November 13, 2024 • 40 mins
Diane Allen, a visionary in the realm of flow state, joins us to unlock the secrets behind her groundbreaking book, "Flow: Unlock Your Genius. Love What You Do." Discover how Diane defied conventional wisdom by entering a flow state to deliver a concentrated burst of creativity, completing her book in record time. She shares the emotional triumphs and practical challenges of bringing her masterpiece to life, from the labyrinth of editing and layout to the exhilarating moment of presenting her work at a pivotal conference. This is a must-listen for anyone with a story to tell, who needs a nudge to make it happen.
Ever wondered how the monotonous nature of certain jobs might lead to higher injury rates? We tackle this compelling question by examining the fishing industry, shedding light on the often-overlooked link between lackluster tasks and workplace accidents. Our discussion reveals the skill-challenge-purpose model as a beacon for igniting engagement through flow states, potentially transforming job satisfaction and safety. By harnessing the latest neuroscience insights, we explore how gamifying routines can turn ordinary labor into an extraordinary experience, releasing performance-enhancing hormones in the process.
Finally, we embark on a journey to uncover personal flow strategies that resonate across various domains, from the symphonic energy of leading an orchestra to the rhythmic flow of daily work. Through poignant storytelling, learn how to identify your unique flow state and channel your internal motivations into impactful external actions. HR professionals are especially invited to explore how these strategies can not only enrich their own work experience but also foster a culture of deep engagement and positivity in their teams. This episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and practical guidance for anyone seeking to elevate their life and work through the power of flow.
Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work. Please connect to continue the conversation!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kyle Roed (00:03):
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back, Rebel HRcommunity.
This is going to be a fun one.
Today With us we have anamazing guest, Diana Allen.
She is a flow state thoughtleader, a violinist and an
(00:25):
author of the book that isavailable now.
The book is named Flow Unlockyour genius.
Love what you do.
Diane, thank you so much forjoining us.
Really excited for theconversation.
Welcome to the podcast.
Dianne Allen (00:39):
Thank you so much, fellow rebeler.
Kyle Roed (00:43):
I love it.
I love it and you know, beforeI hit record, we were just
talking, like I saw your, yournote come in.
You know, just asking about thepodcast.
I'm like, oh my gosh, we haveto talk, we have to do this.
So thank you for for carvingout the time in your busy
schedule.
I want to start off with thequestion that I ask almost every
author, and that is whatmotivated you to invest the time
(01:07):
, energy and, in some cases,heartburn of writing and
publishing your own book.
Dianne Allen (01:15):
Oh, my Quoted question.
Yeah, you know, I do a lot ofprofessional speaking and a part
of being a professional speakeris, well, you need to have a
book, and it's one of thosethings that I knew.
I had a book in me.
I just had to sit down andwrite it.
And she was saying, yeah, yougot to do like, just do 250
(01:45):
words a day.
And I was like, uh-uh, thatdoesn't work.
With Diane Allen, I knew how Iget into flow already, so I was
like, yeah, no 250 words a day.
That sounds like red light,green light, red light, green
light.
I sat down the last two weeksof December in 2023, and I just
(02:06):
wrote it.
I just that's all I did.
Uh, we are low key holidaypeople, so it was perfect time.
It was quiet and I um, I justpounded it out.
I knew that I didn't have to doa lot of research.
It was already what was withinme.
That was the easy part.
The hard part was working withthe editor and the layout person
(02:29):
, because we had really highstandards.
Kyle Roed (02:34):
Really high standards .
Dianne Allen (02:35):
I had no idea how important the layout of a book
is to make it readable.
The layout of a book is to makeit readable had no idea.
And if you think about in music, like, we have form in music,
right, and that's kind of whatkeeps things together right In
the workplace.
We have guardrails, right, andyou know, if it's just always a
(02:58):
free for all, like you know,sometimes those guardrails
really help to hone ideas, right.
And I had no idea, like howmuch the layout of the book, uh,
we worked really hard on that.
We had, like I don't know,almost 20 different versions of
the cover, like we worked reallyhard on it.
But, um, I had pre-sold thebook to Alaska Sherm, uh, for
(03:24):
their conference that we justdid in late October 2024.
And it was so exciting to bethere.
300 people received my book,with a wonderful sponsor, and
they paid for the books and itwas just the most incredibly
rewarding experience now thatall the hard work is over,
incredibly rewarding experience,now that all the hard work is
(03:47):
over.
Kyle Roed (03:49):
I love it.
So as a as a, as a fellowmusician and I use air quotes
when I when I say that, comparedto your experience and I, you
know, I I think it's so it'sjust such a corollary experience
to like songwriting, right,where you, you, you, like you,
you, you like you, you, you putyour, your heart and soul and
like your creative energy intosomething that that means so
(04:12):
much to you.
And then and then, but then youhave to go through the work of
like crafting, right, and it'slike and like like rewriting,
and you, you open yourself up,that really vulnerable right,
because you're, you'reessentially like, you're writing
your truth down, and then andthen you're opening yourself up
to these kind of these externalinfluences, right, to put it
into something that's palatablefor a general audience.
Dianne Allen (04:35):
So there's a contributor to my book.
Um, she was, uh, a Yale lawprofessor for, I think, 30 years
and I met her.
I did a masterclass for a groupof amateur musicians and she
was one of those people and partof the masterclass was learning
(04:59):
what is your flow state?
How do you get into it?
How can it help you as amusician state?
How do you get into it?
How can it help you as amusician?
And she contacted me and shesaid, diane, I have had this
complete flashback over myentire career.
I could see how Flo kept meafloat throughout all of the
(05:19):
hardships that I dealt withwithout, you know, compromising
and not compromising her quality, but actually flow helped her
to enhance her quality.
As you imagine, the Yale Lawprofessor has to be at the top
of their game all the time, andshe said that flow was always
the answer.
So she was able to write thisbeautiful letter that we
(05:39):
included in the book that really, really highlighted practical
application of being in the flowstate, and she said that she
had written two books herself inher career.
She's now retired and she said,boy, if I hadn't done that, it
would have been as if I neverdid the work, like because you
(06:02):
have a solid, tangible thing.
It's like I was there, I did it, this is it right.
And as I was nearing the end ofthe entire process, I had that
same feeling like, oh mygoodness, look at this, it is a
tangible thing, it is here, likethere's something very
emotional about it, but thankyou for asking is here like it.
Kyle Roed (06:27):
there's something very emotional about it, but, um
, thank you for asking, I get it, I get it.
No, I get it, and I think so,what?
Um, you know what?
What fascinates me about, uh,about individuals like yourself,
that that take, you know, takethese, these, these nebulous
ideas, and this creativity andthis, this, this body of you
know work, and I'm assuming,which is kind of in lifetime of
work, and then and then, to putthat into something that is
(06:48):
tangible and that can be sharedwith others.
I think, I think, there's suchpower in that and I think it's,
I think, it's same comment on,you know, musicians, authors, um
, you know, speakers, uh, and,and, and people like yourselves.
And I'm, I'm, I'm curious, um,as, as you've done this work and
(07:09):
as you've, you've done, youknow, done the research and
teaching on on flow state, um,what are, what are the things
that, that, what, what are thethings that excites you the most
about this work?
What really keeps you comingback, day in and day out, to do
this?
Dianne Allen (07:27):
Yeah, thank you for asking.
So first of all, we have tocircle back to that word
nebulous, because the entirethought leadership that I have
on Flow State is to takesomething that seems nebulous
and makes it into a very, veryuseful tool, and to be able to
(07:49):
share that with people is whatkeeps me coming back.
I just mentioned that Irecently came back from Alaska.
There was a gentleman in theaudience who I don't know
exactly what his role is, but hesees a lot of the data in the
(08:09):
fishing industry.
Okay, these are people who haveto wash the fish.
Right, the fish is coming offthe boat.
They're washing the fish.
Then you get these people whoare doing this aggressive
smashing process very, veryphysical work and he said that
the people who have the mostmundane job, okay, which is the
(08:30):
people who are washing the fish,they have the highest rate of
injuries and everything that wetalked about, about what the
flow state is, everything thatwe talked about about what the
flow state is, how do youtrigger it?
