Adam Thurston's Harmonic Blueprint: Music, Venues, and Real Estate is Chicago's Heartbeat

Gather 'round as we reminisce over matzah ball soup and the bonds that tie us to the thrumming heart of Chicago's music and real estate scene. We're joined by Adam Thurston, the maestro behind the iconic venues Schuba’s and Lincoln Hall, to discuss the delicate symbiosis of nurturing live music within the Windy City's bricks and mortar. With a spotlight on Audiotree, Adam shares how this innovative platform is revolutionizing music discovery and bolstering emerging talents in the digital age. 

Our conversation crescendos as we traverse the challenges and triumphs of orchestrating nearly 600 live shows annually, highlighting the dedication of his teams and the unique "Far Out" series that captures bands in the most unexpected of places. Imagine the excitement of scouting diverse locations across Chicago, each with its own story, enhancing the vibrant tapestry of our music landscape. And if you think managing a bustling venue stops him from enjoying shows—think again! We discuss the balancing act of show-going post-parenthood, proving that his passion for music is as alive as ever.

As we wrap up, we explore the shifting cultural tides post-pandemic and the fertile ground they offer for innovation in music and hospitality. The future beckons with possibilities, from the bustling development in Fulton Market to the pivotal role venues like Schuba’s hold in shaping artists' careers and audience experiences alike. So plug in, tune up, and join us on this symphonic journey through the melodies and mortar of Chicago's beating heart.

Have someone you think should be a guest on this podcast? Let us know! Email your suggestions over to: [e-mail], [e-mail]

Connect with Karen and Andrew at Be Realty: Be Realty Group

Email the Show: [e-mail]

Guest: Adam Thurston of Audiotree, Schubas, and Lincoln Hall

Link: Schubas / Tied House

Link: The Bagel Restaurant

Link: Marco Benevento

Link: Khruangbin

Link: South Port Corridor Chicago

Link: Shakey Graves

Link: Fulton Market District

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Records in Real Estate, a podcast about
well records in real estate.
You'll be entertained andinformed as we explore the
intersection of these two worldsthrough interviews with
Chicago's most interesting andsuccessful people from both
industries.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That was Andrew Wendt and I'm Karen Sanvoss.
We are Chicago Real EstateBrokers, property Managers, avid
Music Lovers and your hosts ofRecords in Real Estate.
Karen Sanvoss, andrew Wendt,how are you?
It's been a while.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
It has been a while.
I'm great today.
Good, that's great.
You weren't so good yesterday,huh.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
Nope, a little bit of bad.
Either bad fish or bad shrimp.
Either way that's not a goodthing.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
You could cover both by saying bad seafood.
There you go, but yep feelinggreat now.
I was, karen, was charged withthis task from our colleague and
I stepped in to take care of it, and I went to her place to
pick up a package and broughtyou some matzabal soup from the

(01:11):
bagel.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yeah, that was really nice of you.
I love how you kind of droppedit and ran.
Well, I Texted me, don't spill.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
It was precariously set against the door.
Yeah, and I didn't want you tospill it, because it's like
liquid gold, you know, that'sright.
And I was standing there forabout five minutes and you
weren't coming to the door, so Iyou didn't tell me that you
were actually there.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I thought you were down in the lobby, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I rang.
I knocked and rang the doorbellbut Did you really yeah it's
okay, no problem.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
I gotta check my bill .

Speaker 1 (01:41):
I thought you were totally avoiding me and only
came to the door because I waswalking away and didn't want to
be seen.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
I didn't know you were there.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Actually, your neighbor on the other end of the
call was like is she coming tothe door?
I'm like I just texted her.
I think she'll be right here.
I'm like is it any of yourbusiness?

Speaker 2 (02:01):
People are very protective of my building.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, of course, as they should be Stranger danger.
That's right.
Well, we just had a lovelyconversation with a gentleman
named Adam Thurston.
Yeah, he is one of the ownersof Shubas in Lincoln Hall,
prominent venues in Chicago.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Yeah, that's been mentioned, I think, on almost
every podcast thus far everyepisode.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, and we were fortunate enough to have him on
Shout out to our colleague,dominic Fodorero, director of
commercial real estate and isstarting to develop a restaurant
tour book of business, and hewas at Illinois Restaurant Tour
Association meeting or somethinglike that and struck a

(02:45):
conversation with Adam.
And here we are today.
So kudos to Dominic.
We are going to get into ourconversation with Adam Thurston.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
Audio Tree is a music discovery platform and record
label.
Essentially is what we refer toit as We've been started in
2010 with the idea that we wereeither going to start a label of
some sort or a studio recordingstudio.
And we quickly found out atthat time, as we were just
getting started, that bandsdidn't have a bunch of money,

(03:22):
never have or, for the most part, in general, never have, never
will and so we kind of createdthis model of a live studio
performance where they'd come inand they would perform while
they were in town.
So it wasn't anything they hadto build a schedule around.
So they would be coming intotown playing at any one of the
Chicago venues and they wouldcome to our studio that was

(03:42):
originally on on Wacker and comein and record just a basically
a live little in studioperformance where they'd set up
in sort of a practice spacestyle setup.
We'd have a host and be likelet's play some songs and they
just sort of jam it out and likekind of cut out a lot of the
production and all the littlethings that take a long time.
It's just a live performance,let's do it.

(04:04):
So we started to do that.
See how it goes.
We started streaming thingspretty early on in the streaming
game.
We started a YouTube channelwhen YouTube was mostly cat
videos and other things likethat, in like 2011.
And since then we've recordedabout 1500 plus of said audio
tree live sessions, which wasour first thing that we started
doing, and so we startedstreaming them, putting them up

(04:26):
on YouTube, putting them on ourwebsite and then, when Spotify
came along, we're putting themup on Spotify, and essentially
the way the business model worksis then we would we wouldn't
charge the artists any moneyBecause, like I said, they
didn't have much.
So we said we'll do this forfree.
You guys signed an agreementthat allows us to license the
performance, the masterperformance, and we'll put it up
on YouTube, spotify, appleMusic and that has grown as

(04:48):
there's been more DSPs digitalservice providers around the
globe.
So then we just started doingthat and it kind of built this
audience of fans that were bothenjoying the music discovery
aspect of it, where we wereessentially working with younger
bands that were just gettingstarted, and then it'd be a way
for us to sort of be the siftthrough what we thought was

(05:09):
great music coming through townthat a lot of people might not
have heard of before, and then.
So we had that audience thatwas building, and then we also
had a lot of bands that wereinterested in coming in, because
as we built an audience, theywere like oh, this is a great
opportunity for us to get someeyeballs, and it's blah, blah,
blah.
And from there it's grown andevolved and we do all sorts of
different things in that, in themusic platform.

(05:30):
Awesome, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
That sounds incredible.
Yeah, really cool.
How was that today?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah, it's like they nailed it.
That's great.
It was like a best concert orthere was I forget what
Countryton, maybe England.
There's one that's like analley show.

Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, I can't remember what that one's called.
There's a bunch, I mean, youknow.
Originally, to be honest, itwas in Rock Island, illinois.
It was called Day Trotter, andDay Trotter was basically what
we were doing, but without avideo element whatsoever.
It was just this guy, seanMoller, started Rock Island as
though it's sort of in the QuadCities area it's right out in
the 80s, so a lot of bands wouldbe traveling through.
So I'm not sure when he starteddoing this, but it was probably

(06:08):
2006, 2008, somewhere aroundthere Just started recording
live sessions with bands as theywere coming through town and
he'd do a couple of day andthey'd just come in, record a
few songs and then go on theirway.
And so we were sort of inspiredby that.
We're like, what if we did it Ain Chicago, because there's a
lot more venues and it's not asdifficult to convince them to
come to Chicago because a lot ofthem already are to play a show
.
But let's, let's also add avideo element to it so people

(06:31):
can like see you ball.
So that's how we kind of gotall started.
But there's, there's a handfulof other ones too that are.
You know, we kind of I don'twant to after day trotter.
We were kind of the first onesdoing the video version of it
and then it's grown from there.
There's a bunch of other peoplethat do similar type of series.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
It's so great to see just kind of help.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Yeah yeah, the sausage is made.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, the very low-key level and and then.
So ideally they would come intotown, do the recordings with
you and then go play the show.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
So people heard the recordings, they could go, and
sure if they well, yeah, at thatpoint we were, we were doing
them live and that wasn't reallythe.
The idea wasn't really to likepromote their show that day.
You know, it was more just toget the word out about artists
that we thought were wereplaying, playing good music,
whatever the genre.
So but yeah, and then it's sortof grown from there and and
evolved for sure.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
How did you find these artists?
I mean now, they probably cometo you.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
Yeah, re, exactly early on, it was us writing,
emailing Artists, a lot offriends that were in bands,
other people like that, thatlike, hey, we got this idea,
we're doing, and they're likewhat are you talking about?
Just like just come over hereand try it.
And so it took a little bit ofthat for a while.
But then, as we did 15, 20, 30of them, then there was a lot
you know PR agents, of course,for a lot of these bands.

(07:44):
Oh, this is be great, it's agreat thing for me to get.
So then it started that.
So then from there, early on,it was it was, you know, us
writing.
These artists come in and thenafter that we had actually
started to build a little teamand had dedicated, dedicated
person or people that were justreaching out and Fighting
whatever they thought was thenew, new thing that was coming

(08:04):
through, and so that's how thatgot started.
And you know, now it's we'vegot almost like 15 members of
the team that do everything,from the program manager Well,
who's the person who does thebooking?
To our, you know, video crewand our audio team and
everything across the board.
So graphics, art department andall sorts other stuff.
So it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Yeah, wow, congratulations.
Thank you because she was hasbeen around for a while.
Yeah, right, and his audio treeand yourself that you know.
Newer owner, yes, okay.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yes.
So this is a sort of perfectsegue explaining how this worked
with the bands coming into townwhen they were playing shows.
So, because a lot of theartists we were working with
were, you know, on their way upBaby bands, you know just
starting to play their first orsecond show in Chicago.
They're playing at Shubasbecause she was a 200 capacity
venue, or Lincoln Hall, which isa 500 capacity venue.
So we were spending a bunch oftime going to the shows, seeing

(08:56):
those, these bands and othersplaying at those venues.
So we were playing a bunch tospend a bunch of time there in
the metro and empty bottle andall those venues around town,
and so we were just there a lot.
And so as we, as we spent moreand more time there, got to know
the Shubas brothers, mike andChris Shuba, who started Shubas
in 1989.
They started doing live music Ithink in 1990 or 91.

(09:17):
Yeah, we just got to know him.
And as business was picking upfor us at audio tree, it was
kind of right around 2000, late2013.
They approached us and said,hey, would you guys be
interested in taking the venuesover and maybe?
And so Made the decision tomake the dive into the live
music venue world, yeah, whichis a crazy one as well.

(09:37):
So so, yes, the Shubas brothersran both those vent while they
open Shubas in 1989 and thenopened Lincoln Hall in 2009,.
Okay, just as like the nextlogical step, a little bigger
room, so when the bands camethrough, they can have them play
once at Shubas and then nexttime through come play Lincoln
Hall.
Sure, and so that's how we gotconnected with them and how the
the venue connection all cametogether.
So, and, of course, we saw thatas a great way to more access

(10:00):
to bands so we could film liveshows at the venues, so we all
that type of stuff.
So that all happened in 2014when we took over the ownership
of the venues.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
So, how was that transition to go from?
You know recording small bandsand in a little Studio?

Speaker 3 (10:15):
yeah, it's crazy, I mean it's, it's just there's.
You know, in any music venuethere's two businesses operating
.
There's the music business andthen there's the bar, food and
beverage business, you know.
So it's like there's two wholeseparate things going on.
And so, needless to say, welearned a lot in the first
couple years, as we were, youknow, offers and in the volume
of shows that the Shubasbrothers have always had and

(10:36):
we've continued on from there.
I mean, between the two rooms,that we have almost 600 shows a
year.
Yeah, so it's like basicallyseven nights a week at Shubas
there's a show going on, so it'snot, whereas in the bigger,
bigger venues the 1500, 2000,3000, cap, you know those those
places might have shows four orfive, six times a month or it's
like it's just all that, it'sjust constant.
That should was in Lincoln Hall, but you know we've got such a

(10:58):
great team and it makes it allall possible.
But, yeah, it's, it was a lot.
Just the payouts.
In every single day there's somany things going on in the
bands and the deposits and thisand that, and you know the
ticketing, online ticketing andcash, but all that so did you
have anyone helping you from theold guard?
Yes, so that's what's great.
We were very fortunate.
Mike Shuba was as part of thethe the, when we purchased the

(11:22):
venues.
He was interested in staying onit's and I'd love to, you know,
work with you guys still if youwant, and he's still our
operations manager to this day,okay, and so I mean that's.
It's almost been ten years sincewe took over and he's great oh
it's just makes things so mucheasier because just all the
little things from I mean, shewas just the Property alone that
the building that she was is inis a hundred and twenty years

(11:45):
old almost.
So it's just all the nuancesand things With the go, with
having an old building andknowing where this is and where
the crawl space is to do this,that and the other thing Right,
and then, of course, all theoperations of the business, has
helped out a lot.
So yeah, mike, she was acrucial part of the team.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Still, Do you get to enjoy any of the 600 shows that
happen at the venues?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
or, as I said, prior to Having my three children, I
used to enjoy them all.
You know more, a lot more often.
Yes, but I usually try and makeat least one show a month at
each one of the venues.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, just to to be there and check it out, see
what's going on and do you handpick the show that you want to
see, or is it just kind of likea schedule permits?

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Yeah it's, it's 50 50 .
A lot of times, you know,there's shows that I want to see
, that I would love to see that,I just can't because of
something.
But yeah, it's usually, it'susually a 50 50.
It's like there's there'salways fans that we have coming
up that I'm all excited about.
So I Try and mark the calendarand try my best to get there.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Do you film them?

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Sometimes we have a series that we we call staged,
which is basically us filminglive shows at the venues.
That name we started thatactually during the pandemic,
because the one thing that wehad going for us when the
pandemic hit was that we had alive streaming company.
So when a lot of other venueswere like scrambling to be like,

(13:09):
well, we're completely shutdown, as ours were Once we sort
of got a handle on things, wewere able to do quite a few.
I think I can't rememberexactly the number we did at
least I would say 25 to 30 livestreaming ticketed shows that we
did from the venues, because wealready had been doing that for
years and had all the equipmentand had the place all wired up
for it.
So so we did a lot more thannow.

(13:31):
You know, we do a number ofother series, including the
audio tree live, that we cancontinue to do.
We have another series calledfar out, where we record bands
and unique spaces, crazy placesaround the the city, like we
filmed the band in a in an emptypool, at one of the parks
district swimming pools.
We filmed at this billiardshall.
We've filmed all over the place.
So we got a bunch of differentseries that we do.

(13:53):
So we don't film as many bandsas we used to Live on the stages
, but we still try and do 10 or12 a year, for sure.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
So for the far out, do you get permission or do you
just go until the?

