December 11, 2024 • 47 mins
Unlock the secrets to managing workplace stress with insights from Sam Smelter, author of the upcoming book "Workplace Healers." Discover how energy plays a crucial role in personal well-being and professional performance as we explore the challenges HR professionals face. We promise to equip you with strategies to create supportive environments that prioritize the well-being of both employees and HR practitioners, giving you tools to handle the pressures of today's demanding workplace.
Join us as we navigate the emotional landscape of HR roles, often likened to healing professions, yet lacking the necessary boundaries to prevent burnout. Sam shares her journey of overcoming skepticism about holistic practices, revealing how embracing mindfulness and energy exercises can transform personal and professional lives. By setting energetic boundaries and balancing yin and yang energies, we learn how to maintain a positive outlook and sustain long-term effectiveness in the HR field.
Explore the power of mindfulness in the workplace as we rethink job structures, workspace design, and organizational culture. From establishing personal wellness practices to designing thoughtful workspaces, we aim to foster a harmonious work-life environment. Listen in for a reflection on mindfulness and energy balance, and gain access to resources like the Heart Center's eight-week disengagement detox and distance healing sessions, designed to support HR professionals in achieving greater well-being and productivity.
Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work. Please connect to continue the conversation!
https://twitter.com/rebelhrguy
https://www.facebook.com/rebelhrpodcast
http://www.kyleroed.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-roed/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I like the word energy, because we know energy
is real.
It charges your phone, it givesus fuel.
You talk about that from ascientific standpoint.
It makes sense that you wouldhave energy in your body.
That's why you exercise and youeat.
You're fueling yourself up,you're generating energy, and
where is the lesson?
For us to care for it?
And that's where I started torealize there was a massive gap.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we
talk to HR innovators about allthings people, leadership.
If you're looking for places tofind about new ways to think
about the world of work, this isthe podcast for you.
Please subscribe to yourfavorite podcast listening
platform today and leave us areview.
Rebel on HR Rebels.
(00:42):
Rebel on HR Rebels.
Welcome back Rebel HR listeners.
Really, really excited towelcome back to the Rebel HR
podcast Sam Smelter.
You may remember, Sam, we hadher way back in episode 35,
Weird but Effective HR.
She is just an awesome, awesomeperson and I invited her back
(01:09):
to talk about all sorts ofthings related to the workplace.
She has a book coming out inJune of 2022 called Workplace
Healers and she has a podcastcalled the Heart of it Podcast.
Welcome back to the show, Sam.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Thank you so much, Kyle.
I'm so excited to be here.
I loved our previousconversation and looking forward
to continuing it today.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Absolutely, and I'm just extremely excited to
reconnect and it's been almost ayear since we last spoke and we
were talking before I hitrecord.
It's like a lot has happenedthis year, but I also feel like
it still kind of feels the sameand so it'll be.
It'd just be great to kind ofcatch up and see where you're at
(01:47):
.
One of the things that reallyprompted this, this discussion,
came from our community members,and you know I've been been
talking to quite a few of youand you know I love discussing
different topics with ourlisteners and getting connected
to the HR community.
But there was a common themethat has kind of continued to
(02:08):
come up and that has been how doI manage all this stress and
how do I help my employeesmanage it?
But then how do I personallywork through all of the kind of
the darkness of HR and this andscared employees and the
challenges of today, and it justit seems like a lot of HR
(02:30):
practitioners out there justfeel a lot of weight and so I
want to talk about that a littlebit.
You know, I think you know wetalked about this in our last
episode a little bit, but I wantto do a little bit of a deep
dive into your approach onhelping the workplace be more
comfortable, not only foremployees, but also for HR
professionals.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, and you know, kyle, I think you started the
conversation just perfectly bysaying that you know, a year ago
, you know a year has passed butwe have kind of been treading
water per se.
And I think even when we hadthat initial conversation, we
were chatting and almostplayfully like looking at
tactics to kind of just navigatewhat we thought was going to be
(03:13):
hopefully fingers crossed ashort burst in our added
workload and so much so.
And I can tell you that even ifI look at my clients in the
last week, I have people that Iwas working with when we were
recording the first time comingback because it's just too heavy
and they can't handle it andeven the tools that we did to
(03:34):
get them to be sustaining arejust not enough anymore.
They're asking for furtherassistance.
And you know, when we talkabout stress management, I mean
like we didn't have that figuredout before all these things
happened, like that was on allof our lists for corporate
wellness, like figure out astress management program that's
effective so that we can haveengaged and productive employees
(03:56):
, and then we'll be part of thatat some point as well.
And now look at the climate, andI love that you said, the dark
side of HR.
The whole world is just kind ofin this dark, heavy place and
as HR professionals we areholding the brunt of it,
especially in the world ofbusiness.
And I feel like I just thinkback to our first conversation
(04:20):
and it was so fun and light.
And now it does.
It feels so heavy because thisis the reality for so many
people and it hurts me whenpeople come into my office
because I'm happy they feel safehere, but the fact that, like
outside of there, they have toput up some massive armor
because they're beingresponsible for so many things
(04:42):
and look to for so many thingsthat they like, we just none of
us planned for this, absolutelyyeah, and I think I think you
use the right term.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know it's.
It's that heaviness it's, youknow, and I mean you turn on the
news and you see all sorts ofnegative negativity.
You walk in your office andthere's somebody waiting by your
door with like, hey, I got totell you about this.
This is really messed up.
You know, and I mean that youknow we deal with that so much
in our in our day to day, and Ithink one of the biggest
challenges that, um, you know Ireally struggled with,
(05:15):
especially earlier in my career,was we take all that on Right
and I think most of us, most ofus in HR, get into it because we
want to help.
We come from that servicemindset where we want to help
people.
In general, most of us likepeople.
If you've been in HR longenough, maybe your thoughts have
shifted that negativity.
(05:46):
If you just kind of, if youjust keep it in and you don't
have some sort of way to to dealwith that and and
compartmentalize that, or or youknow, you know, put those types
of interactions intoperspective.
It's just, it just sucks.
It can be really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know one of the thingsthat, things that and forgive me
, I won't completely retell thisstory because I think I did
mention it on the first episode.
But you know, my pathwaystarted with the fact that I
wanted to figure out employeeengagement, starting with myself
, because I found myself alwaysroutinely ending up in this
(06:23):
place where I couldn't be ofultimate service, I couldn't
help the people.
That I was all inspired to do.
I realized that that drivedidn't last for an eternity and
I was terrified of that naturalevolution where we see what you
talk about jokingly, but we allknow you've been in there long
enough and all of a sudden youropinion is just a little more
pessimistic and it just slowlygets to a point and then you
(06:45):
retire, kind of thing in the HR.
And when I was on that path itled me to Eastern modalities.
So for the last three, fouryears I've been studying and
doing certificates in somethingcalled medical Qigong, which
sounds really woo woo.
It's just a branch oftraditional Chinese medicine.
(07:07):
But what fascinated me aboutthis and in relation to the work
that we do as HR practitioners,is that it focuses on something
called the energetic body.
It focuses on the fact thatwe're more than just blood and
skin and bones, and we're alsomore than just this soul that's
going to go to whatever yourbelief is on an afterlife, that
(07:28):
there is something that makesyou, kyle, you and me, sam, and
why there's connection and whythere's dynamic and why there
are people that are a culturalfit and not.
It gave a tangible definitionto those things by defining
energy and the dynamics of myenergy interacting with your
energy, and that's why we haveconflict and that's why we have
(07:49):
team building and that's why allthese things that we've been
doing it gave an actual physicalcontext to it that I could
describe.
Now, what I discovered whiledoing this work is that HR
practitioners because we carefor people so much we're
technically in a healingcapacity, but we don't classify
it that way is that we're nottrained with some of the things
that doctors get, even massagetherapists get, where they set
(08:12):
boundaries with people so thatthey don't take on the stuff of
their patients or their clients.
As HR, we pretty much immerseourselves in everybody else's
stuff, whether that's yourboss's stuff, whether that's
your boss's stuff, whether thatis an employee going through a
horrible kind of health crisis,and we've done that since the
beginning of our profession, nowmagnified by the current
(08:36):
climate that we're in and sowhat fascinates me is that,
before any of this happened sobefore this heaviness that we're
referencing Kyle we alreadywere caring so much as HR
practitioners, and that's why wewere really relying on this
short burst of crisis time,because I think we all kind of
intuitively knew we're not goingto be able to survive this in
(08:59):
the long haul with the currentworkload that we already had.
And so, just trying to put intocontext exactly what the
situation is when you'reexperiencing and feeling that
way, it's completely justifiedBecause even though I, you know,
I like the word energy, becausewe know energy is real.
It charges your phone and givesus fuel.
You know we talk about that.
(09:20):
From a scientific standpoint, itmakes sense that you would have
energy in your body.
That's why you exercise and youeat.
You're fueling yourself up,you're generating energy, and
where is the lesson?
For us to care for it.
And that's where I started torealize there was a massive gap.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
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Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think it's that's.
It's a really powerful storyand I appreciate you sharing it
again because you know, one ofthe things I had, um, you know,
a little bit of an aha momenthere a few months ago and I've
I'm so lucky, I mean, this isjust the best job ever.
I get to talk to all sorts ofsuper smart people who are
experts in their field and havestudied a topic and you know,
have put their truth on paperand you know, and or or have
(10:54):
done amazing things in theircareer, and but but one of the
things that I've continued tohear is that you know, um would
consider woo-woo like amindfulness practice for those
who are extremely accomplished.
