Rocket Scientist, Journalist, Reluctant Optimist, and Music Aficionado, Jeff Elbel Talks About the Power of Creativity

Ever met a music journalist with an encyclopedic knowledge of music, and a knack for capturing the vibrancy of the Chicago music scene? Join us as we explore the captivating worlds of music and real estate with our esteemed guest, Jeff Elbel. As an accomplished writer and photographer for the Chicago Sun Times and Illinois Entertainer, Jeff offers a unique perspective on the industry. In our enlightening chat, we traverse through various topics, from the challenges of record manufacturing and vinyl production in the United States to keys to overcoming adversity through creativity.

This episode takes you on a musical journey, offering a backstage pass into the making of the album "Three Finger Opera", an inspiring tale of resilience and artistic expression in the face of personal hardship. What does it take to craft such a musical masterpiece? Jeff shares his wisdom, shedding light on the fascinating interplay between music, creativity, and overcoming life's obstacles. Our conversation then takes a delightful detour as we review the 1999 album "Keep it Like a Secret" by Built to Spill, sharing our love for the classic record and reminiscing about personal memories it evokes.

But there's more. We pivot from the realm of music to explore the symbiotic relationship between tunes and real estate. We stroll down memory lane visiting various iconic Chicago venues and dissect our experiences witnessing stellar performances. Along the way, we tap into the challenges faced by talented bands, the empowering journeys in the music industry, and even Jeff's unique connection to record label giant Seymour Stein. So, don’t just stay tuned—lean in, listen, and join this riveting discussion.

Have someone you think should be a guest on this podcast? Let us know! Email your suggestions over to: [e-mail], [e-mail]

Connect with Karen and Andrew at Be Realty: Be Realty Group

Email the Show: [e-mail]

Guest: Jeff Elbel 

Link: Illinois Entertainer

Link: Chicago Suntimes

Link: Three Finger Opera

Link: The Claudettes

Link: Built to Spill

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Records in Real Estate, a podcast about
well records in real estate.
You'll be entertained andinformed as we explore the
intersection of these two worldsthrough interviews with
Chicago's most interesting andsuccessful people from both
industries.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
That was Andrew Wendt and I'm Karen Sanvoss.
We are Chicago Real EstateBrokers, property Managers, avid
Music Lovers and your hosts ofRecords in Real Estate.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hi Karen Andrew.
Well, we just had an incredibleconversation with Jeff Elbell.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yes, we did An encyclopedic mind.
In fact, I got to carpool withhim on the way here, yes, and we
were.
I was talking about somethingthat I would like to see in the
world that doesn't.
I don't think it exists, Okay.
But you know, like 23andMe andyou do your genealogy and
whatever, I want to see amusical web, a genealogy musical

(01:04):
web and he would be a personwho could invent this.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
You know, this guy was on this album, who also
played on this other thing thatwas produced by this other guy,
and create this incrediblefamily tree.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Well, we talk about it all the time.
I mean, I think it's really theway that you get to know jazz
artists really well, becausethey you know.
You look at the back of thealbum and this person played on
that album but not only that,but jazz artists.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Nobody else does this , but every single concert they
make a point of telling youwho's playing what instrument
all the time during the concert.
I find it kind of annoyingbecause I'm not a jazz fan.
But you know, give it up forJosh Mo on the drums, josh Mo,
and then Josh Mo does a littlething.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
But you know what it's.
It's actually true of all music, I think, is that you know I
mean people whether it doesn'thave to be the jazz genre.
You know where you can findsounds that you like, based on
who played with who, but jazzjust doesn't.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
They call it out.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Really, that's my point, yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:07):
But yeah, when you look on the back of an album and
you know, like this, the threefinger opera that's that he
brings up, that he created is awho's who of of Chicago
connections.
So a great jumping off point ifyou want to dive into some
Chicago local music.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
And I don't think we need to belabor the point
anymore, we should just get intoit.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Let's meet Jeff.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
We're here with Jeff Elbell.
I spoke that.
I pronounced that correctly.
Yeah very good.
Thank you, yeah, and Jeff.
I guess I really don't knowwhere to start in terms of an
introduction.
Well, I'll start with where youguys met.
You guys met at a Adrian Belewand Jerry Harrison show, yeah,
where they covered Remain andLight, and you were there

(02:55):
covering the show for the SunTimes that show I was covering
for Illinois Entertainer.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Okay, so yeah, my two primary outlets in town would
be the Chicago Sun Times andIllinois Entertainer.
Okay, nice and Entertainer willdo a lot more live review
Gotcha, and sometimes will.
Sometimes is moving back intothat territory gradually after
COVID, yeah and.
But Illinois Entertainer is areliable study outlet.

(03:20):
People can find a lot of goodlocal coverage on their website.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Well, tell me about the Illinois Entertainer,
because you know, before doing alittle research for this
interview, I didn't really knowanything about her.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Frankly, anything about it I've never heard of it,
it predates me.
Let's be honest, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
It seems like the longer I'm around and right
around town, I'll run into otherpeople that either used to
shoot, photography or write, oreven be an editor for the
Illinois Entertainer.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, you know they'll ask me.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's like oh, do you know somebody that used to work
there 20 years ago, because it'sbeen around that long and
longer yeah.
And so I know my editor, johnVernon, who's run the
Entertainer since I moved back,or at least since shortly after
I moved back, which was late2004.
And then you know other writersand photography staff.

(04:11):
Tom Lanham's done cover storiesfor Entertainer probably since
John's day or before that, nice.
And yeah, so he's one of myfavorite local.
He's not even local anymore.
I don't know where he lives helives in a secret location
somewhere on the West Coast buthe still does most of the cover
stories for Illinois Entertainer.
So I had my first two coverslast year.

(04:32):
They were Tears for Fears andMiddle Oil.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Oh great, yeah, that's great, and so I mean I
guess it started being havingbeen around for so long.
I started as a print magazine.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
And still is.
It's still a reliable printmagazine and John publishes like
clockwork on it.
It's always out on the firstyou know.
Any music store, any concertvenue around you can go pick up
a copy of the IllinoisEntertainer on the first of the
month, focus primarily on musicor yes?
Yeah, uh it at least 90% gotcha.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Gotcha Nice, and so you were there covering the show
for Illinois Entertainer andyou guys got to meet in.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, we were lucky.
We got to sit up in the rattleyour jewelry section to see that
show.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
And I've never been in a in a like one of those cool
opera boxes before CauseMichael in my street got us
tickets or got me tickets forjam productions, and so I felt
completely like an imposter,because everyone there obviously
was, like you know, a mover anda shaker in the industry, and
you know.
So I am like I'm going to bebold.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
And so.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
I just I walked right up to you and I'm like who are?

Speaker 3 (05:39):
you, I'm Karen.
That's amazing, that was a goodtime.
I deserve to be here.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you're a podcast host,that's right.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
You're 100% legitimate.
I still walk into thosesituations with fake it till you
make it attitude.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, and I think most of us in life are in that
sort of imposter syndrome.
But you know, I still I'm notconvinced I should ever
represent somebody in a realestate transaction.
It just doesn't come naturallyto me being a salesman.
Wow, you know, here we are here.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
You are 15 years later.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Further along you go, then, like you said, you
realize that's everybody,everybody Right, and you realize
that that's the person flyingthe airplane you're sitting on.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
You know, while I'm tightening some bolts on the
wing, yep.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
I had my blood drawn the other day from a woman.
It was her first time, ohwonderful, and I fainted.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
Why did she?
How did she tell you that?

