December 12, 2024 • 25 mins
Explore how economic shifts and technological advancements are transforming the workers' compensation industry with Debra Livingston, founder and CEO of ReEmployAbility. We discuss cost containment strategies amid rising medical and wage inflation, the growing importance of return-to-work programs, and mentorship’s role in addressing the talent shortage.
This episode also tackles strategic planning during adversity, including lessons from Florida’s natural disasters and year-end settlement challenges. Plus, discover the potential of AI in the workplace and its impact on efficiency and workplace culture. Join us for insights on growth, resilience, and navigating the trends shaping 2025.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
perspective.
Perspective is spelled p e r sp e c t I v e perspective the 30
000 foot view perspective puton someone else's shoes.
Perspective can also refer tothe state of existing in space
(00:20):
or one's view of the world.
Perspective REA Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Reemployability.
So how was your 2024?
Did you get everything donethat you wanted to?
Did it meet your expectationsand did you stick to your new
year's resolution?
Well, it seems like the yearsgo by faster and faster and,
before you know it, it's time towrap up the past and plan for
the future.
We had an exciting year on REAAudio, diving into historical
(00:50):
topics, personal stories ofovercoming adversity and
exploring life hacks to make youbetter at business and at home.
So, to put a bow on 2024, weinvited Deb Livingston, founder
and CEO of Reemployability, totalk about trends that came up
this past year in business andwork comp.
She also shares what she seesin her crystal ball for 2025.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
More than 40 percent of Americans make New Year's
resolutions every year, but only8 percent of us keep them.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Deb, thank you.
I love wrapping up the yearwith you on REA Audio and what's
really fun is, you know, kindof looking back and look back in
the last years and see wherekind of the predictions were and
everything.
But so, all in all for 2024,like in the workers comp world,
is it what you thought it wasgoing to be?
What happened in 2024?
That kind of stood out to you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, I think it was.
I think you know we hadexpected that economic growth
would slow and because you knowinflation and high interest
rates and the job market wasgoing to be challenging, and I
think those things are all true.
You know interest rates arestarting to decline now and
inflation remains persistent.
So those things all impactworkers' compensation and I
(02:01):
think there were predictionslast year about how medical and
wage inflation would impactpremiums and workers'
compensation, and I think therewere predictions last year about
how medical and wage inflationwould impact premiums and
workers' compensation and Ithink those are similar things
that are going to continue into2025.
I think we did see that come tofruition and we'll continue to
see that in 2025.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, from the perspective of somebody that
maybe not is familiar withworkers' compensation, just very
, very basic.
So when?
If, for example, there is aneconomic downturn.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
How does that directly impact the workers'
compensation world?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, so I'll answer that kind of on the flip side
right.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So when we are in a more business-friendly
environment, like what we areanticipating for 2025, we
definitely see more jobs.
And when there are more jobsand people working, then people
of course, get injured, which wedon't like to see, but that
happens and that's really whatfuels part of our workers'
confidence industry, especiallyas a service provider right.
(02:58):
All of us service providersrely on the health of the
economy for us to continue togrow and bloom, right.
And then I actually read anarticle recently about 2025 that
we actually might see moresupply chain moves into the
United States from othercountries and if that happens,
that's going to mean an increasein manufacturing jobs here.
(03:19):
And as more workers join theworkforce, we see an increase in
frequency rates for claims.
So that is what keeps ourworkers' compensation industry,
I would say, chugging along andmoving and maybe healthy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And when you say healthy.
So if we look at, I always tryto equate what we do to car
insurance because I think mostpeople can kind of understand
right the way that works.
So if we're looking at morejobs into this country, more
manufacturing jobs, more ofthose types of jobs that may
cause more claims because ofinjuries, right, how does that
(03:55):
impact rates for all companiesacross the board?
Does that increase rates ifthere's more people getting
injured or does it decreaserates because there's more
people in the economy, or doesit decrease rates because
there's more people in theeconomy that are getting
workers' compensation insurance?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things there.
So I talked a little bit aboutmedical inflation and wage
inflation.
Those things will causepremiums to increase Because, as
you know, workers' compensationis based on payroll dollars.
A lot of it is based on payrolldollars.
So because of that, if wagesincrease, then automatically
(04:31):
payroll your premiums are goingto increase as a result of those
wages increasing right, andthen with medical inflation,
companies are going to belooking at those dollars that
are being spent right, so that'salso going to impact the
premiums as well.
But as we have more workers inthe economy, those cost
containment strategies becomethat much more important.
And with wage inflation andmedical inflation it becomes
(04:52):
more important to control costs.
And so, because of that, all ofthose of us in the industry
that are in the service providerindustry, where we work part of
the industry, where we actuallyprovide a cost containment
service, those services becomemore important.
So, like a good return to workprogram would be really
important to helping to containcosts, reduce medical, reduce
litigation, those kinds ofthings.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Right exactly?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Were there any surprises that popped out at you
this year, in 2024, in theworkers' comp world?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I don't think so, not really.
I think one of the things I'mreally enjoying seeing is, you
know, there's been a shortage oftalent in our industry and I've
seen the pop up of morementorship programs, like we
have the Rise ProfessionalsGroup and we saw data emerge as
well.
So these are two really strongnow mentorship programs and I'm
seeing a lot of people go intothose programs.
(05:43):
That's been really nice to seeto attract more people into our
industry.
I think that we'll continue tosee talent acquisition be a
challenge, and so the more wesee companies investing in those
mentorship type programs, thebetter it's going to be for the
industry as a whole.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Every time I talk to somebody new, whether it's a
client, a risk manager, someonewith a TPA or a carrier I always
ask them how did you getinvolved?