Seems to be kind of a commonthread that there's some
(11:14):
methodology to manage the bigideas and the big stressors and
the healthy boundaries, and whendo I say yes and when do I say
yes and when do I say no, andthat seemed to be a common
thread.
And I think that the othercomment that I would make on
that is you know, to be honest,when you mentioned that when we
(11:38):
spoke the first time, I'm like,okay, this is woo-woo, right.
Like, oh, what is you know,qigong?
I don't know what this is.
Woo-woo, right.
Like, oh, this, what is youknow, qigong?
I don't know what this is.
It sounds like something thatyou know that's very like
mysticism and doesn't make anysense.
But you know, what I had to doas we were having the
conversation, and I continue tohave to do, is I also have to
(12:00):
realize that that is an internalbias that I have against that
type of practice and that biascomes from the context of where
I was raised.
You know, I'm raised in theMidwest and rural Iowa, right,
like, there weren't.
Qigong was not something thatwas taught at Sunday school,
right, you know, like.
But that's a bias that I haveto kind of check.
(12:21):
And you know if we are, youknow, working towards a more
inclusive and welcoming and, andyou know, collaborative society
, then you know I do need toquestion some of those internal
biases I had and and I thinkthat's that's something that you
know I would encourageeverybody that's listening to
this to be thinking about that,as opposed to maybe hearing
something you don't understandor hearing something about
(12:42):
Eastern medicine and thinkingthis sounds hokey.
Actually take a step back andrealize you know what this has
been practiced for thousands ofyears.
Maybe there's something to this.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah Well, and I think you know and I said this
before we hit the record buttonyou know me going through these
programs.
I'm literally a fish out ofwater, like I don't match the
mold of who's going throughthese certification programs,
who are nurses and massagetherapists and acupuncturists.
I am the only HR person who'sbeen in those classes to date.
I'm the only one with abusiness background to date and
(13:18):
I also was very skeptic.
I'm the one in class when theytalk about drinking something
weird or doing some kind ofweird cleanse.
I'm like you guys actually dothat to yourself, like, um, and
I remember there was one wherethey were talking about coffee
enemas which, if you Google it,god bless you but, um, they were
talking about the concoctionfor this enema but nobody's
(13:40):
talking about the actual processof an enema.
And I just thought that was sobackwards because I'm like it's
almost like there's anassumption that everybody in
this room is okay with givingthemselves an enema and I'm like
that's not okay, that's notreal.
And they saw my face andthought, oh yeah, we got to
bring it down a couple levels.
So you know, to your point,kyle, I was right there where
everybody has been, and I'vebasically been proven wrong time
(14:03):
and time again.
Not on the enema thing, that'stoo far for me, I'll just put
that out there.
That's too far for me.
But you know, with these basickind of exercises whether
they're meditation or doingstances or these postures or
feeling energy, you know I wentwith it and then my life
literally transformed and Icouldn't argue with it anymore.
(14:25):
And then I've been working withpeople now for the last five
years doing little bits andpieces of this and I'm watching
them turn into practitionersthat I've never seen before.
Being able to navigate thingsin organizations that I know
would cause me to have a mentalbreakdown 10 years ago, I know
would cause me to have a mentalbreakdown 10 years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, so, uh.
First of all, you know, if Ihad a like a bell or a siren to
ring, that would be.
You know, that's the first timesomebody has mentioned coffee
enema on the podcast.
So congratulations, Sam, youjust did it.
I'm going to send you a t-shirt.
It's all good, it's, it'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So that will be the clip that goes viral.
Kyle, that will.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
You know what, you never know what goes viral, but
that one you know, I'm not there.
I'm not there.
I am confronting my biases, Iam not doing that.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I'm not there either, so I like to put that on the
spectrum of where I am on thewoo.
So before everyone goesinstantly one way.
I'm not at the coffee enemaside, but I sat in class and
learned about it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That is not what the Heart of it podcast is about,
just so everybody knows.
You know the book doesn't gointo that, but I think the heart
of what you were just saying nopun intended was that it's
different for everybody, right?
So it's like you don't have tojump in and dive into the deep
(15:52):
end, right?
Some of these tactics reallyhelp, so I'll give you an
example.
So when we spoke, you gave us avisualization exercise and I
don't know if you remember, Idon't know, if you remember it
specifically or not, but it wasabout perceiving yourself when
(16:13):
you're entering into kind of anegative situation and kind of
building a protective barrieraround yourself and then having
that stuff kind of bounce off ofthat barrier right.
Like getting centered and thennot letting, not absorbing, you
know that type of energy.
And you know, I took that kindof that visualization and I'm,
(16:34):
you know, I I've, I've tried ita couple of times and it worked.
And it was.
And what I found is it didn'tjust work from the standpoint of
me just not feeling yucky aftera negative conversation.
It allowed me to be moreobjective in my response and, as
(17:00):
that happened, that was kind ofthat light bulb for me, like,
oh, this is going to help me bebetter, right and and oh, by the
way, this also helps me when Icome home, because I'm a better
dad and a better husband,because I'm not keeping all this
stuff inside, and I feel likeI'm being more objective and
authentic as people are bringingchallenges to me.
(17:22):
Is, people are bringingchallenges to me and I think it.
You know whether you you meantfor this to be the result or not
, but I think it was thatboundaries that you talked about
, right, it was like it was likeintentionally setting a
boundary, almost an energeticboundary, for these types of
situations.
So so I think my question therein that story is so why does
(17:42):
that work?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah.
So I mean building off, kind ofwhat we're talking about, of
current state, without doingsomething like that.
How we function as HRpractitioners is think of
yourself as a gigantic mobilecharging station.
So as you're sitting in youroffice or you're moving around
the workspace, um, people justrun up to you and they're just
plugging in and then they'redownloading whatever they need
(18:07):
and you're just like, okay, yeah, I'll take care of that.
That's what we talk about.
You know putting out fires andyou're just navigating that on a
regular basis.
What is happening in thatexchange is they're able to take
from you as well as give you,without you having any say how
much you're actually taking on,well as give you without you
having any say how much you'reactually taking on.
(18:28):
When you bubble up or we sayarmor up, and you create this
barrier, which is, yeah, it's a,it's a woo, woo boundary, it's
giving an actual context anddefinition to a boundary you get
to say I don't need you to pluginto me.
I can hear what you're sayingand I can answer that question
objectively, and then I don'thave to exert as much energy,
because we know there are alwaysproblems, that we don't need to
know everything about it or Idon't have to be in there with
(18:52):
you emotionally.
Then you can have someone.
Let's say that you have anemployee who loses a loved one
to COVID.
They come in.
You know they've been off, youknow they seem emotionally off
at work.
You bring them in because youwant to console them.
You have the right to say hereI'm giving you an outlet, you're
going to be able to plug inbecause I'm going to be in this
space with you.
But then you're consciouslycontrolling how much they're
(19:15):
sucking from you, rather thanyou're saying I'm going to try
to take all of your grief andcarry it for you so that you can
be okay and go back to work,which I think we think we can do
that.
But you can't take somebody'sanger and grief wholeheartedly.
All you do is add it toyourself.
And then you go home and you'relike oh, I'm so sad because the
world's just this awful place,or I'm so angry because.
(19:35):
And then you're taking it outon your, your wife, your kids.
I mean, I know that I've doneit and so really why it works is
because you're trainingyourself to say I'm an energetic
being.
I only got so much energy everysingle day and now I'm going to
control how much I'm going togive and take and how much I'm
going to preserve for the peoplewho I love the most at home,
(19:58):
because I hope that's usuallythe case.
If you don't love those peoplethe most at home that you're
going home to, then maybereevaluate your priorities.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That's another podcast probably.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yes, probably.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
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Rebel on that way, but it youknow in that context, then you
(21:27):
know it almost.
To me, I would think, the nextlogical leap is well, you only
have so much charge to give,right?
So is so you know if you'redepleting your energy, then how
do you, I guess, how do you?
How do you kind of balance that?
You know that give and take asthe day and weeks and months
roll on?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
So you said one of the key words in there.
It is all about balance.
So when we're talking about youknow, the theme through all of
this is that you know the way wefunction professionally is
severely out of balance andthat's not going to be fixed
overnight.
Severely out of balance andthat's not going to be fixed
overnight.
Like I can make the argumentthat right now is the prime time
for you to look at every jobstructure that you have within
your organization and reallyquestion do they physically have
(22:10):
to be in this space?
Do they have to physically workthat amount of hours?
Does their schedule have tolook like that?
You know?
Reevaluate PTO benefits, allthat kind of stuff to really
think about how can I bring morebalance?
And when we think about balance, it is the old school.
I don't know if you rememberthis, kyle, but this is like
what I grew up with the old yinand yang, like friendship
(22:32):
bracelets, when I was back ingrade school the white side and
the black side, and sometimesthey were mood rings and you
know that.
So these balance symbols havebeen around for a long time.
But um, that's what we'retalking about is the yin and the
yang, and the yang is thismasculine, active energy,
whereas the yin is a feminine,dark, reflective energy.
(22:54):
It is restorative.
When we have too much of one orthe other, we can't function
well.
So think about when we were ina lockdown, those who could not
go to work and have peopleinteraction.
When they started to get stircrazy too much yin energy, they
were begging for yang energy.
Now, if we think about ourcurrent professional environment
(23:15):
heavily yang like that's how wefunction and work here in
corporate America.
We push it as fast and as hardas possible.
There's not a lot of room foryin.
So my first thing to you is tolook for ways to balance.