Speaker 2 (06:42):
See, that's a thing that's not helpful.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
And she was great, she actually did it great.
And you know, she and the thingthat I think got my brain to
think, oh God, I'm going down,I'm going down is she was taking
her finger and patting my veinsto try and find which one was
like the right one, and theperson who was training her just
kind of let her do it and itliterally like probably three
minutes of like patting my veinsand so that time takes, you

(07:10):
know, my brain to be like okay,I think you're going to die.
This person's obviously new and, yeah, I fainted.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Well, she was pumping you full of blood as well, like
she was doing the work of yourheart.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
I guess, so Well, yeah technically, she was
draining it out of my body likea vampire, but you know that's
the opposite of the Statler andWaldorf experience from the
Muppet show, where you start offand go, there's nothing to
worry about, it's going to befine.
It's like, hmm, I wonder,should I be worried?
It's going to be horrible.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
I'm going to die Along the route takes very
delightful and you know I'm gladshe got it right.
Right, she took her time, yeah,and then she got to see what
it's like to revive.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
She goes down and I asked her.
I'm like has?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
that ever happened to you before?
She's like not to me.
I've seen it.
I've seen it happen, but thisis my first time.
Teaching moment for everybody,yeah, exactly, you're my first
patient.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, and it can only it can only rise up from here,
that's right.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Now you know.
Um so journalism Wait can wetalk about me?

Speaker 1 (08:16):
No, this is for.
This is amazing.

Speaker 2 (08:17):
I'm just I'm just, I'm just.
I'm just happy.
I'm just back on the tracks.
I can help with theconversation.
I have experience in this.
You too have experience.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
What did, uh?
Where does like did?
Did music bring you tojournalism or journalism bring
you to music?
Or how did you sort of startMusic?

Speaker 2 (08:34):
brought me to everything.
Okay, and as much as I can usemusic as a conduit to relate to
the world, I do.
That's, that's where I findcommon ground, that's that's
that's where I can talk to you.
You know, you know about realestate and you love music.
I respect and appreciate realestate and know nothing about it
, but I can talk to you aboutmusic, sure, and so it was a way

(08:56):
to create a social circle.
You know, playing music,recording music that's a
favorite, but recording musicends up being a way to teach
other people and raise people upto want to do what I wanted to
do before them.
Yeah, yeah, I can.
I can give you long-winded,rambling answers about that
question, but yeah, music didbring me to journalism music
music brought me, brought me tothe world.

(09:17):
It brings me to other people, itbrought me to, to, to you and
Karen, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and journalism did too.
Did you always been a writer,or you know?

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I've.
There's an honest story.
I don't know how to tell thisstory perfectly, so I'll just
tell it badly.
When I was in college, I reallywanted to see a lot of shows.
Okay, I lived in Champaign or Iinterned in San Diego and
that's how I paid my way throughschool.
Okay, and I didn't havespending money and I found out
that if you wrote about the showfor publication, you might be

(09:50):
able to get a pair of tickets togo see the show.
Yeah, so that's when I startedwriting about shows.
Cool, we, that's.
My first published piece was.
You know, karen and I have beentalking about Adrian Blew a lot
today.
My first published article wasa review of the Bears Rise and
Shine album in 1988 in the SanDiego Tribune.
Okay, and so that was AdrianBlew's band back then.

(10:12):
Wow, okay, and it's like, oh,they'll send me quote, unquote
free records.
It really didn't strike me thateventually, you know, it would
be like 12 to 14 hours worth ofwork To cover these shows or,
you know, review an album thatyou could buy for eight bucks at
the time, right Time value ofmoney.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, yeah, that was a little bit skewed.
See you later in life.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
It does so, but that's how it started, yeah, and
, and, and you know, the valueof the musical experience became
better, and, and my analyticalbrain just goes there anyway.
So I want to pick everythingapart.
I will read a record andmemorize everybody involved in
making it and be able to tellyou 40 years from now who who

(10:54):
recorded that Bears album andwho played what, and who the
guests were Cool, and and wherethey made it and and arcane
details about the lyrics andwhatever.
It's just I'm a nerd that wayand that's what I.
That's fun, that's so amazing,and so eventually I get to write
for the Suntimes and and have amusic column for 10, 11, 12

(11:15):
years.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
That's great, so fun and it, but it's.
It's not your day job, right,you know, but it is a very
passionate hobby, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
It's yours.
It probably takes more timethan the actual day job yeah.
How do you find the?

Speaker 3 (11:29):
time to go out and, and you know, be out late at
these shows and then get up forwork in the morning.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Well, ask me about sports or television and you'll
find out pretty rapidly.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Have you been watching Game of.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Thrones.
Right, I know nothing about TVfilms or sports I can tell you
about, and barely books.
So so I can talk to you aboutrocket science.
I can talk to you about music.
Rock and roll and rocketscience yeah, there's a podcast,
except I wouldn't be able totalk about half of it, right,

(12:04):
and it would just be anotherrock and roll podcast, which you
know there's plenty of, but itsounds like you are the ones
that I like.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
So it seems like you're an incredibly creative
person.
I had a question here.
I'm just going to read itbecause I thought it was kind of
interesting Are all of theseendeavors sort of creatively
related, you know, in your mind,or, you know, do you have to
just, you know, tap into sort ofdistinct creative reserves for
each of your roles, as like andwe haven't even dove into the

(12:37):
fact that you're a musician anda producer and you know all of
that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
To me they do all seem to be part of the same
thing.
They're branches on the sametree.
If the tree's music, and youknow, there's writing about
music, because that allows me tothink about music and analyze
it and then there's making music, which you know that's the most
fun Performing music and that'srelating to other people.
Performing is another way tohave a conversation about music

(13:06):
with people, as far as I'mconcerned.
But yeah, it's all about music.
I guess there are times whenwell, certainly when you're
performing or you're writing,you don't want to have the
analytical brain turned on asmuch as when you're making it
Right, but yeah, it all seemslike the same thing because it's

(13:26):
so foreign to the otherpursuits you know the day job
type of a.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Thing.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Right, it's like I can be working on the day job
but if I have to go, you knowwork on a story for the paper or
the magazine.
I like that.
That's taking something.
That's no longer drudgery orit's no longer you know, hard
mental work.
Now it's happy mental work,right.
And then you know playing musicwith people.
That's just pure joy, that'sbliss.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah, how did you?
Speaking of that?
Your album that you introducedme to that came out not too long
ago, the Three Finger Opera,yeah, it's the world's longest
album release because, you know,digital was available so much
more in a more timely fashionthan the.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
CD or the album release, because vinyl takes
forever to make.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah.
What was the timeline for vinyl?
I actually don't know.

Speaker 2 (14:16):
Vinyl just came out in August.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
And when did you put that order in, like what's the
lead time on vinyl?

Speaker 2 (14:22):
They told me they suckered me in by telling me it
would take 15 weeks.
Okay, and then you know it took25 weeks or something, but that
was they lost the record, likelost the record.
Nobody knew where it was itwent from.
I can't get an answer fromanybody to somebody finally
saying we don't know where yourrecord is in the system.
And so then I had to a friendof mine who runs a, a, a a a.

