January 15, 2025 • 37 mins
The workplace landscape is undergoing a seismic shift, challenging HR professionals like never before. By the end of 2023, the independent workforce surged to 72 million Americans (1:5) while declining employee engagement continues to cost the global economy $8.8 trillion a year. HR leaders are tasked with fostering engagement and productivity in increasingly diverse and distributed teams.
Enter Dr. Christie Smith, a voice in human-centered leadership and organizational strategy. Known as “The Humanity Expert,” Christie spent decades guiding Fortune 500 executives during her time at Apple, Deloitte, and Accenture through the complexities of modern leadership. Now, she’s the co-author of ESSENTIAL: How Distributed Teams, Generative AI, and Global Shifts are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership (Wiley; 1/22/25), offering a new blueprint for the future of work.
In ESSENTIAL, Smith and co-author Kelly Monahan (Upwork) reveal that our future success depends on one key element — putting humanity back at the heart of organization. Their extensive research shows that human-centered leadership isn’t just a “nice-to-have,” it’s ESSENTIAL for driving innovation, increasing engagement, and sustaining growth in an age of AI and distributed teams.
The episode takes a critical look at leadership in the age of AI, questioning the romanticized notion of workplace environments as families. We dissect the balance between long-term goals and immediate financial pressures, especially in profit-driven businesses. As the buzz around generative AI grows, we stress the importance of understanding its real-world applications and the analytical skills required to leverage it—highlighting that AI is a tool, not the ultimate solution.
We conclude by addressing the urgent need to redesign work for enhanced flexibility and predictability, emphasizing the shift toward holistic work-life integration. With generational attitudes shifting, we explore how aligning leadership models with the desires for autonomy in the workplace is crucial for talent retention. Our conversation wraps up on a heartfelt note, expressing gratitude for the meaningful connections made through the podcast and the passion that fuels our content creation.
Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work. Please connect to continue the conversation!
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http://www.kyleroed.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-roed/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back HR community.
Thrilled to have thisconversation today With us.
We have Christy Smith.
Christy is the founder of theHumanity Studio, a leadership
(00:26):
advisory firm, and author of thebook that is coming out in the
very, very near future Embracethe Power of Human-Powered
Leadership with her bookEssential how Distributed Teams,
generative AI and Global ShiftsAre Creating a New
Human-Powered Leadership.
Christy wrote that book withKelly Monaghan, phd.
(00:48):
Christy, thank you so much forjoining us.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, extremely excited to have you.
As we were kind of doing thepre-meeting before I hit record,
I was telling you that thisbook just hits so many of these
topics that I think are soincredibly critical for so many
of us in the HR community, andI'm really excited for the book
to come out.
I'm curious.
My first question for you iswhat motivated you to write a
(01:16):
book on these topics?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, Well, many, many years of really having the
privilege to serve clients inthe C-suite you know, minus two,
three in organizations and yourcolleagues in HR and really
seeing the shift, especially nowand since the pandemic of
(01:41):
what's required of leaders andwhat the relationship with
employees are, employees'relationship with organizations
and how those drastically haveshifted and the expectations
have shifted.
So I was excited to dig in andlook at those shifts and
hopefully provide some answers.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, I am waiting these answers as well because I
got a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I bet yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I got.
Yeah, I mean, there's so muchhere, right, and I think you
know there's a lot ofconversation around this stuff,
but it's a really, really bigquestion and I think COVID
accelerated this, right, but butthis was always kind of where
we were marching towards anywaysas a society, you know, as as
(02:31):
virtual work became more morerelevant, generative AI has, you
know, I mean that's been aroundfor a long time.
Now it's actually to a pointwhere we're seeing it more
incorporated in the workplace,you know, and the globalization
and distribution of employees,you know, is kind of a natural
evolution of our economy.
So, you know, these are allvery logical shifts, but we
(02:56):
don't necessarily have the toolsto deal with them yet.
Or, certainly, as we look at,like, our leadership development
programs, they're still kind oftargeted towards in-person
leaders and you know, it's kindof like a lot of this leadership
stuff is basically the samestuff that's been around since
the 50s, 60s and 70s.
So I'm curious, as you thinkabout this, this challenge, what
(03:19):
are, what are some of theseareas where you feel like we
need to, we need to broadlyfocus on adjusting the way that
we lead?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Well, I think I think first is a is a mindset shift,
right, I think that you know, asyou say, some of the shifts
that are occurring may belogical, right, but the fact
that they're happening in such acompressed way and it's such
volume, right, I think, adds alayer of complexity both for
(03:52):
leaders and employees to kind ofdigest this, right.
So we're not just talking aboutthe, the direct impacts on an
organization's ability to growor to globalize, or to develop
product or to embrace technology.
We're talking about we'reliving in a polarized society
(04:15):
around the globe.
We are dealing with wars onmultiple fronts.
We're dealing with people whoare trying to take care of their
children and their elders right, and there are not in many
countries, this included thoseservices that allow us to do
this and go work right in anaffordable way.
(04:37):
And so you know, we can't justlook at what are the
organizational impacts.
This is really a socioeconomicand political world that we live
in that are impacting employeesas they cross the threshold of
work.
So I think that leaders are very, very, very in tuned to this,
(05:08):
to this, right.
If you look at what leaderscame out of Davos last year
talking about, it was the globalunrest this year.
They're talking about a lotabout the global unrest and
culture and, as you say, how dowe motivate, keep a workforce
and engage a workforce wheretrust and engagement scores are
the lowest that they've everbeen, right?
(05:29):
So this all demands a differentkind of leader, not one that
just has a fiduciaryresponsibility of run a P&L, but
one that is A a global citizennow P&L, but one that is A a
(05:51):
global citizen now and B needsto care for their employees in a
fundamentally different way andengage their employees in a
different way, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I think it's fascinating to me the broad
impact on engagement scores hereover the last few years where
you know we actually everybodyassumed that they would go on
the in the basement right when,you know, the pandemic hit and
they actually went up a littlebit but then ever since then
they've just, they've just it'sbeen a downward spiral like a
(06:21):
flywheel of doom, and especiallyglobally, when you step outside
of the US they're lower right.
The engagement index scorescontinue to kind of sink.
What do you attribute that toin your research?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, I think that there are a couple of things,
but let's talk about that incontext that low employee
engagement scores andproductivity scores are costing
us $8.8 trillion a year.
Now, that's equivalent toMicrosoft, amazon and Apple
together.
Think about that.
The strain on our economy as aresult of those low engagement
(07:03):
scores and lost productivity isreally significant.
I attribute it to your questionto a couple of things.
One is we're asking employeesto learn technologies and to
change processes and structureswithout any help right.
(07:28):
Our learning and development,investment and learning
development has gone down.
Secondly, we are not ourinsides aren't matching our
outsides.
When we were writing the book,we were looking at not only the
realities of technology and AIand you know the change and
shift in leadership.
