Breaking the Cycle of Relapse: Faith Over Fear

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Ever wonder what truly protects us from relapse? It's not white-knuckling through triggers or avoiding life's challenges – it's something far more powerful.

The conversation dives deep into the nature of fear in recovery, specifically the fear of relapse that haunts many on the sobriety journey. Through candid personal stories and powerful insights from both recovery literature and lived experience, we explore how faith serves as the antidote to fear. As one participant powerfully states, "Faith means courage. All men of faith have courage, not fear."

We unpack the crucial distinction between merely believing in recovery and having genuine faith – the kind that requires action. "You believed that chair would hold your weight, but you didn't have any faith until you put your ass in it." This practical wisdom extends to when someone is ready to sponsor others, challenging conventional timeframes and focusing instead on spiritual awakening through working the steps.

Perhaps most powerfully, we explore the concept of finding "serenity to match calamity." True peace isn't the absence of life's storms but the ability to remain centered within them. Through unexpected encounters with past resentments and opportunities for spontaneous amends, we see how recovery offers not just sobriety but a transformative way of navigating life's challenges.

Whether you're new to recovery or have years of sobriety, this conversation offers fresh perspectives on overcoming fear, building faith, and finding peace regardless of external circumstances. Join us for insights that might just transform how you view your recovery journey.

Thank You for Joining Us.. Please share with friends. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcoholism please reach out to us. We can get you help. [e-mail]

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Why am I always the one

SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
praying?
Can he pray for us?
No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
Catholic.

SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
I know I'm not good at just making up on the fly.
All I know is like Hail Marys.
Don't do that.
I can

SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
do 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers and be out of
confession in about three and ahalf minutes.

SPEAKER_00 (00:14):
No.
Pray the same, please.
You can do it.

SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Okay.
Amen.
Let's go to work.
What was wrong with that?
I don't know.
I don't know.

(01:03):
Robert, we're back.
What's happening, buddy?
Hey.
Hey, you need to look at youdrinking out of your mug,
pretending with your pinky out.
Let's talk about your week lastweek.
Stop getting into my alcoholrefrigerator over there.
What week?
Your week that you had lastweek.
Last week

SPEAKER_00 (01:21):
or

SPEAKER_01 (01:21):
last week?
Last week when I went to Nevada?
Your last three weeks that youhad.
Hey, you know what?
It's very rare that I call youand you are exhausted.
Nope, you're right.
Very, very rare.
That was the first time, Ithink.
we literally were talking aboutyou last night because you're we
still think that a lot of themeth that you did back in high
school that you're still you'restill infused with some of it

(01:43):
you know what

SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
I think like when I when I well I'm

SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
actually surprised you think but

SPEAKER_00 (01:48):
I never get over 180 pounds Jim but when I like if I
try to lean down like I dosometimes I'll get on just a
clean diet I don't eat dirtyanyway really and I think like
if I lose a little bit of fatall that meth comes back out get
another hit get another hit

SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
and go So that's why we need video.
Cause you really need to see hisfacial expressions.
His powdered accelerant comesflying back at him.

SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
So talk to us about your last two weeks.
Last two weeks.
Well, where I was up at two 30every morning, two weeks ago,
every day of a Brad's place.
And then, uh, well, then we hadto drive.
I had to go get my, so that wasjust this bullshit.
This is where God

SPEAKER_01 (02:27):
struck him.

SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
He got going.
So fire him up.
Uh, one of my boss, I got twobosses.
One of you says, Hey, we'regoing to go to Canada to look at
a hot plant.
Do you have your passport?
No.
I got to get your passport.
Okay.
So I start looking for it.
Okay.
You know, you can, you can fastpass it if you go to a post
office, but it was like threeweeks.
So I was trying to get, I don'twant to go to Canada.
So I'm trying to get out of iteverywhere I can.
So I go back.
Hey, it, you know, because hewants me to fly out that next

(02:50):
Wednesday that we, you know,the, this, this was Thursday,
Wednesday.
So I can't do it.
We're both bosses are there.
And Hey, three weeks.
So I can do, that's the bestthey can do.
And he goes, well, you, youknow, you go to, cause he said
the same, shit.
I said

SPEAKER_01 (03:04):
the same.

SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
He goes, you can go to San Francisco and you can get
it that day.
I said, yeah, but I'm notdriving a fucking Frisco and I'm
not paying 300 bucks out of mypocket.
And then my boss, the other, butthe big boss looked as well.
You drive a company vehicle.
It's our gas.
We'll reimburse you for yourparking.
We'll reimburse you for their, Iwas like, I flipped him off.
Fuck the both of you.
Off I go.
The next day, the kid too.

SPEAKER_01 (03:25):
And he calls me, he calls me and he's in traffic.
Right.
And I'm like,

SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
well, I didn't know.
Okay.
I went at Jim.
I went there at 9.
Okay.
Okay, I got there early.
And I figured I'd have to wait acouple hours for them to do it.
Did all that.
Okay, Mr.
Thomas, come back at 3 p.m.
I'm like, I got to sit in this.
And I used to love Frisco.
Until Gavin Newsom did whatGavin Newsom did to it.
Anyway, again, not political.
That

SPEAKER_01 (03:49):
building is a shithole too.

SPEAKER_00 (03:51):
So I'm there, just sitting in my truck eating
almonds and drinking water.
No

SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
Cheetos?

SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
No Cheetos.

SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
That's you.

SPEAKER_00 (03:57):
Just listening.
And then I got to go from thereto where I had to go to one of
my plants because one of ourcheetos.
actually one of us her son hadhis appendix rupture so she's in
the hospital so we're trying tofill in our waymasters which i
can do almost everything beenthere long enough so i got to go
back to work after that all daythere then go work a night shift
to run run scales i'm pissed offi'm hungry when i get that my my

(04:19):
kryptonite is hangry oh yeahthat that's that so i'm he's
upset i'm upset i hit thealtamont and i grab up my what
was i upset

SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
about

SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
uh coaching oh yeah you're leaving i forgot about
that yeah so we're we're notwe're not really we're not
really helping each other we'rejust fueling the fucking fire i
crack my energy drinks i'm intraffic it goes all over my nuts
i'm just sitting there justtrying to laugh sit it down you
know and then he goes you needto go to in and out

SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
burger i told him exactly how to get in because
trust me i used to be 420 poundsthere ain't a fucking hamburger
in this valley that i don't knowwhere to get it

SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
and i know where every in and out burgers yeah

SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
and i told him where to get off how to get there
exactly how long it was going totake him i said it's going to
take you 16.5 get in there getyour a couple of hamburgers.
And I said, even get you asecond one because he was going
to have to work all night.
I said, get you a second onethat you can heat up in the
microwave for your, for yourlunch.
Did he listen to me?

SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Well, I went in the wrong way.
Excited.
I've never been in that.
You

SPEAKER_01 (05:15):
didn't go the way I fucking told you.
That's why.

SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
I went into the In-N-Out Burger the wrong way.
And I looked at the lights.
I only had so much time to getto there, get the fire, commuter
fired up, you know, get thetrucks, tear it in.
Like, fuck it, you ain't goingto make it.
And there was a wreck.
So I went down Grant Line,missed the wreck.
I go, I'll go to In-N-OutBurger, which is on Kettleman
Lane in Lodi.
It's real close.
I get there.
That line's fucking long.
There's no one at Cane'sChicken.
And I don't eat fast food much.

(05:38):
I go, fuck, I'll just go get mesome chicken.
So I get chicken.

