February 5, 2025 • 34 mins
Unlock the secret to achieving more by doing less as Peggy Sullivan, author of "Beyond Busyness: How to Achieve More by Doing Less," joins us for an enlightening conversation. Ever felt like busyness is more of an addiction than a necessity? Peggy shares her journey and strategies to break free from this cycle. Learn how identifying and eliminating low-value activities can enhance productivity and fulfillment, and discover how happiness can be harnessed as a superpower to boost focus and clarity throughout your day.
Discover how small, intentional changes can combat time poverty and revolutionize your approach to self-care. We highlight a powerful story of a single mother and CFO who transformed her life by dedicating just 15 minutes a day to herself. By examining the societal pressures to constantly hustle, we explore how focusing on high-value activities and aligning tasks with personal values can lead to healthier, more meaningful experiences.
Challenge societal norms with Peggy as we advocate for less busyness and more meaningful connections. Embrace rebellion and self-improvement with insights from her book, backed by endorsements from figures like Mel Robbins. Learn about the power of collaboration and the potential it unlocks within us and our teams. Connect with Peggy for further growth opportunities and discover how her passion for helping others thrive can inspire positive changes in your life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo1Bmz8q-BM&feature=youtu.be
https://www.peggysullivanspeaker.com/
https://www.peggysullivanspeaker.com/beyond-busyness
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
All right, welcome back, rebelHR community.
I am going to be extremelyexcited about this conversation.
Today With us we have PeggySullivan.
She is a busyness addict andauthor of the brand new book
(00:26):
available now Beyond Busynesshow to Achieve More by Doing
Less.
She is also a consultant andspeaker, and we are going to
talk all about how to achievemore by doing less today.
Peggy, thank you so much forjoining us.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm excited to be here.
New year, new possibilities.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
New year, new you.
Everybody's saying that andit's funny, you know.
I think the recording of thispodcast is timed fairly
appropriately.
I have a feeling many of us aretrying to find balance and that
, in some way, shape or form, issome of the resolutions that
we've made for 2025.
Certainly, that's some of mygoals, but I think so often we
(01:12):
talk about that, we talk about,we throw around these terms like
work-life balance, and we talkabout terms like you know,
focusing on what matters, butthen we all fall back into these
patterns of just doing whatwe're used to doing, the inertia
of staying busy, and so that'swhy I think your book is really,
really powerful and I want todive into this topic today.
So I want to start off withkind of the general question
(01:35):
what motivated you to write abook about busyness and how to
change our perspective on beingbusy?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
busyness and how to change our perspective on being
busy.
I started a nonprofit about 10years ago.
I worked in corporate Americaand worked for very large
companies, had many, manysuccessful jobs, traveled the
world, made great money, and atthe end of that I took care of
my ailing father and I wanted tofigure out, after he died, what
(02:10):
I could do, what was my legacy,what was I going to do back to
the world?
And so I started off withmarket research, because I'm a
research geek and that's whereeverything begins from my
perspective.
So I asked a couple of thousandpeople what's your biggest
challenge?
And it kept on coming back Idon't have time for what's
important.
So it became very interestingto me that people were looking
(02:38):
for a how-to guide, that theyknew where they were at and what
they were doing.
Traditional time managementwasn't working.
And as I started writing thebook, I started realizing that
my whole life was a series ofraise the bar, run hard, run
fast, do more cha-ching success.
(03:01):
Raise the bar, run hard, dofast, cha-ching, you know.
And I wasn't really looking atthe price tag that it would cost
me.
I wasn't looking at happiness.
I wasn't looking at at you know, things that really lit me up
the small things, the everydaythings.
So about 10 years ago I startedoff on this journey to really
(03:26):
figure out how to not be so busyand how not to be a busyness
addict.
And I think the first thing isjust getting right past the fact
that busyness is an addiction,even though the American Medical
Association does notacknowledge it.
An addiction is anything thatkeeps you from doing what you
(03:47):
should be doing, what you needto be doing, what you want to be
doing, and for me it's anaddiction.
I can't help myself.
You know it's like crossing aleg my left foot goes over my
right every single time.
I don't even know why I'm doingit single time.
(04:08):
I don't even know why I'm doingit.
So what I found out was thatthe addiction is complicated.
But really there's a processthat you can use to mitigate the
addiction that worksbeautifully in the
organizational environment aswell as for individuals, and
it's just as simple as one, two,three and you know, step number
one in my busy busting processis about subtraction.
(04:30):
We just don't spend too muchtime on low value activities.
We just do.
You know, whether it's lookingat email for five minutes and
that five minute turns into 10,or maybe we'll multi-casting,
but it's actually taking usthree times as much time, you
(04:51):
know, or maybe we're lettinginterruptions in.
The other day, my husband'slike I was working on this
budget, I'm so into it.
My husband's like do you have aminute?
And I knew, I knew that if Isaid yes, that would be the end.
But sure enough, I said yes andthat took me a half an hour to
figure out what formula I wasworking on and where I left off.
(05:12):
And so there are lots ofreasons why we spend time on low
value activities, but most ofthem are habitual.
So I worked with dozens of HRpeople and some industrial
psychologists to identify 21areas in which we commit this
(05:34):
type of self-sabotage, and Ideveloped this tool that I call
the busy browser and a test forall of these.
And so, really, step one is,you know, getting rid of your
low value activities so you havetime for what's important.
Step two in the process getsback to happiness and how.
(05:56):
Happiness is a superpower,because when we're happy, our
brain lights up, they send usendorphins and we actually focus
more, we're clear-headed, we'rehealthier, we live longer,
we're just in a better mood.
So we tend to think oh,happiness is a definite thing.
(06:17):
I'm going to be happy when Iget the promotion, I'm going to
be happy when I get married,when I have a baby, but we don't
think about happiness as micromoments we create.
So step two is about creatingmicro moments on frigging day
long to just ignite yourhappiness muscle, and it could
(06:37):
be something as small as I am arock star, or it could be
something that I do every day.
At 11 am, I pop three pieces ofdark chocolate into my mouth, I
close my eyes and I moan withdelight, and that is just a
crazy thing I do, but it resetsme.
(06:59):
And then step three, which isprobably the hardest stuff to do
, is really using your values asa filter for every decision you
make.
So you really have to get intune with one of your values.
What's most important?