How do you activate it withinyourself.
He realized that's what's beenmissing for these people,
(08:52):
because there's nothing thatthey're connecting with.
They are completely disengaged.
They are just like a machine.
There's no skill necessary, andthe thing about flow is it is
not a mindset, it is a mindstate.
It's an optimal state of mindwhen people feel their best and
they perform their best.
(09:13):
I like to describe it when yourgenius and your heart become
one, and the neuroscience offlow is such that it optimizes
our brain.
So there are a number of peakperformance hormones that get
released when we're in flowAnandamide, endorphins, dopamine
, serotonin and norepinephrineand because of this we
(09:36):
experience euphoria, motivation,peak performance and happiness.
This and so, when people are inflow, they're oftentimes at the
, the psychologist.
So flow falls under the, theumbrella of positive psychology,
the first psychologist who didextensive research into flow.
(09:57):
His name is MihalyCsikszentmihalyi, and he he's
got a lot of different ideasabout how to get into flow.
One of the ones that I have usedfrequently at different
conferences and events with HRprofessionals is the skill
challenge purpose model.
So at the if you just got tothink about a Venn diagram,
(10:22):
three circles, skill, challenge,purpose Okay.
And so if we take a look atthese people who are washing
fish, okay, not much skillnecessary.
Okay, not much challengehappening and not much purpose
going on either, right.
And so if you remove purposefor a second, you've got a skill
(10:45):
.
Okay, if a skill, if you, ifyou have a skill but it's not
challenged, nothing is going toignite.
If you have a challenge withouta skill, nothing is going to
ignite.
It's the two together thatignites flow and brings out the
best in people.
And when you add purpose to it,it just takes it to a whole new
level.
(11:06):
So this gentleman in Alaskalooking at how can we lower the
rate of these injuries with thepeople who wash fish, he's like
the answer is in this model.
He's like I see it.
He couldn't quite put hisfinger on it.
He said I'm thinking we need togamify it, we need to increase
(11:26):
their skill, we need to givethem a challenge, maybe find a
personal purpose, like he couldtell that there was something
there that would help him toflip the switch for these people
so that they can be lessinjured.
The last thing I'll share withhis story is that he said that
the people who are doing likeall the smashing and all like
the heavy physical work,sweating and you know, like
(11:50):
really heavy physical work, hesaid, they actually have less
injuries than the people justwashing the fish and it's
because they have their wholeself involved in some way and I
imagine that physicality andthat.
Oh, the other piece he said wasthat there was a feedback
mechanism.
They could see in front of themthe results of their work.
(12:12):
They could see the pounding andhow it accumulated into however
they capture the fish.
Kyle Roed (12:20):
Interesting.
Dianne Allen (12:22):
Amazing right.
Kyle Roed (12:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah cute .
I'm just envisioning DeadliestCatch and the Bon Jovi theme
song and and and all of this.
You could, you could have somefun with this, but you know I I
want to go back to something yousaid that you know it's.
It's not a mindset, it's a mindstate, and I think so often you
(12:44):
know you see these or you oryou hear these, or or or or get
advice that, like you, just youjust need to get in the right
mindset, you need to get in theright frame of mind or you need
to coach yourself into a flowstate.
So are you saying that that'snot really the case, that the
(13:06):
flow state is more of a state ofmind versus trying to coach,
coach yourself or convinceyourself to get quote into flow?
Dianne Allen (13:14):
Correct.
So, uh, let's just go.
Let me just finish like kind ofgoing through, like what
exactly is flow?
Kyle Roed (13:21):
Right Cause.
Dianne Allen (13:21):
I've already talked about the neuroscience of
it.
When we say go with the flow,that's a mind state, and usually
people are just saying, uh,just relax, like you know, roll
with it, that kind of thing.
And when you are in flow, a lotof people do describe it as
that feeling of just you know,relaxing and going with it.
(13:43):
But it's different, because Ialready mentioned mindset.
Okay, when you think aboutgoing with the flow as a mindset
, that is passive, but when youare in flow, it is actually
active.
I already mentioned at theintersection of skill, challenge
and purpose, that's whatignites flow.
(14:04):
That is very action-based, okay.
So the key indicators of beingin flow let me re-say that again
, the key indicators of being inflow help people to realize
when they're in it.
A lot of times, people don'trealize that they're in flow
(14:25):
until they're out of flow, andit's not until they're out of
flow that they realize thebenefits of being in it.
So how do you know then?
Right?
Well, you do lose sense of timeand it's because you just love
what you're doing.
Kyle Roed (14:38):
I know you've experienced that right.
Dianne Allen (14:39):
Yeah, you lose a sense of self, which is really
kind of funny thing to say.
Like, what does that mean?
Losing a sense of self?
And you know, if we go a littlebit deeper into the
neurobiology of flow, it'sbecause there are things that
get turned on in your brain.
There are things that getturned off and the peak
performance hormones that getturned on.
I already mentioned right, butthe thing that gets turned off
(15:01):
in your brain is your fight orflight response and your inner
critic, your inner critic, isgone, and so people feel
uninhibited and they feelfearless, and when they're in
that moment, a lot of ideas andinsights come in from out of the
blue, because we're notfiltering them.
Ideas and insights coming infrom out of the blue is another
(15:23):
key indicator of being in flow,things coming together with a
sense of ease.
Kyle, have you ever gotten moredone in 30 minutes than you had
in the last three days?
Kyle Roed (15:32):
Okay, Not if my boss asks no, never had that happen.
I'm always super productive.
Dianne Allen (15:41):
That's so funny and I usually do get a chuckle
when I say that one, because alot of people experience that
and that is being in flow, okay,and it does seem nebulous and
elusive.
That is being in flow, okay,and it does seem nebulous and
elusive.
A couple more key indicatorsInstead of being in a negative
feedback loop, kind of like thepeople washing fish right, where
(16:01):
you have to use willpower,right and discipline to do the
work that drains you and thenyou have to recover at the end
of the day, right, and you getinto this negative feedback loop
.
When you're in flow, it is sorewarding that it refuels you
and you get into a positivefeedback loop.
And the positive feedback loopis, you know to understand.
(16:23):
That is one thing, but itsimpact on mental health is
something that Adam Grant,organizational psychologist,
really highlighted, especiallyduring the pandemic.
He wrote an article in the NewYork Times, he gave a TED Talk
on this very topic and he talkedabout the mental health
spectrum and how, halfwaybetween depression and
(16:44):
flourishing, there's this midwaypoint where you're fine but
you're not fine.
You're functional but you can'tget motivated, you're just kind
of blah.
And so, according to Adam Grant, the antidote to go from
languishing to flourishing is toget into your flow state.
Kyle Roed (17:01):
Absolutely.
I think, yeah, I love, yeah, Iread the.
You know the languishing, youknow, and certainly experienced
that myself in.
You know, sitting at home, youknow, watching COVID cases light
up around the world.
But you know, I think, I thinkit's fascinating.
So, and and this goes back toyou know the, the fight or
flight, inner critic being shutoff, and you know so much of,
(17:25):
you know so much of that, thatresearch on the brain is the.
You know that that that fight orflight it shuts off, you know,
shuts off creativity, becauseit's all about your body trying
to, like, save yourself.
You know, and you know it's,it's, it's old wiring from, you
know, caveman days, that thatisn't necessarily effective in
the current world that weoperate in as human beings.
(17:47):
And you know but I mean I'msure many of of us can, can
reflect on the times when, uh,it's almost like, it's almost
like you let go right and you're, you're in a situation where
it's like, okay, I give it up tothe universe or god or whatever
, and I'm just gonna let, and,and then stuff starts to happen
right, like, like, you do startto you get that spark of
(18:10):
creativity, or you or you findsome ask some joyful aspect of
your life that, um, you werekind of, you know, missing
before and and and you hearthese stories and I think, I
think many of us haveexperienced that.
So that so my question is yeahgo ahead.
Dianne Allen (18:27):
That's my claim to fame is like how can we take
that and make it real in ourlives, right, right and so, um.
So I'm holding up a picture ofthe orchestra I used to play in.
So I was the lead violinist,the concert master of an
orchestra for 15 years.
