From Teen Bands to TV Scores: The Evolution of Johnny Iguana

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Records and Real Estate, a podcast about
well, records and real estate.
You'll be entertained andinformed as we explore the
intersection of these two worldsthrough interviews with
Chicago's most interesting andsuccessful people from both
industries.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
That was Andrew Wendt and I'm Karen Sanvas.
We are Chicago real estatebrokers, property managers, avid
music lovers and your hosts ofRecords and Real Estate.
Andrew yes, karen, we justinterviewed Johnny Iguana.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Johnny Iguana From the Claudettes, from the
Claudettes.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
A very fabulous band in Chicago chicago.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, we got to see them um at old town school of
folk music yes, we did that wasa fun show.
Yeah, last week you playedmartyrs.
On thursday they played martyrsyes, they did.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I tried to go, but I was so tired me too.
Yeah, yeah but yeah, he playsall over town.
He's's in several groups.
He's a prolific writer, writesfor the TV show the Bear.

Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Which is astounding and so cool.
Yeah, yeah, really funconversation.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Yeah, I mean he's, you know he went to an Ivy
League school, he's an Englishmajor and loves to write, very
thoughtful, and you know, know,it's funny.
He, uh he sort of laments about, um, uh, like a show that he
that he would go to, or you knowconcert that he goes to, and

(01:37):
somebody asked him how it is andhe's like, oh it was, you know,
musicians, music yeah what's?
what's funny is?
I had a question that I did notask him.
I'm like you seem like amusician's musician, but to me,
you know, I mean, obviously hekind of used that in a negative
context to me, you know, there,there's there's such a things

(02:00):
that I think I've talked aboutit on another episode like, well
, there's a comics comic andthat's oftentimes, you know, the
comics comic is revered becausethey can make the comedians
laugh, right, right, you know,uh, who have a high standard of
what comedy is, and, um, yeah,we talk about this in the
interview, but he's, um, he'srevered by uh, uh, you know yeah

(02:23):
, the musician that othermusicians look up to.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Yeah exactly, yeah, I , I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah Well, let's listen to Johnny Iguana and hear
his thoughts about Chicago beef.
Well, Johnny Iguana, thank youfor being here today.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Thank you for inviting me up.
What should we call you on thispodcast Friend?

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Call me a friend, so friend, buddy.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Hey buddy, hey pal, hey, let's just start at the
beginning of this interview.
Where did Johnny Iguana comefrom?
Where did the name come from?

Speaker 3 (03:05):
So I was into like all the cool cool kids, into
punk and new wave and indie rockand stuff, and then my uncle
sent me a bunch of really greatblues records and jazz records
and I got obsessed and startedplaying piano a lot in that vein
and then I joined a blues bandwhen I was 15.
And you know meaning mom had todrive me to some things at first

(03:25):
, but then when we were 17 wewere really up and running and
playing a lot of clubs and andthat was what they were, they
already kind of existed and Ijoined and they were called
stevie lizard and his allreptile orchestra, okay, um, and
I became johnny iguana, who wasostensibly the brother of bobby
igana, the bass player, and Ialways thought growing up

(03:49):
watching Grady Bunch that it wassort of like when Vincent Price
, like they're all in Hawaii andthey all like anoint them, like
a different name you are, and Ithought like I just was sort of
named a name that I've now hadfor decades, there was something
that was chosen as a stupidjoke, arbitrarily in one second
you know, but that.
So that was dating back to thePhiladelphia suburbs.
But it was a very coolbeginning of my musical

(04:15):
awakening where we were 17,obviously in high school, and
playing in an area of ChestnutHill that was called Germantown.
That was more of aAfrican-American area and this
club was owned and run andpopulated by African-American
people and they recognized thatwe love blues and they let us be
the Monday night band.
In there we were like I don'tknow how they didn't know we
were under 21, but we, um, someof us weren't under 21, but I

(04:36):
was, and everyone had fake IDsaround them.
My friend actually in the bandmade them.
He has a business.
He would have you come over andtake a photo next to a poster
board and then another posterboard and you splice them
together.
In the age of the hologram it'sno good, but back then it was
doable, right and um.
So we were kind of heroic inhigh school where not only were
we the monday night band but 30classmates would come there and

(05:00):
drink beers and watch us playevery single one of of them
lying and I started it all abouttheir whereabouts.
But you know, we would playthree sets at warp speed.
I feel like we were sort oflike the Yardbirds or something,
you know, like white kids,super excited about blues and
R&B playing.
Like you know, mustang Sally,that everybody plays, you know

(05:20):
the tempo is like Ours was One,two, three, four, I'm not
kidding, and we did Land of aThousand Dances, but yeah, and
we were so excited and we playedway too many notes.
I have recordings of it andit's sort of like a complete

(05:42):
assault you know, because I waslistening to punk like Minuteman
and stuff too.
So it was sort of from thatpoint of view, but it was from
such a place of love anddiscovery and excitement.
But what it did do was itprepared me for my future of
meeting Junior Wells, because alot of the songs we played were
Junior Wells songs, becausethose are the blues albums we
happen to have.
And when I met him, like when Iwas 23, I I knew I had played

(06:04):
his songs hundreds of times, youknow.
So I had to learn how to playthem correctly and slower did he
school you?
yes, I mean not with words yeahyou know.
But uh, also, all of the playersin that band had been in the
bands of screaming jay hawkinsand magic sam and james cotton
and junior wells and JamesCotton and Junior Wells and
Buddy Guy and stuff.
So I was schooled by justexample.

(06:26):
How did you hook up with JuniorWells?
This is why I've ever sincethen said when in doubt go out.
Because I was living in NewYork City with my first job
after college, writing the backcovers of books they call it
cover copy.
I was an English major at theUniversity of Pennsylvania.
I wasn't sure I was going to bea musician other than for fun,

(06:46):
but I had a little keyboard setup in my tiny apartment in
Manhattan and was working in theTime Life building in New York
at a bar and he was going totake the train down visit me.
I almost didn't go because itwas raining and but I couldn't
reach him.
We didn't have cell phones.

(07:07):
I knew he was on the train sowe went out to our usual place
which was called coyote kate'sin midtown manhattan, which was
a country western bar where theentire jukebox was country
records plus like one or twoelvis records that was, and he
drank beer out of a glass boot,you know, but it was.
It was.
It was like the only the onlykind of affordable place in my
neighborhood.
It was a, you know, probablyget a pitcher of beer still, or

(07:29):
something you know, forsomething reasonable.
And so we went there to shootpool and we were, we were
disappointed to find out thatthat particular night was a very
short-lived blues jam hosted bythis guy.
So I didn't get to play poolbut I did get to sit in on this
piano because he was a keyboardplayer and he took a liking to
me and my playing.
We got to talking and realizedthat the host of this Blues Jam

(07:49):
and I had met two years earlieroutside Philadelphia at a Junior
Wells show because I tried togo sit in with Junior Wells.
When he came to my area nearPhiladelphia, keyboard player
was going to orchestrate it forme, but then he skipped the
whole second set.
He went across the street andwas trying to pick up some woman
and he missed the whole secondset, and so I couldn't wave at

(08:11):
Junior on stage and go hi.
I met the keyboard player inthe bathroom and he said maybe I
could sit in.
I just was too bashful to dothat, so I never got to play
with him, but he ended upgetting fired because of that
maneuver that night, and so whenI met him hosting that blues
jam in New York City I know I'mmuddling the story a little bit,
but consider this some sort ofreally, really clever movie
where you don't know what partof the story you're in right now

(08:33):
.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's a time-lapse problem.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
But in New York City there, having previously met
this host at that Junior Wellsdebacle, he liked my playing.
He said you know Junior'scoming to town like the day
after tomorrow to New York City.
I was like oh, and he took meto go see him and I ended up
getting a live tryout.
He talked them into.
He knew he had burned hisbridge with them but he said

(08:57):
this kid really loves Junior andreally plays his stuff really
well.
And so they had me come up andtry out live in Boston and
Providence, rhode Island, and Iended up getting that gig, which
is quite exciting.
And so my first job aftercollege lasted 11 months and
I've basically been a musicianmost of the time since.
That's incredible.
So that moved me out here forwhat I thought was going to be

(09:17):
two or three years, but that was1994.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Wow, yeah, I was about to ask, so that moved you.
That's how you got hooked upwith Chicago.
Yeah, I was about to ask, sothat moved you.
That's how you got hooked upwith Chicago.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, when I was in high school I watched Cheers and
I thought that Woody was likewhat I thought of of the Midwest
.
You know, like shopping at thePiggly Wiggly and it's still
amazing to me.
I live in the Midwest Kalamazoosounded like where the
leprechaun from Lucky Charms wasfrom, you know, when I started

(09:46):
hearing about it.
But over time I lost my.
I lost my, my superciliousness,you know, with coming from New
York city.
It's hard to move from New Yorkcity to anywhere, or, as my
friend would say, my hubrismoving from, you know, ivy
league school in New York cityto Chicago playing music, and I
was the one white kid in thisnine-person band.