And because I'm a research geekand I started talking a lot
(07:20):
about values, every time I talkto a group asking people what
are your values, they look attheir neighbor or they Google
that, and so I got curious aboutwhat are the values that equate
to happiness and fulfillment,and what I learned is actually
that there are four.
One of them is energymanagement, then there's growth,
(07:44):
then there's growth, thenthere's authenticity.
And then the fourth value thatit ignites is what did I say?
Energy, human connection.
How can I forget humanconnection?
Because when we're busy we tendto put human connection on the
(08:05):
back burner.
And you know, like our SurgeonGeneral said, you know there's
loneliness epidemic.
One in every 10 people arelonely on a weekly basis, one in
every three on a daily basis,and it's equivalent to smoking
12 cigarettes a day.
(08:25):
So you know, it's really for meas easy as one, two, three
eliminate this low value stuff.
Make sure you're doing thingsthat make you happy, tiny little
things that don't cost time ormoney.
And then, three, get in touchwith your values, really get in
touch with them, and then keepyourself honest.
(08:47):
I can go values report card anduh, you know I am not flowing.
When there's a value I'm notflowing on, then I'll focus on
it for the next couple of days.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, yeah, I, I mean sound advice and I think, um,
as I hear that it all makes somuch sense, but just because it
makes sense doesn't mean it'seasy, right, or it sounds simple
Like, yeah, I should connectwith other people, but the
actual practice is moredifficult, and I think so many
(09:23):
people struggle with this, andso I know that you did a
significant amount of researchas you were writing this book
and just in general in yourday-to-day practice.
So can you share with us someof your findings and some of the
research that you think wouldbe particularly interesting for
this group?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I just crunched the numbers on last year's research,
so this is all fresh out of thepress, but 75% of individuals
find self-care like giving agood night's sleep a challenge.
79% of working individualsstruggle to identify their
priorities.
(10:02):
80% of the population feelsstressed, overwhelmed and
struggles with mental health.
79% have lost a sense ofpurpose.
They're why 74% struggle tomake meaningful connections and
83% of people-task is their corestrategy to get their work done
(10:27):
.
So those are pretty startling.
And I get back to this one, two,three, because you really need
to eliminate low-valueactivities If you're going to
find time for things that havemore meaning.
You have to eliminate theunimportant and you have to know
what it is.
You have to eliminate theunimportant and you have to know
what it is and you have to seta plan.
(10:50):
You know, I often, you know,tell a story about a friend of
mine who was a single mother,lives down the street and raises
three children all under 10 onher own and also is a CFO for a
very large international company.
So she's in the state of timepoverty all the time.
(11:13):
And she was like, oh my God,there's no time for self-care.
And I'm like, okay, you knowwhat?
Let's start off small.
Can you find 15 minutes a day?
Just 15 minutes?
Do one thing.
So she started off by getting 15minutes up earlier so that she
could have some peace and quiet.
She did that for a week and shefound, okay, I have to do both.
(11:36):
A micro step.
And then the next week shedecided wow, I'm going to take
15 minutes at work and I'm goingto actually take a lunch.
I always eat at my desk.
I'm going to take a lunch andfeel the sun on my face.
She did that.
She realized how much moreproductive she was.
And then the thing that she didthat helped her the most was
the 15 minutes she did beforeshe went to bed.
(11:58):
Instead of doing her to-do list, which was her habit, she
counted her blessings and whatshe was grateful for.
So there are all these littlemicro steps that you can do that
get you a little closer.
And then you're like, yeah,this works.
So I'm going to do it again,and for me it feels a lot better
(12:20):
to be healthier, happier andproductive than the alternative,
that hamster wheel that I callbusyness, and I fall back into
it all the time.
I mean, I get into time, I'mabout to launch a frigging book
and so there's lots to do and Istop myself and I remember the
(12:42):
one, two, three.
What's not important.
You know, do these happinessrituals and you know what values
are you ignoring and focus onthem.
And it really got to tell youanybody I've ever coached, every
workshop I've ever walked into.
Everybody says they're happier,healthier, but so much more
(13:05):
important.
They're more productive,they're getting more done in
less time, and that's whatreally lights us up.
Well, we can get good stuffdone and feel good about it and
aligns with who we are and whatwe want, and if a win for the
organization, that's a win.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
You know I, first of all, Iguess, maybe before I jump in, I
have so many questions, yeah,and before we hit record, I
mentioned like this is like soimportant for me, like this is
literally like a book for me, um, and so you know I, I use that,
but I use that excuse a lot Idon't have time, I don't have
(13:43):
time, I don't have time.
I got CHRO, I got to do thisstuff, I got three kids, I got
all these things going on andtrying to find five minutes to
meditate, 20 minutes to meditateno way, right.
But the reality is it's so.
Much of this is about, you know, it's about prioritizing what
actually matters and being awareof these patterns and habits.
(14:05):
But I want to talk about theterm that you used, because I
like this term, this term timepoverty.
So what is time poverty and whydo so many of us struggle with
it?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You know, I mean, normally, when we think about
poverty, we think about, youknow, lack of resources, you
know, lack of wealth.
But time is something that weall, 95% of people don't believe
they have enough time in theirday to get done what they want
to get done.
So that's a problem.
(14:39):
And so, you know, justacknowledging that we're all in
a state of time, poverty, wedon't have enough time, and that
busyness is a catalyst, becausebusyness, we're in a hustle
society.
You know, every time we getsomething down like that, a hit
of adrenaline.
You know, that doctor is sobusy I can't see him for six
(15:01):
months.
He must be good.
All of this mentality is likehustle, hustle, hustle.
The more you hustle, the betteryou do.
You know, and all thestatistics show that it's not
about the hustle, it's aboutfocus and concentration, and so
it's a very, it's a huge shiftin our paradigm for people.
(15:25):
I mean, we all love socialmedia.
It's so much fun.
Go on social media, see whatyour friends are doing.
Gosh, I looked last thismorning and one of my best
friends went to a bowling partyand I started scrolling.
It's like, oh my God, lookwho's there.
And then, before I knew it, I'mlike nope, this is a low value
activity, this is not what Ineed to be doing today.
(15:45):
Done, and it really becomes adiscipline and it becomes a
practice.
And you know, that's why I doso many workshops with so many
managers, so that it can, youknow, they can learn how to do
it.