This could be as simple aslunch is lunch it is nourishing
myself and to make it a yinactivity, I'm going to number
(23:40):
one, eat something that's notgoing to cause my digestive
system to have to work reallyhard to process it.
And, number two, actually shutoff all my electronics.
Go someplace.
If it's ideal, it's weatherpermitting outside and away from
the work environment and reallytake that 20, 30 minutes.
I you know, when I was in myclasses, he condoned a two hour
(24:02):
lunch, which I thought wasridiculous but ended up being
one of the best practices thatwe got introduced to, and that
literally was an hour for eatingand then an hour for digesting
and napping.
So I thought what in the worldis he talking about?
But literally we had nap timein my Qigong classes and so
thinking about where can Iincorporate more of this yin,
(24:23):
this reflective practice whetherthat's going to a meeting and
then pulling out your pad ofpaper and reflecting and
brainstorming on all the ideasthat you had or insights that
you caught on, reflectivepractice is a form of yin.
But when you're sitting theredoing like payroll tasks, safety
compliance, you know all thoseare young, active activities,
(24:45):
and so one of the things I would, you know, challenge you to do
is think about what's young,what's in in my place and what
are the percentages and how canI try to bring them back so that
they're 5050?
You're not going to get therebecause that's going to take a
while, but how can I startincreasing that so that I have
more balance?
And if I can't do it during mywork day, that's when you
(25:06):
reevaluate what happens.
When you do go home, what doesthat practice look like?
Because if you work all day andyou're heavy, young for nine,
10 hours and then you're goingto the gym and killing yourself
for 90 minutes so I'm nottalking about getting on a
treadmill and zenning out, I'mtalking about you're in there
and you're like I hate this andthis is awful, and I'm just more
and more and more exhausted.
(25:26):
You're just more young on topof young, so you're just
depleting more energy.
It's not causing anyrebalancing to occur.
So the first step is balancing.
The second thing I will tell youand Qigong is one of the few
modalities that teaches this isthat there is a way to fill up
more energy and add to yourreserves, which is why Qigong is
(25:49):
getting some more attentionnowadays, because you can
actually like recharge somebackup batteries that you can
pull from during the days whenthings are really stressful, or,
ideally, in a climate of whatwe're trying to navigate right
now stressful, or ideally, in aclimate of what we're trying to
navigate right now.
And so that's when they talkabout cultivation practices,
which is a lot of the work thatI do and that's working with
people in the businessenvironment, figuring out what
(26:11):
that practice looks like.
Not like you know, you'restopping in the middle of the
day and doing some kind of weirdkarate chop movement, but there
is, like modern day cultivationpractices that actually will
give you extra energy that youcan add, and then that kind of
helps this whole kind ofsituation.
So it's a very, very bigenergetic equation per se, I
(26:34):
would say.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Fascinating.
You know what's reallyinteresting.
Yes, I had a Yin Yang necklace.
It was super sweet.
I wore it when I was like ajunior in high school and, I kid
you not, my parents likedropped off a box of junk that
was in the attic the other dayand my daughter found the
(26:56):
necklace and now she's wearingthe thing around, so it is like
continuing.
So, yeah, I'm with you, I think.
Yeah, I know that.
But what's really interesting?
So I'm, I'm going back and I'mrereading all these books that I
read in in in college.
Yes, I am a nerd.
One of those books was built tolast and one of the
(27:20):
visualizations that they use inthat book is the yin and yang
symbol, and it's the same thing.
And what they, what they foundin those organizations, was that
those organizations that stuckaround, they had they, they held
their kind of their corepurpose together and they
pursued progress, but they didall of those things in balance,
(27:44):
and so I think it's that's areally.
It's.
For me, it's kind of a reallyinteresting that you know it's.
This isn't just about theindividual, this is about the
organization and, to your pointon, like you know, your org
design and your job structures.
Yeah, if, if, if.
If you don't have that balance,I mean I guarantee you,
everybody listening to this canthink about the person that just
(28:05):
burned themselves out becausethey didn't have balance.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Or the person that got let go because they didn't
have balance, either becausethey were not as productive as
they should have been or weren'tas focused on the goal.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I mean I just think you kind of got to find the
sweet spot, right, yeah, youknow, I mean I just think it's
got to be, you kind of got tofind the sweet spot right.
Yeah, well, and I would fillyour chief operational officer
gets elevated to a chiefexecutive officer, which was
really meant to be a visionaryrole.
And so when you're seeing that,almost like heavy young
(28:55):
starting to populate those roles, just because the way we
function in those professionalpositions, without that counter
kind of development for the yin,what's happening to those
organizations?
And they're losing sight oftheir mission and their vision
and their values.
Some of them are becomingstagnant, some of them are
becoming unethical, and so it'sinteresting to look at this just
from a greater perspective, andthat's that's why I love
(29:17):
Chinese medicine.
I mean, it talks aboutconnecting us to the greater
rhythms that surround us, whichis nature and the planet and the
sun and the moon.
You know we have all thesecycles and if you don't think
those impact us the way theyimpact the weather and the other
natural elements, like you areliving under a rock, like we are
(29:38):
a natural element as well, andwe're we're not immune, we're
not above nature.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, and to and to take it out of the whole, like
the woo, woo.
You know kind of that, thespace that maybe some people are
like, okay, this is a littlefar out there, kyle, but you
know, at the end of the day weare animals and you know those,
those natural elements impactall animals on this planet,
period.
You know and know.
And it's what's the other thing, kind of.
The other insight, as we'retalking here is I'm thinking
(30:05):
about you know, we're alltalking about this great
resignation and you knoweverybody.
You know what is up with allthese people who are
reevaluating their lives andit's almost like you know what.
Maybe they're just trying tofind a little bit more balance
and maybe your organizationneeds to meet them where they're
at if you expect to actuallyhire these people and keep them
employed and, um, you know it's,it's just it's, it's really
(30:28):
interesting, it's really um.
You know a fascinatingprinciple that I think you know,
I think about in the context ofhr.
It's you know, how do we, how dowe foster that, you know, in?
Are there tactics or ways thatwe can take, maybe, this idea of
balance and help our employeeskind of live up to that, or seek
(30:55):
out ways to help them do that?
Speaker 3 (30:59):
We'll be back after a quick break.
We'll be back after a quickbreak.
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Speaker 1 (31:49):
AI for a 14 day free trial.
Well, and I think you know whenwe're talking about this and I
love that you're bringing meback into balance when things
are a little too woo woo,because at the end of the day,
if you take anything from thisconversation and just flat out
like, hit your CEO with it, he'sgoing to be like or she, what
are you talking about?
Like, what were you listeningto?
And I think for me and the waythat I've gotten traction,
because people ask, like, how doyou have a docket full of
(32:09):
clients and this is all the workthat you do?
Like, how do you magically haveall these people that are into
the loo?
And it is about embracing thesmall opportunities that are
presented right now.
You have so many.
So, whether that's a vacancywith a job description that's
posted that's not getting filledbecause of the great
resignation of people notwanting to work, you know, ask
(32:31):
to take risk on that one jobdescription.
What can we do to make this amore balanced position for this
individual and more appealing?
That's more appealing for otherreasons than I just am paying
the most money, because ifyou're going to play that game,
we're all going to be bankruptvery quickly if we're all trying
to outdo the other person onthe pay scale.
(32:51):
Same thing with like benefits,like we've.
We're hearing it from apolitical standpoint our
benefits don't match what peopleget in other countries, so
they're not taking care of themfrom a wellness perspective.
You know, for the last threeyears I've done HR conferences
that are created by HR students.
The top topics are theirpersonal wellness in the
(33:14):
workplace and everyone's like,well, that's fooey.
Like all these colleagues wouldsay that's fooey.
Why would we focus on that?
I'm like this is your futureworkforce telling you that
wellness is a top priority?
So we've seen and this isbefore pandemic, so we're seeing
the rumblings of this and ifyou try to tackle it all, you're
going to just lose it.
(33:34):
But if you tackle somethingsmall so a leader who's having
balance issues, challengeyourself to collaborate with
them how can they find more yin,even if it starts with?
Because what happens is oncethey start to feel better and
act better.
Someone else says what happenedto John.
(33:55):
Like John's like a completelydifferent person.
He like smiles now when hecomes into the office and he's
like well, all I do is I takethis 90 minute lunch and I go
and sit at the park and I eat asalad or something like that and
, and you know, like that's allthat you do.
So that's something small.
What if we do something more?
I mean, I don't think we haveto institute hour long
(34:17):
meditations at the beginning ofevery day to get everyone there,
although I will make theargument that if you gave me 10
minutes with Qigong exerciseswith your staff every day, I bet
they would be more productiveand more calm.
But that's when we're on theother side of the woo-woo scale
and when more people are doingcoffee enemas.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Brought it full circle, Sam.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That was masterful, that you worked at it again.
So, okay, now we just got towork it in a third time and then
, you know, I do think you knowit is really, it's really
interesting, it's, it's, youknow, it's like starting a
ripple, right and it's, and it'sabout being more mindful, and I
, and I feel like the thingsthat you just recommended, like,
(35:03):
does anybody think it's a badidea to rework a job description
that ensures that the job is arealistic job preview and make
sure that that job isappropriate for the person
you're hiring?
And if it's like askingsomebody to do too much, then
maybe we need a different jobprofile, right, like and that's
part that's our job, right, thatwe can impact that Like, what
(35:26):
does this work design look like?
What does this organizationaldesign look like?
Why does this leader have 65direct employees?
There's no way in the worldthat they're going to be an
effective leader or have anytime to do anything besides deal
with employees, you know.
