Breaking Free: One Woman's Journey Through Addiction and Sex Trafficking

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I don't know why I wasn't recording any of that.
You're a dick.
I am Heavenly Father.
Thank you for bringing ustogether.
Father, we ask that you comeand you sit with us.
Father, we ask that you takeeach one of us, Father, and you
give us the peace, the peace oftelling our story.
Father, sit with Rob and I aswe work through Stephanie's
story to help support her.
Father, we ask that her storyreaches a soul.

(00:21):
Not one soul can find the helpthat they need.
Father, we ask all these thingsin your name.
Amen, let's go to work.
There you go.

(00:42):
At least you pulled the micaway that time.
You didn't want me to say a badword right after a prayer, did
you?

Speaker 3 (00:49):
No, because we've got to begin, we've got to do it
right.
This time I'm getting better.
Hey, you are getting better.
You are getting better.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
What did we say?
What did Jim say?
On the last one, I only had theleast amount of fucks.
Okay, I was setting you up forthat.
I was setting you up.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
We got to give me a couple minutes here.
It was brought to our attention.
This is to the listeners.
I talked to Jim earlier thisweek and if you heard Jim's
story, of which you haven't, goback and listen His
sister-in-law, the young ladywho prayed when they were all
looking for Jim.
He was getting ready to commitsuicide and all she prayed for
was the gun to get jammed.
The gun did not work and itdidn't, and so he was asking her

(01:31):
you know how did she like thepodcast and she's very a woman
of faith and she said, jim, itwas great, but I just couldn't
get past all the.
It was hard to get past.
All the f were f bombs and I'mlike and even when I listened to
it, steph, it was I wascreating like Rob, come on.
And so Jim went back andlistened to it and he said there
was 58 F-bombs in 53 minutes.

(01:52):
I had the most, larry, jimsecond yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
I was going to say Larry.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Third.
So this is you know, and youknow the Bible says that our
language needs to be full ofgratitude, seasoned with salt,
so that we can give properanswers to those who need it.
And it was seasoned.
All right, it was seasoned.
So our vow is we need to bebetter.
We will be better.
We're not perfect by any means,but what people don't know,

(02:20):
with this young lady, jim'ssister-in-law doesn't know that
took place.
This is my recollection.
I don't even think Mary knows,because I think Mary went to the
bathroom in between and Jim hadpulled out two crisp $100 bills
, gave one to me, so crispStephanie, the ink was just
barely dry.
Jim went back and listened toall our episodes.

(02:41):
He goes, boys, I think we canbeat that one, cause we had one
that said no more F bombs, andthat was the title of the show.
Yeah, that was the title of theshow, I remember.
So he said and me and Larrynever want to, uh, you know, not
take a challenge or money.
We did it and then we talkedlater and we and is money

(03:05):
because we spent it on cocaineand booze, but it didn't go very
far because booze has gottenexpensive.
But what we vow to do becauseof being we, we recognize our
part.
The next time we see jim forputting us up to that, we're
gonna tar and feather thatmotherfucker in the streets okay
, I'm done.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
We love you, jim.
You know that was a greatepisode.
You know they got some tractionthere, but there was a lot of
there was a lot there right,yeah, there was a lot there.
Uh, no, I'm talking about thestory, right, I mean there was
over.
Jim's must got a hell of afollowing up there, because
there was over 85, I think, indenver area itself and aurora

(03:40):
had I don't know like 30 or 40listens.
It got some.
That one was the first one andI've said this many times that
mine, the very first one we hadthe most listens to.
His blew right past mine, itblew right past it.
So, and here's the other thingswe, with Mary, right With what
Mary's been doing, everybodyloves Mary.
Hey, they ought to make a moviethat called that Something

(04:03):
about, oh, something about Mary.
Hey, they ought to make a moviethat called that Something
about, oh, something about Mary.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Anyways, I don't think that's quite the same.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's a little bit Mary.
Anyways, the show, the podcast,everything is just really
starting to grow.
The Instagram, I'm so happythat she's here with us and I
appreciate it, honey, appreciateyou so much.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
It's an honor to be here.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
It's been fun.
Yeah, they um.
So we got.
We got a guest that Rob broughtto me, uh, brought to us, and
I'm so excited.
Never met you before.
You hear how he corrected thatright.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
What brought to us?

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Well, it's course, cause I'm talking because you
brought it.
Cause, that then it's us.
If I'd have brought her, I'dthat's right.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
It's all about me prick.
You know this.
Hey, that's a good word.
It's better than the F word.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
I try not to use the F word, anyways.
So, stephanie, well, hold on,let me back up You're supposed
to let her introduce herself,introduce yourself, hi, I'm
Stephanie.
A little late, isn't it?

Speaker 4 (04:56):
And I am an alcoholic addict.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Hello Stephanie.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
Hello, tell us about yourself.
First off, how do you know rob?
I met rob in the rooms.
Actually, this is a funny story.
Rob doesn't even know this.
I met rob at a book study inthe rooms when he was doing the
book study.
Um, in the rooms of aa rightthursday night yeah, sorry, and
what rob doesn't know is I wasin the process of really
struggling with my sponsor.
I had a sponsor that was I justwasn't making progress with her

(05:33):
.
We were doing a lot of errandrunning.
Yeah, I was with her one day forabout five hours and we didn't
do a single ounce of step work.
So anyways, rob, what I'mtrying to get at is I went into
the rooms and I had already gonein on my Saturday morning
meeting and I had cried to theladies and been like I don't
know what to do, I don't know,like I just want to get my step
work done.
And I went into that book studyand I remember I went and I

(05:54):
asked Christy.
I said, hey, can I have a guysponsor me, because I freaking
love the way you looked at thatbook and the way you did your
book study.
I was like this man knows hisshit right don't blow his head
up, stephanie I'm trying not to.
I'm trying not to, but I andthen I took it to the women's
meeting the following week and Iwas like can a man sponsor me?
And everybody's like, well, Imean, it's not like ideal.

(06:15):
And I'm like, okay, so but yeah.
And then, uh, yeah, I wantedyou to be my sponsor for a
little bit, but I did you got?
Lucky.
Well, no, I ended up gettingsomeone that he took through the
steps as my sponsor, so Christyokay, yeah, christy's awesome,
she's been on the show too yeah,yeah, she's awesome.
I got Christy when I totallyscored, you know, and she's
awesome, you know.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
The funny thing is is nowhere in the book does it say
sponsorship right and the first164 in the first 164, and
here's the frustrating partabout that is I know so many
women that should not be aroundmen as getting a sponsor, but
I've met many women that shouldhave a man sponsor or could,
could, right and you're one ofthem right, very, very strong
very type a was one of them.
Yeah, christy was one.

(06:56):
So they can.
They can use it and there'ssome men that could probably use
a woman as a sponsor yeah, didoh, she did yes I did not know
that jeanette's first sponsorwas a man really yeah, did not
know, 44 years ago.
You know what, and it goes backto what I've said all along
it's just who do you connectwith right now?
There's also that attractionthing that could could hurt.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
Hurt that a little bit, but I mean well, you know
the story the first woman I eversponsored, uh, she had come to
she would cut my wife.
She cut my wife's hair, but I,I had asked my sponsor at the
time.
She'd asked me she goes, shewouldn't do it, she wouldn't ask
my wife is be okay if Robsponsored me and there was kind
of a to do.
You know about all that and Ididn't.
So my wife said, listen, andyou both would land.

(07:37):
He knows why you both love mywife.
This was she says.
You know, I'm not an alcoholichoney, and if I fucking was, I
wouldn't have no woman as asponsor, because women are
nothing but catty fuck, cattybitches.
That's what she said.
That's her quote amen so so shegoes.
That woman asked you for help.
She asked me for help andyou're going to help her because
you've been given a gift.
Yeah, now I eventually had tohave help this young lady learn

(08:00):
to have healthy relationshipsand boundaries with women, and
you, you know, now she has awoman sponsor Right.

Speaker 4 (08:05):
But yeah, but in the beginning let's be honest, some
of us women are pretty messed upwith other women Like before we
get through that step work.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
For sure.
I mean, there's definitely some.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Every situation has its own.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
I think so, I mean, I've seen women like you.
You were struggling.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
You were about ready to run out of it.
Well, christy, christy was tooat a time, so she asked christy
asked me the same question.
I said well, I will sit downwith you and I know christy
sponsored who I love to deathand you're sponsoring, and I
will do the this part of it andshow you how I do it.
So, because chris, christy isexactly what that fellowship
needs, right?
Strong women strong who don'ttake shit from anybody but do
the deal.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
I haven't got to see her in a little while.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Of course I have, and Steph's going to be the same
way.
Steph will be the same way.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
Well, let's go.
Let's go and get into yourstory.
We'll talk a little bit more.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
All right, oh man, where do I even start?
I guess I'll just go back to it.
Okay, I won't take it too farback.
You grow up in houston.
I grew well we home of thehuskies, yeah, next door to
waterford.
We moved um a few times.
So my okay, well, I guess Ididn't.
Where do I begin?

(09:12):
My dad, my biological dad, wasalcoholic addict.
Um, I saw him until I was Idon't know how, exactly how old
I was.
Whenever, um one day we wentfor visitation, he got me me
like every other weekend and hewasn't there and he had gotten
really heavy, really really deepinto his addiction and
alcoholism.
So that's when, you know, Ithink he made the conscious

(09:33):
decision to leave because he wasafraid of putting me in harm's
way.
But you know, a couple of yearsdown the road, so me and my mom
moved a few times because shewas a single mom, she's working
as a correctional officer,graveyard shift and you know, so
my grandparents really steppedup, everybody kind of put a hand
in to to help, you know, get mewhere I needed to be.
Um, but we moved a few times andthen she met my dad the guy I

(09:56):
call my dad.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
So how old were you when the last time you saw your
biological dad?

Speaker 4 (10:01):
be honest, ballpark probably.
I want to say maybe five wowokay, all right I want to say,
and that's, that's even it'salmost like a dream like right,
you know it's hard to reallyeven remember.
I have very, very few memoriesof that time.
You know, a couple of them werecrappy ones.

(10:22):
A couple of them were good onesyou know, couple of them were
good ones.
It's kind of dreamy, but when Iactually start remembering my
childhood is when my dad cameinto my life, my stepdad, that
man came in and filled any bitof a void that I could have ever
possibly had.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
He adopted me.
Good for him.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah, he went through the process, adopted me.
I took his last name.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
So that's, dad.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
That's dad.
Damn right, that's dad, that'sdad, um, yeah, so, but once he
was around, you know, everythingwas great.
Even before everything wasgreat, my mom worked her ass off
to make sure everything wasfine, always, you know, um, but
he definitely filled any bit oflike void I had, um, yeah, so,
growing up we were, we were, youknow, normal.

(11:02):
We finally settled into Houston.
It was good, life was good.
I was doing good in school.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
About what grade?
About what grade?

Speaker 4 (11:13):
We settled back into Houston.
I was going into eighth grade.
Okay yeah, I had started therewhen I was young, when it was
just me and my mom.
Then I had actually moved awaybecause my parents decided to go
and buy a house and, you know,do what they needed to do, but
they ended up moving again backto Houston.
So it was like reuniting witheveryone I knew when I was in
kindergarten.
So yeah, so everything was good.

(11:38):
I had a little brother that was10 and a half years younger
than me.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
That was my little guy.
He was like me.
Okay, that was my little guy.
He was like, I mean, he was myown, like he was like a live
doll to me.
You know, I mean, and we wereat such different places in our
life, there was never thecompetition, like it was just
pure love for that kid Always,you know, no jealousy, no,
nothing like that.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Enough separation there.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
For sure.
We were at completely differentstages of our lives.
You know, Um yeah, and thingswere great.
I did well in school.
Um, I mean, I did.
I was one of those kids that,like refused to do my homework,
but I tested well enough to getby.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Yeah, fuck you people yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Yeah, didn't have to.
I could put in really minimaleffort and I still did well.
Like, I look back and I'm likeman, if only I just applied
myself.
You know the possibilities, butbut, um, yeah, so I did fine,
um, but I grew up very, um,insecure.
I don't know if it stemmed frommy dad, I really can't tell you

(12:43):
where it stemmed from.
I just remember my entire lifebeing incredibly insecure and
incredibly uncomfortable in myown skin.
Um, just never really feelinglike I fit in.
You know, um, and so like, whenI would get attention from a
guy, I would be so uncomfortablewith it because I didn't feel

(13:05):
like I deserved it.
You know that I would get likeweird about it.
I don't know.
I just had a weird, a hard timelike starting the dating
process when my friends werelike starting it, like I just
got really weird about it and Ijust was like I don't know, it
just wasn't natural to me, itwas odd, it was like I, it was
just a weird thing, thing.
I don't even know how toexplain it.

(13:25):
What did you get into athletics?
Oh, my whole life.
Okay, yeah, I played travelsoftball my entire life.
Um, that that could be part ofthe reason too, because that
takes up your whole life.
Yeah, you know, you don'treally have time to anything
travel takes yeah, I mean wewere practicing three to four
nights a weekyeah, you know, and then
tournaments every weekend and wewere traveling, so I mean, it
was, it was.
My whole life was was consumedwith sports, um, which also

(13:46):
makes it hard to make likefriends outside of your sports
crew, you know.
So at school I felt kind oflike weird, like I didn't really
have like my core group.
All these people were likehanging out outside of school
and those weren't my people, youknow.
So, yeah, so, uh, my sophomoreyear, I remember I remember

(14:07):
having this huge crush on thiskid that was at my school and
eventually he was expelled,right, he was expelled for
something to do with pills,right, so, which automatically
just made him so much moreattractive to me, right, fucking
awful, um, but yeah, so he wasexpelled, um, but somehow he got

(14:33):
my number and he had texted meone day and was like hey, want
to hang out?
And I'm like, yes, likeabsolutely.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
So you had no insecurity about that one.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
I think I was too excited.
Okay, I think I was, just so Iwas.
I again didn't feel like I likeI thought that dude would have
never even talked to me, youknow what I mean.
Like that just wasn't in my, inmy scope, you know.
And so he came and he hadreached out and I was just like
in awe of the whole thing, youknow.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
And up to this point, no drinking, no drug.
You're just a regular highschool girl.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
Regular high school girl.
This is my sophomore year.
Yeah, didn't drink, didn't hideanything from my parents.
It helps that my parents.
So a little background on myfamily.
My grandpa is retired deputysheriff, also lives in Houston,
very connected within thecommunity.
My mom worked for Houstonschool district and she was in

(15:31):
corrections and she was incorrections, so you can't get
shit past her.
And my dad worked for the cityof Houston, so like I couldn't
get away with anything, even ifI wanted to, right.
And so you know, I just didn'treally push the limits on it.
It was like I don't really feelthe need to.
And, plus, my mom and I had apretty open relationship with
each other.
You know, if I was going to godo something like go to a party

(15:52):
or something, I would have toldmy mom, because she was like she
would have rather known that mebe shady about it.
So, yeah, so I started seeingthis guy and my mom was excited
for me because she saw howexcited I was and everything you
know, and um, so we kind ofjust ignored the fact that he
had just been expelled for, like, selling pills, right, everyone

(16:13):
just kind of got over that andum, yeah, we were dating.
Um, we went steady for mysophomore, junior and and senior
year my first relationship everand we were together like
nonstop, you know.
And in that time he wasdefinitely living more on the

(16:34):
edge than I was, you know.
He would go to his friend'shouse for beer pong and he would
go, and so he would take mewith him.
So I was starting to getexposed to more like partying,
having fun, you know, just doing.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
I don't know what high school kids do you know?