(14:44):
A friend of mine who runs a, a,another small label posed as me
and called the vice presidentof the production and chewed
them out and made threats orsomething like that.
They're like leg breakers andall of a sudden it was back on
track.
They found it.
Yeah, they found it, and I hadit in my hands within five weeks
.
Okay, so you can still make arecord in five weeks if you

(15:05):
threaten people with grievous,grievous, bodily harm yeah,
Totally get yourself a heavy.
Yeah.
So, when you I'm sorry, butit'll it can take 13 months
these days, Wow.
So people, yeah, if you've got,if you've got the new Wilco
record, they, they can probablyget better attention, but if
it's the new Claudette's record,that may take 13 months.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
Wow, what is what takes so long?
Is it?
Is it sourcing vinyl itself, orthe materials, or what?

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, it's, it's production capacity.
So when people start makingrecords in the late 80s, early
90s, people needed the space forother things and they just
dismantled the productioncapacity.
It's really common to go toCzech Republic now to produce
your records, because they stillhave the means to to do it and
take and take on large jobs.
Canada has better productioncapacity and I can't believe

(16:00):
that somebody like RichardBranson, who runs Virgin
everything- yeah.
Didn't put up recordmanufacturing shops in three
different countries and startedhimself and and make the money
that way.
But no, the capacity is reallyslow to return in the in the
United States, so you have tofarm your record out somewhere

(16:22):
else.
You can, of course it would nowin Chicago we have.
I'm really embarrassed myselfby being a poor evangelist for
Chicago and tapping on the table, but we do have record
manufacturing capability righthere in Chicago and I should
know the name of it and I don't,and that's really bad.

Speaker 3 (16:40):
We've been talking about this before I have it in
my notes and find it.

Speaker 2 (16:44):
I've got friends from West West Chicago, which is
closer to Wheaton, in a bandcalled Dip and they recorded
their album at Electrical Audiowith Steve Alvini and you know I
had it locally mastered and hadit locally manufactured and
their record turned out really,really well.
So the next time I go to make arecord I'm going to be looking

(17:05):
here first, as if it takes 13months At least I know when it's
done I can drive down with atruck and take it home and so
shipping it from Czech RepublicRight.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
When you, from a production side, when you have
the album like, are yourecording, cause I'm assuming
you don't want to recordeverything digitally and then
and then dump it to vinyl.
Are you doing two inch tapelike old school, or how are you
recording?

Speaker 2 (17:29):
No, but that's the dream.
That's the dream for a lot ofpeople.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Just to work purely on tape.
But it's 2023.
So my record was made in thebox.
It never hit tape.
But I have experienced, youknow, like I said, working with
Doug McBride at Gravity Studioin Wicker Park where things were
.
Things are going to be mostlydigital because it's less
expensive now, but you know,doug had a great two inch

(17:54):
machine for doing multi-trackthere and those were skills that
I wanted to learn.
I wanted to learn to cut tape,oh wow.
And you know align the machinesand all that.
You know it's like these arethe people, my heroes.
When I was a kid that's whatthey did.
I would read about HelenParsons.
You know splicing a tape.
Or you know listening to aknack record and you always hear
that really bad cut during theguitar solo from my Sharona that

(18:16):
you can never unhear once youhear it the first time?

Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, no, I, I haven't.
No, I wanted to listen to that.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
And then there, and you know, there are people that
can do that just seamlessly,where you could never hear it,
and it's like, well, that'sbecause they were making a
classic record that they didn'tthink was a classic at the time.
There is a throwaway recordwhen they were making it and
that's how so many favoritescome along.
But anyway, I wanted to learnall the old school analog stuff
and Mark Rubel, who ran PogoStudio in Champaign, illinois,

(18:43):
was my guru, my recording guru,and he was one of Doug's mentors
as well, and so he, he camefrom the from the all analog
background.
And so, yeah, I feel I alwaysfeel like in between I'm
becoming the older generationpretty rapidly, but I always
feel like I'm stuck between thetwo generations.
There's, you know, I'm right inbetween analog and digital.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Got it.
Well, it's good to know both,but so you did yours in digital.
And then, how do you?
How do you hear the differencewhen it gets pressed to vinyl?
You know everyone's talkingabout how warm vinyl is and all
that stuff Does it.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Well, there are limit , there are limitations to vinyl
.
That if you're, if you'rereally realistic about it, you
just accept them and love them,and I do.
The fact is CDs do sound quote,unquote, air quotes better than
vinyl because they're true tothe original source, they're
true to full fidelity, and so Ialways record at least DVD

(19:38):
quality.
So CD quality would be 16 bit,44.1 kilohertz, dvd quality 48,
or 24 bit, 48 kilohertz.
I can hear the differencebetween 24 bit and 16 bit.
I can't always, I can't often,hear the difference between 48
and 44.
It's too close together.
But 28, 44 is certainly betterthan vinyl.

(20:00):
So if you master well, fulldigital and better than CD
quality anyway, you can make aperfectly viable, great sounding
vinyl record for people toexperience and they can
experience it just as if it came, if it was only on tape the
entire time.
Okay, interesting.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
That's fantastic Technology yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, vinyl records inherently involve harmonic
distortion.
They cannot play to that bitand I should, I should.
That's another thing.
I should know what is theequivalent bit rate and sample
rate that you really kind of getfrom the vinyl experience?
Yeah, what you hear that youlike about vinyl records is is
harmonic distortion and soniclimitations anyway.

(20:42):
And so, yeah, cds and DVDs andhigh bit rate.
You know, super high def soundstruer to the source.
But I liked the limited sound.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Our human ears are limited anyway.
Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
That's cool.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
I don't like the sound of MP3s.
I don't like listening to musicon phones.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
Too tinny or what you have.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
That's where you, that's where I start hearing the
compression.
Yeah, yeah, you know I useSpotify a lot as a as a music
journalist, but I don't like tolisten to it.
You know I'll listen to it forfor facts and note taking and to
get up to speed, you know, if Ineed to hear that song to make
a point of comparison, that's.
That's where I'm going to go,right, it's easy.

(21:28):
So it's a tool only.
But if I want to listen tolaughing stock by talk, talk,
I'm not going to listen to it onSpotify.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
Is there a streaming service that you would listen to
, or just not a streamingservice?
Not at all.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, what's that?
Well, that would probably bethe Neil Young thing.
What was that?
What was that called?
Was he involved in title?

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
What I remember is the device, the Pono.
Is that what it was?
P-o-n-o Pono, I think that'sthe name of the device that Neil
Young was championing.
I think that was supposed toplay 192 bit rate, 96 kilohertz,
and so that's distortion beyondthe level of human hearing, you
know.
So that should be perfect, likein a studio.

(22:09):
I don't have access to that.
So again a nerdy answer to astraightforward question.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
Is Pono like a device or what is it?

Speaker 2 (22:16):
Yeah, it was right At the time.
The equivalent everybody wouldhave had an iPod at the time.
They would have even had aniPhone when the Pono was out.
But he promised with the Ponoyou wouldn't get the crunchy.
No bottom end 128 kilobyte MP3sound.
You'd be getting gloriouscompact disc sound or something,

(22:37):
and I think it would be on that.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
I wonder if it became like the beta max of you know
which was technically better,but VHS one out.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
Yeah, yeah, format.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Wars.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, they're always usually coming down to marketing
.
Yeah, marketing and money.
Karen referenced three fingeropera.

Speaker 3 (22:57):
Yeah, we got actually real vinyl.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
You should hear the crinkle of the Rella fan, I love
it.
You started to ask a questionabout that, but then it got
sidetracked.
Do you remember what you weregoing to ask?

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Oh yeah, I was going to ask about.
You were talking aboutconnection and music being the
kind of connector, connectingforce in your life, and this
album has a who's who of Chicagomusicians Fantastic, so how did
that?