They all of a sudden see howwell it's working and then they
(16:08):
kind of really try to promote itwithin their teams and their
groups, because what happens isproductivity goes up all of a
sudden.
I mean, I tell this story aboutthis guy I used to work with at
Blue Cross and Blue Shield.
His name was Randy and he wasthe biggest go-getter of all and
(16:29):
he was CMO and he was alwaysbeing promoted and he had this
great, big, huge opportunity, sopsyched to do it, going to
definitely get it done, and timegot away from him and he
realized he had a deadline, sohe pulled everybody in his, in
his group, into a conferenceroom and said we're gonna work
(16:50):
until we get this sucker done.
And it was the middle of winterin buffalo, new york, and about
two hours later there's a knockon the door saying there's a
snowstorm.
You cannot see two inches infront of you there's a driving
ban and Randy's like this isgreat, we're going to get this
done, I'm so excited.
(17:11):
But then he looked around theroom and he realized how worried
and exhausted his team was, andthen he started to think about
how important human connectionwas and he had this aha moment
that we're not going to work onthis project, we're just going
to connect as human beings.
I'm going to learn more aboutthese people that are sitting
(17:32):
across the table.
So they all went around andthey laughed and they cried and
they told jokes and they huggedand, lo and behold, his
departmental performance went up11% in 31 days.
11% their performance metrics.
So you know, the metrics don'tlie, the metrics tell the truth.
(17:55):
And once you give it a whirl,you try, you see how the metrics
work.
It's like this makes sense.
And I'm not a rocket scientist,I'm not the smartest of smart
people, but for me, I needprocess, I need to like when I'm
in the thick of it, I'm likeokay, what can I eliminate?
What happiness thing can I doright here, right now?
(18:18):
You know, I just gave my first10X and I got nervous and then I
went right before I got up onscale.
I was.
I was crazy nervous.
I got so nervous I I forgot mywords and I freaked out and I
thought to myself I gotta dosomething really fun right here,
right now, get out of my ownhead.
(18:39):
So I did a handstand.
I love doing handstands.
I love being upside down.
I did a handstand.
People are looking at me likewhat the heck is this woman
doing?
I get a morphine rush.
All the nerves are gone.
I walk up on stage and I havefun.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I love it.
Side note disclaimer to thepodcast audience if you're not
comfortable doing handstands, Idon't recommend you do that on a
regular basis, but Peggy isqualified evidently to me that
(19:23):
we get into this hustle andbustle and you see these, you
know like, you use social media.
So it's a great example of this, right Like, you see these
influencers and everybody lookslike they're just going a
million miles an hour andeverybody's doing all these
amazing things.
But you get sucked in this trapof thinking that you have to be
constantly on and running full,full speed and you forget to do
(19:46):
the things that really matterto you.
Right Like, connect with you,know you're, you're the people
that you care about in your life, or you know, or, or protect
your, your, your energy, or takecare of yourself, or you know,
go to the gym or have fiveminutes of peace and quiet, and
so I think it's such a valuableframework and so easy for us to
(20:10):
lose sight of.
So you know, the statistics arestartling.
I mean, you know, what I heardis we're struggling.
We are struggling as a society,as employees, and I also like.
For me, this just makes perfectlogical sense, and I've gone
(20:34):
through a lot in my personallife, kind of an awakening that,
hey, this busyness isn't theright thing for me.
All the time it ruined mypersonal relationships and I was
lonely as I could possibly be.
And I'm curious whatrecommendations would you have
(20:58):
for us who are in an HRprofession?
Our job is to help ourcompanies and I think what I'm
struggling with is I can't go tomy company and be like
everybody's got to stop workingtoo much.
We have, since the beginning ofour careers, we've been coached
(21:18):
to stay productive.
You've got to stay focused allthe time.
Every minute's got to beaccounted for, you know.
You got to make sure thatpeople are people.
But what you're saying isessentially that that's not
right.
Right, that being too busy orbeing, you know, being so
focused on filling the timeactually makes us less
(21:39):
productive.
So what advice do you have forus that are?
Maybe we understand this topic,it makes sense to us, but we've
got to like convince others tobe thinking in these terms.
What would you tell us?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
What I love to do is I love to walk into a company
and say take this busy barometer, find out what your employees
are doing.
What's the corporate culture,what are your low value
activities?
Let's run a workshop and let'seliminate those, a couple of
things.
And hey, you know, by the way,can we throw in a little bit
(22:12):
about happiness, rituals andwhat I call values vibing?
And they always say yes, so Igo in there and we do this, and
then I'm like at the end okay,so how do you measure success
here?
You know, in your department,what are your metrics?
And we'll share the metrics andthen I'll go back in a month or
two and say, okay, how do yourmetrics look?
(22:32):
And they'll be like crap.
My metrics have improved.
I'm like statistics don't lie.
So you know, if people willjust give me a little bit of
time and kind of try something alittle out there, and oh, by
the way, we're going to have aton of fun.
Everybody in that room is goingto be laughing and enjoying
(22:56):
themselves and the paradigm ofwork and play and fun, it's just
all.
The boundaries are going to becrossed because this is your
life and you're going to spendeight, nine, ten hours.
You're going to be having funand you'd better enjoy it, um.
So I always say to people takethe busy barometer.
(23:19):
Um, and I give it to peoplefree, but I don't give them all
the answers on how to eliminatetheir busyness.
But you know it starts withdata and once you see that you
are not, you are like everybodyelse and you know I go into
corporations some of theimprovement stats, they're
(23:39):
startling, they're reallystartling, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's.
I know you used the termaddiction earlier.
It's almost a disease.
As I see it, what I've observed,certainly and I've worked in
the Fortune 500 organizationactually a very similar kind of
(24:09):
story to yours, organizations,similar, actually, very similar
kind of story to yours, um, but,um, you know, you see these
people and they it's almost,they almost look sick, right,
they're, they're, they're sickwith worry, they're, they're
sick with, like, like, stayingfocused, like as an hr person, I
I can, honestly, the minute Iwalk into a room, usually people
who are, like, struggling withthis get really nervous because
(24:32):
they think I'm there to likeaudit how busy they are or audit
productivity or judge them forhow hard they appear to be
working.
But it's not really, it's likeit's not helpful.
And I you know my personalopinion and experience is as an
HR professional or a seniorleader in general to get people
(24:55):
to slow down a little bit canactually help them make
significantly better decisionsand just get them to relax a
little bit, like, hey, let'sthink about it.