(10:07):
Everyone else was like40-some-year-old
African-American players mostlyand they all had tons of
experience.
But I loved it, of course, andI kept a journal.
The drummer in the band who justdied, actually Willie Hayes,
used to turn and point at me inthe morning when I was filling
out my journal.
He'd point at me and say, mrBelvedere, going back to old

(10:28):
sitcoms, you know, remember hewould end every episode with
like right, you know, maybedipping his pen in the ink and
writing it, you know, but Ithink they were also sort of
like, hey, what you writing inthere?
Right, not everybody was up togood at all times.
Just, you know, maybe a futurebribe or blackmail tool, I don't
know we were talking off air.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
How you know, back then you don't have a record of
everything, but maybe you dowell, yeah, you know the problem
.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
One problem I've encountered is I was a recent
english major graduate and I wasso proud of my writing that I
read my writing now and it isintolerable and it's so annoying
you know how you're so excitedto like to write when you, I was
a writing major within anEnglish major.
But I find it like if I everwere to publish it in any way,
it would be a complete rewrite.
I would write it from acompletely different style.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Why was it so annoying?
What about it?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Well, first of all, my worldview was wrong.
I was 23.
I was like a fish out of waterand I just, I don't know, I find
my outlook ugly and I find mywriting style like proud and bad
I think fatuous is the wordthat I can say Stupid, with an

(11:36):
air of pride.
You know, I'm sure a lot ofpeople keep diaries and such and
maybe we all, you know, I don'tknow, maybe we all look back
and just't, maybe I'm, maybe weall look back and just marvel at
like the different time and thedifferent stage in life we were
, but I just, I just find myselflike I wouldn't like this guy
you know like that I wrote um,but I did write down the facts

(11:56):
of the matter and the eventsthat happened.
So there's value in that.
I started digitizing them awhile ago because, like right
now, if my house burns down,burns down, it's gone.
They're just in like paper, youknow, like journals.
But I have six of them.
I have like 600 pages.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Oh, that's really cool.
What time period.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
Yeah 94 to 96.
Nice, actually, I continued alittle after when I did one tour
of Otis Rush, very famous,incredible blues player, and
I've told a few people told meon that short tour if you're
ever in Chicago and you getchased by a lion, what you do is
you look for a swimming pooland jump in it.
Also, the lion is not the kingof the jungle.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
No.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
I don't remember.
I think he thought maybe thegorilla, I don't know, but but
he just started talking aboutkings of the jungle and Chicago
he was a junior, was like alittle kid where, like at one
point, like he told me to getsomething out of the glove
compartment and I open it up andthere's a dildo.
And then when I looked up andhe's just smiling at me, he's
just like he's like a child,total, like like dirty, silly,

(12:56):
young, fun, but like so smartand brilliant, but kind of like
a smiling, like laughing,laughing teenage boy or
something like that.
And Otis was very just kind ofdark and troubled.
It was really night and day.
It was very interesting how twopeople I grew up listening to
could not have been moredifferent.
And now that I think about it,if I listen to them I can kind

(13:17):
of hear it in the twinkle orlack thereof in their voices.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Do you ever think about writing a book with the
diaries that you have?

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Journalists.
I foolishly well.
You know, I've worked inpublishing quite a bit, on and
off, freelance and otherwise andI submitted at one point, like
to an agent or something kind ofa suggestion of that, like a
partial I think you'd call it apartial manuscript, you know,
and they said, maybe for like aserialized magazine piece.
But I don't see this as a book.

(13:45):
I think when I submitted it Iwas still in my 20s and and I
still didn't, probably, I thinkI could gain some perspective
and probably make a better pieceout of it now, you know, or
later.
Yeah, but I have, yeah, I Ifeel like that story is
unfolding and I'm not ready towrite something like that yet.
I'm also just, I'm not reallylike in the do you ever see the
chevy chase movie, funny farm,uh-huh, do you remember?

(14:07):
He like he relocates to likethe countryside to write a book
and and then his wife issuccessful writing a children's
book about a squirrel and hejust has one, like you know,
foible after another.
You know, I feel like I'm notready to like move to the
countryside and write right notyet, very, I have like so many
things I want to do in a day, ina month, in a year that I'm not
really writing other than justlyrics.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
Do any of those stories make it into your music,
into your lyrics?

Speaker 3 (14:35):
No, not really, I think.
Overall I do still very muchkeep a journal and I just write
down phrases or ideas that Ihear or come across that I, for
example, we have a new song theClaudettes do that I really like
, called Winter Came While youWere Gone.
And it's because we had JohnPrimer, who's a great, great
blues artist in Chicago, comeand sing a part on a new

(14:58):
Claudette song, because I thinkhe's one of the world's greatest
living soul singers, inaddition to blues guitarist, and
I had this idea for himduetting.
And he came to pick me up to goto the studio and it was like
he had gone on a tour and whenhe came back to Chicago Winter
had arrived.
Like he left when it was 70.
When he picked me up it waslike 33.
And I got into the car, his van, and I closed the door.

(15:19):
I said John, I said winter camewhile you were gone and then I
said that's a good chorus line.
It has a really good rhythm toit and all of a sudden I thought
, okay, this song's aboutsomebody who is in a
relationship and their partnerbasically bails on them,
disappears and then comes backlater wanting to resume things.
And it's like you have somenerve, Like I went through

(15:41):
really dark times and you've hada great time, and now you're
back and you'd like to rekindle,Like I went through really dark
times and you've had a greattime, and now you're back and
you'd like to rekindle.
It just seemed like it wroteitself very quickly, so I'm
generally on the lookout for asingle phrase.
A lot of them come from justradio.
I was driving and I heard theexpression influential farmers
on NPR radio and I wrote thissong called Influential Farmers.

(16:02):
That's kind of cramps-y, Ithink, Kind of like punkabilly,
you know psychabilly, and it'sjust influential butlers,
influential cobblers.
I just have all this whole song.
It's just sort of a series ofbursts of words and just, and
then there's a lot of I say so,passe in that over and over
again.
But that's what my journal hasnow, just little phrases that I

(16:25):
can flower into something elsemore so, more so than like
stories.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
I know something that happened to me or something
well, you do a really nice jobin your live shows of
introducing your songs and theyalways have just it's.
It's a very compact thing, youknow intro, but it just, you
know, gives people a sense ofyou know how how this came to,
do you?
Find that's like that doesn'thappen very often in the live
shows that I see.
Where does that come from, thatidea of introing a song and

(16:51):
telling the story behind it?

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Well, you know Billy in the band oh my God that you
know, karen.
He used to say that I want tomake sure the lyrics are getting
heard.
Like, in this mix up here thedrums aren't too loud, nothing's
too loud, because otherwisewe're a bunch of trained monkeys
up here.
You know, it's just like youknow slapping cymbals together,
just a bunch of noise.
And I do still feel that that,like, even if the mix is pretty
good and you can hear the, thewords and the singing, if a

(17:16):
little bit of context sure helpsyou, like right away,
understand where this song iscoming from, and if the song
wants to break your heart ormake you laugh or understand
that the narrator is, as anironic narrator, that it's like
the.
This narrator is someone thatwe strongly condemn.
Maybe you'll understand thathearing us do the song.
You know we have a couple songsthat are the song irregulars and

(17:37):
a song called grandkids way byby.
That got influenced by Americanpolitics and congressional show
voting.
That that really upset me.
You some years back, byAmerican politics and
congressional showboating thatreally upset me Some years back.
Paul Ryan banging a gavel andTed Cruz smiling that smile and
stuff like that when theysentenced millions of people to
poverty with tax cuts, you knowthings like this.
That just enraged me,especially just the sort of

(17:57):
chipper delivery of thisvictimless crime.
It would seem.
I just have the songs from theperspective and Rachel does this
so well just kind of crimpingher hair and just kind of
complaining Irregulars wasinspired by.
I used to shop at Marshall's.
Did you guys ever shop atMarshall's?
That's where all my clothes camefrom, because you get a shirt
that you quite like and I'm likewhy is this shirt only 14 bucks
?
Because it's missing a buttonor the, and it was labeled

(18:20):
irregular?
Yep, and had me thinking about,especially in America, I think,
how much we like regulars atcoffee shop or local people in
small towns who just knoweverybody and they're all like
you and like that.
But this song isn't for thosepeople.
This song is for irregulars,and so it really sprung from my
complete acidic distaste for theword illegals, which doesn't
exist.
You know illegals, you know, butwe call them irregulars instead

(18:42):
.
And will you fill out thisquestionnaire Do you want
irregulars here?
But I wanted to make sure thatpeople know that we're not
asking that question.
The narrator in our littlestory here is asking that
question.
So I think it's good to, and Ido try to condense, because I
can go on and on and I want 90%of our show or more to be music.

(19:05):
I don't want there to be awhole.
It's not like a spoken word act, you know.
But I do like to set up andI'll look.
I'll look through the wholeshow and space out the song.
So I'll say like maybe if we'redoing 20 songs, there'll be
four songs that have sizableintros or something like that.
Other ones may be a very shortone, but yeah, I enjoy it.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
I think it's nice.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Yeah, I have this idea, or I've had it lately,
that, maybe more so now thanever music can be anything, and
I think kind of along the linesof what you just talked about,
where you take a phrase and youkind of create a song around it.
I was listening to some of yourmusic earlier today and, for

(19:45):
example, park Bench just seemedlike and the song isn't
necessarily about a park benchjourney and you know, kind of
finding that perfect spot, butthe song is called park bench.
Did you do you ascribe to thatthat, like you know, music or
inspiration can come fromanywhere and well, yeah, I mean
that one in particular cameabout at the height of that
period.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
I was describing to you in the kitchen about, about
feeling wow, like there's thiscreeping massive darkness coming
over us and me.
I had people checking on me inlike April 2020 because they
realized, oh my god, of all thepeople I know, this person's
going to get really hit by this,because everything I was doing
was about gathering people.
You know, with two recordreleases and all these videos, I

(20:24):
had a video that got accepted.
Did you ever see the Some WillFool you illustrated video that
Dan Bigelow did.
He's the same one that did theBring Yourself, oh my God.
Video.
That illustrated video he usedto illustrate for like a
metalocalypse.
He's a great.
He does a lot of great work.
He lives in California and youknow, six month project of
hand-drawn illustration kind ofthing.
He did this Samba Fuyu videofor us that you should see from

(20:47):
the Claudette.
It's so beautiful and heavy.
And it got entered into filmfestivals all around the world
in many countries, includingreally good ones in California
and stuff, all of which becameeither virtual or canceled
because they were all 2020.
That was just one of the manythings that would make you grown
like that.
Park Bench was written at a timewhere I felt like I've got

(21:07):
plenty going for me and I've gota house full of people that
love me, and yet like happinessseems very far out of reach for
me right now.
So it was really just abouthaving it all and feeling like
you want none of that.
You want other things, you know, and just kind of darkness.
But as is often the case, youknow, the music is quite bouncy.

