March 12, 2025 • 31 mins
Ever wondered how your self-perception might be the key to your success? Join us as we explore this intriguing relationship with best-selling author Ben Eden, who shares transformative insights from his book, "How We See Ourselves." As an HR executive, Ben discusses his personal journey of overcoming societal pressures and the challenges of being defined by professional roles. Discover how understanding self-worth beyond career identities can lead to profound professional achievements and personal happiness.
As the role of HR evolves in the age of AI, there's an urgent need for HR professionals to redefine themselves as strategic business experts. Drawing inspiration from a recent meeting with Johnny C Taylor, we delve into how HR can take ownership of AI integration within organizations. This shift in mindset is crucial for confident decision-making and positioning HR as an essential component of organizational strategy. Personal reflections and insights on approaching HR with a holistic perspective offer invaluable guidance for navigating this dynamic landscape.
The challenge of maintaining authenticity while adapting to others' perceptions is a common struggle for many HR professionals. By embracing self-awareness and introspection, individuals can discover their true selves beyond professional roles, leading to enhanced personal satisfaction and career success. Ben Eden shares personal anecdotes that highlight the power of authenticity in the workplace. As we wrap up, we invite listeners to connect with Ben and explore additional resources for personal growth and fulfillment.
Ben’s Profile
https://howweseeourselves.com/
Website
- reachyourultimatepotential.com (Company)
Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work. Please connect to continue the conversation!
https://twitter.com/rebelhrguy
https://www.facebook.com/rebelhrpodcast
http://www.kyleroed.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-roed/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back, rebel HRcommunity.
We are going to have a funconversation today.
We have somebody who is a likeminded individual as myself.
(00:23):
His name is Ben Eden.
Ben is a best-selling author ofa book that is available now
how we See Ourselves.
We're going to be talking allabout how we can use how we see
ourselves to be successful intoday's world.
Ben, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, kyle.
Happy to be here.
Well, I'm super happy that youare here.
(00:44):
Finally, we connected probablyalmost five years ago for the
first time and I think at thatpoint I'm like this guy's
awesome, we should totally haveyou on the podcast.
And then it just didn't happen.
So I'm so happy it's it'shappening now and and um, in
that time that time, I thinkwhen we first spoke, you were
(01:06):
just starting your business andjust starting to get stuff
launched.
Congratulations on your successand congratulations on this
book.
I'm really excited to talkabout it today and just excited
to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Thank you so much.
Yes, it's definitely been ajourney, but a fun one.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, likewise, a lot has happened in the last five
years.
I don't even think I'm the samehuman that you spoke to five
years ago.
I think that's most of usthrough COVID, right, yeah?
So I want to ask you thequestion I ask all authors,
which is you know, quite simply,what motivated you to write
this book, why this topic?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Well, I'll jump right into a short story.
Does that sound okay?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Perfect.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Awesome.
So, yeah, I mean, even growingup I never really had the idea
nor the goal to write a book,but it came to me over the last
few years and here's why thebook is called how we See
Ourselves, and it's all abouthow self-perception drives not
only the success that we achievebut the happiness we experience
along the way.
So I learned this when I was anHR executive and I had done
(02:11):
what most of the world teacheson how to achieve success.
I did the bachelor's degree, Idid the master's degree, I
became a senior certifiedprofessional.
I started as an intern, I grewto manage the department and
helped grow this company tobecome international.
Yay, success, right, yeah.
And all this was in my 20s andI'm thinking, okay, I made it.
(02:31):
But after a number of thingshappened and one day my boss
comes to me and says Ben, wehave nothing against you, we
just hate HR.
I thought, well, I'm HR, so howam I supposed to take that?
Everything that I've done inthese last few years has grown
my identity as an HRprofessional.
(02:52):
And if you say you hate that,then I understand it to mean you
hate me and everything about me.
And here's what's interestingSociety teaches us to chase
results.
I mean, if you think about itwhen you're going to school,
what are you supposed to get A's?
And if you get A's, what doesthat mean about you?
Oh, you're a smart kid, you'rean, a student, you're capable
(03:12):
and everything else.
But what if you get an F?
What does that mean about you?
Well, it means you're a failure.
At least that's how peopleinterpret it.
But the interesting thing is,an F grade does not mean failure
.
It means a failing grade.
But we don't talk about it thatway because we too quickly
identify ourselves based on theresults that we have.
(03:34):
So, learning this, even as I wasan HR executive in my 20s and
everybody's like dude, you madeit.
You got the picture perfectlife, traveling the world and
having all the things.
I was suffering in silencebecause now I thought, well, am
I?
I felt undervalued and unwantedand even a necessary evil.
Yeah, and when you feel thisway, when your confidence is
(03:55):
shot, you either underperform oryou're overcompensate.
And so I tried those things andI turned to coping mechanisms
to try to feel better.
I ultimately turned to anaddiction and of course, those
didn't work.
So I discovered therapy.
I discovered coaching changedthe way that I saw myself and
the world I saw started tochange.
(04:15):
I started to think well, holdon here.
Even though they hate HR, thatdoesn't mean I am a terrible
person.
I still have a lot of value tooffer.
And what was cool is I turnedthis around and I went to my
professional friends and I'mlike hmm, you're successful.
Have you ever felt unvalued,unwanted, not good enough?
And they're like bro, we oftenfeel this way.
(04:35):
The problem is nobody talksabout it.
So then, after four or fiveyears of coaching and it always
comes down to how they seethemselves, no matter the result
that they're going forconfidence at work, promotions,
making more money, losing weight, whatever it happens to be
always comes down to that.
I started to think oh, why am Ihave a book in here?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
yeah, so you know it's, it's.
It's funny listening to youtalk because I'm literally like,
oh well, you're describing myexperience, you know, and it's
very similar, right, and justhappened to be at the right
(05:21):
place at the right time, withthe right people around me and,
um, in the right circumstancesand, you know, found myself in a
successful HR career.
Um, and also found myselfsurrounded with people that
didn't want me there, right, youknow.
Now they liked me as as me, butthey hated my profession, they
hated what I stood for.
(05:43):
Right, like you, still got thejokes.
You know, hr is here, we can'thave, we can't have fun anymore.
Right, exactly, say what youwant to say, you know, and it's,
it's like as much as you wantto, like, you know, laugh it off
, it sucks.
