March 20, 2025 • 30 mins
Welcome to Season 5 of ReAudio!
When a workplace injury happens, employees are thrown into a system they rarely understand. Dr. Claire Muselman, COO at workerscompensation.com, breaks down the realities of workers’ comp—what it is, what it isn’t, and why expectations often don’t align.
She shares her own experience with workplace injuries, explains why the first 48 hours are critical for recovery, and discusses how delays and miscommunication can impact both physical and emotional healing.
Tune in to learn how organizations can better support injured workers and create a more effective, people-centered claims process.
Visit workerscompensation.com, sign up for their newsletter, or connect with our guest on LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:02):
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Whoa, that's a focus,communication, regulation and
(00:26):
direction.
Rea Audio.
Dr Claire Musselman.
Thank you again.
I mean, you're such a goodfriend of re-employability and
such a good friend of REA Audio.
You may have been one of thefirst guests that we had on like
three or four years ago when westarted this and we so
appreciate your always sayingyes to hop on and, in a lot of
instances, kind of kick off theyear for us because insights are
(00:46):
so helpful to really help, Ithink, recenter, everybody as we
go into a new year.
So obviously you decided not toretire in 2025.
You're super, super busy, ofcourse.
I noticed you're the COO atworkerscompensationcom,
assistant professor of practiceand co-director of Master of
(01:06):
Science and Leadership Programat Drake University, ambassador
to the Alliance of Women inWorkers' Compensation and you
also work with Kids, chance ofIowa, work Complets and the
Claim and Litigation ManagementAlliance.
Holy cow, dr Clare, yeah, how'dyou get to all that stuff?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh, it's fun.
Everything's in alignment.
Everything goes into alignmentwith personal values and
professional mission, that's forsure.
But so Drake has been amazing.
I became a full-time facultymember there in 2023 and became
a trying to think about how tobest put this.
(01:46):
We designed a brand new Masterof Science in Leadership program
from scratch, which, let metell you, if we thought our jobs
were hard, try and go getaccredited and go through those
processes of designing everyclass, every possible structure
that could go into something,and then go get it approved like
17 times.
So very cool, very fun.
(02:07):
It's kind of like anencompassing of everything I
have done thus far in my careerDuring that time period of
becoming a professor like a fullprofessor, full-time professor.
I'm a professor of practice, sowe stay in industry, which is
where my COO role ofworkerscompensationcom comes in.
I've been writing back whenworkerscompensationcom was run
(02:30):
with a different regime.
I've been writing there sincelike 2019.
I'm still writing for them.
I write for Frank Ferrari he isthe head of the media
department there but I get to beall the off stuff, kind of
behind the scenes of all of theamazing stuff that those great
people make sure that the worldis aware of what is going on in
workers' compensation.
And this is our 25th anniversaryand so we have taken a
(02:53):
different lens of kind of whatit is.
So workerscompensationcom isn'tjust a media site that everyone
thinks that this is wherearticles get published, but
they're actually a compliancetech side that actually helps
claims professionals and peoplewho might not be super
well-versed in workers'compensation.
It's kind of like theencyclopedia of work comp.
And so this year we have added acouple of different components.
(03:13):
We're really like breaking downthe basics for employers who
might not have any idea aboutworkers' compensation, and then
we are also running an emotionseries that will turn into a
book for people who have beeninjured, understanding and
validating their emotionalexperience, and then also having
the how-to guides forsupervisors, for leaders and
supportive partners along theprocess.
(03:35):
So we're trying to really buildout more of it being
people-oriented.
Like you and I've been talkingabout forever where we've done
so much focus on the complianceside.
Now it's time to do more on thepeople side.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I love bringing in the injured worker into this
whole thing as well.
I think it's impossible not tolook at them as a human being
when you incorporate them intothis process, especially on
workerscompensationcom.
My wife is a teacher.
She fell off a stool severalyears ago at school so she was
fine.
She hit her head, thankgoodness.
(04:08):
But obviously that was aworkers' compensation claim and
who would have thought, as aclassroom teacher, you'd have to
go through that process?
And I'm so grateful that I wasin this industry because I was
able to just kind of explain toher like who is this person
calling and what is this companythat she's calling from and why
are they calling and callingand what is this company that
(04:29):
she's calling from and why arethey calling.
And there was no explanationand it's nobody's fault, it's
just you know kind of what wewere a little bit talking about
before we started recording.
Like we, we live this on adaily basis.
People that get injured do not,and so it would like be somebody
throwing me into a backhoe andsay, okay, dig a ditch right.
I would have no idea the firstthing to do.
And it's the same thing for forpeople trying to manage the
workers compensation world whenthey're injured.
(04:50):
So it's so nice that you guysare bringing that in and I like
the foundational stuff and thatkind of comes to those articles
that you had written at thebeginning of January of this
year with regards to managingred flags and high risk claims,
as well as the communicationaspect with claims adjusters,
and they were written back toback.
(05:12):
I kind of wanted to talk to himin reverse order, though it
seems like kind of the managinghigh risk really leads into the
better communication aspect, Didyou so?
You mentioned all the differentkind of audiences with
workerscompensationcom.
Now did you write thosearticles with different
audiences in mind or were theygenerally for anybody that's
(05:33):
interested in leaning in andlearning more?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So a lot of the writing I do is very general,
generalized, generally based.
There are a couple of ones, sothese are part of a roadmap
series is what we developed.
We had enough employers that Ihave been talking to and working
with just in my captiveenvironment, and we've got the
global insurance acceleratorgoing on here in Des Moines
right now, and there's a lot oftimes that people just don't
(05:56):
know what they don't know, andso I thought that there would be
an element that we could reallybreak it down and simplify the
process, because, to your point,people don't know who's calling
.
They don't know why people arecalling who do you need to have
information ready for?
What information do you need tohave?
And I think this is such anadvantageous group of people to
(06:17):
begin with that it's very hardto navigate if you don't have a
person like you with your wifein your corner, and so we wanted
to break this down and reallysimplify the process of what
happens at what point, and sothese two articles that you're
referencing are pieces of, okay,what happens once the claims
occurred, and so we've broken itout into three different areas
(06:39):
where it's like what to have,what to be ready for before a
claim ever happens, becauseideally that's where we've done
most of our work.
Most organizations don't do that.
We wait until something happens.
It's just kind of human nature,it's our human behavior.
Until there's an issue, wedon't fix something.
So we've got that pre.
Then we have what happens whena claim happens, and a lot of
(07:00):
times we see the employer sidego a little bit more on that.
Well, it's his fault.
Safety should have done this.
Why didn't this happen?
And we go in the fingerpointing instead of the claim
happened.
Who cares?