Speaker 4 (16:47):
Yeah, it was just stuff that high school kids did
and it, but it was new to me andit was exciting and I don't
know, it was just being a kid Iguess.
And so once he, I helped himget through, he ended up going
to like a charter school.
I helped him graduate, cause hewould have given up up like he

(17:10):
was over it, you know, and so Ikind of helped him really stick,
stay on course.
So once he graduated, he kindof I don't know I guess he kind
of just started partying moreand more and more and I didn't
notice that, you know, thingswere getting really like he was
getting way deeper into thingsthan I was even recognizing,
cause I have no experiencerecognizing any of it.
Um, he was acting kind of weirdand I come to find out, long

(17:35):
story short, he was on pillsagain, right, Again.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Do you know, did he stop at one point?

Speaker 4 (17:40):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
Yeah, he did, he had for sure.
Well, I mean yeah.
I think so.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Right.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
I think so.
Um, I got really close with hisfamily and his sister and his
parents and they were both.
They were all just so happy.
I was, you know, there andeverything, and they were like
we see such a huge difference inhim, like he's amazing.
So I think.
So I think he did stop for somesome time, but I think once all
of his responsibilities weredone and he had done, he had
graduated, it just kind of waslike well, I can be me again,

(18:11):
you know so.
Um, yeah, so he started to kindof really withdraw from me and
I didn't understand why and Iwas kind of just like what are
you doing?

Speaker 3 (18:21):
why are you was this?
No, were you, was he.
Is he older than you?
Were you out of?
Was he?
He was out of school I wasstill in school.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yeah, okay, he was two years.
No, he was a year ahead of me soyou're a senior and he's out of
school yeah, I was a senior, hewas out of school, um, and he
was like really withdrawing fromme like just and just, even
when we were together, not thesame person, and I was like what
is going is going on, you know,and um, yeah, so one day I went

(18:49):
I started to try to likeincorporate myself with his
group more, cause I'm thinkinglike maybe his friends don't
like me, you know, I'm trying tothink of what's wrong with me.
It was the base of everything,right Right.
Something has to be wrong withme because he doesn't want to be
around me anymore.
What can I change?
You know was kind of where Iwent with it and so I started
trying to incorporate myselfwith, like his crew more and

(19:10):
hang out with them and you know,um just started being in
situations where I was like I'mnot totally comfortable here.
But you know, like I I lovethis guy and obviously if this
is who he wants to hang out with, then I'm here for you know,
and I remember one day we wentover to one of his friend's
house and we were sitting in theliving room and the guy so my

(19:33):
boyfriend at the time had goneinto the bathroom to use the
restroom.
He was in there for a littlewhile right, I'm pretty sure he
wasn't just using the restroomand the guy that I'm sitting
with pulls out a piece of foilwith a pill on it and hits it
right in front of me Like it wasno big deal, like did you know
what he was doing?
I mean, I could see it.
I could see, I saw what he was.
You know he was.
It was like it was just did youknow what it was.

(19:55):
Yeah, I could tell what it was.
I could tell what it was.
Yeah, it was a little blue pill.
I could tell what it was.
It was just very odd.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
I was like what is he ?

Speaker 4 (20:03):
doing.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
No, no, hold on.
Does that work?
I don't know.
Does that work?
How the fuck would I know?
We got to try that.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
God damn it.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Rob, we got to take it aside.
If I try that, do I lose mysobriety?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Yes, If it's Viagra, I'm going to tell you yes.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
Motherfucker.
All right, let's go back.
Okay, never mind, sorry.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
So he pulls it out and he starts smoking a pill
right in front of me Like it wasjust a normal thing to do, and
I remember in that momentgetting very uncomfortable.
And then I had that momentwhere I was like, well, I have
one of two options here I canleave and push the guy that I
love further away because nowI've made him feel uncomfortable
with, like his friend, you know, or I can cause he went to hand

(20:45):
it to me right after he did it,for you to take a hit, for me
to take a hit, and I was likeyou know, and I was just like,
well, I got one of two optionsand unfortunately, I took the
latter of the two and I took itand I hit it, you know.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Um and so okay what I mean.
So you are absolutely spotlessat this point.
What did it feel like?
That's your first high?
No, but she'd had alcohol.

Speaker 4 (21:10):
I had had alcohol.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
This is an alcohol.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
Okay, but this is different.
This is opioids.

Speaker 3 (21:14):
I've never done that because I've done a few drugs,
but I've never done any of that.
What does that feel like?
What is the attraction to that?

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Because for me I always thought it just makes
people, you know, kind of sitthere and count their heartbeats
, which I like to go.
It was you know?
Yeah, have you ever?
I'm sure you guys have seen themovies where you see like the
heroin addicts shoot it andthey're immediately just like
yeah, in ecstasy just youreuphoria immediate right um, and
that was it okay that was it.
It was a good feeling, wow right, I'm not gonna sit here.
And that was it.
It was a good feeling.
Wow Right, I'm not going to sithere and say it wasn't, it was
a good.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
If it wasn't good, people wouldn't do it.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
Right or be addictive .
It was a good feeling.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
Don't try it at home, gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, don't try this at home.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Don't ever try it at home.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Even if it is Viag.
So I uh, yeah, it felt really.
It was like tingles all over.
It started in like my, my youknow hands and feet, and it was
just I don't know.
It was just this lifted feeling.
It was crazy, um.
But then it was immediatelyfollowed by what the hell did I
just do?
it was guilt, immediate guilt.
I was like what the fuck?
Like I?
I just was just so disappointedin myself the minute I had done

(22:28):
it, um, and so my boyfriend hadwalked out of the bathroom.
At that point he had seen whathad happened, he could tell what
was going on, um, and hebasically was like, hey, let's
go.
And I was like okay.
So we got in the car and wedrove all the way home.
We didn't speak a word to oneanother, not a word.
He dropped me off.
I went inside and then I thinkthat our goal was to just

(22:48):
pretend that it hadn't everhappened.
Right, like that was my goal.
I think that was his goal.
We're just going to forget itever happened.
But the thing was we hadalready right.
At that exact moment, wecrossed a line that you can't go
back on you know I suddenly wasless judgmental of other
people's choices.
Right, I was like I don't knowhow to explain it.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
I know exactly.
You lowered your bar I loweredmy bar completely.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Everything was okay after that absolutely,
absolutely.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
And so I um, and the other thing that came from it is
I woke up the next day and Iwas fine.
I wasn't like needing anotherpill, like I woke up and I was
totally fine, I was living mynormal life.
I wasn't like, oh God, I got todo that again.
You know, it was like justanother day which, looking back,

(23:39):
I wish that it would have beenconsequences consequences for it
.
You know, because it was likewell that you know I mean shit.
I thought addiction was like youjust had a problem right away
and well the next day you'reunder the bridge and right right
immediately yeah, no, I meanyeah, or I thought, at the very
least I would wake up withserious cravings and I had none

(24:01):
like I, I just like take it orleave it, you know.
So we I mean to make a longstory short we basically started
once.
He knew I had done it and Iknew I had done it.
He became more willing to, like, take me around different
people right, because it waslike I wasn't going to sit there
.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Relationship got better.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
Right, and so we were finally improving, we were
hanging out more, we were youknow, all these things that I
was hoping for All the while Iam socially or occasionally
right, using drugs right.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
So these any drugs, or you're back to pills Oxys,
oxys, heroin.

Speaker 4 (24:37):
Oxys, basically heroin right, yeah.
So Oxys, um, so oxys, um, andso I end up I'm still noticing
him in the same patterns again.
Right, we were good for alittle bit, and then I started
noticing the same patterns wherehe's drifting and I'm like what
the fuck is going?

Speaker 2 (24:55):
on.
You know like what what isgoing on.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
And I was devastated again, devastated um.
So I had, at this point, I hadgraduated- Scholarship to
softball.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
Yeah, softball To Sac State.

Speaker 4 (25:09):
To Sac State.
I went out there, I was livingin the dorms, everything was
going great.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
What position did you play?

Speaker 4 (25:15):
First, primarily first, and I wasn't that great
at offense, but I was a damngood defensive player Okay.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
So what did you bat in the lineup?

Speaker 4 (25:25):
Usually about six or seven.
Okay, I wasn't like there.
I definitely wasn't the fourthhitter, I definitely wasn't the
runner up because I wasn't thelead off, because I wasn't fast,
you know.
I mean I got the ball in playbut I was like average.
But my defense kicked ass and Iwas a leader so that got me you
know far.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
I can imagine.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
For sure yeah, so I um had gone off to school and
did he stay in houston?
he was in turlock.
Okay, yeah, he was in turlockthe whole time.
So he had stayed in turlock.
He was living with hisgrandparents, um, his parents
had moved to idaho, right, andhe decided he wanted to stay
because we were dating andeverything.

(26:04):
So he moved in with hisgrandparents, um, so whenever I
went off to school, he was veryupset about it because, oh, I
stayed here for you, right,right.
He got mad at me rather thanbeing happy for me and I was
like this is weird.
You know, that was kind of likemy first sign of like this guy
doesn't really want what's bestfor me, you know like why are
you mad at me for going toschool?

(26:24):
you know?
So I um, yeah, I basically justwent off to school and we were
drifting apart, but I wasmeeting new people and I was
gaining new friendships and Iwas kind of getting to know
myself better well, you'regrowing, getting older, maturing
a little bit yeah, and so Iwasn't as devastated, um, about
the distancing, and I think itmade it easier having, like, a

(26:46):
geographical move like you knowit didn't.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
For that instance I could see how it would be.
She wasn't completely addictedlike where my daughter's at
emily.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
She got, you got school work, you've got it was
very busy.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
You're busy.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
It was very a lot of time very busy the separation
from him was probably a goodthing and it was.

Speaker 4 (27:04):
It was because it when we were living in next door
towns and we still felt soseparate, I was just living in,
like just so depressed, becauseI'm like why doesn't he want to
be around me anymore, you know.
So once I moved it was like okay, well, if he doesn't want to be
around me, it's because I livetoo far right it's kind of my
new excuse, right, and so I waslike so I'm making new friends,

(27:25):
we're partying, we're, you know,going out, we're doing what
college girl dorm people doright, which is pillow fights.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Well yeah, right, and , but not searching for, not
searching for drugs no,absolutely not so.

Speaker 4 (27:38):
You were even remotely addicted.
No, not even close no I had umnot addicted.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
But you were drinking , so I addicted, but you were
drinking so I was drinking, butit was.

Speaker 4 (27:44):
I mean, it was to be honest with you, though I was
most often no, but I was mostoften Get it out of your head,
rob.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
God damn it.
I see where your perverted mindis going over there.
Stop it.
I ignored you the first time,jesus, sorry.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
So I was most often the DD, because I wasn't even
really a fan of, I mean,drinking was okay, but I was
like I have as much fun sober,right, Like I'm one of those
people that'll have fun eitherway.
So I um, yeah, I kind of just,you know, was doing my own thing
with my own people, but hewould come out and he would
visit me, you know, occasionallyand at this point I'm hiding it
from my parents because myparents had recognized he was
doing something not right, youknow, and so my mom was very

(28:27):
much so like you need to kind oflike back off from this dude,
Like something, something's notright here.
Steph, you know, tried to warnme.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
Well, he had to be 21 at this time.
21, somewhere around there,yeah.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
I think he was.
Well, I was only 17 when Igraduated.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (28:45):
So I was 17 through my entire, which is another
reason why I was often dd,because I didn't have like the
fake idea, I couldn't get intothe same clubs as everybody else
.
So, like I was just, you know, Iwas so young my whole year, you
know.
And so I um, yeah, I just was,I don't know.
My mom had warned me I washiding it from them.
And then I would remember oneday I was at my dorm and I got a
call from a jail and I was waslike like completely just not

(29:08):
expecting that.
Right, it was a collect call.
Someone was trying to get ahold of me.
So I hang up, I call my mom.
I think it's my biological dad.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
Right, okay.

Speaker 4 (29:15):
Because I'm like who the hell else in my life is
going to go to jail?
Right, it wasn't, it was, itwas my boyfriend at the time.
So my mom then finds out thathe's in jail.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
So now she is like cut that tie like get away from
that dude.

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Yeah, she's like get away from that dude right now,
right, and so I kind of just letit drift apart, you know, I
kind of just let it take its owncourse, because I felt him
pulling away.
I kind of was getting to beokay with that, you know.
So I just kind of let it be.
But all the while I'm makingthese new friends and these new
friends are experimental andcrazy I tried, you know.

(29:50):
I remember I went to a partyone time they had cocaine.
Tried it Wasn't really a fanDrinking occasionally.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
You missed that opportunity right, no way.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
I'm not a fan of cocaine either.
Fuck that shit.
Sorry about the F-bomb, Mary,but I mean methamphetamines is
my and Jack Daniels Two of myfavorite things we're getting
there.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
Okay so, yeah so tried coke wasn't I mean, it was
whatever.
But again, woke up, noconsequences.
I woke up, went to class thenext day.
Everything was fine.
No sort of like cravings, no,nothing.
I wish to God I would have hadcravings because I probably
would have been like that'sscary, but I didn't.
So, yeah.
So I tried stuff here and thereand yeah.

