I Thought It Was a Jewish Delicatessen (Bonus)

What do engineers get out of working with artists? In a series of talks designed to attract new engineers and artists to the group Experiments in Art and Technology (E.A.T.), engineers Fred Waldhauer and Robby Robbinson discuss how working with artists turned them from “aesthetic primitives” to true collaborators, even if they never quite fit in with the “arty crowd.” Hear how they approached their work in this bonus episode, featuring a longer clip from the archival tape.

Episode Transcript

Announcer (00:00):
This is a Getty Podcast.

Zoe Goldman (00:08):
Hi I’m Zoe, the producer of Recording Artists.
Welcome back for anotherbonus clip from the archive.
This season, season three,featured the stories of three
members of the group Experimentsin Art and Technology.
We focused on RobertRauschenberg, Billy Kluver, and
Fujiko Nakaya to tell a biggerstory of the group’s development
and major projects—from theearly ad-hoc collaborations to

organizing 9 Evenings (00:32):
Theater and Engineering in 1966 to
programming the pavilion atExpo ‘70 in Osaka and beyond.
But the E.A.T. archive containsmaterials from many, many
other artists and engineers.
We listened to these otherinterviews and recorded
lectures in the archive tounderstand the dynamics of this

(00:53):
group and its members, evenif we didn’t end up using the
actual clips in the episodes—Ithink of these kind of like
interviews done “on background.”
This month, I wanted to moveone of these tapes of other
E.A.T. members to the forefront.
This next clip comes from apanel discussion of artists and
engineers held shortly after the9 Evenings performances which

(01:15):
spurred the formation of E.A.T.The panel was organized to help
figure out what exactly artistsand engineers might want from an
organization like E.A.T.—and ofcourse to recruit more members.
In this clip, E.A.T. co-foundingengineer Fred Waldhauer and
fellow engineer Robby Robinsonare answering a question from

(01:36):
the audience about how theyplan to attract engineers
to the group and whether theengineers will be interested
in making art themselves.
Here’s Fred Waldhauerstarting the response:

Fred Waldhauer (01:47):
I’d like Robby [Robinson] to answer that,
and he will, but my experiencehas been that engineers
are aesthetic primitives.
And we don’t need to worryabout the competition.

Robby Robinson (01:59):
Well to that I’d say amen Fred.
The first time I heard the word‘Rauschenberg’ they said they
were going to Rauschenberg’slast May and I thought it
was a Jewish delicatessen.
That’s how much I knewabout artists and art.
[laughter]
From that sort of lowly status,
I had to grow with the artists,and I had to take on something

(02:22):
that was totally foreign to me.
My idea of avant gardewas probably Rubens or
Cezanne, somebody like that.
I will admit I was kind ofstunned in my first approach.
But then the work becomesso fascinatingly exciting

(02:44):
and stimulating, thatmy family thought I was
somewhat of a psychopath.
And I wasn’t too much interestedin talking in terms of art or
meaningful art, I wasn’t tooconcerned with understanding
art, but I was very concernedwith the problems that the

(03:06):
artists had and what we weredoing in the 9 Evenings.
And I found that these weredifferent kinds of problems than
I had met in the laboratory.
And I found that all theother technicians that
were involved in this werejust as excited as I was.
And I didn’t have any notionat that time of what the virus

(03:34):
would really turn out to be.
It’s really a very kindof a saturating thing
when it finally hits you.
I
don’t suspect that therewill be any dearth of,
or any famine, when it comesto engineers, because the

(03:56):
exposure does— I rememberone particular engineer back
at the labs who was invitedto do a particular project.
They mentioned, he said wellI’ll do it, but I don’t want
to go near the artists though.
Art schmart.
I don’t want to knownothing about that,
just let me do my job.
But before he was over, hewas hanging around the 9

(04:18):
Evenings and he wouldn’tgo home and his wife wanted
to know where he was.
He’s a candidate now, you see.
This is the thing—I’m notsaying this is some kind
of universal religionor it takes hold of you.
There are still peopleback at the labs who
think it’s all nonsense.

(04:38):
I’ve been told it’s nonsense.
The
rapport establishes easily,the communication process is
almost charming, and there—I don’t think it ever gets
to the point where engineersare trying to be hip or
travel with an arty crowd.
It’s just that, right now,my feeling is certainly, and

(05:04):
Fred indicated the same thing,I don’t think the problem of
getting engineers interestedis going to be a difficult one.
There’s no realresistance to it.
I came here tonight feeling thatresistance would lay with the
artists, you see, and that’skind of dispelled when you

(05:28):
see a nice group like this.

Goldman (05:31):
My first response after hearing this was that
these guys seem pretty funfor a bunch of engineers.
I’d get dinner with themat Rauschenberg’s Deli.
I love Robby Robinson’sanswer because it gives a
sense of how far apart theworld of the engineers was
from that of the artists, andhow novel and fun it must’ve
been for everyone involved inthese early collaborations.

(05:52):
I also love how openthey seem to be to new
experiences and experiments.
Sure, 9 Evenings involved alot of long, unpaid hours of
frustrating work—and if youwant to hear more about that
check out the episode on RobertRuaschenberg—but at least
they were having a good time!
That’s it for this episode.
I’ll be back withmore clips again soon.

(06:19):
This episode was producedby me, Zoe Goldman, with
audio mixing by Jaime Roque.
Theme music by Bryn Bliska.
Christopher Sprinkleis executive producer.
Learn more about this podcastand all our Getty podcasts at
Getty dot edu slash podcasts.