Now it's trying to get thisperson back to work, back to
life and when we look at it fromthat landscape, all right, if
we just take all of the ick outof the way and just focus on
(07:21):
here's the claim.
What do we need to do for thisperson to get them back to work,
back to life and move on?
let's just put that energy thereinstead of in all the other
kind of bullshit places yeah andthen we've got like the post
claim that is running right now,or okay, so a claims happened,
we've got them back to work.
Now what?
Because just getting them backto work in a modified capacity
(07:44):
isn't necessarily the end of theclaim.
But if you're on the employerside, you're not going to give
very much more thought to it ifthey're back in the workplace so
then what happens?
and then our last series is whathappens if a claim is deemed
non-compensable.
What is your roadmap to that?
Because there is a roadmap.
We just get really bad whenthat one happens.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Right For sure, looking at these two particular
articles and I certainly wouldlove to move Maybe we can talk
about this in another episode aswe do kind of go along this
process because they're all so,so important Looking at like it
looks like.
Obviously, communication is keyin every part of this, but we
(08:27):
can communicate and talk abouttwo totally different things as
an end result, and we could havegreat communication but we
could be each be talking abouttotally different things right.
So, in the overall perspective,if you look at a claims adjuster
, if you look at a risk manager,if you look at all the people
involved in a claim, how oftendo you see that their end goal
(08:53):
is not necessarily alwaysgetting that injured worker back
to work right, like they havedifferent end goals, can you?
Talk a little bit about thosevarious end goals and maybe some
of your experience on how tobetter focus everybody's goal on
the right thing.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So I think there's a common misconception in workers'
compensation to start out with.
When someone gets injured, ourgoal as an industry is to get
them back to work period.
It isn't about restoring thelivelihood of this individual to
their full functioningcapabilities prior to injury.
The work comp system isliterally to get them back to
(09:28):
work.
So I'll give myself an example.
So I used to run marathons.
I've run seven of them and Ihad a hip injury and a knee
injury that were both deemedworkers' compensation that I
can't run marathons anymore.
I probably could make it theeffort, but my surgeons have
advised against it if I wouldlike to keep my body parts.
So work comp isn't going to tryand restore me back to marathon
(09:53):
status.
What work comp did was makesure I could get back to my
sedentary job duties because,I've always been, you know being
in the work comp space.
On the insurance side, our jobsare seated, sedentary for the
most part.
So when we look at what theintention behind the industry is
, it's to get that person backinto functional work abilities,
(10:14):
not necessarily restore whattheir life was like previously.
And I want to caveat that andstate that blatantly, because
it's a very common misconceptionon the injured worker side.
Like we want to go back to likeI want to go back to running
again.
I mean it was great, I loved it, it was in really good shape,
that was a huge thing for me.
But that's not the way the lawsare designed and so having that
(10:38):
highlighted up front is really,really, really important.
But I don't know anyone thattalks about that at all until
we're at like settlement time.
So I think that's one to justclarify on the front.
On the get-go, I wrote anarticle this past year called
when Are All the InjuredWorkers' Yachts?
Because you know people thinkthat people are out here to game
(10:58):
the system and try and get this.
But work comp gives youindemnity benefits and medical
benefits.
There's no yachts.
But people get really upsetwhen they can't get back to
their pre-life status.
So when we start looking at theend goal of an adjuster,
adjusters want to close theclaims, like our goal as
adjusters is to move theseclaims through their process so
(11:19):
that they get closed, and soideally for that is getting the
injured worker to the bestmedical position that they can
be.
Get them to that maximummedical improvement.
If there's any type ofimpairment that needs to be
issued, get that done, paid andclose the claim.
Risk manager is also probably isgoing to be wanting to see that
claim closed.
(11:42):
Employer representative wantsthat person back in the office
and then once that person's backinto an office or into their
work environment whether it's aconstruction site, it's an
office dynamic, it's on thefloor restaurant, you name it
they're not going to pay as muchattention to the ongoing maybe
physical therapy or getting thatperson to MMI.
So each person has like adifferent benchmark of what
they're looking for, to theongoing maybe physical therapy
or getting that person to MMI.
(12:02):
So each person has like adifferent benchmark of what
they're looking for, because Ieven thought about that as we're
in this third roadmap.
It says post-claim strategies.
Well, the claim is still goingon, but from an employer
standpoint, the claim is done ontheir mind because their person
is back in the office and so,even like us talking about it,
I'm like I probably should haverenamed that something different
(12:24):
, or like post-return to work,and called it something
different, because it is goingto mean different things to
different people that arenavigating this situation and so
having the different end goal,like we've always looked at it
back to work, back to life butas a twofold First we get you
back to work and then we'regoing to try and help you adjust
to what your life is like, andthen the claim closes.
(12:45):
And so that's always been myclaims philosophy, whether I was
on the employer as the riskmanager or I've been managing
the insurance company or runninga claims team.
That's always been ours,because it's not just the return
to work, it's what happens totheir life now and that's, I
think, where we see a bigmisconception between what the
adjuster's goal is versus, likethe employer, risk manager side.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
How involved is an adjuster after that injured
worker goes back to work?
Because my I mean, you blewaway my assumption right there,
thinking about, once we getsomebody back to work if they're
, you know, released to theirfull duty, right, I understand
that if they're in modified duty, there's ongoing process to get
them back to full duty, ifthat's possible.
But once an injured worker isreleased to full duty, what is
(13:32):
the claims adjuster'sresponsibility after that?
Because, essentially right,that claim is closed.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, they give usually okay if there's no any
type of benefits that are goingto be issued long term.
So any type of permanency,because maybe they're not at
their full functioning ability.
About 30 days.
People usually give it about 30days.
Make sure the rest of themedical bills come in and those
get processed.
Maybe there would be astraggler, but outside of that
it's about another 30 days andthen we're going to go ahead and
(13:59):
close your claim file.
What else needs to be filedwith the state and people move
on so that's really so.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Then it's on the employer really to make sure
that that, if there's any,everything continues to go well
psychological, um, mental issuesthat have to be worked through.
If they're, if they fully, youknow, if they've returned to
their regular role and they'reable to complete it right,
because I'm sure sometimes wereturn people to their regular
role and they're able tocomplete it right, because I'm
sure sometimes we return peopleto their regular role and it's
really maybe not quite time todo that or there's a reason why
(14:28):
they're not able to fullyfunction where they should be.
So it's on that risk manager oron that direct manager, that
employee, to keep an eye out forthose types of things, right,
and we're kind of going off thebeaten path of these particular
articles, but I think that'sreally important for people to
understand, especially on theemployer side.
