't just encompass safety or
claims management, it's both,and so we bring both resources
(12:33):
to the table.
The proactive piece, which isthe safety side of things, we
will plug in and help whereverwe have to to mitigate loss.
We have a very routine,systematic process for doing
what we call claim reviews forour larger clients that do
generate some claim activity,and we do those strategically
(12:57):
throughout the year so thatwe're looking at the claim
reserves prior to the mod beingcalculated and then prior to the
client redoing their insuranceor even potentially going out to
market to make sure that theclaims are reserved
appropriately and those reservesthat could be inflated are not
(13:24):
going into their mod and they'renot going into a loss run that
a potential carrier is going tolook at and really kind of
underwrite their business basedon a number.
That's not correct.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Right Aside from safety.
Some of the things we weretalking about before we recorded
this were that there are someservices that you feel like too
frequently are looked atpost-injury and not necessarily
prepared for pre-injury Can youtalk about some of those things
that maybe a risk managerlistening now could look more
(13:50):
into.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, I think there's a lot that you can do
pre-injury right From a riskmanagement standpoint.
Adopt a return to work program.
Work with your broker orcarrier they should have
resources for it but adopt aphilosophy to bring people back
to work.
Understand where you can bringpeople in light-duty positions,
(14:12):
in medium-duty positions, inmedium to heavy-duty positions.
So find positions within yourorganization that you could
accommodate somebody being inthat role for a little bit of
time as they transition throughthe work injury.
If you don't have thatopportunity, obviously
re-employability is a fabulousresource for that.
(14:34):
We refer to you guys all thetime.
I mean, we do have certainorganizations where it is hard
to find light duty within thoseorganizations and so in those
situations we absolutely referto you guys.
So definitely adopt a lightduty program.
That is one of the mostimpactful things that you can do
(14:54):
from a workers' comp standpoint.
Number two partner with anoccupational health clinic, a
concentra a clear choice.
Whoever may be near you thatunderstands workers' comp is
willing to come and visit yourfacility and understand your
philosophy around workers' compand direct care there, if you
(15:16):
can statutorily.
So always look at your statesand figure out what you can do
from a medical standpoint.
Here in Vermont we can directthe first visit so hugely
important to have AHRQ healthclinics to direct to, because
emergency medicine just doesn'tunderstand workers' comp.
It's extremely expensive andprimary care physicians really
(15:39):
don't understand workers' compeither.
So AHRQ Med is a huge benefit.
Third, I would say educatesupervisors.
Any supervisor you're bringingon.
If they're responsible forpeople, managing people and
they're exposed to work injury,put them through a workers' comp
101.
(16:00):
And that's something that we do.
We educate a lot of supervisors.
They're the boots on the groundthat are, you know, in the
trenches every day with thesefolks and they need to
understand what their role isand how impactful it is to the
employee.
Right, because it can go verywell.
It can also go very wrong ifit's not dealt with properly.
So ensure that supervisorsreally understand your light
(16:29):
duty program, how to handleinjuries, when to report them,
all of those things.
And I would say, give veryclear instructions to new
employees as they come on aboutreporting what is you know, what
is your process, how do youreport a claim?
Let them know what you know,what you expect from a safety
perspective.
I think that's a really bigpart of it too.
New employees are obviouslymost at risk of getting injured.
(16:49):
They typically get injured morefrequently.
So really make sure that you'retaking time to kind of, you
know, train them, mentor themand if and when they do get
injured, they know what theprocess is.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
When you were in the construction industry, how many
phone calls did you get afternormal business hours from a
manager saying somebody got hurt?
Speaker 3 (17:10):
What do I do now?
Many and I still get them today,even outside of the
construction business.
So yeah, it's.
You know it's out there andpeople are.
So, like I said, people are soprotected they're protected
because of their experience modsso they're so worried about
what is this going to do.
You know, a mod can jump 30points from one claim.
(17:35):
That's 30% of premium.
So if you're paying 100 grandin premium, 30 points is $30,000
.
It takes a lot of money to make$30,000.
So you can understand whythey're so protective of their
mod.
And so when they do have claims, oftentimes like, do I need to
report this?
And the answer is always yes youhave to you know you have to
(17:56):
report it and let the carrieryou know, the people that are
licensed to adjudicate claims inthat jurisdiction kind of make
the determination.
But I will say, whenever I havea difficult claim and difficult
, I mean, you know, not sure ifthe injury is completely legit,
has some, you know, interestingcircumstances around it, just
(18:18):
doesn't feel right I always willwork with my clients, the
employers and the carrier.
