August 11, 2025 • 32 mins
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In this week’s episode, I sit with a heartfelt question from our community—how do we hold someone accountable without slipping into control and codependence?—and we look honestly at what true support really is, including whether asking a spouse to “prove” sobriety crosses a line; from a Soul Recovery perspective, we remember that we are powerless over other people and powerful within ourselves, so instead of policing or shaming, we practice loving detachment, clear boundaries, and compassionate curiosity—asking, “What would truly support you?” while staying anchored in our own healing. The hard truth is we cannot make anyone recover, and when we try to manage their journey it often comes from our own fear and wounds—which means it’s an invitation back to our inner work.
This episode begins a new two-part experiment, and on Friday’s Bonus podcast by subscription, I’ll take you deeper, applying the 9-Step Soul Recovery Process to dig deeper in the 'how to' on this topic.
Listen to the Bonus Friday Podcast as an Apple Podcast subscriber or for FREE the first week as a Free Patreon Member- this is a great way to support the Recover Your Soul Community AND get access to over
The Soul Recovery FREE Zoom Support Group will meet on September 8th due to Labor Day, and there is still time to register for the upcoming in-person retreat in Asheville NC September 13-14th. Visit the website to learn more and register!
This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not allied or representative of any organizations or religions, but is based on the opinions and experience of Rev. Rachel Harrison or guests. The host claims no responsibility to any person or entity for any liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly as a result of the use, application, or interpretation of the information presented herein. Take what you need and leave the rest.
Rev. Rachel Harrison and Recover Your Soul www.recoveryoursoul.net
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rev Rachel Harrison (00:00):
Today's episode was in reflection to one
of the comments made by acommunity member, and the
question was can you holdsomeone accountable and not be
in control?
And I think this is reallyimportant from our soul recovery
perspective.
How do we help support thepeople in our lives who are
trying to maybe get sober ortrying to do better in their
lives without being in controland losing ourselves and falling
(00:23):
back into codependence?
I'm also conducting anexperiment for this episode,
which is that you will have themain episode here on Monday and
then I'm going to do a deeperfollow-up dive using the
nine-step soul recovery processon the bonus podcast on Friday.
You can listen to that for freeon Patreon or support the show
by becoming an Apple Podcastsubscriber or Patreon member.
(00:44):
Enjoy the episode.
Welcome to the Recover your Soulpodcast a spiritual path to a
happy and healthy life.
My name is Rev Rachel Harrison.
I started Recover your Soulafter having profound changes in
my life from my recovery ofalcoholism, codependency and
control addiction.
I was guided to share the toolsand principles of spirituality
(01:08):
and soul recovery to help otherstransform their lives as mine
was transformed.
For us to overcome externalcircumstances, we need to turn
the attention to ourselves,focusing on our inner change and
healing.
Positive results in our liveswill follow.
Welcome to the Recovery SoulPodcast and community.
(01:30):
I'm Rev Rachel and I'm just sohonored to be here with you
today.
We are walking together on thisspiritual path to a happy and
healthy life.
We are learning how to take ourpower back.
We are learning that we can beokay when the people in the
world around us are prettycomplicated, because it is
complicated and our lives arecomplicated and if you're here,
(01:52):
you might be in a complicatedand difficult and potentially
painful situation in your lifeas well.
And this soul recovery processis giving us tools.
The nine steps soul recoveryprocess is giving us tools on
how to manage the stuff that'son the outside, by turning the
attention to ourselves, doingour own inner spiritual work,
(02:13):
really recognizing what's goingon with us, because everything
is an opportunity for our soulto learn and grow and expand.
This is a spiritual path.
This is our own awakening.
And one of the things that wetalk about a lot is addiction,
because that's sort of how thiswas formed for me.
I'm a recovered alcoholic.
(02:34):
More than that, I'm a recoveredcodependent.
My husband was an alcoholic.
My kids are still dealing withaddiction.
They grew up in an alcoholichome.
They did what they learned,they did potentially what was in
their genes and that wholeprocess of learning how to
handle a household and a systemthat ran off of addiction and
(02:57):
heal myself, first and foremost.
And it has transformed andchanged our family dynamics.
Not that my kids aren't sober,because they certainly are not.
Not that my husband's sober,because, as you know my story,
I've been sober seven and a halfyears.
He just came around to solidsobriety a year and a half ago.
And what I wanted to talk abouttoday is this concept around
(03:22):
control Control versusaccountability.
How do you hold somebodyaccountable without being in
control if they are on a path ofwanting to make change in their
life?
Maybe it's recovery, maybe it'sdoing better in their physical
fitness or in their health or intheir mental well-being,
whatever it is and you are withsomebody and you want to be
(03:45):
helpful in helping them to beaccountable.
And how do you not control?
And this came because I got acomment and I wish I could
remember where the comment was.
I can receive comments onsocial media, from different
posts, or on YouTube, fromvideos or on Spotify, and
sometimes people email me.
So I love, love, love when yougive comments, even on the
(04:07):
Patreon page.
I love that you give commentsbecause I want to know what
you're thinking, I want to knowwhat's going on for you and a
lot of times it helps me to beable to respond on the soul
recovery journey.
And her comment was how do youhold somebody accountable when
they are on their own recoveryjourney?
(04:28):
And for her, it's alcohol withher spouse.
Thing that she mentioned in thecomment was is it okay for me
to have him blow in the alcoholmeter when he's supposed to be
being sober?
He has a car that he can'tdrive unless he uses the
whatever that I'm not evenremembering what it's called
(04:48):
where you have to blow into itto drive.
But can I also make him blow athome to prove to me that he's
sober?
And I thought this was such agreat question because we have
this dance betweenaccountability and what is that
when it's in control.
So we're going to talk aboutthat from a soul recovery
(05:10):
perspective and I'm going to dosomething today.
That has been an experiment,because many of you know that I
have a bonus podcast everyFriday.
I started this a couple yearsago.
It is a incredible deeper diveinto the soul recovery journey,
and I've been trying to figureout how to utilize this platform
(05:30):
to really benefit the people inthis community to the most, and
I had been kind of toying withthe idea of rebranding it into
more of a spiritual space wherewe could take a deeper dive into
the spiritual space.