SPEAKER_01 (05:41):
This is the best part.

SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
Keep going.
I'm driving to the plant.
I got the chicken right betweenthe chicken.
I'm just eating.
I got two.
It wasn't bad chicken.
And there's some bitch ahead ofme.
Stupid bitch.
And I knew what she was going todo.
I could tell there's two guysbehind me.
I could tell because there's twolanes and they go two lanes.
I could tell she wants to go tothe McDonald's.
So she's going to cut me off.

(06:03):
Luckily, I dodged her.
Didn't let them, you know, theguy behind me gave me a thumbs
up because slick ass driving,but I had to goose it a little
bit.
Where do you think my food went?
The fucking back.
I got the second piece ofchicken that I had.
Half the energy drink stillthere because I'm so fucking
pissed.
I just threw that fucker downand get to work.

SPEAKER_01 (06:23):
Worked all night hangry.
You got shit out.
In-N-Out should be your sponsorbecause when I was driving up
here, he tells me, where you at?
And I told him, well, just pulloff here and take this highway
and you can get it in and outand i said the lines are always
too long i'm not oh no if youcould turn

SPEAKER_00 (06:38):
here but if you walk into it in and out if you go
actually go inside we always getseats inside oh right but i've
never been in one

SPEAKER_01 (06:43):
but i'm gonna tell you right now it was so funny
people used to make fun of meback when i was driving truck
right people would ask me they'dcall me my name was lunch bucket
on the cb back because i used tocarry a big ice chest in the
middle of my seats i had apeterbilt and it sat right in
between my seats and it was abig one it wasn't a little lunch
box it was a big ass one peoplewould get in there and make
sandwiches because my wife wouldshe wouldn't just make

(07:05):
sandwiches she would give me aloaf of bread she'd give me you
know she'd have everything tomake sandwiches in there but my
brother would get up in theremake him a sandwich people other
people thought it was okay sothey just get up there make
themselves salmon so i gotnicknamed lunch bucket so and i
was 400 some pounds i was a bigbastard and people would ask me
hey larry where can i get eathere and i'd tell them exactly

(07:26):
where to stop and eat i'danywhere in fact when i'd look
at my dispatch of a morning i'dsay okay i'm gonna do that load
then i'm gonna stop and get foodhere Just the same way as I did
my alcohol

SPEAKER_00 (07:36):
later on in life.
Dave's Hot Chicken.

SPEAKER_01 (07:37):
Later on in life, I did the same damn thing, right?
With booze.
450 pounds.
I got there for a reason, and itwas food addiction.
And then I got rid of my foodaddiction and changed it out for
alcohol addiction.
Thank you, Mr.
Gastric Bypass.

SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
Oh, yeah.
Did you hear that swallow?
That was a good one.
That was a good one.
I'm going to leave that one in.
Leave that in there.
Okay, okay.
Now, so Tuesday of this week, orthis last week, I show up
because Wednesday we're supposedto go to Canada well apparently
I said I come in in theafternoon so I'd go around all
the other plants and he goes heyplans changed I said we're not
going to Canada nope tomorrowwe're going to go going to Ely

(08:14):
in Nevada E-L-Y I think that'sEli but we said it's pronounced
Ely okay so get up early driveeight hours to the middle of
nowhere I mean middle of fuckingI mean no one I mean there's not
on the way to somewhere I meanthat's a good place to be from
apparently but there's nothingthere and then when We got there
late in the evening, ate, wentto sleep, woke up six in the

(08:37):
morning, went out, checked out aplant for three hours, and then
drove back.
Just 16 hours.
I mean, it was, yeah.
My wife just wiped me

SPEAKER_01 (08:45):
out.
Then you took your daughter tocollege.

SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Then I took my daughter to college yesterday.
So

SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
when I talked to Rob yesterday afternoon and asked if
he was going to go to dinnerwith us, I heard this.
Hello?
I'm like, yeah, you ain't goingto dinner with us.
He was done.
Well, what was good is I paidfor dinner because Rob said I
had to.
That was your shot.
Yeah.
Get in.
another one.
It's funny as we went tobreakfast yesterday.
Where'd you guys eat at?
We went to Las Consuelos therein Modesto.

(09:09):
New one.

SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
Did you get that mocajete?
Oh yeah.
He always gets that.

SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Yeah, Katie and I did.
And what's funny is we went tobreakfast yesterday.
I paid for breakfast and Ilooked at it.
I said, yeah, I got breakfastbecause you're getting dinner
and it's more expensive.
And I'll guarantee you Brad andGrace was with us.
So he paid a lot more fordinner.

SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
So you met Brad?

SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Yeah, I met Brad.
I met Brad at breakfast and atdinner.

SPEAKER_00 (09:32):
So he's the four.
I was just be the foreman histhe plant he's the foreman that
so i when i got to the that'swhere i was going to run the
scales so when i got there ithrew my fucking doors open the
truck start throwing chicken outbecause it was all in the back
throwing the sauce out throwingthe french fries out the animals
can have that shit so the nextday he comes in and yeah because
he went back on the camera hegoes hey is your door okay i

(09:52):
said what he goes is the door onyour pickup okay i'm worried
about it because after i threwall that shit out i grabbed the
door and just slammed the fuckout of it which i rarely do i
mean it's it's rare that i meani don't but it I mean, that
shit, when it boils up, it'sgoing to come out somehow.
And either I could rip a truckdriver's head off, which
probably would have happened, ormy loader man or something just
snap at somebody, or I couldjust beat the door up real

(10:14):
quick.

SPEAKER_01 (10:14):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Get the chicken out of my

SPEAKER_01 (10:15):
fucking truck.
Hey, I got a question, though,about the passport.
Why didn't you have a passport?
You just went to Canada about,what, three

SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
months ago?
He didn't go with us.
I didn't go with him.
Oh, you didn't go?
It was him and Jay.
Oh, the

SPEAKER_01 (10:26):
height

SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
requirement.
That's my twin that you saw inthe picture.
He didn't meet the heightrequirement.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (10:30):
who was it?
There was three

SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
of you in the picture.
It was Jason.
He just looks like me.

SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
Yeah, I know.
I thought it was you.
No.
No, them two looked just like.
So I was wondering what you didwith your passport.
No.
You just were lying to yourbosses.
I didn't want to rat you out onair, but lying to your bosses,
you didn't have one.
Hey, so I want to talk about acouple things.
You brought a topic.
Hit us with it.
Well, which one?
About the relapse?
Yeah.
Yeah, I was thinking, you know,like, well, me personally, I

(10:55):
mean, it's all of us.
I shouldn't say me personally.
We're all scared of relapse andnot scared, but relapse is...
If you ain't thinking aboutit...
It's something on your mind.
Is it really?
I think...
Do you not, after all theseyears, you don't ever...
That's not ever like...
It wasn't my problem.
No, no, no, no.
I think you're missing thequestion.

(11:15):
That never comes up like, fuck,I hope I never do that, right?
Well, listen, we live day today, right?
We're only...
I mean, I thank God for mysobriety

SPEAKER_00 (11:24):
every day.
So do I.
Every day.

SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
But when I see somebody of 15 years of sobriety
and 20-some years of sobriety goback out...
What would they do?
doing before that.
And you're a thousand percentright.
The guy speaking up that when I,when we went up to Maynard's,
the guy had five years and he'sback in there.