I'll get everybody on theconference line and just kind of
develop a plan so we're all onthe same page.
We all know how to navigate itgoing forward, and oftentimes
that's followed up by, you know,phone calls, monthly phone
calls, just to kind of make surethings are still moving in the
(18:39):
right direction.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
So you mentioned.
You know, sometimes you justget that feeling that
something's just not right.
We also talked about the levelof communication that's
necessary from the employer tothe employee so that that
employee feels like they'restill a part of that
organization.
So obviously there's a mindsetfor employers I think they many
(19:03):
default to.
I don't think this is legit orI think there's something wrong?
Right yeah, which isunfortunate.
I truly believe that themajority of claims are like what
you said at the beginningPeople want to get back to work.
They want to do the right thing.
What do you do in your role tohelp change that mindset that
employers have of this is bunkto?
(19:26):
Maybe we'll take the benefit ofthe doubt and move forward in
the right way.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
So oftentimes the employers that have those
mindset, you can see, I canusually tell, like if I'm going
out on a prospect meeting, right, and I've seen their loss runs
or know their claim historymaybe they sent me a claim
review I can usually tell by thelevel of litigation in the
claims If there's a, you know,kind of a tougher relationship
(19:52):
with the, you know with theemployer and the employee when
they get injured Becauseoftentimes they do go to a
attorney.
You know, like, if they havethat adversarial relationship
right away, like I don't want toreport this, this employee
really didn't get hurt here, youknow it makes the employees
kind of feel not great and sothey feel like, okay, well, now
I need to fight for the factthat I feel like I did get hurt
(20:15):
here and they get an attorney.
We spend a lot of time tryingto educate those employers.
That you know, early reportingand letting the carrier do their
job, and letting the carrier dotheir job, obviously with our
(20:46):
involvement, is the best way toalong.
Or I should have been a littlebit more proactive in how I
handled my employees becausethey see, you know, they may see
the benefit quickly of changingtheir mindset and getting these
claims reported and treatingthese employees in a better
light.
It just it sets the stage whenyou have an employer that
(21:07):
immediately we call it posturingright, they immediately posture
against the employee and theydon't think it's a valid claim.
It just makes for a veryadversarial relationship from
the beginning of the claim andit will drag on because of it.
An employee doesn't want tocome back to work for somebody
that's going to treat them likethat when they need them the
(21:29):
most right.
And if it is, you know, if itis a claim where the validity is
a problem, we work with theadjuster to try and make sure
that we're getting to the bottomof that and doing what we need
to do within the statute toensure that it you know it's
denied or whatever needs tohappen from that standpoint
(21:51):
happens.
But most of the time you'reright.
They're pretty credibleinjuries and a lot of times the
hardest thing as an employee isgoing to your supervisor and
saying I hurt myself, right, alot of times.
What reporting a claim soundslike from an employee's
standpoint is I think I may havetweaked my back the other day
Because they have so much angstabout saying that to somebody.
(22:15):
If you really think that nobodywants to go to their boss and
say I think I hurt myself and Ineed to file a claim.
So oftentimes it comes outdifferent and it's up to the
supervisors to realize okay, isthis?
You know, I've got to ask somemore questions to really
understand.
Is this employee need to seekmedical treatment?
Do I need to file a claim, andhow do I best support them?
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, and at the end of the day, that's what that
insurance coverage is for.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
It is.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
We're all afraid.
I mean I automatically gotowards car insurance.
And how many times have?
I had a fender bender, and theperson that bumped me said hey,
how about I just hook you upwith 250 bucks?
And it's like well, you know,let's, let's walk through this.
There's a reason why thisstructure is in place.
And don't be afraid to use it,especially if you have guidance
(23:01):
with with folks like you Talk.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your team, like, what do
you look for in the folks thatdo what you do at AcroSure?
Speaker 3 (23:15):
Yeah, you know, I challenge my team to be curious
every day, right?
So if something isn't goingwell in a claim, or if we have a
claim that's been going on fora year and a half and we're
still kind of trying to figureout what direction it's going to
take or get a clear diagnosis,it's time to start asking the
tougher questions, right, beingcurious about other avenues that
we can explore within the claim.
Do we need an IME, should youknow?
(23:37):
Should we look at getting asecond opinion?
Do we want to put a nurse onthe file?
Because that's the biggestthing I want people to realize
is you actually do have controlin the claim process.
It may not be 100% control, butyou have channels to have some
control over the claim.
And so I typically, you know,talk to my team about being
(23:59):
curious and figuring out how toget to the end game without
sacrificing, you know, care tothe employee.
That's the biggest thing.
