Recovery Check Ins Episode 23 with Eddie

Eddie's journey isn't one you'll easily forget; it's lined with the kind of harrowing twists and inspiring turns that you might think only exist in novels. But in our latest episode, he lays out his raw, unvarnished path from the depths of addiction to the liberating heights of 1,335 days sober. His story isn't just his own; it's a reflection of too many hidden battles within our communities, and as we traverse the nuances of overcoming methamphetamine's grip, transitioning from prescription painkillers to fentanyl, and ultimately fighting for sobriety, we uncover the resilience of the human spirit and the power of hope.

Families often bear silent witness to the pain of addiction, and in this episode, we peel back the curtain on its ripple effects. From the subtle beginnings of substance abuse to the complexities of addiction that thread through family lines, we're given a front-row seat to the realities and choices that can lead one astray or, with courage and support, back to solid ground. Eddie's candid tales and my reflections on my family history illuminate the need for understanding and the role of critical support systems that can be the difference between sinking and swimming in these turbulent waters.

Our conversation takes a spiritual turn as we hear how faith and a personal connection with a higher power can be the cornerstone of recovery. Eddie shares his personal practices, including a morning ritual that anchors his day, while I contemplate the ongoing journey of self-improvement and the quest for guidance. As we touch on the subsequent steps of sobriety, the desire to help others, and the search for a sponsor to help navigate recovery's complexities, this episode becomes more than just a narrative – it's a heartfelt testament to the endless pursuit of growth and the remarkable transformations that await beyond addiction.

To watch go to https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN2HkhKyzBkNzgtrmH95HqQ or go to https://www.recoverycheckins.com for more info.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I lost everything, though, once I got hooked on
drugs, on meth yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:05):
So That'll do it.
That'll do it.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
That was my poison of choice for a long time, and
then, yeah, that'll do it,that's right.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
That'll all right.
I want to adjust yourheadphones, and you know what?
Why did that guy push?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
it all the way.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Well, that way you want this to, about a fist away
from your mouth.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Okay, a fist, okay, there we go.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
It's where you're comfortable.
You can touch it and move itaround when you're comfortable.
All right, can you hear me?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
okay, yes On the cord , Chris.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, pick up your foot there you go, there we go.
Yeah, sorry, I don't have verygood wire control.
Okay, just a second.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Well, one thing is you're fortunate you got away
from that when you did, becauseyou know I'm here.
I mean, you know, with all theNA meetings there are people, so
many people, dying fromfentanyl overdoses, buying meth.

(01:46):
Oh wow, it's crazy.
Yeah, that seems like a setupto me.
You know you're not cuttingthis product with something
entirely different.
It seems like it's a setup.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
All right, we're rolling already, so we just
basically hop right into it.
Eddie, Thanks for coming beinghere.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Appreciate it.
Thanks for inviting me.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, I do.
You know how long you've beensober Sure, how many days you
have.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I do.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
I know because I had a marine mind off yesterday as
soon as I open this app.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah yeah.
One thousand three hundredthirty five days, five hours,
thirty four minutes and thirtyone seconds.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
Nice, that's.
Did you ever think you'd getthat far?

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Absolutely not.
No, I thought that I was goingto be a lifer to the lifestyle
that I was addicted to, and Inever.
When I was in it, I didn't seeany, any light at the end of the
tunnel, didn't think I'd bewhere I'm at today, and I never
thought I would accomplish someof the things I've accomplished

(03:10):
just in the last few years.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, it's hard to see past the Whatever you're
abusing and I'm.
It's cool that you said you'readdicted to the lifestyle,
Wasn't it wasn't one particular,you know substance.
Mm, hmm.
It's a, I don't know.

(03:32):
I guess it's.
I don't know if it's the huntof it or I guess, all
encompassing everything thathappens when you are using.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yeah, yeah, and it's hard to say it's just, it's the
rush, I mean the impulsivenessof you know, you know, just
living that way, I guess, justliving that kind of lifestyle,
for sure, yeah, what was yourdrug of choice?

(04:02):
Um, my drug of choice, it very,it kind of changed over the
course of my 10 years inaddiction basically started off,
I got in a car accident in 2009.
Um, I went to the doctor.
I got prescribed pain painkillers.

(04:24):
Um, uh, and I was on Norcos forabout Six or seven years.
Um, yeah, and I mean, did Ireally need them that long?
No, was I was.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
I did.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I really was.
I really in as much pain as Iconvinced my doctor that I was
in?
No, not really.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Like I was just thinking.
You know the constipation, ohGod.
Oh God, for seven years, yeah,yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Um, it never.
I didn't struggle withconstipation, so that's a good
thing, uh, but, um, yeah, soabout seven years of of um, you
know, my drug dealer was mydoctor and uh, and he ended up.
So it, you know, started.

(05:18):
I don't know where it came from, but somehow it came up in our
conversation.
I even know what fentanyl was.
Um, I didn't.
This is probably in about 2014or 15.
So it wasn't like really beingsold on the streets like it is
now.
Yeah.
Um, but he started prescribingme these fentanyl patches and,

(05:38):
uh, I remember putting one onand was like I said you know,
I'm not even going to use this.
I mean, it didn't even reallydo anything.
So I started piling them up inmy uh, one of my cabinets at my
house and, um, for aboutprobably four or five months, I
just thought they're kind ofstacked up yeah.
Um one of my buddies came overand um he, he was uh.

(06:03):
He was selling me pills and Iwas uh, cause of course, I was
running out early and you know,I had a bi-extra one.
So I started talking aboutfentanyl and he's he's uh, he
had the he.
I started talking about thefentanyl patches that have.
He's like, oh, dude, you can,you can smoke those and you can
get high off of them.
And I was like what, really?
I was like huh, and I was likeI'm not going to do that.

(06:24):
That's, that's crazy.
You know I'm not like so andhe's like, yeah, can I have one?
I was like, yeah, sure, and Igave him one and he kind of like
showed me like what he meantand he did it and then he
started nodding off and I'm like, hey, like no, you, you know,
you can't be smoking this likethis at my house.
That's crazy.
It was like you need to go dothat somewhere else.
I'm not going to.
You know, you can't.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
Yeah, we don't allow drug use and overdose of my
house.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
So you know it was like so, um, you know, about a
week went by and I startedgetting curious and I started
wondering and I wouldn't pullthem, started pulling them out,
smoking them one by one.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
So that's crazy how he planted that bad seed.
Yeah.
That's all it took and you'retelling you drew the line.
We always talk about you.
You draw the line, you'reknocking across and then you end
up crossing it.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, exactly yeah, um, yeah, and I crossed it, man,
I and I was, I mean I wasscared too.
I mean I seen what it?
you know he, he started noddingoff the way he did right in
front of me is like I I neverdid that when I took Norco's.
It kind of gave me the energyor, you know, I don't know, felt

(07:35):
like it did anyways.
Um, so yeah, that's wherethings started getting um a
little more intense in myaddiction.
And then I wasn't just runningout of, uh, my Norco's anymore
early and buying more Norco's.
I was also running out of myfentanyl patches early.
I had to come up, I mean.
But I was really good atmanipulating my doctor, like I

(07:58):
mean, I was not in pain, so, um,the the average patches they
give you are 10 and I got theminto.
I got them to prescribe me like15 every month versus a 10.
So I had, I don't know I justthat manipulation.
It's, you know, all a part ofthat disease.
Um, that keeps us going.
Um, so I, you know, now I'mrunning out of fentanyl patches,

(08:23):
buying fentanyl patches, andthose were not cheap.
Those were probably $50 a patch, something like that.
Really.
It's expensive.
So, spending a lot of money Umeach month to feed my addiction,
um, and that kind of came to uh, I realized I came to a

(08:45):
realization that, man, I can'tafford this.
This is, this is a lot of money.
Um, I got sober.
I went to um uh an IO, anoutpatient it's about patient
treatment center here in town Umand I got sober.
I was sober for about uh sixmonths and um on uh December

(09:12):
30th 2016,.
I relapsed.
I went back to my doctor andbeen there in six months, um, I,
uh I got him to prescribe methe same amount.
You know I was sober for sixmonths, so I'm you know he gave
me 180 Norcos and 15 patches anduh went home Didn't tell my

(09:36):
wife that my ex-wife at the time, um I waited for her to go to
bed and I went out over into ourcloset and I pulled out the
patches and uh I started smokingthem and uh next thing, you
know, I'm unconscious on thebathroom floor.
Uh, I wake up and I have uh twoparamedics over me so I'd

(09:57):
overdosed.
Um, she said that I was uh, Iwas blue, I wasn't moving, I
wasn't breathing.
Um, she cracked my rib, um andwhile she was doing CPR on me,
so wow, yeah, yeah, it's alwaysbrought up in the meetings.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
how you go from, like you, wherever you pick,
whatever you stopped at, youalways pick right back off.
We're, you know, right there atthat spot or even more advanced
and you definitely seem likeyou advanced yeah.
You know, but you were also.
Your tolerance was probablywasn't there either.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Your body wasn't used to it?