Right, and and and I I wouldsay you know, from my standpoint
(06:03):
, very similar experience to you, where you question your
self-worth and you and youwonder what.
You know, who am I?
Because this is my identity.
It was my identity in manycases, in many places and and
certainly in many people's eyes,it is still my identity.
I'm that, I am literally calledthe HR guy.
You know, in like the, like mycircle, but, um, that's part of
(06:29):
what this podcast is about islike like throwing that away,
rejecting that right, rebellingagainst that, that identity.
And so I I love your approachon um self perception because I
think I think that is so muchthe root of where the problem
(06:49):
exists, and so I'm fascinated tokind of through your work and
the work you've done withclients and some of your
research and just your ownpersonal self-work.
What are the steps now thatwe're in a safe enough space to
admit this?
What are the steps where we canstart to build ourselves back
(07:11):
up from this unfair externalperception that so many people
have about us?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So we'll break this apart alittle bit and I'll give you two
stories to relate and thenwe'll get into this solution.
And, as you were mentioningbefore this episode, you know,
unfortunately media and tv showsput paint hr in a negative
light.
Right, say, the office and, andyou know, hr professionals
there, and it's terrible.
(07:37):
When I first got into hr andeverybody said that first of all
I hadn't watched the episodes,I'm like what are you talking
about?
Like who's?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Toby.
And then you watch it andyou're like, oh, come on, man,
yeah for real.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
So then that's their funny definition of HR.
And then what they see asreality is the CEO is like, ah,
they're just a cost center.
Your coworkers are like, I haveno idea what HR does.
And all the employees say, oh,hr is just a bottleneck.
So it's like well shoot,everybody thinks this.
So what am I supposed to thinkabout myself?
And unless we have a verystrong foundation, support and
(08:19):
way of locking in our strongidentity, then it's easy to
believe what people think.
Then you just go to work andsay, well, I guess I'll handle
payroll and I guess I'll docompliance and I guess I'll just
be here so you don't get sued.
Yeah, you know, and that's nofun.
Yeah, that sucks.
And you know what's interesting?
I think this is funny.
I speak to a lot of hrconferences, or yeah, hr
professionals at theseconferences.
And boy do hr professionalsparty after the conference what
(08:42):
are you talking about, ben?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I I've never seen that.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And I'm thinking well , yeah, this is the one time
they actually get to let looseand have fun.
Everywhere else they have to beHR right, totally.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
If you want to see crazy, go to an HR conference,
put HR in the wild and don't letanybody else from their company
go with them, and then justwatch it unfold.
It's fascinating, exactly.
And if you're listening to thispodcast and you don't know what
I'm talking about, you need toget out more exactly conference,
you'll see what I mean and thenI'll share a recent example.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So I've been to a few conferences with johnny c
taylor, who's the president ofnational sherm right, and he
shared a story, a few years agoactually, when he met with a
group of very high level CEOsand just asking them hey, what
do you think about your HRprofessionals and how's it going
and everything else.
And they said my HRprofessional is one of the most
important employees in mycompany.
(09:40):
The problem is they don't seethat and so powerful statement
right there.
Yeah, so some people are sayingit.
Unfortunately, a lot of us livein this situation where the
boss just doesn't appreciate it.
I do think we're makingprogress, where people are
starting to appreciate HR andbecause we're in a place in this
(10:03):
world where we are set up tostep up, if that makes sense.
Because literally last week Iwas in a meeting with Johnny C
Taylor talking about AI andhuman intelligence.
Guess what they were saying?
That AI is not a tech, not anIT problem.
(10:24):
It is an HR situation becausewe get to see how to integrate
human intelligence with all thisother intelligence that's
coming down the line and that'scrucial because we can step into
a place of extreme value on thestrategic level.
But if we have aself-perception of, well, I'm
just HR, let somebody else dealwith it, we're missing an
(10:47):
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I love that and I couldn't agree more.
We're supposed to be theexperts on how to work.
Sorry, I'm distracted.
There's somebody carrying areally cute baby outside the
window.
Anyways, talk about humanintelligence.
I'm like what is that?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And since we're going to edit this, I'm going to
pause.
Your image is frozen, but canyou hear me and see me?
Okay, I can hear you and seeyou, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It will, like the Zencaster will lag it and then
it will catch back up.
So you're good, okay, perfect,which is funny.
I'm like literally plugged inin my office fiber optic
internet, so whatever.
Anyways, no, okay, rewind, Editthis out.
(11:37):
Thank you, okay.
I could not agree more about theimportance of HR taking
ownership of things like AI.
It's a great.
It's a great like kind of acase study on like.
Hey, we need to like, own thisand become don't understand it.
We need to become the expertson it, because we're the experts
(11:59):
on how to do stuff, or weshould be right.
We should be, we should bemaking sure people understand
what their job expectations are,how we, how work is designed,
how's the org structure designand how ai fits into that in the
day-to-day, and how we canintegrate that and, oh, by the
way, how we can keep people fromfreaking out that they're not
like losing their jobs if aistarts to like.
(12:20):
There's all these differentaspects of ai that we just need
to embrace and help peoplefigure out.
Right, I'm totally, totallywith you.
That's, that's a really greatexample of like.
We have an opportunity to stepup right like.
There's so many, there's somany of those other situations
that have happened just in thelast five years.
Right, like we, like, like I.
(12:40):
I like to say all the time like, okay, if it's not us stepping
up and helping our organizationsout, then who is right?
Like we're supposed to be theexperts on people and all this,
most of this stuff.
People problems, right, or orrather, people, challenges and
opportunities for us to helpfigure out yeah, and to your
(13:01):
point, if we don't step up,guess what Somebody else will.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Who's much less qualified?
Right, right, won't solve theproblems as they need to be.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think you know,
I think the statement you madeabout those CEOs right that
where they find HR extremelyimportant is how can we take
that kind of that mindset andhow can we overlay that with our
perceptions of ourselves andhelp ourselves show up with the
(13:33):
confidence and capability tostep into that role that our
leadership team actually needsus to be stepping into?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yes, good.
So I'm going to get to thatright now.
I'm going to catch on somewords that you used, because
what I do as a coach, I meanit's very powerful.
Powerful the language that weuse, because we have so much
definition associated with thewords we use.
So, in other words, you hadsaid, hey, we are the hr experts
or we are hr.