(21:29):
You know I don't really like asad song with minor violin
passages, you know I mean, ofcourse I do too, but I tend to,
you know.
I'm sure we all like songswhere it goes against type.
You know the music and thelyrics are seem to point
different directions.
Yeah, so I like.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
LCD sound system.
They do that as a song aboutthe guy's therapist dies and
it's this great dancey song.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
But the lyrics are really touchingly sad.
Yeah, yeah, beautiful.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
You do a really nice job, like your.
Your shows are so I use theword ferocious to describe you
guys, cause it's just, it's likehard driving, amazingly rich
music.
But then there's these momentsin the show that you just hit
the audience with this beautiful, delicate quiet, like love song

(22:18):
or just so how do you?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
I don't know where do those things come from, as
opposed to Well it's.
I mean, I'm disappointed atthat.
So I have a term for when Icome home from a show and
someone says, how was that show?
I go oh, it was musicians.
Music, you know.
If it's people up theredisplaying their skills and
their instruments, I'm so boredLike I don't want to see that, I
want to get, I want them to bemoved, to move me.
You know, I mean, you knowthat's the magic spot is, if you

(22:46):
can move yourself with your ownsongs, then it's going to be
easy to have a good show withimpact and songs you've played
over and over again.
So how do you make them fresh?
Yeah, well, I mean, you know,if you have to try to play a
trick on yourself and inhabitthe place of origin of the song,
and I I'm disappointed to playshows where another another
thing if I see a band that'sbasically just playing a good

(23:08):
snappy beat and people aretapping their toe and it's good
the whole time, I'll say a funkygood times.
How about it for the funky goodtimes?
You know like that and I'm likeif we have to play a show, the
band will know what I mean.
If, like, okay, we're doingthis show, I'm making the set
list this way because we'regoing to be the funky good times
at that show.
It's outdoors, people are goingto be walking by, people are

(23:35):
going to be drinking and talkingand we just have to, like, keep
them entertained with bouncybeats.
So there will be no ballads.
I'm not putting our singer outthere to like break her own
heart and break their heart andhave people go.
Oh good, we can hear each otherand just talk over it, right,
you know.
So I like to play listeningrooms with energy.
That's what I a look, a littlecrowd expecting a little chamber
orchestra.
It's, you know, it's there.

(24:01):
They're ready to see a goodblues band or anything.
But if you break it down, thatthey're not gonna chitchat thing
, it's understood.
The culture of this room isthat we're here to listen, have
a good time, you know.
But don't like, because eventhe other night when we played,
as we broke it down, there were,you know, all it takes is a
handful If you have 120 peoplein there.
If there's like two tables withfour people, that are like oh
good, now we can hear ourselves.
Of course, it makes me want toget combative and say why did

(24:23):
you pay $20 to get in here?
Just, you can talk anywhereelse.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Yeah.
Or like by the bathrooms.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
Yeah, or just a different building, their own
neighborhood.
But I always crave and I lookforward to on the calendar shows
and I can make a set list wherewe're gonna, we're gonna, we're
gonna um, bring it up and we'regonna bring it down.
Yeah, I think it's so much more, you know, an honest depiction
of what our lives are like,where our moods are so many
different places and you feellike you want to laugh and cry

(24:51):
in sequence and that's what wetry to do, it with the sets too.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
You know yeah, that's amazing that you know.
I mean not a lot of bands, Idon't think could do that.
Or maybe there are plenty ofbands, but not all of them could
sort of tailor their set listor tailor their songs to the
specific audience and you knowvenue in a way that it's sort of
I mean we get, it's sort of Imean we have debates about that
within the band.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Because if you really you know, if your band is in a
really great place and you'recalling the shots on where
you're playing and how long theset list is, you know, I feel
like you're rising up.
When you're a group and you'replaying good venues and they're
telling you how long you'resupposed to play and when you're
supposed to start and stop,then if you're really successful

(25:34):
, you're going to get to a pointwhere you're telling them like
no, no, no, our set starts atthis time.
We're doing this amount of timeand you're going to bend to our
will.
But I think of us as a theaterband like Nick Cave, because
Nick Cave can get 3,000, 4,000people to be quiet, but then you
don't see him on a lot of billsthat are outdoor, where there's
more like the Derek Trucks, youknow Trotsky Trucks or

(25:57):
something like that, where theywant something that you know
Trombone Shorty or somethingwhere you're going to get like,
okay, this is for like it's notjust all the funky good times.
There's a lot of good artistshere, but you know there's, but
you know, in a way it would bebetter if we did have a set that
was impervious.
I feel like, in a way, we'renot impervious yet.

(26:19):
We're still playing in venueswhere we're not calling the
shots.
And the better we write, thebetter we play, then our
imperviousness will rise.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, I like that.
Yeah, Did you have that with?
Oh my God, did you get there,oh my?

Speaker 3 (26:33):
God, we had very little that was quiet, and if
they were, it wasn't as pin dropquiet as this.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
February 14th though.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, but it still has a solid beat all the way
through it pretty much.
Yeah, I guess you're right andthe places that we were playing.
That was a different time in away, where many towns we played
to 10 people and then 60, andthen 120, 120 and then 300,
where it's like those people inthose rooms were there to see us
.
So it was kind of rare that wefelt, and when we did find

(27:04):
ourselves in a situation wherethere were just people there and
we were playing also and peoplewere talking, billy would moon
them.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Billy was amazing.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
He'd pull his pants down for their viewing pleasure.
Yeah, he'd pull his pants downfor their viewing pleasure.
Yeah, he'd get into it.
Also, did you ever see him walkaround the room and stand on
the bar to shut off all the TVs?
No, that's a good one he wouldnot tolerate a room where
there's also TVs on.
That's where the song FoolsWant Noise comes from, just like
no, let's do one thing at once.
But that's also how theClaudette started our

(27:38):
mise-en-scene.
When we first started playing,I had just gotten back from
playing like Montreux JazzFestival and you know top stages
in the world.
And then here I am again withmy new band playing at like a
tavern and there's a hockey gameon.
You know so what we did in thatband.
I don't know if you saw theearly, early claudettes or I've
seen footage.
You can find footage of usplaying in blockbuster video and

(28:01):
staples.
I somehow could wink thesepeople into letting us play, but
what we did was we brought ourown little stage set where we
brought scrolling drink specialson an led thing that I had a
lot of fun with the comedy of it.
So they're scrolling drinkspecials on our stage.
And we hired a couple differentwomen, starting with this one
that was my local bartender atthe Intertown Pub, because I

(28:22):
just thought she was sort of funto look at and just would be
pleasant as a visual part of theshow.
We would have her interrupt uswhile we were playing and take
phone calls and also sell beersfrom the stage and encourage
people to come up to the stage.
We basically made the stageinto our own shitty little
tavern yeah, you know, withscrolling drink specials.

(28:43):
So basically the place couldn'tdo that to us.
We did it already.
Yeah, we were playing in our own.
So we'd say welcome toClaudette's Bar and this is
Claudette up here and she wouldsometimes interrupt us to take a
call and then tell us to startplaying again.
Just sort of just the liketotal deletion of dignity, that
sometimes it feels like playinga place where, again, you're one

(29:04):
of a number of things going on,including a hockey game and
talking and stuff, and you'realso playing Once you get to a
certain age.
That's just sort of like.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
I am a failure.
You know, I'm like one of anumber.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
I want to be the cause of the traffic jam.
I don't want to be late tothink I want to be.
Oh, this claudette show is intown.
That's why there's a trafficjam.
I don't want to, like onceagain, fall victim to all.
The bills are in the playoffs.
No one's going to come tonight.
You know like.
You know like I want.
I want to be the bigger thing,not the smaller thing you turn
the tide on yourself and madethe whole thing a joke.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
At a Blockbuster video that was inside the store.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
Yeah, on Google, I mean on YouTube you can Google
Claudette's Blockbuster.
It was at a Blockbuster videoand we pretended that Claudette,
our overlord, wanted us to play.
She's like don't play at theseloser sort of almost like
shithole places, you know likethe Hideout or something like
that.
You know like that Play at aousPlace like Blockbuster and the

(29:56):
one that's on YouTube from usplaying at Staples back when
there were Staples, it says theClaudette's live at Staples
Center, parentheses, center ofStaples store and there are
customers walking around lookingat us like and it's real
footage of us, like just Michaeland me playing piano and drums
with there was this woman namedLizbeth who went with us for a
while, who just stood at the atthe bar and kind of you know,

(30:18):
was supposed to be sort of thehostess, you know, at our tavern
.
Yeah, you can find both thoseon, on, on on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
We'll link it.
That's so fun In our show notes.

Speaker 1 (30:27):
Karen used the word ferocious to describe you guys
earlier.
Not songs, I mean.
We write nothing but likescoring you know, just
instrumental pieces.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
They have songs on there.
That's like what you'd call thesoundtrack, where they have,
like Genesis and ACDC and stuff,a lot of Wilco, nine Inch Nails
, trent Reznor music.
But JQ and I, who had a bandcalled them Versus them, we've
been writing together a longtime, playing and recording
together and that opportunitycame his way and we had to
deliver on the goods Like therewas.

(30:59):
You know, they have noobligation to use the pieces.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
It was an opportunity .

Speaker 3 (31:04):
And now we're.
You know, we're working onseason three now, so we've made
good on it and we're very goodat it, we're just together.
We have a great complimentaryskill set where he sets up the
sessions.
He's very good with compressionand all this.
He's like a studio guy.
He has all the equipment andhe's makes.
He's a beat master with likebeats and just like you know,

(31:26):
swells and kind of the sort ofthe production elements you know
he's great with and and yethe's not really like a chord and
melody guy.
You know, that's like that's mything.
So we're able to do everythingfrom kind of like they sent us a
Hans Zimmer piece as like anexample, really, like you know,
symphony, because he has logicwith all the updated sound banks

(31:49):
and I'm telling you, like thestrings, the pizzicato strings,
all the percussive elements, thequality of these sounds has
gone through the roof.
Like it's sad news for a cellist, you know, in a way Like if you
just want one cello drone, thisis like it's a little silly to
like hire someone to come inthere and play that.
If you want to have a wholepiece played by like an

(32:09):
orchestra with, like you know,because we don't write like real
full-on string quartet typestuff but if the piece is going
to have like a little digital,like a little pulse to it and a
little almost synth breeze to it, something icy and then like a
cello drone and that kind ofthing, these sounds are
beautiful and rich and so we didthat.

(32:29):
But also, if they wantsomething kind of punky or
something kind of bluesy or likeso many different things, we
and everything we we compose forthem is, like you know, 30 or
50 seconds or something kind ofbluesy or like so many different
things, and everything wecomposed for them is, like you
know, 30 or 50 seconds orsomething like that?

Speaker 2 (32:40):
How does it work?
Do they send you the footageand say, you know, here's the
scene and here's the backstory?