Okay, that's second in commandto the conductor, and it didn't
matter how I showed up that day.
However, I showed up.
That was going to have a rippleeffect throughout the orchestra
(18:50):
and the audience, because Ialso was kind of like part of my
role was it was all nonverbalcommunication, but I did also
interact with the audience.
Okay, so it was just not justthe orchestra, right?
So I had to be at the top of mygame.
I always had to show up, andpeople expect musicians to get
(19:13):
into the music, right, we're notgoing to be disengaged
employees on a stage becausenobody would come to the concert
.
Kyle Roed (19:23):
Right, right.
You're literally on stage.
Dianne Allen (19:26):
Literally on stage and you're expected to get into
the music, because that createsa transformational experience
for everyone, right?
Kyle Roed (19:35):
yeah, yeah, so I think you know I'll I'll make a
comment on that.
So as a.
So not everybody, not manypeople know this, but I used to
play cello in an orchestra, likeback in school, so I'm nowhere
near your accomplishment, but Iwill tell to the, to the
listeners the lead violinist isa big freaking deal and
everybody in the orchestra hasto follow the energy and the
(20:02):
down to the way that the bow isbeing moved across the violin,
because that's all part of theperformance, it's part of the,
the energy of the music, andit's and you're not just
watching the conductor, you'rewatching that lead violinist
because they set the performance.
It's part of the energy of themusic and you're not just
watching the conductor, you'rewatching that lead violinist
because they set the tone.
So it's very similar to like aworkplace where you've got you
know, you've got like a lineleader or a line manager.
(20:23):
That's like they're taking whatthe CEO says and they're
actually deploying it throughoutthe workplace.
That's how I would describethat for those that aren't like
orchestra nerds, like me.
Dianne Allen (20:34):
I am going to get that clip because you're the
first person that, like I'veever had a conversation with,
that we're recording.
That could actually articulateexactly, and I'd like to
describe it as as, like, if theconductor is the CEO, I'm
basically interpreting what theconductor is doing to make it
accessible for the orchestramembers.
Kyle Roed (20:57):
Right, cause you cause, cause the orchestra.
You're watching the nonverbalmannerisms of everybody around
you, especially that lead violin, because you're also looking at
the music and you don't haveall the music memorized, so you
have.
So you're watching like sixdifferent inputs at the same
time and so much of it.
You're actually intuitivelyunderstanding the energy that's
coming at you from everybodyelse around you.
(21:19):
So it's, it's a very likeorganic, it's.
It's hard to explain, like it'sreally hard for me to explain
it verbally, but that's, that'swhat it's like.
It's like you're, you'reactually sensing the energy.
Dianne Allen (21:28):
Yes, around you.
Kyle Roed (21:29):
That's what it's, that's what I love.
That's what I loved about it,right.
Dianne Allen (21:33):
Like it's such a cool experience Right.
So, because I do speak for a lotof leadership events when you
are getting into the music, whenyou are getting into your work
like a musician gets into themusic, are getting into your
work like a musician gets intothe music, I don't care if
(21:54):
you're washing fish, you'recutting pipe or you're having a
high-end brainstorming meetingto revolutionize whatever right.
There is an energy there.
Maybe it looks like enthusiasm,Maybe it looks like your friend
who on Friday night, has likethis thing where every Friday
night they make homemade pizza.
(22:15):
That's like they talk about itall week.
They're excited about it allweek.
Maybe one week they invite youover.
You're not so into pizza butfor some reason you're there.
You can't get.
You get caught up in theenthusiasm.
So flow is basically the energyof enthusiasm and, according to
(22:35):
the Heart Math Institute, okay,when you are in flow, you are
using your signature strengths.
Okay, we have to go into howpeople get into flow, because
when you get into how people getinto flow, you are identifying
their signature strengths.
But you're also identifyingpurpose.
Okay, and when you are comingfrom a place, whether you're
(22:56):
getting into the music, makingthose pizzas, washing fish or
getting into your job, maybeit's that Excel spreadsheet
where you lose all sense of time.
Okay, Cause you just love whatyou're doing that you're
igniting the 40,000 neurons inyour heart and, according to the
HeartMath Institute, theelectromagnetic field of the
(23:16):
heart reaches out 60% greaterthan the brain's electromagnetic
field, and it reaches out threefeet all around you, which
means everybody around yousenses your energy.
Now all those people think upto you.
Now they're exuding three footcircles.
(23:38):
This is literally theenergetics of a ripple effect,
and so, as I'm leading theorchestra non-verbally, I'm
doing it all energetically.
I trigger it by leading myselfto get into flow.
If I could lead myself to getinto flow, I could lead myself
to get into flow.
If I could lead myself to getinto flow, I could lead others
to get into theirs.
And when you have a large groupof people, whether it's three
(23:59):
people or more, the hundreds youknow, between the orchestra and
the audience you're igniting asynergistic state of group flow.
Kyle Roed (24:15):
Love it.
So there is real science tothis energy woo-woo stuff we all
talk about.
Dianne Allen (24:20):
Yes, okay, listen, we have to make the most of our
time here.
So Kyle and I were having aconversation before we started
recording.
He said I get into the musicall the time.
I get into flow when I'm in mymusic.
I'd like to experience thatmore at work.
Okay, yeah.
So what I want to do is walkKyle through figuring that out
(24:44):
and I'm going to use threequestions.
So these are the threequestions Basically, just to
give like a really quickbackground.
I had a day where I couldn't getinto the music, freaked me out.
That night I sat on the couch,literally like humiliated,
because I felt like, okay, nowmy job security and my
reputation are at stake, becauseI played a concert where I was
(25:05):
going through the motions and Iwas very visible in that concert
.
It was not good.
So if only everyone were asconscientious as a musician
about being engaged in theirwork.
Right, like you have to beright.
So the that night is the night.
(25:27):
That was my defining moment,where, where my thought
leadership, you know, was born.
Like what, what was I doing?
Okay, so the first question isokay, let's, we're going to,
we're going to use the threeprompts that I came up with that
night to help Kyle figure outwhere.
First, we're going to justfigure out how to.
How do you uniquely get intoflow when you're either writing
(25:50):
music or playing music, okay, sothe first question is it's just
where?
Just locate it?
Where are you?
Kyle Roed (25:57):
Like like where am I when I hit that state?
Dianne Allen (26:00):
No, yeah, like, like for me, like, if I'm
practicing, I'm here in my roomRight, so like where?
Kyle Roed (26:09):
where are you?
Do you have a location?
Yeah, I'm usually in the,usually in the living room
looking out the window.
You know like I have somepicture of nature somewhere.
Dianne Allen (26:15):
Okay.
Kyle Roed (26:16):
Somehow.
Dianne Allen (26:16):
Those are great details.
Okay, so he just describedwhere he was in the environment.
Okay, what are you doing?
This is, like you know, for me,I'm playing the violin, right?
It's just as basic as that,right?
So what are you doing?
Kyle Roed (26:31):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (26:31):
You can pick, playing or writing music.
Which which one do you feel hasmore juice in it?
Kyle Roed (26:37):
Um playing, yeah, Playing guitar.
Dianne Allen (26:39):
So you're playing guitar.
That's what you're doing on theoutside.
Okay, so the first question iswhere are you?
Second question is what are youdoing?
But there's a two-part questionhere.
What are you doing on theoutside?
You're playing guitar.
What are you doing on theinside?
I'm going to give you a coupleexamples.
Okay, let's say where you areis in your office.
(27:01):
What you're doing on theoutside is working on an Excel
spreadsheet.
What you're doing on the insidecould be any number of things.
You could be problem solving,you could be strategizing, you
could be visualizing right A lotof different things.
So, when you think about whatare you doing when you're
(27:22):
playing the guitar, what are youdoing on the inside?
What is that for you?
Kyle Roed (27:30):
Well, this is interesting.
So for me it's completing the.
It's connecting the dotsbetween the patterns that I hear
in my head or visually seesomehow, and making that come
(27:51):
out of the guitar.
Dianne Allen (27:54):
Connecting with us .
Kyle Roed (27:55):
Yeah, like connect.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good wayto say it.
It's like, uh, it's like taking, taking a known pattern and
making something new with it, Iguess that's how I would
describe that.