We wanted to answer the questionof you know what do employees
(07:52):
require of their leaders, andthey were very clear on four
things Purpose, make sure yourinsides match your outsides.
Live up to your values, live upto the purpose statements that
you are talking about.
The second is agency, and thisis to the point that we were
talking before we went online.
(08:13):
Is you know this notion ofdistributed work, working when,
where and how I want, and youknow making sure that my work
fits into my life right Agencyand defining myself in the way
that I want to define myself,not being defined by a category
created by the organization.
(08:34):
Wellness is the third area thatthe expectation of employees
have of their employees.
Employers are to make sure thattheir employers provide them
with wellness, not only inmental health or health
preventative health but alsofinancial health benefits, those
(08:56):
kinds of things.
And then, lastly, connectioncreate areas and opportunities
for employees to connect.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Absolutely so.
I want to dig into kind of eachone of these, but before I do
I'm curious.
You know, I've heard this a lot, especially over the last few
years, and a lot of times it'sfrom employees who are maybe
more tenured or used to doingthings a certain way.
It's like it's like this, thisthe speed of change continues to
(09:27):
to accelerate, and I thinkthere's a, there's a lot of at
least in my organization.
We see a lot of organizationalstress because of that.
It's like, oh my gosh, when arewe going to catch up?
You know, when are we going tocatch up to this change?
When are we going to get tocatch our breath?
But broadly, I hear that, youknow, I kind of hear that in
society too, right, it's like,if you like, there's just
(09:49):
there's so much, and so wouldyou attribute that feeling to
really a lack of adhering tothese four things and supporting
employees along the way, asbecause the rate of change is
accelerating, right, I mean,it's just naturally going to
(10:09):
with some of these societal andtechnological changes.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, without a doubt .
You know, I think that thereare a couple of things.
Yes, I would say that thesefour areas that we examine in
the book are completely relatedto the ability for employees and
leaders themselves to beresilient right through the
process of change.
So that's one.
(10:33):
Two is change is constant.
You know, I'm just that oldthat I remember, you know, early
in my career as a consultant,where we were doing change
management programs fororganizations and, frankly,
consultancies are still doingthat today.
What we have not done is buildthe muscle for change within the
(10:58):
design of work.
Work should be dynamic.
You know we have talked aboutthings like agility, but we
haven't prepared employees forwhat should be dynamic.
You know we have talked aboutthings like agility, but we
haven't prepared employees forwhat should be constant.
Change right and plan for that,not only in processes but also
in terms of time.
(11:18):
When you are going through achange, it requires your leader
and your team to spend more timetogether.
What we see in organizationstoday is we're going to go
through this transformation andsaddle up and just do it Rather
than building the vision for it,what they can expect of it, how
(11:43):
their work will change, howthey're going to be developed
with regards to their own skillsand capabilities and how.
You know.
What does the outcome look likefor you, your team and everyone
else, and that, I think, iswhat is lacking.
It's not that change is, youknow, hard, it's just we don't
(12:05):
know how to talk about it andplan for it in organizations.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, I totally agree and I think you know I like the
phrase that change is the onlyconstant right Because it's, you
know, that's just the world welive in and so often, once you
get through a, a change, a lotof times the people that were
really resistant look back andgo oh, that wasn't so bad.
(12:30):
You know, it's almost like thefear of change was was worse
than the actual execution ofsaid change event.
Right, um and but.
But I do find that thedifferentiator so many times of
a good experience versus a badexperience comes down to a great
(12:51):
leader.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So it you know that's , and so I do think, like, in
kind of the point of of thisbook here is, you know it's,
it's giving a roadmap for forleaders to understand how to,
how to lead people through this.
So I want for leaders tounderstand how to how to lead
people, uh, through this.
So I want, I want to circlearound.
I love the uh, the term thatyou used, uh, when you were
talking about purpose, and thatis the insides match the
(13:16):
outsides.
Can you unpack that phrase forus?
Um?
just cause I, I love that thatuh kind of visual.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, I mean, I think that let me give an example of
you know how I've seen this playout in many organizations.
Many organizations, as you wellknow, will have great diversity
, equity and inclusionstatements, right, and that they
value this more than anythingelse.
(13:45):
Statements, and that they valuethis more than anything else.
Yet when you look at the amountof individuals who are sitting
in the C-suite minus two orthree they are very homogeneous
and the constant argument isthat, well, it's a pipeline
issue.
You know, I absolutelycategorically think that's a BS
(14:08):
statement, and so I think thatthat's an easy example, right?
You know, you say that youvalue this, you say that you
want this, and yet for 40 years,we've not seen much progress in
terms of marginalizedcommunities reaching the C-suite
.
That's one example.
Another example is you know, wewant to live our ESG values and
(14:36):
yet our carbon footprint andnothing that we do related to
that our packaging, ourrelationship to how we get
things to our clients, thosekinds of things are not lived up
to.
We have, you know, greatstatements from CEOs about this.
Is, you know, a caring family.
(14:57):
We think of our employees asfamily.
That's perhaps the mostdamaging phrase I think can come
out of a senior leader's mouthNow.
I's perhaps the most umdamaging phrase I I uh think can
come out of a senior leader'smouth Now.
I think that the intentions arereally good, but there is
absolutely that is not felt umthroughout an organization.
(15:18):
Um, and we treat each otherpretty poorly, um, things like
oh, you know the bad guys,managers who are verbally
abusive or abusive in any way,if they're top performers, they
say in their role.
Yet companies say, yeah, wedon't tolerate that behavior.
So it's these little things,both on a macro and micro level,
(15:42):
that organizations really haveto have the courage to live to
their values.
Now our younger generations areexposing this right, left and
center in their organizations.
You just go on Fishbowl or anyother kind of platform and you
can see how culture is eroded orthat the insides don't match
(16:05):
the outsides.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Totally, yeah, I think, yes, I love ESG from the
standpoint that it's elevated,the conversation right, and now
we have a terminology for it.
But I think there's so much BSin ESG, right, and I would say
(16:29):
same comment in DEI or any ofthese acronyms and I think, yeah
, I totally agree.
So much of this is about beingauthentic with know, being
authentic with with saying youknow, doing what you say you're
going to do, standing up forthese values.
And I totally side note, Ididn't, I didn't understand the
(16:51):
like, how toxic the statementthat we are like a family was
until I, you know, I I had Idon't know a little bit of a,
you know, an eye opening momentwhere, you know, somebody was
like, do you know howdysfunctional my family was?
Yeah, like, that's exactly howthis is.
So, yeah, you're right, it'slike and this, you know, this
(17:12):
was a long time ago and I waslike, oh, yeah, maybe we
shouldn't call it a familybecause we actually that's not
necessarily a positiveconnotation and it's not
actually accurate, right, we'repursuing a common goal.