That can have a powerfulpositive connotation.
(14:04):
It can also have a negativeconnotation I'm hr because it
has just so much weight to thatright.
Yeah, I would invite us not tojust define ourselves by I am hr
.
I would first define ourselvesas experts who do hr.
Okay, let me explain what thatmeans.
I mean, ceo has a title thatusually the weight is wow,
(14:28):
they're in charge of a bunch ofthings.
Even the title CFO often hasokay, they're the money guy,
right, but HR, as is, sometimeshas that negative connotation.
So what I would very muchencourage and this is what I
teach you first establish whoyou are, separate from that
title, separate from the role ofHR, and then you can show up as
(14:52):
the confident professional whohappens to run the HR side of
the business.
When you do that, you can cometo the room and see Kyle as Kyle
and so-and-so as so-and-so, andyou're all human beings who
happen to have a different angleon things finances, operations,
human resources, awesome.
(15:13):
And when you do that, then youseparate yourself from the
connotations, whatever they maybe, of HR and then you can say
look from my place of confidenceand expertise, here's how we
need to handle things.
It separates whether I'm goingto take it personally or not.
It allows you to make betterdecisions because it's not so
(15:33):
tied to your worth.
It says this is the bestdecision for the company and I
can say that with confidencebecause I've worked on my own
self-confidence.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I love it.
I love it and I think that,interestingly, when I got into
human resources, I did not go toschool for HR, I fell into it.
I have a business degree.
I was in operations and ITbefore human resources and I've
(16:09):
always identified myself as I'mjust I'm a business professional
that happens to do HR right,like that's kind of that's.
That's kind of how I'vedescribed myself as I've and I
would.
I would tell you that thebusiness leaders that I've
interacted with and worked withover the years have appreciated
that my perspective andperception is specifically from
a business, like a holisticbusiness lens, not just like a
(16:33):
very short-sighted, like it'sjust HR right, like a ton of
view.
But the reality is, I think somuch of that is because that's
just the identity that I'veprojected from the beginning.
Right, I'm doing the same thingthat most HR professionals do.
I'm focusing on compliance andmaking sure we're paying
equitably and fairly.
(16:54):
You know, trying to.
You know be a good coach,identify great talent, make sure
I have great recruitingpractice.
I'm doing all the same stuff,but I'm showing up in a way
where my identity is broaderthan the role that I play, right
, and so I think like anchoringto that difference of identity.
While it might seem reallysubtle, it's a big deal right.
(17:16):
And eventually, if you identifyas a certain thing, eventually
you start to believe it right,even if you don't, like,
necessarily know exactly whatthat means.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, now I'll add to that with a little example and
story.
In my book, how we SeeOurselves, I talk about what's
called the Eden model and itbreaks down sections of how our
brain works.
Most of us focus on results, sowe focus on behaviors and say,
well, since I'm HR, I have to dothis and even in business, you
have to do this to get thisresult.
(17:49):
Work more hours, whatever it is.
But we don't talk about are theemotions we experience, the
thoughts we have and everythingelse.
So the point that I'm gettingat is by using the model
correctly, which is upside downcompared to what most people
experience.
Is you not experience?
(18:14):
Is you identify yourself as youwant to be, as the person who's
going to get those results?
First?
Most people say, okay, theresult, I'm going to chase it,
but based on who I am, it's notgoing to work.
So here's the example she justread my book.
I've never coached her, but sheread my book and she's like
this is amazing, because about10 years ago she was very active
in the gym.
She had grown up being anathlete and loved being athletic
(18:35):
, but for the last eight yearsshe had struggled to go to the
gym.
She had struggled to just beactive and be proud of her body.
She had done all of theimportant things reading the
books, trying the diets, doingthe things but nothing was
working until after she read mybook and learned the importance
of identity.
(18:55):
She simply told herself I am anathlete.
And because she saw herselfthat way and believed it when
she told me this story, she hadbeen going consistently to the
gym for the last 13 weeks.
Awesome, so it's super powerful.
How we define ourselvesinfluences everything else that
(19:16):
we do.
To your point, if I'm just HR,how are you going to act?
Or if I'm a business expert whohappens to run HR, how are you
going to act differently there?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Or if you are a very confident human being who makes
a difference in this world, whohas a passion for human behavior
and how it can impact thebusiness results, who happens to
be in charge of HR.
Imagine the results that thattype of person will get.
Can you sense the difference?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, yeah it's a really, really powerful thing.
You know I think it'sfascinating and there's um, you
know there's there's a litany ofresearch around this and I know
I know you're a parent.
You know, like, if your kidsidentify as being a certain way
or not, their behavior is in, in, like, and the outcomes is
(20:06):
actually is actually drasticallydifferent, like, so you know,
if you like, like for me, like,I tell my kids, you know, we are
kind, we are roads, that's whowe are, we are kind as people.
You know that that that's areally powerful ripple effect
for them to believe Right.
And you know, hopefully, if I'mdoing everything else right,
(20:27):
hopefully they'd turn out to bekind human beings when they grow
up.
Right, like, that's that's thehope and I think it's the same.
It's that same concept thatthat so often I think we trick
ourselves into being lesseffective than we are.
Or I think the other thing I'mI'm fascinated to get your
opinion on this is I think in HRwe have a lot of people who are
people pleasers.
I think in HR we have a lot ofpeople who are people pleasers.
(20:48):
Naturally, like, people want tobe liked and so they kind of
(21:18):
modify their behavior to reflecthow people that long term,
you're going to die insideBecause you're not actually
going to be yourself, you're notactually going to be authentic,
you're going to kind of be justa wet noodle and kind of
flowing with the wind and peoplearen't going to know who you
are.
So so for those of us that aremaybe struggle with that, where
it's like you're trying to getpeople to like you or or or
(21:41):
you're aware that there's anegative perception, you're
trying to modify that.
How can we, how can we do thatwithout, like, losing our core
identity or our sense of self?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
so the question is how can you adapt to people and
enjoy being with people withoutlosing your sense of self?
Was that?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
the question.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, yeah, okay well , what it comes down to first is
the hard work of knowing whoyou are in the first place.
And I say it's hard, or can behard, because, unfortunately,
most of us have gone throughsociety being defined by our
experiences, our results and ourrelationships, and we've had to
(22:18):
change color so many times tofit the mold of wherever we are.
