Episode 62: Reclaiming Mind: Consciousness

In Episode 62 of the Reclaiming Man podcast, hosts Preston, Lieutenant Brad Dawson, and Michael delve into several key topics. They begin by discussing the evolving role of THC, sharing personal experiences with its use, and the challenges associated with overcoming addiction. The conversation then shifts to the broader benefits of the 12-step program beyond addiction recovery, emphasizing the importance of honesty, humility, and spiritual growth.

The hosts explore how our limited awareness—processing only 16 bits of information out of 11 million per second—affects relationships, drawing on concepts from Tor Norretranders' "The User Illusion." They reflect on how this limited perception can lead to reduced expectations and misunderstandings in long-term relationships.

Personal and professional growth is another focal point, with reflections on dealing with pride and insecurities. The hosts stress the importance of having a supportive network, especially in the context of the Nashville music scene. They highlight the need for self-awareness, the value of supportive relationships, and the continuous pursuit of personal improvement and alignment with spiritual values.

Episode Transcript

riverside_michael__ may (00:05):
Episode 62.
Welcome to episode 62.
I got Preston, the SouthernConnecticut Gurdamski,
Lieutenant Brad Dawson in thehouse and Michael, yours truly
coming at you live.
Maybe it's the morning, maybeit's the evening, whenever
you're listening.
Hope you enjoy this one.
We're on reclaiming mind andwhat an appropriate way to start

(00:25):
it.
We were just digging into the.
The relationship with THC Andhow that's changed over the past
couple years, lots of differentstates have legalized it,
normalized it in medicinal uses,whether it's a sleep aid or anti
nausea I think a lot of verylegitimate uses, I'll just put

(00:47):
my opinion out there there'smany people who can really
benefit from it, from a antianxiety perspective or just a
number of other medicinal usesfor it.
And everyone's relationship,like any drug, I think is
different.
Myself, I had quit it five yearsago when I quit drinking April

(01:09):
1st, 2019 and spent a few yearspretty much not touching it.
Occasionally would have puffedible, something of that
nature.
And then a couple of years ago,my wife had been going through
some gastrointestinal type ofchallenges where seemingly
nothing in the normal medicinalworld with western medicine was

(01:32):
is really helping you know goingto the specialists trying
different medications tryingFunctional medicine all sorts of
things, right?
and of course the diet theLongest That I would say of all
the solutions, changing yourdiet has the longest road and

(01:55):
just opportunity to see itsbenefits.
But so we tried different diets,elimination of gluten, all sorts
of things, but ultimately shewas at the point where the only
thing that was really touchingit was THC was making a little
bit better for her.
And yeah, got, I would saynormalized in our house again
with the medicinal effects thatit had for her.

(02:19):
And so over the past year and ahalf I'd I've always had, as an
adult, struggled sleeping, triedAmbien, Trazodone, all the
prescription meds for sleep andnever really liked the impact on
my dreams, everything like that,all the over the counter ones
too, whether it was Z Quil orMelatonin now I'm supplementing

(02:40):
Magnesium.
But all that to say, I had been,gosh, over the last year
anyways, I Nothing, I would sayas consistently as I was five,
five to 10 years ago, where itwas definitely, I would say the
true addiction of every day wakeup.

(03:00):
And it wasn't like, if, but whenscenario with it.
And then, I was mindful of thatto some extent, and so mostly
we've had edibles or THC drinksaround our house.
So I was like, okay, I'm goingto use this to try to help me
sleep a little bit better.
And honestly it did help me fallasleep quite a bit better.

(03:22):
But I started to notice again,just over the past few months
that I was starting to feel thissort of brain fog and sleepy in
the morning still.
And I'm not going to fullyattribute not being able to wake
up on time to it, but I don'tthink it helped.
And so yeah, I had the.

(03:42):
Moment of thinking am I lying tomyself?
We just talked about notworrying.
We talked about not lying acouple episodes back and I was
like, am I lying to myself?
Am I starting to think that I'vegot more power that I've got
this figured out.
And, just remembering the 12step program where you admit

(04:03):
that you're powerless and thatyou need a higher power to help
you overcome addictions.
And so I was, A couple, a fewweeks actually, three weeks ago,
I was playing at my home churchcampus in Anoka, where our
family usually will attend if wego together.
When we go together I play atour Minneapolis campus more, but
there was a couple guys out infront talking about the the 12

(04:26):
step program that we run calledQuest 180, which is super good.
And I just was like, Just chatwith him and I was like, yeah, I
think it might start comingagain.
And I was 50, 50 on it in myhead at that time.
And then out of nowhere, I had afriend who was called me the
next Sunday afternoon, this istwo weeks ago now.

(04:46):
And he's just Hey, you got sometime to talk this afternoon, get
together and talk, and I'm notgoing to go into his whole story
because it's not my story totell, but ultimately we're
having this conversation and, hemade the comment, he's Oh, I
don't know if necessarily you'dbe interested in my, my wife
said that you might not be thebest qualified to help me out.
Cause you're like Californiasober.

(05:07):
I was like, I've heard thatbefore rationalize it away.
And I was like, but I'm I waslike, but I'm not addicted.
That's what I said.
And, and I mean, I think that's,that is truthful to some extent,
but like I said, it's just aslippery slope.
And where do you draw the line?
And if you have that type ofpersonality why mess with it?

(05:28):
And yeah, last Tuesday, me andthis guy go to the recovery, the
addiction recovery program and Isit in his Cohen, coincidentally
the step one night and I'm justlike, oh, how opportune, right?
And originally I was like, Oh,I'm going to do this to support

(05:48):
him.
And then I realized I need thisjust as much as he does.
And it's not, guys, ultimately,if, you haven't looked at the 12
step program, it really, it'snot just about addiction.
It's not just about, Recovery.
It's about sin.
It's about what you have wrongwith you that you need to fix

(06:09):
and taking inventory of that andtrying to do something about it,
but not of your own powerleaning into to a higher power.
So yeah, I'm two weeks into itnow and just wanted to bring
that as a starting point for thereclaiming freedom episode that
we're on, because, ultimately Ido feel this greater clarity of

(06:30):
mind as a result of these, firstprobably I think it's.
What, 10 days, 11 days orsomething like that since I took
that last little capsule,because I had these, these 25
milligram capsules I was bustingin half.
Huh.
When you take it that way, itdefinitely feels like medicine

(06:51):
instead of a drug.
But as we know, pills can bejust as addictive as smoking or
drinking.
So yeah, I could see that seemsmore medicinal than when I used
to smoke weed out of my homemadeeggplant bong in the eighth
grade.
No, you're right.
So just like it has it can trickyou into thinking like, Oh, this

(07:14):
relationship isn't what it wasin the past.
And I would say that's, that wastrue.
It's just why dabble with it?
Let's just let's just cut thisoff.
Committed to going back throughthat 12 step program again.
And I'm glad that I am.
I, as soon as you do, yourealize it's not just about the

(07:35):
program, but it's also about thepeople and it's an anonymous
program.
So again, I'm not going to sharetoo much about other people's
stories, but they ultimately.
in aggregate help youcontextualize and realize that
you're not alone.
First of all, there's otherpeople who are going through
what you're going through.
I don't know if anyone listeningresonates with something in

(07:58):
their life.
It doesn't have to be a drug,right?
If there's any sort ofcompulsive behavior that you
want to, do something about it'sa good program to take a look
at.
I know Brad seconds, it supportsit.
And I'm just really, yeah,really glad that I feel like I'm
back on that path of integrityto, to staying true to what I
said I was going to do fiveyears ago.