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, uh, that's crazy.
Did it stop for you then?

Speaker 1 (10:47):
No, no.
So, um, the I went, went to thehospital.
My uh, my wife ended up leaving, that was so I was.
Uh, the paramedics came andthey arrived at like 1030.
Got me into the hospital.
I was Narcan three times, um,and the next, about five o'clock

(11:11):
in the morning, my ex-wife sheleft the hospital, went home.
My mom came and stayed at thehospital and eight or nine
o'clock my mom, they released me.
My mom drives me back home.
Um, I was, I was, I was, I was,I was, I was, I was, I was, I
was, I was, I was, I was, I was,I was, I was in a hospital.
Um, I remember walking throughthe front door of my house and I
shut the door.
I'm walking to my bedroom.
Um, my mom, you know, she justdropped me off.

(11:33):
So I'm walking to my bedroomand I put my hands in my pocket
and I've got a pin and a lighterin one pocket and I have foil
with fentanyl on it in the otherpocket.
So, um, I walk in, I'm walkingand I'm taking a hit at the same
time, opening the bedroom doorwith my elbow and walking into

(11:54):
my bedroom.
And my wife.
She said that she just woke upand as she heard me walk through
the door and my eyes justrolled in the back of my head
and I'm out again and CPR againwent to the.
They took me to the KMC, theytook me to 3B Yep.

(12:18):
So that time one of my friendsat the time he was a BPD officer
he came to the call because heheard where it was at.
So that time I woke up at KMCwith him standing over me saying
you can get out in three days.

(12:39):
Yeah, I kind of laugh about itnow, but I was pissed off about
it.
Yeah, and I'm thankful.
I mean, I'm very thankful thatI am where I am today and that I
lived, and I actually wasn't asthankful now as I am now for it

(13:04):
, because then I wasn't, becausemy addiction just got worse
from there moving forward.

Speaker 3 (13:11):
It kept getting worse .

Speaker 1 (13:12):
Yep kept getting worse.
For a couple months, stillbattled with my addiction with
fentanyl and Norcos, and I gotto the I.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Is your doctor, knowing all this, still
prescribing?

Speaker 1 (13:35):
He's still prescribing.
He was still yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't tell him.
I don't know if they, if youwould.

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Yeah, you would think that you're a medical.
You know if you're in thehospital, but if unless I didn't
.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
I don't know if maybe .
I they would have had to getsome kind of release probably
for me to release it.
I'm sure I probably wouldn'thave done it so, but yeah, for I
continued to battle that for afew months and then I started to
quit, or I tried to quit on myown, or I kind of did, or I was

(14:14):
sober for like three days, I wasgoing through withdrawals is
what it was, and I was at workworking nights one night and I
walk into we had a lab at theplace that I used to work at,
where I was working nights at,and there was a guy in there and
he had a line of meth lined outand he got startled because I

(14:37):
walked in and then he's like,hey, you want some?
And I mean we're, we workedtogether for a long time, so I
knew him and I don't know it.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Just, I wasn't expecting that, but you know I
was like screw it, yeah, yeah isthat your first time trying
street drugs, or did you switchover from the fentanyl patches
to street.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
So I mean I had done coke a few times here and there
at parties and stuff, so I meanI'd and I'd smoked weed a little
bit in high school and so I wasabout 18, I don't know, around
18 or 19.
I had stopped.
But as far as meth, yeah, thatwas my first time using meth.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
What was your initial ?
Was it like you know why was Imessing around with fentanyl
this whole time?
I love meth or was it just likeI don't like this meth stuff?

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Well, I was kind of going through the withdrawals
and I was trying to get off ofthe fentanyl so I thought, well,
I've had.
I've read that you know thewithdrawal.
You know you don't reallywithdraw from meth like you do
from opiates.
So I was like I'll just startdoing some meth and get through

(16:04):
these opiate withdrawals andthen you know, I'll just kick
the meth.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, that was my plan.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
The stupid disease man.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
That was my plan.
Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
Did you continue on with meth in four while?

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Three and a half years later it's about six
months later from that firstline I had.
In that first six months I hadlost my house, I lost my job
that I had for 11 and a halfyears and I was, and I lost my

(16:50):
marriage.
So yeah, Wow sounds about right, and that was within like the
first six months, and then ittook me another three years to
get my head straight enough toactually, you know, get sober.
So yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
What was the?
What was the thing that?
Well, let me go back.
I wanted to ask you what, howbad was that?
You said you were in a real badaccident.
It's a car accident.
What did you hurt?

Speaker 1 (17:21):
No, Um, my, my back.
I got T-boned.
I was a passenger and we gotT-boned by a drunk driver and I
mean my back was.
I was in pain at first, Like Iwas hurt, and I went to the
doctor because I was in pain,you know, and and during.

(17:44):
So during the accident, myspine separated because of like
the whiplash, Because of likethe whiplash, and it pinched my
cervical cord.
That goes down the or mycervical cord, right, yeah, that
goes down your spine and it,when it's there's spinal fluid
in it, when it snapped backtogether, pinched it and created

(18:06):
a bubble or something inside.
So I have a bubble inside thespinal then inside of my spinal
cord.
So, I don't know, that's a andthat's where a lot of the pain
was coming from at first.
But it kind of everything kindof went away and I stopped
feeling, you know, and I stoppedhaving pain.
I don't know when it stopped,but yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
Now, what did you ever use?
Opiates in street form?

Speaker 1 (18:41):
I did yes, so a couple of times I used heroin
and then I used.
So once I had lost everythingand I was out on the street, on
the streets using meth, I'd cameacross heroin and I tried it

(19:01):
and I came across fentanyl inthe pill form and I'd smoked
those.
So yeah, I mean they werearound, I didn't it was.
It scared me, but so I didn't.

(19:22):
I don't know, I just I did it.
I just tried it a few times,but yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
How long were you out on the street?

Speaker 1 (19:33):
About two and a half or three years.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Wow, yeah, that's a long time.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Living out of my car, out of trap houses and a little
bit of my mom's house.
But I tried not to say thatmuch because I just I felt real
guilty and I didn't want her tosee me like that and what I was
going through, yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Wow, what was, what was something?
Or when you look back at thattime that you were out in the
street, is it all just like abig blur to you?
Or were there points and timeswhere you was there because you

(20:23):
know when we ran the addictionor alcohol abuse, was it?
You know?
You think you're okay, you know, like you said, you start
crossing your own lines that youwon't do this, that you won't
do that.
Did you know that you werepretty messed up when you were
out in the street?
Or were you thinking that?
You know, this is just therewas.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Yeah, I mean, I knew that I was, I knew that I there
was, I did know that I wasmessed up, but at first, like
you know, starting off, like Ididn't think I was that bad,
yeah, and the more I would saythat I would start.

(21:07):
You know, over this period ofthree years, you know,
eventually it started clickinglike dude.
You keep saying that it's not,you're not that bad, and you
know, you can't, you know, feedyourself.
You can't, you don't have aplace to live, you can't get a
job, you can't you know youstart looking at the evidence.
Yeah, I start kind of looking atexactly yeah, what I was gonna

(21:32):
ask you, what?

Speaker 3 (21:36):
what led you to to finally, because how many times
did you overdo?

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Twice.
Yeah, there was a third timetoo.
Somewhere right around I was,and that was on fit.
That was street fentanyl that Ihad got and I don't.
I don't remember what when thathappened, but I know that it

(22:04):
happened.
I was at, yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
So was what led you to finally get clean?
Were you just tired of thestreets?
Was it?
Was there a particular?
Because for a lot of the people, a lot of times that I talk to
when they come on the podcast,is there's like a certain moment
where they get fed up butthere's a big event a lot of

(22:32):
times around that.
Was there any big event for?