You know, we're pursuing commoninterests, we want to help and
support each other, but we arenot a family unit.
(17:32):
Right, we can fire people.
You know, this is different.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, and again, I think that you know this there's
there is very little malicewhen leaders want to talk about
these kinds of things and thatthey, they truly believe it, but
they're in very privilegedpositions, right, right.
And so I think that we justhave to acknowledge that if we,
(17:58):
as a company, are really goingto set forth purpose, then that
means purpose stays alive,because you're talking about the
connections of purpose to workand customers and patients and
all of that all of the time,right?
But leaders are pressuredaround short term outcomes
(18:18):
rather than that ethos of along-term purpose and values.
Now, they're not at odds withone another, of course, but
because of those short-termmetrics and goals that a leader
has to create in order to showvalue to the street, you know it
(18:39):
is, it is purposes lost, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Right, it's only, it's only as important.
It's only as important as howimportant you make the
measurements Correct, right?
Or how important that is to thestakeholders?
Yeah, like the people that,really.
I mean, that's the reality of afor-profit enterprise, correct?
You know what are the dollarsand cents associated.
If it's small, while we mightcare, it's not going to rise to
(19:05):
the level of importance ofprofitability.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Period end of story right, Unless you're losing the
right people.
Unless you're losing the rightpeople.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Right, right, okay, I love that, so, okay.
So I want to maybe jump into alittle bit of a tangent, because
I feel like I can't go podcastwithout talking about this.
So, speaking of BS, how much ofthe noise around generative AI
is real, like, like, like, what?
(19:34):
What should we be preparingourselves and our leaders for as
it relates to this AI?
Because I feel like there's somany headlines but when you
really unpack it it's not astransformative as everybody
thinks it's going to be, as itrelates to kind of the humanity
within the workplace.
So what's your perspective onAI and how that kind of
(19:56):
interplays with all of theseleadership?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah, I think the advances in technology and AI
would certainly fall into this.
So, whether you're talkingabout AI or automation, you know
, and data that we get from itall goodness right, I think that
they can be very powerful toolsfor good right, powerful tools
(20:26):
for good right, but there issuch a lack of understanding of
how, when, where to use these inthe context of not only a
company, but in the context ofsomeone's job, their
relationship to another area ofthe company, or their
relationship to the end user,customer or ecosystem partners.
Right, and what what we've done.
(20:47):
You know we love heroes,whether those are hero CEOs that
we put on a pedestal or herotechnologies that we put on a
pedestal Right.
We love that Right that we puton a pedestal.
Right, we love that right.
However, what we don't do is becurious enough to say how is
this really going to work?
(21:07):
Not only for me as a boomer whoreally has a hard time
integrating new technology,right?
Or as me relating to a Gen Zwho's in my organization, who's
using this all the time and,frankly, getting fabulous ideas,
but there's so many're going touse AI.
(21:51):
Here's the context and outcomeswe're looking for for AI.
Here's how it's going to impactyour job.
Here's how we're going to trainyou around this.
And oh, by the way, what we needfrom you is not only using the
tool in the right way, but alsobeing smart enough and
(22:14):
analytical enough to say whatanswer I get.
Question that Is that you knowthose analytical skills and
critical thinking around thetool and to understand the
outcome in the context of theimpact to you know, whatever
product we're developing orwhatever customer interaction
(22:36):
we're having, those are thethings that we have not done.
Therefore, I think that you'retalking about the noise of
generative AI and all that it'stalking about.
Well, people are talking aboutit because nobody can define
what does it actually mean, notonly to the company, but for the
team and for me as an employee?
And oh, by the way, train me.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right, right, which we've already touched on.
That I love.
I love the uh, I love tying itdown back to like the hero, like
like thinking of AI as thishero, almost on this like hero's
journey, right, but the realityis like like it is.
It's it's really reallyundefined.
It's a really really broadtopic.
I think my favorite prompt inchat, gpt, is what was your
source for this information?
(23:16):
And it's like yeah, you know,cat, fancycom, right.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
You know, like like you gotta you gotta like.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It's no different than like Googling something and
then hoping that you get a youknow, a decent, you know valid
response, but you still like.
The ability to like, questionthe data and the outcome and use
your own kind of you knowanalytical capabilities is even
more critical now than it everhas.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You know, I think that if you look at the impact
of this technology and mosttechnologies that you know are
entering into the workforcetoday, they're not working
because people are not beinggiven the time.
In fact, you know there was astudy in the New York Times
talked about this that actuallyAI is more.
(24:04):
People are rejecting it withintheir organizations because the
fact is that they can't.
You know, they don't have timeto use it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
They don't understand how to use it within the
context of their job.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's really, you know, it's, it's
fascinating because, you know, I, I hear that and that makes
sense to me and, and you know,just in my own anecdotal
experience, you know there's,you know everybody's in such a
rush and it's, you know, yeah,well, let's say, I've got this
AI tool and I'm supposed to testthis out, but you know, I got,
I got this, this and this I gotto get done.
I'm just not going to have time, Forget it, I'll just do it
(24:39):
myself.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Or I'll go ask the guy that I always ask.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Right, right, because it's easier or I just know how
to do it, but the reality isthis could be an enabler, right,
as we talk about the rate ofchange and some of these
challenges, I will tell you as aglobal HR professional AI has
an extremely exciting use casefor translation, language and
(25:06):
communication.
Um, you know, I use it to recapalmost every single meeting
that I do now, and it's prettydarn good at it, right, but?
But I don't use it.
I don't use it to make reallythoughtful strategic decisions.
Right, I use it to recap thingsand then and then prompt, you
know, other dialogue and you canuse it for translation
(25:29):
capability, but it can, likethis can, really make you know,
the employee experiencesignificantly better if we take
the time to figure out how itworks.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Well, and if you take the time to train people, I
mean, your schedule probablylooks like mine, which I've
changed dramatically that youknow I am on the West Coast, so
I have the curse of the WestCoast.
You know it's 6 am to.
You know 6 pm, meeting aftermeeting, after meeting after
meeting there's no, and thenafter 6 pm, getting the work
(25:57):
done right and summing up things.
That's not sustainable.
I don't live that way anymore,but it is not sustainable.
And the reality is, if we aregoing to use tools like AI or
(26:23):
other analytical and insighttools or automation
manufacturing, whatever it is,we need to take the time to
teach people and to give themopportunities to practice it,
and we're just not doing that inthe name of productivity, which
is why engagement is so low andwhy you know we're spending
$322 billion a year on mentalhealth issues.
I mean, that is the newpandemic.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So let's, let's talk about thata little bit and I you know,
and you talked about you know,you talked about purpose, agency
, wellness and connection, and Ithink, I think my, my thought
would be that this wellness andconnection piece are so
incredibly intertwined.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
And I will like like my own personal experience.
So I was essentially stuck athome for a year.
