Ep. 77 with Sara Schultz: Moms, Marketing, And The Power To Pivot

Episode Transcript
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Kelly (00:10):
Welcome everybody to Reclaiming Your Hue, where we
are dedicated to empoweringwomen to embrace and amplify
their inherent brilliance.
Our mission is to inspiremothers and entrepreneurs to
unlock their full potential andradiate their true selves.
I'm your host, Kelly Kirk, andeach week my goal is to bring to

(00:30):
you glorious guests as well assolo episodes.
So let's dive in.
Hi, Sarah.
Hi.
Thank you so much for havingme.
You're so welcome.
This is fun.
We haven't even started yet.
I know, and we're alreadyhaving a great time.
We're gonna get into the meatand potatoes.
Do you know?
I just love when we have thisexperience of like, gosh, how is

(00:52):
it that we haven't totally metjust based off of mutual
connections or the amount oftime that we may have been
connected on social media of allthings?
Just so I love social media, Ireally do.
And this is what we had beentalking about too.
It's like we've been connectedfor a while now.

(01:12):
And so before we dive into morestuff, would you like to share
how it is that you and I areconnected?

Sara (01:22):
Yeah, yeah.
I I'm with you.
I love social media, and I Ispecifically really enjoy
Instagram because Instagram hasactually brought me some of my
favorite people in real life.
Which is so cool.
I have incredible colleagues,turned friends, turned business

(01:48):
partners, turned besties thatInstagram really helped make
connections over.
And I know that that's noteveryone's story with social
media.
So I feel so grateful.
Totally that's how I have foundwhat could be a very and is a
volatile, tumultuous place forsome is like just this beautiful

(02:10):
thing for me in my world.
And I I'm lucky.

Kelly (02:13):
I would say it's like a catch 22, right?
You know, and and I'll justspeak on a on a personal note
about this is like I understandthe importance of social media
very much, but I also do thislike, but what's enough for for

(02:35):
the amount of time that you'respending on it?
And um, you know, for myhusband and I being business
partners together, like we viewour social platforms as like the
validation for our clientsfinding us either through
website or referrals.
Like the social, like Instagramand LinkedIn are our validation

(02:58):
points.

Sara (02:59):
I like to call it gut check.
Yes.
I have a lot of clients whowell, sorry, I never answered
our first question.
I just went into how great Ithought Instagram was.
That is really how we connectedfirst was through Instagram,
through mutual friends we bothhave in real life, mutual

(03:20):
acquaintances, at least that weboth have in real life.
And then it was quick to umlike see that oh wow, we are
similar in how we approachbusiness and um we dress the
same, we're both in denim, weboth have this like love of
pink.
I mean, I just want to live inthis podcast studio, please.

(03:43):
Thank you.
Um so yeah, it was a quick yeswhen you reached out asking if I
would be here today.
So thank you so much for havingme.

Kelly (03:52):
Well, I want to tell you something.

Sara (03:53):
Tell me.

Kelly (03:54):
You were on the short list initially to be on the
podcast.
Oh my god.
And then it just took mebecause I didn't, I wasn't quite
sure how to approach it.
And then I remember, you know,to the listeners right now, one
of the mutual people that weknow is this fantastic, let me
say it again, fantasticvideographer slash photographer

(04:18):
by the name of Kaylee Lemoyne.
Drop her information into theshow notes.
Yes.
Um, but I remember gettingtogether with her earlier this
summer, and she was like, Kell,I can connect you with Sarah.
And I was like, no, it's fine.
I'll do it.
I just had to kind of likebuild up my confidence to be

(04:39):
able to approach you and dothat.
Oh my god, it seems so silly.
Like now I'm going, oh my God,Kelly, like look at Sarah.
She's she's incredible.
She no, not even that.
Just like the approachability,like, you know, I think that
this is something interestingthat we can talk about too.
It's just like thatapproachability on on social,

(04:59):
right?
Like it's it's a it's a smallerum how do I want to put this?
I don't know if you'refollowing my like drift right
now, but like in approachingsomebody, there shouldn't be as
much of that intimidation factorthat there is because what's
the worst that could happen?

(05:20):
They say no.

Sara (05:21):
Yeah, exactly.
I fully agree with where you'regoing here.
Shoot the shot, really.
Unfortunately, we have seenthough, people being in real
life not who we perceive them tobe online.
Right.
And so there's this level offear that can happen where

(05:42):
you're like, is she really who Ithink she's going to be?
Whether that's me, you know, oranyone you're cold DMing or
meeting or whatever that lookslike, whatever you're pitching
or asking, or even just sayinghi.

Kelly (05:55):
Yeah.

Sara (05:55):
And I genuinely love that.
I love when people want to askme questions or slide into my
DMs or are interested aboutcontent that I put out there,
whatever that is.
And then I obviously can hold aboundary if it feels not the
right fit or whatever, right?
Because there's other thingsthat can happen online that get
really weird really fast, andyou're just like not interested,

(06:17):
delete, block, go bye-bye.
But the right fit people, I'mjust like, oh my gosh, my DMs
are absolutely open for thattype of exchange because I have
had such beautiful relationshipsand experiences and
opportunities born from that.
So I totally understand why youmight feel hesitant in that.
Yeah.

(06:37):
And I hope that we can findmore realness and more actual
connection born in places likethat.

Kelly (06:47):
I think of authenticity.
Yes.
And if it's one thing thatreally is sort of like that
resounding arch for youspecifically, is just how
authentic you are in yourapproach to social media.
Thank you for saying that.
You're welcome.
You see that emphasized in howyou're posting and how it

(07:10):
relates to being a mom, whichwill kind of that'll be our
segue into talking about thattoo.
But then even like how you showup in stories as well and other
podcasts as well, too.

Sara (07:22):
Thank you so much for saying that.
I talk to my clients a lotabout the importance of that.
I teach on this model that yourbusiness needs to be anchored
in you, your brand, as separatefrom you, even if it's a
personal brand, and your dreamyclient.
And the Venn diagram of thosethree things coming together is

(07:44):
where the real magic gets tohappen because you're thinking
of not just yourself, but you'realso not just thinking about
your dreamy client.
And then you're allowing todiscern from Kelly, the human
versus how the brand needs toshow up, or say or the human
versus how the brand needs toshow up, how the business needs

(08:08):
to show up.
And I feel for a whileauthenticity got this bad rap.
We were like, oh, we're allwe're over authenticity.
And I just I think beingauthentic is we can't stop.

Kelly (08:23):
Right.

Sara (08:23):
We have to continue leading with genuine conviction,
beliefs, values of ourindividual human, layer what
those look like for the businessbecause they're not going to be
the same.
And then that is how you get toshow up in a way that feels

(08:46):
good for you.
Because if it doesn't feel goodfor you, you're going to stop
doing it.
And any of us trying to runbusinesses, we're also doing a
million and a half other things.
The list is long, and thenecessity of marketing is a
non-negotiable.

Kelly (09:01):
Totally.

Sara (09:02):
So if we can make it feel authentic, if we can make it
feel genuine, if we can make iteven a little bit fun, we're
going to be far more likely todo that.
And so for me, just being likea little unhinged, a little just
who I am.
Sometimes I'm going to show upin the full face of makeup, and
sometimes my hair is going to bea rat's nest on the side of my
head because that is myhumanness.
I'm going to do it.
And not every brand should showup that way.

(09:23):
Yeah.
But that works, that works forme and my brand and how I want
to show up.
So I appreciate you sharingthat because it feels very um
easy is not the right, rightword because anything business
related is not easy, but there'ssome ease in that for me.
There's some effortlessness inthat.

(09:44):
And that's one thing I reallyencourage my clients to find for
them.
That's what we work ontogether.
Totally.
Totally.
One of many things.
But there's beauty in that.

Kelly (09:54):
Let's take a step backwards.
And then we are gonna have abeautiful opportunity to kind of
bring this all full circle towhat you're speaking to right
now.
So I would love for you toshare with the listeners what
came first for you.
Was it motherhood or was itentrepreneurship?

Sara (10:11):
It was entrepreneurship, full blast.
And when I found out I waspregnant with my son, and I've
not been shy about this before.
So I think I could probably, ifpeople are curious, there's
other podcast episodes of metalking about my journey to
motherhood.
Abel was not on the radar.

(10:33):
Oh.
And I was devastated.

Kelly (10:36):
Oh.

Sara (10:37):
I started sobbing.
The first thing I took thatpregnancy test, I started
sobbing.
And my husband was veryempathetic.
And um, you know, what are youthinking?
And the first words I saidwere, There was so much more I
wanted to do before this.

Kelly (10:55):
Oh, yeah.
This is raw, this is real.
I told you.
This is raw.
This is real.

Sara (11:02):
Yeah.
And it took a while for me to,I've got so many goosebumps just
going like revisiting this.
It took me a really long timeto feel good at it.
And sorry, it took me a reallylong time to feel good about it,
about being pregnant, aboutapproaching motherhood.
I thought extremely hard aboutwhat I wanted, where I wanted to

(11:26):
go, what I wanted my life tolook like.
How could this integrate withmy business?
I was already running abusiness at that time, but it
still felt very fresh and youngand a little bit fragile.
I hadn't found my legs yet.
And I'm a very independent,very motivated human.

Kelly (11:44):
You don't say.

Sara (11:46):
You wouldn't have guessed.
And so the thought of a tetherto have to consider in a way
that absolutely I knew ifstepping into motherhood was
what I was going to do, I knew Iwas going to do it 110%.

(12:08):
I was going to commit.
None of those things was Iconcerned about.
I was concerned about whatwould happen to me as a human
and what would happen to mypersonal goals, which were very

(12:28):
associated with my business.
And that was earth shattering,fall on the floor, sob a lot,
don't know how to process,sharing with the closest circle,
not quite with joy, which alsowas hard because then other
people are having a hard timewith understanding that.

Kelly (12:48):
For sure.

Sara (12:50):
And spoiler, I'm obsessed.
I love it, but that was a hardseason.
That was challenging for sure.

Kelly (12:57):
I am curious.
This thought just popped intomy head.
Was it was it in like watchingother individuals who had
already had children and justseeing shifts that were
happening to them that that ishow we're like that those
emotions were coming through?

(13:18):
Talk to me a little bit moreabout where that may have come
from.

Sara (13:25):
That's a fascinating question.
I maybe subconsciously had someconcerns related to that.
I think that I was more soexperiencing, I'm lucky, I have
a lot of extremely strong, um,very beautiful women in my life,

(13:50):
in my family, in my close groupof friends who are just they're
all good at whatever it is theytry to do.

Kelly (13:58):
Yeah.

Sara (13:59):
The women in my family are strong and independent on both
of my mom's and my dad's side ofthe family, my close
girlfriends who at the time evensome had kids, like they're all
were nailing it.
They were doing such a goodjob.
The dedication and investmentinto what the women around me
with children I could see feltlike, oh, of course, that's how

(14:22):
I'm gonna do it too.
Like that was modeled to me.
Being a good mom was modeled tome on many fronts.

Kelly (14:29):
Amazing.

Sara (14:30):
I feel right.
I feel so lucky.
I feel so grateful that thatwas my experience.
I think, though, what wasfeeling challenging was
understanding the reality thatliterally everything was about
to change in a way that I wasn'tdriving.
It wasn't on my timeline.

(14:51):
I wasn't mentally there.
And I had kind of justenvisioned this we're ready,
let's try to have a family.
Yeah.
And we had never even had, weknew that kids were on the
radar.
We had already been married.
My husband and I had beenmarried for over five years at
that point.
So it's like we weren'tnewlyweds, like we had been

(15:14):
together forever, and we assumedthat that was just in the our
near future, but I was just soconcerned that I would not be
able to effectively reach my mygoals and be the mom I knew that
I would demand of myself.