And I've never, ever metanybody who was like well, I
graduated from X and X schooland I decided to get into
workers' compensation Likenobody.
Everybody kind of falls into it.
(06:19):
It would be kind of nice to seemore aggressive recruitment by
particular organizations rightout of school into this industry
.
I mean, I know WorkConc Collegeis a great resource that we
have that here atReemployability.
A number of us have been ableto take advantage of an
associate's course.
I've got three more to go.
I just finished the riskmanager one yesterday and it was
(06:43):
great because it was aconversation.
I just finished the riskmanager one yesterday and it was
great because it was aconversation.
It was an interview and had arisk manager from California
talk about what that role is andit was really interesting to me
because those are our mainfocus from a client perspective
on the sales end to reallyunderstand what they did on a
daily basis.
It's an exciting industry.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It really is, and there's so much opportunity in
so many different areas.
Right, it's not just handlingclaims.
Right, there's an area forfinance and accounting and
underwriting and social media,and I mean you name it.
there's a position for it youknow, in the insurance industry
and I would say that I think asa whole the industry has done a
better job of recruiting.
I've seen really great programscome out of Gallagher Bassett
(07:23):
and Summit Insurance as well.
They both have what I'mfamiliar with are some type of
internship programs for collegestudents, and I think that's
attracting new people into ourindustry.
Out there that have more, youknow, programs that are more of
a coordinated, I guess you'd sayright where they actually do
(07:49):
recruiting, that we just don'tknow about.
Yeah living in those circles.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Well, I'm going to meet somebody next year, I'm
sure that said, I got recruitedright out of school to work here
.
Yeah, that would be, that wouldbe great.
Yeah, because I'm very gladthat I kind of fell into this
industry and that was, you know,the conversation that they had
on that course that I that Ijust took.
You know the risk manager wastalking about, depending on who
she reports to, is reallydependent upon the focus, right?
Is it finances at HR, and thoseare two very different roles
(08:15):
that she has to walk into.
And and there's a there's a,there's a creativity that comes
along with being able to develop, to develop solutions that she
has to do, which I love thatpart of it as well.
So that was really, really goodto see.
So now you started as a adjusterback in the day and I know
things have changed since then.
When you came into thisindustry, were you surprised by
(08:40):
anything?
Obviously, you're still here,so you're pleasantly surprised
in kind of how it worked.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat history that you had in
becoming an adjuster and workingyour way up in the industry,
because I have a follow upquestion to that.
But I want to kind of set the,set the foundation first.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So I, as you know, I'm one of those people that
also fell into the industry.
Right, I, out of college, Iactually worked in retail and
got tired of the nine to five,not nine to five.
I got tired of the hours andthe weekend Beyond nine to five.
I wanted a nine to five officejob so badly, like anything to
get out of, like standing on thefloor at the Gap or 12 hour
(09:15):
days, right.
So so I kind of just stumbledinto the industry.
Edmont Insurance was lookingfor claims adjusters and I was
fortunate enough to be a part ofone of their their claims
training programs.
So that's how I got into it.
Definitely, claims has changed.
I can't even begin to scratchthe surface on all those changes
because I haven't been so farremoved from it for so long.
(09:37):
But I know with theintroduction of AI, there's got
to be some things, someefficiencies that have been
brought into their role.
It's a very administrative role, so I would imagine that many
companies have done put thingsin place to help with that
administrative function.
I don't think we'll ever getaway from the human touch.
I think that that was one of thethings I always loved about
(09:57):
being an adjuster is thecommunication I had with injured
workers.
Obviously, one of the bigthings that changed back then
was we met with injured workersface to face.
That stopped existing a longtime ago I don't even remember
how far back, but I think thatwas kind of nice to be able to
sit across the table with aninjured worker and really get to
know them, and so I think thatwe are putting more of an
(10:20):
emphasis on that worker and therecovery of that worker and
building a relationship with theworker.
And you saw that probablythrough the work comp college
courses that you took.
There's a lot about thepsychological behaviors of an
injured worker and emotionalintelligence and all of that
that goes into play.
So I think there's that more ofan emphasis on that care for
(10:41):
the person versus thetransaction and I think that's
seeing the industry move thatway has really been great, yeah,
and I'm sure's being theindustry move that way has
really been great.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, and I'm sure there was much more of an
emphasis on that when you weredoing adjusting right.
How long were you in that rolefor?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I was an adjuster maybe a total of about three or
four years.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Okay, so long enough to be in a situation where you
understood trends year afteryear.
So that kind of leads me to myquestion.
So if I'm an adjuster listeningnow again understanding that
technologies are different,processes are different, but the
foundation and the core isreally the same what were you
doing now, this time of year, toprepare for next year or to
(11:20):
wind things up for this year?
Is there any words of wisdomyou could give to someone?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I mean.
What I recall about this timein Europe is it was a heavy
settlement time of year, likethe holidays were always a time
when injured workers werelooking for ways to resolve
their claims, to kind of moveinto next year with it being
behind them and moving forward.
So I think I would imaginethat's not really changed much
over the years.
But that's what I specificallyremember about the holidays a
(11:46):
lot of negotiations ofsettlements and resolving cases,
and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It is a good thing Right For you as the adjuster
perspective right kind of startwith a fresh slate next year as
much as you possibly can?
Absolutely yeah, for sure.