Speaker 3 (32:43):
That's how it was at first, for the first season, we
didn't even know if the show wasgoing to be a going concern.
You know, maybe it was justgoing to be a pilot or who knows
.
But going to be a pilot, or whoknows.
But they sent us some scenesand we and we wrote for that,
and then since then we'vestarted kind of turning the

(33:04):
tables and and as the season isabout to get underway for
production, we just loaded themup full of themes of different
uh moods and energies uh and andkind of styles and in fact some
of the stuff that we justpractically improvised and made,
that we thought were reallycool little things became kind
of like the season two theme,like there's this one pizzicato
string thing I did.
That's very we.
What we do know is the storyarc and the kind of emotional

(33:27):
tenor of the season and andsomewhat of the plot line.
So we say, okay, we need tohave some things that are very
prickly, that are very on edge,and then there's going to be
moments of you know, more placidmoments, and so we sent them a
bunch of stuff and put them infolders and in fact they used a
whole bunch.
And one thing yeah, it's likefour different episodes,
including like the first severalminutes of the finale of this

(33:48):
piece that like like I rememberjust standing there coming up
with this while he was getting acoffee upstairs and then we
finished it and then it's justall over the season.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
That became like the theme that's really cool as the
show blew up yeah, so if Iwanted to go back to see season
one, the finale no season twoseason two finale.
What is the scene where, like I, a really good example of this.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Well, one thing I can send you is I have a 15 minute
compilation of scenes that haveour music in it on a Google.
Drive, but also just the seasontwo finale.
As it opens, they're in thekitchen and then it opens up
into the dining room and it goesback into the kitchen
alternately.
Yeah, whenever they're in thedining room it might as well be

(34:32):
like Jerry Vale singing orsomething like that, but in the
kitchen it's our music there forthe first four minutes of the
episode or something.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Okay, season two finale.
That's the one where the mom isjust Jimmy Lee Curtis.
Oh my, gosh.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Well, yeah, they didn't have any original scoring
in that episode, they just hadChristmas songs and things.
But scattered through thatseason there's a bunch that we
did, and that one that's in theseason two finale is also in
earlier episodes and introducedearlier, and then it's like kind
of dominates the beginning ofthe film.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Oh, now I definitely want to watch the whole thing
again, knowing that it's you.

Speaker 3 (35:01):
Yeah, I'll send you.
I'll send you that link withthe compilation so you'll know
which Cool.
And and for season three and Iguess four, we we've.
We're doing our best stuff.
Now we just listen back tothese things.
We just get in really goodzones.
He and I have always had thispractice of getting together.
We're not going to belabor this.
When we have this band, themversus them, we're going to come

(35:23):
up with a with like a drummachine part, a baseline, some
chords, what does the song soundlike?
It wants to be about?
Okay, it's going to be writeall the lyrics and make the
complete demo all in one likefour hour period or something
like that.
Like start musically, come upwith what it's about, write all
the lyrics and then by the timewe're done today, the song's
ready to show the band.
You know, like that sort ofstuff.

(35:43):
So we're really we got.
We kind of did that as a, asour MO for years.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
So if they're like we need this, you can crank it we
can do it, yeah, and now he'sgot like.

Speaker 3 (35:55):
The sounds we had back then were kind of hilarious
, like this very old drummachine that some of the buttons
still stuck from all the dustin it you know, and now, like
these Logic sound banks thathe's got are just out of this
world.
They're so good so I doeverything on the MIDI keyboard
and even just the piano thathe's got it sounds like a $400
dollar piano in in the perfectroom.

(36:16):
Yeah, you know, you just hitone chord and you go.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
life is beautiful I don't need anything more yeah,
are those you know, forgive me,uh, karen, is the uh, the sort
of the music engineer of the twoof us?
Are those like recorded sounds,are they?

Speaker 3 (36:32):
engineered sounds, I think.
I think these days aren't a lotof them algorithmic, like
they're not even really sampledanymore.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, they used to be .
But yeah, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
I think, like you know, for example, plug-ins that
are supposed to mimic a ratpedal or any of a number of
pedals are now algorithmic,where it's almost like breaking
something down to its DNA ratherthan just like saying, shh, I'm
going to record this.
I think it's actually likescience, you know, it's like.
You know it's like it is it?
You know?

(37:02):
So it's like.
I think it's extraordinary.
Yeah, I don't.
I'm sure, jake, you wouldanswer that better than I could,
but all of the sounds that hebrings, and also the synths,
like the analog synths and withthe portamento on them, they're
just like.
I have the synths around myhouse and these sounds are just
better but you love the endproduct, right?

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I mean like you appreciate that that even even
if it's algorithmic, it's partof oh yeah, no, the sounds make
it, make the whole thing really,you know, easier.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
We're not battling sounds at all those are just.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
But that purest idea of, oh, it has to be a real
cello like you, don't buy intothat.
If it's beautiful, it'sbeautiful.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
It's also again, it's like heartbreak territory for
some people that, like you knowup until recently, now they're
having to teach you know ratherthan perform, because there's
you know.
I mean, I still think when itcomes to like a CSO concert
that's not being replaced byLogic you know and MIDI, right
Again, it goes back to being inperson, yeah.
I mean.

(37:59):
My dad on the phone last nighttold me he was very excited
about reading the new CSOdirector, who's 31 years old and
supposed to be a real dynamo.
I hadn't read the piece.
I said Moody's not still inthere.
He said no, moody's likeemeritus now or something.
I think, but yeah, I don't thinkalready live music of all kinds
has taken a hit where justpeople got used to staying home

(38:19):
over COVID and it's cheaper tostay home when the economy is
bad and I'm not going to catchanything if I go out.
And also like a golden age oftelevision where everyone's
talking about binge watching,which is I'm always like why
don't you actually binge, likedrink a bunch and go out?

Speaker 1 (38:36):
Don't binge watch.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
You know, binge live, binge watching Whenever.
When anyone says I take a veryquietly combative tone on things
like Facebook with some ofthose I really want to look not
something new to binge watch.
Is there anything you recommend?
I'll just post no Completelyunhelpful waste of their feed.
But I don't.
There's nothing, Not even.
I mean, there are good shows,not even the Bear.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Not even the Bear.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
yeah, no, I mean yeah , but my point is just like
watch something sometime, butdon't have that dominate your
life, please.
Then you're going to die afterjust sitting around watching all
that TV.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, good, gravestoneCompleted all nine episodes of
the Sopranos.
Two weekends Twice yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
So you know, you talk about loving blues, you know,
and moving to Chicago.
I mean, obviously at this pointyou're Chicago-ing.

Speaker 3 (39:28):
Yeah, reluctantly, it sounds like no, you know the
way I've put it over the yearsis it ticks a lot of boxes.
You know it's affordable,there's great arts and music,
it's a great culture city.
I mean, I go to visit my folksin Florida and it is none of the
things I just said.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
I can't stand it down there.

Speaker 3 (39:50):
I only go to visit them and I still grumble my ass
off all down there.
But Chicago's, you know, it'sjust.
You know.
Moving from Philly to New Yorkand having gotten the blessing
of traveling a lot Like I justhave never, I felt like when I
was young I'd get out of thesubway in New York.
I'd be like, oh, I'm in NewYork.
I've never felt like that.
When I like arrive out of thesubway in Chicago, I just kind
of go where I'm going.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
I don't know, but there's so much history and
culture and great stuff here, Ifeel like it makes very good,
solid sense to live here.
I'm just never going to be very, very excited about it, but one
of your albums has the wordChicago in it Johnny Iguana's
Chicago Spectacular Talk alittle bit about that.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Well, that was a definite milestone for me in
that, as I said, when I grew upI listened to tons of Junior
Wells, I listened to Otis Rushand Magic Sam, and that was all
on Chicago's Delmarc Records,the longest continually running
jazz and blues label maybe inthe world.
And then I recorded that albumand Delmarc decided to put it

(40:46):
out, which was quite a thrill tosee that Delmarc logo on a
recording that I conceived andrecorded and had a bunch of
compositions on and recordedwith Lil Ed and John Primer and
recorded with little ed and johnprimer and billy boy arnold,
who's now I think 87 I think heis.
It's just got really likereally great, great, great
artists on it who all I feelvery proud that, like it all

(41:09):
came together in a way whereeverybody in it was very
involved and had a lot of funand everything you hear on there
, nothing is cobbled togetherlike done in the mix.
It's just really like what youhear is just us in a room and
everybody was so good on it.
I think it's a really greatblues record.
It got good attention.
Again, it came out in 2020.
So a little doomed in a way, andthere couldn't be any touring

(41:32):
behind it.
You know that kind of thing.
I mean I remember be anytouring behind it.
You know that kind of thing.
I mean I remember having phonecalls on who the band is going
to be and all that.
And then I mean it was finishedbefore march of 2020 and then
it came out in august.
But there was the sameconversations there were with
the claudette's record is like,should we put this out?
You know, and my feeling alwaysis yes, we're going to put it
out like I'm not delaying thiswho knows how long, like by the

(41:53):
time it comes out later.
I'm gonna be on to somethingelse yeah, exactly, you lose
momentum, yeah it's just likeit's not gonna be my moment,
it's already.
It already takes forever fromthe moment you write everything,
get the songs perfected andthen you make the tracks and
then an album comes out.
If you've got a schedule withradio and press and stuff like
that, it's generally like a yearlater than you really wanted it

(42:13):
to.
It's all right.
I I write for this musiccatalog and I'm always struck by
there are all these jazzrecords that were on Blue Note
and Verve and Impulse and stuffand it'll say it's recorded and
it'll say March 1953, releasedMay 1953.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I'm like that's what I want, you know like I want to
just finish it and put it out,not be so precious with
everything.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
I mean you think about, I write about, guided by
voices.
I cannot believe how prolificis down here and it's almost
obnoxious.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Is he still doing a lot?

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Still, I think he's at his most prolnoxious.
Is he still going?
Is he still doing a lot?
still, he, I think he's at hismost prolific and quite
acclaimed right now oh my god,okay, guided by voices is
putting out an album or doublealbum every 10 months for the
last bunch of years, seriously,yeah, and like a lot of them are
getting a lot of very goodreviews, like like he's just on
some sort of war path and Ithink it's.
It must be be some sort ofcombat against what I'm kind of

(43:11):
talking about with thepreciousness.
Obviously a lot of people areputting out singles only and
TikTok only and not albums atall.
So he's kind of probably almosta little of both.
He's wanting to be very in themoment but also album-oriented.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Okay, so maybe he's an outlier, but from my
perspective, it seems likeyou're doing a lot and making a
lot of things happen.