Kelly (15:32):
Okay.
This is so good, and it's Iappreciate your rawness and the
real real behind it because it'stough.
Like, this is the whole purposeof this conversation and this
podcast in itself is to bringabout awareness of you're not

(15:53):
alone in the boat with a lot ofthese very like it's sort of
like those the the depths ofbeing a mother and the depths of
being a business owner, andthese emotions that are evoked
when certain circumstances comeupon us or happen for us.

(16:14):
And this was something that washappening for you, right?
And I I wholeheartedly relatewith what you're speaking to,
wholeheartedly.
I mean, we knew that we like wegot engaged, I told you before
we hit record a lot of thebackstory of how Maddie came to

(16:34):
fruition.
We knew that this was going tohappen.
It was an eventuality, but itwas a surprise in and itself,
too.
And at that time, being in themortgage industry, what was
being required of us as mortgagelenders, and I know that we
also have another mutualconnection in the mortgage

(16:55):
industry, too, who's been on thepodcast.
It's tough.
So unless you're settingborders, boundaries, and you've
got the tools and the resourcesand the SOPs and all of that
stuff, it's gonna be reallytough.
And then add on the other layerof family, it becomes very

(17:16):
challenging.
I was not fully prepared forall of that.

Sara (17:22):
Yeah.

Kelly (17:23):
And so that was the reason this podcast even started
because I was like, Why arewomen doing it?
Uh-huh.
And I'm seeing like the AllisonLarsons of the world just knock
it out of the park and but thenalso have their own, you know,
everyone's got their shit, so tospeak.
And so I'm going, my headliterally felt like the

(17:44):
exorcist, like just spinning,spinning, spinning.

Sara (17:46):
Like, and here's a little quick tie back.
We talk about social media asthis beautiful thing.
Well, it's also just one littlepiece of the pie that for some
reason our brains have decidedwe're seeing other humans' full
pictures, which isn't true.
So then we are almost comparingourselves on purpose or not, to

(18:07):
unrealistic circumstances.
Because even if you thinksomeone's, you know, on stories
all day long, like those storiesare each 30 to 60 seconds.
So even if they post 20 in aday, which feels extreme, right?
Like, oh my gosh, look at allthose little checks at the top
of their stories.
That is like maybe 20 minutesmax of their 24 hours.

Kelly (18:29):
Totally.

Sara (18:30):
And we trick ourselves into thinking, my gosh, she got
the kids out of the house, shedid this workout, she got ready,
she spent time with her kids,she did the volunteer activity,
then she did the pickup line,she closed a deal, she made
dinner.
Like, yeah, we didn't see thecomplete meltdowns in between or
the support from the nanny orinsert thing here, right?
But we've tricked ourselvesinto thinking, oh, she's got it,

(18:53):
I don't, and then insertwhatever your feelings are from
there.
I'm not good enough, or she'sbetter than me, or whatever,
right?
It's so easy to fall for that.

Kelly (19:02):
Yeah.
I am curious if you have beenvictim to the comparison.
Because I mean, I'll be thefirst to raise my hand in this
one-on-one conversation and go,that was also a component to
those emotions that I wasfeeling.
I'll be vulnerable about that.
That comparison was just at anall-time high until I realized,

(19:27):
hey, you're running your ownrace here, sister.
But it took a long time to getto that point.

Sara (19:36):
I felt that a lot more in my business than with my babies.
And same.
Right?
And I I don't know how old youare, but I feel like I can't.
I just turned four.
Oh, you're dead! Happybirthday! I'm turning 39 next
week.
So we're in like perfect,perfect company here.

(19:58):
So I think because I I don'twant to lead with because I had
kids when I was a little older,because whatever.
I'm like, we're fertile,beautiful young goddess women.
We're not past our prime.

Kelly (20:08):
Hey, I remember like getting this like geriatric,
like verbiage in like during theultrasound, but then also they
were like, by the way, you lookreally amazing.
And I was like, Yeah, thankyou, because like, can we not
lead with that?

Sara (20:26):
Of course, seriously.
Both of my pregnancies werealso geriatric, high risk.

Kelly (20:31):
Yeah.

Sara (20:32):
I just I roll, I cannot with any of that language.
And I think because I wasn'tsome 20-year-old little sweet
thing that hadn't experiencedlife or even advocating for
myself on any front, by the timeit was mom world for me, I

(20:53):
didn't feel too comparison-y onthat side.
But I started my business whenI was far younger.
Okay.
And I think business ownership,entrepreneurship is the best
life lesson, the best prep forparenthood, the best when you
get beat up, you gotta get rightback on those feet.

(21:15):
When you fall down, like youcan't stay there, you gotta get
back up a lot.
Exactly.
So it's those lessons, I think,that truly helped prepare me
for at least some of theconcepts of motherhood:
resiliency, adaptability,flexibility, losing control.
I don't get to control as muchas I would like on either front.

(21:38):
And so the comparison trap andimposter syndrome, those
concepts were much more commonin my 20s as I was trying to get
my business off the ground.

Kelly (21:48):
Okay.

Sara (21:49):
And I think those learnings really helped me not
feel that way.

Kelly (21:56):
Beautiful.

Sara (21:57):
At least this far in motherhood.
Because I'm still new tomotherhood.
I'm yeah, you know, Abel's fiveand a half.
I got a journey.
I'm at the beginning.
Right.
So um, who knows what's tocome?
But I haven't found too muchcomparison there.
I think that there's somethingso beautiful in owning these are
the pieces of being a mom I'mfantastic at, and here's the

(22:18):
things that I'm not great at.
And I can celebrate that youyou are gonna be great at your
things and not feel threatenedby that and celebrate you for
that.
And I just wish that was theattitude of women everywhere.
And it's I don't think thatthat doesn't happen by our
choice.
I think we've been a littleconditioned and programmed to

(22:38):
function in this way.
Yes, and we are now just kindof breaking out of that where
we're not feeling threatened by,we're not mean girling like we
once were.

Kelly (22:48):
Like the crab in the bucket type of mentality.
It this it's it's funny.
My husband and I have talkedmany a times about this.
He's like, you women,sometimes.
I tell you what, he's like, thefact of the matter is, I mean,
I you look smoking cutie, but II know you're not dressing nice

(23:09):
like that for me.
You are just like, but I am, Iam.
I'm like, yeah, but you know,there are some of these like
tough circumstances that we'restill finding ourselves in, and
I think it's a little bitdifferent here in the Midwest.

(23:29):
You do a fair amount oftraveling for for business, and
so I have found this to be morecommon outside of the Midwest
than here in the Midwest, andand then just like through the
lens that I see through socialmedia as well, but to your

(23:50):
point, back to this like wholemean girl mentality.
I'm like, just be kind.
And that's like also a facet ofthis podcast, and going you're
beautiful no matter what shadeyou're in, just celebrate it and
understand that the storiesthat you're hearing throughout

(24:12):
this podcast, one of them isgonna resonate with you.
And you're gonna be able tolink arms with that particular
story and go, that resonateswith me.
I'm gonna hold tight to thatone or I'm gonna connect with
Sarah because you know, gosh, Ifelt the same exact way when I,
you know, had been building thisbusiness for years and years

(24:34):
and years, and then all of asudden, shoot, I found out I was
pregnant and I was not in thetimeline that I was expecting.
Yeah.
So let's kind of go back tothat though.
I love this podcast.
We do get a little tangentialsometimes, but it's all very
beautiful and it all comes fullcircle.
But so Abel.
Abel right.
Abel is the oldest.

(24:55):
Crosby is so Abel is on theradar now.
We got him.
And let's let's sort of pick upwhere we left off.
Yeah.

Sara (25:07):
I well, here's I think what else is super fascinating
is Abel was born, Abel was dueApril 1st of 2020, which was
just about two weeks afterlockdown for COVID happened.
Uh-huh.
I know the like that reactionthrow up a little bit in our
mouths collectively.

(25:27):
Um, and so there was a ton offear at that time around, you
know, the pandemic and safehealthcare access, and if even
my husband could be there withme, and we were hearing horror
stories coming out of New York,the city, um, women laboring

(25:49):
alone.
I mean, it was just there wasso much terror happening.
And he was just about two weekslate, 12 days late, which was
beautiful actually, because Ithink everyone kind of calmed
down just a little bit that itdidn't feel quite as tumultuous.
But I share all of that becausemy business had to pivot

(26:12):
because of COVID, becauseeverything pivoted.
Right.
And motherhood looked, earlymotherhood looked completely
different than anything I everwould have imagined.
And because of all of that, weended up keeping him home with
us significantly longer than Ihad ever thought I would keep a

(26:32):
kid at home.

Kelly (26:34):
Yeah.

Sara (26:35):
And what a beautiful surprise that was.
I assumed that I'd put him indaycare and I would just sit at
my desk and I would focus fromnine to five and then pick him
up because that is what everyonedoes, isn't it?
Like, isn't that what you dowhen you have a kid and you have
a job?
Yeah.
And I never would have, notnever, but I I question if I

(26:59):
really would have challengedmyself to solve for what I
learned my desire to be, whichis spend as many moments with my
little humans as possible.
And this is coming from a womanwho wasn't even sure.
I assumed, again, we'd havekids, but it was so far off of
my radar that I was like, well,maybe it won't happen and maybe

(27:21):
that's okay.
Like I wasn't the, I want to bea mom my whole life.
That wasn't my story.
So for me to all of a sudden belike, whoa, I love this.
I'm having so much fun.
COVID was actually verypostpartum in COVID, let me
clarify, was actually verybeautiful because it was just

(27:43):
me, my husband, and my baby.
And we all turned into a little24-hour unit.
Abel would wake up, my husbandwould do the diaper, bring him
over to feed, we would stay uptogether, my husband would put
him back down, we would naptogether during the day.
I mean, it was just like themost John Mayer was playing all
the time.
We ate and played games in bed.
It was just like thisbeautiful, special.

(28:05):
I loved my postpartum.
And it would not have been thatway if the entire earth hadn't
have stopped.

Kelly (28:14):
It was like a uh it forced everybody to stop.
But in you know, in thiscircumstance, it forced you to
stop, but then also understandwhat was the pivot gonna look
like for the business.

Sara (28:28):
Yes, too.
And I was able to at that timeI was very transitioning from
freelance to um, or maybe Ishould say small team to agency
model where I could offer morecreative services.
So I was still doing verycomparable scopes of work, but

(28:51):
how it was operating was verydifferent.
So at that time it was mostlyme doing all of it, and I had
some admin support, and then Ihad some like junior level
support and I'd toss projects.
Hey, can you help me do this orwhatever that looked like?
Sure.

Kelly (29:05):
And can I can I just stop you for a second?
Because I think I don't want toglaze over this part about
talking about business andscaling and stuff.
Can we talk about it?
Yeah, please.
Please.
I I'm curious about what thatmodel really looked like for you

(29:25):
in terms of like, okay, you hadyour admin, but then you had a
couple of junior people on.
Yeah.
And were they can like sort oflike on a consulting basis?

Sara (29:35):
Contractors, proper contractors.
Okay.
Admin was retainer, so amonthly fee for an agreed scope
of work.
Sure.
And then project basedcontractors at an agreed upon
hourly rate that I would veryregularly throw work to.

Kelly (29:51):
Okay.

Sara (29:52):
The because incoming projects, so branding and web
design was the core of this atthis point.
Um, and it was a personalbrand, Sarah Schultz.co at the
time.
Okay.
Um, I was really touchingend-to-end most of all the
projects.
So doing the visual identitydesign.

