You Want a Subscription With That? - A conversation about the current landscape in sports media

[Disclaimer: The opinions in this episode are of my own accord and DO NOT reflect opinions of any respective organization or institution.]

Has anyone noticed how the landscape of sports media has changed? It went from a casual newspaper/magazine article to a monthly/yearly contract. I spoke with Tyler Hill, a multi-media reporter at WCIA in Champaign, Illinois about the landscape of sports media and how it has changed.

Hope you enjoy the episode!

Below is Tyler's TikTok and LinkedIn if you'd like to connect with him!

@thehillsports

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tylerchill941/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi everyone, my name is Nathan Merkel.
Welcome to the Ivory Tower podcast where we talk a little
bit about sport and society. What sport looks like within the
global context, what it looks like within the American
context, what we think about sport, how we experience sport,
why? How do we consume sport.
I really hope you enjoy the following episode and I hope you

(00:22):
will continue to listen down theroad.
Thanks. OK everyone, thank you for
joining me for another episode of Rebuilding the Ivory Tower
podcast. This Perspectives of Sport and
Society. I'm really excited about this
episode. We're going to dive deep into

(00:44):
media and sport and what that looks like, how media sort of
influences us or how we also influence media.
I'm joined by Tyler Hill, who isa professional in the media
industry right now in Champaign.Yeah, so my name is Tyler again.
I'm from Sarasota, FL, originally about an hour South
of Tampa, if you guys know wherethat is, and moved up here in

(01:06):
August to take a job. I'm a multimedia journalist at
WCIA, which is a CBS affiliate news station in the Champaign
area. So we covered just a bunch of
central Illinois. I think I got to throw in here
that all my opinions are not of the station, you know, just for
just for coverage. Not that I'm going to say
anything wild, but they always are are pretty stickler about

(01:27):
that. But came up here and got in the
media, like growing up, just loved watching college game day
and ESPN shows in the morning before school and listening to
sports radio on the way to school, like all this different
stuff. And so now getting into the
media, you get to see some of that behind the scenes.
And it's it's really interestinghow it influences your
perspective. Yeah, I I totally agree.
I think it it has subtly or subconsciously influenced

(01:50):
everyone. I'm not sure if I would have
known what growing up, how much it did influence me until I got
older. And I, and you sort of look back
and you think, wow, how does themedia shape the way that I see
sport or see specific athletes or consume a specific sport?
And the specific highlights thatare shown show you exactly what
they want you to see. And it's sort of interesting.

(02:12):
So I'm, I'm curious if you can sort of paint us a picture of
what your relationship with media is and you know, where you
started, why, why you decided toreally get into it and sort of
paint us a, a background of, of that, that picture for us.
Yeah, So gotten to Liberty University, which is a school in
Lynchburg, VA and my senior yearof high school, as I was just
thinking about what I wanted to do in terms of major, I had gone

(02:34):
back and forth in terms of engineering and, you know, a
couple of different things. But I think when I just found
out that engineering you're justgoing to sit at a desk for 9:00
to 5:00, I was like, OK, that's not exactly what I want to do.
And I love sports. I really wanted to be in sports
for my career, but I was not a Division One football player.
And so to stay in it was like, OK, I can, I can be in media and

(02:57):
be in sports media and stay connected to the game, talk
about it, analyze it, break it down in that way.
So from there it was, Hey, I'm listening to a ton of sports
podcasts and really just podcasts in general as I'm
driving right now for my job, I might drive an hour to get out
to a town and do a story. And it's like, well, I, what am

(03:17):
I going to listen to in the car?It's probably going to be a
podcast. And so with that, also a ton of
live sports as well. I'm big college football fan,
NFL catch a little bit of NBA and hockey as well.
But you know, live sports, I think is the driver and we'll
talk about it. It drives money, but people just
want to watch sports and it's a great way to hang out with
people and to to actually get into the passion that I I really

(03:40):
enjoy. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
I think, I think consuming sportis such a community, community
thriving or fueled environment where personally I would argue
that it's hard. It's hard for me to sort of
become psychologically motivatedor loyal to watching a sport by
myself. If I'm at home watching it, I
feel like I always get distracted or I watch my phone

(04:02):
or something. But I'm, but I'm, if I'm with
friends or some sort of community, like you're saying
that sort of media consumption in the, in the sense of a
community is very powerful. And I'm, I'm curious, I wanted
to go back to your experience atliberty and like, did you, did
you graduate with a journalism degree or was it management or
communication or media? I'm I'm curious what that was.

(04:25):
Right. So my undergrad was I majored in
sport management, PR and communications, and I minored in
digital media. And so when you kind of smash
those two together, that's whereI just kind of, I call it sports
broadcasting. It's the degree that I came out
with because I got the broadcasting side, got the
sports side, and that's really ideally what I want to go into

(04:45):
right now. I'm in general news, this is my
first job out of college. Way to get a foot in the door
but want to move over into that sports side eventually.
Yeah, it's cool. Do you sort of think about now
that you're in media, do you sort of consume sport
differently? Do you think you.
Oh, for sure. Yeah, you see a game or a
highlight, you're like, wow. Like I remember you telling me

(05:07):
at one point you literally see ahighlight.
Like wow, that's a great shot, but not the shot of the player,
the shot of the camera. Right, the camera shot and so
that's where I did some play by play in college.
So even if I'm just watching live sports, I can go man, that
was a great call. Like I I love how they break
that down. Oh, they gave it.
They paused and didn't say anything.

(05:28):
So the crowd pop hits there. There's stuff in that
background. And then now with me more on the
news side and you're building out packages and things like
that. So think what you see on
SportsCenter when they're, you know, doing a feature story on
the athlete or or whoever it maybe.
I just, I love seeing the way that they do interviews, how
they set up their shots. They got multiple cameras in in

(05:49):
one interview are panning from hey, cameras on the left.
Oh, now it's behind. And so I have the shot where
it's going through my back. And so you see my person I'm
interviewing in the foreground. I'm not a focus.
It's it's just cool, creative stuff like that.
It it's tough. And then also on the back end,
it's like, Oh, I really, I don'tknow why they said that.
Or in podcasts especially, it's going, oh man, they're staying a

(06:12):
long time on this topic. I think they're kind of losing
it and don't really know where they're going or, and stuff like
that. So there, there's both where I
see some really cool stuff and it's helpful then for me to take
that into my job. And then there's, I think
sometimes where maybe I wish I wasn't analyzing every little
thing because I'm nitpicking broadcasts and, you know, it
takes me out of it a little bit.But overall, it's, it's

(06:34):
definitely changed the way that I, I look at it and how I
analyze it. That's really cool.
When you said the way that broadcasters say specific
things. I just quickly pulled up a a
page. I just put an iconic sport
broadcasting phrases and the onethat one that I remember, I
didn't obviously didn't live through because it was very old,
but the 1980 Winter Olympics where the US men's hockey team