So this year inre-employability was we all
faced some adversity, not onlyhere at work but outside right,
and we're based in Florida,tampa, florida and we got hit
(12:12):
with two back-to-back hurricanesand I know you were
specifically impacted.
Talk a little bit about theadversity and how you overcame
what you had to overcome if youdon't mind you.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
you mean through the storms.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, through the storms and how it related
personally into the office andhow you.
What were some of the thingsthat you drew from to help you
get?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
through that.
Yeah well, first of all,anytime you go through an
experience like that, you justnever know how you're going to
handle it right.
I'm very fortunate that we havesuch an incredible team of
people here at-employabilitythat so much was taken care of
from the standpoint of theoffice.
But I mean, probably whatpeople don't really realize is
when you have a business thatyou run and you have a hundred
lives that you're taking care of, everybody has a need, right,
(12:55):
Everybody's concerned.
They're scared.
One of the things we did was toimmediately send people home to
take care of their families, towork remote as they could, and,
and I think that kind of helpedto alleviate everybody's
concerns about how am I going toget my household ready and
those kind of things.
But we, you know, atreemployability we have to touch
so many lives.
(13:16):
So we have injured workers atlocations throughout the state
of Florida, we have clientsthroughout the state of Florida,
we have nonprofit partnersthroughout the state of Florida
with all of those people andmaking sure that they know that
they're taken care of.
We're taking care of them andour clients are taking care of
those injured workers that areparticipating in those areas
where a hurricane might behitting.
(13:36):
So there's a lot ofcommunication and coordination
that goes with all of that andwe really can never completely
shut down because of that,because we need to be available
to those injured workers if theyneed us For me, as you know,
those injured workers if theyneed us For me, as you know, my
house got four feet of water init and so dealing with that
(14:02):
devastation and all of theemotion that goes with losing
pretty much your entirehousehold was pretty rough.
But what was the shining lightout of all of that is the team
here just took care ofeverything that they needed to
take care of so that I couldtake care of what I had to
pretty much at home.
So, and I actually, in all thatwe went through, still feel so
blessed because so many peoplehad it so much worse than I have
had, you know, through thatwhole ordeal.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's funny that you said my very.
I didn't give you this questionjust so everybody knows that
right.
So in my notes here I puthurricanes, adversity.
Sometimes we don't know howwe're going to handle things
until they actually happen.
And I'm so glad that you saidthat, because that's really why
I wanted to bring that up.
And when you plan for things,people have to understand that
it doesn't what Mike Tyson Ithink he said everybody makes a
(14:50):
plan until they get punched inthe face, right, and that's
exactly what happened, right Forsure.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, and we're still dealing with the aftermath of
everything from home and.
Milton, because the city that welive in, the permitting process
has been horrendous and so westill can't rebuild.
It's just this whole clog, clogthat we're in, you know, and
we've heard the same from somany others.
So it really does give youperspective on um what other
(15:18):
people have gone through duringhurricanes and you see this
devastation on the news, but youdon't really know firsthand
until you go through it yourselfyeah, yeah, till you actually
walk down the street and seethere's, there's my house, right
, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So are there things that you did that you feel like?
From your past experiences youknow, either as a business owner
or personally, that that helpedyou to get through that time,
that time period?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I think that OK.
So you know, we've been inbusiness 20 years.
Actually, we just went into our21st year of business.
And so going through what we'vebeen through in business for 20
years and I think probably themost challenging time was COVID,
right?
So I would say yes, I meangoing through something like a
COVID where the whole worldbasically shut down overnight
(16:06):
and we had to completely pivotthe way we did business so that
we can continue to be inbusiness, it does help you for a
disaster.
You learn a lot through thoseexperiences.
You learn about endurance, youlearn about how you need to just
shift and sometimes you have togo with the flow.
You know, sometimes you justgot to pull yourself up from
your bootstraps and just forgeforward.
(16:27):
You know, flight fright orfreeze?
Yeah, flight or freeze.
So I'm not a freeze person, I'mdefinitely a flight person.
I just kind of run through, andso that's kind of been a good
thing for me.
I don't stay still during acrisis, right.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So we're running into a new year 2025, right, and not
necessarily from a workers'comp perspective or even an
insurance perspective, but ifyou can just put your business
owner glasses on right, there'sa lot of changes coming up in
next year.
I think and you know, notnecessarily even to get
political, but I think it'spretty obvious there's a lot of
(17:11):
changes coming up in our economyfor next year and one of the
things I learned was that youlearn about how the economy is
going by talking to otherbusiness owners across the
country, not by listening orwatching TV.
Right, the news isn'tnecessarily going to give you
what's actually happening bootson the ground.
What are you seeing boots onthe ground as a business owner
(17:32):
here in Florida, and how do youthink that translates into the
rest of the country?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I think that the elimination of some regulation
for business is going to helpbusiness, especially small
business, and I would considerus still relatively small.
I think that helps peoplecreate businesses and jobs.
I was listening to a podcastrecently and it was a capital
(17:58):
investment firm and he wastalking about how they weren't
really looking at a lot ofinvestments over the last four
years, doing big investments andour industry and where comp is.
There's been a lot of.
There's a lot of acquisitionsand sales and movement of
companies in our industry and Ithink we might see that
happening again because I think,as as regulations start to lift
(18:18):
and the economy gets a littlebit stronger and the business
environment improves, I thinkwe'll start to see a little bit
more of that happening.
You know more money flowinginto companies and maybe we'll
see a little bit more of thathappening more money flowing
into companies and maybe we'llsee a little bit more movement
of that.