And I'm leaning away from thatand going to do that in another
space of the Awaken.
Your Soul is going to probablyjust be a YouTube channel, but I
(05:52):
really want to help you in thesoul recovery and the soul
recovery process and, especiallyas I'm working on the books,
that it's clear to me how manyof you are right here in this
deep place in your life whereyou've got somebody who says
they're going to be sober, butthey're not.
They're making differentchoices.
So how do we use soul recovery?
(06:13):
So I'm going to do anexperiment today I'm going to do
the normal podcast and thenthis Friday on the bonus podcast
, I'm going to dig into it evendeeper.
I'm going to take this conceptand we're going to work on it
from the nine step soul recoveryprocess.
I'm going to give you a littlebit more in depth what you would
do to process through, becauseI can't get to that depth of
(06:38):
description in these podcasts.
It just would.
It's too much, it takes toomuch time and I get I get a
little fuzzy about how to giveyou the how-to information.
So we're going to do anexperiment.
So on Friday, on the bonuspodcast, which you can listen to
as an Apple podcast subscriberor a Patreon member, and on
Patreon you can listen for thefirst week for free, so you
(07:01):
don't even have to pay.
On Apple it's only $3.99 amonth, and on Patreon you can
decide whether you want to be a$5, $15 or $25 a month
subscriber, depending on how youwant to support me.
So I really want you to have itfor free.
So go get it for free on Friday, okay.
So just so you know this is anexperiment.
We're going to see how it goes.
In soul recovery, we arelearning that we are powerless
(07:24):
over every single thing outsideof ourselves.
This is step number two in soulrecovery.
It is a profound change whenyou start to realize that, no
matter how loving you are, nomatter how good intentioned you
are, no matter how much you knowfor a fact that if this person
(07:44):
would make these other changesin their lives.
They would make these decisionsin their lives, that they would
benefit that it learning thatit is not our job to force or
make or fix or control somebodyelse's journey.
(08:15):
But that doesn't mean that youdon't show up from your best,
most healed, most authentic,most loving self.
But that most healed, authentic, loving self doesn't always
mean that we're there in the mixof it, with them for every step
of the way, and it may meanthat you don't end up having a
(08:39):
relationship with this person.
It may mean that you have arelationship, but you have
clarity of what lovingdetachment is.
The first part of thisconversation where she's saying
is it okay or should I I thinkit was actually should I have
him prove that he is notdrinking by blowing as a form of
(09:00):
accountability, when heactually can't drive unless he
blows clean?
What does that look like insoul recovery?
What I first and foremost wantto say is that every one of your
situations is unique anddifferent to you.
There's no way that I can sithere in this space and have an
(09:24):
idea of every person's situation.
How many years you've beentogether, how many times you've
been on this rodeo ride, whatare the conversations that you
have together?
What is your soul contractstogether?
What's your level of commitmentto your own healing?
What is their level ofcommitment to their own healing?
There's so many variables thatare so unique to each and every
(09:46):
person that the key concepts inthis that I'm going to stay
afloat on a more soul recovery,higher level, I want you to
recognize and know that you arein your own unique situation and
there's so much wisdom withinyou.
There's so much wholeness andwisdom within you to be able to
(10:07):
access what you need in thismoment to make the right
decisions for yourself.
I'm going to talk on thesurface level.
Addiction is this crazy aspectof ourself where we can say in
any moment, I mean, I can't.
(10:28):
I've said this before, I'm justgoing to say it again.
I can't tell you how many timeswhen I was in the depths of my
addiction that I told myself Iwas not going to drink.
That day, I didn't want todrink.
That day I knew I was drinkingpoison.
I knew that it was killing me.
I knew that my life was fallingapart.
I knew that the greatest thingthat I could do for myself was
(10:51):
to not participate in drinking,that it was not good for me in
any form.
And yet, whatever that iswithin you where you lose
control, is what drives you tothe liquor store, is what buys
the bottle of wine or the beers,it's what brings you home.
Liquor store is what buys thebottle of wine or the beers.
It's what brings you home, andthe whole time you're saying to
yourself I'm not going to dothis.
I looked myself in the eyes andsaid I wasn't going to do it.
(11:14):
I looked my husband in the eyesand said I wasn't going to do
it.
And there I am doing it, andthat's the part that needs some
grace.
But it isn't an excuse Becauseultimately, the incredibly
profound piece is that we havechoice and we can make a
decision at every moment.
(11:38):
Such an important piece to me iseven in those moments when I
was in this flux of fightingwith myself.
It would not have helped ifsomeone had said I need you to
prove to me that you're soberand I'm going to.
I need accountability for this.
That would have felt shamefulto me.
(11:58):
And again, I really want you torecognize that each one of your
situations is unique anddifferent, and so there's a lot
of other safety factors.
You know, are they driving kidsin cars and you know all this
stuff.
That is your unique situation.
It the likelihood for me ableto make that decision and choice
(12:26):
for myself reduces, becausethen I'm stuck with the shame
that I feel like I'm receivingfrom somebody else and I'll use
this right now for my 30 daysugar cleanse that I'm on right
now.
And if any of you are followingme on social media, you know
that I did a post that on August4th I started a 30 day of no
sugar and I invited all of youto join me, not necessarily on
sugar, but it was off of the theaddiction and the nine step
(12:49):
soul recovery podcast that I didon July 7th.
What in your life are you havingthis habitual situation in your
life where you can't or youdon't feel like it's working for
you?
I know that sugar is a triggerfor me.
I do not have a food addiction,but I will choose a sweet over
(13:11):
something savory and healthy ifI have to get something quick.
And it's hurting my hands.
It's making my arthritis insane.
You know my hands are swollen,my joints ache, I'm clearly
inflamed.
It's not good for me.
I weigh a little bit more thanI'd like to.
I don't feel as good as I'dlike to and in that same sense,
(13:33):
I know, just like when I wasdrinking the poison of alcohol,
that it's not good for me.
So I made this commitment onthe 4th of August to not have
sugar for 30 days, and then Iwill see and work a healthier
lifestyle and once I get pastthose cravings that I've been
having, I definitely just wantto move into a place where it is
(13:56):
a very minimal place in my life, instead of having as many
sweets as I've been having on aregular basis.