(06:54):
beat the Soviet Union. Al Michaels famously says, do
you believe in miracles? And and you know, Vince Scully
is very famous for that. I know Joe Buck has had some
really cool instances as well. And I think what I've started to
notice too, that you're, that you're specifying is when these
sort of crazy occurrences happen, each broadcaster has
that sort of like iconic identity phrase, yes, you know,

(07:18):
which is really club just now started to realize it that they
all have that niche identity, some sort of phrase or
connection that is unique to them.
And it's really interesting thatyou brought that up too, because
I, I was thinking about all of that stuff.
Yeah, and it's a it's a style, it's a voice.
It it's stuff where you could honestly, I can have my eyes
closed on my couch. And if someone pulls up on March

(07:40):
Madness game with Jim Nance, it's like, oh, I instantly know
that's Jim Nance or the call. His famous one that I can
remember is Virginia versus Furman.
When Virginia throws the ball away and Furman hits a three
wins the game. He has the big call.
Let's the crowd pop happen like I can.
I can close my eyes and see thatjust because of how iconic, like

(08:01):
you said, his phrases is his style, just his voice, the the
cadence he uses, it's all all great.
As a broadcaster, you really have to find that style so that
people can associate that with you.
That's your brand. When you're talking about
podcast, TV is your look, but it's also your voice that people
are listening to you. Yeah, when you, it's really
interesting when you say that there's one specific, my

(08:23):
personal opinion, one specific voice that stands out to me,
it's Matt Veskarsian with the MLB and he did MLB The Show
podcasting and and episodes of that like.
So I really got loyal to his specific voice and I loved his
voice. Not necessarily the style, but
I'm curious, like what you think, does that?

(08:43):
Does the sound of someone's voice play more of a role than
the things they say? Or is it more structure?
Or does it rely heavily on audioand sort of the beauty of the
voice itself? I think it's both because you do
need to still out be giving goodinformation and and knowing what
you're talking about. I think naturally then helps
your voice. But I was talking to a guy who

(09:06):
does color commentary for the Pacers games and he had to go to
a voice coach because of some different things that the people
are like, Hey, we we want to hire you.
You just got to kind of, I guess, scrape out these rough
edges and make it more uniform and something that people can
can listen to. And so with that, I think it's

(09:27):
both and they play off each other because when you're
confident in your voice, you gotmore of that prep time and the
prep time makes you confident inwhat you're saying.
No one wants to hear a broadcastabout you.
I think that was him who shot it, right?
You want a guy who's on it. And so having that, that level
of confidence, what you're saying and confidence in how
you're saying it is huge. Yeah, it's really interesting.

(09:48):
I'm, I'm curious we're, we're snowballing here, but I'm
curious what you think of your relationship or your, your
viewpoint and perspective of proathletes becoming commentators
that, you know, you got Tony Romo, Tom Brady, you know,
currently, I know Tony Romo's sort of a hot take.
Some people may not like his style, but I personally like it
because it's kind of quirky. But I'm curious like, you know,

(10:08):
someone that's going through an education to, to work in
broadcasting. Like do you feel like there's a
a favored identity, you know, athletes get that sort of option
first, you know? Oh, sure.
I mean, I, I, I think I actually, funnily enough, I did
research on this. I had to do a 25 page thesis for
the honors college at liberty inmy undergrad.

(10:30):
And the thing that I looked at is how can you build credibility
as a broadcaster without playingthe sport that you're talking
about at a high level? Because you can just look on
Twitter and anytime somebody whowasn't a division 1NFL NBA
player says something about the game, it's oh, who are you?
Like you never played. You're a bench warmer, you're a

(10:52):
manager, like whatever. Even when I've been posting
stuff randomly, if it's AII got one the other day, I I think
Tennessee is not going to be as good as their expectations are
this college football season andsomebody goes team manager
opinion. And so it's like you are always
fighting and not having that piece of your credibility, but
there's ways you can get around that.
So athletes don't though, because they come in and they

(11:13):
go, hey, I played ten years in the NFL and it's just boom.
People are like, oh, well, I'm going to I'm going to listen to
you about football. Even if maybe they're not as
locked into some of the games, the evolution of the sport and
where it's going, if they're maybe just kind of hot take
artists right there. But you do you can get your foot

(11:34):
in the door way easier as a guy who is recognizable.
People watched you play and, andknow who you are already instead
of, you know, who knows who I amright now?
If I if I got on ESPN, they would put on my credentials and
people be like, what the heck. And so I have that extra step in
trying to build that, I guess, credibility with the audience.

(11:55):
Yeah, it's interesting. I'm I'm curious.
I was thinking in my head, the rhetoric in my mind, the
rhetoric that famous athletes use is very sort of this related
to what this podcast is about. It's sort of that ivory tower in
a sense where athletes will comeon and we'll like super digest,
very high level digest plays. And they're like the scheme of

(12:18):
this XY play, whatever, but in like with the average viewer.
And if I tuned into the game andthey were telling me all these
schemes and very in depth analysis of the play, I'm like,
I'm lost. I don't know what's happening.
And I think that's where I wouldmore lean towards individuals
that majored in how to just holistically talk about sport

(12:40):
rather than the strategy, which I do love.
But I think some athletes approach it as a coach and
they're trying to analyze the play and talk about all these
different schemes, and I feel like they're sort of losing the
sight and aspect of what sport or what that broadcast is
supposed to be about. Yeah, and I think that's where
there's some that are very good at doing it.

(13:01):
Greg Olsen is amazing at taking these very complicated schemes
in. The NFLII picked up a book.
It's the Minnesota Vikings playbook and I'm reading through
it right now. It is crazy.
The intricacy and detail that goes into just offensive plays,
much less the game plan and thenhow you execute it.
It's it's so in depth. But he in 15 seconds can go so

(13:22):
boom, boom, boom, That's what itis.
And break it down in a way whereyou and I know what they're
talking about. I think both the banned Gundies
and basketballs and other are two other guys that I think do a
really good job of that on the fly going, Hey, This is why they
did that screen to get into thatmatch up.
And they really wanted, you know, Tatum versus Brunson or
whatever it is and and do it in a way where it's layman's terms
because you can't just be thrownout.

(13:44):
All these coach speak this scheme language, like you said,
that no one knows. It turns people off.
It's a lot easier for people just to be like Oh he sucks or
Oh he's good because you don't really need any scheme knowledge
for that. Yeah, I agree.
It's really interesting. And I'm I'm curious what you
thought of is when we think of where sport media or sport
broadcasting came from and whereit's at now.

(14:04):
I'm curious what you think, likehow media sort of evolutionized
through, through the, through history and through time and how
it started from, you know, like one guy on a radio like Vin
Scully and, you know, long ago talking about the Dodgers.
And, and you know, a newspaper article comes out and everybody,
the whole town's revering in, in, in the, the glory of, of the

(14:26):
team. And now all of a sudden it's
like short TikTok vids and like very small 5 second clips.
And I'm just curious what your thought or opinion is of that.
Yeah, podcast and social media are two of the biggest formats
that have revolutionized sports media because anyone can do what
we're doing right now. Now you have to pay for a mic,
you have to pay for software, whatever.