SPEAKER_00 (11:40):
Now, if I'm not, if I'm not going to meetings, if I
quit talking to God, if I quitpraying, like those, you know,
quit working with others, those,the big three that people do
when they go back out.
Cause I, I, I interrogateeverybody, Jim, from the time I
was a day sober till now.
What happened?
I don't care.
I like the guy that I started.
He did the same thing.
I started sponsoring thegentleman and he, we started,
like I said, started step workon Saturday.
Right.
Sunday, he was drunk until 30.

(12:02):
He called me Thursday.
Then I, you You know, we finallycall back.
So we started step work.
You drank the next day.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
I don't want to hear fuckingsorry.
I'm trying to help the next guy.
What happened?
Oh, well, I had been smokingpot.
And then, oh, the marijuanamaintenance program.
Let's talk about that.
And then it wasn't working forhim because he's an alcoholic,

(12:22):
you know, but it was curingthis.
He thought, oh, I can have acouple.
Oh, I go.
So you said those three wordswhen he guessed the three words.
I've got this.

SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
And no, you don't got it.
So the marijuana maintenanceprogram when he tried.
Didn't work.
Started drinking again.
Okay, so now I can help the nextperson.

SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Well, and I'm with you.
I agree that alcohol's not ourproblem, right?
It's our character flaws.
That's where I'm terrified, isnot relapsing with the alcohol,
because that was a symptom I wascovering my bullshit with.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
You're talking

SPEAKER_01 (12:52):
about...
I'm scared of my character flawscoming back.
My behaviors.

SPEAKER_00 (12:56):
Well, that's what...
That's where I was the biggestprick.
We never get rid of all of them,but why...
We never get rid of all of ourcharacter behavior.
Your character defects, they'llIf you keep working on them like
the 10th step talks about, Godwill smooth them.
The rough edges.
We're never going to be perfect.
However, you get some faith.
Because it's fear.
The 12 by 12 says all of ourcharacter defects, the catalyst

(13:17):
is self-centered pride orself-centered fear is what it
is.
Pride and ego equals fear.
Fear equals pride and ego.
Same thing.
I have a buddy named Jasonbecause we talked about this.

SPEAKER_01 (13:26):
I was waiting for you to bring this one

SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
up.
Well, because I have a paperhere, Jim, because I was bored
of one of these stupid fuckingAA meetings that I go to all
these years And I had writtendown every word fear is used in
the big book.
Never is there a healthy fear.
It doesn't allow for that.
Neither does the Bible.
The Bible allows for one fear,fear of the Lord.
And it's not a reverent awe.
It's not.
The word is fucking fear in theGreek.

(13:47):
The word is fear in the Hebrew.
Fear.
Get over that.
So

SPEAKER_01 (13:51):
in

SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
the big book, it doesn't allow for that either.
We have to be fearless, right?
It's an evil and corrodingthread.
We outgrow it, the big booksays.
So my buddy Jason, I said, hegoes, why, why, why, why?
I have a healthy fear of snakes.
I said, really?
You know, Dave's a pretty toughkid.
I said, so I go grab a gophersnake and hold it up to you.
You're going to run away like abitch?
He says, no, no, but arattlesnake I would.

(14:14):
I go, why?
He goes, because it can killyou.
Oh, death is the fear.
It just manifests itself as arattlesnake.
Let's get some faith, like thebig book talks about, working on
that death problem.
The snake will disappear, Ipromise you.
Well, I have a healthy fear ofrelapse.
I said, really?
Or a healthy fear of alcohol.
I said, really?
Why?
He goes, I don't want I want togo back to being the man that I
was.

(14:34):
Oh, relapse is the fear then,Jason.
It's just looking like a bottleof Jack Daniels.
Let's get some faith.
Let's get some God working onthat relapse fear.
That bottle will disappear.
Mine did.
If you go to page 64, Jim, likeI'm about to.
You see his book?

SPEAKER_02 (14:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:50):
It's

SPEAKER_02 (14:51):
destroyed.

SPEAKER_00 (14:52):
Those are pamphlets.
I apologize.
I'm going to go to page 62.
It says...
So our troubles, wrong one.

SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
They're out of order.
They're out of order.
Here, you want my book?
It's in order.
It's not in order.
His is still put together.
Mine was in order.
You got to get a picture of

SPEAKER_00 (15:13):
that.
It says, perhaps there's abetter way.
This is what you're talkingabout.
There's the problem.
Perhaps there's a better way.
We think so.
For now, we're on a differentbasis.
The difference of trusting andrelying upon God.
We trust infinite God ratherthan our finite selves.
we are in the world to play therole he assigns just as to the

(15:33):
extent that we do as we think hewould have us and humbly rely
upon him.
Here's what Larry's favoritepart.
Does he enable us to matchcalamity with serenity?
That's, that's, we neverapologize to anyone for
depending upon our creator.
We can laugh at those that thinkspirituality, the way weakness
paradoxically is a way ofstrength.
The verdict of the ages, Jimfaith means courage.

(15:54):
All men of faith have courage,not fear.
When it crops up, we ask God.
They trust their God.
We never apologize to God.
Instead, we let him demonstratethrough us what he can do.
That's a prayer.
We ask God.
We ask him to remove our fearand direct our attention to what
he would have us be.
At once, we commence to outgrowfear, like a child being afraid
of the dark.

(16:14):
Not that fears don't crop up.
The 10th step says, wecontinually watch for
resentment, selfishness,dishonesty, and fear.
When these crop up, not if, weask God to remove them at once,
and then we do these fourthings.
Five things, actually.
You know, that help us.
But you can't stay in thatbecause we'll make a bad
decision.
Any decision you make based onfear, guilt, shame, remorse is a

(16:34):
bad decision.
Absolutely wrong.
I've never seen it any otherway.
And that's an absolute.
So, if you have a fear...
whether it's relapse, characterdefects, which character defect
are you afraid of?
Whichever one.
Put it on paper, take it to theLord, and he's not going to ever
snap it away.
You pray for patients, you'regoing to be on an airplane for

(16:56):
10 hours with a crying fuckingbaby.
Whatever it is, he's going togive you opportunity to
strengthen that area of yourlife.

SPEAKER_01 (17:04):
One time I heard you say faith without, I mean, it
says right in the book, faithwithout works is dead.

SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
James 2.
But I

SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
put that together because Cause I started thinking
back when I was out theredrinking, I would sit there with
a bottle of Jack.
Here it comes.

SPEAKER_00 (17:18):
That a boy.
Yeah.
Good choice.
God sponsored.
Take this away.
You know, make me not drinkthis.
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
you didn't.
Well, the action is I got to putthat bottle away.

SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
You cannot, don't pray for a hole while you're
leaning on a shovel.

SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
I had faith.
There was God and I had faith.
He could help me, but I wasn'twilling to do any action.

SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
You had belief.
Belief always precedes face.
You had belief that that chairwould hold your weight and But
you didn't have any faith untilyou put your ass in it.
Trust is action.
Faith and trust equal action.
Belief is just belief.
We believed in God, but we neverput any trust in him.
We put our trust in ourselves.
We put our trust in the booze.
Because I guarantee you, and youhad more faith in that chair.
I saw you walk in.
You didn't check the wheels.

(17:58):
You didn't kick the motherfuckeror nothing.
You just pulled out and sat init.
You exemplified more faith inthat chair than most people will
ever do in God.
Why?
That's our creator.
It's tough, though.
It's tough to start that walk,especially in our society.
That's why it was belief, notfaith.
Yeah.
That's why pain.
And he didn't magically make itgo away.
You walk by a rock every day.
It looks like a 200 poundboulder.
I believe I can pick it up, butyou keep walking.