Like you said, it's not overwhen that claim is closed, right
.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
No, and usually this tends to fall to HR then, where
if somebody has an issue butremember, hr wears a lot of hats
of trying to keep anorganization moving forward and
so it's interesting like wecreated this roadmap series so
that people don't fall throughthe cracks and if you have these
one-off claims that you knowwhat to do, okay, so I still
need to follow up with thisperson.
(15:08):
Okay, claim is closed, but onthe employer side, still
checking in every few weeks andjust saying, hey, I just want to
make sure you're still doingokay, can make a huge difference
, because what you don't knowcan and will hurt you.
You don't know can and willhurt you Because if something
does go wrong and you, as theemployer, are not notified about
it or you don't know what'sgoing on, who do you think
they're going to go talk to?
(15:28):
And this is where we try tolook at what goes on from a
legal standpoint, and a lot oftimes we hear my employer
doesn't care about me.
So this is where we're tryingto put the power back into our
scope of control.
Each of us has a scope ofcontrol in this industry and in
this claim system type mentalitythat we can then take our scope
of control to help mitigate therisk that is coming or has
(15:51):
already manifested from theseinjuries.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And we talk about being proactive a lot from all
different aspects of the claimprocess and efficiency comes
into that as well.
Right, by being proactive itmakes the whole process be a
little bit more efficient.
Do you ever run into issueswhere perhaps, like a claims
adjuster or even on the employerside, a risk manager, somebody
(16:17):
wants to be more proactive withan injured worker but, for
whatever reason, higher-ups arekind of stifling that ability to
take that extra step and maybego beyond just checking the box
to make sure that they are doingthe right thing for that
injured worker?
And if you do run into thoseI'm sure you have what are some
ways for those individuals to beable to overcome that
(16:39):
resistance that maybe they'regetting from higher ups?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Sure.
So I think this goes twofold.
So we continue to hear.
You know, the best claim is aclaim that doesn't happen or the
best claim is a closed claim.
As a behavioral scientist atDrake University that is
currently researchingneuroscience and claims, let me
just tell everyone people aregoing to get injured.
It happens.
That's like literally sendingyour toddler outside and hoping
(17:03):
that they don't skin their knee.
We're humans being and thisstuff's going to happen.
So I think when we start to seepeople that want to be more
proactive, the first thing thathigher-ups tend to get nervous
about is what is this going todo for our liability?
Liability and this is again aneducational thing on the
workers' compensation side,because you don't get faults
(17:29):
thrown at you from a legalstandpoint by doing what is in
the best interest of yourinjured human, your injured
employee.
And a lot of times when someonegets injured, they get shipped
off to the island of misfit toys, kind of, and we put them on
this island where they're stillyour employee.
They were good enough for youto hire into your culture to
begin with.
What do you think is happeningnow?
And so, when I've seen thepeople that want to take that
extra step usually the firstpath of resistance is okay.
(17:52):
Well, if we go above and beyondfor this person, what happens
to the next or whatnot?
And I want to reiterate thateach case is so individually
specific that in working with,if you're the risk manager, in
working with those directsupervisors, showing how this
care, compassion, concern, maybegoing a little bit above and
beyond, ends up having a betterROI, not only from a claim
(18:16):
standpoint but also from anorganizational culture
standpoint.
Because what do you think thatinjured worker is going to go
tell all their colleagues ortheir friends?
Because a lot of times we focuson the easy metrics to track
where we're like how many dayshas somebody been off work, how
much have we spent, what hasbeen like the lost time, and we
focus on these metrics.
(18:38):
What we don't track are whathappens to that supervisor when
this person goes out.
And now they have to add ontheir stress of that workload,
of figuring out how toredisperse it.
Or what about the unintendednature of overtime?
Because you're not going tohire somebody to come fill this
person's job if they're onlygoing to be out a couple of
weeks.
So then you've got overtime foremployees, you've got added
(19:00):
duties, you've got added stresson this team that's happening.
So for a risk manager to say,hey, I want to go above and
beyond to help this employee sowe can get them back integrated
with this team that's going todo so much from the employee
morale standpoint and what'sgoing on within that team, like
we don't quantify what's goingon with the supervisor and the
(19:21):
other employees.
But if you start to look atthat dollar for dollar from an
inefficiency and productivitystandpoint, you can't tell me
that's not going to pay foritself but we don't track that.
So we can't specify what kind of.
Roi that's actually delivering.
But, I mean again, we're nothiring people to come fill this
person's job, to train them, ifthey're only going to be out
three, six, eight weeks.
(19:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's difficult Ithink that's the argument you
make.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, you can't, you can't.
There's a lot of things thatare not trackable.
There's a lot of things thatyou know in in every aspect of
business that sometimes we tryto assign some kind of
trackability to.
That's just, it's it, andyou're right, those things
absolutely fall away.
So let's say we're in asituation where we have a claim
and I'm sure you would agreewith me that the majority of
claims move pretty smoothly.
I mean, my wife was.
(20:11):
I mean there was no issues, shewent right back to work.
Thank goodness she was okay.
Right, it was a claim, it washandled, it was settled, done
right, and that's the majoritycorrect 80% of claims we don't
talk about.
We don't talk about it's the redcar theory, the success.
I don't talk about that.
I want to be a red car.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'm going to talk about fraud.
Oh, let's talk about thosepeople.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right.
So now let's look at the onearticle you wrote was about
identifying some red flags.
So we want to try to make 90 to100 percent of them go smoothly
, right, and so there'sdefinitely indicators as a claim
is created that maybe would bean alert to not only an adjuster
but to a employer as well,right?
(20:52):
So kind of morphing these twoarticles together.
Talk a little bit about some ofthose red flags and how does
communication come into playwhen those things are identified
between employer and adjuster?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Sure.
So I think the number one thingto talk about is lag time.
The lag time in reporting, fromthe moment that the injury
happens to when it gets reportedto a supervisor, is crucial,
and then from that employeerepresentative, that supervisor,
HR, whoever it is to the claimsteam is really important.
So we've seen a lot of datarecently, especially in this
(21:26):
past year, about that zero to48-hour window and we've talked
about this in the industryforever.
But now medical professionalsare helping us put our money
where our mouth is on howimportant it is we get people to
the right facilities, the rightspecialists within 48 hours of
the injury.
And so what we see when we startto see these red flags from a
(21:48):
lag time perspective, I look atit twofold.
One, did somebody drop the balland this is like an
organizational culture thing ofnot getting people notified the
way we're supposed to, or is it?
Two, do people just have noidea what the expectations are?
And I say that because when Iwas the chief risk officer of an
industrial services company,the number one phone call I
(22:08):
would get off hours is so-and-sogot injured.
What do we do?
So?
This is where what plan do youhave in place for your people to
know who to contact, and thenwhere's the phone number?
Where is the information thatthey actually need to make sure
that they know what to do?