(14:47):
There, there is a little barrierto entry, but anybody can do it.
And so I think this is where fans have gotten in.
It used to be, and still is, when you're on a certain of
those big programs, ESPN, Fox, whatever, but you were not a
fan. You had to be an objective
journalist. Now there are podcast dedicated

(15:08):
to being fans of a team. There are accounts dedicated to
being fans of a team. And so that bias is built in.
Everybody knows it and understands it and it's OK now.
So I think that's one way that Isee media and sport, the
evolution of that coming down the pipe.
I think also just you were talking about format a little
bit. Like podcasts I think are the

(15:30):
best way that I can put it because when I was growing up,
when I was 10/12/13, I would listen to sports radio, but I
would get frustrated if the guysstarted talking about hockey.
I at that point I was not a big hockey fan.
And so it's like, I don't reallywant to listen to this.
And then you had ads and different things that I don't, I
don't want to listen to. Now with podcasts, it's

(15:52):
completely catered. I follow all the shows I want.
I can select which ones out of those shows that I want to
download, put them in whatever order I want and skip through
all the ads. And so it's completely catered
to what I want at every stage oflistening to that podcast.
So I think that's kind of the other way that it's gone now is,
hey, there's so many of those out there, you can find what you

(16:15):
want. So why would I tune into
something where it's a 5050 shotof, hey, are they going to be
talking about the Florida Gatorsor are they going to be talking
about the Tampa Bay Lightning, who I might not want to listen
to right now? Yeah, I agree.
It's really interesting what we're we're hitting on.
There's a book that came out in 2019 that focuses on sport fans
and the psychology of sport fansby doctor, Doctor Juan, who's

(16:36):
out of Murray State University, who's a very famous sports
psychologist within academia. He he presents sort of two, two
different types of consumption that individuals or or fans
consume sport. It's direct and indirect.
And direct is obviously, you know, you're in the stadium, you
know, cheering on, but indirect is through media and through

(16:57):
some sort of media consumption. I would argue a lot of
individuals are favoring that indirect consumption aspect of
media now and aspect of sport and and fandom and just showing
support. I've got a a really interesting
revenue detail pulled up becauseI remember Sport Illustrated
used to be very popular in the past and it says in 2015 their

(17:23):
so 10 years ago their revenue was 100 million in print ads,
but by 2017 it dropped drastically to 57.4 million.
So I think this sort of shows within those two years, but now
going further, I think it's justgoing to keep decreasing.
And and I think hot take my personal opinion, I think

(17:43):
newspapers are becoming obsolete.
Radio radio like like daytime radio shows and sport radio
shows are becoming obsolete and they're shifting from newspaper
to podcast, from radio show to podcasts or things of that
nature. So it's really, really
interesting to see. I'm, I'm curious, do you think
print media is going to exist oris it going to go, is it going

(18:07):
to disappear within the next 10 years?
Yeah, I, I hope it doesn't because growing up we always got
Sports Illustrated. We had, you know, that once a
week issue was sent out, everything except for the
swimsuit issue. We would get it and I would
love, I would sit down immediately when we got it and I
would read it, the articles. I wanted to get through
everything and it was something I enjoyed growing up.

(18:28):
But it's just not immediate, right?
And that's what you're competingagainst is the person on Twitter
who can just boom, this is what happened.
The person who can post the interview, they just did like
that. And so that's honestly right now
for for us and WCIA, that's whatwe're doing is we have to be
really good at the digital stuffbecause we have the long form

(18:52):
content and that is super valuable in news, right is where
I go out, I check all the sourcing, I make sure everything
is buttoned up and I have this package that you can watch in
the six O clock news. That's important.
But what's also important is getting that information out as
quick as possible so that peoplesee it with us first.
And I think that's just the gameyou're playing.

(19:12):
And with a Sports Illustrated magazine, they're not first.
And so they they have to lean more into digital.
But the reason I hope it doesn'tdie is because those long form
pieces are unique in a lot of ways, right where the reporter
spends 2-3 days with ex athlete like pick whoever, LeBron James,

(19:33):
just the first one that comes tomind, say he's doing a story on
hey, how was your first season with Bronny?
And he goes in depth 2-3 days, spends time with them, multiple
interviews, sees their interactions of practice a game.
That is not something that you can just boom, put on Twitter,
right? That takes a lot of time to
assemble. But it's also really valuable

(19:54):
and something that I would be super interested in.
So there's a balance. And I don't know exactly how you
hit that, because while it is valuable.
It seems like not a lot of people are willing to wait for
it. And so even if I think it's
valuable, if everyone else disagrees and doesn't want to
pay for it, you can't have business.
So we'll, I guess that would be Long story short, is it?

(20:17):
I think it's easy to say, hey, this part is dying, but I think
it maybe would be better to go, hey, how can we actually keep
this going? I agree.
That's the sort of, I guess, doomsday opinion I've got with
Sports Illustrated and, and newspapers.
And because I would like, I would love to see it come make a

(20:37):
comeback. But I'm not sure if you've heard
of this, but I just found this when I was going through the
revenue things of Sports Illustrated.
But in 2013, Sport Illustrated was found using AI to create
their articles and things of that nature.
Like they literally created random AI generated reporters
and created AI generated articles that were totally fake

(21:02):
and they got caught out. And now this is in 2023.
So I'm curious like do you your relationship with AI like with
this AI reservants like what your your thoughts on that?
It's not good that that was a huge scandal.
They laid a bunch of people off as well at that point too.
And so that was not a great look, I think for Sports
Illustrated. But to have humans, right, it is

(21:25):
valuable. You have that human experience.
You're you're communicating withan actual person for the
interview, for the breakdown of the sport.
And that's something that I justdon't think you can encapsulate
an AI and you can easily say, Hey, it's going to aggregate it
better or it's going to get out quicker.
I I just think you're going to miss the human element in ways

(21:46):
where if you're breaking down anExcel spreadsheet for investment
banking AI, that's fine. It's, it's all just numbers.
You're just boom, boom, boom, inputting them.
But for something like sport media where there is so much fan
connection and there's so much connection between people we
talked about literally in the first question, right?
A big driver of sport is the stereotypical, hey, I'm going

(22:07):
over to my buddy's house to watch a game, or we're going and
meeting at a bar to watch a game.
That makes it unique to me whereyou still need that human
element. Yeah, Yeah, I agree.
I would, I would agree with you.I think you definitely need some
sort of human element and comingfrom, I know we're coming from
sort of two different backgrounds, but you like we are

(22:27):
in a sense, writers or consumersof sport and I write research
and you write news stories and you, you gather news stories.
And so there's a lot of times where I'm tempted to look at AI
or think of AI for research. But like, I personally have a, a
very drastic opinion on AII don't like AI just because I
think that it takes away, like you're saying, it takes away