(30:36):
So then I was playing softball.
I blew out my knee, um, and Ihad tapping your right leg, such
your right knee yeah, I wassliding, I was sliding into home
and the catcher like came downon it and I, uh, blew my acl
completely complete tear to myacl your freshman year, yeah,
your first season yeah, my firstsemester, I didn't even get

(30:57):
through two semesters, um, so,yeah, so I blew out my knee.
I had already applied forhousing, but it was off campus
and I was just going to, like,walk because I had a truck but
it was expensive, I don't know.
It was just.
It just wasn't working out theway that I needed it to.
So I was like you know what?
I'm just going to go back, I'mgoing to go to JC for a couple

(31:18):
of years.
We're going to do that route.
I'll come back, you know, onceI have my aa, or whatever, um,
so that's what I did.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
I went back to my parents house, went to mjc,
that's associate's degree, notalcohol, synonymous.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Thank you for clarifying that, rob yes, I went
back to my parents house didyou lose your scholarship
because of your knee?
Yeah, son of a bitch, yeah yeah, once you're no use, they just
kind of sign you off.
You know which is crazy how'dthat make you feel?
Just, I knew it was coming.
Okay, I knew it was coming, Itried to play through it.

(31:52):
I tried to play through it for along time, but I mean, I just,
it just is what it is, you knowit's weak you know, going into
it, that what you're signing upfor, though I knew the minute I
hurt my knee I felt somethingreally bad happen and I tried to
pretend like it wasn't as badas it was because I knew what
was coming.
You know which sucks that.
That's how it is, but that'sjust how it is.
You know my academics.

(32:14):
Like I said, they were OK.
I got by on academics but Icertainly wasn't getting any
sort of help academically, youknow.
Yes, I went back to MJC, gotsigned up at MJC, started
playing ball again after I hadmy surgery and everything and
started playing ball again, wentto, was going to school for
criminal justice and I one nightwas leaving campus and I was

(32:41):
raped on campus.
It was late, it was a.
We did a late night study hall,basically with the softball
team.
I had parked out on the fieldsLike there's a little teeny
parking lot by the baseballfields out there, I know where
you're at.
What did you say?
And I was parked in the back ofit because I got there it was

(33:02):
full, you know, in the back, andit's pretty dark over there at
night.
You know especially.
You know, however many yearsago.

Speaker 1 (33:06):
not a great part of the neighborhood, it's not it's
not Um, and they didn't have.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
I mean, they may now, but they didn't have cameras,
they didn't have.
You know all the stuff that I'msure that they've probably
upgraded, you know, since.
But yeah, it was, uh was I wasgoing to get in my car and yeah,
so I was sexually assaulted bytwo people One basically held me
down and the other sexuallyassaulted me and I was really

(33:37):
scared.
I would say, like fear was thefirst feeling, but then it was
embarrassed was the very nextfeeling that I felt from that.
Fear was the first feeling, butthen it was embarrassed was the
very next feeling that I feltfrom that, and I was not in a
position to want to go to lawenforcement with it.
I was very uncomfortable withit and I knew, if I brought it
to my family, that that would betheir immediate.
We need to go make a report.
You know, I didn't know whothese people were.
I didn't know if they'd beenwatching me, I didn't know how

(34:00):
much they knew about me.
I was just scared and I wasn't.
You didn't tell anybody I didn'ttell a soul just carried it I
carried it so, but then whathappened was my parents were
still expecting me to be gone atschool this many hours a day.
So what am I doing?
Going and finding people thathave nothing to do for yay you
know x amount of hoursthroughout the day and I ended
up in waterford, nice.

(34:21):
I ended up in waterford and Imet a little crew over here that
didn't have jobs, didn't haveschool, didn't have anything
going, and they were free tohang out all day long.
But unfortunately they weredoing a lot of pills, a lot of
you know drugs a lot of Welcometo Waterford baby.
Yeah, and so I was, you know,and I felt like every time, kind

(34:43):
of like I said how I hadcrossed that line.
You know that first time, everytime I was exposed to something
new, it was like you couldn'tgo back.
You can't unring the bell, no,you can't.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
And that bar just kept going down, yeah, real
quick, before you go on.
After you were, because youwere going to school.
After you were assaulted, youdidn't go back to school.

Speaker 4 (35:02):
I didn't go back to school.
You, you said I said I'm doneyeah, okay yeah, I did not go
back to that school.
I didn't go back to for nothingyeah absolutely nothing.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I was done, yeah um, yeah, so after your assault,
because I come from lawenforcement similar to your
background family-wise, how wasit more embarrassed?
You said embarrassment.
Is that what you said?
Yeah, was it because you camefrom like an Ellie family and
you're like I should have knownbetter?
Or was it like, fuck this, I'mnot telling my family because I

(35:33):
don't, I don't want to make thereport, I don't want to deal
with this right now?

Speaker 4 (35:37):
I, I think it was, you know, I think part of it was
I knew my life.
At that point I knew I didn'twant to ever have to go back to
that same school again.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Right.

Speaker 4 (35:52):
Um, and I know that my family always wants what's
best for me and like the thoughtof me now not just dropping out
of a four year but dropping outof a JC would have been very
hard pill for them to swallow.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Cause they?

Speaker 4 (36:03):
they watched you lower that bar right twice right
and so and I'm not saying thatthey would have pushed me to go,
by no means would they havelike, expected me to go back,
necessarily.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
But do you think you missed the support if you would
have opened up?

Speaker 2 (36:18):
oh, absolutely they would have looking back for sure
yeah, but in that moment it'sweird, you know, you kind of
just um well, and you're stillfighting with your insecurities
at that age too, and not to notto put it on like you should
have known better, but I feellike there's a different degree
when you come from lawenforcement like you're held a
higher standard because a littlebit.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
So yeah, to be hyper to be aware you don't put your
back to the doors and you don'tyeah and a lot of these times
and thank you for going to that,mary did you feel that at a
certain level this was kind ofyour fault a lot of way?
I got you know the okay peopleI've worked with and I don't
know why, but you know theyshould have known better.
They shouldn't put themselvesin that position.

(36:58):
No way is it your fault.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
But you know, I didn't really feel at fault.
Good, I, I didn't.
I didn't feel at fault and Ididn't feel like I could have
done anything differently.
Necessarily, you know, I didn'treally do the self-blame but
you didn't feel safe in thatspace anymore.
I was very scared in that spaceat that point.
Yeah, I was just really, reallyscared and yeah, I, looking

(37:22):
back, like I said, you know, Iwould have been nothing but love
and support for my family.
But in that like moment, forwhatever reason, I think I was
more or less in fear of havingto go make a report on it
because I didn't know who thesepeople were and I didn't know
how much they knew about me.
I didn't know, you know, and Iand you immediately go to the
worst, like these people haveprobably been watching me and

(37:44):
God knows what they know aboutme.
They don't you know and and,and I was just scared, yeah.
So you end up in Waterford andup in Waterford um with a crew
that was, you know, winners.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, I probably knew them all.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
Yeah, real winners.
Um, I'll tell you names off air, you can see if you recognize
any of them.
But yeah, so they were partyingmore regularly, you know, and I
was just meeting more peopleagain, but not people with
ambition, like I was meetingwhen I went to college.
It was people with opposite,you know.

(38:18):
They were just not living alife there.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
When did you get introduced to methamphetamines?
Is that Waterford?

Speaker 4 (38:25):
No, what I know surprisingly.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Don't be bashing on my town bitch.

Speaker 3 (38:32):
I'm just working questions, buddy.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
You're wanting to throw Waterford under the bus.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
No, waterford was still pills.
Waterford was still a lot ofpills.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I think people were doing a little bit more but I
think I put blinders on a lot ofpills.
Um, I think people were doing alittle bit more, but I think I
put blinders on a lot of times.
It was heavy and like, like Isaid, I was coaching high school
football during that period oftime that she's talking about
Pills were.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
heavy Pills were heavy we were.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
We were dealing with a lot of it, yeah.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
But expensive, expensive, um, yeah so, yeah.
So, anyways, I was with thesepeople, you know, know, and kind
of just meeting new people, andevery time I met these new
people, I felt like they werelike more and more shady, like
they were always disappearing tothe bathroom or you know, like
just doing weird shit, that I'mlike what are you?
What's going on right now, youknow?

(39:14):
Um, but I just kind of, I think, chose to like put blinders on
when I needed to, just to kindof keep myself comfortable where
I was, you, you know, cause I Ididn't know where else to go or
what else to do at that point.
You know, um, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
How?
Where's your alcohol level atthis point?

Speaker 4 (39:31):
So I I'll be honest with you.
Alcohol has never okay.
To this day has never been mykryptonite by any means.
Um, I have made a consciousdecision in sobriety to not go
on that slippery slope anymore.
Okay, Um, I'm I'm active in AAbecause of that exact reason I
like the accountability of AA,you know.

(39:52):
I don't feel.
I just I've learned enoughgetting sober and to know that
our, our brains are wireddifferent.
You know so I just wouldn'teven like risk it.
Okay, you know so, I justwouldn't even like risk it, okay
, but alcohol wasn't really mything.
Kristen love, joy my grandpa's.
Marvin Harper, if you're lawenforcement you might know that,
do you know, marvin Harper?

Speaker 3 (40:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
You do.
Were you arrested by him?
Did he arrest you?
No, oh.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
That name does sound familiar.
He was a coach.
He coached me.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
Oh, yeah, he me in football.
Yeah, he's amazing.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
yeah, he is a great man, he is an amazing man.
Yeah, yeah, he's an inspirationfor sure.
Um, you played football.
Yeah, were you the football.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
No, I was the safety and the running back maybe they
just tossed you around yeah, so,um, yeah, so these people.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
I went to a party in turlock with them and I got
introduced to a different groupthat was from Escalon and not
Escalon, sorry, riverbank,riverbank and Escalon it was
kind of a mix and we weretalking and hanging out and
everything, and I don't know.
I just, like I said, lowered mystandards at that point so low

(41:08):
that I wasn't really noticingall the red flags.
I probably should have noticedfrom the start, you know.
But yeah, I basically juststarted seeing this guy and,
yeah, him and that other guythat I was talking to you about,
one day we were at a party andthey were like, hey, can you

(41:29):
drive us over here?
We want to get some weed.
And I'm like, yeah, it's fine,right, I have the car, which is
convenient for everyone, right.
So I'm like, yeah, no problem,so we drive over here and we
come over here.
Uh, I think we came to Watfordactually to buy weed.
I thought, right, and so wedrive back and we get back to
turlock and I'm like I didn'tsmoke weed, so I wasn't even

(41:49):
interested I don't blame youshit, not a fan plant I never
was not a fan I

Speaker 1 (41:54):
was a but I'm going off the rails here.
But I never could understandthe, the oxy and that kind of
stuff either, because we like togo up.
But everybody you know I was acocaine head.
I was an 80s child, right.
I loved my cocaine.
Back in high school I used toplay a mean game of football
while wired out of my brain.

(42:15):
I never could understand theguys that a would get do a bunch
of cocaine and smoke weed usedto piss me off quite honestly
but I never understood the oxystuff.
Whenever I whenever I found outthe kids were doing it during
football games and shit, and I'mlike, how the fuck do you do?
I take one and I'm ready tosleep for three days so you know
what it was with me is I?

Speaker 4 (42:37):
I've, to this day, have been asked a lot of times
if I might have adhd um okay,because for me.
I got like really like socialand really I, I didn't, I wasn't
I've heard that to go to sleepor to nod off or anything like
that.
I just got really like like youwere, drinking confidence like
you were that was the best thingfor me is I gained that

(42:59):
confidence that I did not havelike I was drinking it was her
alcohol, it was my alcohol,right for sure?

Speaker 3 (43:06):
um.
So what'd you pick up fromWaterford?

Speaker 4 (43:09):
so come to find out um it was heroin oh it was
heroin that we had came to getand uh, so we got back over to
Turlock to the party we were at.
We were hanging out at thisguy's house and I um, the guy I
was dating kind of disappearedinto the back room with the
other guy that we were talkingabout and I was like where'd

(43:30):
they go, like what?
Because I was thinking theywere just smoking weed.
Like I'm like why are you guysdisappearing to smoke weed?
So I go walking back there andthey're smoking foil and I'm
thinking, oh my god, these dudesreally like this.
Because the guy's house we wereat was a total square, like he
was stressed out about beer pongin the backyard, right, and I'm
like what are you?
guys doing right, like you guysare not smoking pills in his in,

(43:52):
I but the smell wasn't pillsthe smell was not pills.
I was like what is that?
Black tar heroin yeah, I waslike what?
little different smell right andso I was like oh, and I walked
in and they were like kind of,they didn't really you know jump
, but they weren't, like, theywere just doing their thing.
And then the guy I was datingwas like oh, hey, and walked out

(44:14):
and, kind of like you know,just rushed by me and walked out
and then the other guy was likehey, come here.
And I was like what are yousmoking?
And he's like oh, it's, it'sheroin.
And I'm like you know, floored.
Floored because, again, neverexposed to it, never thought I
would be exposed to it, thatjust wasn't in my that's the

(44:35):
lowest of the lowest for to mein my wheelhouse.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
That's what we always thought too.
Yeah, in my wheelhouse that'sthe lowest of low for sure,
right I?
Mean there you can't, you can'tget it first you smoke it, then
you shoot it.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
That's the lowest of the.
Yeah, absolutely so, you didyeah, so what was the difference
feeling this than the pill?

Speaker 4 (44:52):
it was exactly the same exactly exactly the same it
was exactly the cheaper though,but a hell of a lot cheaper.
Yeah, that's what most peoplego to heroin it was exactly the
same and that's how he sold meon it is.
He's like oh shit, if you'vesmoked oxys, he's all try this.
He's all same shit.
And I was like okay he seemstrustworthy it's alley.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Oxy is all it is, yeah I was like, yeah, why not?

