November 20, 2024 • 37 mins
Have you ever wondered why some days everything feels overwhelming and how you can change that for the better? Join us as we sit down with the insightful Sheridan Ruth, a performance coach who transformed her career by understanding and harnessing the power of the nervous system. Through her own experiences in high-pressure environments, Sheridan felt the impact of being labeled as "too much" and has now dedicated her work to helping others manage similar challenges. Together, we explore how nervous system dysregulation, often triggered by past traumas, can lead to defensive behaviors in the workplace, and why it's crucial for leaders to recognize and manage these responses to foster innovation and support.
We take a deep dive into the world of the autonomic nervous system, which plays a critical role in shaping our experiences and perceptions. Sheridan explains how understanding this system can help us identify when our reactions are driven by perceived threats, leading to anxiety and defensiveness. Our conversation highlights practical techniques for stress management, from specific breathing exercises to creating personal rituals for work-life balance, all aimed at fostering genuine relaxation. Sheridan emphasizes the importance of recharging both mind and body to maintain productivity without falling into the burnout trap.
Wrapping up, Sheridan shares her strategies for supporting dysregulated employees and the pivotal role of HR in fostering a nurturing workplace. Emotional intelligence and prioritizing well-being over sheer productivity emerge as key themes in creating environments where employees feel seen and valued. Sheridan's insights remind us that sustainable success is rooted in holistic well-being and authentic human connection, with practical advice on fostering creativity and preventing burnout. Don't miss the chance to learn more about Sheridan's work and find resources to enhance your own path to a balanced and thriving professional life.
www.sheridanruth.com/regulate - Nervous System Cheat Sheet PDF Perfect for those mornings where you just find yourself in a funk of anxiety, procrastination, or self-consciousness and you need to shift it before your client calls.
www.sheridanruth.com/podcast - Sustainable Success; a podcast on burnout-free leadership
Rebel HR is a podcast for HR professionals and leaders of people who are ready to make some disruption in the world of work. Please connect to continue the conversation!
https://twitter.com/rebelhrguy
https://www.facebook.com/rebelhrpodcast
http://www.kyleroed.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-roed/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back, rebel HRcommunity.
We are going to have some funtoday.
With us, we have Sheridan Ruthshe is a performance coach and
we're going to be talking allabout the nervous system.
(00:25):
Sheridan, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you so much, kyle, and I'm really eager and
excited to jump into this witheverybody.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Well, me too, and this topic for me is absolutely
fascinating.
I'm so excited to dig into it.
The first question that I havefor you is what motivated you to
get into it?
The first question that I havefor you is what motivated you to
get into performance coachingand focus your work on the
nervous system.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
You know, a large part of it now that I really
think back was oh God.
This might make some of youhappy or sad, I'm not sure, but
when I started working I was ateenager and I was already
filled with all of my owninsecurities.
I lost my hair when I was sevenyears old and that was really
hard on me, but I was a teenagerbut I was really smart and I
(01:13):
was really good at what I wasdoing.
You know, I was like one ofthose people that if you gave me
a job, I would just go andexcel with it, just go and excel
with it.
But somehow I kept ending upwith these bosses that were just
not good to me and they, theywould criticize me or they would
(01:38):
put me in the wrong role orthey would get upset when I
would ask for, you know,something like you know, we have
, we'd have breaks and I wouldwant my appropriate breaks that
I'm entitled to, and it wasactually just this really toxic,
um, kind of like push, push,push, keep, go, go, go, and I
was like you know, we could, wecould do this work without, um,
you know, um, being so exhausted, or we could do this better,
(02:01):
and that seemed to kind ofthreaten them, especially
because I was really young and Iquickly came to the resolution
that I just couldn't be employedand people said to me you know,
you're too opinionated.
Or I actually had people say tome you're too smart for this,
so I need to, we need to put yousomewhere else, because you
can't be smarter than your boss,or or you're too big, smarter
(02:24):
than your boss, or you're toobig, like those words, like
you're too big, your energy istoo big, so we need to put you
in this place because it likeoutshines your colleague.
And then I ended up working infinance, like we spoke about,
and it was really just like thattoxic New York commercial real
estate finance, go, go, go.
(02:46):
And I couldn't deal with it andso I went like the full swing
the other way, ended up in yogatherapy and somehow I've kind of
found my way back to a bit of amiddle ground.
But honestly, toxic workenvironments.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
For all of us that have ever been told you're too
much, I feel, seen right now.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, what are you supposed to do with that?
What do you do with thatfeedback?
When someone says, hey, you'rejust too much, your energy is
too big, right, that that's a,that's a pretty uh worthless, uh
comment that you really can'tdo anything with, right?
So, um.
So kudos to you, I think, forfor jumping into um the world of
(03:36):
what I would call like likehelping others right and trying
to trying to help correct uh,the experience that you had and
I and I know that you've, youknow you've been working on this
here and and kind ofcultivating this practice over
the years.
I'm curious, as you startedworking with clients and as
you've been a performance coach,what are some, some common
(04:02):
things that you see that that weshould be mindful of in our
workplaces?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I think at the end of the day it comes back to, I
have to say, nervous systemdysregulation, and I'll explain
a little bit what that means ina second.
But the reason that somebodysaid to me that I was too much
was because I generated insideof them a discomfort and they
(04:30):
didn't know how to deal with it.
So they kind of saw me as athreat to their safety, to their
sense of self, to their senseof confidence or their capacity
or even just their knowledge.
You know, if I look at it frommy my boss at the time, he was
like, okay, well, here she is,she's asking for these things
(04:51):
that I can't give her, and sothat makes my body feel really
unsafe.
And so what do I do?
I go into the fight mode and Iattack.
And I think back to that and Ithink, well, if that man would
have had an ability or astrategy or a tool to be able to
recognize inside of himself.
Okay, I have just hiredsomebody who is, who is, without
(05:18):
sounding arrogant, smarter thanI anticipated, and let's just
go with bigger or too much.
She's just bigger than Ianticipated, and I'm finding it
a challenge for my leadership.
Okay, let me, let me likeground.
Let me just be with that for asecond in my body.
Let me not throw that out ontoher, and let me find enough
(05:41):
space inside of my body where Ican respond to this in a
creative and an innovative wayand start looking at maybe what
I, what I need to do with thisindividual.
Then we both would have avoidedsomething that was probably very
painful for us.
I don't think that that was verypleasant for him to say those
things to me or to treat me inthat way, and it certainly did
(06:02):
not work very well for thebusiness.
And so, at the end of the day,it's that dysregulation where
our body starts to perceive thatwe're all separate from each
other and that we all need to goup against each other to
achieve something.
Or I need to attack you orattack myself, or avoid that
(06:24):
difficult conversation, or avoidthat individual completely, or
I go into a place of like realhopelessness where I feel like I
can't deal with it.
I think the biggest, the biggerproblem, is that we're trying
to navigate the world in abeautiful, beautiful way,
(06:46):
because we're all here, becausewe actually we do care, we do
want something good, but ourbodies perceive it differently,
and until we learn to recognizewhat's going on in the body, the
story that it has about what'shappening, and then separate
from it enough that we caninfluence the body, calm it down
and then respond from our heartor our creativity or our values
(07:09):
, it's just going to be reallydifficult to change the
workplace.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Absolutely, you know.
I think putting in that contextis really powerful for a couple
of reasons.