Again, we don't want to dealwith this until it's actually
happened, but we've got to getpeople moving quickly and when
(22:31):
we start to see a delay, likeTodd, think about it from the
standpoint from your wife.
Your wife falls off the stool,hits her head.
Let's say nobody talks to herfor like the next five days,
because that's what I'm seeingfor lag time right now with a
couple of groups I'm workingwith.
It's like five days.
Can you imagine no one talkingto your wife about this for?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
five days she hit her head yeah.
Like come on, yeah, well, and alot can happen in five days,
right, you know, you could befine that first day and then two
days later start to see stars.
I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So that is an issue.
Some of the times we tend toassimilate lag time with
somebody faking an injury.
But again, did they know wherethey were supposed to go?
Was it at least reported?
And the difference that comeswith a lot of these is people
get fearful of filing claims onthe employer side because
they're worried about what it'sgoing to do to their mod.
(23:26):
You know, every claims programis set up differently, but where
we start to see the sticky getreally icky is where there's
this lag time and the employer'slike, well, maybe I'll just try
and send Joe to the doctor'soffice myself.
And then it starts to becomesomething.
So let's just say it was yourwife, she fell off the stool,
she hit her head and we're like,well, we'll just go ahead and
(23:48):
cover that doctor's appointment.
But let's say it gets bad again.
Two days later she's startingto see stars, she needs an MRI.
And this is where it starts toget bad.
But that's not on the injuredworker, that's on you having a
bad process as an employer.
And this is where we havethrown a lot of heat towards
injured workers saying, well,they didn't tell us, did they?
(24:09):
Or did they not have a rightprocess in place so that they
knew what they were supposed todo.
And this is where we see triagelines being really helpful.
But a lot of times it's fear ofthe unknown.
People don't know what to dobecause we've never had this
happen before.
So you know, all right, shesaid she bumped her head, all
right.
And the supervisor makes a noteon their desk and a week later
the note is still on the desk.
(24:31):
Nobody's been told.
And again, I don't know aboutyou, but if that's my partner,
like, I'm going to be reallyangry and I think about when we
start to put it in terms ofpeople that we care about our
loved ones, our children, ourparents, like you name it.
We would never want that forthem.
So if we take a step back andstart to seek to understand
(24:53):
what's going on, that can make abig difference.
And when we have these delaysin reporting, then if we want to
go talk to witnesses well, Idon't remember what happened a
week ago we're off to a wholedifferent project and we're
trying to go back to witnessessaying, hey, we wanted to get
more information around this andthat doesn't.
It doesn't work like that.
So not only is this timelyreporting so imperative, but it
sets the tone for everythingelse, so that you can get a good
(25:15):
investigation.
Now I also want to caveat thisinto the point where people need
to know what they need to dowhen they get injured and they
need to know what informationthey are supposed to provide.
If we can give that up front topeople like, okay, if you get
injured, this is what, like, youcall MedCorps advisors, you
call MedCorps, you call, like,any of these triage lines, or
maybe Cedric's Nurse Triage,whatever it is, and this is the
(25:38):
information you need to havereadily available, because that
then helps everybody else that'sgoing to go through this
process to help thatinvestigation, help establish
those facts and resolve anydiscrepancies, because we were
prepared to make that initialphone call and if you've got all
this information up front,that's only going to strengthen
the communication with everybodyelse, to align expectations,
(26:00):
because by the time the adjustergets assigned now, she or he
has a good amount of informationthat they need to be able to
move forward, versus havingthese blank spaces where they
have to try and piece togetherinformation and now this
person's at the ER and well, wecould call them then because we
have 24 hours to make our phonecall.
But do you think that they'regoing to be in a headspace that
(26:22):
is able to retain informationwhile cortisol and adrenaline
are pumping through their body?
Probably not.
But, we don't pay attention tothose elements, even though
they're crucial for theunderstanding of what is going
on throughout this process.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, there's so much fear involved on both sides,
right, I mean, as an employee, Imight be fearful to make even
say that I got hurt, right,because I don't know what this
is going to lead to.
I got to keep working, I don'twant to be out of work.
Hey, I'm tough.
I mean, listen, I've hurtmyself before.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
What's a little blood , right, I thought both of mine
that when I was an adult werewhen I was a director of work
comp and the other was a VP ofwork comp.
Let me tell you how stupid Ifelt.
I mean like I need I need toreport a work comp claim and
like witnesses were around forall of them.
I mean it wasn't, but you feellike there's a sense of shame
(27:14):
that comes with it, especiallyeven being through the being
from the system and knowing howit works.
That doesn't change things.
I mean you're still injured andthere's all these emotions that
come with an injury to yourbody, and so I'm very excited
that workerscompensationcom isgoing to unpack all of that and
then help people Like it's okay,here is validation for an
injured worker, here isvalidation for an employer.
(27:36):
This is how you do that, becausea lot of times we feel these
things in a silo and then we'relike is this okay?
Of times, we feel these thingsin a silo and then we're like is
this okay, is it not?
And that impacts the healingprocess because of stress,
anxiety, the differentneurotransmitters, the different
hormones that get released as aresult, and it impacts that
healing process.
And again, so much of thissteers to your point from the
(27:57):
fear of the unknown.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, we have only scratched the surface of I know
what's on workers compensationdot com, especially now with the
kind of the new direction andthe.
I guess the the organization'sgoal now of really embracing all
aspects of the workerscompensation world, including
the injured worker, which isamazing.
(28:19):
So workers compensation dot comis obviously.
Anybody can go there and browsearound.
I believe I got this through anemail, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So if you yeah, tell me, tell everybody if they want
to look intoworkerscompensationcom a little
bit more, what they can findthere and how to proceed.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, you can go to workerscompensationcom.
We do have a weekly newsletterthat kind of recaps what our top
articles have been.
You can follow us on LinkedIn.
There's a newsletter that isreleased every morning and then
we highlight some of thearticles.
It focuses on cases that aregoing around throughout the
United States anything work comprelated that you should know
about.
Sometimes we get the reallycrazy awesome cases, the
(29:04):
one-offs, that are fascinatingand interesting, and other times
it's updates based onjurisdictional law.
You know we just hit a new year, so here comes all of the
regulation updates the maximumand minimums for states, mileage
, you name it, and this is yourone-stop shop for all things
compliance.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Awesome, dr Claire.
I'm so glad that you're therenow and looking forward to
everything that's going to becoming out, and thank you so
much for your time with us.
Will you come back again thisyear?
We should do this likequarterly or something.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I would love that.
It'd be great.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Dr ClaireMusselman.
We appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Thank you, Todd.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Claire Musselman.
We appreciate your time.
Thank you, todd.
Thanks for listening to REAAudio.
I hope we opened up your braina bit and helped you be better
at what you do.
