Through Her Eyes: What It's Like to Love an Alcoholic

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Jesus.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I can't work like this.
Go to work.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
I can't work like this shit.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
You sit on the toilet .
Don't you Use that as yourmeditation?

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Not my wife, not your wife, nor anybody listening to
this podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
Welcome to Covering Up Builders.
I'm Larry.

Speaker 4 (00:16):
I'm an alcoholic.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
I'm Rob, I'm also an alcoholic.
We are not professionals.
That's the end of it.
Rob Good, thank God of it.
Rob good, no thank god.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
However, you will hear fact, I'm over it.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Hi rob, hey, buddy, I am not going another step until
you brag about your son.
I don't brag.
Come on, don't be like that why?
Well, you already sent it outto but you brag asshole, brag
about your son.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Okay, I'll brag about come on, my son is 20 years old
.
Uh-huh.
He loves the lord.
He's a hard worker.
He's got great character.
He really can't lie.
He starts crying if he does.
He's a stud on the mat.
He just won a belt, yeah boy.
You know I went throughcharacter before.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
I know.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
That's why I mean, regardless of what he does on or
off the mat, I'm proud of whohe is Much more than what he
does, but he's a proud daddyright there that was fun.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
That was fun for me to see that picture when you
sent it to me.
I was sitting in the middle ofthe meeting that you didn't go
to.
I was sitting in the middle ofthe meeting and I saw that and I
was like, oh yeah, that's goingon instagram.
You know we don't put a wholelot of pictures of you up there,
so when I get an opportunity, Iwouldn't either.
Yeah, but you're a handsomelittle prick so I put you up on
there every once in a while oh,my wife thinks so hey, yes, we

(01:29):
are number 52 right here.
Baby, this one right here isgoing to drop on july.
Oh crap, I knew I was going todo that.
I think it's july.
Is it july 3rd?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
which is I don't know .
I'm guessing.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
No, it's gonna.
We dropped our first one lastyear on July 7th.
Okay, this one's going to dropon July 9th.
No, I'm sorry, no, no, no, I'msorry, you're right, it's the
second.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
So we were both wrong .
Whatever, we're both wrong.
So we had my number two, we hadmy number one, and now we're
going to do our wives.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
This is something you and I've spoke about since the
very beginning two wives weshould open that chapter to the
wives, to the wives we'll takeover and everyone will want to
watch us, not them and you wantto introduce your wife, then
I'll introduce mine this isbonnie, my wife of 20.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
how many years?
Five, 25 years, well, 25 yearsmarried.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Or four, I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Five 2001.
, 24.

Speaker 4 (02:30):
There you go 25 years together 24 years married
Attaboy.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
So this is my lovely wife, miss Katie.
You've heard us talk about bothof them multiple times, but
this is my pretty wife Katie.
We started dating her junioryear and my senior year in 1988.
And we got married May 18th1991.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
34 years, that'd be my freshman year in high school.
Hi baby.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
That's why it seems so crazy to hear you're married
in 2001.
We were married 10 years.
We've gone through some shitalready.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
We got married as kids.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
That's the year I graduated 91.

Speaker 3 (03:05):
91?
Yeah, we got married as kids.
That's the year I graduated, 91.
91?
Yeah, we got married aschildren.
We were little, we were not Imean, we were children, good
grief.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
You were, we were young, she probably wasn't, oh,
I was juvenile delinquent still.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Two and a half months after she turned 18.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
Yeah, but that was back in the 20s.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Sorry Mom, sorry Mom.
What were you 20?
Sorry Mom, I love you.
It was in the 60s.
What 20?
She was 21?
A whole different time.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
I was 91.
I was 21.

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, see, no, you were almost 21.
You were going to be 21 nextmonth.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
Yeah, I'm May 18th and my birthday's, june 18th,
wasn't even legal to drink no no21 yeah, he was 20 really and
turned 21 in june young buck.
Yeah, told you we were kids.
Yeah, we were kids, we had kidsat kids.
Yeah, I mean it was rough, butyou know what?
here's the thing look, lookwhere we are today I'm gonna

(03:57):
tell you right now I mean, Itold you guys, when I fell in
love with that girl right, shesat across from me in the
hospital in the hospital yeah,wearing a miniskirt, and I saw
her white panties.
I was like ladies I was like,yeah, that's my girl, right
there, I'm marrying her.
She was trying to be discreet,but I'm a perv, so I had no

(04:18):
problem.
I had no problem.

Speaker 1 (04:22):
what well the reason why you and I are both here with
our wives, dr Bob's Nightmaresays for some reason, we
alcoholics seem to have the giftof picking out the world's
finest women.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Why they should be subjected to the tortures we
inflict upon them.
I cannot explain.
You guys are crazy to put upwith the shit we've done.
Crazy, crazy, Hold on.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
You act like we knew going into it yeah, I know that.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
That's what it was gonna be right, yeah well, katie
had glimpses of it in highschool.
For me, I mean, you've known mesince I was six or five and you
didn't know any better to run.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
She was hoping I turned out like my dad.
Let's be honest, I've heardthese stories oh, I loved that
man yeah, that's funny I loveBobby.

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Isn't that funny.
You say you've known each othersince you were six and I was
seven when we moved from LosAngeles here and he lived around
the corner.
But I really didn't know him.
I didn't know who he was.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
She has heard the rumors, yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
We moved from Los Angeles when I was three, three
and they were the first familythat we met.
When we came here, him and mybrother started wrestling
together.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Oh, wow, yeah yeah, who's your brother?
Jason holbrook.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
He's older than you he's my age oh, the name sounds
super familiar.
I probably knew probably pickedon him because I was a prick in
high school.

Speaker 4 (05:44):
I think you guys went to school with my cousin Rodney
.
Well, yeah, rodney, yeah we hadtalked about that, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Yeah, but I went to school with the best one of all,
and that was Tammy.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
She's listening.
That's why he says that shit.

Speaker 3 (05:58):
I loved her oh, she was my little pocket midget
Loved her to death.
Loved her to death.
Well, you know what?
We're dancing around thesubject here.
So you know we went through.
When we first started this, wesaid there's two things we want
to do.
One was have Jason Allen on.
That was like the very firstthing.
And oh no, hold on.
Did I already talk about SoCalKate?

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Can you say?

Speaker 3 (06:17):
Jason A, jason A he.
Have I told our listeners aboutSoCal Kate?
Yet no, so since August, youknow I'm a horrible on social
media, right Horrible.
So I read Just a step above me,right, right, and I say that
very often.
So I have been one of thethings I was read somewhere or

(06:38):
something to is tag people thatyou follow.
Right, just tag people.
There's this, there's lady downin uh, she's in at a, at a
orange, and her name she has oninstagram is so cal cat and I've
been following her and becauseshe just she's sober for nine
years, got an amazing story.

(06:58):
She just sits.
Some of her posts are funnierand shit she's, she's awesome
she.
So I've been posting, I've beentagging her in almost every
post that we do right what doesthat?
mean when you tag somebody solike when I tag your picture,
your picture that I put oninstagram yesterday, I just put
tag her in it.
It's like like tag katie, Itagged logan, tagged bonnie, I

(07:19):
tagged everybody.
I wanted to see it go directly,okay, but somebody like her,
she's got to accept myfriendship, accept me, before
she can even see anything.
So I started sending that,almost everything.
I started tagging her aboutfour or five other people as
well, right and um, but this isthe one I wanted because she's
got such a.
She's just I love her storybecause she's so much.

(07:42):
Her instagram posts are funnierthan shit, right, she makes fun
of herself and that's what Ilike, right, that's what's fun.
And so, anyways, I kept tagging, kept tagging.
Finally, on Friday morning she,she just types back Hello there
.
Well, I didn't see it tillyesterday morning.
I wasn't, didn't go on to ourInstagram posts until after our

(08:07):
page, until after I did thething for Logan and you, and, uh
, I was like, oh my God, I waslike a little school boy.
Again, I'm like, oh my God, shetexted me back.
You know, I was like a littlekid.
And then I just wrote backcause it had been two days since
you said that.
So I texted back or DM her backand I'm like watching it going,
come on, come on, wait for theresponse.
And, like 30 minutes later sheresponded back.

(08:28):
We had a great conversation.
She's agreed to come on thepodcast In person In person,
right, because I was talking toher about, I was talking to her
about just doing it over Zoomand she's like no, I'd rather do
podcast in person.
And I'm like Where's she, shein person?
And I'm like where she's she'sfrom?
No, she has, she's from orange,right, her, uh, she has.
It's called Laguna shoresrecovery center, so she has two

(08:49):
of them.
She also does she's got arecovery center for animals, so
she's extremely involved in that.
And, um, I, like I said, I'veread part of her story.
You know the little bit thatthey put on Instagram, but, man,
I'm excited to get her.
She's agreed to come down here.
Um, she's going to come hereand I talked to Mary last night
about her doing a birthday,being a birthday speaker at

(09:10):
primary and then coming here onSaturday and recording.
Oh, that'd be cool.
I know, I hope it works out.
Like I said, I, I don't, Idon't, I want to cross my
fingers and pray and you knowshe's agreed to it.
You know, she's a she's likewhatever.
She's just so super excited.
I talked, you know, went fromtalking back and forth on
Instagram and then she sent meher phone number.
Then it was texting back andforth and then she just called

(09:31):
me, like I'm over this.
So she just called me.
It was awesome, I'm excited,yeah.
So, anyways, I want to get thatout there.
So, yeah, 52 weeks this isnumber 52 and we got the wives
on here and I'm so excited to gothrough this.
We've we've been, I've beenbeat up with my daughters for a

(09:52):
couple of weeks.
What are you looking at?

Speaker 1 (09:54):
Well, there's one guy I want to reach out to as well.
His name is James Hart, 54 fromDenver.
Right, okay, been listening tothis and I mean nice, well, you
sent that to me yeah, oh, yeah,yeah.
Sorry, been listening to thisand I mean nice Well, you sent
that to me.
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, sorry, Ishould have included a small
backstory James Hart, 54 yearsold, from Denver, 15 months of
recovery.
What I like about what he saidwas but I hit my head when I
jumped into a pool programheadfirst.

(10:15):
You know he's in, he's in itnow.
So, james, glad you listened,right, I mean we have.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
God has worked a lot through this program, right, I
mean I've got not just, not justCatherine, but there's there's
multiple people that all rightabout 48 really started reaching
out and started agreeing tocome onto the podcast.
So I'm excited because we'vekind of we've we've worked
through a lot of our group thatwe kind of hang out with right.

(10:44):
There's still a lot more outthere that you know.
We've worked through a lot ofour group that we kind of hang
out with Right.
Um, we, there's still a lotmore out there that you know.
We got Paul that's agreed tocome on.
But having these outside peoplegetting these other stories.
Yep, I talked to her yesterday.
Oh, she was, she was kind of onthe fence.
No, she ain't letting her goanywhere.
She's gone Um and um gotcha.
Yeah, I, I reeled her inyesterday with my, with your

(11:04):
charm, with my charm, Fuck.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
How much money did you?

Speaker 3 (11:10):
bribe her with.
Anyways.
So I'm dancing around thesubject here, so I'm going to
let Rob uh, yeah, you are.
You're going to start with.
How do you want to start this?
We're going to start withBonnie.
Yeah, bonnie, I got a questionfor you.
Yes, when did you know he wasan alcoholic?
I can answer that.
No, you're not.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
I asked Bonnie, okay, go ahead.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
It's actually funny.
I had a very hard time in thebeginning believing that he was
an alcoholic.
When Tammy came over to tell mehow bad my husband looked and
all this stuff kind of made memad.
I was raised by alcoholics.
I've been beat by alcoholics.
There's no way my husband?
He does not hit me, he does nottalk down to me, he doesn't

(11:52):
abuse our kids.
You know.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
He comes home, he drinks you know, goes back to
work.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
There you go.
He's never missed a day of work.
We've never missed a paycheck.
You ever missed a paycheck.
You know that doesn't happenwith alcoholics.
So I think the second week intomaynards when I went up there
and I got to see him, I realized, holy shit, how bad he was.
He was so bad just the eyecolor, the skin color the

(12:21):
swollen.
He always looks like kind ofshiny like greasy.
I guess you'd say just did not.
But I guess, since I was withhim every day, I didn't really
notice it.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
And then when I saw him, I hadn't seen him for two
weeks and I I couldn't believeit so leading up to that there I
mean we talked about you saidyou know you grew up with
alcoholics and blah blah, youknow that that whole thing not
blah, blah, that that's horrible.
But you grew up with, I meanyou did, I mean you grew up with
alcoholics and blah blah, youknow that that whole thing not
blah, blah, blah, that that'shorrible but you grew up with, I
mean you did.
I mean, you grew up with it.
You were judging his alcoholismbased on what your description,

(12:54):
not not your, yeah, yourdescription or your visual
visualization of an alcoholicwas, you know, and I think so
many people do the same thing,right, well, he's not living on
the street, he's not stealinganything, he's never had a DUI,
he's.
He's never lost a job, he'snever lost a paycheck.
He just drinks too much.
You know, all these yets, allthese yets.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Right, I did have a.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
DUI was before her Right.
But I mean during that periodof time and like katie talked
too, I mean you know she had she.
There was other signs.
I mean my health was going.
You know, katie will talk aboutthat pretty soon yeah, we got a
good story on that one we'lltell it that's what we're here
for it was thanksgiving.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
It was a year before you went to treatment no, not
quite that okay, but it wasthanksgiving about six months,
about seven months before I went.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
He woke up.
He was in a lot of pain,doubled over just puking up
blood, yeah he would not go tothe hospital.
For me, I was trying to get himto go to the hospital.
He wouldn't go to the hospital,but what?

Speaker 1 (13:53):
did I have you go do?
I was laying on the bathroomfloor and I would send her to
the freezer where the JackDaniels was, because I was
burning puking.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
Go ahead but he wouldn't let me take him to the
hospital, so I called steve hecalled butch and butch called
steve well, it was steve thatcame over and we got him to the.
They forget what the second astands for.
But we got to the hospital andthey're running all these tests

(14:26):
on him and it ended up being hisdoctor was one of Logan's very
good friends' dads, so that wasa little embarrassing.
But he starts telling us howbad his liver is, that it's like
three times its normal size andall this stuff, and, you know,

(14:47):
because of drinking he.
I remember he asked rob, do youhave a friend that can walk
your daughter down the aisle?
because you'll never make it oh,wow yeah, so, uh, when we got
home, rob explained to me thatit wasn't alcohol.
It was ageless mel, a vitaminhe'd been taking that caused all

(15:11):
these problems, and if he justkept taking the vitamin, he'll
be just fine, so Sorry, oh myGod, that's one I had not heard
yet, rob.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well, because at this time I also started having like
panic attacks, anxiety which Inever felt in my life.
I didn't know what these were,and so I go.

Speaker 4 (15:32):
Well, he woke me up telling me he was having a heart
attack oh yeah, anxiety attacks.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
So I took him to the hospital and that was in
sobriety that was early sobrietythey're just getting down.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
That was crazy and the anxiety attacks.
I lived that my 2002, 2001,.
Right around there they had torush me to the hospital in an
ambulance because they thought Iwas having a heart attack at
work.
Right, they rushed me to theheart, to the hospital.
That was the first time.
I didn't know what the hell itwas at.

(16:03):
I was just face, was just hot.
I felt like my whole chest wasjust an elephant was sitting on
top of me and they justbasically came in and gave me
some medicine and said sir,you're having what we call an
anxiety attack.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, they told me the same thing, like what the?