Speaker 3 (43:34):
Yeah, but when I get involved with other partners,
like a label manager and bookingagent, everything is set up so
far in the future and everyonewants to line up everything.
As I'm talking, I feel like Ishould learn some lessons from
my own endless chatter.
But yeah, it just ends up,you've like right now.

(43:55):
For example, there was a labelat our show the other night and
he was interested in what we'redoing and he said well, we're
all set for 2024 already, butyou know, maybe we can look to
2025 and everything is.
I feel like everything islooking for, like everything is
like we're not gonna haveanother festival this year, but
maybe next year.
I was like none of us are goingto be alive then.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
What are you even talking about?

Speaker 3 (44:18):
Very, very far-fetched.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
Do you have any favorite places to play in
Chicago?
I mean, I guess it depends onthe band you're with, but I only
play Chicago.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
I mean, I guess it depends on the band you're with,
I only play Chicago, I meanwith the Claudettes, twice a
year or so, maybe three, I meanif we do a summer outdoor thing,
maybe like three.
But I've always liked to getaround and go and travel and
play a whole bunch of places twoor three times a year In
Chicago.
I mean we like the hideout, welike Evanston Space, we like
Fitzgerald's, we've played CityWinery, we've played Empty

(44:54):
Bottle, we've played Buddy Guy'sLegends, we've played a lot of
different places.
But most recently it tends to beEvanston Space and Fitzgerald's
Nice, and I would like ouryear-end show to be at Evanston
Space.
Let's say that's just a reallygood place to play.
To be at Evanston Space, let'ssay that's just a.
It's a really good place toplay in a room that has some
energy, but you can break it allthe way down and I can play
their.
I play their acoustic pianothere.

(45:16):
That not only is a big laborsavings, and you know every time
now.
So my piano, my digital Rolandpiano in its case, weighs 70
pounds.
So every time in front of theband when I'm out there, often
in the winter, or something Itake and I hoist it and I throw
it in the van, I say I've got 41more of those in me, meaning we
all got to practice a lot andget someone else doing this soon

(45:38):
, because I can't forever beloading that 70-pound piano into
that van.
So all it is is we got to getbetter fast.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Full-time roadie.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
Yeah, so for that budget to have someone, yeah,
for that budget to have someoneAlso even just going out on
stage and setting up and doingsoundcheck.
I'm like, can't someone else dothis?
When I go overseas and play asa piano player for others,
that's what it is.
There's a Hammond and there's apiano and I just walk out and
play it like I'm a superstar andthen afterwards it's your
problem.
Now I'm going to go to theparty.

(46:07):
But that's not the reality forme and my bands.
Like, yes, it never has, oh myGod, worked really.
I mean, we did 140 shows in ayear once, and, and we hit the
West coast twice and East coasttwice in a year and all around
the Midwest and put on all thosemiles and and and it was, it
was, I guess you'd say it'sworking really hard.
But one thing that puzzled mewhen I moved to Chicago was so I

(46:28):
was 23.
I to chicago was so I was 23.
I joined the junior wells bandand the road manager said to me
on the way to one of my firstgigs here, he said, uh, it was
like we were playing on awednesday.
He said, so you're working thisweekend and I said, no, I've
got a gig.
And he said, no, that's what Imeant, like they call it working
.
To me music is playing, right,it's like a kid in the sandbox.
I was puzzled by this idea aboutyou working.
Yeah, it's like.
No, it's like.

(46:48):
That's why I do music, so it'slike that's playing.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I mean it's like kind of a nice rite of passage of
all of a sudden being like ohyeah, I'm working and I'm
playing, yeah, I suppose, but itstill feels weird to me, but
like about, like you know, we'vebeen working, you've been
working a lot yeah no, I've beenplaying musicals so much yeah
like my ditch digging days areover.
It's nice to see somebody that'sbeen so in it for so long still
have that passion Because, youknow, sometimes you go to see

(47:14):
bands and it's musicians thatare backing them up and they've
been there for a hundred years.
They're just doing their thing.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
Yeah, well, you know, it's like the atrocities in the
world, the corruptions and massmurders and smaller, sadder
things closer to you, deaths offriends and family.
Everything to me leads me backinto this one funnel of like it
only makes sense to play musicand I don't know how people get
by without it.
I think if every household wasmandated to have some kind of

(47:41):
piano in it, and from the peoplethat are young and old would
just occasionally sit down andfeel what it feels like to just
I call it Ouija boarding, tojust move your hands around.
And so if my hands are likethis, it's a D minor seven.
Then I go like this it's an Eminor seven, but then I move it
a little more, it's an F, majorseven.
That's interesting.
Then it's a G seven.
If I go like this, and just youdon't even think about that,

(48:02):
though it's just a differentsound Move your hands around.
It's such a soul soothing thingthat I think there'd just be so
much less like just a.
You know grievances and peoplewould be less upset if they
could just make those soundsmore often.
And on a piano is a good one.
It's got that landscape that aguitar to me is more like a
contraption.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
It's like and you can't.
It doesn't have a landscape.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
I don't you know, cause the black and white keys.
It's just sort of like it'snatural, it makes sense.
I mean, to a guitar player, aguitar makes sense and a piano
doesn't.
But I'm saying just to havethat in the corner everywhere.
I really do think that wouldtemperature.
The temperature would go downin general.

(48:45):
So like yeah, all the thingsthat upset me, unless everyone
gets upset, leads me back tolike, yeah, just, I don't know
how people get by without.
If all you did was like workand maybe go to Disney World or
something Like you know, it'slike being able to just make
music of any kind, like it'sjust such a savior it feels like
still, definitely even more soyou know, because more things
you know, you get older, morethings are truly upsetting,
because you understand, you havemore perspective on the

(49:09):
enormity of things.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Totally, totally.
Yeah, I use it as sort of anescape.
You know, if I'm at my parents'house and they're driving me
crazy, I'm like put on theheadphones and just start
playing my piano.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Yeah, yeah Right.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yeah, it's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
Well, that was really lovely.
We need to take just a quickbreak.
We'll come back with uh, johnnyiguana.
Yes, cool hi, karen hi andrewuh, is it time for our record of
the week.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
Record of the week.
Yes, do you have one?

Speaker 1 (49:42):
uh, I do.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
I don't have a ton to say about it it's okay, people
can look it up and listen to.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah so there's a artist.
Her name is Sierra Farrell.
She just came out with hersophomore album called Trail of
Flowers.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Is that Sierra with an S or a C?

Speak (49:59):
S-I-E-R-R-A-F-E-R-R-E-L-L .
Okay, double letters.
It's a lovely album.
She's, you know, sort of one ofthese Nashvilleian artists.
Seems like a lot of good stuffcoming out of Nashville these
days through way of WestVirginia.
It definitely you know countryundertones, but way more dynamic

(50:22):
.
I mean, I would say a littlerockabilly, a little sort of
carnival music mixed in there,but lovely lyrics, great
songwriting.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
What would be an ideal scenario where you would
put this on yeah.
What would you be doing?

Speaker 1 (50:38):
I mean both as sort of background music, but also if
you wanted to sit down andlisten to a really wonderful
start-to-finish album and she'sgetting a lot of press,
wonderful, you know, start tofinish album and she's getting a
lot of press, um, and and alsosort of so I I put the album on
at at Easter, uh, when we had uhfamily over Laura's family and
Laura's um younger cousin who'sa hip in her late twenties was

(51:02):
like oh, is this Sierra Farrell?

Speaker 3 (51:04):
She's like.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Oh, and there was also my friend who I'm going to
show with.
He put it on when he wasvisiting family in Texas and the
daughter of a friend who's likein her teens said oh, this is
Sierra Farrell.
I love her.
So you know yeah, check it out.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Sierra Farrell.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Trail of Flowers.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Great.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Well, we're back with the iguana.
Thank you for being here.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yes, I'm happy to be here.
And where are we?
Belmont.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yes, roughly Belmont.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
Wait what?
Oh, it's Belmont and Sheffield,so we're not.
We're not far.
I came from a different way,but we're pretty close to the
Vic here.
I used to say the two bestthings about Chicago when I
moved here were Brew and Viewand the Tamale guy.
Sure, you know.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
Sometimes on the same night.
You probably saw him.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah Well, brew and View in its heyday it was so
cheap and drinking there wascheap and they would have like
two or three movies and acostume show.
It was so fun.
Yeah, I remember there was likea Travolta night and it was
like Pulp Fiction, get Shortyand Saturday Night Fever and
some kind of contest in betweenand it was like five bucks or
something.
And there was a Monty Pythonnight.

(52:15):
They had Holy Grail and theyhad people doing a parade or
costumes and then it must havegotten very expensive to get
those reels or something,because over time it became just
a not very good second-runmovie theater.
Right and not cheap anymore.
But that was Vic.
I spent a lot of time there,somehow before the smoking ban.
I was so obnoxious I guess Iwould get a chair and I would

(52:38):
sit at the front ahead of allthe seats there and find a chair
and I would smoke a cigar butpeople were smoking cigarettes
like crazy in there.
Yeah, this was before they.
Everyone was smoking and so I'mlike I'm going to smoke a cigar
, I'm going to.
Also, the sound was so bad inthere because they just have the
speakers in the front.
They don't have speakers likethroughout.
So I would sit close to thespeakers.

(52:59):
I'm like, why is no onestopping me?
I'm going to do this unlessthey stop me, take your own
chair and sit right in front.
I didn't block on, like thestanding room where, like you,
the pit yeah you know, I'd soundlike in the pit and people
would be like back there furtherfrom the speakers.
Oh my god, I wasn't blocking it, but no one ever stopped me
yeah, they probably thought youowned the theater.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, vip section I just brought my own velvet rope
only the only the owner wouldset up a chair and smoke a cigar
right in front.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
Yeah right, yeah, churchill too, this guy means
something.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
Uh yeah, the vic.
So I recently that I do likethese short little videos and I
did some research on the vic.
But the vic was a movie housebasically for, like, whatever
ethnicity was predominant in inlakeview and that you know,
german and I wish I was thinkingyeah yeah.
So, uh, you know, speaking ofthe vic, speaking of where we're
at, you know, uh, you've beenin chicago for a long time.