Speaker 4 (45:14):
and so I, I did a big mistake, obviously.
But um, yeah, tried it and yeah, you know, just.
But then so come to find outthe guy I was hanging out with,
that I was, you know, seeing.
He was like, hey, do you wantto come back to my house with me
?
You know, we've been hangingout for at least a couple of
weeks at this point, but we'dnever been to his place or my

(45:35):
place, because I don't reallytake anyone to my place because
my parents would have lost theirshit, you know.
So I end up going with him tohis house, we'll come to find
out, you know.
So I end up going with him tohis house.
We'll come to find out.
His dad is a method that liveslike in and out of the house,
but mostly in a shed in thebackyard at like all hours of
the night.
Um, like you do right with aheadlight on working on cars

(45:58):
yeah, and his mom struggledheavy with alcohol and he had no
like parental no supervisionwhatsoever none.
His house was the house thateveryone would go to when they
wanted to use drugs.
His dad would sit there, hitthe pipe and hand it to him.
His dad put a needle on his arm.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
No, that was in a riverbank okay.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
His dad put a needle in his arm the first time he
ever tried it so that he couldteach him how to.
The dad is alive.
The son is dead.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Fuck cockroaches, live forever.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
Yeah, amen to that, the son the son is dead.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
Um how old, are you at this?

Speaker 3 (46:34):
point I was, I think, 19, but and your parents still
think you're going to school andyou're not.

Speaker 4 (46:41):
Yeah, Okay, yeah, living this whole double life
and you're not, yeah, ok, yeah,living this whole double life,
right.

(47:01):
I mean, so at this point I'mnoticing that, like I can't
really continue to like livethis Right.
So I just start drifting frommy parents because I still
wasn't ready, I still wasnreally shameful and guilty and
you know, I just wasn't ready toand I just kind of just started
just drifting away.
Um, I basically did to myparents what that guy had done
to me, but at the time I didn'trealize I was doing that.
I thought I was protecting theirfeelings you know, um, and so I

(47:22):
started staying over there withhim and I remember, you know
it's so crazy how drug addictshave this like hierarchy, right
of like, how low you aredepending on what type of drug
you do right so like his dad thesame guy we were just
discussing that put a needle inhis arm to shoot him up with
dope to teach him how to steal.

(47:43):
God forbid.
He caught him smoking heroinright Then.

Speaker 3 (47:47):
It was like If he caught his son smoking?

Speaker 4 (47:49):
he's disappointed, uh-huh.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
How was he supposed?
Oh, shoot it.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
But no, no, his dad only did meth.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
His dad shot him up with meth.
His dad did meth and meth wasokay.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
Meth, bring all your friends.
You know we could all do muchtogether, but like God forbid,
you touch heroin.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Right Cause.
With booze you lose.
With dope, you got hope.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
You're a sick individual.
You need to go back and read it.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
That that's.
That was a saying from a breathOne of the guys that we.
That was one of his sayings.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
I believe, it.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Either you do it or it does you.
Eventually it does you, butthat's the shit you tell
yourself.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
His dad was so twisted up in his head.
It's funny how intelligent hereally was.
He was a smooth talker, couldget his way in anywhere, very,
very smooth, charismatic type ofguy, but just used it for all

(48:48):
the wrong reasons, used it toget over on people and
everything, and so I don't know.
He just had this way of makingyou feel so low for doing you
know, anything other than dopeor meth I guess I should clarify
here anything other than meth,right?
So, um, I remember the guy Iwas dating and his dad getting
into multiple like knock down,drag out fights in the house,
the mom's screaming drunk, youknow, just just a mess, chaos in

(49:11):
that house, right?

Speaker 3 (49:12):
Um, you're in the middle of it.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Yeah, and I'm in the middle of it, and at this point
I'm so withdrawn from my ownfamily and are Let me live Like
it is what it is, you know, andso I just kind of was just
getting to be more and more usedto it.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
But you hadn't done meth at this time.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
No, actually.
So we started out, we were justdoing heroin, um, and I
remember the first time I walkedout into the shed and his dad
was sitting there and I'd neverseen meth before, right, I'd
never seen a meth pipe, I'd onlyon like tv and stuff.
Right, and his dad pulls out ameth pipe and there's a group of
like probably six or eightpeople in there, right, and his
dad pulls out a meth pipe, hitsit and he hands it to the guy I

(49:52):
was dating, my, his son, and, um, I started crying and I walked
out.
I was so, so devastated by that, you know, because I was like
here goes another thing, likeyou know, just like what?
What am I doing?
You know, I just the the sheer,just like, is this really where
my life is right now?
You know?

(50:12):
you had enough stability in yourlife to realize where you were
at oh, for sure that you werejust for sure, like I knew,
normal, right right, this wasn'tmy upbringing Like I knew,
normal, right, right.
This wasn't my upbringing.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
No.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
I knew normal and I knew not normal and I knew I was
not in the normal at that pointin time?

Speaker 3 (50:32):
What changed after you walked out crying?

Speaker 4 (50:34):
I walked out crying.
He followed me out with thepipe.
And then we had a jacuzzi andhe's like get in.
And I'm like, okay, fine, so Iget in the jacuzzi.
And he's like, get in.
And I'm like, okay, fine.
So I get in the jacuzzi and I'mcrying and he's sitting there.
I didn't know, he had the pipeon him at the time and he I
thought he just came out to makeme feel better and I was like
man, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (50:50):
he did in a sense, right, right.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
And so I'm like what are you doing, why?
What are you like why?
Why are we?
What are you doing, you know,and he's like just, he's like
just, try it.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
And if I had a penny for every time, somebody said
I'll just try it, you know, andthen all of a sudden, you've
already done xyz, why not?

Speaker 4 (51:07):
I mean, and that was my rationalization, that's how
we do it.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
That's how we sell it absolutely.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
at that point I'm like well, shit, I've done
heroin.
Like the fuck is this, you know?
Like?
So I tried it and I don'treally know that I got the same
type of high that some peopleget.
I remember feeling different,but I was also on heroin, so I

(51:36):
think it was more of just abalancing, like I felt a little
bit of something, but it wasmore of just kind of like a
balance.
Right, I didn't really feelanything great.
It wasn't a big old aha moment,but what it did is it crossed
that line and now I was willingto do it.
You know if I was around itbecause I had done it and so,
yeah, so we, I ended up gettingpregnant when I was with him,

(52:02):
and let me back up a little bit,so this is ironic.
And oh, let me back up a littlebit, so this is ironic.
Um, him and I started datingand one of the times that we
went into modesto to our drugdealer's house to get heroin, we
ran into the guy that I wasdating in high school and he was
there trapping out of the traphouse, right, and I'm like, oh,
that makes sense.
Now I know why you pulled away.
You were on freaking heroin,right.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
And so he you, piece of shit.

Speaker 4 (52:24):
Yeah, so he was pissed at the guy I was with,
right, because I will say I willgive credit where credit's due.
As far as this guy goes, yeah,even in his worst of days he did
not want to drag me to thoseplaces.
You know, he saw that I hadpotential to do so much better
than that, which is why he wouldstart to just pull away.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
The same reason you pulled away.
You said you pulled away fromyour parents.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
I pulled away from my parents.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
To protect them.
Maybe that's what he was doing.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
That's what he was doing with me.
So when he saw this guy walk inproudly holding my hand, beat
the living hell out of the guy Iwas dating.
I mean beat the living hell outof that dude.
And I was like, well, what now?
Like how the fuck?
Like, thanks, you know what thefuck you know.
And so, um, yeah, so anyways, Igot pregnant.

(53:10):
Um, and right around when Ifound out, my parents showed up
to the house I was at banging onthe door.
The guy I was dating in highschool had Facebook, messaged my
mom and said you need to go getyour daughter right now.
She's on heroin, she is notdoing well.

(53:31):
He had Facebook, messaged mymom and my mom's talking to her
now, looking back, she didn'tbelieve him.
She was like you're fucking outof your mind.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
She's a good girl.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
She goes to school every day, yeah, she was just
completely, just like, justdidn't even believe him.
She thought he was on drugs andhe was like making shit up at
that point, you know and so, butnonetheless, my parents showed
up after his mom had made adrunk phone call to my mom to

(54:02):
tell her about the choices wewere making.
So that confirmed what she hadalready heard from.

Speaker 3 (54:06):
So now she believes.
Now she's heard it twice.
Mom was on her way.

Speaker 4 (54:10):
Mom was on her way, so they came.
They basically intervention byus, which was great.

Speaker 1 (54:14):
At the drug dealer's house.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
No at the guy I was dating.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Gotcha.

Speaker 4 (54:19):
Him and his dad's.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Well, that's the meth house.
I mean, it wasn't a good house,right, right it was a meth
house, my mom.

Speaker 4 (54:26):
But I just found out I was pregnant and I was like
you know what, this is perfect,Like I should go, you know.
So my parents put me intoMaynard's.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Go figure.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
Yeah, went to maynard's beautiful, loved it,
um, but the whole time you knowwhat?
Wait, I was not pregnant yet.
I just thought about that.
I was not pregnant yet so yougot the intervention to me and
took me to maynard's and I wasnot pregnant.
I broke out after about twoweeks at Maynard's.
He came and picked me up in themiddle of the night, right, and
I broke out, went back to hishouse, was doing the same shit

(55:04):
again for about another not verylong.
Then I found out I was pregnant.
Then I contacted my parents andwas like I'm pregnant.
That's how it went.
I'm pregnant, I need help, youknow.
And so then I got put intofrickin nirvana Right, which is
no meaner.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
No, no, no.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
I was expecting to go live luxuriously again and it
was not that, you know it was,it was not that.
But I actually graduated fromthere and I stayed clean and
sober and I stayed sober throughmy pregnancy.
But none, you know, he wasstill trying to contact me
because obviously I was pregnantwith his kid, you know, and my
parents were like absolutely not, you're not going to contact,

(55:44):
we are not, I don't care who hisdad, like his dad is, we're not
doing it, you know um.
So I had my son.
His name was Brecken um and man, I loved that boy, um how old
were you when you had?
20?
.
I was pregnant when I was 20and I had him when I was 21.

Speaker 3 (56:07):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
Um, and that was a love that I'd never felt before.
I went back from home, from thehospital, to my parents' house.
They opened their doors youknow they were having me back,
um, and but my mom had set awhat is it?
An ultimatum, basically, where?
She said, you can be here.
You and your son are absolutelywelcome here.

(56:30):
You will have no contact withwith his father.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Right.

Speaker 4 (56:36):
But I was getting the constant nagging, not just from
him, but from his drunk mom,from his you know, you know and
it just got really exhaustinghaving to continually disappoint
people and be like I can't, Ican't, I can't, I can't, you
know.
And so I caved and I said youknow, ok, fine.
So I went to go, I told him, Isaid I'm not going to go live in

(56:58):
that house with you.
If you want to see your son,you need to get us in a safer
environment, because I am nottaking him to that house.
And so he said OK, we can movein with my stepdad.
So the mom had been married tohis dad, divorced and remarried
to a different guy and thendivorced that guy and gone back

(57:18):
to dad again.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
Sweet.

Speaker 4 (57:20):
Yeah.
So he had his stepdad, but theyweren't still, you know,
together, and so he said he, um,we can go to my stepdad's house
.
Also did meth, but was muchmore responsible about it.
Right, what the I know?
Don't look, I know.
So you know, I was like okay,and so we what did mom and dad
think of that?
My mom and dad yeah.

(57:41):
They cut me out.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:44):
They cut me out.
You know they, when my parentsset a ultimatum, they mean it.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (57:48):
You know they don't, they don't mess around.
If they say something, that'swhat it is and they are not the
type of parents that ever or anyof that, like like love, right.
They were very much so firm intheir shit and I knew what I was
doing when I left and I tookthat chance, you know, and it
was an awful decision, awfuldecision, but you know you're

(58:12):
not making the best decisionswhenever you're, you know, fresh
postpartum and no, no, I was, Iwas still sober, um.
But going back to thatenvironment.
I didn't stay that way, you know, um, it would.
It took a little bit, it took alittle time, but I eventually
ended up doing heroin again, um,doing meth again, you know, um,

(58:35):
and just not not doing thethings that I should have been
doing as a mom.
So one day I had.
So he got arrested.
We were in Escalon and he gotarrested for my son's death,
sorry, my son's dad got arrestedfor stealing from the freaking
dollar store, stupid move, andgot taken to jail San Joaquin

(59:00):
County Jail.
But he was already on probation.
He'd been arrested like 100times, you know.
So they kept him.
It wasn't just like a you knowsite and release type thing.
They kept him.
He was in there and he wasgoing to be serving, you know,
not a long time, but a littlebit of time.
And I got home one day and I hadmy son with me and I don't

(59:22):
remember where we went.
But we got home and somebodyknocked on the door and I'm like
it's here, you know, becausenobody ever came to the house.
I opened the door and it's aCPS worker and a sheriff or a
police officer, one of the twoand they said, hey, I'm, you
know, officer, so-and-so, andthis is someone from CPS and

(59:44):
we're going to have to take yourson, and I just lost it, just
fucking lost it, and I was likewhat do you mean?
You can take my son.
I haven't been given any typeof, like you know, warning or
any.
And they said it's called anemergency ex parte petition.
Your parents filed for it.

(01:00:04):
We are taking your son.
Um, he was about six months old.
Six months old and, um, man, Iwas just fucking devastated
because, even though I wasn'tmaking great choices, you know,
that little boy came beforeanything else in my life.
You know, um, which is a weirdthing to say, because I was

(01:00:28):
making awful decisions, but,like I loved, I would have given
up anything If someone had cameto me and said hey, this is
what you're, you're, you'rerisking.
I would have done left, givenup anything at that exact moment
, but I didn't get that luxury.
Instead, I got them coming andsaying, hey, this is already a
done deal, we're taking him.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
So when your parents hold on, I'm going to back up.
Mom played devil's advocatejust for a moment.
So when your parents they theysent you, you went to live with
your boyfriend and theybasically said that's it, we're
done with you we're done right,that wasn't any kind of
indication to you at that point.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Well fuck, maybe I'm going down a bad road oh, for
sure, okay, I, and, like I said,I knew, I knew what I was
getting in, I did not think youhad a risk of losing your son?
no, I didn't think that theywould do it without at least can
like saying something, for Idid not expect them to just flat

(01:01:23):
go to the courts and it'd be adone deal.
You know, that was not what Iwas expecting.
I didn't even know an emergencyexport, a petition existed.
I thought, if anything, theycould start a CPS case on me and
then I could get my shittogether, you know, but I would
still have my son.
Were they seeing your son?

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
while you were living with your boyfriend no, my son.
Were they seeing your?

Speaker 4 (01:01:40):
son, while you were living with your boyfriend.
No, no, no, um, no, cause theyhad cut ties with me.
You know we cut contacts.
Yeah, um, they cut contact, andso I immediately, um, I'm on
the phone with my mom and I'm so, did they?