(22:49):
the, the nature or the symbioticrelationship between human and
human. And I think once you, once you
flirt with that AI generated, you know, news stories, things
of that nature, it starts to deteriorate the trust between
human and human. And now when you go on some of
these stories, you, you sort of question yourself like, oh, was

(23:10):
this written by an actual human or is it fake?
I, I, I don't know, you can't really tell.
And so I try to avoid AI like the plague.
And even though it makes my job harder when writing, when
writing academic research, but Itry to avoid it at all costs
just because like you said, I highly value the relationship of
human to human. And I think, I think even though

(23:33):
the importance of AI and the emergence of AI with within
media and broadcasting and things of that nature, I think
that the symbolic relationship between human and human needs to
be embraced and needs to be sortof captured in order to save
that beautiful connection between human to human.
And it's it's really interestingwhere technology is going and

(23:55):
how it's affecting the way that we think of writing stories or
the way we think of seeing mediaand things of that nature.
Yeah, because there's some helpful things that AI does for
sure. Like I use a Riverside podcast
service where you record whatever and then at the end it
has a feature where you can get AI generated clips.
And so you can say, Hey, I want the clip to be between a minute

(24:17):
and a minute and a half. I want it to focus on this
speaker and I want it to be in this format where I'm full
screen and Nathan's in the bottom.
OK, boom. And then cranks them out.
That saves me a ton of time. But then you do I personally go
back and make sure it catches everything.
The thoughts are coherent. It's not cutting me off.
It's a weird spot, right? And so I think that's an example
of hey, in media that is a useful AI tool, but don't don't

(24:41):
make the entire podcast with AI.Yeah, yeah, I agree.
I think there's a slippery slopewith how this sort of evolution
of media. It went from, you know, one guy
with a, with a cigarette in his hand and a beer with a, with a
beer writing a news story or something like in the in the
locker room with the team or something like that.
Or on the radio to now it's sortof you're questioning if it's

(25:04):
even a human writing the story with sport, the sport
Illustrated scandal. And like, it's just sort of
crazy how media has evolutionized over time and it's
sort of scary that I what we'll get through or touch on later in
the podcast of what, what we think it's going to be like down
the road. But when you think, when you
think back, is there dude, is there any sort of like milestone

(25:25):
that you think happened that shifted media from maybe print
to where we're at or from print to radio or radio to now?
Or I'm curious if you if you think there's anything specific
there. I think the first event that
came to my mind was the pandemic, and that blew up

(25:46):
TikTok a ton. And a whole genre of stuff
that's come out now is just TikTok edits.
So Tyrese Halliburton hits a game winner and then boom, 15
minutes later there's a full Tyrese Halliburton edit with
music and transitions and whatever.
And when we talk about the evolution of media, that is one

(26:07):
way that allows people to be connected to the game or be
connected to the NBA without watching the actual game.
So just for me as an example, right now, I I've only watched
one NBA playoff game just because of my work schedule.
And like, I haven't really been able to catch any of them, but
I've been able to listen to podcasts on them.

(26:27):
I've been able to listen to or Iwatch highlight tapes from the
game and then get analysis on Twitter.
And so with all of that, I can feel like, hey, I know what's
going on in the NBA playoffs, even though I have not watched
the NBA playoffs because boom, 1-2 minute clips go viral and I
see them and that keeps me connected, which is a way that

(26:50):
we just didn't have. And I think before the pandemic,
we had a little bit like obviously Twitter was a thing.
There were highlight tapes before that.
But with the pandemic and how much that blew up all of that
social media, it just it was a rocket ship for for that type of
consuming sport. Yeah, yeah, I agree.
I think it was, I think it unfortunately what what we went

(27:11):
through was, was terrible, yes. But there's a lot of things that
came from it. And I think one of the things
that you're hitting on is, is absolutely correct that that it
sort of transformed the way I think humans in general consume
media. And I think media drastically
shifted and the way that it shifted now from which we'll get
through, we'll we'll touch on a bit more in a bit, But how cable

(27:33):
television has now switching to streaming and it's not the same
as it used to be. People are ditching stream or
ditching cable services. And it's sort of really
interesting to see. And that sort of puts us at a
really cool, a really nice halftime spot right here.
So we'll go ahead and take a short little break and then come
back with some some more interesting topics.
So we'll be right back. OK, everyone, welcome back.

(28:13):
I hope you enjoyed the first section of this episode where we
talked about sport and media, Tyler's specific experience with
media, how it sort of shaped theway he consumed sports,
experience sports, the way we look at sport in a different
light. And we also talked about the
evolution of media, sort of how newspapers started radio and it

(28:34):
transitioned to a lot of different aspects of media
consumption. And I'd love to sort of
transition into the current format of sport.
We hit on a little bit in the previous section, but I'd love
to get more in depth with it. And then we'll sort of touch on
the pros and cons and then future projections of where we
think media is going to go. So As for the, the current
format, we, we, we definitely touched on how previous media

(28:58):
has shifted from these long stories to now these highlight
reels. Do you think there's a specific
reason for that? I know we hinted on the
pandemic. Do you think it's because our
attention span has has decreaseddrastically or is there anything
media related that you think connects to that?
Or is it more so just because ofmaybe the pandemic?

(29:19):
You know, it, it shifted the waywe now consume media through
TikTok and TikTok is all 10 second videos.
And so maybe the sport industry and sport media industry was
like, oh, let's take advantage of that and throw in a bunch of
10 second sport videos. I'm just curious what your
thoughts are and what your opinions are on that.
Yeah, the attention spans of people are shortening.
That is something that you cannot dispute.

(29:40):
There is so much research on howthat has trended in the past
five, 1015 go back, however longattention spans have been
dropping. And so with that media people,
these massive media companies are not dumb.
They want to make a lot of money.
And so they're seeing, hey, these one to two-minute clips
from First Take or from Speak For Yourself or whichever pick

(30:05):
your talk show you want to talk about, those go viral.
Those bring in eyeballs. And same thing with the
highlight tapes from TikTok. Anything that is in that one to
two-minute clip range is golden.And it is a lot easier to
consume those type of videos back-to-back to back-to-back

(30:27):
than it is to sit down and watcha 2 1/2 hour basketball game.
So while I still I sit down, my Saturdays are quad box, I'm
watching four games at once, college football or two games on
Sundays, NFL. Some people, and especially I
would say in our generation and younger, just aren't like that

(30:47):
and and don't want to do that. And even I think I can find
myself sometimes. Hey, you know, it's a commercial
break and I'm on Twitter or, youknow, you're bouncing back and
forth between a bunch of different stuff because hey,
that, that dopamine hits gone. So that is where I'm seeing it
trend. That's that's clearly what
networks are seeing as well, because that's what they're

(31:08):
producing and it's putting up numbers and they're signing
these massive contracts. And so it clearly is working, is
clearly what people are wanting.Yeah, it's great.
When you speak of those massive contracts I've got, I've got a
article pulled up by the Sport Business Journal right now that
lists from 2024 the US media rights and the payments that

(31:30):
U.S. media and sports in North America, the total number of
revenue or media rights deals almost hit $30 billion.
It is 29.54 billion in 2024 across broadcasting, cable and
streaming services. And you know what's really
interesting is ESPN signed a Meteorites deal with the NCAA

(31:52):
for eight years for $920 million.
Then one that I have not really ever been interested in just for
my personal perspective was is the WWE.
They signed a 10 year deal with Netflix for five for $5 billion.
The NBA signed a deal with ESPNNBC and Amazon sort of split

(32:16):
up, but it's 11 year deal for 77billion.
And one that we that we thought was really interesting before we
started recording was a a leaguecalled Unrivalled with TNT.
It's a women's three on three basketball league that launches
in January. It's a guaranteed 3 year deal
through Warner Brothers and it's$100 million in Meteorites.

