The Valley We Had to Walk Through Together Changed Everything

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dear Lord, I just ask that you put your hand on us
right now, lord, I just praythat you give us open hearts,
open ears and open minds to takein everything that we all have
to say.
Lord, and I pray that you justwalk with us and you take this
mountain that feels so high andso daunting to climb and that
you just make it a valley.

(00:20):
You make it a valley that wecan walk through and bring
openness and light at the end ofit, because you are light, lord
, and you bring that into ourlife, and I just look forward to
the things that this is goingto do in our life and do in my
dad and I's relationship and Ithank Rob for being a catalyst
for that and I just pray thatyou walk with us through this

(00:43):
time In your name, amen.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Amen, amen.
Let's go to work.
You sit on the toilet, don'tyou Use that as your meditation?

Speaker 3 (00:52):
Not my wife, not your wife, nor anybody listening to
this podcast has eaten a shitsandwich we didn't have a hand
in making.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Welcome to recovery.
I'm Filder, I'm Larry, I'm analcoholic.

Speaker 3 (01:00):
I am Rob.
I am also an alcoholic.
We are not professionals.
There are no letters after ournames.
We know very little.
However, you will hear the wordGod and a four-letter word in
the same sentence.
You will also be offended.
So if you are easily offended,just pass us by this podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Our opinions are just that.
If you don't agree with whatwe're saying, that's okay.
We sit back, grab a beverage ofyour what Sick of it.

Speaker 3 (01:26):
We just I mean, and here's and I agree, that's what
I was getting to we just had abeautiful, heartfelt prayer.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
And followed by sitting on a toilet with shit
sandwiches.
We've got to do something.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
After the one year.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
We've got to come up with something.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
We're getting close to the one year today and I I'm
not gonna promise, but I do wantanother one.
Yeah, before we start season,before we start year number two,
I, I'm I promise, we'll dosomething.
We may just not do anything,just go straight to talking no,
you need something hey that,that voice is my girl you gotta

(02:00):
have a hook.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
You gotta have kind of a hook.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
I know we get something.
I'll start walking through somestuff, but anyways, hey.
So this morning I went pulledinto the Saturday morning
meeting and there wasn't one carin the entire parking lot and
I'm like shit.
I had to look at my phone.
It is Saturday, right, I didn'tmiss anything and I texted
everybody.
It's Freedom Weekend, butthat's all right.

(02:26):
You know what?
One of the?
I got to see mikey this morning.
I hadn't seen mikey in about amonth, so it was great to see
him.
There was only six of us inthere for that perfect meeting.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
It was good it was great.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
You know what and I said this in the meeting today I
don't get to a lot of meetings.
I do two very importantmeetings my saturday morning and
monday right, those are myimportant meetings.
We my Saturday morning andMonday right, those are my
important meetings.
We don't do the serenity prayerin our Monday night meeting.
That's not an AA meeting,that's just a group of guys
hanging out together.
We just pray in and we pray out.

(02:54):
It is just a group of guys.
I hadn't heard the serenityprayer in three weeks.
I didn't realize that andliterally when those six guys
started to say it, I juststopped and listen.
It's just sometimes you forgetthe power of that, of that
serenity prayer.
We take for granted the littlethings that you don't realize,
you miss no no, and it's just, Ihad not been in that meeting

(03:17):
for three weeks and it just itstopped me, but it was good.
Anyways, we are on episode twoor 52, sorry, episode 51.
Yes, sorry, jesus, I'm a littleshaky right now, why?
Well, my daughter number one ishere today.
Oh, number one, we had daughternumber two last week.
We got daughter number one.

(03:38):
Now let me tell you how thisgirl started in this world.
Oh, we've heard this, butrefresh us.
This girl started in this world.
Oh, we've heard this, butrefresh us.
This girl started in this worldon july 17th 1992.
I got that right.
Huh got three pounds, twoounces.
She lived in an incubator foralmost two and a half weeks till
she got big enough to where herand her mom, we can hold her
and take her out.

(03:58):
Three months old she gotdiagnosed with a tumor behind
her eyeball.
This girl's been fighting herentire life, from the day she
came out, and she is still afighter, and, god, I love you,
anyways.
So we're going to walk throughthis and I'm probably going to
mute my mic, just like I didlast week.
I'm going to let Rob do this.

(04:20):
I'm going to answer when I needto and talk when I need to.
If I can Remember, rob and Italked a little bit before.
We made a little live Instagrambefore this, and these are on
Instagram.
Oh, yes, you are, rob.
You've been on Instagram morethan you know.
Brother, you can't copyrightthat ugly face either.
It's one of a kind buddy.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
So it's hard to get it I know.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
So, yeah, we're going to.
I know it's hard to get it andas we finished up 49, I said you
know what 50, 51, and 52 needsto be the family?
Right, let's do the familyafterwards and that's.
You know, it's a chapter in thebook and it is definitely
something that not only is ithealing for me and my daughters
and my wife, because, honestly,we're digging into some stuff

(05:20):
we've never talked about.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Or stuff we don't even remember.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yes, and McKenna stepped on some stuff last week
that honestly came from leftfield and I didn't see it coming
and, um, it got me and I'm sureit's gonna happen again today.
Yeah, and I'm sure it's gonnahappen again when katie comes on
here but you know, the booksays more will be revealed more
will be revealed.
And I mean, I was six monthsalong before I remembered some
other stuff and two years longbefore I remembered some other

(05:45):
stuff.
So it happens right, we, wetend to block some stuff and we
tend to not want to forget, butwe tend to leave stuff out.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Oh shit, well, I've, I've, hey, I've packed a lot of
shit away.
I wanted to forget, right, Ididn't get brought up to my
second set of steps, right.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
So I mean it, it it is what it is.
So, like I said, we're going towork this through and see what
happens.
Miranda.
Hi Hi, my baby, I'm going tolet you go.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Rob.
Well, we're going to startabout just the way we did with
the McKenna.
You go Talk to me.
Childhood, yeah, I mean justrelationship, family, how you
grew, because you are five yearsold or five and a half.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Almost six.
Yeah five and a half, almostsix, um so five years, 11 months
yeah five years 11 months olderthan mckenna.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Um, you know, and that's a lifetime really.
That's a whole different set offriends, that's, you're out of
high school by that time.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
So for sure.
So mckenna, you know, was geez.
I, you know, was inkindergarten.
When my parents had mckenna, Iremember my mom had a schedule
c-section.
My dad had purple scrubs on.
He came out and got me and tookme in there to see her and I
instantly fell in love with herand I was killing it.

(06:52):
As an only child.
I bet All the good stuff inlife and then I had this little
bundle and goodness, I did notknow what I was into with that
girl.
She is hellfire and brimstone,but God she loves big.
She loves so big.
And I'm a mother now myself.

(07:12):
I have three little ones, mybabies.
Yeah, my middle daughter, whois six, is.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
So did you get one of you or did you get a McKenna?

Speaker 1 (07:21):
I got McKenna.
I got McKenna Jr, my middledaughter Claire.
She's six, about three, sevenin August and she, in every
facet, reminds me so much ofMcKenna.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
She just has that fire and she.
So you know how to raise her,you know how to navigate her,
you know what.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
She has all the things that I think I ever wish
I could have been at that ageand growing up and I just pray
that no one ever dims that inher because she is such a light.
She is such a light, she's sucha fire and I just know she's
going to do amazing things.
And just like Kenna you knowshe's McKenna's killing it in
life she's doing amazing stuff.
So I'm very blessed to have her.

(08:00):
I can't imagine going throughthis life without her and having
you know my parents.
It was their plan for me to bean only child.
My mom's delivery with me wasvery traumatic.
Um, my parents lost, had afriend that was only child and
he lost both of his parents inan accident, and they never
wanted me to be alone.
So they gave me mckenna and itwas probably the best gift gift

(08:21):
they could have ever given me.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
So I didn't hear that .
I never heard that part.
I never heard that part.
That's good.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Yeah, I've talked about that in a meeting that you
know we had Miranda and youknow we.
But we weren't, because we wereso scared after Miranda was
born that we went through someshit, you know, till about five
or six months, you not knowingwe were just it was scary, yeah.
So we, me and katie were likenope, we ain't doing this shit

(08:49):
again.
But, like miranda said, aboutyear four and a half we were
like you know what this happenedto this couple.
We don't want to leave mirandaalone.
You know something happened.
So she went ahead and let me goahead and put a seat in her.
And there we went, jesus Christ.

Speaker 3 (09:08):
Well, that's how it happens.
I'm sure you know by now Idon't.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I don't know how it happens.
It just happened three timesand it's a miracle.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
Sorry, Katie, I just that one came out, but anyways
yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Eric slips on a bar of swear and I get pregnant.
I had to get my tubes tied.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I was like I just know it'll happen again that
hispanic love bud anyways, okay,so now yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
so growing up, um, you know my dad, we were super,
super involved with the church.
My dad was a deacon at thechurch.
He he ran Bible study.
Our home, our front door, wasalways open for people coming in
and out of it that needed helpor just needed dinner or needed
refuge.
And you know, our home alwaysfelt so light and bright and we

(10:00):
went to church every Sunday.
We were involved in a verysmall church.
We were very intertwined withthe pastor's life as well, and
you know that was a hugefoundation for me growing up.
That really changed, probably.
I was about 10 years old whenour pastor left the church, and
not that we fell away, but wewere definitely like, not as

(10:22):
involved.
You shared that with us too.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, that's when I mean, were definitely like, not
not as involved.
You shared that with us too.
Yeah, that's when I mean thatonce again.
That's where I was putting myfaith in him and not in God.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Right.
I, he, I was following, youknow yeah, we were following
pastor, right, I mean we didn't,I didn't realize.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
To another I still have a hard time listening to
other pastors I do, but anyways,yeah, it was hard.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
He was amazing.
I mean he was very much like afather figure, like a
grandfather figure.
I mean, if we miss a Sunday ofchurch, it was guaranteed by one
o'clock.
He was knocking on the door andwas like where are you guys at?

(11:11):
Is everything okay?
We're like, we're so sorry,pastor, we're just sleeping in
this morning, yeah.
But yeah, let me know, right.
Yeah, I just remember our homebeing open door, like people
coming for dinner.
My dad was driving truck atthat time still too, and he was
working in dispatch.
And a good sunday for me waswhen my dad had to go, uh, pull
a load, and he would be like,hey, you want to go?
And I'd be like, yeah, okay,and we'd you know, he was still
big layer at that time and we'dget in the car or get in the
truck and we'd go and I'd ridearound with him dropping off

(11:33):
loads and talking on the CB.
Talking on, oh my gosh, cb wasso cool.
I'll never forget seen my dadmore proud than when I ate my
first double bacon cheeseburgerfrom Jack in the Box.
Oh my gosh, he had toldeverybody about it for like days

(11:54):
.
She just ate a whole doublebacon cheeseburger.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
I was like, oh yes, I did.
You know, it's funny.
She says that we picked it upat the Patterson Jack in the Box
leaving.
I've dropped off a load inCentennial, headed back to
Stockton, stockton rack to getanother load, and we stopped at
Patterson.
I dropped off a load insentinel ahead of back to
Stockton, stockton rack to getanother load, and we stopped at
Patterson.
I always stopped at that one.
I had great truck parking, so Iremember that.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
So yeah, but that was .
And then you know, when we kindof fall away from the church a
little bit, um, that's aboutwhen you were 10, you said yeah.
I was about 10 and you know welife just kept moving.
You know we kept moving and mydad had his weight loss surgery.
Um, oh, actually to backtrack alittle bit to, uh, no, I'm so

(12:33):
sorry we moved out.
we moved out of the house thatwe, that I was raised in, really
, um, we sold that house and welived with my grandparents for a
little bit before we boughtanother house Right after my dad
had had his gasser bypass.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Which was in 07.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah, so that I mean that was a pretty big transition
time for me.
I was a freshman in high school.
Okay, yeah, so it was Anysports.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
McKenna did basketball.
Yeah, I cheered, I cheered, youcheered.
Yeah, all the way through.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I cheered from about first grade all the way up
to senior year.
What?

Speaker 3 (13:06):
high school.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
We went to Waterford, yeah, so we went to Waterford
High School, went to HickmanElementary.
Yeah, my dad was very, veryinvolved.
He was, you know, very much Iwas coaching at the high school.
Yeah, and he was coaching at thehigh school.
That was like a normal day forus.

(13:28):
He would pick us up from school, we would go to football
practice with him, my sister andI would be on the sidelines
doing cartwheels down thesideline.
You know, that was just, thatwas normal for us.
And and when you know, we movedinto that house, which is funny
enough because my husband and Iour first house that we bought
is exactly across the streetfrom the house that we lost.
Really, yes, out there, uh, no,um, over in in town.
That's our second house that welive in now.
Um, our rental property now is,uh, across the street from the

(13:49):
house, and when we were going tobuy it, my parents were like,
please don't buy that house,please don't buy that house,
because they were just sotainted by that road bad
memories yeah what's that?

Speaker 3 (14:00):
is that odd, or god?