(08:20):
And, with that, I think therewas one topic I was hoping to
introduce since it's been alengthy intro by me, but I was
Coming back from the Ragnartrail run and Zion national
park, which was absolutely epiclast weekend and was listening

(08:42):
to a bunch of differentpodcasts.
And one of them had a Danishauthor and philosopher, Tor
Nortranders he published a bookin 1991.
In Danish called the userillusion, cutting consciousness
down to size translated toEnglish in 98.

(09:03):
I haven't read it in itsentirety yet, but having
listened to this interview,there were some things that I
thought were worth a quickdiscussion.
And hopefully I'm going to sharea concept with you gentlemen and
just put you on the spot and seewhat you think about it.
But what he shared was thatconsciousness is, our ideas of

(09:26):
the world are very, limited andvery compressed based on our
ability to actually processinformation.
So it's been several years sincethey've quantified this, but
obviously, cause he wrote thisbook in 91 and it's 2024, but 11
million bits of information areprocessed through our sensory

(09:48):
organs every second, our eyes,our taste, our hearing, right?
Everything that we touch, it allis translated to 11 million bits
of information and ourawareness.
We compress it down to 16, 16bits of information.
So when you think about thatratio and our ability to,

(10:13):
process the world, it's quitelimited.
And so he is talking a lot aboutrelationships and stories, which
we use to perceive the world.
And one of the things that hesaid that I just thought was so
fascinating and was quiteconvincing, he says the longer
that you spend with yourpartner, I actually think I told

(10:36):
you guys about this in a polo acouple of days ago.
So you're like, this soundsstrangely familiar.
Maybe I didn't, I don't know.
But he says, the longer that youspend with your partner, the
more that you start to perceivethem as an idea that it's your
idea of who they are, but it'scompressed down to these really
small pieces of what theirpotential is.
And so thinking about it as as Ilook at my wife, am I looking at

(10:58):
16 out of 11 million?
bits of information and justcompressing my idea of what her
potential is and not letting hersurprise me, not letting her be
more than my idea of her becauseI want it to some extent to be
predictable and controlled.
So that's the idea that I wantedto talk about because I think

(11:19):
it's really quite liberatingwhen you realize how little of
the world that we actually haveawareness of and see if there's
any sort of initial reactionsthat you guys have and It
doesn't have to be a superlengthy discussion.
I am candidly just fried,allergies, everything like that.
But I don't know, Preston, Brad,any thoughts about that?

(11:43):
I mean, I definitely do.
Preston what do you, got?
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonnalet you get in here.
Oh, okay.
I mean, you got something.
It's, I mean, it's just a mindblowing thing.
I've never heard that.
I don't know what you would callit, a statistic.
Yeah, number of data.
But it's just I mean, before I Iguess, tied in with my wife in a

(12:07):
way that you did with yours,it's just that idea that our
minds or bodies collectively areprocessing like that much.
In a, what you said in a second?
Yeah, in a second.
Yeah, I mean like I, that's likewhen I.
That's wild.
Oh, go ahead.

(12:28):
No, it's it's taking that in,but it's not processing it
though.
We right.
Your brain is processing it, butyour awareness is simplifying it
and compressing it down.
And so he's just saying that thevast, and this is resonates with
everything else that I've heard,but your unconscious mind is

(12:49):
what does the most work.
What you're not aware of yourbrain is in mind is doing the
most work to process theenvironment around you, but your
awareness is such a smallportion of it.
So what it made me think,because I had ideas about, I
wanted to talk a little bitabout what you opened with the

(13:11):
THC, right?
I had to talk about that.
Yeah.
Things that but as I, you wenton, I thought this is
interesting because if you'reonly aware of a limited.
Yeah.
Scope of what is going on withinyou that makes perfect sense
because we're self centered likeby actual, reality.

(13:39):
We are self centered, right?
You only you live your life fromyour center.
You only see what and when wewere talking about recovery, you
had said something about it notreally being so much about drugs
and alcohol, which is very true.
And I realized that and there'sa my favorite line in the big

(14:00):
book is that selfishness andself centered that we think is
the root of our troubles.
The root of our troubles.
The root of our troubles isselfishness and self
centeredness.
62.
If you miss that, you're overhere focused on, I need to quit
drinking.
I need to quit this or I need toquit whatever.

(14:20):
And you, and then you start torealize that they have
discovered that selfishness,self centered is the root of our
trouble.
So it's tied to that becausewhat happens is we can't see.
We're not capable sometimes tosee what is actually happening.
And so it really ties togetherbeautifully.

(14:41):
And I'm attempting to tie themtogether more and explain that.
But it's, our troubles we thinkare basically of our own making.
It goes on to say, and theyarrived from ourselves.
And that is because of ourlimited scope of what is

(15:01):
happening.
And so it ties into what withyour wife or any relationship.
It's because we are motivated byfear, which is a reality.
Self preservation mechanism,which I think is also closely
related to sin, where a lot oftimes we misplace fears, and

(15:23):
these fears become massive whenthey're actually really based in
emotion, they're not actualfacts, and we start to try to
fix all these other things andto maneuver them and manipulate
them.
And what we think we havecontrol over so that we can feel
good on the inside rather thanseeking first on the inside, and

(15:47):
getting those things.
organized so that everything onthe outside can fall into place.
So it's interesting you broughtthis up because of course I have
a lot to say on recovery and itis a slippery slope.
I mean, I'm a marijuanaadvocate.
Like I think it's great.
It just doesn't work for me.

(16:07):
And that's the experiencebecause I smoked weed for so
long.
And then towards the end of myuse in my last relapse It was
becoming more popular.
It was legal in California.
It wasn't like it was startingto be viewed less as Oh, look at
this guy smoking a blunt.
It had this negative kind ofconnotation where now it's like,
Oh, people are taking CBD andthere's oil and it's like low

(16:30):
key and like successful peopleare doing it and they're finding
there's all these benefits andblah, blah, blah.
And I'm like why can't Iexperience these benefits?
Like why, when I smoke weed, isit like fucking party time?
Or, I just get anxiety.
Like I started getting anxietyfrom smoking weed.
And everyone's you're justsmoking the wrong strain of bud,

(16:50):
dude.
You need to get that.
That's right.
You need that, sativa dog, andI'm like, everyone's quick to
tell you why it's okay.
Because in many cases theythemselves are having some sort
of relationship.
Yeah, it makes it harder to gethonest with yourself, and it's,
some people can manage it.

(17:11):
And it's Who cares what otherpeople can do?
I had a, it says it somewhere inthe big book too, and I had a
sponsor that would say, Hey man,if you're questioning whether or
not you're an alcoholic or not,he's like, why don't you go out
there and try some controlleddrinking and then come back and
see us after that's done and letus know what happened, and so I
would do that I would smoke andtry to manage it.