Number one, I think you know, Ithink many of us have either
been in that situation ourselvesor interacted with a manager
who is struggling, to quote,handle an employee, right, you
(07:37):
know, and putting it in thecontext of, like, nervous system
dysregulation, it actuallygives you a level of kind of
empathy with that individualthat they just don't know, don't
have the tools or the capacityto understand what's happening
and probably won't handle itcorrectly or appropriately if
they aren't actively aware of it.
(07:59):
Right, you know, and and Ithink about when, I think about
a bunch of scenarios, when youdescribe that where I've had,
you know, I've, I've had thesewords used where, like, the word
you use was somebody's too much, or the words I've heard is
somebody's not a fit, orsomebody's too disruptive, or,
you know, somebody's just nothere's the term for you
(08:20):
Somebody's just not a companyman, right, you know, there's,
there's all of these kinds ofthese, these coded words that
people use, uh, when this ishappening.
But putting it in the context of, well, actually what's
happening is your nervous systemis dysregulated and you're
uncomfortable for some reason,is a very different conversation
, right.
So, um, so, for somebody that'sbeen through this and you've
(08:43):
you've had this lived experienceand then you've also gone and
kind of done the work on what ittakes to go from dysregulation
to regulation within yournervous system, what guidance
would you give us, as we areeither observing this in
ourselves or observing this inour leadership teams?
How can we, how can we kind ofhelp people move through this
(09:04):
into something that's actuallybeneficial?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, that's a great question.
The first thing we need to dois we need to understand what
the nervous system is, then weneed to recognize our tendencies
of dysregulation, then we needto learn how to regulate, and
then we can kind of build on itand use other tools to be like
oh, how do I get more creative?
What does my communication looklike?
(09:28):
Let's just focus on the basicones and I'll go over them very
high level.
And what I might do, carl, isI'll send you a link you can
share with everyone.
I have a PDF that goes intothis in much more detail and,
especially if everyone's visual,they can kind of like follow
along with it.
Perfect, uh.
So first thing we need to knowis what is our nervous system?
(09:49):
So right now, what we'respeaking about is the system of
nerves that is autonomic, thatruns through your body and
communicates between the brainand the body.
So it's so.
It's a system of nerves thatruns from the brainstem.
It goes all the way back down,it runs to our organs.
(10:11):
It's the way that your body cantell if it's hungry.
It sends information up anddown, tells if it's hungry, it
can tell us if there's threataround, and its main job is to
do two things Number one keepyou safe, so keep you not dying.
Not even just keep you safe,just prevent you from dying.
And number two save energy,just in case you need it, in
(10:36):
case there's a threat later.
That is all it cares about.
Doesn't care if you'refulfilled, doesn't care if
you're happy, doesn't care ifyou're doing a good job at work.
Am I not dead?
Am I expending the least amountof energy in doing so?
So it's always communicatingand it's the foundational way
(10:58):
you experience life.
Every single thought, sensationand emotion, or even the way
that you kind of perceive andlike not even think about things
, but the way that they areshaped and you receive them, is
created by your nervous system.
Okay, and that's the reason whyone event can happen and six
(11:20):
people can look at it in sixdifferent ways, or even 12
different ways, because everyonecan look at it from at least
one or two perspectives.
And so when we influence andunderstand the nervous system,
we change the way that weexperience our entire life.
Now, the nervous system getsdysregulated when it perceives
that there is a threat to itsresources, its safety, its
(11:43):
identity, um, its level ofrespect, if, particularly in a
workplace, uh, we need to berespected, because if we're not
respected, people won't lead us,and if we people don't lead us
and there's a problem when wecan't save people from the
problem because they didn't leadus.
You know what I mean Entity,threat to our respect, resources
(12:08):
, money, it can even just likeget perceive, a threat to
something uncomfortable in thebody.
So if we go back to that, if wego back to like a not a company
man right, well, you, being nota company man, might create
inside of me.
It might actually remind me ofthat one time that I got really
(12:28):
excited about this is me beinghypothetical, but I got really
excited about somebody being inmy life and then they left and
that reminded me of the timethat my mom left, and now my
abandonment wound is triggeredat work.
I say there's just somethingnot right about them.
(12:50):
They're not a fit, they don't,they're not loyal, but really
it's just that they havemannerisms that remind me of
something that my ex did orsomething, but you can't see
that because it's so subtle.
And so, yeah, are you followingso far or do you have any
questions about that?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, so I think so, I think it's fascinating to.
I think the biggest takeaway, Ithink, in the nervous system
kind of research is, um, sooften we like we judge this
experience right, like it's like, oh, this person's you know
overreacting or you know, butbut the reality is the nervous
(13:29):
system, it's, it's it'shappening for a really, really
good reason.
It's happening because it's itsaves our species from perishing
, right, like it literally likekept you from dying and saved
energy.
Like that's what we needed backwhen we were, you know,
foraging and nomadic, you know,beings.
Yeah, now it doesn'tnecessarily work in the age of,
(13:51):
you know, digital technology andcorporate workplaces, so so
it's it's, you know, I thinkhonoring that and like being
open-minded to that, I think isreally really important, and
then we can, once we stopjudging it now, we can actually
start to analyze it and figureout how it works.
So, yeah, so, okay.
(14:12):
So I'm following you with and Ithink that, like the
subconscious, like reaction,because somebody, you know, like
the subconscious reaction,because somebody subconsciously
reminds you of a previouspartner or some level of trauma
that you incurred in your life,for whatever reason.
(14:34):
So take us through that.
When that's occurring, how dowe know that it's happening to
us.
Let's start there.
Like, like how do we recognizethat?
Oh, this might be, this mightbe my nervous system getting
dysregulated.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Like, like how do we start there?
Yeah, so this is where, for thevisual people, the PDF is going
to come in handy.
And what's going to happen isyou're going to notice that your
body and your mind start torespond in a couple of different
ways.
So we might have the fightresponse or the flight response,
which are what we call thesympathetic nervous system
(15:08):
activating.
That's when there's energyactivated in the body and your
body perceives the threat assomething that you can run away
from or fight, and so it usuallylooks like some level of
feeling.
It can be kind of like there'stense muscles.
(15:29):
You're fidgety, you kind ofjust want to like get on with
things and get moving.
You want to like get out ofthere, kind of like get it all
done.
You also feel really likeanxious or panicky or worried or
defensive, and I see this kindof coming out in two different
ways.
We can kind of take it out ontoother people, so like they have
(15:49):
to fix this thing, they have todo it quicker, they're not
enough, they're too much.
Or we can take it ontoourselves and we can be like oh
my God, I didn't do that, Ididn't do that quick enough, I
could have done that better.
Why is this so hard for me?
I'm so annoyed at myself.
I can't believe that I'm doingthis again.
I don't know I'm not doingenough.
And what usually happens is wespend a lot of time in this
(16:12):
activated space that can feelvery energized in the body, and
you might even see these peoplein the office.
They're like they're runningaround doing stuff, right, yeah,
yeah, totally Uh-huh.
And guys, yeah, carla's likerunning.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So, for those that can't see, I'm like, I'm like
mimicking a run right now.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And we almost, uh, glorify them because they're
really productive.
Probably or at least theyappear to be productive they're
probably the person in theoffice that drinks six coffees a
day and doesn't like to be calm.
