July 23, 2025 • 36 mins
What do you do when you can't directly make amends to someone you've hurt long ago? How do you release the guilt of harmful words spoken decades in the past? These questions haunt many in recovery, and in this episode, we unpack the transformative power of "living amends."
The conversation begins with Larry sharing highlights from an AA convention in Canada, where a speaker's powerful message resonated deeply: "Higher powers will happen with or without me. Alcoholics Anonymous and the third step in particular is the invitation for me to get on board so I can stop getting dragged behind it." This sets the stage for a profound discussion about moving beyond our past actions.
Paul, with nearly 37 years of sobriety, offers wisdom on making living amends: "I don't do the things to them that I used to do." This deceptively simple statement contains depths of meaning—true amends isn't just saying sorry, it's becoming someone new. The hosts share practical ways they embody this principle: smiling at strangers, asking "Who can I love on today?" before leaving home, and shifting focus from self to service.
The most powerful revelation comes when discussing self-honesty. Many find their obsession with alcohol leaves at the exact moment they stop lying to themselves about who they are. This radical truthfulness—refusing to justify, rationalize, or minimize—creates the foundation for authentic change and makes the entire recovery journey easier.
We also explore the heartbreaking reality that we can't save everyone. People move at "the speed of pain," changing only when staying the same becomes too painful. This recognition doesn't mean we stop caring—it means we approach others with compassion, meeting them where they are without judgment, while being available when they're finally ready.
If you're carrying guilt about past actions or struggling to make amends that seem impossible, this episode offers hope through practical approaches to living differently today. Join us for a conversation that might just transform how you view your recovery journey and your relationship with your past.
Thank You for Joining Us.. Please share with friends. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcoholism please reach out to us. We can get you help. recoveryunfilteredpodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And Paul Larry loves it when we drink and swallow
right at the microphone yeah,I'll fucker.
Sponsored by Swallow.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey, you know what I do got to owe you amends, though
I'm going to hold on a second.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Whoa.
Then you put that fucker on air.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's going to be on air now.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm getting better, paul.
You're getting better about theeffort, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello Robert.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hey, hello, robert.
Hey, you're getting ready totake a fucking drink, right?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
there.
Welcome back, brother, welcomeback, hey, so that's so.
We just finished up with paul.
That was, uh, you know it's funabout your story, paul, paul's
back with us.
What was so fun about listeningto paul's story was you don't
hear.
You know I I stayed in my samecareer, right, because I never
lost anything.
Paul went from having you, wentfrom having zero to senior vice
(00:51):
president of a huge you know,of a large healthcare facility.
So I mean those.
However you want to look atthat, whether it's a dream
coming true or just the promises, or however you want to look at
that.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Well, all Paul did was follow.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Follow, walk through the doors that God opened.
That's exactly where I wasgoing he always does a foot and
just if god says it, just followit.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
You know, that's one of the things we say and I've
shared this.
I've even shared it with paul.
I was at the uh, well, morethan just paul, I think I was at
the united spirit meeting.
I'll try to, because when Ifirst got in here and I've
shared it I try to listen toeverybody, which I didn't always
.
While there was some people,when they talk, I just fucking
tune them out.
There was one guy that Icouldn't stand, primary purpose
(01:31):
oh fuck, here he goes again.
So I just tune them out and atthis point I'm maybe two years
sober and I've been praying forsomething, I mean working with
God and not getting any answers.
I thought and at the end ofthis guy Sherry, just happened
to catch the end of it Like, ohshit, there was my cause, god,
god speaks to me, right, right,like oh shit, there was.
Now, am I going to humble myselfand ask this guy at the end of
(01:52):
the meeting hey man, I caughtthe end of it.
Would you please Cause it's andthe whole thing he says Rob, I
love when you, and he doesn'tknow what I thought about him.
I love him today.
He doesn't know who this isanyway.
That's funny.
It taught me God, taught memore humility to listen, but
(02:12):
there are certain men that Ihear better.
I listen to everybody, butthere are certain Paul's one of
them, bob's one of them, scott'sone of them.
I can hear when they speak.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I can hear when they speak, I can hear them and I
need that Very true, and there'ssome ladies that speak when
Mary speaks.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
But I mean I get a lot from new people only because
those are like scouts.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh, my gosh, stuck in their ass.
It was still no good out there.
I'll stay sober.
Thank you for doing my homework.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I get when.
When somebody says I got 24hours, I'm all ears man.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
I want to hear it I want to hear their voice.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I love seeing the pain.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh yes, sir, you know what we're sick to want to hear
that right.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
No, I want to see that pain, but if people don't,
understand what we mean by that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Because if you see that sickness and then you watch
that light get turned back on,the joy for us, right, the joy
that we get watching that lightcome on, like we saw with Mikey
Stillman watching that all thatcome back on, like we watched
with Nathan.
I mean Nathan was six yearssober before that light just
worked his steps and watchingGod is just he's just
illuminating now and it's so fun.
(03:20):
But I'm surprised you didn'tmake me do my amends before you
started running your mouth.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Well, I don't get it.
I can't get a word at edgewise.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
With your big mouth, you started it.
Prick, go ahead.
Hey, you know how I gave you.
You know how I gave you all theshit for uh, for you not having
your face close enough to themic right right and how I always
got to mess with your volumeswhich is wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I always have my face the same distance.
You know what the?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
problem what?
I had this fucking mic insidemy mouth talking.
That's why it was so fuckingloud all the time.
I finally came back up here,I'm like I got to figure out why
your mic is so low all the time.
So I recorded on your mic andit was the same as how I speak
and I realized, oh fuck, I mustbe sitting too close to the mic.
So, yes, it was me.
So was it was me.
(04:11):
So it wasn't you.
That's an amends that sucked.
Who taught you how to make a?
Go fuck yourself, jesus, mylousy ass sponsor.
Yeah, so hey, I want to talkabout canada a little bit.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So I had, uh, it's freaking great right I went with
dougie p who and jason r.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Jason r, yeah, but me and dougie were travel partners
.
That poor dude had to travelwith me and, for god sake,
you've had to stay with me in mymotorhome.
I'm a very high-maintenance guyat nighttime.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Paul, he likes to cuddle too.
He likes to spoon.
It pisses me off.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But here you were small enough to cuddle, it was
your motorhome.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I got to do what you got to do.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Doug wouldn't let me cuddle with him.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
But man, I'm still a sugar net.
When I wake up in the middle ofthe night, I need sugar.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I'm good as long as I don't take one, if I eat one
and maybe if I tried to go tosleep without it, so anyway, so
it was, uh, it was awesome.
It was super tough to get intomeetings.
There was meetings going 24hours a day.
There was you had an East sideand a West side side and there
was just all kinds of meetingsand you had these little
schedules not little there.
You had these schedules and youknow these, mine started from 9
(05:11):
to 11, and then another one'sfrom 11 to 130, then another one
from 130.
I mean, they were just non-stop.