(30:13):
At that point, we didn't layerin a lot of strategy or
messaging.
I was doing most of the webdesign and development, doing an
awful lot of YouTubing, anawful lot of Googling.
You know, YouTube Academy,Google, my degree is from the
University of Google.
Just kidding, I do actuallyhave a degree, but um, it
doesn't really matter for whatI'm doing.

(30:35):
Um and so I learned thatquickly, with the right support,
owning the stuff I'm not goodat has always been easy for me
because I also don't like it.
I don't like not being good atsomething.

Kelly (30:52):
Yeah.

Sara (30:52):
So it was easy for me to offload because I was like,
well, I don't like doing thisanyway.
So yes, please feel free to dothose portions of my business.
For me, it was um organization.
So, you know, being efficientin my calendar, having a
well-organized email system,having client folders and
onboarding and a lot of thoseoperation things were
challenging for me.

(31:13):
And I'm good enough atcommunication that I could
manage.
So no one was complaining.
None of my clients were upset,but it was not operating
efficiently, it was not helpingwith productivity.
And it, you know, thoseexamples are just all, I mean,
profit sucks.

unknown (31:29):
Yeah.

Sara (31:29):
Just sucks the profitability right out of the
bottom line of the business.
Both cash and time, my time.
Yes.
And I really, at that moment,when I was easing back, thinking
about taking clients back on,because we had at that point
kind of planned a pause.
I had known when I was going tobe stopping client work and
when I would start client workagain.

(31:50):
Um, obviously that lookeddifferent because of COVID, and
lots of people changed theirminds on things because there
was just so much uncertainty.
But that business model helpedme without having stable cash
flow, still find support forgrowing the business.

Kelly (32:13):
Amazing.

Sara (32:14):
And I was able to do that while keeping Abel home.
Wow.
And that was the first like,oh, you've unlocked something
here.
We're gonna keep this up.

Kelly (32:30):
Yes, we're gonna keep this up.
Yes.

Sara (32:33):
Because I'm obsessed with my kids.
I love my kids.
I I miss them when I'm not withthem, and don't we all?
But I maybe, and you know what?
If you don't, that's okay.
Sometimes we like our timeaway.
I love my time away.
Yeah, but I knew in kind ofthose moments, like, why aren't
more people doing business likethis?

Kelly (32:54):
Yeah.

Sara (32:54):
Why aren't we structuring our lives like this?
Because I'm I very stronglyassociate as a business owner,
I'm very tied to that version ofme as an identifier.
But the business allows me mylife.

(33:15):
Yeah.
My kids are my life, my friendsand my family are my life.
And so I knew, okay, cool.
If I can really figure out away to truly do what I love in
my job, in my business, and letthat let me do the rest of the
stuff I want to do more of, likethat's the ultimate cheat code.

(33:35):
Like that's the hack.

Kelly (33:36):
Totally.

Sara (33:37):
And so I started sprinting towards that.

Kelly (33:39):
And what I appreciate too about how you are operating
your business and then showingup on social media is you're
very much going, Hey, watch asI'm doing this.
It if I can do it, you can doit.
A thousand percent.
That's what I mean.
I think that, and and I fallinto this thought process myself

(34:02):
too, Sarah, where I go, I can'teven imagine trying to do work
at home while having Maddietotton around.

Sara (34:13):
They're when they're older, it's harder.
Remember, at this time, Abelprobably wasn't even rolling
over.
When they get mobile, oh, it'sa different story.
So I will own that.
Yeah.
And we'll talk about anotherpivot where like that just
didn't work and I had to bloweverything up.
So we'll get there.
Okay.

unknown (34:30):
Okay.

Kelly (34:30):
And I do think it let's just kind of paint the picture
for the individuals listeningright now, that it is probably
dependent also on what type ofindustry you're in.
So like being in mortgage, andI had I was coming off like the

(34:53):
very tail end of my maternityleave, like I was staring down
the barrel of a gun, basically,is what it felt like.
And had a conversation with mybranch manager.
She was like, Are you gonna beready?
And it was sort of like, I needyou to be ready because I need
to be done.
Like I can't manage both of theat the same time.
Yeah.
And that pressure sucks.

(35:13):
Yeah.
The very next day, I am going,I need to take this phone call.
I need to take this mortgageapplication.
Maddie's over in the otherroom.
I'm on the phone with thisindividual, and Maddie starts
crying in the other room.
And I'm like, I know that.
And you're, I mean, you're likejust it's been weeks, right?

(35:33):
Since you just had your baby,and you're like, everything is
tingling in your body, andyou're like, I've got I just
need, and then I need to, andand I literally felt like my
brain toggling back and forthlike that.
It's awful.
That feeling is awful.
It is.
So I I just want to let thelisteners know that yes, it is
doable, but to your pointoriginally, how productive and

(35:59):
how well are your SOPs in place?
Systems operate, you know, allthe operations, the procedures.
Agree.
When you have that and you haveyour your for lack of better
words, like time blocking inplace, that can be a reality.
It really can.

Sara (36:16):
And that I'll I'll fast track you because I think this
is relevant.
I learned in those moments withAbel at home, still mostly not
movable.
And then when he got a littleolder, my mom would come over
two days a week to help.
And I did find that I was ableto manage workload, client load,

(36:41):
being present as a mom.
That was feeling good.
Sure.
And I could see that mycapacity, I couldn't do all the
business things anymore.
I couldn't just do thebranding.
I couldn't just be the only onedoing the websites.
Um, I think at this time wewere probably taking on our
first retainer clients for somesocial media and some marketing

(37:02):
things.
And so I started shifting fromgrowth mode to scale mode where
I could take on more, notnecessarily have it just be me
executing.
And this is when I shifted intoagency land.
And even that with was workingreally beautifully.

(37:25):
So this is, you know, we're nowstepping into free afternoon,
my creative agency at the heightof that.
I had eight women on my teamwith me.
Wow.
Crosby was born during thattime.
Also an unplanned schedule.
Yeah.
I mean, at that point, when youdo it twice, people look at you
like, do you know how thishappens?
Do you are you forgetting?

(37:47):
I just like to have fun.
I don't know.
Um we uh we did it again.
And um that time I felt myhusband had a really hard time
with Crosby.
So we had like we flipped rollsthere.
He was kind of like, we weregonna go to Europe, we were
gonna do all this other stuff.

(38:07):
Yeah, whoops.
Um so free afternoon was goingreally well with Crosby being
little.
I had this incredible A plusteam of women just um, they ran
the show fully when I was gone.
We didn't offboard any clients,everything kept running.

(38:30):
I took, I think I was fully offfor three months, except for
one client that I was on a veryhigh-ticket retainer for that
felt like very fulfilling workto me.
So, and you know, especially ifyour baby's sleep, Crosby did
not sleep through the night, buthe was a great napper and I
would just wear them and I wouldlog into my calls with my

(38:50):
client and I would just do mystuff and then I'd log off, I'd
be done, and he'd just nap thewhole time.

Kelly (38:54):
That's the best.
Yes.
I remember that with Maddietoo.
Like, and not in thecircumstance of business per se,
but just like getting out andabout and and like, yeah.

Sara (39:05):
Baby wearing is like the ultimate.
I just think that's a I wish itwas more common in the United
States.
I think it's getting verycommon now.
But yeah, even the style wrapsthat I had for my kids, my
parents, my mother-in-law, youknow, they'd be like, we didn't
have anything like this.
Like the kid was on our hip orthe kid was on the floor.
Yeah.
I was like, oh no, this is howmost of the rest of the world

(39:27):
literally continue to operatewith little babies.
They just kind of come alongwith.

Kelly (39:31):
So um I do love that integration though.
You know, it's um well, it'sjust real life.
So I I do want to just sharewith you when you were doing the
podcast with Jordan.

Sara (39:46):
Yeah.

Kelly (39:46):
I I remember listening to one of the episodes, and I I
think it was sort of in the veinof like maternity leave and how
drastically different it ishere.
And it was, I was just like, Iwas, I think I was in my third
trimester with Maddie, and Ijust remember like sobbing in
the car.
Like listening to that.
I'm like, you're right, Sarah.

(40:08):
This is bullshit.
Us Americans, it is bullshit.
Like, why don't we have bettermaternity leave for our women?
Yeah, you know what I mean?
And then also, I started to doa little bit of a deep dive just
into the differences of what umthat lifestyle of becoming a

(40:28):
mom, motherhood looked like hereversus internationally.
And you bring up such afantastic point about the
integration, yeah, which again,full circle, you are speaking so
beautifully to this integrationwith motherhood and how you are
doing your business andoperating in business.

(40:49):
You're going, I just I loveboth so much, and I want to have
it all sort of mix in as muchas humanly possible.
Same for us.
I mean, Sotheby's is alifestyle brand.

Sara (41:03):
Uh-huh.

Kelly (41:04):
And so we are sitting here doing this, like, okay,
well, Joe had already beenincorporating the kids into some
of like the videos and stuff,kind of fun.
And you know, some of it wasprofessional, some of it hasn't
been like a professional video,I should say.
Yeah.
Some of it has just been likehot takes and stuff.
But I'm like, well, wait asecond.

(41:26):
If if this is where ourbusiness is at right now, where
we are going, how do we live thelifestyle?
There has to be some sort ofintegration.

Sara (41:34):
Yes.

Kelly (41:35):
We feel comfortable having them on video and stuff.
Their mother doesn't have aproblem with it either.
Why isn't there some sort offull-on integration?
Because a lot of our dreamyclients are the individuals who
are like move up buyers.
Yes.
Full-on integration.

Sara (41:53):
Yes.

Kelly (41:54):
And it's it's I feel like it was just up on a soap.

Sara (41:58):
Yes, this is great.
Thank you for your TED talktoday.
I I we have control, especiallyas business owners.
We have full control of we whatwe say yes to and what we say
no to.

Kelly (42:13):
Yeah.

Sara (42:13):
And so for whatever reason, I feel like sometimes we
forget that and we get stuck indoing what we think we should
do because we're seeing otherpeople be successful doing it,
or it's just what we know, orwe're not thinking critically,
or like whatever that is.
Yeah.
And, you know, here I am withCrosby, and things are like

(42:34):
mostly working, and the agencyis going really well.
And this is like end of 2023,and I'm feeling pretty good.
And there were nagging moments.
There would be things where,like, I'll never forget this
call.
I would 99.99% of the timepause a client call, even if it
was a sales call.
And if Crosby started crying, Iwould go get him and I'd bring

(42:56):
him on the call.
And I'd really just set thetone.
Like, you're hiring a team ofwomen who are moms, who value
our time.
We don't operate in the nine tofive.
So I was in an industry andprepping because it wasn't
rocket science, and nothing wastime sensitive.
Very different than realestate, very different than
mortgages, right?

Kelly (43:14):
It's yeah, but also we are not.
This isn't surgery.
It's not surgery, life ordeath.

Sara (43:19):
But there's time sensitivity in your industry
that I can absolutely recognizemarketing doesn't have that
pressure.
Sure.

Kelly (43:28):
Yeah.

Sara (43:30):
If you are in like a PR issue, that's a little
different.
But anyway, my work didn't havethis time stamp.
I got to set the timelines, thescopes of work with my clients,
and I let them know right awaywhat to expect, what to expect.
And that, by the way, is youliving your brand out loud.
That was just me living up tomy brand values and following

(43:51):
through with my clients.
So they were never surprisedwhen I was on a call and the
baby would cry, and I'd grab thebaby and I would just bounce
them on my lap and finish up mycall.

unknown (44:00):
Yeah.