So it's like, okay, well, maybewe need to like, we have those
conversations and decisions allday long and if you think, just
(35:48):
think about it in a differentcontext, it'd be pretty, could
be pretty life-changing, in myopinion and I would say, you
know you talk about not doing anhour-long meditation for your
team, but you do need to make aworkspace allow for mindfulness.
(36:12):
In my opinion, you have to.
You know, I know.
So we're going through, we'rebuilding a new building, which
is wonderful and exciting andfrustrating project at the same
time.
But what you know, a lot ofdialogue's been around quiet
space.
You know, like, how are westructuring this building so
that there's enough quiet space?
Like, how are we structuringthis building so that there's
(36:34):
enough quiet space?
And if you know, if my onlyobjective was to cram as many
people into this building aspossible, then we would not have
that quiet space.
But I have employees who needthat time and they need, they
need to be able to leave theircubicle and go find some sort of
respite throughout the day.
So why would I notintentionally build a space for
them?
Right, you know, and you know,and if, if we weren't thinking
(36:59):
in those terms, we're going to,we're going to make the
workspace a little bit lesscomfortable for some folks,
right?
And I would just say, like,from my standpoint, you know, 20
minutes minimum before my daystarts for me to have a
mindfulness practice is a gamechanger.
If I don't do it, I'mcompletely off my game the rest
of the day and I feel like Ijust operate from a point of
firefighting, and so it's likeyou know whether you do it at
(37:22):
your workplace or not.
I would encourage you knoweverybody to have some sort of
practice where you can have that, that space.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well and I you know you're in a perfect situation
when you're designing a newbuilding, but you're absolutely
correct is walk through youroffice space and see.
Doesn't embrace thatopportunity to do that.
I mean, if your conferencerooms are sterile and you can't
wait to get out of there fastenough, are they really going to
sit there and brainstorm andreflect on how they can be
(37:51):
better at their work?
And the other piece of this islike even lunch, like the
building that my team works in.
When we got here, we found thebreak ground.
It was down in an unfinishedbasement and the only reason we
knew was the cabinet was filledwith all of the stuff that you
would have in an employee breakroom.
And I was like these employeeshad to sit in this cold, musty
(38:17):
break room so they never tooktheir lunches, they never took
any, like they would eat attheir desks.
And so could you imagine theopposite If you had this
beautiful, like large windows oroutside garden space?
I mean, we have a hospital,like right down the street.
They have a walking path that'stwo miles because they have the
land for it and they encouragethe community to come use it.
But the employees use that, andso you know there's something
(38:39):
about nature.
I forget who it is, but thereis a company out and then this
was me being educated by some ofmy college students, which is
probably why I'm not hip enoughto know who it was specifically.
But there are companies thatare out West who make time for
their employees to go surfingbecause they've seen the
productivity increase when theyget them outside.
(38:59):
There you go.
Thank you See, I'm not hip.
There you go.
That's another nerd.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
That's a college book .
Yvonne Shannar, the CEO, wrotethe book.
Let my people go surfing, butyeah, that's you know what.
That just reminded me.
I got to reread that book.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, so I mean.
But I mean like those things.
I mean thinking outside the box.
That's bringing more yin intothe workplace.
That's better than those One ofthose biggest loser programs we
used to do or make it on thisscale, don't remind me.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
All right, we're going to go there, we're going
to go here.
So um I wellness programs likein their traditional format
drive me crazy.
The whole like the biggestloser program.
Um was my least favorite thingto do and I it felt like it's
like we're turning this thingthat's supposed to be healthy
(39:49):
and fun and exciting into thiscompetition amongst the same 10
people that always do thesechallenges and the other 300
people are like this is a stupidthing again.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Very accurately recapped that pile.
We all just went right backthere Feeling it, feeling it
right now.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, let's do weigh-ins, let's go make
everybody stand on a scale,let's record that number,
because everybody loves that,and let's get employee
engagement up.
Anybody who's with me, right?
Who in a room thought this isgoing to be great.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
What's even better is let's use the break room
bulletin board to track it andgive everybody like a icon of
some sort so we could all see it.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
And the best part is guess who is like the obligatory
team captain, HR, right?
So like all of us who are likethis is the stupidest thing ever
, but corporate's making me dothis thing.
Guess, I get a weigh-in everyweek.
Here you go.
Sorry, you know it feels great.
I love this.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
But I'll give you a Fitbit.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, here's a Fitbit , yeah, here's a Fitbit.
And, and you know what, the thewinner gets an iPad right, or
an iPod, or it was an iPod.
At that point, oh, good stuff,I don't miss.
We don't do that in my.
Yeah, we don't do that in mycompany, but, uh, you know, I do
, you know, I.
I think I don't know what youropinion there is, but I think
part of the issue with that typeof an approach is it's, you
know, wellness is so personal,you know, and well being is so
(41:17):
personal, and it's a whole lotmore than how heavy are you?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think that's you knowwhat we're talking about here.
I mean, you know, I would loveto be able to hop on and say
here are the top five ways tomake everything go away.
It's not going to work likethat.
It's different for every one ofus.
Even the way that I do Qigongis different than all of my
peers in my programs.
(41:41):
The way that we cultivate ourenergy it's very different.
Some of them do practice an houra day, minds in short bursts
throughout the day.
And even Kyle, you said afterour last conversation talking to
the people you've built apractice that works for you and
makes sense for you, and that'sthe only time that it's
effective.
If you try to pick up something, you might get a piece of a
(42:05):
part that's meant to be yourpractice and just recognize that
.
Don't think that one's supposedto be the answer and if you
can't do it, that you're afailure and it doesn't work for
you.
My biggest pet peeve is whenpeople say I can't do that.
(42:26):
I can't quiet my monkey mind.
I'm just a very active person.
What I hear is you're a veryyoung person and you even need
yin more than ever.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So you just described me 100% in more than ever.
So you just described me 100%.
I mean, I and you know to get alittle bit personal here so I
am a um, you know, a workaholicin many respects.
Um, especially during COVIDquarantine, cause that's just
all I did, is I just worked.
Um, I'm a triathlete and so youknow more hard, hard exercise,
(42:56):
push yourself as hard as you can, push yourself as long as you
can until you, your body, breaksdown.
And I had absolutely no, nopractice that allowed for any
sort of mindfulness or quietnessor anything, until a few months
ago, after listening to allthese smart people say hey, you
know, this is something youshould think about.
And I just downloaded an appfor free and started listening
(43:19):
to guided meditations and Ifound that visualizing for me
it's the kind of the chakravisualization and, for whatever
reason, it works for me.
You know, and I don't know, youknow I I'm not like doing like
crystal healing or anything likethat, but for me that just the
just focusing my mind on thatallows my mind to quiet down,
(43:43):
and then, and then what's prettycool is then it allows my mind
to start to wander into thingsthat are actually kind of the
intent of what I want to focuson and think about, things like
my family and and kindness andand you know, and and respect
for others and the, the trueperson that I want to be Right
(44:03):
and, but it's but like, if I cando it, anybody can do it,
because I'm just like monkeymind is like, that's like the
definition of how my mind works.
I mean that's um, that's justthe way it is.
So I mean I, I would encourageeverybody to think about it.
I mean there's so muchinformation out there.
Um, there's a million differentapps.
Most of this stuff is free.
(44:24):
Um, you can, you can get, youknow, get a teacher, get
somebody to help you.
Uh, and, with that in mind, sam, I want to ask how can our
listeners connect with you andlearn more about your practice
and just and and get a littlebit more information on this
topic?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The best way to get ahold of meis to go to our website, which
is the heart centercom.
It's spelled H R A R like HRart center, so my center is
completely devoted to HRpractitioners and helping them,
because that's how much, howdedicated I am to this work.
And just a couple things toplant seeds.
(45:02):
I know the reason why youbrought me on Kyle, and we have
a program that's like an eightweek disengagement detox program
that's specially made for HRpractitioners to basically an
eight weeks, feel like yourselfagain and remove all the
heaviness.
That's specially made for HRpractitioners to basically, in
eight weeks, feel like yourselfagain and remove all the
heaviness that's happening.
We do that in group coaching,so it's also a great supportive
(45:22):
community.
When you hear about that,you're not alone with all of
this.
And then the other piece is ifyou're somewhat intrigued by
Qigong.
I know it sounds really woo wooand my dad would say that he
thinks this whole thing is agigantic scam.
As I tell you this so that youknow what I mean.
But we do distance healing aswell.
So that means that wherever youare, I can actually connect
(45:45):
with you on zoom and do theenergy protocols to care for
your energy, which is removingthings that doesn't serve.
It, give you more energy andalso make you more balanced.
And I am a skeptic myself, andanytime somebody is willing to
take a chance on me, let's saythat there's the take a chance
on me kind of guarantee.
I'm not going to charge you ifyou feel like you just got duped
(46:07):
.
So but yeah, check it out onthe website.
There's tons of resources there.
And then, obviously, on mypodcast, the Heart of it podcast
, it's me and a bunch of othergreat guests to hop on.
We talk about making woo-woomore normal, but also a lot of
things that we talked abouttoday.
How should we be reevaluatingthe way that we're doing work in
this great opportunity thatwe're being given?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Absolutely, and I wanna make sure I also mentioned
that the book is coming outit's called Workplace Healers in
June of 2022.
So go out there, get apre-order.
Check it out, Sam.
This has just been a wonderfulconversation.
I just want to thank you fordoing the work and helping to
make this, this type of practice, a little bit more mainstream
(46:50):
and and help some people thatreally need this type of support
get connected to it.