Speaker 2 (14:01):
oh, it was, god for sure it's.
I mean that that was, that wasa lot of trauma that, honestly,
I'd never even once again,miranda brought some stuff up.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, I was looking at, that was yeah, it was some
trauma.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
That's all right.
Yeah, I mean it's.
It was definitely like learningthings for us.
You know, losing, losing thehouse for kenna and I.
That was like kenna and I think.
I was raised on Heather, whichwas our first street that we
sold, and lived with mygrandparents, and McKenna feels
like she was raised in Goldmine.
I was raised in Heather but allmy friends lived on Goldmine,

(14:35):
so when I was a freshman in highschool, all of my friends lived
in that area.
That was the house that I wasliving in.
When I met my husband, you know, he would roll up in his dad's
little beat down work truck andwould show up in front of the
house and my dad would be likeeric, what are you doing?
it's the middle and I get out ofhere like so his hat on
backwards his curly hair and nodriver's license no, he was like

(14:59):
14 or 15 at the time, so that'skilling it.
Yeah, get away with that shit Iknow he wasn't going very far,
but you know that that househeld so much memory for kenna
and I that your friends ourfriends and you know it was a
lot of turmoil.
We could feel it, kenna and Icould feel it, and you know it
was sad for all of us.
But I think, starting reallystarting from there and moving

(15:24):
forward, I just think it was alot of spiritual warfare that
our family was really goingthrough and that was just like
the kickoff of it.
And you know, as the years wenton and you know you start
working on things and you startbecoming, you go from a child to
a teenager.
Those are really confusingtimes and you know, I I lacked a

(15:47):
lot of self-confidence and Iwas just always trying to find
that in other parts of my life.
And you know, Eric and I we gottogether when we were juniors
in high school and I very muchwas trying to find my confidence
in him.
And you know, we found eachother at a very young age and we
loved really big for reallyyoung people and with that you

(16:12):
grow and I am very much my dad.
I wear my emotions on my sleeve.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
True fact.
But you and McKenna, you'reboth like your dad, but in
different ways.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yes, she got my heart and she got her mama's looks.
Trust me, they're bothbeautiful.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
I'm glad they got their mother's.
Looks, you ain't lying yeah, soI mean but she also got your.
Let's go.
Yep, get down nose the groundsoon, let's just you know, don't
wait around McKenna got thesame.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
Both my daughters got me and Katie are both the work
ethic comes from both of us,because these two work their
asses off both of them.
They're fucking.
Amazing is what they are.
Katie and I has never missed aday of work and never been
unemployed, thank you, lordright.
So these girls have learnedfrom the very beginning work

(17:00):
comes first, no matter what, andyou ain't handed a fucking
thing in life.
If you're gonna get it, youbetter go earn it.
So anyways yeah, um.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
So high school, you know eric and I were together,
the more so end of our juniorgoing into senior year what year
did you graduate?
we graduated in 2010.
Um, my, our senior year was theonly year that my dad did not
coach football.
High school, it was the onlyyear.
Yeah, really, mm-hmm.
Yeah, because remember that onenight that Eric brought all the

(17:33):
guys over here to watch haveyou Do Film with them, but, yeah
, that was the only year that mydad didn't coach.
So, yeah, like I said, you know, I'm very much an emotional
person.
I wear my heart on my sleeve,very much so, and I have to like

(17:55):
talk about things, to get pastthem and to work through it.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
That's him.
It's a thousand percent yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
If I'm not talking about it.
There's something.

Speaker 3 (18:04):
I'm always talking to myself, but then I do this to,
unfortunately, so I do this yeah, I say, I say nobody's got to
punish me, because nobodypunishes me harder than you
lying there, that's right, thatis, yeah, 100 her daddy yeah, we
are harder on ourselves thananybody for sure.
Ridiculous, but we do it forsure.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
so I mean, when you have a love that big at that
young of an age, you're going togo through it and you have to
grow together and you grow apart.
And I like to say, eric and Ihad three stages of our
relationship.
We had our high school stage,our party stage and then the
stage that we're in now.
So my parents obviously had towatch all of that.
So the highs, the lows, thebeautiful, the ugly.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
And here we are with what?

Speaker 2 (18:48):
would have number three on the picture oh yeah,
you know oh yeah, I stole thatout of their house but the
strength, but when you dosurvive.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
That yeah as you have .
The strength that comes fromthat, for sure, is amazing, yeah
, whether, whether that's whatfamily's for yeah you're gonna I
mean there's gonna be timesyou're at each other's throat.
It just is and they will.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
You know that for sure, and uh, yeah, so in the,
you know, in the middle of allthat, and life was just moving,
you know so you're 31 or 2 I'm32.
I'm about to be 33 in july oh33, yeah, lord help me, um, so
yeah, and I would say, growingup, you know, in that period of
time.

(19:25):
You know, just keep time framemoving what did you think of his
drinking?

Speaker 3 (19:31):
I mean, you're going through high school.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
I'm gonna back up just a minute because she, she
brought up a point that, really,honestly, I'd kind of forgotten
about the timeline.
My first drink was after mygastric bypass with the neighbor
.
With the neighbor that was ingold mine was in 2007, basically
across the street, almost sixmonths after your surgery, after

(19:52):
my surgery, yeah, and then youknow that's more.
There's more to the story thanjust I'm not going into it, but
it's just that timeline.
That's and I've said thisbefore that that's when I felt
like my drinking really gotstarted and miranda nailed it
without even me talking aboutthe gastric bypass

Speaker 1 (20:10):
stuff before.
Yeah, anyways, yeah.
So, um, timeline wise, hisdrinking.
It's super interesting to melistening to like mckenna's
episode and just I think Iforget our age difference and
how aware we are of those thingsin between, because, you know,
mckenna recognizes my dad'sdrinking really not getting bad

(20:32):
until like 2020 and I I track itback to like 2014.
Um, I think really, what setoff truly some really
unfortunate events in our familywas our dog drowning in the
backyard in the pool.
Um, it was after a footballgame.
Our dog, my dad's dog it was.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
You know it was is this the, uh, the dachshund?

Speaker 1 (20:57):
yeah, my dad's dog, uh, broke his back, and he had
oh my gosh, I can't.
I can't even tell you how muchmoney they had spent to get this
dog fixed, oh my goodness.
He was an amazing dog, though,and so he was in wheels and it
was pretty normal practice forum for the coaches to come over
here after a game.
They would sit in the backyardand they would drink and they

(21:19):
would until they all got tiredand then they would go home.
Well, rowdy had only been homefor maybe about a month and he
was in wheels and because hisback was broken, his back legs
didn't work anymore and my dadand them, they came inside and
Rowdy had been outside of my dadand my dad came in and walked
the coaches out outside and hecame back inside and he's like

(21:41):
where's Rowdy?
And we were like what?
And I went running out the backdoor and rowdy was at the
bottom of the pool and thewheels and because the wheels
didn't float and the wheels justdrug him down and, uh, it was
just havoc ensued.
After that, um, my dad dove inthe pool.
He had his phone in his pocket.
They pulled the dog out of thepool.
Um, I was doing cpr on the dog,doing everything I can to save

(22:04):
this dog, and it was justpandemonium around me.
My, how old were you?
I was doing cpr on the dog,doing everything I can to save
this dog, and it was justpandemonium around me, my how
old were you?
I was, that was 2014, so I was20, okay, yeah, so in nursing
school or yeah, I was um inthat's where the cpr comes in
yeah, I was in the middle ofnursing school actually and I'm
doing cpr on this dog and tryingto bring this dog back, and my
sister is right here, she'slosing her mind 15 years old.

(22:27):
Yes, sorry, mckenna.
She's like losing her mind, mydad's over here losing his mind.
My mom is like pacing aroundand whenever anything happens
like that, I just go into likefix it mode, like I just have to
fix it.
No-transcript.

(23:11):
Yeah, it was a lot, um.
But uh, a week later I foundout I was pregnant with my son.
So, yeah, I was actually have.
I was actually, yeah, thethat's where the rage came from
is I didn't know I was pregnant,so sorry.
And Cain while he is anabsolutely amazing blessing in

(23:34):
my life and he saved my life, mypregnancy with Cain was
definitely not met withexcitement.
Eric and I Is Eric the same age?
He's 20?
Yeah, eric and I.

Speaker 3 (23:46):
Is Eric the same age 20?
He's 20?
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Eric and I are the same age, we were 20.
But Eric was in Kentucky goingto school, so he was not here.
So I found out I was pregnantwith Kane and it was just.
It was a very confusing timeand it just really set in motion
.
It was a very confusing timeand it just really set in motion
, probably about a good year anda half, of just real highs,

(24:10):
real lows, and unfortunately,you know, my parents had to be
front row seat for all of thatand I know that that's that's
difficult to watch your daughtergo through changes in her body
and then have a baby.

(24:30):
Then I really struggled withpostpartum depression after I
had cane.
It was really bad, uh, to thepoint, my parents would have to
come up and check on me in themiddle of the night to make sure
that I was okay and I was justdoing everything that I could to
survive at that time and that'sreally difficult.
And as a mom now, Talk to meabout that.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Your perspective.
20 years old yeah, all thisgoing on.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, I was 21 when I ended up having my son Now
you're a seasoned mother.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yeah, talk to me about that.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
I was 21 when I ended up having my son and you know,
eric was set to go back toschool.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
What was he doing in Kentucky?

Speaker 1 (25:06):
He was wrestling in Kentucky.
My husband is a collegiatewrestler All-American but yeah,
he was going to school out thereand when we found out I was
pregnant with my son, I had youknow, I was here, he was there
majority of the time mypregnancy with Kane and then he
came back in April.
We had our son in May and itwas a lot, you know.

(25:29):
We were two kids that had noplace having a baby, um, and we
were just trying to navigatethat, navigate life.
And then you add postpartumdepression on top of that and it
was.
It was a lot to navigate and itwas very, very difficult.
And, yeah, I was in a very,very dark time and my parents

(25:52):
were literally driving me totherapy to get help because I
was just a shell of the personwho I am.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
no, uh larry, I've never heard.
I mean you, we've talked aboutyou, but I've never heard this
time frame.
No, larry, I've never heard.
I mean, we've talked about you,but I've never heard this time
frame.
Timeline a little bit.
Where were you at this time,unfiltered?
Yeah, I was drinking.
Okay, yeah, that's how Iescaped and, miranda, what time

(26:25):
You're 20,.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
So what year?
I was 21 now now.
So what age?

Speaker 3 (26:27):
this is 2011 uh, this is no, I wish oh, no, 20, no,
this is 2015, so I had my son in2015 okay, so we've yeah, okay,
yeah, so she's, she's right.
Uh-huh, I'm not saying somebodyelse is wrong, I'm just saying
her timeline and you're drinking.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
I mean how I know?
Yeah, I mean yeah.
So this was 2015 and I uh, youknow, and it was a rough year,
it was keep going.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, I thought I haven't played.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
She you did.
Miranda plugged it in.
Oh, I'm so sorry, I can't workwith this.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
I'm so sorry um, yeah , so that was 2015.
Um, and the next year was, youknow, was pretty rough.
We were just trying to figureout life and, you know, sort
some stuff out, what I look backon probably the hardest time of
my life.

(27:18):
I know that I had to walkthrough to get me where I was
now and without that, I meanEric and I wouldn't be where
we're at now.
We have an absolutely amazinglife.
We have an amazing marriage, wehave three beautiful kids, we
have a thriving business.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
A new home.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
A new home, a dream home.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
It's not just a home, it's a ranch.
I know it's a beautiful place.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, we have our dream home, a ranch.
Yeah, I mean, it's a beautifulplace.
Yeah, we have our dream homeand, uh, we, we wouldn't have
been able to be where we're atnow, spiritually, emotionally,
without, without that, and so,even though it seemed hard at
that time, I'm very thankful andit was hard.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
It didn't just seem that way, it was hard oh god,
yeah it was.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
It was hard.
It was super, super hard andfor me, I don't love sitting in
those periods of time, I don'teven like dwelling on them,
because I am a sponge.
I'm an empathetic sponge.
I will get back into thatemotion and I'll sit there for
the next two weeks and just beatmyself up about all the things
that I could have done different.
Yeah, and I know that's nottherapeutic and I know that's

(28:21):
not.
That does nothing for me.
That's why, um you know, I andthe only reason.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Your experience is now to help the next woman
that's getting ready to gothrough that.
You can help guide if they'lllisten.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, and the only reason I go back to that is
because, you know, again, my dadsays you know he was drinking
really heavily during that timeand, um, I know he was probably
just trying to cope.
I can't imagine watching mydaughter, I just imagine Claire,
go walk through that and walkthrough such a valley that you

(28:51):
can't pull them out ofregardless of as much as you
want to fix it as much as youwant to fix it, as much as you
want to take that pain away, youcan't do it, the heartbreak and
the you know the pain.
I know that that was probablyvery difficult for them to watch
.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
When did it start getting better for you?
When did that kind of darkperiod start getting some light?

Speaker 1 (29:11):
So I had to do a lot of therapy and God bless my
therapist.
She was absolutely amazing.
I was going I started going totherapy twice a week and then it
went to once a week and then Isaw her for seven years
consecutively.
She did so much work in my life.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
She was absolutely amazing, um is she a believer or
just a therapist?
You know?

Speaker 1 (29:33):
no, she's a believer.
Yeah, and she, she had her ownwalk and she helped.
Amen, yeah, she had helpedquite a bit and I can still.
I don't see her regularlyanymore, but I know that if I
was to pick up my phone rightnow and call her, she would
immediately call me back.
She, like she's and she'salways rooted for the positive,
like she always rooted for youknow what was going to be best

(29:54):
for me and she was going to helpme navigate those situations.
Um, but, yeah, that it reallygot better.
Probably I really started tocome come around Cain's birthday
because we started to see somepositive light.
I the only thing that I canever contribute it to is, like
you know, when they say Godchased the one to bring it back

(30:16):
to the 99 he.
I was running so hard from him.
I was so mad.
I said I was like God, like youknow, I had this vision of a
perfect family in my mind and,like you didn't give that to me
and I should have been met withlike happiness and love at this
moment in time.
And I was met with so muchheartache, like why would you do
this to me?
I was so mad.

(30:36):
Eric had started going tocelebrate Recovery, to work on
some anchor stuff, good and wewere having to go to this
co-parenting therapy.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
Did he start coming to school out here?
Did he stay in Kentucky?

Speaker 1 (30:54):
He was back here now.
After some stuff had happened,he came back and he was going to
Celebrate Recovery, to work onsome anchor stuff and he had
invited me.
He was like do you want to gowith me?
while you're running from god Iwas running and I was like and
we weren't together at the timeand you know, we were just

(31:14):
trying to live life and, youknow, move forward and he was
like, you know, do you want togo with me?
And I was, was like, I guess,yeah, like I'll, I'll go.
And they had this group for, uh, codependency and I was like
shit, I don't know, that soundslike maybe, maybe I'm
codependent, so I started goingto that.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
And how'd that work out?

Speaker 1 (31:40):
You know it was.
I will only I cannot giveenough credit to that program
because it was what I needed.
At that moment in time, betweenthe therapy and going to the
structure of Celebrate Recovery,and like going and hearing
people's stories that how Godwas moving in their life, I was

(32:01):
like I need that, Like I wantthat.
And then Eric and I startedfocusing on each other and
started focusing on our familyand, just you know, we were like
, okay, we're going to, we'regoing to do this, Like we're
going to give this the best shotpossible.
And it wasn't an option.
Like we looked at each otherand we were like, if we're going
to do this, we're going to dothis for our son and we're not

(32:22):
do back and forth and we're notgonna be up and down, we're
gonna be solid.
And we vowed that to each otherand we stopped listening with
god in the middle of god, in themiddle of it and we stopped
listening to everybody around usand what they thought was best
and just focused on what godthought was best for us and we
went in head first and thank godwe did, because look at us now

(32:44):
you know, we're.
We just keep moving in theright direction, and three bars
of soap later yeah, somethinglike that.
Um, but yeah.
So, and even though those timeswere so hard, we we got back
together and we've been superstrong ever since so when did
you jitsu start up with eric?