Speaker 2 (22:34):
you when you reach that.
You get to that point.
You know they talk about thegift of desperation.
Yeah.
You know, when you hit that,you're like you know what?
I just?
You've been in that rut for sodamn long.
You're like I just need to, Ineed to.
Something needs to change.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
You know you're so used to because you figure out
how to survive.
You know you're hanging around,you find people and you learn
things and this is, you know,this is the life.
But you know, fortunately foryou, you had 11 and a half years
of success so at some pointthat started to kind of probably
kind of you know you're gettingthese reminders of man.

(23:16):
You know I'm not sure I likethis.
Sometimes it.
You know it takes it took me along time, years, to finally be
like.
You know this is not working.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah, so yeah, and that's it.
You know just those remindersalong the way thinking back
while I was in my addictionabout you know that you know
just some of this.
I mean I don't know that, Imean I guess like I don't know
if I was successful, but I knowthat I knew that I could be in a

(23:50):
better position than I was.
And you know you're out thereon the street and you know you
find these ways to survive.
You know these hustles.
Everybody's a hustler on thestreet.
You know, all of a sudden thenthey just they've got these
hustles and in my mind I'mthinking I was like dude, this
is doing way too much.

(24:11):
Like it's easier to go to a go,get a job and work for eight
hours than it is to go, you knowto plan out a.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
You know get all this trouble.
There's a lot of work involved.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah, there's a lot of planning, a lot of work and
I'm like, dude, this is notworth a lot of stress on me
because I wasn't really, likeyou know, I guess, raised like
that I guess in a sense.
But so I mean, yeah, just thoselittle moments.
Also, you know, I have kids, Ihave a family that you know I

(24:44):
care for and I love, and youknow, and I had all this shame
and guilt built up inside me andI didn't really know how to
deal with it.
So, you know, it's just metrying to problem solve, like,
how can I fix this?
How can I, you know, I guessyou know fix the things that
I've done?
And I came, come to therealization that I wasn't gonna

(25:09):
be able to fix anything while Iwas still using, because I had
tried that and that wasn'tworking.
So the next best thing was toget sober.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
And so how did you?
What was your first big move,your first big step to get that?

Speaker 1 (25:27):
So there was one step that I took where I just kind
of cut cold turkey and I wassober for about a week and I was
going to go.
I went to an interview, I hadan interview and that didn't

(25:47):
really work.
So right after that I had thebig first step that I really
took to get sober was to leaveCalifornia and to leave the
where I was at because it was toleave Bakersfield really and I
left to South Carolina.
My dad had just retired outthere a few years before I had

(26:12):
moved out there, and so I had aplace to go.
My dad and I I mean, we getalong on a good day.
I guess I know that he reallydidn't want me to come out there
.
Were you straight with him.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Did you tell him about?

Speaker 1 (26:27):
your circumstances.
Yeah, he did.
I don't know that he, yeah,that he really I don't know if
he wanted to really help me ornot, but I just kind of was like
I kind of I don't know.
I kind of just showed up andrather he was.
I knew he would help me if Ishowed up, but I know he wasn't

(26:48):
happy with what the situation Iwas in.
I don't think he had a lot oftrust in me that I was actually
gonna do what I was gonna say Iwas gonna do, because I have
brothers and sisters that havewent through addiction and also,
and so they, you know, myparents understand, you know

(27:09):
some of the symptoms ofaddiction the manipulation, the
lying.
I'll do it this time, you know,this time I'm for reals.
This time, you know, I'm gonnado it this time, kind of.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah and Bullshit.
Yeah yeah.
Did your parents struggle withany of that?

Speaker 1 (27:28):
No, my mom never did.
My mom's side of the familythere's.
There is no, really noaddiction that I can think of.
My dad's side I had some unclesthat didn't.
My dad didn't.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
So you didn't grow up around it at all.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Other than my brothers and sisters.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
How many brothers and sisters you have.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I've got.
I've got three sisters and abrother and a step brother.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
You would think.
Seeing other people struggleand all the crap that they go
through, you would think thatwould be.
You know a lesson Like that'snot what I'm gonna do but you
end up right in the fold.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
But you don't think that it's gonna happen to you.
It's not, it's, it's thatthat'll never happen to me.
You know type of attitude.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Well, you, know, my parents were both, you know,
addicts, so it was that thatthat disease was just laying
dormant.
It was just something, you know.
You know the the at the righttime, you know whatever it was.
And then just to come along andand spark it up whenever that

(28:48):
was.
And I went in reverse, I missedaround with some weed.
Alcohol was, even though my dadwas now alcoholic.
I never really it didn't becomemy thing, you know.
But I started with with, withmeth.
That that was my geez.

(29:11):
I've said it on this program.
I did it and I was like youknow I could, I could now I
could tell you that everythingchanged in that moment.
I was like this is justeverything I want, you know, in
a, in a a little plastic bag,you know.
And then I went to.
When I stopped, I went tothrough a residential rehab and

(29:35):
then I had four years clean andI had hurt my neck and I started
, and then a doctor prescribedme Vicanin and then it was 10
years of addiction to.
You know, all the opiates inthe circle, you know, just

(29:55):
getting more and more powerful,and then the fentanyl patches.
I used to bust my fentanyl pouchpatches and I used to rub that
shit on my gums and under mytongue.
Someone told me I could do thatand and then I went and I went
to the.
It was just got so bad, I gotdesperate, went to the methadone
clinic and I was on methadonefor a year.

(30:17):
I tapered, they tapered me, andthen I went back to meth, you
know so, as I circled back and Iwas like shit, you know so kind
of a revolving door there ofsorts.
But you know it was in myfamily and then I worry about my

(30:37):
kids, you know.
So, you know.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, do you think, though and I'm just asking this
do you think, had you not beenexposed to it via your doctor
because you got injured, thatyou would ever come across an
issue like that?

Speaker 1 (30:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
It's hard to say but a lot of what ifs, but you know
it's just those receptors, man,once the opiate hits.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
That's what it was viking in the Because he told me
oh, take a couple of them,you're a big guy.
So I took two vikin' in and itreminded me of that buzz I got
from doin' meth and it was like,oh, this is great, and it's
prescribed by a doctor.
Then I had three doctors andI've said that on this program,

(31:27):
all unbeknownst to each other,all writein' me prescriptions
all the time Before theytightened everything up.
It was terrible, you know it's,but yeah, I mean, you tell me,
you're telling us your doctor isjust like it's candy.
You just get six months andthen he hits you with 180 Norco

(31:52):
and 15 patches and says have anice day.
You're like hell.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
I mean it was the same.
It was goin' there once a monthand he would ask what's your
pain level?
And I always said nine.
You know Cause?
I'm not 10, cause I'm not?
Cryin', but I was always a nine, and it was just like I mean,
come on, I mean just like theway I said it, you know, Just
nine.
Like it's like.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
every time it's the same it's almost like the when
they brought out the medicalweed cannabis, you, you you, you
, you you you, you, you, you,you, you facetime them and you
know they you.
What do you, what do youhurtin' on this?
And I was like, well, I'm gonnasay this.
Okay, you know, it was lessthan two minutes.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
That was the bridge from opiates to meth.
For me, medical marijuana.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
So where marijuana is a gateway drug for you.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
For an addict.
I believe it is.
Yeah, you know, I just think itis.
It can be A soaking alcohol.
Yeah, you know, it's a bridgeto something.
You know, if you have anaddicts, you know the mind, you
know I mean you couldn't beaddicted to anything.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
I know people that are addicted to weed, and so
yeah, that seems to be thehardest thing to get to get off
of for a lot of people now.
Oh, I see.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
We've seen people in our meetings struggle with
coming off of marijuana.
And it's like back when I wassmoke, when I back in my you
know adolescence smoking weedand stuff you could just quit
smoking.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
Because the potency wasn't there like it is now.
It's so potent now that it's.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
You get locked into a true addiction with that
Sweating it out.
I've seen people Vomiting, youknow, from withdrawals and stuff
.
You know no appetite, losingsleep, you know.
And you've seen it, it's justterrible.
It's crazy.
Who would have ever thoughtit's right up there with and all

(33:54):
the addictive substances?