In that time we transitionedfrom a largely in-person
workplace into almostexclusively virtual as it
related to meetings and offices.
But I was just personallylonely.
(27:23):
I'm an extrovert, right,there's a reason I'm in human
resources.
I actually like people believeit or not, to anybody that's
listening to this but you knowit's like lonely and tedious to
just be sitting at home andthere's no break or disconnect
between that little desk thatyou sit at and talk on a laptop
on, versus the you know, drivingto an office that can actually
(27:47):
missed a commute, believe it ornot.
Um, and, and so you know, I'mcurious what?
What advice do you have for usthat work in these organizations
that that have have this as acomponent of their workplace and
will continue to have it forthe you know foreseeable future?
How can we help support mentalhealth, support that
(28:08):
connectedness and, you know,kind of give people what they're
asking for in their employmentexperience?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that the basics have to
be there, right?
So if you think of Maslow'shierarchy of needs, the
organization has to provideservices that people have access
to and that are paid for to getmental health services right.
So I think that that's changeda lot, and you've seen
(28:37):
technology really impact thatcapability Companies like
BetterUp, for instance, beingable to provide that kind of
access is really quiteremarkable.
I think the other thing is iswe have to start thinking about
what are the systemic issuesthat are impacting mental health
(29:01):
at work, whether in adistributed way or not.
Those systemic issues and thereturn to office kind of
mandates impact women and peopleof color more significantly
than straight white men.
Because of child care issues,right, or elder care issues.
(29:23):
We don't have, you know, access.
A lot of our companies don'thave access for child care
stipends or elder care stipends.
So that is a huge impact Interms of, you know, the ability
(29:44):
for individuals to find meaningand connection at work.
It really goes back to whatwe've been talking about even
before the pandemic that westill haven't executed well on,
and that is how do we designwork differently, right?
How do we fundamentally designwork differently so that people
(30:05):
can have much more flexibilityand predictability in their days
for either coming into work ornot coming into work.
Who are they?
You know?
Are we taking a project-basedmodel where people can work on
their work in teams, whetherit's in this format or not?
So we just haven't.
(30:27):
We've had a failure ofimagination and execution when
it comes to how we design work.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I think that's a power, really powerful point.
A power, really powerful point,um, you know, and I, and I
think it's it's, it'sinteresting because, yeah, this,
this isn't, this isn't new.
You know, people have beenasking for flexibility in the
workplace for for years.
Um, I continue to see more andmore and more what I like the
(30:56):
outside trickling in.
Right, there used to be such alike, such an attitude,
certainly when I first startedin my career, that you leave
home, at home, and you know, you, you, you shut that door when
you come into work and you goback home and you leave, you
leave them both separate, right,but the reality is now,
everything's integrated, right,there's no, you, you're not
(31:17):
leaving it at home, um, you'rebringing it with you.
And, and the reality is, humanbeings don't operate like that.
You can't compartmentalize yourentire existence and hope to
not have some sort of a mentalbreak.
I mean, it's just not how itworked.
And so I think we've, we'rerealizing as a society this
isn't working, um, but to yourpoint, we, we have, we have an
opportunity now to be creative,to think a little differently
(31:38):
and redesign this.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, we have generations in the workforce who
are in polar opposite thinkingaround this.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And who have different skills to navigate it.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
That's fascinating.
I mean, you know, there's likethis great sucking sound to get
everybody back in the office now, you know, and it, and it's
like, well, it's so I and it,you know, I'll tell a true story
.
So, you know, we had a similar,similar phenomenon in my
organization and we brought abunch of people back.
And you know it was a, it was abroad initiative and you know,
our thought is, well, it'sreally going to drive engagement
(32:12):
.
Let's get people backcollaborating more and
collaborating more.
And somebody came to my officeafter we started and said, you
know, I'm just sitting onvirtual teams meetings in a
cubicle with, like, nobody elsearound me, right, like I'm
literally doing exactly what I'mlike, yeah, maybe we can think
a little differently about this,right?
So if you're in the office,collaborate, like there should
(32:33):
be like an intentionalcollaborative opportunity, and
that makes sense to have peoplein person for some of these
things.
But where it's not required,then why are you requiring it?
Right, and I, I, my argument isI think it's more about that
flexibility piece.
People don't necessarily careabout being in the office, but
they want that flexibility inthat, that, uh, that agency, as
you put it to.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah.
And for those who are not inthe office, yeah, those who are
not in the office, let's becreative and look at the zip
codes of where our employees areworking remotely and, you know,
rent out a table at, or reservea table at, starbucks for
everybody to go work there.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Right, right I mean there's a lot of ways to do this
.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
There's a lot of ways to do this.
I know that sounds simple, butgosh, you know that does not
take.
You know that doesn't take alot.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Right, right, totally , totally agree, so much.
So my argument on that is likeand so I I'm a little bit in the
middle on this Like I, I lovebeing in person.
Personally, I also appreciatethat some people don't.
But there's also like, I thinkthat you just have to be very,
(33:44):
very intentional about it, right, like, if you have an
intentional collaborativeopportunity and you need to be
in person, great, go figure itout.
But where you don't need to,there's a ton of there's like
technology enabled tools whereyou can collaborate really,
really heavily asynchronously,yeah, and probably do, probably
have people perform better,because maybe someone has their
(34:05):
best ideas at two in the morningand somebody does at 10 in the
morning.
Right, you know, there's allthese.
Now you're, now you're actuallyplaying to somebody's.
You know own individual um, youknow capabilities.
That is 100, yeah, Icapabilities.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
That is a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, I'm totally, I'm totally with you.
Well, I told you before we hitrecord that we would just start
getting into the heart of theconversation and not want it to
end.
But unfortunately, here we are.
So we're going to awkwardly andunfortunately shift into the
Rebel HR flash round.
So, all right, question numberone where do we need to rebel?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Designing new models for leadership.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I couldn't agree more , and I think you know I love
that you have kind of put aroadmap together in this book,
and I think it's just soincredibly correct that this is
what employees are asking for.
This is what they've beenasking for for a while, but at a
(35:12):
certain point this is justgoing to become a mandate.
This has to be the new model,because the employers and
leaders that don't adopt thisapproach are just not going to
be able to keep people.
I mean, that's just the realityof it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
So yeah, we believe that, obviously believe that
very strongly in the emotionalleader and leader Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Couldn't, couldn't agree more.
Question number two who shouldwe be listening to?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
we be listening to Yourself.
I think we need more time forpeople to be in reflection and
really discernment, not onlyaround what they want for their
own lives, but their own desiresfor their purpose in the work
that they do and how they buildthat connection for themselves,
not wait for someone to build itfor them.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I love that, I love that response and in this, you
know, especially in this, inthis world there's there's a lot
of external noise and externalfactors and influences and I
think the people that can getreflective and quiet.
You know that's necessary for anumber of reasons.