Speaker 3 (14:04):
cop?
No, we definitely do.
Yeah, that's a big part of it.
That's what takes up most time.
It's just location scouting andfinding a place.
And we're always going into weknow this, I'm gonna forget the
name of it now but a costumeshop on the north I want to say
it was in Portage Park and filmthis great band called mama not
too long ago and it's so meetsome very interesting people
that own film that this placecalled scrims, which is like a,
an online gaming Center, and soyou go in and meet some very

(14:27):
interesting people that ownthese places and like so we want
to film a band here.
And they're like mm-hmm, okay.
And they're like would that beall right?
Sure, and they're like how muchdo you want us to pay you?
So sometimes we were trying tofilm in a mall.
Recently I can't remember one ofthe suburb malls, suburban
malls and this one was like likea lot of malls Don't didn't
have much going on in it, butthen they you know, you never

(14:49):
know.
Then someone's just like ohyeah, give us 10 grand.
And we're like no, we're justfilming, like a small band here
doing a little thing.
So we meet all sorts ofinteresting people.
We filmed it some really reallycool places, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Yeah, what a cool way to get to know you know, yeah,
yeah.
So what?
What are you listening tocurrently?
It can be bands that you'resure, audio tree.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Yeah, you know, yeah, lots of things.
Let's see, I really.
There's this band calledcrumbin Sure, that's they.
They.
We had them at Early on atShuba's and and then at Lincoln
Hall and recorded a live recordwith them there, nice, and then
they played our music festivalthat we have I've got five years
ago or something, so they'vethey've become, they're

(15:31):
definitely one of my favorite,just because I mean that music
is just.
Not only is it fantastic, butyou can listen to it, whether
you're, you know, working or youknow whatever you're doing,
having a drink or hanging outfriends.
It's just great and great.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
So the amount of sound that they produce is just
incredible For three artists.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
It's really just a three-piece yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Yeah, just a three-piece drummer, bassist and
lead guitar.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
It's so moody, it's just so yeah it's incredible
that I'm not live.

Speaker 1 (16:01):
They're great band, fantastic yeah one of my faves
anything else comes to mind,let's see.
Well, I try to make thisquestion easier, because it's we
used to be.
What's your favorite band?
And nobody can think anything?

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, you'd be surprised.
I can now ask what do youimagine to now?

Speaker 2 (16:16):
And you're in the headlights music.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
People listen to a lot of different things at the
present, yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yeah, well, as you can imagine, I get this, get a
question, questions like thisall the time and if not, that
version of it, it's like, oh,what's coming up?
But she was looking all thatyou're excited about and you
know there's always a few fewshows that we have coming up
that I you know having the backof my mind.
But you know, when you do thevolume of shows that we do, it's
just like Not stop shows allthe time.
So then I usually have to stop,be like, let's see one month,

(16:41):
is it?
Because often the way thingswork In, you know, in live music
is, you know, our talent buyerswho are booking these shows, or
booking shows that are likeeight and nine weeks out, or
nine months, eight or ninemonths out, so they're already
thinking in right now.
They're thinking like summernext year, right, and so I'll,
you know, get an email from Danup, a doc, our talent buyer, and

(17:04):
he'll say, hey, I'm thinkingabout this, this band, whatever
what your thoughts.
I'm like, yeah, great.
So like those are the bandsthat are in my mind a lot.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
So then when people say like what's coming up now,
I'm like what is what is up inOctober, because I was thinking
about October, in January thisyear.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
So subtract.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
It's a point.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
It's funny, but yeah, geez, one of some.
My one of my favorite bands ofall time is Incubus.
It's been one of my favoritebands.
I just love Brandon Boyd.
Another artist that I reallylove is Andy Schoff.
He's From outside Toronto, morechill, but just a great
songwriter.
But then I, like some other, wehad a great band on from the

(17:39):
Hudson Valley area in New Yorkcalled Soul Blind and their
heavier sort of Like deaf tonestype.
So I'm kind of all over theplace when it comes to comes to
my music tastes and yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Has there been any surprises?
You know, somebody you've neverheard of took a chance on.

Speaker 3 (17:53):
Oh, absolutely.
I mean that's the, the audiotree sessions that we've done
over the.
As you can imagine, we're doing15 hundred them over Over 13
years.
There's been plenty of bandsthat we you know when they came
in.
There's an artist named shakygraves is one of our biggest
success stories.
Shake he's from seems Alejandro.
He's from outside Austin, texas.
In July 2013, he came and did asession with us and he pulled

(18:16):
up in like some sort ofconversion van with a buddy of
his name, a mattress in the back, and he just did this one-man
Performance with like a kickdrum that he was playing while
he was, you know, doing theguitar, and it's one of our most
viewed stream sessions of all.
It is our most, you know,viewed stream sessions of all
time.
Wow, shake he's, you know, gone, gone on be pretty, pretty big

(18:36):
deal, and we've had All sorts ofI mean artists from Mitski,
japanese breakfast glass animals.
Lizzo came in into the session.
Wow, we've had so many it's,but yes, there's all the time
and that's the best part.
I always say that's my answeroften to the questions like
what's coming up at Shubas?
I'm like, because, if it's,depending on who the person is,
that's asking me and I have aread on whether or not you know

(18:58):
they're like a big music personor they're just, you know, a
casual music fan.
To be honest, at Shubas becauseit's 200 cap room, they're
usually smaller bands that arethis is their first time through
Chicago or their second time.
But the most impressive thingabout the history of Shubas is
it's looking backwards, you know, three years and being like the
list of bands that I've seeneven in the last 14 years since
I moved to Chicago.

(19:18):
I mean I watched Mumford andSums play their first show there
and fostered the people andBilly Eilish and you know people
like that that came throughthat at the time they were just
playing their first show, so Idon't know them.
But the I mean Dave Matthewsband played his first show at
Shubas in Chicago.
John Mayer, jason Maraz, garyClark Jr, arcade fire I mean

(19:41):
those, all those bands playlittle Shubas and that's just
bound to happen when you havethe volume of shows that we have
.
It's also because we've alwayshad great talent buyers, you
know that, have that year toknow what's what's next.
But it's pretty crazy when youdo again, almost 350 shows a
year at any room over the courseof 20 years.
You do that many, you're gonnahave some of the biggest bands
that played there, which isreally cool.

(20:01):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
I have a fun Shuba story.
I actually came up in mywedding vows, so so I my my.
I'm a big music fan, but youknow, my former of years was
spent listening to fish andother jam bands, and so Marko
Benavento played and I broughtmy wife to a show and this was
like the time.
She's my girlfriend and youknow I was Wondering if we were

(20:26):
going to be able to enjoy musiclike this together.
And I saw her grew for likeMaybe 30 seconds, you know, but
in my mind, probably because Ihad a few beers or whatever I'm
like, yes, she's in, we're gonnado this, you know.
And so, like a wake up the nextmorning, like it seemed like
you really enjoyed that, right?

(20:46):
She's like, uh, I mean, I wasat the bar most of the show and
you know, to be honest, youdon't have to invite me to those
.
It's actually been a fine thingthat we can have our separation
of different things that weenjoy.
But, yeah, so in my vows, andlike I promise never to drag you

(21:09):
to any more, marco Benavento.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Sort of sticking with the music theme what are some
of your early memories, sort ofengaging with music.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
Yeah, you know, I wouldn't say like it wasn't, I
don't have.
The story was like, oh, my dadwas, you know, in a band or
anything like that.
Of course my dad was alwayslistening music.
But, um, you know, I don't knowif I really have too many like
formative, like those momentswhere it was like, oh, music, I
love it.
But you know, I of course wentto some my first handful of
shows when I was younger.
That I remember going to geez,I can't remember what the.

(21:46):
I think I think actually thefirst like a live show I ever
saw was Christina Aguilera atthe Traverse City Cherry
Festival.
Okay, yeah, and then I, shortlyafter that, I think my aunt
took me to see like Weird Al orsomething.
Those were my first couplethings.
But then I had some friendsthat were big.

(22:06):
A bunch of my friends were inbands when we were growing up in
middle school and high schooland so we'd go to shows and go
see 311 or whatever and somethings like that.
But I don't know if I ever hadthat like aha moment, because I
never.
Another question I often get islike so, do you play music?
And I'm like I don't.
I know I was in like middleschool band, it played saxophone
right.
I just never played music Inever.
And then I think, once I gotinto music and made especially,

(22:30):
started Working in the industry,I went to a music school, but
for recording in the businessside of it.
And then you just see thesemusicians that are just so
wildly talented that I, you know, I'm very able to say to myself
that person probably playstheir guitar Seven hours a day.
Yeah, and I don't have the timeto be that great and the world
has enough half crappy guitarplayers, so I don't need to be

(22:53):
another one.
So I've never really picked upand I don't even don't have any
plans to.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
But, um, but you're more the business side of yeah,
yeah, and that's what youstudied like that's where yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, my degree's in music and entertainment business
, so how'd you?