So thank you so much for allthe work you're doing.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Thank you so much, Kyle.
And then I expect next yearwe'll do this again and I'll
give the tutorial on coffeeenemas.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Okay, we did it three times.
We mentioned it three times.
Hopefully that doesn't get usbanned from the podcast platform
.
I think we're probably okay,sam.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you so much.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Thanks, Kyle Thanks.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast.
Twitter at Rebel HR guy or seeour website at
rebelhumanresources R podcast.
Twitter at Rebel HR Guy or seeour website at
RebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
(47:44):
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Baby.
I like the word energy, because we know energy
is real.
It charges your phone, it givesus fuel.
You talk about that from ascientific standpoint.
It makes sense that you wouldhave energy in your body.
That's why you exercise and youeat.
You're fueling yourself up,you're generating energy, and
where is the lesson?
For us to care for it?
And that's where I started torealize there was a massive gap.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we
talk to HR innovators about allthings people, leadership.
If you're looking for places tofind about new ways to think
about the world of work, this isthe podcast for you.
Please subscribe to yourfavorite podcast listening
platform today and leave us areview.
Rebel on HR Rebels.
(00:42):
Rebel on HR Rebels.
Welcome back Rebel HR listeners.
Really, really excited towelcome back to the Rebel HR
podcast Sam Smelter.
You may remember, Sam, we hadher way back in episode 35,
Weird but Effective HR.
She is just an awesome, awesomeperson and I invited her back
(01:09):
to talk about all sorts ofthings related to the workplace.
She has a book coming out inJune of 2022 called Workplace
Healers and she has a podcastcalled the Heart of it Podcast.
Welcome back to the show, Sam.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Thank you so much, Kyle.
I'm so excited to be here.
I loved our previousconversation and looking forward
to continuing it today.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Absolutely, and I'm just extremely excited to
reconnect and it's been almost ayear since we last spoke and we
were talking before I hitrecord.
It's like a lot has happenedthis year, but I also feel like
it still kind of feels the sameand so it'll be.
It'd just be great to kind ofcatch up and see where you're at
(01:47):
.
One of the things that reallyprompted this, this discussion,
came from our community members,and you know I've been been
talking to quite a few of youand you know I love discussing
different topics with ourlisteners and getting connected
to the HR community.
But there was a common themethat has kind of continued to
(02:08):
come up and that has been how doI manage all this stress and
how do I help my employeesmanage it?
But then how do I personallywork through all of the kind of
the darkness of HR and this andscared employees and the
challenges of today, and it justit seems like a lot of HR
(02:30):
practitioners out there justfeel a lot of weight and so I
want to talk about that a littlebit.
You know, I think you know wetalked about this in our last
episode a little bit, but I wantto do a little bit of a deep
dive into your approach onhelping the workplace be more
comfortable, not only foremployees, but also for HR
professionals.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, and you know, kyle, I think you started the
conversation just perfectly bysaying that you know, a year ago
, you know a year has passed butwe have kind of been treading
water per se.
And I think even when we hadthat initial conversation, we
were chatting and almostplayfully like looking at
tactics to kind of just navigatewhat we thought was going to be
(03:13):
hopefully fingers crossed ashort burst in our added
workload and so much so.
And I can tell you that even ifI look at my clients in the
last week, I have people that Iwas working with when we were
recording the first time comingback because it's just too heavy
and they can't handle it andeven the tools that we did to
(03:34):
get them to be sustaining arejust not enough anymore.
They're asking for furtherassistance.
And you know, when we talkabout stress management, I mean
like we didn't have that figuredout before all these things
happened, like that was on allof our lists for corporate
wellness, like figure out astress management program that's
effective so that we can haveengaged and productive employees
(03:56):
, and then we'll be part of thatat some point as well.
And now look at the climate, andI love that you said, the dark
side of HR.
The whole world is just kind ofin this dark, heavy place and
as HR professionals we areholding the brunt of it,
especially in the world ofbusiness.
And I feel like I just thinkback to our first conversation
(04:20):
and it was so fun and light.
And now it does.
It feels so heavy because thisis the reality for so many
people and it hurts me whenpeople come into my office
because I'm happy they feel safehere, but the fact that, like
outside of there, they have toput up some massive armor
because they're beingresponsible for so many things
(04:42):
and look to for so many thingsthat they like, we just none of
us planned for this, absolutelyyeah, and I think I think you
use the right term.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
You know it's.
It's that heaviness it's, youknow, and I mean you turn on the
news and you see all sorts ofnegative negativity.
You walk in your office andthere's somebody waiting by your
door with like, hey, I got totell you about this.
This is really messed up.
You know, and I mean that youknow we deal with that so much
in our in our day to day, and Ithink one of the biggest
challenges that, um, you know Ireally struggled with,
(05:15):
especially earlier in my career,was we take all that on Right
and I think most of us, most ofus in HR, get into it because we
want to help.
We come from that servicemindset where we want to help
people.
In general, most of us likepeople.
If you've been in HR longenough, maybe your thoughts have
shifted that negativity.
(05:46):
If you just kind of, if youjust keep it in and you don't
have some sort of way to to dealwith that and and
compartmentalize that, or or youknow, you know, put those types
of interactions intoperspective.
It's just, it just sucks.
It can be really hard.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, yeah.
And you know one of the thingsthat, things that and forgive me
, I won't completely retell thisstory because I think I did
mention it on the first episode.
But you know, my pathwaystarted with the fact that I
wanted to figure out employeeengagement, starting with myself
, because I found myself alwaysroutinely ending up in this
(06:23):
place where I couldn't be ofultimate service, I couldn't
help the people.
That I was all inspired to do.
I realized that that drivedidn't last for an eternity and
I was terrified of that naturalevolution where we see what you
talk about jokingly, but we allknow you've been in there long
enough and all of a sudden youropinion is just a little more
pessimistic and it just slowlygets to a point and then you
(06:45):
retire, kind of thing in the HR.
And when I was on that path itled me to Eastern modalities.
So for the last three, fouryears I've been studying and
doing certificates in somethingcalled medical Qigong, which
sounds really woo woo.
It's just a branch oftraditional Chinese medicine.
(07:07):
But what fascinated me aboutthis and in relation to the work
that we do as HR practitioners,is that it focuses on something
called the energetic body.
It focuses on the fact thatwe're more than just blood and
skin and bones, and we're alsomore than just this soul that's
going to go to whatever yourbelief is on an afterlife, that
(07:28):
there is something that makesyou, kyle, you and me, sam, and
why there's connection and whythere's dynamic and why there
are people that are a culturalfit and not.
It gave a tangible definitionto those things by defining
energy and the dynamics of myenergy interacting with your
energy, and that's why we haveconflict and that's why we have
(07:49):
team building and that's why allthese things that we've been
doing it gave an actual physicalcontext to it that I could
describe.
Now, what I discovered whiledoing this work is that HR
practitioners because we carefor people so much we're
technically in a healingcapacity, but we don't classify
it that way is that we're nottrained with some of the things
that doctors get, even massagetherapists get, where they set
(08:12):
boundaries with people so thatthey don't take on the stuff of
their patients or their clients.
As HR, we pretty much immerseourselves in everybody else's
stuff, whether that's yourboss's stuff, whether that's
your boss's stuff, whether thatis an employee going through a
horrible kind of health crisis,and we've done that since the
beginning of our profession, nowmagnified by the current
(08:36):
climate that we're in and sowhat fascinates me is that,
before any of this happened sobefore this heaviness that we're
referencing Kyle we alreadywere caring so much as HR
practitioners, and that's why wewere really relying on this
short burst of crisis time,because I think we all kind of
intuitively knew we're not goingto be able to survive this in
(08:59):
the long haul with the currentworkload that we already had.
And so, just trying to put intocontext exactly what the
situation is when you'reexperiencing and feeling that
way, it's completely justifiedBecause even though I, you know,
I like the word energy, becausewe know energy is real.
It charges your phone and givesus fuel.
You know we talk about that.
(09:20):
From a scientific standpoint, itmakes sense that you would have
energy in your body.
That's why you exercise and youeat.
You're fueling yourself up,you're generating energy, and
where is the lesson?
For us to care for it.
And that's where I started torealize there was a massive gap.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
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Speaker 2 (10:31):
I think it's that's.
It's a really powerful storyand I appreciate you sharing it
again because you know, one ofthe things I had, um, you know,
a little bit of an aha momenthere a few months ago and I've
I'm so lucky, I mean, this isjust the best job ever.
I get to talk to all sorts ofsuper smart people who are
experts in their field and havestudied a topic and you know,
have put their truth on paperand you know, and or or have
(10:54):
done amazing things in theircareer, and but but one of the
things that I've continued tohear is that you know, um would
consider woo-woo like amindfulness practice for those
who are extremely accomplished.
Seems to be kind of a commonthread that there's some
(11:14):
methodology to manage the bigideas and the big stressors and
the healthy boundaries, and whendo I say yes and when do I say
yes and when do I say no, andthat seemed to be a common
thread.
And I think that the othercomment that I would make on
that is you know, to be honest,when you mentioned that when we
(11:38):
spoke the first time, I'm like,okay, this is woo-woo, right.
Like, oh, what is you know,qigong?
I don't know what this is.
Woo-woo, right.
Like, oh, this, what is youknow, qigong?
I don't know what this is.
It sounds like something thatyou know that's very like
mysticism and doesn't make anysense.
But you know, what I had to doas we were having the
conversation, and I continue tohave to do, is I also have to
(12:00):
realize that that is an internalbias that I have against that
type of practice and that biascomes from the context of where
I was raised.