Sara (44:00):
Except one time I was on a sales call with an older man,
an older gentleman, like boomerage.
Yeah.
So he wasn't old, but andCrosby started crying.
He woke up from his nap and Ilet him cry because I felt
afraid that I wouldn't closethis deal.
And I felt pressured not bythis human, yeah, but by some

(44:26):
sort of preconceived whatever,that if I brought my son onto
this call in front of this man,he wouldn't hire me.
And I don't know why I feltdesperate for the project.
That it was not a dreamyclient.
It wasn't a fit.

Kelly (44:43):
Interesting.

Sara (44:44):
And Crosby cried for probably 30 minutes.
And I will never forget how rotI got off the call as fast as I
can.
Of course, the call went over.
Of course, I didn't feelcomfortable holding my
boundaries and protecting mytime.
I closed the deal, I roll, butI ran.
I ran and I got Crosby and Ijust started sobbing because I

(45:06):
made the wrong choice.
I knew I made the wrong choice.
And so there was these, therewere rubs like that, or like I'd
be at the park with bothkiddos.
And this is like four o'clock,very reasonable time to go to
the park with the kids after ahair quotes work day.
And I would be checking myphone to see if client approvals
had come in, or if feedback hadcome in, or if sign-offs had

(45:27):
come in, or if the team.
And so it was never these likeloud problematic moments.
Sure.
But I was getting distracted inthe areas I was unwilling to
continue to be distracted.
And I share that because toyour point earlier, we're not

(45:49):
always in a situation where wehave the luxury.
My words, not your words, butthis is what you were alluding
to a little bit at least, ofhaving a full-time integration
naturally.
Sure.
And we get to choose what wewant to do or not to do with our
time and with our businesses.

(46:09):
And I ended up truly having toblow things up with free
afternoon in a way that Iwasn't, again, planning.
I wasn't driving.
We've got some life themeshere.

Kelly (46:24):
I know.
And it isn't it.

Sara (46:27):
Figuring out, okay, how do I rewrite this exactly how I
want it to be written that feelsexactly how I need it to be to
be as fulfilling of my entiredesire as perfectly as possible.

(46:50):
Because I was unwilling to bedistracted at the playground.
I was unwilling to let my kidcry.
I was even unwilling to putmyself in situations where I
would have to fight to not haveto do that.
I was like, I don't even wantthat on the table any longer.

Kelly (47:05):
Right.
This is a really perfect, Iwould say it's an ideal
opportunity to just talk aboutthe failures.
Failures, I'm air quoting,right?
Like failures or perceived umsetbacks, speed bumps, however
you want to phrase it.
How critical they actually are.

(47:26):
Oh yeah.
Like we need to have themhappen because that's the only
way that we're gonna learn.
Like our brains are just that'sjust how it like we're
otherwise gonna sit there inlike the safe, comfortable spot
and continue to do this hamsterwheel thing.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Until all of a sudden you go,um, that didn't feel right.

(47:48):
And I literally, as you weretalking through that, Sarah, I
was like, Oh, I bet that didn'tfeel good at all.
And and then you continue toshare, and you're like, Yeah,
this is this is what ended uphappening, you know, like I that
was that moment.

Sara (48:00):
Yeah, that was that moment for me.
And sometimes it's a lot oflittle moments, right?
Because the agency still ranquite fruitfully after that.
And I just, you know, I waslike, Well, I'm never making
that mistake again.

Kelly (48:11):
Yeah.

Sara (48:12):
And I didn't, I never ever did that again.
And um, and you know, now thekids are bigger, I don't have an
option, they just barge intothe room and there they are in
the call.

Kelly (48:21):
So um, but you've set the expectation and you have set
that the border and the boundarywith your clients.
I mean, they have that fullunderstanding of who they are
signing on with.
It's Sarah and it's Sarah'sagency, and this is women-owned,
and these are other motherstoo.

(48:43):
And so, you know, gear up orget out.

Sara (48:46):
Yeah, honestly.
And that's one of the biggestthings with my clients now that
I encourage them to do when theythink about what it means to
actually activate their brandsinternally within the culture of
their businesses.
Yeah.
What are you setting yourcontracts up for?
Are you allowing room for anine o'clock call?

(49:08):
Or are you being really damnclear that nope, I will get back
to you within 24 to 48 hours orlike whatever those are, so
that you can build somethingthat feels really good for you.
Because it's just not worth itif it doesn't feel good.
What are we even doing thisfor?

Kelly (49:22):
I know.
I I I couldn't agree more.
Talk to me about um a littlebit more about was there a
specific moment, and you mayhave already spoken to this,
which is kind of why I'm I'mbringing this up.
Has there been a specific darkmoment that you can speak to

(49:43):
where you were like, that wasthe that was like that was rock
bottom for me?

Sara (49:48):
Yeah, it was 2024.
Okay.
It was all of it.
No, so the end of 2023, myhusband gets a phone call from
his brother and sharing he wasdiagnosed with stage three colon
cancer.
He's okay.
I always forget to plant that.
When I tell the story,everyone's like, oh my gosh,
what he's fine.

(50:08):
He does not have cancer anylonger.
We're like, you're like, wait,what is she about to share?
Um, and we immediately, withoutany discussion, decided that we
were going to move to Detroitand be present and be air quotes

(50:29):
helpful if we could be.
They had just, mybrother-in-law and sister-in-law
had just had their second baby,like right around the time of
diagnosis.
And their kids, their my nieceis about five months younger
than Abel, and our nephew isjust about a year younger than
Crosby.
So kids are relatively in thesame age, and we're close with

(50:50):
the family.
And um, and it's so it likeinstantly, I in my recollection
of this, we just like startedpacking boxes after that phone
call.
It was just like, okay, it'stime to we're moving.

Kelly (51:02):
That is I just I want to pause for a second and
acknowledge.
I usually ask the question ofyou as the guest, like what has
your support, your villagelooked like, but this is such a
cool moment of you were that ina in a pretty critical moment,

(51:25):
and hats off to you.
Not that you need the kudos orthe recognition for that, but I
I don't know how often thatwould actually be the case.

Sara (51:36):
Frankly, I don't think you're wrong.
I think we're crazy, especiallylooking back, especially now
that it's no longer 2024.
Um, no, thank you for sayingthat.
It just it truly wasn't even aquestion.
Um, will my husband was able towork remotely and I built a

(52:03):
business for life.
Yeah.
And so this was the call.
And if I'm gonna walk the walk,I like I just got it was just
okay, we're gonna make thiswork.

Kelly (52:15):
Yeah.

Sara (52:15):
At the time Abel was in a Spanish immersion program, so he
had transitioned into um fullfull-time care and he loved it.
Uh, we and we loved having himthere.
So we pulled him out of school.
We called it school.
Crosby was still at home withme at the time he had turned,
just turned one, and we moved inFebruary of 2024.
I was projected to do mylargest year in business ever.

(52:40):
And again, I really stronglyassociate my identity with my
business, and financial successis very important to me.
Independent financial successis something that is just very,
very important to me.
I have owned for most of mybusiness career, business

(53:03):
ownership career, that I want tobe extremely wealthy.
I'm not afraid to say that.
I know what I want to use mydollars for.

Kelly (53:09):
Yeah.

Sara (53:10):
Um, and I have found comfort in owning and being
prepared to say that.
And I have been buildingbusiness to allow for that to
happen.
So that's where I speak to thedifference of business growth
and business scalability.
Yes.
Two very different things.
Um, and so I was on track tohave this like relatively

(53:33):
quickly from turning freeafternoon into this like
full-blown agency model togetting there.

Kelly (53:39):
Yeah.

Sara (53:40):
And I'm on uh the edge of my chair with it.
And then we moved to Detroit.
Um, I don't know if you know alot about Detroit, but Detroit
is a very cool city.

Kelly (53:52):
I do.
I think so too.

Sara (53:54):
It is still recovering.

Kelly (53:55):
Yes.

Sara (53:56):
And so um not in the.

Kelly (54:00):
They've done a good, yes, they've done a fantastic job of
the like renovation or the umwhat's the like the Renaissance.
It's having this Renaissance,and there totally is.

Sara (54:13):
It is getting better and the city as a whole is still red
for crime.
You will be in the mostbeautiful neighborhood.
I try so hard to speak no illwill on Detroit.
I think Detroit has just beentrashed verbally by so many for
so long.
That is not my experience withDetroit.

(54:34):
And the fact of the matter is,you will be in one of the most
beautiful blocks in the city,beautiful house, house that's
been maintained.
They didn't have this like teardown rebuild thing in like the
50s, the 80s, the 90s, like wesee in other areas.
And they still, Detroit stillhas these beautiful historic

(54:57):
homes that maintain the charm.
So you'll be in some of thewealthiest neighborhoods.
Beautiful home, beautiful home,literally a home with no roof.
Who knows who's living inthere?
There's activity of some sort,you don't know what it is, and
then another beautiful home.
It's so it's not even likeneighborhood by neighborhood
there or block by block.
It is house by house.

Kelly (55:16):
That's wild.

Sara (55:17):
That is something that my husband and I have never
personally lived in.
Will grew up in the suburbsoutside of the city, and we were
living right in the city.
So we had a lot of fear.
Um and probably after livingthere, I it's it feels silly

(55:39):
now, but the reality then was Ihad no nervous system relaxation
for an insane amount of time.
And survival was there was nothriving at all in our at our
time in Detroit.
And the fast track of thisstory is um we decided to keep

(56:04):
the boys home full-time againbecause I was so uncomfortable.
I just didn't know where toeven put them, and I was
uncomfortable at the thought ofnot knowing.
I just, it was a year.
We were only gonna stay for ayear.
It felt like a bad decision.
Abel was very sad to leave hisschool.
I get that kids are resilient,but we knew we were coming back
to Minnesota.

(56:24):
I was like, I'm not gonna putAbel into another program that
he falls in love with.
I'm not gonna feeluncomfortable driving him to and
from school.
Like, we wouldn't even go forwalks in our neighborhood.
We would drive to other placesto go and walk.
And we weren't even living.
Our home was beautiful.
I loved our house that werented.

Kelly (56:39):
High alert.
High time.

Sara (56:41):
It was a lot.
And again, like I said, lookingback, some of it feels silly
now, but in the moment, I justdidn't know.

Kelly (56:50):
It was your mama bear coming out.
You know what I mean?
Like big time.
Yeah.
I mean, I've had a lot of mamabear moments that I look back on
now and I was like, I didn'treally need to totally, right?

Sara (57:02):
You're just like, oh my gosh.
And then by the end of usliving there, we were walking
around the block comfortably andwe knew the neighbors and we
knew the non-neighbors thatwould kind of loiter on the
corner and we'd still smile andsay hi to them too.
Right?
Like there was some They were,they were, they were fine.
They were fine, right?
But it wasn't what I knew.
It wasn't what I wascomfortable with, it wasn't what
I had ever been exposed tobefore.

(57:23):
So having them home in thisbusiness model where I was on
the scaling was happening, butthere was still a stopper there
because I still was veryintegrated in a lot of parts of
the work, but I was working withvery high-ticket clients.
So these clients wereinvesting.
I had multiple clients investmultiple six figures with us.

(57:45):
So this isn't just like a$5,000 scope of work and I'm
hammering through a ton.
You these are white.

Kelly (57:51):
Felt like a lot was on the line.

Sara (57:53):
A lot was on the line.
And but I had some contractsthat just dissolved that I
really wasn't planning ondissolving.
But again, thank goodness,because I ended up getting to
the point where I couldn'thandle it any longer.
Sure.
I what I thought was gonna workfor our family, for my
immediately, my immediate familyunit wasn't working.