All right, last question howcan our listeners connect with
(36:27):
you and how can they get theirhands on the book?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, they can go to our website, smith-monaghancom,
and that's where you'll findinformation on the book.
You will also find links to theHumanity Studio.
You can also go straight tothehumanitystudiocom and you
will find more about us and thebook.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I love it.
The book, one more time, isEssential, and the subtitle is
how Distributed Teams,generative AI and Global Shifts
are Creating a New Human-PoweredLeadership.
We will have a link to that inthe show notes.
Open up your podcast player,click in and get your hands on
the book.
(37:13):
Christy, just an absolutelywonderful conversation.
Thank you for putting in thetime and energy to put this
content out there and appreciateyour work.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Thank you, kyle, really had a great time.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast, Twitter at RebelGuy,
or see our website atRebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by RebelHR Podcast are
those of the authors and do notnecessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
(37:50):
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Baby.
This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back HR community.
Thrilled to have thisconversation today With us.
We have Christy Smith.
Christy is the founder of theHumanity Studio, a leadership
(00:26):
advisory firm, and author of thebook that is coming out in the
very, very near future Embracethe Power of Human-Powered
Leadership with her bookEssential how Distributed Teams,
generative AI and Global ShiftsAre Creating a New
Human-Powered Leadership.
Christy wrote that book withKelly Monaghan, phd.
(00:48):
Christy, thank you so much forjoining us.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, extremely excited to have you.
As we were kind of doing thepre-meeting before I hit record,
I was telling you that thisbook just hits so many of these
topics that I think are soincredibly critical for so many
of us in the HR community, andI'm really excited for the book
to come out.
I'm curious.
My first question for you iswhat motivated you to write a
(01:16):
book on these topics?
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Yeah, Well, many, many years of really having the
privilege to serve clients inthe C-suite you know, minus two,
three in organizations and yourcolleagues in HR and really
seeing the shift, especially nowand since the pandemic of
(01:41):
what's required of leaders andwhat the relationship with
employees are, employees'relationship with organizations
and how those drastically haveshifted and the expectations
have shifted.
So I was excited to dig in andlook at those shifts and
hopefully provide some answers.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Well, I am waiting these answers as well because I
got a lot of questions.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
I bet yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I got.
Yeah, I mean, there's so muchhere, right, and I think you
know there's a lot ofconversation around this stuff,
but it's a really, really bigquestion and I think COVID
accelerated this, right, but butthis was always kind of where
we were marching towards anywaysas a society, you know, as as
(02:31):
virtual work became more morerelevant, generative AI has, you
know, I mean that's been aroundfor a long time.
Now it's actually to a pointwhere we're seeing it more
incorporated in the workplace,you know, and the globalization
and distribution of employees,you know, is kind of a natural
evolution of our economy.
So, you know, these are allvery logical shifts, but we
(02:56):
don't necessarily have the toolsto deal with them yet.
Or, certainly, as we look at,like, our leadership development
programs, they're still kind oftargeted towards in-person
leaders and you know, it's kindof like a lot of this leadership
stuff is basically the samestuff that's been around since
the 50s, 60s and 70s.
So I'm curious, as you thinkabout this, this challenge, what
(03:19):
are, what are some of theseareas where you feel like we
need to, we need to broadlyfocus on adjusting the way that
we lead?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Well, I think I think first is a is a mindset shift,
right, I think that you know, asyou say, some of the shifts
that are occurring may belogical, right, but the fact
that they're happening in such acompressed way and it's such
volume, right, I think, adds alayer of complexity both for
(03:52):
leaders and employees to kind ofdigest this, right.
So we're not just talking aboutthe, the direct impacts on an
organization's ability to growor to globalize, or to develop
product or to embrace technology.
We're talking about we'reliving in a polarized society
(04:15):
around the globe.
We are dealing with wars onmultiple fronts.
We're dealing with people whoare trying to take care of their
children and their elders right, and there are not in many
countries, this included thoseservices that allow us to do
this and go work right in anaffordable way.
(04:37):
And so you know, we can't justlook at what are the
organizational impacts.
This is really a socioeconomicand political world that we live
in that are impacting employeesas they cross the threshold of
work.
So I think that leaders are very, very, very in tuned to this,
(05:08):
to this, right.
If you look at what leaderscame out of Davos last year
talking about, it was the globalunrest this year.
They're talking about a lotabout the global unrest and
culture and, as you say, how dowe motivate, keep a workforce
and engage a workforce wheretrust and engagement scores are
the lowest that they've everbeen, right?
(05:29):
So this all demands a differentkind of leader, not one that
just has a fiduciaryresponsibility of run a P&L, but
one that is A a global citizennow P&L, but one that is A a
(05:51):
global citizen now and B needsto care for their employees in a
fundamentally different way andengage their employees in a
different way, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I think it's fascinating to me the broad
impact on engagement scores hereover the last few years where
you know we actually everybodyassumed that they would go on
the in the basement right when,you know, the pandemic hit and
they actually went up a littlebit but then ever since then
they've just, they've just it'sbeen a downward spiral like a
(06:21):
flywheel of doom, and especiallyglobally, when you step outside
of the US they're lower right.
The engagement index scorescontinue to kind of sink.
What do you attribute that toin your research?
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Well, I think that there are a couple of things,
but let's talk about that incontext that low employee
engagement scores andproductivity scores are costing
us $8.8 trillion a year.
Now, that's equivalent toMicrosoft, amazon and Apple
together.
Think about that.
The strain on our economy as aresult of those low engagement
(07:03):
scores and lost productivity isreally significant.
I attribute it to your questionto a couple of things.
One is we're asking employeesto learn technologies and to
change processes and structureswithout any help right.
(07:28):
Our learning and development,investment and learning
development has gone down.
Secondly, we are not ourinsides aren't matching our
outsides.
When we were writing the book,we were looking at not only the
realities of technology and AIand you know the change and
shift in leadership.
We wanted to answer the questionof you know what do employees
(07:52):
require of their leaders, andthey were very clear on four
things Purpose, make sure yourinsides match your outsides.
Live up to your values, live upto the purpose statements that
you are talking about.
The second is agency, and thisis to the point that we were
talking before we went online.
(08:13):
Is you know this notion ofdistributed work, working when,
where and how I want, and youknow making sure that my work
fits into my life right Agencyand defining myself in the way
that I want to define myself,not being defined by a category
created by the organization.
(08:34):
Wellness is the third area thatthe expectation of employees
have of their employees.
Employers are to make sure thattheir employers provide them
with wellness, not only inmental health or health
preventative health but alsofinancial health benefits, those
(08:56):
kinds of things.
And then, lastly, connectioncreate areas and opportunities
for employees to connect.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Absolutely so.
I want to dig into kind of eachone of these, but before I do
I'm curious.