Speaker 3 (16:17):
I had no idea what the hell it was.
And then that was myintroduction to anxiety and you
know it got worse after that.
You know, and that's I mean,that's what I did for years,
that's why I drank, was I meanthat anxiety would go stupid,
and I mean I was on Xanax anddrinking and none of it would
calm that.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
None of it was calming that anxiety.
This is my first experiencewith it.
It was brutal.
So what else?
What other good times did wehave?
Oh, hold on.
When I was in the hospitalbecause this is the first time I
had went to she was going todrink with me.
Because she doesn't drink.
It gives her heartburn.
So the only time I've seen herdrunk was at her bachelorette
party.
When she came home, oh, thatwas bad, that was awesome, that

(16:59):
was so bad I tried to fight theneighbors.
But that's when times were good.
That's long before, right, youknow.
But so when times got hard orbad, after I failed the drug
test, is when my drinking reallygot.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
But that was fun, that was fun.

Speaker 3 (17:14):
Tell me about that story, tell us about that one.

Speaker 4 (17:17):
He comes home in the middle of the day, which is
weird.
Like I said, he doesn't misswork, right so?
And he was at that time workingovertime like crazy so
sponsored by powder he comeshome and I can't even describe
like the look on his face.
He'd been crying, he was aboutto cry and he's like I gotta

(17:39):
tell you something emily's, justlike two logan's not born yet.
Yeah he's like's, like, kind of.
I think I was.
Was I pregnant?

Speaker 1 (17:45):
with Logan yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
He's kind of shaking and in my I don't know why it
popped in my mind.
I was like did you get someoneelse pregnant?
Like what did you do?
Like what is this bad?
And he's like I have to findsomebody.
I popped a piss test and I'mlike, are you serious?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
I'm like okay, okay, whatever, as long as no one's
pregnant and you didn't cheat onme, whatever Dude in my mind I
had done the worst thingpossibly.
I mean, I had to leave work,you know.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
You thought you had failed your wife.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
I failed everybody.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
I did.
No, I didn't think I did.
I failed.
Everybody Right and I did, youdid.
And your dad was still aliveand working at that time.
He'd already passed away, butyou had some pretty good mentors
that you were working underthat were friends of your dad at
that time too, right oh yeah,but then again go ahead, old rob
, here, it was just a partything, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
I just went out and played.
It was a card game.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
It was a one-time thing I'm like oh so that's no
big deal, they're just beingstupid.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Right, she didn't know the truth.
Yet.
I told her that lie, the sameway as I told people at work.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
Right after you finished that 16 hours of videos
, you went back and told her thetruth.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
No, it was after the day when I came in from the
garage and hit my ass when Tammywas there.
Tammy was there and theneverything came out.
You know, alcoholic right, thepiss test.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
Well, I've been admitted what he did the night
before the wedding.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
Oh my.
God the day of the weddingTruth serum.

Speaker 4 (19:13):
Me and all my friends Cause.
Well, my friends smoked pot andstuff and I'm like, oh my gosh,
no, I'm getting married.
You know you can't be underanything like you have to be.
So I stayed the night with mymom, you know.
Yeah, he had a party at ourhouse with all kinds of stuff
that is funny.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yep, that is funny hashtag pattern to pattern
accelerants see he's coming ontothe social media.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
I'm gonna get you there sooner or later.
We're gonna have one for rob.
We're gonna have one mightyportagee.
That's gonna be his handle.
Yeah, the.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
The Mighty Portagee.
He sends them to mine.
I'll have people like sendingrequests.
I don't even know who this.
Oh yeah, yeah, they wanted tosee something, Just okay.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
That's funny.
I'm going to ask you anotherquestion.

Speaker 4 (20:05):
What about the day that they, the day they told?

Speaker 1 (20:06):
I told her no we were at the doctor's together.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Yes, we were sitting in front of Cook.
No See, I don't remember Onething with me.
I shove everything down and Idon't deal with it again.
We don't talk about it If Ihave to fake myself out and lie
to myself to get myself throughit for that time.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
I had a broken leg yeah, so I was on 90.
The story I told was that right.
I was on 99.
He called me from that becausewe didn't think nothing of it,
because we were told twice,three times by three different
doctors, two times it's notcancer, right?
So that I didn't think thebiopsy would be anything.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
You know I was driving down 99 getting parts
and it was funny, I actuallywanted the biopsy because I was
being a smart ass.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
She's the one that wanted it.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
You know what I mean.
No, we're not going to go everyyear having to take these
stupid tests that don't show.
No, do it, and I just figured.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
So I got it.
He called me Dr Cook.
I said well, I can't get to youright now.
Guys did that, told my crewwhere I gotta go, got back in
the car, called terry, henry uh,dwight and aaron schaefer, for
aaron was first telling whatthis is when the biopsy came
back so everybody startedpraying.
I wasn't calling her on thephone to tell her.

(21:13):
No, no, you've said that beforeI got back how I got back home
she sat on the I go you need tosit down, so you sat on the bed
and I said that biopsy, that wetook it's cancer see, that's how
messed up was.

Speaker 4 (21:23):
I don't even remember that.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
Now get up we're gonna go see because the kids
weren't home yet we're gonna gosee the doctors.
We saw the doctor and he wasn'tthere because he had told me
twice that it wasn't.
So I think he knew I was coming.
I think he left and there was afemale doctor that she kind of
told me this is what it is, thisis where you're at, this is
we're gonna send you, and thenwhen we were off and they during
covid, but yet it was serious,so they, they didn't.

(21:46):
That's crazy, that I mean fuckaround you.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I mean, think about that where these hospitals were
just buried with covid patientsand now you got to go fight
through not only the covid partof it.

Speaker 4 (21:57):
See, that's funny, though, because we were when I
was taking him for his radiationtreatments and then broken leg.
Yeah, the broken leg Leave heralone.

Speaker 3 (22:07):
She's embracing it.
Well, tell him about the brokenleg.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
When I take him to radiation I would just sit out
there.
He was getting a cast changeright.
Like I would, not.
You weren't allowed to saycancer, like don't call me and
ask me how he's doing, don'tacknowledge it, don't talk to me
about it.
Let me do what I need to do andI'll deal with it another time.
So, but will you Probably not?

(22:31):
You were just saying you shovedit all in.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:34):
I still haven't dealt with it.
Like when people bring it upnow.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
I cut it off.
Well, see when when we, rob andI, were talking about it last
week when we were finishing upour other podcast, I go, you
know I'm going to bring up thecancer to Bonnie.
He goes, she's just going tosay it's a broken leg.
And then you did.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
I try and glance over it as much as I can give as
little as possible.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
I can tell you this, Bonnie In the time that I've
known Rob, which is a littleover three years, and the time
in here, his discussions aboutthe struggles with the recovery
from alcohol was not evenremotely like the recovery I'm
talking about his wife, you.
The struggles that you wentthrough was worse through that

(23:18):
period of cancer than it was hisalcohol.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
By far.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
And I've always said this it doesn't matter if we're
battling and it talks about itin our book, right, it doesn't
matter if we're battling canceror alcoholism or it's a disease.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I have a question for my wife.
We've talked about this, but Iwant you to cause.
You had two conversations, twomeaningful conversations, with
God One before my, where I gotsober.
I want you to talk about that.
And the conversation you hadwith God, one before I got sober
.
I want you to talk about that.
And the conversation you hadwith God about when I was going
through cancer.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
No, no, I'll talk about the recovery one, not the
cancer one.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
About which part?

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well, would you ask him.
And what did he do?

Speaker 4 (24:03):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
The cancer one is actually a better conversation,
but go ahead.

Speaker 4 (24:08):
I was actually mad that he got to leave for 30 days
In recovery.
Yeah, I'm with the kids, youget a vacation.
Are you kidding me Like I haveto stay home by myself?
That's funny.
When we first went up there,when we took him to Maynard's, I
actually got into it with Chris.
Chris is all.
You can't go that way.
I told him shut up, this is myhusband, I'll go wherever I want

(24:29):
.
And then he was like no, yougot to leave.
And I'm like no, I don't haveto actually like what are you
going to do?
And Tammy's like no.
So we did end up leaving, whichshe stayed with me a week.
I'm very grateful for that but.
I don't think I would have gotthrough that without her.

(24:50):
But then, like after, well, andthen when he came home, I was
mad too because I was likefinally I get some help with
kids.
90 meetings in 90 days, likewhat, really?
But Probably about like a yearinto it, I used to have, like I
was telling you, my lists.
I lived by lists.

(25:10):
I did everything on my ownpretty much.
So I lived by the list.
It had to go this way or I'djust lose it.
That was one of the firstthings that he wanted gone, and
he eased into it a lot too,because I'll say I felt like he
was stepping on my job.
I've raised the kids up to thispoint.
I've done everything.
You went to work, you made themoney.

(25:32):
Now you're gonna come step inand be dead you know and try and
discipline my kids.
I will say, when I let go ofthat, best thing I ever did was
getting rid of the lists andletting him step up.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (25:46):
The kids were better.
There was no more yelling inthe house Um.
I didn't yell, I did.
I yelled quite a bit.
Uh, the lists were gone.
It just was so smooth.
But I remember getting to apoint before he went into rehab
like would it be easier on myown?

Speaker 3 (26:05):
I'm doing it anyways oh wow, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
So you were sort of yeah be easier on my own what
god said.
And no, I always feel weirdsaying I felt god talk to me
like I heard this podcast isbecause of that tell me, just
hold on right, just wait, youwill get everything you want.
Just wait.
And then probably what about,like I'd say, three or four

(26:31):
years into it?
I remember telling him Should Iadmit it or yeah?
If I would have walked away andsaw the man he is now with
another woman, I would havewaited till the weekend I had
the kids.
They would have both beenlocked in our house and I'd have
burned them both to the ground.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
I would have watched them both burn.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
He said that before.

Speaker 4 (26:52):
Yeah, I would have lit them both on fire, like
that's what I wanted.
Someone else has it.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Right.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
So I don't try and tell other women how they should
feel or what to do.
I think it's a differentsituation for me.
I wasn't abused, you know.
I wasn't hurt, my kids weren'thurt.
But if you can work it out, Ithink it's right so much better
to work out.
I think, if you see, wouldn'tyou be mad to see someone else

(27:21):
get this one?
Oh for sure, yeah, especially.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
I mean, you really didn't go through tough times
because you really didn't knowwhat his troubles were.
I mean, maybe you did see someof that towards the end, yeah,
or towards when you knew that heneeded to go to rehab as well.
But I saw a lot and I walkedthrough a lot with my girls as

(27:46):
well, you know, and and not notjust my girls, you know, at that
point it was eric was a firmpart of our life as well.
But we also had grandkids.
You know too that we were.
You know, mir Miranda didn'twant Larry driving with the kids
.
She'd say, hey, can you stop byand pick up my kids?

(28:07):
And I'd say, well, your dad'shome, but I don't want my dad to
get them Because she knew thathe wasn't a safe choice for her
kids either.
So there was that part of itthat was just rough, yeah, you
know.
And then having to explain tomy kids some other things, my
girls to talk to them aboutthings that hard had we not

(28:28):
stuck in this together and himto have the life that he has now

(28:49):
with someone else.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
I feel lucky that our kids were so little.
Logan has no memories of Robever leaving.
He has no memories of you knowthat dad.
Yeah, emily, she remembersgoing to Maynard'sards, but I
think she thought we went as afamily.
I don't think she she waspissed at her, though she was
very mad at me for what shethought I made her dad leave she

(29:14):
was a bitch how old was she oh,she was six or seven.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yeah, oh, she was old enough to know better.

Speaker 4 (29:22):
Oh, she would slam the She'd scream at me to shut
up, oh wow, and I was like if weweren't in this situation, I'd
probably kick you in your face.
Yeah, we're not going to dothat Like oh, she was mad,
that's funny she was so mad.
She has Portuguese attitude.
She was mad.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
Bonnie's second prayer, after god told her just
wait.
So I'm 10 years sober gettingready to go through cancer.
She prayed.
She doesn't tell me this tilltwo years ago, maybe not even
that, because she doesn't talkabout it.
Takes her years to.
Oh, by the way, she had askedgod she goes, do you let me?
You told me to wait and I did.
You gave me this and now you'regonna fucking take it from me
this way.
And what did he tell you?
Sorry.

Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
And he didn't.
And here we are, you know.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
I grew up with a dad, yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Go ahead.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
I grew up without a dad.
Yeah, go ahead.
I grew up without a dad that'swhat was hard, right.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Don't take this guy away from the kids now.
And he didn't.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, but that's again what you didn't want for
your kids.
You didn't want that.
I don't want my girls tostruggle or to go through what I
did.
You know.
I don't want them to have ahusband who has struggles, and
I'm thankful that both of ourboys walked through this, you

(31:08):
know from.
I mean because Larry's onlythree years now, so Pat's been
in our lives for five years andEric's been in our lives for 15.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
So but I have a question.
Katie, with two things came upwith the girls that I haven't
heard from him Cause he doesn'tknow.
You know he didn't know thetalks going on within the family
, but there were talks of youwith your daughters, your adult
daughters.
Hey, we might need to preparefor dad him being gone out of
the house.
So was that you booting andgiving him the boot?

(31:39):
Are you leaving or both?
Or were you not decided?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
so when I really saw that it was going down a
direction which I knew that itwas going to be not good, I had
to start making sure that wewere okay financially without

(32:04):
Larry as well.
So where we were at, I couldhave made the house payment.
I, you know, maybe maybe gotrid of my car and, you know,
just bought something outrightthat I could drive and we would
be financially okay that way.
But when it was really bad, patand McKenna were living with us

(32:25):
and I literally had aconversation.
You know we weren't chargingthem anything, we weren't asking
anything of them financially.
But I said, would you stay andhelp, just because I didn't want
to lose the house, just to beable to continue to stay here,
at least until things werefigured out, whether he went on

(32:46):
his own way and did something,or he finally got help, or
whatever the case may be.
So you know, I, I knew that youknow I couldn't do it on my own
, but with some help with themtoo, that I could and know that
we could walk away, because youknow, I know there's a ton of
pressure on Larry and he's hehas put himself in these big

(33:07):
positions for a very long time,but he's very good at what he
does.
No matter where he's been, he'salways been successful and he's
never left a job and gone back,except for one time.
It was a massive decision thatwasn't so good, but we recovered
and his trajectory has alwaysjust been higher and higher

(33:31):
every time.
And he's never failed toprovide for us Never, and I'm
very grateful for that.
And he's never failed toprovide for us never, and I'm
very grateful for that, becausehe's taking care of his
princesses and he calls me aprincess which I'm his queen
come on now.
Come on now, come on sorry Ikeep telling him that but
anyways, I just knew that if Icould figure out a way to be

(33:54):
able to stay in our house and tohave some stability, then maybe
he would figure things out alittle bit too.
I didn't think that he wantedto lose his family, but the only
thing that he could see was hisown pain and and his anguish of

(34:16):
really what he was goingthrough.
But no matter what I said ordid, it was Larry, this, you
know this alcohol is only makingyou more depressed, and he just
could not see through that.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
What would his reaction be?
Anger?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
No Denial, it was very rare that he was angry.
You know, there were othersituations and I think I pushed
him sometimes with some thingsthat were happening in our lives
.
Those moments made him veryangry.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
I got you, but you want to know one thing that was
said that he doesn't know.
He found out last week or thelast was that the day you got,
the day where he decided thisI'm done with the Pat phone call

(35:13):
.
But that wasn't.
You were coming home and youhadn't talked to him for me like
50 minutes, but yet you wereheaded here because you were
worried that you were I mean,you were with, he was going to
do something.
There was there was.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
There was a couple of situations over the years which
I mean I think I have a betterpinpoint of, when things kind of
took a different turn.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
When was that?
Was that the the?
I see it as the truckingcompany, you know, when he, when
he, when he really invested inthe truck and then kind of lost
it.
Well, just listen to him,that's kind of when his
depression really hit.
You know, the pride and egotook a shot.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
For me, that's when my depression really.
But what did you see, Katie?