You know, I'm raised in theMidwest and rural Iowa, right,
like, there weren't.
Qigong was not something thatwas taught at Sunday school,
right, you know, like.
But that's a bias that I haveto kind of check.
(12:21):
And you know if we are, youknow, working towards a more
inclusive and welcoming and, andyou know, collaborative society
, then you know I do need toquestion some of those internal
biases I had and and I thinkthat's that's something that you
know I would encourageeverybody that's listening to
this to be thinking about that,as opposed to maybe hearing
something you don't understandor hearing something about
(12:42):
Eastern medicine and thinkingthis sounds hokey.
Actually take a step back andrealize you know what this has
been practiced for thousands ofyears.
Maybe there's something to this.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Yeah Well, and I think you know and I said this
before we hit the record buttonyou know me going through these
programs.
I'm literally a fish out ofwater, like I don't match the
mold of who's going throughthese certification programs,
who are nurses and massagetherapists and acupuncturists.
I am the only HR person who'sbeen in those classes to date.
I'm the only one with abusiness background to date and
(13:18):
I also was very skeptic.
I'm the one in class when theytalk about drinking something
weird or doing some kind ofweird cleanse.
I'm like you guys actually dothat to yourself, like, um, and
I remember there was one wherethey were talking about coffee
enemas which, if you Google it,god bless you but, um, they were
talking about the concoctionfor this enema but nobody's
(13:40):
talking about the actual processof an enema.
And I just thought that was sobackwards because I'm like it's
almost like there's anassumption that everybody in
this room is okay with givingthemselves an enema and I'm like
that's not okay, that's notreal.
And they saw my face andthought, oh yeah, we got to
bring it down a couple levels.
So you know, to your point,kyle, I was right there where
everybody has been, and I'vebasically been proven wrong time
(14:03):
and time again.
Not on the enema thing, that'stoo far for me, I'll just put
that out there.
That's too far for me.
But you know, with these basickind of exercises whether
they're meditation or doingstances or these postures or
feeling energy, you know I wentwith it and then my life
literally transformed and Icouldn't argue with it anymore.
(14:25):
And then I've been working withpeople now for the last five
years doing little bits andpieces of this and I'm watching
them turn into practitionersthat I've never seen before.
Being able to navigate thingsin organizations that I know
would cause me to have a mentalbreakdown 10 years ago, I know
would cause me to have a mentalbreakdown 10 years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, so, uh.
First of all, you know, if Ihad a like a bell or a siren to
ring, that would be.
You know, that's the first timesomebody has mentioned coffee
enema on the podcast.
So congratulations, Sam, youjust did it.
I'm going to send you a t-shirt.
It's all good, it's, it'sawesome.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
So that will be the clip that goes viral.
Kyle, that will.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
You know what, you never know what goes viral, but
that one you know, I'm not there.
I'm not there.
I am confronting my biases, Iam not doing that.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I'm not there either, so I like to put that on the
spectrum of where I am on thewoo.
So before everyone goesinstantly one way.
I'm not at the coffee enemaside, but I sat in class and
learned about it.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That is not what the Heart of it podcast is about,
just so everybody knows.
You know the book doesn't gointo that, but I think the heart
of what you were just saying nopun intended was that it's
different for everybody, right?
So it's like you don't have tojump in and dive into the deep
(15:52):
end, right?
Some of these tactics reallyhelp, so I'll give you an
example.
So when we spoke, you gave us avisualization exercise and I
don't know if you remember, Idon't know, if you remember it
specifically or not, but it wasabout perceiving yourself when
(16:13):
you're entering into kind of anegative situation and kind of
building a protective barrieraround yourself and then having
that stuff kind of bounce off ofthat barrier right.
Like getting centered and thennot letting, not absorbing, you
know that type of energy.
And you know, I took that kindof that visualization and I'm,
(16:34):
you know, I I've, I've tried ita couple of times and it worked.
And it was.
And what I found is it didn'tjust work from the standpoint of
me just not feeling yucky aftera negative conversation.
It allowed me to be moreobjective in my response and, as
(17:00):
that happened, that was kind ofthat light bulb for me, like,
oh, this is going to help me bebetter, right and and oh, by the
way, this also helps me when Icome home, because I'm a better
dad and a better husband,because I'm not keeping all this
stuff inside, and I feel likeI'm being more objective and
authentic as people are bringingchallenges to me.
(17:22):
Is, people are bringingchallenges to me and I think it.
You know whether you you meantfor this to be the result or not
, but I think it was thatboundaries that you talked about
, right, it was like it was likeintentionally setting a
boundary, almost an energeticboundary, for these types of
situations.
So so I think my question therein that story is so why does
(17:42):
that work?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah.
So I mean building off, kind ofwhat we're talking about, of
current state, without doingsomething like that.
How we function as HRpractitioners is think of
yourself as a gigantic mobilecharging station.
So as you're sitting in youroffice or you're moving around
the workspace, um, people justrun up to you and they're just
plugging in and then they'redownloading whatever they need
(18:07):
and you're just like, okay, yeah, I'll take care of that.
That's what we talk about.
You know putting out fires andyou're just navigating that on a
regular basis.
What is happening in thatexchange is they're able to take
from you as well as give you,without you having any say how
much you're actually taking on,well as give you without you
having any say how much you'reactually taking on.
(18:28):
When you bubble up or we sayarmor up, and you create this
barrier, which is, yeah, it's a,it's a woo, woo boundary, it's
giving an actual context anddefinition to a boundary you get
to say I don't need you to pluginto me.
I can hear what you're sayingand I can answer that question
objectively, and then I don'thave to exert as much energy,
because we know there are alwaysproblems, that we don't need to
know everything about it or Idon't have to be in there with
(18:52):
you emotionally.
Then you can have someone.
Let's say that you have anemployee who loses a loved one
to COVID.
They come in.
You know they've been off, youknow they seem emotionally off
at work.
You bring them in because youwant to console them.
You have the right to say hereI'm giving you an outlet, you're
going to be able to plug inbecause I'm going to be in this
space with you.
But then you're consciouslycontrolling how much they're
(19:15):
sucking from you, rather thanyou're saying I'm going to try
to take all of your grief andcarry it for you so that you can
be okay and go back to work,which I think we think we can do
that.
But you can't take somebody'sanger and grief wholeheartedly.
All you do is add it toyourself.
And then you go home and you'relike oh, I'm so sad because the
world's just this awful place,or I'm so angry because.
(19:35):
And then you're taking it outon your, your wife, your kids.
I mean, I know that I've doneit and so really why it works is
because you're trainingyourself to say I'm an energetic
being.
I only got so much energy everysingle day and now I'm going to
control how much I'm going togive and take and how much I'm
going to preserve for the peoplewho I love the most at home,
(19:58):
because I hope that's usuallythe case.
If you don't love those peoplethe most at home that you're
going home to, then maybereevaluate your priorities.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
That's another podcast probably.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Yes, probably.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
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Rebel on that way, but it youknow in that context, then you
(21:27):
know it almost.
To me, I would think, the nextlogical leap is well, you only
have so much charge to give,right?
So is so you know if you'redepleting your energy, then how
do you, I guess, how do you?
How do you kind of balance that?
You know that give and take asthe day and weeks and months
roll on?
Speaker 1 (21:47):
So you said one of the key words in there.
It is all about balance.
So when we're talking about youknow, the theme through all of
this is that you know the way wefunction professionally is
severely out of balance andthat's not going to be fixed
overnight.
Severely out of balance andthat's not going to be fixed
overnight.
Like I can make the argumentthat right now is the prime time
for you to look at every jobstructure that you have within
your organization and reallyquestion do they physically have
(22:10):
to be in this space?
Do they have to physically workthat amount of hours?
Does their schedule have tolook like that?
You know?
Reevaluate PTO benefits, allthat kind of stuff to really
think about how can I bring morebalance?
And when we think about balance, it is the old school.
I don't know if you rememberthis, kyle, but this is like
what I grew up with the old yinand yang, like friendship
(22:32):
bracelets, when I was back ingrade school the white side and
the black side, and sometimesthey were mood rings and you
know that.
So these balance symbols havebeen around for a long time.
But um, that's what we'retalking about is the yin and the
yang, and the yang is thismasculine, active energy,
whereas the yin is a feminine,dark, reflective energy.
(22:54):
It is restorative.
When we have too much of one orthe other, we can't function
well.
So think about when we were ina lockdown, those who could not
go to work and have peopleinteraction.
When they started to get stircrazy too much yin energy, they
were begging for yang energy.
Now, if we think about ourcurrent professional environment
(23:15):
heavily yang like that's how wefunction and work here in
corporate America.
We push it as fast and as hardas possible.
There's not a lot of room foryin.
So my first thing to you is tolook for ways to balance.
This could be as simple aslunch is lunch it is nourishing
myself and to make it a yinactivity, I'm going to number
(23:40):
one, eat something that's notgoing to cause my digestive
system to have to work reallyhard to process it.
And, number two, actually shutoff all my electronics.
Go someplace.
If it's ideal, it's weatherpermitting outside and away from
the work environment and reallytake that 20, 30 minutes.
I you know, when I was in myclasses, he condoned a two hour
(24:02):
lunch, which I thought wasridiculous but ended up being
one of the best practices thatwe got introduced to, and that
literally was an hour for eatingand then an hour for digesting
and napping.
So I thought what in the worldis he talking about?