(17:33):
And for a while there, I wasjust smoking and drinking and I
made it work.
But I had to remember with anydrug or anything, you're really
only treating the symptom.
It's not healing you at thecore.
Sure, there might be somecellular things happening when
you smoke.
It could regenerate some thingsand maybe connect some things in

(17:53):
the brain.
And I have to also be careful tonot demonize anything alcohol
and drug related because of myown recovery.
It can happen when you're sobera long time, you begin to
demonize these things and putyourself on a pedestal and start
looking down on everyone whosmokes weed or drinks because it
doesn't work for you.

(18:13):
My, my mom will do thatsometimes.
I'm like, gosh, it's, she'lljust be like, I'll talk to her
about somebody and she'd belike, he's probably an
alcoholic.
And I'm like, everyone's not analcoholic because you are.
Okay.
It's like she only sees itthrough this lens of like her
problem.
And so now it's and so I hopedwhen you shared about your THC

(18:35):
stuff you've got going on andyou're letting it go, I think,
okay.
I have to be careful about how Icome across, but what I realize
is not to me and I hope right.
None of our listeners feel thesame way because again, everyone
has different relationships witheverything.
I mean, let's be honest.
There are many prescriptiondrugs out there that a doctor
will say, Hey, this is going tohelp you.

(18:57):
And I can give an example withmy father in law he was
prescribed Klonopin and on thepill bottle, it says take once a
day.
If you take a benzodiazepineonce a day, you're gonna get
really addicted to it, you knowThere's gonna be withdrawal
symptoms if you stop doing iteven like real bad nasty
withdrawal symptoms If you don'tlike wean your way off of it but

(19:19):
when you're when you started tosay Like you gave your you
answered your own question whenyou were sharing with us on polo
because you're like, you know AmI lying to myself?
It's like as soon as you askthat question You've already
answered it, right?
Because an alcoholic doesn'twonder if he's an alcoholic or

(19:42):
not.
And we would always say this ifyou're like, if you're in here,
we would say this in a oh, ifyou're in here wondering if you
have a problem with alcohol ornot, you do.
Because, People who don't have aproblem with alcohol.
Don't wonder about that.
I don't actually agree withthat, to be honest with you.
Really?
Oh, there's so many alcoholicswho are complete denial.
Absolutely.
And they never, they do becausethey compare themselves.

(20:03):
No, I said that wrong.
I said that wrong, then I saidthat wrong.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's not what, I mean what Imean is what I mean is.
If you're questioning whether ornot you have a problem, you do
because you wouldn't bequestioning it.
If you didn't have a problem.

(20:24):
Yeah, possibly.
You wouldn't be like, Hey, Iwonder if I have a problem with
alcohol.
It's something prompted you tothink that and.
What do we define as a problemwith alcohol?
Oh, maybe it's this DUI.
Yeah, it's definitely close tothe truth.

(20:44):
And where I think it's, so Ithink it generally is true.
Yeah.
I think that's generally true.
I think there are just a lot ofpeople, including myself who
make comparisons.
And so let's say we look atsomebody next to us at the bar
and we're drinking and Make thejudgment that, Oh, I'm not that

(21:07):
bad, dude.
Yeah, it's classic, right?
Yeah.
And, and, I think there aretimes where.
Maybe what it means is there aremore people who have problems
with alcohol than, they think.
Even.
Having that conversation though,I think there's a lot of people,

(21:28):
there are many people that havea good relationship with, I know
many people that have a goodrelationship with alcohol.
And by that, I mean, they areable to have it occasionally,
enjoy it, and then, spend plentyof time not consuming it and not
having a true addiction to it inthe sense that it becomes

(21:50):
habitual, and then.
Challenging for them to and soyou have to define what is too
much?
What is a problem?
So then it's and I just was justrelated to what you were saying,
because I think you, in the pollyou were just like questioning
it.
And then I didn't see you goingthe other direction.
I didn't see you being like, Oh,you know what?

(22:10):
Turns out I evaluated this and Idon't have an issue.
It's not to say that couldn'thappen, but it's I, it's if
you're asking yourself thatquestion, you discover.
You're already there basically.
Yeah.
And I think for me, which isdifferent than many people, both
alcohol and THC are not the rootproblems.

(22:35):
And that's what I was trying toget at with the whole 12 step
program.
It's like many people, it is abig part of the problem or a big
symptom of the problems thatthey have in their life.
And in and of itself, it becomesa problem and it amplifies other
problems, but it's more otherthings that I realized.
And so I would say theunderlying problem that I was

(22:57):
really exploring when I said doI have issues with THC or am I
lying to myself?
The real question, which isharder for anybody to admit and
I'm okay doing it because I'vedone it in the context of many
groups is am I becoming tooprideful and thinking that I
have power to control andbalance and moderate some of

(23:20):
these things and Oh, I've gotthis under control.
Like I've got this period.
And I think as soon as I get tothat point in life where I'm
like, I've got this, then it'stime for a good dose of
humility.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Are you just at a point to wherethere's this, point, which I got
to, which was like, I knew mydrinking and drugging was a
problem, but I just enjoyed ittoo much.

(23:40):
Like it was a calculated risk.
It was just like, yeah, man youknow what?
I just like getting stoned and,that's where I say when it got,
legalized, I had all thesestoner friends that were like,
that's exactly what I was goingto say.
Yeah.
It was just like, oh yeah.
And I'm like, really dude,you're smoking like six blunts a
day.
It's not.
You're, you look like aRastafarian it's okay if that's

(24:03):
your way of life, but don't sithere and tell me that it's
because it helps your, whatever,or it's okay you're also
destroying your lungs orwhatever, and you got all these
other things going on, and Ifeel like there's some other
deeper stuff that you're maybenot ready to look at, not you,
but this person, so to speak.
Yeah, Yeah, it was more, I wouldsay I was.
Concerned that I was lying tomyself about my pride that I was

(24:27):
like overcoming that sin thatroot cause of maybe why pride
and selfishness very closelyrelated certainly so it's just
when I Look at the comparisonbecause that's what we do we
compare as much as we're notsupposed to like I compare
myself to my former self This islike Michael, I don't know,

(24:49):
three, four, 5.
0.
I have no idea how manyiterations there's been to me
over these past several years,but there've been a lot and much
to my wife's frustration, I'msure.
Mostly moving in the rightdirection, but sometimes too far
in the right direction to betolerable.
And, I remember getting finishedwith the Tony Robbins, Unleash

(25:10):
the Power Within conference, andit's four or 10 hour days of
self improvement and just.
Really intense energy andchanging your state and getting
into peak state and all theselike good things.
And then you're on thismountaintop and you come down
and your face is glowing.
You've had this experience withGod, so to speak, and it's

(25:31):
alarming to other people.
That haven't gone through itwith you.
And so in this case, I was likecomparing myself again.
Oh, rationalizing it saying, ohthis is nothing like it was in
the past and that's true.
It, nothing, it is nothing likeit was in the past, but is it
perhaps the beginning of whatled me to the place that I was

(25:53):
in the past?
I don't know, but I'm nevergoing to find out because I'm
done again.
And that's, what's cool.
What's really cool is thatyou've are in a place in your
life or anyone who's in a placein their life to, to get honest
with themselves, right?
It doesn't matter what you sayto me or to your wife or to
anybody it's cause a lot oftimes people are motivated to

(26:13):
get sober for a reason or foranother person and they want to
look good or they want to fixsome things.
But then that honesty, that trueHonesty about is this the truth?
Yeah, it's and it was a fear.
So that was like, everything waspropagated, I would say, by the
conversation that we had aboutfear and all of a sudden this
stuff, all this content that Iwas consuming and seeing was all

(26:35):
about fear.
And then I realized like.
I'm afraid that I'm going in thewrong direction with this again.
I'm afraid that I'm becomingmore prideful again.
I'm afraid that my wife wasmaking the comment, you're not
being as supportive of me as yousay that you want to be.
Immediately I was like, that'san integrity issue.