And it's exhausting and to yourpoint, at the end of the day,
you're like I have no idea who Iam, or I've identified myself
so much with this role becausethis role is currently working,
but then, when they considerleaving or changing their career
or changing whatever it isthey're like, there's no way I
(22:39):
can do that because I have noidea who I am outside of this
role or this title.
So it does take work and Iwon't say there's a magic answer
to it.
So it does take work and Iwon't say there's a magic answer
to it, but I would invite youto ponder after you listen to
this podcast and just ponderthis question who am I outside
of my HR role?
And you will probably.
(23:01):
It might be some seriousintrospection, you may not like
it, it may be uncomfortable andI will say, and it will be very
rewarding.
Okay, I would invite you tojournal.
Write these things down, get itout of your head and see what
you write, and if you'rethinking this wow, this is a
bunch of negative stuff.
(23:21):
Okay, awareness is first andthen we can decide well, who do
you want to be outside of yourHR role?
And that's where some powerfultransformation can occur.
Where you can add to it issupporting or surrounding
yourself with the right people.
If you have a community, bewith them.
Help, you know, be in a placewhere people can see you outside
(23:41):
of your HR role.
That helps decide an identity.
If you believe in a higherpower, you know God can tell you
those things right.
So there's a lot of elementsthat can help you understand who
you are outside of your HR role.
But it is crucial to understandthat because otherwise, back to
your point.
Sometimes we define HR as well.
I got into HR because I'm apeople person.
(24:03):
I like being with people, Iwant them to be happy at work, I
want to make the terminationnot feel so bad and it's well,
that doesn't work, yeah, soknowing who you are outside of
the HR role helps you performeven better in the HR role.
And how do you adapt to peopleWell because you understand
yourself.
(24:23):
You have a much betterunderstanding of others and you
can respond in.
You know some adaptable ways inthe how to win friends and
influence people.
Right, you can say great, Iknow how to listen, I know how
to ask questions, I know how totalk about what they like and
all of the tactics that areimportant without you having to
change who you are.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I think it's really interesting because there's so
much power in being authentic,right and so, but but we're
we're seeking something right,and and I think, in general, you
(25:12):
know that that's that's mostpeople that like are extroverted
, right, like we're just tryingto connect with others.
It's how we gain energy, it'sit's you know, it's, it can be
really really enjoyable.
But, but in order to show upfor others, you have to be able
to show up for yourself, rightlike.
You have to know who you are,and you know an example that
(25:34):
I'll use.
So you know, I used to be theguy that was like super
professional at work, like Ididn't blend personal
professional at all, and youknow, I showed up kind of, and I
played the part really well,right, but that's really what it
was.
It was like I felt like I wasan actor, right.
(25:56):
And what's interesting is,through a couple pivotal moments
and through community work,through some volunteer work, I
had a couple light bulbs go offwhere it's like hey, I want to
fight for this cause, for thisnonprofit, and I'm going to do
that and I'm not going to beashamed of it.
I'm going to share it broadlywithin the organization that I'm
doing it.
Guess what happened.
Other people started to findbenefit in that or saw me as a
(26:20):
human being, and then I wasgetting brought into other
things.
My career actually took offspecifically because I chose to
start to be kind of my myselfwithin the context of this
professional persona that I wasbuilding, and so you know, I
could not agree more that onceyou find that thing that makes
(26:42):
you tech and who you are, andyou start to do that work, good
things happen, both personallyand professionally, and for me,
it's that is kind of the secretto success and and at the end of
the day, I, I think I, I thinkyou would agree with this I
think that's how you make workmore fun and enjoyable, right,
(27:02):
when you can actually show up asyour whole self and and and and
do that work in a way thatthat's like fulfilling your own
self identity yeah, you know,that's great.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
This thought came to my mind and it's this aspect of
a different mindset, but also anelement of fun.
So try this instead ofintroducing yourself and saying
hey, I am hr, you say I am kyle,my name is kyle, I do hr.
That feels so different.
And then somebody's like whoakyle, tell me about you and not
just, oh, I'm hr.
What the heck does that mean?
(27:36):
Or I already know what thatmeans I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I one of the one of the best facilitator tricks I've
ever seen, and it's not even atrick, it's just like.
It's just who he is.
Uh, one of my, one of my dearfriends and and he's been a
guest on this podcast before hisname's Bob Kelleher.
Before he does a presentation,he literally shows a slide with
him about him and his family andhe's a family man and he talks
(28:03):
about he just talks about who heis as a human being, before he
talks about all the accoladesand he's got all the accolades
and all the books and thebestsellers and and the story
career.
But it's it's bob, the man thatgets people to buy in before
bob, the you know guy who wroteliterally wrote the book on
(28:23):
employee engagement, right, youknow, it's like that's exciting
and interesting for you know,for me, just because it's like
I'm like, wow, that's reallycool.
But I love Bob because of whoBob is, not because of what Bob
has done.
To go circle all the way back towhere we started this, right,
it's about who you are, not youraccomplishments, right, not the
(28:45):
grade that you get in school.
So I love that.
I love that, that, thatapproach, um, so so we're, we're
coming kind of, you know,towards, towards the end of our
time together.
I warned you when we hit record, I'm like we're going to just
get warmed up and then we'regoing to, then it's going to be
over, right?
Um, we're going to shift gears.
I want to, I'm fascinated toget your, to get your, uh, your
(29:12):
response to the, the rebel hrflash round.
Are you ready?
Ready, all right.
So, question number one givenwhat we've talked about, where
do we need to rebel?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
okay, yes, exactly what we're, what we've been
talking about.
You need to rebel on this waythat hr is seen but, most
importantly, how you seeyourself.
No longer define yourself asI'm just the hr guy or HR person
.
Right, I am Ben, who happens todo HR and watch what happens.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I love it.
Question number two who shouldwe be listening to?
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Broadly.
You should be listening to thepeople who believe in you and
who know who you are as a person, so that identity is super
strong.
And then, just as an example,since I brought him up in the
podcast, johnny C Taylor, hebelieves in you as a person and
what you can do.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Love it.
Final question how can ourlisteners connect with you?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
You know, go to my website howwesee see
ourselvescom.
That's where you can get a copyof the book and how you can
connect with me.
I on a lot of social media.