So that was kind of aninteresting perspective.
I think we're going to see a lotmore with AI.
I think that's going tocontinue to be a hot topic for
(18:41):
2025.
I mean, last year you saw, atall of the conferences there
were sessions on AI.
I think we're still going tosee that.
I don't think AI is going toreplace the human capital, but I
think we're going to definitelybe using it to become more
efficient.
I mean, we even use it here tohelp us with things right, and
we use it in our day-to-daylives without even realizing
(19:02):
we're using it.
We're using it on our mapsoftware.
We're talking to Siri all thetime, or Alexa, right that's all
AI right, so I think we'restill.
We're going to see a lot of thatas well.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Does that?
Does that scare you at all?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
No, not at all.
I actually I find AI to beincredibly intriguing and I
actually love using it to helpme, whether it's to write
something, to research things,you know.
I find it to be like for me tosit down and maybe like maybe
I'm working on a response to anemail, right, something that
(19:37):
might have taken me severalhours to like think through and
talk through.
I can just put some bulletpoints together and say to AI
hey, can you put this emailtogether for me?
And it pulls it together andafter a while AI gets pretty
smart and it starts to get yourvoice yeah, you know yeah so I I
think it can help make us moreefficient.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Of course, I think we need to be careful yeah right
yeah, I, I almost feel like, um,I almost feel like what
assembly line workers felt likein the mid 80s, late 80s, when
robots started doing you knowthe, the people that you know
ford or chevy that were.
You know the people at you knowFord or Chevy that were, you
know putting the, and I knowthat you know to some extent
there's, there's still thathuman touch, but most of it's
(20:16):
done by robotics.
Now and from a, I guess, awhite collar position, I always
felt like, well, that you knowthey're always going to need my
brain to write emails or come upwith creative copy or you know,
have that and I'm almost I liketo use it, but a lot of the
times I'll look at I'll be likeI don't like the fact that AI
(20:37):
can just churn out an email forme.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I know there is that feeling that you still want to
use your brain, right, you don'twant your brain to turn to mush
.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, I think you have to just be careful.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah right, you got to use it the right way.
Yeah, for sure.
So to wrap things up, what areyou most proud of?
What happened that makes you golike, yeah, you know what?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
2024 was okay.
You know I'm proud of ourculture here at Reemployability
our people, we care about thehuman being.
The human connection is a bigthing and we are a human
connection company and thatinteraction we have with the
injured workers, our employees,really take that seriously and
we have developed relationships,whether it's with them or the
(21:21):
nonprofit partners that we dobusiness with, our clients.
That human connection is reallyimportant and I think in this
past year we really emphasizedthat with some of the
professional developmentprograms we've offered to our
employees and some of the waysthat we've helped encourage that
human interaction within ouroffice.
I mean as you know we're prettymuch an in-office company which,
(21:42):
by the way, 2025 will be thetrend of coming back to office,
and we're already seeing a lotof that in the news and
companies are already saying,hey, people have to be back
three, four days a week.
We were kind of ahead of thatcurve.
Because I've always felt thatway and because we are what I
call a human connection company,we've always had our people
in-house and I think itdefinitely has made a
(22:04):
significant difference in how weinteract not just with each
other, but with our clients andour external partners.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
So that's probably what I'm most proud of.
We got top places to work againthis year and we're hoping to
get it again next year.
Those things are reallyimportant to me.
I've always wanted to create anenvironment for our employees
that was better than anyenvironment I've worked in, and
so it's always striving to be alittle bit better.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah.
And just like anything elseit's two steps forward,
sometimes a half step back, thenthree steps forward, but that's
okay.
That's growth, right?
I think one of the mostprofound graphs I ever saw.
I always thought growth was adirect line up, and it's not.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
It's up, down, up down, but definitely overall
re-employability trend upwards.
No doubt You've been on ourmanagement team.
We've experienced it right.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Where we've had these dips.
Of course, we have to reelthings in.
You know, we, like any othercompany, struggle with growth,
exponential growth, you know,and I do think this was the year
we harnessed it.
This was the year that wereally, you know, were able to
hone in and get back toproviding the really, really
(23:15):
solid service that we were knownfor in the industry, and I'm
really proud of that.
That's a big thing this year.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And that's why I brought that up, because anybody
listening that might be in asituation where they feel, you
know, like they're not achievingwhat they want to be achieving,
understand that it's not adirect line-up.
It's always a step up.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Like, I feel like and you heard me probably say this
at the company meeting last weekit's taken this whole year for
us to really like, see and feelthe difference of all the things
that we put in place, you know,over the course of the
beginning of the year till now.
So it's all kind of come tofruition.
So it's patience andpersistence and fortitude.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
There you go, there you go.
That's 2025, right, deb?
Is there anything else you wantto add that maybe I left out?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
No, I don't think so.
I'm looking forward to 2025.
I think there's going to besome good things on the horizon
next year and I'm excited forwhat's in store.
Thank you, Thank you In 2025,.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I wish you a fantastic January, a dazzling
February, a peaceful March, ananxiety-free April, a
sensational May and joy thatlasts from June to November,
followed by a joyful December.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Well, that's it.
2024 is complete as far as REAAudio is concerned.
We're going to take a bit of abreak and come back with our
fourth season in March.
Next year will be a year ofdeep dives into the work comp
world, where we'll talk toexperts, influencers and
policymakers to provide you withtools to be more informed and
successful at what you do.
Have a super happy holiday anda blessed new year.
(24:43):
Thanks for listening to REAAudio.