It's really difficult to beslow and to be calm when we're
(16:51):
in this place, and so you mightnotice that that is a way that
you are in a lot of the day, orit even is just like around a
certain person.
You tense up a little bit, yourjaw gets a little bit tense,
you kind of squeeze your body alittle bit.
So that would be a sympatheticresponse and that would tell you
you're dysregulated.
Another one would be what wecall I call it the blue zone,
(17:15):
but technically it's calleddocile, vagal, and it's some
level of shutdown.
This is when your body thinksthat the threat, the person in
front of you or the situation isso big that the most effective
way is to just play dead.
It's so big and you're notstrong enough, so we play dead.
(17:37):
This is that employee thatdoesn't just, they just don't do
stuff.
You know they just.
And it's that employee, youknow those ones you've seen and
or a colleague, or maybe it'syou, and at the beginning, when
they started they had heaps ofreally good ideas and they would
um, they would make decisionsby themselves and they would uh,
they would make suggestions.
(17:58):
But they got shut down so manytimes that now they've just
stopped and if you're like tothem, oh yeah, but have you
suggested thing?
They're like there's no point,it's just not going to work.
That's that person and there'sjust low energy.
You feel heavy, you feel weak.
You can probably hear it alittle bit in my voice and then
(18:18):
you can probably feel it in yourbody.
You kind of just start feelinglike there's no point.
These people tend to be alittle bit more depressive or
lethargic.
It's really hard to get up inthe morning.
You're just tired and youbreathe slower.
You don't like to look atpeople, these people with these
(18:41):
tendencies.
I find them less in middle tosenior management, because it's
hard to do the things that needto be done from this place to
get you to that level.
So you might have them less,but it doesn't mean that it
isn't a tendency and that itwon't exist inside of you or
(19:03):
people around you absolutely so,it's.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So this is fascinating to me.
So because I think that like,naming, like, like actually
identifying these types ofthings is really important, so I
went through, I, I did somekind of some workshops on this a
number of months ago and Iactually, I actually I figured
out, I realized that throughmuch of my career I was actually
operating within thesympathetic nervous system.
I was just like highfunctioning fight or flight mode
(19:28):
where it's like very, veryfrantic, but, you know,
generally effective, um, youknow, and in certain scenarios,
like like, really effective yeahum, you know, especially like,
like you know, when you're youknow,
dealing with like, almost likean emergency level situation or
something like that.
But, um, but you're justflooding yourself with cortisol
(19:49):
and and it's like, it's like the, it's like just a recipe for
absolute burnout and it reallyit doesn't allow you to make
great decisions, right?
So, like it's, it's uh, itmight look good on the outside,
but you know, I think we allhave that coworker that runs
around and brags about like I'mon my 12th cup of coffee Look
how amazing I am.
It's actually like, oh, I needto help you.
(20:13):
Like you need help.
Like can I help you?
Like, take a breath, please,please.
And I can see it now.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
but that was me for a number of years right Totally.
Did you find that people?
So there's two things I want tosay about that.
I want to make sure we comeback to what makes work
fulfilling, because we need thatsympathetic response.
I'm sure that that wassatisfying for you on some level
for a really long time, untilit wasn't, and but did you find
(20:47):
that people almost respected youor you became like the?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
go-to guy to get things done in some way.
Yeah, like, like, I'll justtell an.
I'll use an example here.
So I used to be the guy thatthe minute I'd get an email, I'd
like respond like really,really like like a hair trigger
response, and so, and peoplewould like so.
Then I became Mr Reliable, mrDependable, like Kyle will email
you, you know, within I don'tknow 30 minutes without fail.
(21:15):
But what ended up happening isI just, you know, you just burn
out, you just kind of spinaround so, and that it actually
created like an overwhelming,like like I just got so much
work I couldn't get it all done,so it became, it became
detrimental, but but itabsolutely made a name for me as
like Mr Reliable, right, so itwas.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
There was some level of like, of positive ripple from
that and be reliable or respondin ways that are quite
necessary, especially in a lotof different places.
(22:06):
How do I have that level ofcapacity inside of my body
without going into a sympatheticresponse?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Right, yeah, and what I found?
My personal experience, what Ifound is I have a pretty deep
reservoir for holding stress,but once I hit that, it's like
flame out, Like like it's justlike you know, I like completely
(22:36):
overwhelmed.
Um, and now you know, now I can, I can manage it more
effectively.
Um, but you know, if you sayyes to everything, you're saying
no to a lot of things thatmatter.
So, um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Okay, Well let's talk about regulating, so we don't
leave everybody hanging.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Does that feel okay?
Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Let's talk about that .
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah.
So I'm going to make it supersimple and for more specific
stuff, once again, pdf.
In the PDF I have like a listof things you can do that will
help you regulate based on yourzone or your tendency.
That don't require time orspace or privacy.
They're not woo-woo, they'revery simple.
It's like do this type of yoga,run your hands and wrists under
(23:19):
cold water, so everyone can goand look at that list.
But what we're going to rememberon a more foundational level is
that when you're sympathetic,you have energy in your body
that needs to be moved until youfind relaxation.
So it's like what's happeningis your body thinks you're
running from a bear, and if wewere all running from a bear,
(23:41):
what would happen is we wouldrun, run, run, run, run, run,
run.
Okay, no bear anymore.
Great, oh, take a big seat,deep, big, deep breath, and then
we would go and we would look ahuman in the eyes and be like,
far out, we did it, let's gohave some champagne.
(24:04):
And so we need to create that,and so I think, even like
knowing that even the ideathat's coming to me right now is
that you can help as somebodyin HR.
You can actually really helpthe team by celebrating at the
end of a sprint let's say you'redoing a sprint by celebrating
and actually doing somethingthat gets them in that rest
response and like fully bringsthem down and having like a good
day or like a three-day weekendto actually just like, oh okay,
(24:27):
we did that, we got it doneLike really resting and
educating on how important thatis, because that's where we
replenish the body and the brainwith the creativity that is
necessary, the body and thebrain with the creativity that
is necessary for your nextsprint.
Because the reason that webecome burnt out is because we
don't experience that completion.
(24:48):
We always run on cortisol, wedon't come back down, we don't
find the serotonin and theoxytocin and that connection and
relaxation that replenishes it.
So if you are, if you tend moreto that, it's just can you find
a way to move that energythrough the body?
It might be that you takewalking meetings you got to move
(25:12):
the energy.
It might be that you go to thegym before you go home you got
to move that energy.
But then, more importantly, canyou relax without depending on
a substance?
So a lot of the time we findour body craves that relaxation
and so we'll have a glass ofwine.
That's not great because yourbody doesn't actually find it.
(25:38):
It's like so can you just take afew deep breaths?
That's where it's like justtake three deep breaths.
Actually, can we do it rightnow?
We're going to do thesympathetic, the three-part sigh
.
If anyone knows Andrew Huberman, he's really into nervous
system stuff and these are thesighs that you know, like Navy
SEALs and everyone does.
So we're going to do them rightnow.
Are you ready?
Here we go.
(26:00):
Okay, so you're going to do.
You're going to inhale all theway up with your lips closed,
inhale through the nostril, thenyou're going to sip in a little
bit more and then you're goingto exhale yeah, and then you
want to do that two more times.
So one more time inhale, zip in, exhale.
(26:24):
There we go cool so that's whatwe, that's one way.
Um, if you tend more to thatshutdown, you're feeling really
lethargic, which will happenafter you've spent a lot of time
in cortisol.