I do a lot of work so you canwatch me speak, you can connect
to me in some group sessions andI can help address what you're
going through and helpstrengthen that identity that
allows you to not only getbetter results but, most
(30:47):
importantly, the experiencehappiness along the way.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I love it.
We will have all thatinformation in the show notes,
so take a moment, open up yourpodcast player and click on in
the book.
Again is how we See Ourselves.
It is available now where booksare sold Best-selling title.
And congratulations again toBen on all your success and
(31:09):
thanks for spending just a fewminutes with us here today.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Thank, you so much, Kyle.
All right, that does it for theRebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR Podcast, Twitter at Rebel HR
Guy, or see our website atrebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR Podcast
(31:33):
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back, rebel HRcommunity.
We are going to have a funconversation today.
We have somebody who is a likeminded individual as myself.
(00:23):
His name is Ben Eden.
Ben is a best-selling author ofa book that is available now
how we See Ourselves.
We're going to be talking allabout how we can use how we see
ourselves to be successful intoday's world.
Ben, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much, kyle.
Happy to be here.
Well, I'm super happy that youare here.
(00:44):
Finally, we connected probablyalmost five years ago for the
first time and I think at thatpoint I'm like this guy's
awesome, we should totally haveyou on the podcast.
And then it just didn't happen.
So I'm so happy it's it'shappening now and and um, in
that time that time, I thinkwhen we first spoke, you were
(01:06):
just starting your business andjust starting to get stuff
launched.
Congratulations on your successand congratulations on this
book.
I'm really excited to talkabout it today and just excited
to have you on the show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Thank you so much.
Yes, it's definitely been ajourney, but a fun one.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, likewise, a lot has happened in the last five
years.
I don't even think I'm the samehuman that you spoke to five
years ago.
I think that's most of usthrough COVID, right, yeah?
So I want to ask you thequestion I ask all authors,
which is you know, quite simply,what motivated you to write
this book, why this topic?
Speaker 3 (01:44):
Well, I'll jump right into a short story.
Does that sound okay?
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Perfect.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Awesome.
So, yeah, I mean, even growingup I never really had the idea
nor the goal to write a book,but it came to me over the last
few years and here's why thebook is called how we See
Ourselves, and it's all abouthow self-perception drives not
only the success that we achievebut the happiness we experience
along the way.
So I learned this when I was anHR executive and I had done
(02:11):
what most of the world teacheson how to achieve success.
I did the bachelor's degree, Idid the master's degree, I
became a senior certifiedprofessional.
I started as an intern, I grewto manage the department and
helped grow this company tobecome international.
Yay, success, right, yeah.
And all this was in my 20s andI'm thinking, okay, I made it.
(02:31):
But after a number of thingshappened and one day my boss
comes to me and says Ben, wehave nothing against you, we
just hate HR.
I thought, well, I'm HR, so howam I supposed to take that?
Everything that I've done inthese last few years has grown
my identity as an HRprofessional.
(02:52):
And if you say you hate that,then I understand it to mean you
hate me and everything about me.
And here's what's interestingSociety teaches us to chase
results.
I mean, if you think about itwhen you're going to school,
what are you supposed to get A's?
And if you get A's, what doesthat mean about you?
Oh, you're a smart kid, you'rean, a student, you're capable
(03:12):
and everything else.
But what if you get an F?
What does that mean about you?
Well, it means you're a failure.
At least that's how peopleinterpret it.
But the interesting thing is,an F grade does not mean failure
.
It means a failing grade.
But we don't talk about it thatway because we too quickly
identify ourselves based on theresults that we have.
(03:34):
So, learning this, even as I wasan HR executive in my 20s and
everybody's like dude, you madeit.
You got the picture perfectlife, traveling the world and
having all the things.
I was suffering in silencebecause now I thought, well, am
I?
I felt undervalued and unwantedand even a necessary evil.
Yeah, and when you feel thisway, when your confidence is
(03:55):
shot, you either underperform oryou're overcompensate.
And so I tried those things andI turned to coping mechanisms
to try to feel better.
I ultimately turned to anaddiction and of course, those
didn't work.
So I discovered therapy.
I discovered coaching changedthe way that I saw myself and
the world I saw started tochange.
(04:15):
I started to think well, holdon here.
Even though they hate HR, thatdoesn't mean I am a terrible
person.
I still have a lot of value tooffer.
And what was cool is I turnedthis around and I went to my
professional friends and I'mlike hmm, you're successful.
Have you ever felt unvalued,unwanted, not good enough?
And they're like bro, we oftenfeel this way.
(04:35):
The problem is nobody talksabout it.
So then, after four or fiveyears of coaching and it always
comes down to how they seethemselves, no matter the result
that they're going forconfidence at work, promotions,
making more money, losing weight, whatever it happens to be
always comes down to that.
I started to think oh, why am Ihave a book in here?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
yeah, so you know it's, it's.
It's funny listening to youtalk because I'm literally like,
oh well, you're describing myexperience, you know, and it's
very similar, right, and justhappened to be at the right
(05:21):
place at the right time, withthe right people around me and,
um, in the right circumstancesand, you know, found myself in a
successful HR career.
Um, and also found myselfsurrounded with people that
didn't want me there, right, youknow.
Now they liked me as as me, butthey hated my profession, they
hated what I stood for.
(05:43):
Right, like you, still got thejokes.
You know, hr is here, we can'thave, we can't have fun anymore.
Right, exactly, say what youwant to say, you know, and it's,
it's like as much as you wantto, like, you know, laugh it off
, it sucks.
Right, and and and I I wouldsay you know, from my standpoint
(06:03):
, very similar experience to you, where you question your
self-worth and you and youwonder what.
You know, who am I?
Because this is my identity.
It was my identity in manycases, in many places and and
certainly in many people's eyes,it is still my identity.
I'm that, I am literally calledthe HR guy.
You know, in like the, like mycircle, but, um, that's part of
(06:29):
what this podcast is about islike like throwing that away,
rejecting that right, rebellingagainst that, that identity.
And so I I love your approachon um self perception because I
think I think that is so muchthe root of where the problem
(06:49):
exists, and so I'm fascinated tokind of through your work and
the work you've done withclients and some of your
research and just your ownpersonal self-work.
What are the steps now thatwe're in a safe enough space to
admit this?
What are the steps where we canstart to build ourselves back
(07:11):
up from this unfair externalperception that so many people
have about us?