(33:05):
so eric, after he came back fromcollege.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
I always thought until, like when we were doing
the same, we were doing thedirty.
I got to go to your guys's newhouse and talk to him and I saw
that you know the usa tattoo onthe back of the wrestling, which
is wrestlers, that's notjiu-jitsu, people, that's yeah
dude you're a wrestler.
So when did jiu-jitsu start?

Speaker 1 (33:20):
yeah.
So after um he came back fromwrestling, you know, he kind of.
We went a few years without himhaving an outlet and he's so
competitive and he's somethodical in the way that he
thinks and the way that he movesis so he is just grace in a
person like I can't explain himany better.

(33:41):
The way he moves is soconfident, without being
egotistical and without beingoverbearing.
He just moves with there's noother word than grace.
And he needed an outlet and hewas looking into competition and
these things that he could doand his brother started his

(34:04):
older brother, caesar, hasstarted jujitsu.
Eric was like I'll go try it,and at first he was just kind of
like this isn't my thing, likeyou know and he went a little
bit and we went a year and hewas just craving competition, he
needed something.
And so then he really dove intojujitsu.
And he was just cravingcompetition, he needed something
.
And so then he really dove intojujitsu and he started going to
a local jujitsu academy andjust kind of ran from there and

(34:26):
he really fell in love with itand it seemed really quickly he
went from it was just like ahobby to it was full force.
His head was in it.
He was moving forward and Ithink what really propelled him
even more forward was back in2021, we lost one of our really

(34:48):
good friends during COVID.
He was very young.
Tori was not just a huge partof our life, but he was a huge
part of my dad's life too.
He's one of my dad's footballplayers huge part of our life,
but he was a huge part of mydad's life too.
He's one of my dad's footballplayers, and tori was god.
He was the glue.
Uh.
Tori was every piece of joy youcould fit in one person.

(35:09):
He was so jovial, his facewould just light up.
He could.
He had the best laugh.
He would just bring every piece.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
What happened?

Speaker 1 (35:22):
He got COVID and he was at home and his oxygen
saturations were dropping, andso they called 911 and they took
him to a local hospital.
This local hospital was so notequipped for all the other
things that Tori may have hadgoing on with him as well.
Tori, he was overweight, and heended up having a heart attack

(35:47):
and dying, and it shook all ofus very much to the core.
It was very, very rough.
It was very, very rough, andthat was in November of 2021
that Tori died.
No August.
I'm sorry.

(36:08):
It was August of 2021 that Toridied and I think after that,
eric just really took intoperspective what was important
in his life and he was teachingat the time and while he loved
teaching, he had been doing itfor a while and he just had this
dream to open a jiu-jitsuacademy.

(36:30):
And he was kind of just likebouncing it around for a long
time.
And when we got Tori's cellphone back, we were all going
through it and Tori wasliterally texting commercial
property owners in his hospitalbed, attempting to find Eric a
place to open this academy whilehe's in this hospital bed,

(36:52):
thinking of Eric in the nextmove to help Eric fulfill this
dream.
And I think that just propelledEric forward to make a dream a
reality.
And his dream was to put it inthis old pharmacy in town.
And you know, he looked at meand he was like, hey, I think
I'm going to do this.
And I said let's do it.
And we opened it.

(37:14):
Just, you know, on our wing, ina prayer, we put money into it
and we prayed over it and wesaid you know, lord, just do
your will with us, what you want.
And the day we did pre-signups,we had a line around the door,
a line all the way around theblock for people to sign up, and

(37:35):
it has been truly amazing to meto watch what the academy has
done, not only for our communitybut for my husband.
Uh, we are, you know.
I will say one thing, do they?

Speaker 3 (37:47):
still do the sunday.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Uh, prayer and prayer roll, so we do sunday school of
wrestling and no it that willstart back up in the summer.
Yeah, but we do sunday schoolof wrestling.
I just started I.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
I got to do that.
He told me about it a whileback, but I still got the hip
done, so I couldn't you know.
But now that I'm on the mat,but you know what?

Speaker 1 (38:03):
I'll tell you this my dad's walk into sobriety and my
dad going and getting sober wasreally the catapult for Eric
and I to really dive deep intoour faith.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
we're going to get onto that, yeah, so sorry, I
feel like we're on a rabbit holea little bit.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
No, we're good.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
No, yeah, we're right where I wanted to be Cause it
was actually fun to listen tothat, but honestly, that's why
because there's because you weretalking about 2021 when Eric
you know, was your friend.
Yeah, but however, cause Ididn't his drinking and it's and
nobody's wrong.
It's all just about perspective, like when you read the bible,
you got matthew, mark and luke,you got, you know the three

(38:39):
synoptic gospels.
Right, talk about the same man.
You know from differentperspectives, different
perspectives.
So I did not know that we triedto get him, or you're for the
family, but I say we the family,because 2020 I was going
through cancer, that's 2021, Iwas just, when you know, sucked
yeah it all sucked.
Well, I shouldn't say it wasgreat because, like you said,
the the battles you went through, yeah, look where you sat now.

(39:00):
Yeah the strength we get fromthat.
I went through a lot of youknow those battles yeah wow.
But you try to get him in tohelp in 2020 yeah, so actually
no um october 2020 so I wasactually 2021 those are the
mainers.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Happened about the same time then, so the first
actually going back to tori,passing, I, you know my dad, my
dad is my dad, my dad it's loud,my dad is voiceless.
My dad, he says off the wallshit and it's just larry.
Like, yeah, he is who he is,you know like drunk or sober,
baby, it don't matter it's.

(39:34):
He's always been like that andyou know it is.
It is what it is.
But when Tori died we were allin the front yard of my in-laws
house.
My in-laws live on a reallybusy town, a busy road in town,
and you can always find us.
And there was a ton of us justcongregated in the front yard of
my in-laws house and my dadcame rolling up in his truck

(39:55):
just drunk off his ass, and mybrother-in-law, who's a year
younger than my husband, is.
He's very meticulous, he's very.
He's a very clean OCD, verykeeps, keeps his stuff very nice
.
Uh, my dad came rolling up,drunker than hell, bust into the
front of my brother-in-law'struck and one time yeah, and I

(40:18):
was not there at the time.
I came back and he was like hey,your dad was just here and your
dad ran into the front of mytruck and I was like what?
And he was like I think he wasdrunk.
And I was like, no, no, I don't, I don't think so, I don't
think so.
No, yes, he probably, heprobably was drunk.
Um, but, yeah, me and eric.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
So is this eric's younger brother yes, yeah, and
so you know.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
And then I was like I'm calling my mom and I'm like
mom, is dad like out and about,like what is going on?
Like he just came over here andran into the front of edgar's
truck and I was like, oh fuck,all right, well, tell him, I'll
do it, I'll take care of it,like we'll deal with it.
I was like, okay, so there wasthat.
And you know we're all in themiddle of mourning and this
happens and you know we justhave to.

(41:05):
You know I'm like, oh no, edgar, I don't think he was drunk.
You know what I mean.
Like always covering for my dadand always.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
You know those kind of things and McKenna kind of
had the same thing from herpicture.
We'll get through thisEverything's alright.
But she's in her early 20s, soshe's doing the early 20s just
living life For sure.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
And I think too, what kind of opened Eric and I's
eyes a little bit more thatthere was like a real big
problem Eric and I had justhelped.
Eric and I had a friend thatlived with us for 75 days and we
got him sober and got him torehab and that was talk about a
test of your relationship.

(41:45):
It was a definite test.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
Especially having him in the house.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yeah, you know what we had.
Just it was crazy.
And I think Eric had lived withhim for a little while and I
was when they were younger, intheir party stage Eric had lived
with while and I was when theywere younger, in their party
stage Eric had lived with himand I was we hadn't seen him in
a very long time.
I won't say his name because Ijust I don't think it's
necessary, but uh, we he had.
I was driving through town oneday and I went, I was going home

(42:10):
, and I went past and there wassomebody standing on the side of
the road and I was like whatthe heck?
So I turned around, went backand sat in, sat in the Walmart,
in the Taco Bell parking lot fora little while and I was like,
oh my God, that is him.
And I called Eric and I was like, hey, you know, so-and-so is
over here and he looks like crap.
He's lost like 50 pounds, helooks terrible.

(42:32):
And we had not seen him in likea year and a half.
And Eric was like, well, Ican't go over there, I'm in the
middle of something right now.
So I called my dad and I waslike, hey, I don't want to
approach him because I don'tknow like what kind of headspace
he's in right now.
So my dad came down there and Iwas here at the house and eric
came over here to meet me.
Next thing I know I've heardthis one yeah, next thing I know

(42:52):
, here comes larry walking inthe door with this kid and my
dad coached this kid yeah, andmy dad had his great guy yeah,
amazing kid he had his backpacklike all strewn out on the front
porch, had like gone througheverything because he didn't
want him bringing any anythinginto the house.
And you know, we thought we werejust going to give him a shower
and dinner and send him on hisway.
And 75 days later, uh, eric andI were able to keep him sober,

(43:17):
able to get him to meetings,able to get him to meetings,
able to get him to methadoneclinic.
I don't know if you reallyconsider that sober, but we were
able to keep him off ofanything off the street.
For that, long.
Yeah, we were able to get his VAbenefits activated with some
help from other people in thecommunity and, um, you know we
made that commitment to get himto rehab and we did it.

(43:38):
You know he stayed for 60 days.
It was supposed to be a 90 dayprogram.
He stayed for 60.
And unfortunately, he told us,the building got COVID and so
they put him all in a hotel andyou know he just went right back
into that fight and you know,and recently lost him.
Yeah, he's recently lost hisfight with his addiction.

(44:00):
But you know, sorry, I thinkthat taught Eric and I a lot and
that prepared us for what wasabout to happen with my dad.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
We see this in hindsight how God kind of works,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yeah, so Eric, not that Eric and I were a little
hardened, but we were a littlebit more prepared for what we
were about to go through with mydad.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
You need to get be hardened a little bit because,
if too much emotion, you'll lovethem to death.
You put too many pillows undertheir ass.
You need to be hardened alittle bit to take action when
action needs to be fucking taken.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Yeah honest so yeah, for sure, um, and we dropped him
off.
I think that was like february.
We dropped him off at his rehabclinic and so that'd be
february 2022 that was 2021 okayyeah, so then I'm mckenna
talked about in her episode whenwe went to disneyland.
Yeah and uh, when we went todisneyland, that was end of July

(44:56):
and my dad and everybody hadjust gotten COVID, we took the
kids to.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
This is the B12 shot.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yeah, so this is the B12 shot.
And when all this happened andwe were in Disneyland and my mom
was getting all these calls, mymom was getting all these calls
from McKenna and Patrick Dude.
My dad is just losing it.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
And you're down in.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah we're down in Anaheim and disneyland.
We're literally standing inline.
I'll never forget which ride forthe peter pan ride, dude, of
course, like one of the longestlines too.
Mom's like, and my dad's like.
My sister was like he's justfucking losing his mind, like he
is just speaking gibberish.
He's like not making any sense.
And my mom's like well, I don'tknow what to do, like what I

(45:34):
don't know.
My mom's looking at me.
She's like so stressed she'slike should I go home?
I'm like no, like he's a grownman, like he's gonna be fine,
like it's gonna be okay, we'lldeal with it when we get home.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
Peter Pan honey literally Peter Pan.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
So we get home from Disneyland and Eric and I had a
flood in our kitchen and so ourwhole kitchen flooded and they
had to rip out all of ourcabinets.
This was a few weeks after wegot back from Disneyland and my
dad was still just like not in agood way, like I don't know
something in COVID just flippeda switch in his brain and he was

(46:10):
for lack of a better word veryoff his record.
He was very unpredictable, likeyou didn't know what he was
going to say.
You didn't know what he wasgoing to do.
He was just on edge all thetime Drinking will do that.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
I was very angry.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah, very fucking angry.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So I was limiting the amount of time my kids were
over here.
I was trying to protect themfrom the situation.
And my mom and I were havingfrequent conversations and there
was some people at our house.
They were working on taking outthe old cabinets and that kind
of stuff.
And I was at work and I get acall from Eric and he's like hey

(46:45):
, your dad just called me and hesaid he's coming over here.
I was like for what?
And he was like he says hewants to wrestle and I was like
for what?
He was like's drunk yeah, he waslike I have no idea and so we
had cameras that like overlookedour front yard and I was like
watching the cameras, watchingthe cameras, and I like see him
pull up and he like pulls up allfecocked like in front of the

(47:08):
driveway and like gets out andhe just like walks into the
front yard and I see eric comeout of the front door and my
dad's like all right, let's go.
And these two just start goingat it in the front yard just
wrestling.
My dad's like like wrestling.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
He had to take it easy on you.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
No, Eric was whooping his ass.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
I know, but you still got to take it easy.
Yes, because I grapple now with, even though I'm old, with the
younger kid, the 20-somethingyear olds, that they don't know
how to wrestle, they're learningJiu Jitsu than me.
If you don't take it easy, youcan hurt somebody, the older
guys or I can hurt you know.
So Eric, with experience, couldhave hurt Larry, so he, even
though he was whooping on him,he could have for sure but
there's all these workers, hey,but I'm proud of you, buddy get

(47:49):
your ass over there and getafter it around the front yard
like watching.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Yeah, like, why is eric?
Being up on this guys beingthere yeah and like they're like
watching eric and I'm watchingit from the camera.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Remember this.
What were you thinking?
I was angry just want tograpple I was fucking angry.