Speaker 1 (23:23):
come about.
It's a cavalcade of dazzlingguest stars there you go A
cavalcade.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Every last one of them, yes.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
So when you were approaching people, did you have
the music all done and in yourend and said I need you to play
this part on this record, or didyou?
Was it organically builttogether?
How did that work?

Speaker 2 (23:44):
It was a fusion of all of the above, the fact that
Ping is a really great band, sothe people that I get to play
with in this group are I alwayslike to say that well, I'm the
least capable player in thegroup.
So we've made all of our otherrecords without having the
cavalcade of dazzling gueststars, but it was.

(24:05):
It was just the right time tomake a record like that, and
this record is the most personal.
You know.
I can.
I can break it down to thingsthat happened to me, less so or
more than I could say.
These are things that happen tous and to everybody, like all
of the other records, and so butit was a test one of my

(24:28):
favorite songwriters is a guynamed Steve Hindalong and he
plays drums and writes lyricsfor a band called the choir, and
there are two choirs.
There's an old garage rock bandfrom the sixties called the
choir and there's an alternativerock band from Los Angeles from
the mid eighties called thechoir, and that choir still play
.
But that's so he's.
He's one of my songwritingheroes, okay, as a lyricist, and

(24:53):
his axiom is well, the morepersonal the topic, the more
universal it becomes, and soI've stress, tested that axiom
on this record, because thestory through the record the
record tells a story is sospecific to my own experience.
But then it became a process ofI'll answer the right question.

(25:13):
Eventually you tear awaydetails so it becomes relatable
and so you want it to relate.
You want your specific, detailoriented story to be interpreted
however anybody wants and say Isee myself in that one, and a
way to do that was simply toinvolve more people.
It, seemed like, was to bringpeople into the intangible side

(25:34):
of it, which is the magic ofmaking the song and the
arrangement.
So, yeah, we called everybodywe knew and some of them said
yes, and so we would leave roomfor people to do certain things.
But I still I hear the bandunderneath everything and it
still sounds like our record.
But it also sounds like a greathouse party where we were

(25:54):
bringing all our creativefriends in and letting them have
a say, and so I hear theirvoices too.

Speaker 3 (25:59):
And did you already have relate like musical
relationships with these gueststars where you'd played
together or you just knew themthrough your work with music and
writing Like the question.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
yes, that's all one thing.
So the answer is there was arelationship somehow with
everybody, and most of them itwould have been yes, we've
played together before.
The name that more people willknow than anybody else on the
record is probably going to beSy Kernan, the singer from the
Fix, the guy that sings Saved byZero Red Skies at Night.
One thing leads to another.
I've played shows with Sy.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
Have you really?

Speaker 2 (26:36):
Yeah, yeah, I love the fix the one time I played a
show opening for him at theAbbey, a Sy solo show, which is
a beautiful experience at theAbbey Pub, and so I got to do
that and but I've written thebios for his last three solo
albums.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
They're away.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Cool.
And you know I've been a guitartech for Jamie West or Ameth.
That fixed shows a few times inthe past.
So anyways, but Sy is our Sy'son the record.
He's, he's our narrator, that.
Did you happen to grow up withDisneyland?
Read along storybooks with arecord stuck in the back, by any
chance?

Speaker 3 (27:11):
I know of them.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
No, I don't think this record is set up as if it's
one of the Disney read alongstorybooks.
So we have a narrator whointroduces the story, then the
story unfolds and then thenarrator you know bids you
farewell.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
That's what it's from so.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
Sy is, sy is our narrator, he's our avuncular,
perfect British voice.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Oh, that's amazing.
And what was the you?
I mean we talked about this alittle bit off the podcast, but
kind of what was the impetus forthis record?
So?

Speaker 2 (27:44):
the personal experience.
The name the three finger operacomes from the fact that these
two fingers on my left hand arepartially paralyzed and I was
essentially a full time workingmusician at the time that that
happened.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Wow, Playing what instrument?

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Primarily.
Well, if it's my own project,it's.
It's usually stringedinstruments, so guitars, and if
I'm playing for anybody else,it's usually double bass,
fretless upright bass.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
And your left hand is doing a lot of the work.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yep, it's hard to be a play stringed instruments with
, without a fully functionalleft hand, so making this record
was it's more than one purpose.
It was the best rehab that Iever could have come up with.
So, I had to retrain.
You can't see this on thepodcast, but this is my right
hand.
This is your first dorsalinterosseous.

(28:32):
Everybody is the muscle betweenyour thumb and your index
finger and it controls howabduction, which is how far you
can stretch your fingers.
And then there are other, andthen there's a nerve that taps
in below your thoracic spine andyour cervical spine that
controls all of the motion andfeeling in your little finger
and the vertical half of themotion feeling in your right

(28:55):
finger.
Wow, and so.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
I didn't know nerves controlled motion.
I just thought nerves were onlyabout pain or feeling what they
activate the muscles.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
So, and if your muscle is not innervated, the
muscle will die.
So this is a first dorsalinterosseous in my right hand
and this is where one belongs inmy left hand, where one no
longer exists.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
How did that happen?

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Can you?
It was a disc ruptured in sucha way that it crushed the end of
the nerve.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
Wow, was it like a traumatic injury or something?

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Well, maybe it was the consequence of some bad luck
and falls off the bicycle, or Iwas trying to run a lot and it
was icy out in the winter and Iwasn't going to let ice stop me.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Unstoppable yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
So, but it did.
And then a lifetime of badhabits, long hours at a computer
or something like that, badposture, anything.
It was all contributors.
Other people have fallen offbikes and fallen on the ice
without any of that happening.
Yeah, but yeah, it happened inthe middle of the night, like it
woke me up and it's like theworst blinding pain I've ever

(30:09):
experienced when it happened.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah, and then it took me a while because I was so
focused on the other thing thathappened it didn't occur to me
that anything had happened to myhand.
But I had a gig two days laterand it's like I can't tell
anybody what's going on and Iplayed with three fingers.
Oh, man.
There's so Django Reinhart.
Sure, he lost the same twofingers on his left hand in a

(30:38):
fire.
You can see my fingers move now.
They don't do everythingthey're supposed to, but they
move, and he invented a newmusical language with his three
fingers.
So I figured get on with it.
And this record was a way toteach myself new ways to do what
I love to do and what I have todo.
It was lovely and so that'swhat I did.

(30:59):
It was a way, and the record is, even though that's kind of the
backstory.
The record's stupid goofy humoris built into all the song
lyrics.
That's just me.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
It's a very upbeat record for talking about
something that was probablyreally tough to go through.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
On purpose.
Yeah, that was totalbootstrapping.
It's like I have to keep myselfin this frame of mind.
So I wrote that way andsurrounded myself with other
people and this is what camefrom it and it's still a
reminder to me of all thosethings.
It took all to all the peoplewho jumped in and brought joy to

(31:37):
it and had fun with it, and thefund that's built into the
record.
That was a big deal.
So, yeah, I probably have twothirds of my hand and that's
probably what I get.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Okay, so that's kind of where it's going to stand for
.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Right, and so the things that I do now are, you
know, it's like well, how do Iretrain, how do I repurpose?
And I can get away with mosteverything.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, what have you found, like work arounds,
anything with guitar or upright,that you found that you had to
do?

Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yes, there are like.
There are songs that I've hadrecords out for now for 31 years
and there are parts that Iwrote for old songs that I can
no longer play the way they werewritten to be played.
So you have to find new ways toplay it.
Or you have to find acollaborator to work with and
say we're going to split thepart up, or you take over and
I'll invent something else.
So it's, it's, it's.