(26:56):
If I say I want to be supportiveof you, And then my actions
aren't reflecting that.
Again I, honestly can say itprobably wasn't THC that was not
keeping me from being supportiveof her.
It was me being prideful and mestarting to do all these things,
me starting to have some successwith trading and be like, Oh, I
got this.
I've got this, and then when youask this question real quick

(27:20):
about, so then you, make arealization and you ask in any,
for anybody listening or anyperson struggling at all with
something.
So you make a realization youget honest.
Then what and when we takeaction you take action.
But going back to what you saidearlier about how being sober is
less about the substance is whatit actually designed.

(27:40):
The 12 step program is designedto primarily give you a
relationship with a higherpower.
So you need that you need to,tap into that power through the
action.
And so before it, before you, Ithink even before you act
that's, yeah, that's why thatliving fearlessly book was so
great because it goes throughthis process of identifying the

(28:02):
fear.
My fear was I'm becomingprideful again, and this is
taking me away from the personthat I want to be.
I'm not being as supportive formy wife.
I am starting to believe thatI've got the power when I don't,
and then it's doing some.
Truth speaking to that,confessing like that's even what
I'm more or less doing, publiclyhere to people that I've talked

(28:27):
to about it.
And it's just one of thosethings where again, everyone's
relationship is different.
So there's no condemnation forme coming, going towards my
wife, who I absolutely believeit's very, helpful for her and
in dealing with a lot of thingsthat she's dealing with and she
didn't have the same.
Issues and I don't think I'mjust rationalizing it for her

(28:48):
because I don't think she has apride issue But so once you get
past that confession stage isthen you got to ask a higher
power You've got a I've got toask God like who do you want me
to be and then you got to waitand you got to listen and that's
hard and I've, this is the firsttime I've said it out loud, but

(29:11):
like the words that I've heardlately are relationship,
redeemer, caregiver, resourcegenerator, like those five words
and I don't know yet if it's amI making that up?
Or is that really God tellingme?
I don't know yet, butrelationship, redeemer,
caregiver resource, generator,five words.
But I'm thinking in my life,what am I being called to do?

(29:34):
And then.
Yeah.
How do I take action on that?
And the next step after you getthat identity and maybe that's
not it, right?
I'm just gonna keep on askingand see maybe it's something
else, but I think it's closeLike I think about my
relationship with my wife, youknow I think that God can work
through me to redeem thatrelationship and It's not me.

(29:58):
It's him.
But yeah I think that I thinkabout my brother how much I love
him and how much I don't have asmuch time to It's been with him
and he's out in Colorado, but Iwant to redeem that
relationship.
I want to get to the point whereI have the resources to care for
these people in my life,especially like my father in
law.

(30:18):
He's given me that insight into,the, neurodegenerative diseases
that just wreck older people.
And very few people, I think,have the resources to, Be able
to care for their loved oneswhen they get to that point.
And we had to put them in thesememory care facilities and all

(30:39):
of them are just highway robberyand they're for profit.
And I'm just like, maybe whatGod's calling me to do is to
redeem relationships in people'slives by enabling some sort of
facilities.
And I don't know big goals,right?
I'm just putting it out there.
But to build these nonprofitplaces where.

(31:01):
People with dementia can go and,find the level of care that they
need and there's no sort ofstrings attached to it, just
pays the people that areemployed there really well.
And I've got all these ideaswith AI.
I'm like, what if you had thisjust wall and had an AI, you

(31:23):
guys are like, where are yougoing?
Dude, this was going to be ashort one.
This AI wall that like listensto all the questions that people
with dementia ask, and it startsto say Oh every day they're
asking 20 times what time it is.
I'm always going to have a bigclock.
They're always asking how theweather is.
I'm going to have the weather.
They're always asking how toturn the TV on.

(31:43):
So I'm going to have a part ofthe wall.
That's just this sequence of theright buttons to press on the
remote.
So they know how to turn theirTV on.
Maybe it's they're asking, Hey,who are you?
The person who's walking inthere and it's going to
recognize, oh that's your son.
So it's going to have a pictureof you and that person in the
context with the label.

(32:03):
This is your son now.
Yeah, this is your son.
And just playback all these, Idon't know.
Like I, I just have this.
It's crazy.
But, I don't know, all that'spossible, right?
It is, All that's possible.
But it starts, where does itstart, right?
It just starts with like Takingsome action.
And, taking it easy and notoverthinking it.

(32:26):
And just that one next thingand, that you do and taking
action.
It's I would have never imaginedsome of the things that were
gonna happen in my life.
And I just think, I do thank AAfor just reminding me that it's
just don't drink today and bespiritual in the morning to take
some time.

(32:48):
If you, wrong anyone, make itright.
Keep your mouth, shut as much asyou can.
For me, that's a great one.
If I have a chance to keep mymouth shut, just do it.
Cause I get myself in trouble.
Yeah.
And it's and I just focus onthese I focus on these like
basic things and focus on thoseand then watch what happens

(33:10):
there's just who knows what canhappen.
And you can have dreams and youcan have all these goals and all
this stuff.
And they'll just magicallymaterialize almost once you
invite God in and you reallyjust minimize your life down to
you know that focus and I getcaught up in that because I'm a
thinker and I want to I see theworld as like everybody is doing

(33:32):
all this stuff and how are theydoing it and I got to compete
with that but I just got to stayout of that stay out of what
they look like and just do whatI know is right and that's hard
you know it's hard it's not easyit can happen once we Take those
first step like once we get peelthe layers of the onion and out
of the way And we get down weget some of this, 16 bits of

(33:55):
information.
Yeah, we get some of this crapout of the way, then now we have
God can work, and then some ofthis subconscious power can be
utilized, right?
It's I know that to be true.
Like you're going to yoursubconscious is doing all these
things.
You're not aware of it, but inyour, it's what you're doing 16
bit.
Out of those 16 things, makethem prayer, meditation family,

(34:19):
whatever, focus the 16 on those,and then, guess what, the
subconscious is then gonna startdoing all these amazing things,
because of you, because you didwhat you actually had control
over, and I still struggle withthat.
Not struggle, but I, just don't,I haven't perfected that by any
means.
Yeah, that's not the point,right?
Progress.
But, it's like I don't haveproblems really in my life.