Speaker 2 (48:05):
The last, probably last year, I was an angry
individual, yeah, for whateverreason.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
After covid, I was just fucking angry and I said,
and I was for me, because whencovid started was in march of
2020, so kind of you knowfebruary, march, when it really,
when we know the when it firstkind of came out.
Then my boss died I get died.
My grandmother died, 99, I getdiagnosed with cancer.
Yeah, so then, but I know, butcovid went all into 2021.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
It was also so yeah so they're grappling yeah so I'm
watching it in the cameras andI'm like what?
In the world is going and I'mlike calling my mom and my mom's
.
You know she's just like.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
I don't know Like we're so just she's just glad
he's out of the house.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Oh my God, at that time, we were just living, it
was just day to day.
We were just living.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Mechanic.
I described the same time.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
We were just.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Just yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
To me at this point.
My dad was just so anunreliable figure for me at that
moment in time Like I could nottrust him to watch the kids.
I couldn't even leave the kidshere for like five minutes, I
could never even.
I never knew if he was drunk orsober Like I never knew, and it
was just very limited exposureat that moment in time.
Eric and I had our own life.
We had our kids we only had thetwo at the time and we were.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Just when was baby girl born?

Speaker 1 (49:20):
uh, so everly our third.
She wasn't born until 2023 okayyeah, everly's only known as
sober papa, so um no where's.

Speaker 3 (49:28):
When was number two born?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
uh, claire was born in 2018.
Okay, yeah, so claire.
Uh, yeah, 2018 she was born.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
So they're grappling on the front, so they're
grappling on the front yard.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
They're grappling in the front yard and he like it
was so crazy.
It was like he comes over, getshis butt kicked a little bit
and then he just gets back inhis truck and leaves.
Eric calls me and Eric was likethat was so weird.
I was like what do you say atthat point?
I'm like, hey, thanks forkicking his ass, I guess like I

(50:01):
guess that's what he needed, Idon't know.
So that was about uh mid augustof 2021.
Yeah, 2021 okay, so I thoughttory passed in august 2021.
Uh, I don't know that entirethree years.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Last three years is a blur.
I was trying.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
I was talking to my mom.
I'm sorry, can we?
We can cut some of this out,right, I was talking was talking
to my mom earlier.
I'm trying to like get I getlost in like the timeframe of
things, because it was all itwas like nine months of just
hell.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Rob, I will tell you, it was like nine months of just
From our conversations.
The first attempt at Maynard's,I thought well, when you and I
talked, it was 2020 of.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
October.
No, we're going to get in.
Rob and I had a phone call theother day.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Oh yeah, Never mind.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
Yeah, I needed to work through some of this.
So, just timeline wise, we werein Disneyland in the end of
July, yeah, and then our houseended up flooding, so this was
August.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Oh, my gosh, Tori, died at the beginning of
September.
Okay, yes, so we're inDisneyland in July, august, the
whole wrestling thing happens.
Yeah, because our house floodedRight Tori dies in September.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Wow, yes, this is a roller coaster, it's a roller
coaster.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
It was 2021.
It was a rough year.
So then Tori dies in thebeginning of September.
September, his august, hisfuneral is september 25th, so
and that I mean that was roughand you know, and uh, it was
never easy, but yeah, and then,so september, that's the end of
september, and you know it'sprobably october.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Okay, so october.
Yeah, that's where they weretrying to get him.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
So october, the beginning of october 2021.
He was still, you know, verymuch angry, very much going
through the motions.
And there was a day he was hereat home working and I get a
call from my mom and my mom'slike, hey, have you talked to
your dad?
And I'm like no, why.
And she's like, well, I've beentrying to get ahold of him and

(51:56):
I can't get a hold of him.
And we all knew he was in sucha bad way and you know we were.
We live out here in the country.
There's guns in our house, wehave guns in the house.
And my mom says I'll neverforget this.
My mom said I'm not being ableto get a hold of him and I'm
really worried.
He did something to himself andI said she sees the day-to-day.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
The day-to the day, yeah, and I said mom.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
I said what do you feel like?
And she's like I'm leaving workright now.
I'm headed that way, like willyou just stay on the phone with
me?
And I said, yeah, absolutely.
So I'm headed this way.
I'm she's headed this way.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
We're coming and don't know what you're gonna to
walk in.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
We don't know what we're going to walk into.
And she, I'm on the phone withher and I have my work phone.
I have two phones.
I have a work phone, I have myphone, I have my work phone on
about to call 911 if she needsme to, and I have her on my
other phone.
And she walks into the houseand she walks in and he's asleep
in their bed, passed out,passed out, drunk in the bed.

(52:57):
She hadn't, she hadn't talkedto him until since, like 10
o'clock that morning.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
it was like three o'clock at this point and she's
like oh, okay, he's but okay,but 10, 11, 12, 1, so even if
there's five hours and shehasn't heard from him, yes which
is not a long time, but whathas really been.
I mean, you know, I'm sayingjust for the listeners, I can I,
because I know what goes on thethe house about alcohol.
Yeah, for what Katie had to bethinking.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Yeah, and just all the emotions that he was going
through and he had been, youknow, so angry, so depressed, so
just out of sorts that, that wethought at that point him doing
something to himself was notout of a realm of possibility.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Obviously.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
And you know, we know know there's there's guns here,
you know, and my mom reallythought that's what she was
walking into and for her to havethat burden, for her to know
that you know she didn't want mehere, she didn't want me to
find it, she took that uponherself to come home um, did you
meet at the same time or is shehere?

Speaker 3 (53:56):
no, she.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
I was on the phone with her when she was like he,
he's okay, like I'll call youback.
So that was like a monday, andI came right here after that and
he was just out of his mind.
He was so drunk.
I ended up taking his phone,calling the owner of the company
that he worked for at thatmoment in time and I was like,
listen, I have his phone, you'regonna call me if you need

(54:19):
anything.
I, we, we gotta fix this.
There's something very, verywrong.
And so I had been at a positionI had only been in this new
position since February andthat's a Larry Shepard deal,
though, too, you know part ofthat.
Take charge, yeah yeah, and soI'd call my boss.
I was like, hey, I need to takethe next two days off.
I got to sort this out andshe's like, whatever you need,

(54:41):
whatever you need, take care ofit.
So, um, I took the next twodays off.
My mom had something going onat work that she couldn't be
home and I was.
I was getting his ass intorehab.
And so the next two days,really, I was just here
babysitting Larry and, good Lord, I was babysitting a very angry
Larry and I brought my laptop,I brought my stuff, I came and

(55:03):
sat with him all that next dayand he I had his phone, I had my
phone, I had my work phone.
I was working from the counter,I was doing whatever I needed
to do.
I was calling these rehabs,getting information, called
Maynards, talked to Marty, gavehim all the information, kind
ofnards talked to Marty, gavehim all the information, kind of
told him what was going on andthey were going to start helping

(55:23):
me at that point.
And you know he's listening tome make these calls and he's
laying on the couch and he'sjust being a dick and he's like
I don't fucking need you here tobabysit me, I don't need this,
I don't need that and I'm justlike, okay, like meeting his
anchor with grace, to the bestthat I I could at that moment in

(55:46):
time, and we're probably, it'sprobably about 1230 and he's
sitting there and he's sittingon the couch and he looks over
at me and he goes.
You know, the reason mydrinking so bad is because of
what you and Eric put us throughRight and in that moment in
time, through right and in thatmoment in time every negative
thought that I ever had aboutmyself for that situation just

(56:06):
came to fruition was validatedby not just myself.
Trust me, I beat my like I saidat the beginning, I beat myself
up about that harder thananybody ever could.
But for my dad to validate thatand to take essentially first
acknowledge he had a problembecause he hadn't acknowledged
it before, to acknowledge thathe had a problem and to put that

(56:28):
problem on me so heavy, soheavy, and I just remember
looking at him and saying thatis really unfair, that's really
unfair that you could say thatto me.
And he was just so smug.
He was just like well, it iswhat it is like, it's the
fucking truth.
And I sat there, continued tocall rehabs, continued to do

(56:49):
what I could do to find him somehelp, and I was texting eric.
Eric was at work and I was likeyou'll never believe what my
dad just said to me.
And he's like that's not's not.
He's like you can't believethat.
You can't, you can't believethat.
And even though I know now thatthat's not true, that that's

(57:10):
something that you just don'tmove past.
You just don't, you know, youdon't wake up the next morning
and be like, oh, he didn't meanit, like it's so heavy to bear
the responsibility of somebody'saddiction.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
To bear, but when you already had that burden on
yourself.
Yeah, you know the one thatbrought you into the world.
Yeah, lair bear.
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
To hold on to that and I after that never, never
said anything about it.
I never, you know I've neverbrought that back and been like
you said this to me, you've donethis to me, I've just held on
to it and it's not yours to holdon to baby.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
Yeah, hold on a second.
So you know the crazy thingabout that, sis, and I'm going
to address this right now.
I had this same conversationwith somebody else two days ago
and I'm not going to mention thename of it, but they can tell
their story when they get theopportunity.
But they basically said thesame thing and I'm going to tell

(58:20):
you this and to any alcoholictalking to that's not yours, to
hold on to that's mine.
Nothing, nothing, anybody didcause me to put that alcohol in
me.
Nothing.
What that was was a angry,self-centered piece of shit that

(58:44):
had allowed alcohol to consumehim to a point where I was so
dependent on it I couldn't stopdrinking more than a day without
seizures, than a day withoutseizures.
And the fact that these livingamends that I try so desperately

(59:06):
to do and in the, you know, oneof the things that we have to
do as alcoholics and we do our,our amends and we do those
things is, you know, with ourfamilies, we have to live with
these things and it's difficult,right, it's difficult the
things that bother me the mostto this day, right, are not

(59:27):
anything that I did to anybodyor none of my actions, and not
that those were good.

Speaker 3 (59:31):
They don't bother me like today.
But the shit that I said topeople right and that I remember
, the shit that I don't remember, I don't, but the shit that I
remember saying to people.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
The hurtful things kill me and that, like I said,
you that's, I can't fix, that Ican't Right, I can't what I, and
until that was told to me, Inever even that, never even
dawned on me, you don't rememberI don't remember it right, I

(59:59):
didn't come up.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
I was telling Miranda we were talking.
I talked about this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
I don't.
We had our moment, not an ounce.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Because in his step work this never came out, which
doesn't surprise me.
I struggle Now that Iunderstand the condition he was
in in this time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
And I struggle.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I've.
It wasn't her, no, no that'ssurprising.

Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
I struggled, I struggled with it really heavily
.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
It wasn't something I'd said to you, it was another
person.
Oh, gotcha Completely outside.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
Oh, okay, I thought you were like no, no, no not the
same situation at all.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Yeah, that's what's odd.
That's what's odd about this isit's within the five day period
the same thing has been broughtup.
I don't remember that yeah butby god, that was no, that is not
for you to carry, yeah, not foryou to care yeah that's mine

(01:00:55):
yeah but in the moment oh yeah,I can't take, I can't fix that,
I can't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
You know, I'm just sitting and I was just sitting
there at this counter liketrying to get you help, like
trying to I fuck, I took yourwork phone, I took this, I took
that, I took I remember itvividly now, every now I
remember it very vividly.
Yeah, yeah, and just knowtaking my guns out of the house.
Yeah, doing whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
I remember all that yeah.
I forgot all about that Forgotall about that.
Is that something, Not a notone ounce of a memory Till this,
till this came up, Not not evena thought process.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
Nope yeah, and it was just.
I mean, it was really heavy, sohe okay.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
So what stopped him from go?
Why didn't?
Why didn't?
Why didn't?
Why didn't?

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
he was not on board to go at that time, like at that
time it was like me and my momwere like you're fucking going.
Okay, Now he was from.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
McKenna story.
Yeah, mother, the, the womenyeah family kind of talking hey,
he may not be in the home, youknow, going on because you guys
seen this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Yeah, this is that's kind of where this is going yeah
, so that was october and youknow that was two days of hell
and us really arrangingeverything for him to go.
He didn't want to go, yeah, no,and he was like I'm fine, I
don't need to go I I I'll bebetter.
I got this yeah, yeah, okay, um,so he you know, and it was just

(01:02:23):
for me, it was like, okay, burythat away, just keep, keep
moving.
I got my own shit I have toworry about in that moment in
time and you know he's notwilling to go, I'm not gonna
make him go, and so you know, wekept moving and we went through
the holidays and you know samething, the holidays and we, you
know, we kept moving and we wentthrough the holidays and you
know same thing, the holidaysand we, you know, came through
the turn of the year and I couldjust see the tension, bullying

(01:02:47):
with my mom, and then my momstarts having conversations with
me and mckenna of this is this.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
This is what.
This is what mckenna kind oftalked about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Yeah, yeah, dad might not be in the home anymore yeah
, and these are heavyconversations to have with your
grown daughters, like and youknow, my mom asking you know if
I've got to go or if I've got toleave the house, like
essentially what, what should Ido?
Like what is the plan here?
Like should I kick him out?
Should should I leave?
Like what should I do?

(01:03:15):
And like these areconversations that I never
imagined I would have to havewith my mom like I, my parents,
uh, the d word is not a wordthat we say in this house.
We don't say it.
In my marriage, now, we didn't.
My parents never used that word, and to know that that was a
realm of possibility at thatmoment in time was terrifying.

(01:03:39):
Even at 30 is scary to hearyour parents possibly going
through that and knowing at thatmoment in time that I felt as
though that was a bettersolution for my mom than what
she was living in in that momentin time.
Why bet, like dude, just getout Like you know what, if this
is your day to day.
Like she had gone to the pointwhere she had put his ass on a

(01:04:00):
freaking allowance to stop himfrom going to buy an alcohol.
Like she had, just as short as,gone to every liquor store here
in town and told them don'tsell to him.
Like she tried everythingpossible to slow him down.
He was just a menace to himselfat that moment in time yeah he
was gonna get it and he didn'tgive a shit where he got it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
Well, no, we got to get up, we got to get our
medicine.
Yeah, got to get made, we gotto get right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Yeah, and listening to her and the amount of money
that he was spending on alcoholand her even like taking away
his cards and taking away thisand taking away that.
And then he learned how to useApple pay and it was just all
like downhill from there.
So you know, that came and thatput us in April and my son was
playing t-ball at the time andmy dad and mom, so here comes

(01:04:47):
the grandson's t-ball game.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Dude, what a catalyst , what t-ball game.
And Patrick, what a fuckingcatalyst.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
I love it.
Tell me about the t-ball game.
Yeah, so my son was playingt-ball at the time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
Okay, hold on.
What is he then like as agrandpa?