Speaker 1 (23:06):
decide to go that route.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Yeah, um you know it was, uh, I'm two favorite things
I guess we're like sports andmusic.
Those are my two things, youknow, and there wasn't really an
opportunity for sports.
And found out about this schooldown in Florida called full
sail, which is in Winter Park,florida, outside of Orlando,
after I went to Michigan State.
It was going to meet MichiganState with for communications
and I'm like what are you gonnado with the communications

(23:30):
degree?
I don't know.
So found out about the schooland went down there and yeah, I
just learned recording arts iswhat the first portion of the
degree was in.
So that's being in the studioand learning what all the, what,
the each one of the fivethousand knobs and faders and
buttons on a SSL console, howthey work, and then, and then
from there decided to, you know,get a bachelor's degree in the

(23:54):
business side because that waswhat I was always more
interested in.
So, yeah, that's how that allcame about, cool.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Yeah, I like it.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
So one question I thought of earlier, and sort of
talking about the Business sideof music, I mean so audio trees,
you said it's a record label.
Yeah, and so do some of thebands that you, I don't know,
would you say, discover.
Do they stay on your label?
And how does that?
How?
What does that relationshiplook like?

Speaker 3 (24:23):
with the Sure?
Yeah, it's a great question.
Um, so it's not.
You know, it's less like atraditional label deal where a A
label would sign an artist.
They would, you know, frontthem some money to record.
They're going to a studio andrecord an album for a month and
then they put that out and putthe whole marketing machine
behind it and blah, blah, blah,and then they have the rights to
that master recording, thatthat album you know produced or

(24:46):
that that that band produced,whereas we're more sort of.
It's just like these one-offperformances where they come in.
So we don't really have anysort of Longer relationship with
them other than that specificperformance, gotcha.
So I Don't think I expanded onthis earlier.
But so then bands come in.
Still this day, the, the modelis bands come in, sign the

(25:07):
agreement to For us to put themusic up through our digital
distributor, fuga.
We put it up all over theinternet and then, once we
recoup the cost of doing thesession and we split all the
profit 50 50 with the artist.
So we have that relationshipongoing with them, but other
than that, you know, there's notand that's just not that one
piece of correct.
I'm not live that live recordthat we record.

(25:27):
So it's it's very different.
In the path there's been plentybands that have come in, blown
our minds, gone on to becomemuch larger artists and you know
, and I wish we would have hadsome sort of System in place or
some sort of process to to workwith them more, but that just
wasn't really ever our setup andthen the venues came in the
folds.
Then we've got the live musicside and we got this, so that

(25:49):
was never really our gotcha.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah repeat customers that come back.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, we've had a handful bands that have come in
and done a number of sessions,you know, usually time it up,
like with when they're releasinga new record or putting out or
going out on tour, so then we'llrecord.
You know, say they're gonnarelease a record on October 1st,
then we'll, like their recordwill come out, we'll give it the
space to do its thing and thenyou know, a month later will
record some live or Release somelive versions of it.

(26:15):
So we've done that a few timeswith a few artists that have
Come back a multiple times.
But cool, definitely repeatcustomers at the venues.
We have quite a few bands thatplay the venues regularly, but
more in audio tree it's less,less Instances of you know
multiple time, multiple sessions, just yeah.
There's a lot of bands out there.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Well, I was wondering if you know if they go on to be
bigger and then they get signedto a label and also might be
you know legal issues to youknow the rights to that one
recording session that you have?

Speaker 3 (26:46):
yeah, it definitely gets a little tricky sometimes
with some of that, especiallythe major labels.
You know the universals and thesonys and the Warner music
groups and all that.
They they don't like anybody.
You know they're usuallyinvesting large sums of money in
said artists to promote theirrecord, to Market them and get
the everything going.
So they don't really love whenyou know us, even though we're
doing it for the fact, for theyou know simple concept of being

(27:10):
a music discovery platform forother people to find out about
it.
So sometimes they're not a bigfan of us doing that and signing
.
You know any of the rights awayfor any, any of their
performances.
But we also have a lot of greatlabel partners that see the
value that we bring to itbecause of you know exactly that
we've got 800,000 subscriberson YouTube and you know all
these people that come to findmusic and so they might not have

(27:31):
ever been able to invest inthat Band, hadn't not been for
you.
You know there's plenty storieslike that, that we hear people
all the time say I heard aboutthis man because I was Auditory,
you know, you know it all sortof part of the ecosystem, but
that's okay, yeah that's areally important part.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Oh you know the incubator I sure think so
absolutely.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
So the sort of the music business like what's the
next thing?
I mean, obviously streaming wasa huge disruptor, sure?
Anything like that on thehorizon, or Well, what's next in
the music?

Speaker 3 (28:04):
I don't, you know.
I I mean, obviously the AIconversation has to be something
that people, even if Because ofjust the fact, the way that
people consume music, a lot ofpeople like, yes, a lot of
people go to shows, but themajority of people Aren't.
The most people are nowlistening to their music from
Spotify or Apple music, and alot of them are.

(28:26):
There's a lot of conversationsregarding you know how to
breaking bands and marketingMarketing music now, because a
lot of people use and we do ittoo sometimes is monthly
listener counts, like on Spotify.
It's like a barometer for howbig a band is.
But a lot of times that music isbeing listened to because it's
part of another playlist.

(28:47):
You click right umpferies play,you know Umpferies radio and
you listen to it and it playsyou a bunch of music and it
counts as a stream for all thosepeople, but it might not.
So Back to the AI.
Of course, people that you knowcan create music or have
programs that are writing musicthat are just you know, just can
be a part of another playlistthat you're listening to, right,
working away for eight hours.

(29:07):
It's interesting.
I'm not overly concerned aboutit in any way.
I don't think I mean becauseI'm not an artist.
Maybe if I was an artist, to belike.
I don't know, but yeah, yeah, asfar as next big trends and
things, I don't know, you know,listening trends always change.
It seems like you know, more ofthe rock music indie rock music
sort of had its moment, sort offading off in the background a

(29:28):
little bit.
But um, I don't know, you know,just everything's cyclical.
It seems like it's just comeback around and yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
I was just uh looking at it, listening, no, looking
at an article Um on sphere inLas Vegas.

Speaker 3 (29:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I don't know.
For some reason it's come up alot.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Oh my gosh, I think it's cool.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Yeah, I kind of want to go out and Vegas is not my
scene, but no, me neither.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
I'm actually going to be in Vegas for a business
thing the end of october and Iwas looking up tickets and
they're, like you know, $1,500to go inside, but it looks crazy
.
Yeah, I mean that's incredible.
I mean that type of stuff isjust incredible, yeah, sort of
immersive yeah experiences.

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, wild, why don't we take a quick break and we
can come back with adam and talkabout chicago?
First we want to talk about ourrecord of the week record
record.
Record of the week.
Do you have one?