Dianne Allen (28:04):
Yeah, that means something to you.
Kyle Roed (28:06):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (28:07):
Okay.
Kyle Roed (28:07):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (28:07):
And this is what we're talking about.
When you Okay, yeah, and thisis what we're talking about.
When you know, we talk aboutwhat.
What makes people tick, what'stheir signature strength, right,
what's their um secret sauce?
For you, it's connecting thedots.
That's it, okay.
That's your unique way, okay,or what you're doing, okay.
Now the last question isanother.
(28:29):
You know we've heard thisquestion a zillion times why,
okay, why is connecting the dotsso meaningful?
Do you want me to give you anexample?
First?
Sure, let's go back to thespreadsheet.
Right, where somebody is is intheir office.
What they're doing on theoutside is working on an Excel
(28:53):
spreadsheet.
What they're doing on theinside, let's say, let's say
they're problem solving.
Why is that problem solving someaningful?
And they might say, well, it'sbecause you know, when you solve
the problem, it's just, youknow it's a big relief, right,
and I get to contribute, right.
So then you could say, well,why is that important?
(29:13):
Well, solving the problem andcontributing, you know that's
being of service, and and ifthey really light up, you know
like, that's, that's like areally important thing in their
life, is to be of service.
So we're looking usually, whenI'm talking about why, I'm
(29:38):
looking for those really loftyideals that we strive for.
They're things that are so muchbigger than ourselves that pull
us forward, like well-being andequality and peace and love and
joy and freedom, all of thosekinds of concepts.
So, when you're thinking ofconnecting the dots, why is that
so meaningful?
Kyle Roed (30:02):
I would say so.
For me it's two reasons.
Number one, it's like anauthentic expression of myself
and what I'm feeling.
So it's that aspect and it'sthat aspect and it helps me make
sense of the world right, justhelps me understand what's what
and why is just what's happening?
(30:23):
There's so much out there.
Dianne Allen (30:25):
So the authentic expression of yourself could be
freedom of.
Kyle Roed (30:32):
Yeah, freedom of, I would say freedom of freedom of
thought, freedom of expression.
Expression, you know the uh, asa man, the opportunity to
express emotion without judgment, right?
So there's some of that, I'msure there's some, you know my
therapist can unpack that later.
Dianne Allen (30:51):
We'll put that under the freedom umbrella.
And then your other thing saywhat it is again.
Kyle Roed (31:01):
It helps you make sense of the world.
Dianne Allen (31:03):
It helps you make sense of the world.
What does that bring for you?
Kyle Roed (31:07):
Yeah, yeah.
So, like, a lot of mysongwriting is very it's, it's
very visual.
It's very much around like,like, like interpreting a system
and of like, like, likeinterpreting nature and then
tying that into a relationshipand how those things are very
similar or or connected in someway, shape or form, and then
(31:27):
telling a story and within thatcontext, that's how it is and
then it represents itself in amusical phrase or lyrics or
something like that.
Dianne Allen (31:36):
It's very much poetic in that manner.
So making sense of the world,does that bring you joy or peace
, or is?
Kyle Roed (31:50):
it.
Yes, I would say, when I get itout and it's gone and I've put
it out into the world, then Ican breathe easier.
You can breathe easier.
That's how I would describe it.
Right, okay?
Dianne Allen (32:07):
We're just going to yeah, that's what For you
it's.
I'm breathing easier.
Let's just leave it at that,okay.
Kyle Roed (32:12):
Sounds good.
Dianne Allen (32:13):
So what you do on the inside, connecting the dots,
is your most compellinginternal self-motivator, like I
mentioned, that's the thing thatmakes you tick and why it's so
meaningful is kind of thatfreedom of speech and that huge
like I've connected the dots.
Again connecting the dots, butjust on a much grander scale, it
(32:37):
looks like you've got twolevels of connecting the dots
Connecting the dots withactually playing the music and
then actually tying it togetherin a song that brings you that
ah, right.
And so that's what I call aflow strategy knowing what you
do on the inside and why it's someaningful, because when you
(32:59):
can define what that is foryourself, this is the part that
you can now repeat, okay.
So I wonder if you now thinkabout your work, are you a dot
connector?
Kyle Roed (33:14):
Yes.
Dianne Allen (33:15):
When you're doing your work, yes, when I'm doing
the work I enjoy within my job.
Yes, for the most part, yes,yes, you're the dot connector
right and you have that sense ofah right that you were
mentioning, of making sense ofthings.
Kyle Roed (33:35):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (33:36):
There it is.
Kyle Roed (33:37):
Yes.
Dianne Allen (33:39):
Okay.
So, now we need to find whatthat is for yourself, and you
see how unique you are right.
I've walked a lot of peoplethrough figuring out their flow
strategy.
Never had one like yours.
Okay, and this is why I think Ilove teaching HR professionals
(33:59):
these steps, because not onlycan you use it for yourself, but
you now have a system you canwalk other people through
figuring out.
How do they deeply engage?
How can you now apply that toyour work?
Because I think, just becauseyou defined it, you're going to
be able to wait a minute.
I'm not going to just dive intothis project right now.
Let me just pause for a secondand think how can I connect the
dots?
How can I make sense of this?
Kyle Roed (34:22):
Fascinating.
Okay, Well, now I'm like soulsearingly questioning my
existence, so I don't know whereto take the podcast from here.
Now I'm just like now I'm, nowI'm, I'm just wrapped around
what this looks like.
So we're going to play that,the music where it's like you
(34:44):
know, hold, please hold, youknow.
Dianne Allen (34:47):
While you process.
That was a lot to process foryou.
Kyle Roed (34:50):
Yeah, no-transcript.
(35:39):
You're like, you're like in theslot, like you're like, you're
there in the zone, right In thezone, like you're feeling it and
uh, yeah, so really like, yeah,so really powerful exercise.
Um, thank you, uh, for sharingthat and yeah, a lot to unpack
there.
Dianne Allen (35:55):
I don't really know.
But I think that a lot.
Let me, let me.
Let me, let me tie the bowaround it, okay.
Kyle Roed (36:01):
All right, yeah, diane, just take over the
podcast, because I'm just goingto sit back.
I got to reflect on this one.
Dianne Allen (36:06):
Bottom line in a world of doing, okay, In a world
of doing.
The real question is have welost out on the importance of
being?
And a lot of times, when peopleare in their flow state, they
describe it as I really lovewhat I'm doing.
It's not like I'm doing, it'sjust like I'm being.
(36:29):
It's not like I'm doing, it'sjust like I'm being.
And so when you have,especially when you have,
purpose involved right, it doestake you to a different
dimension.
And so when you have peoplethat are washing fish, that that
that aren't connecting you knowhow, how could they be
(36:49):
differently while they're doingthat job?
How can people uniquely engagein a way that is just so juicy
for them?
And then you can just imagine,just by being in their flow
state, everyone around them isgoing to sense it.
We already went through themechanics of that.
(37:11):
Yeah, that's how I wouldmechanics of that, right yeah,
so that's how I would kind ofput a bow around it, like really
, how can we help people to bein a world of doing?
Kyle Roed (37:20):
I love it.
I love it.
I'm gonna leave it right thereand we could go through the
Rebel HR flash round, but I, Iwant to.
I want the audience to reflecton.
This is a pretty powerful tooland, I think, a really powerful
statement and I think we shouldall reflect on it.
I am going to encourageeverybody to click into the show
(37:45):
notes, check out the book Flow,unlock your Genius.
Love what you Do.
It's available now.
With that Diane.
I want to give you anopportunity to let people find
out where they can connect withyou, where they can learn more
and where best to find the book.
Dianne Allen (38:01):
Yeah, it's easy to find it on Amazon.
If you just go to Diane Allenand Flow, it usually pops up.
I just want everybody to knowthat there's a lot more in the
book than we just talked about,and there's a flow strategy
worksheet in there.
There's that Venn diagram.
(38:23):
Everything that we talked aboutis in the book, as well as with
a lot of stories of howdifferent people implemented it,
as well as instruction.
I'm a teacher at heart.
I can't help it, but I alsohave a cheat sheet at tinyurlcom
(38:43):
slash flowstate gift On thisweb page I have.