Well, when I set up my scheduleright, because I I was going by
larry's schedule instead ofgoing, hey, let's just see what
happens, today I, I'm going totry and make it to this one.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Let's let God work.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
today I'm going to try to make it to this one.
No, I had Larry's scheduleright, oh yeah.
So I had one at 9 o'clock thatI wanted to go to, so me, Jason
and Doug all made it to thefirst one.
I was like all right, what areyou talking about?
It's filled up.
(05:46):
Why would you guys havesomething like this?
Put these meetings out and it'sfilled up.
Fuck.
Now I got to find anothermeeting, so I was looking for
another meeting.
I went running over that one.
It was on the west side.
I went running over there andthat one was fucking full.
Now, Larry's pissed, you guyshave these meetings but nobody
can get into them.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, the people can get into them.
You just couldn't.
There's people in there, justnot you.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So I went over onto this couch and I started pouting
.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I was just pouting Is that when I got the call.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yes, that's when I called you I was like
motherfucker and I was poutinglike a little bitch and this
little old lady sat down next tome, right, and we're sitting
there, we're just chit-chattinga little bit and I go, I've been
trying to get into two meetingsand I haven't been able to get
into them.
It's difficult.
And she turns around like this.
She's like did you try to gointo that meeting?
(06:32):
And it was come meet yourneighbors from the East Coast,
right.
And I'm like no, it's.
And as soon as those words werecoming out of my mouth I
realized what she was doing I go, I get it, Just get into any
meeting, she goes, right.
So Larry was humbled pretty fast, pretty fast.
But then on Saturday we I waslike I told Doug I said, hey,
(06:53):
whatever happens today happens,right, here's a meeting I want
to go to.
And then we went to the firstone and I'm still sitting there
pouting a little bit, andbecause I just hadn't, I mean,
and Doug and Jason were justgoing off about this other
meeting and they were talkingabout how great meetings they
were into and I hadn't been intoone, and I sat, we finally, the
three of us, went to the firstmeeting of the day and the first
(07:15):
speaker came up and it was like, oh, this is good, it was
better than what I've seen.
But then the second one came up.
This girl was Madeline H fromout of new york and she raised
the freaking roof of this placehere here's the big spoiler
alert.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I don't know how many people are new in this room,
but if you're new, I'm gonnablow the lid off the thing
higher powers will happeningwith or without me.
They don't need me on board, Idon't have to sign off, I don't
need to be in acceptance thatshit is happening.
Alcoholics, anonymous.
And the third step inparticular is the invitation for
(07:53):
me to get on board so I canstop getting dragged behind it
she went off for 20 minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I mean she, she just hold on.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
She used the f4 too, right?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I don't know how many people are four things in the
world that I care about morethan anything else, and that is
power, control, attention andaffection.
Those are the four things I amtruly motivated by as a person
and as an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And so I was sitting there and when she said that,
right there, I, I'm like thisgirl is inside my brain, right,
I, I, I'm like this girl isinside my brain, right, I mean
it was incredible how, when shesaid those four things, I'm like
that's exactly what, I've allthat, that's exactly it.
And then, so she finished, Imean I got, I, I was able to, we
were able to buy all therecordings, right, I was able to
(08:38):
get several recordings and Iactually got the one that Doug
and Jason went into and I'mgoing to try and listen to it
this afternoon.
But so at the end of that, I'mlike I got to get this girl on
the podcast.
So when she was done, she kindof came down off the stage and
she was just surrounded, right,and I was like screw that.
So I left and, uh, I wentupstairs.
I was going to try to go intoanother meeting as I was going
(09:00):
up that escalator, god hit me,get your ass back down there.
So I went back down there and Iwas standing there, standing
right.
I wasn't gonna wait in thatline, because I'm Larry, I
shouldn't have to wait in a line, right?
No, you shouldn't.
I mean, just look at me, youknow who I am yeah, come on so I
stood there for the longesttime until that line finally got
short enough and I'm like, well, she ain't gonna break away
from that to come over and talkto me, because so I'll might as
(09:21):
well go stand in line.
So I stood in line.
I finally got to the end of itand I told her.
I said, hey, I got a podcast.
I love, love, nothing more tohave you come on.
And she goes yeah, I go, canyou?
You know, can we talk at yourdesk?
So she finished up and then, um, I got her number and I said
can we meet afterwards, likeoutside?
She goes, of course.
(09:50):
So she came up, she met with usand we talked about it she's.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
She actually lives in new york, but she comes out
here, uh once.
She comes out here in june andshe comes out here in december.
So she was done.
She was getting ready to flyback home.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
June's my sobriety, jim, december's my belly button
birthday well, she'll be outhere for your belly button
birthday.
So she's gonna come out yearsold so she's oh god, so she's
gonna come out here record man,and I'm going to tell you I am
she, she, when I was done,listen to her.
Jason's like do you want to goto another one?
I'm like, absolutely not, I'mdone, I'm done.
(10:15):
You know, and we would mean Jay, me and Doug did finally try to
go into one, but it was fulltoo, and I was like I told Doug,
I said, you know, I am that,listen to her speak.
What paid for my entire trip.
As far as I was concerned.
I mean I literally the from theFriday of just.
I mean I got to a couple ofmeetings but they were blah, but
then and but I got to hear herspeak and she, her whole story
(10:38):
was just incredible.
Listen to her, just the way shespoke, it was almost like she
was inside my head and I can'twait to have her on the show.
So she's going to be here.
Good, she's gonna be here.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So you wanted to bring up um, I did so, uh, and
this is this is gonna be forpaul we got, because I'm not on
social media paul at all, neverhave been.
Uh, larry is so I had no, sohe's I, he shares, I live
vicariously through him, throughthe social media avenues and
bonnie and my wife.
Yeah.
So here here I'm gonna readthis is a.
This is a from jim.
(11:07):
I gave away his identity lasttime.
It's jim hart.
He's our age a little bit atlarry's age, a little bit older
33 33 years as a firefighter,retired, living in Denver.
Just jumped in.
He jumped in AA with both feet,so he's brand new kind of.
He says guys, I promise I'm notstalking you so I'll quit
sending emails, but after everyepisode you ask us, the
listeners, to let you know howyou did.
I'm old, so he's retired and hemows lawns on a golf course a
(11:30):
day and catch up.
Today I listened to Mike andKim.
It's Mike Stillman and Kim.
They lost their son at the sametime.
Jason lost his son.
I took so much from it.
The support of Kim was soincredible and touching.
I could go on and on about thestory, the similarities and
differences, but I just want tohit one major thing and have you
tell Mike.
Thank you so much.
I played some music on myheadphones for a few hours
(11:52):
yesterday after I listened toyour show Total 80s hits.
I dig it.
It took me back to high schooland a bit of nostalgia.
With those memories came a lotof reflection on the start of my
alcoholism.
Along with that, of course,came the memories of people and
how badly I treated so many ofthem.
I was actually feeling prettylow and guilty by this AM.