(32:39):
And I until today, I've honestlynever heard of this three, this
women's 3 basketball league, butthey're still signing a
meteorites deal worth 100 million.
And so it's sort of media and media rights deals.
I feel like these national mediacorporations are gatekeeping the
access to sport. And are you seeing this shift

(33:01):
from cable to stream to to whatever to different sort of
platforms? Well, live sports is the one
thing that really hasn't shiftedto streaming yet.
Whereas you think about any showthat normally would have been,
hey appointment television, 7:00PM prime time, CBSABCNBC, that

(33:23):
is waning. It's not gone completely.
There are still a ton of people that watch it, don't get me
wrong, but that is waning and dropping more than live sports
because of streaming. You can watch it's similar to
podcasts. You at any point could you open
Netflix show, you can not have to deal with ads.
You can switch between shows if you want to.
You're 10 minutes into one. I don't really like this.

(33:43):
I'm going to switch to another one.
Something you can't do with cable.
So with that, it has led to livesports really being the one
sticky part of cable TV that is still getting a ton of
viewership. And so that's why when you look
at the NBA deal specifically, the NBA ratings overall have
decreased. They're just not decreasing as

(34:04):
much as the rest of live television.
So they are still, they're actually more valuable when you
think about it because the rate is higher, it's not dropping
nearly as much as some of those other things.
So that's where it is. It is so valuable for these
networks because advertisers want to be on there.
They will pay so much money. And so they're going to pay

(34:25):
those leagues a lot of money to have that rights and have have
those things on their channel. Yeah, it's interesting.
And you're saying that because Iwas, I was looking a little bit
further into the, the way that Netflix and streaming platforms
are trying to penetrate that sort of traditional platform of
daytime TV and live sports. I found that Netflix just

(34:48):
acquired, and I don't know if they just, but they acquired the
meteor rights for the NFL Christmas Day game in 2027.
And then they also acquired the meteor rights for the 2031
Women's World Cup. And so that's sort of
interesting. Do you think more streaming
platforms are trying to penetrate this sort of?

(35:09):
They're trying so hard with college football.
When the Big 12 had their deal up, Netflix, Apple TVA bunch of
different streaming services, Amazon Prime were all bidding to
try and get in. They ultimately did not, but
they recognize how valuable livesports is.
The PAC 12 before it died, RIP. One of the better deals they had

(35:29):
was Apple TV, but they were scared that we would get maybe
more money than we would with a traditional network.
But are people going to watch our teams?
Like, are people going to get just an Apple TV subscription to
watch Oregon play Washington? So that's the balance that
people are trying to hit. Streaming services are trying to
break in really hard. You can pretty much name a sport

(35:49):
and they're trying to they do a little bit like you said,
Netflix has the Christmas Day games, Peacock for NBC.
They have select college football games from Big 10,
Notre Dame, things like that. They just haven't fully gotten
there. And I'm I'm skeptical if they
ever will because again, you arejust killing viewership for the
teams you put on there. Even if it is a Notre Dame,

(36:12):
AUSCDS, massive, massive brands in college sports, it's still
people just don't want to get Peacock just to watch that or
people are like, oh, I have to turn from cable to now load up
Peacock to watch this individualgame.
Well, that sucks. Like, I think that's going to
keep streaming services on the fringes.
Yeah, I agree. Well, what's interesting is me,
my personal perspective and experience with media and this

(36:36):
sort of like gatekeeping of leagues and and tournaments.
I belong. I I purchased Paramount Plus
because it was cheap and the student membership is really
just like 6 bucks a month, something of that nature.
And they have the rights, the media deal, the media rights for
the Italian Soccer League. And they also have the media
deals through CBS to the Champions League and to the

(36:57):
Europa League and so. We're playing that right now.
I got to catch some of the InterMilan, Barsa game and then
yesterday, what was it? It was Arsenal.
Arsenal and PSG. Yeah, and PSG.
So in between doing work I got to catch a little bit of those.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's really interesting how I've now become
sort of loyal not to the sport, but to Paramount Plus, because

(37:19):
Paramount Plus has every single Italian game, every single
Champions League game, every single Europa League game.
And I'm like, is that what's going to happen?
Is that going to be like the current format where streaming
services just buy out a league in a sense?
And now Peacock owns NCAA, all football games are on Peacock.

(37:39):
And now all Italian games are onParamount Plus.
All German games are on Hulu or I now I know that the MLS signed
with Apple, they have like a privatized deal with Apple.
So all of Apple and MLS games are on Apple TV.
And so now as a consumer, you'resort of juggling how to consume

(38:01):
these sports and you're like, well, do I have to pay for five
different streaming services? And it's that sort of
juxtaposition of like, do I spend money on cable or do I buy
5 different streaming services? And it's that sort of wild, I
guess, media market that we're in right now.
I think that works with soccer because in America there's just

(38:24):
not as much a demand for it. And so these streaming services
don't have to pay $7.7 billion. They pay 500 million, which is,
don't get me wrong, still a lot of money.
And I don't know if that's exactly what they're paying for
it. But they can do that with the
soccer leagues because there's just not that many bidders.
Whereas when you're going up against an ESPNA, Fox, an

(38:45):
NBCABC, all these different organizations and, and media
companies and they can just pay whatever because they need live
sports. They want live sports.
It's it's just going to be toughfor, for streaming to do that
with NFL, college football, NBAIguess the the big three of
sports media in America, becausethose are what people want to

(39:08):
see. And so those companies are just
not going to let that go. Yeah, it's interesting.
I wanted to ask you about the current the current format of
ESPNII would argue if I if I'd throw on ESPN right now, it's
probably something about a football team, something about
an NBA team, and that's it's probably it's probably you know
they're. Talking about the George pick
and Strait, Just the Cowboys. They're talking about LeBron and

(39:30):
Luca getting bounced. The Lakers.
Yeah, exactly. But I guess I, I've come to this
conclusion and it's kind of sad because I think it's not what
you and me want, but man, is it what a lot of people want.
Because I said it earlier, thesemedia companies are not dumb.
They're not, they're not doing that because they're, it gets
them worse ratings. They're doing that because it
gets them better ratings. They're getting all these