(18:21):
You believe it.
The one day you grab a hold ofthat motherfucker and you lift
it.
The next time you come by, youhave faith.
I know I can.
It's like God.
I mean, and your faith will growas you put it.
Now, when we came in here fullof fucking pain, right?
We didn't want to let any ofthis.
That bomb blew up.
You try to kill it.
You try to kill yourself.
So anybody, everybody else wouldhave to feel it.
That's, you know, but I've beenthere.

(18:41):
I know, I know.
exactly what you're feeling.
However, we never gave it toGod.
Look how far we were willing togo to not deal with it.
But then once you were in enoughpain to change, that's why human
beings move at the speed ofpain.
We do.
Alcoholics all the more.
When the pain we're in becomesgreater than our fear of change,

(19:03):
we'll change.
But never before.
Until that pain threshold ismet, we will stay there.
Stay in the shit.

SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
You can't use all your Rob-isms today.
I apologize.
No, I'll tell you why.
Because I've been throwing themaround in Denver and they think
I'm smart.
I'm throwing shit around andthey're like, where did you come
up with that?
Well, I don't want to tell themit came from this guy.

SPEAKER_00 (19:24):
So, if there's a fear...
Do the same thing you did whenyou first got here.
Either put it in a step form orjust a verbal form.
Like I'll call Larry.
Hey, Larry, I got a fuckingresentment.
Who?
This prick in a Prius that'sdriving ahead or whatever.
All right.
Because I want to be free ofthat resentment.

SPEAKER_01 (19:40):
Now, the resentments I've been doing real good is the
self.
I don't want to sayself-loathing.
It's the shit I did.
You

SPEAKER_00 (19:47):
know what?
That's going to go.
Hold on.
Eventually, the guilt shame willstart to go.

SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
And it's getting better.
That's that living amends.
And you've heard me talk aboutthat.
that Jim several times and Imean I I struggled with that me
too big time in the beginning Istill struggle with it from time
to time especially when my and Ihold on a second I can't go any
further what he just did a fewminutes ago is the reason why I

(20:14):
love that man beyond allmeasures and he he's got a way
with words when it comes to thisbook and not only our big book
but how he brings our bible thelord's words and this book
together he just i literally sithere in amazement listen to you
speak rob i really do but nowthat that little prick i have to
say that because i have to goback in another another form

(20:36):
that form is i gotta hate himfor a minute because it's the
only way we get along right butthat that living in men's when
rob when and you may have heardme say this and i've said it
many times but after i'd doneall my night steps and i did
them fast right and i mean wheni got those on paper i wanted to

(20:57):
get that shit like i said whenit when it started coming out of
me i wanted it out i wanted itall out right i didn't want
anything left in there so when iput my eights down and i was
like nope i'm going tomorrow andi took the day off i did i
called in i said i'm i'm goingand i went after him And I got
all of them done except for acouple.
And the next day I went backafter the rest of them.

(21:19):
And I remember coming back.
I was driving back fromRoseville.
And I remember I was right hereon this road all the way back
from Roseville.
And I was coming down the roadhere to the house.
And I called Rob.
I'm like, dude, I've beenthinking about this.
But in all this stuff I've beengoing through, I feel great.
But there's still one I don'tknow how to do.
And that's myself.
And he says, Larry, that'scalled a living amends to

(21:39):
yourself the same way you got todo with your wife, your kids.
That's just living amends as yougo.
through life, right?
And it says that in our bigbook.
It says as we go multiple timesin that first 164, because as we
go through this-

SPEAKER_00 (21:53):
It's a process.
It's a process.
It's a continual process.

SPEAKER_01 (21:56):
And as our good starts to get more and more in
our lives, and the more we giveto other alcoholics, the more we
give ourselves to other people,the less of that I feel, right?
When I start feeling that again,it's because I'm not giving
this- stuff you know that Godgave me gave us to give back

(22:19):
it's because I haven't beengiving it to another human being
right that's when that otherstuff starts coming into me and
I'm like I gotta I gotta talk tosomebody I gotta work with some
I gotta do something right youknow Doug said this just the
other day we're in we weresitting in the men's group and
on our Monday night and helooked at me and he's like I
gotta I gotta get anothersponsee right because we have to

(22:39):
do it we have to give it away ifwe're not giving it away we
start thinking that we're apiece of shit we start thinking
about those old things that wedid we start thinking about that
we start thinking about selfinstead of thinking instead of
giving it away and when we startthinking about self we're in
trouble right and I do that'swhat I love about this program I
love helping people and I lovethe ability to speak and
honestly maybe that's why Ihounded you guys because I

(23:01):
wanted to get on I love to speak

SPEAKER_00 (23:03):
and honestly here's the real reason I

SPEAKER_01 (23:06):
was going to say it but he interrupted

SPEAKER_00 (23:08):
here's the book here's what the book says about
why we give it away to you youknow and again why I don't think
about the relapse because I'venever Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
Before you go on, I want to clarify that because I
want to make sure.
I do think about relapse.
I do.
I know what you guys mean.

SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
Okay.
All right.
So, Jim, it says this.

SPEAKER_01 (23:27):
Okay.
I love his eyes lighting up.
It's pamphlet,

SPEAKER_00 (23:29):
man.
For if an alcoholic, becauseyesterday I got a call from one
of my brothers, a gentleman Ihad worked with, he had a year
and a half sober, about whereyou were at, was at a casino,
drunk, because this is what hedidn't do.
Right here.
What page?
This is bottom page 14, the billstory.

SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Oh.
It

SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
says, for if an alcoholic, which is everybody in
this room except this younglady, failed to perfect and
enlarge his spiritual lifethrough work.
How, Larry?
Through work and self-sacrificefor others.
And sometimes that others isdamn sure the ones in your home,
obviously.
He could not survive the certaintrials and low spots ahead.

(24:06):
If he did not work, he wouldsurely drink, and if he drank,
he would surely die.
Then faith would be dead indeed.
For it's just like that.
That's That's why we work.
Now, again, I know I enjoy.
There's the greatest gift, asyou were going to learn,
sponsoring him.
Some people like him, which israre to get someone.
Yeah, that would be tough.

(24:26):
No, you're right.
But the great part is, when Istarted doing it nine years ago,
when I was like, why do Isponsor people this way?
It's bullshit.
Everything I do today, thereason I do it, well, God showed
me.
And I can not defend it, butit's right here.
I don't add shit.
It's all from here.
But when you get a man likethat, that's hungry.
which I've been able to have afew, it's easy, but to watch the

(24:47):
light come on and what I've beenchasing with drugs, sex,
everything, but that, trying tofeel that.
It's that drug.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
And God gave it to me.
And that's

SPEAKER_01 (24:58):
what I chased for years.

SPEAKER_00 (24:59):
But I know if I don't do these things,
eventually, if I don't work.
I didn't

SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
like who I was.
I didn't like that guy, so Ichased everything.
Right.
Just to cover that son of abitch up because I knew what a
dirt ball he was inside.
And just the opposite of that.
But now I'm the opposite.
Well, we can't, Rob, Bob readthat over there is a calamity
with serenity, right?
That's what, that's serenity.
That's what, when I said theother night, that's what these

(25:23):
two rivers slamming together onthe back of my arm.
And that's, that's calamity andserenity.
When I was in Maynard's, I, Ihadn't, I was baffled by that.
Baffled.
I remember reading it multipletimes and asking other people
about it and understanding how,how can you have, I mean, think
about this.
You got a screaming baby.