(32:27):
You find a way to makesomething good out of it.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, I mean, I feel like that happens with musicians
, you know, as as they get olderthey lose the ability to shred
like they used to on the guitar,and so, you know, they find
ways to reinvent themselves.
I mean, you know, my favoriteband, fish, is no different.
They just continue to playdifferently, but you know, they

(32:52):
adhere to their creative spiritthat they've always had.
But this is really hopeful, Imean almost to the point where
you know you might present thisrecord to people who have had
sort of injuries and and go ontalks or you know, just kind of
bill it out as a really hopefuljoyful record?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, it's.
It has been interesting thatway and usually the thing that I
expect if I find somebody thatrelates to that actually latches
on to what's going on in therecord and they and they say it
relates to what their experience.
Their experience is usuallylike really heavy and you know,
and they've come out the otherside of it, so you know that's

(33:34):
all.

Speaker 3 (33:34):
These things are teaching moments and were you
writing as the thing washappening, you know as like
right when the injury happened?
Were you then like okay, I'mgoing to write my first song, or
how did you go through thatprocess?

Speaker 2 (33:48):
It happened in December 19th 2015.
So it's been a while since it'snot since the record was made
and released, but since it waswritten Right, and I wrote the
record in March 2016, like Iwrote the whole record in March
2016.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
And then there were other things going on with the
band that were front level for awhile.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
And where was your, where was your handability at
that time, when you, when therecord was?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
When it was being written.
It was still yeah, yeah, so areyou a guitar player.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
I play guitar, but it's not my main instrument.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
You play a Chuck Berry song.
You know you get the root andthe five and you reach for the.
You reach for the six to playthe running.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
It's like can't, couldn't do that Can't do, that
right Because you need the pinky?

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, so that was always.
My test was once I started todevelop any strength and it's
like where can I, where could Iplay Johnny be good?
And so you know the frets arecloser together up at the top of
the next, like well, I can playa Johnny be good and the key of
D at the 10th fret.
That's not very useful.
But yeah, when I got back tothe point where I could play in

(34:52):
the key of A, that's good.
But I can't.
I can never play, say everybreath you take or message in a
bottle, and because I can't, Ican't do a seven fret stretch,
got it.

Speaker 3 (35:05):
Interesting.
So what would you if you hadyou know, on on Andrew's tip of
you know, making this as a, as ahow to guide to get through
something hard, you know whatadvice would you give somebody
else?
Do you?
Would you say, you know, jumpright in and make the creative
thing after the after you'vepassed through the episode that

(35:26):
you've been dealing with, orwhile you're at it.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
For me it was important to do while I was in
it, because I wrote the endingof the story before I had
reached it.
And the ending of the story isperspective and gratitude and
peace about the situation.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Which you hadn't actually come to yet.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I wasn't in that spot at all.
I was in the middle of therecord, which is well the so the
song that you saw the video forthat's that's unstoppable me
stands alone as a as a happy,summary, good time song.
But in the context of therecord it's about pride goes
before a fall, it's it's hubris,and then after that is fear,

(36:06):
and so I was in between, andthen there's fear and then
there's sort of madness, whichis the part of coming to terms
with how ridiculous thesituation is.
And that's where, you know,some of the funny stuff is.
And I was in between fear andmadness when I wrote the record
and I had to put myself to peace, perspective and gratitude.

Speaker 3 (36:26):
Have you always been a forward thinker like that of
you know where you want to beand projecting that in front of
you?

Speaker 2 (36:34):
I, my mother would tell me I was a worry ward.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
And that I was, that I always thought too much about
things and and I was toopessimistic and tended toward
depression you know, clinicaldepression.
So but being the, the analystpart of my brain says okay, well
, you know these things aboutyourself.
Is that where you want to stay,or do you want to do something

(37:00):
that might be a little morehealthy?
Good question and so you knowit's it's a choice, it's a hard
choice for me, but I had to makea hard choice.
That I did.
You know I was around people Ihave.
I have two daughters.
I'm married.
I don't want to, I don't wantto subject them to my depression

(37:21):
, and so I have to work on that,and so this was it was.
It was just a way to to for meto put it right in my own face,
and yeah, that's hard to do, wow.

Speaker 3 (37:33):
What a good role model to you know to set for
your daughter.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Does that come, you think, from sort of tapping into
sort of a sublime creativespirit, or is creativity just
sort of compulsory and thensomething good comes from that's
?

Speaker 2 (37:51):
a really good point and I hadn't thought of that
well enough to answer itdirectly.
But I can think around.
The question you ask is thatmusic is where I find joy and
peace and where I can relax andfeel good about things.
So yeah, you'd have to ask thatquestion again for me to answer
it the right way.
But it does come that mindset,the ability to make that

(38:12):
decision for myself, I don'tthink would have existed if
music wasn't what it is for me.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
Yeah, was it hard for you not to write sad.
Woe is me songs to forceyourself to be so.

Speaker 2 (38:28):
Oh, I did write sad, woe is me horrible, it
depressing songs.
I just threw them all away.
Oh, wow, yeah, well, you knowwhat one of our local examples
is.
Is Jeff Tweedy right, and haveyou?
Have you read his books by anychance?
So his first book was kind ofabout his own experience as a
person, as a songwriter, findinghimself and Susan, you know his

(38:52):
marriage and his family andthrough his band, kind of
becoming his own salvation sortof.
And then a second book was howto write one song.
And but how you write just onesong is you make yourself a
songwriting machine and youwrite songs every day, and and

(39:14):
so his, his point is anybody canwrite one song, but it's also,
if you can write one song, youcan write one song all the time.
And so you write a lot of songsand you throw out a lot of
stuff.
But you can't write the goodones without writing the bad
ones.
That's really, I think, thepoint or a point he was trying
to make.
You don't get, you don't get agreat song without throwing

(39:34):
stuff out.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
Yeah, it's.
It's tremendous, though, thatthat sort of process led to this
, versus because there's a lotof, you know, wonderful songs
that are about really shitty,depressing moments, you know,
and those and being publishedand produced, and yet your
process was in.

(39:56):
Your then result was was quitedifferent.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, I mean I love the Smiths and the cure, right,
right.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
It's like a pretty, you know a modeling song, but
yeah, I think, for what Ping hastried to represent over the
years, it's a it's communication.
It's not just let me tell youabout myself, it's about let's
find common ground.
And so I think if I wrote areally personal record about how

(40:25):
miserable I was, that wouldn'ttranslate.
Somebody would identify with itand it's like, yeah, I've been
through that too, but theyprobably wouldn't want to listen
to it more than once.
So yeah, I wanted to.
I wanted to write something thatat least became like a Monty
Python sketch.
If it was talking about thingsthat were ridiculous and awful,
it was funny.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Mm.
Hmm.
Yeah, there is a lot of humoron the album and in the videos.
That yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
And really bad hand puns you had.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
In one of the videos it's being your hands.
You had the the Taraway sheets.
Yeah as you were doing thelyrics, and that had to be very
hard because there is a lot thatyou were dealing with.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I had one shot at that.
You know, blaine that's AndrewPickett is the director for that
video he did, he did two of thethree.
He did the one in the calledWaiting Room and he did rhyming
dictionary.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
So yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
And he's and he explained it.
He tried to prep me.
He said you get one chance atthis.
We've got one book to tear awayyeah.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Yeah, yeah so it's very well done, yeah.
Yeah, did you have somebodylike in the back or like calling
out like, okay, pause on thatone.
Okay, now keep going.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
Yeah, he was, he was great, he was the camera
operator and he his.
His wife was his productiondirector, anyway, I forget.
It says a Donnie picket andsays what her actual title was.
But yeah, she was, she was.
They were both walkingbackwards and she had a
stopwatch and we did it at halfspeed and so you heard your time

(42:04):
counting and she would go tear.
And she was timing it to thelyrics.
So the lyrics were everythingwas playing back at half speed,
wow.
And she and she had marker when,when there was time for the
page to go.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
I would never have thought that.
As, yeah, it turned out verynatural.
I love the kids in thebackground picking up yeah
torturing children.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
He's littering Very bad example for kids who are
trying their best to help.
Yeah, yeah.
So the yeah the video is iswalking through fairgrounds and
and gathering people as we.
You know, we got a crowd oflike 10 or 15.
But, yeah, we had a bunch ofkids and the kids were assigned
picking up all the garbage thatI was throwing on the ground.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
That's great Super fun.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Do you get to see much music for fun?