It's basically like the cliffnotes of everything we talked
about, as well as a couple ofvideos that help to, you know,
take everything that we talkedabout to another level, and
(39:06):
that's just a free gift for me.
Kyle Roed (39:09):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Diane.
Thank you for sharing yourknowledge and insight with us
today.
Really great content and Ican't wait to hear the audience
response.
Thank you.
Dianne Allen (39:19):
Thank me, I'm thank you, I love it.
Kyle Roed (39:28):
Thank God for editing .
All good Thanks, diane.
Take care.
All right.
That does it for the Rebel HRpodcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast, twitter at Rebel HR
guy or see our website atrebelhumanresourcescom.
(39:49):
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR Podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Dianne Allen (40:04):
Baby.
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back, Rebel HRcommunity.
This is going to be a fun one.
Today With us we have anamazing guest, Diana Allen.
She is a flow state thoughtleader, a violinist and an
(00:25):
author of the book that isavailable now.
The book is named Flow Unlockyour genius.
Love what you do.
Diane, thank you so much forjoining us.
Really excited for theconversation.
Welcome to the podcast.
Dianne Allen (00:39):
Thank you so much, fellow rebeler.
Kyle Roed (00:43):
I love it.
I love it and you know, beforeI hit record, we were just
talking, like I saw your, yournote come in.
You know, just asking about thepodcast.
I'm like, oh my gosh, we haveto talk, we have to do this.
So thank you for for carvingout the time in your busy
schedule.
I want to start off with thequestion that I ask almost every
author, and that is whatmotivated you to invest the time
(01:07):
, energy and, in some cases,heartburn of writing and
publishing your own book.
Dianne Allen (01:15):
Oh, my Quoted question.
Yeah, you know, I do a lot ofprofessional speaking and a part
of being a professional speakeris, well, you need to have a
book, and it's one of thosethings that I knew.
I had a book in me.
I just had to sit down andwrite it.
And she was saying, yeah, yougot to do like, just do 250
(01:45):
words a day.
And I was like, uh-uh, thatdoesn't work.
With Diane Allen, I knew how Iget into flow already, so I was
like, yeah, no 250 words a day.
That sounds like red light,green light, red light, green
light.
I sat down the last two weeksof December in 2023, and I just
(02:06):
wrote it.
I just that's all I did.
Uh, we are low key holidaypeople, so it was perfect time.
It was quiet and I um, I justpounded it out.
I knew that I didn't have to doa lot of research.
It was already what was withinme.
That was the easy part.
The hard part was working withthe editor and the layout person
(02:29):
, because we had really highstandards.
Kyle Roed (02:34):
Really high standards .
Dianne Allen (02:35):
I had no idea how important the layout of a book
is to make it readable.
The layout of a book is to makeit readable had no idea.
And if you think about in music, like, we have form in music,
right, and that's kind of whatkeeps things together right In
the workplace.
We have guardrails, right, andyou know, if it's just always a
(02:58):
free for all, like you know,sometimes those guardrails
really help to hone ideas, right.
And I had no idea, like howmuch the layout of the book, uh,
we worked really hard on that.
We had, like I don't know,almost 20 different versions of
the cover, like we worked reallyhard on it.
But, um, I had pre-sold thebook to Alaska Sherm, uh, for
(03:24):
their conference that we justdid in late October 2024.
And it was so exciting to bethere.
300 people received my book,with a wonderful sponsor, and
they paid for the books and itwas just the most incredibly
rewarding experience now thatall the hard work is over,
incredibly rewarding experience,now that all the hard work is
(03:47):
over.
Kyle Roed (03:49):
I love it.
So as a as a, as a fellowmusician and I use air quotes
when I when I say that, comparedto your experience and I, you
know, I I think it's so it'sjust such a corollary experience
to like songwriting, right,where you, you, you, like you,
you, you like you, you, you putyour, your heart and soul and
like your creative energy intosomething that that means so
(04:12):
much to you.
And then and then, but then youhave to go through the work of
like crafting, right, and it'slike and like like rewriting,
and you, you open yourself up,that really vulnerable right,
because you're, you'reessentially like, you're writing
your truth down, and then andthen you're opening yourself up
to these kind of these externalinfluences, right, to put it
into something that's palatablefor a general audience.
Dianne Allen (04:35):
So there's a contributor to my book.
Um, she was, uh, a Yale lawprofessor for, I think, 30 years
and I met her.
I did a masterclass for a groupof amateur musicians and she
was one of those people and partof the masterclass was learning
(04:59):
what is your flow state?
How do you get into it?
How can it help you as amusician state?
How do you get into it?
How can it help you as amusician?
And she contacted me and shesaid, diane, I have had this
complete flashback over myentire career.
I could see how Flo kept meafloat throughout all of the
(05:19):
hardships that I dealt withwithout, you know, compromising
and not compromising her quality, but actually flow helped her
to enhance her quality.
As you imagine, the Yale Lawprofessor has to be at the top
of their game all the time, andshe said that flow was always
the answer.
So she was able to write thisbeautiful letter that we
(05:39):
included in the book that really, really highlighted practical
application of being in the flowstate, and she said that she
had written two books herself inher career.
She's now retired and she said,boy, if I hadn't done that, it
would have been as if I neverdid the work, like because you
(06:02):
have a solid, tangible thing.
It's like I was there, I did it, this is it right.
And as I was nearing the end ofthe entire process, I had that
same feeling like, oh mygoodness, look at this, it is a
tangible thing, it is here, likethere's something very
emotional about it, but thankyou for asking is here like it.
Kyle Roed (06:27):
there's something very emotional about it, but, um
, thank you for asking, I get it, I get it.
No, I get it, and I think so,what?
Um, you know what?
What fascinates me about, uh,about individuals like yourself,
that that take, you know, takethese, these, these nebulous
ideas, and this creativity andthis, this, this body of you
know work, and I'm assuming,which is kind of in lifetime of
work, and then and then, to putthat into something that is
(06:48):
tangible and that can be sharedwith others.
I think, I think, there's suchpower in that and I think it's,
I think, it's same comment on,you know, musicians, authors, um
, you know, speakers, uh, and,and, and people like yourselves.
And I'm, I'm, I'm curious, um,as, as you've done this work and
(07:09):
as you've, you've done, youknow, done the research and
teaching on on flow state, um,what are, what are the things
that, that, what, what are thethings that excites you the most
about this work?
What really keeps you comingback, day in and day out, to do
this?
Dianne Allen (07:27):
Yeah, thank you for asking.
So first of all, we have tocircle back to that word
nebulous, because the entirethought leadership that I have
on Flow State is to takesomething that seems nebulous
and makes it into a very, veryuseful tool, and to be able to
(07:49):
share that with people is whatkeeps me coming back.
I just mentioned that Irecently came back from Alaska.
There was a gentleman in theaudience who I don't know
exactly what his role is, but hesees a lot of the data in the
(08:09):
fishing industry.
Okay, these are people who haveto wash the fish.
Right, the fish is coming offthe boat.
They're washing the fish.
Then you get these people whoare doing this aggressive
smashing process very, veryphysical work and he said that
the people who have the mostmundane job, okay, which is the
(08:30):
people who are washing the fish,they have the highest rate of
injuries and everything that wetalked about, about what the
flow state is, everything thatwe talked about about what the
flow state is, how do youtrigger it?
How do you activate it withinyourself.
He realized that's what's beenmissing for these people,
(08:52):
because there's nothing thatthey're connecting with.
They are completely disengaged.
They are just like a machine.
There's no skill necessary, andthe thing about flow is it is
not a mindset, it is a mindstate.
It's an optimal state of mindwhen people feel their best and
they perform their best.
(09:13):
I like to describe it when yourgenius and your heart become
one, and the neuroscience offlow is such that it optimizes
our brain.
So there are a number of peakperformance hormones that get
released when we're in flowAnandamide, endorphins, dopamine
, serotonin and norepinephrineand because of this we
(09:36):
experience euphoria, motivation,peak performance and happiness.
This and so, when people are inflow, they're oftentimes at the
, the psychologist.
So flow falls under the, theumbrella of positive psychology,
the first psychologist who didextensive research into flow.