Speaker 1 (33:58):
To kind of go back to your question.
You know, if my doctor neverprescribed me that would I've,
you know, used meth, or you know, and I just I kind of had to
think back like to that.
Around that time when I startedgetting, when I started taking
it, you know I was reallyagainst meth, like like that was
like one thing, like I was likeI'm never going to do, I would

(34:18):
never, because I seen what itdid to my, my brothers and my
sister.
So you know, I had an idea ofhow bad it was and what you know
people go through wheneverthey're using it.
So I mean, there's a goodchance that maybe I would have
never experimented with meth.
You drew it online.

(34:41):
Yeah, well, I did.
But I did use meth because Iwas going through withdrawals
and I was trying to get off ofopiates you know that was my, my
trick that I was going to useto get off, but at the same time
, you know I was I don't know, Istill can't really say, but
yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
You think of the timing of that too?
You walked in on that dudedoing it.
You just right from you know,right place at the time, and
then it's like, oh sure if it'llhelp me stop feeling like shit
because I know opiateswithdrawals are awful.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, and that's what I was.
I mean, I was, you know, I wasgoing through like I would stop.
I was a couple of months period.
You know, wherever I walked inand there was and it was offered
to me was I was going like itwas.
I was a couple of months intolike I would stop and I would
make it for a few days and Iwould, you know, relapse it, I
would stop, and then, you know.

(35:34):
So it was just kind of likethis really up and down, but
yeah, it was like perfect timingthat that happened.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
I'm sorry no, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (35:43):
I was gonna say so.
Did you when you went andstayed with your father?
Did you get any type of like,any clinical support or any type
of medical help to with youraddiction, or did you just?

Speaker 1 (35:59):
I did not.
So right before I had lost myjob I'd went to two residential
treatment centers and I had leftboth of them early, two weeks
early.
And I went to another IOPprogram and I left about a month

(36:25):
and a half in and that was likeright before I lost, right
before I had lost my job.
And then so then I went on thatthree year spurt of using meth
and not having anything.
And then when I went to mydad's in South Carolina it was

(36:47):
during COVID.
There wasn't very manyresources available at that time
.
I remember trying to call likeAA and NA.
They had online stuff, but atthat time I wasn't online.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
I did AA through COVID too.
Didn't work.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Oh, I did NA on Zoom.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah, that's why I always ask you about how you do,
because you're one of the mostdedicated guys to your meetings
that you attend and you doeverything through Zoom.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yeah, 95%, maybe even more.
I go to the, we go to theoccasional.
We try to go at least twice amonth to aspire and then hit the
.
But the alumni meetings are,you know, we do check-ins, so
it's that's.

(37:50):
It still has therapeutic value,but it just it works if you
they always say it works, if youwork it, if you do work, the
program it'll work.
You know, zoom meetings alonearen't going to do anything.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yeah, just you know there's a comprehensive approach
.
Well, we discussed that theother day.
You know, meetings alonedoesn't help.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
It's gotta be comprehensive.
You gotta you know you gottadig deep.
You gotta do things like I'mnot saying for everybody, you
know you gotta get some kind ofprogram in your life that's
gonna cover everything, whateverthat is.

Speaker 3 (38:34):
Yeah at least for me.
Yeah, what was that like foryou, eddie, cause you?
You didn't go to a program outthere, did you?

Speaker 1 (38:43):
So when I was in South Carolina and I was doing,
you know, trying to find aprogram, it so happens, you know
, and I and I don't, I don't, Imean it gets religious on you
guys, right now but okay.
So before I'd got sober, I wasnot, you know, religious.

(39:04):
I didn't go to church oranything.
I'm in South Carolina at thetime.
There's the Bible Belt, theBible Belt.
Yeah, my dad was telling methat you know, you're in the
Bible, you're in the Bible Belt.
I'm like what do you know?
What does that mean?
You know, and like so, my, mygirlfriend at the time.
She went with me.
She left with me to SouthCarolina, so we both went and

(39:26):
she asked me she's like, she'slike, do you believe in God?
And I'm like I don't knowSomething kind of clicked.
You know, I noticed like I wasreally hesitant on responding to
her and that was probably worththinking.
That's where my life started tochange.
I say like I didn't do a 12step program, I did a one step

(39:52):
program that was turning my lifeover to Jesus.
That's great.
And I started going to church.
I got, and my parents have goneto church, so we started
watching their church onlinefrom South Carolina and yeah,
and that's ever since I've beensober.

(40:15):
Since I, since, within like thefirst week of being in South
Carolina, I have either attendedchurch via Zoom until we
actually found a church.
And when we after SouthCarolina, my wife she's my wife
now so my wife and I moved toNebraska and we found a church
there.
We actually flew out here and Igot baptized at my parents'

(40:39):
church down here on DiscoveryChurch in the White Lane.
So, yeah, the pastor over therePastor Jason he's.
You know.
His big thing was, like youknow, wake up in the morning and
spend five minutes through theword, five minutes in prayer and
five minutes in worship, andI've been doing that pretty much

(41:02):
every day.
That's great.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
That's good.
My mom is a one-stepper andshe's been.
She's been clean for over 30years, oh wow.
And so as her husband, mystepfather, he's the same thing
one-stepper.
He turned his life over in alittle church up in the
mountains and that was it Same.
He's got over 30 years and sosome people it works.

(41:33):
You know what I'm saying, butfor me that's where it started.
for me was a spiritual journeyand it worked, but I completely,
I lost sight of everything.
I just you know, because Iwasn't married at the time, I

(41:53):
was young.
And then I got married, andthen profession, and then kids,
and then everything else, andthen God was non-existent in my
life, and so I can't say that Iever put God first in my life
ever again until this moment,until until.

Speaker 3 (42:11):
Yeah, I think I'm a little like you in that, because
I Wanted to.
Yeah, but I grew up in aChristian household and I went
to a Christian high school andit's always been something

(42:31):
that's always been there.
But I don't know if it's, Idon't know if it's just the
connection that we have, butwithin those rooms or those
meetings that we have, they,that's where I've never felt

(42:51):
closer to God than today, evenwhen I was in church itself and
I don't know if it was.
You know, it's really justprobably me and my perspective
on things and not wanting togive up control, and now that I

(43:12):
have, you know, there is spacenow for God.
Mm-hmm.
But but yeah, you know what wasthat?
Intrigues me what you saidabout you were hesitant to tell
your girlfriend at the time,your wife now.
But that, the God question,what was it about that?

(43:36):
Was it because you just didn'tknow, because it doesn't sound
like you had other than yourparents kind of going?
You really didn't have any ideawas it?

Speaker 1 (43:46):
I just didn't.
I didn't really have any beliefin God.
I was very.
I just I didn't believe in God.
And I think that when she askedme and I hesitated, and I
noticed like I hesitated and Iwas, I started questioning, like
I realized I was actually I forsome reason I felt like afraid

(44:11):
to say that I didn't believe inGod.
When she asked me and and itjust kind of I never had been
afraid to have that conversationon why I didn't believe,
because I would have all thesegreat reasons why God didn't
exist.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
So you were very against.
So you had an idea of God whichwas there was no God.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
But it yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Well, that makes sense, because now you're you
know, but again the timing wasperfect.
The person you love justhappens to be she's asking you a
loving question.
You know what I'm saying.
She's like do you believe inGod?
And you're like it's a greatquestion.
And for you to sit there andyou know you're like she planted

(44:57):
some, there's some, there'ssome good seed there.
She threw that in there.
You know, it was a simplequestion, that's it.
You know, and you know it's oneof the.
It's one of the steps.
We came to believe that a powergreater than ourselves
ourselves could restore us tosanity.
You know it's not aninstantaneous thing.

(45:17):
You know it's gotta.
It's gotta be the soil.
You know the old, all the.
You know the, the symbolism andstuff.
Yeah, some seed was thrown onsome some good soil there,
because you were at this point.
I think you were so desperate.
You're just like.
You know I need something.
You know, and that was yeah,that was that.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
desperation is a requirement.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Yeah, I also think that, coming through my like I
thinking back, like there wasalso like that realization, like
that I was putting, that I hadput drugs, I was putting meth so
far above everything else in mylife that I was actually like

(46:02):
worshiping, you know, meth likea God, like you know.
So it was like that had so muchcontrol over me.
There has to be something elsethat can counteract that.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
Yeah, I, and I think that's where the room for me
Cape and was, because I realizedthat that alcohol was my God
Definitely was.
I thought about it.
I couldn't, you know I, Iworshiped alcohol the way that
God wanted me to worship him.