Speaker 2 (42:56):
No, I don't, yeah, hardly at all.
Yeah, fortunately, I still findit fun to go see music and then
write about it.
Sure, there are times when Iknow there's another deadline.
When you work on Monday morningthat I know it's like, oh my
gosh, I'm going to be up tillfive writing about this.
Yeah, then it seems like worksometimes Right, but I just

(43:17):
couldn't stop.
I don't want to.
I have a law, it's calledStevie's law and Stevie's law is
always go to the show Becausethere were.
There were three shows in a row.
I was a college freshman andI'm old and Peter Gabriel's so
tour came to champagne and itwas.

(43:39):
It was a campus event, so youcould have got the best seats
for dirt cheap.
Ticket price Right and andseeing the biggest tour that
Peter Gabriel ever mounted, andI had tickets for that show and
I was failing chemistry BecauseI was.
You're supposed to take a 15hour workload as a freshman.
I was taking 21 hours of hardclasses, and I was.

(44:02):
I was failing a class, and youknow that wasn't in my
background.
I was used to, you know, beingthe goody two shoes best in the
class, sure, and so I didn't goto that show and everybody on
the dorm floor came back.
After wearing t-shirts programslike this was miserable and I

(44:24):
failed the test.
Oh, no.
And I dropped the class becauseI got.
I got half a brain and I tookit over the summer.
And then the kinks there was aradio contest and the kinks are
huge for me.
I love the kinks and somebodyasked a kinks question on the

(44:45):
radio and I was like we'll becalled on that.
Of course I knew the answer wasa kinks question.
I said you've just won a pairof tickets to see the kinks play
it.
Wherever they were playing itmight have even been in Metro.
I think it was the to the bonetours and it was the last tour
that the kinks did.
Wow, nobody knew that, right,but I had tickets to see the
last time the kinks played inChicago.

(45:06):
Oh my gosh, to this day.
And I had an exam and I was notdoing well and I didn't have a
car and you know I could have.
I should have been able to findanybody say, hey, who wants to
go see the kinks?
I got free tickets, right, andI didn't go to the show.
The kinks broke up.

(45:27):
Oh, that's, painful, and thenthe last, the straw, the broth
Campbell's back, yeah.
And then I had the same, butthe same same setup.
I had front row balcony ticketsat Folinger Auditorium, which
would be like front row centerat Metro, standing on the rail
to see Stevie Ray Vaughn and hisbrother, jimmy, come out on the

(45:50):
family style tour and play aStevie Ray Vaughn show and Jimmy
and they did the whole bitwhere where Jimmy comes and
plays over his brother'sshoulders and the encore and all
that.
And I didn't go to that show.
I was in a helicopter flyingout of Alpine Valley and
perished and I said, in honor ofStevie Ray Vaughn, I am
enacting a new law.
From now, forever forward, itis Stevie's law which is always,

(46:13):
always go to the show, so allmy stories are shaggy dog
stories.
They take forever to tell.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
That's.
That's a tribute.
A tribute to Stevie Ray Vaughn.
Yeah, I think that's a goodlesson for everybody is always
go to the show.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
That's right.
Should we take a break there?
Let's take a break, okay.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Karen, should we do our?

Speaker 3 (46:33):
record of the week.
Record of the week.
Record.
Record of the week.
What do you got?
We are dialing that in, by theway.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah, I think maybe we need some voice lessons, but
oh no, I like it raw.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Um, I have a record of the week.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
It's a throwback, cause you know me, I am always
about the old records that havebeen out for a long time.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
You always say that, and what do I always tell you?
We never really review a newrecord, that's true, that's what
people like Jeff can do.
That's right.
Review new records Yep.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
I'm going to review an old record.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
All right, what do you?

Speaker 3 (47:06):
got.
Um.
It's by a band called built tospill Uh-huh.
They have a million songs thatare fantastic on all sorts of
different albums, but this oneis particularly a favorite of
mine.
Keep it like a secret, okay,and came out in 1999.
This was the album that my bandwould listen to on the road
trips up and down the West coast.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
And just very solid memories of the Pacific
Northwest and my bandmate MarkManning, just driving the Chevy
truck, all the equipment in theback and you know, just
listening to built to spill.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
And this particular album.
I love it.
It's very start to finish ajourney and this is also a band
that it's.
The album is beautiful tolisten to in the car and then
when you go to see them live, itis a great experience.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (48:03):
You know, sometimes it's one or the other with a
band built to spill brings it.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
And you would actually appreciate it because I
know you like the jam bandykind of thing.
I've seen them.
Okay, so you know.
So they go on epic journeyswith their music and you know
they fly off that not fly offthe handle, but you know they'll
take on on a ride and then theyflew off the handle.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
One guy, one guy punched.
One guy punched me in the face.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
You got punched in the face.
I'm just joking, oh my God,that would be a good story of.
Some guy from you know, doug,from built to spill, punched you
in the face.
Yeah, I think his name is Dougisn't it yeah?
Yeah, anyway, so highlyrecommend it.
If and they are coming intotown, so tell you.
Hall May 4th.
I have no idea if it's sold outor not, but if not, you should

(48:49):
get yourself a ticket or get ona radio station and win a prize.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Or if this airs after the show, then ask somebody how
it was.
There you go.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
Which it probably will.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Probably will.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
Anyway, but there it is next time around.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Go see them.
They are amazing.
I'm not proud.
Saw them and I didn't.
I didn't think they weretogether anymore, or I mean.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
But it's been a while .

Speaker 1 (49:12):
Yeah, it's been a while since they played here.
They just came out with a newalbum and it's readily available
where most of their albums arenot in print anymore, and so If
anybody comes across one at arecord store, feel free to send
it to me.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
Yeah, we take gifts.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yeah, you can call us at wwwrecordsinrealestatecom
and send things that way.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Yeah, to that address .

Speaker 1 (49:41):
So I don't know if you know this, but we're back
with Jeff Elbel oh we are.

Speaker 3 (49:44):
Hey, jeff, I didn't see you sitting there.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Yeah.
So I mean we could keep talking, and talking, and talking, and
I wish we could, but we all havelives, unfortunately, and I
need to get home to my two and ahalf year old and my wife was
pregnant eight months.
Wow, and really yeah, so weneed to move the conversation
along, and you know this is,we'll have you back.