(25:44):
Next to you, Rob said it on aplane, you got a screaming baby
on a 10-hour flight.
How can you find your serenitysitting next to that?
That's what that really means tome, whether it's job, stress,
money, whatever it is.
It's that screaming baby sittingnext to you.
Where do you find your serenityin the middle of all that,

SPEAKER_00 (26:02):
right?
In my identity, because myidentity is in God now, not in
myself.
Well, let's go back to before we

SPEAKER_01 (26:07):
found that, right?
Oh, shit.
For how we did it was withalcohol.

SPEAKER_00 (26:10):
How I did it was with the stewardess.
Get over here and get me someJack Daniels.
I'm going to choke.
And

SPEAKER_01 (26:15):
that's what I'm talking about.
We didn't know how to deal withit.
But when we got into these roomsof AA and we learned how to have
that calamity and that serenity,the minute I found it, when
those...
Hmm.

UNKNOWN (26:38):
Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
The minute I found it and I felt it, I was like,
fuck me.
I gotta have more of this.
That's what he wanted.
That was like taking my firstdrink of alcohol.
And I'm like, I need more.
I want every fucking ounce ofthat.
Wherever that came from,

SPEAKER_00 (26:55):
show me.
And so what he was really askingfor is, God, I want more of you.
Less of me, less of whateverthis is, and more of you.

SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
But here's the thing, Rob.
When you say that, I had God.
Don't get me wrong.
I didn't know I, I, I thinkthere was so, I didn't know how
to accept it.
Right.
I didn't know how to accept it.
Right.
I didn't understand what I, hekept trying to give it to me.
Right.
Give me beautiful daughters,gave me a beautiful house, gave

(27:23):
me, gave me, gave me, gave me,gave me.
He was giving me blessings andgiving me blessings all my life.
I didn't know where it wascoming from, nor did I care.
I prayed to him, but that wasabout it.
I didn't know what that was, butwhen I felt it at that moment, I
was like, yes, yes, come.

(27:43):
I was baptized.
I taught all that.
Never felt it like I felt it atthat moment.
Right.
And I feel the same way.
I mean, when I realized Icouldn't be alone with myself
beforehand.
I mean, if I sat in my head toolong, I realized what I was
doing wrong.
So I'd go do it wrong again tomake me feel better about

(28:06):
myself.
Like, well, I can't be this bada person because that person
willing to put up with me andthat person.
So I would go do it.
Well, I got that too.
And when I was in rehab, Istarted finding I could sit by
myself.
And that's honestly where thistattoo that says Peace Be Still
came from is just sitting.
But then I realized when I putthat on there, it was about

(28:26):
peace and it was about calm.
But then as I've moved on andunderstood that, it's about
faith and freedom.
It's not about being quiet.
It's not about calm and down.
It's not about Jesus calm in theseas.
It's about Jesus saying, don'tyou have faith?
It doesn't matter if these wavestopple us and you die.
Have faith.
You know where you're going.

SPEAKER_00 (28:47):
See, that's what we talked about.
I don't know if you heard thestory.
The only time God's ever talkedto me was when I was going
through cancer with the wholeBible and my son's story.
But yeah, it's about havingpeace, having faith in the
middle of calamity becauseyou're going to be in calamity.
Life's going to happen.
Where is your foundation?
Who is your anchor?
If it's you on the pedestal likeI had or Jack Day as it was me,

(29:08):
I'm shaken.
Yeah.
Because I can't, I'm notequipped for it.

SPEAKER_01 (29:11):
Right.
And I think I was the same way.
And I, I actually, I didn't getit obviously, but I said it in a
meeting one day, I said, trueserenity is not freedom from the
storm.
It's peace within the storm.
And when I said that, this ladycame up to me and gave me a
medallion for my key chain thatsaid that.
And I was like, you don't haveto give that to me.
I didn't make that up.

(29:32):
I read that somewhere.
She said, no, but you give methis.
And that's truly it.
It's so when I was flying hereto see you guys crying, baby on
the plane screaming, goingcrazy.
And I just read.
I was just able to tune it outbecause a poor kid doesn't want
to be up in a tin can either.

SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
More like what you should do when you have a baby.
Right before the plane takesoff, give it a bottle.
Helps with the ears.
Before you start descending.
And that's

SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
what they used to do to me is give me a bottle before
I took off and it calmedeverything.

SPEAKER_00 (30:03):
Wrong bottle.
But you know how the ears pop?
Before the plane descends, givethe baby another of the bottle
then his ears will all thatbecause they don't know how to
do it to themselves so here yougo I guess

SPEAKER_01 (30:15):
hey put this in you can't

SPEAKER_00 (30:18):
you know what's in there maybe

SPEAKER_01 (30:19):
some jack

SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
it'll help you know your ears changing with
elevation bubble gum yeah Itried changing my you don't give
a baby bubble gum though

SPEAKER_01 (30:26):
I tried to change my ears with so many bottles that
the student said look I'm notcoming back Jim where you ran
out yeah we're in first classand I kept hitting the bell ding
ding ding she finally said lookI'm not going to keep doing this
game here's about four or fiveyou Let me know when you're done
with these.
And then I'll let you come atyou.
Turned and I said, ding.
She said, I know you're not donethat quick.
So I'm close.
Hey, so yeah, that was a goodone.

(30:50):
Something was brought up inJim's story from last week.
And I wanted to bring it upbecause I've actually thought
about this before.
I've heard Johnny O say thismany times and that his sponsor
told him to go out.
And you are so fucking

SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
weird.
I took the mic over here so youcouldn't hear me swallow.

SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
You do have to have the pinky out.
No, I don't have to.
It's a fancy new mug.
Anyways, you've heard Johnny O.
Johnny O, when his sponsor toldhim when he only had like six or
seven days and some guy askedhim to sponsor him and he went
to

SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
his sponsor.
His sponsor goes, Johnny, areyou working with anybody?
He's like, Lou,

SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
is

SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
his

SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
sponsor.

SPEAKER_00 (31:30):
I've only been sober six days.
Well, tell him how you fuckinggot six days.
That's the equivalent of workingwith somebody.

SPEAKER_01 (31:34):
But do you really think somebody, so what you said
is not sponsoring somebody rightthat's that's not sponsoring
that to me that's

SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
just carrying the message

SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
that's carrying the message

SPEAKER_00 (31:43):
the message the only message you have to carry at
that time because you haven'thad a spiritual awakening
results of steps yet but whathis sponsor is trying to tell
him is get out of your fuckingself because you're the problem
get out of here and get intosomebody else that's the
solution

SPEAKER_01 (31:55):
but one of the things i've never found in the
book is and you said it beforethe before we started here at
what point do you feel it's safefor somebody to to actually pick
up and sponsor somebody

SPEAKER_00 (32:07):
have you had a spiritual awakening awakening as
a result of these steps.
Okay.
Period.

SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
Okay.
Yeah.
You have nothing

SPEAKER_00 (32:13):
else to say about that.
Carry the message.

SPEAKER_01 (32:15):
You don't, you have no, like, well.
In the first 64, the wordsponsorship is not in there.
I still ain't mature enough inthis to sponsor another human
being.
You've got something they don'thave.
No.
What does the book say?
You don't know.
Do you think I have a, so I'mgoing back to this.
When I look at somebody else andI see the way they speak, I see
the way they, what?
Go ahead.

(32:35):
What the fuck?