(46:33):
You know the it was my firstthought.
It was okay, where am I gonnaget some more at?
Where?
How am I gonna get the money toget it?
You know, that's the type ofeffort.
That's why, when, when I, whenpeople talk about excuses, you

(46:55):
know, in groups and stuff likethat, about, you know, not
making meetings or not, you knownot not putting their best foot
, not putting that full effortinto it, I mean, you did it for
for your drug of choice, whywould you not give yourself the
chance to?
You know that that wassomething, that that was an

(47:16):
eye-opening moment for me waslike man, I gotta do recovery.
The way that I, the way that Idrank, you know, and that was
all the time, didn't matter if Iwas sick, didn't matter if my
kids were sick, didn't matter ifI had to, you know, take my
kids somewhere.
It, I mean it didn't matter.

(47:37):
So that's the type of effortthat I need to put forward.
Maybe not for everybody, butthat I have to put forward in in
being, in recovery, you know,and having that connection, that
, that conscious, intentionalconnection with God, you know,

(48:02):
not just you know, becausesomething that's always stuck
with me, you know.
I heard somebody say this awhile back and it was.
It was never like it was thattime that it was hard for you to
explain that if you believed inGod or not.
For me it's never been hard,it's always been yeah, I believe

(48:24):
in God.
So, you know, it was all I wasalways.
That was never an issue for me.
You know, I could be drunk andtell you yeah, you know, I love
God, you know.
But somebody had said, I hearda pastor say one time he says
you know, even the devilbelieves in God, you know, so

(48:47):
there's nothing without thebelief is not, is I don't want
to say irrelevant, but it kindof is.
It's your effort to choose himas a God and to worship him the

(49:08):
way.
You know, I worshiped alcohol,you know.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
And to continuously build that relationship with him
.
Right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Yeah, that's it.
It's an active, evolving, it'snot stagnant, it's a you do,
your, your, your praise andprayer, and you said it at the
meeting.
The last meeting I attendedwith y'all it was.
You said what you do in yourquiet time, in your private time
, before, yeah, anybody gets tosee your door, whatever that's.

(49:41):
That's what it counts, you know, and that's when I do it.
I'm up at five in the morningand.
I'm sending these guys messagesfive by five, thirty I'm sure I
I annoy the crap out of them.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Oh.
Blocked me no, I get it there.
I get it when I wake up but Iam I.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
Put my praise music on.
Yeah, as soon as I get to thekitchen, it's on.
Even before that, though I amas Soon as I am conscious I've
trained myself to startsurrendering, yeah honestly yeah
that is.
That is when I startsurrendering.
Good morning, Good morning.
I mean, I'm I'm taking a leakand I'm like good morning Lord.

(50:24):
Yeah you know, honestly, I'm noteven joking.
No, yeah, I feel you, and so,because I got to do that, I got
it.
That is number one, that'sthat's where it's got to be, and
then I start doing my readingsand so then I start, and then I
start, I start sharing, you know, and that's I.
This morning everybody was upnice and early and I quietly

(50:45):
excuse myself.
I was like, and they know,they're like, all right, see you
when you know, see you want,because they know that that's
that's what's working for me andthey want to keep that there,
you know so.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
What?
What does that look like foryou, eddie?
I know you say that you do that, but I know it's different for
everybody.
Like you said, you know he getsup and he's using the rational
I'm same way, I'm a showerprayer.
You know I'm a laying down onmy pillow.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
still, yeah, say when I first started doing this it's
so funny like I would do.
I would literally be likewaking up out of bed, like I
would instantly start to startto pray.
You know like and it happenedso many like, it happened for a
while.
Like I mean, just you knowwhere I was just like halfway
asleep, but like waking up and Iwas started praying, thanking

(51:34):
God, for you know everything andyou know I wouldn't.
You know you know, nothing Ihave is mine.
It's all you know.
Just like you know, giventhanks and and grace and and I
was like man, is this, is thislike, is this?
Can I do be doing it?
Because I like I would fall.
Sometimes I'd fall back tosleep.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
You know, because that looks different for you
know, you have kids, I have kids.
Yeah you have to work, I have towork.
You know it's just everybody'sgot their lives and it's not
like you Because I know that forme, when I thought about having
a connection with God, you know, my, my dad was real

(52:21):
Intentional about it.
One thing that he was, you know, is every morning he would, he
would get to breakfast becausethat's where he would do his,
his reading at every morning,and he would do it intentionally
, you know.
You know, and I always Lookdown on myself or thought, you

(52:42):
know, shameful in some way,because I didn't do it like the
way like the way he does it, orlike you, the way you see in a
movie?
You know, everybody gets up.
Yeah, you know everybody holdshand and everybody prays.
You know what does that looklike for for an everyday person?
You know that.
That that you know, because I'mnot, I'm not my dad, I can't do

(53:06):
those, I can't.
I Just don't have that thatregimented Like the way he does.
Yeah, but for me it's, you know, it's on the pillow, it's in
the shower, it's, but I think Ithink where we were, I missed
the connection.

(53:26):
It's, it's what I do now andit's it's, like you said, as
soon as you wake up.
It's from then on.
Mm-hmm.
It's from then on.
It's not Just a morning thing,yeah right, it's not just a yeah
, it's, it's a constant.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
You know, giving it up, giving it up, giving it up
it takes, it takes practice,yeah, and you got to keep
working at it.
Yeah, it's like everything else, it's like a muscle.
Yeah, you got to build it andyou build that relationship and
then, but from what I've learnedis God will meet you there, you
know.
You know, as long as you'reputting in the, the whole

(54:06):
hearted effort, you know you'regonna, you're gonna know he's
there.
You know I had a question foryou.
I'm sorry.
We, you know, you know I'm nottrying to chase anybody, that's,
you know, away from watchingthis podcast.
You know, if they're, you know,no, no, absolutely no, no, god.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
But you know, yeah, but.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
I, but I, this is what I believe and I believe it
works.
When you were out there, didyou run into any Messengers when
you were on the street?
You know, because I've I'veseen a couple people.
I was never myself In thatpredicament, but I have talked
to some people that were.

(54:49):
I talked.
I ran to a guy at a Taco Belland I, just I, I offered him
some cash.
You know a couple.
I had a couple bucks.
I was like here, he's all.
No, he's, I'm okay, and I go,you're okay.
He's like, yeah, I choose to beout here, man, he's I.
I love my life out on thestreet, you know, and he was, he
was sober and you know, Ilooked at him a little more and

(55:10):
he was, you know, he wasn't inrags or anything, he was.
You know, he was dressed okay,you know, but he was.
I Didn't.
I don't know if he was a godlyperson or not, he just had that
countenance.
You know, you look about himlike he was just that piece with
with whatever he was doing.
So, you know, I was justwondering if maybe you come
across someone out there thatwas Not doing any of the stuff

(55:33):
that was going on around you.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Not that I can.
I can but remember,particularly Not the top of my
head.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
Yeah, yeah, was there any other influence on on you
seeking out to God that you thatyou I Mean other than obviously
you're in the Bible Belt andyour girlfriend's asking the
question?
Was there anybody early on that?

Speaker 1 (56:05):
that I Know that my mom has my mom since I've been
sober.
She told me that she keeps aprayer list and that you know
she's you know, and that sheprays, that you know of course

(56:28):
I'm on there and that she's beenpraying for me for years, that
God would work a miracle andthat I would come in to believe
in them and that I Would startmaking better choices in my life
.
So when she told me that andthis was after I'd gotten saved
and and baptized, and you know,she showed me this prayer list

(56:51):
it just that kind of like.
It kind of gave me, like it,the chills kind of inside.
It was like dang like she andshe's showed me some other other
prayer lists that she's had andshe said if she's she makes,
she'll make these prayer listsevery year and Almost all the
all the prayers that she'sprayed for, these prayer lists
of you know happened to thesepeople and it's I don't know.