(58:14):
My husband, because of his job,wasn't able to, we weren't able
to toggle the boys like Ithought we would be able to.

Kelly (58:23):
Yeah.

Sara (58:24):
And I have this ultimate flexibility, and I was the one
that was feeling this intensediscomfort, and I was the one
that was really like, well, Iwant to keep the boys home with
me.
I think my husband would havefound a way to be comfortable if
we decided to put themsomeplace, but I was really
uncomfortable with that.
Yeah.
And so I terminated contracts, Iterminated my team, I told

(58:45):
clients, like, this is the end.
I stopped taking people on.

Kelly (58:49):
You burned the ships.

Sara (58:50):
I burned it.
I burned it.
And there was this.
So why this felt dark?
Because it was also beautiful.
I mean, I got to spend timewith my niece and nephew, my
sister-in-law, who I love somuch.
Like what a gift.

(59:12):
Again, I wouldn't have probablydone that unless I was forced
to do that because I wouldn'thave thought of it as being
something in the realm ofreality.

Kelly (59:20):
Yeah.

Sara (59:22):
And doing that was so beautiful.
And 2024 was like an ego deathafter ego death after ego death.

Kelly (59:32):
I remember you speaking to this and whether it was like,
I don't know exactly at whatpoint in 2024 you you did speak
to this because I feel likeeverything sort of blends at
this point.

Sara (59:46):
Right, right.

Kelly (59:46):
But I do remember you being vulnerable and going, I
yeah, I I'm not I'm not hittingmy goals.
And I don't know if that was onthe front end of burning the
ships or if that was on the backend of burning those ships.

Sara (01:00:00):
For you, but I bet it was last summer when it was clear
that it wasn't gonna happen.

Kelly (01:00:05):
Yeah.

Sara (01:00:06):
What's wild to me in all of this is I was still a
multi-six figure business comingout of that year, which I'm
proud of.

Kelly (01:00:15):
Sarah, I love this about you.

Sara (01:00:17):
I wasn't profitable.
That was my firstnon-profitable year.

Kelly (01:00:20):
Okay.

Sara (01:00:22):
So yay me for still being air quote successful, reaching a
goal that many people don't.

Kelly (01:00:31):
Yeah.

Sara (01:00:32):
And also it was my first year lacking profitability ever
since I started my businessbecause I was um the early part
of the year, it took me a whileto terminate my contracts with
my team.
I was like, we'll figure thisout, we'll figure this out.
And most of them were on somesort of retainers that I was

(01:00:52):
like, it'll get better, it'llget better.
And then I just was like, fuckit.
Like it's not getting, I haveto, I'm going to literally
drown.
I'm going to die.
I've never had gray hairs.
Like I am trying to recoverfrom it.

Kelly (01:01:06):
By the way, I love that you rock the gray hairs.
Oh, yeah, they're just out ofthe girlfriend.
It's yeah, you're gonna giggleat me.
But I, you know, it wasliterally in like me turning 39
to this point where I started tosee a couple, and my
hairstylist would be like, Areyou joking me?
Like, I have women who come inand they're like 35 and they

(01:01:29):
have all of these gray hairslike chill out.
You're like, but no, but no,yeah, it's starting, they're
starting to come up more now.
But I'm like, I just think ofSarah, like Sarah's rocking it
and she looks beautiful.
Why can't I do it?

Sara (01:01:42):
Well, I joke that I always wanted to be blonde, and so
like me just being a silver foxwill be as close to blonde as
I'll ever get.
And then I also joke because mybabies are blonde as can be,
especially Crosby is so, so, soblonde.
So I'm like, I mismanifested.
I wanted that for me, and Iaccidentally manifested that for
the next generation.

Kelly (01:02:00):
Like, okay, very, very off topic for just a hot second.
But do you have individualscome up to your, like, come and
meet you for the first time andgo, well, where the heck does
the blonde hair come from?
Yeah.
All the time.
Like that happens with Maddie.
And then Joe, if he's there, hegoes, I used to be like blonde,
and so it's an eventuality thatshe's gonna have brown hair.

(01:02:21):
I prayed for blue eye, brownhair daughter, and I know I'm
gonna get that because she's gotblue eyes.
She's close, she can't not havebrown hair.
We're both like it's gonnahappen.

Sara (01:02:35):
Yeah, it's gonna happen.

Kelly (01:02:36):
And she's a girl.

Sara (01:02:36):
That is so funny.
So I always joke that I wanted,I wanted blonde hair, so I
went.
I mean, the 90s was hard forsomeone that has dark curly
hair.
Like it was a rough time.
I also wasn't like heroin chiclike everyone was in all of the
ads.
We didn't have a lot of bodypositivity campaigns happening
in the 90s.
It was it's so true.
It was really hard.

(01:02:57):
So true.
Did not be that.
So, of course, I did all thebottle blonde and the bleaching,
and it was awful and it neverlooked good, and clearly it
wasn't meant to be.
Um, but yeah, I always wantedto be blonde, and I I had hoped
my mom has light eyes, my dadhas dark eyes.
I had hoped that we would havea blue-eyed baby.
My grandma is Iranian, and soshe, all of her grandkids, uh my

(01:03:20):
dad is two, and I'm half halfPersian, but she had always
wanted a blue-eyed baby, andreally it was the likelihood
what it was like gonna fall onus because my husband has blue
eyes.
And I said, Okay, well, atleast you got your blonde-haired
grandchild.
Yes, not the blue eyes, theyhave brown eyes and blonde hair,
and like my very tanable skin.

Kelly (01:03:39):
There you go.

Sara (01:03:40):
So they're cute little summer babies.

Kelly (01:03:42):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Oh, so 20, so 2024 really hadbeen that deep dark valley for
you.

Sara (01:03:53):
It was really dark, it was super hard.
I was feeling very unsupportedby my husband at the time
because I think he was, youknow, going through his own
terrifying things, and weweren't sure what was gonna
happen with my brother-in-law,so that was stress.
Like, we signed up for stress,like we knew this wasn't gonna
be a vacation.
Um, and so it it was, it wasvery stressful.

(01:04:13):
And then all of a sudden, mehaving projected a fantastic
business year, not only was theyear not what I thought it was
going to be, it wasn'tprofitable.
And all of a sudden, I hadstopped my income.
I'm not paying myself in thatsituation because I'm just
trying to puzzle piecestogether.
You're just trying to keep uhlike everything, you're trying
to keep the head above water.

(01:04:34):
Just attempting my best.
And I knew it just wasn't gonnawork.
I wanted to just be with mykids and to keep them as safe
and protected, and I wantedstability.
And I knew if it wasn't gonnabe me, it wasn't gonna happen.

Kelly (01:04:50):
Yeah.

Sara (01:04:51):
Because the mom, like I'm mother.
Yeah, what if that's my job?
I am the I am that spiritualguide of the home.
I am the one that sets thefrequency.
If I am calm, my home will becalm.
If I am at peace, my home willbe peaceful.
Mommy was not feeling verypeaceful for most of 2024 and

(01:05:15):
faking her way through that.
And I'm self-aware enough thatI was like, it's gotta give.
I can't, I cannot do this.

Kelly (01:05:25):
I want to talk about ego and ego death.
And then I also want to somehowfind our way back to moms being
moms, and how when we have sortof this inner peace that does

(01:05:45):
it it sort of echoes out justlike this to the rest of the
family.
And so we'll come back to that.
Yeah, I promise.
Don't forget to do that.
I won't.
I'm gonna put a pin in it.
I'll put a pin in it.
But the ego and ego death youfound yourself in this
particular moment of like going,all right, multiple times I've

(01:06:09):
had to just go, nope, I I I haveto like I have to basically
suck it up and just do what Iknow is best.
And it's not what I actuallywant to have to do, but I have
to.
So I would I do want to hear alittle bit more insight from you
in just how you like built thatup to be able to actually do

(01:06:31):
it.

Sara (01:06:32):
Yeah.

Kelly (01:06:32):
And then recognize moving forward that again, I think
about this moment that youshared in earlier parts of this
interview about that that Zoomwith the the older boomer,
right?
And you literally immediatelyafterwards were like, that's not
gonna happen again, right?
And so let's talk about that asit pertains to 2024 and moving

(01:06:57):
through having to work throughyour own ego, which is very
tough.
I mean, it's so tough.

Sara (01:07:04):
So tough.

Kelly (01:07:06):
So let's give insight into working yourself up to this
point of having to make somereally tough decisions.

Sara (01:07:13):
Yeah.

Kelly (01:07:13):
And how you learned moving forward from that.
Yeah.

Sara (01:07:18):
Well, humans are naturally geared to find the path of
least resistance.
We're we're wired that way.
And when we cling and we graspand we hold on to ill-fitting
things, it never ever feelsgood.

(01:07:42):
Or it doesn't work, or it blowsup in our face, or there's pro
like so for me, the resistance,it was just it got to the point
where it was so clear that I hadto get on board with the

(01:08:04):
lesson, with the reality, withwhat the universe was sending
me, with like with Abel, Iwasn't going to become
unpregnant.
That wasn't a choice I wantedto make.
So it was like, you're goingto, and I explored all my
options.
I'm open about that too.

Kelly (01:08:21):
Yeah.

Sara (01:08:22):
I chose what felt right for me in that moment.
And I knew that that meantyou're gonna do it then.
You're not gonna be a half-assmom.
You're gonna do it.
So, like, here you are, you'rea mom now.
You could fight that.
I could have fought that.

(01:08:42):
I could have resented.
I could, right?
I could have insert feelinghere.
But I knew that that was nevergoing to serve.
Here you are.
Get on board.
And I did, right?
And then you do say up or getup.
You literally, you said thatearlier.
I'm like, that's exactly it.
Like, you just I knew that itwas going to be so much worse if

(01:09:09):
I didn't just get my shittogether.
So that has retrospectivelyclearly been an beautiful epic
lesson for a fiercelyindependent person who wants to
control everything.
Guess what, girlfriend?
You get to only control so manythings.

Kelly (01:09:25):
Would you would you consider yourself type A?
No.
Or type A B?
I'm definitely A B.

Sara (01:09:30):
Thank you for recognizing that.

Kelly (01:09:31):
I'm a type A B too.

Sara (01:09:32):
Most, I think probably to like my type Aers, they're very
much like God, Sarah's type Bbecause I just like I'm not
organized naturally.
I can handle, I can like livein chaos.
I immediately notice yourbeautiful home because my home
only ever looks like this when Itry really, really hard.
And like we're having company.
And I because I can function, Idon't love it, but I can
function still.

Kelly (01:09:52):
But Sarah, I mean, like the reality is like, and I'm
just going to, I'm gonna comeright alongside of you in what
we're talking to about like ego,death, and stuff.
This is silly, but this iswhere my ego has had to die in
being like house is clean,dishes put away, and and so on

(01:10:15):
and so forth.
And you noticed the beautifulhouse, thank you.
I want my guests to come into awarm and inviting atmosphere.

Sara (01:10:23):
I sure did.

Kelly (01:10:23):
But I said to you, what did I say?
I said, it's like this untilthe kids are here.
And think about it like howmuch are they?
I mean, Maddie's here 24-7.
Yeah, the boys are here 50% ofthe time.
That means 100% of the timethis house is otherwise pretty
messy.

Sara (01:10:43):
Yeah, right.
And that's and that's another,it is a silly example, but it's
real.
Your choice is to find a way tomaintain it so that you feel
happy and peaceful.

Kelly (01:10:54):
Yes.

Sara (01:10:55):
Hire support, divvy up the workload, have the kids do
chores or have responsibilities.
Check, check, check.