Please follow us on Spotify,apple Podcasts, stitcher, amazon
Music or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
How do you get better at what you do?
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Time management assistance.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
AI.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Webinars Mentors.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Open platforms like Coursera Live and virtual Live
training, live course, livetraining, live course, live
training Live training, livetraining, live training, live
training, live training, livetraining, live training, live
training, live training, livetraining.
Whoa, that's a focus,communication, regulation and
(00:26):
direction.
Rea Audio.
Dr Claire Musselman.
Thank you again.
I mean, you're such a goodfriend of re-employability and
such a good friend of REA Audio.
You may have been one of thefirst guests that we had on like
three or four years ago when westarted this and we so
appreciate your always sayingyes to hop on and, in a lot of
instances, kind of kick off theyear for us because insights are
(00:46):
so helpful to really help, Ithink, recenter, everybody as we
go into a new year.
So obviously you decided not toretire in 2025.
You're super, super busy, ofcourse.
I noticed you're the COO atworkerscompensationcom,
assistant professor of practiceand co-director of Master of
(01:06):
Science and Leadership Programat Drake University, ambassador
to the Alliance of Women inWorkers' Compensation and you
also work with Kids, chance ofIowa, work Complets and the
Claim and Litigation ManagementAlliance.
Holy cow, dr Clare, yeah, how'dyou get to all that stuff?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Oh, it's fun.
Everything's in alignment.
Everything goes into alignmentwith personal values and
professional mission, that's forsure.
But so Drake has been amazing.
I became a full-time facultymember there in 2023 and became
a trying to think about how tobest put this.
(01:46):
We designed a brand new Masterof Science in Leadership program
from scratch, which, let metell you, if we thought our jobs
were hard, try and go getaccredited and go through those
processes of designing everyclass, every possible structure
that could go into something,and then go get it approved like
17 times.
So very cool, very fun.
(02:07):
It's kind of like anencompassing of everything I
have done thus far in my careerDuring that time period of
becoming a professor like a fullprofessor, full-time professor.
I'm a professor of practice, sowe stay in industry, which is
where my COO role ofworkerscompensationcom comes in.
I've been writing back whenworkerscompensationcom was run
(02:30):
with a different regime.
I've been writing there sincelike 2019.
I'm still writing for them.
I write for Frank Ferrari he isthe head of the media
department there but I get to beall the off stuff, kind of
behind the scenes of all of theamazing stuff that those great
people make sure that the worldis aware of what is going on in
workers' compensation.
And this is our 25th anniversaryand so we have taken a
(02:53):
different lens of kind of whatit is.
So workerscompensationcom isn'tjust a media site that everyone
thinks that this is wherearticles get published, but
they're actually a compliancetech side that actually helps
claims professionals and peoplewho might not be super
well-versed in workers'compensation.
It's kind of like theencyclopedia of work comp.
And so this year we have added acouple of different components.
(03:13):
We're really like breaking downthe basics for employers who
might not have any idea aboutworkers' compensation, and then
we are also running an emotionseries that will turn into a
book for people who have beeninjured, understanding and
validating their emotionalexperience, and then also having
the how-to guides forsupervisors, for leaders and
supportive partners along theprocess.
(03:35):
So we're trying to really buildout more of it being
people-oriented.
Like you and I've been talkingabout forever where we've done
so much focus on the complianceside.
Now it's time to do more on thepeople side.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah, I love bringing in the injured worker into this
whole thing as well.
I think it's impossible not tolook at them as a human being
when you incorporate them intothis process, especially on
workerscompensationcom.
My wife is a teacher.
She fell off a stool severalyears ago at school so she was
fine.
She hit her head, thankgoodness.
(04:08):
But obviously that was aworkers' compensation claim and
who would have thought, as aclassroom teacher, you'd have to
go through that process?
And I'm so grateful that I wasin this industry because I was
able to just kind of explain toher like who is this person
calling and what is this companythat she's calling from and why
are they calling and callingand what is this company that
(04:29):
she's calling from and why arethey calling.
And there was no explanationand it's nobody's fault, it's
just you know kind of what wewere a little bit talking about
before we started recording.
Like we, we live this on adaily basis.
People that get injured do not,and so it would like be somebody
throwing me into a backhoe andsay, okay, dig a ditch right.
I would have no idea the firstthing to do.
And it's the same thing for forpeople trying to manage the
workers compensation world whenthey're injured.
(04:50):
So it's so nice that you guysare bringing that in and I like
the foundational stuff and thatkind of comes to those articles
that you had written at thebeginning of January of this
year with regards to managingred flags and high risk claims,
as well as the communicationaspect with claims adjusters,
and they were written back toback.
(05:12):
I kind of wanted to talk to himin reverse order, though it
seems like kind of the managinghigh risk really leads into the
better communication aspect, Didyou so?
You mentioned all the differentkind of audiences with
workerscompensationcom.
Now did you write thosearticles with different
audiences in mind or were theygenerally for anybody that's
(05:33):
interested in leaning in andlearning more?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So a lot of the writing I do is very general,
generalized, generally based.
There are a couple of ones, sothese are part of a roadmap
series is what we developed.
We had enough employers that Ihave been talking to and working
with just in my captiveenvironment, and we've got the
global insurance acceleratorgoing on here in Des Moines
right now, and there's a lot oftimes that people just don't
(05:56):
know what they don't know, andso I thought that there would be
an element that we could reallybreak it down and simplify the
process, because, to your point,people don't know who's calling
.
They don't know why people arecalling who do you need to have
information ready for?
What information do you need tohave?
And I think this is such anadvantageous group of people to
(06:17):
begin with that it's very hardto navigate if you don't have a
person like you with your wifein your corner, and so we wanted
to break this down and reallysimplify the process of what
happens at what point, and sothese two articles that you're
referencing are pieces of, okay,what happens once the claims
occurred, and so we've broken itout into three different areas
(06:39):
where it's like what to have,what to be ready for before a
claim ever happens, becauseideally that's where we've done
most of our work.
Most organizations don't do that.
We wait until something happens.
It's just kind of human nature,it's our human behavior.
Until there's an issue, wedon't fix something.
So we've got that pre.
Then we have what happens whena claim happens, and a lot of
(07:00):
times we see the employer sidego a little bit more on that.
Well, it's his fault.
Safety should have done this.
Why didn't this happen?
And we go in the fingerpointing instead of the claim
happened.
Who cares?
Now it's trying to get thisperson back to work, back to
life and when we look at it fromthat landscape, all right, if
we just take all of the ick outof the way and just focus on
(07:21):
here's the claim.
What do we need to do for thisperson to get them back to work,
back to life and move on?
let's just put that energy thereinstead of in all the other
kind of bullshit places yeah andthen we've got like the post
claim that is running right now,or okay, so a claims happened,
we've got them back to work.