I love humor.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I love to tell funny little stories to people, make
them laugh.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And kind of illustrate the point.
I mean, I had a wake-up callone time.
You know, I was working for ahealthcare company in the
Medicare field and they hadchanged a lot of regulations and
I needed to redo absolutelyeverything I've been working on
for the last 30 days and get itdone in two weeks.
So it was like holy cow.
(25:37):
This is a really hard, hard,hard thing, right?
So I'm working all the time.
I'm a single mother.
I come home from work and I amravenous.
I haven't eaten.
So I go into the cupboard andfind anything to eat and I find
this stale bag of pistachio nutsand I chop them down and I feel
this pulling on my leg and Ilook down as my cat dazzles,
(26:01):
saying I haven't eaten in acouple hours either.
So I throw him some kibbles andI go lie on the couch and I
wake up and I hear this catnoise and I look up and it's my
cat throwing up pistachio nuts.
And I look down and I realize Ijust ate cat food for dinner.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh no, I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Oh, you know it's crazy the things that we do,
because we're in this rainfall,this mindless haze.
I mean, how many times have youforgotten where your car is?
How many times have youforgotten where your glasses are
, where your keys are?
I lose my keys all the time andit's just a reminder that
(26:43):
you're not focused.
You know you need to be focused.
So I think people need to beginto not feel shame and guilt
about their busyness because,hey, it's a hustle society, it's
what we're taught.
Busyness is good, it's a statussymbol, and really what we need
is the tools.
(27:03):
And your busyness is probablydifferent than somebody else's
busyness and that's why thereisn't a one size fits all.
That's why I really believe weroll up our sleeves and we find
out what you're over the topbusy on, make you aware of it,
and then one micro step, onetiny little change, like my
(27:26):
friend did with 15 minutes.
She had no time for self-careand then you know, at the end of
four months she's spending 45minutes a day on herself, which
was like unimaginable to her.
But she's healthier, she'shappier, and then she's like
okay.
Well, you know, she did thatabout six months ago and she's
(27:47):
like okay, now I'm going to gofor an hour a day for me, and
what are we gonna do?
Fun with that extra 15 minutes.
And you start to see howmagical it is and you're like
this, this stuff, it's likefairy dust, it's like magic dust
.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It just you'll do it, it works, and then you'll do it
again absolutely, and I thinkyou know, I, I, you know, I I've
had, I haven't eaten cat food.
I'm going to put that out there.
That's thankfully, but I don'thave cats, so I haven't had the
opportunity to eat cat.
Of the more humanistic jobs,like we're paid to think and
(28:35):
we're paid to help people, andif we aren't helping ourselves
and we're not like having gooddecision-making capability,
we're not taking care of, likeour ability to connect, reflect,
you know, have a little bit offun.
Oh my gosh, how dare us, youknow, how dare we talk about
having fun at work, like, like,what are we doing?
You know what I mean.
(28:55):
Like, like, like, what wouldyou say you do here?
Yeah, and, and so I, just, I, Ilove the, I, I love the
framework, I love the, I lovethat you put this into tools and
that it's not overwhelming,right, you know?
Because, to go back to ourconversation on time poverty,
what you're really talking aboutjust carving out a little bit,
right, and starting to changehabits, and that's really where,
(29:19):
like all the research, that'swhere the change actually
happens, right, it's theselittle kind of micro things that
we do that eventually add up toa big change over time, right?
And so one last call again tothe listeners there.
The book is available now.
Go out, click into the podcastshow notes.
(29:40):
The book again is BeyondBusyness how to Achieve More by
Doing Less.
With that, we're going to shiftinto the Rebel HR flash round.
Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
All right, perfect.
Question number one when do weneed to rebel?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Oh, I color outside the lines all the time.
I think it's just really a funthing to do, so I rebel in any
way that feels comfortable forme.
You know I'll eat ice cream fordinner.
You know I'll be the one whostops drinking for three years.
I, I, I just like doing new anddifferent things and seeing how
(30:23):
they feel.
So you know, to me, coloringoutside the lines is what makes
my blood boil, which is a goodthing.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Well, I love it.
I'm the same way.
I'm like every once in a whileI just get bored.
I'm like I'm just going to trythis weird random diet.
Like I went vegetarian for ayear.
I'm like I'm just going to seeif I can do it and see what it
does, and then I stopped becauseI'm like okay, I'm bored with
this now.
So I think we're wiredsimilarly in that regard.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Question number two who should we be listening to?
Well, I'm a big Mel Robbins fan, and she said a couple of
things over the years that havestuck with me.
And one of the things that shesays is nobody's coming here to
save you, you need to saveyourself.
And she said something on theMaria Shriver podcast I think it
(31:19):
was two weeks ago thatresonated with me so much and it
was like I'm finally lettingmyself feel a sense of pride.
I'm thinking to myself you'refreaking, mel Robbins.
What You're not proud.
I mean, like you've been onOprah, you've done all these.
How can you?
And it just made me realizethat you know, the self-sabotage
(31:43):
that we all do to ourselves isexactly that.
So I'm a big Mel Robbins fanand oh yeah, by the way, she
endorsed my book.
I was the person that ran outin the middle of the street
literally when I got herendorsement.
It was like at one in themorning.
And I'm like Mel, my blankRobbins, just endorsed my book.
(32:07):
And like somebody turns on thelights and comes outside like
what the heck is going on?
And something on fire and I'mlike, oh no, no.
Mel robbins just endorsed mybook I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I love it, yeah, and I, I'm a, I also.
I follow mel robbins as welland just absolutely, you know
wonderful content, yeah, andit's great, great point like,
yeah, if mel robbins struggleswith imposter syndrome from time
to time or feeling accomplished, then my gosh, what a little
old me you know doing.
But I think, yeah, andcongratulations, by the way, on
(32:41):
that endorsement, that's amazing.
And yeah, just reallyappreciate the time that you
spent with us here, peggy, andappreciate you putting this
content out there.
Last question how can ourlisteners get their hands on the
book and how can they connectwith you to learn more about the
work that you do?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I mean they can connect with me on LinkedIn or
go right to my website,peggysullivanspeakercom.
I love meeting new people, Ilove helping people, I love
shifting the paradigm and makingpeople look good.
So if you give me a chance, Ithink you'll find that together
we could do pretty amazingthings.