(09:57):
His name is MihalyCsikszentmihalyi, and he he's
got a lot of different ideasabout how to get into flow.
One of the ones that I have usedfrequently at different
conferences and events with HRprofessionals is the skill
challenge purpose model.
So at the if you just got tothink about a Venn diagram,
(10:22):
three circles, skill, challenge,purpose Okay.
And so if we take a look atthese people who are washing
fish, okay, not much skillnecessary.
Okay, not much challengehappening and not much purpose
going on either, right.
And so if you remove purposefor a second, you've got a skill
(10:45):
.
Okay, if a skill, if you, ifyou have a skill but it's not
challenged, nothing is going toignite.
If you have a challenge withouta skill, nothing is going to
ignite.
It's the two together thatignites flow and brings out the
best in people.
And when you add purpose to it,it just takes it to a whole new
level.
(11:06):
So this gentleman in Alaskalooking at how can we lower the
rate of these injuries with thepeople who wash fish, he's like
the answer is in this model.
He's like I see it.
He couldn't quite put hisfinger on it.
He said I'm thinking we need togamify it, we need to increase
(11:26):
their skill, we need to givethem a challenge, maybe find a
personal purpose, like he couldtell that there was something
there that would help him toflip the switch for these people
so that they can be lessinjured.
The last thing I'll share withhis story is that he said that
the people who are doing likeall the smashing and all like
the heavy physical work,sweating and you know, like
(11:50):
really heavy physical work, hesaid, they actually have less
injuries than the people justwashing the fish and it's
because they have their wholeself involved in some way and I
imagine that physicality andthat.
Oh, the other piece he said wasthat there was a feedback
mechanism.
They could see in front of themthe results of their work.
(12:12):
They could see the pounding andhow it accumulated into however
they capture the fish.
Kyle Roed (12:20):
Interesting.
Dianne Allen (12:22):
Amazing right.
Kyle Roed (12:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah cute .
I'm just envisioning DeadliestCatch and the Bon Jovi theme
song and and and all of this.
You could, you could have somefun with this, but you know I I
want to go back to something yousaid that you know it's.
It's not a mindset, it's a mindstate, and I think so often you
(12:44):
know you see these or you oryou hear these, or or or or get
advice that, like you, just youjust need to get in the right
mindset, you need to get in theright frame of mind or you need
to coach yourself into a flowstate.
So are you saying that that'snot really the case, that the
(13:06):
flow state is more of a state ofmind versus trying to coach,
coach yourself or convinceyourself to get quote into flow?
Dianne Allen (13:14):
Correct.
So, uh, let's just go.
Let me just finish like kind ofgoing through, like what
exactly is flow?
Kyle Roed (13:21):
Right Cause.
Dianne Allen (13:21):
I've already talked about the neuroscience of
it.
When we say go with the flow,that's a mind state, and usually
people are just saying, uh,just relax, like you know, roll
with it, that kind of thing.
And when you are in flow, a lotof people do describe it as
that feeling of just you know,relaxing and going with it.
(13:43):
But it's different, because Ialready mentioned mindset.
Okay, when you think aboutgoing with the flow as a mindset
, that is passive, but when youare in flow, it is actually
active.
I already mentioned at theintersection of skill, challenge
and purpose, that's whatignites flow.
(14:04):
That is very action-based, okay.
So the key indicators of beingin flow let me re-say that again
, the key indicators of being inflow help people to realize
when they're in it.
A lot of times, people don'trealize that they're in flow
(14:25):
until they're out of flow, andit's not until they're out of
flow that they realize thebenefits of being in it.
So how do you know then?
Right?
Well, you do lose sense of timeand it's because you just love
what you're doing.
Kyle Roed (14:38):
I know you've experienced that right.
Dianne Allen (14:39):
Yeah, you lose a sense of self, which is really
kind of funny thing to say.
Like, what does that mean?
Losing a sense of self?
And you know, if we go a littlebit deeper into the
neurobiology of flow, it'sbecause there are things that
get turned on in your brain.
There are things that getturned off and the peak
performance hormones that getturned on.
I already mentioned right, butthe thing that gets turned off
(15:01):
in your brain is your fight orflight response and your inner
critic, your inner critic, isgone, and so people feel
uninhibited and they feelfearless, and when they're in
that moment, a lot of ideas andinsights come in from out of the
blue, because we're notfiltering them.
Ideas and insights coming infrom out of the blue is another
(15:23):
key indicator of being in flow,things coming together with a
sense of ease.
Kyle, have you ever gotten moredone in 30 minutes than you had
in the last three days?
Kyle Roed (15:32):
Okay, Not if my boss asks no, never had that happen.
I'm always super productive.
Dianne Allen (15:41):
That's so funny and I usually do get a chuckle
when I say that one, because alot of people experience that
and that is being in flow, okay,and it does seem nebulous and
elusive.
That is being in flow, okay,and it does seem nebulous and
elusive.
A couple more key indicatorsInstead of being in a negative
feedback loop, kind of like thepeople washing fish right, where
(16:01):
you have to use willpower,right and discipline to do the
work that drains you and thenyou have to recover at the end
of the day, right, and you getinto this negative feedback loop
.
When you're in flow, it is sorewarding that it refuels you
and you get into a positivefeedback loop.
And the positive feedback loopis, you know to understand.
(16:23):
That is one thing, but itsimpact on mental health is
something that Adam Grant,organizational psychologist,
really highlighted, especiallyduring the pandemic.
He wrote an article in the NewYork Times, he gave a TED Talk
on this very topic and he talkedabout the mental health
spectrum and how, halfwaybetween depression and
(16:44):
flourishing, there's this midwaypoint where you're fine but
you're not fine.
You're functional but you can'tget motivated, you're just kind
of blah.
And so, according to Adam Grant, the antidote to go from
languishing to flourishing is toget into your flow state.
Kyle Roed (17:01):
Absolutely.
I think, yeah, I love, yeah, Iread the.
You know the languishing, youknow, and certainly experienced
that myself in.
You know, sitting at home, youknow, watching COVID cases light
up around the world.
But you know, I think, I thinkit's fascinating.
So, and and this goes back toyou know the, the fight or
flight, inner critic being shutoff, and you know so much of,
(17:25):
you know so much of that, thatresearch on the brain is the.
You know that that that fight orflight it shuts off, you know,
shuts off creativity, becauseit's all about your body trying
to, like, save yourself.
You know, and you know it's,it's, it's old wiring from, you
know, caveman days, that thatisn't necessarily effective in
the current world that weoperate in as human beings.
(17:47):
And you know but I mean I'msure many of of us can, can
reflect on the times when, uh,it's almost like, it's almost
like you let go right and you're, you're in a situation where
it's like, okay, I give it up tothe universe or god or whatever
, and I'm just gonna let, and,and then stuff starts to happen
right, like, like, you do startto you get that spark of
(18:10):
creativity, or you or you findsome ask some joyful aspect of
your life that, um, you werekind of, you know, missing
before and and and you hearthese stories and I think, I
think many of us haveexperienced that.
So that so my question is yeahgo ahead.
Dianne Allen (18:27):
That's my claim to fame is like how can we take
that and make it real in ourlives, right, right and so, um.
So I'm holding up a picture ofthe orchestra I used to play in.
So I was the lead violinist,the concert master of an
orchestra for 15 years.
Okay, that's second in commandto the conductor, and it didn't
matter how I showed up that day.
However, I showed up.
That was going to have a rippleeffect throughout the orchestra
(18:50):
and the audience, because Ialso was kind of like part of my
role was it was all nonverbalcommunication, but I did also
interact with the audience.
Okay, so it was just not justthe orchestra, right?
So I had to be at the top of mygame.
I always had to show up, andpeople expect musicians to get
(19:13):
into the music, right, we're notgoing to be disengaged
employees on a stage becausenobody would come to the concert
.
Kyle Roed (19:23):
Right, right.
You're literally on stage.
Dianne Allen (19:26):
Literally on stage and you're expected to get into
the music, because that createsa transformational experience
for everyone, right?
Kyle Roed (19:35):
yeah, yeah, so I think you know I'll I'll make a
comment on that.