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So we'll break this apart alittle bit and I'll give you two
stories to relate and thenwe'll get into this solution.
And, as you were mentioningbefore this episode, you know,
unfortunately media and tv showsput paint hr in a negative
light.
Right, say, the office and, andyou know, hr professionals
there, and it's terrible.
(07:37):
When I first got into hr andeverybody said that first of all
I hadn't watched the episodes,I'm like what are you talking
about?
Like who's?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Toby.
And then you watch it andyou're like, oh, come on, man,
yeah for real.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
So then that's their funny definition of HR.
And then what they see asreality is the CEO is like, ah,
they're just a cost center.
Your coworkers are like, I haveno idea what HR does.
And all the employees say, oh,hr is just a bottleneck.
So it's like well shoot,everybody thinks this.
So what am I supposed to thinkabout myself?
And unless we have a verystrong foundation, support and
(08:19):
way of locking in our strongidentity, then it's easy to
believe what people think.
Then you just go to work andsay, well, I guess I'll handle
payroll and I guess I'll docompliance and I guess I'll just
be here so you don't get sued.
Yeah, you know, and that's nofun.
Yeah, that sucks.
And you know what's interesting?
I think this is funny.
I speak to a lot of hrconferences, or yeah, hr
professionals at theseconferences.
And boy do hr professionalsparty after the conference what
(08:42):
are you talking about, ben?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
I I've never seen that.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And I'm thinking well , yeah, this is the one time
they actually get to let looseand have fun.
Everywhere else they have to beHR right, totally.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
If you want to see crazy, go to an HR conference,
put HR in the wild and don't letanybody else from their company
go with them, and then justwatch it unfold.
It's fascinating, exactly.
And if you're listening to thispodcast and you don't know what
I'm talking about, you need toget out more exactly conference,
you'll see what I mean and thenI'll share a recent example.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
So I've been to a few conferences with johnny c
taylor, who's the president ofnational sherm right, and he
shared a story, a few years agoactually, when he met with a
group of very high level CEOsand just asking them hey, what
do you think about your HRprofessionals and how's it going
and everything else.
And they said my HRprofessional is one of the most
important employees in mycompany.
(09:40):
The problem is they don't seethat and so powerful statement
right there.
Yeah, so some people are sayingit.
Unfortunately, a lot of us livein this situation where the
boss just doesn't appreciate it.
I do think we're makingprogress, where people are
starting to appreciate HR andbecause we're in a place in this
(10:03):
world where we are set up tostep up, if that makes sense.
Because literally last week Iwas in a meeting with Johnny C
Taylor talking about AI andhuman intelligence.
Guess what they were saying?
That AI is not a tech, not anIT problem.
(10:24):
It is an HR situation becausewe get to see how to integrate
human intelligence with all thisother intelligence that's
coming down the line and that'scrucial because we can step into
a place of extreme value on thestrategic level.
But if we have aself-perception of, well, I'm
just HR, let somebody else dealwith it, we're missing an
(10:47):
opportunity.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I love that and I couldn't agree more.
We're supposed to be theexperts on how to work.
Sorry, I'm distracted.
There's somebody carrying areally cute baby outside the
window.
Anyways, talk about humanintelligence.
I'm like what is that?
Speaker 3 (11:09):
And since we're going to edit this, I'm going to
pause.
Your image is frozen, but canyou hear me and see me?
Okay, I can hear you and seeyou, yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It will, like the Zencaster will lag it and then
it will catch back up.
So you're good, okay, perfect,which is funny.
I'm like literally plugged inin my office fiber optic
internet, so whatever.
Anyways, no, okay, rewind, Editthis out.
(11:37):
Thank you, okay.
I could not agree more about theimportance of HR taking
ownership of things like AI.
It's a great.
It's a great like kind of acase study on like.
Hey, we need to like, own thisand become don't understand it.
We need to become the expertson it, because we're the experts
(11:59):
on how to do stuff, or weshould be right.
We should be, we should bemaking sure people understand
what their job expectations are,how we, how work is designed,
how's the org structure designand how ai fits into that in the
day-to-day, and how we canintegrate that and, oh, by the
way, how we can keep people fromfreaking out that they're not
like losing their jobs if aistarts to like.
(12:20):
There's all these differentaspects of ai that we just need
to embrace and help peoplefigure out.
Right, I'm totally, totallywith you.
That's, that's a really greatexample of like.
We have an opportunity to stepup right like.
There's so many, there's somany of those other situations
that have happened just in thelast five years.
Right, like we, like, like I.
(12:40):
I like to say all the time like, okay, if it's not us stepping
up and helping our organizationsout, then who is right?
Like we're supposed to be theexperts on people and all this,
most of this stuff.
People problems, right, or orrather, people, challenges and
opportunities for us to helpfigure out yeah, and to your
(13:01):
point, if we don't step up,guess what Somebody else will.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Who's much less qualified?
Right, right, won't solve theproblems as they need to be.
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think you know,
I think the statement you madeabout those CEOs right that
where they find HR extremelyimportant is how can we take
that kind of that mindset andhow can we overlay that with our
perceptions of ourselves andhelp ourselves show up with the
(13:33):
confidence and capability tostep into that role that our
leadership team actually needsus to be stepping into?
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yes, good.
So I'm going to get to thatright now.
I'm going to catch on somewords that you used, because
what I do as a coach, I meanit's very powerful.
Powerful the language that weuse, because we have so much
definition associated with thewords we use.
So, in other words, you hadsaid, hey, we are the hr experts
or we are hr.
That can have a powerfulpositive connotation.
(14:04):
It can also have a negativeconnotation I'm hr because it
has just so much weight to thatright.
Yeah, I would invite us not tojust define ourselves by I am hr
.
I would first define ourselvesas experts who do hr.
Okay, let me explain what thatmeans.
I mean, ceo has a title thatusually the weight is wow,
(14:28):
they're in charge of a bunch ofthings.
Even the title CFO often hasokay, they're the money guy,
right, but HR, as is, sometimeshas that negative connotation.
So what I would very muchencourage and this is what I
teach you first establish whoyou are, separate from that
title, separate from the role ofHR, and then you can show up as
(14:52):
the confident professional whohappens to run the HR side of
the business.