(53:50):
You've you know, any favoriteneighborhoods that you've lived
at or anything that like comesup in your writing, or
apartments.

Speaker 3 (53:58):
I hate moving.
So when I moved here I had tosuddenly move because I was
working at Warner Books in NewYork when I got this Junior
Wells gig and I didn't knowanything about Chicago Newell's
gig and I didn't know anythingabout Chicago.
But somebody I worked with inNew York knew somebody in
Chicago who got a job for theBaltimore Sun and had to move
out of town quickly.
So I subletted their apartmentin Lincoln Park, so it was

(54:20):
Orchard and Wrightwood, so youprobably know where that is
roughly, and I lived there 1994to 2001.
And then I was in this band.
Oh my God, that needed topractice a lot and I was tired
of lugging the organ and theLeslie speaker and all this
stuff to practice spaces.
You know you spent two-thirdsof your time breaking up and
setting down in such a drag so Iwas like I need a practice

(54:41):
space in my house.
So we were going to get a houseand we looked around for a
while and we found this housewhere we are now at Damon and
Augusta Ukrainian village andthe neighborhood had recently
been kind of declared safe.
You know, at the time, you knowI actually was just telling
someone yesterday that I read abook by a former Chicago gang
member who had kind of changedhis life and now was helping

(55:04):
kids to avoid that life.
But his story, a realcautionary tale of you know
initiation killings and all ofthe brutality and you know
sexual assaults and everythingthat happened with with with
gangs.
Most of it was set walkingdistance from where I live right
now.
It was like around North andWestern.
You know that was like theepicenter in like the maybe like

(55:26):
eighties, early nineties, andwe moved there 2001.
So it wasn't, it wasn, wasn't,didn't seem like that anymore,
yeah, but uh, I guess that youknow, and I remember some
friends in the 90s moving out tolike what's now I, I guess I
well, I think like humboldt park, and they said, oh yeah, this
neighborhood's like up andcoming and then, like they moved
out a few years later, beinglike I gotta get out of here,

(55:46):
you know, it just felt verydangerous.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you used to.
You know the old adage used tosay and never go west to western
except for and I saw that youyou got to play there when you
went to roses oh, thatneighborhood.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
I can't believe that neighborhood around roses.
Now I go to sit in or go seesomeone there and it's like
gastropubs galore, yeah.
Yeah, it's really nice like wewent.
We went, we made like a dinnerand a show kind of a few months
ago and like so many choices ofplaces right near there.
You're right, I mean, that'skind of close to where they
lived and now it's like it'skind of really built up and it's

(56:21):
really quite nice Italianrestaurants and these bars and
really like hip spots.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
What area is that?

Speaker 3 (56:26):
That's 3400 West.
So Armitage and kimball kind ofaround there, but just you know
a few blocks and also what I'mcalifornia, you right?
I mean, like you know we're,we're on augusta where we live.
So just headed west you go tocalifornia and there's there's
the california clipper and thenthere there's that uh, italian
restaurant you can't get intothis right there, and there was

(56:47):
a great bakery right there andusually what we like to ride
bikes on the 606 and then we'llride home on a on california a
lot, and there's just I see allthese really place.
I'm like that place looks cute,we gotta go there, like I'm
like.
I'm like I'm just kind of funny.
I'm talking about californiahere, like the west side, you
know, like that.
But these places are likereally hip looking places over
there 606 was a great additionto that side of it.

(57:10):
We get a lot of use out of it,especially when that stupid
pandemic hit.
We walked and more often, rodebikes on there all the time,
because you just go andbeautiful sunshine and then you
can get off and go to differentcoffee shops, restaurants it's
so much like Mexican fair andcoffee shops and stuff just
right off of there when you headwest.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
I'm surprised that they didn't close it down.
I I'm kind of confused becauseI live on the walking path along
Sheridan road up, you know,north, and the mayor closed all
the beaches and all of thewalking paths and no one was
allowed to use any of them.
They had cups all around and sowhy didn't they close the six

(57:50):
of seven?

Speaker 3 (57:50):
I don't want them to, Because that's when they kind
of felt like we should havethose old-timey gas masks on
around us like no one breathingin there.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
No congregating, yeah , no congregating, so you
couldn't even take a walk.
Did they close the?

Speaker 3 (58:03):
Sixth of Sin.
I don't know if they I don'tthink they did.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
That's what I'm saying.
Why did they close and not yourthing?
Maybe the sheer number of thesheer population of the places
or something, I don't know?
Yeah, I mean, everybody mighthave gone to the lake and just
you know, enjoyed time on thewalking paths or something like
that.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Well, now I'm mad yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
All right you should have and of course, now we know
that being outside seems fine,Like that's the idea.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Exactly.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
I could see spot like with no ventilation, but yeah
the beach seems advisable.
Yeah, that's crazy Crazy times,yeah, but so we, we, we only
lived in two places since we'vebeen here.
So I've been here, for now it's30 years.
I've been in Chicago Wow, Ithought it was going to be three

(58:44):
or so but but.
But we, but we lived in LincolnPark, which I never had any
particular affection for.
I got tired of waking uphearing what sounded like a
couple of like just graduatedfrat brothers drunkenly walking
down my alley.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
I'm like, oh, I hate, it here.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
That's still what I think of when I think of that
area, but maybe it's changed.
I don't know.
I know that it used to be likeAlice's Restaurant, I think was
in Lincoln Park.
Like it was like a hippieepicenter for Chicago decades
ago.
But when I was there itcertainly was not.
But I love my neighborhood,ukrainian Village.
I mean we just had a friendwho's a DJ at St Louis come

(59:25):
visit us.
I've stayed at his house abunch of times.
He's a radio DJ down there andI've always said I've stayed at
his house, I'm likeno-transcript.

(59:52):
And then if you had instead, ifyou take a left and you head
east on Chicago, it's all theselike taquerias, mexican, and
then you know Puerto Rican andCuban places, you know, and it's
just so cool that like I've gotall that within a walk, you
know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
And I know that Chicago has, like you know, such
great neighborhoods with.
You know, if you're just goingto put it in terms of food or
groceries, you know Asian andand and Polish and German.
You know our friends in Lincolnsquare.
You know they have the Germanfest up there and it is.
It is pretty great All thedifferent neighborhoods that
celebrate that.
You know the neighborhoodhistory.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Yeah, and keep it alive too.
I mean, you know, asgentrification marches on,
sometimes those things getswallowed up.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
And you know there's the fusion restaurants.
When I lived in New York, areally popular thing was Cuban
Chinese.
There were these Cuban Chineserestaurants that would have like
rice and black beans but withAsian-type treatments to them,
and it was really cheap.
That's part of the reason itwas really popular.
But in my neighborhood,enhacori, it's like burritos,

(01:01:01):
but instead of a flour tortillait's seaweed on the outside, and
then they have tacos that arelike that too.
That was really good.
Some fusions make sense.
One fusion that does not makesense for me is the Chicago
phenomenon.
We just got into this.
You know, I grew up in thePhilly cheesesteaks.
The Chicago beef like sandwichmakes no sense to me.
It's like I described this salty, gray, soggy beef soaking

(01:01:24):
through a lousy roll with likesoggy salty green peppers in it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Like it's inedible food.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
That's your new york coming yeah, it is, and my
philly coming out in particular.
But then the thing that reallymakes no sense is the combo
where they bung a sausage in themiddle of what I just said.
How is this like a recipe?

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
you know, it's like a pizza or sundae with too many
toppings and it's just like it'slike it just becomes mush, you
know, like a hodgepodge, youknow you better be careful that
the producers of the bear don'thear this episode.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
You know what that?
That's such a it's even such aminor part of the.
As it turns out, that's likefine dining kind of thing.
You know, like that is thebackground.
But no, the chicago beef doesstill.
I remember in the junior wellsvan them said them saying like I
don't get the phillycheesesteak.
I'm like, well, I don't get thechicago beef.
First of all, the rolls are sogood on the east coast, like

(01:02:14):
bread is so good.
This is not a bread town.
This part of the country is notfor bread we eat a lot of it,
but it's not yeah, bread is not.
I mean, if you get publicanbread for like two to two bucks
a slice, it's good, you know,but general like the sandwich
bread at places.
Don't even start me onsubwayway, man Subway, that was
an atrocity to me growing upwhen Subway came out, because

(01:02:35):
it's like you know I'm used tolike every corner place has
great hoagies, you know, likethe rolls are so good and
everything, and I thought thatwas an abomination myself.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
I mean over-engineered, I mean you're
talking about spongy likeplasticky bread.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
You know, for Nowadays actually plasticky, not
reminiscent of plastic, butcontaining plastic.
Not microplastic.
I've got an idea.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Let's make bread with plastic in it, it's cheaper.
It's cheaper, good God.

Speaker 3 (01:03:07):
Yesterday I was watching one of the many
Simpsons that I have on VHStapes and Marge asked Homer to
do something and he goes.
What's the point?
We're all slowly dying, andthat's what I feel like it might
be.
It might be the idea with theplastics.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Who cares?

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Actually, lex and I have an expression that we use
when people, I think, are veryfussy about their lifestyle and
what's bad for you and whatgeneral you know with sort of
when we would call crunchy, aslikes to call it crunchy sort of
hippie ideas about.
Like you know, it's a good ideain general to watch out for your
health and eat and drink theright way and exercise.

(01:03:42):
But there was this guy a fewyears ago maybe you heard this
story, I don't remember where hewas, but he was a collector of
exotic birds and he hadsomething ostrich sized but more
dangerous, some sort of largebird.
And this, oh this, this olderman who had this pet, fell in
the yard and the bird takes itlike what?
You're not supposed to fall andexpose your neck to a bird like

(01:04:04):
this, because it slashed hisneck and he died.
And and it was his own petbecause he, because he happened
to fall, and it like maybe itwas presented as being, maybe it
was his own pet because he,because he happened to fall, and
it like maybe it was presentedas being, maybe it was
frightening or just submissiveor whatever it was the bird took
it and slashed him.
And so, lex and I always, wheneveryone's like, yeah, I've been
, I've been taking thesetinctures and I've been, uh,
eating a lot of garlic and I'llbe like we'll say you're gonna

(01:04:25):
get killed by a bird you know orlike even her own folks.
le Lex's own folks are so COVID,paranoid.
Still to this day they won't goto a restaurant with a lot of
people in it.
And it's just to me it's alittle arrogant to like to know
what you have a fortune cookiefor yourself, that you know how
you're going to, what's going toget you.
It's like it's going to be somekind of syndrome or some kind
of accident or something it'slike be generally but also take

(01:04:47):
chances, take risks, haveadventures, have romance.
Like don't just be too carefulabout things all the time.
I always believe you should getup at this hour and go to sleep
by this hour and wear theseglasses, block out this light
and eat this, You're going toget killed by a bird.
You know that right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Did you hear the story about this, camus?