Are you ready to step into yoursoul recovery?
Visit the website recover yoursoulnet to learn more about the
nine step soul recovery process.
I hope that you'll join us thefirst Monday of every month for
the free soul recovery supportgroup on zoom, where we learn
(14:18):
more about soul recovery andconnect with each other.
If you'd like to work directlywith me to move through the nine
step soul recovery and connectwith each other, if you'd like
to work directly with me to movethrough the nine-step soul
recovery process, I'm here foryou, but you can also choose to
work the steps on your own, withindividual modules intended to
support you to work at your ownpace and on your own time.
And if you want even more soulrecovery, join us for the
Recover your Soul bonus podcastfor Patreon members and Apple
(14:41):
podcast subscribers, where Iinterview amazing people sharing
soul recovery tips for us andalso do spiritual book studies.
You can also find dailyinspiration on Facebook and
Instagram and join our privateFacebook community.
Visit the website for moreinformation, links and
registration for everything.
Back to the episode.
Registration for everything.
(15:18):
Back to the episode.
Pee pass.
And so we went into the tent andwe got some Italian food and we
had.
We were having some pasta andthis lady came around with this
big box of amazing lookingfreshly made desserts Cream
puffs, one of my favorite thingson the dessert tray and I just
said, thank you so much.
I'm doing a no sugar thingright now.
And she said, okay, if Richardturned to me and kind of
(15:41):
assaulted me, right, well, it'sa good thing you didn't have any
sugar, I bet you were reallytempted.
You know it's a no, no, no, no.
And it did this whole guiltthing about how I better stick
with my diet.
That would not have helped mewant to continue to make this
choice because it wasn't easy tonot take the pastry.
You know what's interesting,the accountability that I feel
(16:06):
is so strong within me right now, the choice that I'm making,
that I didn't want any of.
I really didn't need or wantany of that, but him not doing
that made it so much easier forme just to stand in it and be
really grateful.
He was like, wow, those lookdelicious.
Good job.
(16:26):
And he didn't have one either,because he's doing reduced sugar
.
I felt supported in that moment.
Good job, not.
Oh, it's a good thing that youdidn't right.
We do this thing where we thinkthat we're being helpful for the
other person but we're reallyjust shaming them.
And this is very complicatedwhen somebody is trying to quit
(16:48):
drinking and I don't want todiscount how incredibly
complicated it is because you'vehad somebody who you feel has
lied to you and I want you tohear me say that in those
moments when they're looking youin the eyes and they're saying,
I want this, these are thedecisions I'm going to make,
they feel and they want thosethings.
In those moments Addiction isnot about the substance or the
(17:11):
behavior.
Addiction is about the soul inthe emptiness, and the work that
needs to be done inside andultimately, in the end, we can't
determine whether somebodywants to heal or not on the
inside.
We can't make anybody lovethemselves.
We can't force them to takecare of themselves.
(17:32):
We can't force them to wantthat for themselves.
And so, ultimately, this conceptof accountability versus
control is very complicated,because my belief is that it is
a conversation that you havewith that person when they're in
their most right mind and youask them what would be most
(17:56):
supportive to you.
How can I support you in this?
What would be things that Icould say?
What would be things that Icould do to be helpful to you?
Now, one of the things that'shelpful is Rich is not having
sugar with me Now.
He's having low sugar, not nosugar, because he's still having
a particular coffee thing thatwe do in the mornings that's got
(18:18):
some coconut sugar in it.
I'm not doing that, I'm justdoing oat milk.
So his really like not having adessert in front of me was
helpful and supportive to me,and that's something that we
decided together, and heactually very clearly said I'm
not doing no sugar, but I willdo low sugar and I certainly
(18:40):
won't have dessert and treats infront of you.
That's a conversation that wehad together.
So when you have somebody who isin the throes of their own
recovery and they say to you Ineed you to help me stay
accountable.
You need to ask more questionslike, well, what would that look
(19:01):
like?
What kind of words would I use?
Because we may go back into oldlooping behaviors and and old
sort of our nitpicky, judgy partof ourself that uses words and
sentences and ways that we saythings that actually trigger
them for their pain.
(19:22):
And then you have to rememberthat that's actually a boundary
that they're setting of whatthey're asking for.
And this is where it getscomplicated, right, because
you're not responsible for theirrecovery.
You're not responsible fortheir recovery.
It's their job to do theirrecovery.
It's not your job to do theirrecovery.
It's their job to do theirrecovery.
(19:43):
It's not your job to do theirrecovery.
It's their job to do theirrecovery and it's your job to do
your recovery.
So if somebody actually says,yeah, I need you to hold me
accountable and I need you to,you know, make sure all these
things are in play and andremind me when there's meetings.
And yeah, I do, I want to blowinto the thing so that I can
prove to you, so I can prove tomyself and then you're in it
(20:04):
with them.
You're actually going to loseyourself.
You're going to fall back intoyour old codependent people.
Pleaser, take care of them,make sure they're doing
everything right self, andthat's not healthy.
It's not healthy Because,ultimately, we are each
responsible for our ownwell-being, our own recovery,
(20:27):
our own mental health, but wecan be alongside each other.
We can be cheerleaders for eachother.
We don't need to hold peopleaccountable in shame.
We really need to give peoplegrace for how hard it is and
then be their best cheerleaderswhen things are going well for
them and say you're doing agreat job and give them space to
(20:50):
be able to talk about what'shappening with them underneath.
On the bonus podcast, I'm goingto air an episode with an
interview with Audrey Hope, andshe has been in the spiritual
world for a long time and nowbrings spiritual healing into
treatment center.
She she works in Malibu,california, and she very
(21:14):
straight out said if you're withsomebody who does not want to
do whatever it takes to get well, to do whatever it takes to get
well, they're not going to getwell.
You can't make them get well,and she was no question about it
.
I think that each of us has tolook at our situations with the
(21:36):
most compassion and grace andtenderness for the person
involved that you're with andthat you're looking at, whether
it's your spouse or your kids oryour brother or your sister or
your parents or your coworkersor whoever it is.
We all in some way actuallyhave addiction around us in some
way and some of us have itreally close and it's really
(21:56):
hard and it's really painful.