When you do that, you can cometo the room and see Kyle as Kyle
and so-and-so as so-and-so, andyou're all human beings who
happen to have a different angleon things finances, operations,
human resources, awesome.
(15:13):
And when you do that, then youseparate yourself from the
connotations, whatever they maybe, of HR and then you can say
look from my place of confidenceand expertise, here's how we
need to handle things.
It separates whether I'm goingto take it personally or not.
It allows you to make betterdecisions because it's not so
(15:33):
tied to your worth.
It says this is the bestdecision for the company and I
can say that with confidencebecause I've worked on my own
self-confidence.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I love it.
I love it and I think that,interestingly, when I got into
human resources, I did not go toschool for HR, I fell into it.
I have a business degree.
I was in operations and ITbefore human resources and I've
(16:09):
always identified myself as I'mjust I'm a business professional
that happens to do HR right,like that's kind of that's.
That's kind of how I'vedescribed myself as I've and I
would.
I would tell you that thebusiness leaders that I've
interacted with and worked withover the years have appreciated
that my perspective andperception is specifically from
a business, like a holisticbusiness lens, not just like a
(16:33):
very short-sighted, like it'sjust HR right, like a ton of
view.
But the reality is, I think somuch of that is because that's
just the identity that I'veprojected from the beginning.
Right, I'm doing the same thingthat most HR professionals do.
I'm focusing on compliance andmaking sure we're paying
equitably and fairly.
(16:54):
You know, trying to.
You know be a good coach,identify great talent, make sure
I have great recruitingpractice.
I'm doing all the same stuff,but I'm showing up in a way
where my identity is broaderthan the role that I play, right
, and so I think like anchoringto that difference of identity.
While it might seem reallysubtle, it's a big deal right.
(17:16):
And eventually, if you identifyas a certain thing, eventually
you start to believe it right,even if you don't, like,
necessarily know exactly whatthat means.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, now I'll add to that with a little example and
story.
In my book, how we SeeOurselves, I talk about what's
called the Eden model and itbreaks down sections of how our
brain works.
Most of us focus on results, sowe focus on behaviors and say,
well, since I'm HR, I have to dothis and even in business, you
have to do this to get thisresult.
(17:49):
Work more hours, whatever it is.
But we don't talk about are theemotions we experience, the
thoughts we have and everythingelse.
So the point that I'm gettingat is by using the model
correctly, which is upside downcompared to what most people
experience.
Is you not experience?
(18:14):
Is you identify yourself as youwant to be, as the person who's
going to get those results?
First?
Most people say, okay, theresult, I'm going to chase it,
but based on who I am, it's notgoing to work.
So here's the example she justread my book.
I've never coached her, but sheread my book and she's like
this is amazing, because about10 years ago she was very active
in the gym.
She had grown up being anathlete and loved being athletic
(18:35):
, but for the last eight yearsshe had struggled to go to the
gym.
She had struggled to just beactive and be proud of her body.
She had done all of theimportant things reading the
books, trying the diets, doingthe things but nothing was
working until after she read mybook and learned the importance
of identity.
(18:55):
She simply told herself I am anathlete.
And because she saw herselfthat way and believed it when
she told me this story, she hadbeen going consistently to the
gym for the last 13 weeks.
Awesome, so it's super powerful.
How we define ourselvesinfluences everything else that
(19:16):
we do.
To your point, if I'm just HR,how are you going to act?
Or if I'm a business expert whohappens to run HR, how are you
going to act differently there?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Or if you are a very confident human being who makes
a difference in this world, whohas a passion for human behavior
and how it can impact thebusiness results, who happens to
be in charge of HR.
Imagine the results that thattype of person will get.
Can you sense the difference?
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yeah, yeah it's a really, really powerful thing.
You know I think it'sfascinating and there's um, you
know there's there's a litany ofresearch around this and I know
I know you're a parent.
You know, like, if your kidsidentify as being a certain way
or not, their behavior is in, in, like, and the outcomes is
(20:06):
actually is actually drasticallydifferent, like, so you know,
if you like, like for me, like,I tell my kids, you know, we are
kind, we are roads, that's whowe are, we are kind as people.
You know that that that's areally powerful ripple effect
for them to believe Right.
And you know, hopefully, if I'mdoing everything else right,
(20:27):
hopefully they'd turn out to bekind human beings when they grow
up.
Right, like, that's that's thehope and I think it's the same.
It's that same concept thatthat so often I think we trick
ourselves into being lesseffective than we are.
Or I think the other thing I'mI'm fascinated to get your
opinion on this is I think in HRwe have a lot of people who are
people pleasers.
I think in HR we have a lot ofpeople who are people pleasers.
(20:48):
Naturally, like, people want tobe liked and so they kind of
(21:18):
modify their behavior to reflecthow people that long term,
you're going to die insideBecause you're not actually
going to be yourself, you're notactually going to be authentic,
you're going to kind of be justa wet noodle and kind of
flowing with the wind and peoplearen't going to know who you
are.
So so for those of us that aremaybe struggle with that, where
it's like you're trying to getpeople to like you or or or
(21:41):
you're aware that there's anegative perception, you're
trying to modify that.
How can we, how can we do thatwithout, like, losing our core
identity or our sense of self?
Speaker 3 (21:52):
so the question is how can you adapt to people and
enjoy being with people withoutlosing your sense of self?
Was that?
Speaker 1 (21:57):
the question.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, yeah, okay well , what it comes down to first is
the hard work of knowing whoyou are in the first place.
And I say it's hard, or can behard, because, unfortunately,
most of us have gone throughsociety being defined by our
experiences, our results and ourrelationships, and we've had to
(22:18):
change color so many times tofit the mold of wherever we are.
And it's exhausting and to yourpoint, at the end of the day,
you're like I have no idea who Iam, or I've identified myself
so much with this role becausethis role is currently working,
but then, when they considerleaving or changing their career
or changing whatever it isthey're like, there's no way I
(22:39):
can do that because I have noidea who I am outside of this
role or this title.
So it does take work and Iwon't say there's a magic answer
to it.
So it does take work and Iwon't say there's a magic answer
to it, but I would invite youto ponder after you listen to
this podcast and just ponderthis question who am I outside
of my HR role?
And you will probably.
(23:01):
It might be some seriousintrospection, you may not like
it, it may be uncomfortable andI will say, and it will be very
rewarding.