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Non-existent.
What's he like now?
Non-existent.
What's he like now as a grandpa?
Oh my gosh, you know what, ifhe could be up their butts, he,
he's just like he can't cuddlethem enough, he can't love on
them enough.
He especially my little one, mylittle, I don't want to say
she's like adverse to men, butshe is like she'll give you like

(01:05:30):
a moment of her time and she'slike all right, bye, like we'll
get up except for Patrick know,for some reason she just loves
Pat and she'll sit with him, noproblem.
And my husband's dad, her Tutu,she loves Tutu.
She'll hang out on Tutu all thetime, she talks about Tutu all
the time.
But other men and my dad she'llbe like.
Alright, I gave you 10 minutes,I'll see you later.

Speaker 3 (01:05:51):
Who's that?
Who's that in the family?
Is that just a brand newpersonality?
Who, oh no, she's brand new.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Oh gosh, she's a personality of her own.
Okay, yeah, but my son, my sonis very much as a papa's guy.
He'll come like if papa callsand papa says, hey, bug, you
want to go run this or you wantto go do this, and he's like,
yeah, let's go.
He's a writer for his papa.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
He'll go wherever we were texting all morning about
sacramento, sacramento, hornetgames yes, oh my gosh, my 10
year old.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Oh, he is gosh, he's a light of my life.
He is a sports guru and it wasso funny.
For the longest time he couldhave cared less about sports,
cared less, and it was like alight came on in him and he is a
football guy, he's a wrestlingguy, he's a jujitsu guy, he is a
basketball guy, whatever thisseason.
Is he okay?
So he's playing t-ball?
Yes, so he's playing t-ball.
He's a wrestling guy, he's ajujitsu guy, he is a basketball
guy, whatever this season is heokay, so he's playing t-ball yes

(01:06:40):
, so he's playing t-ball he'sdrunk drunk.
He ends up leaving, leaving thet-ball game.
He ends up leaving like midt-ball game and my mom is still
there.
They came in separate vehiclesfor some reason I had been in a
appointment in modesto yeah.
So he comes and he leaves and mymom, after the game, you know,
hugs, kisses, bye, my mom goeshome and my mom's probably home

(01:07:03):
for like 20 minutes.
She calls me.
She's like I need to come overhere.
I'm like for what?
Like, what's going on?
She's like your dad's drunk ashell.
He's being mean, I'm not doingthis anymore.
And I was like, okay, like I'mon the way, I tell you.
Okay, I was like my mom needsme.
I gotta go the way.
I tell you.
Okay, I was like my mom needsme.
I got to go.
And so I come over here andhe's laying on the couch and
he's just like like in a corpseposition, like his arms are

(01:07:25):
crossed, and he's just like sodrunk.
And I go over and I'm likepushing him and I'm like, hey,
like what's going on, like what,what's happening, like what are
what the fuck, pretty much.
And he's like leave me alone.
And I'm like, uh, no, like what, what's going on here?
Like what are you doing?
and he's like I fucking told youto leave me alone and he pulls

(01:07:47):
on his big ass long legs andfucking kicks me right in the
chest, sends me backwards on myass, and I got up and just
started wailing on him, startedpunching him, telling him what
the fuck?
Like you think this is okay,you think we're gonna, you're
gonna treat us like this, likethis is the fucking end.
Like this, you make a fuckingdecision right now.

(01:08:08):
This is the end.
This is where we draw the linewhen violence gets started.
Like this is not okay.
And my mom is crying, my mom'spulling him off me.
My mom's uh, I'm calling eric.
Like my dad just kicked me.
My dad, eric's, like I'm on theway.
Like eric goes and drops offthe kids.
My grandma, who is you want tosee my dad's kryptonite night?

(01:08:28):
Make him deal with my nana okay, this is his mother no, this is
my mom's mom.
Okay, yeah, uh, no one canstraighten that man out more
than that.
Five, eight, hell on wheels,lady.
And she just looks at him andhe gets set straight.
I'll tell you that.
And so we're, you know, we'recalling in all the enforcements,

(01:08:50):
cause we this, this is go timeat this point, like we're, we're
, we're done, done, and uh, soEric shows up, my grandma shows
up, my grandpa shows up, andhe's just this intervention
going.
I didn't know, there's allthese people Go ahead, yeah,
trust me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
I don't remember that many people being there either.

Speaker 1 (01:09:09):
Yeah, and my we're.
You know, we're all telling himthat this is done, we're done
here we're absolutely done, like.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
so when is it, when does the call to Patrick go out?
Then he, larry, says finally,I'm done.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
So I think the call to Patrick happened before I got
here, Cause that's why he waslike so angry at that point.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
My clarity came in at the, atthe phone call to Patrick which,
once again, I want to say thisGod loved my son-in-law to be.
He wasn't the catalyst for thethat that, he wasn't the reason

(01:09:51):
why all that happened, he was.
That phone call was when, mymoment of clarity, that when I
came to and I'm like, fuck, Ineed help yeah, I need, but this
is the moment.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
This is the day, oh yeah, oh yeah, it was all that,
yeah yeah, and eric and ericcame and eric was telling him,
you know, like hey, bro, thisain't good.
Like you just kicked my wife,like he went from being my dad's
son-in-law to being my husbandreally quick and he was like
very much, was trying to stayout of it, not get involved, and
he had to get heavily involvedat that point it was like this,

(01:10:28):
so did he go to that day?
oh yeah, you had to wait so evenafter all that, I got on the
phone immediately and called menerds and I actually talked to
marty again and marty was like Iremember when you called in
october and I was like marty'sawesome I was like, yeah, he's,
he's coming.
I was like what do we got to do?
And he was like let's startworking on it right now, get me

(01:10:51):
all the information, but I holdon.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
I just want to clarify because, once again,
what we talked about that end ofthat phone call to today.
I don't, I don't, I haven'tforgot anything into that phone
call to patrick to now.
You but you already had calledmy moment of clarity.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
So when that happened , call pat like I think that's
why I get confused.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Yeah, so I don't remember everybody being here.
I don't I remember you and momright and eric being here.
I don't I remember you and momright and Eric being here.
I don't remember grandma andgrandpa being here.
That doesn't matter Whatever.
All that chaos went and I kepttelling everybody I'm okay, I'm
okay, I'm okay.
And I went to call Patrick Onceagain.

(01:11:35):
Just a phone call.
Thank God he didn't answer.
But the reason why he didn'tanswer wasn't because he was mad
at me.
No, we know now Right, but hedidn't answer.
And when he didn't answer, onceagain my 100% moment of clarity
.
I was staring out the windowsright there in the kitchen and

(01:11:56):
when he didn't answer, I stoodup, I turned around and I said
said, take me to maynard's.
Yeah, I was done, wide awake atthat point.
Yeah, I was done yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:05):
So that was saturday and I called up there and I got
you know, I filled out all thepaperwork, I got all of his
insurance stuff over there.
We got that all sorted out andthey said, okay, you know, let
him keep drinking, don't, don't,let him stop.

Speaker 2 (01:12:19):
Hold on.
They said.
They said that to me and I hadto put it on speakerphone to
make sure everybody else heardthat.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Yeah, same thing they did to me.
Yeah, I said wait, I gotta givethis one my way, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Yeah, so obviously they told him to keep drinking
and you know they didn't want usto stop, want him to like start
going into DTs and everythinglike that.
Um, so then that was Saturdayand we all just kind of like
hung around, like the tensionwas just so high, we were like
staring at him like he was afreaking caged animal.
And then he calls Eric when wefinally get home.

(01:12:50):
He's like I want to go on awalk with you and pop tomorrow.
And so they Eric and my grandpa, my dad, my mom's dad they got
up in the morning and they wentand walked to the canal.
And my grandpa, my dad, mymom's dad, they got up in the
morning and they went and walkedto the canal.
And my poor grandpa you knowhe's in his eighties, he, they
didn't get very far.
My dad got a bum hip and youknow they just went on this walk
and they had I'm not I don'tknow what kind of a conversation

(01:13:12):
they had.
That's between them three.
And then they ended up comingback and I have this picture and
maybe my dad will post it.
I took it on that Sunday.
They were all three of themwere sitting on the couch
reading the Bible together.
And Eric, I remember Erictelling him you know, like Larry
, this is the time, this, thisis now that you got to go, like

(01:13:32):
this, this is the time to makeit right, like you've got to do
this for you.
And we had my dad and I had aseparate conversation and I told
him I said you've got to dothis for you.
And my dad and I had a separateconversation.
I told him.
I said you know you're goingand I said, and if you leave
early, it will be the last timethat you see my kids.
I will not put my kids in thissituation.
I will not put my kids aroundthis.
This is not good for them.

(01:13:54):
And he was crying and he's likeI can't believe you'd say that
to me.
And I said I mean it, athousand percent, I mean it.

Speaker 3 (01:14:02):
There's a thousand percent shepherd Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
Yeah, so that was Sunday.
And then Monday they theydidn't have the room for him, so
on Tuesday they said we'regoing to take him in on Tuesday.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
April 12th.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Yep, my sister and my mom and I, we took him up and
Okay, 12th Yep my sister and mymom and I, we took them up.
Okay, and I've heard three Well, I haven't heard Katie's yet
but three, two, this would bethird.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Version of the drive up.
What were you thinking?
Were you hopeful?

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Were you.
You know what I think?

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
I was just Like if a kid was just like yeah, being
there for mom, being there forKatie, yeah, I was there for
business at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
I was there for my mom, I was there to get him up
there.
I was there to make sure hewent in there, and the funniest
part of this is I don't I've notheard McKenna didn't say this.
This man was finding everyreason to pull over on the way
up there.
Oh, I need this.
Oh, I forgot this.
Oh, I need you.
Oh, I need you, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:14:55):
I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (01:15:00):
Oh my gosh.
We had to pull over at like thelast gas station before we got
up to meet her to get.
And he's like, oh, I'll go,I'll go in and get some chew.
I'm like, no, I'll go.
I went in and got him a can ofchew and we kept going.
We kept going up up the hilland you know, we get up there
and, like mckenna said thatmarty meets us out front, they
put us in this little room again.
He's like a caged animal.
When his anxiety is bad, he'sjust pacing around.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
I was mad, I was anxious.
I wasn't mad, I was veryanxious.
At that point, my, my angersubsided.
Yeah, I wasn't angry.

Speaker 3 (01:15:29):
No more anxious that anxiety.
Very, very on point.

Speaker 1 (01:15:32):
Yeah, so the, so the already prays over us and, you
know, we go outside and we sayour final goodbyes to him and he
, you know, loving on my mom,and he goes to go inside and we
watch him.
We stand out there and we watchhim walk in and we watch him go
in and then my sister and Ijust loved on my mom and, you
know, told her this was the bestdecision that they are made,

(01:15:54):
that he has made, and we werereally happy that he had done it
and followed through.
And this was just the firststeps forward, you know.
And then that began like ourfive days of what was the drive
home?
the drive home.
I ended up driving home.

Speaker 3 (01:16:08):
We you know you didn't stop by a covers and get
anything to eat.

Speaker 1 (01:16:12):
No, no, we came straight down and you know we
came.
I want to I.

Speaker 2 (01:16:15):
I want to back up for just a second.
Go ahead, Because of where Iput us financially.
Katie had taken all of our cashand put it away.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
I wasn't going to talk about it.
How are you?
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
It does to me, because this is what Miranda's.
So we had to put money down.
We didn't have cash.
She ended up having $3,500 cashavailable so I can go in.
So that's what she that camefrom.

(01:16:47):
Her Katie obviously paid herback.
We just couldn't get the cashout fast enough for when we get
in.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
So Miranda fronted the cash to get me in.

Speaker 2 (01:16:55):
Miranda got you in.
Miranda fronted the cast to getme in.
Like I said, Katie had shovedall of our savings, everything
where I couldn't get to it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
Yeah, my mom was really stressed when they told
us that he was going to have topay that up front.
He was going to have to paythat cost.
And Eric and I looked at eachother and we were like with no
hesitation.
We were like we've got it,don't even worry about it, we'll
go get it right now.
And Eric and I went to the bankand we pulled out the money and
we gave it to my mom and my momwas like you know, I'll get it

(01:17:27):
back to you.
I'm like I'm not stressed aboutit at all, like if it gives you
peace of mind, like take run,like for that they've ever done
for me, like that's minuscule,minuscule.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
That was nothing and so what's 28 days like with him
gone, so what's that?

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
what's to go back?
You know the five, the firstfive days we don't hear from him
because they're detoxing himokay, now I we didn't have
phones in.

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
All we had was a little pay cell pay phone in the
in the rooms.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Yeah, that's the same thing okay yeah, so actually
the the first phone call,because you know, when I did the
intake call with marty, martywas asking me like what's going
on?
And I had told marty this wholeconversation, you know, like
he's being really mean to my mom, he's, you know, he kicked me
all these things.
Uh, he kicked me and you know,marty was like obviously
concerned.

(01:18:14):
And so when he finally getsthese phone calls and they're
putting him through prettyextensive, you know, therapy, I
get this phone call from him andhe is Five days later, five
days later, and oh you know,first off, I'm so nervous
because I am getting this phonecall from my dad, who's in rehab
, getting better, and the phonecall that I get is met with hey,

(01:18:41):
did you tell them that I kickedyou?
And I was like uh hi, yeah, Idid well, why would you say that
?
Why would you?
say that I didn't do that.
I was like, yeah, yeah, you did.
And he was like well, why wouldyou tell them that I was being
mean and that I was saying beingabusive to you guys?
Like that's not okay, like thatthat's not right.

(01:19:03):
And I'm like dad, that'sliterally the truth.
Like you literally kicked me,I'm not lying, hangs up on me
and I was like, oh, cool, coolphone call like what?

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
maybe because everybody who knows our this to
our podcast, if you don't,larry's first 20 something days
of his 28 days.
I didn't give.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
He was a asshole, I was a motherfucker yeah, and I
could hear somebody on the otherline I don't know who it was,
if it was marty or whomever andthey were like see, see, I'm not
lying to you, you did do that,like they're telling him, like
validating that this is true, Imean mean, but he's just coming
again.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
Yeah, Cause I hate.
I hate to make a big excuse forthe alcohol, cause we don't.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
But as you're coming out of the fog, there's a lot of
shit you don't you know it's inand out, but yeah, I, I like I,
you know, you said it firstjust fucking, you were telling

(01:20:04):
him how to run mainers, you weregonna fix everybody up there.
I mean, I was sober and I wasclear thinking.
I was just still angry.
Yeah, I hadn't really beengiven the.
You know, I had my moment ofclarity that I knew I was done
drinking right, but at thatpoint I was very pissed off
about having to be sober.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
I hadn't really, you know, chris hadn't turned the
chairs around.
No, there was still a littlebit.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
There's still a little bit to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So then when he obviously wentthrough all of his days, my mom
and his brother and my aunt wentin and got him and then when
they came down he went andpicked up the kids from school
and Kane was, you know, soexcited to see him, of course,
and you know, I promised him hey, you finish these days and you
can see the kids, but if youleave early or you don't stick

(01:20:43):
it out, you're not seeing mykids, you're not doing it.
And he did it, so he was ableto go pick them up from school.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
What was that like that whole day?
You know, honestly, I don'tremember picking the kids up
that day.
The biggest part of that daythat I remember getting out is
seeing my brother and my wifeand my sister.
Really, the rest of that daywas a blur.