Please make sure to follow uson Spotify or Apple Podcasts or
Stitcher or wherever you getyour podcasts.
We appreciate you.
Have a great rest of your week.
We'll see you next time.
perspective.
Perspective is spelled p e r sp e c t I v e perspective the 30
000 foot view perspective puton someone else's shoes.
Perspective can also refer tothe state of existing in space
(00:20):
or one's view of the world.
Perspective REA Audio.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Reemployability.
So how was your 2024?
Did you get everything donethat you wanted to?
Did it meet your expectationsand did you stick to your new
year's resolution?
Well, it seems like the yearsgo by faster and faster and,
before you know it, it's time towrap up the past and plan for
the future.
We had an exciting year on REAAudio, diving into historical
(00:50):
topics, personal stories ofovercoming adversity and
exploring life hacks to make youbetter at business and at home.
So, to put a bow on 2024, weinvited Deb Livingston, founder
and CEO of Reemployability, totalk about trends that came up
this past year in business andwork comp.
She also shares what she seesin her crystal ball for 2025.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
More than 40 percent of Americans make New Year's
resolutions every year, but only8 percent of us keep them.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Deb, thank you.
I love wrapping up the yearwith you on REA Audio and what's
really fun is, you know, kindof looking back and look back in
the last years and see wherekind of the predictions were and
everything.
But so, all in all for 2024,like in the workers comp world,
is it what you thought it wasgoing to be?
What happened in 2024?
That kind of stood out to you.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Yeah, I think it was.
I think you know we hadexpected that economic growth
would slow and because you knowinflation and high interest
rates and the job market wasgoing to be challenging, and I
think those things are all true.
You know interest rates arestarting to decline now and
inflation remains persistent.
So those things all impactworkers' compensation and I
(02:01):
think there were predictionslast year about how medical and
wage inflation would impactpremiums and workers'
compensation, and I think therewere predictions last year about
how medical and wage inflationwould impact premiums and
workers' compensation and Ithink those are similar things
that are going to continue into2025.
I think we did see that come tofruition and we'll continue to
see that in 2025.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well, from the perspective of somebody that
maybe not is familiar withworkers' compensation, just very
, very basic.
So when?
If, for example, there is aneconomic downturn.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
How does that directly impact the workers'
compensation world?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, so I'll answer that kind of on the flip side
right.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
So when we are in a more business-friendly
environment, like what we areanticipating for 2025, we
definitely see more jobs.
And when there are more jobsand people working, then people
of course, get injured, which wedon't like to see, but that
happens and that's really whatfuels part of our workers'
confidence industry, especiallyas a service provider right.
(02:58):
All of us service providersrely on the health of the
economy for us to continue togrow and bloom, right.
And then I actually read anarticle recently about 2025 that
we actually might see moresupply chain moves into the
United States from othercountries and if that happens,
that's going to mean an increasein manufacturing jobs here.
(03:19):
And as more workers join theworkforce, we see an increase in
frequency rates for claims.
So that is what keeps ourworkers' compensation industry,
I would say, chugging along andmoving and maybe healthy.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And when you say healthy.
So if we look at, I always tryto equate what we do to car
insurance because I think mostpeople can kind of understand
right the way that works.
So if we're looking at morejobs into this country, more
manufacturing jobs, more ofthose types of jobs that may
cause more claims because ofinjuries, right, how does that
(03:55):
impact rates for all companiesacross the board?
Does that increase rates ifthere's more people getting
injured or does it decreaserates because there's more
people in the economy, or doesit decrease rates because
there's more people in theeconomy that are getting
workers' compensation insurance?
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah, so there's a couple of things there.
So I talked a little bit aboutmedical inflation and wage
inflation.
Those things will causepremiums to increase Because, as
you know, workers' compensationis based on payroll dollars.
A lot of it is based on payrolldollars.
So because of that, if wagesincrease, then automatically
(04:31):
payroll your premiums are goingto increase as a result of those
wages increasing right, andthen with medical inflation,
companies are going to belooking at those dollars that
are being spent right, so that'salso going to impact the
premiums as well.
But as we have more workers inthe economy, those cost
containment strategies becomethat much more important.
And with wage inflation andmedical inflation it becomes
(04:52):
more important to control costs.
And so, because of that, all ofthose of us in the industry
that are in the service providerindustry, where we work part of
the industry, where we actuallyprovide a cost containment
service, those services becomemore important.
So, like a good return to workprogram would be really
important to helping to containcosts, reduce medical, reduce
litigation, those kinds ofthings.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Right exactly?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Were there any surprises that popped out at you
this year, in 2024, in theworkers' comp world?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I don't think so, not really.
I think one of the things I'mreally enjoying seeing is, you
know, there's been a shortage oftalent in our industry and I've
seen the pop up of morementorship programs, like we
have the Rise ProfessionalsGroup and we saw data emerge as
well.
So these are two really strongnow mentorship programs and I'm
seeing a lot of people go intothose programs.
(05:43):
That's been really nice to seeto attract more people into our
industry.
I think that we'll continue tosee talent acquisition be a
challenge, and so the more wesee companies investing in those
mentorship type programs, thebetter it's going to be for the
industry as a whole.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Every time I talk to somebody new, whether it's a
client, a risk manager, someonewith a TPA or a carrier I always
ask them how did you getinvolved?
And I've never, ever metanybody who was like well, I
graduated from X and X schooland I decided to get into
workers' compensation Likenobody.
Everybody kind of falls into it.