Speaker 2 (30:23):
You know I have been listening to this record for a
while now, but I don't thinkI've brought it up here.
Okay, so this is going to be myrecord of the week and it's
actually artist of the weekartist of the week so I don't
know how much you know aboutjackie gleason.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Not much at all.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
So jackie gleason some people, most people, know
him as the guy who yells a loton the honeymooners.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Olds, old school TV show black and white yes, from
back in the day.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Well, he is also a very famous musician and
conductor Of like a big bandorchestra.
Okay and so he.
There's a jackie gleasonstation on spotify.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
No kidding.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I listen to it all the time.
It is delightful wonderful bigstring Orchestra and it just
puts you right back.
You just want to get a I don'tknow, a gimlet or a High ball of
some sort, and yeah, and watchmadmen or something.
It is just Lovely.
So that is my record of theweek.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Awesome.
I came across this band becausesomebody that I'm friends with
on facebook mentioned them.
That's called.
They're called all them witchesand I was in tone deaf records.
Um, you know, visiting ourfriend tony and saw record a
piece of vinyl from all themwitches and just picked it up
and it's tremendous, it's um didtony recommend it or did you

(31:52):
just stumble?
No, I stumbled upon it.
I saw that they saw that theartist's name and just grabbed
it because it's halloween ish.
Well, I picked it up a couplemonths ago and be listening to a
pretty non-stop sense, and I'vebeen listening to all of their
records through spotify and, uh,they're out of Nashville, as
every artist is these days.
Um, but they're not country,they're more like a Sort of

(32:16):
blues rock, psychedelia type ofband, a little bit more hard
driving and Four-piece band.
Love them, they're great.
The record title is called whatwas it?
It was uh all them witches itwas from roman polanski's Uh
1968 book rosemary's baby.

(32:39):
It is um.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
I thought that was the name, okay.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
No, it's.
It's like lightning Somethingor other.
I want to say lightning thief,but that's not right.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Let's see lightning at the door lightning at the
door 2013.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (32:52):
They have another one from 2015.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
They have a couple albums.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Um in 2020.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Yeah, um, and they're .
They're a good live band.
They have like a.
I saw Uh live recording of themon youtube.
Um, they're great.
All them witches out ofNashville.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Nice Lightning at the door and then, if you want a
book of the week, readrosemary's baby.

Speaker 1 (33:13):
That's right.
Or a movie of the week that'salso been turning the movie with
mia ferro, mia ferro, yeah, um,cool.
Well, that's our record of theweek and here is our
conversation with adam thurston.
So we're back with, uh, adamthurston of audiotree and shubas

(33:34):
and lincoln hall and, uh, Idiscovered the answer to this
question when we were chattingearlier.

Speaker 3 (33:40):
but, uh, you are not a native chicago, no, I am not,
um, you from from michigan calmsin michigan originally, it's
right grew up until, uh, I wentto school at michigan state and
then moved down to florida for alittle while and then, uh, I
was in boston for a little bit,for a year and a half, after my,
my wife, went to grad schoolthere.
Uh, so lived in boston for alittle bit and then been in

(34:01):
chicago For 13 years nice, 14,almost.
So what brought you here?
Uh, jeez, always wanted to comeback to the midwest.
You know, came to chicago oftenwhen I was younger, just like
the energy of the big city.
Obviously, if you're gonna getinto them, into the music
business, you've got to be inone of you know four, probably,
towns, either being new york, laNashville or or chicago.

(34:24):
So, um, being A midwestern boylike I am, decided that chicago
was the place to place the land.
So I met my, my wife, down inIn florida and we went to boston
and she liked me enough to Comewith me over to chicago, and so
we've been here for that longand so, yeah, yeah, it's great,
I love the city.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
Good, what would be some of your favorite things
about the city?

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Yeah, jeez, I mean, if you wanted to say, just do
some of the the high levelthings, I think everybody's just
in, at least my travels toother major cities, just like.
Everybody's just a lot niceraround here.
You know it's a clean city.
Uh, food scene's great yeah,just so many.
And the music scene's great too, it's.
It's the independent sort ofvenue, especially on the venue

(35:08):
side, a lot of great independentmusic venues which you don't
find in a lot of other markets.
A lot of them are dominated bythe live nations in the agis of
the world and they all havetheir place too.
But it's really cool.
There's so many greatIndependent, from joe shanahan
at the metro and, and BruceFinkelman who's got an empty
bottle and valley hall and saltshed and promontarian space in
evanston, and gomez who hassubterranean and bee kitchen,

(35:28):
and so it's pretty cool becausea lot of the markets you go to
and it's like, oh, that's thesefour in the live nation venues
and these two are the ag ones.
Yeah, they're owned by, youknow, the corporations, yeah, uh
, so that was really cool too.
Um, which I guess I didn't, wassuper well versed in before I
moved to chicago and got intothe music industry and I learned
all of these things.
But, um, yeah, people alwaysasked her like, do you think

(35:50):
you'll ever move?
I was like I don't know.
I don't really have any plansto relieve the chicago area.
Yeah, maybe if I'm, when I'molder and have, if I have some
money Right, have a place inarizona or florida or something.
Yeah, but, yeah, always plan tohave residents around here,
because it's just a no goodpeople, great food, great
entertainment scene across theboard.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
So yeah, it's a great song music scene.
It's great.
Uh uh, karen and I uh juststopped into the beat kitchen
one night and saw some like Doomgays Wow.
Hadn't heard that term beforelittle little children out there
playing doom gays.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Like it was incredible.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
That's great, we're definitely the old people in the
20s, not only somebody's mom orlike somebody's grandparents.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
That that Karen likes to get right up at the front
too.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
It's just uh you know , if you're there, you might as
well experience it in full.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
I took a fun picture of her where it just seemed like
if she was the only one in thecrowd at this.
You know, hard ass, doom, gaze,um, that's great.
Do you got?
Do you like collaborate or, youknow, touch base with some of
those owners?
I mean?

Speaker 3 (36:54):
yeah, oh for sure.
Uh, I mean, in some way, insome instances we're definitely
competing with each other forsome shows, but At the end of
the day I mean being in themusic promoting business, as
tough as it is anyway.
So it did to not collaboratewith the other talent buyers and
other venue owners and seewhat's working for them or

(37:15):
what's not, on all sorts ofthings.
It just wouldn't make any sense.
And so we do.
Yeah, we've got some greatrelationships, and a handful of
years ago a little group cametogether called civil Chicago
Independent Venue League, whichwas actually born out of the
development, the Sterling Baydevelopment, or by that you know
hide out in the Salt Shed areaover there, and so that group

(37:38):
actually came together aroundthat, because there was that big
article where Sterling Bay wasgoing to build this massive
thing and all these things andbuild these live venues.
And then it timed up perfectly,unfortunately, but perfectly,
because then the pandemichappened, and so there was
already a group formed up of usthat that could then be together
and join forces for all sortsof stuff, for, you know,

(38:00):
lobbying for support, forsupport from the government,
since we were shut down and gotto operate businesses, and so
that was the long answer to yes.
No, I mean, there's some great,great people in this, in this
industry, and I mean they're allall good.
I would consider a lot of themgood friends.
So were you guys.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Was that the organization?
Forgive me, yeah, if I'm beingignorant, but was that the
organization that came up withthe hashtag save our stages?

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yes, yeah, that's exactly what it was and that was
the big push to, you know, getthe, the SVOG, the state save
our stages grant, which ended upcoming out of that which the
government came up big on, to,yeah, provide a bunch of money
for for a lot of the venues,just to be able to keep their
employees and, you know, justhave some money to ramp back up

(38:48):
and get back to once shows wereable to go on again.
So, yeah, yeah, that was it.
So that was really cool.
Yeah, there's a lot of great, alot of great people in the
industry.
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
Are things kind of back to where they were pre
pandemic?