If you're with somebody who willdo whatever it takes to get
well, that amount of support andlove looks different than
somebody who actually doesn'twant to do whatever it takes to
get well and is still in themire of their own suffering and
(22:20):
they may have to be in it longer, they may have to hit a wall.
This part of us that is holdingthem accountable may be keeping
them from some sort of bottomthat they need some sort of
consequence, that they need somesort of peace where they really
see the harm that they'recreating from this choice that
(22:42):
they're making as their ownsoul's experience.
We see things in the way thatwe've been taught as good or bad
the judgment, and in soulrecovery we're learning that
it's not about judgment of goodor bad.
It has a compassion.
There are no wrong feelings.
There are no wrong experiences.
(23:02):
There's nothing in our shadowthat is wrong with us.
It's all information, it's allexperience for us to learn how
to be these souls and how toremember that we are one with
spirit, to remember ourwholeness, to remember that we
(23:23):
can actually heal, we canactually choose within ourselves
a different path.
So the complexity of thisquestion is there isn't any one
answer to say yes, have him blow, don't have him blow.
Yes, this is whataccountability looks like.
No, this is what control lookslike it.
(23:44):
This is what control looks like.
It has so much more nuance thanthat.
It's so much more subtle thanthat, because ultimately, we're
powerless over the other person,but we're not powerless over
ourself.
We're not powerless to lookdeeply at our own feelings.
We're not powerless to look athow it felt in our experience to
(24:07):
have somebody that you love somuch Make those kinds of choices
and how it actually reminds usof situations that we were in in
our own childhood, how werecognize how we played a part
in it, how our control has beendamaging in the relationship,
(24:28):
how we look at our way ofshowing up, how we stop pointing
the finger at them and we startlooking at ourselves.
When people truly decide thatthey will do whatever it takes
to get well, the choices thatthey make for themselves do not
need somebody else to hold themaccountable for.
(24:49):
They need somebody else towitness and recognize and see
the growth that's happening,even if it's two steps forward,
one step back.
The sugar journey for myself isactually so much bigger than
just sugar, because I've beenhaving a journey with food and
(25:09):
with my weight since I was a kid.
If I really look at it, I don'thave a food addiction in the
way that some other people havea food addiction, but I had food
insecurity when I was growingup.
When I was a little girl, wealways had food to eat, but not
much.
I was a poor hippie in NewMexico and my parents did the
(25:30):
best that they could, butsomewhere in it I have a not
enough piece that I'm stillworking on.
That is actually part of thefoundation about my whole being,
my whole codependency, my wholepeople-pleasing.
It all ties together.
So this is just one more stopon my healing journey, one more
(25:54):
opportunity for me to see myselfmore fully, and so I don't need
somebody putting the finger atme and saying, well, I hope you
want to lose weight or I hopeyou want to make different
choices.
That doesn't help in any way.
But if I have somebody who'ssaying, I love that you're
working on that, that's reallyamazing that you're able to look
underneath and see those deeperaspects of yourself.
(26:15):
It's so cool that you'rehealing those parts of yourself.
Do you want to talk about it?
I'd love to help us figure outa different way to eat.
I'm perfectly happy not havingsugar.
We can find a way to not have.
Lemonade was like the onlything to have in sodas.
When you don't drink alcohol,at a festival that we went to
this weekend, we drink watertogether.
(26:35):
Let me get you a water, honey.
There are ways to show up thatare powerful, that you have
strength.
I'm going to close up here andthen I'm going to record for the
Friday bonus podcast and seewhat more comes out of this,
because I think that I want todig into this part of us that
(26:58):
can use the steps in soulrecovery when we're really
looking and we think this isabout them and holding them
accountable when we're reallylooking at how we can deeply
heal and trust ourselves.
We can learn more aboutourselves, we can lean more into
our authentic selves, we canlet go of those old limiting
(27:21):
beliefs and patterns that wedon't even know in our
subconscious.
And I want to give you more onthe how to's, and so I am hoping
that this format of being ableto break it into two for some of
these episodes will give youmore information.
And then, on that bonus podcast, we're doing a lot of Al-Anon
(27:41):
through the eyes of soulrecovery, a lot of really great
episodes that are on readingright out of books and Alan on
and then talking about them, howyou can use your soul recovery
to use those.
I've got great interviews.
I'm lessening the interviews sothat I can have more really
profound interviews that willreally touch you, and then I'm
(28:02):
also still talking a little bitmore about spirituality and some
of the things that have reallyaffected me.
I want that bonus podcast toreally really solidify your soul
recovery journey where you takeit a little bit deeper.
So I'm going to end here andthen I'll move on.
On Friday We'll pick you canpick it up and we're going to
get this next deep dive on thisparticular topic.
(28:23):
But I'm going to close in caseyou don't listen to that and
just say you have so much morewithin yourself that you know
the intuition that you know,because, in a way, if you're
questioning, saying, is this agood idea to do this, you're
actually standing in yourawakeness that says, ah, this
(28:45):
might be control, and that'sincredible If you really think
about the awareness that that is.
That is movement forward inyour soul, recovery.
That means that you are wakingup and being able to see things
from a new perception.
Thank you so much for being partof this amazing community.
Thank you for supporting me inall the ways that you do, by
(29:07):
either subscribing on the bonuspodcast, by being a coaching
client, by coming to a retreat.
There's even donations that youcan make if you just want to
support the podcast.
I am so honored and gratefuland I want to just give you one
more little hint.
That is, there is a 50% offcode for the modules on the
(29:30):
website to work the steps onyour own.
50% off every module that I'mgoing to leave up in the show
notes because I want you to dothese steps and if you can't do
them personally with me, I hopethat you'll do the modules and
almost done with getting stepfive up.
So I've got one, two, three,four available and ready to go.
You have 90 days to work thatstep.
(29:51):
You can run right through it,you can take your time on it,
you can come back and revisit it.
These steps are so powerful andjust truly stepping into what
you know already.
But you're remembering comesfrom doing this deep work and it
means so much to me that you'rehere doing this work together,
(30:13):
because together we can do thework that will recover your soul
.
Until next time, namaste, thankyou for listening and I hope
that that helps support yoursoul recovery process.