(06:19):
It would be kind of nice to seemore aggressive recruitment by
particular organizations rightout of school into this industry
.
I mean, I know WorkConc Collegeis a great resource that we
have that here atReemployability.
A number of us have been ableto take advantage of an
associate's course.
I've got three more to go.
I just finished the riskmanager one yesterday and it was
(06:43):
great because it was aconversation.
I just finished the riskmanager one yesterday and it was
great because it was aconversation.
It was an interview and had arisk manager from California
talk about what that role is andit was really interesting to me
because those are our mainfocus from a client perspective
on the sales end to reallyunderstand what they did on a
daily basis.
It's an exciting industry.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
It really is, and there's so much opportunity in
so many different areas.
Right, it's not just handlingclaims.
Right, there's an area forfinance and accounting and
underwriting and social media,and I mean you name it.
there's a position for it youknow, in the insurance industry
and I would say that I think asa whole the industry has done a
better job of recruiting.
I've seen really great programscome out of Gallagher Bassett
(07:23):
and Summit Insurance as well.
They both have what I'mfamiliar with are some type of
internship programs for collegestudents, and I think that's
attracting new people into ourindustry.
Out there that have more, youknow, programs that are more of
a coordinated, I guess you'd sayright where they actually do
(07:49):
recruiting, that we just don'tknow about.
Yeah living in those circles.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Well, I'm going to meet somebody next year, I'm
sure that said, I got recruitedright out of school to work here
.
Yeah, that would be, that wouldbe great.
Yeah, because I'm very gladthat I kind of fell into this
industry and that was, you know,the conversation that they had
on that course that I that Ijust took.
You know the risk manager wastalking about, depending on who
she reports to, is reallydependent upon the focus, right?
Is it finances at HR, and thoseare two very different roles
(08:15):
that she has to walk into.
And and there's a there's a,there's a creativity that comes
along with being able to develop, to develop solutions that she
has to do, which I love thatpart of it as well.
So that was really, really goodto see.
So now you started as a adjusterback in the day and I know
things have changed since then.
When you came into thisindustry, were you surprised by
(08:40):
anything?
Obviously, you're still here,so you're pleasantly surprised
in kind of how it worked.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat history that you had in
becoming an adjuster and workingyour way up in the industry,
because I have a follow upquestion to that.
But I want to kind of set the,set the foundation first.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
So I, as you know, I'm one of those people that
also fell into the industry.
Right, I, out of college, Iactually worked in retail and
got tired of the nine to five,not nine to five.
I got tired of the hours andthe weekend Beyond nine to five.
I wanted a nine to five officejob so badly, like anything to
get out of, like standing on thefloor at the Gap or 12 hour
(09:15):
days, right.
So so I kind of just stumbledinto the industry.
Edmont Insurance was lookingfor claims adjusters and I was
fortunate enough to be a part ofone of their their claims
training programs.
So that's how I got into it.
Definitely, claims has changed.
I can't even begin to scratchthe surface on all those changes
because I haven't been so farremoved from it for so long.
(09:37):
But I know with theintroduction of AI, there's got
to be some things, someefficiencies that have been
brought into their role.
It's a very administrative role, so I would imagine that many
companies have done put thingsin place to help with that
administrative function.
I don't think we'll ever getaway from the human touch.
I think that that was one of thethings I always loved about
(09:57):
being an adjuster is thecommunication I had with injured
workers.
Obviously, one of the bigthings that changed back then
was we met with injured workersface to face.
That stopped existing a longtime ago I don't even remember
how far back, but I think thatwas kind of nice to be able to
sit across the table with aninjured worker and really get to
know them, and so I think thatwe are putting more of an
(10:20):
emphasis on that worker and therecovery of that worker and
building a relationship with theworker.
And you saw that probablythrough the work comp college
courses that you took.
There's a lot about thepsychological behaviors of an
injured worker and emotionalintelligence and all of that
that goes into play.
So I think there's that more ofan emphasis on that care for
(10:41):
the person versus thetransaction and I think that's
seeing the industry move thatway has really been great, yeah,
and I'm sure's being theindustry move that way has
really been great.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Yeah, and I'm sure there was much more of an
emphasis on that when you weredoing adjusting right.
How long were you in that rolefor?
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I was an adjuster maybe a total of about three or
four years.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Okay, so long enough to be in a situation where you
understood trends year afteryear.
So that kind of leads me to myquestion.
So if I'm an adjuster listeningnow again understanding that
technologies are different,processes are different, but the
foundation and the core isreally the same what were you
doing now, this time of year, toprepare for next year or to
(11:20):
wind things up for this year?
Is there any words of wisdomyou could give to someone?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I mean.
What I recall about this timein Europe is it was a heavy
settlement time of year, likethe holidays were always a time
when injured workers werelooking for ways to resolve
their claims, to kind of moveinto next year with it being
behind them and moving forward.
So I think I would imaginethat's not really changed much
over the years.
But that's what I specificallyremember about the holidays a
(11:46):
lot of negotiations ofsettlements and resolving cases,
and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
It is a good thing Right For you as the adjuster
perspective right kind of startwith a fresh slate next year as
much as you possibly can?
Absolutely yeah, for sure.
So this year inre-employability was we all
faced some adversity, not onlyhere at work but outside right,
and we're based in Florida,tampa, florida and we got hit
(12:12):
with two back-to-back hurricanesand I know you were
specifically impacted.
Talk a little bit about theadversity and how you overcame
what you had to overcome if youdon't mind you.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
you mean through the storms.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Yeah, through the storms and how it related
personally into the office andhow you.