You know, I've heard this a lot, especially over the last few
years, and a lot of times it'sfrom employees who are maybe
more tenured or used to doingthings a certain way.
It's like it's like this, thisthe speed of change continues to
(09:27):
to accelerate, and I thinkthere's a, there's a lot of at
least in my organization.
We see a lot of organizationalstress because of that.
It's like, oh my gosh, when arewe going to catch up?
You know, when are we going tocatch up to this change?
When are we going to get tocatch our breath?
But broadly, I hear that, youknow, I kind of hear that in
society too, right, it's like,if you like, there's just
(09:49):
there's so much, and so wouldyou attribute that feeling to
really a lack of adhering tothese four things and supporting
employees along the way, asbecause the rate of change is
accelerating, right, I mean,it's just naturally going to
(10:09):
with some of these societal andtechnological changes.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Yeah, without a doubt .
You know, I think that thereare a couple of things.
Yes, I would say that thesefour areas that we examine in
the book are completely relatedto the ability for employees and
leaders themselves to beresilient right through the
process of change.
So that's one.
(10:33):
Two is change is constant.
You know, I'm just that oldthat I remember, you know, early
in my career as a consultant,where we were doing change
management programs fororganizations and, frankly,
consultancies are still doingthat today.
What we have not done is buildthe muscle for change within the
(10:58):
design of work.
Work should be dynamic.
You know we have talked aboutthings like agility, but we
haven't prepared employees forwhat should be dynamic.
You know we have talked aboutthings like agility, but we
haven't prepared employees forwhat should be constant.
Change right and plan for that,not only in processes but also
in terms of time.
(11:18):
When you are going through achange, it requires your leader
and your team to spend more timetogether.
What we see in organizationstoday is we're going to go
through this transformation andsaddle up and just do it Rather
than building the vision for it,what they can expect of it, how
(11:43):
their work will change, howthey're going to be developed
with regards to their own skillsand capabilities and how.
You know.
What does the outcome look likefor you, your team and everyone
else, and that, I think, iswhat is lacking.
It's not that change is, youknow, hard, it's just we don't
(12:05):
know how to talk about it andplan for it in organizations.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, I totally agree and I think you know I like the
phrase that change is the onlyconstant right Because it's, you
know, that's just the world welive in and so often, once you
get through a, a change, a lotof times the people that were
really resistant look back andgo oh, that wasn't so bad.
(12:30):
You know, it's almost like thefear of change was was worse
than the actual execution ofsaid change event.
Right, um and but.
But I do find that thedifferentiator so many times of
a good experience versus a badexperience comes down to a great
(12:51):
leader.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Without a doubt.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
So it you know that's , and so I do think, like, in
kind of the point of of thisbook here is, you know it's,
it's giving a roadmap for forleaders to understand how to,
how to lead people through this.
So I want for leaders tounderstand how to how to lead
people, uh, through this.
So I want, I want to circlearound.
I love the uh, the term thatyou used, uh, when you were
talking about purpose, and thatis the insides match the
(13:16):
outsides.
Can you unpack that phrase forus?
Um?
just cause I, I love that thatuh kind of visual.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
Yeah, I mean, I think that let me give an example of
you know how I've seen this playout in many organizations.
Many organizations, as you wellknow, will have great diversity
, equity and inclusionstatements, right, and that they
value this more than anythingelse.
(13:45):
Statements, and that they valuethis more than anything else.
Yet when you look at the amountof individuals who are sitting
in the C-suite minus two orthree they are very homogeneous
and the constant argument isthat, well, it's a pipeline
issue.
You know, I absolutelycategorically think that's a BS
(14:08):
statement, and so I think thatthat's an easy example, right?
You know, you say that youvalue this, you say that you
want this, and yet for 40 years,we've not seen much progress in
terms of marginalizedcommunities reaching the C-suite
.
That's one example.
Another example is you know, wewant to live our ESG values and
(14:36):
yet our carbon footprint andnothing that we do related to
that our packaging, ourrelationship to how we get
things to our clients, thosekinds of things are not lived up
to.
We have, you know, greatstatements from CEOs about this.
Is, you know, a caring family.
(14:57):
We think of our employees asfamily.
That's perhaps the mostdamaging phrase I think can come
out of a senior leader's mouthNow.
I's perhaps the most umdamaging phrase I I uh think can
come out of a senior leader'smouth Now.
I think that the intentions arereally good, but there is
absolutely that is not felt umthroughout an organization.
(15:18):
Um, and we treat each otherpretty poorly, um, things like
oh, you know the bad guys,managers who are verbally
abusive or abusive in any way,if they're top performers, they
say in their role.
Yet companies say, yeah, wedon't tolerate that behavior.
So it's these little things,both on a macro and micro level,
(15:42):
that organizations really haveto have the courage to live to
their values.
Now our younger generations areexposing this right, left and
center in their organizations.
You just go on Fishbowl or anyother kind of platform and you
can see how culture is eroded orthat the insides don't match
(16:05):
the outsides.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Totally, yeah, I think, yes, I love ESG from the
standpoint that it's elevated,the conversation right, and now
we have a terminology for it.
But I think there's so much BSin ESG, right, and I would say
(16:29):
same comment in DEI or any ofthese acronyms and I think, yeah
, I totally agree.
So much of this is about beingauthentic with know, being
authentic with with saying youknow, doing what you say you're
going to do, standing up forthese values.
And I totally side note, Ididn't, I didn't understand the
(16:51):
like, how toxic the statementthat we are like a family was
until I, you know, I I had Idon't know a little bit of a,
you know, an eye opening momentwhere, you know, somebody was
like, do you know howdysfunctional my family was?
Yeah, like, that's exactly howthis is.
So, yeah, you're right, it'slike and this, you know, this
(17:12):
was a long time ago and I waslike, oh, yeah, maybe we
shouldn't call it a familybecause we actually that's not
necessarily a positiveconnotation and it's not
actually accurate, right, we'repursuing a common goal.
You know, we're pursuing commoninterests, we want to help and
support each other, but we arenot a family unit.
(17:32):
Right, we can fire people.
You know, this is different.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, and again, I think that you know this there's
there is very little malicewhen leaders want to talk about
these kinds of things and thatthey, they truly believe it, but
they're in very privilegedpositions, right, right.
And so I think that we justhave to acknowledge that if we,
(17:58):
as a company, are really goingto set forth purpose, then that
means purpose stays alive,because you're talking about the
connections of purpose to workand customers and patients and
all of that all of the time,right?
But leaders are pressuredaround short term outcomes
(18:18):
rather than that ethos of along-term purpose and values.
Now, they're not at odds withone another, of course, but
because of those short-termmetrics and goals that a leader
has to create in order to showvalue to the street, you know it
(18:39):
is, it is purposes lost, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Right, it's only, it's only as important.
It's only as important as howimportant you make the
measurements Correct, right?
Or how important that is to thestakeholders?