Okay, I would invite you tojournal.
Write these things down, get itout of your head and see what
you write, and if you'rethinking this wow, this is a
bunch of negative stuff.
(23:21):
Okay, awareness is first andthen we can decide well, who do
you want to be outside of yourHR role?
And that's where some powerfultransformation can occur.
Where you can add to it issupporting or surrounding
yourself with the right people.
If you have a community, bewith them.
Help, you know, be in a placewhere people can see you outside
(23:41):
of your HR role.
That helps decide an identity.
If you believe in a higherpower, you know God can tell you
those things right.
So there's a lot of elementsthat can help you understand who
you are outside of your HR role.
But it is crucial to understandthat because otherwise, back to
your point.
Sometimes we define HR as well.
I got into HR because I'm apeople person.
(24:03):
I like being with people, Iwant them to be happy at work, I
want to make the terminationnot feel so bad and it's well,
that doesn't work, yeah, soknowing who you are outside of
the HR role helps you performeven better in the HR role.
And how do you adapt to peopleWell because you understand
yourself.
(24:23):
You have a much betterunderstanding of others and you
can respond in.
You know some adaptable ways inthe how to win friends and
influence people.
Right, you can say great, Iknow how to listen, I know how
to ask questions, I know how totalk about what they like and
all of the tactics that areimportant without you having to
change who you are.
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I think it's really interesting because there's so
much power in being authentic,right and so, but but we're
we're seeking something right,and and I think, in general, you
(25:12):
know that that's that's mostpeople that like are extroverted
, right, like we're just tryingto connect with others.
It's how we gain energy, it'sit's you know, it's, it can be
really really enjoyable.
But, but in order to show upfor others, you have to be able
to show up for yourself, rightlike.
You have to know who you are,and you know an example that
(25:34):
I'll use.
So you know, I used to be theguy that was like super
professional at work, like Ididn't blend personal
professional at all, and youknow, I showed up kind of, and I
played the part really well,right, but that's really what it
was.
It was like I felt like I wasan actor, right.
(25:56):
And what's interesting is,through a couple pivotal moments
and through community work,through some volunteer work, I
had a couple light bulbs go offwhere it's like hey, I want to
fight for this cause, for thisnonprofit, and I'm going to do
that and I'm not going to beashamed of it.
I'm going to share it broadlywithin the organization that I'm
doing it.
Guess what happened.
Other people started to findbenefit in that or saw me as a
(26:20):
human being, and then I wasgetting brought into other
things.
My career actually took offspecifically because I chose to
start to be kind of my myselfwithin the context of this
professional persona that I wasbuilding, and so you know, I
could not agree more that onceyou find that thing that makes
(26:42):
you tech and who you are, andyou start to do that work, good
things happen, both personallyand professionally, and for me,
it's that is kind of the secretto success and and at the end of
the day, I, I think I, I thinkyou would agree with this I
think that's how you make workmore fun and enjoyable, right,
(27:02):
when you can actually show up asyour whole self and and and and
do that work in a way thatthat's like fulfilling your own
self identity yeah, you know,that's great.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
This thought came to my mind and it's this aspect of
a different mindset, but also anelement of fun.
So try this instead ofintroducing yourself and saying
hey, I am hr, you say I am kyle,my name is kyle, I do hr.
That feels so different.
And then somebody's like whoakyle, tell me about you and not
just, oh, I'm hr.
What the heck does that mean?
(27:36):
Or I already know what thatmeans I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I one of the one of the best facilitator tricks I've
ever seen, and it's not even atrick, it's just like.
It's just who he is.
Uh, one of my, one of my dearfriends and and he's been a
guest on this podcast before hisname's Bob Kelleher.
Before he does a presentation,he literally shows a slide with
him about him and his family andhe's a family man and he talks
(28:03):
about he just talks about who heis as a human being, before he
talks about all the accoladesand he's got all the accolades
and all the books and thebestsellers and and the story
career.
But it's it's bob, the man thatgets people to buy in before
bob, the you know guy who wroteliterally wrote the book on
(28:23):
employee engagement, right, youknow, it's like that's exciting
and interesting for you know,for me, just because it's like
I'm like, wow, that's reallycool.
But I love Bob because of whoBob is, not because of what Bob
has done.
To go circle all the way back towhere we started this, right,
it's about who you are, not youraccomplishments, right, not the
(28:45):
grade that you get in school.
So I love that.
I love that, that, thatapproach, um, so so we're, we're
coming kind of, you know,towards, towards the end of our
time together.
I warned you when we hit record, I'm like we're going to just
get warmed up and then we'regoing to, then it's going to be
over, right?
Um, we're going to shift gears.
I want to, I'm fascinated toget your, to get your, uh, your
(29:12):
response to the, the rebel hrflash round.
Are you ready?
Ready, all right.
So, question number one givenwhat we've talked about, where
do we need to rebel?
Speaker 3 (29:33):
okay, yes, exactly what we're, what we've been
talking about.
You need to rebel on this waythat hr is seen but, most
importantly, how you seeyourself.
No longer define yourself asI'm just the hr guy or HR person
.
Right, I am Ben, who happens todo HR and watch what happens.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I love it.
Question number two who shouldwe be listening to?
Speaker 3 (30:02):
Broadly.
You should be listening to thepeople who believe in you and
who know who you are as a person, so that identity is super
strong.
And then, just as an example,since I brought him up in the
podcast, johnny C Taylor, hebelieves in you as a person and
what you can do.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Love it.
Final question how can ourlisteners connect with you?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
You know, go to my website howwesee see
ourselvescom.
That's where you can get a copyof the book and how you can
connect with me.
I on a lot of social media.
I do a lot of work so you canwatch me speak, you can connect
to me in some group sessions andI can help address what you're
going through and helpstrengthen that identity that
allows you to not only getbetter results but, most
(30:47):
importantly, the experiencehappiness along the way.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I love it.
We will have all thatinformation in the show notes,
so take a moment, open up yourpodcast player and click on in
the book.
Again is how we See Ourselves.
It is available now where booksare sold Best-selling title.
And congratulations again toBen on all your success and
(31:09):
thanks for spending just a fewminutes with us here today.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Thank, you so much, Kyle.
All right, that does it for theRebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR Podcast, Twitter at Rebel HR
Guy, or see our website atrebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR Podcast
(31:33):
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
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