(39:53):
Nielsen reports. We, we get them at the station
too, where it breaks down how many viewers you have by show.
And you can get it really as much as you want to pay, you can
get it as detailed as you want to where hey, it's not just.
How did First Take do? It's hey, how did the A block do
versus the D block? What were the topics for those?
And that's why when it it comes to now how I consume sport,

(40:14):
that's another way is, hey, how do you build out shows?
Because you want to lead with the stuff that people really
want and you want to get people's attention, boom, as
quick as possible. Because a lot of people don't
fully listen to podcasts or fully watch through First Take
and say, I want to get those first couple segments and boom,
I got to do whatever it is. So unfortunately it is Lakers,

(40:35):
it is Cowboys, it is NFLNBAI wrote down with some college
football and MLB mixed in for certain topics.
When the college football playoffs coming up or if there's
a big game and then, you know, Shohei Otani is big and MLB, but
that's what they're rolling withand that's what gets viewers.
So for me and you, that's where we now have this Ave. with more

(40:56):
podcasts and social media, things like that.
We can get more niche and go, hey, I love to watch deep film
analysis of football. There's not as much room for
that on television because you have an 8 minute segment and you
got to build it out and you justlose people when you do that a
lot of times. But on Twitter you can record a
4 minute clip breaking down a certain play.

(41:17):
You can post it and there is an audience for that.
It's just maybe not the massive ESPN audience.
Yeah, I agree. Which is I have AI have a hot
take with with ESPN just becauselike like you said, it's not
what maybe we want. It's what the masses want.
And you know, even though soccer, in my opinion, and
arguably research shows is, is the most pop, one of the most

(41:40):
popular sports in the entire world, but yet one of the most
powerful countries in the world.the US doesn't focus on soccer
within their national media and things of that nature.
And you think of the importance of the World Cup, wouldn't it in
my mind, wouldn't it make more sense to be for global platform
and how how sport relates to politics?

(42:02):
Sport is a very political game when you think of it, you know,
back in the day with S South Africa and apartheid and rugby
and things of that nature. And wouldn't it in my mind,
wouldn't it make more sense for the US to focus more on the
growth of soccer through media and media representation?
If, you know, we're really, we're hosting the World Cup in

(42:22):
28. And if you know, the US bounces
out in the first round and all, and you look at all of our media
coverage, nobody's talking aboutsoccer right now and nobody's
looking at soccer at the MLS. It has the Open Cup where all
the it's like the like a EnglishOpen Cup where every, every team
in the United States, semi pro or pro gets a chance at this

(42:46):
cup. It's the Mar Hunt trophy.
And that's such a cool environment and such a cool
tournament, but I've never seen it covered on ESPN and where you
could get this sort of 4th tier semi pro soccer team playing up
against the professional and theless team.
And what if they win? Like maybe they'll show a 5
second top ten clip and then they'll move on.

(43:07):
And so I don't know my my personal opinion, I think it
would make more sense just for the globalization of sport to to
sort of put soccer on that platform and include them in
there, even though, like you said, it may not be what the
audience wants, but it's what I want.
So like and what I think other people may want, because I think
soccer's on the rise, but it's just really interesting to think
about. That's what it comes down to

(43:28):
because if soccer truly does getto that level, they'll put it
on. They did it with Caitlin Clark.
There was not any WNBA coverage.There was not any women's
college basketball coverage and it blew up with Caitlin Clark
because people wanted to see Caitlin Clark.
But until people start, and not just a person, but millions of

(43:49):
people are like, I want to hear about this.
They're not going to put it on there because their job is not
to say, hey, what is Tyler Hill,What does Nathan Merkel want?
Their job is to say, hey, how can I make the most money for
ESPN? And right now that is just not
by putting soccer, hockey, a lotof these I guess you would say
in the media sense, lower tier watch sports on.

(44:11):
Yeah, it's interesting. So do you think this is a
hypothetical situation? So when when the World Cup
arrives in the US, do you think if if the US makes a run and
goes deep in the in the tournament, do you think then
subsequently after the World Cup, media coverage of soccer in
the US will skyrocket? I think it would for the World

(44:31):
Cup run, you would get some niceStephen A Smith takes about our
our US soccer team. Yeah.
I just don't know if it would have sticking power because I
think I even I'm probably a goodexample of this.
I don't watch soccer pretty muchat all.
And then when the World Cup comes, I TuneIn when the US is
playing and even a couple other games, you know, if it's big

(44:53):
matchups, Germany, Spain or just, you know, throughout two
really historical countries, Brazil versus Mexico, whatever.
But then as soon as the World Cup is over, I don't watch
again. And so, so unfortunately for
soccer fans like you, I think I am probably the majority in
that. And so I think you would get a
ton of soccer coverage until theUS lost in the Final four or

(45:14):
whatever, and then it would probably just go back to a lot
of the same. That's wild.
Another follow up question, do you think with the, with the
inclusion or the participate participation of other very
famous athletes, because we got Leo Messi playing in the MLS
now. Do you think I've noticed that
it has increased soccer media coverage and things of that

(45:37):
nature. But like, do you think it, it's
going to take like the LeBron James of, of soccer in the US to
pioneer media coverage and maybein both sports with, with soccer
or maybe hockey or whatever it may be.
I'm just curious what you think,how, how does that tier get to
where football's covered, where it's literally on every TV.

(45:58):
You you go to Buffalo Wild Wings, it's on every single TV
and it's sort of. It you just got to figure out
how to have that staying power because I think the same thing
happened with Messi where it washeadlines when he joined Inter
Miami. And then at least I haven't
heard about it in a while, right?
Like I have no idea how Inter Miami is doing as a team.
You can even go back to me and my wife.

(46:18):
We were watching the Beckham documentary that's on Netflix
and it was a massive deal when he came to LA Galaxy.
I can remember as a kid saying who is David Beckham?
Because I saw him on Sports Center when he joined the LA
Galaxy, but then he retired and he moved on to different teams
and different ventures and you didn't really hear about
anymore. So there have been these moments

(46:40):
and I think the Hockey 1 is probably the Four Nations,
right? That was awesome.
There was so much coverage on the Four Nations and then in
playoff hockey. And there's about what I would
say is a normal amount of coverage for the NHL playoffs.
So, and I, I guess I don't have an answer for it, but you've got
to find a way to actually have that momentum snowball and not
just be a blip on the radar and we're back to normal.

(47:03):
Yeah, it's interesting. I want to sort of transition our
switch to sort of like gatekeeping idea of of sport and
media. When you think of like being a
reporter or being a broadcaster,or you know, if you're a, a
contractor and you're working, you're trying to build your
brand and maybe you don't work for a large ESPN meteorites
company and you're trying to penetrate that market.