Speaker 1 (01:21:13):
It really was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
And then meeting Jay and Jeanette the first time.
The rest of that day was a blur.
It was just I was overwhelmedwith just so much new shit
coming at me.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
And your personality and hers.
Yeah, I want to make it right.
I want to make it right.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
I want to make all this.
Right I was.
I was not going to be held upby anybody.
Right I was.
I was at that point.
I was so ready to get throughthose steps.
Nothing was going to keep mefrom doing it, and that was the
only thing I was focused on.
I wasn't focused on going backto work, I wasn't.
I mean, I did, but I really allI wanted to do was get through

(01:21:54):
those steps.
That's what I wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know he came out and put his nose to
the grindstone.
He was working the steps andgoing to meetings and you know
I'm hearing all these thingsabout.
You know the things that he'sgetting involved with and the
people that he's talking to.

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
What do you see in your father?

Speaker 1 (01:22:15):
You know he was very subdued a little bit when he
came home.
He definitely wasn't like his.
My dad has a very, very brightlight.
He's very bright and it wasvery dim still he was not that
bright bubbly person that he isto his core and you know it's
very infectious.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
When did you start seeing that more and more?

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Um, I think, really, when he started doing like his
amends and when he startedfeeling that he had a good grasp
on his sobriety and honestly,rob, really after he met you and
started working with you, Ithink those lights in him don't
fucking blow his head up I'm notgod damn it I'm just being
truthful, it is true, it's allabout the timeline.
Yeah, it's true, you know just,I think he had to find somebody

(01:23:02):
that matched his energy and Ithink Jay was amazing for him
and we heard so much about MrJay and I met Jay and my dad
would take me to meetings andwith him and what do you think
about any meetings?
I had been exposed to it alittle bit.
I like the style of it becauseI had done celebrate recovery,
so I liked it.
I definitely thought it wasinteresting.
I went to a birthday one and Ithought that was nice and

(01:23:25):
everybody was so inviting andthey want to talk to you and
they, you know they're so prettygirls.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
He loves the pretty girls.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Yeah, my dad and my dad.
You know, my dad's a dad, as hebrought me in.
He's like stay away from her,stay away from her, don't talk
to her, you know so.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Somebody thought she was my wife.
That was the funniest.
No, I think I introduced you asmy wife.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
Oh Lord, that wouldn't surprise me.
I don't recall that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
but yeah, and I think well, because what I mean when
he met me, you know, when westarted working.
I also, he also.
That's when.
That's when the boys, that'swhen he got involved with the
men.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
Right the Monday night, so that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
No, no, no, I hadn't gotten involved with that yet.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
No no.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
When you started working with me, the first oh,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
For sure, yeah, yeah, I thinkwhen he found that Monday
meeting he really found home andthat's when he really lit up.
The lights definitely came backon.
You know he was.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
I felt like I was around my people.
Yeah, that's what See.
So there you go.

Speaker 3 (01:24:34):
Head still, my head's still the right side.

Speaker 2 (01:24:35):
It wasn't me.
No, it's that group of people.

Speaker 3 (01:24:39):
Yeah, and the steps in God, god it's all, god Right,
it's all.
God Right, however, god uses,god makes and God you know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:49):
For sure.
You know and he was still newinto his sobriety as well when
Eric and I got engaged.
We got engaged in july of 2022.
You guys have been together forhow long?
Yeah, so we have been.
We've been together off and on.
I will say that because, if not, he'll get me off and on for 15
years.
Okay, um, we had had two kidsand we, you know, our trajectory

(01:25:12):
is just different, but itworked for us and we got
ourselves to listen.
We've been married and divorcedthree separate times at this
point and you know what it tookus.
It took.
You know what Our foundationwas, so unbelievably strong by
the time that we got married.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
That you know we've been through the worst I've
never seen.
I appreciated that I got to beat the wedding.
Yeah, I got to.
That was great.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Watching him cry right down the aisle, let me buy
.

Speaker 1 (01:25:40):
She got that from yeah, she got that from pastor
rich yeah we came back, we wedid it in in the church, and
it's always been when I was, uh,about nine years old, my dad
did a feet washing ceremony atthe church and it always stuck
with me because it was the firsttime that I had ever seen my

(01:26:01):
dad.
Really, just that was the firsttime I'd ever seen my dad pay
amends, and at that age youdon't understand it.
It's just like, okay, my dad'stelling me sorry for all these
things, for what?
But it was so humanizing.
I remember, even as anine-year-old, being like it was
so important to me that my dadwas like apologizing to me for

(01:26:21):
things that I didn't even likeremember.
I was like, okay, thanks, dad,like you know.

Speaker 3 (01:26:26):
So see, and for mckenna yeah larry's humanizing,
because she was didn't rememberthat she was so little yeah,
his humanizing came with hisalcoholism.
Yeah is, when was she, you know?

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
yeah, and so eric and I.
It was really important for me.
You know, eric and I have beenthrough so much and we have come
out on the positive, but for meit was, I think, washing
someone's feet, just like Jesusdid.
It's the most humanizing andserving thing that you can do
for someone that it just stripsaway all pride Like, and for me

(01:27:01):
it was let me wash away all ofthose years that we had to work
to get to where we are right nowand to almost walk into our
marriage.
Doing that, it was wow.
It was so powerful and we stillget people that talk to us
about it and you know it wasreally important that we did
that for each other and foreverybody else and like all the

(01:27:23):
things that there are so manypeople that didn't have any idea
what was going on and I toldMiranda.

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
When she said she was going to do it, I was like make
sure the pastor kind of, or themake sure he kind of, explains
that a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
Otherwise people are just going to think you're
quirky.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
But so he had to explain a little bit why it was
happening.
So he did a good job and foranybody who's listening, who
doesn't know Jesus, he washedthe feet of his disciples as to
humble himself in front of them.
You know, to show them like I'mnot above you, that I can't get
down on my knees in front ofyou and wash your feet and, you
know, just bring myself down toyour level and it's so.
Just, it's humbling, it'sabsolutely a humbling experience
and I I encourage anybody thatyou know, if you've had a big

(01:28:08):
argument with your spouse or youneed to go before someone and
just lay it all out or child, orchild.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (01:28:16):
Yes, yeah or and you just need to humble yourself in
front of them Wash their feet,wash away all of that hurt that
is at the bottom and just dumpit out.
Dump it out after that's a goodpoint Start.
New, start afresh.

Speaker 3 (01:28:32):
So what's Larry like now?
I mean, what is your guys'relationship as the family grows
?
I mean because you got a familyof your own McKenna's not quite
there yet.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
Yeah, eric and I now have three kids.

Speaker 3 (01:28:42):
What's he like now?

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
Yeah, so we had Everly.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
Everly was my engagement gift Before the
alcoholism Hold on.
No, I mean.
So I got out May 10th, herbirthday's July 17th.
We went to Tahoe.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
That's how quickly I had to be around that Right, I
had to be around all thatdrinking and it was.
I can honestly tell you myobsession was completely gone,
even by July, and I can'tremember.
I don't think we had beenthrough the steps yet.
I don't even think we've I don'teven think you had met, we
hadn't met yet no, and you hadmet, right, we hadn't met yet,
no, and uh, yeah.

(01:29:18):
So that was like my first andfunny story about that.
It's the first time I rememberyou guys have heard me tell this
story.
My wife was being a brat and Iliterally got to, I literally
got to look at and go, you'rebeing a brat.
Without her having the abilityto say, well, you're a drunk,
guess what I'm not, you know.
And funny thing about it likeinstantly she's just like, okay,

(01:29:40):
and we, you know it.
Then her and I left and had anamazing freaking night after her
and I left, but it just anyways.
I don't know why I went downthat road, but it was that.
I just remember having to go up, not having but the opportunity
to go up there for her birthday.
It was her 30th birthday, right, yeah, it was her 30th birthday
, right, yeah, it was my 30thbirthday.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
We were actually supposed to get engaged in Tahoe
and for some reason I had likepicked up Eric's phone and my
dad and him were texting aboutTahoe was supposed to be a
surprise and they were liketexting about it and I had seen
the text and he was so mad.

Speaker 2 (01:30:16):
He was like why are?

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
you like that?

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
I was like, oh, eric was yeah.
I was like I was just lookingat something.
Like I swear we.
It was a whole surprise once hegot back.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
Yeah, so once we got back from Tahoe we got, we got
engaged on my birthday.
But my dad, he, we all went outdrinking and all that kind of
stuff after we got engaged.
Um, and you know, my dad, youknow, made the decision to stay
home and you know, do thosethings and we always, we never
had like a negative, like, oh myGod, why aren't you going Like,

(01:30:46):
why aren't you going with us,like we just knew that that was
right, what was right for him inthat situation.
But knowing that he was soberand that's just, and being able
to see those milestones from asober view, where it's just just
, that meant more than him beingthere at all, like knowing that
he could see it through a soberlens and enjoy it and not

(01:31:07):
forget about it or me not feelstressed about like, oh god,
like drunk larry, you never knewwhat drunk larry was gonna say.
Like I was always stressedabout what drunk larry was gonna
pop off with the familyafterward talks about that.

Speaker 3 (01:31:18):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:20):
So and having those experiences, um, you know, or
was just great.
Like I, I'm happy that Eric andI didn't get engaged and get
married during the sickness ofhis addiction.
You know, like I, I can'timagine yeah, yeah, I can't
imagine having that stress ofworrying about him at our

(01:31:40):
wedding or what he was going todo or what he was going to say.

Speaker 3 (01:31:44):
No, that's about as proud as I've seen a man
actually that day.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I've said this multiple
times the pleasure that I wasgiven to walk her down the aisle
was, you know, it's like apinnacle, you know, and you know
, then McKenna decides to do ittwo years later, so I get the
honor to do it again.
You know, and it's just and Isay this, I was one drink away

(01:32:09):
from missing all that.
You know.
You know, you know we talkabout that turning point.
You know it says that ourturning point was me looking out
those windows in the kitchenand turn around and say take me
to Maynard's.
You know, with everybodystanding there, I could have
turned around and said you'reall fucking stupid.

Speaker 3 (01:32:27):
And which I probably said before anyway, but I got.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
I you know I could have, I had the opportunity, I
had that moment.
But I had my moment of clarityand I turned around and said
take.

Speaker 3 (01:32:39):
I had my moment of clarity and I turned around and
said, take me to Maynard's Right, yeah, and if we could bottle
that, Larry, and spray it?
You know the ones that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
And you know, and I don't know if I'd fully
committed to it or not, I justknew I needed help at that point
.
Right I was, I was done, done,the fight was over.
I ceased fighting that day.
I didn't want to fight no moreand, uh, my depression was at a
point where I didn't want todeal with nobody, talk to nobody

(01:33:04):
.
You know, hearing miranda talkabout um I, I don't remember I
the thought of katie thinkingthat I'd done something to me,
to myself.
I hadn't heard that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:33:21):
And I don't think, but you could, but you could
kind of hear, let me, especiallywhen McKenna was talking about
it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:26):
I hadn't heard it put that way you know, but I'm sure
when Katie gets on here she'llbe able to talk about it Cause
I've, even when McKenna Wait,they mean they the thought of my
wife driving home, thinkingthat.

Speaker 1 (01:33:38):
Yeah, and her not wanting anybody else to come, or
that's why I wanted to askMiranda, because I thought about
when McKenna was sharing it.

Speaker 3 (01:33:46):
Well, mckenna had only not talked to him for five
hours, why would she be soworried?
You know, because all thatstuff going on then.
Now we kind of get to a littleback, you know, you get more
layers.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and shit, we put people through.
Yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
Yeah, that was a rough day, that was, that was
hard.

Speaker 3 (01:34:06):
A rough day and a great day?
Well, no that one wasn't.
Yeah, it was.
It was a ball game.

Speaker 1 (01:34:13):
No, that was the first.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
that was our first the T-ball game was the day I
left there and came home.
I don't, yeah, you know, Idon't remember.
Here's the best part about thatis I don't even remember going
to the game.
Now, I blocked because, as I'vesaid before, I never drank to
black out right, that's neverwhere I wanted.

(01:34:34):
I'm going to assume I went tothe game and realized I needed a
fucking nap.
You know, because that'snormally what you know.
I drank because you got to be,oh shit.
I went to the yeah, I went tothe, to the other side, and I'm
like, yeah, no, I need to gohome, take a nap.
And I went home and fell asleep, right because I was at that
point where, you know, I justdidn't want to.

Speaker 1 (01:34:55):
We like to call it passed out yeah, but that even
the day after that sunday, whenwe knew we were moving in the
direction of rehab and we knewhe was going to maynards, and he
, oh my gosh, he was likesitting on the couch and then I
don't know if he was like tryingto make light of the situation,
he was like, hey, you guys wantto see where I hide all my
alcohol?
And we're like, no, like youknow, he was just trying to make

(01:35:16):
like a joke out of it and wewere so not in like a joke.

Speaker 3 (01:35:19):
He was just saying what you want to break the
tension?

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
Yeah, and he was like , oh, all right, Well, I hide it
in a suitcase in the garage.
Like we were like, oh myfreaking God, Like we don't care
.
Like you know, at this point wejust got to get you somewhere
where you can get the help.
And you know, he just tried tobe Mr Jokester all the way
through.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
The funny thing about that is when they did tell
Katie to make sure I had somealcohol right.

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
Did she go to the suitcase?

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
No, no, no.
Well, here's the funny part.
Right, it wasn't the suitcase,it was my toolbox.

Speaker 1 (01:35:48):
Anyways, you had two.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
You showed me, you still showed me yeah.
Against my will.
And then when we got home fromKatie allowing me to have some
beers and some whiskey, then shemonitored that I put the
fucking whiskey that she knew Ihad in my fucking toolbox, where
I'd been hiding it in a lockeddrawer.