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yeah you know, I there was a I just read this
report that was it wascommissions, the right word but
was put together, paid, paid forby D case, which is the
department of cultural affairsfor the city of Chicago, for
this group.
They basically pulled a bunchof everybody in the
entertainment arts scene inChicago and that includes
theaters and nonprofit theatersand all sorts of things and

(39:21):
music venues and all thesethings and the reports are, I
mean, our personal experiences.
It definitely feels likeespecially the I'd say like the
back half of this year.
So far, maybe even into thespring, it's been a lot of, it's
been busy, and that's because alot of those artists that
weren't touring for such a longtime, everybody kind of went on
a tour on the same time when innormal times, you know, bands

(39:44):
will usually have album cycleswhere they're, like you know,
release a record and thenthey'll tour for three or four
months and then maybe take amonth off and then tour for
another couple months and thenyou know, okay, we just spent
six or seven months on the roadand put out a record, let's
chill for a year.
So then that's what sort ofwould create the space in the
past, but now it was likeeverybody wants to go on tour.
So we've had a ton of shows andI'd say, as far as being back

(40:10):
ticket buyers are, people arestill buying quite a few tickets
.
We're seeing some changinghabits in.
That seems like the youngergeneration whether it's Gen Z,
millennials not drinking as muchwhich is interesting, you know
which?
I mean sort of makes sense, soyou adjust and do those types of
things.
But yeah, I mean it's been,it's been good it's been.
I mean it helps.

(40:30):
We've got these two venues thathave been around for such a
long time, that have a name.
You know, I say with Shubasit's like a lot of times people
will meet someone anywhere outand I go, what do you do?
I was like, oh, we got thiscompany called Audio Tree and
they're like I haven't heard ofit.
And you know, and then you say,oh, then we run Shubas.
And I was like, oh, I knowShubas, I saw the best show in
96.
And I was like, oh, I'm going torun this band and I have no

(40:51):
idea who they're talking about,but if you have lived in Chicago
for any more than you know acouple years, at any point in
the last 30 years you'veprobably been to Shubas.
So having that type of brandrecognition like we have with
those venues, that helps, helpsa lot.
But the general consensus ofthis report I was just referring
to was that we're still notquite there.
Especially theater, it seems,has been quite a bit more.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
I'm on the theater tip and a lot of them closed
down and never came back.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
Yeah, definitely not pre pandemic numbers, and you
know some people read into thatlike, oh well, maybe just things
are changing and people havefound other.
You know they've.
You know, have a love Netflixnow more than they ever have, or
have decided they, I don't knowwhatever.
But I do believe that you knowthere's something that, no
matter what, you're never goingto.
That feeling of humans comingtogether to watch a live show or

(41:40):
live performance, like and youknow the whole AI thing that
came up with like, oh, are theyjust going to be like AI bands
and everything, and at one pointit's just going to ruin the
live music, you know, scene or,or, and my thought was well,
even if it does, even if theonly things that are performing
on stage or you know, hologramsor AI generated bands or
whatever, there's still peoplewant to get together, right, and

(42:03):
, you know, interact with eachother and have a drinking dance
and do whatever.
That's never going to go away,but so it's just about again,
little changes like, oh, theyounger generation is not
drinking as much, so we have alot more any options and a lot
more companies are brewing any,you know, to an alcoholic
products or whatever.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
So just to get your margins off of yeah, you still
have it right.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah, I read a report recently that that, like I
don't know those, thosebeverages have just skyrocketed
huge.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
Yeah, absolutely huge .
I mean, even some of the justmet with a couple of the guys
that work for Lagunita.
They've got this great productcalled Hopwater, which is really
good.
I mean it's almost it's.
You know, it's kind of like ginlike.
In that it's very herbalbecause you know hops have that
that same sort of herballyflavor to it.

(42:51):
But it was really good andthat's something they've been
pushing a bunch and so just alot of you know, just you got to
pivot.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
I would assume eventually cannabis drinks would
be part of that scene as well.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
I sure think so, yeah , in fact, Lagunitas makes one.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
In California they do Amazing.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
We spent about a half hour of the meeting yesterday
talking about that.
They had just come back fromPetaluma, where Lagunitas's
headquarters is, in their highfives.
That product that they do, thatthey, you know it's still very
much like regulated, where it'slike this place bottle, they can
it, but then they send it tothis place to infuse it and you
can still only get it at certainplaces and, you know, can't
move over state lines.
I think they're starting to doin Colorado, but I would imagine

(43:26):
that's the the direction we'regoing.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
And I guess it's just a complete side note.
Forgive me, but this is a clapback to.
You know the person thatbrought us Karen and I together.
I saw umphreys in Petaluma withBrian B and Kermie.
Oh that was a fun show.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
That was awesome.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
I also saw umphreys at Chubas back in the day.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
I have to also say that I think almost every guest
we've had without fail hasbrought up Chubas in some yeah
absolutely All in a positivenote.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
That's great, I love it.
Um, what do you think Chicagoneeds to work on, which I know
is a hot topic?
And but you know from somebodythat owns businesses in Chicago.

Speaker 3 (44:11):
Yeah, it's a good question.
Yeah, with the reopening andgetting back to get, I mean, at
least from my perspective on the, the arts and live music, it
seems like they've been tryingto make some, some investments
there in general and they'vebeen good about that.
What do they need to do better?
Oh gosh, you know there was alot of the population in

(44:32):
Chicago's, you know, slowlydeclining and everybody says
that, oh, that's because theirproperty taxes are too high or
or it's inhospitable for, youknow, businesses to open
headquarters and have a bunch ofpeople, or whatever the case
may be.
I'm not sure quite what toattribute that to.
I do think I don't know.
I just think Chicago, like longterm bullish on Chicago, just
in that it's gonna, it'll be aplace that it's just.

(44:55):
It's just so nicely situatedwith the lake and you know we
get the seasons, some of themworse than others, of course,
but I just think it's just agreat mix where it's spread out
enough but it's compact enough.
There's so many differentneighborhoods and I don't know,
as I get older and I go visitother cities, of course I'm not
as intimately familiar with themas I am with Chicago, but still

(45:16):
there's just, there's justsomething that this town has
that that I don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
Some of the other ones don't, for for my money,
yeah, yeah, I mean, youdemonstrated a bullish attitude
when you open Tidehouse, right?
So so talk a little bit aboutTidehouse.
Yeah, that came about.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Sure, yeah, absolutely so.
Once we took over Shubas therewas an old Harmony Grill that
was connected to it, which wasbasically a two flat that the
Shubas brothers had sort ofretrofitted into a first floor
diner grill and the second floorwas the music offices where the
music staff and departmentwould bookshows and, you know,

(45:53):
run the operations out of there.
With the ever growing andimproving culinary scene in
Chicago, 15, 20 years ago, whenthey, when they opened that,
when the Shubas brothers openedthat, there was nothing on
Southport, there was like, Imean, it was basically like
Justin's I think, and you knowone other little bar, so they

(46:14):
were pretty much the only placethat was making hot food, that
wasn't like microwaved.
And but in the past, you know,10 years ago, there's in or in
the last 10 years there's been anumber of investments in the
not just specifically thatSouthport corridor, with having
an alboka just opened up, theyou know Gigi's chicken and I

(46:34):
Toco, the sushi restaurant and alittle go diner moved up here
from the West Loop, and then ofcourse you've got to come
Blondie and Crosby's andSouthport grocery and blah, blah
, blah.
So anyway we knew we had tostep it up a little bit Right,
and so we made the crazydecision to you know, knock that
building down and build a wholenew restaurant.
It's again well, thank you.

(46:54):
Yes, it was a.
That was a heck of a project.
Learned a lot on that too, asfar as just those projects of
that scope in general.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Maybe you could revise your answer and say that
the Chicago needs to tighten upits permitting.

Speaker 3 (47:07):
Yeah, right, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:12):
We're going to need a break right now.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, adam's, that it's a PTSD Right.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
Exactly.
But so, yeah, we wanted tocreate a restaurant that you
know was was as good or betterthan a lot of other restaurants
in the neighborhood.
We knew we wanted to make likea nice outdoor space and all
that.
And the idea was to have thatcapture type of thing where
people would come to the companydinner before a show, go to the
show, yeah, maybe come over foranother drink afterwards, maybe

(47:37):
you know whatever.
So it's like a full eveningaffair there, right, and when we
opened up we're a little toohigh end.
We sort of missed the mark onthat.
But I think, overpin what theone of the other only good
things that came out of thepandemic for us was an ability
to sort of rethink what we weredoing.
So since then we've made ourmenu a lot more approachable,
really focused on cocktails,really focused on understanding
that people are coming to theshow and so they just want to

(47:59):
come over and have something.
You know whether it's a burgeror chicken sandwich.
But then there's a lot ofneighborhood regulars that we
have that come in to eat there.
So, and I've always just been abig restaurant person- as well,
and.
I love good food, so having theopportunity to like come up with
a restaurant concept.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
That's a really different business model than
you know.
A club, isn't it?
Absolutely is yeah, which?
Again?