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
but did they take Brecken?
Right then, they took him, andthen you got on the phone.

Speaker 4 (01:01:59):
I was loading him in his car seat and I'm already
calling my mom to load him up toget ready to leave with them.

Speaker 3 (01:02:06):
And were they taking your son to your grandparents,
to my parents, to your parents'house?

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
To my parents' house and I called my mom and I'm
hysterical and I said please letme come home.
I will never speak to this managain.
You could take my phone, youcould take everything I need to
be with my son.
I promise you I will not havecontact with these people
anymore.
Please let me come home.

(01:02:31):
And my mom was crying on theother end of the line and she
said honey, I can't.
And it was part of the court.
Court ordered.
You know, if I am a threat, animmediate threat to my son, they
cannot house me.
If that's what they're sayingin court you know right so that

(01:02:55):
moment was absolutelydevastating.
But that was the moment I waslike, all right, this is it, I'm
gonna get my shit together, Idon't give a shit what I have to
do.
Um, but then so the stepdadthat I was staying with, now
it's just him and I, because my,the guy I was dating, had gone
to jail, right, so it was justhim and I.

(01:03:16):
He came home that day and hesaid, hey, this looks really
weird, I can't have you here.
And I was like, what do youmean?
And he's all, you don't havethe baby anymore.
Like I'm a single guy, like Ican't have you here.
And I was like where, no, I mayhave had I don't remember if I
had my car or not.

(01:03:48):
Somehow I got to.
No, I did have my car.
Um, he gave me about 60 bucksand was like good luck, you know
.
And I couldn't go home and Ididn't know where to go, and so
I found the cheapest hotel Icould in Modesto to go put
myself up for the night.
You know, I just I wasn't readyfor homelessness yet, and so I
ended up at the Tiki Motel onMcHenry.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
You know, with enough to pay for the room for one
night and no clue how I wasgoing to make it after that.
At that point, you know, and noclue how I was going to make it
after that.
At that point, you know, andthat was the start of a real
downward spiral for me.
So I got the room, I stayedthere, was scared shitless,

(01:04:34):
scared shitless because I againwas not raised in this shit.
You know, I was not cut out forthe streets, I was not cut out
for any of this.
I wasn't street smart.
I had people that were pacingmy room.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Oh, I bet Just pacing .

Speaker 4 (01:04:51):
I could see them outside of the window just
pacing, pacing, and I was justscared.
I was so scared but I was stillusing cause.
At that point, um, it hadn'treally developed into um, a
physical need, but I think atthat point, that was when I
started numbing.
That was the shift for me waswhen I started um, using to numb

(01:05:17):
the pain, because I just waslike I, I felt like I had no
purpose anymore.
You know, there was nothingholding me to like, want to be
better, um so, but I did lookforward to my court dates and I
did look forward to everythingto try to fight it.
But I was, I was reallystruggling.
I was on the streets, you know,like I, and then I.

(01:05:38):
So I went to a couple of courtdates and I kept, you know,
putting myself out there andtrying, and then I came to the
realization one day that, um,I'm fighting to bring a child
into a life that he doesn'tdeserve.
You know I'm I'm fighting topull him out of a stable
environment where there'snothing but love, to bring him

(01:06:01):
to live on the streets with meand to struggle to survive.
Like what kind of mother wouldI be if I did that you know, um,
and that was a really, really,really hard thing to accept and
to um come to terms with.
And then it just went reallybad because I stopped going to

(01:06:23):
court, I stopped fighting, I inevery sense of the word.

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
You stopped fighting.

Speaker 4 (01:06:29):
I stopped fighting, I just gave up.
So at this point my addictionis heavy just heroin, meth
whatever anything I could get myfucking hands on.
I tried fucking lots of things,you know, um, heroin was a, was

(01:06:50):
a dead given.
I had to have it because I wasphysically very dependent on it.
Um, but other than that, Iwould get anything that came my
way, you know, whatever,whatever they'd throw my way.
Meanwhile, I'm not a goodcriminal.
I don't know how to make moneyon the streets, I'm not good at
stealing, I'm not good atanything.
You know that that has anythingto do with like survival, and

(01:07:16):
so I'm just kind of bouncingfrom place to place.
It was a good thing.
I was cute and I was young, youknow, and I just kind of would
just fall in where I, you know,but there would be someone to be
like hey, like come in my room,let's hang out.
You know not not in any type oflike weird way, it was just
like people enjoyed having mearound.
I had a kind of a bubblypersonality still, I hadn't

(01:07:38):
completely fallen apart and Ithink people enjoyed just um
having something differentaround, you know um, and so I
was just kind of bouncing aroundplace to place, you know, and I
but still scared.
Scared because I had people.
You know when, whenever you'renot raised in that lifestyle and

(01:07:58):
you're suddenly exposed to thefullest degree to it, um, you
are targeted hard a lot but youare targeted hard by, um, some
really really, really viciouspeople, um, and so I had, I just
felt like I was so tiredbecause I never slept, I could,
never, I would lay down, butwhen I say sleeping with one eye

(01:08:20):
open, like you know, I reallyreally just I couldn't even
relax at any point in timeenough to be able to just like
regroup.
I was just always on edge andalways, you know, cautious and
aware of my surroundings and,you know, just very, very on
edge all the time.
So, after you know, months ofthat, I was getting worn down,

(01:08:48):
like just fucking worn down,exhausted and desperate.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
desperate at this point to get out of this cycle
of like waking up, have youtried anything at this point to
get out of it cycle of likewaking up?
Have you tried?

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
anything at this point to get out of it?
Or were you just so buried?
Oh I was buried.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
You weren't trying to reach out.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
Just surviving Hell.
No, I was just in survival mode.

Speaker 1 (01:09:11):
Well, I think this goes back to like what we talk
about.
God, please take this bottlefrom me, right?

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
I didn't do, but yeah .

Speaker 4 (01:09:30):
Because we didn't do any actions.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Right, you're in the same boat you wanted out, I
wanted, I wanted out, but itjust seemed um unreachable right
.
What did I know that feeling?
What did it take?

Speaker 4 (01:09:36):
it took something, because here you are.
So I, yeah, I well, I ended upfinding a sense of security in
all the wrong places.
Um, I met a guy that reallyglamorized the idea of, um,

(01:09:56):
basically that I'm sitting onsomething that can make me a lot
of money, right.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
Oh, I got it Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
I got you.
Um, he's like why would youever struggle like this?
Why, why would you strugglelike that?
You, you are so dumb for evengoing through this struggle
right now.
Why are you stealing?
Why are you doing this?
Why are you doing that?
You are sitting on a frigginmoneymaker and I was like

(01:10:27):
desperate.
I was desperate at this pointto just have a secure place to
sleep.
I was hungry, I was tired.
I was just desperate and theidea of, you know, performing
one act and being set up in ahotel room for two weeks was
very appealing at that moment.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
It was very appealing at that moment because I was so
tired.
So he really glamorized.
It made it seem like it's likelike I was crazy for not doing
it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:02):
What's wrong with you ?

Speaker 4 (01:11:03):
Right, like, like, I was so dumb for not like
utilizing my assets and so Iremember I allowed him to post
me online.
There was a lot of onlineplatforms and there we go again.
Cross that line.
You don't go back.

Speaker 3 (01:11:24):
Bar lowered again, bar lowered again.
But how many times have we saidthat?
Well, we've already done X, y,z, what might as well?
The fuck-its?
Your bucket full of fuck-its.
Sorry about the F word, butthat's what we call them.

Speaker 2 (01:11:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:36):
Here's all my fuck-its.
Thank you, jim.
So yeah, here's all my buckets.

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
Thank you, jim.
So that bar was lowered and Iremember, you know, the first
time I met somebody was I wasvery high.
That was probably the mostdrugs I've ever consumed in one
period of time Just to getthrough that.
Just to get through theexperience, you know, and after

(01:11:58):
I had that same disgustedfeeling, I had the first time I
ever tried that pill.
You know just that.
Like what the fuck you know.
But instead of you know thatsticking the instant
gratification of oh my God, Ican, I can now sleep.
I have a place to sleep for fortwo weeks.
I don't have to move all of myshit and walk miles to the net.

(01:12:18):
You know like I, I can livehere for two weeks.
I don't have to move all of myshit and walk miles to the night
.
You know like I, I can livehere for two weeks right now and
sleep and shower and sleep andshower and just fucking be okay
and safe.
Just be safe.
Um, and so it was.
It was a range of emotions.
It was disappointment and thenit was wow, that was actually
not as bad as I thought it was.
It was a range of emotions.

(01:12:39):
It was disappointment and thenit was wow, that was actually
not as bad as I thought it was.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
You know, there it is .

Speaker 4 (01:12:46):
You know, I just immediately was just like wow,
that, you know, in comparison tohaving to run around all day
and steal and lie, and you know,like, like it just was, it was
a weird thing that I wentthrough emotionally.
So that guy kind of just taggedalong, stuck around.
It was also a place for him, he, he, you know, put it as like

(01:13:08):
hey, well, you know, I'll keepyou safe and you don't know who
these people are and I'll kindof keep an eye out on you.
But really he just wanted afree place to like, tote along
and free drugs.
He got a place.
He was benefiting.
You know, he wasn't, he wasn'tviolent and he wasn't aggressive
and he wasn't anything, he wasjust kind of like the one that

(01:13:29):
just planted the seed.

Speaker 2 (01:13:30):
I guess you can say um, so he he was like a john.

Speaker 4 (01:13:32):
No, no, he was a pimp , but he wasn't.
He wasn't taking my money, hewas more like a freeloader he
was a freeloader.
He was the one that planted theidea in my head and kind of
planted the seed and was likehey, did the computer work?
yeah, he did my, my site for meand he kind of did all the stuff
you know, and so he and heprotected me.
And I'm doing that in airquotes because it's like really
I mean you know, but but he wasa freeloader, um, it was easy

(01:13:55):
money for him too you know, likeother women too, or were you
just just?

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
it was just me, you were special yeah yeah, hand
selected.

Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
No, um, it was just me, um, and then so that lasted
for a little bit, um, andeventually I became so numb to
the, to the act itself that inkind of just like drugs and
anything else, you know, it'sjust, that's just part of my.
That is how I was surviving atthat point that was that was how

(01:14:27):
I was surviving.
Um, so I and I, I'm going totry to remember some of this
stuff.
Some of this stuff, like I said, it's very, very almost like a
dreamlike state.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Um, I don't, I said it's very, very almost like a
dreamlike state.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
How long have you been sober?
Right now?
Six months Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:14:44):
Today, six months today.
That's funny, I have six monthstoday.
Congratulations, thank you, andsteps done.

Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
Yeah, okay, sorry, I forgot that was today until just
now, yeah, so I don't rememberexactly how I, how I
transitioned from this guy intoa different guy.
Now this one was was a muchdifferent approach.
He was terrifying, he wasviolent, he was taking the money

(01:15:11):
Right Scary, scary guy, scaryguy.
And at that point I was like,well, now I'm trapped.
This is no longer mecontrolling where I go.
You know who I'm seeing, whatI'm doing.

(01:15:34):
Like cause, at first I feltlike, in a sense, I was in
control of it.
Um, though I wasn't really safe, I was.
I was able to kind of pick andchoose and I was, it was, and I
got to choose where I stayed andeverything and no options with
this guy.
Um, I went where he put me.
I saw who he saw fit.
Um, he set his, his, his quotafor the day.

(01:15:57):
Whatever he was feeling likewas needed to be met, and if I
didn't meet it, I got my assbeat.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Beat, so that was a true pimp.

Speaker 4 (01:16:07):
Yeah, yeah yeah.
He was a very dangerous man andhe just took me to a place that
was the beginning of truemanipulation and isolation at
the hands of another person inmy life.

(01:16:27):
He saw that I was not incontact with my family and I was
not, you know.
I didn't really have, oh, whichis.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
He's taking advantage of that.
That's exactly what they want.
Yeah, he saw that.
That was a weak point in my.

Speaker 4 (01:16:40):
You know I didn't really have, oh, which is, which
is that's exactly what theywant.
Yeah, he saw that, that thatwas a weak point in my you know
life and he just put the sunk,those claws in and just, you
know, didn't let go.
And he knew that I was toouncomfortable and too scared to
reach out to my family.
He knew I wouldn't do it and healso played on the fact like he

(01:17:05):
was this really scary personand he used to threaten my
family.

Speaker 3 (01:17:07):
Threaten your family to you, to me, if you ever do X,
y, z, yeah, if you ever do this.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
I'll fucking hunt all of you down Right.
And that man I saw that man dosome really really terrible
things to undeserving people.
He made sure to keep that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:19):
Fear.

Speaker 4 (01:17:22):
Fear in me.
He made it very clear that hehad absolutely no limits.
He was fresh out of prison, helost his dad while he was in
there and he kind of went offthe deep end.
You know, um, and he just hereally made it clear that I,
that he was terrifying Um, andso that was a different

(01:17:43):
experience that went from beingum, like I said, kind of feeling
like I was at least somewhat incontrol to how long did that
last?
with this guy.
This entire period of of lifeonly lasted about maybe I think
it was about a two or threeyears it feels like a lifetime.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
No shit, it feels like a lifetime.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
I was looking for two or three months wow, two to
three years of my life um wowfrom the time that I went to the
tiki until the time that I wentto the tiki, until the time
that I you know.
So what?
21, 24?

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
oh, no, no, no, this is.
This is a long time ago.
This is like eight years ago.
This isn't recent okay um, thisis so I've been out of.
Oh, I mean, I'll get to that,but this would have been in 2000
and like 16, 15 or 16, untillike 18 or 19.
Okay, okay, um, and so how oldare you now?

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
no late in that time early 20s.

Speaker 4 (01:18:47):
Okay, I mean the progression of having my son.

Speaker 3 (01:18:50):
No, no, I mean, I didn't mean.
I didn't mean 20, 21, I meanI'm at you, oh 21 to 24.

Speaker 4 (01:18:54):
yeah, yeah, yeah, yes , um, so, yeah, so they.
Yeah, this guy was just, it wasscary, it was How'd you get
away from him.
This is crazy.
I think that one day he justdecided he was done with me.
And what he did is he beat meup because he would avoid my

(01:19:14):
face intentionally Right A lotof the times because I still had
to look good online, but thisday all bets were off.
He was beating the shit out ofme and I remember laying on the
floor.
He had taken me to his mother'shouse and was doing it there
and his mom was so scared of theway he had became.
She ended up moving out of herfucking house because he had

(01:19:35):
gone so far off the rails.
Um, but he had taken me there.
I don't even remember what hewas mad about.
He beat me up so bad.
Um, I remember laying therethinking like, hmm, this might
be it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
That's how I'm going.