Now what?
Because just getting them backto work in a modified capacity
(07:44):
isn't necessarily the end of theclaim.
But if you're on the employerside, you're not going to give
very much more thought to it ifthey're back in the workplace so
then what happens?
and then our last series is whathappens if a claim is deemed
non-compensable.
What is your roadmap to that?
Because there is a roadmap.
We just get really bad whenthat one happens.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Right For sure, looking at these two particular
articles and I certainly wouldlove to move Maybe we can talk
about this in another episode aswe do kind of go along this
process because they're all so,so important Looking at like it
looks like.
Obviously, communication is keyin every part of this, but we
(08:27):
can communicate and talk abouttwo totally different things as
an end result, and we could havegreat communication but we
could be each be talking abouttotally different things right.
So, in the overall perspective,if you look at a claims adjuster
, if you look at a risk manager,if you look at all the people
involved in a claim, how oftendo you see that their end goal
(08:53):
is not necessarily alwaysgetting that injured worker back
to work right, like they havedifferent end goals, can you?
Talk a little bit about thosevarious end goals and maybe some
of your experience on how tobetter focus everybody's goal on
the right thing.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
So I think there's a common misconception in workers'
compensation to start out with.
When someone gets injured, ourgoal as an industry is to get
them back to work period.
It isn't about restoring thelivelihood of this individual to
their full functioningcapabilities prior to injury.
The work comp system isliterally to get them back to
(09:28):
work.
So I'll give myself an example.
So I used to run marathons.
I've run seven of them and Ihad a hip injury and a knee
injury that were both deemedworkers' compensation that I
can't run marathons anymore.
I probably could make it theeffort, but my surgeons have
advised against it if I wouldlike to keep my body parts.
So work comp isn't going to tryand restore me back to marathon
(09:53):
status.
What work comp did was makesure I could get back to my
sedentary job duties because,I've always been, you know being
in the work comp space.
On the insurance side, our jobsare seated, sedentary for the
most part.
So when we look at what theintention behind the industry is
, it's to get that person backinto functional work abilities,
(10:14):
not necessarily restore whattheir life was like previously.
And I want to caveat that andstate that blatantly, because
it's a very common misconceptionon the injured worker side.
Like we want to go back to likeI want to go back to running
again.
I mean it was great, I loved it, it was in really good shape,
that was a huge thing for me.
But that's not the way the lawsare designed and so having that
(10:38):
highlighted up front is really,really, really important.
But I don't know anyone thattalks about that at all until
we're at like settlement time.
So I think that's one to justclarify on the front.
On the get-go, I wrote anarticle this past year called
when Are All the InjuredWorkers' Yachts?
Because you know people thinkthat people are out here to game
(10:58):
the system and try and get this.
But work comp gives youindemnity benefits and medical
benefits.
There's no yachts.
But people get really upsetwhen they can't get back to
their pre-life status.
So when we start looking at theend goal of an adjuster,
adjusters want to close theclaims, like our goal as
adjusters is to move theseclaims through their process so
(11:19):
that they get closed, and soideally for that is getting the
injured worker to the bestmedical position that they can
be.
Get them to that maximummedical improvement.
If there's any type ofimpairment that needs to be
issued, get that done, paid andclose the claim.
Risk manager is also probably isgoing to be wanting to see that
claim closed.
(11:42):
Employer representative wantsthat person back in the office
and then once that person's backinto an office or into their
work environment whether it's aconstruction site, it's an
office dynamic, it's on thefloor restaurant, you name it
they're not going to pay as muchattention to the ongoing maybe
physical therapy or getting thatperson to MMI.
So each person has like adifferent benchmark of what
they're looking for, to theongoing maybe physical therapy
or getting that person to MMI.
(12:02):
So each person has like adifferent benchmark of what
they're looking for, because Ieven thought about that as we're
in this third roadmap.
It says post-claim strategies.
Well, the claim is still goingon, but from an employer
standpoint, the claim is done ontheir mind because their person
is back in the office and so,even like us talking about it,
I'm like I probably should haverenamed that something different
(12:24):
, or like post-return to work,and called it something
different, because it is goingto mean different things to
different people that arenavigating this situation and so
having the different end goal,like we've always looked at it
back to work, back to life butas a twofold First we get you
back to work and then we'regoing to try and help you adjust
to what your life is like, andthen the claim closes.
(12:45):
And so that's always been myclaims philosophy, whether I was
on the employer as the riskmanager or I've been managing
the insurance company or runninga claims team.
That's always been ours,because it's not just the return
to work, it's what happens totheir life now and that's, I
think, where we see a bigmisconception between what the
adjuster's goal is versus, likethe employer, risk manager side.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
How involved is an adjuster after that injured
worker goes back to work?
Because my I mean, you blewaway my assumption right there,
thinking about, once we getsomebody back to work if they're
, you know, released to theirfull duty, right, I understand
that if they're in modified duty, there's ongoing process to get
them back to full duty, ifthat's possible.
But once an injured worker isreleased to full duty, what is
(13:32):
the claims adjuster'sresponsibility after that?
Because, essentially right,that claim is closed.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, they give usually okay if there's no any
type of benefits that are goingto be issued long term.
So any type of permanency,because maybe they're not at
their full functioning ability.
About 30 days.
People usually give it about 30days.
Make sure the rest of themedical bills come in and those
get processed.
Maybe there would be astraggler, but outside of that
it's about another 30 days andthen we're going to go ahead and
(13:59):
close your claim file.
What else needs to be filedwith the state and people move
on so that's really so.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Then it's on the employer really to make sure
that that, if there's any,everything continues to go well
psychological, um, mental issuesthat have to be worked through.
If they're, if they fully, youknow, if they've returned to
their regular role and they'reable to complete it right,
because I'm sure sometimes wereturn people to their regular
role and they're able tocomplete it right, because I'm
sure sometimes we return peopleto their regular role and it's
really maybe not quite time todo that or there's a reason why
(14:28):
they're not able to fullyfunction where they should be.
So it's on that risk manager oron that direct manager, that
employee, to keep an eye out forthose types of things, right,
and we're kind of going off thebeaten path of these particular
articles, but I think that'sreally important for people to
understand, especially on theemployer side.
Like you said, it's not overwhen that claim is closed, right
.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
No, and usually this tends to fall to HR then, where
if somebody has an issue butremember, hr wears a lot of hats
of trying to keep anorganization moving forward and
so it's interesting like wecreated this roadmap series so
that people don't fall throughthe cracks and if you have these
one-off claims that you knowwhat to do, okay, so I still
need to follow up with thisperson.