Speaker 3 (48:20):
that's crazy, Go back and say these stories like what
are?
What were we thinking?

Speaker 2 (48:24):
But I mean, did you have help with that transition?

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Yeah, I mean the yes, definitely.
I mean from the, just thedesign of the restaurant, laying
all that stuff out.
It's some great, some reallyawesome people that helped us on
that front.
And then, yeah, we had a couplepeople that had been working
for the company prior to ustaking over that were really
great.
Adam Jevney is our food andbeverage director and he's

(48:48):
incredible person and really hasa lot of industry experience in
that realm and but in that itwas a lot of consultants and
some things helping us figureout where we wanted to land in
the in the market and all thechallenges of it, because it is
similar to the Bar business onthe other side.
It's just the people are comingin and sitting down for longer
and they expect to hire a levelof service and and so what we

(49:10):
did do is, you know, have a onesingular kitchen for both places
.
So we kind of have a separatemenu for Shuba's and a separate
menu for Tidehouse, and theofferings are different on both
sides, and so we've gotten a lotbetter at that over the years.
It just, you know, paying foran education is what we had to
do for a little while To figureit all out, because that small
business is all about absolutely, and I mean, that's what's.
You know, most restaurants havea, you know a probably a

(49:33):
demographic that they cater to.
You know that comes regularlyor the certain type of people go
to a certain restaurant For youknow, most of the time, whereas
the venues are very differentin that we have all sorts of
different types of shows andgenres.
So you know, one night it'll bea suburban, you know, jam band
or something, and then the nextday it'll be an all-ages hip-hop
show and then the next dayIt'll be this.

(49:54):
So that also provides challengesbecause, again, when you're
saying, if you're at arestaurant, okay, I know they're
gonna have hundred people in,today they're probably eat these
same things and they all liketo drink these same Things,
whereas, like one day, peoplewill come in and they want
something else and then the nextday it's a totally different
thing that they're drinking.
So it's, there's a lot ofdifferent Planning and and
things going to that too, whichis kind of fun and interesting,

(50:15):
and I mean even for therestaurant, considering we're
physically connected to thevenue.
We always know some crowds aregonna come there eat more.
You know, if we have all agesshow with the younger crowd,
they're usually not gonna comeover and spend 50 bucks on
dinner.
But if we have that suburbanshow or whatever, we'll get you
know 50 people coming over fordinner in the night.
So we've gotten better at thatthose type of things, to be able
to see those trends andunderstand what people are gonna

(50:37):
.

Speaker 2 (50:38):
Super interesting.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (50:41):
Yeah, I think you know we've we've often really
we've loved all of our guests.
But a lot of the conversationsthat we walk away being
intrigued by are usually aboutChicago businesses and just
different ways that they need tosort of go about.
Yeah, things to to to make a goof it.
Sure, that's, that's cool.
So, speaking of you knowChicago business, like when do

(51:04):
you think you know sort ofcommerce is headed in Chicago?
And from a commercial realestate perspective, you know
there's there's not a lot oftransactions happening.
It's harder to start a businessthese days, but you said you're
bullish on Chicago, so Iimagine that you expect some of
these storefronts to sort offill up.

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah, I think you know they'll be.
You know changing habits,changing.
You know evolution of whatpeople's interests are, what,
what it is that people arebuying or spending their money
on.
That always changes as far asthe commercial real estate side
of things with you know the new,a lot of people you know
changing their, whether it'swork from home habits or how

(51:43):
much time they're spending atthe office or all that.
It's definitely created somedifferent you know situations,
but I think you know the theFulton market area down there is
just like, seems like it's itreally hit the nail on the head
with the idea of that like live,work, play concept, where it's
like there's residential,there's business and then
there's also all sorts ofrestaurants and it seems like

(52:05):
you know every, every buildingthat that gets built is getting
filled up pretty quickly downthere and they've got a good,
that good vibe.
So I think it's just, it's alittle bit of just that.
It's just like rethinking.
Like you know, humans stillwant to go out and do things on
the weekends and you know theywant to go to shows and be
involved in arts.
Everybody's got to work to paytheir bills and there's just,

(52:26):
you know, different things thatare gonna be you know different
ways of doing those things, thatthat will shift.
But I think Jeff Shepack is adeveloper who Built that 167
North Green building down thereand I got to meet him a handful
of geez couple months ago andit's just interesting here him
explain that he's been in realestate for a long time.

(52:47):
He's, you know, passionateabout it and sort of that whole
concept of the Fulton market.
He was one of the first people.
That was because when it wasthe meatpacking district
essentially and he basically wasone of the first people in the
early 2000s and was talking tothe alderman about, you know, it
doesn't really make any sense.
We've got a city that has billsthat it needs to pay and then
you've got all these companiesthat are paying like real low
property taxes and they'rewholesalers, right.

(53:09):
So in this, you know, centralbusiness district Right here.
So it's kind of interestinghearing his perspective on it.
So I think, yeah, in general, Ithink Chicago's just made up of
a lot of great people.
I think it's unique to the EastCoast and then I always say
Everybody that's from, you know,grew up within a 300 mile
radius of Chicago.
That was just, you know, thepeople that wanted to get out

(53:30):
and wanted to go to the big city.
They all landed in Chicago.
I mean, of course you have liketertiary big cities like your
Milwaukee's or Indianapolis orDetroit, but on the East Coast
you have, just like, a lot ofmajor cities.
It feels like people stay inthose cities but like Chicago's,
just like this culmination of,yeah, nice Midwestern folks from
you know from three hundredmile radius.
Totally have all come togetherand, you know, seem to get

(53:53):
together for your get along.
For the most part, yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
I love that, I mean it, you know, from your two
venues.
I mean you know, I've, I've.
So you know I've lived in thecity 25 years.
My first place out of collegewas it like Barry and Lakewood.
So I've been in thisneighborhood a lot and you know
the Southport corridor is sortof seen ups and downs and it
certainly seems like it's it'sup, like you said, with all of

(54:16):
those new restaurants that arereally really popular and some
new buildings coming in.
Yeah, I would expect that thesame thing happened to the
Lincoln Avenue stretch whereLincoln Hall is.
It's Not quite as robust as itonce was but yeah, you know,
obviously Lincoln Hall is a hugeanchor.

Speaker 3 (54:36):
Yeah, for that.
So yeah, absolutely yeah, Ithink that's that's definitely
you're seeing a lot more of that, like I have to imagine there's
there's not a ton of you knowbusiness office, at least in the
Southport corridor.
But but those those types ofneighborhoods Lincoln, they just
Lincoln Hall and Lincoln Corner, lincoln and Fullerton and Hall
stood there.
They just they're building,built I don't even know if it's

(54:57):
done, but that big condoproperty that's right there on
the corner.
So yeah, just seems like maybethat's interesting.
Michigan Avenue's changed a lot.
I love people seem to be likemoving out from like that core
downtown area.
Yeah, not, not everybody'snecessary for everybody be at
their desk Monday through Fridayfrom 8, you know, 8 to 5.
So it's just yeah, those typesof changes that are interesting
to see happening.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I wonder if you brought in like an office
building in this area.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
If it would be, you know, it would do all right, you
know, I think yeah, I mean itcould be a you know that sort of
full-market concept of there'slike that, you know
Live-work-play stuff.
I think you'll see more of thathappening in more in more.
You know big cities that havethe ability to to do that and
have those people come in andlive there and work Two
buildings over and then go outto dinner in the, you know, on

(55:42):
the first floor of the buildingthat they work in or whatever.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
So yeah, it's interesting, we shall see we
shall see what's next for AdamThurston an audio tree, oh wow.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Well, I mean, in the long term, it would.
I'd love to have another venueof some sort.
You know, I think it's thatthat natural progression to have
then like another room, because, you know, we spent so much
with.
The core of our business wasfounded on the idea of helping
artists Get their voices heard,get their music heard, be
discovered, and so we're doingthat all the time with the shows

(56:15):
at Shubas and the shows atLincoln Hall, Doing that all the
time with audio tree, and so wespend so much time and effort
and we have such a great teamthat puts all this work in that
we discovered all these amazingartists that come and play when
they're you know, and then allof a sudden they, and then they
get big and then we watch themgo off and, you know, go play
the big rooms and make a muchmoney for all the people.
So it feels like we're you know, we're the, the, the farm

(56:38):
system that identifies them, andthen they go, you know you're
doing all the work.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Yeah right.
We're the benefits, so thatwould be great.