I mean, how do you make livingamends to people you don't see,
(12:16):
and of course, at this point youcan't make amends to someone.
You had you treated poorly 36years ago without hurting
someone.
So I was feeling guilty in themorning.
Then mike got to talking abouthow much guilt he feels with kim
, his wife.
How could he make up for somany things?
Then larry was talking aboutthe same things with katie.
Then rob the voice of reasonalways pops up with great
insight.
(12:36):
Thank you for that, jim.
I guess the point is, by thetime the show was over I felt so
much lighter.
Had Mike not taken it down thatroad, especially near the end,
I may have walked away stillfeeling down, but didn't.
So you wanted to help at leastone person today.
Today, that was me, so Paul,day that was me, so paul, and
(12:56):
because I don't know a lot ofthe things that used to bother
me I work in the steps were notso many things that I'd done to
people, but shit that I had said, the hurtful shit that I had
said.
And you can't go back.
Hey, remember when I called youa fat toad or you know whatever
back then and you and you wouldhope they would forgotten about
it, but you know they didn't,because I don't forget nope no,
you know, sticks and stones isbullshit.
Words.
I mean words.
My dad could have told me cutin, cut deeper than any, any
(13:18):
lash, any whip I'd rather had aspanking so the question he
asked is how do you make aliving amends to people you
would hurt, you know, and paul'sgot 30, coming up on 37, 38
years of sobriety.
Paul, how do you make a livingamends to people you would hurt
years ago?
What is it?
What is a living amends to you?
And and how would you answerthat gentleman's question?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
this may sound too simplistic, but no, I, I don't
do the things to them that Iused to do.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I you know or to anybody new right.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
The behavior must stop and and you know it's I've
got a, I've got this, thishealth app on my phone that goes
through work, and two of thethings that it asks me on a
daily basis have you shownyourself compassion with your
emotions?
The other thing have you showedkindness to somebody else and
(14:11):
to me?
Those two things I can alwaysanswer yes, no-transcript, and
(14:34):
can I give myself forgivenessfor, you know, for the things
that I don't think I do?
Well, um, my first sponsorinstilled in me that just, just
what you just said, there arepeople that I'll never be able
to make amends to.
Okay, but the but that's wherethe living amends comes in is is
how we, we take the things thatwe used to do and the hurtful
things and the selfish thingsthat we used to do.
We just don't do them anymore,you know, and if you want to
(14:58):
flip that coin on its other side, overtly be kind to other
people, I'll tell you somethingfunny.
It's something I learned yearsand years ago and I've done this
as kind of an experiment.
I still do it from time to time, walking in public somewhere
and just smiling at people ohyeah and watching to see.
Do they smile back?
I don't, you know, don't get aresentment if they don't, you
(15:20):
know, it's like that's theirbusiness, that's, you know,
whatever, um, but that is one ofthe kindest things that you can
give a gift to everybody andyou don't have to know them, you
don't have to say it doesn'tcost you anything doesn't cost't
cost you anything.
Just smile at somebody.
There are times when you knowwhen that's gotten me in trouble
.
It's like what are you smiling?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
at Right.
Why are you so fucking happy?
What are you looking at?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
But the point being is, I don't care.
I especially love it when I'mwalking and I see and I'm
reading the facial body languageof somebody who looks like
they're in turmoil or deep inthought about something, and
maybe it's, you know, maybe it'ssomething, maybe it's nothing,
(16:05):
but if I can make eye contactwith that person and give them a
smile, I feel good.
I feel good that you know,maybe they needed that and
whether or not they smile backor whatever, I feel like that in
a very small way, that'stransmitting love Right.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Oh for sure, I tell you guys that Now you answered
the question.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
You answered Jim's question.
How do you make a living inmen's?
I think living in men's.
I've got an answer myself.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, and I've said this before on the living in
men's, and I think Paul said itwell is stop doing the shit that
you've done right With my wife.
I just had to change everythingabout myself right.
And and those living amends.
This is I'm kind of going on acouple of things here, there.
(16:43):
If you stop doing the bullshitthat you did, eventually right,
Eventually that becomes the pastright and you don't, and those
things you become on a newpersona and a new character.
And those things you become ona new persona and a new
character and that new charactertakes on a new life of itself
and that old person dies awayand they forget about that stuff
.
There's my living amends.
(17:04):
My toughest time, my toughesttime when I got sober, was
forgiving myself.
That was the toughest thing Ihad to do was forgive myself.
And how I do that.
Now, paul said it too.
I give back to others, right.
The more I give, the more Ifeel better about myself.
(17:25):
I tell you guys in the grouptext every once in a while.
I always say make a strangersmile, right.
I used to tell that to my kidseven before I knew this.
Hug a stranger, right.
I used to tell them that make astranger laugh.
Today.
I just I've always felt thatinside, you know, because when
somebody makes me laugh that Ihave no fucking idea who they
are.
My whole day changes.
My whole day changes Because ifyou're sitting shitty, you know
(17:48):
.
If you're sitting like Job,like pouting, and somebody
smiles at you, you go huh, okay.
Or you say what the fuck areyou so happy for?
You know, it just depends onhow deep in the hole you are.
But that's my living amends,yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Well, and mine is as practical.
Because, if you ask, doug,because my last prayer we talked
about this before I leave,because I do my 11th step upon
awakening.
We're going to retire at night.
But before I drive away,because usually I have to drive
somewhere, I ask God who can Ilove on today?
Right, and Jim, this is myanswer to you.
And I ask God, who can I loveon today?
And sometimes it's the cashierat the grocery store who needs
(18:23):
just a kind word or a smile.
Many times it's in my own house, right, you know changing that,
right, and it's always gettingout of.
And now that does not take awaywhat I said 36 years ago Nope,
nope.
But I am not that man anymoreand in my way, and I pretend
(18:44):
that every time I do somethingkind for someone else, not just
for the sake of being kind, Godis blessing that person, that I
said that harmful thing to.
So I try to make it a consciouseffort and in my way that's just
every time I do something kindand get out of rob.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
god's blessing that person you're further and
further away from that, fromthat prick right.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
You're further and there are times, paul, I have
struggle and I get up and I'mnot much, but I'm all I think
about in the day and just, andit's a grind like mother, but I
I mean it happens I mean you,you know, we are not well.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
This is progress, not perfection.
We are far from being perfect.
Far from being perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But and I want to say something what you had said
about three minutes ago was oneof the most profound things I
ever heard you say, which wasalso the way you described it.
So that's the only time you'regoing to get a fucking comment.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I'm sure glad I got that recorded, yeah, but but
it's the way I think.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That is truly the way I think.
That is truly the way I feel.
Anything that gets me out ofhere is always a benefit.
And when I'm sponsoring, I justgot done with three men Sam
just got done, three have beenthrough the steps, one just went
and got a job.
It's awesome, I'm proud, I'msuper proud of him.