(47:25):
Do you know, do do you think it's hard for like say if I
wanted hypothetic, if I wanted to quit my PhD degree, which
obviously I don't, I'm saying I don't, but in a hypothetical, I
wanted to quit. I want to become a sport
broadcaster and I want to do this.
I'm going to just go to a game and take some photos and try to
sell them. Like, like, do you think that's

(47:46):
possible for someone to just like become a broadcaster?
I'm more so asking this questionbecause I saw Ken Griffey Junior
became a broadcaster and he soldhis photo of Rory McIlroy
winning the Masters for like thousands of dollars.
And it's like, well, can anyone do that?
Or is it? Was he able to do it because
he's Ken Griffey Junior you. Know I was going to say he's I

(48:06):
think got a little little leg upon us by like a name and then
and then also you know he's got a lot of money to be able to buy
a very nice camera I'm sure but it is simultaneously easier than
ever and harder than ever. I say easier than ever because
like I said earlier anybody can get a mic honestly, you don't
even need a mic. You can do it through Airpods if
you wanted to or any type of earbuds and you can record it

(48:29):
and record your thoughts, what you think about a certain team,
certain league, certain game boom edit it posted there's free
editing software you can if you wanted to, you could do
everything for free and put out an episode or put out clips.
It's harder than ever because anyone can do that and so the
saturation of the market is insane.

(48:50):
You have to be able to distinguish yourself.
There was a stat when I was in college, I'm not sure if this is
true anymore, but it was that 99% of podcasts posted on
Spotify had 0 listeners. Because you can just anyone can
make anything, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's
actually going to get out there.So that's why I say it's both

(49:14):
easier than ever and harder thanever.
And that's kind of something I'mgoing through right now is, hey,
how am I going to be able to distinguish myself from these
other people that are able to dothe same thing?
I got to have better quality, better takes.
I got to be able to edit better.There's there's all these
different things or have better information, stuff that people
really want or, and that's wherethe I think the fans really come
in is or you could just be a fanof a team and you relate because

(49:36):
people are like, Oh, I am thinking the exact same thing
about the Florida Gators or about the Illini.
What whatever it is. Yeah, Yeah.
It's interesting. Do you think that's sort of that
sort of shifts us into the, the pros and cons of of what you
think sport and media is? Do you think that that
saturation is a pro at some at in some aspect, but it's
obviously a con in some aspect? I'm curious, like when you're

(49:59):
thinking of media right now, is there anything in your specific
opinion, obviously that just doesn't represent your, your,
your correlation to the, the media company you work for, but
your personal opinion, like what, what pro or con of media
do you think exists right now? And how do you, how do you think
people are overcoming that or consuming that?
I think just as a 1000 foot viewmedia is awesome and it is so

(50:24):
needed, it is the go between forfans who are on the outside
looking in of organizations or in the new sense, people who
want to know what's going on butyou know aren't going to be able
to talk to their mayor. Maybe right now the I think the
example that's on everyone's mind, Shudor Sanders falls in
the draft, the fifth round without the media and

(50:45):
explaining, hey, the interviews went bad.
Teams had a second round grade on him.
And once it got to the backup range, hey, maybe we don't want
all of this noise and cameras and interviews and everything
coming with that for our backup quarterback.
The fans would have zero idea what's going on.
Yeah. So I think it's so, so valuable

(51:05):
just again, as as an entity now when you get down, I guess to
the nitty degree of hey, is having so many people doing that
there. There's a pro in the niche Ness
that we talked about where you're able to find anything
right now. If you wanted to find a podcast
about Inter Miami, I can almost guarantee you you can.

(51:26):
But also, now you got to sort through just so much different
stuff. There's people that will put out
misinformation. So I guess that would be the
pros and cons of having so many people in it.
But media is so necessary in every aspect of life.
Yeah, I, I would agree. I, I believe it is.
I'm sort of old school. My, my personal opinion, I'm
very old school. I remember going to games as a

(51:48):
as a young kid with my dad and Ireally loved having the
specific, the, the ticket stub in my hand because I remember I
had a box underneath my bed withall the ticket stubs.
Maybe there are programs and things of that nature.
And like with the way that mediais transitioning, the tickets
now are all virtual. You don't have that print media,
you don't have that ticket in hand.

(52:10):
And I'm curious, like, do you think that that that is a big
deal? I personally, that's my personal
opinion. I'm just curious if you think
the sort of shift from physical tickets to media tickets.
Like I know it's a lot easier when Speaking of consumption,
but I'm just curious what your thought is of that.
I like having the physical ticket in hand and I think

(52:31):
that's more getting into ticketing and the organization's
how they do things more than I guess the the media covering it.
But I am definitely with you where I loved taking back the
physical ticket, put it on my dresser and you have your
favorite player on there in a graphic.
I think that is something that Ido miss a lot.
Yeah, I agree. I think the way that it shifts,
shifts are sort of consumption of sport and transitions into

(52:55):
medias where now that our tickets are online and are
through an app, we then I feel like subconsciously assume that
everything associated with that team will then be via online,
via app, via social media or whatever it may be.
And there is a recent article that came out by a Serbian
academic that talks about the importance of social media and

(53:18):
how we consume as society, we consume social media and talks
about how Barcelona, the professional team in Spain, they
have 27.8 million followers on. On Twitter slash X, they've got
226 million followers. On Facebook, Cristiano Ronaldo
has 300 and almost 310 million followers on various different

(53:43):
social networks and things of that nature.
And so I'm curious, do you thinkmaybe media consumption is
shifting to social media insteadof just regular media and it's
going to Instagram and Facebook and things of that nature?
It for sure is both to follow the players individually, which
is something in the past you couldn't do.
You were getting only what the media was sharing with you or

(54:06):
really at that point only what the team were sharing with the
media to share the fans. Now you can go directly there
and they are posting their life,their highlights, pictures that
they got from the game, all thisdifferent stuff that you did not
have access to beforehand, whichis cool.
But it also leads to what we talked about earlier where
instead of actually watching theteam and watching the games, you

(54:27):
can kind of do a quick recap on YouTube or watch the highlights
of that specific player on Twitter.
And that might breed fans that Ithink aren't as loyal to the
team, maybe as much as the player.
Yeah, I'll actually, I'll call myself out on this one with my
my busy schedule with school andresearch and I do the exact
thing that you're talking about.I've now I've switched from

(54:50):
getting up on Saturday mornings and getting a cup of coffee and
watching full games because I just love the game of soccer.
But now I'll get up, go on YouTube and then watch
highlights of the games just because I can go through five
games in an hour rather than watching one game in an in an
hour. And so like that's that sort of

(55:10):
thing we hinted on in the past of the attention span, the
things of that nature and how we're sort of decreasing the way
we consume sport in amount in the aspect of time.
And like it's really interestingto think about if, if how
individuals are favoring that, that highlight reel aspect of
sport. I'm curious, like the way that
we consume that, do you think that's going to impact the way

(55:31):
that people show up in stadium? Or do you think the way that
media is is sort of portraying sport is highlight reel,
highlight reel, highlight reel? Do you think that would
influence people to maybe not show up to games?
Or I'm just curious what you think about that.
I think more than the social media, I would say just TV is
what is the barrier for that. Personally, I just always will

