What could be more beautiful than a laser? (Bonus)

Laser physicist Billy Klüver really loved his lasers. But what divided the beauty of the laser (at least in Klüver’s eyes) from art? As the co-founder of the nonprofit group Experiments in Art and Technology, drawing the line between art and engineering came up a lot. In this bonus episode, we’ll hear Klüver talk about disciplinary boundaries in artist-engineer collaborations, and about his beloved lasers.

Stay tuned for more bonus episodes.

Episode Transcript

Zoe Goldman (00:09):
Hi, I’m Zoe, the producer of Recording
Artists, back again withmore clips from the archive.
You can learn a lot listeningthrough the archival audio.
That’s basically thepremise of this show.
Sometimes, the tapes holdpoignant lessons for us
now—whether it’s lessons forhow to live a creative life
or how we can understandour place in history.

(00:32):
Other times, the lessonsare very specific and less
broadly applicable—likelearning that Billy Klüver,
the laser physicist, wasreally, really into lasers.
He brought them up, like, a lot.
So this week, I’m sharingone of my favorite Klüver
tributes to the laser.

Billy Klüver (00:54):
This question always comes up about
that technology itselfis of course beautiful.
You don't have to do anythingto it to make it more beautiful.
In other words, uh, what couldbe more beautiful than a laser?
A laser light with refractionsand fractions and so on.
The

(01:15):
question is not one aboutbeauty or challenging the
beauty of technology by bringingartists and engineers together.
And if you move the technologyinto the gallery, it's
not going to become art,unless somebody says so.

Goldman (01:31):
Alright—maybe this is a little deeper than
just a tribute to the laser.
In fact, in a few of hislectures, Klüver begins to
address the line between artand non-art, between his work
as an engineer and the workas his artist collaborators.
Here he is again addressingthe blurriness that
comes in partneringartists and engineers:

Klüver (01:53):
There is always the question of what is an
aesthetic decision and whatis a technical decision.
This is a tricky point,and sometimes one
which is very amusing.
Where should the knob sit?
What about the colorof the batteries?
Does it matter?

Goldman (02:12):
This kind of discussion—how do we define
art—becomes heady quickly, whichis one reason we couldn’t fit
these clips into the season.
These are really BIG questions.
And the answer varies a lotfrom artist to artist, person to
person, and project to project.
Klüver doesn’t really answerthis question, either,

(02:35):
at least not directly.
But he alludes to how, inpractice, he has wondered
whether a decision is his tomake, but he has to make it
to move ahead with a project.
On the other side, he talksabout how artists may have
an idea without the knowledgenecessary to make it a reality.

(02:55):
So the practicalities of workingcollaboratively require a kind
of give and take, a processof negotiation and compromise
that blur and shift any linethe artists or engineers might
have imagined dividing artfrom science or technology
before they got down to work.
Or, as Klüver said, it’s onething to do science in your

(03:18):
laboratory, and another todo it in an artist’s loft.
I’m paraphrasing—Klüver’sversion involved something
about miniskirts that didmake it into the season.
Anyway, while my main takeawayhere is that we should remain
open to possibilities whenworking collaboratively and

(03:39):
not worry too much aboutforming strict boundaries
between disciplines, on anemotional level, I really
admire Klüver’s passionfor his day job—his lasers.
I’m trying to channel hisability to find beauty and
metaphor in his daily grind!

(04:00):
That’s it for this episode.
More in a few months.
This episode was produced byme, Zoe Goldman, with mixing
and sound design by Jaime Roque.
Christopher Sprinkleis executive producer.
Learn more about this podcast,and all our Getty podcasts, at

(04:22):
getty dot edu slash podcasts.