(33:23):
And it's about we.
It's not the power of me.
It's about igniting thepossibility within ourselves,
our teams, everybody around us.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Absolutely.
Couldn't agree more.
Open up your podcast players.
We will have all of those linksin the show notes.
Get your hands on the book andconnect with Peggy Peggy.
Thank you so much for joiningme here today and thank you for
the work that you do.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
You are quite welcome .
Speaker 2 (33:55):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast, twitter at Rebel HR
guy, or see our website atRebelHumanResourcescom at
RebelHRGuy, or see our websiteat RebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR Podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
(34:17):
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Baby.
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
All right, welcome back, rebelHR community.
I am going to be extremelyexcited about this conversation.
Today With us we have PeggySullivan.
She is a busyness addict andauthor of the brand new book
(00:26):
available now Beyond Busynesshow to Achieve More by Doing
Less.
She is also a consultant andspeaker, and we are going to
talk all about how to achievemore by doing less today.
Peggy, thank you so much forjoining us.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm excited to be here.
New year, new possibilities.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
New year, new you.
Everybody's saying that andit's funny, you know.
I think the recording of thispodcast is timed fairly
appropriately.
I have a feeling many of us aretrying to find balance and that
, in some way, shape or form, issome of the resolutions that
we've made for 2025.
Certainly, that's some of mygoals, but I think so often we
(01:12):
talk about that, we talk about,we throw around these terms like
work-life balance, and we talkabout terms like you know,
focusing on what matters, butthen we all fall back into these
patterns of just doing whatwe're used to doing, the inertia
of staying busy, and so that'swhy I think your book is really,
really powerful and I want todive into this topic today.
So I want to start off withkind of the general question
(01:35):
what motivated you to write abook about busyness and how to
change our perspective on beingbusy?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
busyness and how to change our perspective on being
busy.
I started a nonprofit about 10years ago.
I worked in corporate Americaand worked for very large
companies, had many, manysuccessful jobs, traveled the
world, made great money, and atthe end of that I took care of
my ailing father and I wanted tofigure out, after he died, what
(02:10):
I could do, what was my legacy,what was I going to do back to
the world?
And so I started off withmarket research, because I'm a
research geek and that's whereeverything begins from my
perspective.
So I asked a couple of thousandpeople what's your biggest
challenge?
And it kept on coming back Idon't have time for what's
important.
So it became very interestingto me that people were looking
(02:38):
for a how-to guide, that theyknew where they were at and what
they were doing.
Traditional time managementwasn't working.
And as I started writing thebook, I started realizing that
my whole life was a series ofraise the bar, run hard, run
fast, do more cha-ching success.
(03:01):
Raise the bar, run hard, dofast, cha-ching, you know.
And I wasn't really looking atthe price tag that it would cost
me.
I wasn't looking at happiness.
I wasn't looking at at you know, things that really lit me up
the small things, the everydaythings.
So about 10 years ago I startedoff on this journey to really
(03:26):
figure out how to not be so busyand how not to be a busyness
addict.
And I think the first thing isjust getting right past the fact
that busyness is an addiction,even though the American Medical
Association does notacknowledge it.
An addiction is anything thatkeeps you from doing what you
(03:47):
should be doing, what you needto be doing, what you want to be
doing, and for me it's anaddiction.
I can't help myself.
You know it's like crossing aleg my left foot goes over my
right every single time.
I don't even know why I'm doingit single time.
(04:08):
I don't even know why I'm doingit.
So what I found out was thatthe addiction is complicated.
But really there's a processthat you can use to mitigate the
addiction that worksbeautifully in the
organizational environment aswell as for individuals, and
it's just as simple as one, two,three and you know, step number
one in my busy busting processis about subtraction.
(04:30):
We just don't spend too muchtime on low value activities.
We just do.
You know, whether it's lookingat email for five minutes and
that five minute turns into 10,or maybe we'll multi-casting,
but it's actually taking usthree times as much time, you
(04:51):
know, or maybe we're lettinginterruptions in.
The other day, my husband'slike I was working on this
budget, I'm so into it.
My husband's like do you have aminute?
And I knew, I knew that if Isaid yes, that would be the end.
But sure enough, I said yes andthat took me a half an hour to
figure out what formula I wasworking on and where I left off.
(05:12):
And so there are lots ofreasons why we spend time on low
value activities, but most ofthem are habitual.
So I worked with dozens of HRpeople and some industrial
psychologists to identify 21areas in which we commit this
(05:34):
type of self-sabotage, and Ideveloped this tool that I call
the busy browser and a test forall of these.
And so, really, step one is,you know, getting rid of your
low value activities so you havetime for what's important.
Step two in the process getsback to happiness and how.
(05:56):
Happiness is a superpower,because when we're happy, our
brain lights up, they send usendorphins and we actually focus
more, we're clear-headed, we'rehealthier, we live longer,
we're just in a better mood.
So we tend to think oh,happiness is a definite thing.
(06:17):
I'm going to be happy when Iget the promotion, I'm going to
be happy when I get married,when I have a baby, but we don't
think about happiness as micromoments we create.
So step two is about creatingmicro moments on frigging day
long to just ignite yourhappiness muscle, and it could
(06:37):
be something as small as I am arock star, or it could be
something that I do every day.
At 11 am, I pop three pieces ofdark chocolate into my mouth, I
close my eyes and I moan withdelight, and that is just a
crazy thing I do, but it resetsme.
(06:59):
And then step three, which isprobably the hardest stuff to do
, is really using your values asa filter for every decision you
make.
So you really have to get intune with one of your values.
What's most important?
And because I'm a research geekand I started talking a lot
(07:20):
about values, every time I talkto a group asking people what
are your values, they look attheir neighbor or they Google
that, and so I got curious aboutwhat are the values that equate
to happiness and fulfillment,and what I learned is actually
that there are four.
One of them is energymanagement, then there's growth,
(07:44):
then there's growth, thenthere's authenticity.
And then the fourth value thatit ignites is what did I say?
Energy, human connection.
How can I forget humanconnection?
Because when we're busy we tendto put human connection on the
(08:05):
back burner.
And you know, like our SurgeonGeneral said, you know there's
loneliness epidemic.
One in every 10 people arelonely on a weekly basis, one in
every three on a daily basis,and it's equivalent to smoking
12 cigarettes a day.