(34:42):
I like to choose what I think Ido, but these problems that I
have today are so basic.
Today, okay, my problem today.
was with UPS, Preston.
I was like, maybe if it was, Iwas like, maybe if it was FedEx
and I had ordered, I orderedthese vapes.
And mine's are dying and it'ssupposed to arrive today between
12 and four and that you have tosign for it because it's a

(35:03):
nicotine product.
I still have my nicotineproduct.
So I'm like, okay, I'm going tobe home.
I, my doorbell doesn't work.
So I had to put a note on thedoor because I had missed one of
them before they didn't comebetween 12 and four.
I'm like Mom lives with me.
I'm like this look out for thedoor.
Like someone has to sign for it.
They come two hours after thewindow.

(35:24):
And I was just so frustratedwith UPS.
I could, you had a four hourwindow.
You couldn't even, those are myproblems today.
What flavor did you get?
What's in your new batch?
It's the same one that I get.
It's the strawberry cereal donutmilk.
Oh, okay.
But that's my next.

(35:46):
I'm gonna be done.
I'm gonna be done with vapinghere at some point.
I'm not 100 percent ready.
I need to tell myself I'm ready.
I don't know if I'll ever beready.
But, some guy at this gig lasttime bass player at my gig was
like, How old are you, man?
And I was like, How old do youthink I am?
And he's 30 man, I love you.
And I was like keep going.
And he gets 40, he's 35, 37.

(36:07):
I'm like keep going, And 42 I'mlike, whoa.
So I'm 40 and he goes he goes,and you vape.
And I was like, what do youmean?
And I vape what do you mean bythat?
He's wasn't that like what kidsdo?
And I was just like, this dude'slike again, I guess that's what

(36:28):
I'm like.
I was like, I used to smoke.
Would that be cooler if I waslike 40 smoking cigarettes?
Anyway.
I'm over here rattling aroundlike trying to figure out how
I'm going to quit vaping andthis dude just asks me this and
it's totally, the universe justsending it's yeah, giving me
little signs and it's just he'sright.
We're reaching that age, Brad,where I think you and I both

(36:49):
need to start smoking pipes.
Yeah, the old school pipes andstuff and we'll have our little
pipe station in our garage wherewe just Dude, have you ever
actually smoked pipe tobacco?
Yeah, it's hard.
It's hard.
It's so tasty, it's like wet andtasty and like vanilla and it's
the most amazing taste.

(37:11):
We're not sponsored by PipeTobacco yet, but if there's any
companies out there, we will onthe show sample some warm, wet,
honey berry type tobacco.
A honey berry backwoods shallsuffice.
Gandalf.

(37:32):
Yeah, that's the age we're at.
This episode took a turn, but I,I was I was like, oh, we're
gonna keep this one, one short,but.
Tangent City Episode 8.
Tangent City.
Real quick, just to follow up onthis Yeah, it talked about
selfishness and self centered inthe big book and we talked about
letting God in, right?
We got to give God the power.

(37:53):
We've got to turn over our powerto Him, right?
And so at the end of that page,one of my favorite pages, it
says this is the how and why ofit.
First of all, we had to quitplaying God.
Yeah.
It didn't work.
And we decided thereafter in thedrama of life that God was going
to be our director.
He was the principal.
We were his agents.

(38:13):
He is the father.
And we are his children.
Most good ideas are simple.
And this concept was thekeystone of the new and
triumphant arch through which wepassed to freedom, Cool.
That's it, man.
You, I mean, that's what thisshow.
Money get outta the way.
You get outta the way.
You're not God.
Like we stop being God.

(38:33):
You are not God.
You don't have control overthese, not you, but you know, in
general, like for anyone outthere, these decisions are not
all for you to make yourdecisions are that 16 bit of
information that you havecontrol over.
Dude, that's weird that you saythat because I was reading a
couple days ago how the ha itwas this one was called The
Habit of Having No Habits.
It was a daily.

(38:56):
My daily, daily journal and it'slike your God may be your little
Christian habit whatever thehabit is that you think is great
and you focus on it so much thatit's like you're focusing on the
habit of doing it instead ofwhat you actually should be
doing.
Oh, yeah.
Jordan Peterson said that.
He was like, believing in God isnot believing in God is not

(39:19):
following him.
I don't know what he said, butit was like he, what he, he says
that I think is reallyinteresting.
When people ask him if hebelieves in God, he's I behave
as if I do.
Yeah.
And I think that's I mean, whocare rubbers what you say's,
that's where the rubber to saywho cares if you, say that you

(39:40):
do or don't do you behave as ifyou do?
Yeah.
And that's the integrity piecethat I think I was just, going a
little bit of field from Right.
And, that's when you're comingback to that original data point
of 16 bits of information andout of 11 million.

(40:04):
I think it's very easy for us tofocus on what we perceive are
like, Oh, these are the goodthings I'm doing.
This is, me.
This is what I've got moving inthe right direction instead of
focusing on all those otherthings that our unconscious
mind, like you said, oursubconscious mind is doing,
which I think that's a lot wherethe higher power works and where

(40:25):
the supernatural works because,you think about faith, right?
And it's what you don't see.
You, have to believe in what youdon't see, that's what faith is.
And so if you're processing 11million bits of information a
second, gosh, you add that upover the course of a day, you
don't see any of that.

(40:47):
16 bits of it a second, likethis fraction of it, and you
have to have faith for sure.
Even in that statistic torecognize that like your body is
doing some incredible things,your mind's doing some
incredible things.
And sometimes, and many times Ithink they're not serving us.
Like when we normalize a habitlike drinking or vaping or

(41:08):
smoking or anything, right?
Like we know that they're badhabits at the same time.
It's when you say I'm not sureif it's that way for you or not.
And by no means, is it a callout against you?
It's just like there are certainthings that you associate it
with subconsciously.
For me, when I smoke cigarettes,I was commuting every day

(41:29):
minimum 40 minutes in the car,usually 40 to 60 minutes each
way.
And so it'd be like, I'm gonnasmoke one at the beginning and
one at the end.
And that's what it was like inmy head.
I never really thought of itthat way, though, until I was
trying to quit.

(41:49):
And I was like, holy cow, Ismoked two there, two back every
once in a while, be three for areal bad day.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah.
And the problem is subconscious.
It's totally for me.
It's a subconscious problem.
It's like, how do I get inthere?
I asked God for help.
Yeah, but you know, but you gotto pick yourself up at some

(42:14):
point off the ground.
Like you, you do have to pickyourself up off the ground.
You have to align, you have toalign your will with God's will.
Yeah, you got it.
That's the tough part, man.
That's the bridge is that we dohave a will.
We do have the power to makedecisions right, wrong, good,
bad, fearful, loving whateverthose are, but we discover what

(42:36):
God's will is we begin to alignourselves with God's will and,
that's the whole act and that'sreally what just to go circle
back.
It's that's what the 12 stepprogram is.
I wish more people could stickaround long enough.
To see that because sometimes Ithink they get the wrong idea
and they don't always understandbecause they don't stick around
long enough to, read the fineprint.