You need to activate energy,which means you need everything
(26:45):
that is activating.
You need sun, you need citrus,you need to get up and move your
body.
You need to go for a dance, youneed to go to the gym.
You need fun and sun anythingthat is activating.
You need to get up, you need tolift some weights, you need to
do a breath work where you do alot of inhalations.
(27:07):
So, wim Hof, breathing is veryhelpful for that.
If you're guys into ice bathsand things like that, wim Hof,
breathing is really helpful, butyou need to get up and you need
to get out and you need tospecifically get energy into
your limbs.
I don't care what it is that youdo, but get energy into your
limbs and that reminds the body.
(27:29):
Oh, I felt like I needed toshut down, but it's actually
okay.
It's actually okay and thatcould just be wiggling your toes
while you're having.
If you're having like a reallydifficult conversation, you feel
yourself shutting down.
It might even just be kind oflike pressing on your thighs,
just to remind your body thatwe've got some energy there and
it's okay, and I've got this andwe're not.
(27:49):
We're not, everything's okay.
It could be as simple as thatand most people won't teach it
to you like this.
But that's how you regulate andthat's how you make it
accessible.
Won't teach it to you like this, but that's how you regulate
and that's how you make itaccessible.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Am I clear when I say these things?
Yes, yeah, and I I think Ithink what's really powerful
here is like you can do this atwork, right, like you don't have
to go, you don't have to go tolike a you know shamanic retreat
, and like you do anythingthat's like super crazy.
Like you can do breath worksitting in your cubicle.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Right, it's not, you know it's, it's absolutely
feasible.
And thinking about thesetechniques in that context, um,
I think is is is reallyinteresting.
Um, what if we see somebodyelse that's struggling with this
and and like I'm just thinkingas an hr professional, a lot of
times I, a lot of times I seelike somebody I'm, I'm with and
(28:49):
I can just tell like, oh, thatyou are dysregulated, you need
to, like, you need help.
How do you recommend that weactually help somebody who who
might be in one of thesedysregulated states and like how
can we, how can we like do thisin a way that you would
recommend that's not likeembarrassing or too awkward?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah Well, I think number one is like don't try to
convince them of anything.
Don't be that guy that's like,hey, I've got this really good
resource, until there's kind ofa switch in the moment, um in
the in the conversation, whereyou can recommend that.
But what you don't want to dois be the person that either
(29:29):
tries to convince them thateverything's okay.
Their body can't see it andwon't see it.
That's a waste of your energy.
Tries to recommend them to dosomething.
Their body is literally tryingnot to die and to not expend
energy.
Why do they care aboutlistening to the podcast?
They don't care, unless theykind of do and like there's some
(29:50):
renown again where theyactually might ask for help and
you can be like, oh, I didlisten to this podcast and you
can send it over.
But don't necessarily be thatperson that just like gives them
more resources because theirbody feels overwhelmed and is
unlikely to want to take on more.
What I always prefer torecommend is number one when
(30:11):
you're sitting with them, embodygroundedness.
What I specifically mean is beslow in your breathing.
What I specifically mean is beslow in your breathing, and
sometimes the way that I do thisis, I think, about sending my
breath to the back of my ribs onmy spine and breathing into the
(30:34):
back of my body, and when youcan embody that groundedness and
when you can embody thatgroundedness, you help them and
their body start to see thatit's safe to be present.
Now they can lock into aconversation with you more and
(30:57):
then you can do what I callfinding the emotion underneath
the dysregulation.
There's a reason that thatperson is running around because
a lot of the time, if not allthe time, as humans we actually
become dysregulated because weare avoiding feeling an emotion
(31:18):
in our body.
We are avoiding feeling anemotion in our body.
The guy that's drinking all thecoffee might be afraid that
they're going to fail, they'renot going to do a good enough
job, and that would be reallyembarrassing.
And then what would they do forthem and their kids?
Or the woman who just feelslike she can't do it anymore and
(31:38):
she's made a millionrecommendations and nobody's
listening is avoiding feelingthat feeling of discouragement
or disappointment.
And so I recommend usually justfinding that emotion and just
almost like reflecting it backand like, oh, it sounds like
you're kind of disappointed, notbecoming a therapist, but just
seeing that there's an emotion,a human underneath.
(32:01):
It Sounds like there's a lotgoing on at home, sounds like
you're holding a lot of, doesn'tit Like it's a pretty stressful
period of time, like thatsounds pretty intense and
validating it, or it sounds likethat's really important to you
and just seeing how, seeing ifyou can just find that emotion
underneath and then get on thesame page with them.
(32:24):
I hope that it's like findingtheir motivation.
Why are they here?
What is important for them intheir life?
What are their goals right now?
Are their goals even related towork?
They may not be Like findingthat human underneath and then,
when you've got that, that isthe place where now they feel
(32:45):
safe and seen enough that theycould, they could actually
receive your advice, and so thatis the place where you'd be
like you know, I did see thisone resource.
I have heard about this onething and I reckon it might help
you.
What do you reckon that placeis where they're going to
receive you.
You're smiling.
What are you thinking?
Yeah, yeah're going to receiveyou.
You're smiling.
What are you thinking?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I think this is, you know,
it's so much of this is aboutlike it's.
It's getting through the like,like getting to the heart of of
who you're actually talking to,right and and and embodying what
I think hr should be, which isan actual resource and somebody
(33:23):
who is emotionally intelligentenough to observe when somebody
is dysregulated and help themfeel safe.
And for me, that's really theroot of the work as it relates
to how we help others, of thework as it relates to how we
help others.
But, as we've been talking here, this all starts with yourself,
(33:45):
right?
You have to be able to observethis in yourself and then
reflect that and then you canstart to help others.
So, with that being said and Isaid this before I hit record, I
know we're just going to getlike warmed up and want to
continue the conversation.
I want to be mindful of yourtime, and so we are towards the
(34:07):
end of our time together, butI'm fascinated to hear your
responses to the Rebel HR flashround.
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
All right.
Question number one where do weneed to rebel?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
to rebel.
We need to rebel in not youarticulated it really well
earlier, so I'm trying to findthem back.
We need to rebel in that weneed to prioritize enough the
human inside of every singleperson in the workplace over the
illusion of productivity andsuccess and achievement, because
humans are more creative.
Humans are more innovative, buthumans, when they're focused,
(34:50):
they're actually more productivethan a dysregulated human.
It doesn't appear that way atfirst, but it's true.
So we need to rebel againstthis idea that being the guy
that's reliable and getseverything done and runs around
doing it all is the best way tobe.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I love it.
I love it.
Question number two who shouldwe be listening to?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Our bodies, but the real sensation underneath our
bodies.
We need to learn it.
You need to learn to understandwhat is real intuition and
instinct and your body'sintelligence, not just
dysregulation or fear or habit.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I love it.
Yeah, and I think this is oneyou know as someone as a
self-described kind of likeautonomic fight or flight junkie
for most of my career.
You get really good atdisconnecting yeah Right, like
that's, because it's a copingmechanism.
Because then you get reallygood at disconnecting yeah Right
, like you, that's because it'sa coping mechanism, because then
you can just get more stuffdone.
Um, that doesn't mean you'renecessarily effective, it just
(35:50):
makes you feel better.
So I love that you have thatreminder to connect and listen
and truly listen.