(57:13):
It's kind of yeah, so I hadpeople praying for me.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
I know that what's a Other than yourself?
And in, in, in your, in, your,in your.
I know we're talking aboutrecovery.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:28):
But is there anything else that you have seen happen
because of God's work?
Anything major I mean himgetting you to where you're at
now is a big is, is a big deal.
But I'm just wondering ifthere's, if you're seeing that

(57:50):
and in other areas I mean justthe, the person that I am now.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
I mean, you know, I, I'm a completely different
person today than I Was in thepast.
I mean, there's been so manydifferent things in my life that
have changed and have Fallen inplace, I guess since I've been

(58:20):
sober.
I feel like, like you know,there's a lot of miracles that
have happened in my life and I,you know, and I Just me sitting
here today is a miracle.
You know, to.
You know, some of the stuff thatI had went through I mean,
there was some there's.
You know there's a lot of stuffthat happened that I went

(58:41):
through when I was out on thestreet Hi, on meth, like that
I'm.
I still sit here and I don'teven know, like that you know
why I'm still alive.
You know, like I'm talkingabout involving guns and you
know, in just some Crazysituations that I was in, you
know, yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Definitely had it.
When?
When did you discover, or when?
When did you realize that orwhen did you hear you're calling
that that this was what youwanted to do to help people that
were in it?
You know similar circumstances.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Um, I think, when I was a year sober and I right
about a year, I had this, this,really these strong cravings.
You know, the pause kicked inand I was Right at one year

(59:44):
sober, like within a couple daysfrom my soap, my clean date,
and I I was telling my wife, ortold her, like I want to go use,
like I want to go, like I waslike on the edge, like I wanted
to get, I wanted to go look fordrugs, like I was like let's go,
like we can find it I know Ican find it and I was ready to
just throw everything that I hadaccomplished up into that point

(01:00:07):
out the window.
And, and, um, luckily, you know, my wife was like you know, you
need to calm down.
Like you need a, you need a.
You know that's not what we're,you know we're that's not a
good idea, we're not gonna dothat.
So I had found a substanceabuse counselor to go To go talk

(01:00:31):
to when I we were living inNebraska and I wouldn't sit down
and talked with him and youknow, he kind of helped me
through some stuff and and hewas a, he was a Christian guy
and and we'd sat down and talkedand he started talking about
how he became a counselor orsubstance abuse counselor and

(01:00:54):
that kind of just laid on that.
That Started setting on myheart and like and I've always
wanted to, even when I was outthere using on the streets, you
know I I had.
I Feel like I kind of came froma little bit of a different
background than a lot of thepeople not that I'm any
different or I don't think that,but just you know I've really

(01:01:17):
some of those people hadn't hadthe chance.
A Lot of people that I was outthere on the street using meth
with didn't ever have a chanceat life and I felt like they
deserved a chance at life andthey didn't.
They don't know what they're,they're missing out on.

(01:01:37):
I guess I feel like there'ssomething more that they can be
you know better for their life.
I feel like they deserve achance at happiness.
I've seen so many broken peopleand and hurt people that were
just filling in these voids withmeth and you know I wanted, I
wanted to try to help them.
You know I feel like they, youknow, maybe at least deserve a

(01:02:00):
chance.
You know, just through some ofthe conversations I had with
certain people that I had raninto.
So I always kind of had that,and then even on the street like
we can't help anybody whereyou're high you know, so Give me
to help yourself.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
It's funny, we talked about the one year when people
start approaching the one yearClean yeah, for you it's two and
I.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
I didn't have much struggle during the one year.
I didn't really Struggle did, Iknow no, but you said that you
made the comment that it alwayshappens on your and you're like
your, year two For you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
Yeah relapse.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
Yes, which just passed right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Yeah, because I'd always Put, just put the brakes
on my addiction you know,whatever the circumstances were,
so two years was always the,you know the, and always this
this part of the year.
So I remember I talked about alittle bit in that meeting.
Yeah and so when I came to twoyears, you, even my family,

(01:03:10):
they're like Two years, you know, you know what's gonna happen
yeah yeah, you know, but theyweren't.
I think they were a little morerelaxed this time around
because they knew.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
They see you work in a program.
Yeah and so, but the one yearI've never even it makes sense
now because you know one year iswhen, yeah, everything was
really very chaotic in aperson's life, probably,
whatever that was, whatever theyou know yeah, I, I almost feel

(01:03:45):
I guess it's a little bit offthe topic but I always feel a
little guilty when I'm in a what, I'm in the room, sometimes
with people that are just youknow, the first couple of months
or days or whatever, because Idon't Really feel Like I have

(01:04:07):
much too.
My life is so good.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
I, you know that I don't have.
You know, it's almost which issupposed to be that way.
It's what I'm supposed to nothave, those same issues that
they're having anymore.
You know I'm supposed to begetting figuring out how to live
a better life, but you know I,you know I almost sometimes feel

(01:04:37):
like I have nothing to say,because I, because I but you do,
I listen to you talk.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Yeah, you know you're you're, you're living your
program.
I mean you're of service,you're going to the meetings,
still you're doing all thesethings and I see you, you know,
I see you come in with your, youknow your wisdom, you know I
listen, I'm like, yeah, that'sgreat, you know you're you and

(01:05:06):
just your presence.
You know, because you've got somany, how many days do you have
now?
Anyway, 624 there you go, yeah,600, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
When the guy with day one, day one, wondering what
the hell am I doing here, looksat the guy with 624 days yeah
it's like, okay, well, maybe I'min the right spot, you know
yeah, and I look at him and Ithink, man, I'm in the right
spot.
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:05:32):
Yeah, we, yeah because the guy sitting behind
me at the last meeting had a day.
This is my first meeting day,you know.
And then, on the way I wastalking, to Terry, yeah he's
been on this program.
So I was like man.
You remember day one.
He's like, oh god, he thoughthe was gonna die.

(01:05:54):
I thought I was.
It was like you know.
So, yeah, that, and that'sthat's the reminder.
You know it's just the.
You know it's the reminder.
That's nothing, nothing'schanged.
You know, everything is stillgarbage right back in that life.

(01:06:14):
You know that's that's a nicereminder.
You know, even the guys thatare 30, 60, 90 days, all the way
up to, you know, right, 1300days, or I can't, I can't, but
this is great.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
You know, these are my examples, you know at you
know, being that you do have alot of time, what is you said?
The prayer and and themeditation and and getting in
the company of God every morningis what's is what's helped you

(01:06:48):
mm-hmm is there anything elsethat you use, or any like tools
that you use when you?
you know, I know that it's it'sprobably not happening all the
time that you're gettingcravings now, but the one that
thought does cross your mind,you know, or can you talk about

(01:07:09):
if it does and how it does.
And then what?
What do you do to to?
To turn that around yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
So you know, of course there's, you know, I
think the the most like I, theonly time I really get trip, my
cravings get triggered, but thatI can at least think of anytime
recently has been like havinglike a drug dream and kind of
waking up a little bit triggeredsome.
I don't always, you know, Idon't know, but it's not like

(01:07:41):
anything intense, it's just, youknow, just kind of like what
was that about?
yeah kind of like move on.
But I don't really get supertriggered anymore.
But I mean I, other thanbattling a lot of stress, you
know, sometimes like at my mind,tends to obsess over things or

(01:08:05):
or just, you know, run rapid.
I guess I just try to thinkpositive.
I guess I use positive selftalk a lot and I I think if I
didn't try to, if I didn't havepositive conversations with
myself all the time, I woulddefinitely start, I would maybe

(01:08:30):
get triggered more, my mindwould start going to places that
you know it shouldn't be.
I guess I don't know if thatmakes sense.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Yeah, yeah, do you see that the disease manifests
itself in other ways in yourlife?
You know, like not purely justdrug you like, you know the
self-obsession, the, the, youknow, self loathing, the self,
any of those you know?
Do you see that and identify?
Those characteristics yeahthose kids and say, oh damn,

(01:08:58):
there's the addiction um is ityummy in the defects?