(08:25):
So you know, it's really for meas easy as one, two, three
eliminate this low value stuff.
Make sure you're doing thingsthat make you happy, tiny little
things that don't cost time ormoney.
And then, three, get in touchwith your values, really get in
touch with them, and then keepyourself honest.
(08:47):
I can go values report card anduh, you know I am not flowing.
When there's a value I'm notflowing on, then I'll focus on
it for the next couple of days.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, yeah, I, I mean sound advice and I think, um,
as I hear that it all makes somuch sense, but just because it
makes sense doesn't mean it'seasy, right, or it sounds simple
Like, yeah, I should connectwith other people, but the
actual practice is moredifficult, and I think so many
(09:23):
people struggle with this, andso I know that you did a
significant amount of researchas you were writing this book
and just in general in yourday-to-day practice.
So can you share with us someof your findings and some of the
research that you think wouldbe particularly interesting for
this group?
Speaker 1 (09:42):
I just crunched the numbers on last year's research,
so this is all fresh out of thepress, but 75% of individuals
find self-care like giving agood night's sleep a challenge.
79% of working individualsstruggle to identify their
priorities.
(10:02):
80% of the population feelsstressed, overwhelmed and
struggles with mental health.
79% have lost a sense ofpurpose.
They're why 74% struggle tomake meaningful connections and
83% of people-task is their corestrategy to get their work done
(10:27):
.
So those are pretty startling.
And I get back to this one, two,three, because you really need
to eliminate low-valueactivities If you're going to
find time for things that havemore meaning.
You have to eliminate theunimportant and you have to know
what it is.
You have to eliminate theunimportant and you have to know
what it is and you have to seta plan.
(10:50):
You know, I often, you know,tell a story about a friend of
mine who was a single mother,lives down the street and raises
three children all under 10 onher own and also is a CFO for a
very large international company.
So she's in the state of timepoverty all the time.
(11:13):
And she was like, oh my God,there's no time for self-care.
And I'm like, okay, you knowwhat?
Let's start off small.
Can you find 15 minutes a day?
Just 15 minutes?
Do one thing.
So she started off by getting 15minutes up earlier so that she
could have some peace and quiet.
She did that for a week and shefound, okay, I have to do both.
(11:36):
A micro step.
And then the next week shedecided wow, I'm going to take
15 minutes at work and I'm goingto actually take a lunch.
I always eat at my desk.
I'm going to take a lunch andfeel the sun on my face.
She did that.
She realized how much moreproductive she was.
And then the thing that she didthat helped her the most was
the 15 minutes she did beforeshe went to bed.
(11:58):
Instead of doing her to-do list, which was her habit, she
counted her blessings and whatshe was grateful for.
So there are all these littlemicro steps that you can do that
get you a little closer.
And then you're like, yeah,this works.
So I'm going to do it again,and for me it feels a lot better
(12:20):
to be healthier, happier andproductive than the alternative,
that hamster wheel that I callbusyness, and I fall back into
it all the time.
I mean, I get into time, I'mabout to launch a frigging book
and so there's lots to do and Istop myself and I remember the
(12:42):
one, two, three.
What's not important.
You know, do these happinessrituals and you know what values
are you ignoring and focus onthem.
And it really got to tell youanybody I've ever coached, every
workshop I've ever walked into.
Everybody says they're happier,healthier, but so much more
(13:05):
important.
They're more productive,they're getting more done in
less time, and that's whatreally lights us up.
Well, we can get good stuffdone and feel good about it and
aligns with who we are and whatwe want, and if a win for the
organization, that's a win.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
You know I, first of all, Iguess, maybe before I jump in, I
have so many questions, yeah,and before we hit record, I
mentioned like this is like soimportant for me, like this is
literally like a book for me, um, and so you know I, I use that,
but I use that excuse a lot Idon't have time, I don't have
(13:43):
time, I don't have time.
I got CHRO, I got to do thisstuff, I got three kids, I got
all these things going on andtrying to find five minutes to
meditate, 20 minutes to meditateno way, right.
But the reality is it's so.
Much of this is about, you know, it's about prioritizing what
actually matters and being awareof these patterns and habits.
(14:05):
But I want to talk about theterm that you used, because I
like this term, this term timepoverty.
So what is time poverty and whydo so many of us struggle with
it?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
You know, I mean, normally, when we think about
poverty, we think about, youknow, lack of resources, you
know, lack of wealth.
But time is something that weall, 95% of people don't believe
they have enough time in theirday to get done what they want
to get done.
So that's a problem.
(14:39):
And so, you know, justacknowledging that we're all in
a state of time, poverty, wedon't have enough time, and that
busyness is a catalyst, becausebusyness, we're in a hustle
society.
You know, every time we getsomething down like that, a hit
of adrenaline.
You know, that doctor is sobusy I can't see him for six
(15:01):
months.
He must be good.
All of this mentality is likehustle, hustle, hustle.
The more you hustle, the betteryou do.
You know, and all thestatistics show that it's not
about the hustle, it's aboutfocus and concentration, and so
it's a very, it's a huge shiftin our paradigm for people.
(15:25):
I mean, we all love socialmedia.
It's so much fun.
Go on social media, see whatyour friends are doing.
Gosh, I looked last thismorning and one of my best
friends went to a bowling partyand I started scrolling.
It's like, oh my God, lookwho's there.
And then, before I knew it, I'mlike nope, this is a low value
activity, this is not what Ineed to be doing today.
(15:45):
Done, and it really becomes adiscipline and it becomes a
practice.
And you know, that's why I doso many workshops with so many
managers, so that it can, youknow, they can learn how to do
it.
They all of a sudden see howwell it's working and then they
(16:08):
kind of really try to promote itwithin their teams and their
groups, because what happens isproductivity goes up all of a
sudden.
I mean, I tell this story aboutthis guy I used to work with at
Blue Cross and Blue Shield.
His name was Randy and he wasthe biggest go-getter of all and
(16:29):
he was CMO and he was alwaysbeing promoted and he had this
great, big, huge opportunity, sopsyched to do it, going to
definitely get it done, and timegot away from him and he
realized he had a deadline, sohe pulled everybody in his, in
his group, into a conferenceroom and said we're gonna work
(16:50):
until we get this sucker done.
And it was the middle of winterin buffalo, new york, and about
two hours later there's a knockon the door saying there's a
snowstorm.