Speaker 4 (01:19:48):
Yeah, I remember laying there thinking like this
really might be it, um, andunfortunately I didn't really
have um much of a relationshipwith God at that point in my
life.
You know, I hadn't really been.
I'd been raised, I had gone toCatholic, I'd been gone through
like the Catholic ceremonies,I'd gone through baptism,
catechism, confirmation, youknow all that stuff and but I'd

(01:20:10):
never formed a relationship withGod.
I feel like those are two verydifferent things.

Speaker 3 (01:20:13):
Very different.

Speaker 4 (01:20:14):
Very.
I didn't trust in God.
I didn't even necessarilybelieve in God, I was just going
just to, you know, check thebox, like, yeah, I did it, you
know.
And so I remember thinking inthat moment, I this really might
be it.
And I didn't say, god, help me,you know.
But I remember thinking tomyself, please do not let me die

(01:20:38):
.
And I didn't know who I wastalking to or what I was talking
to.
I was just begging something orsomeone to please make this
stop, um, and he ended up takingme outside and putting me in
his car.
Um, he went over to another guythat we knew his house, um it

(01:20:59):
was.
He was mad about something thathad to do with this other guy.
He broke that guy's arm right infront of me in the front of the
car and I was just beat to shitin the backseat and then he
drove into a parking lot, lookedat me and said don't ever, ever
get involved with somebody likeme again, Kicked me out of the

(01:21:20):
car and left.
Never saw him again.

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
God damn, he had a little bit of guilt.
Come in, no shit.

Speaker 4 (01:21:25):
Yeah, so I.
It was the weirdest thing, itwas the most unexpected thing,
and it was almost immediatelyafter I was begging to please
make this stop, like don't letme die right now.
It was almost immediately afterhe went and put me in the car,
and so that was my first likemoment of okay, there might
really be someone or somethinglistening to me, because there's

(01:21:46):
absolutely no reason that thatshould have stopped at that
exact moment.
Given his history, giveneverything you know, I have no
idea what happened right thenthis gave me chills wow yeah, so
um got away from him.
Um, and women that fall into anytype of trafficking just random

(01:22:09):
little fact um, they averageseven times before they finally
get out of it before they getout of it or they die or they
die seven times.
Um, now, whether that be withdifferent people or seven times
going back to the same abuser,whatever it is, the average is
seven times.
Um, I only did three.
So that was one and two.
But here I was again no money,I had nothing.

(01:22:35):
I had nothing.
I had the clothes on my backthat were bloody.
I had nothing and I was on thestreet again.
I had no friends.
I was completely isolated atthis point because he had kept
me away from even talking toanyone, you know, and I just
walked my way over to I don'tremember where I went, but I

(01:22:56):
went to a hotel.
I think I went to one of thehotels in Modesto, and I saw
people that I had been into andknown from before and, you know,
I was like, hey, you know,talking to them, and it's
amazing how normal it is outthere to see someone just beat
to shit, because nobody evenasked me what was what happened
normal streets yeah, nobody waslike hey, are you all right?

(01:23:16):
you know, like I I need help.
Yeah, they knew what happenedpretty much, pretty much um, and
so one of the girls that um I Ihad met before was like hey,
you want to come in my room?
She's all, you can shower andstuff.
I'm like all right, cool.
So I went in and showered, um,and but by the time I got out of
the shower she had called someof her friends in um, and this

(01:23:40):
isn't confirmed, but I dobelieve that she basically sold
me to my third person right, um,because I got out of the shower
and sorry you're fine, hon takeyour time Take your time.

(01:24:01):
I got out of the shower and Iwas, I remember, um walking in
there and they were being kindof weird and shady.
They were kind of talking likeunder the table, you know, just
very, um, very, uh, just weird,kind of secretive, and I was
like what is going on, you know?
And I was like what's going on,you know, and I was just um

(01:24:22):
uncomfortable and uh, the guywas like hey, you know, and he's
like I can go get you a room,like I can help you out.
I'm so sorry you went throughthis, you know.
And I was like all right, likethank you.
Good cop, bad cop, good cop yeah, I was thinking like man,
that's really really nice ofthis person like I was like
that's incredibly nice of youbecause I had nothing and I was

(01:24:44):
like my God, you know, and so Ijust was hoping.
And you know, that's theproblem with me is I never I,
even in my my worst of days Inever lost trust in people.
You know, even today, I stilltrust people at their word, you
know, and I still, um, I stilltrust people at their word, you

(01:25:07):
know, and I still, um, I don't,I didn't let my experiences
shift my view on humanity.
So when someone tried to dosomething that was kind, I took
it as something kind, you know,um, but it wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
That's a bad attitude to have on the streets.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
Yeah, terrible, terrible fucking attitude to
have on the streets.
Yeah, terrible, terriblefucking attitude.
Um, and it wasn't just beingkind, you know, but it but she
had introduced us and she'd beenlike this is my buddy, you know
, this is my friend, and theywere being really nice.
We're sorry, you know thatyou're like going through this,
you look like you're strugglingand whatever.
And um, I remember we wereleaving and he gave her money

(01:25:40):
right in front of me, gave hermoney and I was thinking like,
wow, this guy's really nice,like he's giving her money, he's
about to go get me a room, likethis guy must be rich, right
well, no, I was just thinkinglike, wow, this might be like
you know how you get like thoserobin hoods right, like the, the
people that try to like kind ofsave, save the hood, right.
Yeah, it was just something thatI was like, okay, well, here we

(01:26:01):
go, you know.
And so he went and he did getme a room and he was incredibly
nice to me and he put me up in aroom and he was, you know, we
spent probably two monthstogether of just hanging out and
him helping me and you know,were you using during that
period of time?

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
Yeah, oh yeah, and him helping me and you know,
were you using during thatperiod of time?
Yeah, oh yeah, I was using.
He was getting you drugs too.

Speaker 4 (01:26:25):
He didn't do heroin, he did meth.
He didn't do heroin and hewasn't a huge fan of it, but he
continued to get it for me.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
Of course.

Speaker 4 (01:26:33):
He wasn't by no means trying to get me off of it, but
he was, you know, not a fan,but he was by no means trying to
get me off of it.
So the ironic thing about thisguy is him and I got to talking
and he had gone to Houston HighSchool a year before I started
in Houston.
He had been in a foster home.

(01:26:53):
So we're making all theseconnections and one thing I did
do is I didn't trust people withmy real story.
I did learn that much to notconfide in people like anything
about me that was real otherthan my name.
I gave him my name.
I didn't have like a streetname, but I didn't tell them
where I was from.
I didn't tell them any of that.
But this guy got my trust aftertwo months of being with someone

(01:27:17):
all the time, you know, andhe's being so kind, I started to
trust him and I was like youknow, this is where I'm from and
this is you know.
You know, like just telling himkind of my story, you know like
what I had gone through andshit.
And we connected on a differentlevel and then one day it was
very nonchalant but he was like,hey, I, I don't have any more

(01:27:42):
more money, like I'm out ofmoney and I don't know what to
do.
And he brought it to me, almostlike he was um brainstorming
with me, like okay, how are wegonna?
You know, what are we gonna?
do your idea right, what are wegonna do?

Speaker 3 (01:27:50):
I'm kind of like the first guy I told you you're
sitting on a gold mine and whatare you?
You're kind of like I can'tbelieve.
You don't even know this yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:27:56):
So he was.
He came and he was kind of just, you know, shooting ideas back
and forth.
He's like, well, I could go,you know, sell this or do that
or whatever.
And he's like I don't want youto, and he even made it.
I don't want you to have to dothat again, right.
And I'm like yeah, I was likeokay, thank you, you know what.
And he's like I don't want youto ever feel like that again.
I'm like all right.
And so then he really made mefeel like it was my own offer,

(01:28:19):
right, like my own, like, oh,it's okay, like I don't want to
be on the streets, like you'vebeen doing a lot for me and let
me, I will do this one time justto get us on our feet.
And then, you know, we willfigure it out from there, right?
And so I did it at the one timeand, um, yeah, he, uh.
He was a weird transition.

(01:28:40):
I don't know how it went frombeing that to being very
dangerous again.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
That same person Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:28:49):
Yeah.
He was a different kind,because I had actually started
to like, love and care aboutthis person Right and he had
convinced me that he was in lovewith me.

Speaker 1 (01:28:59):
Manipulator.

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
He was in love with me.
Manipulator, he was in lovewith me and so a lot of times in
the beginning it was like we'rejust doing this just to get
that leg up so we can get out ofthis life, like we need to get
out of this life, like that wasalways the hope that I was like.
The hook.
I'm just doing this just to getout of this life.
And then we're going to livethis beautiful life and I'm like
, okay, okay, okay, um, but he,uh, he was a master manipulator.

(01:29:27):
Um, he got me vulnerable, hegot me to trust him, he got me
to fall in love with him what Ithought was love with him and
then he, um, switched on me, um,and he was a different type of
isolator.
He took me all over, like allover.
We were never close to home,right, we were in Vegas, we were

(01:29:49):
in LA, we were in San Francisco, we were, you know, sacramento,
wherever we could be.
That was nowhere near anybody.
That I knew is where we went.
And just to give you an idea,this is so crazy, we were in Las
Vegas.
This just kind of goes to showhow isolated I felt and how

(01:30:11):
isolated you can feel in thatposition.
We were there.
I had a room at the Luxorduring the mass shooting.

Speaker 1 (01:30:23):
Oh, oh oh at the Mandalay Bay, the.

Speaker 4 (01:30:25):
Jason Aldean concert Mandalay Bay.
I didn't even know it hadhappened and I was at a hotel
within like a couple of blocksof it, um, and I was so focused
in on trying not to get beat todeath right Trying to appease
this person.
That is absolutely justterrifying.

(01:30:48):
Even conversations I would havewith people were so superficial
at this point that they'd nevergotten to any sort of depth,
because I was so scared to saythe wrong thing or do the wrong
thing, or, you know, because healways had this like way of
making me feel like he waswatching me.
No matter where he was, he didenough just to make me feel like
I always had eyes on me.
So I was too scared to evereven try to do anything or

(01:31:10):
anything, you know.
And that night I rememberhearing a lot of sirens and he
would get mass paranoia.

Speaker 3 (01:31:20):
Methamphetamines.

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
He thought I had called the cops on him.
So I almost died that nightbecause he thought the cops were
coming for him because of me.
Yeah, and was there.
I was there for a few more days, never knew, never knew that it
even happened until like monthslater, you know, after I
finally, you know, kind of brokefree.

(01:31:43):
That just kind of goes to showyou how could you be right there
and not know that is soisolated right there, that is so
detached from reality, you know, which is why it just felt so
unreachable to get out of thatsituation, you know so how did

(01:32:04):
you get out of that?
so he and I uh, landed inmodesto one day.
He had to come back.
He had a sister out here he wastrying to get something from
his sister, um, and we landedback in modesto and we, um, he
had left, i't remember, wedidn't have a room.
We were kind of struggling, um,and he basically left to go

(01:32:27):
somewhere.
So him and I were split up andI, um didn't have a phone, cause
I, of course.
How, why would I have?
You know, he would never let mehave a phone, right, of course,
um.
So we got split up and I endedup going over to a hotel and
getting a room and he,apparently in another one of his

(01:32:48):
paranoias, thought that I had aroom in a different hotel.
He had brandished a firearm atthe hotel, thinking I was in the
room, and he got arrested, telluh, thinking I was in the room

(01:33:08):
um and he got arrested and Ididn't immediately run because I
was like, where do where I'mterrified, I mean and where do
you go?
and where do I go?
You know, um, I was scared, Iwas really scared, and but then
I um, and I was also in drugcourt.
At this time in my life I hadcaught a charge for false
impersonation.
I had spent 12 days in jailunder someone else's name.

(01:33:29):
Random fact, I caught a falseimpersonation charge and so I
got drug court for it.
Because it was like, obviously,drugs kind of made me make that
terrible decision and I wasattending drug court.
So one of the days when I wentinto drug court, make that
terrible decision and I wasattending drug court, so one of
the days when I went into drugcourt, he had real court, and
this is when drug court used tostill be right across the street
from the courthouse, and so Iwent straight from drug court

(01:33:49):
and.
I went in there to see where hestood in his trial because I
wanted to know exactly, like ifhe was going to be in there long
enough for me to run.
I was going to gonna run.
I didn't give a shit about drugcourt.
I didn't give a shit about whatI was leaving behind.
I could not care less.
I was getting the fuck away.
Um, and I went in there and hewas getting held.
He got brought in and on thelooking crazy, the chair with

(01:34:10):
the the thing and the face maskand all that crap, you know spit
mask.
Yeah, he was looking insane, um,and they brought him in and
they continued to push itbecause he needed to see a
psychiatrist to see if he wasmentally competent to stand
trial, and I knew that thatprocess took a minute, and so I

(01:34:32):
went back to the hotel room thatI had, I grabbed my stuff and I
left and I can't I'm not goingto go into much detail about
where I went or anything, um,just left.
I left, perfect, I left and Inever looked back.
And, um, I was very lucky tohave found a place where I was

(01:34:59):
able to finally catch a breakand get my life on straight, you
know, and so I got off of theheroin.
At this point, the methcontinued and this was in, I
think, 2018, 17 or 18.
The meth continued for lots ofreasons, partially because I was

(01:35:21):
telling myself that I kind ofneeded it to continue to push on
, but in reality, now lookingback, I think it was my only way
of coping.
I was happy to be off theheroin, but that was the only
way that I could feel safe.
Yeah, to continue to run fromthis person at the time, cause
it kind of made me forget aboutall of that.
But as soon as I would start tosober up, the fear of, like

(01:35:44):
this man getting out and findingme would start to sink back in.
Um, so I stayed high.
I stayed high and I continuedto do everything that I continue
to do.
I got a job.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
I um were in Modesto.

Speaker 4 (01:35:56):
No, I was in Escalon at this point, okay, doing you
know normal people things,paying my taxes.
I was like back to living kindof normal again, you know, and
safe, and saving some money upand doing things that I needed
to do.
And as time went on, thisperson that used to be so scary

(01:36:24):
and so big was no longer big andscared.
He just kept getting a littlebit smaller, you know, um, and I
started to be like wow, likeI'm going to be okay, you know
he's not going to come after me.
Even if he does, I'm not.
I'm not scared of him the waythat I was, you know, um, but I
was still dealing with a lot ofPTSD type things.