But when I'm pouring myself,when I'm giving of my time, my
talents, my treasure, whateverGod's given to me, treasure,
whatever God's given to me andanother human being who's
filling me up, right, it's God,and that feeling is what I've
(19:58):
been chasing all my life throughsex, drugs, booze, yes, and I
didn't know that's what I needed.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And I'm the same way with you, rob the more I give of
myself, the more I give ofmyself, and the more people
reciprocate with thank yous andthat kind of stuff.
That's what I was looking for.
Or, and that kind of stuff,that's what I was looking for.
Or even if I don't get that, no, no, and you're right.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
But if I see by doing it, but if I see that person
growing off of knowledge thatI've given them, that's what.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
That's what I chased okay, now to thine own self, be
true.
Yeah, so about that.
So, um, it was I.
I don't want to go into a tonof detail on on the person, but
I was.
I got there, I got to go sitwith somebody yesterday I just
got out of rehab, right andtalking to them and working
through some stuff, and he wasstill such in so much denial and
(20:44):
I, I actually what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
He was just, he was still blaming, he was still
blaming, blaming everybody else,right, right, right, he was
still blaming some stuff, right,he was still blaming stuff,
stuff, right, okay, he was stillblaming stuff and you know he
fresh right.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So I don't want to start getting on a soapbox and
pounding on it because I, I, Ijust was trying to be cautious
of what, how hard I went rightand and when I left there, I
just called somebody and I said,hey, I just spoke with
so-and-so, how is it?
I'm like, you know, I don'tthink he's, I just don't know.
And he's like, well, he can'tbe true to himself.
(21:18):
And as soon as this person saidthat, I was like, yeah, he
can't right.
No, he won't, he won't right,he won't.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Big difference and it's just like and it's what.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
So my question is this for me, my obsession for my
alcohol and lying to myselfleft me at the same time,
literally left me.
At the same time I realized howmuch I was lying to myself
about the man.
I was right, and that obsessionfor my alcohol left when I
(21:47):
stopped lying to myself, justify, rationalize or minimize
stopped lying to myself of who Iwas and how I was supposed to
be and just started being verytrue to myself.
In my inner thoughts, right Inmy inner thoughts, life became
easier.
Just this whole walk through ajust became easier for me.
Everything that I do becomeeasier because now I'm true to
(22:09):
myself, right, I don't I.
I, I respect what you say, butI'm still going to what I feel
is going to be how I feel.
How I walk is going to be how Iwalk.
How my Lord tells me to walk ishow I'm going to walk.
That's being true to myself.
And if I have to tell youstories about myself, no, right,
I can't do it.
And so my question is is do youremember, when you that?
(22:33):
Do you remember that actual,that transition in yourself to
where you stopped lying toyourself and you started getting
real with yourself because he'dhit me between the eyes with
things that I didn't evenrealize.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
And that self-introspection thing about
lying to myself, it really Imean, that was several years
long and it continues to somedegree.
Oh yeah, I catch myself.
The way I describe it in me iswhat is my motive?
Is my motive selfish?
There's a difference between mywants and my needs, and is this
(23:14):
something I want or is thissomething I need, and not just
beyond?
You know, not just.
Is this what I need?
Is this what I need to be ableto be the best person, I can be
right, so that I can be of helpto other people?
It it's, it's a you know, um,yeah, but that that lying to
myself, I lived in lie.
I mean, lies were tools for meto be able to get what I wanted,
(23:41):
you know.
And so, as far as a conscienceabout truth, I had none.
And then getting in here, youknow it's a whole different
realm of thought and feelingwhen you start getting into the
introspection in yourself andstart asking yourself why am I
doing this?
(24:01):
You know what is my motive fordoing this, and I mean down to
the thoughts.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And the big book is full.
That's what it is.
Motive why?
Why are we doing what we do?
Because, if God can, does Godcare about what we do with our
hands?
Obviously yes, but does he caremore about why we're doing it
Right?
Obviously, because, if he canget to your heart, he can change
the outcome of your hands, theoutworking of your hands.
Motive is everything.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I heard this more than once coming along is that
you're right where you'resupposed to be.
Okay, you know and, and and but.
But the thing is is for me, andI think the difference was was
that when people accepted mewhere I was and they could, and
yet they still showed me thelove and compassion that, that
you know that that it was likeokay, whatever you're you're,
(24:58):
you're where you're at.
Just know that that I'm herefor you.
I'm here, I'm, you know,whenever you're ready, if, if
something changes.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Great advice.
I need to listen to that.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I want you to know.
I want you to know that I'mhere and that there is.
You know there is a solutionand, and you know you may not be
ready to hear it or want it now, um, you may.
You may want to blame all yourproblems on here and, you know,
on everything else around youand everything.
But when foot back to what yousaid, you move at the speed of
pain, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, and so yeah, he , he.
I made it very clear that I'm Iwant to help, right, I'm right
here, but I mean I think there'sa.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Anyways, I, I don't know where that's going and I,
well, we spoke, I get, and I,and I'm not gonna, I get
frustrated because none, I'veheard.
Paul, there's a guy, he's deadnow, but in there, the old, uh,
friday night meeting, I'm notgonna.
Uh, he, he had said one time Iwas, I had like four, three or
four people in there.
You know when that meeting usedto be huge, remember before
COVID and this old timer who's aprick Sorry, don't erase that,
(26:02):
he was a prick Anyway but he hadsaid some of us got to do.
One person, one of thosenewcomers was sharing about they
just lost a cousin who didn'thave them, and then his next
share was some of us got to dieso others can live.
No, no, some of us will die,but they don't have to, right,
we don't have to.
And me and Larry get, we'repassionate, we get frustrated
because you know, and I, I'm,I'm, I'm, I'm never going to
(26:24):
stop looking for that one wordTo maybe think I can stop them
from one more Right, I can savethem from one more episode,
right, and they get it.
I may never, because we movewith the speed of pain, but I
need to let people be where theyare a lot, yeah, so I
appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Isn't that in some way us playing God, though?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
It is, and it's just that it goes back to my control.
I'm just a control freak, right?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I want to be able to pop his head open, turn a couple
screws, shut his head back downand he's fixed or not fixed,
he's ready, ready already, yeahreceive, but he's not ready and
it's not for.
It's not my job to get himready.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
No, it's my job to be prepared when he is ready right
and and be available when he isright, and that's what I think.
When I go back to that, themore I think about you know, and
I think there's a lot of peoplethat were asking me to go see
this person Right, and I, youknow, I feel like there was a
little bit of a pressure put onme, but about it and I probably
put it on myself is probablywhat I did but I just want to
(27:23):
help people so much that I justwant to be able to just drag
them in and say just follow mefor a little bit.
I ain't perfect, but I can helpyou show a way.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But our book talks about it and I know the book a
little bit.
It says you know, we can ruin alater opportunity.
Yes, and I was reminding myselfof that, which is where you
know, paul, that's where thewisdom of it you know.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And I reminded myself of that yesterday when I was
sitting with that guy.
It's like I had to back away alittle bit because I didn't want
to.