(42:59):
I mean, that 164 pages takesyears to sink into your brain
because you're defending youraddiction still.
That's, yeah, that's what itultimately, even as I think
about it.
Did the 12 step program a fewtimes, right?
Cause I went for about a year,so that was enough time.
I think it was enough to gothrough it like three and a half
or four times that I wentthrough it.

(43:20):
I'm getting my medallions, I'mdoing it.
And at some point I was like,Nope, I got this.
I don't need this anymore.
And what is that?
It's, just pride creeping backin.
And even so that's it's reallyinteresting to think about it.
And maybe you don't need it fromthe.

(43:45):
quitting drinking perspective,but I think you definitely need
the program in some context,whether it's going to a Tuesday
meeting or whether it's justsimply going through those 12
steps on a regular basis.
If you don't continue to gothrough them, which we both know
the 12 step, the 12th step istaking what you've learned.

(44:08):
Sharing it and giving back andthen so there was this learn,
earn, return, model that I heardfrom Jim Quick and I'm, like
that's, basically what this is.
I like that, just how it rhymesor whatever, but yeah, and the
idea is to practice, it says to,we practice these principles in

(44:32):
all our affairs.
So the goal is once those Onceyou do the steps and hopefully
they become a working part ofyour life, right?
And we're always doing the stepsand I find myself and I remind
myself cuz oh, I'm not activelydoing the steps right now yes, I
am because their work part of mylife if I wrong somebody I make
an amends immediately.
It's that's the, eighth step.

(44:55):
If I'm doing a spot checkinventory where I'm just like,
Hey, what's going on with me?
What am I scared of?
And that's part of my nightlyprayers.
Like, where was I selfish, selfcentered and fearful today?
And I go, Oh, wow.
I was like, disrespectful to mywife, or I was I didn't say the
right thing here.
I acted out of fear here.
And then I, that's a spot checkinventory.
So that's a forced, that's a10th step.

(45:15):
I meditate and pray.
That's the 11th step.
Shoot.
Sometimes I'm in the first step.
Sometimes I'm like doing so badthat I'm just like, Whoa, God,
I'm powerless.
I'm powerless over people,places, and things.
I'm a powerless over alcohol anddrugs.
It's not the alcohol and drugsI'm admitting powerlessness to
anymore.
It's the, emotion that I gotthat I want to share real quick.

(45:37):
I know we're going on here, butI wanted to share something
about that happened to me lastnight.
I have been doing this other gigon Tuesday nights to try to
prepare this band for the grandopening of Bon Jovi's.
So I know what the plan is.
My other band got a schedule onTuesday.
I'm like, of course they did.
Of course, Tootsies gave usTuesdays now because I'm trying

(45:58):
to do something on Tuesdays andI never usually play Tuesdays.
My, my singer's totally fine.
I'm the guy, I have the, I haveHe has no problem subbing me
out.
They get a sub last night and Iwake up this morning.
I saw, you saw the post about hewas like, it was his first
Broadway gig and he fuckingslayed it.
And that's my gig.

(46:18):
Yeah, I thought the same thingwhen I saw it.
I was like, Oh, Brad's probablyseeing this thing.
I'm like, Oh fuck.
I just woke up to them having ablast with some other drummer.
And I couldn't help in spite ofall of my experience and knowing
exactly what this is and how notto behave and how not to take
this.
I took it to heart, man.
I was just like, Oh man.

(46:39):
So I, you know what I did was isI let myself feel it.
I go, okay go, down that roadfor a minute.
Oh, what, they had more fun withyou?
Or with him?
Oh, what, he's a better drummerthan you?
Whatever.
Go ahead, play the tape through,play the tape through, play the
tape through, right?
And I'm like, you know what?
I just had a great rehearsalwith those guys yesterday.
We're writing some originalmusic with Hunter.
I offer, I bring all thesethings and I have to go through

(46:59):
What I bring to the table andremind myself what I bring to
the table.
And I even thought about writingsomething like, Hey guys, I'm so
stoked.
You guys had a great time, butguess what?
I'm back on Friday and Saturday.
I'm not going to say that I'mnot going to say that.
I mean, the right thing is yousay nothing, but you know, and I
didn't.
Yeah.

(47:19):
Yeah.
But that's such a takes a lot ofwillpower not to.
Let that just fester and thengrow and turn into this
resentment.
And then all of a sudden, thenext time you show up, you're
just like, steamed because youhaven't dealt with it.
You haven't felt it.
You haven't spoken to ittruthfully and then moved on.

(47:42):
So well, where I'm at with it isBrad, just like.
If you're not happy, it'sbecause you have some insecurity
about your plan, maybe, and sostep up your game, get better,
work harder, be a better drummerand, they're fine.
It's just there's a, degree ofvariability that everybody
likes, right?
There's four, four basic needs,right?
Some degree of certainty, somedegree of uncertainty, some

(48:05):
degree of significance andconnection.
Those are those four base needsthat.
Everybody feels differently, butgenerally there's some balance
that they feel.
And so it's like, wheneveryou're, I mean, it's the same,
to be honest with you, it's thesame for me when I play with
people and it's somebody who'snew and it's just Oh, that feels
great.
It's like you can createsomething with somebody

(48:27):
different and there's thatdegree of novelty to it.
Yeah.
And it feels good.
But then there's also thatdegree of comfort when.
When we've got Brad back therethat you just have this
knowingness of whoa Everything'sgonna go like it does when
Brad's here because it's Brad.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(48:47):
So then that's that it's It's acertain level of certainty and
knowing that oh But it's Bradand I've been that guy, I've
been the guy on a few gigsrecently where I'm subbing in
and I'm subbing in and I can seeeveryone's lighting up and it's
just Oh yeah, this guy does whathe's doing.
Exactly.
And it says hi.
And then I subbed in on thatnext Sunday and it was like a
couple less moments, but stillsome moments of Brad's awesome.

(49:10):
And then by the third Sunday Isubbed with them.
It was like, Oh, it's just Bradagain.
Yeah, he's just back therecrushing it and it's yeah, it's
just a trip how that works.
And I've been on both sides ofthat and it was a growing
experience this morning for me.
And, it's just I S and I sawthem when I left my gig last
night.
It was like, Oh, they're playingHTC.
And I walked by that street andI looked, and I think this added

(49:30):
to it because I saw miles, whois our bass player.
And he's a very, he's an awesomebass player, but he just doesn't
jump around a lot.
He's not a guy that's reallylike into it.
And man, I look in the windowand I see miles just like into
it.
And I'm like, Oh man, he'shaving more fun with him than he
is with me.
And then I wake up to the postand I'm just like, But what's

(49:53):
crazy is that I'm sharing thisnow because this is what I do,
whether it's with you guys or Italked to my wife about it and
it didn't really bother me thatmuch, but the little bit that
it, reared its little head, Ihave to address that I have to
be like what is that?
Like what?

(50:13):
Oh, like what?
Why are you feeling insecure?
Like you don't need to these areyour boys.
They were just at your houseyesterday.
It's all good.
This is fine.
Yeah.
And then I was like, happy for'em, and I'm like, oh dude, I'm
so glad because they'vestruggled with good drummers.
They've struggled to get some,so when they found me, it was
like the right way to, the rightway to look at it is, it's like
a degree of freedom.
And with confidence now it's oh,if I need to go do something.