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:58):
Hit it, don't hold back.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Don't hold back.
This is for another wife thatmay need to hear these things.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
It's still hard, it's hard.
It's hard to watch him.
I mean, you don't want to hurtother people.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
I got you.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
So I mean, do I think there were some situations?
Yes, I mean, Larry was a lot offun when he was drinking and
you know, it became not fun forme really quickly as well,
because every you know I'm ahuge disney fan, love disneyland

(36:37):
.
We were pass holders for years.
We're now pass holders againand you know, nothing brings me
more joy than seeing mygrandkids at disney.
And I wish that for everyone,because the magic is just as
magical as it was with your ownkids, but with your grandkids
it's even more magical.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Why is that?

Speaker 2 (36:55):
I don't know guys, because we're not there.
You guys, you've had kids andnow you have grandkids, but why
is that?
You know, grandkids are justsuch a massive blessing.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Is it because you can give them back?

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Maybe I don't know I think too, because you also
appreciate.
You know you're living in chaosat first With your own, with I
mean, you know you're living inchaos at first, you know with
your own and you're just tryingto survive and it's just like so
much.
I mean, bonnie had to have alist.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
And if you get it from that fucking list, hell's
going to be paid.
And then and then, as westarted, they started walking
the spiritual road with me.
God, not wasn't me God startedfucking with her list.
She couldn't, and just like,remember the first time where
katie couldn't say a little bit,not a little bit, I mean
blowing them up.

(37:43):
Yes, in a way she couldn't lookat me well, you're drunk, I'm
sober, and I didn't do it.

Speaker 3 (37:45):
He did it just kind of like you remember when you,
yeah, when I yeah told katie shewas being a brat, yeah she
couldn't say well, you drunk,mother.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Oh, no, no yeah, she couldn't.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
That was the very first time and I talked about
that on Miranda's when you heard30th birthday and you were
pissed off about a lot of thingsand you were being a brat, and
I turned and looked at you andgo, you're being a fucking brat.
And you had no response to mebecause you couldn't call me a
drunk and we ended up having agreat night after that, anyways.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
You could have thought of some other words, I'm
sure.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
I've probably said them to him many times.
That's all right.
You know, life happens.
Oh yeah, you know paths that youdon't necessarily want to walk
down and you're forced to and itsucks.
And it's not just alcoholism,and it's not drug abuse or

(38:36):
anything like that.
It's just things that happenwithin the dynamics of your own
family.
Sometimes, whether it be cancer, somebody else is sick.
There's something else that'shappening and you have to rely
on your faith, which I meanundoubtedly I did, and I think I
questioned a little bit thentoo, and I think that sucks

(38:59):
because you don't want to tohave a why me kind of a thing,
and I think I did have a why meor why is this happening?
And I didn't want somebody tothink differently of me or, you
know, like Larry with thisalcoholism, I didn't want people
to think terrible of himbecause he's been a good dad and
a great provider and he's agood husband.

(39:21):
He just had a problem.

Speaker 4 (39:25):
That's funny because when we were dating, you know
how you kind of cut what youwant in a man, how you want it
to be or whatever.
I wanted the exact opposite ofmy family.
I did not want any similartraits, just opposite of what I
was raised with, and you got it.

(39:47):
No, I did not, I got thealcoholic.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
You know, and my dad his.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
What I am now.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
No now it's way better.
My dad's dad was an alcoholic,and a not very nice alcoholic,
and he saw a lot when he wasyoung, and so in my house there
wasn't I mean, yeah, they wouldhave drinks, cocktails, whatever
else, but never at any pointdid I question, nor did I think

(40:18):
that my dad had a problem.
My mom never, you know.
Everything was within reason so, and with Larry for a long time
it was too so, until it wasn'tyeah.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
So and yeah, and it's , and it almost seems like it
came on all of a sudden.
Huh, but you know it didn'tCorrect Like it just hits you at
one time, but you didn't seethe lead up.
I don't know.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
You know, and the other side of that is, I can
almost pinpoint.
You know, just like gears in atruck.
You know one through 10, I canalmost tell you my first, second
, third, fourth, all the way to.
I can tell you my first, second, third, fourth, all the way to.
I can't to, all the way tillit's an overdrive in the 10th
gear to where it was so bad Iwas wide open with my alcoholism

(41:03):
.
Right, I can, literally I in mymind, I can remember each step
along the way where it just gota little worse, just a little
worse, just a little worse in mymind kind of I accelerated fast
mine went over.
It was a long period of time nowthat from eighth gear to tenth
gear, yeah it went, it went fastand for her and I are opposites

(41:23):
.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
I would go through cancer and she knows what I went
through.
I mean, it's funny when youhear people talk about pain in
my white women.
You know what they're.
When she was talking to me, theday someone's at a 10, she's
like motherfucker.
I know what a 10 looks like youknow I've lived with it, but I
would go through cancer 10 timesagain before I'd go through

(41:44):
early sobriety, once Iunderstand what you're talking
about she would rather me gothrough.
I'd go through sobriety againbefore because it was just me in
early sobriety, she didn't seeany of what was going on in here
.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
That is very crucial for somebody to explain that
more.
I exactly know what you mean.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
Well, I had buried and carried shit for years I
mean for years, right Like beingmolested.
Didn't come out until my secondset of steps.
I mean not that that's a bigdeal to some people.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Well, it is a big deal.
Yeah, but I mean not thatthat's a big deal to some people
.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
It is a big deal, yeah, but it's just a big
fucking deal.

Speaker 4 (42:19):
It's why my wife wouldn't let the people bury it.
Babies no one but family.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
But I've been thinking that I didn't feel for
years.
And then when I got sober youknow that that's the reason when
I work with men and they, Itell them listen, call me, I
don't give a shit if it's one,two, three in the morning, we'll
have a 20 minute company.
Matt G, this is for you, Idon't care what time it is, you
call me, we'll have a 20 minuteconversation.

(42:42):
You'll be good, I'll be good,we'll get some sleep.
I didn't have that.
I didn't have that afforded tome, which is fine.
Maybe that's God's way.
Suffer through it.
And I suffered hard in earlysobriety.
I had good moments, right, butthat night I'd call them the
night terrors, where the anxietywould show up that I never felt
.
I felt at the end of alcoholismand I got sober.

(43:02):
First year to two, year to threeyear, I would have moments at
night.
It was just many times or not,I shouldn't say many three times
I'd had a gun in my hand andI'd sleep in the living room at
the time because I still snoredbad on the floor, and then we
would switch back.
She'd be in the living roomwe're not in bed together for a
while and I'd come to her.
She doesn't remember this.
And I would wake her up.
I would tell her I love herwith my 45 in my hand because

(43:24):
I'm going home.
And then I'd get out there.
This happened three timesbecause it was okay.
Who's going to see me?
Oh, the kids are going to findme, fuck this.
And then I would pray, I meanthe whole time praying.
I had a rough early sobriety.
I'd go through cancer againbefore that.
I would yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
And I understood and cancer sucked, and I've heard
you explain that.
And on the opposite side ofthat, bonnie didn't see the
internal suffer you were goingto.
No, she only saw the outternalsuffer through cancer.
Correct, and that's where youknow.
Katie has watched me go through24 surgeries.

(44:02):
24 surgeries she's had to sitin that waiting room and worry
about me, some of them minor,some of them pretty freaking
major.
I've had a couple major onesand she's had to sit in that and
she's seen me battle throughthat pain and I think for her I
don't know how would you answerthat question what would you

(44:23):
rather see me go through again,one of those surgery boy, you're
going to have to watch a couplemore surgeries anyway, but
watching me go through thesobriety of going through that
recovery process or watching mebe a drunk?

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I mean your physical condition is hard for me because
you're, no matter what surgeryyou have had, you still have
pain, and so there's there'sthat you know that you're not.
I don't think that there'sgoing to be a point in your life
where you're really pain freeand that makes me sad for you
because you're not.
Because not that it's a badquality of life, it's just you

(45:00):
feel so restricted.

Speaker 3 (45:02):
You feel like less of a man.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Yes, it's hard, like you can well, you're not,
because you're doing things thatyou shouldn't be doing, but we
feel like that I do.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
I feel useless and it's not something that we can
break.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
I think too, with his situation, with the pain that
he was in and those things itonly added to his depression.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Oh, yeah, big time.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Greatly, but that was not something that he was
really even putting a thumb onand saying.
I think this ties back to thisor what I'm going through, and I
think that, again, he was goodtime, larry, and you know he was
fun and so he would drink, andit just got to a point where it
wasn't fun anymore, where Iwasn't for me either yeah, and

(45:50):
again on my side, she didn't seewhat I was going through on the
inside right getting well, Iwas because I was at meetings
every day for three years.

Speaker 1 (45:59):
Not my other layer took me to meetings every day,
came and picked me up and Ididn't see it on her face the
alcoholism.
But I did see it on her facegoing through cancer, and I know
what she would do for me.
I told the story.
She doesn't really listen tothe podcast, it doesn't bother
me.
It on her face going throughcancer.
I would come out and I knowwhat she would do for me.
I told the story when I would,because she doesn't really
listen to the podcast, itdoesn't bother me.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Neither does Katie.
Katie listens to it when I'mediting.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I get a lot of it because he's editing, so I'm
hearing all of these things.

Speaker 1 (46:30):
Which I appreciate because you have a lot of great
input.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Well, thank you.
I mean, I am a producer.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
She's a CFFS.
That's, for fuck's sake,studios.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
I know you know why?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Because every time I turned around and you know, 52
weeks ago, larry was like I needanother thousand dollars.
For fuck's sakes that's how Ifelt about it.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
I was like larry oh my gosh find a cheaper hobby
just she hasn't seen any of thevideo.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
No, I haven't, and you know what hey, baby, we
haven't paid anything.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
This I'm just.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
I just sit here for free trust me, you're you're
paying to me is sitting hererecord here for free any longer,
except for you two.
Sorry, everybody, you knowwe're kind of getting off the
topic and that's fine, I mean, Iknow huh.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
You know, there's a lot of things, yeah, and I'm
going to bring something up andI know this is hold on.
You had said in your early daysof sobriety that you had your
gun.
And there was a period in ourlives and I want to say that was
even before it got reallybefore, before I feel like it

(47:45):
really took a downhill slide.
That larry was obviouslydealing with some depression,
which I don't think I had seenthe extent of it until he had
said some things.
But you know, I pretty muchthought, okay, you don't need to
drink anyways.
We you know alcohol needs to begone but took it as far as we

(48:09):
took all of his shotguns, hishandguns, took it all up to my
mom and dad's and, you know, hadit up there.
We had no alcohol in the housewhatsoever.
But you know, I mean I wastrying to believe that he was
not going to drink and that hewas, you know, going to take

(48:30):
things seriously, like, hey, wereally need to back off this.
You know we need not to drink,we need not to have this in the
house, because I'm concernedabout you.
And I think it did help alittle.
But he was just going behind.

Speaker 4 (48:45):
When they want to get it, they'll get it, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
I mean we had taken steps and measures, especially
towards the end.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yes, the locked locked refrigerator so.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Pat and Ken.
I could still have some alcoholif they wanted it.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
And they would break in.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Still yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Or he'd get into the he got in the closet, got some
of Pat's whiskey that he didn'tlike.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
Okay, well, you can't make fun of that.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
What Because say something.

Speaker 4 (49:12):
Okay, when we first got together, I was huge in
NASCAR I was waiting for her tobring this one up.
I loved NASCAR.
Okay, junior Johnson came outwith White Lightning, moonshine
and you could get thesecollector bottles and I got one.
I was so excited, I got one.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
It was number two.

Speaker 4 (49:32):
Yes, it was.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
So funny.

Speaker 4 (49:38):
A couple of years after he's been sober and
through all this stuff, headmits that it's water that's in
that bottle he bought us likeyou were ever gonna drink it.
Yeah, drink the moonshine outof it it wasn't that good.
Anyway, it was thankful he leftthe bottle and didn't like try
and get rid of the evidence.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
So I still and it's autographed, yeah I still have
the bottle, but let's give larrysome kudos here in this
situation about the wine larryhas a magnum of wine with the
football team, his high schoolfootball team who went to
championships section champions,and a lovely friend of ours put

(50:15):
it on his favorite wine, whichwasn't a big wine drinker but he
liked this one, and that wasthe only bottle that he did not
open.

Speaker 4 (50:23):
Oh, that's funny.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Yeah, yeah, we still have it.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
You know why I didn't open it?
Because it has a wax seal on itand everybody would have
noticed.
I swear to God, no.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
I believe this.
This wouldn't have the likelittle tape thing.
No, this one would have thelittle tape.

Speaker 3 (50:33):
Thing that went over the cork you could tape that
down with clear tape and nobodyfrom afar you couldn't see it.
What do?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
you think Rob did, it's done.
That's exactly what I did.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
No, trust me, you never even told me that, but I
can tell you that's how I did it.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
It's clear tape, but far enough away you won't see it
.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
And if it means anything, it wasn the fucking
night and you want to know whatthat was like getting down
whatever the fuck they were,they were fucking nasty tomato
bullshit we don't drink fortaste.
I'm gonna tell you right nowI'd look at the back of the
refrigerator.
Go oh fuck, go throughwithdrawals or drink that.
What's the decision gonna be?
Drink it, drink it yeah, youknow, robberies you know?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
and me I'd be like who was drinking these?
And then I'm like, are youdrinking those?
And she's like, no, it's not me.
And I knew she wasn't lyingbecause she was looking at me
like I was kind of crazy and I'mlike are you drinking those?

Speaker 3 (51:30):
he's like it's not me the fuck I wouldn't drink those
nasty ass things.
What's wrong with you?
You know that what rob wasbringing up, I haven't talked
about nasty ass things.
What's wrong with you?
You know that what rob wasbringing up, I haven't talked
about this in a very long timebut, katie dear, it was during
covid and katie had this stellarosa wine that she really liked,
right, and it was extremelyhard to get during covid.
Well, I would start getting thewithdrawals around two, 30,

(51:54):
three o'clock in the morning andI one morning I was like I was
just coming out of my mind.
I needed something, opened upthe pantry door and in the back
was bottle that Stella Rosa, andI'm like, oh my God, I don't
know what I'm going to do.
So well, I ended up opening it.
I was going to say you knewwhat?