(01:36:46):
So, but that didn't reallystart happening until quite a
while down the road.
I think the fear of him, theimmediate fear of danger, kept
me out of that PTSD for sometime when I started to notice
the PTSD sort of kick in wasafter I, so I met, I met.

Speaker 3 (01:37:04):
A guy.

Speaker 4 (01:37:05):
I met a guy right and we got involved and I got
pregnant again.
I didn't know I was pregnantuntil I was in labor.
Random fact, yeah how does thathappen.
That whole show.
I didn't know I was pregnant.
Yeah, I always thought it wasbullshit, it's not.

(01:37:25):
I had had.
So I had something calledendometriosis growing up, very
erect, not to get like too indepth, but I was my, my like,
monthly stuff was superirregular.
I would go nine months withouthaving anything and then it was
not irregular for me to like nothave a whole lot of, have a

(01:37:52):
whole lot of normalcy with mybody, right, um, and so I hadn't
had a period I lost a ton ofweight.
Um, I didn't gain weight.
I had started working at a gym.
I was cleaning a gym, so I gota free gym membership, so I
started working out, right, andI lost weight and, um, yeah, she
didn't move, or if she did, I,you know, thought it was like
gas or something.
She didn't move, or, if she did, I thought it was like gas or
something.
I didn't get swollen feet.

(01:38:13):
None of the telltale signs thatI had when I had my son, not a
single one came with my daughter, and so I went to the hospital
and I went into the emergencyroom because I thought my
endometriosis was coming back,because it was kind of a similar
type of pain, and I got inthere and they were like, ok,
well, let's take you back toultra, see what we can see.
See if you have a cyst.
If it's, you know what we cansee on the ultrasound?

(01:38:35):
And I went back there with thedoctor.
The doctor looked at me and sheI never seen the color drain
out of the ultrasoundtechnician's face and I was like
what's going on, you know?
And she's like, well, you'regoing to have to wait for the
doctor.
I can't tell you anything.
Like you're gonna have to waitfor that.
And I'm like, no, what's goingon?
And she wouldn't tell me.

(01:38:55):
And I got back in the room andthe doctor came in and she said
you're pregnant.
And I said, oh.
I said how far along am I?
She said you're in labor.

Speaker 3 (01:39:05):
Shit.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
I was like okay, how big was the baby?

Speaker 4 (01:39:12):
Little, yeah, five pounds.
I mean teeny, teeny, littlegirl Teeny.
And she came what theyapproximated to be about three
weeks early.
I had been smoking.

Speaker 3 (01:39:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:39:31):
I had been on drugs.

Speaker 3 (01:39:33):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:39:34):
I had not taken prenatal vitamins, I had not
seen a doctor, I had not done.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
Why would you?
You didn't know.

Speaker 4 (01:39:44):
So then I had her and then just this overwhelming
sense of like, oh my god, likewhat the fuck did I just do to
this kid?
You know?
Like just guilt, guilt, guilt,love.
I was like like justimmediately in love, but so
guilty.

(01:40:04):
I didn't have a car seat totake her home in, I didn't have
anything at home for her, wedidn't have clothes, we didn't
have anything.
And I was like, okay, so justvery, very, very um, shocked,
shocked, um.
So we, I ended up getting herhome and, um, after having her

(01:40:31):
is when PTSD started to kick in.
Um, I was, I think I washypersensitive to her safety, um
, and I just was noticing, I waswhat did the father of this
child think?

(01:40:53):
This is funny cause you know,yes, I do his immediate reaction
.
I called him and I said hey,I'm in labor, he's all.
Oh well, she, they're going upfor adoption period.
And I was like I'm sorry, what?
And he's all, what do you mean?
He's all, that's absolutely.
You're not bringing a childhome, like that's not happening.
And I'm well, I guess I'm notbringing it home to you, but I'm
not giving my kid up foradoption.
So, um, and his daughter, hisoldest daughter, is the one that

(01:41:14):
was like kind of reeled himback into reality.
You know, I think it was justhis, his instinct was just like
what the fuck?
You know, um?
And she, she was like what areyou talking about?
So she ended up bringing himdown there.
It was during covid, so he, itwas like he was the only one
allowed in the room, um, andthen when he, when he left, he

(01:41:34):
couldn't come back, like oncethey left and he had to go get a
car seat and shit, and so, likeI was there by myself with her
for you know, the first day, um,yeah, his reaction was not not
the greatest right and Right,and so I was like well, it is
what it is.
You know, um, I got her homeand that little girl became.
I was just so, um.

(01:41:55):
I think I had seen so much in mylife at that point and, knowing
she was a little girl, it wasdifferent, like I just became so
aware of all of these traumas Ihadn't worked through, I had
just pushed aside.
You know, I was super, superhypersensitive to our
surroundings all the time.
I was finding myself in certainsituations, like things would

(01:42:17):
just trigger me and I would justget stuck back in a memory of
you know, whatever memory it wasand I noticed I think it was
the worst one I noticed was whenshe was she's probably about
two, maybe three, and I wasstanding inside and I don't even
remember what it was thattriggered me to kind of go into

(01:42:38):
this, like detached from reality.
But I remember her being likemom, mommy, mommy, and I don't
even know how many times she hadcalled my name and I was just
completely, just not there, youknow, um, and then I would like
snap back in and I would pickher up and you know, but it's
just just, she was dealing withthe aftermath of my traumas at

(01:42:58):
that point, um, and so sorry goahead.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
No, no, no go ahead no, not so how old is she?
So how old is she now?
Five, five, five she's fiveokay, beautiful, so you went
back in you went back out againthen yeah, no, I never stopped
jenny, she ever got

Speaker 3 (01:43:16):
sober oh okay, six months ago.

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
So the holding the baby and all that stuff didn't
bring you back into any kind ofreality go figure.

Speaker 2 (01:43:24):
No complications with her when she came out.

Speaker 3 (01:43:26):
No, she's amazing.
Yeah, talk about a blessing.

Speaker 4 (01:43:31):
She is intelligent little girl.
I mean just yeah, she'sbeautiful and perfect in every
way, no complications.

Speaker 3 (01:43:41):
Thank God, say that again, thank God.

Speaker 1 (01:43:45):
Yeah.
So what got you sober?
Yeah, what got you sober?
Let's talk about that.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
Yeah, because the baby didn't.
No, I got deathly ill for noapparent reason, so I had been
staying At this point.
I was justifying it because Iwas running back and forth from
hospital trip to hospital tripand I was like I got to keep up.

Speaker 3 (01:44:07):
I was just exhausted all the time I got to have the
myth.

Speaker 4 (01:44:09):
Uh-huh, just justifying, rationalizing,
telling myself everything wasfine, you know, and like it just
was not.
But I got really, really,really sick one day at work,
throwing up bad.
No idea what happened and Iwent to my parents' house.
By the time I got to myparents' house I had passed out
in the front seat of my car withthe door open.

(01:44:30):
It was raining.

Speaker 1 (01:44:31):
So you mended relationship with your parents
at this point?
Yeah, okay, we skipped overthat.

Speaker 4 (01:44:38):
Yeah, you're right.
No, after I had kind of turnedmy life around and I was kind of
up and coming again.
My mom's mom passed away.

Speaker 1 (01:44:46):
Okay.
And I found out about it and Iso you got to have a
relationship with your son again.

Speaker 4 (01:44:51):
No, my parents don't have my son anymore.
That's a uh, one of thosethings that I haven't.
I have the information to wheremy son is he's within the
family but I haven't had theguts to have that conversation
with my mom as to why shedoesn't still have him.
I've made this up in my ownhead to, I think, cope with it.

(01:45:11):
I do believe that she probablygot him because he was probably
in danger because of his dad'sfamily.
They were, they were crazy andthey were relentless and they
would not have given up.
And if my parents were holdinghim from them, I could only
imagine the threats, thebullshit they were dealing with.

(01:45:31):
So they probably gave him to.
It's a very close family friendof ours.
They live in escalon and myparents are still very much
involved in his life, but theydon't have him anymore, okay, um
so you're sick, you're reallysick I'm really sick.
I'd gone over to my parentshouse, um, and I ended up
getting hospitalized and theywere testing me for meningitis,

(01:45:52):
um, just all kinds of shit.
I was super sick, um, and my momworks for sutter and so she was
just on the shit on top of it,she created a whole online page
for me before I even like I wassleeping and she had gone and
she was trying to get all my labwork and everything and, um,

(01:46:13):
this is not funny, but this iskind of funny.
Looking back, when I went in, Ihad my shit on me, right,
because I always had my shit onme.
I had my pipe, I had my dope, Ihad my stuff because I was
never going to leave it at home,right, so I had it on me and so
I put it inside of this, um,like patient belongings bag.

(01:46:33):
But my mom was coming in andshe kept going through my stuff
to try to get me my phone or getme my whatever, and I'm like my
mom's going to find that shit.
So I took it out of there and Iput it in my pillowcase.

Speaker 1 (01:46:47):
And I woke up.

Speaker 4 (01:46:47):
One night to the nurse coming in my room and she
went to fluff my pillow and allover the floor.
And at that point what am Igonna say?
I'm full of course even still,even still.
I was like who the hell are youletting in my room?
you guys need better staff.
Still trying to keep up thislie, right, just insanity.

(01:47:08):
Um, and finally I was like andso then they were requiring a
toxicology report, like theyneeded me to pee in a cup.
So I started flipping out.
I called, uh, my daughter's dadwas like come, get me the hell
out of here.
My, I cannot have reality'scoming right, I can't have my
parents because in my mind.
The way I was thinking is Icannot lose my daughter too.

(01:47:30):
That was immediately where mymind went.
And if my parents found out,and they knew that I had been
lying, I was so scared.
I was so scared, and so I justwas yeah, I was hiding and lying
and everything Shit just hitthe fan, you know, and shit came
to a point and it just was whatit was.
And so I um ended up.

(01:47:51):
My mom came in the room and Idon't know how she found out
because I still hadn't.
I held my pee for like almost,almost 24 hours.
I refused to go pee, um.
So I don't know how she foundout, but she found out and she
came in and she just startedcrying and she just gave me a
hug and she said it's gonna tobe okay.
And I was like mom, I can'tlose her too.
I cannot lose her to mydaughter.
And she said I would never.

(01:48:12):
She said you're not the sameperson you are.
You are not the same place youare.

Speaker 1 (01:48:15):
She said you just need help it sounded like maybe
she wasn't the same person atthat absolutely both, yeah, so
is that when you came in therooms, Cause I, that's when I
had met you first.

Speaker 3 (01:48:27):
You had just.
You're brand new.
Yeah, I am brand new.
She came to my Thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
Yeah, big book study.

Speaker 3 (01:48:33):
Brand new.

Speaker 1 (01:48:34):
Yeah, See, hey yeah, are you done?

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
Yeah, I'm done, go ahead, fucking guy yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:48:42):
I went straight to the.
I went from the hospital.
I stayed in the hospital abouta week and went straight out to
First Steps in Clovis and I dida 30 day inpatient because I
knew I needed the inpatient,because I had a lot of stress
factors at home that I needed tojust be able to forget about
and go and take care of me for alittle bit because I wouldn't
have done it at home.
So I went over there and I didmy 30 day, got and immediately

(01:49:11):
went hit the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:49:11):
Running was shopping for a home fellowship and I
found oakdale and man, I justthursday night welcome home,
welcome home I felt right athome when I found so never, at
any point, did you think aboutgoing into an na you know I had
gone into any after my excuse memy Nirvana trip and it was a
bad experience.

Speaker 4 (01:49:32):
I had a couple of guys try to like 13 step me and
then I had someone try to sellme drugs after the meeting and I
was like and, to be honest, thepeople I feel like Say it, say
it, preach it.
This is no offense to NA in anyway, shape or form, and if it
works for people, I'm more thanhappy for them.
But I was trying to find a roomwhere people were living lives

(01:49:53):
that I wanted to live, like ifthat makes sense, and NA, to me,
capped out at like it justcapped out at a different level
than AA.
I feel like AA really lives inthe solution and it really like
it's just more about like hey,we're really bettering ourselves

(01:50:13):
as people.
It's not like like sitting inthe bullshit that we were in.

Speaker 1 (01:50:15):
You know, no, and I, I can appreciate that because I,
I've I mean, I've had, we'vespoken to na people.
We've had to have them.
You know, I, we offered them tocome on here and to share their
side of the na and it's.
And they the two people that weoffered them to come on here
and to share their side of theDNA and it's and they, the two
people that we've invited tocome on here they backed out the
last minute because they didn'twant to get they didn't want to
.
They thought it was going to getinto a debate and it's like

(01:50:35):
listen, it's never a debate.
We're all sober Right.
Tell me why you're, why you'resober through NA.
That's what what I wanted tohear.

Speaker 4 (01:50:43):
Yeah, no, for sure, I , um, yeah, I just I didn't
really the couple of ones that Iwent to I had that experience
and then.
I just didn't feel like anybodyin there was like living, as I
was looking for people that wereliving happily and I didn't get
that vibe and it could havejust been the one I went to you
know it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:51:01):
The thing is, is you got, you're in a, you're in
recovery and you're in a goodplace and you're happy there,
right, whether that's in a, afucking goat farm, it doesn't
matter.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
She came in because I was there the first day she
came in.
Was it my thursday night, bigbook study, one of those anyway?
But she was, she was ready todo it.
I mean, yeah, she's willing.
She had the willingness, thedesire we talked about that, but
you can't do anything withoutit, no matter where we started
recording, your willingness wasjust wide open.

Speaker 1 (01:51:29):
You know, that's why you were saying your first
sponsor just you needed to go.
Yeah, I mean, I was the sameway when I was, when I first met
rob I.
I needed to go and my sponsorjust wasn't doing it right and I
had to do something different.

Speaker 4 (01:51:41):
And that different was getting a different sponsor
and you had to do the same thingyeah, I had that window of
willingness was closing rightand it happens quickly, yeah it
was closing for me and I felt ithappening, and that's when I
really got scared because I waslike, wow, I'm gonna run out of
these rooms if I don't fuckingget someone that's gonna help me
right now, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:51:58):
Thank you, christy, I know that, but christy had the
same thing right.