(01:36:12):
It's just what we do, it's justa habit.
Why I did that is still beyondme.
And when I walked out there at2.36.m on april 12th it was in
my toolbox and that's where Iopened it took my last drink.
So, yeah, it's just odd, it'sjust stupid.
Stupid that I think about stufflike that, but it's like the
fucking insanity of an alcoholicis just insane.

(01:36:33):
Yes, this stuff.
To sit back and think about thestupid shit I did and said and
the way I used to try to hide myshit is just God damn.
The insanity is just incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
Incredible to think that the shit I did to hide my
alcohol.

Speaker 3 (01:36:54):
Yeah, and let me ask you a question.
Hit me, three years down theroad, three and some change down
the road and having your family, you know, as things are
healing, what do you?

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
I'm struggling right now.

Speaker 3 (01:37:06):
With what.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
You know, shortly after doing my amends, I
remember calling you right.
Yeah, and we talked about thiswith Mike and we've talked about
it multiple times and I washaving the hardest time of
forgiving myself, right.

Speaker 3 (01:37:28):
Which we do.

Speaker 2 (01:37:30):
Right and I'd said how do I make amends to my?
You know I'd talked to you knowI never real properly did my
amends to Miranda for a while.
I did right before the wedding.
Yeah, we did it on the phone.

Speaker 1 (01:37:50):
I was watching everybody.
I was watching him.
I'm glad you said that, Doug.

Speaker 2 (01:37:54):
No, I remember I didn't want to touch base on
that.

Speaker 1 (01:37:56):
No, I remember that I was watching him make amends
with everybody else around usyou know he talked to, I'm
hearing them talk about it andlike say that you know we had
these conversations, mckenna, Ihad this conversation with my
dad, my mom.
He was telling me like a randomold coworker attempted to reach
out to her to make amends and Iwas just like damn, all right,

(01:38:19):
like cool, everybody gets amends, but my ass or what you know,
and I won't lie, it festered alot of like resentment because I
was like I got some step workfor that you know, I was like
out here, he's out here makingamends to everybody and I and I
remember talking to eric aboutit I'm like, am I not owed that?

(01:38:42):
like am I not deserving of that?
And again, I'm my hardestcritic and I was just like you
know, I put in a lot of work toget this man sober and here I am
like waiting for like a hey,sorry, you know, like, and so
something to talk to me,something, yeah, you know, like
something, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:39:04):
So my daughter's two very, very different
personalities, right heart toheart.
More connection with Miranda.
You know McKenna her and I canbe fucking extremely blunt with
each other, right, I know thatMiranda is so much like me that

(01:39:25):
she is going to harbor some ofthis and I didn't know how I was
going to do it.
Mckenna, I could just say, hey,I fucked up.
You know, this is what you knowand have my I mean it's fucking
out there with McKenna.
Miranda, it's not, it's just,it's so much more of a

(01:39:46):
connection in the heart of Iknow that she's going to, she's
going to dwell on it after theconversations, because that's
who we are.
That's what her and I do withMcKenna.
I could just say it and it'sthe fuck out the window, right,
she's, she's good.
Miranda is gonna hang on to it,devour it, and I didn't, I would

(01:40:09):
just I was trying to protecther I was was trying to protect
that because I didn't want herto feel like any of this was her

(01:40:32):
fault and it wasn't, it was me,all me.
Things said, things did.
It was never anybody's faultexcept for me putting that shit
in my body and getting to apoint where my body became
dependent on it, and at thatpoint the depression hit hard

(01:40:56):
and I went into a hole that Iwouldn't want my worst enemy in.

Speaker 3 (01:41:05):
How are you guys today?

Speaker 1 (01:41:07):
We're good.
Yeah, we I think getting better.
Yeah, I think today does thishelp.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, I think it's just notsomething that we've just
touched on.
I think just life has continuedto keep moving and you know, we
I personally, like you said, Idon't like to go back, I don't
like to sit there, I because Iwill sit there and I will put

(01:41:31):
myself back into those feelingsthat I had at that time and I'll
put myself in a hole for thenext two weeks my daughter's the
same way I have to fight out ofit, fight like a dog to get out
of it, and uh same way.

Speaker 2 (01:41:42):
Yeah, I'm the same way yeah, I mean to the.

Speaker 1 (01:41:44):
I don't know if you know this about me, rob, but in
2017 I had I was trying to putcane down for a nap and went
into a grand mal seizure.
I that set off one of like 80seizures in five days I'll let
my sister tell you about her.

Speaker 3 (01:41:59):
She's, she was, she is epileptic I'm not, I know but
I know, I know what you'retalking about, so I got to slap
her one time yeah, and they werelike they could not figure I
was in the icu.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
They couldn't figure out what was wrong with me and
they were just like the onlything that they could think was
like it was just stress that hadmanifested and that's how it
had released itself, was it's?
Gotta come out some way yeah,and you know, and so me, my
biggest thing is I obviouslyhold on to that so heavy that it
turns physical.

Speaker 3 (01:42:29):
And I got some step work for you.

Speaker 1 (01:42:31):
OK, you know what he, my dad, tells me all the time
he's I really think you need towalk yourself.
I think you need to walk thesteps and I'm like, for what?
Like, I'm not an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
And we say this all the time Wouldn't hurt my
grandmother.
There you go.

Speaker 3 (01:42:44):
Yeah, and she's dead and she's dead.
She would help her immensely.
But I've taken people throughsteps that are not alcoholic and
they get well.
Talk to Brad's wife.
Talk to you, know, yeah.
Talk to my wife, michelle.
There's just a little avenue toget to God, yeah, and then to
let shit go because it's notpaying rent, kick it out.

Speaker 1 (01:43:07):
And we you know, I've done a lot.
I've done a lot of work onmyself and I've done a lot to
get me where I am now.
And you know I'm I'm very happywith where I'm at in life and
I'm very proud of where I'm atin life.
I've gotten myself, not me.
I take that back God and myrelationship with God and

(01:43:30):
especially since my dad gotsober, I will say that is the
biggest thing that myself hasgotten from my dad getting sober
.
Was it really catapulted myrelationship with God?
And it was.
I know that this is an easyplace for me to find myself in
and I know, you know that thisis an easy place for me to find
myself in.
And I know, you know alcoholismaddiction it can be genetic and
I know that.

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
Even if the alcohol doesn't show up a lot of the
isms.

Speaker 1 (01:43:54):
Yeah, and I know that .
You know it's something that Ihave to work on and I know that
the only person that's going toget me through that is God.
In my relationship with God,and it is super important for me
and my husband that we put Godat the center of our home and we
just I don't want to just soundlike somebody that's just

(01:44:18):
talking.
I want to talk the walk.
I want to talk the talk.
I want to walk the walk.
I want to be about it, that itjust emanates off of me and
touches other people around meand just say, hey, I want some
of that Like.
And it's so crazy to me thatsometimes we'll hear all the
time like oh, you're a lot nicernow than you were in high
school.
I was like I didn't know I wasrude in high school.

(01:44:38):
Like I've always thought I wasthe same person.
But as Eric and I have grown inthis business and he's brought
more people into our fold andyou know it's old people that we
used to know and they're likeyou're a lot different I'm like
maybe that's just this new light.
It's definitely God, it's God,it's God shining through me, and
nothing gives me more joy thanwhen Eric and I are sitting down

(01:45:01):
reading our Bibles in themorning, and we've made it a
habit that we try to go throughthe same chapter at a time and
we'll drink our coffee and thenwe'll discuss it.
But then our kids get up andthey grab their Bibles and Cain
comes out and starts opening uphis own chapter and Claire's
singing worship music in theback, and the baby is singing
too.
She doesn't know what she'ssinging, but she's seeing it and

(01:45:21):
that has filled me with morelight and more hope than
anything could have ever andthat you know.
A lot of that propelling thatwas my dad getting sober.
So maybe my dad not takingthose steps, I know we would be
where we're at now, but maybenot at this time period.

Speaker 2 (01:45:43):
I'd have been dead.
Yeah, no, that's a true fact,that's.
You can tell me.

Speaker 3 (01:45:46):
you always tell when I hear the story yeah for all of
us, and there's a certain youknow as it comes to a close.

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Yeah, I, I, you know there's, I think, two things
that you know when miranda talksabout, you know, well, just
come, you know that drive homefor Katie.
That just the thought of that.

Speaker 1 (01:46:06):
And you know what's funny, dad, I had a conversation
with her earlier today becauseI was just trying to get
timeline and I honestly thinkshe had forgotten about it,
because I brought it back up andshe was like oh, she probably
blocked that.
Oh, her face was like.

Speaker 3 (01:46:18):
Our wives block all kinds of stuff.
Yeah, her face was like andthey don't want to relieve that
shit, no, but yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:46:25):
You know it's, it's healing for me and you know what
?
Do you think, miranda?
Is this good for you?

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
Oh God, yeah, and I think that's why.
Not that I was stressed aboutit, but when I had the
conversation with Rob, the he'slike no, he's like I'll call you
in a little bit, I'm working.
And then we were playing phonetag because I was seeing some
patients and when I finally gotback to him I'm like listen, I
know this is a conversation thatI need to have, but I want to

(01:46:51):
do it so respectfully.
Not only respectfully to my dad, but respectful to my husband
and what we've been through.

Speaker 3 (01:46:59):
And you handled it beautifully.
Thank you, absolutely,absolutely.
I just you handled itbeautifully.

Speaker 1 (01:47:02):
Thank you, absolutely , absolutely.
I just love you.
Two are the most important menin my life, and god, obviously.
God, eric and larry, are themost important people in my life
and I me.
I just always want to pay youguys the most respect and that's
why I was asking, rob, likeplease guide me on doing this,
but make it so it doesn't seemlike a therapy session, but that
we.

Speaker 2 (01:47:22):
But it is kind of no, it is, it is therapeutic, but
you handled it perfectly.
I said this earlier, in thevery beginning, in the video
that you and I did that I'mgoing to be posting here pretty
soon.
That it's just God worksthrough this.
Rob and I had talked aboutdoing these, these podcasts,

(01:47:45):
having my daughters on, and thenthe daughters were like we
can't do it together, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:47:49):
Then wait, which you know, which was great, which was
probably the best.

Speaker 2 (01:47:53):
And then you know katie's working, you know, you
know she's gonna make it.
She's.
She's struggling with it alittle bit too, you know she's.
You know there's a lot.
And then you know it's just Idon't even know where the fuck I
was going just now.
I just I knew that this wasgoing to be very healing.
And when I spoke to you know,it came up again here just a few

(01:48:17):
days ago, prior to this, thatyou know that I felt guilty
about this and I'm like, forgod's sakes, no, please.
And then I didn't the thethought of the shit I did,
making the people that I lovefeel guilty about what I was
going through.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
I'm just, I didn't want that thing that they had
something that they think thatthey were we've done.
Did we cause this?
Did we bring this?
Yeah, they're at fault thatthat they had something that
they think that they were.

Speaker 2 (01:48:43):
Did we cause this?
Yeah, they're at fault that,that they're at fault for my
alcoholism, and I'm like fuck,no, you know, god damn it, I
didn't want that, I don't wantthat.
But we caused it, we did.
And I hadn't heard that untilrecently, right till this.
We started doing these podcastsright after mckenna's holy shit

(01:49:05):
, the.

Speaker 3 (01:49:06):
The family conversations are completely
different yeah there's been alot of other internal
conversations and you know that,besides what's on here, that
have brought a bunch of shit outwhich is good, because from
just from outside, looking in,just from what I've listened to,
you know the shepherd family,especially the fab four.

(01:49:26):
You know growing up strongfamily, great, great, great.
Then they had this, and now,where it can go from here is
going to be even better you know, I mean, it's just I can't even
the core forms by the core forcore for I can't even imagine a
day without what I have rightnow.

Speaker 2 (01:49:47):
Right, what I have right now.

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
And I don't know any men that don't appreciate.

Speaker 2 (01:49:52):
No, I mean they do.

Speaker 3 (01:49:53):
but you appreciate it as much as any man can, what
you have, which God's giving youback.

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
Some days I'll be just driving and the gratitude
will just overwhelm me of whatGod has given back to me, just
by getting through those stepsand turning all my care and all
my wills over to the care of God, just saying take this, I don't
Take it.
Show me what you want me to do.

(01:50:20):
Guide me in how you want me todo this.
Guide me in how you want me togo and deal and work through
with Miranda.
Guide me how you want me towork with Katie.
Guide me how you, you know, andjust these, work in amends that
I'm and we still don't do itperfectly, we don't.

Speaker 3 (01:50:36):
I'm horrible at it.
There's still a lot of gracethat needs to be, and I Miranda
said this earlier.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
I say some crazy ass shit and I don't mean it, but
fuck, it comes into my head andit comes out my mouth.
There's not a lot of filter upthere, right, but you're getting
better.
No, no, I'm not.
I mean I a little bit, a littlebit, a little bit, but I mean I
, I don't you know whatever, I'mgoing down another rabbit hole.
But I mean, you know, it's justlike I said, going back to what
you know, those those beingable to forgive yourself.

(01:51:03):
You know, it's just like I said, going back to what you know,
those those being able toforgive yourself.
Right, you know thatconversation still vivid.
I was turning the corner rightdown here when I was having that
conversation with Rob and I'mlike, you know, I just got back
from from Roseville doing amendswith with my old boss and I'm
like I don't know how and I, inmy mind, I'm like I fucking hate

(01:51:25):
myself, I, I'm mad at myselffor the shit.
And Rob, I just remember Rob islike Larry, you that's a, you
got to do a living amends foryourself.
And I'm like, okay, I it madesense and working through this
with McKenna, that now, miranda,it's just like this is.
This is ongoing.
You know that those always,always ongoing.

(01:51:47):
You know you just said the otherday that something popped up
that you hadn't thought of in along time, and you know it's
just.
You know, does it hurt?
Yep, it hurts.
There was a guy speaking thismorning had 20 years of sobriety
.
He still gets emotional when hetalks about some of the shit
that he did to his wife.
And it's like he still getsemotional when he talks about
some of the shit that he did tohis wife and it's like, yeah,
you know, if you don't, if it'snot emotional anymore, then that
means maybe, maybe you don'tremember it Right.

(01:52:11):
And uh, you know, you knowthese guys make fun of me now
because they I cry on the dropof a hat.
Right, it doesn't take much.