Speaker 4 (52:14):
I'm going to do so.
Well, I ended up opening it.
I was going to say you knewwhich you were going to do.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
No, I knew no.
Bonnie.
In my mind I'm thinking how I'mgoing to be able to hide it,
right?
No, we're going to drink it.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Oh, I'm going to drink it.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
The dilemma was how am I going to hide it and
replace it Before she finds out,before she finds out?
So I drank it about 5.15.
I knew one of my customers thatowns a liquor store over in
Riverbank.
I knew that he was selling itbecause that's where we bought
those at and I got up about 5.15and I ran to Riverbank right

(52:48):
and I finished the whole bottle,then two drinks.
It was gone.
I went to Riverbank as soon ashe opened up at 6 o'clock.
I went in to grab a bottle andas I grabbed the one bottle I'm
like might as well get anotherone.
So I grabbed two of thosebottles, drank the one on the
way home, came home, put theother one in the back of the
pantry before if you were at aliquor store, why didn't you buy

(53:09):
her three bottles of her wine?

Speaker 4 (53:10):
grab something for you on the way home, bonnie,
that would require that wouldrequire sane thought process
insanity, fucking alcohol whenyou're, when you're not yeah,
it's insanity.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
Insanity for even doing it.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
For god's sakes, it's like tell me about the gate.
Remember the gatorade?
I went with jack and coke, jackand gatorade because it was
healthier.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
Gatorade was healthier than coke less
calories wouldn't dehydrate youInsanity.
Look I'm being healthy with mydrinking.
Aren't you proud?

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Just insanity.
Check this out right when myliver, my pancreas started.

Speaker 2 (53:53):
I was drinking, Coors .

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Light and then I went to Make a love ultra.
No, no, no, no, not yet, notyet.
I went from Coors Light and Iwas drinking a 36 pack a day,
easily right.
It's like water at this pointand I'm like I can buy the 805's
With more alcohol For about thesame price.
So I started drinking the 805's.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Well, because it had more alcohol and I needed more
alcohol Because at this point,my body was just starting to
Stop working off alcohol,because it had more alcohol and
I needed more alcohol because atthis point, at this point, my
body was just starting to juststop working off alcohol and so
I started drinking that 805.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
And then that's when my pancreatitis and everything
really started getting bad andmy the, the, just the liver was
just horrible and in my mindit's the beer.
I had to go back to Mecca loveultra, because it's that 805 was
getting to me.
Yeah, that was the insanity ofmy thought process he ended on.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
We started with jack daniels and then, I think, went
to maker's mark because it wascheaper and I think, at the end
canadian mist we ended oncanadian, I ended on kessler's.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
I have a family from Canada and that's their drink of
choice Canadian.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
Yeah, I went from drinking Crown every morning to
Kessler's.
I would not stoop to vodka.
No, I wouldn't have never doneit.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Oh wait, it's got to be brown whiskey.
No, I would drink it.
If it was in the house, youwould drink it.
No.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Katie, I would have drank anything.
She's right, I would know Iwould too.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
But Okay, you want insanity and this whole part of
it.
Larry was actually takingadvice from another alcoholic
when he was having all of thesehealth problems.
You know he's bloated and he'she just.
You know he feels like I mean Iwould make a lovely dinner and
everybody else would be scarfingit down and I go.

(55:32):
What's wrong?
Do you not like it?
It tastes like shit it down andI go what's wrong, do you not
like it?

Speaker 4 (55:38):
it tastes like shit.
I can't even tell you how manytimes I've not remade things
because it tasted like shitanyways, my point is he was
talking to another alcoholic atwork and oh he's like oh, when
you feel like that, I just drinkthat alkaline water there you
go.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
I had, I'd forgotten about that.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Your acid levels too high, your acid levels, your ph
and your body is all messed up.
So he tells me you know he, youknow this gentleman does have a
drinking problem.
I knew it, he had talked to meabout it.
And he tells me this and he wasjust like maybe I should try
that alkaline water.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
And I was like, okay, let's do this so, yeah, isn't
it funny how we're like yes,let's try something new, yes,
let's do this.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
That's gotta work for that guy yeah, it had to work
for him and, trust me, I mean,we probably had a good 120
dollars out in this alkalinewater that he drank, I'm sure,
with his whiskey is it becauseyour taste buds were shot, or
you?

Speaker 3 (56:38):
I had so much acid in my I had so much acid in my
mouth, it was in my mouth.
I got you.
I mean, I just couldn't.
No matter what I ate, no matterwhat it, the only thing that I
could drink was alcohol and well, I had to drink coming up with
twice a year because if I that'sthe one that would I'd be dry
heaving on mondays.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
I'd be dry heaving because I didn't drink on
sundays usually, or I didn'tcouldn't drink all day on
sundays because I had to work.
I never drank before work soI'd be dry, even telling myself
fuck, you know, I'm done.
I'm done by the afternoon.
Well, shit, she's gonna have agreat dinner because she and if
I don't eat it, she, she's goingto know, because you fucking
drank so much.
That's what she's going tothink in my mind.
So I'll just have a half pint,which will settle my stomach

(57:18):
down.
I can eat dinner, she won't bemad.
That's how I'll talk myselfinto the next.
And I never get a half pint.
Who the fuck buys a half pint?
Get a fifth.
I did.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Okay, well, when we cleaned out his truck when I had
to, when he was at Maynard's,and you go for that counseling
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Tell them what you did with the house too.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
They're like you have to do everything opposite.
Now you know there's got to bethis great big change.
I painted my house.
I took things from thatcupboard, put them in that
cupboard.
That cupboard went to thatcupboard.
I did all this stuff right.
I had to get everything cleanedout.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
No Listerine yeah.

Speaker 4 (57:58):
I had to get rid of all my vanilla, all my extracts,
my mouthwashes, perfumes, umbody sprays.
Anything that said it hadalcohol had to be out of the
house.
I went through his truckbecause he didn't have a work
truck.
Then he had his black dodge.
No exaggeration.
At least 300 of those littleairplane bottles of Jack Daniels
or, um, what is it?

(58:20):
Crown.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (58:23):
If that wasn't enough , I start cleaning the garage,
the most random places.
I would find bottles in themost random, shoved in shoes,
like who, like I don't.
There were just bottles shovedeverywhere, like and I didn't
have to hide it yeah, but I didno, and that's toward at the end
.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
I mean, I hid my whiskey.
Well, I thought I did for along time, because when they
know beer.
Yeah, when the beer stoppedworking, fuck beer I well, I
know, but that's what I coulddrink in the open.
If I had just started drinkingwhiskey in the open, she would
now I'd go have a whiskey atdinner or something like that
long island.
Well, I'm just saying a whiskeyat dinner was normal, but

(59:06):
drinking whiskey just around thehouse, that wasn't normal for
larry, for larry's style ofdrinking.
I was a beer drinker, right, orif I had to drink, if I was at
a conference or something and bedrinking all day long, I would
stay on beer right, because I'vesaid multiple times I didn't
like to get past I I did notlike to get drunk.

Speaker 1 (59:23):
I didn't, I hated.
That's why, when I had thepowdered accelerants, I could
balance that shit anyway, afterlarry had his gastric bypass.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Talking about that, I do we've talked about that.

Speaker 1 (59:33):
Looking back now, I We've talked about that.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Looking back now, I I don't think that they truly
address a lot of the otherissues.
You, he was addicted to food atthat time and even though he had
to go through all the steps toqualify for the surgery, I think
that the food addiction wassomething that was never really

(59:55):
addressed, and so I think he hehad the surgery, was super
successful, as he is stillsuccessful with his surgery but
he had a huge addiction tofitness.
I mean he was walking and ridinghis bike faster than his
surgeon even wanted him to.

(01:00:16):
I mean, he came from home, fromthe hospital, that same day, he
was on his bike and he wasdoing like five miles and then
he did P90X and he was doinglike five miles and then he did
p90x and he was lifting weightsand he was running on the
treadmill and he was doing allof these things because he also
wanted to look good now that hehad dropped all this weight and
he was feeling great, and so Ithink he had a and he wasn't

(01:00:37):
drinking at this time, becausenot until he crossed the
neighbor's house he got thatbeer yeah, and that night, you
know, looking back now it isfunny because he's like I just
drank my first beer and he wastotally lit off of one beer.

Speaker 3 (01:00:50):
But gone in about 15 minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Yeah, and that and that is.
You know, I don't knoweverybody's experience.
I can tell you, larry Shep,larry, larry's experience.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Larry Shepard, waterford, california, anyway,
everybody's experience LarryShepard, Waterford, California.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Anyway, I can tell you Larry's experience.
He would be fast and furious toget drunk and then he could be
sober within half an hour.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
That's crazy, I mean, but there's something with a
gastric bypass.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Yes.

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
Well, I think addiction is an addiction.
So when you get rid of oneaddiction, you replace it with
another and I've always said Iam so lucky and I'm so grateful.
He got addicted to God, he gotaddicted to the Bible.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
He was addicted to this AA book.

Speaker 4 (01:01:33):
Yeah, you know he was the addictions that he took
annoying at times, but Talk tome what's annoying.
You know what's annoying?
I'll tell you.
You can only get AA'd so manytimes.
And then it really sucksbecause you'll be yelling at one
of your friends and you'll AAhim and I'm like son of a bitch

(01:01:54):
and I'll hear it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
What was your part in that?

Speaker 4 (01:01:56):
Yeah.
But they like it when they doit to me, because I told my
story Thursday.
No, now I see my kids doingwell, I see.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Emily my to me because I've told my story
thursday.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
uh no, now I see my kids doing well I see emily, my
daughter, did to me what greatcoping skills for your kids.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Yeah, honestly my daughter's awesome with aa stuff
yes, with her friends I know,but like how she implements it
in her day-to-day life.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
And I think, even going forward, our girls,
potentially our grandkids, willhave those better coping
mechanisms yeah, mechanisms tohandle things, because Larry's
outlook on life and his outlookon other things that happen
within your family arecompletely different.
You know I mean his.
You know which is beautiful,you know moving forward, you

(01:02:42):
know some things that you haveto go through and I know that he
said this already once before.
But my dad has cancer, whichhe's in remission, thank God.
But when we were given my dad'sdiagnosis it was really on the
bad part of Larry's alcoholismand so what?
My dad is a silent fighter, Isay he's very quiet about his,

(01:03:07):
his health and his, what he'sgone through and what he's had
to deal with and what hecontinues to deal with on a
daily basis, really.
But my mom is this very strong,quiet figure who holds him up
and they just deal with whathe's had to go through.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Kind of like you, uh-huh, just like you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
Thank you, yep, but Larry knew that he wasn't going
to be there for me emotionallybecause he couldn't because of
his drinking and I was walkingthat couldn't because of his
drinking and I was walking.
That what you know, ari's dadgot cancer 10 years ago, a
little over 10 years ago it'sbeen a while yeah and he, in my

(01:03:54):
opinion he was great.
He was taking his dad to chemo.
He was taking his dad to themajority of the appointments
that his dad had to go through.
And his dad's a very stoic,very, I don't want to say he
doesn't rely on anyone, he justdoes his things, you know, for

(01:04:16):
himself.
So you know, larry would makesure that he would take him to
his chemo and he did.
And Larry was there for a lotof it because he did have the
blessing of working from home atthat period, which he still
does now.
But he, you know he was able to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
I had the ability to do it better than my brother and
sister yeah, and it's no.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
I mean no shame to them, but I mean he had a for
that time afforded to him wherehe could work, sitting next to
his dad who was gettingtreatment.
So he had that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
So you know, larry had support at home with me, you
know you didn't have it Ididn't, you know you're a
caretaker at home and acaretaker and helping to, and I
had my girls but I couldn'treally even talk to larry about
other things that were happening.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
you know there's, you know things I don't want to say
at work, but you know workenvironment, that kind of a
thing that we're changing, and Icouldn't talk to him about it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
She would try.
She would try.
I mean, I just didn't give afuck, I really didn't.
Page 62.
I just didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Hey, were there times that you would?
Would you keep things or notshare things with your daughters
Cause you didn't want them tohave a different look at their
dad at times?

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
Just say you would hold on to those.
But you know what?
We're pretty much an open book.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
That's kind of what I gather.
You know, the fab four or thecore four, the core four.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
Yeah, and my girls are extraordinary.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
They're amazing, both of them Differently,
differently, but they're bothamazing and they got different
parts of you too, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
I say I have the light and the dark version
because Miranda's got thatbright blonde hair and McKenna's
gravitated toward the darkercolors in her hair.
But their personalities are.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
And you have both.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Yeah, their personalities are similar, yet
so far apart as well, butthey're both extraordinary.
They're both very strong, verydetermined, driven, and I'm very
proud of them.
But they have they've alsochosen the best partners for
them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
They already shared the same thing.
You're just grateful that themen that they've chosen yes,
yeah, I'm very grateful for bothof them.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
For our boys, I say yeah, and I said that on
Miranda's podcast.
I said one of my most gratefulthings in life are my two
son-in-laws.
Yeah, life for my twoson-in-laws?
Yeah, because for them to takecare of.
For a dad, the one of thethings you want the most is a

(01:06:53):
man to take care of your dog andI got two amazing son-in-laws
yeah, amazing katie, uh, aslarry's going into recovery, as
he's going to maynard's, you'redropping him off.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Are you hopeful?
Did you see something?

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
different?
Did you see something different?
I was tired.
Oh, I bet I was there.

Speaker 4 (01:07:08):
You needed a 30 28 day break yeah, I wasn't like
bonnie, I was you know, I mean,I had two little kids and no
babysitters, like we wouldn'tlet anyone babysit, so so it was
just me.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
You know, I mean, was it tough?
Yes, the months leading up toit were very tough and you know,
I don't think that Larry's eventalked about this, but we were.
You know, it's COVID, it wasweird.
There was a lot of things thatwere happening and you know, I
was trying to control thingsthat I could control.

(01:07:44):
Larry didn't have a lot ofcontrol of any money, he had an
allowance, but it didn't matter.
You know, I mean, you guys,what is it?
Cunning, conniving?

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
cunning baffling powerful yeah there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
So, and it's true, it's, you know, and hiding
things at all cost.
And oh boy.
I don't want to say that he wasa liar, I don't think that I
was a fucking liar, okay, youcan say it back.
I mean to me I wasn'tquestioning him in other areas
of our life.
I knew that this was thesingular greatest issue that he

(01:08:18):
had was his alcoholism and hedidn't want to say that he was
an alcoholic.
I think maybe internally he wassaying that he was, but he
didn't want to say that he wasan alcoholic.
I think maybe internally he wassaying that he was, that he
wasn't admitting it and I wasscreaming it inside, yeah,
inside but I don't think that wewere trying to give you a pass
either, and I think that we weretrying to like, okay, if we can

(01:08:42):
control this, then maybe we can, you know, help him in this way
.
Did I feel that it was reallyout of control?
At a point I knew that it hadgotten bad, and that's when I
was trying to get my ducks in arow and what was happening here

(01:09:02):
in this house was me just tryingto survive.
And then I was grateful that Istill had McKenna at home and I
feel horrible that she had towalk through that with me
because and Patrick as well,because he was here and I was

(01:09:23):
leaning on them a lot, but yetthey were also very supportive
of me.
And then Miranda too, eventhough she was still cautious
about, you know, her little onesbeing around not not being
around Larry, like he wasdangerous.
She just didn't want him to bethe sole caretaker of them.

(01:09:44):
It was fine if I was home,because you know, let's be real,
it's still that way.
I'm the one who takes care ofthem when they're here, it's my
job.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
And vice versa.
I knew where I was at and I didnot want, I didn't want to
drive with them.
I knew right.
So I mean self knowledge, right, I knew that I love my
grandkids enough to know I wasnot going to drive with them.
I was not going to, you know,put them in any kind of harm's

(01:10:14):
way, because I knew that I, youknow, I just knew I wasn't such
of a fucking drunk, I didn'tknow what was going on.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
It's good you knew that.
I recognize that you love thatand recognized it I did.
But you loved them enough thatyou didn't know in that position
.