You cannot see two inches infront of you there's a driving
ban and Randy's like this isgreat, we're going to get this
done, I'm so excited.
(17:11):
But then he looked around theroom and he realized how worried
and exhausted his team was, andthen he started to think about
how important human connectionwas and he had this aha moment
that we're not going to work onthis project, we're just going
to connect as human beings.
I'm going to learn more aboutthese people that are sitting
(17:32):
across the table.
So they all went around andthey laughed and they cried and
they told jokes and they huggedand, lo and behold, his
departmental performance went up11% in 31 days.
11% their performance metrics.
So you know, the metrics don'tlie, the metrics tell the truth.
(17:55):
And once you give it a whirl,you try, you see how the metrics
work.
It's like this makes sense.
And I'm not a rocket scientist,I'm not the smartest of smart
people, but for me, I needprocess, I need to like when I'm
in the thick of it, I'm likeokay, what can I eliminate?
What happiness thing can I doright here, right now?
(18:18):
You know, I just gave my first10X and I got nervous and then I
went right before I got up onscale.
I was.
I was crazy nervous.
I got so nervous I I forgot mywords and I freaked out and I
thought to myself I gotta dosomething really fun right here,
right now, get out of my ownhead.
(18:39):
So I did a handstand.
I love doing handstands.
I love being upside down.
I did a handstand.
People are looking at me likewhat the heck is this woman
doing?
I get a morphine rush.
All the nerves are gone.
I walk up on stage and I havefun.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I love it.
Side note disclaimer to thepodcast audience if you're not
comfortable doing handstands, Idon't recommend you do that on a
regular basis, but Peggy isqualified evidently to me that
(19:23):
we get into this hustle andbustle and you see these, you
know like, you use social media.
So it's a great example of this, right Like, you see these
influencers and everybody lookslike they're just going a
million miles an hour andeverybody's doing all these
amazing things.
But you get sucked in this trapof thinking that you have to be
constantly on and running full,full speed and you forget to do
(19:46):
the things that really matterto you.
Right Like, connect with you,know you're, you're the people
that you care about in your life, or you know, or, or protect
your, your, your energy, or takecare of yourself, or you know,
go to the gym or have fiveminutes of peace and quiet, and
so I think it's such a valuableframework and so easy for us to
(20:10):
lose sight of.
So you know, the statistics arestartling.
I mean, you know, what I heardis we're struggling.
We are struggling as a society,as employees, and I also like.
For me, this just makes perfectlogical sense, and I've gone
(20:34):
through a lot in my personallife, kind of an awakening that,
hey, this busyness isn't theright thing for me.
All the time it ruined mypersonal relationships and I was
lonely as I could possibly be.
And I'm curious whatrecommendations would you have
(20:58):
for us who are in an HRprofession?
Our job is to help ourcompanies and I think what I'm
struggling with is I can't go tomy company and be like
everybody's got to stop workingtoo much.
We have, since the beginning ofour careers, we've been coached
(21:18):
to stay productive.
You've got to stay focused allthe time.
Every minute's got to beaccounted for, you know.
You got to make sure thatpeople are people.
But what you're saying isessentially that that's not
right.
Right, that being too busy orbeing, you know, being so
focused on filling the timeactually makes us less
(21:39):
productive.
So what advice do you have forus that are?
Maybe we understand this topic,it makes sense to us, but we've
got to like convince others tobe thinking in these terms.
What would you tell us?
Speaker 1 (21:50):
What I love to do is I love to walk into a company
and say take this busy barometer, find out what your employees
are doing.
What's the corporate culture,what are your low value
activities?
Let's run a workshop and let'seliminate those, a couple of
things.
And hey, you know, by the way,can we throw in a little bit
(22:12):
about happiness, rituals andwhat I call values vibing?
And they always say yes, so Igo in there and we do this, and
then I'm like at the end okay,so how do you measure success
here?
You know, in your department,what are your metrics?
And we'll share the metrics andthen I'll go back in a month or
two and say, okay, how do yourmetrics look?
(22:32):
And they'll be like crap.
My metrics have improved.
I'm like statistics don't lie.
So you know, if people willjust give me a little bit of
time and kind of try something alittle out there, and oh, by
the way, we're going to have aton of fun.
Everybody in that room is goingto be laughing and enjoying
(22:56):
themselves and the paradigm ofwork and play and fun, it's just
all.
The boundaries are going to becrossed because this is your
life and you're going to spendeight, nine, ten hours.
You're going to be having funand you'd better enjoy it, um.
So I always say to people takethe busy barometer.
(23:19):
Um, and I give it to peoplefree, but I don't give them all
the answers on how to eliminatetheir busyness.
But you know it starts withdata and once you see that you
are not, you are like everybodyelse and you know I go into
corporations some of theimprovement stats, they're
(23:39):
startling, they're reallystartling, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's.
I know you used the termaddiction earlier.
It's almost a disease.
As I see it, what I've observed,certainly and I've worked in
the Fortune 500 organizationactually a very similar kind of
(24:09):
story to yours, organizations,similar, actually, very similar
kind of story to yours, um, but,um, you know, you see these
people and they it's almost,they almost look sick, right,
they're, they're, they're sickwith worry, they're, they're
sick with, like, like, stayingfocused, like as an hr person, I
I can, honestly, the minute Iwalk into a room, usually people
who are, like, struggling withthis get really nervous because
(24:32):
they think I'm there to likeaudit how busy they are or audit
productivity or judge them forhow hard they appear to be
working.
But it's not really, it's likeit's not helpful.
And I you know my personalopinion and experience is as an
HR professional or a seniorleader in general to get people
(24:55):
to slow down a little bit canactually help them make
significantly better decisionsand just get them to relax a
little bit, like, hey, let'sthink about it.
I love humor.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I love to tell funny little stories to people, make
them laugh.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
And kind of illustrate the point.
I mean, I had a wake-up callone time.
You know, I was working for ahealthcare company in the
Medicare field and they hadchanged a lot of regulations and
I needed to redo absolutelyeverything I've been working on
for the last 30 days and get itdone in two weeks.
So it was like holy cow.
(25:37):
This is a really hard, hard,hard thing, right?
So I'm working all the time.
I'm a single mother.
I come home from work and I amravenous.
I haven't eaten.