So as a.
So not everybody, not manypeople know this, but I used to
play cello in an orchestra, likeback in school, so I'm nowhere
near your accomplishment, but Iwill tell to the, to the
listeners the lead violinist isa big freaking deal and
everybody in the orchestra hasto follow the energy and the
(20:02):
down to the way that the bow isbeing moved across the violin,
because that's all part of theperformance, it's part of the,
the energy of the music, andit's and you're not just
watching the conductor, you'rewatching that lead violinist
because they set the performance.
It's part of the energy of themusic and you're not just
watching the conductor, you'rewatching that lead violinist
because they set the tone.
So it's very similar to like aworkplace where you've got you
know, you've got like a lineleader or a line manager.
(20:23):
That's like they're taking whatthe CEO says and they're
actually deploying it throughoutthe workplace.
That's how I would describethat for those that aren't like
orchestra nerds, like me.
Dianne Allen (20:34):
I am going to get that clip because you're the
first person that, like I'veever had a conversation with,
that we're recording.
That could actually articulateexactly, and I'd like to
describe it as as, like, if theconductor is the CEO, I'm
basically interpreting what theconductor is doing to make it
accessible for the orchestramembers.
Kyle Roed (20:57):
Right, cause you cause, cause the orchestra.
You're watching the nonverbalmannerisms of everybody around
you, especially that lead violin, because you're also looking at
the music and you don't haveall the music memorized, so you
have.
So you're watching like sixdifferent inputs at the same
time and so much of it.
You're actually intuitivelyunderstanding the energy that's
coming at you from everybodyelse around you.
(21:19):
So it's, it's a very likeorganic, it's.
It's hard to explain, like it'sreally hard for me to explain
it verbally, but that's, that'swhat it's like.
It's like you're, you'reactually sensing the energy.
Dianne Allen (21:28):
Yes, around you.
Kyle Roed (21:29):
That's what it's, that's what I love.
That's what I loved about it,right.
Dianne Allen (21:33):
Like it's such a cool experience Right.
So, because I do speak for a lotof leadership events when you
are getting into the music, whenyou are getting into your work
like a musician gets into themusic, are getting into your
work like a musician gets intothe music, I don't care if
(21:54):
you're washing fish, you'recutting pipe or you're having a
high-end brainstorming meetingto revolutionize whatever right.
There is an energy there.
Maybe it looks like enthusiasm,Maybe it looks like your friend
who on Friday night, has likethis thing where every Friday
night they make homemade pizza.
(22:15):
That's like they talk about itall week.
They're excited about it allweek.
Maybe one week they invite youover.
You're not so into pizza butfor some reason you're there.
You can't get.
You get caught up in theenthusiasm.
So flow is basically the energyof enthusiasm and, according to
(22:35):
the Heart Math Institute, okay,when you are in flow, you are
using your signature strengths.
Okay, we have to go into howpeople get into flow, because
when you get into how people getinto flow, you are identifying
their signature strengths.
But you're also identifyingpurpose.
Okay, and when you are comingfrom a place, whether you're
(22:56):
getting into the music, makingthose pizzas, washing fish or
getting into your job, maybeit's that Excel spreadsheet
where you lose all sense of time.
Okay, Cause you just love whatyou're doing that you're
igniting the 40,000 neurons inyour heart and, according to the
HeartMath Institute, theelectromagnetic field of the
(23:16):
heart reaches out 60% greaterthan the brain's electromagnetic
field, and it reaches out threefeet all around you, which
means everybody around yousenses your energy.
Now all those people think upto you.
Now they're exuding three footcircles.
(23:38):
This is literally theenergetics of a ripple effect,
and so, as I'm leading theorchestra non-verbally, I'm
doing it all energetically.
I trigger it by leading myselfto get into flow.
If I could lead myself to getinto flow, I could lead myself
to get into flow.
If I could lead myself to getinto flow, I could lead others
to get into theirs.
And when you have a large groupof people, whether it's three
(23:59):
people or more, the hundreds youknow, between the orchestra and
the audience you're igniting asynergistic state of group flow.
Kyle Roed (24:15):
Love it.
So there is real science tothis energy woo-woo stuff we all
talk about.
Dianne Allen (24:20):
Yes, okay, listen, we have to make the most of our
time here.
So Kyle and I were having aconversation before we started
recording.
He said I get into the musicall the time.
I get into flow when I'm in mymusic.
I'd like to experience thatmore at work.
Okay, yeah.
So what I want to do is walkKyle through figuring that out
(24:44):
and I'm going to use threequestions.
So these are the threequestions Basically, just to
give like a really quickbackground.
I had a day where I couldn't getinto the music, freaked me out.
That night I sat on the couch,literally like humiliated,
because I felt like, okay, nowmy job security and my
reputation are at stake, becauseI played a concert where I was
(25:05):
going through the motions and Iwas very visible in that concert
.
It was not good.
So if only everyone were asconscientious as a musician
about being engaged in theirwork.
Right, like you have to beright.
So the that night is the night.
(25:27):
That was my defining moment,where, where my thought
leadership, you know, was born.
Like what, what was I doing?
Okay, so the first question isokay, let's, we're going to,
we're going to use the threeprompts that I came up with that
night to help Kyle figure outwhere.
First, we're going to justfigure out how to.
How do you uniquely get intoflow when you're either writing
(25:50):
music or playing music, okay, sothe first question is it's just
where?
Just locate it?
Where are you?
Kyle Roed (25:57):
Like like where am I when I hit that state?
Dianne Allen (26:00):
No, yeah, like, like for me, like, if I'm
practicing, I'm here in my roomRight, so like where?
Kyle Roed (26:09):
where are you?
Do you have a location?
Yeah, I'm usually in the,usually in the living room
looking out the window.
You know like I have somepicture of nature somewhere.
Dianne Allen (26:15):
Okay.
Kyle Roed (26:16):
Somehow.
Dianne Allen (26:16):
Those are great details.
Okay, so he just describedwhere he was in the environment.
Okay, what are you doing?
This is, like you know, for me,I'm playing the violin, right?
It's just as basic as that,right?
So what are you doing?
Kyle Roed (26:31):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (26:31):
You can pick, playing or writing music.
Which which one do you feel hasmore juice in it?
Kyle Roed (26:37):
Um playing, yeah, Playing guitar.
Dianne Allen (26:39):
So you're playing guitar.
That's what you're doing on theoutside.
Okay, so the first question iswhere are you?
Second question is what are youdoing?
But there's a two-part questionhere.
What are you doing on theoutside?
You're playing guitar.
What are you doing on theinside?
I'm going to give you a coupleexamples.
Okay, let's say where you areis in your office.
(27:01):
What you're doing on theoutside is working on an Excel
spreadsheet.
What you're doing on the insidecould be any number of things.
You could be problem solving,you could be strategizing, you
could be visualizing right A lotof different things.
So, when you think about whatare you doing when you're
(27:22):
playing the guitar, what are youdoing on the inside?
What is that for you?
Kyle Roed (27:30):
Well, this is interesting.
So for me it's completing the.
It's connecting the dotsbetween the patterns that I hear
in my head or visually seesomehow, and making that come
(27:51):
out of the guitar.
Dianne Allen (27:54):
Connecting with us .
Kyle Roed (27:55):
Yeah, like connect.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good wayto say it.
It's like, uh, it's like taking, taking a known pattern and
making something new with it, Iguess that's how I would
describe that.
Dianne Allen (28:04):
Yeah, that means something to you.
Kyle Roed (28:06):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (28:07):
Okay.
Kyle Roed (28:07):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (28:07):
And this is what we're talking about.
When you Okay, yeah, and thisis what we're talking about.
When you know, we talk aboutwhat.
What makes people tick, what'stheir signature strength, right,
what's their um secret sauce?
For you, it's connecting thedots.
That's it, okay.
That's your unique way, okay,or what you're doing, okay.
Now the last question isanother.
(28:29):
You know we've heard thisquestion a zillion times why,
okay, why is connecting the dotsso meaningful?
Do you want me to give you anexample?
First?
Sure, let's go back to thespreadsheet.
Right, where somebody is is intheir office.
What they're doing on theoutside is working on an Excel
(28:53):
spreadsheet.