Yeah, all right.
Last question here.
So we already talked about thePDF.
I'll make sure we get a link ofthat to the show notes.
How can our listeners learnmore and connect with you?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, thank you.
Sustainable Success is mypodcast.
It's Sustainable Success.
My name is Sheridan Ruth.
You can also find me just atSheridanRuthcom LinkedIn,
instagram, but probably that PDFwill orient you to all the
right places and Carl will takecare of you.
For that, thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Absolutely, sheridan.
This has been an absolutelywonderful conversation.
I just really can't thank youenough for the work that you're
doing and I just appreciate thedifference that you're making in
the workplace.
Thank you for spending sometime with us today, and you're
going to help a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR Podcast, twitter at Rebel HR
Guy, or see our website atrebelhumanresourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
(37:05):
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Baby.
This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all
things innovation in thepeople's space.
I'm Kyle Rode.
Let's start the show.
Welcome back, rebel HRcommunity.
We are going to have some funtoday.
With us, we have Sheridan Ruthshe is a performance coach and
we're going to be talking allabout the nervous system.
(00:25):
Sheridan, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Thank you so much, kyle, and I'm really eager and
excited to jump into this witheverybody.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Well, me too, and this topic for me is absolutely
fascinating.
I'm so excited to dig into it.
The first question that I havefor you is what motivated you to
get into it?
The first question that I havefor you is what motivated you to
get into performance coachingand focus your work on the
nervous system.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
You know, a large part of it now that I really
think back was oh God.
This might make some of youhappy or sad, I'm not sure, but
when I started working I was ateenager and I was already
filled with all of my owninsecurities.
I lost my hair when I was sevenyears old and that was really
hard on me, but I was a teenagerbut I was really smart and I
(01:13):
was really good at what I wasdoing.
You know, I was like one ofthose people that if you gave me
a job, I would just go andexcel with it, just go and excel
with it.
But somehow I kept ending upwith these bosses that were just
not good to me and they, theywould criticize me or they would
(01:38):
put me in the wrong role orthey would get upset when I
would ask for, you know,something like you know, we have
, we'd have breaks and I wouldwant my appropriate breaks that
I'm entitled to, and it wasactually just this really toxic,
um, kind of like push, push,push, keep, go, go, go, and I
was like you know, we could, wecould do this work without, um,
you know, um, being so exhausted, or we could do this better,
(02:01):
and that seemed to kind ofthreaten them, especially
because I was really young and Iquickly came to the resolution
that I just couldn't be employedand people said to me you know,
you're too opinionated.
Or I actually had people say tome you're too smart for this,
so I need to, we need to put yousomewhere else, because you
can't be smarter than your boss,or or you're too big, smarter
(02:24):
than your boss, or you're toobig, like those words, like
you're too big, your energy istoo big, so we need to put you
in this place because it likeoutshines your colleague.
And then I ended up working infinance, like we spoke about,
and it was really just like thattoxic New York commercial real
estate finance, go, go, go.
(02:46):
And I couldn't deal with it andso I went like the full swing
the other way, ended up in yogatherapy and somehow I've kind of
found my way back to a bit of amiddle ground.
But honestly, toxic workenvironments.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
For all of us that have ever been told you're too
much, I feel, seen right now.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Right yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, what are you supposed to do with that?
What do you do with thatfeedback?
When someone says, hey, you'rejust too much, your energy is
too big, right, that that's a,that's a pretty uh worthless, uh
comment that you really can'tdo anything with, right?
So, um.
So kudos to you, I think, forfor jumping into um the world of
(03:36):
what I would call like likehelping others right and trying
to trying to help correct uh,the experience that you had and
I and I know that you've, youknow you've been working on this
here and and kind ofcultivating this practice over
the years.
I'm curious, as you startedworking with clients and as
you've been a performance coach,what are some, some common
(04:02):
things that you see that that weshould be mindful of in our
workplaces?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I think at the end of the day it comes back to, I
have to say, nervous systemdysregulation, and I'll explain
a little bit what that means ina second.
But the reason that somebodysaid to me that I was too much
was because I generated insideof them a discomfort and they
(04:30):
didn't know how to deal with it.
So they kind of saw me as athreat to their safety, to their
sense of self, to their senseof confidence or their capacity
or even just their knowledge.
You know, if I look at it frommy my boss at the time, he was
like, okay, well, here she is,she's asking for these things
(04:51):
that I can't give her, and sothat makes my body feel really
unsafe.
And so what do I do?
I go into the fight mode and Iattack.
And I think back to that and Ithink, well, if that man would
have had an ability or astrategy or a tool to be able to
recognize inside of himself.
Okay, I have just hiredsomebody who is, who is, without
(05:18):
sounding arrogant, smarter thanI anticipated, and let's just
go with bigger or too much.
She's just bigger than Ianticipated, and I'm finding it
a challenge for my leadership.
Okay, let me, let me likeground.
Let me just be with that for asecond in my body.
Let me not throw that out ontoher, and let me find enough
(05:41):
space inside of my body where Ican respond to this in a
creative and an innovative wayand start looking at maybe what
I, what I need to do with thisindividual.
Then we both would have avoidedsomething that was probably very
painful for us.
I don't think that that was verypleasant for him to say those
things to me or to treat me inthat way, and it certainly did
(06:02):
not work very well for thebusiness.
And so, at the end of the day,it's that dysregulation where
our body starts to perceive thatwe're all separate from each
other and that we all need to goup against each other to
achieve something.
Or I need to attack you orattack myself, or avoid that
(06:24):
difficult conversation, or avoidthat individual completely, or
I go into a place of like realhopelessness where I feel like I
can't deal with it.
I think the biggest, the biggerproblem, is that we're trying
to navigate the world in abeautiful, beautiful way,
(06:46):
because we're all here, becausewe actually we do care, we do
want something good, but ourbodies perceive it differently,
and until we learn to recognizewhat's going on in the body, the
story that it has about what'shappening, and then separate
from it enough that we caninfluence the body, calm it down
and then respond from our heartor our creativity or our values
(07:09):
, it's just going to be reallydifficult to change the
workplace.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Absolutely, you know.
I think putting in that contextis really powerful for a couple
of reasons.
Number one, I think you know, Ithink many of us have either
been in that situation ourselvesor interacted with a manager
who is struggling, to quote,handle an employee, right, you
(07:37):
know, and putting it in thecontext of, like, nervous system
dysregulation, it actuallygives you a level of kind of
empathy with that individualthat they just don't know, don't
have the tools or the capacityto understand what's happening
and probably won't handle itcorrectly or appropriately if
they aren't actively aware of it.
(07:59):
Right, you know, and and Ithink about when, I think about
a bunch of scenarios, when youdescribe that where I've had,
you know, I've, I've had thesewords used where, like, the word
you use was somebody's too much, or the words I've heard is
somebody's not a fit, orsomebody's too disruptive, or,
you know, somebody's just nothere's the term for you
(08:20):
Somebody's just not a companyman, right, you know, there's,
there's all of these kinds ofthese, these coded words that
people use, uh, when this ishappening.
But putting it in the context of, well, actually what's
happening is your nervous systemis dysregulated and you're
uncomfortable for some reason,is a very different conversation
, right.
So, um, so, for somebody that'sbeen through this and you've
(08:43):
you've had this lived experienceand then you've also gone and
kind of done the work on what ittakes to go from dysregulation
to regulation within yournervous system, what guidance
would you give us, as we areeither observing this in
ourselves or observing this inour leadership teams?