So I go into the cupboard andfind anything to eat and I find
this stale bag of pistachio nutsand I chop them down and I feel
this pulling on my leg and Ilook down as my cat dazzles,
(26:01):
saying I haven't eaten in acouple hours either.
So I throw him some kibbles andI go lie on the couch and I
wake up and I hear this catnoise and I look up and it's my
cat throwing up pistachio nuts.
And I look down and I realize Ijust ate cat food for dinner.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Oh no, I didn't even realize that.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Oh, you know it's crazy the things that we do,
because we're in this rainfall,this mindless haze.
I mean, how many times have youforgotten where your car is?
How many times have youforgotten where your glasses are
, where your keys are?
I lose my keys all the time andit's just a reminder that
(26:43):
you're not focused.
You know you need to be focused.
So I think people need to beginto not feel shame and guilt
about their busyness because,hey, it's a hustle society, it's
what we're taught.
Busyness is good, it's a statussymbol, and really what we need
is the tools.
(27:03):
And your busyness is probablydifferent than somebody else's
busyness and that's why thereisn't a one size fits all.
That's why I really believe weroll up our sleeves and we find
out what you're over the topbusy on, make you aware of it,
and then one micro step, onetiny little change, like my
(27:26):
friend did with 15 minutes.
She had no time for self-careand then you know, at the end of
four months she's spending 45minutes a day on herself, which
was like unimaginable to her.
But she's healthier, she'shappier, and then she's like
okay.
Well, you know, she did thatabout six months ago and she's
(27:47):
like okay, now I'm going to gofor an hour a day for me, and
what are we gonna do?
Fun with that extra 15 minutes.
And you start to see howmagical it is and you're like
this, this stuff, it's likefairy dust, it's like magic dust
.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
It just you'll do it, it works, and then you'll do it
again absolutely, and I thinkyou know, I, I, you know, I I've
had, I haven't eaten cat food.
I'm going to put that out there.
That's thankfully, but I don'thave cats, so I haven't had the
opportunity to eat cat.
Of the more humanistic jobs,like we're paid to think and
(28:35):
we're paid to help people, andif we aren't helping ourselves
and we're not like having gooddecision-making capability,
we're not taking care of, likeour ability to connect, reflect,
you know, have a little bit offun.
Oh my gosh, how dare us, youknow, how dare we talk about
having fun at work, like, like,what are we doing?
You know what I mean.
(28:55):
Like, like, like, what wouldyou say you do here?
Yeah, and, and so I, just, I, Ilove the, I, I love the
framework, I love the, I lovethat you put this into tools and
that it's not overwhelming,right, you know?
Because, to go back to ourconversation on time poverty,
what you're really talking aboutjust carving out a little bit,
right, and starting to changehabits, and that's really where,
(29:19):
like all the research, that'swhere the change actually
happens, right, it's theselittle kind of micro things that
we do that eventually add up toa big change over time, right?
And so one last call again tothe listeners there.
The book is available now.
Go out, click into the podcastshow notes.
(29:40):
The book again is BeyondBusyness how to Achieve More by
Doing Less.
With that, we're going to shiftinto the Rebel HR flash round.
Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
All right, perfect.
Question number one when do weneed to rebel?
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Oh, I color outside the lines all the time.
I think it's just really a funthing to do, so I rebel in any
way that feels comfortable forme.
You know I'll eat ice cream fordinner.
You know I'll be the one whostops drinking for three years.
I, I, I just like doing new anddifferent things and seeing how
(30:23):
they feel.
So you know, to me, coloringoutside the lines is what makes
my blood boil, which is a goodthing.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Well, I love it.
I'm the same way.
I'm like every once in a whileI just get bored.
I'm like I'm just going to trythis weird random diet.
Like I went vegetarian for ayear.
I'm like I'm just going to seeif I can do it and see what it
does, and then I stopped becauseI'm like okay, I'm bored with
this now.
So I think we're wiredsimilarly in that regard.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
Question number two who should we be listening to?
Well, I'm a big Mel Robbins fan, and she said a couple of
things over the years that havestuck with me.
And one of the things that shesays is nobody's coming here to
save you, you need to saveyourself.
And she said something on theMaria Shriver podcast I think it
(31:19):
was two weeks ago thatresonated with me so much and it
was like I'm finally lettingmyself feel a sense of pride.
I'm thinking to myself you'refreaking, mel Robbins.
What You're not proud.
I mean, like you've been onOprah, you've done all these.
How can you?
And it just made me realizethat you know, the self-sabotage
(31:43):
that we all do to ourselves isexactly that.
So I'm a big Mel Robbins fanand oh yeah, by the way, she
endorsed my book.
I was the person that ran outin the middle of the street
literally when I got herendorsement.
It was like at one in themorning.
And I'm like Mel, my blankRobbins, just endorsed my book.
(32:07):
And like somebody turns on thelights and comes outside like
what the heck is going on?
And something on fire and I'mlike, oh no, no.
Mel robbins just endorsed mybook I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I love it, yeah, and I, I'm a, I also.
I follow mel robbins as welland just absolutely, you know
wonderful content, yeah, andit's great, great point like,
yeah, if mel robbins struggleswith imposter syndrome from time
to time or feeling accomplished, then my gosh, what a little
old me you know doing.
But I think, yeah, andcongratulations, by the way, on
(32:41):
that endorsement, that's amazing.
And yeah, just reallyappreciate the time that you
spent with us here, peggy, andappreciate you putting this
content out there.
Last question how can ourlisteners get their hands on the
book and how can they connectwith you to learn more about the
work that you do?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I mean they can connect with me on LinkedIn or
go right to my website,peggysullivanspeakercom.
I love meeting new people, Ilove helping people, I love
shifting the paradigm and makingpeople look good.
So if you give me a chance, Ithink you'll find that together
we could do pretty amazingthings.
(33:23):
And it's about we.
It's not the power of me.
It's about igniting thepossibility within ourselves,
our teams, everybody around us.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Absolutely.
Couldn't agree more.
Open up your podcast players.
We will have all of those linksin the show notes.
Get your hands on the book andconnect with Peggy Peggy.
Thank you so much for joiningme here today and thank you for
the work that you do.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
You are quite welcome .
Speaker 2 (33:55):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast, twitter at Rebel HR
guy, or see our website atRebelHumanResourcescom at
RebelHRGuy, or see our websiteat RebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR Podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
(34:17):
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Baby.
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