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
so this is one thing you know.
So I mentioned I haven't donethe 12 steps, but I've thought
like man, it'd be nice to have asponsor because I need somebody
outside looking at me yeahcalling out my character defects
, because I, you know, we can'treally judge those on our own.
I mean, we can if we read aboutthem, learn about them.
We can and and I think that I,I think that I've learned enough

(01:09:25):
about the different, you knowdifferent types of character
defects, that I've tried tocorrect those with myself.
But I don't know, like you know, I still feel like it I would.
It would be nice to havesomebody else kind of you know
to hang out with and kind of getto know a little bit better.
That could you know, tell me,like, if you know I'm on the

(01:09:48):
right track, at least I guess.
But as far as you know myaddiction manifesting other
things, I mean, I go to school,I'm still going to college, I've
I don't know that I've I'vejust really managed to like I
have a really tight schedule Iguess between school, you know,

(01:10:11):
church work and seeing my kidsspending time with family,
studying, I don't know, Ihaven't really seen it manifest
into like gambling or you knowany other really area or

(01:10:32):
anything.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Yeah, not that I can think of stepwork would be good
because I need direction.
Yeah, and I didn't know.
I, you know, I consider myselfan educated man and stuff, and
but until I and that was our,our topic of discussion in our

(01:10:53):
meeting today was calling adefect a defect, and so it
mentioned a sponsor.
And so a sponsor, you know it's, he's unbiased, you know he's
there and he's gonna say, yeah,he's gonna be honest with you
because he's got, you know, whywouldn't he be?
And but yeah, I mean, even inthe steps it's, we ask God to

(01:11:15):
remove all these defects ofcharacter, whatever those are,
you know.
And then you know they have alot of.
You know, I'm not, I'm notpointing to any fellowship
directly, but you knowspecifically, though there are
those when you look into some ofthe fellowships or some of the

(01:11:39):
program or the 12-step programs.
They call them fellowships.
But yeah, they dissect that andI mean I mean it might be, it
might be worth looking into yeah.
I mean there's.
You know there's a millionsponsors out there and you can
find anybody that would.
You know you're not, you're not.
You know, you're not a newbieyeah, got some.

(01:12:00):
You got some clean time underyour belt and I think that any
sponsor would you'd be, you'd be, you know you'd bless them yeah
you know, just because they'dbe like, oh heck, yeah, this is.
You know I can work with this.
Yeah, you know you're not allfresh and yeah, yeah, really you
know.

(01:12:20):
Well, you know I'm a drugcounselor.
Hey, counselors needs ortherapists.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
Needs that the C therapists too.

Speaker 2 (01:12:31):
So yeah, I mean I know, but I think you know, yeah
, I would.
I would say that would probablybe a good move because, like he
was saying, you know abouttools and stuff.
You know.
That would be.
That would be great and I thinkyou'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
I think it would probably take you to another
level in recovery benefit meyeah, yeah, yeah, cuz I think
like I don't know if I know howto say this correctly, but you
know, god is the.
I've learned that if I'm notworshiping God, I'm worshiping

(01:13:07):
something else, and so we talkedabout that a little bit and God
being a center part of my life.
But having having people aroundme that can say and help me
recognize things is a I think,is a big, is a big help, and

(01:13:34):
I've I've I've only experiencedgood things down this road yeah
it's not like with drugs, whereit's, you know, maybe your first
hit and it's good and thenthat's it, you know.
Next thing, you know, you'rejust chasing and chasing and you
know you lose everything yeah,you're not losing everything,

(01:13:55):
yeah, losing everything this way, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean you, if anything.
I think that like, at least forme, you know it's, it's
definitely worth.
You know that's what I wasgonna ask you to do.
So do you have a mentor, evenin the church, or anything that?

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
so I go to talk to.
I do go to Bible studies everyMonday night.
I don't.
I don't have a mentor, but youknow, I mean I do, I'd go to
Bible studies, and that's youknow yeah, but, and I pass
through your clothes or anythingno, no, and I I other than so

(01:14:34):
like my mentorship or mymentoring that I get right now
is out of self-help books, yeah,and I kind of would like to
have you know someone that'sactually there, that sure I can
talk to you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
That can you know yeah it, yeah, I think it.
I don't, I don't think it'llhurt anything.
I think it's.
I think it's a good thing.
What?
What was life when you were akid?
How did you, how were youbrought up, how were you?

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
raised.
I was raised, I mean, had afairly good childhood.
I was born in Fresno.
My parents divorced when I wastwo.
My mom moved here toBakersfield and you know I moved
here with her and and so but Ihad, you know, I had a fairly

(01:15:37):
good childhood.
My mom was, you know, loving,caring, I had.
My stepdad has been in my lifesince I was about two or three,
I think it was three when hecame into the picture.
You know, I have a pretty goodidea of how like a family should

(01:15:57):
kind of be, I guess.
Or as far as not being toxic,my mom and my stepdad never had
alcohol in the house.
They never drank.
They were never.
I've never seen my mom drunk.
My dad he did drink and he hedid party.
You know, and that's anotherthing you know I say like, and

(01:16:20):
my parents never use drugs.
I'm gonna say my dad wasprobably an alcoholic and I just
wasn't there enough or roundhim enough to really know that,
but I'm pretty sure that he was.
He wasn't, I mean he was.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
He wasn't really in my life a lot, but he was there
and supportive whenever he couldbe, I guess did that affect you
in any way now looking back nowin retrospect, or having your
stepdad there kind of take that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
I think having my stepdad there definitely kind of
filled that, that fatherly rolethat my dad wasn't really
present for.
But I think that there's, youknow I, you know, I don't know,
yeah, I don't know, I don't asfar as I'm sure it affected me

(01:17:25):
in some way.
Yeah, I'm sure that there was,there was definitely, you know I
, I don't know, just I'm surethere was, there was stuff that
that did affect me by my parents, you know, not being together,
but what is you get to do thisall the time?

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
but I'll ask it anyways what is something you
would tell somebody who is onthe cusp, thinks they have a
problem, knows they have aproblem and wants to quit?

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
if they were on the cuffs on the fence, I mean, I
would probably sit down and askhim to you know, alright, let's
weigh the pros and cons, youknow, and try to figure out,
like what you know, you knowwhat direction they're wanting

(01:18:48):
to go in with their life.
Some people aren't ready.
You know, no matter how readyyou want them to be and you know
it's, it's, it's you can, onlyyou can't really push them.
You've gotta, you know, yougotta show them the evidence and
they can see it.
And they can either be likewell, using drugs is still more

(01:19:11):
beneficial to me right now, orusing alcohol just seems a lot
more fun than it's stuff isn'tthat bad, you know, it's not
that bad yet.
So it's kind of like it's kindof trying to show them like
where they're at in their lifeand like, hey, you know it's,
you know, probably time for youto get sober, or it is, you know

(01:19:32):
.
And at the end of the day it'skind of up to them yeah, I agree
with you, know it's.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
You know, because some people you know, like that
guy that lives on the streetthat you're talking about, you
know there's people like that.
They're okay with not havinganything they're okay and that's
not, that's not a bad thing.
But you know, I know just formyself, the the life that I have

(01:20:12):
today, and let me say that Inothing's not much has changed
in my home aspect.
So I didn't, I didn't loseeverything.
I didn't lose my wife, I didn'tlose my kids.
I was pretty damn close but Ididn't and the way I say that,

(01:20:34):
because the only thing that haschanged is me, you know, that is
my perspective, is my, and Ihad to want that to in order for
that to happen yeah you knowthe I had to dig deep and find
out why I was running to thatalcohol and drugs and that

(01:21:01):
particular lifestyle that itthat that I, you know.
I had to get fed up with it.
Your rock bottom is differentthan his rock bottom, for sure
my rock bottom sure.

Speaker 2 (01:21:14):
I heard someone say in the meeting today.
He said I came to the point inmy life when I decided to put
down the shovel and ask someonefor a ladder to get himself out
of the hole.
You know, so that's just.
It's different for everybody.
Yeah, it's, it's.
It will take a beating.

(01:21:35):
We will get our butts kickedfor a very long time if we're,
if we're allowed to, or if we,if we come back from it.

Speaker 3 (01:21:42):
Yeah, you know, if we're that lucky, yeah, we're
that lucky yeah, but we will.

Speaker 2 (01:21:47):
We will take a beating man.
We were resilient.
Addicts are resilient.

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
Oh yeah unfortunately we, I had, I had.
I had to tell you this, becausewhen you first came in the
first day or so that I saw youthere, he was your first day too
.

Speaker 1 (01:22:05):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
I Thought you were a pastor.
I was like, oh shoot, theybrought a pastor in for church.
I was like pastor Eddie.
So now, that's a kind of soWhenever I talked to my wife and
I tell her what she says withwho did it today?
And I was all pastor Eddie.

(01:22:27):
But Teddy was in here Last weekor week before.
He was our last podcast and youknow, you just never know Like
you, I would, I, I don't pictureyou in that type of situation
of, you know, being on thestreet for three years and like

(01:22:52):
Teddy, you know, he, he, youknow he talked about being
locked up, you know, and he waslocked up for three years, you
know, and he's just like it'snothing, you know.
And then he's overdosed what?
Four or five times, you know,and I just never, you know.
So it's amazing that Peoplethat have gone through so much

(01:23:15):
Like you because I remember myuncles and my aunts, when they
they were, they used heroin andthey were just a heroin addict,
they were never coming out of it.
They had already, they'veaccepted it, they've, you know,

(01:23:37):
said, okay, that's the way mylife's gonna be.
So to see guys like you, guyslike Teddy, to come out of it,
with your three overdoses, withthe living on the street, with,
you know, losing everything, tosee that it's not so much that
you came out of it, but to seethat you saw hope.