Just a reminder that everyFriday is the Recover your Soul
bonus podcast.
This podcast is for Patreonmembers and Apple podcast
(30:33):
subscribers, and not only do youget an incredible interview or
book study that comes with beingpart of that community, but
your subscribing helps supportthis podcast and the Recover
your Soul community.
If you want to listen to thosebonus episodes but can't
subscribe right now, do knowthat you can be a free Patreon
member and have access forlimited time to new episodes.
(30:56):
Visit the websiteRecoverYourSoulnet or check out
the show links below for couponsand information for upcoming
events.
I thank you for sharing thispodcast with your friends and
family.
I thank you for giving it fivestars, and the reviews that are
left bring tears to my eyes.
I am honored to be part of yourlife.
Together we can do the workthat will recover your soul.
Today's episode was in reflection to one
of the comments made by acommunity member, and the
question was can you holdsomeone accountable and not be
in control?
And I think this is reallyimportant from our soul recovery
perspective.
How do we help support thepeople in our lives who are
trying to maybe get sober ortrying to do better in their
lives without being in controland losing ourselves and falling
(00:23):
back into codependence?
I'm also conducting anexperiment for this episode,
which is that you will have themain episode here on Monday and
then I'm going to do a deeperfollow-up dive using the
nine-step soul recovery processon the bonus podcast on Friday.
You can listen to that for freeon Patreon or support the show
by becoming an Apple Podcastsubscriber or Patreon member.
(00:44):
Enjoy the episode.
Welcome to the Recover your Soulpodcast a spiritual path to a
happy and healthy life.
My name is Rev Rachel Harrison.
I started Recover your Soulafter having profound changes in
my life from my recovery ofalcoholism, codependency and
control addiction.
I was guided to share the toolsand principles of spirituality
(01:08):
and soul recovery to help otherstransform their lives as mine
was transformed.
For us to overcome externalcircumstances, we need to turn
the attention to ourselves,focusing on our inner change and
healing.
Positive results in our liveswill follow.
Welcome to the Recovery SoulPodcast and community.
(01:30):
I'm Rev Rachel and I'm just sohonored to be here with you
today.
We are walking together on thisspiritual path to a happy and
healthy life.
We are learning how to take ourpower back.
We are learning that we can beokay when the people in the
world around us are prettycomplicated, because it is
complicated and our lives arecomplicated and if you're here,
(01:52):
you might be in a complicatedand difficult and potentially
painful situation in your lifeas well.
And this soul recovery processis giving us tools.
The nine steps soul recoveryprocess is giving us tools on
how to manage the stuff that'son the outside, by turning the
attention to ourselves, doingour own inner spiritual work,
(02:13):
really recognizing what's goingon with us, because everything
is an opportunity for our soulto learn and grow and expand.
This is a spiritual path.
This is our own awakening.
And one of the things that wetalk about a lot is addiction,
because that's sort of how thiswas formed for me.
I'm a recovered alcoholic.
(02:34):
More than that, I'm a recoveredcodependent.
My husband was an alcoholic.
My kids are still dealing withaddiction.
They grew up in an alcoholichome.
They did what they learned,they did potentially what was in
their genes and that wholeprocess of learning how to
handle a household and a systemthat ran off of addiction and
(02:57):
heal myself, first and foremost.
And it has transformed andchanged our family dynamics.
Not that my kids aren't sober,because they certainly are not.
Not that my husband's sober,because, as you know my story,
I've been sober seven and a halfyears.
He just came around to solidsobriety a year and a half ago.
And what I wanted to talk abouttoday is this concept around
(03:22):
control Control versusaccountability.
How do you hold somebodyaccountable without being in
control if they are on a path ofwanting to make change in their
life?
Maybe it's recovery, maybe it'sdoing better in their physical
fitness or in their health or intheir mental well-being,
whatever it is and you are withsomebody and you want to be
(03:45):
helpful in helping them to beaccountable.
And how do you not control?
And this came because I got acomment and I wish I could
remember where the comment was.
I can receive comments onsocial media, from different
posts, or on YouTube, fromvideos or on Spotify, and
sometimes people email me.
So I love, love, love when yougive comments, even on the
(04:07):
Patreon page.
I love that you give commentsbecause I want to know what
you're thinking, I want to knowwhat's going on for you and a
lot of times it helps me to beable to respond on the soul
recovery journey.
And her comment was how do youhold somebody accountable when
they are on their own recoveryjourney?
(04:28):
And for her, it's alcohol withher spouse.
Thing that she mentioned in thecomment was is it okay for me
to have him blow in the alcoholmeter when he's supposed to be
being sober?
He has a car that he can'tdrive unless he uses the
whatever that I'm not evenremembering what it's called
(04:48):
where you have to blow into itto drive.
But can I also make him blow athome to prove to me that he's
sober?
And I thought this was such agreat question because we have
this dance betweenaccountability and what is that
when it's in control.
So we're going to talk aboutthat from a soul recovery
(05:10):
perspective and I'm going to dosomething today.
That has been an experiment,because many of you know that I
have a bonus podcast everyFriday.
I started this a couple yearsago.
It is a incredible deeper diveinto the soul recovery journey,
and I've been trying to figureout how to utilize this platform
(05:30):
to really benefit the people inthis community to the most, and
I had been kind of toying withthe idea of rebranding it into
more of a spiritual space wherewe could take a deeper dive into
the spiritual space.
And I'm leaning away from thatand going to do that in another
space of the Awaken.
Your Soul is going to probablyjust be a YouTube channel, but I
(05:52):
really want to help you in thesoul recovery and the soul
recovery process and, especiallyas I'm working on the books,
that it's clear to me how manyof you are right here in this
deep place in your life whereyou've got somebody who says
they're going to be sober, butthey're not.
They're making differentchoices.
So how do we use soul recovery?
(06:13):
So I'm going to do anexperiment today I'm going to do
the normal podcast and thenthis Friday on the bonus podcast
, I'm going to dig into it evendeeper.
I'm going to take this conceptand we're going to work on it
from the nine step soul recoveryprocess.
I'm going to give you a littlebit more in depth what you would
do to process through, becauseI can't get to that depth of
(06:38):
description in these podcasts.