SPEAKER_00 (32:35):
I'm going to tell you what the book says, not what
Rob says.
That's what

SPEAKER_01 (32:37):
I'm trying to fucking get to.
I said it twice.
What does the book say?

SPEAKER_00 (32:41):
Our book is meant to be suggestible.
We realize we only know alittle, but God will constantly
disclose more to you and us.
Ask him in your morningmeditation what you can do for
the man who is still sick.
Right?
The answers will come if yourown house is in order.
But obviously, you cannottransmit something you haven't
got.
See that your religion with himis right and great events will
come to pass for you andcountless others.

(33:02):
This is the great fact of us.
So, if you've had a spiritualawakening as a result of the
steps, you have exactly themessage what's bill say step 12
we tried to carry this messagevery specific what is this
message i want to tell youyou're going to hear rooms jim
well i think the message tellthat guy shut the fuck up
because the author of the bookwho wrote that also tells us
what the message is you go backto the end of the last page to

(33:23):
the forward of the first editionit says this we of alcoholics
anonymous are more than 100 menand women who have recovered
from a seemingly hopeless stateof body and mind to show other
alcoholics precisely how we haverecovered is the main purpose of
this book.
So the message we're supposed tocarry to the alcoholic when you
come in, hey, you can recoverfrom alcoholism.

(33:45):
You can recover from a seeminglyhopeless state of body and mind.
And I can show you precisely howto do that because I've done it
through working these steps.
And if you've done that, you cango.
Will you do it perfectly?
No.
Will you do it better as youpractice?
But yes, but you can go.
This book was written, right, togo out.
Well, I've shared it throughmany podcasts.

(34:05):
It was going to go out fromAkron in New York because there
was only 8 a.m.
back there, back out here toCalifornia.
Some guy's going to grab it, dothis process.
And what does Bill say in theback of the book?
We would love to hear from youwho have not only got results,
but have begun to work withother alcoholics.
Dr.
Bob, you go to page 184, BillDodson, AA number three, Bill
Dodson was 60, was, was hissobriety is June 26th, 1935.

(34:26):
The birth of AA is June 10th,1935.
Dr.
Bob's first day of continuoussobriety.
Dr.
Bob was 16 days sober workingwith Bill Dodson.
So how long did Dr.
Bob take to work his steps?
Sometimes in that time.
Right.
And he's carrying the messagebecause he's had a spiritual
awakening as a result.
You carry the message.
You're going to do it better asyou go.
Of course you are.

(34:46):
But the book says, go.
It'll get you out of your ownhead and it'll get you into
service to somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 (34:52):
I think the reason why that question.
Sorry.
I brought it up is no, don'tapologize.
It's why I got you wound up.
I know.
I try to get you wound up.
I fucking crank on your tail.
I just realized you may need togo back to the old boom mice
because when those hands startflying, it gets a lot of this.
He was hitting them before.
Oh, was he?
Yeah, because they were outhere.
Now he's got room to throw hisarms.

(35:14):
So the reason why I bring thatup, and maybe I'm just a
judgmental prick, but I hearsome of these guys that they've

SPEAKER_00 (35:21):
worked their steps.
You'll hear in the treatmentcenters?
Right.
Ask Chris L, Chris Lytle.
A lot of the treatment centerssay you shouldn't sponsor unless
you have five years of sobriety.
Oh, I think that's bullshit.
You know how many fucking peoplewould die if you had to wait
that long?

SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
Yeah, I think that's bullshit.
I've never heard that.
A lot of treatment centers willteach that.
I haven't ever heard it, but Ido see people that I see sponsor
sponsor.
And I'm like, motherfucker, youbarely do your own fucking,
you're barely doing your own

SPEAKER_00 (35:50):
shit.
But if he's had a spiritual,maybe that's

SPEAKER_01 (35:53):
my own judgmental fucking

SPEAKER_00 (35:54):
mind.
Maybe Thatcher was too muchsober working with Bill W.
I know this was a six Oxfordtenants at that time.
So those of you who are no, alisten to the podcast.
I know Bill Wilson was sixmonths sober working with Dr.
Bob, Dr.
Bob and Bill.
Dr.
Bob was 16 days.
And Bill, Bill, probably yearover year working with Bill
Dodson.
So if you've had, you can'ttransmit what you haven't got.

(36:14):
If you've got it, give it away.
Give it away.

SPEAKER_01 (36:16):
Well, and I think in early sobriety, really early, I
mean, I'm still early, but whenI was really early, I liked
talking to people, but I didn'tfeel I had enough to give away,
to be a sponsor.
I don't really like talking.

SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
We smell the

SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
sarcasm.
Look out for the fuckinglightning.
Sorry.
You can't lie.
This is rigorous honesty.
I guess.
I pray in the beginning not to.
I didn't mind talking to people,but I didn't feel like I had
enough to give away.
Now, when I finally, I kind ofmade it up in my mind.
I would see what I would get.
And be at that year.
And then I felt comfortable togive it

SPEAKER_00 (36:51):
away.
Let's help these people.
Cause that's, that's wrong.
It's not the amount thatmatters.
It's the content that matters.
It's not the amount of what youhave to give away that matters.
It's the content that matters.
Right.
The spiritual awakeningresulting steps.
You've had that.
Go give it to somebody.
Show them how you got it.
It's not the amount.
No, I felt.
A lot of people feel that way.
I haven't been sober longenough.

(37:12):
I need a

SPEAKER_01 (37:12):
little more amount to get a little more content, if
that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 (37:17):
That's wrong thinking.
That's what the book says.

SPEAKER_01 (37:20):
I can tell you right now one of the most profound
things I ever heard in the room.
The most profound thing I everheard in the room.
I was sober probably about fouror five months when you and I
started chairing that primarypurpose.
Our home group's primary purposetoo.
Laugh.
Yes, he knows where I'm going.
I I don't remember what thetopic was.

(37:40):
And there was a girl sitting inthe back of the, back of the
room and she had barely, she, Idon't even know.
She had a lot of mental issues.
She's still struggling.
Yeah.
She's still struggling.
And she literally said, I heardmyself laugh today for the first
time out loud, out loud.
Yeah.
And I'm like, I was strugglingwith my, I was struggling at the

(38:01):
time, right?
I was about four or five monthsand I was really struggling
finding that, that trying to getthat that should be light rule
62 don't take yourself sofucking serious right I was
struggling with that and rightand I heard her say that and it
literally snapped me out rightso it's I don't think she when I
saw her months later I told herthat I told her you said this

(38:24):
and she's like I don't remembersaying it so there something you
say you may not even know you'resaying it right you don't even
you may not even it's that onenugget that somebody I get
somebody I mean Rob says themall the time right and I get
them from mean he has no fuckingclue what he's saying but you
know he's he's not wrong he's

SPEAKER_00 (38:43):
not wrong

SPEAKER_01 (38:44):
and he's not he'll tell you all the time i don't
even remember saying that youknow he says it you know we and
you'll see it tomorrow night inour men's group there's a lot
that goes on inside that i willhear shit going on on somebody
i'm like oh overhearingconversation i'll hear somebody
say something i'll have to goover and hey what did you just
say right because there'scertain things that trigger us

(39:05):
in our mind same thing as a ptsdright there's certain things rob
don't like the word trigger butin this instance it's it's a
true fact there's things that

SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
alcohol is i'm saying with alcoholism
alcoholics i

SPEAKER_01 (39:16):
understand but there's certain things that'll
trigger a thought in your headyeah and you go what what did he
just say i like the way he saidthat right i love quotes i love
hearing that kind of stuffbecause it reminds me of certain
things that helps me brings meback remembering something and
what like i said every time ifeel they're starting to get a
little shitty i remember whatwhat erica said in the back of

(39:38):
that room.
And it was, I heard myself laughfor the first time.
Well, and I agree with you.
I always agree with you guys onthat word trigger, like a
trigger to make me drink.
Oh my, my sister-in-law said amean thing to me.
That trick.
No, that's bullshit.
Yeah.
You're the only trigger that'sgoing to make yourself drink.