Speaker 1 (01:10:29):
Speaking of that, I never thought of, because when
we had the old Durango you didall the driving.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
You hate to drive.

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
That's back then.
She don't drive shit nowbecause we're not going to let
her because of the ticketPulling off the gas pump.
They all know that.
I've told the story.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
See, they call me the passenger princess.
I hate driving.
That's what was so funny when Iwent to stay with Tammy.
That's what she needed helpwith the most was driving and
I'm like you go bitch.
I don't drive and I'm like, andthere's snow, oh boy, there's
rain.
So then I'm like telling herboys yeah well, if it's snowing,
you guys are still going tohave to drive us.

(01:11:05):
And they're like what happenedto you?
They're like the auntie that weremember was like so tough and
I'm like, oh yeah, no, no, I'mlike I don't drive anymore.
You're still tough.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
I'll still throw punch somebody I.
I'm just not driving in thesnow, motherfucker.

Speaker 4 (01:11:22):
She's got 15 seconds to back it up, so it's got to
end really, really fast.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
We're working on her cardio.
I think she's got about 18seconds right now.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
She could go when she's done.
Hey, kate, I want to bringsomething up.

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Wait let me go back to what I was.
So there was.
You know we were trying to likeokay, larry, you know let's
handle your depression.
So he was seeing a psychiatrist.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
No, both actually.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Technically you were, and I said you have to be
honest about what you weredrinking.
You have to tell them what youwere drinking, and he had
assured me that he had shared,and he had assured me that he
had shared.
And what was just so strange tome was that all they did was oh
, that you're still depressedand this is happening.

(01:12:11):
Ok, let's change your medicine.
And then he would get a newmedication and I'd call Miranda
our nurse, and I would sayMiranda, what is this?
And she would be like I have noidea why they would put him on
that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Mom, this is while drinking as much as he does.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Yes.
So Larry said, if you don'tthink that I'm not being honest,
I'm going to let you sit in onmy um appointment, zoom
appointment, because it wasCOVID.
It was weird time, you know.
I mean, he never physically metwith this doctor, never
physically saw her in person, sothey couldn't really see him.
I don't think they cared, no,honestly, and it was just like

(01:12:50):
okay, well, here let's do this.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
I forgot all about those appointments.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
So he was telling me you don't believe me, okay, you
sit with me.
And he did admit to her I'mstill drinking and she's still
giving him this medicine thatthe combination could kill him
and she's still giving him thismedicine, that the combination
could kill him.
That's ridiculous.
But is it surprising?
No, no, it's.
It's that's kind of when I saidwe need to do something, you

(01:13:18):
know.
So this is 2021?
.
No, 2020?
Yes, it was probably fall of2020.
Okay, yes, timeline it doesn'tmatter.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
Miranda and McKenna kind of get the timeline.
It's somewhere around there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:35):
But it's COVID.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Yeah, I mean, where did I feel that he had gone off
the deep end?
When I was in Disneyland withMiranda the B12 shot.
Well, I wasn't here for that.
I heard all about it, but youwere in disneyland when that
happened but you know my mom anddad had gone because you know
again we're taking thegrandbabies larry.
Larry was still positive on um,taking a positive covid test.

(01:14:00):
I was negative.
We had had this planned.
I was still going to go.
I knew it kind of gave him apass not to go, but I'd also let
me go back a little bit too,and I I'm thinking I'm not
finishing my thoughts well, butum, I don't like to go back here
, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
I know this is for someone else.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Yeah.
So there wasn't a time that wedid not take a trip or go
somewhere that I I wasn'tresentful because it was for me
hey, let's go do this.
And for him it was like, well,where, where am I going to get
my next drink?
And so we took this trip inFebruary of 2016, I believe, and

(01:14:50):
it was a couple of days of whatI wanted to go and do and see,
and then we were going to travelback up Highway 1.
And so for Larry it was like,oh, malibu's great, where are we
going to stop next and get adrink?
And we were in Venice, I'llnever forget.
And we're walking downessentially their boardwalk or

(01:15:13):
whatever else, and Larry's justlooking for the next bar that we
can sit and have a cocktail in.
And I'm all for day drinking.
Sometimes it can be a lot offun, but when you have an
alcoholic in your life, it's notfun, because then your sense of
responsibility.
I didn't want to drink becausesomebody had to drive, somebody
had to be responsible.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
You can enjoy.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
No, and I wasn't enjoying any of those trips or
any of those times.
And we were married 30 yearsand we went to Palm Springs
because we had to mark theanniversary trip.
We had to do something.
We've been married 30 years.
A lot of people don't even getto five to ten yeah.

(01:15:55):
So I said we had to stop andget alcohol for the room.

(01:16:20):
We had to have alcohol at thepool.
We had to worry about where wewere going to drink that night
for dinner.
You know, everything wascentered around that.
In my opinion, is is how you'renot wrong.
You're not wrong so you know,and there was, you know, I saw

(01:16:41):
it at home, I saw where he wasdrinking and I would question
him a little bit and he would,you know, like it's no big deal,
but there was two things thathe would do that would kind of
give him away.
And he says I didn't ever dothat and you did, but I call it
high stepping.
What's high stepping?
But I call it high stepping.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
What's high stepping?

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
He would just literally get up from his chair
and just walk to our half bath,which is not very far 15 feet 15
steps.
Yeah, but it's an overexaggerated step.

Speaker 4 (01:17:19):
So he's like in a marching band you know, like

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
super exaggerated.

Speaker 4 (01:17:25):
Frankenstein walk Frankenstein walk diver high
step no, uh, you would do theblank stare like you'd have the
blank stare, like I'd be talkingto you and it'd just be gone
thousand miles there physicallyand then just walk off.

Speaker 1 (01:17:40):
Yeah, okay yeah, there was that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
And then the other thing is we'd be sitting out on
the back patio and you know thekids would be here, we'd have
other people or the kids wouldhave friends here or something
like that, and we'd all behaving a great time.
And we'd look up and we realizethat larry's gone because larry
put himself to.
You know he would just go andlay down.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
Good thinking.
Well, like I said, I didn'tlike to get drunk.
When I got to that point, I'mlike I'm going to bed All right,
Before I got drunk and didstupid shit.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
No, I think that you had hit a limit of feeling
pretty good, and you were justgoing night-night, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
And I've said this multiple times my drinking was
to put me to sleep.
That's the reason why I drink.

Speaker 2 (01:18:29):
But I think that has a lot to do with your anxiety.
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:18:33):
And the things that you were trying to control my
depression, my anxiety.

Speaker 2 (01:18:35):
Again, he was only making himself more depressed by
drinking, and he could not, nomatter what I said.

Speaker 1 (01:18:41):
You couldn't convince us of that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
He wouldn't even listen.

Speaker 4 (01:18:44):
No, what's crazy with him is.
You know, I've never seen himdrunk.
I've never seen him drunk.
No, yeah, I wish I could saythat about.

Speaker 3 (01:18:53):
Katie, because we'd go to weddings and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
Not really.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
No, I've never really seen him.
He's never been a fall down.
He always went to bed before.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
But I was the same way before, but I was the same
way I wouldn't, there was very,I mean there's Well, there was
one time when the alarm wasgoing off in the house and the
door, the garage door, I had toopen the garage door and set the
alarm off and I laid down andwent to sleep or something.

Speaker 4 (01:19:14):
No, you were standing in the doorway, buck naked,
outstanding no clothes on, andthe house alarm's going off and
I'm like, what are you doing?
And there's that stare.

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Did you go out to get a drink?
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:19:29):
I don't know what he was doing.
I had to bring him back in thehouse.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
I said I never had a blackout that I remember.
Ha ha ha.
That was the only time in mylife.

Speaker 4 (01:19:38):
I couldn't turn the alarm off because he wouldn't
get out of the doorway so Icould shut the door.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
I said we would sleep in the living room or I'd sleep
in the bedroom because thesnoring went back and forth.
That's when she was out thereand I was in the bedroom.
Some reason I opened the door,alarm going off, and then I got.
That's what I kind of came toand she's screaming at me for
down the hallway like what areyou doing?
And I'm just looking at her.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
I don't know that's there, yeah you know they're,
they're going man, a loss forwords?
No, that's not loss for words.
You know Katie brings up somestuff that you know that
obviously I've buried a littlebit.

(01:20:18):
You know the stuff that I'veput her through.
You know I'm still mad atmyself, for I know, right, I'm
getting better at it, but I know, when I see her talk about it,
that that pain is still real.
Oh yeah, and it hurts me to seeit, because I want nothing but

(01:20:39):
the best for her.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
We want to take it away, we want to fix it.
I want to drag it out of her.

Speaker 3 (01:20:43):
So bad, let me shoulder your pain Right, best
for her.
We want to take it away, wewant to fix it so bad, drag it
out of her so bad.
And we can't let me, you know.
Let me shoulder your pain,right, let me do it.
You caused it, let me fix it.
You carried mine for so long.
Let me carry, and you knowthose things.
When she talks about those,those trips that I wanted to be

(01:21:06):
so special for her and to knowthat I ruined them and know that
those trips were more for methan it was for anything else,
you know the trip she's talkingabout is when I sold off my
trucking company, the 30thanniversary.
No, no, no, the 2016.
The 2016 is when I sold back mytrucking company and I had a

(01:21:28):
couple of weeks.
I took a couple of weeks offand she took a week off and we
spent, you know, in my 2017,.
I think it was 17,.
But in my disgusting brain forme, I wanted to spend time with
my wife because I'd been awayfrom her for so long, but in
reality, all I was doing isescaping and drinking and

(01:21:48):
dragging her along with me.
I wanted a drinking buddy for acouple weeks, right, and that's
what I was wanting, because Ijust wanted to go fucking drink.
It's all I wanted to do.
But you know, I we went todisneyland for I don't know a
couple days and then we justdrove all the way up the coast,
coming home and stopping when itshould have been an amazing
time for for her and I.

(01:22:11):
I made it a fucking misery forher because I was.
It's all I was thinking about.
We're going to stop here, we'lldrink here.
We're going to stop here, we'regoing to drink here.
And it's really looking back onit now.
It's exactly what I was fuckingthinking.
That's it.

(01:22:31):
I didn't care about, you know,the, the stress that I'd put her
through the two years of the.
You know, I took an enormouspay cut, enormous pay cut when I
bought into the truckingcompany, you know, because as an
owner, you don't take bigchecks, right.
So I took that and just damnnear bankrupted us during that
period of time and um, and Ijust wanted to give back to her.

(01:22:53):
But in the meantime, in my mindI was so fucking depressed all
I wanted to do was drink, forfuck we think we're doing good
things.
We think we're thinking ofeverybody, but we're're not.
We think of ourselves andourselves only.
Page 62.
No, and then that 32, and thenthat, our 30-year anniversary.
You know, we went intoDisneyland again right?

Speaker 2 (01:23:11):
No, we didn't.
We just went to Palm Springs.

Speaker 3 (01:23:14):
No, we went into LA.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
No, we only went to Palm Springs, and that was part
of the problem is because he wasso, they were so dependent upon
him to handle like all of thesethings, and they kind of had a
dysfunctional office kind ofsituation, in my opinion at
least, and the whole time hisphone rings, he's working the
whole time that we are away, andit was just for me.

(01:23:41):
I mean, yeah, we went and wemarked that anniversary, but it
wasn't a celebration by anymeans, because it was just
miserable.
He was working, he was drinking, and I mean, none of it was
ideal.

Speaker 3 (01:23:58):
I remember the morning the next morning we got
there katie probably don't evenremember this, but I had an ice
chest in the back of the truckand I went down that morning and
drank like six beers and cameback up just just to get through
that morning oh yeah, it wasjust in in.
Yeah, anyways, you know, thoseare the drunk logs and stuff
that you know, and katie saidsomething a while back is that

(01:24:20):
she felt guilty that she led medown this and it's one of the
things that you know.
I talked about it with Mirandaand I didn't really allude to
who had said it, because I waswaiting for Katie to be on here
to talk about it.
You know, katie and I one ofthe things that's been very nice
to have our daughters on here.

(01:24:40):
It's created a ton ofconversation, right.
You know Katie's been veryhesitant about agreeing to come
on here.
It's created a ton ofconversation, right.
You know katie's been veryhesitant about agreeing to come
on here because she didn't wantto come back into these, these
things, and there's still getinto the heaviness right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:52):
We dodged a lot of it , but there's we have, and you
know, and there's, there's stilla lot.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
I mean, there's still so much of the upside that
through my recovery of this andyou, you know Katie has felt
guilty.
Babe, if you want to talk aboutthis, we can, or if you don't,
you know, she said something tome on the phone the other day
and it just crushed me and is isthat she felt guilty, that she
forced that.

(01:25:17):
She, you know, she made me godown that road and you know, and
I told her absolutely not right.
You know, there was some heavyass shit that we were going
through, but I was the one thatpicked up that bottle, I was the
one that decided that's the wayI was going to run from all the
issues at home.
It wasn't her fault, it wasn't.
And it just makes me sick to mystomach that you, that you

(01:25:40):
carry that and I hate it and Ican't remove that, except with
time and except with my livingamends, except just telling you
you, that is not, that is notyour burden to carry, that is.
And bonnie's 14 years down theroad right you know, and that's
where I wanted bonnie on here tokind of help at some point did

(01:26:01):
you feel, like where was youraccountability in this?

Speaker 2 (01:26:05):
Like did I do something?
Did I push him, or was therelike the stressors of home and
the family and everything else?

Speaker 4 (01:26:13):
I think I most felt guilty.
The only times I really feltguilty was I'm a master enabler,
so I would, when I would go tochurch by myself, I'd make up oh
well, he had to work.
Or, um, what was the?
I just thought he didn't cometo a lot of the family things.

(01:26:34):
Um, I'd say he had to work.
I'd make a lot of excuses um, Iwould always go buy the alcohol
because I didn't want himdriving, so I would go buy it.
And then you know, oh well, I'mmonitoring it, I'd seen exactly
what.
Well, I didn't know.
He had a bottle in his truckand in the garage too.

Speaker 2 (01:26:54):
I enabled it for a long time, you know we had, you
know here was we would go tocostco and get the Costco pack
of Coors Light or whatever hewas drinking at that time and I
would assume that this is theallotment that you know.
Okay, look, I mean this isridiculous for you to have
anything over five, which Istill thought was excessive, but

(01:27:16):
you know, for him that was justgetting started.

Speaker 4 (01:27:19):
Oh baby, that was breakfast, yeah, or Saturdays.
If I didn't have to buy agallon, the gallon of Jack
Daniels, and I was lucky if itmade it Sunday afternoon.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Yeah, and that was one thing he wasn't drinking.
I mean not saying that wedidn't have a hard alcohol in
the house, cause we did, youknow.
I mean there there was otheralcohol in the house, but I
didn't think it was, you know,like Pat and McKenna, their
friends, which I loved them allthey would come.
They're garage sitters, so theyall would hang out in the

(01:27:51):
garage and which was fine, causeit was, you know, we.
I'd rather them be here, youknow, and they were all safe,
which I was thankful for.
Over age as well, so it wasn'tlike underage drinking.
But if there was a handle or ifthere was a larger bottle of
alcohol or something, I wouldmake sure that Patton kind of

(01:28:12):
brought it upstairs with them,because I knew that Larry was
going to be the first one up andhe would probably be drinking.
That In my mind I knew thatthat's what was happening, but I
wouldn't buy any alcohol forLarry.
I wasn't stopping and gettingadditional beer for the house or
anything like that.
I would call on my way home andsay, hey, do you need anything?
I'm going to stop at the store.
Do you want me to pick upanything?
And he knew not to ask anylonger because I wasn't buying

(01:28:34):
him alcohol, because I wasn'tgoing to enable him or
contribute in that way.
I just wasn't going to but itdidn't matter, because he was
doing what he wanted to anyways.
And even when I was restricting, you know, when I took over all
of the finances and restrictedhim and he had just a separate
debit card that he used andthere was a small amount of

(01:28:55):
money on there, it didn't matter, it was still happening.