Yeah, like the people that,really.
I mean, that's the reality of afor-profit enterprise, correct?
You know what are the dollarsand cents associated.
If it's small, while we mightcare, it's not going to rise to
(19:05):
the level of importance ofprofitability.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Period end of story right, Unless you're losing the
right people.
Unless you're losing the rightpeople.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Right, right, okay, I love that, so, okay.
So I want to maybe jump into alittle bit of a tangent, because
I feel like I can't go podcastwithout talking about this.
So, speaking of BS, how much ofthe noise around generative AI
is real, like, like, like, what?
(19:34):
What should we be preparingourselves and our leaders for as
it relates to this AI?
Because I feel like there's somany headlines but when you
really unpack it it's not astransformative as everybody
thinks it's going to be, as itrelates to kind of the humanity
within the workplace.
So what's your perspective onAI and how that kind of
(19:56):
interplays with all of theseleadership?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Yeah, I think the advances in technology and AI
would certainly fall into this.
So, whether you're talkingabout AI or automation, you know
, and data that we get from itall goodness right, I think that
they can be very powerful toolsfor good right, powerful tools
(20:26):
for good right, but there issuch a lack of understanding of
how, when, where to use these inthe context of not only a
company, but in the context ofsomeone's job, their
relationship to another area ofthe company, or their
relationship to the end user,customer or ecosystem partners.
Right, and what what we've done.
(20:47):
You know we love heroes,whether those are hero CEOs that
we put on a pedestal or herotechnologies that we put on a
pedestal Right.
We love that Right that we puton a pedestal.
Right, we love that right.
However, what we don't do is becurious enough to say how is
this really going to work?
(21:07):
Not only for me as a boomer whoreally has a hard time
integrating new technology,right?
Or as me relating to a Gen Zwho's in my organization, who's
using this all the time and,frankly, getting fabulous ideas,
but there's so many're going touse AI.
(21:51):
Here's the context and outcomeswe're looking for for AI.
Here's how it's going to impactyour job.
Here's how we're going to trainyou around this.
And oh, by the way, what we needfrom you is not only using the
tool in the right way, but alsobeing smart enough and
(22:14):
analytical enough to say whatanswer I get.
Question that Is that you knowthose analytical skills and
critical thinking around thetool and to understand the
outcome in the context of theimpact to you know, whatever
product we're developing orwhatever customer interaction
(22:36):
we're having, those are thethings that we have not done.
Therefore, I think that you'retalking about the noise of
generative AI and all that it'stalking about.
Well, people are talking aboutit because nobody can define
what does it actually mean, notonly to the company, but for the
team and for me as an employee?
And oh, by the way, train me.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right, right, which we've already touched on.
That I love.
I love the uh, I love tying itdown back to like the hero, like
like thinking of AI as thishero, almost on this like hero's
journey, right, but the realityis like like it is.
It's it's really reallyundefined.
It's a really really broadtopic.
I think my favorite prompt inchat, gpt, is what was your
source for this information?
(23:16):
And it's like yeah, you know,cat, fancycom, right.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
You know, like like you gotta you gotta like.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
It's no different than like Googling something and
then hoping that you get a youknow, a decent, you know valid
response, but you still like.
The ability to like, questionthe data and the outcome and use
your own kind of you knowanalytical capabilities is even
more critical now than it everhas.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
You know, I think that if you look at the impact
of this technology and mosttechnologies that you know are
entering into the workforcetoday, they're not working
because people are not beinggiven the time.
In fact, you know there was astudy in the New York Times
talked about this that actuallyAI is more.
(24:04):
People are rejecting it withintheir organizations because the
fact is that they can't.
You know, they don't have timeto use it.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
They don't understand how to use it within the
context of their job.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, yeah, it's really, you know, it's, it's
fascinating because, you know, I, I hear that and that makes
sense to me and, and you know,just in my own anecdotal
experience, you know there's,you know everybody's in such a
rush and it's, you know, yeah,well, let's say, I've got this
AI tool and I'm supposed to testthis out, but you know, I got,
I got this, this and this I gotto get done.
I'm just not going to have time, Forget it, I'll just do it
(24:39):
myself.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Or I'll go ask the guy that I always ask.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Right, right, because it's easier or I just know how
to do it, but the reality isthis could be an enabler, right,
as we talk about the rate ofchange and some of these
challenges, I will tell you as aglobal HR professional AI has
an extremely exciting use casefor translation, language and
(25:06):
communication.
Um, you know, I use it to recapalmost every single meeting
that I do now, and it's prettydarn good at it, right, but?
But I don't use it.
I don't use it to make reallythoughtful strategic decisions.
Right, I use it to recap thingsand then and then prompt, you
know, other dialogue and you canuse it for translation
(25:29):
capability, but it can, likethis can, really make you know,
the employee experiencesignificantly better if we take
the time to figure out how itworks.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Well, and if you take the time to train people, I
mean, your schedule probablylooks like mine, which I've
changed dramatically that youknow I am on the West Coast, so
I have the curse of the WestCoast.
You know it's 6 am to.
You know 6 pm, meeting aftermeeting, after meeting after
meeting there's no, and thenafter 6 pm, getting the work
(25:57):
done right and summing up things.
That's not sustainable.
I don't live that way anymore,but it is not sustainable.
And the reality is, if we aregoing to use tools like AI or
(26:23):
other analytical and insighttools or automation
manufacturing, whatever it is,we need to take the time to
teach people and to give themopportunities to practice it,
and we're just not doing that inthe name of productivity, which
is why engagement is so low andwhy you know we're spending
$322 billion a year on mentalhealth issues.
I mean, that is the newpandemic.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah.
So let's, let's talk about thata little bit and I you know,
and you talked about you know,you talked about purpose, agency
, wellness and connection, and Ithink, I think my, my thought
would be that this wellness andconnection piece are so
incredibly intertwined.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
And I will like like my own personal experience.
So I was essentially stuck athome for a year.
In that time we transitionedfrom a largely in-person
workplace into almostexclusively virtual as it
related to meetings and offices.
But I was just personallylonely.
(27:23):
I'm an extrovert, right,there's a reason I'm in human
resources.
I actually like people believeit or not, to anybody that's
listening to this but you knowit's like lonely and tedious to
just be sitting at home andthere's no break or disconnect
between that little desk thatyou sit at and talk on a laptop
on, versus the you know, drivingto an office that can actually
(27:47):
missed a commute, believe it ornot.
Um, and, and so you know, I'mcurious what?
What advice do you have for usthat work in these organizations
that that have have this as acomponent of their workplace and
will continue to have it forthe you know foreseeable future?
How can we help support mentalhealth, support that
(28:08):
connectedness and, you know,kind of give people what they're
asking for in their employmentexperience?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that the basics have to
be there, right?
So if you think of Maslow'shierarchy of needs, the
organization has to provideservices that people have access
to and that are paid for to getmental health services right.