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
got run over by a bus .
Who did Camus?
Who rode like the stranger.
You who rode like the stranger,you know, he died getting hit
by a city bus.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
It's like he didn't know.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Maybe he got up that morning, went for a jog and got
hit by a bus.
You see, so so just do thethings you want.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Did you hear the story about the space station?
There was like a panel thatcame off the space station and
landed, sliced throughsomebody's house and almost
killed this yeah, I think I sawthat like just recent fucking
space station.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
Yeah, I was yeah that's in the same column as
being killed by your bird right,yeah, like that yeah.
So go ahead.
Like, basically, what I'msaying is, if you're gonna deny
yourself a lot of things becausethey're bad, if he's like
you're gonna, there's just asgood of a chance you're gonna
something out of the blue isgonna do it for you or, you know
, make you say whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
So yeah, live a little.
That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Yeah moderation, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Not necessarily binging, brawling, whatever did
you, did you ever feel that waylike when you were, you know,
early days of chicago?

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
uh, you know sort of uh, living on the edge going to
places, uh, you know, I guesslike roses that you were, you
know, if you didn't get a cabright away when you were walking
out of it, you felt a littleunsafe me was, you know like 21

(01:06:32):
and and just in a very uh, youknow famil, you know family kind
of a way that the road managerafter we played would like walk
lex to the car or something likethat, just like you're not
walking a half a block byyourself down here in this
neighborhood, kind of thing.
But I grew up in in the suburbsbut then I lived in
Philadelphia and I lived in NewYork City.
She grew up in the city ofPhiladelphia.
We've been in like diverse,racially, ethnically diverse
neighborhoods for a very longtime.
So nothing.

(01:06:53):
I always felt Chicago was kindof a little dead.
I mean, you walk outside inmany neighborhoods of New York
City at night and it's likebeing in Japan.
There's like hundreds of peoplearound.
I was in Chicago.
I'm like where is everybody?
When it's like late at night.
I was always like I don't getthis.
I was kind of dead around here,like even in like the happening
parts of town there's just notthat many people.

(01:07:13):
So I never I've had, I mean, Iknow people here that have been
mugged.
You can have bad luck and Ithink I have an instinct to you
know the lighted side of thestreet at night, you know, or
sometimes if I'm walking I'llwalk in the street, not even on
the sidewalk, you know, make ita little harder to get pulled
into an alley or something.
But I'm very used to city life.
Woody Allen said I'm two withnature.

(01:07:35):
I'm a little bit like that.
I feel like I'm a very much ofa city person, you know, and I'm
very comfortable and happy inthe city and I don't see any
future of anything other thanmaybe a different city.
But I'm not moving to thecountry or the least of all the
suburbs.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
I think that would.
That would be like a, a, afunny little sitcom Iguana moves
to the suburbs, or something.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
It's beyond a fish out of water.
It's like a fish very, very farfrom the water flopping.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Gasping for breath.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Well, that's that's where evolution starts.
Gasping for breath, well,that's that's where evolution
starts.
Right, what's next?
What's next for you?
I mean, you talk about your youknow band practicing.
So you don't have to, you know,lug your uh piano yeah, you
need a roadie oh, just yeah,just just all the time,
everything with every time.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
I want to blame management or booking agent or
you know the zeitgeist as far aswhy I'm not succeeding like I
want to.
All I come back to is justpractice more.
You know, like one thing wasRay Charles was on this NPR
interview once and he said theysaid what does Ray Charles do
with his days?
You know, when he was probably70 years old or something.

(01:08:43):
He said I practice scales, youknow, and I don't think it was
meant to be like an eyebrowrazor, I think that's the
truthful answer.
It's like there's infinitematerial there within just the
scale.
You know to learn.
And I got the reason with theClaudettes I went with just
acoustic.
Piano is the last couple ofbands I had.
I had an organ with two synthsand a piano module and all these

(01:09:05):
different speakers and I waslike there is so much infinite
variety of just harmony withinjust the music that I'm going to
play piano.
That's what it's going to beand that's all that I do.
So there's just infinite richmining material there.
So, as much time as I can get,my emotional balance gets way
off if I have too many lifethings in the way, and I have a

(01:09:28):
couple of weeks where Ibasically don't play any piano
or work on music at all and I'mdealing with household stuff and
family stuff and I think I'mpretty not so good to be around.
You know, just pretty bitchy Ifeel it, yeah.
So I like to try to balance allthat.
But the band's you know, wehave a really great quartet of

(01:09:54):
people here and since Racheljoined us in 2022, she's just on
fire with ideas and talent andespecially presence on a stage,
and she's texting me music andmusic, business questions and
ideas all the time.
In a way, that's great, becauseit's like she's just feeling
this is an opportunity and thatthis group is special and let's
work really hard right now andnot just casually go about this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
So yeah, it's nice to have a partner that you know if
you're the band leader doing itall yourself yeah, did I ever?

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
did I ever tell you the story of the one time that I
asked billy to help withanything?
So he was living in wicker park, in the heart of wicker park,
and you know billy's verytalented and we had a lot of
great times together.
But generally I did so.
He was living in Wicker Park,in the heart of Wicker Park, and
you know Billy's very talentedand we had a lot of great times
together.
But generally, I did thebooking.
I had the vehicle andmaintained the vehicle.
I figured out what our lodgingwas going to be mostly Hit the

(01:10:39):
radio and press and 94 otherthings in addition to writing
everything with him andeverything.
But so I said, look, billy, Imade the stack of posters.
I already wrote the name of thevenue and the day we're playing
and the time and the covers.
You live in the heart of WickerPark.
Can I bring you this pile ofposters?
And here's a tape gun, can youput them up in your neighborhood

(01:11:01):
?
And he said, yeah, so the nextday I get a call.
You better not have liquid inyour mouth when I tell you this
because you're going to spit it.
Hello.
And it's Billy on the phone.
He goes.
I'm like Billy.
Yes, what he's like.
I just moved my clothes at thelaundromat from the washer to

(01:11:22):
the dryer and there were 10,000little pieces of paper I had to
pick out of this thing.
He had all of the posters inwith his clothes and somehow
didn't notice as he dumped itinto the giant washer.
The posters were in there.
He was going to do the laundryand then go do the posters but
he forgot and they were in thereand it tore him into a million
shreds.
And the reason he called me wasto just vent about how annoying

(01:11:43):
it was to pull out all theselittle pieces of paper out of
there it was like delivering ananecdote to me about this
annoyance that he just suffered.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
So after that I did all the posturing myself too.

Speaker 3 (01:11:56):
So, yeah, for Rachel to be on her honeymoon not on
her honeymoon, but on a rarevacation with her husband in
Italy months ago, when I figuredwe wouldn't speak for those
week or week and a half.
She was texting me ideasthroughout that time because her
wheels were turning, and it is.
That's a great, it's reallygreat.
And right now she's actually ata photo shoot just herself,

(01:12:19):
because this photographer, whodid our last couple albums, the
photos on them and last coupleof photo shoots, just found her
to be a great model, for he justlikes occasionally to ask
someone hey, I'll give you, Iwould like to shoot you for a
day, and I'd like.
It's, everyone wins.
You know, right now she's doinglike this photo shoot with this
guy.
She'll probably bring all theseoutfits and you know she's got
her Mohawk going and and it'syeah, I'll just get like a text

(01:12:43):
and it's just like a scarf.
She's like six bucks.
You know, she like found it ina thrift shop and she's like and
then she'll work it into a song.
You know, in some way you knowwhat I'm saying it's, it's, it's
, it's a.
It's a very good collaboratorthat way, let alone the fact
that she teaches singing and andshe's just.
It's a process to get there tohave her sing the way I'm

(01:13:04):
hearing it in my head.
It's still somewhat newtogether and I wrote for Barrett
for seven years almost, yeahvery different, very different.
So two-thirds of our set isdifferent.
Now there was a great piecethere's a book you should read
called Listen to the Stories byNat Hentoff, and he was a
journalist from Boston, a musicwriter, and he rode limos and

(01:13:28):
cars with Louis Armstrong andDuke Ellington and Bing Crosby
and all those people and he justtalked to them and he just
related the anecdotes of thesegreat people.
And a writer asked DukeEllington they had access to
Duke Ellington, like one of theyou know Mount Rushmore figures
of American music and asked themthe most inane question I could

(01:13:49):
think, Asked them how did youscore all?

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
those chart hits.

Speaker 3 (01:13:53):
And leave it to Duke Ellington to give an answer that
moved me and kept with me eversince and I've related to every
musician I've played with sincethen which is he said I looked
around at the musicians with meat any given time and I said
what do these guys do?
Well, so if you've got a drummerin your band right now, that is
really great with like a fast,punky beat, but like could never

(01:14:16):
play something like a rumba.
Don't introduce a song that's arumba.
Play to the strengths of thepeople who you're with and make
that part of the parameters.
So, ever since then, it's likeyou can really shine if, as you
write, you keep in mind whoyou've got with you right now.
Don't write something like Iwrote this thing and like you
guys have to learn how to playit and someone is like I can't

(01:14:36):
like struggling with theirplaying or singing, and then you
might likely criticize them too.
Are you going to practice morelike that, Like totally beating
your head against a wall, andit's just not the way to be any
good anyway, or compare your oldsinger to the new singer and
have those expectations whenthey're two different people.
That's exactly kind of comingback to.
Yeah, you're right, I meanthat's what it is.
It's like there are some songswe did with Barrett that I

(01:15:00):
thought, okay, this is going toreally work, but other ones that
, like I really wrote for herand were perfect and I think she
was one of the best balladsingers I've ever heard in my
life.
But you know there, but withRachel, like right away I
recognized as I heard her singother things and as we worked on
some covers to sort of just getup to speed, I quickly found to
like what range and what's thekind of phrases and stuff really

(01:15:21):
shine with her, you know, andwhere she'll feel commanding
instead of feel sort of likestruggling.
You know, and that goes for allof us.
I mean, I had an offer to play.
Uh, someone called me and saidI got a great gig for you.
There's this guy I can'tremember.
You probably know him, but he'ssomeone who does like lounge
lizard versions of like Nirvanarate me, you know, I don't you

(01:15:44):
know, but, but he's quite famous.
I don't remember what his nameis me, you know, I don't you
know but but he's quite famous.
I don't remember what his nameis, but but yeah, right, yeah,
well-known person.
I got offered that gig as apiano player and I said I can't
do that.
I'm not a lounge lizard.
Jazz piano player, like that'slike.
I always say like blues isspanish and and jazz is
portuguese and I speak spanish,but spanish and portuguese are
very different and you thinkthey're.