Speaker 3 (01:28:58):
So I just you know that she brings up those 36
packs from Costco, where I woulddrink, and then this is such a
stupid I would drink, you know.
Then I would bring a 12 packhome and fill that 36 pack up.
So it didn't look like it wasdown this far.
And why did we do that?
Because we're just manipulated.

(01:29:19):
We had, I had to have it and Ididn't want her.

Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
You didn't want to get called out.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
I didn't want to get called out on it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:29):
I didn't want her you didn't want to get called.

Speaker 3 (01:29:30):
I didn't want to get called out on it.
I didn't want to get into thatargument.
I have to answer right fuckingchilled.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
I'm a child, yeah, we're a fucking child running
and hiding the grown man.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
Child that's I didn't say hey, the night before.
I mean, I just stopped arguing.
I didn't want to, it wasn'treally an argument, but I just
knew it was going to turn intosomething bigger and there was
nothing that I could say that itwas going to turn into
something bigger and there wasnothing that I could say that it
was going to make a differenceunless.
I left and I didn't want toleave.
You know, if Miranda was home Iwouldn't have wanted to leave

(01:29:56):
Miranda either, but I keepsaying McKenna because McKenna
was still living at home, athome.
So I didn't want to leaveMcKenna because I knew that
McKenna, being like me, is goingwell.
Miranda would have done thesame, but they would have picked
up the pieces.
You know, they would have triedto manage things and I didn't
want that burden on them either.
So you know, if I could shieldthem from it, I was going to.

(01:30:18):
And you know, I think my momhad a good inclination of what
was happening because she wasalso my safe haven.
But our business was ourbusiness and it wasn't anybody
else's business.
And what would it have matteredif I had talked to Larry's mom

(01:30:40):
or dad about it?
What were they going to do?
Nothing, you know nothing,because in the situation was
going to be the same.
He had to make the decision toget the help.
He had to make the decision tochange his life.

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
He had to my sister was texting me this morning.
She just listened to, uh,miranda, miranda's or mckenna's
one of them and she, she wasjust, you know, over the moon
apologetic that she wasn't moreinvolved and didn't see what was
going on.
I just said, sis, nobodyoutside this house knew what was
going on.

Speaker 2 (01:31:09):
It's not her fault.
I mean, it was evident in someways.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
But to the extent we're pretty good hiders.

Speaker 3 (01:31:19):
I didn't want anybody outside.
I mean, as far as everybodyelse knew, I was still just a
casual drinker.
I went to stay with my mom whenmy mom was going through cancer
, outside.
I mean, as far as everybodyelse knew, I was still just a
casual drinker, right, I meanthey, you know, when I went, I
went to stay with my mom when mymom was going through cancer.
I mean I would go sit overthere and I'd have beer out in
there in my, in my bottle ofJameson's, that would.
I would blend in with my beer.
My mom knew I was drinking beer.
She didn't realize I had africking half thing of Jameson

(01:31:41):
inside of it with it, right, Imean, it was just, it was just a
miserable.
Do you want to talk about adepressing period of time?
Yeah, buddy, buddy, I'm tellingyou that.
That, those memories of goingthrough through all that and it
was just, you know, and I thinkback now and you know, and I, I,
you know, I, you know I can'tfix a lot of the shit I did.

(01:32:05):
We work through them, we talkthrough them.
That's why I was anxious orexcited to do it with my
daughters.
I was excited to do it with mywife.
I love talking about it becausewhen I talk about it it heals
me.
It makes me see.
Not only does it heal me right,it makes me see okay.

(01:32:26):
And not only does it heal me,it gives me.
It gives me in tools to helpsomebody else right.
And that's why we do this.
You know it's one of the katiewas just having a really hard
time with coming on on.
Did you have a hard time comingon, bunny?

Speaker 4 (01:32:40):
no, but it's been so much longer I've had so much but
again, but do you see how hardit was?

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
but you mentioned one word oh yeah you mentioned
alcoholism she'll do that no,you mentioned cancer talking
about it.

Speaker 4 (01:32:50):
No, she's gonna talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
That's still too fresh right for sure, yeah, that
, and, but as we work, I don'tlike to live back in that time,
that period of time either.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
I don't, like you, know what's done is done and we
had to go through that.
I mean, thank God we aremarriage weathered as well.
And in ways were much stronger,for it as well.
But I don't like to go backthere.
I don't like to live in thatspace anymore and I don't have

(01:33:21):
to.

Speaker 4 (01:33:21):
I choose not to.
I've been asked like, like.
Is there things that trigger me?
Is there something that he doesthat sends me back?
That word alone triggers robokay, but for her there may be,
but for alcoholics there's nofucking I don't have any
triggers, but I will say onething I notice is there used to

(01:33:42):
be a smell?

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
oh.

Speaker 4 (01:33:44):
The smell that would come off of him, the way the
bedroom would smell, and Ididn't realize how bad that
bothered me until recently.
I got that smell again andalmost threw up.

Speaker 1 (01:33:59):
It made someone else had that smell about them.

Speaker 4 (01:34:03):
And I did get angry.
I was like you know, just Ifelt like I was gonna throw.

Speaker 2 (01:34:07):
That I cannot handle that I don't know how to explain
it.
It's funny how just one or twoyou know things.
We this.
I can't remember when itdoesn't matter in the timeline
when this was, but larry had aco-worker who was fun and we all
went on a party bus for hisbirthday and we went to a Giants

(01:34:29):
game.
God.

Speaker 3 (01:34:30):
I forgot about this and it was drinking.
I love this thing.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
From the moment that we met everyone else at the
party bus to the very end untilthe time we got off.
Honestly, there was jello shotson the bus.
There was little airplanebottles beingello shots on the
bus.
There was little airplanebottles being passed around on
the bus.
There was all of these weedthere.
Yes, there was lots happening,which it at the moment.

(01:34:55):
It was a fun day until itwasn't and I'm not sure that I
can go to the Giants stadiumagain because he nearly fell
down a flight of stairs becausehe was so bad and he nearly fell
up as he was coming up to ourstands, up to our seats, and he

(01:35:16):
was just a mess and I wasunbelievably angry with him that
he had gotten to that pointlike why can't you control this?
And it was just whatever wasput in front of him.
He was going to drink or he wasgoing to eat that jello shot or
whatever, it didn't matter, andhe could have cared less what
was happening around him and Iwas the one that was suffering

(01:35:40):
for his actions.
So we took our our grandsonKane is a huge Dodgers fan, and
so we went to the Dodger Stadiumthis past year for his birthday
, and walking down to our seatsjust brought back this horrible

(01:36:00):
memory.
But then it was also beautiful,because I'm so thankful to see
how far he's come since then.
That's not something I have toworry about anymore yeah, I got
a question.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
I'm gonna read it.
I love my book.
We'll read a little bit.
This is from the familyafterwards you need a new book
no, no, they say it's well loveduh, the head of the house ought
to remember that he is mainlyto blame for what befell his
home.
He can scarcely square theaccount in his lifetime, since
the home has suffered more thananything else.
It is well that a man exerthimself there.

(01:36:34):
He is not likely to get far inany direction if he fails to
show unselfishness and loveunder his own roof.
You go back.
This should remind you of page19.
Fucking wrong, we feel.
The elimination of our drinkingis but a beginning.
A much more importantdemonstration of our principles
lies before us in our respectivehomes, occupations and lives.

(01:36:54):
So when you dropped him offover three years ago at
Maynard's, I don't know if youforesaw the future.
Have you even daydreamed aboutwhat life could be in sobriety,
if this, if he is successful?
Did you see this where you'reat today and what do you when?
What did you imagine?
What do you?
What do you think about whereyou're?

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
at today.
I was hopeful.
I was hopeful that that he wasgoing to embrace this, that he
was going to learn something andthat he would come out better.
And his journey at Maynard'swas not easy and maybe it was a

(01:37:33):
little bit self-inflicted, Maybe.
Well, I mean, I'm trying togive him some grace.

Speaker 3 (01:37:38):
Okay, it was extremely self-inflicted.

Speaker 2 (01:37:42):
It was hard for me to hear him, and then he was
cautious of what he was sayingon the telephone and there was
no visits, there was no.
Covid because of COVID.
Well, really we're kind ofcoming out of COVID at that
point, but still they had somany restrictions that there was
no family visits, there wasonly phone calls and that was it

(01:38:03):
.
And so I knew that.
I had a phone call with himabout six o'clock in the morning
and it was for about twominutes and that was it, and
then he would call me later inthe evening and again it would
be about two minutes.
And it was just because he wasrestricting, like what he was
saying, and he really didn'twant to talk about too much, he
would.
I could tell that he wasfrustrated and I was very, very

(01:38:25):
worried that maybe this wasn'tgoing to be okay do you remember
hearing a interesting?

Speaker 3 (01:38:35):
do you ever remember hearing a change in my voice
when I was at maynard's?

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
yeah, I did.
You were still cautious of whatyou were saying and there were
some things that I think werehappening there, um, that you
you didn't want to talk about.
You were still, which youshouldn't have any.
What I mean there was sometrouble with other people that

(01:39:03):
were also in recovery there atthe time that Larry was
struggling with and that wasvery hard for him and he was
trying to be kind and it wasvery hard for him to be kind to
specific people at that time.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
I just remembered who you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
This person graduated the same day as Larryry and I'm
sitting in the car and he'shaving not very nice things to
say as this person is loadingtheir um.
That was a drama their suitcaseanyways, was there a change?
Yes, there was, and I couldtell that there was a market

(01:39:43):
change in him, but it was likenine days before he was going to
come home and then and here'sthe other thing there was.
I can't recall what it was.
I had to drive up there and Iremember speaking with a
gentleman there and kind of feelconflicted on this one but he

(01:40:11):
kept saying that Larry hadn'tbought into this program and he
thought he was going to have tostay longer.
And in my mind I was like, wow,this just cost us a ton of money
and that we had to come up withthis money very fast.
And you know, there was thatburden of it.
And I was like, and this man isnow sitting here telling me

(01:40:31):
that my husband is not beingcompliant and he's not doing
what he needs to do and he's notbought into this program and
he's going to have to staylonger.
And in my mind I'm thinking, oh, this is not going to go well
with anybody with his job, youknow, with his insurance, who
probably isn't going to pay anymore for him to stay.
And then he's talking about himhaving to potentially go to

(01:40:54):
sober living.
And I thought, oh God you knowthis is all things that we did
not prepare for.
So how are we going to handlethis?
And you know, know me, I'msitting here worried about these
things.
How is this all gonna pan out?
And it was probably two dayslater that I got a phone call

(01:41:16):
from him.
And it was night and day fromwhat we had, what I had heard,
and I thought, okay, maybe we'regetting somewhere with this.
But then I could tell it wasmore upbeat for the days
following and he was like Ididn't know if it was excitement
that he was getting out to comehome, because I knew that he
really missed us and he reallywanted to come home.

(01:41:38):
But it it was different.
It was definitely different,but and I think that's just when
he finally bought into theprogram.

Speaker 1 (01:41:47):
So he got home and went to meetings, yeah, and then
he kind of got disillusioned.
Jay, I mean I would say, butjust because of the speed he was
going, what did that look like?

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
Yeah, I think Larry is very zero to 100.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:42:03):
True fact.
I'm not much different, am I?

Speaker 2 (01:42:07):
So you know he wants to get in there and he wants to
know everything.
He wants to get the knowledge,he wants to get the information,
he wants to implement the tools, all of those things.
He just wants to do it today.
You know, I mean no patienceZero.

Speaker 4 (01:42:23):
Zero.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
No chill whatsoever, not even even what do you nod
your head?

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
yeah, I get that anyways from him or me.
You oh?

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
yeah, oh yeah yes so you know what was I cautious,
very, but you know our outlookand attitude.
Okay, no alcohol in the house,like Pat McKenna and all other
friends were still coming overand they were.
All.
Let me tell you the supportthat he had at home to come home
to.

Speaker 1 (01:42:52):
It was awesome, it's amazing, it's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
You know, and this is nothing against Miranda and
Eric's friends, which are aseparate set of friends who were
also very supportive, still are, yeah, I know they are, who
were also very supportive, stillare.

Speaker 3 (01:43:05):
Yeah, no, they are.

Speaker 2 (01:43:06):
Everybody is very respectful.
But again, because Larry wasout in the garage sitting with
Pat and Ken as friends andhanging out with them and they
loved Larry.
Everybody loves Larry.
Larry Bear, everybody loves him.

Speaker 1 (01:43:21):
That's not Diane anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (01:43:22):
Yeah, no, it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
Doug started calling me that yeah lair bear.

Speaker 2 (01:43:26):
Yeah, yeah, well, I can bring in another one, but
booger no, that's high schoolloco, larry loco larry, there
you go.
He had many football playersthat called him loco larry, but
anyways, um, you know he had awhole cheering section waiting
for him at home.
All of their friends were happyand excited.
Larry was back and it was achange we all kind of had to

(01:43:49):
figure out.
You know how are we going to bearound Larry.
You know no drinking, noalcohol in the house.
And he set us all straight realquick because he said the
alcohol is my problem, it's notyour problem and I don't want
you not to have the alcohol inthe house.
I have to learn to live with itin the house from day one.
From day one and we were againcautious.

(01:44:10):
But you know, I had to havefaith in him and he always tells
me I shouldn't have faith inhim.
But I do have faith in him andI put my faith in him that he's
going to make the rightdecisions and he's going to
continue to walk this path ofsobriety.
And I have to believe him, evenif he doesn't want me to have
that faith in him I've seen alot of couples that have had the

(01:44:33):
relapse and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (01:44:36):
That's one thing I'm grateful for right I would not
have stuck around through allthat.
I would not do the two, three,four, five I don't think I could
either.

Speaker 2 (01:44:44):
I don't like I won't I can never go back.
I love.
I absolutely love what I haveright now in the home, and
you're so fortunate too, becauseyou have been through this for
so many more years than yeah,than larry, and I have as well,
and you've seen a lot of those.
What do you guys call them?
Two steppers or something?

Speaker 1 (01:45:03):
three, three steppers .

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
Yeah, you know, or they're in and then they're out,
and they're in and they're out.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
The hokey pokey drunken ones Hokey pokey.

Speaker 4 (01:45:11):
I like the California sober ones.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
Fuck them people.

Speaker 4 (01:45:14):
Yeah, I like those ones.
They make a lot of sense, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:45:18):
Anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:45:19):
She's being sarcastic .
I mean very sarcastic.

Speaker 2 (01:45:22):
You've seen the evolution of his walk in
sobriety as well.
So, and the people who havecome in and the people who have
gone out, and the people who aremaybe no longer with us as well
, she's had to really distanceherself, because a lot of the
hard stories that you've heard,right, she's had it in the
families.