Speaker 1 (01:52:19):
That's not new, I just like to have that.

Speaker 2 (01:52:21):
Well, you know I've always been a sensitive, soft
person.
I mean, I just turned to afucking asshole, you know.
Going back to what I was, youknow, talking about, you know,
katie, that if they would haveknown the amount of thought
processes that were goingthrough my head to keep myself
from killing myself, thingsprobably would have been a

(01:52:44):
little bit different, because Ididn't even realize that until
Miranda just said it, that I wasgoing through it and they were
thinking it, and that's scary tothink about that, that I was
that far, that I was that far,the barn that far the barn on

(01:53:05):
the turn right I was so far thatmy inward thoughts were
starting to come outward, thatpeople could see that that's
scary.

Speaker 3 (01:53:17):
Right I had a gun in my hand in early sobriety.
Wow, brutal, painful.
When you start feeling thesethings, you're for me, uh, one
in the morning, about three inthe morning, where see, I never
had that, rob.
I've heard you guys talk thatwell, that's why I've never had
that if the night terrors right,whatever those, when the

(01:53:37):
emotions come on because youhaven't felt.
For if you haven't allowedyourself to feel right for years
and then it won right one tothree in the morning, that's
when the shit that you haven'tallowed yourself to feel right
for years and then it won rightone to three in the morning,
that's when the shit that youdidn't want to feel yeah and I
don't.
I think for me because for me.

Speaker 2 (01:53:51):
I think because I wear my heart so far out on my
sleeve that I I didn't care whoI, I dumped it out that the cash
register at the store.
I just would let it out.
I never had that night terrorbecause when I started dumping
it fucking came.

Speaker 3 (01:54:05):
I didn't care who was listening.
Jay had got it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:54:07):
But it was still it was just I never had those hard
times it already survived Inever.

Speaker 3 (01:54:12):
That's why I tell my guys what I tell you right.
I don't care what time thenight yeah, call me.

Speaker 2 (01:54:16):
I didn't have that, I didn't have that available to
me once again I didn't have that, because when chris broke open,
I fucking spewed.

Speaker 3 (01:54:27):
I just was guided to Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:54:28):
Remember my chicken died right, I had more shit,
right, no, I had I just what washer?
Name Abigail.
Anyways you know I I'm Miranda.
I can't uh thank you for this.
I can't.
That was awesome.
I can't un uh thank you forthis.

Speaker 3 (01:54:44):
I can't.

Speaker 2 (01:54:44):
that was awesome I can't unbreak um what was broken
right I.
I can tell you that that wasn't.
That never was your fault,never.
I know that that because you areothers because you are my child

(01:55:05):
and because we think so muchalike, I know that that doesn't
solve, that doesn't take thataway and only time will take
that from you.
We have to work through thosethings the way you and I think
we have to work through thosethings in our own way, but let
it the fuck go.
I think we have to work throughthose things in our own way,

(01:55:25):
but let it the fuck go, Ipromise you, because it wasn't
what spewed from my mouth.
It was not anything you did.
It was the pure weakness of merunning to a bottle to solve
something that wasn't going togo away with alcohol.
It wasn't going to go away.

(01:55:46):
It didn't go away with alcohol,it didn't.
It went away because you andEric turned your faith to God
and it subsided that tensionthat was here and inside the
home and inside the home.

(01:56:09):
But at that point my addictionwas so far gone that it katie
and i's the.
The tension in the house wasnever katie or never the brandon
eric.
The tension was more my alcoholthan it was oh yeah, anything
else, oh Right, and never, everwas it anybody's fault,
anybody's but mine, mine andmine alone.

(01:56:31):
Nobody.
Nobody put that bottle in mymouth, nobody.
That was all me.
I own that shit, own it.
Do you love your daughter?
Oh my God, that shit.
Own it and you love yourdaughter.

Speaker 1 (01:56:51):
Oh my god, thank you.
I think for me it was again,because I will take anybody's
burden and take it on.
I got strong shoulders, we do?
I think that for a long time.
It was if I could hold thatburden for you for a little

(01:57:15):
while and be the catalyst thatcaused that, and you would come
around and I would get thatapology that I that I wanted and
that I needed and that I couldhold on to it.
And I think when you guys havesuggested that I come to do the
podcast, I was like I'm gonnahave to let that go to be able

(01:57:37):
to move forward, because it'snever, was never something that
you brought up on your own andthat that's what I was talking
to rob.
I was like, listen, like Iwaited a long damn time for that
event and when I got it, likeit was not brought up and you
know, it was kind of more likehey, we got to do this before
the wedding so I can get it offmy chest, so I can be clear of

(01:57:57):
mind at the wedding and I waslike this, that's it, where was
I, motherfucker?
And so I remember calling Ericafter him and being like he
didn't apologize for blaming me,like blaming us for his
addiction.

(01:58:17):
And when I was talking to Robabout it, rob was like Rand, I
don't think he remembers.

Speaker 3 (01:58:22):
It was on the step.
I know he does it because itwasn't on the step work.
I know he does it because itwasn't in the step work.
Larry holds nothing back.
No.

Speaker 1 (01:58:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:58:28):
And I just wish, like I told you, being molested
didn't come up for me.
I mean, we bury some shit sodeep or don't even remember
because we're fucking Hurtful.

Speaker 2 (01:58:40):
Yeah, that is such a hurtful thing to say.
There is no way that this guywould ever lay that kind of
burden on my daughters or mywife.
Would I ever lay that burden onyou guys Ever?
That's just not.

Speaker 1 (01:58:58):
It's a heavy one to carry outside that is not
something for you guys to carry.

Speaker 2 (01:59:03):
That's me.
I'm the one that picked thatbottle up.
I'm the one that put that shitin my body.
I'm the one that becamedependent on alcohol Me.

Speaker 3 (01:59:11):
Me.
But until that ownership'staken which at that time it
wasn't the family that loves uscarries it for us.
Oh yeah, because of that, loveRight, even though it wasn't
theirs to carry, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:59:24):
So I can't, I can't, yeah, I can't go back and I
can't put that toothpaste backin the tube.
I can't, I can't, I can't hatemyself for it, I can't be mad
about it, I can't, I turn itover.
That's.

(01:59:44):
All I can do is turn that overand I will continue to turn that
stuff over when it pops up.
You know, your mom and I have alot of conversations that still
happen and I have to stop andgo wow, oh, you know, some of
the stuff that her and I talkabout is just a to this day I
still, and you know what?

Speaker 3 (02:00:04):
But the good thing, about it is we can have this,
and because you're so is just tothis day, I still, and you know
what?
But the good thing about it iswe can have this, and because
you're sober, grandbabies, Imean, the gratitude comes right
back.
Yeah, yeah, that happened.
It sucks, let's have it.
But look where we are now.

Speaker 1 (02:00:17):
Look what.

Speaker 3 (02:00:17):
God has done now and continues to do.

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
A thousand percent.

Speaker 3 (02:00:20):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
This is where so funny you say that my boss has
been giving me shit for saying athousand percent well, you guys
, both daughters say it all thetime and it's just uh.
So yeah, you know, the one of mydaughters that I've and I've
said this from since I got sober, you've heard me say that the
one I worry about the most ofthis fucking disease going

(02:00:43):
downhill, or just the isms, justthe isms is my Miranda, because
she is just so much like methat we hold it, we carry it, we
fucking blame ourselves, wejust internalize every fucking
thing and the shitty committeebetween our ears is just they

(02:01:05):
don't make sense and it's allour fault.
It's all our fault, it's whatwe did, and the fear of losing
something that means so much tous scares the shit out of us
that we fight even harder tokeep it.
And it's miserable, it'sfucking miserable, and the steps
allowed me to let that the fuckgo.

Speaker 3 (02:01:27):
Well, it gives us tools when it comes of how to
let more go when it comes up onus and how to deal with these
things.

Speaker 2 (02:01:31):
And they crop up.
I got steps for you, jesusChrist.

Speaker 1 (02:01:34):
You know what's helped me a lot with that is I
was reading in the Bible whenJesus said the 40 days, his fast
of 40 days, and the devil wastempting him, tempting him so
heavy, and he said, get behindme, devil.
Yep, get behind me.
I can't tell you how many timesin a day that I not only

(02:01:56):
minister to myself but ministerto my sister-in-laws or other
people that I talk to who arereally struggling with
self-doubt or imposter syndromeor, you know, negative
negativity towards themselves.
I let them know to that and Itell myself on the regular these
negative feelings that you havein this negative self-talk,
that is not from God.
That is never ever the devil andthat is from in you.

(02:02:21):
When you allow that into yourhead and you allow that into
your heart, you have to.
I will literally be driving andbe like get behind me, devil,
because it is so.
This is so not for me that Iknow that all these positive
things that are happening in mylife, that are happening in my
family's life, that arehappening in my kids, that it is

(02:02:43):
.

Speaker 3 (02:02:43):
It's pissing somebody off.

Speaker 1 (02:02:44):
It's pissing somebody off and he does not.
He does not want to be happy.
He comes harder.

Speaker 3 (02:02:47):
He comes so much harder and like I had you and I
want you back.

Speaker 1 (02:02:50):
Yes, and it's like good sir, please get behind me,
I don't have the time for thistoday.
I got, oh, I got a lot ofthings to do so and for me that
has been so unbelievablypowerful and just powerful for
my mind to like you're doinggood.
Eradicate it.

Speaker 2 (02:03:07):
That right she's saying.
Right, there is our serenityprayer.
Yeah, god grant me, she's doinggood.

Speaker 3 (02:03:11):
No, but if you ever want to go deeper, oh my God,
some steps.
She's doing it, but you'redoing good, I love it.

Speaker 2 (02:03:18):
All right, sis, I fucking love you more than I can
even explain.
Say show my heart for both mygirls, Not, I mean, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:03:32):
Let me ask you a question because I'm not there
yet my kids I get 20, 23.
No families, yet no marriages.
What does it feel like?
I mean?
Because the goal of a parent,as you know, to see your kids
grow and get to a certain point,have family and be stable,
great human beings.

Speaker 2 (02:03:50):
You've got two stable great children.
I think the joy which does notcome by accident.

Speaker 3 (02:03:53):
They don't happen by accident.

Speaker 2 (02:03:54):
No, and I think one of my greatest joys in life is
my two son-in-laws.

Speaker 3 (02:04:00):
Well, yeah, you've said that, I mean yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
Talk to me about that .
What do you mean?
Um, because the joy that I knowthat my daughters we raised
katie and I raised them to havevery strong men around them.
Right, eric and pat are the twomost incredible men I could
have ever.
I couldn't have handpicked thembetter.
Eric is a huge supporter ofMiranda.
Patrick is a huge supporter ofMcKenna.

(02:04:34):
They cling to each other, they,they, um, accentuate each other
.
They, they just everything.
They're just perfect together.
And I, just as a father and asa mother, you can't you, you
tell you until it happens to youand you see it and you can
appreciate it.
Eric is by far a hero of mine.

(02:04:58):
Just to see what he's gonethrough, to watch Pat go through
what he's gone through to getto where they're at, it's just,
it's.
So, yeah, my greatest joys inlife are those two men for
taking care of my ladies andthat you couldn't have asked for

(02:05:22):
two better men than those twoguys.
They're amazing and, like Isaid, it's the greatest joy in
my life to go.
My girls are going to be okay.
You know, that's what I'mtalking about hopefully I get to
that spot my kids are going tobe okay but I'm just not there
yet.
You're just further down theroad and it's just Eric, to

(02:05:46):
watch him with my girls and towatch him with my grandson and
just to watch him be the man heis, is just.
You couldn't have drawn on afucking postcard a man better
than him.
Right, and it's just.
But it takes hard times tobuild strong men, oh my God.
What?
And it's just, but it takeshard times to build.
Oh my god, the you know whatwe've all gone through as a
family.

Speaker 3 (02:06:05):
You know, you, you know so that's why these times
are we're supposed to enjoy lord.

Speaker 1 (02:06:09):
Yeah, we're supposed to enjoy these I think it's
really important to especially.
You know, we live in ageneration now where it's like
be a strong female, be a strongwoman like no.
I will happily be subservientto my husband.
My husband is the head of ourhousehold.
My husband will never lead usastray.

(02:06:30):
And if he leads us astray thenI know that he is going to find
us a solution to get out of it.
And if he says this is thedirection in which we are going
to go, I'm going to trust andbelieve that we're going to be a
thousand percent Okay On theother side, because our faith in
God and God would never leavehim astray, and I will if that

(02:06:52):
man wants to open a jujitsuAcademy you know what?

Speaker 2 (02:06:54):
To watch these two knuckleheads to to, to watch
them make the decisions they'vemade over the last four years or
three years.
For, as a father, to sit backand go and cringe to to, to
watch them do it and but knowthey're walking by the faith of
god.
It's like, okay, you know andthey've, you know they've done.

(02:07:17):
It's just incredible.
It's just, and I can't wait towatch because, pat mckenna, you
know they're getting ready tostart their marriage together.
I can't wait to watch that.
You know Miranda's done withhaving kids.
And now I tell Pat McKenna allright, motherfuckers, get going.
I want more, you know.
So, anyways, yeah, miranda, Ilove you.

(02:07:38):
I love you more than, like Isaid, and if you want to reach
out to Miranda, you want to talkrecovery on filter podcast at
gmailcom and miranda was the onethat made me change that from
yes she did.

Speaker 3 (02:07:50):
Yeah, all the changes she's made have been good.
Now we got to get the, thetoilet and the damn shirt, oh my
god, please take those you siton the toilet don't you sounds
out my wife, even though they'retrue, yes, they are, but it was
time to you know, everythinghas its time and we are coming
up on it, brother.
Yes, we are I.

Speaker 2 (02:08:10):
I got it on video and tape that that rob has agreed
to come back and do another yearwith me.
First year is almost done and Iasked him to marry me for one
more year and he's agreed to it.
I can't, I can't go beyond that.

Speaker 3 (02:08:22):
I made him sign one more year and he's agreed to it.
I can't, I can't, go beyondthat.

Speaker 2 (02:08:25):
I made him sign one more year contract.
So anyway, baby, I love you.
We're going to jump on out ofhere.
Love you guys.
Bye.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you If you
did not come back next week, andwe'll try again.

Speaker 3 (02:08:44):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my, you can't say
that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:08:54):
Hey, thanks, rob.
Come back next week andhopefully something will be
different and something willsink in recovery unfiltered.

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