I just was like, okay, we canruin a later opportunity, Right
right, and I just backed.
But he's sober, he's got 45days sober, so I mean he's, I
mean he's God bless, yeah, he'sthere, he's working it, you know
.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
So, anyways, that's really what I wanted to talk
about.
One of down.
I'm not going to chase you, I'mnot going to try and force this
down your throat.
The only thing I can do isshare my experience strength
with hope with you and point outto you, when I you know, the
things that I observe and see,that that you know, that I think
I understand about you.
He said but your recovery isyour responsibility.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
We've shared that too .
Speaker 4 (28:28):
It's your life.
It's your recovery and that's,and I and I tell people.
You know, and I've seen I meanmost recently there was a guy
that I sponsored on and off fora while uh, used to come to the
night's ferry meeting, um, uh,he would come in and out and you
know, and I and I, I just tellpeople, as long as you're still
alive, there's still hope, rightyeah, yeah, but it goes back to
(28:49):
what we talked about in theprevious episode, or maybe it
was this one a little bitearlier.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
But it's like when you know we all, when did you
say they're going to come?
When they're ready, right, whenthey're ready.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Sometimes they die out there and they don't make it
.
I think that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
That's the part that hurts me.
Right Is that you don't have todie, man, you don't have to die
.
But what is that?
Like, I got a friend that livesin Texas and I'm trying to help
with the daughter right now andhe's just like she's hopeless.
She's hopeless and I'm like,well, as long as she's alive,
there's hope.
And we'll just keep working,we'll keep talking, keep praying
.
And this whole podcast startedfrom a guy that just kept
(29:28):
working with his son, keptworking with his son.
Kept working with his son Kepta roof over his head, kept
helping him.
Kept helping him Just happenedto take the wrong dose at the
wrong time.
Right, he didn't do anythingwrong.
You know, my friend didn't doanything wrong, he did
everything right.
He just the son just wasn'tready.
Right, just wasn't ready.
And some of us don't.
And it just goes back to what Iwant to talk to the very.
(29:50):
They just weren't being true tothemselves.
Right, they weren't, they werestill telling themselves lies.
That this is just where I'mgoing to be, this is where I'm
going to end up.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So I justify, rationalize and minimize the
minute.
I'm doing that, I'm lying tomyself.
And once I'm thoroughlyconvinced that I'm going to lie
to.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Paul and once's, something that I could text I
got back after leaving mydiscussion yesterday was that
you know, he's all these things.
I'm like I was every bit ofthat.
In fact, I was probably betterthan he was.
So I mean, he's no differentthan the rest of us, right?
He's no different than the restof us.
We're all liars.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
So, paul, given your, there's a question I want and I
asked Rachel, she wasn't, shedoesn't have what you have as
far as you know the experientialaspect of it.
But I'm going to go, I'm goingto go back to on the street, you
know, we see him.
How many have I mean I meanballpark are out there because
of drug and alcohol abuse?
How many have mental, mentalproblems because of drug and
(30:53):
alcohol abuse?
And how many are out there, youknow?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
just because of mental health yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I mean what?
What do you?
What can we do to help more?
What can we do, I mean whenwhat's out there, because I
can't deal with the mentalhealth issues, but someone with
drug and alcohol addictedwhether you know whether that's
brought on, I mean I can I'vegot a good friend that um,
actually he sits on ourcommunity board, um or hospital
and he's just, he's a, he's ajust a I mean just to me he's a
(31:19):
saint.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
He actually goes out on the street yeah, and, and he
take and he takes things like uh, you know the wintertime
blankets and sleeping bags, andhe's not.
He is not in any way everasking anybody to do anything.
He's there to try and make maketheir life as comfortable as he
can.
I mean, um, and, and to me it'slike, wow it.
(31:43):
It takes, it takes a lot ofheart to to just go out and try
to to see to someone's comfort,rather than to try and save them
.
You know, he's not trying tobring them in, he's not trying
to do anything Certainly canshare.
You know where there'sresources, but those people out
there that are just, I mean, youstop and think they're lost.
(32:04):
They're extremely lost andthings have happened and I speak
from my own experience about.
You know they came fromsomewhere.
You know they probably didn'task for you know they came from
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
They probably didn't ask for, you know, to have this
life, but they've somehowmanaged to navigate this life,
you know, the best way that theycan, and that is their
circumstance.
I think we there's a referencein the Bible about, you know,
about the poor and saying whenJesus said, we're not going to
save them all, we're not goingto save the poor from their lot.
(32:38):
And then there's other lines ofthought in that same thing.
It's our mentality that puts usin that place, that thinks that
that's where we can't climb upout of that.
And I don't know, I mean, I'mnot going to get into that deep
a thought.
What I know is that it would bean impossible task to think
that we could go out there andreally save a lot of people.
(33:01):
There's a lot of people outthere suffering.
I know that.
Again, it comes down to for meit came down to the
circumstances that were, youknow that presented themselves,
and I just pray that they havethose circumstances present
themselves to them.
I think everybody has thedeserves to have the opportunity
to live, to live a safe lifewhere they're you know whether
(33:21):
or not they're not, um wheretheir basic needs are being met
and and I think we do as asociety.
Society, we try to do the bestwe can but, uh, we fall far
short, largely because of ourgreed.
We see power, greed and moneyand all this other stuff.
There was a TV evangelist, andI don't necessarily care for a
lot of TV evangelists becausethere are a lot of times.
(33:45):
But this guy.
He made a very profoundstatement.
He said we have the money andthe resources to solve
homelessness, hunger, all ofthat.
We have it, we just don't do it.
And to me that was like wow,yeah, okay.
How long has that been going onSince recorded history?
You know civilization, thehaves and the have-nots.
(34:08):
I look at, you know, I loveanthropology from the standpoint
of looking at whichcivilizations have done the best
at trying to, and there havebeen civilizations and societies
that they actually look aftertheir people.
They, you know they don't let.
You know, they don't let peoplesuffer.
They'll, you know, they'll lookafter them.
You know everybody is theirbrother and sister.
(34:31):
We just don't live in that worldright now, you know, and so you
know, what can I do?
I can use my position and thethings that I've been given, the
doors that have opened for me,to try and do the best I can, to
try and make something better,and I think for all of us it's.
You know I vet charities beforeI give money to them.
You know I vet charities.
(34:52):
Before I give money to them, Ilook online and see how much of
their money actually goes to thething that they're trying to do
, rather than you know how muchof it goes to administration and
cost and things like that.
So I mean just things, thatjust being conscientious about
what can you do, are you doingwhat you can?
Don't hold yourself.
You know, know, don't beatyourself up.
(35:13):
For for all that, I don't knowwhat god's plan is for this
world.
I know, but I, I know thisisn't anything new it's been
gone for thousands of years allright all right guys.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, robert, thank you, you're welcome.
Paul, thank you for coming in,appreciate, appreciate it.
Hey, don't forget recovery onfiltered podcast, that gmailcom
If you want to reach out.
Recovery on filter podcast.