Speaker 1 (01:45:40):
I mean, there's been a lot of joy, right, there's a
lot of success, but all those,especially when the kids are
getting hurt, I don't share alot of that stuff with her
because she feels it, she's amother and you shouldn't right,
I mean I don't, I don't bringsome of that stuff into Katie
because, it's, it's not, youknow, but I I will share with
her a lot of the successes thatwe, that we see and have One
more, and how?
one more question for katie, andI've asked this to miranda and

(01:46:03):
I've asked it to mckenna.
Uh, the day larry got like thenumber one sponsor in the world.
Uh, how did his life change?

Speaker 2 (01:46:10):
well, um, I was there at that friday oh, that's right
you were katie, yes I know, Iwas there and you know this is
sarcastic, I just fuckingfigured out what you're talking
about you know, zero to 100 larLarry's going to.
You know good, go headlong intoanything in which he's got
sites on at that point.
And so, yes, I was there.

(01:46:32):
I was there, she was sittingright next to Friday, and I was
behind you both Uh huh yeah.
So, um, I was grateful and Larrydid take it seriously that he I
was grateful and Larry did takeit seriously that he did go to
a meeting that very first night,that he was home and he had
this whole plan.
You know, I'm going to bringyou every receipt for everything

(01:46:55):
I buy.
So you know I'm not buyinganything other than what I said
I bought.
And if that made him feelbetter then that was fine.
But again I had to believe thathe was going to make the best
choices.

(01:47:15):
so he goes to a meeting and thenhe starts mapping out meetings.
Same thing and he was going tosaturdays at jay's.
He's going and I think he wasgetting a lot of it, but again
he wants to go from zero to a100 and we went to that friday
meeting and he's maybe, maybe amonth sober.

Speaker 3 (01:47:30):
I mean I know.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
I mean I'd only been with you a couple times
technically, you're probablyabout six weeks out from from
the start of your day atmaynards to where you were, and
because fridays are openmeetings, so family can come,
and so he was wanting me to gowith him, which was totally fine
.
I was embracing this as well,because it was really something

(01:47:51):
that had to become part of ourlife, and so Jay and Jeanette
are lovely, lovely people andI'm grateful for the good work
in which they do, and I reallywant to say they're like the
head of that situation there butthey're so respected and very

(01:48:13):
well loved and I'm very gratefulfor them too.
So, but yes, there was this guywho was there and Jay said oh, I
want to make sure you meetLarry.
And I remember turning andlooking Rob and there's Rob.
Really the biggest blessing.
I mean, you are like a littlebrother to Larry.

Speaker 3 (01:48:40):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:48:42):
Be, nice.
Literal, be nice.
You got him to where he neededto be for sure.
You got him through the steps,which are very, very important,
and again, probably zero to 100,because Larry wanted to get
moving on them.
And so I'm very grateful to you, but not only for being his

(01:49:05):
sponsor and being one of hisclosest friends, you also
brought your community andallowed him into that community
too.
Tell so many other men that heloves them, because he loves

(01:49:30):
brad, doug, jason, how could younot?
Mike, there's so many men,monday nights, saturday mornings
, and it's those meetings thathe gets the most from.
Oh, aaron sorry, aaron, don'tforget, and I'm sure there's

(01:49:52):
more, and please forgive me, butthere are, you know.
There's just random people thathe's going up and talking to,
which larry's doesn't meet anystrangers I mean, everybody's
his friend.
But here's this like oh no,they're, you know, monday night
men.
You know, but he gets more fromthose meetings than a

(01:50:14):
traditional AA meeting.

Speaker 4 (01:50:17):
Rob has actually commented a few times like we've
gone to different churches.
We like where we're at now.
Commented a few times likewe've gone to different churches
we like where we're at now, butbeing at different churches he
gets more out of the men rightin his.
He does, then he does.

Speaker 2 (01:50:33):
It's anywhere else you have a brotherhood there
that is so strong that you guysall make each other accountable.
And there's some Brad that arevery real and tell and I love
him for it because, just likeRob, he tells Larry what's what

(01:50:56):
and you know, yes, but the factthat God built, oh God, it's not
me, I mean God, god, and it'samazing and you know what.
It makes me sad that there'ssome people in AA who don't have
a community like Larry has.

Speaker 3 (01:51:10):
We all have, not just me, none of the Monday.

Speaker 2 (01:51:13):
I know, but, what I'm saying, the community in which
you are in right now that whereyou per se get fed the most is
in your Monday night group andyour and your Saturday mornings.
Those are what are veryimportant to you, but it's all
men and and whether it's you canbe real and raw or whatever you

(01:51:35):
know, but they also keep youaccountable and they, they
humble you in many, many ways.

Speaker 3 (01:51:41):
Yeah, and we've talked about that group so many
times on here and it's you know,I love my AA meetings because
you know you're getting adifferent group of guys and
you're getting a topic or you'regetting you know.
You know it's where we hear theserenity prayer and, like I
said, I hadn't been to aSaturday morning meeting in

(01:52:04):
quite some time and last weekwhen I was in there we don't,
you know, cause it's our moneygroup is not an AA meeting, it's
not.
It's literally a group of guysholding each other accountable.
We come in, we read, we talk,blah, blah, blah.
But I hadn't been in an actualmeeting and I sat there and I
started to say the serenityprayer in this group of 15, 20

(01:52:24):
guys that's in there on Saturdaymorning and after the first
word I had to stop and just stopand listen because it was just
I hadn't heard it in a meetingand when you hear a group of
people saying the serenityprayer, it literally just melts
you, right, right, because you,you, you.
So my point is to be in that AAmeeting is important for me, to

(01:52:45):
be in there and to hear thatserenity prayer, to hear the
topic coming in and to hearother people's perspective on
the topic and to do all that.
But that Monday night group,that's my boys, that's that's my
boy, we don't have to.

Speaker 1 (01:52:58):
When you're in an open, when you're in a regular,
even if it's a meeting with men,you're tempered, not as much.
In the Monday night group wedon't temper anything.
If you're in a meeting withwomen, they temper it more than
I do, but I still temper what Isay, just because hey, I'm going

(01:53:20):
to start wrapping this up onlybecause it's going in two hours,
but I don't want to.

Speaker 3 (01:53:23):
I'm going to leave with an extremely important
question to Bonnie and to Katie.
If, and I've got one for youafter you're done the way we are
now, which I feel like I'm.
You know, I was telling mysister this morning I didn't
learn how to love until I wentthrough the steps and Katie was

(01:53:45):
like, well, that's weird, I go.
No, I just didn't, because Iwas just a selfish individual.
I wasn't able to give of myself.
And when I gave of myself, Iwas able to get love in return,
something I'd never felt before.
Right, you know, and I've saidthis and Rob, rob, the way I say
it, rob disagrees with, but notthat I had to, but everything

(01:54:06):
that I went through made me that, god, I didn't, everything that
you went through EverythingI've went through has made me
the man I am today.
Absolutely Right, that has mademe.
Did I have to go through thatstuff?
Nope, I didn't have to, but Idid Right.
Would you rather have the menyou married or the men we are

(01:54:27):
today?

Speaker 4 (01:54:28):
Today by far.

Speaker 2 (01:54:31):
Oh and by far.
Undoubtedly.

Speaker 3 (01:54:35):
That's AA baby.
That's God.
Talk to me, katie.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
I mean, I loved him then I just didn't like him for
a period of time and I love thatit has a and him going through
this.
I don't think that larry couldhave gotten sober on his own.
I don't think that what we weredoing here.
I don't think that becausewe're not equipped with it, we

(01:55:02):
don't know, I know, and Ihonestly think that he had to
have that total hiatus, awayfrom work, away from the
stressors and everything elsethat was going on.
I think that he had to trulyfocus on himself.
I don't think that he couldhave done this and I commend
anybody who says I just stoppeddrinking.
But you know, or maybe theyjust took off into the rooms.

Speaker 1 (01:55:23):
Yeah, I need something like I just stopped
drinking, but you know, or maybethey just took off into the
rooms, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:55:27):
I mean, and good for them.
I mean it's awesome, but andthank God that they're here, you
know, but again I left him then.
I love him more.
Now I don't want him to go back.
I don't want any of that.

Speaker 1 (01:55:42):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:55:42):
I hate that other people have to go through what
we've gone through I do and itmakes me sad, but there's very
bright days.

Speaker 4 (01:55:53):
Just think of what they're going to have ahead in
the future he wouldn't have had.

Speaker 2 (01:55:58):
you know, miranda got married six months after Larry.
And some of us boys got to bethere.
What a gift.
And how lucky he was to be ableto walk her down, and for her
too.

(01:56:18):
Now McKenna is getting marriedin September.

Speaker 3 (01:56:27):
You know, I think this one is not that the love is
different.

Speaker 2 (01:56:33):
Emotionally.
You are handling McKennagetting married better.
Miranda was still fresh.
You were still fragile becausethere were mean I don't know
about.
Well, you did say it.
You were kind of fragile evenin the beginning yes, I was
there.
Uh, you know, you had thatfragility and he was still I

(01:56:56):
don't want to say struggling,because he was, he was strong in
some ways, but I think he wasstill searching emotionally the
right fit was right.

Speaker 1 (01:57:02):
Oh yeah, yeah, and things are still wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:57:05):
We don't know how to process a lot of it as it comes
out you know my gratitude hadn'treally hit home, yeah, not yet
that six months, my gratitude,the depths of how grateful I am
to be able to be a part of thatright, to know that I was and am

(01:57:29):
still just one drink away right.
I mean from losing all of thatright.
I mean if I went back todrinking I would not come back.
You know you and I have spokethis before I wouldn't be back,
I couldn't do it again.

Speaker 1 (01:57:45):
I won't do it again.
I'm sure I got another drunk inme.
I do not have another coverage.

Speaker 3 (01:57:49):
And I've told Katie this if I decide to drink again,
I'm going to quit my job, turnin my keys to my truck, sign
everything I own over to her.
Kiss my kids Goodbye, kiss mygrandkids, goodbye.
Go buy all the alcohol I canand go up in the hills and die,
because that's basically whatI'm going to be doing anyways.
Right, but instead of doing itslowly, I'll do it quickly so

(01:58:11):
they don't hurt as much.
Right, because that's what'sgoing to happen, you know, and
those thoughts come up about oh,that drink.
You know that, you know.
I'm not only I'm at three.
You know that three I'm atthree.
Never say only I know, and Ialways think about the guys that
five to seven, right that wealways talk about that five to
seven, right in there.
And I think, as long as I stayinvolved, as long as I stay in

(01:58:34):
there, I don't have that.
That's what.

Speaker 1 (01:58:36):
I do.

Speaker 3 (01:58:36):
Jason Ryan talked about he was struggling with it
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:58:40):
He had heard it, he had heard it and he it, and he's
like man, I need to redoubledown right and he did that's
what I?

Speaker 3 (01:58:45):
that's what you do you see a lot of these guys that
go back out, that go back outand try it again because life
got good, right, it's rightaround that five to six, right,
yeah.
So when I the thought processgoes in my head, well, maybe I
couldn't, oh, fuck that.
No, because I, you know, Iremember what.
The second, the second thought,the first thought, don't hurt
you.
That's the second thoughtthat's going to hurt you, right?

(01:59:07):
But Pat always says that.
Anyways, I don't know why Iwent down that road, but you
said you were going to ask me aquestion.

Speaker 1 (01:59:13):
Yeah, I have asked it on 50, 51.
Do you love your wife?

Speaker 2 (01:59:24):
you can see he does I know you know he, he's talked
about me a lot on here.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):
You know just a little and that's what we,
that's what we usually get.
I gotta break in and I get to,that's.
I bring up your name so I canfucking talk sometimes you know,
uh.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
I'm very blessed and ties back to what I want him,
the man that I married at.
The man that I have now and theman that I have now, because I

(02:00:06):
feel more's just you.
You become complacent inrelationships sometimes and you
just accept what you have andwhat will always be and it's a
different and I, you know therewas a period of our life when I
was doing things independentlyand I would just you know, we
don't live close to anything.

(02:00:27):
We're 20 minutes from a targetyou know, hey, I need to run and
get people towels and I have togo do this.
Do you want to come with me?
And he would say no, because hejust wanted to stay home and
drink.
And I had just becomeindependent and I was just doing
my own thing.
And then when he came home,no-transcript.

(02:01:00):
But I didn't complain because Iknew what he needed.
I knew for him to be successfulhe had to be in these meetings.
Knew what he needed.
I knew for him to be successfulhe had to be in these meetings.
And now it's not.
I mean we were in san diego andlarry was finding a meeting.
You know we were in I think itwas monterey larry was finding a
meeting, you know.
I mean, there was it and I thinkyou can tell when they need

(02:01:24):
them you do, you can tell whenthey need them.
You know it's like a littletune-up.

Speaker 1 (02:01:28):
Yes, and it has nothing to do with drinking.
No, it has.

Speaker 3 (02:01:33):
For me, it's just being around my people, right.

Speaker 1 (02:01:36):
But I sponsor so many men, like I'm doing three right
now, so I can't hit as manymeetings, but that is my meeting
.

Speaker 2 (02:01:42):
Yeah, but those are many meetings in itself.

Speaker 4 (02:01:44):
Actually they're better than, but there's been
times when you've been reallybusy at work.
Oh yeah, you know before, I'dsay before cancer, before you
took this other position whereyou've been super busy at work.

Speaker 1 (02:01:56):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (02:01:56):
And he'll come home, you know, every day.
And then, finally, aboutThursday, hey, rob, I think you
need to go to a meeting.

Speaker 3 (02:02:05):
We both need you to go to a meeting they just get so
like I don't know, I don't knowif I've that release.
Yeah, I don't know if I've evergotten to that.
I and I've said this well,there's been times I couldn't.

Speaker 1 (02:02:16):
I would, because we're working night by a plant,
like where brad's at right yourhot plants going night and day.
Right, you've got, you'reworking 14 to sometimes 16 hours
.
That's when I had a differentboss so we could do that.
You know, and you were just, Ijust didn't have time, homework,
homework.
And then she would, when shewould say that I got that I
better go, I better listen andgo I know when I'm traveling,
you know gone.

Speaker 3 (02:02:35):
You know I've hit meetings, you know on the road
when.
But it's to be around my people, right, it's never you know
what.
And I've said this.
You've heard me say this youfucker, you had to, had to do it
, didn't you?

Speaker 4 (02:02:47):
I just heard it.

Speaker 3 (02:02:48):
I heard him slowly, it's so hard to get that out,
don't try.
About three or four weeks intome coming home, I remember
calling Katie.
You guys have heard me say thismultiple times, but I remember
calling Katie when I left, whenI left primary and I was about

(02:03:09):
halfway home and I just told her.
I said you know, I have to finda different balance.
This isn't.
This isn't working for me.
I miss you.
I want to be home with you.
I didn't get sober to besitting in a fucking meeting
somewhere.
Right, I want to be with you.
Right.
If I need to get a meeting, I afucking meeting somewhere.
Right, I want to be with you.
Right.
If I need to get a meeting, I'mgoing to get to a meeting.

(02:03:30):
Right, if I need to be ofservice, I'm going to be of
service.
This podcast for me is a ton ofservice for me and it's healing
for us.

Speaker 1 (02:03:36):
It is if I'm not working on.