(15:08):
Okay, claim is closed, but onthe employer side, still
checking in every few weeks andjust saying, hey, I just want to
make sure you're still doingokay, can make a huge difference
, because what you don't knowcan and will hurt you.
You don't know can and willhurt you Because if something
does go wrong and you, as theemployer, are not notified about
it or you don't know what'sgoing on, who do you think
they're going to go talk to?
(15:28):
And this is where we try tolook at what goes on from a
legal standpoint, and a lot oftimes we hear my employer
doesn't care about me.
So this is where we're tryingto put the power back into our
scope of control.
Each of us has a scope ofcontrol in this industry and in
this claim system type mentalitythat we can then take our scope
of control to help mitigate therisk that is coming or has
(15:51):
already manifested from theseinjuries.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And we talk about being proactive a lot from all
different aspects of the claimprocess and efficiency comes
into that as well.
Right, by being proactive itmakes the whole process be a
little bit more efficient.
Do you ever run into issueswhere perhaps, like a claims
adjuster or even on the employerside, a risk manager, somebody
(16:17):
wants to be more proactive withan injured worker but, for
whatever reason, higher-ups arekind of stifling that ability to
take that extra step and maybego beyond just checking the box
to make sure that they are doingthe right thing for that
injured worker?
And if you do run into thoseI'm sure you have what are some
ways for those individuals to beable to overcome that
(16:39):
resistance that maybe they'regetting from higher ups?
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Sure.
So I think this goes twofold.
So we continue to hear.
You know, the best claim is aclaim that doesn't happen or the
best claim is a closed claim.
As a behavioral scientist atDrake University that is
currently researchingneuroscience and claims, let me
just tell everyone people aregoing to get injured.
It happens.
That's like literally sendingyour toddler outside and hoping
(17:03):
that they don't skin their knee.
We're humans being and thisstuff's going to happen.
So I think when we start to seepeople that want to be more
proactive, the first thing thathigher-ups tend to get nervous
about is what is this going todo for our liability?
Liability and this is again aneducational thing on the
workers' compensation side,because you don't get faults
(17:29):
thrown at you from a legalstandpoint by doing what is in
the best interest of yourinjured human, your injured
employee.
And a lot of times when someonegets injured, they get shipped
off to the island of misfit toys, kind of, and we put them on
this island where they're stillyour employee.
They were good enough for youto hire into your culture to
begin with.
What do you think is happeningnow?
And so, when I've seen thepeople that want to take that
extra step usually the firstpath of resistance is okay.
(17:52):
Well, if we go above and beyondfor this person, what happens
to the next or whatnot?
And I want to reiterate thateach case is so individually
specific that in working with,if you're the risk manager, in
working with those directsupervisors, showing how this
care, compassion, concern, maybegoing a little bit above and
beyond, ends up having a betterROI, not only from a claim
(18:16):
standpoint but also from anorganizational culture
standpoint.
Because what do you think thatinjured worker is going to go
tell all their colleagues ortheir friends?
Because a lot of times we focuson the easy metrics to track
where we're like how many dayshas somebody been off work, how
much have we spent, what hasbeen like the lost time, and we
focus on these metrics.
(18:38):
What we don't track are whathappens to that supervisor when
this person goes out.
And now they have to add ontheir stress of that workload,
of figuring out how toredisperse it.
Or what about the unintendednature of overtime?
Because you're not going tohire somebody to come fill this
person's job if they're onlygoing to be out a couple of
weeks.
So then you've got overtime foremployees, you've got added
(19:00):
duties, you've got added stresson this team that's happening.
So for a risk manager to say,hey, I want to go above and
beyond to help this employee sowe can get them back integrated
with this team that's going todo so much from the employee
morale standpoint and what'sgoing on within that team, like
we don't quantify what's goingon with the supervisor and the
(19:21):
other employees.
But if you start to look atthat dollar for dollar from an
inefficiency and productivitystandpoint, you can't tell me
that's not going to pay foritself but we don't track that.
So we can't specify what kind of.
Roi that's actually delivering.
But, I mean again, we're nothiring people to come fill this
person's job, to train them, ifthey're only going to be out
three, six, eight weeks.
(19:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's difficult Ithink that's the argument you
make.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, you can't, you can't.
There's a lot of things thatare not trackable.
There's a lot of things thatyou know in in every aspect of
business that sometimes we tryto assign some kind of
trackability to.
That's just, it's it, andyou're right, those things
absolutely fall away.
So let's say we're in asituation where we have a claim
and I'm sure you would agreewith me that the majority of
claims move pretty smoothly.
I mean, my wife was.
(20:11):
I mean there was no issues, shewent right back to work.
Thank goodness she was okay.
Right, it was a claim, it washandled, it was settled, done
right, and that's the majoritycorrect 80% of claims we don't
talk about.
We don't talk about it's the redcar theory, the success.
I don't talk about that.
I want to be a red car.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I'm going to talk about fraud.
Oh, let's talk about thosepeople.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right.
So now let's look at the onearticle you wrote was about
identifying some red flags.
So we want to try to make 90 to100 percent of them go smoothly
, right, and so there'sdefinitely indicators as a claim
is created that maybe would bean alert to not only an adjuster
but to a employer as well,right?
(20:52):
So kind of morphing these twoarticles together.
Talk a little bit about some ofthose red flags and how does
communication come into playwhen those things are identified
between employer and adjuster?
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Sure.
So I think the number one thingto talk about is lag time.
The lag time in reporting, fromthe moment that the injury
happens to when it gets reportedto a supervisor, is crucial,
and then from that employeerepresentative, that supervisor,
HR, whoever it is to the claimsteam is really important.
So we've seen a lot of datarecently, especially in this
(21:26):
past year, about that zero to48-hour window and we've talked
about this in the industryforever.
But now medical professionalsare helping us put our money
where our mouth is on howimportant it is we get people to
the right facilities, the rightspecialists within 48 hours of
the injury.
And so what we see when we startto see these red flags from a
(21:48):
lag time perspective, I look atit twofold.
One, did somebody drop the balland this is like an
organizational culture thing ofnot getting people notified the
way we're supposed to, or is it?
Two, do people just have noidea what the expectations are?
And I say that because when Iwas the chief risk officer of an
industrial services company,the number one phone call I
(22:08):
would get off hours is so-and-sogot injured.
What do we do?
So?
This is where what plan do youhave in place for your people to
know who to contact, and thenwhere's the phone number?
Where is the information thatthey actually need to make sure
that they know what to do?
Again, we don't want to dealwith this until it's actually
happened, but we've got to getpeople moving quickly and when
(22:31):
we start to see a delay, likeTodd, think about it from the
standpoint from your wife.
Your wife falls off the stool,hits her head.