Just like our boy heart didfrom Denver, he said I haven't
even told you.
He's actually going to be instudio so we're trying to work
out the date, but he wants tocome.
(35:45):
He wants to come to a fewmeetings with us and he's going
to come in and record.
He's going to come in andrecord.
He's got some PTSD storiesthat's going to tear your heart
out.
33 years as a firefighter, hetold me in one day, one day he
had to pick up three babies fromSid in one day.
That's just horrible.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, that'll drive you to drink.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Oh boy, yeah, so I'm excited to get him in here.
He's going to be in here.
All right, guys, let's get outof here.
All right, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you If you
did not come back next week, andwe'll try again.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Hey, thanks, Rob.
Come back next week andhopefully something will be
different and something willsink in.
Take care, this has beenRecovery Unfiltered.
And Paul Larry loves it when we drink and swallow
right at the microphone yeah,I'll fucker.
Sponsored by Swallow.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey, you know what I do got to owe you amends, though
I'm going to hold on a second.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Whoa.
Then you put that fucker on air.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's going to be on air now.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm getting better, paul.
You're getting better about theeffort, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello Robert.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Hey, hello, robert.
Hey, you're getting ready totake a fucking drink, right?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
there.
Welcome back, brother, welcomeback, hey, so that's so.
We just finished up with paul.
That was, uh, you know it's funabout your story, paul, paul's
back with us.
What was so fun about listeningto paul's story was you don't
hear.
You know I I stayed in my samecareer, right, because I never
lost anything.
Paul went from having you, wentfrom having zero to senior vice
(00:51):
president of a huge you know,of a large healthcare facility.
So I mean those.
However you want to look atthat, whether it's a dream
coming true or just the promises, or however you want to look at
that.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Well, all Paul did was follow.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Follow, walk through the doors that God opened.
That's exactly where I wasgoing he always does a foot and
just if god says it, just followit.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
You know, that's one of the things we say and I've
shared this.
I've even shared it with paul.
I was at the uh, well, morethan just paul, I think I was at
the united spirit meeting.
I'll try to, because when Ifirst got in here and I've
shared it I try to listen toeverybody, which I didn't always
.
While there was some people,when they talk, I just fucking
tune them out.
There was one guy that Icouldn't stand, primary purpose
(01:31):
oh fuck, here he goes again.
So I just tune them out and atthis point I'm maybe two years
sober and I've been praying forsomething, I mean working with
God and not getting any answers.
I thought and at the end ofthis guy Sherry, just happened
to catch the end of it Like, ohshit, there was my cause, god,
god speaks to me, right, right,like oh shit, there was.
Now, am I going to humble myselfand ask this guy at the end of
(01:52):
the meeting hey man, I caughtthe end of it.
Would you please Cause it's andthe whole thing he says Rob, I
love when you, and he doesn'tknow what I thought about him.
I love him today.
He doesn't know who this isanyway.
That's funny.
It taught me God, taught memore humility to listen, but
(02:12):
there are certain men that Ihear better.
I listen to everybody, butthere are certain Paul's one of
them, bob's one of them, scott'sone of them.
I can hear when they speak.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I can hear when they speak, I can hear them and I
need that Very true, and there'ssome ladies that speak when
Mary speaks.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
But I mean I get a lot from new people only because
those are like scouts.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Oh, my gosh, stuck in their ass.
It was still no good out there.
I'll stay sober.
Thank you for doing my homework.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I get when.
When somebody says I got 24hours, I'm all ears man.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
I want to hear it I want to hear their voice.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I love seeing the pain.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Oh yes, sir, you know what we're sick to want to hear
that right.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
No, I want to see that pain, but if people don't,
understand what we mean by that.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Because if you see that sickness and then you watch
that light get turned back on,the joy for us, right, the joy
that we get watching that lightcome on, like we saw with Mikey
Stillman watching that all thatcome back on, like we watched
with Nathan.
I mean Nathan was six yearssober before that light just
worked his steps and watchingGod is just he's just
illuminating now and it's so fun.
(03:20):
But I'm surprised you didn'tmake me do my amends before you
started running your mouth.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Well, I don't get it.
I can't get a word at edgewise.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
With your big mouth, you started it.
Prick, go ahead.
Hey, you know how I gave you.
You know how I gave you all theshit for uh, for you not having
your face close enough to themic right right and how I always
got to mess with your volumeswhich is wrong.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I always have my face the same distance.
You know what the?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
problem what?
I had this fucking mic insidemy mouth talking.
That's why it was so fuckingloud all the time.
I finally came back up here,I'm like I got to figure out why
your mic is so low all the time.
So I recorded on your mic andit was the same as how I speak
and I realized, oh fuck, I mustbe sitting too close to the mic.
So, yes, it was me.
So was it was me.
(04:11):
So it wasn't you.
That's an amends that sucked.
Who taught you how to make a?
Go fuck yourself, jesus, mylousy ass sponsor.
Yeah, so hey, I want to talkabout canada a little bit.
Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
So I had, uh, it's freaking great right I went with
dougie p who and jason r.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Jason r, yeah, but me and dougie were travel partners
.
That poor dude had to travelwith me and, for god sake,
you've had to stay with me in mymotorhome.
I'm a very high-maintenance guyat nighttime.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Paul, he likes to cuddle too.
He likes to spoon.
It pisses me off.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
But here you were small enough to cuddle, it was
your motorhome.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I got to do what you got to do.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Doug wouldn't let me cuddle with him.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
But man, I'm still a sugar net.
When I wake up in the middle ofthe night, I need sugar.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I'm good as long as I don't take one, if I eat one
and maybe if I tried to go tosleep without it, so anyway, so
it was, uh, it was awesome.
It was super tough to get intomeetings.
There was meetings going 24hours a day.
There was you had an East sideand a West side side and there
was just all kinds of meetingsand you had these little
schedules not little there.
You had these schedules and youknow these, mine started from 9
(05:11):
to 11, and then another one'sfrom 11 to 130, then another one
from 130.
I mean, they were just non-stop.
Well, when I set up my scheduleright, because I I was going by
larry's schedule instead ofgoing, hey, let's just see what
happens, today I, I'm going totry and make it to this one.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Let's let God work.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
today I'm going to try to make it to this one.
No, I had Larry's scheduleright, oh yeah.
So I had one at 9 o'clock thatI wanted to go to, so me, Jason
and Doug all made it to thefirst one.
I was like all right, what areyou talking about?
It's filled up.
(05:46):
Why would you guys havesomething like this?
Put these meetings out and it'sfilled up.
Fuck.
Now I got to find anothermeeting, so I was looking for
another meeting.
I went running over that one.
It was on the west side.
I went running over there andthat one was fucking full.
Now, Larry's pissed, you guyshave these meetings but nobody
can get into them.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Well, the people can get into them.
You just couldn't.