What were some of the thingsthat you drew from to help you
get?
Speaker 3 (12:32):
through that.
Yeah well, first of all,anytime you go through an
experience like that, you justnever know how you're going to
handle it right.
I'm very fortunate that we havesuch an incredible team of
people here at-employabilitythat so much was taken care of
from the standpoint of theoffice.
But I mean, probably whatpeople don't really realize is
when you have a business thatyou run and you have a hundred
lives that you're taking care of, everybody has a need, right,
(12:55):
Everybody's concerned.
They're scared.
One of the things we did was toimmediately send people home to
take care of their families, towork remote as they could, and,
and I think that kind of helpedto alleviate everybody's
concerns about how am I going toget my household ready and
those kind of things.
But we, you know, atreemployability we have to touch
so many lives.
(13:16):
So we have injured workers atlocations throughout the state
of Florida, we have clientsthroughout the state of Florida,
we have nonprofit partnersthroughout the state of Florida
with all of those people andmaking sure that they know that
they're taken care of.
We're taking care of them andour clients are taking care of
those injured workers that areparticipating in those areas
where a hurricane might behitting.
(13:36):
So there's a lot ofcommunication and coordination
that goes with all of that andwe really can never completely
shut down because of that,because we need to be available
to those injured workers if theyneed us For me, as you know,
those injured workers if theyneed us For me, as you know, my
house got four feet of water init and so dealing with that
(14:02):
devastation and all of theemotion that goes with losing
pretty much your entirehousehold was pretty rough.
But what was the shining lightout of all of that is the team
here just took care ofeverything that they needed to
take care of so that I couldtake care of what I had to
pretty much at home.
So, and I actually, in all thatwe went through, still feel so
blessed because so many peoplehad it so much worse than I have
had, you know, through thatwhole ordeal.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
It's funny that you said my very.
I didn't give you this questionjust so everybody knows that
right.
So in my notes here I puthurricanes, adversity.
Sometimes we don't know howwe're going to handle things
until they actually happen.
And I'm so glad that you saidthat, because that's really why
I wanted to bring that up.
And when you plan for things,people have to understand that
it doesn't what Mike Tyson Ithink he said everybody makes a
(14:50):
plan until they get punched inthe face, right, and that's
exactly what happened, right Forsure.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Yeah, and we're still dealing with the aftermath of
everything from home and.
Milton, because the city that welive in, the permitting process
has been horrendous and so westill can't rebuild.
It's just this whole clog, clogthat we're in, you know, and
we've heard the same from somany others.
So it really does give youperspective on um what other
(15:18):
people have gone through duringhurricanes and you see this
devastation on the news, but youdon't really know firsthand
until you go through it yourselfyeah, yeah, till you actually
walk down the street and seethere's, there's my house, right
, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So are there things that you did that you feel like?
From your past experiences youknow, either as a business owner
or personally, that that helpedyou to get through that time,
that time period?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I think that OK.
So you know, we've been inbusiness 20 years.
Actually, we just went into our21st year of business.
And so going through what we'vebeen through in business for 20
years and I think probably themost challenging time was COVID,
right?
So I would say yes, I meangoing through something like a
COVID where the whole worldbasically shut down overnight
(16:06):
and we had to completely pivotthe way we did business so that
we can continue to be inbusiness, it does help you for a
disaster.
You learn a lot through thoseexperiences.
You learn about endurance, youlearn about how you need to just
shift and sometimes you have togo with the flow.
You know, sometimes you justgot to pull yourself up from
your bootstraps and just forgeforward.
(16:27):
You know, flight fright orfreeze?
Yeah, flight or freeze.
So I'm not a freeze person, I'mdefinitely a flight person.
I just kind of run through, andso that's kind of been a good
thing for me.
I don't stay still during acrisis, right.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
So we're running into a new year 2025, right, and not
necessarily from a workers'comp perspective or even an
insurance perspective, but ifyou can just put your business
owner glasses on right, there'sa lot of changes coming up in
next year.
I think and you know, notnecessarily even to get
political, but I think it'spretty obvious there's a lot of
(17:11):
changes coming up in our economyfor next year and one of the
things I learned was that youlearn about how the economy is
going by talking to otherbusiness owners across the
country, not by listening orwatching TV.
Right, the news isn'tnecessarily going to give you
what's actually happening bootson the ground.
What are you seeing boots onthe ground as a business owner
(17:32):
here in Florida, and how do youthink that translates into the
rest of the country?
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I think that the elimination of some regulation
for business is going to helpbusiness, especially small
business, and I would considerus still relatively small.
I think that helps peoplecreate businesses and jobs.
I was listening to a podcastrecently and it was a capital
(17:58):
investment firm and he wastalking about how they weren't
really looking at a lot ofinvestments over the last four
years, doing big investments andour industry and where comp is.
There's been a lot of.
There's a lot of acquisitionsand sales and movement of
companies in our industry and Ithink we might see that
happening again because I think,as as regulations start to lift
(18:18):
and the economy gets a littlebit stronger and the business
environment improves, I thinkwe'll start to see a little bit
more of that happening.
You know more money flowinginto companies and maybe we'll
see a little bit more of thathappening more money flowing
into companies and maybe we'llsee a little bit more movement
of that.
So that was kind of aninteresting perspective.
I think we're going to see a lotmore with AI.
I think that's going tocontinue to be a hot topic for
(18:41):
2025.
I mean, last year you saw, atall of the conferences there
were sessions on AI.