SPEAKER_00 (39:52):
Correct.

SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
Now there's things that are going to trigger a
memory or, or something likethat.
And, and like laughing andjoking.
When I went away toshatterproof, all of a sudden I,
I started getting light again.
I was always a pranksterjokester messing with people.
And when I went away there, itstarted coming back.
I ordered myself a trophy fromAmazon that said, Jim Hart, 2024

(40:16):
rehab trauma camp MVP.
And I had it shipped to me.
And then I walked around forlike a week telling people, hey,
did you vote for MVP?
And they're like, what the fuckare you talking about?
I said, well, go to the nursesstation.
They said, well, I went inthere.
There was no vote.
I said, no, you got to go tocentral nurses.
Oh, okay.
No, I didn't find it.
No, the med office.
So I did this for a week.
Well, then all of a sudden, oneday I came out on my balcony

(40:37):
with the trophy and said thankyou all so much I want to give a
speech and people like what inthe fuck is it but I got that
back you lost your mind againbecause I had been so down right
that all of a sudden being soberbeing in this environment
triggered my memory right toremember how fun life was right
you know and I started gettingback to that so there's always
something's gonna trigger andit's some memory struggle with

(40:59):
that still to this day like mybabies will come over here my
grandbabies will come over herescreaming and blah blah blah
blah blah and I get I start toget irritated because literally
I want to just not have thataround and I get irritated and
I'm like you fucking idiotyou're lucky to even be here
you're lucky to even be here andthen I can feel myself coming

(41:22):
back out of that and it's just Istruggle with and you know what
I've been that way all my lifethough not that not that a
depression thing's coming init's just when I want it quiet I
want it fucking quiet right Iused to run go into my room
after football practices andshut down after football
practices or shut down after abaseball game.
I just need it quiet.

(41:42):
So there's times where I comehome from work and I don't want
that and I have to remindmyself, you need to be a fun
papa.
The last thing those kids needto remember when they get older,
the memories I have of mygrandpa as being a grumpy old
prick, I don't want my babieshaving that memory.
So I struggle with that to keepthat lightness and that rule 62
because I am taking myself toofucking serious.

SPEAKER_00 (42:04):
And those are the most beautiful four words that
I've learned in AlcoholicsAnonymous.
It's not about Not me.

SPEAKER_01 (42:08):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (42:09):
Not about me.
Once I keep that forefront,maybe it's about my wife today.
Maybe it's about my kid oranybody else but fucking me
because I'm not much, butsometimes I'm all I think about.
Right.
And I got to get that out.
But see, where you're at, I wantto go back to the, we need to
break it down.
Okay.
I don't think I've got enough toget into sponsorship.

(42:29):
I've only been sober a year.
I don't know if I have enough togive away.
Remember, it's not the amount.
It's what's in it.

SPEAKER_01 (42:37):
Quality.

SPEAKER_00 (42:38):
Yeah.
What you're feeling is fear.

SPEAKER_01 (42:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (42:41):
You're afraid.
I don't have enough.
What if this guy goes about, wedon't get anybody sober and we
don't get anybody drunk.
That's on them.
If you have the gift to giveaway, if you just got it for one
day, I just got done with mysteps.
And somebody asked you, you doit.
Because you've got what theyneed as far as the book is
concerned.
It doesn't matter how longyou've had it or how short
you've had it.
You have it.

(43:02):
Give it away.
Right.
And let God have it.
Great things will happen.
It's because it's not about us.
It's damn strange about me.

SPEAKER_01 (43:10):
It's all about you.

SPEAKER_00 (43:11):
And what also, right here.

SPEAKER_01 (43:12):
Here he goes.
Here he goes.

SPEAKER_00 (43:14):
The 10th step.
The 10th step, if you got asponsor.

SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
This is why I came to watch

SPEAKER_00 (43:18):
you.
If you have a sponsor, or youhear someone in the room say,
you know, I do my 10th step atnight.
You walk up to him after themeeting and say, you got a shit
sponsor, buddy.
Read the fucking book.
Don't tell them that, but theydo.
But they do.
It says here, the 10th step.
This 10th step is how youconduct yourself throughout your
day.
Step 11, it talks about when weretire at night.
upon awakening, you know,prayer.

(43:40):
And you're going to find outthat's why step 11 isn't in this
step.
I'm going to read to you.
It says, this thought, Jim,brings us to step 10, which
suggests we take personalinventory as we continue to set
right any new mistakes as we goalong.
Because as we vigorously committo this way of living, as we
clean up the past.
So as you did the best you couldthrough your night step, all you
could do, right?

(44:01):
The best you could do.
Now start step 10.
Because you tried, you rightedalmost every wrong you could.
Now, this is how we conductourselves.
We have entered the world of theSpirit.
Our next function is to grow inunderstanding and effectiveness.
This is not an overnight matter.
It should continue for alifetime.
This is how we do it.
Continue to watch forselfishness, dishonesty,
resentment, and fear.
We learn about those words inthe fourth step.

(44:23):
When these crop up, when,

SPEAKER_01 (44:25):
not if,

SPEAKER_00 (44:26):
when, we ask God to remove them.
We ask God at once to removethem.
Okay, removal of defects ofcharacter, step six and seven.
That's what we learn about that.
We discuss them with someoneimmediately.
That's confession, step five.
And make amends quickly.
if we harmed anybody.
Okay, we learned about amends ineight and nine.
Then we resolutely turn ourthoughts to someone.
We can help, step 12.
Love and tolerance for others isour code.

(44:47):
So if I'm practicing my 10thstep throughout my day, I have
the opportunity to do stepsfour, five, six, seven, eight,
nine, and 12.
That's how you stay clean.
If anything crops up, dude, Ijust passed someone in the
super.
Tell them about the Cindy'sencounter.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (45:03):
I'd done all my steps, right?
And I'd forgotten about one.
This prick, I said, said all thetime if i ever run into that
prick i'm probably gonna punchhim right in the fucking mouth
right and i mean they could belistening and i don't really
care we rented a house from themthere was it was a shit show the
you know and it was just it wasbad and it got there was words

(45:24):
spoken and behind back and blahblah blah and i always said if i
ever run into that prick i'llpunch him in the fucking mouth i
literally hated this guyresentment oh it was bad and i
just i like i said i i don'teven know what to do with this
one because i've i'm still i ifi ever run into him we were
sitting at Cindy's probably sixmonths it wasn't very far no

(45:44):
eight months I don't evenremember why we were eating
breakfast there and all of asudden I see this this guy's son
come walking in I'm like huhokay then I seen his wife come
walking in and then back justimmediately I felt it I knew
well he I saw him come walkingacross and it just I walked out
I shook his hand he gave me abig old hug I told him you know

(46:07):
told him I was sorry it happenedjust like that.
He made amends.
Yeah.
God will give you those.
Hold on.
Hold on.
It wasn't just an amends.
I didn't feel like I owed him anapology.
Right.
I didn't.
That I think is a littledifferent.
I didn't feel like I owed him anapology.
What I did apologize for all thehateful things that I thought,
all the hateful things that Iwas wishing, all that hate that

(46:29):
I had inside of me for him.
I apologize for having thosefeelings.
It's not that I ever did.
He never did anything for me.
I apologize for the hate andeverything I had in him for
those years, for those years.
Well, we did that as alcoholics.
I mean, we sat in the garage.
How many arguments you have withthat guy in your garage when he
wasn't even there?
Just sat down.
Just taking poison, hoping hedies.