There's people in there, justnot you.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So I went over onto this couch and I started pouting
.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
I was just pouting Is that when I got the call.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yes, that's when I called you I was like
motherfucker and I was poutinglike a little bitch and this
little old lady sat down next tome, right, and we're sitting
there, we're just chit-chattinga little bit and I go, I've been
trying to get into two meetingsand I haven't been able to get
into them.
It's difficult.
And she turns around like this.
She's like did you try to gointo that meeting?
(06:32):
And it was come meet yourneighbors from the East Coast,
right.
And I'm like no, it's.
And as soon as those words werecoming out of my mouth I
realized what she was doing I go, I get it, Just get into any
meeting, she goes, right.
So Larry was humbled pretty fast, pretty fast.
But then on Saturday we I waslike I told Doug I said, hey,
(06:53):
whatever happens today happens,right, here's a meeting I want
to go to.
And then we went to the firstone and I'm still sitting there
pouting a little bit, andbecause I just hadn't, I mean,
and Doug and Jason were justgoing off about this other
meeting and they were talkingabout how great meetings they
were into and I hadn't been intoone, and I sat, we finally, the
three of us, went to the firstmeeting of the day and the first
(07:15):
speaker came up and it was like, oh, this is good, it was
better than what I've seen.
But then the second one came up.
This girl was Madeline H fromout of new york and she raised
the freaking roof of this placehere here's the big spoiler
alert.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
I don't know how many people are new in this room,
but if you're new, I'm gonnablow the lid off the thing
higher powers will happeningwith or without me.
They don't need me on board, Idon't have to sign off, I don't
need to be in acceptance thatshit is happening.
Alcoholics, anonymous.
And the third step inparticular is the invitation for
(07:53):
me to get on board so I canstop getting dragged behind it
she went off for 20 minutes.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I mean she, she just hold on.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
She used the f4 too, right?
Speaker 3 (08:03):
I don't know how many people are four things in the
world that I care about morethan anything else, and that is
power, control, attention andaffection.
Those are the four things I amtruly motivated by as a person
and as an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
And so I was sitting there and when she said that,
right there, I, I'm like thisgirl is inside my brain, right,
I, I, I'm like this girl isinside my brain, right, I mean
it was incredible how, when shesaid those four things, I'm like
that's exactly what, I've allthat, that's exactly it.
And then, so she finished, Imean I got, I, I was able to, we
were able to buy all therecordings, right, I was able to
(08:38):
get several recordings and Iactually got the one that Doug
and Jason went into and I'mgoing to try and listen to it
this afternoon.
But so at the end of that, I'mlike I got to get this girl on
the podcast.
So when she was done, she kindof came down off the stage and
she was just surrounded, right,and I was like screw that.
So I left and, uh, I wentupstairs.
I was going to try to go intoanother meeting as I was going
(09:00):
up that escalator, god hit me,get your ass back down there.
So I went back down there and Iwas standing there, standing
right.
I wasn't gonna wait in thatline, because I'm Larry, I
shouldn't have to wait in a line, right?
No, you shouldn't.
I mean, just look at me, youknow who I am yeah, come on so I
stood there for the longesttime until that line finally got
short enough and I'm like, well, she ain't gonna break away
from that to come over and talkto me, because so I'll might as
(09:21):
well go stand in line.
So I stood in line.
I finally got to the end of itand I told her.
I said, hey, I got a podcast.
I love, love, nothing more tohave you come on.
And she goes yeah, I go, canyou?
You know, can we talk at yourdesk?
So she finished up and then, um, I got her number and I said
can we meet afterwards, likeoutside?
She goes, of course.
(09:50):
So she came up, she met with usand we talked about it she's.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
She actually lives in new york, but she comes out
here, uh once.
She comes out here in june andshe comes out here in december.
So she was done.
She was getting ready to flyback home.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
June's my sobriety, jim, december's my belly button
birthday well, she'll be outhere for your belly button
birthday.
So she's gonna come out yearsold so she's oh god, so she's
gonna come out here record man,and I'm going to tell you I am
she, she, when I was done,listen to her.
Jason's like do you want to goto another one?
I'm like, absolutely not, I'mdone, I'm done.
(10:15):
You know, and we would mean Jay, me and Doug did finally try to
go into one, but it was fulltoo, and I was like I told Doug,
I said, you know, I am that,listen to her speak.
What paid for my entire trip.
As far as I was concerned.
I mean I literally the from theFriday of just.
I mean I got to a couple ofmeetings but they were blah, but
then and but I got to hear herspeak and she, her whole story
(10:38):
was just incredible.
Listen to her, just the way shespoke, it was almost like she
was inside my head and I can'twait to have her on the show.
So she's going to be here.
Good, she's gonna be here.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
So you wanted to bring up um, I did so, uh, and
this is this is gonna be forpaul we got, because I'm not on
social media paul at all, neverhave been.
Uh, larry is so I had no, sohe's I, he shares, I live
vicariously through him, throughthe social media avenues and
bonnie and my wife.
Yeah.
So here here I'm gonna readthis is a.
This is a from jim.
(11:07):
I gave away his identity lasttime.
It's jim hart.
He's our age a little bit atlarry's age, a little bit older
33 33 years as a firefighter,retired, living in Denver.
Just jumped in.
He jumped in AA with both feet,so he's brand new kind of.
He says guys, I promise I'm notstalking you so I'll quit
sending emails, but after everyepisode you ask us, the
listeners, to let you know howyou did.
I'm old, so he's retired and hemows lawns on a golf course a
(11:30):
day and catch up.
Today I listened to Mike andKim.
It's Mike Stillman and Kim.
They lost their son at the sametime.
Jason lost his son.
I took so much from it.
The support of Kim was soincredible and touching.
I could go on and on about thestory, the similarities and
differences, but I just want tohit one major thing and have you
tell Mike.
Thank you so much.
I played some music on myheadphones for a few hours
(11:52):
yesterday after I listened toyour show Total 80s hits.
I dig it.
It took me back to high schooland a bit of nostalgia.
With those memories came a lotof reflection on the start of my
alcoholism.
Along with that, of course,came the memories of people and
how badly I treated so many ofthem.
I was actually feeling prettylow and guilty by this AM.
I mean, how do you make livingamends to people you don't see,
(12:16):
and of course, at this point youcan't make amends to someone.
You had you treated poorly 36years ago without hurting
someone.
So I was feeling guilty in themorning.
Then mike got to talking abouthow much guilt he feels with kim
, his wife.
How could he make up for somany things?
Then larry was talking aboutthe same things with katie.
Then rob the voice of reasonalways pops up with great
insight.
(12:36):
Thank you for that, jim.
I guess the point is, by thetime the show was over I felt so
much lighter.
Had Mike not taken it down thatroad, especially near the end,
I may have walked away stillfeeling down, but didn't.
So you wanted to help at leastone person today.
Today, that was me, so Paul,day that was me, so paul, and
(12:56):
because I don't know a lot ofthe things that used to bother
me I work in the steps were notso many things that I'd done to
people, but shit that I had said, the hurtful shit that I had
said.