(01:16:04):
A lot of people think, oh, youplay blues and jazz.
I'm like no, no, I don't reallyplay jazz.
Like I play things with jazzvoicings and that sort of
harmonic content, but I can'tsolo and know my way.
It's just a different languageand I don't really know it yeah,
and richard cheese, is thatthat?
might.
That might have been, thatmight be that I think thinking
of, but if that's anyone fromrecent years that, like even 10

(01:16:25):
years ago, that's who it was.
I got offered that gig and Iwasn't even going to like try to
study up for it and trick theminto hiring me.
I'm like, I'm not the one, it'snot your thing, yeah, like it's
not even humility, it's justlike it's not a good fit.
I don't know how to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:36):
That's interesting.
Yeah, even you have your limits, because I saw Meryl Garbus.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
Is that her name?
Who's Tune Yards you?
Know, Tune Yards Yep, I saw herand the Alabama Shakes singer.
What's her?

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
name Brittany.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
Brittany Howard.
Yeah, I saw them on like what'shis name?
The late night guy Jimmy, yeah,fallon.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
I've never found funny for one second in my life.

Speaker 3 (01:17:02):
Now we're officially not going to be on the tune as
if, as if, as if we were, as ifthey were weighing the option
right now.
But I saw them on somethingwhere they sang like back up in
a doo-wop kind of fashion forsomething and it was not
flattering, like these are twopowerhouses, yeah, like I saw
tune yards at due division andjust mind-blowingly awesome.

(01:17:24):
Like her band was good but shewas just like totally next level
, two yards but.
And britney howard obviously islike a, you know, seismically
powerful singer, you know.
But but in this context wherethey were unflattering and I and
it made me realize I'm like youcould probably put stevie
wonder in a situation where it'slike the best singer and
arranger and player of all time,like connect, you think he,

(01:17:47):
nope, probably can't doeverything you put it.
You can put in a situation whereyou're like that's unflattering
, like it's just people, it'stheir, their, their brilliance
is narrower than you think.
Yeah, you know they're and andthat's what makes them so, so
high and talent, mighty andtalented, is like that.
They're just the very best atthis thing and they're're just
going to be out, you know, outdoeveryone in that.

(01:18:07):
But and some people mightsurprise you when they're also
like Brian May, anastrophysicist or something like
that, you know.
But but I mean musically, Ithink, yeah, you take someone
out of their comfort zone.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
And.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
I've done that where I've asked someone to come into
a, but they're like veryuncomfortable, it's like it's
not really.
You're almost like exposing,you're almost like showing
behind the curtain of my magicact here, yeah, so work to your
strengths.
Yeah, I mean yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Well, despite your limited range, you know, which
you just admitted to, we've hada couple of guests that were big
fans of yours.
One is a bandmate of yours,Zach.

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
Oh yeah, I listened to that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Yeah, and the other one actually is an
astrophysicist, jeff Elbell.
Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Did I introduce you to Jeff?
No, I met him at a show.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
Randomly yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Yeah, yeah, we sat next to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
Do you know that I can take pride about oh my God
that Jeff Elbell is one of twomusicians that I know that whose
band broke up after being on abill with oh my God, because
they're sort of like that's howit's done, we suck Goodbye.
That's how I take it anyway.
But it's true.
There was a guy in New York andthere was Jeff.
Jeff played with us in AnnArbor with his band.
Yeah, jeff's very talentedmulti-instrumentalist, you know,

(01:19:20):
and obviously music writer andon the NASA stuff.
But he's great and we've beenfriends now for quite a few
years.
But he was a oh my God fan andsupporter and has been the same
with the Claudettes and haswritten us up a bunch of times.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Oh, that's so cool.
I'll have to talk to him aboutthat.

Speaker 3 (01:19:34):
Yeah, he's written us up for like Big Takeover and
Illinois Entertainer and hasdone his best with the Sun-Times
, but it's he's in there.
But uh, yeah, jeff played withus at the blind pig in ann arbor
, if you ever been there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:46):
Oh many times I've played at the blind pig.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
Yeah yeah, I have a funny anecdote about that, but
maybe that's for another timewe'll have you back, yeah well,
thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Thank you very much, uh, for being here nope, I'm
gonna tell the story real quickI'm gonna condense it real quick
.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
I just suddenly realized it's very good because
you'll, you'll, you'll, totallybe there with me for this story.
So my contracts for oh my Godwere usually just a printed out
email of like when someone said500 bucks and beer or something
like that.
So I printed it out with me.
We were opening for the bandthat sang I'm going to
Disneyland Terrible, terrible,terrible band.

(01:20:20):
And One Hit Wonder is so muchso that if you have One Hit you
can have a tour bus, as they had.
But we opened for them thereand they just needed an opener
and they only paid us $100.
And it was like a $30 ticket.
But we knew we'd play in frontof a lot of people who didn't
know us and we had a lot ofMichigan fans.
So in fact we had a lot ofpeople out to see us.
So the club was lucky for thatslot.

(01:20:42):
But I had my piece of paperthat said at least free beer.
Like it really caught us thatJason.
Jason, who booked the blind pig,pledged to me by email.
And we get there and Billy andI walked up to the bar we said
well, I have a beer, and the guysaid five bucks or something.
I said, nope, I've got mycontract.
And he said well, I have to goask Jason.
I got to call him.

(01:21:02):
He's not here and he walks tothe back.
And I said to Billy, we've allbeen through this a million
times and I was going to comeback and go, couldn't reach him.
Sorry, that's not what happened.
He came back and goes.
I got a hold of Jason.
He told me not to give you guysbeer.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
Threw a curveball at you Just like, even worse than I
thought it was going to be.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
I'm like his email, but there's just like what it's
all it's kind of like.
Sometimes in life I feel likeI'm at imagining myself as some
villain where I owe someone fora project a thousand and twenty
dollars and I pay them athousand and five dollars and go
what are you gonna do?
Sue me for fifteen dollars?
You could go through life likethat if you wanted to people,
but that's what I feel like thisguy's doing.
Yep, he's like are you gonnasue me for the, for the couple
cans of beer?
Because I wrote in an email Iguess you could win if you hire
an attorney and they call meGood luck.

(01:21:48):
Yeah, but I figured you withyour playing shows that you've
seen things of similar nobilityas this.

Speaker 2 (01:21:56):
Oh yeah, all fun stories from the road.
Yep, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Well, it all goes into the fabric of being a
musician.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:22:04):
Cautionary example yeah, well, well, thank you for
coming.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
I've been wanting to have you on for a long time, so
yeah so I knew it'd be fun totalk, and it was hey, hey, wait
what's my name?

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
what's?
What's my hi karen?

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
hi andrew.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
I'm going to blame the eclipse.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Yes, there we go.
It's like Mercury in retrogradeMoon in front of the sun.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
I've been feeling really tired lately and of
course you know it's kind oflike the Edgar Allen Poe poem.
You know, when you ask theraven, that can only answer
nevermore poem.
You know when you ask the raven, that can only answer nevermore
.
You know leading questions sothat you get answers that sort
of fit your mood.
The internet has kind of becomethat, but I saw a Instagram

(01:22:57):
post that stated that the reasonwhy everybody is so tired is
because of the eclipse.
Like I feel that.
Anyway, why is it important tostudy celestial bodies?

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Like from an astrological kind of thing.
However, you want to answer it.
Why is it important to studycelestial bodies?
I think for me I get a lot ofcomfort when I look out into
space or when I think about, youknow, the stars.
It's weirdly comforting tothink like I am just a tiny

(01:23:35):
little speck in the universe.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
And all of my worries and all the whatevers, they
really don't matter.
It's like you know when Johnnysaid well, you're just going to
get killed by your bird, yourpet bird.
But there's also something soamazing about it.
I think that's really cool whenyou hear about you know the
Aztecs and how they came up witha calendar, you know, a million
years ago're not alone and thateverything is all connected,

(01:24:00):
and it makes me feel kind ofhopeful for the future, and
might not even be our futureright you know.
But we are a step in somegreater thing and I don't.

(01:24:23):
I'm not really talking aboutgod or anything, but if you
think about it, you know peopleare like I don't believe in God,
Fine.
But when you look up to thestars, and it goes on forever.
What?

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
is that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
I mean you don't have to believe in a dude on a cloud
playing a harp.
You know judging everybody.
But, there is some.
What is that?

Speaker 1 (01:24:50):
What is that?
Yeah, yeah, just infinite,mostly nothingness.

Speaker 2 (01:24:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
And then occasional somethingness yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
It's mostly empty space.
Yeah, and dark matter which?
Who the heck knows what that is?

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
now, physicists probably do yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Well, from what I've read, there's still kind of
mystery about it.
There's still heck knows whatthat is now Physicists probably
do yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):
Well from what I've read, there's still kind of
mystery about it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:10):
But anyway I think it .
It humbles us, puts everythinginto perspective, but also gives
us tremendous I don't know hopeand dreams of bigger things we
can't even imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
Yeah, I love that.
Let's leave it there.
This has been an episode ofRecords and Real Estate.
Thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Be Realty.
Be where you want to be.
Be Realty Bye.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}From Teen Bands to TV Scores: The Evolution of Johnny Iguana

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

From Teen Bands to TV Scores: The Evolution of Johnny Iguana

24/7 News: The Latest