(46:50):
Every time I saw his son, everytime I saw his son or saw his
wife, that motherfucker.
I won every argument and fight Iever got into.
And they're good fucking people.
Every argument and fight I evergot into in my garage when
nobody was there.
I won every fucking one.
Every

SPEAKER_00 (47:03):
one.
He'll say that, then I'm goingto come back with this.
Then they'll probably say this,then I'm going to come back.
And then there

SPEAKER_01 (47:08):
There's people you don't recognize.
Like I had some amends that Ididn't know I needed to make.
And I saw this little girl walkin this room.
And I remembered something thatI had said that had upset her
that went from this person tothis person.
I don't even remember what itwas.
But I was humble enough to walkup and say, man, whatever I
said, you did not deserve that.
And I'm sorry.

(47:29):
And I'm sorry that I even drugyou into the mess.
You didn't belong there.
And I just want to make anamends.
Have you had one happenimmediately yet?
What do you mean?
That something pukes out of yourmouth and immediately you recoil
it?
Yeah, I think I've done that.

SPEAKER_00 (47:47):
Like you bit someone's head off and you have
to make a...
Yeah, like you're

SPEAKER_01 (47:50):
in Home Depot and maybe the cashier's taking...
Fuck you.
God damn it.
What?
Jesus.
I just meant maybe in Home Depotyou might yell at a cashier or
something.
That's all.
Yeah, he's listening to everyepisode.
I haven't even said that aboutJim.
He literally, to do hishomework, he literally listened
to all 58 episodes And he's 59and 60, so he listened to every

(48:12):
one of them.
Most of it was just to make fun,just because I'm back to that
joke.
So I just want to make sure Igot all the jokes ready to go,
the bullshit ready to fly out.
And you did.
Jim, this has been a blast.

SPEAKER_00 (48:23):
And those are what I call those grocery store men.
You'll see someone like, dude,they weren't even on my
paperwork.
But I know, and God's given.
This is from my brother, Doug.
Listen, Doug.
Doug and I sponsor each other.
And he's had it a couple timeswith the same person.
But for me, those are thebeautiful ones.
God wants me to do.
They weren't on my paperwork.
I was thorough.
I mean, I wanted to get themdone.

(48:43):
I didn't.
And all of a sudden you passthem in a grocery store.
I owe that.
Are you going to go do it?
That's what God wants.
So are you still obedient?
Yeah.
How much freedom?
How free do you want to be?
I mean, I know how, those arethe great ones.
Go do it.

SPEAKER_01 (48:56):
I felt that over and over and over again.
I will not miss an opportunity.
It's

SPEAKER_00 (49:02):
action.
That's what God wants.
That's why when we, and I'vebeen with you, bottle of Jack
Daniels on my knees, Lord,please remove this from me.
It's not his to take.
It's mine to give.
And I wouldn't give it.
I'd give it my way.
He says, son, don't pray for ahole while you're leaning on the
shovel.
Start fucking digging.
If you want the third stepprayer to come to life in your
life, do steps four and five.

(49:24):
If you want the seventh stepprayer, which is one of the
greatest prayers, if you wantthat to come to fruition, you've
got to do steps eight and nine.
You've got to go do the work andshow God, I'm serious.
I just asked you for this grandprayer.
This is how serious I am.
It's

SPEAKER_01 (49:36):
going to happen.
I don't think you can get to anyof those without doing that's
that prayer right there no yeahbecause if you ain't willing to
turn yourself if you're notwilling to turn it over and say
take all this well and that'swhy all this i like seven two
because it's the same thing heymy creator right good and bad
here you go take it all take ittake everything

SPEAKER_00 (49:52):
and he's the arbiter to decide what's good because i
thought there's some characterdefects i had he's gonna rip
that right out thank god becausei don't need that i can't even
fight that one he left it hejust he just showed me how to
use it he

SPEAKER_01 (50:03):
did he left a few in there that i didn't realize he
left the asshole in me and idon't know why he did that one
because it a whole you.
If he took the asshole away sixfoot three, you would disappear.
It'd

SPEAKER_00 (50:15):
just be that part of a donut.

SPEAKER_01 (50:18):
Oh my God.
Jim, awesome.
I can't wait to have you at themeeting tomorrow night with us.
I think it's going to be fun.
Thanks, man.
I appreciate you guys.
Step six, right?
Step six.
Well, if we get to it, for God'ssakes, last...
Well, no, we did last week.
You know, there's times, like Isaid, the last two weeks, it's
just been nothing but...
Well, the week before that,Brandon...

SPEAKER_00 (50:38):
And that's why we're there right if we get to a page
we get to a page we get tosomeday

SPEAKER_01 (50:41):
we'll get sean over there with us yeah that'd be
good mary Good times.
Well, do you tell him to get hisass over there?
It's a great time.
Anyways, Jim, I can't wait tohave you with you.
You, these last, the last weekand this week, it's just,

SPEAKER_00 (50:56):
and Mary, thank you for stepping up and doing what
you do for us.

SPEAKER_01 (50:59):
Actually.
Yeah.
Mary, the incredible, I am soblessed that we, God damn it.

SPEAKER_00 (51:05):
Don't I.
Okay.
Don't talk about blessing.
And then just throw the GD.
He

SPEAKER_01 (51:09):
throws a GD in right after.
I'm getting better.
You know what?
My Lord loves me.
No matter what he knows.
That's, part of that thing thathe still hasn't taken from me.

SPEAKER_00 (51:19):
I know, me too.

SPEAKER_01 (51:20):
I have to give it away, but I like it.
Yeah, me too.
And you know what?
Tammy will be mad at me if Istop.
If

SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
you stop dropping F-bombs, she'll be mad.

SPEAKER_01 (51:30):
I know.
Anyways, Mary, you're awesome.
I freaking love it that you'rehere.

SPEAKER_00 (51:34):
That was a good one, Jim.
That was powerful.
Yeah, I

SPEAKER_01 (51:35):
liked that one.
Yeah, that was a good one.

SPEAKER_00 (51:37):
I

SPEAKER_01 (51:37):
liked

SPEAKER_00 (51:37):
it.
And I'm grateful I didn't see...
I'm not

SPEAKER_01 (51:39):
giving a strange baby on a plane a bottle, Rob,
but I'll

SPEAKER_00 (51:42):
do something.
No, you smacked the parrotupside the head.
Hey, the ears need to Give thebaby a bottle before we descend
and it'll help me.
It's easy on the baby.

SPEAKER_01 (51:51):
I don't know.
I'm out of here.
Later.
Thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_00 (51:55):
We hope you learned something today that will help
you.

SPEAKER_01 (51:58):
If you did not, come back next week and we'll try
again.

SPEAKER_00 (52:00):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway.

SPEAKER_01 (52:11):
Thanks, Rob.
Come back next week andhopefully something will be
different and something willsink in.
Take

SPEAKER_00 (52:16):
care.
This has been Recoveryunfiltered.