(50:36):
I got a guy and so that's how Iwould approach it and be, like
to whoever it is.
Be like, dude, sounds likeeverything went great.
If there's something that in thefuture, I'm going to be out.
Let's hit him up.
And so it's just it gives you.
And I want him.
Yeah.
Sorry to interrupt.
No, I was just going to say atsome point you're going to level

(50:56):
up, man.
You're going to keep on levelingup because I believe anyways,
that, that music is like you canplateau for a while if you're
not intentional about it.
But then at some point, likethere is that next venue, there
is that next gig where it's notlike you're going to outgrow
perhaps that.
Maybe that's what it is.

(51:16):
Like you, you outgrow that venueor what, whatever it may be.
And then it's set up wherethere's somebody that's going to
take your place.
But that's the, it's a weirdthing, but like our like lead
worship pastor or whatever, he'syou're replaceable.
He's you are replaceable as amusician.

(51:38):
You got to know this, but thatdoesn't mean that you're also
not invaluable in what you'redoing.
And it's just there's adifferent place that maybe you
move into and Like i'll be thesame way like I would like to be
the guy at Anoka, But now i'mlike, I think i'd rather be the

(51:59):
guy at minneapolis, you know Youjust said that tied in I had to
say this real quick you sorrythe power of to the power of
team Yeah, you sent that theother day what you said you're
like, oh that's gonna make yougo to the next level Why is that
gonna make me go to the nextlevel?
You It makes you go to the nextlevel because people will do
more.

(52:19):
For others than they will do forthemselves, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
The secret to wealth andhappiness is to become a team
player.
You can't get mad at the guy.
You were, you, a lot of guys arelike, don't put a better drummer
on your gig because he'll takeyour gig.
Like I never think that way.
But when I was like faced withit, I just had to deal with what
that actually took.

(52:39):
Yeah.
I mean, think about it this waytoo.
It's if you're gone, do you wantsomebody to His body was like
weaker than you and then bringseveryone down.
Or do you want someone who canactually hold their own?
And the rest of the band's okay,thankfully Brad's not here, but
thankfully we've got someone whocan pull their weight because by
default and by default, byaccident, by complete accident

(53:01):
or coincidence, or maybe it'snot a coincidence, I'm helping
this dude who it was his first.
Broadway gig.
If I remember back to my firstBroadway gig, that was like a
big deal.
That was like a big deal for me.
And by me being out, that'sfunny how God works by me being
out.
It gave him the opportunity toplay honky tonk main.

(53:22):
I mean, what a great experiencefor your first gig to be.
I mean, he's going to have arude awakening when he goes
plays Rippy side room next week,maybe he won't, maybe he'll be a
main stage guy for the rest ofhis life, but probably not.
Like you're not going to be on amain stage every single night.
Some nights you're going to haveto fill your.
on Thursday, I'm going to playRippy side room with Sammy Ray.
It's not I love her, but it'snot, Tootsie's roof with Hunter

(53:47):
and the guys.
Like it's just a different gig.
It doesn't pay as well.
And, it's just differentmusically.
So you're saying all this stuff.
It just gets me excited aboutwhat you guys got going on.
Preston, I feel like I, I don'tknow if you, we're coming up on
an hour here, but, I wasanticipating saying a couple

(54:09):
things and just shutting up, andthen I was like, this feels like
it turned into ReclaimingMichael Part 2.
But what do you got for us, man?
Any thoughts in closing or maybenot in closing?
I don't know, depending on whatyou say.
Yeah I'm just almost in lost inthought listening to you guys
tonight.

(54:31):
I, really don't have much to,add, so to speak, No, it's fine.
I just was scariest.
I I mean, it was just like, thisstarts off.
I'm just, Preston is be short.
Preston is, I'm gonna speak forPreston right now.
Okay.
Can you speak for me then?
No, I'm kidding.
Tell me what I'm thinking, but Iwanna say, but I wanna say

(54:52):
something about, you right now.
Preston's I see you growing,like I see you looking better.
I feel like you've been likehealthier.
You've been looking better.
Obviously what you've been doingis working.
You may not see it.
So I want to tell you, I see itand you're playing and you're

(55:14):
just, you're confidence on stageand stuff.
I felt like we had an energy onSunday.
Yeah, that we had not had yet.
It felt like this is the rodeolike we've been trying to
cultivate the rodeo for so longand we had never really achieved
it.
And a lot of that just comesdown to what I don't know,
whatever part we all bring tothe table.
But I think you brought a lot tothat when I was in the

(55:36):
beginning, I was like, hey, Gooutside because that band I was
with did it and work you guyswere outside.
We drew a crowd in there I meanit was just I see you growing
And I see you getting a beatyou're knowing songs better and
like songs that you maybe didn'tknow before and I just I feel
more comfortable, playing withyou, you feel more solid.

(55:57):
And Michael Austin asked, causeyou were saying, Hey, could I
Hey, maybe I could play with youguys one more time.
Or that'd be cool.
I brought you up in aconversation to him and I was
just like, yeah.
And he goes, how's his guitarplaying?
Is he is he, I said, man, he'sway better than he used to be.
Like he's growing.
And so maybe there'll be a shotat some point to come play with
us.
I told him, I go just for fun.
If one of these Gillies gigs, ifWes is out and we have a backup

(56:19):
guy, but.
I was like, even if we had twoguitars it might be super cool
to just free Wes up a little bitto play more.
Anyways.
Oh, yeah.
Just good stuff, man.
I see you growing and my momsaid something about you the
other day, just Preston's one ofyour good friends, huh?
I was like, yeah, he's probablyone of my best friends at this
point.
He's always here for me.
I can always talk to him.

(56:40):
And I love that we have justdifferent personalities and
sometimes I'm a little selfconscious about being the talker
all the time, but you're therefor me and you're a good
listener.
And I just can't tell you howmuch I appreciate having you in
my life, and thank you, buddy.
Yeah, I, agree.

(57:01):
I feel the exact same way aboutyou.
I mean, Not to be all gay andsappy at the end of this, but
you know, it's it just is, it'slike as we get older just, you
get those friends and stuff thatit's I don't know how to explain
it.
It's I've been talking with thisguy, I'm going to tie this into

(57:24):
the not so lame thing and intoNashville in general instead,
because I've been, I met thisguy Forrest at one of the
meetups or whatever that they doon Tuesdays.
And like I met him that night.
I think I know Forrest.
He's like new to town.
He like does guitar teaching andstuff.

(57:45):
And a couple, remember thatweekend when I had the guys all
over and I invited you?
It was like a couple weeks back.
I told him, I was like, Hey, ifyou want to come on, I'm having
a bunch of dads over.
Come on out.
And he came out and hung outtill two in the morning.
He's a sober guy too.
That's cool.
And he's just like real sweet.
He's like a phenomenal guitarplayer, but he's like trying to

(58:07):
get into the Broadway thing likeI am.
And he is, I guess, had a couplegigs and had a he was playing
with Ali the other day.
Ali Sealey.
Yes.
And I guess the one that I hadon my yes, and I guess he got to
the gig and he's very upfrontfrom what he tells me he's going
to be very, upfront about sayingthese are the songs I know I'm

(58:28):
green.
And I guess halfway through thegig, they had to call another
guitar player to come in andjust help hold it down because
he was struggling.
And then, this Who's the girlCindy that runs the Not So Lame
page with Sarah?
I don't know.