Let's say nobody talks to herfor like the next five days,
because that's what I'm seeingfor lag time right now with a
couple of groups I'm workingwith.
It's like five days.
Can you imagine no one talkingto your wife about this for?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
five days she hit her head yeah.
Like come on, yeah, well, and alot can happen in five days,
right, you know, you could befine that first day and then two
days later start to see stars.
I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So that is an issue.
Some of the times we tend toassimilate lag time with
somebody faking an injury.
But again, did they know wherethey were supposed to go?
Was it at least reported?
And the difference that comeswith a lot of these is people
get fearful of filing claims onthe employer side because
they're worried about what it'sgoing to do to their mod.
(23:26):
You know, every claims programis set up differently, but where
we start to see the sticky getreally icky is where there's
this lag time and the employer'slike, well, maybe I'll just try
and send Joe to the doctor'soffice myself.
And then it starts to becomesomething.
So let's just say it was yourwife, she fell off the stool,
she hit her head and we're like,well, we'll just go ahead and
(23:48):
cover that doctor's appointment.
But let's say it gets bad again.
Two days later she's startingto see stars, she needs an MRI.
And this is where it starts toget bad.
But that's not on the injuredworker, that's on you having a
bad process as an employer.
And this is where we havethrown a lot of heat towards
injured workers saying, well,they didn't tell us, did they?
(24:09):
Or did they not have a rightprocess in place so that they
knew what they were supposed todo.
And this is where we see triagelines being really helpful.
But a lot of times it's fear ofthe unknown.
People don't know what to dobecause we've never had this
happen before.
So you know, all right, shesaid she bumped her head, all
right.
And the supervisor makes a noteon their desk and a week later
the note is still on the desk.
(24:31):
Nobody's been told.
And again, I don't know aboutyou, but if that's my partner,
like, I'm going to be reallyangry and I think about when we
start to put it in terms ofpeople that we care about our
loved ones, our children, ourparents, like you name it.
We would never want that forthem.
So if we take a step back andstart to seek to understand
(24:53):
what's going on, that can make abig difference.
And when we have these delaysin reporting, then if we want to
go talk to witnesses well, Idon't remember what happened a
week ago we're off to a wholedifferent project and we're
trying to go back to witnessessaying, hey, we wanted to get
more information around this andthat doesn't.
It doesn't work like that.
So not only is this timelyreporting so imperative, but it
sets the tone for everythingelse, so that you can get a good
(25:15):
investigation.
Now I also want to caveat thisinto the point where people need
to know what they need to dowhen they get injured and they
need to know what informationthey are supposed to provide.
If we can give that up front topeople like, okay, if you get
injured, this is what, like, youcall MedCorps advisors, you
call MedCorps, you call, like,any of these triage lines, or
maybe Cedric's Nurse Triage,whatever it is, and this is the
(25:38):
information you need to havereadily available, because that
then helps everybody else that'sgoing to go through this
process to help thatinvestigation, help establish
those facts and resolve anydiscrepancies, because we were
prepared to make that initialphone call and if you've got all
this information up front,that's only going to strengthen
the communication with everybodyelse, to align expectations,
(26:00):
because by the time the adjustergets assigned now, she or he
has a good amount of informationthat they need to be able to
move forward, versus havingthese blank spaces where they
have to try and piece togetherinformation and now this
person's at the ER and well, wecould call them then because we
have 24 hours to make our phonecall.
But do you think that they'regoing to be in a headspace that
(26:22):
is able to retain informationwhile cortisol and adrenaline
are pumping through their body?
Probably not.
But, we don't pay attention tothose elements, even though
they're crucial for theunderstanding of what is going
on throughout this process.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, there's so much fear involved on both sides,
right, I mean, as an employee, Imight be fearful to make even
say that I got hurt, right,because I don't know what this
is going to lead to.
I got to keep working, I don'twant to be out of work.
Hey, I'm tough.
I mean, listen, I've hurtmyself before.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
What's a little blood , right, I thought both of mine
that when I was an adult werewhen I was a director of work
comp and the other was a VP ofwork comp.
Let me tell you how stupid Ifelt.
I mean like I need I need toreport a work comp claim and
like witnesses were around forall of them.
I mean it wasn't, but you feellike there's a sense of shame
(27:14):
that comes with it, especiallyeven being through the being
from the system and knowing howit works.
That doesn't change things.
I mean you're still injured andthere's all these emotions that
come with an injury to yourbody, and so I'm very excited
that workerscompensationcom isgoing to unpack all of that and
then help people Like it's okay,here is validation for an
injured worker, here isvalidation for an employer.
(27:36):
This is how you do that, becausea lot of times we feel these
things in a silo and then we'relike is this okay?
Of times, we feel these thingsin a silo and then we're like is
this okay, is it not?
And that impacts the healingprocess because of stress,
anxiety, the differentneurotransmitters, the different
hormones that get released as aresult, and it impacts that
healing process.
And again, so much of thissteers to your point from the
(27:57):
fear of the unknown.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, we have only scratched the surface of I know
what's on workers compensationdot com, especially now with the
kind of the new direction andthe.
I guess the the organization'sgoal now of really embracing all
aspects of the workerscompensation world, including
the injured worker, which isamazing.
(28:19):
So workers compensation dot comis obviously.
Anybody can go there and browsearound.
I believe I got this through anemail, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
So if you yeah, tell me, tell everybody if they want
to look intoworkerscompensationcom a little
bit more, what they can findthere and how to proceed.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, you can go to workerscompensationcom.
We do have a weekly newsletterthat kind of recaps what our top
articles have been.
You can follow us on LinkedIn.
There's a newsletter that isreleased every morning and then
we highlight some of thearticles.
It focuses on cases that aregoing around throughout the
United States anything work comprelated that you should know
about.
Sometimes we get the reallycrazy awesome cases, the
(29:04):
one-offs, that are fascinatingand interesting, and other times
it's updates based onjurisdictional law.
You know we just hit a new year, so here comes all of the
regulation updates the maximumand minimums for states, mileage
, you name it, and this is yourone-stop shop for all things
compliance.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Awesome, dr Claire.
I'm so glad that you're therenow and looking forward to
everything that's going to becoming out, and thank you so
much for your time with us.
Will you come back again thisyear?
We should do this likequarterly or something.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, I would love that.
It'd be great.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Dr ClaireMusselman.
We appreciate your time.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Thank you, Todd.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Claire Musselman.
We appreciate your time.
Thank you, todd.
Thanks for listening to REAAudio.
I hope we opened up your braina bit and helped you be better
at what you do.
Please follow us on Spotify,apple Podcasts, stitcher, amazon
Music or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
If you have input orsuggestions, email Todd at
reemployabilitycom.
Be grateful and have afantastic rest of your week.
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