I think we're still going tosee that.
I don't think AI is going toreplace the human capital, but I
think we're going to definitelybe using it to become more
efficient.
I mean, we even use it here tohelp us with things right, and
we use it in our day-to-daylives without even realizing
(19:02):
we're using it.
We're using it on our mapsoftware.
We're talking to Siri all thetime, or Alexa, right that's all
AI right, so I think we'restill.
We're going to see a lot of thatas well.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Does that?
Does that scare you at all?
Speaker 3 (19:15):
No, not at all.
I actually I find AI to beincredibly intriguing and I
actually love using it to helpme, whether it's to write
something, to research things,you know.
I find it to be like for me tosit down and maybe like maybe
I'm working on a response to anemail, right, something that
(19:37):
might have taken me severalhours to like think through and
talk through.
I can just put some bulletpoints together and say to AI
hey, can you put this emailtogether for me?
And it pulls it together andafter a while AI gets pretty
smart and it starts to get yourvoice yeah, you know yeah so I I
think it can help make us moreefficient.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Of course, I think we need to be careful yeah right
yeah, I, I almost feel like, um,I almost feel like what
assembly line workers felt likein the mid 80s, late 80s, when
robots started doing you knowthe, the people that you know
ford or chevy that were.
You know the people at you knowFord or Chevy that were, you
know putting the, and I knowthat you know to some extent
there's, there's still thathuman touch, but most of it's
(20:16):
done by robotics.
Now and from a, I guess, awhite collar position, I always
felt like, well, that you knowthey're always going to need my
brain to write emails or come upwith creative copy or you know,
have that and I'm almost I liketo use it, but a lot of the
times I'll look at I'll be likeI don't like the fact that AI
(20:37):
can just churn out an email forme.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
I know there is that feeling that you still want to
use your brain, right, you don'twant your brain to turn to mush
.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
Yeah, I think you have to just be careful.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah right, you got to use it the right way.
Yeah, for sure.
So to wrap things up, what areyou most proud of?
What happened that makes you golike, yeah, you know what?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
2024 was okay.
You know I'm proud of ourculture here at Reemployability
our people, we care about thehuman being.
The human connection is a bigthing and we are a human
connection company and thatinteraction we have with the
injured workers, our employees,really take that seriously and
we have developed relationships,whether it's with them or the
(21:21):
nonprofit partners that we dobusiness with, our clients.
That human connection is reallyimportant and I think in this
past year we really emphasizedthat with some of the
professional developmentprograms we've offered to our
employees and some of the waysthat we've helped encourage that
human interaction within ouroffice.
I mean as you know we're prettymuch an in-office company which,
(21:42):
by the way, 2025 will be thetrend of coming back to office,
and we're already seeing a lotof that in the news and
companies are already saying,hey, people have to be back
three, four days a week.
We were kind of ahead of thatcurve.
Because I've always felt thatway and because we are what I
call a human connection company,we've always had our people
in-house and I think itdefinitely has made a
(22:04):
significant difference in how weinteract not just with each
other, but with our clients andour external partners.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
So that's probably what I'm most proud of.
We got top places to work againthis year and we're hoping to
get it again next year.
Those things are reallyimportant to me.
I've always wanted to create anenvironment for our employees
that was better than anyenvironment I've worked in, and
so it's always striving to be alittle bit better.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Yeah.
And just like anything elseit's two steps forward,
sometimes a half step back, thenthree steps forward, but that's
okay.
That's growth, right?
I think one of the mostprofound graphs I ever saw.
I always thought growth was adirect line up, and it's not.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
It's up, down, up down, but definitely overall
re-employability trend upwards.
No doubt You've been on ourmanagement team.
We've experienced it right.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Where we've had these dips.
Of course, we have to reelthings in.
You know, we, like any othercompany, struggle with growth,
exponential growth, you know,and I do think this was the year
we harnessed it.
This was the year that wereally, you know, were able to
hone in and get back toproviding the really, really
(23:15):
solid service that we were knownfor in the industry, and I'm
really proud of that.
That's a big thing this year.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
And that's why I brought that up, because anybody
listening that might be in asituation where they feel, you
know, like they're not achievingwhat they want to be achieving,
understand that it's not adirect line-up.
It's always a step up.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Like, I feel like and you heard me probably say this
at the company meeting last weekit's taken this whole year for
us to really like, see and feelthe difference of all the things
that we put in place, you know,over the course of the
beginning of the year till now.
So it's all kind of come tofruition.
So it's patience andpersistence and fortitude.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
There you go, there you go.
That's 2025, right, deb?
Is there anything else you wantto add that maybe I left out?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
No, I don't think so.
I'm looking forward to 2025.
I think there's going to besome good things on the horizon
next year and I'm excited forwhat's in store.
Thank you, Thank you In 2025,.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I wish you a fantastic January, a dazzling
February, a peaceful March, ananxiety-free April, a
sensational May and joy thatlasts from June to November,
followed by a joyful December.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Well, that's it.
2024 is complete as far as REAAudio is concerned.
We're going to take a bit of abreak and come back with our
fourth season in March.
Next year will be a year ofdeep dives into the work comp
world, where we'll talk toexperts, influencers and
policymakers to provide you withtools to be more informed and
successful at what you do.
Have a super happy holiday anda blessed new year.
(24:43):
Thanks for listening to REAAudio.
Please make sure to follow uson Spotify or Apple Podcasts or
Stitcher or wherever you getyour podcasts.
We appreciate you.
Have a great rest of your week.
We'll see you next time.
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