(50:09):
We will have you back for sure.
This is records in real estate.
And you know, usually we have aguest that's like, oh, I'm
gonna go to the real estate.
And you know, usually we have aguest that's sort of knows a
lot about music, not so muchabout real estate, or vice versa
.
Obviously, you know a ton aboutmusic, do you know anything
about real estate?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
My connection to Chicago real estate would be
through the theaters that I lovegoing to or the venues that I
love going to, the clubs, yeah,and that's where the interview
would be turned around and I'dbe asking you about all these
theaters that I really shouldknow the history.
So yeah, I don't know that I'dbe able to answer that, but but
like the rooms I find myself inthe most often, I'm at the Vic a

(50:49):
lot.
Yes, because you know a lot ofthe, the level of band that I
like to follow play at the Vic.
You know whatever, that is 1800.
I think it's 15 to 1800, soundsabout right probably, and but
you know I love the auditorium.
Theater is like that for me islike that's church you know,
auditorium theater, like sort ofthe loop ish.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I mean, right, that's on Congress, right, yes, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Gorgeous.
I've seen a number of showsthere.
I saw Karen's favorite, bobDylan, that's been around in
that auditorium has been arounda long time, yeah, and if you're
in the fifth balcony at theauditorium theater, you feel
like you are five blocks awayfrom what's happening.
I saw it.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
It's just the other side of the block way up in the
back I saw speaking of talkingheads.
I saw David Burns production inthat at like, at the very back.
Oh yeah, you saw it from fromfive blocks away, five blocks
away, but it was so lovely, yeah, and still very enjoyable that
was one of my three favoritesThree favorite shows at that

(51:56):
venue.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
The other two would have been Nick Cave and the Bad
Seeds and Wilco when I firstmoved here.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
I saw Wilco there too .
Yeah, like in I don't know2000,.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
like 2010, 2012 or 2013 or something like that,
yeah, I should be able to tellyou exactly what record that
would have been.
But that wouldn't be sky bluesky, maybe I don't know, they're
probably higher than that.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Well enough, but yes, I've seen Wilco there two times
Nice.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Nice.
But Chicago theater yeah, itwas state and lake.
Yeah, gorgeous room, not asornate as the auditorium, or
maybe more ornate than theauditorium, but feels a little
more used and broken in, maybeRight, and then on in Uptown,
the Riviera, sure, which alwaysseems like it could use a little

(52:42):
more love.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Well, they have put some money into it lately.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
It's right, it's.
It's just different than myfirst experience, right yeah?

Speaker 1 (52:52):
So I saw on your Facebook.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
That he likes.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Hit sitcom from the 80s, different strokes Karen was
doing some research for a guestof ours and, you know, just
came across something on yourFacebook page and you know, like
when Facebook first came out,you know you get to like like
certain things.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yeah, what are you into?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Actually I think it was Michael Levestre and she's,
she's kind of just came uppulled out of nowhere, so you're
a different strokes fan.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
I think you do some impersonations, do some
impressions for me.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
So so I saw on your Facebook page that you noted a
producer or record label giantthat just died Sydney.
Oh, seymour Stein, seymourStein, yeah, and stick with me
for a second here.
So we we talked a lot aboutsort of bigger acts.
Oh, we were talking about umbopand how unfortunate it is that

(53:52):
that was sort of got all themarketing dollars, which is why
you know local bands, localrecord producers, record labels
and chirp radio.
I think is really important.
I was listening to chirp.
Our most recent guest used toDJ for chirp and just became
aware of their FM radio stationand they were playing a lot of

(54:16):
Sydney Stein stuff and mentionedthat that he had passed and
what a giant he was.
And, uh, saw on your Facebookpage that you were a fan of his.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Yeah, I have a.
I have a one degree ofseparation personal connection
to Seymour, One of my very bestfriends from.
California was signed bySeymour.
Oh wow, so he was one of hislater signings.
Nice, who's that?
That was a guy named AndrewWesley, okay, and he was in a
band in the late 90s called theAnt Beddies.
Okay, and they were a greatcross, but somewhere between the

(54:50):
Sex Pistols and the RollingStones they were in boat with a
bunch of Bowie thrown in.
So glam, rock, rock and rollSure.
Seymour loved them and signedthem, but they were a West Coast
band.
Seymour is an East Coast guyand so they got mbocked out of
existence because the West Coastteam if you've ever heard of
Nottisurf, nottisurf and AntBeddies signed and put out there

(55:14):
at the exact same time, butNottisurf were in the community
that was nurturing them and theAnt Beddies were not, so
Nottisurf still tours today.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Wow, that's crazy.
I mean, that's how the industryworks and unfortunately, you
know you missed out on a lot ofgood bands just because they
don't get the promotion, I'msure.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
But yeah, but Andy still makes us living in music
in other ways.
He's a producer, he's anengineer, he plays in bands, you
know.
So we kind of do some of thesame sorts of things in order to
keep doing what we love.
But yeah, Seymour Stein,everybody knows Seymour Stein by
one degree of separation,because they've heard of Madonna
.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
But I've heard of Madonna.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
I've heard of yeah, yeah, how lucky Sounding
familiar.
It's a painting, don't golooking.

Speaker 3 (56:03):
Madonna, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
But he also you know the Smiths talking heads.
Oh, and for crying out loud,poster children from my adopted
hometown of Champaign.
So poster children arepolitically you know.
They're an activist math rockband that still plays now.
You might like them.
They're going to be playing inChicago this summer.
So now they're so far along.

(56:26):
We're talking that they startedback in the early 90s, but now
they still record and play nowand then, and so they're college
professors at ISU, the singeron the basis, to kind of keep
the band thriving.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
What is math rock?

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Oh, anything you can do to avoid four-four time, I
guess.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
How would you distinguish math rock from like
prog rock?
Because they do a lot of weirdtime signatures and math rock is
rooted in punk rock.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
Prog rock is rooted in classic rock and classical
music.
I guess that's what I'd say.
So you know, for my friends andposter children, I know that
they, like their musical idols,would be talking heads and gang
of four and then hardcore bandsthat I know nothing about.

(57:18):
But yeah, if you, if you hadRick Valentin on the show, he
would, he would school you onall the hardcore bands that he
loves.
But yeah, I connected becausehe and Rose Marschak, the, the,
the basis and the partners inthe band are, yeah, they're,
they're nerds.
So I came out of the engineeringschool college of engineering
at U of I and managed to findfind their way into music.

(57:41):
So they were role models.
Rose just wrote a great bookcalled Play Like a man.
It's a great book.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
I'm interested in that.
Yeah, what's what's the take?

Speaker 2 (57:56):
Well, the take is be your own person, regardless of
who you are and don't letanybody tell you otherwise.
Right, and but it's kind ofit's, it's her journey in
technology, or poster childrenwere, were early adopters of
everything related to theInternet and they kind of
invented.
You know, it's a, it's a glitthing to say, but they, they

(58:18):
were, they, they were podcasting.
Before there there was a wordcalled podcast.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
So the radio zero program Nice.

Speaker 2 (58:26):
Was was early on, the was on the early end of that.
So her, her take yeah, it was.
You know it's, it's aboutfemale, or it has the female
perspective and her perspective.
But I don't, I can't speak forRose very well.
Yeah she's, she's, she, she.

(58:48):
She could be pointed to as afeminist icon, but I think she's
a role model for anybody.
She's a role model for mydaughters in music and
technology and being progressiveand forward and confident in in
a man's world or any world.
And that's the thing I thinkthat makes it different is she's
not breaking it down to throwhalf the population away.

(59:10):
She's just, it's sort of don't,don't take it from anybody,
right, you know, you know, don'tdon't agree from anybody.
Be be you and then do it.
At the same time, she, she,also recognizes that half the
population is disadvantaged andwhat they're trying to do yeah.
So I don't know if she treadsthat line a lot better than than
I can do it on a behalf, butit's.