(55:55):
love going to games. The atmosphere is unmatched.
And for some of the bigger programs in college football,
NFL teams, stuff like that, they're packing out stadiums.
They're not worried about it. But no, honestly, we were.
We were watching a White Sox game in The Newsroom the other
day just because it was on one of our TV's and there was 17
fans there. I'm exaggerating, but there just

(56:18):
was not that many people there because you can watch a game on
a Tuesday afternoon in The Newsroom, your house, wherever.
So I see that and honesty TV, and that's been, it's been this
way for a while. That is more of a barrier to
getting people to the games thansocial media.
Yeah. Do you think I've, I've seen
this is where individuals or people or fans will actually

(56:41):
combine the two, where they'll go to the game in person And
then have you seen like at baseball games, they'll actually
have the headset on and listen, they'll listen to the radio or
listen to the play by play of the commentator instead of being
in the arena itself. And I'm, I'm curious like, like
that's sort of that's like a pseudo sport consumption where

(57:02):
you're, you're indirectly, like we talked about indirectly is
where you go through media and directly where you see and
experience the sport first hand.That's that sort of combo.
I've only really seen it in baseball.
I'm curious, like I've never seen it in hockey.
I've never seen people show up to like a soccer game with the
set on. I'm curious like, do you think

(57:22):
that's going to show up in others like that sort of cross
media? Like, do you think it'll show up
in other sports? I don't know.
And that's where I know virtual reality is a big thing where
they're talking about putting cameras out there where you can
put on your Oculus and watch thegame as if you're sitting in
that seat. So, you know, I don't think
that's the exact same thing, butmaybe maybe adjacent in the way

(57:43):
it's going because I was about to say the same thing as I've
only seen it in baseball. And I, I dislike that personally
because the whole point of goingis to hear the atmosphere and
sounds of the stadium, the crackof the bat, whatever sound of
the sport you're watching, you want to be there for that, or at
least I do. And so that's not something that
I would do. And I wonder if there is a way

(58:04):
to tie in VR or a way to tie in AI or just however you could do
it to where you get that multimedia experience.
Yeah, yeah, I fully agree. And I really want to hit on the
the VR aspect in this sort of final, final section that we
we'll get into is the future projections of where we think
media is going. And I think in the future, I've
noticed a little bit that that Ithink it was the NBA that

(58:25):
actually did this, where they sold tickets through VR and
through Oculus. And you could put on your VR
headset and sit like basically courtside in the game.
But like in your on your on yourcouch, in your living room, in
your undies. And you're basically just like,
you know, at the game in the stadium, but it's all virtual.
And like in my old school, superold school consumption opinion

(58:49):
of sport, I think that that sortof media consumption is
extremely dangerous just for the, in my mind, I think it, it
degrades the way that humans consume sport in person, the way
that it's very communal, like wetalked about in the past and how
you share that sort of you sharethe sound with everyone, you
share the chance, you share the ambiance, the environment with

(59:12):
everyone within the arena. And I'm, I'm curious what you
think about the inclusion of VR and all these sort of things
that's happening and where you think media is going to go in
the in the future? Yeah, I think it's a great point
you made with taking away some of the communal aspects.
If you go back even to the 80s when there was the Supreme Court
case where the University of Georgia and the University of

(59:33):
Oklahoma were trying to take back their TV rights from the
NCAA, the big argument for why that shouldn't be a thing and
they should limit how many gamesare on TV is so that fans would
keep going to the games. And that has become a problem
again, I guess it for some of those smaller programs in NCAA
or smaller markets in professional leagues.

(59:53):
So they were kind of right, eventhough I think they ended up
making more money through the TVrights.
But sports has always been. About coming together with other
like minded people that like your team and to take that away,
like you said, through VR, through whatever I think is
dangerous. Because right now in society in

(01:00:13):
general, there is just less connection between people.
There are, you know, it's easierto just sit on your phone and
not talk to people. And so a lot of people do that.
We need as many things to bring us together and to make friends,
make connections as possible. Sport historically has been one
of the bastions of that and so II just hope it stays that way

(01:00:35):
and isn't taken away by VR. What's whatever's coming down
the pipe with with the future? Yeah, I agree.
I think, I think VR, in my personal opinion, I think VR is
one of those things where where we talked, we talked a lot about
how media and sport is this sortof cohesive relationship like a
like a marriage or a union whereyou know, individuals will
consume the sport and then consume the media to help them

(01:00:57):
understand sport or help them conceptualize and symbolize it.
But in my mind, when VR comes into the picture, it severs that
tie and it will then just place individuals wherever they want,
whenever they want with AVR headset and just acting as if
they're in the stadium, but they're really not and they're
not consuming sport. And I think it's going to

(01:01:18):
change. And the way that I sort of
thought about this is that it reminds me of the Raiders city
and that just got built. And they have like, I'm pretty
sure they have like a nightclub in their stadium.
It's like a. Yeah, well, they have a
nightclub, they have a casino. I was gonna say it's like a
bunch of different stuff in that, yeah.
Which in my mind is wild, wild to me where you've got a
nightclub at a football stadium.I get it's Vegas, but like, like

(01:01:43):
we're talking about that sort ofdegradation of, of consuming
sport and how media plays a role.
Like I'm curious, like, do you, this may be a super theoretical,
but the future of stadium experiences and going to games.
Do you think that because of theway that our attention span has
drastically shifted and it's going smaller with media and

(01:02:03):
things like that, that stadiums will become more of just a field
with nightclubs and all these TV's and shows and blah blah
blah, instead of just sport, community and things of that
nature? It's already changing.
I don't know if it'll get that drastic, but there are a bunch
of different stadiums that either already have places where

(01:02:25):
you can go and it's dedicated gambling.
There are stadiums that are being pitched right now that
have that. So it's already changing in that
area where it's not just the game on the field.
And when I took classes on specifically this, I've read
even what it was called, but it was a three O 2 class and it was
talking about like stadiums being built and blah, blah,

(01:02:45):
blah, anything. But it talked about how it's
it's really the experience. It's not just the game on the
field, but what you want to control is the experience for
the time they get on site until they leave and that quickly.
The biggest thing in that is nothow you can see the game or the

(01:03:07):
seat quality or the food. It is what outside of this do
you have for me to do? Yeah, it's interesting.
It's really curious. I'm really looking forward to
what what media is going to looklike in the future, specifically
in in stadium and how how I touched on in the past of the
direct versus indirect consumption.
Like what what media will do to sort of bridge that or, you

(01:03:29):
know, sever that or, or whateveris going to happen within these
stadiums. You start to see all these, you
know, like you said, gambling rooms and nightclubs popping up
and every club room has ATV in there and there's other sort of
aspects of media consumption at the stadium.
And it's just really interestingto see where sport is going to
go. I really enjoyed this
conversation. I thank you again for your time.

(01:03:50):
I hope everyone out there enjoyed the conversation about
sport and media. If anyone has any questions,
please feel free to message me and I hope you enjoyed the
episode and thank you very much.