What they're doing on theinside, let's say, let's say
they're problem solving.
Why is that problem solving someaningful?
And they might say, well, it'sbecause you know, when you solve
the problem, it's just, youknow it's a big relief, right,
and I get to contribute, right.
So then you could say, well,why is that important?
(29:13):
Well, solving the problem andcontributing, you know that's
being of service, and and ifthey really light up, you know
like, that's, that's like areally important thing in their
life, is to be of service.
So we're looking usually, whenI'm talking about why, I'm
(29:38):
looking for those really loftyideals that we strive for.
They're things that are so muchbigger than ourselves that pull
us forward, like well-being andequality and peace and love and
joy and freedom, all of thosekinds of concepts.
So, when you're thinking ofconnecting the dots, why is that
so meaningful?
Kyle Roed (30:02):
I would say so.
For me it's two reasons.
Number one, it's like anauthentic expression of myself
and what I'm feeling.
So it's that aspect and it'sthat aspect and it helps me make
sense of the world right, justhelps me understand what's what
and why is just what's happening?
(30:23):
There's so much out there.
Dianne Allen (30:25):
So the authentic expression of yourself could be
freedom of.
Kyle Roed (30:32):
Yeah, freedom of, I would say freedom of freedom of
thought, freedom of expression.
Expression, you know the uh, asa man, the opportunity to
express emotion without judgment, right?
So there's some of that, I'msure there's some, you know my
therapist can unpack that later.
Dianne Allen (30:51):
We'll put that under the freedom umbrella.
And then your other thing saywhat it is again.
Kyle Roed (31:01):
It helps you make sense of the world.
Dianne Allen (31:03):
It helps you make sense of the world.
What does that bring for you?
Kyle Roed (31:07):
Yeah, yeah.
So, like, a lot of mysongwriting is very it's, it's
very visual.
It's very much around like,like, like interpreting a system
and of like, like, likeinterpreting nature and then
tying that into a relationshipand how those things are very
similar or or connected in someway, shape or form, and then
(31:27):
telling a story and within thatcontext, that's how it is and
then it represents itself in amusical phrase or lyrics or
something like that.
Dianne Allen (31:36):
It's very much poetic in that manner.
So making sense of the world,does that bring you joy or peace
, or is?
Kyle Roed (31:50):
it.
Yes, I would say, when I get itout and it's gone and I've put
it out into the world, then Ican breathe easier.
You can breathe easier.
That's how I would describe it.
Right, okay?
Dianne Allen (32:07):
We're just going to yeah, that's what For you
it's.
I'm breathing easier.
Let's just leave it at that,okay.
Kyle Roed (32:12):
Sounds good.
Dianne Allen (32:13):
So what you do on the inside, connecting the dots,
is your most compellinginternal self-motivator, like I
mentioned, that's the thing thatmakes you tick and why it's so
meaningful is kind of thatfreedom of speech and that huge
like I've connected the dots.
Again connecting the dots, butjust on a much grander scale, it
(32:37):
looks like you've got twolevels of connecting the dots
Connecting the dots withactually playing the music and
then actually tying it togetherin a song that brings you that
ah, right.
And so that's what I call aflow strategy knowing what you
do on the inside and why it's someaningful, because when you
(32:59):
can define what that is foryourself, this is the part that
you can now repeat, okay.
So I wonder if you now thinkabout your work, are you a dot
connector?
Kyle Roed (33:14):
Yes.
Dianne Allen (33:15):
When you're doing your work, yes, when I'm doing
the work I enjoy within my job.
Yes, for the most part, yes,yes, you're the dot connector
right and you have that sense ofah right that you were
mentioning, of making sense ofthings.
Kyle Roed (33:35):
Yeah.
Dianne Allen (33:36):
There it is.
Kyle Roed (33:37):
Yes.
Dianne Allen (33:39):
Okay.
So, now we need to find whatthat is for yourself, and you
see how unique you are right.
I've walked a lot of peoplethrough figuring out their flow
strategy.
Never had one like yours.
Okay, and this is why I think Ilove teaching HR professionals
(33:59):
these steps, because not onlycan you use it for yourself, but
you now have a system you canwalk other people through
figuring out.
How do they deeply engage?
How can you now apply that toyour work?
Because I think, just becauseyou defined it, you're going to
be able to wait a minute.
I'm not going to just dive intothis project right now.
Let me just pause for a secondand think how can I connect the
dots?
How can I make sense of this?
Kyle Roed (34:22):
Fascinating.
Okay, Well, now I'm like soulsearingly questioning my
existence, so I don't know whereto take the podcast from here.
Now I'm just like now I'm, nowI'm, I'm just wrapped around
what this looks like.
So we're going to play that,the music where it's like you
(34:44):
know, hold, please hold, youknow.
Dianne Allen (34:47):
While you process.
That was a lot to process foryou.
Kyle Roed (34:50):
Yeah, no-transcript.
(35:39):
You're like, you're like in theslot, like you're like, you're
there in the zone, right In thezone, like you're feeling it and
uh, yeah, so really like, yeah,so really powerful exercise.
Um, thank you, uh, for sharingthat and yeah, a lot to unpack
there.
Dianne Allen (35:55):
I don't really know.
But I think that a lot.
Let me, let me.
Let me, let me tie the bowaround it, okay.
Kyle Roed (36:01):
All right, yeah, diane, just take over the
podcast, because I'm just goingto sit back.
I got to reflect on this one.
Dianne Allen (36:06):
Bottom line in a world of doing, okay, In a world
of doing.
The real question is have welost out on the importance of
being?
And a lot of times, when peopleare in their flow state, they
describe it as I really lovewhat I'm doing.
It's not like I'm doing, it'sjust like I'm being.
(36:29):
It's not like I'm doing, it'sjust like I'm being.
And so when you have,especially when you have,
purpose involved right, it doestake you to a different
dimension.
And so when you have peoplethat are washing fish, that that
that aren't connecting you knowhow, how could they be
(36:49):
differently while they're doingthat job?
How can people uniquely engagein a way that is just so juicy
for them?
And then you can just imagine,just by being in their flow
state, everyone around them isgoing to sense it.
We already went through themechanics of that.
(37:11):
Yeah, that's how I wouldmechanics of that, right yeah,
so that's how I would kind ofput a bow around it, like really
, how can we help people to bein a world of doing?
Kyle Roed (37:20):
I love it.
I love it.
I'm gonna leave it right thereand we could go through the
Rebel HR flash round, but I, Iwant to.
I want the audience to reflecton.
This is a pretty powerful tooland, I think, a really powerful
statement and I think we shouldall reflect on it.
I am going to encourageeverybody to click into the show
(37:45):
notes, check out the book Flow,unlock your Genius.
Love what you Do.
It's available now.
With that Diane.
I want to give you anopportunity to let people find
out where they can connect withyou, where they can learn more
and where best to find the book.
Dianne Allen (38:01):
Yeah, it's easy to find it on Amazon.
If you just go to Diane Allenand Flow, it usually pops up.
I just want everybody to knowthat there's a lot more in the
book than we just talked about,and there's a flow strategy
worksheet in there.
There's that Venn diagram.
(38:23):
Everything that we talked aboutis in the book, as well as with
a lot of stories of howdifferent people implemented it,
as well as instruction.
I'm a teacher at heart.
I can't help it, but I alsohave a cheat sheet at tinyurlcom
(38:43):
slash flowstate gift On thisweb page I have.
It's basically like the cliffnotes of everything we talked
about, as well as a couple ofvideos that help to, you know,
take everything that we talkedabout to another level, and
(39:06):
that's just a free gift for me.
Kyle Roed (39:09):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Diane.
Thank you for sharing yourknowledge and insight with us
today.
Really great content and Ican't wait to hear the audience
response.
Thank you.
Dianne Allen (39:19):
Thank me, I'm thank you, I love it.
Kyle Roed (39:28):
Thank God for editing .
All good Thanks, diane.
Take care.
All right.
That does it for the Rebel HRpodcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast, twitter at Rebel HR
guy or see our website atrebelhumanresourcescom.
(39:49):
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR Podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Dianne Allen (40:04):
Baby.
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