Speaker 3 (56:46):
How many people would that?
And you, oh jeez, I thinkprobably the next logical step
would be between a thousand andfifteen hundred.
Yeah, so, and what's calm?
See to that and so the Metro isabout eleven hundred, thalia is
about nine hundred, and thenyou've got the Vic, which is
right here.
That's fourteen hundred.
Okay, so those are aboutcomparable size rooms.

(57:07):
That would be sort of theperfect next step.
But other than that, you know,just yeah, just trying to evolve
.
You know, obviously there's noShortage of things to be working
on as things change the venuesand as things change with audio
tree, and we continue to growthose brands.
But and just sort of, maybe theentrepreneur in me just always

(57:29):
wants to be continuouslythinking about the next thing
too while doing all that.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
So would you want to be taking over something or or
creating something on your own?

Speaker 3 (57:37):
I think, the pros and cons to both, but I think
perfect scenario would be liketake something over that already
had some of that.
That's the toughest thing, Ithink, is it's the brand
recognition and that that thatis built over the years of just
having great bands there,because music just connects to
people so solidly that a lot oftimes People can tell you what
the best show they ever saw wasor how we say you know the.

(57:58):
It's weird how you know new,new movies come out.
Everybody wants to see a newmovie.
Or new restaurant opens,everybody wants to go to the new
restaurant.
But a lot of times it's hard toconvince people to listen to new
music because they're always.
My theory is like the reason mydad loves like the 60s and 70s
is because that's when he was 18to 24 years old, in his
formidable years in college andwhatever, and that's the music

(58:20):
to him that like just held on tohim the best and that's why you
know my wife's loves 90s musicstill is good.
Thank you All that.
So it's interesting how that'sall Tied to it.
But the same thing can be saidabout music venues too.
I mean we we do a lot ofweddings at Shubas and Lincoln
Hall as well, because people goon their first date and we went

(58:42):
on our first date.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
We saw this incredible show, yeah, and we
want to get married there, andit's just like those types of
connections that happen, and sothat's sweet.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
To your answer, karen , about or your question
regarding taking something over,it would be great to have that
ability if there was anopportunity came along.
But again, those, a lot ofthose, those, those things
aren't, you know, just sittingout there all the time and that
has a good recognition.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Exactly you could take over, something that then
you'd have to work to try andyou know right which would have
be fun because you could takeall the experience and be like,
oh, if we could do.

Speaker 3 (59:10):
I mean because there's things that you know
Shubas or Lincoln Hall, like ifwe could just move this here, if
there was some more storage,our life would be so much easier
so you could.
If you're opening something new, you could approach it.
And because we have the brandrecognition of Of Shubas and
Lincoln Hall.
You know the oh, the.
The team behind Shubas andLincoln Hall is opening this new
place.
That'd be a lot, a lot, um,wouldn't be as Tough as someone.

(59:30):
That's just like I'm gonna opena music venue tomorrow and they
have no history in it or nobrand.
So I don't know.
We shall see.
Yeah, yeah, nice.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Well, thank you, adam , for joining us today.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
It was awesome to talk to our neighbor, yeah and
talk music in chicago and Justhad a blast hitting up a Some
tight house and yeah yeah, comeon, come on over whenever you're
uh available.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah love it.
So, karen, we just uh had ourconversation with adam and, uh,
he Started a record labelessentially called audiotree.
They discover a lot of newartists and, you know, um, I
think it is difficult to um, asan older person, kind of get

(01:00:20):
into new music, but, uh, I thinkwe're gonna, partially because
of this podcast, but partiallybecause of who we are.
I think we do a pretty good jobof that.
So, karen, why new music?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
Well, yeah, he brought up the idea um in the
second half, I believe, of Um we.
We tend to gravitate towardsthe music when we are of a
certain age I've been actuallytalking to people about this
when you're about 15 to 20something.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Um, those are kind of the formative years, and so you
, you go back like if I had Justyou know, when I'm in a bad
mood or whatever I put on 80s,it's just my happy place.
Yeah, it's home, but SometimesI I'm a person that doesn't like
to get into ruts.
I don't want to be that oldlady.

(01:01:10):
That's just like I don't know.
Back in my day we had realmusic where people played their
instruments you know, and itwasn't all AI.
And it wasn't all AI.
That is going to be veryinteresting, this whole AI thing
.

Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Well, think about the argument that people had with
you know, respect to likedigital creations, right CDs or
like you know, hip hop.
Yeah, or a keyboard Like anelectronic synthesizer, you know
Casio keyboard, anyway, yeah,anyway, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Because I can look back on music in my life where
you know I grew up playing likein bands and what not I mean in
like band but then became like aband person and I would play
shows and clubs all around.
And so it is thrilling to me tojust think back on those days

(01:02:00):
and to remember what it's liketo be a new band, you know
trying to make it and play inshows and just that love where
you are going to get into a.
You know into a van with fourof your friends and travel up
the coast for a week, and youknow it's so difficult to be in
a band.

(01:02:20):
It is so much work for so littleglory, sometimes Most of the
time, but that glory, thosemoments make it all worth it.
The late nights where you'replaying it, you know Tuesday at
1130, because you got bumped andyou know the sound guys drunk
and no one is in the audience,but you have those moments where

(01:02:43):
people are digging your shitand it is just like this is why
we do it.
So I don't know, I just stillhave that excitement when I
think I don't want to do thatanymore.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Right, right.
But you're excited for thosenew artists.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Yeah.
And when people say, oh,there's no good music, you're
not trying.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
You're being lazy and silly statements.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Yes, that's that will aid you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Yes, it will Absolutely.
Don't say that, don't listen.
Yeah, don't ever say that.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Just do yourself a favor, just get on one of these
services or whatever.
Or just ask somebody go and doyour local music store even
better and say hey, that's agreat idea, yeah.
What do you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:19):
recommend, and we I've done that with a lot of the
proprietors of the recordstores that we have had on and
they have, I got to be honest,they've never been wrong, you
know, and you know it shouldn'tbe shocking that they're not
wrong, because it's theirbusiness not to be wrong, but
they're really spot on.

(01:03:40):
I'd be like I like this and,you know, recently went into a
bucket of blood and I'm like,you know, like jam, sort of
psychedelia.
But he, you know their storesgeared towards harder stuff, and
he's like here, check out thisband, earthless, do you need?
He's like do you need lyrics,or lyrics important or not?

(01:04:02):
I mean, I was like, not alwaysI don't need lyrics.
He's like here, earthless, andI love it, and so, yeah, go
check out, you know, your localrecord store.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
It's awesome.
And then, if you are a vinylperson, look at the liner notes
and then see who played bass onthis and look them up and
realize that they played.
Based on this other thing youmight like, that's right.
Yeah, that's why new music Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
This has been an episode of Records in Real
Estate.
Thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Be Realty.
Be where you want to be and berealty.