Kelly (01:11:03):
Except I don't hire out yet.
Okay.
We'll get, we're gonna get tothat point as businesses start
to scale, right?
This is just a part ofevaluations of what you need to
do with your business or not dowith your business for that
matter.

Sara (01:11:17):
And then you know that, so you can say, you can let go a
little of that grip and say,it's okay that the laundry never
gets folded and it lives in apile forever until it goes back
into the dirty pile.
I just can't never not in apile.
It's either a clean pile or adirty pile.

Kelly (01:11:32):
This is perfect because I literally just came across, and
I think I might have shared iton my Instagram story about this
guy who's like, I I can I'llgive you therapy in like 30
seconds and I'll save you15,000.
I just literally watched this.
Okay, so I just watched this.
In it, he goes, Um, he talksabout like laundry becoming a
roommate.
Yes.
I was like, uh-huh.

(01:11:52):
I I that has happened.

Sara (01:11:55):
Absolutely.

Kelly (01:11:57):
And so that ways back to you.

Sara (01:12:00):
But you can call that an a little bit of an ego death,
right?
Where you've had to let go, ormaybe this isn't exactly how you
let go, but let's just run withthis example, where you've just
had to let go of that reality.
I think motherhood does thatfor sure.
That's that that didn't quitehave that didn't happen to me in
business ownership.
That more so happened to me inmotherhood.
But the so that pattern wasclearly repeated.

(01:12:23):
So I was like, here I am inDetroit.
It's not looking how I thoughtit was going to look.
I thought I was gonna be ableto continue working.
I thought I would feelcomfortable putting my kids in a
program.
I thought I would have supportin a way that I did not.
Also, I didn't go there forsupport.
Like you said, I signed up tobe supporter.
Yeah.
And certainly not martyringmyself at all, but there's this

(01:12:47):
reality of like, okay, dualshit, here you are.

Kelly (01:12:51):
Well, I'm sure that in you may eventually get to this
point, but this is justsomething that's speaking to me.
It's like, as you're coming into support, it's like, well, how
shitty is that gonna be?
Like, I'm coming in to support,and then all of a sudden I'm
going, but I need help.
Yes, you know what I mean?
Like that was completelyunderstandable.

Sara (01:13:11):
That wasn't the point of that journey, right?
And you know, a lot of internalwithin my family unit
conversations needed to be hadbecause there was probably some
support that could be given in adifferent way to me.
Um, and that's not what washappening.

Kelly (01:13:30):
Yeah.

Sara (01:13:31):
And gripping and white knuckling never were.
And that's when I just waslike, it's done.
And so um I wrapped up theexisting projects, I offloaded
as much as I could.
I terminated all but one of myteam members to help with admin

(01:13:52):
stuff and just keep theoperations going um because I
just was not present.
And I decided the thing I hadalways wanted to do was to build
the group coaching program.
So again, this beautiful birthof something that is the

(01:14:15):
scalable model that lets me haveeverything I want came out of
this trauma moment where Icouldn't have felt less like me
in some ways.
And that is what I ended upspending all of my non-mom hours

(01:14:38):
doing was building what is nowbrandshift method.
And that was born at the diningroom table in Detroit in the
house I loved in theneighborhood I didn't, yes, in a
circumstance of stress and fearand loneliness.
And I had been working on thatprogramming since 2020, but I it

(01:15:06):
was backburnered, backburnered,backburnered, and Detroit was
the catalyst that allowed me toactually have it.

Kelly (01:15:13):
I am like giggling at just all of the metaphors and
stuff here.

Sara (01:15:19):
It's like isn't it insane?

Kelly (01:15:21):
One right after another.
Okay, the first thing thatcomes to mind is like it's like
Phoenix in the ashes.
Wow.
And also you were living in acity that is otherwise known for
being just uh a shitbox, yeah,right?
Yeah, and I'm with you, Sarah.
Like it's not, it isn't, andalso like two things can be

(01:15:45):
true.
Yes, two things can be true,but it's so your story through
2024 is perhaps my favorite.
Ah, it really is because it'sjust like you want to know why,
because honest to goodness, allgood things come from shitty

(01:16:06):
places, yeah.
Like it's yeah.
I mean, really, I've lived itmultiple times.
Okay, so I'm giggling a littlebit because I haven't really
given you a great opportunity toshare like more about the name
of your business.
Shame on me.

(01:16:26):
No, this is great.
So can you share with thelisteners a little bit more
about your business and what,you know, who's your dreamy
client?
Let's talk about that.
Yeah.
Because, you know, I'm sureit's the listeners are like,
I've got an idea.
It's like branding andmarketing and stuff, but let's
let's dive deeper into that.

Sara (01:16:47):
Yeah.
So I had the agency was donefor you.
High-ticket clients would cometo us and we would help
establish their strategy first,what voice their business needed
to have, and then the visualidentity that is attached to
that.
And I, in the evolution of mybusiness, so from just kind of
being the solopreneur to runninga small team to scaling to the

(01:17:09):
agency, I outpriced myself, forbetter or for worse, from the
women that I loved to work with.
They couldn't afford meanymore.
And I knew right away that Ihad two very different business
models, both of which I wasexcited to nurture, except that
one was paying all the bills,and the other was just kind of

(01:17:32):
the little engine that could,because I wasn't giving it time
and attention.
But at the time it was calledbrand branding.

Kelly (01:17:39):
Yeah.

Sara (01:17:40):
And I positioned that as a DIY branding course, but do it
better because I'm gonna helpyou do it.

Kelly (01:17:46):
Yeah.

Sara (01:17:47):
And over, you know, the five years of running that very
casually, what I eventually cameto in 2024 was oh my gosh,
there is so much more thatmostly female founders need to
figure out so that they actuallyget to be successful.
Because we are constantly beingpushed, the 20 hot hooks, or

(01:18:11):
edit like this and it'll work,or go viral.
We're we're pushed bullshit andtruths that only work when
stood up on top of a strongbusiness foundation.

Kelly (01:18:25):
Yes.

Sara (01:18:26):
But none of us know how to build the strong business
foundation.
Exactly.
So none of those other thingsever work.
Yeah, we're solving forsymptoms and not treating the
problem.
Oof.
So good.
And so brand shift method is mysignature group coaching
program, where instead of medoing it for you, I take every

(01:18:49):
single thing I did for myclients at my agency and I teach
female founders who are stillvery hands-on in their business
how to do it for themselves.
And what I love, yes, and whatI love about this is when you
are so because this is where Iwould see gaps over at free

(01:19:10):
afternoon, I would still beworking with very hands-on
founders for the most part.

Kelly (01:19:13):
Yeah.

Sara (01:19:14):
And if at any point they ran into the necessity to evolve
their business, they did notunderstand the strategy enough
innately to strategically shiftwhat needed to be shifted.
And therefore, that investmentwasn't fulfilling its fullest

(01:19:36):
destiny.
I was always proud of our work.
Our work is incredible.

Kelly (01:19:41):
It is.
Well, I just look at what youhave created just for yourself,
and I've dabbled a little bit insome of like the other brands
that you've um helped build aswell.
It's fantastic.

Sara (01:19:54):
Thank you.
I'm proud of what we producedat Free Afternoon, and I have an
insider track of what'shappening with some of those
founders, and I'm like, you'renot executing this right.
You you you clearly aren'tunderstanding, and that's not
your fault.
Right.
And so, brandshift method is myopportunity to one be priced
far more accessibly than theagency ever was.

(01:20:15):
It allows me to scale.
Now I'm one to many.
I can have 50 women on a callwith me.

Kelly (01:20:23):
Yeah.
And so thank you for sayingthat because I literally was
just gonna go, okay, you need totalk a little bit more about
that for the listeners.
Yeah.
Because there's something to belearned here.
If there's somebody who'slistening who knows that their
business could, you know, go ina couple different, they could
it could move in a coupledifferent directions, or they're
exploring, like, I feel likeI've hit the ceiling.

(01:20:45):
You know, like what do I, whatsort of pivot can I make, even
if small, to start to be able tosee more scalability.
Exactly.
And you're speaking to thatright now.

Sara (01:20:55):
Exactly.
So it's a 12-week program, allof the curriculum is waiting for
you.
You check out today, you getaccess to everything.
And then there's a groupcoaching call component where I
am helping you solve yourspecific business's problems.
So nothing is cookie-cutterhere.
This does not build a brand,there are just core things every

(01:21:17):
single business has to donon-negotiable.
My dad was asking me questionsthe other.
He's like, I don't understandhow this isn't industry
specific.
And I'm like, well, becauseevery business needs to have a
brand voice.
Yes.
Every business needs to have aclearly identified dreamy
client.
Every business needs to havecore values and differentiators,
and every business needs toconsider those things as they

(01:21:38):
are conveying their message totheir dreamy client.
Every business needs to decidewhat their offer is.
Every business needs to decidewhat their next product is going
to be.
Every business, right?
It doesn't matter if you're aservice provider, if you're a
solopreneur, if you have aproduct.
This is literally the bareminimum you have to figure out
to do anything else in business.

Kelly (01:22:00):
Otherwise, you are just you're all over the place.

Sara (01:22:03):
You are a house of cards that will collapse.
So guess what happened?
I did burn free afternoon down,technically.
Like if the perfect fit dreamyclient lands in my inbox, I will
bring the team back together.
We did a project like that thisyear, brought the old team back
together.
That's so fun.
It was a blast to be able to dothat again.

Kelly (01:22:23):
Well, what I love about what you're sharing right now is
there weren't any bridges thatwere burned in the process.
It was just like, hey, team,this is I was very honest.
This is where we're at rightnow.
And just because it's no rightnow doesn't mean it's, you know,
not a yes in the future.

Sara (01:22:44):
It was very clear that this isn't what I wanted to have
happen, but this is what thatis what needed to happen to
happen.
And I tried very hard to takevery good care of my team.
I feel confident that theywould say nothing but fantastic
and loving things, and we stillall have great relationships,
and I miss seeing them everyweek, and I miss a lot of that
cadence because businessownership is lonely, and I had

(01:23:06):
this little girl gang that wegot to just hang out, and I felt
very supported and they werevery on board for my mission,
and they were very on board withwhat I was doing, and we were
so well aligned.
Like I can only say fantasticthings about that team that I
had the privilege of leading.

Kelly (01:23:26):
That's incredible.

Sara (01:23:26):
It was, it was, that's part of the reason I felt so sad
was not getting to um spendtime with them and pay them and
help them, right?
Like we were all just doingthings that we loved, which they
still are.
That's not they're not.
Um, but that was a hard thing.
But because I know what I knowand I teach what I teach, this

(01:23:53):
will be my first full-time yearrunning a group coaching
program.
I've already outperformed sixfigures again.
I found a way to keep highfive, double high five.
I uh that's amazing.
The scalability is there.
This is going to be themillion-dollar plus business
model because I, well, I'mpsychotically convicted, so it

(01:24:16):
will be.
And I've actually finally builtsomething that allows for that
to happen while also getting towork with the coolest women who
like I had one of my first callsyesterday for our new group.
We just started another round,and I got to talk to these women

(01:24:36):
about how the reason they choseto do brand shift method with
me and not work with a differentcoach to grow their business is
because they too want to buildsomething that buys them time in
other places.
And so I don't specifically saythis is for moms who but I also
very strategically layermomhood in my core messaging so

(01:24:58):
that the moms can see, hey, youdon't have to let your baby cry
for 30 minutes because you're ina business or in a job that you
don't like.

Kelly (01:25:07):
Do you find that you're working more with people here
locally, or is it just itdoesn't matter because you have
done such a fast fantastic jobbuilding what you have on
socials?