It just would.
It's too much, it takes toomuch time and I get I get a
little fuzzy about how to giveyou the how-to information.
So we're going to do anexperiment.
So on Friday, on the bonuspodcast, which you can listen to
as an Apple podcast subscriberor a Patreon member, and on
Patreon you can listen for thefirst week for free, so you
(07:01):
don't even have to pay.
On Apple it's only $3.99 amonth, and on Patreon you can
decide whether you want to be a$5, $15 or $25 a month
subscriber, depending on how youwant to support me.
So I really want you to have itfor free.
So go get it for free on Friday, okay.
So just so you know this is anexperiment.
We're going to see how it goes.
In soul recovery, we arelearning that we are powerless
(07:24):
over every single thing outsideof ourselves.
This is step number two in soulrecovery.
It is a profound change whenyou start to realize that, no
matter how loving you are, nomatter how good intentioned you
are, no matter how much you knowfor a fact that if this person
(07:44):
would make these other changesin their lives.
They would make these decisionsin their lives, that they would
benefit that it learning thatit is not our job to force or
make or fix or control somebodyelse's journey.
(08:15):
But that doesn't mean that youdon't show up from your best,
most healed, most authentic,most loving self.
But that most healed, authentic, loving self doesn't always
mean that we're there in the mixof it, with them for every step
of the way, and it may meanthat you don't end up having a
(08:39):
relationship with this person.
It may mean that you have arelationship, but you have
clarity of what lovingdetachment is.
The first part of thisconversation where she's saying
is it okay or should I I thinkit was actually should I have
him prove that he is notdrinking by blowing as a form of
(09:00):
accountability, when heactually can't drive unless he
blows clean?
What does that look like insoul recovery?
What I first and foremost wantto say is that every one of your
situations is unique anddifferent to you.
There's no way that I can sithere in this space and have an
(09:24):
idea of every person's situation.
How many years you've beentogether, how many times you've
been on this rodeo ride, whatare the conversations that you
have together?
What is your soul contractstogether?
What's your level of commitmentto your own healing?
What is their level ofcommitment to their own healing?
There's so many variables thatare so unique to each and every
(09:46):
person that the key concepts inthis that I'm going to stay
afloat on a more soul recovery,higher level, I want you to
recognize and know that you arein your own unique situation and
there's so much wisdom withinyou.
There's so much wholeness andwisdom within you to be able to
(10:07):
access what you need in thismoment to make the right
decisions for yourself.
I'm going to talk on thesurface level.
Addiction is this crazy aspectof ourself where we can say in
any moment, I mean, I can't.
(10:28):
I've said this before, I'm justgoing to say it again.
I can't tell you how many timeswhen I was in the depths of my
addiction that I told myself Iwas not going to drink.
That day, I didn't want todrink.
That day I knew I was drinkingpoison.
I knew that it was killing me.
I knew that my life was fallingapart.
I knew that the greatest thingthat I could do for myself was
(10:51):
to not participate in drinking,that it was not good for me in
any form.
And yet, whatever that iswithin you where you lose
control, is what drives you tothe liquor store, is what buys
the bottle of wine or the beers,it's what brings you home.
Liquor store is what buys thebottle of wine or the beers.
It's what brings you home, andthe whole time you're saying to
yourself I'm not going to dothis.
I looked myself in the eyes andsaid I wasn't going to do it.
(11:14):
I looked my husband in the eyesand said I wasn't going to do
it.
And there I am doing it, andthat's the part that needs some
grace.
But it isn't an excuse Becauseultimately, the incredibly
profound piece is that we havechoice and we can make a
decision at every moment.
(11:38):
Such an important piece to me iseven in those moments when I
was in this flux of fightingwith myself.
It would not have helped ifsomeone had said I need you to
prove to me that you're soberand I'm going to.
I need accountability for this.
That would have felt shamefulto me.
(11:58):
And again, I really want you torecognize that each one of your
situations is unique anddifferent, and so there's a lot
of other safety factors.
You know, are they driving kidsin cars and you know all this
stuff.
That is your unique situation.
It the likelihood for me ableto make that decision and choice
(12:26):
for myself reduces, becausethen I'm stuck with the shame
that I feel like I'm receivingfrom somebody else and I'll use
this right now for my 30 daysugar cleanse that I'm on right
now.
And if any of you are followingme on social media, you know
that I did a post that on August4th I started a 30 day of no
sugar and I invited all of youto join me, not necessarily on
sugar, but it was off of the theaddiction and the nine step
(12:49):
soul recovery podcast that I didon July 7th.
What in your life are you havingthis habitual situation in your
life where you can't or youdon't feel like it's working for
you?
I know that sugar is a triggerfor me.
I do not have a food addiction,but I will choose a sweet over
(13:11):
something savory and healthy ifI have to get something quick.
And it's hurting my hands.
It's making my arthritis insane.
You know my hands are swollen,my joints ache, I'm clearly
inflamed.
It's not good for me.
I weigh a little bit more thanI'd like to.
I don't feel as good as I'dlike to and in that same sense,
(13:33):
I know, just like when I wasdrinking the poison of alcohol,
that it's not good for me.
So I made this commitment onthe 4th of August to not have
sugar for 30 days, and then Iwill see and work a healthier
lifestyle and once I get pastthose cravings that I've been
having, I definitely just wantto move into a place where it is
(13:56):
a very minimal place in my life, instead of having as many
sweets as I've been having on aregular basis.
Are you ready to step into yoursoul recovery?
Visit the website recover yoursoulnet to learn more about the
nine step soul recovery process.
I hope that you'll join us thefirst Monday of every month for
the free soul recovery supportgroup on zoom, where we learn
(14:18):
more about soul recovery andconnect with each other.
If you'd like to work directlywith me to move through the nine
step soul recovery and connectwith each other, if you'd like
to work directly with me to movethrough the nine-step soul
recovery process, I'm here foryou, but you can also choose to
work the steps on your own, withindividual modules intended to
support you to work at your ownpace and on your own time.
And if you want even more soulrecovery, join us for the
Recover your Soul bonus podcastfor Patreon members and Apple
(14:41):
podcast subscribers, where Iinterview amazing people sharing
soul recovery tips for us andalso do spiritual book studies.