How can we, how can we kind ofhelp people move through this
(09:04):
into something that's actuallybeneficial?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, that's a great question.
The first thing we need to dois we need to understand what
the nervous system is, then weneed to recognize our tendencies
of dysregulation, then we needto learn how to regulate, and
then we can kind of build on itand use other tools to be like
oh, how do I get more creative?
What does my communication looklike?
(09:28):
Let's just focus on the basicones and I'll go over them very
high level.
And what I might do, carl, isI'll send you a link you can
share with everyone.
I have a PDF that goes intothis in much more detail and,
especially if everyone's visual,they can kind of like follow
along with it.
Perfect, uh.
So first thing we need to knowis what is our nervous system?
(09:49):
So right now, what we'respeaking about is the system of
nerves that is autonomic, thatruns through your body and
communicates between the brainand the body.
So it's so.
It's a system of nerves thatruns from the brainstem.
It goes all the way back down,it runs to our organs.
(10:11):
It's the way that your body cantell if it's hungry.
It sends information up anddown, tells if it's hungry, it
can tell us if there's threataround, and its main job is to
do two things Number one keepyou safe, so keep you not dying.
Not even just keep you safe,just prevent you from dying.
And number two save energy,just in case you need it, in
(10:36):
case there's a threat later.
That is all it cares about.
Doesn't care if you'refulfilled, doesn't care if
you're happy, doesn't care ifyou're doing a good job at work.
Am I not dead?
Am I expending the least amountof energy in doing so?
So it's always communicatingand it's the foundational way
(10:58):
you experience life.
Every single thought, sensationand emotion, or even the way
that you kind of perceive andlike not even think about things
, but the way that they areshaped and you receive them, is
created by your nervous system.
Okay, and that's the reason whyone event can happen and six
(11:20):
people can look at it in sixdifferent ways, or even 12
different ways, because everyonecan look at it from at least
one or two perspectives.
And so when we influence andunderstand the nervous system,
we change the way that weexperience our entire life.
Now, the nervous system getsdysregulated when it perceives
that there is a threat to itsresources, its safety, its
(11:43):
identity, um, its level ofrespect, if, particularly in a
workplace, uh, we need to berespected, because if we're not
respected, people won't lead us,and if we people don't lead us
and there's a problem when wecan't save people from the
problem because they didn't leadus.
You know what I mean Entity,threat to our respect, resources
(12:08):
, money, it can even just likeget perceive, a threat to
something uncomfortable in thebody.
So if we go back to that, if wego back to like a not a company
man right, well, you, being nota company man, might create
inside of me.
It might actually remind me ofthat one time that I got really
(12:28):
excited about this is me beinghypothetical, but I got really
excited about somebody being inmy life and then they left and
that reminded me of the timethat my mom left, and now my
abandonment wound is triggeredat work.
I say there's just somethingnot right about them.
(12:50):
They're not a fit, they don't,they're not loyal, but really
it's just that they havemannerisms that remind me of
something that my ex did orsomething, but you can't see
that because it's so subtle.
And so, yeah, are you followingso far or do you have any
questions about that?
Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, so I think so, I think it's fascinating to.
I think the biggest takeaway, Ithink, in the nervous system
kind of research is, um, sooften we like we judge this
experience right, like it's like, oh, this person's you know
overreacting or you know, butbut the reality is the nervous
(13:29):
system, it's, it's it'shappening for a really, really
good reason.
It's happening because it's itsaves our species from perishing
, right, like it literally likekept you from dying and saved
energy.
Like that's what we needed backwhen we were, you know,
foraging and nomadic, you know,beings.
Yeah, now it doesn'tnecessarily work in the age of,
(13:51):
you know, digital technology andcorporate workplaces, so so
it's it's, you know, I thinkhonoring that and like being
open-minded to that, I think isreally really important, and
then we can, once we stopjudging it now, we can actually
start to analyze it and figureout how it works.
So, yeah, so, okay.
(14:12):
So I'm following you with and Ithink that, like the
subconscious, like reaction,because somebody, you know, like
the subconscious reaction,because somebody subconsciously
reminds you of a previouspartner or some level of trauma
that you incurred in your life,for whatever reason.
(14:34):
So take us through that.
When that's occurring, how dowe know that it's happening to
us.
Let's start there.
Like, like how do we recognizethat?
Oh, this might be, this mightbe my nervous system getting
dysregulated.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Like, like how do we start there?
Yeah, so this is where, for thevisual people, the PDF is going
to come in handy.
And what's going to happen isyou're going to notice that your
body and your mind start torespond in a couple of different
ways.
So we might have the fightresponse or the flight response,
which are what we call thesympathetic nervous system
(15:08):
activating.
That's when there's energyactivated in the body and your
body perceives the threat assomething that you can run away
from or fight, and so it usuallylooks like some level of
feeling.
It can be kind of like there'stense muscles.
(15:29):
You're fidgety, you kind ofjust want to like get on with
things and get moving.
You want to like get out ofthere, kind of like get it all
done.
You also feel really likeanxious or panicky or worried or
defensive, and I see this kindof coming out in two different
ways.
We can kind of take it out ontoother people, so like they have
(15:49):
to fix this thing, they have todo it quicker, they're not
enough, they're too much.
Or we can take it ontoourselves and we can be like oh
my God, I didn't do that, Ididn't do that quick enough, I
could have done that better.
Why is this so hard for me?
I'm so annoyed at myself.
I can't believe that I'm doingthis again.
I don't know I'm not doingenough.
And what usually happens is wespend a lot of time in this
(16:12):
activated space that can feelvery energized in the body, and
you might even see these peoplein the office.
They're like they're runningaround doing stuff, right, yeah,
yeah, totally Uh-huh.
And guys, yeah, carla's likerunning.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So, for those that can't see, I'm like, I'm like
mimicking a run right now.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And we almost, uh, glorify them because they're
really productive.
Probably or at least theyappear to be productive they're
probably the person in theoffice that drinks six coffees a
day and doesn't like to be calm.
It's really difficult to beslow and to be calm when we're
(16:51):
in this place, and so you mightnotice that that is a way that
you are in a lot of the day, orit even is just like around a
certain person.
You tense up a little bit, yourjaw gets a little bit tense,
you kind of squeeze your body alittle bit.
So that would be a sympatheticresponse and that would tell you
you're dysregulated.
Another one would be what wecall I call it the blue zone,
(17:15):
but technically it's calleddocile, vagal, and it's some
level of shutdown.
This is when your body thinksthat the threat, the person in
front of you or the situation isso big that the most effective
way is to just play dead.
It's so big and you're notstrong enough, so we play dead.
(17:37):
This is that employee thatdoesn't just, they just don't do
stuff.
You know they just.
And it's that employee, youknow those ones you've seen and
or a colleague, or maybe it'syou, and at the beginning, when
they started they had heaps ofreally good ideas and they would
um, they would make decisionsby themselves and they would uh,
they would make suggestions.
(17:58):
But they got shut down so manytimes that now they've just
stopped and if you're like tothem, oh yeah, but have you
suggested thing?
They're like there's no point,it's just not going to work.
That's that person and there'sjust low energy.
You feel heavy, you feel weak.
You can probably hear it alittle bit in my voice and then
(18:18):
you can probably feel it in yourbody.