(01:23:59):
You know that you saw a Glimmerof hope, or or, and maybe that
was just that you just didn'twant to live that way anymore or
whatever, but you had seen thatalong the way and it's good to.
It's good to see guys like you,guys like Teddy to Chris, of
course, and other guys you know,girls to you know, come out of

(01:24:22):
it, because you know I've had alot of people on and now and
it's, you know, people have gonethrough some stuff.
You know, like you said,resilient because they put
themselves through a lot of towhere you know what is your hope
?
I mean you've lost everything.

(01:24:42):
You know, you, you, you, youknow for me I guess it's so hard
for me to see, because I didn'tlose everything you know that
that I think it.
I think that's why it's soamazing to me to see guys like
you.
Guys like like Teddy is becauseyou know for you to be the

(01:25:03):
position that you were in andjust still Say you know what,
I'm digging myself out of thishole.
I'm gonna stop, you know.
Don't dirt on myself.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
I've got a girl in my meeting.
I love her with all my heart.
She's one of my, my bestfriends, and she lived in a tent
.
You know she was.
She was doing heroin in thetent and she's young, she's your
age and she's beautiful.
Now she's the drug counselor.
Oh yeah.
So she's got a yeah, she's gother story and I've heard of,

(01:25:34):
I've heard, I hear them Peoplecome back.
Man, that's another part of theresilience man is, if you know,
if you, if you are determinedto get it together like that and
you and you, you know, find thehelp you need.
You know she's, you know I loveher man, you know I'll see
you're at the convention comingup in February, but she doesn't

(01:25:57):
live in town.
But yeah, it's just amazing.
You know the.
It's one of those humanconditions to survive.
You know, if you realize you'renot going to survive in your
current state of being, you knowyou find another way that works
.
If that's what yourdetermination is, you know
you're gonna gonna find a way tolive.

(01:26:18):
You know, and I can tell youright now that we always say
this you know someone that's,you know, shooting dope,
whatever that you know, whatevertheir poison is or Probably
knows, they have a problem.
You know, probably they're notgonna sit there and go.
This is, you know, they mayhave accepted it, you know, as
their problem and, like you'resaying, your family members are

(01:26:39):
like this is it?
I'm a heroin addict.
You know, this is how I'm gonnadie.
But other people, somethingtalks to the, you know Right, is
able to to break through theaddiction for a minute and say
this is there's a better way.
This is not normal for you, youknow yeah because we're not I.
Can't see him.

(01:26:59):
I can't see you being on thestreet, living out of your car,
doing the things you you told meyou did.
I can't see it, you're, you're.
You're Eddie the the counselor.
You're the counselor at theplace we go you know I would
never have known that.
You know, I can't see this guy,you know, putting, putting a

(01:27:20):
bottle before his family.
I know what he, how he loveshis family, you know.
And then the stuff I've doneand the people, yeah yeah, and
that's the thing you know.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
The disease doesn't, doesn't discriminate.
No you know, it doesn't carewho you are, how much you make.
You know no.
Where you live.
As a matter of fact, the housethat I bought when I was 21
right was right down here, offPanama and Bonavista.
Oh really yeah.
Two-story really nice houseLost it yeah.
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:53):
It takes what it takes, not so much.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you mentioned, you know you know
some someone could be slammingdope.
You know they know they have aproblem and and that's kind of
you know that's.
You know you got to kind ofunderstand the differences
between, you know, admittingthat you're a problem and
accepting it.

(01:28:15):
You know I'm meeting it, you're, you're admitting it.
You know, intellectually, youknow, yeah, I've got a problem.
So what you know, I know I havea problem, you can tell me I
have a problem.
I know I have a problem kind ofthing you know, tell anybody I
have a problem but I'm stillgonna use.
But you know, until you acceptthat you have a problem, you
know that that comes from inside.

(01:28:35):
And whenever you accept it, youyou realize that you have a
problem and that you need to dosomething about it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
So yeah, because it seems like at that point they've
just accepted this is how lifeis gonna be for me, mm-hmm.
That's why that's one of thethings, one of the issues I I
take issue.
One of the things I take issuewith is that I Wasn't working a
program for so many years andnow that I'm working a program,

(01:29:03):
it's it's like this is justgreat.
I have everything I need tosurvive and Keep this addiction
arrested, and I can't understandwhy People relapse from this
point.
You know I was a chronicrelapser but I didn't have a
program, but that was before Iknew I had a chronic disease too
.

(01:29:24):
So now that I know all these,all that, I know I have a heart.
I understand it happens, I knowwhy it happens, but and I have
people that I love dearly, someof my closest people in my
meetings that relapse.
They come back, oh, day one man, and it's like oh, you know, we
had a guy with, with 12 years,relapse, but he'll tell you what

(01:29:49):
the holes were and is.
I think I was sharing that atthat other meeting, the last
men's meeting, but it was.
He knew exactly what hisproblem was.
His priorities were not in hisprogram.
His priorities were yeah you gotother things you know sex and
women and other things were that.
You know that was his dick, hisaddiction in another form but

(01:30:13):
and it caused him to relapse.
He relapsed up here before he,you know, relapsed.
Yeah, it always happensmentally, and so you know it's
just.
You know, I don't know, yeah, Isometimes it's just me now and
I'm not being arrogant, yeah,it's not my ego, I'm not saying
oh, I'm not, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:30:33):
You're so far removed from it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
You have the knowledge now because I quoted
you directly in a meeting.
I said I Don't know what a Sometragedy in my life whether it
happened to my wife or my kidsor something terrible, you know,
financially ruined some, somecatastrophic event in my life Is
gonna drive me to do, you know,drive me backwards, to using.

(01:30:58):
I'd like to think I'm prepared.
Yeah you know, I'd like to thinkthat all this work I've been
putting into my program is gonnawould prepare me for something
Such an advantage, you know butyou don't know, until it happens
.

Speaker 3 (01:31:11):
You know, then, hopefully, just hopefully, you
have that well, the mostrecently was my, my
grandmother's death.

Speaker 2 (01:31:16):
Yeah, you know that, but the program proved itself.
Yeah, you know.
So you know.
I just Well.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
Do you have anything else you want to add?

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
No, I'm so happy we had this conversation today.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
man, you blessed me really, I really appreciate you
guys inviting me out.

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
Yeah, thank you for coming and.

Speaker 2 (01:31:39):
What about the?
The question what would youtell your younger self?

Speaker 3 (01:31:43):
Oh yeah, what would you tell your younger self?
And you don't have to go backto when you were a kid, but
maybe when life was good.
You're working at that 11 yearjob and and before drugs started
happening and the accident, andyou had your wife, did you have

(01:32:04):
kids at the time?
Mm-hmm kids and your own littlefamily.
Things were on the up.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
I would tell myself to to Go to church and start
working on building arelationship with God.

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a tough question.
I don't.
I Still don't know what I couldtell myself to get myself to
listen, listen.
Yeah, to listen Well, yeah youknow, but you know I.

(01:32:49):
I would hope that If a relapsedoes happen, that any knowledge
that I gain now Will Curb itright away.
Yeah you know.
But then, like you, you knowyeah, it was fentanyl, but still

(01:33:10):
you know, you, you, you relapseand then you overdose twice in
a matter of hours.
You know back to back, you know.
So you are lucky to be here,yeah, so All right guys.

(01:33:30):
Well, there's nothing else then.
Appreciate it.
And thanks for I really likehaving you in the groups.
Been God send To everybodythere.
You know, I think I hearnothing but good things from
Everybody who attends, andthat's with alumni and and new

(01:33:53):
people.
So I think I think you're doinga good job and we appreciate
you.
Man, Thanks for taking the timeout.
I Know it's a job, but you knowyou are you.
You can tell it's not just ajob for you, you know you.
You seem to Really try to getdown to some root causes, even

(01:34:16):
if it Takes us forever to go tobreak or whatever.
Appreciate it, we do reallyawesome.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
All right, thank you, all right I.