(59:30):
It's a really interesting bookand it's got a lot going on,
yeah sounds great.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
Let's hear the last name again.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Marshak M A R S H A C K Marshak Play like a man.
Yeah, play like a man is herbook.
It's on the University ofIllinois Press.
She is the director of thecreative technologies program at
Illinois State University, wow,where my daughter Melody went
to interview, and and RickValentin, her husband, is the
professor in the creativetechnologies track that my

(59:58):
daughter most wanted to go into.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Oh nice.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
She found the track at Northern Illinois University,
so she's going to go there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Congrats, but yeah, are you passionate about Wheaton
?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Sorry, I just trying to throw out something real
estate, you know, I mean, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Wheaton, sort of you know, and it's a lovely
community.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
But it is.
It's a lovely community.
You won't find a lot of peoplewho spend a lot of time in
Chicago.
Talk about passion for WheatonI like Wheaton.
Wheaton's good.
Yeah, you'll find people.
What do you like about Wheaton?
Well, we came from Laundale inLos Angeles County, okay, and

(01:00:45):
which was not.
I also mentioned the Sikaran.
I don't like I don't like tosay this or talk about it, but
I'll mention it.
It sounds kind of horrible.
I didn't think that was a goodplace for our kids to go to
school.
Now I'd rather would have beenin Laundale and been part of
positive change and engaging thecommunity.
I knowing the way Megan wasgoing at a very young age, I

(01:01:10):
think that would have been a badenvironment and Los Angeles was
amazing for me and not for mywife.
I was really connected to musicin Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Like I said, it was perfect for me to do what I did,
but she didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
She was really isolated there, and so we moved
here, because we have friendsthat lived in Wheaton and my
best friend from high schoollived in Wheaton and my best
friend, monica Doyle, fromundergrad and graduate school at
U of I, also lived in Wheaton,nice, and so we moved there and

(01:01:47):
our girls went from kindergartenall the way through and
graduated high school in oneschool system.
That was not an experience thateither Melinda or I had.
Yeah, I was in differentschools all the time Nice, so
it's a great family community,absolutely, and it's not
Naperville Right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Right Well, and it seems as though you have
certainly found your Chicagomusic family as well.

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
Right, yeah, I'm in town as often as I can.
I'm probably in town every week, yeah, and when things are
really haywire I might be intown four times a week yeah.
And that's because of it, muchBecause of Stevie's Law, yes,
and you've got to feed themonster, but if the Claudettes
are playing, I'm going to be intown.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Well, we should go see a car.
Yeah, they're great and theyhave a new lead now, rachel.

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Yeah, I'm really looking.
I mean, everybody in the bandis so I stammer, stammer,
stammer.
I love Barrett Barrett'smarvelous talent and former
singer.
Yeah, former singer BarrettOlseth, who made these records
that I brought for vision youcan see in the pocket, so high
times in the dark and theClaudettes go out is the latest

(01:03:00):
Nice.
Those were both made withBarrett but Barrett put in, you
know, a lengthy tenure with theClaudettes and toured everywhere
and she's she's got newpriorities in her life and I
hope she's a super, super happydoing whatever comes next.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
And so now they've got a brand new singer, first
name Rachel, right?
I don't know.
Actually I think her name isRachel, and if her name isn't
Rachel, I'll apologize for usingthe same person.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
See you in person.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Yeah, eventually I'll .
I'll know her name as well asBarrett's.
Yeah, but I'm really eager to.
I know everybody else in theband is really stoked.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
Just top notch musicians.
It's just a fun show, very highenergy and but they can also.
You know they've got that.
They've got the chops to gosubtle and play just beautifully
.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
They can do the cabaret, the Bert Backer act
thing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
And then they can do the Minutemen thing, and they do
the Otis band thing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
It's, it's the breath in that band is is unmatched.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Well, you're hoping to get iguana on?
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's going tohappen.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
All right, yeah, yeah Will it happen.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Yeah, oh, go on and play his on four tracks, but
he's featured on Lazy Louis, soI said I wanted to.
I was, I wanted an Otis Banmeets, uh, nikki Hopkins.
Otis Ban meets Nikki Hopkinspiano and he did it.
Nice.
Yeah, not many can, so I'll goback and listen to that song,
just so I can hear him play.

Speaker 1 (01:04:26):
Yeah, when do people who stream can they find the
three finger opera?

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Yes, yeah, they can find it at ping P I N G the
other half of Pongpingbandcampcom.
And they can find it at Spotify, okay Great.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Well, Jeff, this has been just an amazing
conversation.
We're very fortunate to haveyou on as a guest and, uh, just
loved hearing your stories andtalking music and a little bit
about real estate not askingabout Wheaton, but Wheaton was a
good place to raise a family Ido, love, I do love Wheaton.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
I love Wheaton, but maybe not passionately.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
He's got the.
I heart Wheaton.
Yeah, I've got the.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
I heart.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
Wheaton On his back.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Yeah, that's enough.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
Thank you so much.
It's been great, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Thank you both Really really had a good time,
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
Karen.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Yes, andrew.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Why are you back in Chicago?

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Oh, um.
Well.
So Jeff, our guest is a greatguest, said you know, if you
want to connect with people, gopersonal.
So I'm going to tell youpersonally that I came back to
Chicago.
I was living in the Bay Areafor 21 years and then my mom was
diagnosed with dementia and myparents you know, they all my

(01:05:50):
brothers are away One in NewYork and one in Springfield,
illinois and I thought I neededto get out of the Bay Area.
I was ready to leave.
I'd been there for a while andit was just time, and the
universe always tells me whereto go next.
I always get a sign and I waswaiting for about six years for
the sign to happen where to go,where to go.
And then I got that call and Iwas like that's where I need to

(01:06:13):
be.
And, um, you know, when I wasgrowing up and and when I left
Chicago to go to school inMichigan, I vowed I would never
come back.
You know it's all the angstyteenage things and I screw this
town and, um, now I'm back and Iactually really love Chicago.
Sounds good.
I'm very, very happy to be backand it's finally, after three

(01:06:34):
years, it's it's feeling likehome.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
Yeah, well, you came back at a rough time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
I mean, obviously it was rough transition, you know,
having to sort of learn how tobe caretaker, um, and then yeah,
and I literally like the weekor maybe two weeks after I
landed back here, my mom landedin the hospital, ended up
needing a pacemaker and then hada collapsed lung, and my dad
broke his foot in five placesand was in a wheelchair.

(01:07:01):
Yeah, and so it was, andeveryone did.
This day is like you came backright at the right time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
I guess that is true.
Did I or could I have juststayed away and avoided that?
That's right, Somebody wouldhave figured it out.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Uh, yeah, maybe, I guess probably, you probably
would.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
But he also came back and there was a pandemic, and
then there, was a pandemic.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
So, yeah, there was a little, a bit of a rough start,
let's say, um, but I met you,or I re connected with you, yes,
and it's been really justlovely.
It has been lovely.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
It's been branching out and getting to know people
here, Lovely to have you as partof our Be Realty family and
lovely to have you as a co-hoston records in real estate and go
out and have fun and listen tomusic for dinners, and let's
keep doing it.
Let's do that, all right.
Okay, this has been an episodeof records in real estate.

(01:07:55):
Thanks for listening.
We hope you enjoyed it.
Today's episode was brought toyou by Be Realty Be where you
want to be.
Be Realty.