And think about managing claimslike it's your own money.
I mean that's the biggest thing.
And and think about managingclaims like it's your own money.
I mean that's the one piece ofadvice that my first boss at the
construction company gave me iswe have a.
(24:20):
We have a.
I think it was half a milliondollar deductible that they were
managing claims under.
He goes.
It's our money and so we haveto be very efficient in how we
manage claims and never ever wasthere was there a day that went
by that things weren't done bythe book.
I mean, it was always done inthe correct manner, but because
we were looking at it sofrequently and so heavily
(24:42):
involved in the claims, theywere more efficient.
The employees did get back towork quicker.
Less of them stayed out longeror you know it didn't take them
six months to get to an MRI.
You know we were very efficientin how we went about the
process.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Being curious, I think, is such a great piece of
advice because I'm sure that youand your folks have, you know,
specifically dealing in certainindustries, you probably see and
hear what feels like the samething day after day after day.
There's not a whole lot of nota whole lot of variety in what
actually happens in a claim, butby asking the same questions
(25:20):
again and again to differentpeople, you very well may get a
different answer that leads youin a different direction.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Don't be afraid to ask, even though you think you
might know what the answer isgoing to be, because that always
leads and listening to Right.
That's sometimes the hardestpart about being curious.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And I will also say I think the second biggest thing
too, is building relationshipsRight.
Whether you're an employer oran injured employee or or Jen or
my team.
It's so important to buildrelationships with your clients
with the adjusters, right, sothey understand kind of what
your philosophy in managingclaims looks like.
(25:59):
With the defense counsels, withyour employees, right.
If I'm the employer, thebiggest relationship you have is
with that employee, and sohaving good, strong
relationships throughout theentire process with all parties,
it makes the process so mucheasier.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Mm, hmm.
Yeah, trust asking questionsand good listening.
It sounds easy, but it's notnatural.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
No, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So it seems like the past maybe 10 years or so things
are looked at as pre-COVID,post-covid, you know a lot of
things.
So much changed, not justwithin our industry but in
looked at as pre-COVID,post-covid, you know a lot of
things.
So much changed, not justwithin our industry but in the
world as a whole, right.
So in the time that you've beenwith Acrocher and doing what
you're doing, you've probablyyou know have a ton of
experience in what you saw.
What do you see coming in thenext few years?
(26:46):
What kind of changes arehappening in the industry and
what should people keep theireyes out for?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, you know, I'm hoping more people come back to
the workforce.
I understand remote work.
I think there has been abenefit to remote work.
I think we've seen reducedclaims because of that in the
workers' comp role.
I mean, carriers are moreprofitable than they've ever
been and certainly that'sprobably a bit of a component to
it.
Medicine is certainly somethingthat's out there for folks that
(27:34):
are maybe in a you knowgeographic area that isn't privy
to having an occupationalhealth clinic.
That's something that we'reusing more frequently than we
ever have and I think it's ahuge value.
Nurse triage services too Ithink we're, you know, really
starting to utilize triage, withsome of our clients that have
kind of like four wall exposuresthat you know maybe don't need
(27:57):
to go to a doctor but can betriaged on site and save a claim
.
Those are things that I thinkwill continue to grow in the
future and I think just keepingyou know, keeping taps on
legislative stuff like what isgoing on within your
jurisdiction that you have to bemindful of, that you may want
to provide testimony over.
(28:17):
You know, like in Vermont, forexample, there's some bills
being proposed around averageweekly wage calculations and
including health insurance andsome other things.
So just always keep an eye asto what's happening in your
jurisdiction.
And if you have multiplejurisdictions you may have to
(28:38):
keep an eye on what's going onin those specific jurisdictions.
But one little piece oflegislative bill that's passed
can really wreak havoc on thecomp system if it's not caught.
So always keep an eye as towhat's going on.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
From that standpoint, so you're in Vermont but
obviously you work withemployers all over the country.
Is it okay if we give youremail out if anybody has any
questions that they can reachout to directly?
Jen, how can they do that?
Speaker 3 (29:05):
Yeah, so my email is j-e-b-a-R-R-E-T-T at
acrochurecom.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Terrific, and I'll put that in the show notes too,
so hopefully you'll get a floodof questions.
Jen, thank you for spendingtime with us.
It's really interesting, greatinformation, and I hope you come
back again.
We appreciate it very much.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
Thank you so much for having me Todd.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Thanks for listening to REA Audio.
I hope we opened up your braina bit and helped you be better
at what you do.
Please follow us on Spotify,apple Podcasts, stitcher, amazon
Music or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
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