So I think that that's changeda lot, and you've seen
(28:37):
technology really impact thatcapability Companies like
BetterUp, for instance, beingable to provide that kind of
access is really quiteremarkable.
I think the other thing is iswe have to start thinking about
what are the systemic issuesthat are impacting mental health
(29:01):
at work, whether in adistributed way or not.
Those systemic issues and thereturn to office kind of
mandates impact women and peopleof color more significantly
than straight white men.
Because of child care issues,right, or elder care issues.
(29:23):
We don't have, you know, access.
A lot of our companies don'thave access for child care
stipends or elder care stipends.
So that is a huge impact Interms of, you know, the ability
(29:44):
for individuals to find meaningand connection at work.
It really goes back to whatwe've been talking about even
before the pandemic that westill haven't executed well on,
and that is how do we designwork differently, right?
How do we fundamentally designwork differently so that people
(30:05):
can have much more flexibilityand predictability in their days
for either coming into work ornot coming into work.
Who are they?
You know?
Are we taking a project-basedmodel where people can work on
their work in teams, whetherit's in this format or not?
So we just haven't.
(30:27):
We've had a failure ofimagination and execution when
it comes to how we design work.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I think that's a power, really powerful point.
A power, really powerful point,um, you know, and I, and I
think it's it's, it'sinteresting because, yeah, this,
this isn't, this isn't new.
You know, people have beenasking for flexibility in the
workplace for for years.
Um, I continue to see more andmore and more what I like the
(30:56):
outside trickling in.
Right, there used to be such alike, such an attitude,
certainly when I first startedin my career, that you leave
home, at home, and you know, you, you, you shut that door when
you come into work and you goback home and you leave, you
leave them both separate, right,but the reality is now,
everything's integrated, right,there's no, you, you're not
(31:17):
leaving it at home, um, you'rebringing it with you.
And, and the reality is, humanbeings don't operate like that.
You can't compartmentalize yourentire existence and hope to
not have some sort of a mentalbreak.
I mean, it's just not how itworked.
And so I think we've, we'rerealizing as a society this
isn't working, um, but to yourpoint, we, we have, we have an
opportunity now to be creative,to think a little differently
(31:38):
and redesign this.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, we have generations in the workforce who
are in polar opposite thinkingaround this.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
And who have different skills to navigate it.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
That's fascinating.
I mean, you know, there's likethis great sucking sound to get
everybody back in the office now, you know, and it, and it's
like, well, it's so I and it,you know, I'll tell a true story
.
So, you know, we had a similar,similar phenomenon in my
organization and we brought abunch of people back.
And you know it was a, it was abroad initiative and you know,
our thought is, well, it'sreally going to drive engagement
(32:12):
.
Let's get people backcollaborating more and
collaborating more.
And somebody came to my officeafter we started and said, you
know, I'm just sitting onvirtual teams meetings in a
cubicle with, like, nobody elsearound me, right, like I'm
literally doing exactly what I'mlike, yeah, maybe we can think
a little differently about this,right?
So if you're in the office,collaborate, like there should
(32:33):
be like an intentionalcollaborative opportunity, and
that makes sense to have peoplein person for some of these
things.
But where it's not required,then why are you requiring it?
Right, and I, I, my argument isI think it's more about that
flexibility piece.
People don't necessarily careabout being in the office, but
they want that flexibility inthat, that, uh, that agency, as
you put it to.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah.
And for those who are not inthe office, yeah, those who are
not in the office, let's becreative and look at the zip
codes of where our employees areworking remotely and, you know,
rent out a table at, or reservea table at, starbucks for
everybody to go work there.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Right, right I mean there's a lot of ways to do this
.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
There's a lot of ways to do this.
I know that sounds simple, butgosh, you know that does not
take.
You know that doesn't take alot.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Right, right, totally , totally agree, so much.
So my argument on that is likeand so I I'm a little bit in the
middle on this Like I, I lovebeing in person.
Personally, I also appreciatethat some people don't.
But there's also like, I thinkthat you just have to be very,
(33:44):
very intentional about it, right, like, if you have an
intentional collaborativeopportunity and you need to be
in person, great, go figure itout.
But where you don't need to,there's a ton of there's like
technology enabled tools whereyou can collaborate really,
really heavily asynchronously,yeah, and probably do, probably
have people perform better,because maybe someone has their
(34:05):
best ideas at two in the morningand somebody does at 10 in the
morning.
Right, you know, there's allthese.
Now you're, now you're actuallyplaying to somebody's.
You know own individual um, youknow capabilities.
That is 100, yeah, Icapabilities.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
That is a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, I'm totally, I'm totally with you.
Well, I told you before we hitrecord that we would just start
getting into the heart of theconversation and not want it to
end.
But unfortunately, here we are.
So we're going to awkwardly andunfortunately shift into the
Rebel HR flash round.
So, all right, question numberone where do we need to rebel?
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Designing new models for leadership.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
I couldn't agree more , and I think you know I love
that you have kind of put aroadmap together in this book,
and I think it's just soincredibly correct that this is
what employees are asking for.
This is what they've beenasking for for a while, but at a
(35:12):
certain point this is justgoing to become a mandate.
This has to be the new model,because the employers and
leaders that don't adopt thisapproach are just not going to
be able to keep people.
I mean, that's just the realityof it.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
So yeah, we believe that, obviously believe that
very strongly in the emotionalleader and leader Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Couldn't, couldn't agree more.
Question number two who shouldwe be listening to?
Speaker 1 (35:41):
we be listening to Yourself.
I think we need more time forpeople to be in reflection and
really discernment, not onlyaround what they want for their
own lives, but their own desiresfor their purpose in the work
that they do and how they buildthat connection for themselves,
not wait for someone to build itfor them.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I love that, I love that response and in this, you
know, especially in this, inthis world there's there's a lot
of external noise and externalfactors and influences and I
think the people that can getreflective and quiet.
You know that's necessary for anumber of reasons.
All right, last question howcan our listeners connect with
(36:27):
you and how can they get theirhands on the book?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, they can go to our website, smith-monaghancom,
and that's where you'll findinformation on the book.
You will also find links to theHumanity Studio.
You can also go straight tothehumanitystudiocom and you
will find more about us and thebook.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I love it.
The book, one more time, isEssential, and the subtitle is
how Distributed Teams,generative AI and Global Shifts
are Creating a New Human-PoweredLeadership.
We will have a link to that inthe show notes.
Open up your podcast player,click in and get your hands on
the book.
(37:13):
Christy, just an absolutelywonderful conversation.
Thank you for putting in thetime and energy to put this
content out there and appreciateyour work.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
Thank you, kyle, really had a great time.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast, Twitter at RebelGuy,
or see our website atRebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by RebelHR Podcast are
those of the authors and do notnecessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
(37:50):
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Baby.
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