(58:49):
Cindy Sands.
Yeah.
Yeah, she's really in the backback now, but we can go into a
whole conversation about thatoff the show, but yeah.
But there was this big post on,that they were putting in like,
all these people were liketalking shit about Forrest, like
indirectly, and it was justlike, it was just like, I'm

(59:10):
like, what are you fuckingpeople doing?
Like this, what is this?
This town is and I think aboutpeople like you that I have in
my corner, that it's justthere's.
When you find people that likereally have your backs and I've
been talking to four sounds likedude Like do not worry about any
of this shit Like it'll all blowover like you're a good guy and
a good guitar player like don'tworry about this and it's like

(59:32):
There's these people in lifethat are just wanting to like
bowl people over because theyfeel like shit I guess I don't
and I don't understand any ofit, but I'm tying it back to the
fact that it's like I love thatyou have my back and that you
think I'm growing and I haveyours too.
And it's same with you, Michael.
I mean, I know we don't playmusic together and we don't live
anywhere near each other, butit's yeah, the fact that we have

(59:55):
each other to lean on, to talkto, to.
Boost each other up.
It's we're very fortunate all ofus to have each other.
You see now Why I've tried sohard to protect you.
Yes, it was I was doingeverything I could to protect
you from that experience Yes,having you as ready as you

(01:00:15):
possibly could be to avoid that.
Yes, and that's that not thatwas You're right with Forrest.
It's he needs to go throughthat, and it's gonna be his way
of being humbled.
But I wanted you to avoid thatif you could, because it's a
pitfall that's gonna slow youdown.
Logan Hatcher went through it.
Logan will tell you about hisfirst experience.
That's something everyone whoprobably is talking smack had

(01:00:36):
that same situation.
Cause you can't prepare enoughfor your first Broadway gig.
To some extent.
Some people are just naturallygood at that, I guess, to some
extent.
But it's there takes some timeswhere you're just fucking
falling on your face.
And it's Remember that you guyswere all there at one point as
well.
And that's what was veryfrustrating to see.
We're just, I just wanted to getout.

(01:00:57):
They knew who they hired.
Okay.
I don't know if you saw a postthat I answered.
I rarely chime in on stuff, butI chimed in on Vicky Nova's
post.
And, she was like, I had thisperson.
And if you don't know the songs,maybe that was.
No, that was probably adifferent gig.
I don't, and I said, you knowwho you hire.
I was like you hired, I said,this is why you don't hire
people directly off of not solame gig finder.
I'm like, if you do know whatyou're hiring, if you're in a

(01:01:20):
pinch and you hire somebody, youcan't expect them to know
everything.
It's like it, the get referralsand recommendations for somebody
and put in the work it takes toget a good player.
Don't take the easy road, put apost on not selling gift gig
finder, and then go crying aboutit when they're not exactly what
you wanted.
Yeah, it's come on and so I getreal riled up about this So

(01:01:44):
anyway, we could have a wholenother podcast on that.
Yeah, we should start one, dudeit sounds yeah, I'd be like
because when you think about itlike when you think about it a
lot of what's happening youknow, it sounds like it's just
expectations management, right?

(01:02:04):
And it's nearly impossible whenyou are playing with the new,
like a musician that you'venever played with, there's never
going to be like perfectchemistry.
You can be master your craft.
At least I believe you can bemaster of your craft, but like

(01:02:26):
not having played and you couldhave all played the same songs,
but just not played themtogether.
And not have that sort oftightness and cohesion that
makes you feel good about it.
You couple that with someanxiety, like someone who's
relatively newer.
And yeah no spirituality.
I don't think a lot of thesepeople really even have God in

(01:02:48):
their life.
You're going to crumble is whatI mean.
Because you're going to berelying on what you're my guys.
I have to go pretty soon.
You're my, I'm dying.
But you only have that context,that same limited context of It
comes back to the exact samething.
It's you have an idea of whatyou want in a guitar player.

(01:03:11):
And that idea is based onsomebody else that you've played
with a million times.
And you're like this persondoesn't line up to that.
This person doesn't play thelick that way.
They don't start the song likeas confidently, or they didn't
nail that transition, or they'renot as good in front of people.
Whatever it is, right?
It's just judge, But youcompress things down to.

(01:03:34):
An idea of what you want.
And then when it doesn't meetthat, like expectation or
predicted outcome, let down,yeah, you're let down.
And it's okay this causes chaosand the outcome of, and that's
another one of the, one of themain concepts of that book user
illusion is that when we'recompressing things down, we're

(01:03:55):
trying to reduce entropy.
We're trying to reduce chaos,but in doing so, Sometimes we
create it and that's, yeah.
And you know what you do in thatsituation?
I just thought, okay, so what isthe solution?
If you, if this person has, youplay the songs that he knows,
exactly.
I was just going to say, lookover at him and go, Hey man what
do you know?
Yeah, what are you good at?

(01:04:17):
Let's let's do that.
Yeah What are you good atprobably gonna be a rough one
like that was a rough song man,what are you good at?
I just heard a guy tell me astory the other night my bass
player miles He's I remember wewere talking about some of our
first gigs that like went reallybad and he was saying that
Nobody knew any of the songsthey were all like pretty new to
broadway and they all were juston they all happened to Not know

(01:04:39):
a lot And somehow they all endedup inexperienced on a Rippy's
main gig on the same gig.
Typical thing that can happen atTootsies because they throw
bands together and they don'talways know.
And people will talk a game andsay they know things.
You do have to stretch the Yes.
You do, not lie, but you gottaembellish a little bit how much
or else no one's gonna hire you.

(01:04:59):
So you kinda You get into thisthing.
And so they were like, yeah, weended up just doing a blues jam
for three hours.
And it's can you imagine a bluesjam on Broadway?
Everyone wants to hear what theywant to hear.
And they're just playing like 12bar blues for three hours.
Fucking, yeah.
Oh no.
Just mumbling.
People would leave.
Yeah.

(01:05:21):
If a jam band goes there I saw aband the other night.
It was just like, yeah, like ajam band.
Can't like, just, they'reawesome, but they're just, it's
just not the right fit.
Like crowd's gonna be like.
What?
I want to hear Chattahoochee.
You don't know Chattahoochee?
Yes, exactly.
So it's not quite, I know whatyou mean.
It's a trip, man.
I want to do I think inhindsight, Preston and Michael I

(01:05:42):
want to do my own music podcast.
Yeah.
62.
Episode 62.
This was a bit of a tangentcity.
We were all over the place, butfind some good friends that you
can chat with that have yourback always.
And your life will be prettygoddamn good.
That's about all I have to say,boys.

(01:06:07):
We'll see you guys next time.
For a.