Sara (01:25:20):
Yeah, I most of my clients in the program actively right
now, I would say maybe half arelocal-ish.
Okay, because I do have such agreat incredible community in
the Minneapolis market.
Um, but I had a gal comethrough from Switzerland.
I have a gal from um theDominican Republic.

(01:25:44):
Like they've just found theprogram through the marketing
efforts I teach.

Kelly (01:25:51):
What's really cool though is that you are doing not only
domestically, like workingdomestically, but
internationally too.
Yes, fantastic.
I like wanted to get a map oflike who are I know who can
bring it to putting pins on itlike and start setting goals
around like, ooh, how can I getsomebody from this area in

(01:26:13):
Europe?

Sara (01:26:13):
And like what's so cool to me is one of my whys of wanting
wealth is talking about likethe ripple effect of helping
elsewhere.
My husband and I traveledfull-time for almost three years
just for fun when we wereyounger and more agile and um
like physically agile.
And I saw a lot of verydifferent living circumstances

(01:26:40):
than what we just frankly areabusing the privileges of as
modern-day Americans.
It's wildly disappointing.
If you have seen anythingoutside of the United States,
whoo, talk about privilege.
Um kidding.
It's shocking.
And I just think about like theripple effects of the
communities I am indirectlygetting to impact by helping

(01:27:02):
these women build businessesthat help them generate income
and deliver services in theircommunities or deliver products
in their communities.
Like that ripple effect is justso cool to me.

Kelly (01:27:14):
That is, I would have never thought about it like
that, but you make a veryfantastic point that in the
brilliant ideas that you have asan individual, because I'm
gonna toot your own horn for youright now, and then going and
sharing that and helping thesefemale founders do what they do

(01:27:39):
best, also while beingefficient, while being
profitable, also, like becausethen the your your whole thing
is how can I help you find yourdreamy client?

Sara (01:27:49):
Yeah.

Kelly (01:27:50):
Let's do it.

Sara (01:27:51):
Yeah, exactly.
And everything gets more fun.
So when you are able, one, toanchor in you, your brand, your
dreamy client, like we startedthis episode touching on at
least, you get to fast track tosolving the rest of the problems
of your business, but also youare armed to understand the

(01:28:12):
friction points and thenstrategically pivot.
So I did a very extreme versionof that in 2024 when I was just
like, ugh, okay, freeafternoon, it's just not
working.
And I was smart and strategicenough, because I'm good at what
I do, to keep a veryentertained and very um engaged

(01:28:36):
audience.
I was staying relevant, I wassharing what made sense, I was
bringing them along for theride, and then I was like, oh,
I've got this offer for you.
I can, I can give you somethingnow.
You didn't qualify over here atfree afternoon to not your
fault.

Kelly (01:28:52):
Yeah.

Sara (01:28:53):
But now I have something that you can have that I cannot
wait to give you.
And so my very extreme pivot isthe perfect example of what I
teach in Brain Shift Method,because whether you like it or
not, you are going to need toevolve your business.
Something is gonna happen,whether you want it to or not.

Kelly (01:29:14):
A thousand percent.

Sara (01:29:15):
Mine was Detroit and a choice, but it could be COVID.
Nobody chose that.
It could be the marketcrashing, it could be new
technology being born.
All of these things are alreadyhappening.
It could be you gettingpregnant and you weren't
planning it.
You are going to need tostrategically, well, I want you
to be able to strategically doit.

(01:29:35):
Yeah.
But your business is going tochange whether you want it to or
not.
And so, Brainshift Method, I'mso proud of because not only do
I help them teach how to nailtheir message and connect it
directly to their dreamy clientso that they're winning today,
but I'm also teaching them howto fix the friction that they
will inevitably feel.

(01:29:56):
Six months, seven years,doesn't matter.
And they're just gonna rinse.
And repeat everything theylearned in Brain Shift.

Kelly (01:30:03):
You talked about this, and let's just kind of full
circle moment about theimportance of having a strong
foundation.

Sara (01:30:11):
Exactly.

Kelly (01:30:12):
Whether it's with your business or building a strong
foundation as a mom or having astrong foundation with your
spouse, your extended family, etcetera, et cetera, et cetera.
But the more of a foundationthat you have that's built on
strong core values and you knowall of the things that you dive
into with what you're doing withthe group coaching, the better.

Sara (01:30:37):
Yep.
Because you might weather thestorm, the storm is still gonna
come.
But if you've duct taped andbubblegumed, if you've just been
tossing spaghetti at the wall,if you're trying to solve for,
oh, if I only post more, if mymarketing was better, I wish I

(01:30:59):
had a newsletter, or I wish Iwas more consistent, is very
common.
Yeah.
You are probably just house ofcardsing, and it's gonna all
fall down.
If the foundation is there, youstill are gonna test.
I I I this is the least sexything about marketing, is it

(01:31:22):
still is testing.
There's not a magic ball.
There's way too many variablesin marketing to allow for me to
say this is gonna strike andwork every single time.
So, first of all, don't fallfor that.
If you hear that from anybody,that is a lie.
That's just not true.
For a million reasons we don'thave time to go into today, but
I'm happy to come back and talkabout it.

(01:31:43):
Um but if you at least havethat strong foundation and
understand how that was created,you will be able to course
correct regardless of what getsthrown at you.

Kelly (01:31:56):
Again, it's so good.
I mean, it's it really is.
It's so good, and it justspeaks to all of these other
different parts of life too,because that same thing can
resonate across the board.

Sara (01:32:10):
And the first thing I force my clients to do, the
whole first chapter, if youwill, is all about them as the
individual.
And they're like, oh my gosh,this was therapy.
I didn't know I needed it.
I'm like, yep, well, I knew youneeded it because I'm not in
the business of buildingunsustainable businesses.
I want you to build somethingthat's gonna last.
So we're gonna have to getreally, really real with each
other here.
That's so good.
So that we're actually buildingsomething that's gonna help you

(01:32:31):
go in the direction that youwant to go.
Because guess what?
I was marching towardssomething that I knew wasn't
going to be the model, but I gotsuper excited about the
multi-six figure clients and thebig dollars that were coming
in.
I've never had that much moneyin a bank account before in my
entire life.

Kelly (01:32:49):
But you know what?
I my husband and I talk aboutthis a lot.
I mean, both in the respect ofbeing business owners, but then
also husband and wife.
Like when is enough enough?
Right?
And sometimes you have to havethose moments to understand wow,

(01:33:13):
how that was operating overthere while I was making a
boatload of money.
I was not happy.

Sara (01:33:23):
It wasn't going to be sustainable.
There you go.
I I just it wasn't.
And I knew, and the crazy thingwas is I was still marching
towards it because it wasworking.
And I also knew it wasn't goingto be sustainable.
And that is why I force mydreamy clients to start with the
you portion of that Venndiagram.

(01:33:45):
Because I don't want you towaste an ounce of your time or a
single penny of your dollars inrunning towards something that
is ill-fitted to your lifestyle.
We do not have time to waste.
I need your greatness to getout into the world.

Kelly (01:34:00):
Ain't nobody got time for time for that.
Right?
All right.
I I know that we have just alittle bit more time here, so I
want to try to capitalize on thelittle bit of time that we do
have left.
Um in a nutshell, can you sharewhat has um self-care looked
like for you, Sarah?

Sara (01:34:22):
Lacking.

Kelly (01:34:24):
I don't believe it.
I no, I truly don't.
And here's why I I I callpoo-poo on it because most
people think like self-careneeds to be like I go and get my
nails done, I have to goregularly to get my hair done, I
need this, I need that.
When in actuality, it's like Ican I I operate and function

(01:34:46):
well on six and a half hours ofsleep.
If I can do that, that'sself-care for me.

Sara (01:34:50):
I agree with your mentality around self-care.
I do think I've been doing abad job of honoring what I know
that I need.
So here's what I'm working on.
Maybe that's this is how we canpivot this.
Perfect.
Um, although I do really love aspa day.
I feel like so refreshed comingout of that.
That is like, give me a spaweek, please.

(01:35:11):
Amen.

Kelly (01:35:12):
Hey, husbands who are listening because there are some
husbands that listen.
If you want to know what yourwife, ma, wife wants for
Mother's Day or birthdays, likealways a spa day.
Always a spa day.
I don't want to broad strokeit, but like Sarah and Kelly are
saying, always a spa day.

Sara (01:35:31):
Like, give me eight plus hours in a robe.
I don't even need to get atreatment, but nobody look at
me, nobody talk to me, nobodyprobably mom.
Nobody asked me for a drink,nobody asked me a single
question besides, do you wantyour feet rubbed?
Yes.
That's the only question I wantto get asked.
So want that always works forrejuvenation.
Here's what I'm working onright now.
I'm working on putting reallygood food in my body first thing

(01:35:52):
in the morning.
I am great at not eatingbreakfast early in the morning.
And um, I think I've spent mostof my life actually operating
just fine that way.
And I don't think that wasworking in this phase of my
life.

Kelly (01:36:06):
Yeah.

Sara (01:36:07):
So that amazing, by the way.
It's amazing.
It really is.
I've been prepping smoothies,you know, on Sunday and then
just putting the jar right intothe blender in the morning to
just like help get me likenutrient dense, easy on the
road.
Because I'll prioritize makingfull, delicious, nutritious
meals for everyone else and notme getting to sit down and eat

(01:36:28):
it.
So that is one thing I'm reallyworking on right now.
Um, movement always helps meand is really hard for me to get
back into.
So like I'll do a good sixmonths of being on my Peloton
religiously, and then someone'ssick, or I get sick, and then I
lose it.
It's really hard for me to getback onto routine.
So I'm trying to, I got back onmy bike again this week, and

(01:36:51):
that felt really rewarding andnice.
Um, and then I'm a here's theone self-care that I have not
let go of.
I love my smuddy fairy books.
So what is this?
Acatar, a court of a court ofthorns and roses.
Stop it.
Stop it right now.
Kelly gets her phone off inpreps to send it to Kelly.

(01:37:15):
Wait, wait.
You don't know, like Sarah J.
Mass.
You don't know.
No.
Okay, girlfriend.
Well, send it to me.
This is like Game of Thrones,world building.
Um I'm gonna blow your mindright now.

Kelly (01:37:29):
I have not watched Game of Thrones.

Sara (01:37:30):
That's fine.
Okay.
Um but I do dig like, you know,I always loved Harry Potter.

Kelly (01:37:35):
I was just gonna say, so like yeah.

Sara (01:37:36):
The joke that my best friend and I have, we fit the
basic bitch who read HarryPotter, then read Twilight, then
read Um Hunger Games, then read50 Shades of Grey.
That's when you get a littlenaughty.
And then we stopped reading for20 years until Sarah J.

(01:37:56):
Mass introduced us to Fayemales.

Kelly (01:38:02):
Okay.

Sara (01:38:04):
It's like fantasy romanticy.
Um, but anyone that'slistening, if you want a
recommendation, I can tell youall of my main male character
boyfriends, I can tell you allmy book boyfriends, but it is
brainless, it is fun, um, it islike, well, actually, that some
of the universe building isconfusing, but anyway, um it I I

(01:38:26):
will have I will listen or readis my point.

Kelly (01:38:30):
Yeah.

Sara (01:38:31):
I that is one thing I have consistently done.
I re-picked that up religiouslyin Detroit as like a I need
just something, and I could dothat with audiobooks as I was
doing other things.

Kelly (01:38:43):
Yeah.
Good on you.
I have a very difficult time umlistening to audio anything
while trying to do work.
And I can't do it at the sametime.