Speaker 3 (02:03:39):
If I'm not recording, I'm working on how to make it
better.
I'm doing.
I'm constantly doing somethingwith the podcast and this, so I
embed myself myself in here andif I'm very fortunate that I
have a wife, that if I need tosit and talk with her, she will
talk with me, right, she, she, Inever I don't think I ever

(02:04:01):
opened up to her when I wasdrinking.

Speaker 1 (02:04:03):
I don't think.

Speaker 3 (02:04:04):
I and I don't, but now I don't even think about it.
I just sit down and we starttalking, right, and it leads to
just to amazing conversations,the conversations that her and I
have had in my sobriety.
There's shit that people shouldtalk about before they even get
married, right, talking aboutstuff that well, that would have

(02:04:26):
been nice to know 34 years ago,or you know, just talk, you
know, and you asked me aquestion and I'm sorry that it
gut checks me because the answeris astonishing.
I can't even begin to tell you.

(02:04:49):
You know, before I got sober,before I did all this stuff and
learning to stop and lovingmyself so much and being so
selfish, I never got jealous.
I didn't.
I never got jealous, right?
I mean, my wife is amazinglybeautiful.
Once again, I'll kick mycoverage by a long shot.
And you know, she would alwaysget hit on in bars and she'd

(02:05:11):
always people would comment onher this or that and it would
always be.
I'd always say, hey, take yourchances.
Right, it was never.
But I'm going to tell yousomething I'm a jealous.
I'm jealous now, right, I am, Iam I just the thought of her
running away with another man,anything?
We finally love someone morethan ourselves.

Speaker 1 (02:05:29):
Oh my.

Speaker 3 (02:05:29):
God, the love I have for her is just.
It's not a bad jealousy,because it makes me want to do
more for her Right.
And when I say that, I know mylimitations on what I can
physically do is extremelydiminished.
We're getting there.
It breaks my fucking heart.
We'll get there, you know,because I don't want somebody

(02:05:51):
else to come in this house.
I don't want another man tocome in here and do a fucking
thing.
This is my house, this is mywife.
I'll do it for my wife, youknow.
But I'm getting to a point whereI can't do it.
No matter what I do, rob andand I just got back from my hip
doctor on Friday, you know, Imay just be at a point in my
time.
This is all.

(02:06:11):
This is the best it's going toget, and I'm starting to come to
that.
Okay, right, but it fuckingsucks because, more now than
ever, I want to do for her Right.
I don't want to go outside andfuck around for myself and drink
a beer while I'm mowing thelawns or doing this shit.
I want to do for her and do forher as much as I can, but now
I'm fucking limited on what Icould do.

(02:06:33):
It's frustrating, but you knowwhat God's working with me on
that, you know, and I'm learningto let go of that a little bit
and I've worked a lot of thesteps on my own to work through
that, because you know I couldcall you and talk to you about
it.
But you know, and I've done alot of this and I don't I don't
suggest this to a lot of people,but I can talk to somebody

(02:06:56):
that's a non-alcoholic and getwhat I need from them.
Right, I could talk to somebodyI know.
I've talked to my boss multipletimes on stuff and he's just
got good wisdom and knowledgeback to me.

Speaker 1 (02:07:08):
manship, yes, right it's exactly what it is.

Speaker 3 (02:07:11):
It's more manship than anything else, right
anyways?
So the answer your question.
My heart is over overoverwhelmed with love for not
only her but my daughters, andwhy our capacity.

Speaker 1 (02:07:29):
Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 (02:07:30):
Oh, and then, why I get more emotional now for
McKenna is because the mygratitude has grown so much.
Yeah, right.

Speaker 1 (02:07:39):
And a year from now it'll be deeper, oh yeah, and
deeper.

Speaker 3 (02:07:43):
And deeper.
Well, shit, katie, how youfeeling.
Baby, I'm all right, this wasgood you feeling okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:07:53):
I'm good you want to add anything.

Speaker 3 (02:07:56):
No, I mean, I don't know Any advice for a lady
that's watching her husband.

Speaker 2 (02:08:04):
Don't give up In the hopes that they get better and
support their journey outside oftheir sobriety.
What they're, you know themeetings, the need for a meeting
.
You know if they need to go andtalk to somebody or go and help
somebody, because that reallydoes make a big difference in

(02:08:25):
helping someone you know walkingthrough that, but you're also
not alone out there.
There's a lot of us that havehad to weather the storm in
different ways.
Bonnie's is definitelydifferent than mine, that's for
sure.

Speaker 4 (02:08:39):
I'm grateful that your kids don't remember or see
yeah, I am very grateful forthat.

Speaker 2 (02:08:43):
And there's not a lot of amends that Larry had to
make to the girls, or even toour boys in regards to this, and
I'm thankful that our grandkidswill never know that drink.
You know, there's none of thatthat he has to worry about, but
he also.
When our youngest granddaughterwas born, he was sober and it

(02:09:05):
was honestly for him.

Speaker 1 (02:09:08):
Oh, it was, he was a wreck.
Well, it was good wreck, I meanhe was just grateful, but it
was again that gratitude he was,you know, he told us he could
embrace the whole.

Speaker 3 (02:09:18):
Feel it, yeah, feel it, feel it you know, I hear
people say it and I still gothrough it, right where you go
through a period of you.
Would you know you want to stabyourself so you can feel
something.
Yeah, buddy, you understand youknow, and there's just that when
you get to that point you knowI literally was just thinking

(02:09:39):
this the other day I mean I justand it's so hard to explain to
somebody that has never feltthat right Because when you're

(02:10:00):
fighting depression or you'refighting something and you just
can't feel, you don't have anyjoy, you don't have any pain,
you don't have any sunshine, youdon't have, there's just
nothing there.
You know, you just have to.
you feel like you need to cutyourself to feel something, you
know, something, you know andwhen.
I, when I saw it, I was hadonly about him.

Speaker 2 (02:10:15):
When was she born?

Speaker 3 (02:10:25):
August.
Who, everly, everly, she'sApril, april of 2023.
Yeah, so I was a year sober.
Um, yeah, uh, so yeah, it wasuh, wait, no, no, no, that's not
right, yeah, everly was a yearsober, yeah, so yeah, it was
Wait, no, no.
No, that's not right yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:10:32):
Beverly was at Miranda's wedding.
Yeah, she was.

Speaker 3 (02:10:33):
So I was over a year sober when Miranda got married.
For some reason I was thinking,no, because yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, yeah, I was over ayear, just Just over a year.
So, yeah, it was just thefeeling that I had when she was
born.
It was just.
I never I hadn't felt that.

(02:10:56):
You know, I watched my grandsonand you know, come into this
world that I was probablyseveral deep.
You know, when I saw that, mygranddaughter, same thing, my
second grandson or grandchild,your first granddaughter.
My first granddaughter.
And then I went and gotrecovered, went and got sober

(02:11:18):
and then to watch Everly comeinto this world and to watch my
daughters, you know, and myson-in-law, and watch that joy
come into them.
Talk about feeling every ounceof it.
It was incredible.

Speaker 2 (02:11:32):
I don't know if either of the girls talked about
this, but when Larry was inMaynard's you know it's kind of
hard, I mean Camping you ruinedit.

Speaker 3 (02:11:47):
Go ahead, we Cain gosh he was.

Speaker 2 (02:11:48):
I think he was in kindergarten.
Brandon, you ruined it.
We came, gosh he was, I thinkhe was in kindergarten, if I, if
I recall maybe first grade, butit doesn't matter.
But um, he, cain, loves hisPapa.
And Cain, I said, you know, we,um Papa, was not home and he

(02:12:10):
and the best explanation thatwas given to him was Papa was
camping.
So papa has a bunch of campingfriends, so y'all are his
campers you know it's been it's.

Speaker 3 (02:12:18):
It's enjoyable now because kane understands what I
do.
He understands the At 10.

Speaker 2 (02:12:27):
It's, he's very proud of his Papa and knows and and
Claire, who is six, almost seven, she talks about it too, and
not that alcohol is bad.
They know that alcohol is not abad thing.
They just know that sometimessome people aren't good with it.
So Kate is a and he knows thathe's helping.

Speaker 3 (02:12:47):
Yeah, he's actually talked to me about people that
I've helped and it's just, youknow, it's enjoyable, I don't
know anyways you brought upsomething, though, about being
in before you ask her.

Speaker 1 (02:12:57):
I want to share something with my wife.
Okay, good, I never made thisconnection until now.
Uh, you brought up about how weare in our addiction right in
the alcoholism world.
We're kind of inside battlingand I talked about early
sobriety, when you start feeling, but that internal, that time
struggle was just like.
Remember when the chemo hit methe first time and I'd be in

(02:13:19):
here and I couldn't.
I'd be in my own mind but Icouldn't get out.
That's what early sobriety waslike.

Speaker 3 (02:13:24):
That was that was hard to watch, man.
I was fortunate I didn't gothrough that.
I just don't remember, I didnot go through that.

Speaker 1 (02:13:32):
No, you didn't.
I did not, I didn't.
Every time I hear you talkabout it it breaks my heart.
You and I will talk laterafterwards why it was that way.
I'll tell you why it was thatway for me and why I go through
great lengths to do the way I doit, so men don't have to suffer
that way.
That's why I do what I do theway I do it.
One because the old time is it.

(02:13:53):
But and that'll tell you, but Idon't want to hurt.
I don't want to hurt anybody.

Speaker 2 (02:13:57):
That's what it was like for me.
There I'm.
You know, AA talks about yourhigher power, which ours is, our
Lord and Savior.

Speaker 1 (02:14:08):
Jesus.

Speaker 2 (02:14:09):
Yes, and I think there's so many people who are
in the rooms sitting in some ofthose meetings where that's not
theirs, no, and whatever theywant to believe in is what they
want to believe in.
But not only has Larry's faithgotten stronger through this
whole process, it's thegraciousness of God in our life

(02:14:37):
and what we have been given,what we've been able to do.

Speaker 3 (02:14:43):
Promises, baby yeah, promises Cannot get done.

Speaker 2 (02:14:51):
No, but it's what he's given back to us for his
faithfulness as well, you know,and that's where my faith had to
be and him to get through it,because I don't think that we
would have had we not.
And also the people whosurround you.
You know it and it could.
It may not be your siblings, itmay be your cousin, and it
could be somebody who's notactually blood related to you,

(02:15:12):
who you're, who you rely on, whoare your greatest supporters,
but who love you hard duringthose hard times.

Speaker 1 (02:15:22):
I like that quote love hard.
I know what you mean.

Speaker 2 (02:15:26):
You need those people in your life.

Speaker 1 (02:15:27):
Yes, you do.

Speaker 2 (02:15:28):
And sometimes they come from the most unexpected
places.

Speaker 1 (02:15:31):
That's a God thing.

Speaker 2 (02:15:32):
Amen, amen.
So yeah, the journey kind ofsucked for a while, but it's
pretty good.

Speaker 1 (02:15:41):
You want to ask her anything?

Speaker 3 (02:15:43):
You said you were going to ask her a question.
No, you said you were going toask your brother.

Speaker 1 (02:15:47):
No, I just wanted to share that with her because I
wanted her to kind of, becauseit's hard to put into words, but
she understands the cancer, thechemo, that chemo did to me
yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:15:55):
I was going to do the same thing as I asked Katie Do
you got advice for and I'm goingto ask you a twofold right,
because I feel like you battledtwo battles with your husband Do
you got advice for women thatare going through it and the
cancer?

Speaker 2 (02:16:11):
Well, she doesn't have to talk about the cancer
she doesn't have to.

Speaker 4 (02:16:14):
You get a pass.
I don't suggest people do whatI did.

Speaker 1 (02:16:20):
With alcoholism or.

Speaker 4 (02:16:21):
No with the cancer thing.

Speaker 2 (02:16:23):
No, Like I said, I shoved it down Um yeah, but
sometimes when we scratch thatsurface, it hurts more.
Yeah, that's why.

Speaker 4 (02:16:35):
that's why I don't like to talk about it, don't
bring it up If you don't mentionit.
I'm fine.
I don't want to do that aboutit.
I can't even tell you how manytimes.

Speaker 1 (02:16:42):
I've said I don't want to do it.

Speaker 2 (02:16:44):
I'm not ready.
I mean, Rob wants to ask me,Come on kid.

Speaker 1 (02:16:50):
If another woman came up to you and said I heard in
the rooms that your husband wentthrough cancer my husband's
getting ready to go through thesame thing he did Would you not
talk to her?

Speaker 4 (02:16:57):
Of course I would.

Speaker 1 (02:16:58):
Even though it would scratch Of course I would.

Speaker 4 (02:17:00):
I'm not going to tell her what I went through.
I Tell her you expect thisexpect this, that makes sense.
But I'm not going to.

Speaker 3 (02:17:08):
Give her your personal feelings.

Speaker 4 (02:17:10):
No, because I don't think that's helpful for
somebody.
Don't do what I did, becauseI'm sure in like 20 years I'll
be all screwed up from it.
Need some therapy.

Speaker 1 (02:17:20):
I'll send her to Maynard's.

Speaker 4 (02:17:22):
My 30-day retreat.
My turn, my turn.

Speaker 2 (02:17:26):
God damn it I mean it would be nice when I went on
the beach in Mexico, orsomething that would be a much
better 30 day retreat.

Speaker 4 (02:17:33):
I don't know, when I went up there and saw those
little cabins, a little lake, Iwas like you pitch, you pitch, I
want to stay in that one and Iwant to go have a campfire right
there.

Speaker 3 (02:17:44):
Yeah, well, you got it before he was like, yeah,
it's not as yeah.
Eight hours of sitting in classain't heaven.

Speaker 1 (02:17:52):
I had a great experience from the second.
I almost left the second day,but the crier Julie saved me.
The third day I met Chris andthen from then I was on a roll.

Speaker 3 (02:18:02):
Yeah, that took me about 18 days to get to that
point.
Yeah, I know took me about 18days to get to that point.
Yeah, but I was just.
I was trying to fucking controleverything about it.
Rob.
A end of a year, brother.
End of a year yeah, here, hereI'll drink to that yes, sir,
that is uh that you know fromthe living to be swallowed drink
monsters, you know we're gonna,we're gonna come back, and the
wives are gonna come back, andwe're gonna.

(02:18:23):
We're gonna kind of uh fornumber 53, which is we're gonna
record again, and we for number53, which is we're going to
record again and we're going toreview the last year.
We're going to talk about it alittle bit.

Speaker 1 (02:18:32):
You got some notes.

Speaker 3 (02:18:33):
Yeah, I got some notes.
We're going to do somehighlights, do some update from
some of the guests right and gothrough that the wives, it'll be
a little bit funner one.
I'm done with this family shitbud.

Speaker 4 (02:18:43):
I'm telling you that's but I'm telling you I'm
done with it.
Katie might do our own and justmake funny couple hours.

Speaker 3 (02:18:48):
I'm telling you, in between the three, what it's
done internally for the familyhas been amazing.
What it's done for ourlisteners has been amazing.
What has done for the podcastis I as God only know, because I
feel like he's, he's startingto work in ways that is hasn't.
Oh, it's coming, it's coming,anyways, but we're going to come

(02:19:11):
back and talk about that, okay,but we're going to get on out
of here.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you If you
did not come back next week, andwe'll try again.

Speaker 1 (02:19:24):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway, hey,
thanks Rob.

Speaker 3 (02:19:33):
Come back next week and hopefully something will be
different and something willsink in.
Take care.

Speaker 1 (02:19:37):
This has been.

Speaker 3 (02:19:37):
Recovery Unfiltered.

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