You can also find dailyinspiration on Facebook and
Instagram and join our privateFacebook community.
Visit the website for moreinformation, links and
registration for everything.
Back to the episode.
Registration for everything.
(15:18):
Back to the episode.
Pee pass.
And so we went into the tent andwe got some Italian food and we
had.
We were having some pasta andthis lady came around with this
big box of amazing lookingfreshly made desserts Cream
puffs, one of my favorite thingson the dessert tray and I just
said, thank you so much.
I'm doing a no sugar thingright now.
And she said, okay, if Richardturned to me and kind of
(15:41):
assaulted me, right, well, it'sa good thing you didn't have any
sugar, I bet you were reallytempted.
You know it's a no, no, no, no.
And it did this whole guiltthing about how I better stick
with my diet.
That would not have helped mewant to continue to make this
choice because it wasn't easy tonot take the pastry.
You know what's interesting,the accountability that I feel
(16:06):
is so strong within me right now, the choice that I'm making,
that I didn't want any of.
I really didn't need or wantany of that, but him not doing
that made it so much easier forme just to stand in it and be
really grateful.
He was like, wow, those lookdelicious.
Good job.
(16:26):
And he didn't have one either,because he's doing reduced sugar
.
I felt supported in that moment.
Good job, not.
Oh, it's a good thing that youdidn't right.
We do this thing where we thinkthat we're being helpful for the
other person but we're reallyjust shaming them.
And this is very complicatedwhen somebody is trying to quit
(16:48):
drinking and I don't want todiscount how incredibly
complicated it is because you'vehad somebody who you feel has
lied to you and I want you tohear me say that in those
moments when they're looking youin the eyes and they're saying,
I want this, these are thedecisions I'm going to make,
they feel and they want thosethings.
In those moments Addiction isnot about the substance or the
(17:11):
behavior.
Addiction is about the soul inthe emptiness, and the work that
needs to be done inside andultimately, in the end, we can't
determine whether somebodywants to heal or not on the
inside.
We can't make anybody lovethemselves.
We can't force them to takecare of themselves.
(17:32):
We can't force them to wantthat for themselves.
And so, ultimately, this conceptof accountability versus
control is very complicated,because my belief is that it is
a conversation that you havewith that person when they're in
their most right mind and youask them what would be most
(17:56):
supportive to you.
How can I support you in this?
What would be things that Icould say?
What would be things that Icould do to be helpful to you?
Now, one of the things that'shelpful is Rich is not having
sugar with me Now.
He's having low sugar, not nosugar, because he's still having
a particular coffee thing thatwe do in the mornings that's got
(18:18):
some coconut sugar in it.
I'm not doing that, I'm justdoing oat milk.
So his really like not having adessert in front of me was
helpful and supportive to me,and that's something that we
decided together, and heactually very clearly said I'm
not doing no sugar, but I willdo low sugar and I certainly
(18:40):
won't have dessert and treats infront of you.
That's a conversation that wehad together.
So when you have somebody who isin the throes of their own
recovery and they say to you Ineed you to help me stay
accountable.
You need to ask more questionslike, well, what would that look
(19:01):
like?
What kind of words would I use?
Because we may go back into oldlooping behaviors and and old
sort of our nitpicky, judgy partof ourself that uses words and
sentences and ways that we saythings that actually trigger
them for their pain.
(19:22):
And then you have to rememberthat that's actually a boundary
that they're setting of whatthey're asking for.
And this is where it getscomplicated, right, because
you're not responsible for theirrecovery.
You're not responsible fortheir recovery.
It's their job to do theirrecovery.
It's not your job to do theirrecovery.
It's their job to do theirrecovery.
(19:43):
It's not your job to do theirrecovery.
It's their job to do theirrecovery and it's your job to do
your recovery.
So if somebody actually says,yeah, I need you to hold me
accountable and I need you to,you know, make sure all these
things are in play and andremind me when there's meetings.
And yeah, I do, I want to blowinto the thing so that I can
prove to you, so I can prove tomyself and then you're in it
(20:04):
with them.
You're actually going to loseyourself.
You're going to fall back intoyour old codependent people.
Pleaser, take care of them,make sure they're doing
everything right self, andthat's not healthy.
It's not healthy Because,ultimately, we are each
responsible for our ownwell-being, our own recovery,
(20:27):
our own mental health, but wecan be alongside each other.
We can be cheerleaders for eachother.
We don't need to hold peopleaccountable in shame.
We really need to give peoplegrace for how hard it is and
then be their best cheerleaderswhen things are going well for
them and say you're doing agreat job and give them space to
(20:50):
be able to talk about what'shappening with them underneath.
On the bonus podcast, I'm goingto air an episode with an
interview with Audrey Hope, andshe has been in the spiritual
world for a long time and nowbrings spiritual healing into
treatment center.
She she works in Malibu,california, and she very
(21:14):
straight out said if you're withsomebody who does not want to
do whatever it takes to get well, to do whatever it takes to get
well, they're not going to getwell.
You can't make them get well,and she was no question about it
.
I think that each of us has tolook at our situations with the
(21:36):
most compassion and grace andtenderness for the person
involved that you're with andthat you're looking at, whether
it's your spouse or your kids oryour brother or your sister or
your parents or your coworkersor whoever it is.
We all in some way actuallyhave addiction around us in some
way and some of us have itreally close and it's really
(21:56):
hard and it's really painful.
If you're with somebody who willdo whatever it takes to get
well, that amount of support andlove looks different than
somebody who actually doesn'twant to do whatever it takes to
get well and is still in themire of their own suffering and
(22:20):
they may have to be in it longer, they may have to hit a wall.
This part of us that is holdingthem accountable may be keeping
them from some sort of bottomthat they need some sort of
consequence, that they need somesort of peace where they really
see the harm that they'recreating from this choice that
(22:42):
they're making as their ownsoul's experience.
We see things in the way thatwe've been taught as good or bad
the judgment, and in soulrecovery we're learning that
it's not about judgment of goodor bad.
It has a compassion.
There are no wrong feelings.
There are no wrong experiences.
(23:02):
There's nothing in our shadowthat is wrong with us.