Sara (01:38:54):
I would I would do it like while I was doing the dishes.
Okay.
Not like my desktop work.
Okay.
Or if I was like sweeping, Iwould like get a couple, or I
would listen to it before I goto bed and I'll put the timer on
because I almost always fallasleep.
But I'm literally re-listeningto the Aquatara series right
now, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Ihad no clue that happened.
Wait, when did he do that?
Like, so clearly I was onlyhalf paying attention the first

(01:39:14):
time.

Kelly (01:39:15):
Like half dozing off and you thought that you were
catching it.
Which is like kind of funbecause I'm like, oh my gosh,
where did I know that happened?

Sara (01:39:21):
But I I probably have read, I would guess in the last
like 18 months.
I'm probably 50 plus books.
That's incredible.

Kelly (01:39:30):
Both audio and and physical.
Okay.

Sara (01:39:33):
Mostly audio, but yeah.
So fun.
Okay.

Kelly (01:39:37):
But yeah, audio fantasy.
I'll add it to the list.
And then you'll get a text fromme when I get my book, and I'll
be like, hey, Sarah, look,check it out.
Okay.
I'm gonna take a little pivotbecause again, we we have just a
few more minutes, but I wantyou to get up on your soapbox
and talk about the digital age,the technology age that we are
in as it sits now.
AI is taking over, and I knowthat you have spoken to this,

(01:40:00):
but I do think that this wouldbe just a nice little way for us
to kind of like start to landthe plane, so to speak, for the
listeners and get you out ofhere so you can get one of your
children.
Yeah.
But I know that you have a lotof interesting points about
this, and I know that you youhave a soapbox for it too.

Sara (01:40:19):
So go.
I am a big strong believer thattools and technology are can be
our best friends.
They can be our supporters ofus growing fantastic businesses.
And in an era where AI isabsolutely going to take jobs
and is absolutely going todilute uniqueness in especially

(01:40:44):
messaging, we're seeing it now.
You can tell what Chat GPT haswritten.
And that's not going anywhere.

Kelly (01:40:56):
Yeah.

Sara (01:40:57):
But our humanness is what will continue to make us
desirable, special, intriguing,exciting.
Um, I mean, until the modelsget really scary.
But for now, my vote is find away to integrate so that you

(01:41:19):
gain efficiencies, you increaseprofitability, but you have to
do it intelligently.
So here's a this is a literalgreat example of if you don't
have the foundation, it's goingto suck.
If you do not have clarityaround what you should sound
like, you can never promptcheck.
You're never gonna be able toprompt it.
Never.
It will never output somethingthat doesn't sound like a robot

(01:41:41):
because you've given it nothing.
Yes.
And so even when you get sold,like, here are the prompts that
helped me write my best, blah,blah, blah.
If you do not have anestablished brand strategy, your
voice identified, and one ofthe we haven't touched on this,
but your visuals are actuallythe most important part of your
message, but nobody talks aboutthat.
We think message is what yousay, message is also how it

(01:42:03):
looks.

Kelly (01:42:04):
Okay.
Yeah.

Sara (01:42:05):
So we talk a lot about that in Brandshift, but I
digress.
We'll go back to if you do notknow what your message is and
why it is the way it is, and ifyou have not built that on you,
your brand, and your dreamyclient, it doesn't matter if you
have the best, the mostperfect, geniusly well-written,
open AI handed you the bestprompt ever for you to use, it's

(01:42:28):
not going to output.
You have not input the rightinformation for the output to
ever have a chance to work.
And the problem right now isoutput gets to be really high
because we do have these reallycool tools that help us with
efficiency.
But now what you're finding isinconsistency in message, both

(01:42:51):
visuals and voice.
But let's just, if we want tostick on the visuals, or excuse
me, if you want to stick withthe voice right now.
Um, and then the inconsistencyis causing confusion.
And the confusion absolutelydoes not lead to sales.
There's no opportunity to sellto a confused person.
That doesn't work.
You have to have clarity todrive a sale.
And so a lot of misuse of thesetoys tools, toys.

(01:43:14):
I wish they were toys.
Because sometimes they can feellike toys playing, like you're
playing.
Um, it gets a lot more fun whenyou know what you're doing,
I'll tell you that much.
And the output gets to be greatwhen you know what you're
doing.
But a lot of people aremisusing these tools and they're
getting frustrated because it'snot working for them.
And the gap is gonna growbetween the people who have
figured it out.
They're gonna continue to growand scale and make the money and

(01:43:36):
be known.
And then everyone else is gonnabe treading water, barely
figuring it out.

Kelly (01:43:41):
100%.

Sara (01:43:42):
And you're like all of a sudden you're looking at
yourself and you're like, I'mgreat at what I do.
I'm so good at my job.
I am the best deliverer of myproduct, but nobody is paying
attention to you.
Yeah.
And you need welcome to thedigital era where you do not
have a choice but to market.
You have to show up.
You have to sell, you have toknow the difference between the

(01:44:02):
two of those things.
And you have to do itconsistently from top to bottom.

Kelly (01:44:07):
Yes.

Sara (01:44:07):
Externally and internally.

Kelly (01:44:09):
I don't know if you guys can hear the emphasis that
Sarah's giving right now, butshe certainly like almost jumped
out of my like was making herpoints, talking with her hands
and being very like emphasis onthis.

Sara (01:44:25):
It's never been easier to start a business than it is
today.
It's never been cheaper tostart a business than it is
today.
You can bootstrap, you can geta business started for little to
no dollars.
Yes.
You can host a website for free,depending on the platform.
You can use social media forfree.
You can make something for thein the free version of Canva for
a logo, you can send emails forfree.

(01:44:45):
Like there are free, free, freeversions.
So think about that.
Everyone has the opportunity,not everyone, but most people
have the opportunity to start.
The smart ones arestrategically doing it so that
they're the ones that actuallyget listened to.
Because if nobody even knowsyou're there, they can't buy

(01:45:07):
from you.
You could have the bestservice, the best product, the
best insert what you do here.
It doesn't matter if nobodyknows who you are.

Kelly (01:45:14):
A thousand percent.
There you go.
I love it.

Sara (01:45:18):
Mic drop, goodbye.

Kelly (01:45:19):
Mic drive, and we're out.
No, I think that that was thatwas incredible to just kind of
emphasize that.
Well, let's just take forinstance chat GPT, right?
Like that's one of a gazilliondifferent options for AI
purposes, right?
But like it's a tool and it'show you use that tool.

(01:45:43):
It's no different than walkinginto Home Depot, seeing all of
the tools and going, okay, well,I've got this wrench, but I if
I'm not applying it properly inthe work that I need to do, it's
not gonna serve its purpose.

Sara (01:45:57):
Yeah, I don't know how to use a jigsaw, but I I have one.

Kelly (01:46:00):
Right.

Sara (01:46:01):
Like, what am I gonna do with a jigsaw?
I literally don't know.
I don't know how to use it.
I mean it's uncomfortablebecause she doesn't know.

Kelly (01:46:08):
Right.

Sara (01:46:08):
I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know what to do with ajigsaw.
I think it's like, I don'tknow.
That's my point.
We don't know what a jigsaw is.
Yes.
I have one at my house, butlike, am I qualified to use it?
No, I have to like do somefoundational things first before
I grab the damn jigsaw.

Kelly (01:46:21):
Yes.

Sara (01:46:21):
So just because you can have Chat GPT doesn't mean
you're using it well.

Kelly (01:46:25):
I don't know if we could have landed that one home any
more better than we did.
Yeah, right.
It's like very clear.
It is 100%.

Sara (01:46:33):
You know, I just my goal always is to inspire women to
sprint as fast as you possiblycan and is comfortable for you
towards the life that you wantto live.
And I believe very stronglythat the more women that have
autonomy in time and how theyuse their own money, the world

(01:46:55):
gets to be a better place.
That's my like feminist flex.
Yeah, but I do that by teachingwomen how they get to build
profitable, sustainablebusinesses.
And then go do whatever youwant with the money, with the
time.
I don't care what you do atthat point.
But I want you to have thechoice to be able to do that.

(01:47:16):
And too many of us are sittinghere feeling like I'm not worth
investing in myself.
I'm not worth this business,actually.
I don't deserve the time awayfrom my family to figure this
out.
I need to go do all these otherthings first.
When we get stuck in a trap,I'll own it too.
Like I just said, I'm notmoving my body as much, I'm not
feeding myself.
It happens to all of us.

Kelly (01:47:36):
Yes.
And in one of those um bucketsof life.
In the wellness wheel, so tospeak.
Like you when you're pullingtoo much from one of them, it
means that there's another areathat's gonna be lacking.
And how do you try to create uma wheel that can sustain over
time that isn't just like, youknow, I think of like um

(01:48:00):
flintstones, like oh yes, yeah,you know, like they're they're
rock wheels.
Like, unless they smoothed itout as much as possible, I mean
they're gonna be bumping downthe road.

Sara (01:48:09):
Or like my best friend and I talk about pieces of the pie.
The pie never changes sizes,the pieces just start to get a
lot smaller.
Yes.
There's not more pie.
The pie is nine inches.
Yes.
Where are the pieces of the piegoing?
What are the sizes of each ofthose pieces?
And so if I can help you buildsomething that gets you talking

(01:48:33):
to your dreamy clients fasterthan ever, with more ease than
ever, with more clarity, closingthe sales, pricing
appropriately, marketing in away that feels genuine and
authentic, you get to besuccessful.

Kelly (01:48:46):
Yeah.

Sara (01:48:47):
Therefore, I get to be successful.
And again, that ripple effectis so fucking cool to me.
It is.

Kelly (01:48:53):
I just love, I just love, I love what you're doing,
Sarah.
I have so thoroughly enjoyedhow we got connected through
social, finding out about all ofthese mutual connections that
we have.
We're only gonna continue togrow what that mute those mutual
connections are as well.
So that to me is just superthrilling as we agree.

(01:49:15):
Um we're gonna we're gonnaactually land the plane now.

Sara (01:49:18):
We're gonna land the plane.

Kelly (01:49:21):
I would love for you to first share a piece of advice
that you would give a youngerversion of yourself knowing all
that you know now.
It always works out.
And what's a piece of advicethat you would give somebody who
right now, a woman right now,that let's apply it to what you

(01:49:44):
do best, that is they'restruggling.
And like, you know, maybethey're halfway built with that
foundation.
What's one piece of adviceyou'd give them right now?

Sara (01:49:56):
It always works out.

Kelly (01:49:59):
And how can our amazing listeners find you?

Sara (01:50:02):
Well, I'm obsessed with Instagram, so come hang out with
me over there.
I really will respond at HeySarah Schultz.
No H on Sarah.
Um, and my website isheysarahschultz.com.
And all of the information ofwhere else to find me, hopping
on my newsletter, learning moreabout Brainshift Method, all
libs, you know, between thosecore platforms that I just love
to nurture and use.

Kelly (01:50:23):
This has been so fun.

Sara (01:50:24):
I agree.
Kelly, thank you for having me.

Kelly (01:50:26):
You're so welcome.
I'm really grateful to havegotten a little glimpse into the
last couple years of Sarah'smomming, entrepreneurship, being
a mompreneur, and just knockingit out of the park.
So thank you.
I appreciate it so much.
Have a great rest of the day.
You too.
Thank you.
Thanks for listening.
And if you enjoyed this episodeand know of any inspiring mamas

(01:50:47):
who are powerhouseentrepreneurs, please help
connect them with myself and theshow.
It would mean so much if youwould help spread this message,
mission, and vision for othermompreneurs.
It takes 30 seconds to rate andreview, then share this episode
with your friends.
Until the next episode, cheersto reclaiming your hue.

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Ep. 77 with Sara Schultz: Moms, Marketing, And The Power To Pivot

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