You kind of just start feelinglike there's no point.
These people tend to be alittle bit more depressive or
lethargic.
It's really hard to get up inthe morning.
You're just tired and youbreathe slower.
You don't like to look atpeople, these people with these
(18:41):
tendencies.
I find them less in middle tosenior management, because it's
hard to do the things that needto be done from this place to
get you to that level.
So you might have them less,but it doesn't mean that it
isn't a tendency and that itwon't exist inside of you or
(19:03):
people around you absolutely so,it's.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So this is fascinating to me.
So because I think that like,naming, like, like actually
identifying these types ofthings is really important, so I
went through, I, I did somekind of some workshops on this a
number of months ago and Iactually, I actually I figured
out, I realized that throughmuch of my career I was actually
operating within thesympathetic nervous system.
I was just like highfunctioning fight or flight mode
(19:28):
where it's like very, veryfrantic, but, you know,
generally effective, um, youknow, and in certain scenarios,
like like, really effective yeahum, you know, especially like,
like you know, when you're youknow,
dealing with like, almost likean emergency level situation or
something like that.
But, um, but you're justflooding yourself with cortisol
(19:49):
and and it's like, it's like the, it's like just a recipe for
absolute burnout and it reallyit doesn't allow you to make
great decisions, right?
So, like it's, it's uh, itmight look good on the outside,
but you know, I think we allhave that coworker that runs
around and brags about like I'mon my 12th cup of coffee Look
how amazing I am.
It's actually like, oh, I needto help you.
(20:13):
Like you need help.
Like can I help you?
Like, take a breath, please,please.
And I can see it now.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
but that was me for a number of years right Totally.
Did you find that people?
So there's two things I want tosay about that.
I want to make sure we comeback to what makes work
fulfilling, because we need thatsympathetic response.
I'm sure that that wassatisfying for you on some level
for a really long time, untilit wasn't, and but did you find
(20:47):
that people almost respected youor you became like the?
Speaker 1 (20:50):
go-to guy to get things done in some way.
Yeah, like, like, I'll justtell an.
I'll use an example here.
So I used to be the guy thatthe minute I'd get an email, I'd
like respond like really,really like like a hair trigger
response, and so, and peoplewould like so.
Then I became Mr Reliable, mrDependable, like Kyle will email
you, you know, within I don'tknow 30 minutes without fail.
(21:15):
But what ended up happening isI just, you know, you just burn
out, you just kind of spinaround so, and that it actually
created like an overwhelming,like like I just got so much
work I couldn't get it all done,so it became, it became
detrimental, but but itabsolutely made a name for me as
like Mr Reliable, right, so itwas.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
There was some level of like, of positive ripple from
that and be reliable or respondin ways that are quite
necessary, especially in a lotof different places.
(22:06):
How do I have that level ofcapacity inside of my body
without going into a sympatheticresponse?
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Right, yeah, and what I found?
My personal experience, what Ifound is I have a pretty deep
reservoir for holding stress,but once I hit that, it's like
flame out, Like like it's justlike you know, I like completely
(22:36):
overwhelmed.
Um, and now you know, now I can, I can manage it more
effectively.
Um, but you know, if you sayyes to everything, you're saying
no to a lot of things thatmatter.
So, um, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Okay, Well let's talk about regulating, so we don't
leave everybody hanging.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Does that feel okay?
Yes, please.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Let's talk about that .
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah.
So I'm going to make it supersimple and for more specific
stuff, once again, pdf.
In the PDF I have like a listof things you can do that will
help you regulate based on yourzone or your tendency.
That don't require time orspace or privacy.
They're not woo-woo, they'revery simple.
It's like do this type of yoga,run your hands and wrists under
(23:19):
cold water, so everyone can goand look at that list.
But what we're going to rememberon a more foundational level is
that when you're sympathetic,you have energy in your body
that needs to be moved until youfind relaxation.
So it's like what's happeningis your body thinks you're
running from a bear, and if wewere all running from a bear,
(23:41):
what would happen is we wouldrun, run, run, run, run, run,
run.
Okay, no bear anymore.
Great, oh, take a big seat,deep, big, deep breath, and then
we would go and we would look ahuman in the eyes and be like,
far out, we did it, let's gohave some champagne.
(24:04):
And so we need to create that,and so I think, even like
knowing that even the ideathat's coming to me right now is
that you can help as somebodyin HR.
You can actually really helpthe team by celebrating at the
end of a sprint let's say you'redoing a sprint by celebrating
and actually doing somethingthat gets them in that rest
response and like fully bringsthem down and having like a good
day or like a three-day weekendto actually just like, oh okay,
(24:27):
we did that, we got it doneLike really resting and
educating on how important thatis, because that's where we
replenish the body and the brainwith the creativity that is
necessary, the body and thebrain with the creativity that
is necessary for your nextsprint.
Because the reason that webecome burnt out is because we
don't experience that completion.
(24:48):
We always run on cortisol, wedon't come back down, we don't
find the serotonin and theoxytocin and that connection and
relaxation that replenishes it.
So if you are, if you tend moreto that, it's just can you find
a way to move that energythrough the body?
It might be that you takewalking meetings you got to move
(25:12):
the energy.
It might be that you go to thegym before you go home you got
to move that energy.
But then, more importantly, canyou relax without depending on
a substance?
So a lot of the time we findour body craves that relaxation
and so we'll have a glass ofwine.
That's not great because yourbody doesn't actually find it.
(25:38):
It's like so can you just take afew deep breaths?
That's where it's like justtake three deep breaths.
Actually, can we do it rightnow?
We're going to do thesympathetic, the three-part sigh
.
If anyone knows Andrew Huberman, he's really into nervous
system stuff and these are thesighs that you know, like Navy
SEALs and everyone does.
So we're going to do them rightnow.
Are you ready?
Here we go.
(26:00):
Okay, so you're going to do.
You're going to inhale all theway up with your lips closed,
inhale through the nostril, thenyou're going to sip in a little
bit more and then you're goingto exhale yeah, and then you
want to do that two more times.
So one more time inhale, zip in, exhale.
(26:24):
There we go cool so that's whatwe, that's one way.
Um, if you tend more to thatshutdown, you're feeling really
lethargic, which will happenafter you've spent a lot of time
in cortisol.
You need to activate energy,which means you need everything
(26:45):
that is activating.
You need sun, you need citrus,you need to get up and move your
body.
You need to go for a dance, youneed to go to the gym.
You need fun and sun anythingthat is activating.
You need to get up, you need tolift some weights, you need to
do a breath work where you do alot of inhalations.
(27:07):
So, wim Hof, breathing is veryhelpful for that.
If you're guys into ice bathsand things like that, wim Hof,
breathing is really helpful, butyou need to get up and you need
to get out and you need tospecifically get energy into
your limbs.
I don't care what it is that youdo, but get energy into your
limbs and that reminds the body.
(27:29):
Oh, I felt like I needed toshut down, but it's actually
okay.
It's actually okay and thatcould just be wiggling your toes
while you're having.
If you're having like a reallydifficult conversation, you feel
yourself shutting down.
It might even just be kind oflike pressing on your thighs,
just to remind your body thatwe've got some energy there and
it's okay, and I've got this andwe're not.
(27:49):
We're not, everything's okay.
It could be as simple as thatand most people won't teach it
to you like this.