But literally we had nap timein my Qigong classes and so
thinking about where can Iincorporate more of this yin,
(24:23):
this reflective practice whetherthat's going to a meeting and
then pulling out your pad ofpaper and reflecting and
brainstorming on all the ideasthat you had or insights that
you caught on, reflectivepractice is a form of yin.
But when you're sitting theredoing like payroll tasks, safety
compliance, you know all thoseare young, active activities,
(24:45):
and so one of the things I would, you know, challenge you to do
is think about what's young,what's in in my place and what
are the percentages and how canI try to bring them back so that
they're 5050?
You're not going to get therebecause that's going to take a
while, but how can I startincreasing that so that I have
more balance?
And if I can't do it during mywork day, that's when you
(25:06):
reevaluate what happens.
When you do go home, what doesthat practice look like?
Because if you work all day andyou're heavy, young for nine,
10 hours and then you're goingto the gym and killing yourself
for 90 minutes so I'm nottalking about getting on a
treadmill and zenning out, I'mtalking about you're in there
and you're like I hate this andthis is awful, and I'm just more
and more and more exhausted.
(25:26):
You're just more young on topof young, so you're just
depleting more energy.
It's not causing anyrebalancing to occur.
So the first step is balancing.
The second thing I will tell youand Qigong is one of the few
modalities that teaches this isthat there is a way to fill up
more energy and add to yourreserves, which is why Qigong is
(25:49):
getting some more attentionnowadays, because you can
actually like recharge somebackup batteries that you can
pull from during the days whenthings are really stressful, or,
ideally, in a climate of whatwe're trying to navigate right
now stressful, or ideally, in aclimate of what we're trying to
navigate right now.
And so that's when they talkabout cultivation practices,
which is a lot of the work thatI do and that's working with
people in the businessenvironment, figuring out what
(26:11):
that practice looks like.
Not like you know, you'restopping in the middle of the
day and doing some kind of weirdkarate chop movement, but there
is, like modern day cultivationpractices that actually will
give you extra energy that youcan add, and then that kind of
helps this whole kind ofsituation.
So it's a very, very bigenergetic equation per se, I
(26:34):
would say.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Fascinating.
You know what's reallyinteresting.
Yes, I had a Yin Yang necklace.
It was super sweet.
I wore it when I was like ajunior in high school and, I kid
you not, my parents likedropped off a box of junk that
was in the attic the other dayand my daughter found the
(26:56):
necklace and now she's wearingthe thing around, so it is like
continuing.
So, yeah, I'm with you, I think.
Yeah, I know that.
But what's really interesting?
So I'm, I'm going back and I'mrereading all these books that I
read in in in college.
Yes, I am a nerd.
One of those books was built tolast and one of the
(27:20):
visualizations that they use inthat book is the yin and yang
symbol, and it's the same thing.
And what they, what they foundin those organizations, was that
those organizations that stuckaround, they had they, they held
their kind of their corepurpose together and they
pursued progress, but they didall of those things in balance,
(27:44):
and so I think it's that's areally.
It's.
For me, it's kind of a reallyinteresting that you know it's.
This isn't just about theindividual, this is about the
organization and, to your pointon, like you know, your org
design and your job structures.
Yeah, if, if, if.
If you don't have that balance,I mean I guarantee you,
everybody listening to this canthink about the person that just
(28:05):
burned themselves out becausethey didn't have balance.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Or the person that got let go because they didn't
have balance, either becausethey were not as productive as
they should have been or weren'tas focused on the goal.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
I mean I just think you kind of got to find the
sweet spot, right, yeah, youknow, I mean I just think it's
got to be, you kind of got tofind the sweet spot right.
Yeah, well, and I would fillyour chief operational officer
gets elevated to a chiefexecutive officer, which was
really meant to be a visionaryrole.
And so when you're seeing that,almost like heavy young
(28:55):
starting to populate those roles, just because the way we
function in those professionalpositions, without that counter
kind of development for the yin,what's happening to those
organizations?
And they're losing sight oftheir mission and their vision
and their values.
Some of them are becomingstagnant, some of them are
becoming unethical, and so it'sinteresting to look at this just
from a greater perspective, andthat's that's why I love
(29:17):
Chinese medicine.
I mean, it talks aboutconnecting us to the greater
rhythms that surround us, whichis nature and the planet and the
sun and the moon.
You know we have all thesecycles and if you don't think
those impact us the way theyimpact the weather and the other
natural elements, like you areliving under a rock, like we are
(29:38):
a natural element as well, andwe're we're not immune, we're
not above nature.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, and to and to take it out of the whole, like
the woo, woo.
You know kind of that, thespace that maybe some people are
like, okay, this is a littlefar out there, kyle, but you
know, at the end of the day weare animals and you know those,
those natural elements impactall animals on this planet,
period.
You know and know.
And it's what's the other thing, kind of.
The other insight, as we'retalking here is I'm thinking
(30:05):
about you know, we're alltalking about this great
resignation and you knoweverybody.
You know what is up with allthese people who are
reevaluating their lives andit's almost like you know what.
Maybe they're just trying tofind a little bit more balance
and maybe your organizationneeds to meet them where they're
at if you expect to actuallyhire these people and keep them
employed and, um, you know it's,it's just it's, it's really
(30:28):
interesting, it's really um.
You know a fascinatingprinciple that I think you know,
I think about in the context ofhr.
It's you know, how do we, how dowe foster that, you know, in?
Are there tactics or ways thatwe can take, maybe, this idea of
balance and help our employeeskind of live up to that, or seek
(30:55):
out ways to help them do that?
Speaker 3 (30:59):
We'll be back after a quick break.
We'll be back after a quickbreak.
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Speaker 1 (31:49):
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Well, and I think you know whenwe're talking about this and I
love that you're bringing meback into balance when things
are a little too woo woo,because at the end of the day,
if you take anything from thisconversation and just flat out
like, hit your CEO with it, he'sgoing to be like or she, what
are you talking about?
Like, what were you listeningto?
And I think for me and the waythat I've gotten traction,
because people ask, like, how doyou have a docket full of
(32:09):
clients and this is all the workthat you do?
Like, how do you magically haveall these people that are into
the loo?
And it is about embracing thesmall opportunities that are
presented right now.
You have so many.
So, whether that's a vacancywith a job description that's
posted that's not getting filledbecause of the great
resignation of people notwanting to work, you know, ask
(32:31):
to take risk on that one jobdescription.
What can we do to make this amore balanced position for this
individual and more appealing?
That's more appealing for otherreasons than I just am paying
the most money, because ifyou're going to play that game,
we're all going to be bankruptvery quickly if we're all trying
to outdo the other person onthe pay scale.
(32:51):
Same thing with like benefits,like we've.
We're hearing it from apolitical standpoint our
benefits don't match what peopleget in other countries, so
they're not taking care of themfrom a wellness perspective.
You know, for the last threeyears I've done HR conferences
that are created by HR students.
The top topics are theirpersonal wellness in the
(33:14):
workplace and everyone's like,well, that's fooey.
Like all these colleagues wouldsay that's fooey.
Why would we focus on that?
I'm like this is your futureworkforce telling you that
wellness is a top priority?
So we've seen and this isbefore pandemic, so we're seeing
the rumblings of this and ifyou try to tackle it all, you're
going to just lose it.
(33:34):
But if you tackle somethingsmall so a leader who's having
balance issues, challengeyourself to collaborate with
them how can they find more yin,even if it starts with?
Because what happens is oncethey start to feel better and
act better.
Someone else says what happenedto John.
(33:55):
Like John's like a completelydifferent person.
He like smiles now when hecomes into the office and he's
like well, all I do is I takethis 90 minute lunch and I go
and sit at the park and I eat asalad or something like that and
, and you know, like that's allthat you do.
So that's something small.
What if we do something more?
I mean, I don't think we haveto institute hour long
(34:17):
meditations at the beginning ofevery day to get everyone there,
although I will make theargument that if you gave me 10
minutes with Qigong exerciseswith your staff every day, I bet
they would be more productiveand more calm.
But that's when we're on theother side of the woo-woo scale
and when more people are doingcoffee enemas.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Brought it full circle, Sam.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
That was masterful, that you worked at it again.
So, okay, now we just got towork it in a third time and then
, you know, I do think you knowit is really, it's really
interesting, it's, it's, youknow, it's like starting a
ripple, right and it's, and it'sabout being more mindful, and I
, and I feel like the thingsthat you just recommended, like,
(35:03):
does anybody think it's a badidea to rework a job description
that ensures that the job is arealistic job preview and make
sure that that job isappropriate for the person
you're hiring?
And if it's like askingsomebody to do too much, then
maybe we need a different jobprofile, right, like and that's
part that's our job, right, thatwe can impact that Like, what
(35:26):
does this work design look like?
What does this organizationaldesign look like?
Why does this leader have 65direct employees?
There's no way in the worldthat they're going to be an
effective leader or have anytime to do anything besides deal
with employees, you know.
So it's like, okay, well, maybewe need to like, we have those
conversations and decisions allday long and if you think, just
(35:48):
think about it in a differentcontext, it'd be pretty, could
be pretty life-changing, in myopinion and I would say, you
know you talk about not doing anhour-long meditation for your
team, but you do need to make aworkspace allow for mindfulness.
(36:12):
In my opinion, you have to.
You know, I know.
So we're going through, we'rebuilding a new building, which
is wonderful and exciting andfrustrating project at the same
time.
But what you know, a lot ofdialogue's been around quiet
space.
You know, like, how are westructuring this building so
that there's enough quiet space?
Like, how are we structuringthis building so that there's
(36:34):
enough quiet space?