Speaker 4 (01:52:01):
She took action yeah, we did it, yeah, and so she
sees that yeah she, she manchristy and she's out of life.

Speaker 3 (01:52:09):
She's amazing.
Absolutely she's out of life,absolutely.
I never told christy anythingthat you know when we guys have
a lot of similarities we do.

Speaker 4 (01:52:17):
Yeah, it's funny how god works and puts we do well,
and I loved christy from thevery first meeting I went to,
but I didn't think she wassponsoring and I I was.
I don't know I don't know why Ididn't think she was sponsoring
and I was.
I don't know I don't know why Ididn't ask.
But I, like, was just kind oflike more like Christy was my
buddy, like Christy was myfriend immediately, but I just
didn't like think to ask her tosponsor me.
And then whenever I got jealouscause I heard she was

(01:52:38):
sponsoring another lady, anothergirl, and I'm like, oh, you're
a sponsor.
And I'm like, hey, and so Ikind of like jumped in.

Speaker 1 (01:52:49):
I was her second one, you know, and it's funny that
you guys look a lot alike too.

Speaker 3 (01:52:52):
That's the funny thing about it, and um, anyways,
they have, they're certain,they have the same light, the
same light to them for sure andyou're gonna help her.

Speaker 1 (01:53:01):
You probably get him because she loves to get
involved with the dances and sheloves.

Speaker 4 (01:53:05):
Oh yeah, I'm there, for I told her next year prom
committee I'm on it.
Period Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:53:09):
Nice, nice.
So anything else you want tobring up in there, anything else
you want to bring up, there'ssomething I want to know.

Speaker 4 (01:53:17):
Yeah, how did I get this?

Speaker 3 (01:53:19):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:53:22):
Nothing to do with any of the stories.
I just told you no, nothing todo with any of the stories.

Speaker 3 (01:53:29):
I just told you no, uh well, it did have to do with
drugs for sure I was, I wouldfall down.

Speaker 4 (01:53:31):
Yeah, um, do you know , jacob myers?
Oh yeah, you know the giantrope swing that's just up the
roof just up the river, yeahwell, it used to be until my dad
cut it down.
Yeah, we were at the.
We used to go on it all thetime we would like go.
It was like a regular thing todo.
And one day I had a weirdfeeling about it and the guy
that I was dating that um, thefirst guy that his dad was a
meth head or whatever, um,kicked a rock and he's all go.

(01:53:51):
He was standing up at the topon high street and he kicked a
rock and the rock came straightfor me and I was face first down
that whole cliff.
I was nasty.
This hand was touching thiselbow.
They have a case study on me.
I have all metal.
I don't have bones from likehere to here.
It's all metal, otherwise Iwould have been an amputee.
It was crazy, crazy story.

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
Can I ask you a personal question, and this may
get too deep, and if it is.
Tell me well, it's a littledifferent filling the love of a
man.
Is that something that you'vebeen able to get past?
Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:54:30):
So I went for someone that um and I haven't said his
name, so I can say this I wentfor someone that is completely
emotionally unavailable.
Okay, I have never been able toum, now maybe, but I, I'm, I,
you know, I've.
I had to get to a point where Iwas okay with if it did happen
or if it didn't happen.
I was okay right.
I wasn't gonna try to forceanything to come about and I
certainly wasn't gonna um if it.
I feel like if something fallsin my lap, fantastic, if not,
I'm happy okay like I am okaygood for you, you know good for

(01:54:52):
you.
Yeah, you're not chasing it no,no, no, I you know, and.
I know your sobriety is goodenough right now absolutely my
sobriety and my relationshipthat's building with my daughter
right is is huge right now andthat's really my main focal
point.
I don't feel like I need tocomplicate it with anyone.

Speaker 3 (01:55:08):
You're going to school, aren't you?

Speaker 4 (01:55:10):
Am I?
No, no, I'm not going to schoolright now, but I did just have.
I just had an interview at theLakes Treatment Center and I got
a job offer, so I might take it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:23):
Doing the lakes buddy .
I know Just resident assistant.
It's an entry-level position.

Speaker 4 (01:55:28):
But her and I had a conversation and I told her I
said, look, I can start out atentry-level, but I have to be
able to support me and mydaughter.
You know I have to.
I can't stay at entry-level.
That's not what I'm looking for.
So her and I had a really goodconversation and she was really

(01:55:48):
excited.
At least get my foot in thedoor, you know kind of go from
there.
So I mean I, I would love to dothat.

Speaker 3 (01:55:50):
I drive by there every day.
Yeah, it's beautiful Going fromtable mountain to go from plant
to plant.

Speaker 4 (01:55:52):
That's my back.
Beautiful out there.

Speaker 3 (01:55:54):
Yeah, they get this spoiled rotten.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
Yeah, they get spoiled rotten, all right Well
what Nothing, dad, I'm good youstarted to say something.
No, I didn't.
Oh my God, stephanie, that wasa joy.
I appreciate it.
Thank you for doing that for us, right the listeners.
If you want to reach out toStephanie, you can always reach
out.

Speaker 3 (01:56:13):
I have a daughter right now in college.

Speaker 1 (01:56:15):
It's brutal for me to listen to.
It's brutal for me to listen tothe fact that that and you know
what you guys said somethingbefore.
I wanted to bring this up too.
You said something before westarted recording that vintage
fair is a real hot spot for canyou, can you?
Explain that?
Can you explain that a littlebit more?

Speaker 4 (01:56:33):
me, yeah, so then it, you know I, I don't want to
scare you guys, because you guysare both fathers of of girls,
this is, this is knowledge.

Speaker 3 (01:56:43):
This is learning my wife's into this.

Speaker 4 (01:56:48):
I wouldn't pinpoint any one location when I say that
this is everywhere.
It is everywhere.
It's in Waterford, it's inRiverbank, it is anywhere you
look.
And it's unfortunate becauseit's hard to get a handle on it
from a law enforcementperspective, because if you
would have seen any one of myonline postings, I would have

(01:57:09):
100% looked like a willingparticipant, right, and you
would have came to my door andyou would have never known that
I was scared shitless because Icouldn't do that, because then I
wouldn't get your money, Icouldn't give it to him and I
would have got my ass beat,right.
So all these men are payinginto an industry that they think
is completely by choice andinnocent and you know, whatever
like they think it's just like agood time, but the reality is

(01:57:33):
there are so few that are onthere by choice you know, and
there's so many that are underage and there's so many that are
.
You know it's.
It is a very, very, very darkindustry.

Speaker 1 (01:57:44):
A dark industry that's sad and it's happening
everywhere.
You know what?

Speaker 3 (01:57:50):
makes me it's right by the freeway.
They grab them freeway, they'regone.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
Yeah 100%.
What scares me is your storyabout your background and your
family that you really had.
You really had.

Speaker 3 (01:58:02):
You're my daughter, you raised like my daughter.

Speaker 1 (01:58:05):
By all rights.
You, you had a great upbringing.
You didn't have any brokenness,you didn't.
Oh, you know the other questionwhat about your real dad?

Speaker 4 (01:58:15):
so he's passed um from cirrhosis of the liver.
Okay, uh, fairly recently.
I just found that out actually,my mom and I were having a
conversation one day.
She said that he had reachedout and he had wanted to get
back in contact with me, and mymom was really not sure how to
handle it because she said Ididn't know where you were

(01:58:37):
mentally, I didn't know if youcould handle that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
Gotcha.

Speaker 4 (01:58:40):
So that was just a little couple of years ago, but
he passed.

Speaker 1 (01:58:45):
But yeah, no, upbringing was mean, yeah I
think that's the part that'sscary right, this drug, this
drug, everything anybody,absolutely the drugs and
specifically the the industry.

Speaker 4 (01:59:00):
I was the perfect target yeah they don't go after
girls that were raised in thestreets that wouldn't pull their
call, their bullshit on them.
You know it's it's sad, butthey had leverage with you.
One hundred percent and I had.
I was so naive that you don'tfind for people that are

(01:59:27):
straight, smart.
you know that's the unfortunatepart about it is the women that
are being targeted are are girlslike me right, you know, are
women like your daughters, likeum, and a lot of online.
Online is the really scary partright now, um, I mean, is this
not okay?

Speaker 3 (01:59:41):
again, I'm not on any social media.
Is this like the dark web stuffthat you hear about?
I don't know.
No, no, this is happening rightout in the.
No, this is happening right onthe open.

Speaker 2 (01:59:47):
Yeah, this is happening right on.

Speaker 4 (01:59:49):
This is happening on.
What's that?
Oh gosh, it's like a gamingchat room platform.
I don't do gaming, but it'sDiscord I don't know.
It's just a chat room platform,right.

Speaker 3 (02:00:01):
And they are For people to play games.

Speaker 4 (02:00:02):
Uh-huh, but they are grooming young women I just met
and I'm not going to go intodetail again, of course, but I
met with a young girl last weekthat was absolutely getting
groomed to be sex trafficked andhad no clue.
Wow.

Speaker 3 (02:00:15):
She's 16.
Did you help her?

Speaker 4 (02:00:17):
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean as best I can, I got you
what, what?

Speaker 2 (02:00:22):
And I mean I don't fully understand, but like
what's the difference betweenprostitution and sex trafficking
?

Speaker 4 (02:00:29):
Sex trafficking is absolutely you are being forced
and it's weird because I wentthrough it.
So I actually went through theprogram without permission.
I knew I had a bunch of traumathat I needed to work on and
they specifically work with.
It's the CSED program, socommercial sexual exploitation

(02:00:50):
diversion program.
I learned a lot in there.
So they would even considerthey call it the game, right.
So the game is anyone that isselling sex right, commercially
right, and so I, the traffickersthey had.
They categorized them in a lotof different forms.

(02:01:11):
So there is um, the differenttypes of pimp.
There's the boyfriend pimp,which would have been like my
third one.
There is the gorilla pimp,which would have been like my
second one.
There is the um I don'tremember all of the names, but
there's a lot of different waysthat people go about
manipulating women into doingthis.
But they also have differentstreams of influence.

(02:01:32):
They have the media, like,let's be honest, you listen to,
like Cardi B's songs or anyoneyou know.
You listen to this stuff andit's like encouraging women to
like do these things and makingand normalizing it.
You know, and so I don't know,that there's, I guess,
prostitution versus sextrafficking.

(02:01:53):
I don't know would it be?

Speaker 3 (02:01:55):
I mean because during the number two you had no power
you were getting none of thecut.

Speaker 2 (02:02:00):
You were, you were just, you were, you were just
the yeah, I was just themoneymaker.

Speaker 3 (02:02:02):
Yeah, I was I was literally gonna use the first
one.
You were doing it for yourselfthe.

Speaker 4 (02:02:04):
Yeah, I was just the moneymaker.
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 3 (02:02:06):
I was literally going to use the first one, you were
doing it for yourself.
The first one was would be morewould be more prostitution.
This second two would be moresex traffic.
Yeah, you would.

Speaker 4 (02:02:15):
That's what I would have said until I went into that
class and they said even thefirst one by from a, from a,
like a justice standpoint wouldhave been considered trafficking
Cause that gentleman hadplanted that seed.
That would still get him introuble in the face of the law.

Speaker 3 (02:02:31):
But the other two you were kind of just a commodity.

Speaker 4 (02:02:33):
The other two I was just, yeah, like a, like an
object, essentially yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:02:37):
My last question was do you think and there's a lot
of like studies around it withlike sexual assault and stuff
like that and what kicks it off,and there's a lot of like
studies around it with likesexual assault and stuff like
that and what kicks it off butdo you feel?
like that was the baseline ofwhat was to come At MJC, at MJC,
just because, like I mean,there's statistics where it's
like if your mom was assaulted,you're at a higher chance If you

(02:03:00):
get assaulted, you're at ahigher chance to happen two to
three more times during yourlifetime.

Speaker 4 (02:03:02):
So I, you know, I don't, I don't know that that
was necessarily a connection.
I mean, at least not one that Ihad made Like, consciously
maybe.
Maybe not consciously, you know, but I do my life certainly
wouldn't have spiraled thedirection it did.
Had that not happened, you know, I wouldn't have been in that
situation in the first place,where I was at that desperate
point, you know.
So I mean, yeah, in a sense Ihaven't really made like the

(02:03:24):
connection directly, you know,but it very well may have been,
because there was that extrasense of like self-consciousness
and and self loss of self-worthyes, no value was I had no
value and that's what they prayupon and that is what they saw
and they, you know, and I justwas so low and that was the stem
point, like the, the startingpoint for all of that for me.

(02:03:45):
Yeah, so I mean in a sense, yeah, I think they are connecting.

Speaker 1 (02:03:50):
Yeah, that's that, you know, it's we went from and
I appreciate it.
You know the recoveryunfiltered went to a little
different way with this oneRight and I'm I'm happy we did,
I'm not disappointed.
No, we never have.
And you know what, anytime wecan bring light to something
like that, I'm, I'm completelyyou got daughters?
I have daughters, yeah I mean,but it also the recovery of you

(02:04:12):
coming out of it right that thatyou're gonna have a great path
of helping other people.
You know what heather that wasin here once before with john, I
told her the same thing please,please, get involved.
Please get involved, becauseyour story is going to help
people.
You know, I love to do what wedo, what Rob and I do, because

(02:04:33):
this came as a calling for me.
This is what I want to do, thisis how whether it brings out
what you did or just you knowalcoholic or whatever it is
we're bringing some of thisstuff to life.
And you know what?
If you want to reach out toStephanie, you can reach out to
us recoveryonfilteredpodcasts atgmailcom.
That'srecoveryonfilteredpodcasts at
gmailcom.

(02:04:53):
So don't be afraid to reach out.
If you want to get in touchwith her, we will get in touch
with her for you.
All right, guess what?
We're going to come back and doanother episode with Stephanie,
and the next one is going to bea little bit lighter, though.

Speaker 4 (02:05:05):
Yeah, this one was heavy.

Speaker 1 (02:05:10):
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you If you
did not come back next week andwe'll try again If you like what
we heard.

Speaker 3 (02:05:17):
Give us a five-star review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?

Speaker 1 (02:05:29):
Anyway, if you don't like what you heard, go ahead
and tell us that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway.
Hey, thanks, rob.
Come back next week andhopefully something will be
different and something willsink in.

(02:05:53):
Take care, this has beenRecovery, unfiltered.
You.

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