It's all information, it's allexperience for us to learn how
to be these souls and how toremember that we are one with
spirit, to remember ourwholeness, to remember that we
(23:23):
can actually heal, we canactually choose within ourselves
a different path.
So the complexity of thisquestion is there isn't any one
answer to say yes, have him blow, don't have him blow.
Yes, this is whataccountability looks like.
No, this is what control lookslike it.
(23:44):
This is what control looks like.
It has so much more nuance thanthat.
It's so much more subtle thanthat, because ultimately, we're
powerless over the other person,but we're not powerless over
ourself.
We're not powerless to lookdeeply at our own feelings.
We're not powerless to look athow it felt in our experience to
(24:07):
have somebody that you love somuch Make those kinds of choices
and how it actually reminds usof situations that we were in in
our own childhood, how werecognize how we played a part
in it, how our control has beendamaging in the relationship,
(24:28):
how we look at our way ofshowing up, how we stop pointing
the finger at them and we startlooking at ourselves.
When people truly decide thatthey will do whatever it takes
to get well, the choices thatthey make for themselves do not
need somebody else to hold themaccountable for.
(24:49):
They need somebody else towitness and recognize and see
the growth that's happening,even if it's two steps forward,
one step back.
The sugar journey for myself isactually so much bigger than
just sugar, because I've beenhaving a journey with food and
(25:09):
with my weight since I was a kid.
If I really look at it, I don'thave a food addiction in the
way that some other people havea food addiction, but I had food
insecurity when I was growingup.
When I was a little girl, wealways had food to eat, but not
much.
I was a poor hippie in NewMexico and my parents did the
(25:30):
best that they could, butsomewhere in it I have a not
enough piece that I'm stillworking on.
That is actually part of thefoundation about my whole being,
my whole codependency, my wholepeople-pleasing.
It all ties together.
So this is just one more stopon my healing journey, one more
(25:54):
opportunity for me to see myselfmore fully, and so I don't need
somebody putting the finger atme and saying, well, I hope you
want to lose weight or I hopeyou want to make different
choices.
That doesn't help in any way.
But if I have somebody who'ssaying, I love that you're
working on that, that's reallyamazing that you're able to look
underneath and see those deeperaspects of yourself.
(26:15):
It's so cool that you'rehealing those parts of yourself.
Do you want to talk about it?
I'd love to help us figure outa different way to eat.
I'm perfectly happy not havingsugar.
We can find a way to not have.
Lemonade was like the onlything to have in sodas.
When you don't drink alcohol,at a festival that we went to
this weekend, we drink watertogether.
(26:35):
Let me get you a water, honey.
There are ways to show up thatare powerful, that you have
strength.
I'm going to close up here andthen I'm going to record for the
Friday bonus podcast and seewhat more comes out of this,
because I think that I want todig into this part of us that
(26:58):
can use the steps in soulrecovery when we're really
looking and we think this isabout them and holding them
accountable when we're reallylooking at how we can deeply
heal and trust ourselves.
We can learn more aboutourselves, we can lean more into
our authentic selves, we canlet go of those old limiting
(27:21):
beliefs and patterns that wedon't even know in our
subconscious.
And I want to give you more onthe how to's, and so I am hoping
that this format of being ableto break it into two for some of
these episodes will give youmore information.
And then, on that bonus podcast, we're doing a lot of Al-Anon
(27:41):
through the eyes of soulrecovery, a lot of really great
episodes that are on readingright out of books and Alan on
and then talking about them, howyou can use your soul recovery
to use those.
I've got great interviews.
I'm lessening the interviews sothat I can have more really
profound interviews that willreally touch you, and then I'm
(28:02):
also still talking a little bitmore about spirituality and some
of the things that have reallyaffected me.
I want that bonus podcast toreally really solidify your soul
recovery journey where you takeit a little bit deeper.
So I'm going to end here andthen I'll move on.
On Friday We'll pick you canpick it up and we're going to
get this next deep dive on thisparticular topic.
(28:23):
But I'm going to close in caseyou don't listen to that and
just say you have so much morewithin yourself that you know
the intuition that you know,because, in a way, if you're
questioning, saying, is this agood idea to do this, you're
actually standing in yourawakeness that says, ah, this
(28:45):
might be control, and that'sincredible If you really think
about the awareness that that is.
That is movement forward inyour soul, recovery.
That means that you are wakingup and being able to see things
from a new perception.
Thank you so much for being partof this amazing community.
Thank you for supporting me inall the ways that you do, by
(29:07):
either subscribing on the bonuspodcast, by being a coaching
client, by coming to a retreat.
There's even donations that youcan make if you just want to
support the podcast.
I am so honored and gratefuland I want to just give you one
more little hint.
That is, there is a 50% offcode for the modules on the
(29:30):
website to work the steps onyour own.
50% off every module that I'mgoing to leave up in the show
notes because I want you to dothese steps and if you can't do
them personally with me, I hopethat you'll do the modules and
almost done with getting stepfive up.
So I've got one, two, three,four available and ready to go.
You have 90 days to work thatstep.
(29:51):
You can run right through it,you can take your time on it,
you can come back and revisit it.
These steps are so powerful andjust truly stepping into what
you know already.
But you're remembering comesfrom doing this deep work and it
means so much to me that you'rehere doing this work together,
(30:13):
because together we can do thework that will recover your soul
.
Until next time, namaste, thankyou for listening and I hope
that that helps support yoursoul recovery process.
Just a reminder that everyFriday is the Recover your Soul
bonus podcast.
This podcast is for Patreonmembers and Apple podcast
(30:33):
subscribers, and not only do youget an incredible interview or
book study that comes with beingpart of that community, but
your subscribing helps supportthis podcast and the Recover
your Soul community.
If you want to listen to thosebonus episodes but can't
subscribe right now, do knowthat you can be a free Patreon
member and have access forlimited time to new episodes.
(30:56):
Visit the websiteRecoverYourSoulnet or check out
the show links below for couponsand information for upcoming
events.
I thank you for sharing thispodcast with your friends and
family.
I thank you for giving it fivestars, and the reviews that are
left bring tears to my eyes.
I am honored to be part of yourlife.
Together we can do the workthat will recover your soul.
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