And if you know, if my onlyobjective was to cram as many
people into this building aspossible, then we would not have
that quiet space.
But I have employees who needthat time and they need, they
need to be able to leave theircubicle and go find some sort of
respite throughout the day.
So why would I notintentionally build a space for
them?
Right, you know, and you know,and if, if we weren't thinking
(36:59):
in those terms, we're going to,we're going to make the
workspace a little bit lesscomfortable for some folks,
right?
And I would just say, like,from my standpoint, you know, 20
minutes minimum before my daystarts for me to have a
mindfulness practice is a gamechanger.
If I don't do it, I'mcompletely off my game the rest
of the day and I feel like Ijust operate from a point of
firefighting, and so it's likeyou know whether you do it at
(37:22):
your workplace or not.
I would encourage you knoweverybody to have some sort of
practice where you can have that, that space.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well and I you know you're in a perfect situation
when you're designing a newbuilding, but you're absolutely
correct is walk through youroffice space and see.
Doesn't embrace thatopportunity to do that.
I mean, if your conferencerooms are sterile and you can't
wait to get out of there fastenough, are they really going to
sit there and brainstorm andreflect on how they can be
(37:51):
better at their work?
And the other piece of this islike even lunch, like the
building that my team works in.
When we got here, we found thebreak ground.
It was down in an unfinishedbasement and the only reason we
knew was the cabinet was filledwith all of the stuff that you
would have in an employee breakroom.
And I was like these employeeshad to sit in this cold, musty
(38:17):
break room so they never tooktheir lunches, they never took
any, like they would eat attheir desks.
And so could you imagine theopposite If you had this
beautiful, like large windows oroutside garden space?
I mean, we have a hospital,like right down the street.
They have a walking path that'stwo miles because they have the
land for it and they encouragethe community to come use it.
But the employees use that, andso you know there's something
(38:39):
about nature.
I forget who it is, but thereis a company out and then this
was me being educated by some ofmy college students, which is
probably why I'm not hip enoughto know who it was specifically.
But there are companies thatare out West who make time for
their employees to go surfingbecause they've seen the
productivity increase when theyget them outside.
(38:59):
There you go.
Thank you See, I'm not hip.
There you go.
That's another nerd.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
That's a college book .
Yvonne Shannar, the CEO, wrotethe book.
Let my people go surfing, butyeah, that's you know what.
That just reminded me.
I got to reread that book.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Yeah, so I mean.
But I mean like those things.
I mean thinking outside the box.
That's bringing more yin intothe workplace.
That's better than those One ofthose biggest loser programs we
used to do or make it on thisscale, don't remind me.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
All right, we're going to go there, we're going
to go here.
So um I wellness programs likein their traditional format
drive me crazy.
The whole like the biggestloser program.
Um was my least favorite thingto do and I it felt like it's
like we're turning this thingthat's supposed to be healthy
(39:49):
and fun and exciting into thiscompetition amongst the same 10
people that always do thesechallenges and the other 300
people are like this is a stupidthing again.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Very accurately recapped that pile.
We all just went right backthere Feeling it, feeling it
right now.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, let's do weigh-ins, let's go make
everybody stand on a scale,let's record that number,
because everybody loves that,and let's get employee
engagement up.
Anybody who's with me, right?
Who in a room thought this isgoing to be great.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
What's even better is let's use the break room
bulletin board to track it andgive everybody like a icon of
some sort so we could all see it.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
And the best part is guess who is like the obligatory
team captain, HR, right?
So like all of us who are likethis is the stupidest thing ever
, but corporate's making me dothis thing.
Guess, I get a weigh-in everyweek.
Here you go.
Sorry, you know it feels great.
I love this.
Speaker 1 (40:47):
But I'll give you a Fitbit.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Yeah, here's a Fitbit , yeah, here's a Fitbit.
And, and you know what, the thewinner gets an iPad right, or
an iPod, or it was an iPod.
At that point, oh, good stuff,I don't miss.
We don't do that in my.
Yeah, we don't do that in mycompany, but, uh, you know, I do
, you know, I.
I think I don't know what youropinion there is, but I think
part of the issue with that typeof an approach is it's, you
know, wellness is so personal,you know, and well being is so
(41:17):
personal, and it's a whole lotmore than how heavy are you?
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think that's you knowwhat we're talking about here.
I mean, you know, I would loveto be able to hop on and say
here are the top five ways tomake everything go away.
It's not going to work likethat.
It's different for every one ofus.
Even the way that I do Qigongis different than all of my
peers in my programs.
(41:41):
The way that we cultivate ourenergy it's very different.
Some of them do practice an houra day, minds in short bursts
throughout the day.
And even Kyle, you said afterour last conversation talking to
the people you've built apractice that works for you and
makes sense for you, and that'sthe only time that it's
effective.
If you try to pick up something, you might get a piece of a
(42:05):
part that's meant to be yourpractice and just recognize that
.
Don't think that one's supposedto be the answer and if you
can't do it, that you're afailure and it doesn't work for
you.
My biggest pet peeve is whenpeople say I can't do that.
(42:26):
I can't quiet my monkey mind.
I'm just a very active person.
What I hear is you're a veryyoung person and you even need
yin more than ever.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
So you just described me 100% in more than ever.
So you just described me 100%.
I mean, I and you know to get alittle bit personal here so I
am a um, you know, a workaholicin many respects.
Um, especially during COVIDquarantine, cause that's just
all I did, is I just worked.
Um, I'm a triathlete and so youknow more hard, hard exercise,
(42:56):
push yourself as hard as you can, push yourself as long as you
can until you, your body, breaksdown.
And I had absolutely no, nopractice that allowed for any
sort of mindfulness or quietnessor anything, until a few months
ago, after listening to allthese smart people say hey, you
know, this is something youshould think about.
And I just downloaded an appfor free and started listening
(43:19):
to guided meditations and Ifound that visualizing for me
it's the kind of the chakravisualization and, for whatever
reason, it works for me.
You know, and I don't know, youknow I I'm not like doing like
crystal healing or anything likethat, but for me that just the
just focusing my mind on thatallows my mind to quiet down,
(43:43):
and then, and then what's prettycool is then it allows my mind
to start to wander into thingsthat are actually kind of the
intent of what I want to focuson and think about, things like
my family and and kindness andand you know, and and respect
for others and the, the trueperson that I want to be Right
(44:03):
and, but it's but like, if I cando it, anybody can do it,
because I'm just like monkeymind is like, that's like the
definition of how my mind works.
I mean that's um, that's justthe way it is.
So I mean I, I would encourageeverybody to think about it.
I mean there's so muchinformation out there.
Um, there's a million differentapps.
Most of this stuff is free.
(44:24):
Um, you can, you can get, youknow, get a teacher, get
somebody to help you.
Uh, and, with that in mind, sam, I want to ask how can our
listeners connect with you andlearn more about your practice
and just and and get a littlebit more information on this
topic?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, absolutely so.
The best way to get ahold of meis to go to our website, which
is the heart centercom.
It's spelled H R A R like HRart center, so my center is
completely devoted to HRpractitioners and helping them,
because that's how much, howdedicated I am to this work.
And just a couple things toplant seeds.
(45:02):
I know the reason why youbrought me on Kyle, and we have
a program that's like an eightweek disengagement detox program
that's specially made for HRpractitioners to basically an
eight weeks, feel like yourselfagain and remove all the
heaviness.
That's specially made for HRpractitioners to basically, in
eight weeks, feel like yourselfagain and remove all the
heaviness that's happening.
We do that in group coaching,so it's also a great supportive
(45:22):
community.
When you hear about that,you're not alone with all of
this.
And then the other piece is ifyou're somewhat intrigued by
Qigong.
I know it sounds really woo wooand my dad would say that he
thinks this whole thing is agigantic scam.
As I tell you this so that youknow what I mean.
But we do distance healing aswell.
So that means that wherever youare, I can actually connect
(45:45):
with you on zoom and do theenergy protocols to care for
your energy, which is removingthings that doesn't serve.
It, give you more energy andalso make you more balanced.
And I am a skeptic myself, andanytime somebody is willing to
take a chance on me, let's saythat there's the take a chance
on me kind of guarantee.
I'm not going to charge you ifyou feel like you just got duped
(46:07):
.
So but yeah, check it out onthe website.
There's tons of resources there.
And then, obviously, on mypodcast, the Heart of it podcast
, it's me and a bunch of othergreat guests to hop on.
We talk about making woo-woomore normal, but also a lot of
things that we talked abouttoday.
How should we be reevaluatingthe way that we're doing work in
this great opportunity thatwe're being given?
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Absolutely, and I wanna make sure I also mentioned
that the book is coming outit's called Workplace Healers in
June of 2022.
So go out there, get apre-order.
Check it out, Sam.
This has just been a wonderfulconversation.
I just want to thank you fordoing the work and helping to
make this, this type of practice, a little bit more mainstream
(46:50):
and and help some people thatreally need this type of support
get connected to it.
So thank you so much for allthe work you're doing.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Thank you so much, Kyle.
And then I expect next yearwe'll do this again and I'll
give the tutorial on coffeeenemas.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
Okay, we did it three times.
We mentioned it three times.
Hopefully that doesn't get usbanned from the podcast platform
.
I think we're probably okay,sam.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you so much.
We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Thanks, Kyle Thanks.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR podcast.
Twitter at Rebel HR guy or seeour website at
rebelhumanresources R podcast.
Twitter at Rebel HR Guy or seeour website at
RebelHumanResourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
(47:44):
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Baby.
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