But that's how you regulate andthat's how you make it
accessible.
Won't teach it to you like this, but that's how you regulate
and that's how you make itaccessible.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Am I clear when I say these things?
Yes, yeah, and I I think Ithink what's really powerful
here is like you can do this atwork, right, like you don't have
to go, you don't have to go tolike a you know shamanic retreat
, and like you do anythingthat's like super crazy.
Like you can do breath worksitting in your cubicle.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Right, it's not, you know it's, it's absolutely
feasible.
And thinking about thesetechniques in that context, um,
I think is is is reallyinteresting.
Um, what if we see somebodyelse that's struggling with this
and and like I'm just thinkingas an hr professional, a lot of
times I, a lot of times I seelike somebody I'm, I'm with and
(28:49):
I can just tell like, oh, thatyou are dysregulated, you need
to, like, you need help.
How do you recommend that weactually help somebody who who
might be in one of thesedysregulated states and like how
can we, how can we like do thisin a way that you would
recommend that's not likeembarrassing or too awkward?
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Yeah Well, I think number one is like don't try to
convince them of anything.
Don't be that guy that's like,hey, I've got this really good
resource, until there's kind ofa switch in the moment, um in
the in the conversation, whereyou can recommend that.
But what you don't want to dois be the person that either
(29:29):
tries to convince them thateverything's okay.
Their body can't see it andwon't see it.
That's a waste of your energy.
Tries to recommend them to dosomething.
Their body is literally tryingnot to die and to not expend
energy.
Why do they care aboutlistening to the podcast?
They don't care, unless theykind of do and like there's some
(29:50):
renown again where theyactually might ask for help and
you can be like, oh, I didlisten to this podcast and you
can send it over.
But don't necessarily be thatperson that just like gives them
more resources because theirbody feels overwhelmed and is
unlikely to want to take on more.
What I always prefer torecommend is number one when
(30:11):
you're sitting with them, embodygroundedness.
What I specifically mean is beslow in your breathing.
What I specifically mean is beslow in your breathing, and
sometimes the way that I do thisis, I think, about sending my
breath to the back of my ribs onmy spine and breathing into the
(30:34):
back of my body, and when youcan embody that groundedness and
when you can embody thatgroundedness, you help them and
their body start to see thatit's safe to be present.
Now they can lock into aconversation with you more and
(30:57):
then you can do what I callfinding the emotion underneath
the dysregulation.
There's a reason that thatperson is running around because
a lot of the time, if not allthe time, as humans we actually
become dysregulated because weare avoiding feeling an emotion
(31:18):
in our body.
We are avoiding feeling anemotion in our body.
The guy that's drinking all thecoffee might be afraid that
they're going to fail, they'renot going to do a good enough
job, and that would be reallyembarrassing.
And then what would they do forthem and their kids?
Or the woman who just feelslike she can't do it anymore and
(31:38):
she's made a millionrecommendations and nobody's
listening is avoiding feelingthat feeling of discouragement
or disappointment.
And so I recommend usually justfinding that emotion and just
almost like reflecting it backand like, oh, it sounds like
you're kind of disappointed, notbecoming a therapist, but just
seeing that there's an emotion,a human underneath.
(32:01):
It Sounds like there's a lotgoing on at home, sounds like
you're holding a lot of, doesn'tit Like it's a pretty stressful
period of time, like thatsounds pretty intense and
validating it, or it sounds likethat's really important to you
and just seeing how, seeing ifyou can just find that emotion
underneath and then get on thesame page with them.
(32:24):
I hope that it's like findingtheir motivation.
Why are they here?
What is important for them intheir life?
What are their goals right now?
Are their goals even related towork?
They may not be Like findingthat human underneath and then,
when you've got that, that isthe place where now they feel
(32:45):
safe and seen enough that theycould, they could actually
receive your advice, and so thatis the place where you'd be
like you know, I did see thisone resource.
I have heard about this onething and I reckon it might help
you.
What do you reckon that placeis where they're going to
receive you.
You're smiling.
What are you thinking?
Yeah, yeah're going to receiveyou.
You're smiling.
What are you thinking?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
yeah, yeah, no, I mean, I think this is, you know,
it's so much of this is aboutlike it's.
It's getting through the like,like getting to the heart of of
who you're actually talking to,right and and and embodying what
I think hr should be, which isan actual resource and somebody
(33:23):
who is emotionally intelligentenough to observe when somebody
is dysregulated and help themfeel safe.
And for me, that's really theroot of the work as it relates
to how we help others, of thework as it relates to how we
help others.
But, as we've been talking here, this all starts with yourself,
(33:45):
right?
You have to be able to observethis in yourself and then
reflect that and then you canstart to help others.
So, with that being said and Isaid this before I hit record, I
know we're just going to getlike warmed up and want to
continue the conversation.
I want to be mindful of yourtime, and so we are towards the
(34:07):
end of our time together, butI'm fascinated to hear your
responses to the Rebel HR flashround.
Are you ready?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
All right.
Question number one where do weneed to rebel?
Speaker 2 (34:29):
to rebel.
We need to rebel in not youarticulated it really well
earlier, so I'm trying to findthem back.
We need to rebel in that weneed to prioritize enough the
human inside of every singleperson in the workplace over the
illusion of productivity andsuccess and achievement, because
humans are more creative.
Humans are more innovative, buthumans, when they're focused,
(34:50):
they're actually more productivethan a dysregulated human.
It doesn't appear that way atfirst, but it's true.
So we need to rebel againstthis idea that being the guy
that's reliable and getseverything done and runs around
doing it all is the best way tobe.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I love it.
I love it.
Question number two who shouldwe be listening to?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Our bodies, but the real sensation underneath our
bodies.
We need to learn it.
You need to learn to understandwhat is real intuition and
instinct and your body'sintelligence, not just
dysregulation or fear or habit.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I love it.
Yeah, and I think this is oneyou know as someone as a
self-described kind of likeautonomic fight or flight junkie
for most of my career.
You get really good atdisconnecting yeah Right, like
that's, because it's a copingmechanism.
Because then you get reallygood at disconnecting yeah Right
, like you, that's because it'sa coping mechanism, because then
you can just get more stuffdone.
Um, that doesn't mean you'renecessarily effective, it just
(35:50):
makes you feel better.
So I love that you have thatreminder to connect and listen
and truly listen.
Yeah, all right.
Last question here.
So we already talked about thePDF.
I'll make sure we get a link ofthat to the show notes.
How can our listeners learnmore and connect with you?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
Yeah, thank you.
Sustainable Success is mypodcast.
It's Sustainable Success.
My name is Sheridan Ruth.
You can also find me just atSheridanRuthcom LinkedIn,
instagram, but probably that PDFwill orient you to all the
right places and Carl will takecare of you.
For that, thank you.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Absolutely, sheridan.
This has been an absolutelywonderful conversation.
I just really can't thank youenough for the work that you're
doing and I just appreciate thedifference that you're making in
the workplace.
Thank you for spending sometime with us today, and you're
going to help a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast.
Big thank you to our guests.
Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR Podcast, twitter at Rebel HR
Guy, or see our website atrebelhumanresourcescom.
The views and opinionsexpressed by Rebel HR podcast
are those of the authors and donot necessarily reflect the
official policy or position ofany of the organizations that we
(37:05):
represent.
No animals were harmed duringthe filming of this podcast.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Baby.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com