And you can't go back.
Hey, remember when I called youa fat toad or you know whatever
back then and you and you wouldhope they would forgotten about
it, but you know they didn't,because I don't forget nope no,
you know, sticks and stones isbullshit.
Words.
I mean words.
My dad could have told me cutin, cut deeper than any, any
(13:18):
lash, any whip I'd rather had aspanking so the question he
asked is how do you make aliving amends to people you
would hurt, you know, and paul'sgot 30, coming up on 37, 38
years of sobriety.
Paul, how do you make a livingamends to people you would hurt
years ago?
What is it?
What is a living amends to you?
And and how would you answerthat gentleman's question?
Speaker 4 (13:38):
this may sound too simplistic, but no, I, I don't
do the things to them that Iused to do.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
I you know or to anybody new right.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
The behavior must stop and and you know it's I've
got a, I've got this, thishealth app on my phone that goes
through work, and two of thethings that it asks me on a
daily basis have you shownyourself compassion with your
emotions?
The other thing have you showedkindness to somebody else and
(14:11):
to me?
Those two things I can alwaysanswer yes, no-transcript, and
(14:34):
can I give myself forgivenessfor, you know, for the things
that I don't think I do?
Well, um, my first sponsorinstilled in me that just, just
what you just said, there arepeople that I'll never be able
to make amends to.
Okay, but the but that's wherethe living amends comes in is is
how we, we take the things thatwe used to do and the hurtful
things and the selfish thingsthat we used to do.
We just don't do them anymore,you know, and if you want to
(14:58):
flip that coin on its other side, overtly be kind to other
people, I'll tell you somethingfunny.
It's something I learned yearsand years ago and I've done this
as kind of an experiment.
I still do it from time to time, walking in public somewhere
and just smiling at people ohyeah and watching to see.
Do they smile back?
I don't, you know, don't get aresentment if they don't, you
(15:20):
know, it's like that's theirbusiness, that's, you know,
whatever, um, but that is one ofthe kindest things that you can
give a gift to everybody andyou don't have to know them, you
don't have to say it doesn'tcost you anything doesn't cost't
cost you anything.
Just smile at somebody.
There are times when you knowwhen that's gotten me in trouble
.
It's like what are you smiling?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
at Right.
Why are you so fucking happy?
What are you looking at?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
But the point being is, I don't care.
I especially love it when I'mwalking and I see and I'm
reading the facial body languageof somebody who looks like
they're in turmoil or deep inthought about something, and
maybe it's, you know, maybe it'ssomething, maybe it's nothing,
(16:05):
but if I can make eye contactwith that person and give them a
smile, I feel good.
I feel good that you know,maybe they needed that and
whether or not they smile backor whatever, I feel like that in
a very small way, that'stransmitting love Right.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Oh for sure, I tell you guys that Now you answered
the question.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
You answered Jim's question.
How do you make a living inmen's?
I think living in men's.
I've got an answer myself.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, and I've said this before on the living in
men's, and I think Paul said itwell is stop doing the shit that
you've done right With my wife.
I just had to change everythingabout myself right.
And and those living amends.
This is I'm kind of going on acouple of things here, there.
(16:43):
If you stop doing the bullshitthat you did, eventually right,
Eventually that becomes the pastright and you don't, and those
things you become on a newpersona and a new character.
And those things you become ona new persona and a new
character and that new charactertakes on a new life of itself
and that old person dies awayand they forget about that stuff
.
There's my living amends.
(17:04):
My toughest time, my toughesttime when I got sober, was
forgiving myself.
That was the toughest thing Ihad to do was forgive myself.
And how I do that.
Now, paul said it too.
I give back to others, right.
The more I give, the more Ifeel better about myself.
(17:25):
I tell you guys in the grouptext every once in a while.
I always say make a strangersmile, right.
I used to tell that to my kidseven before I knew this.
Hug a stranger, right.
I used to tell them that make astranger laugh.
Today.
I just I've always felt thatinside, you know, because when
somebody makes me laugh that Ihave no fucking idea who they
are.
My whole day changes.
My whole day changes Because ifyou're sitting shitty, you know
(17:48):
.
If you're sitting like Job,like pouting, and somebody
smiles at you, you go huh, okay.
Or you say what the fuck areyou so happy for?
You know, it just depends onhow deep in the hole you are.
But that's my living amends,yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Well, and mine is as practical.
Because, if you ask, doug,because my last prayer we talked
about this before I leave,because I do my 11th step upon
awakening.
We're going to retire at night.
But before I drive away,because usually I have to drive
somewhere, I ask God who can Ilove on today?
Right, and Jim, this is myanswer to you.
And I ask God, who can I loveon today?
And sometimes it's the cashierat the grocery store who needs
(18:23):
just a kind word or a smile.
Many times it's in my own house, right, you know changing that,
right, and it's always gettingout of.
And now that does not take awaywhat I said 36 years ago Nope,
nope.
But I am not that man anymoreand in my way, and I pretend
(18:44):
that every time I do somethingkind for someone else, not just
for the sake of being kind, Godis blessing that person, that I
said that harmful thing to.
So I try to make it a consciouseffort and in my way that's just
every time I do something kindand get out of rob.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
god's blessing that person you're further and
further away from that, fromthat prick right.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
You're further and there are times, paul, I have
struggle and I get up and I'mnot much, but I'm all I think
about in the day and just, andit's a grind like mother, but I
I mean it happens I mean you,you know, we are not well.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
This is progress, not perfection.
We are far from being perfect.
Far from being perfect.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But and I want to say something what you had said
about three minutes ago was oneof the most profound things I
ever heard you say, which wasalso the way you described it.
So that's the only time you'regoing to get a fucking comment.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
I'm sure glad I got that recorded, yeah, but but
it's the way I think.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
That is truly the way I think.
That is truly the way I feel.
Anything that gets me out ofhere is always a benefit.
And when I'm sponsoring, I justgot done with three men Sam
just got done, three have beenthrough the steps, one just went
and got a job.
It's awesome, I'm proud, I'msuper proud of him.
But when I'm pouring myself,when I'm giving of my time, my
talents, my treasure, whateverGod's given to me, treasure,
whatever God's given to me andanother human being who's
filling me up, right, it's God,and that feeling is what I've
(19:58):
been chasing all my life throughsex, drugs, booze, yes, and I
didn't know that's what I needed.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
And I'm the same way with you, rob the more I give of
myself, the more I give ofmyself, and the more people
reciprocate with thank yous andthat kind of stuff.
That's what I was looking for.
Or, and that kind of stuff,that's what I was looking for.
Or even if I don't get that, no, no, and you're right.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
But if I see by doing it, but if I see that person
growing off of knowledge thatI've given them, that's what.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
That's what I chased okay, now to thine own self, be
true.
Yeah, so about that.
So, um, it was I.
I don't want to go into a tonof detail on on the person, but
I was.
I got there, I got to go sitwith somebody yesterday I just
got out of rehab, right andtalking to them and working
through some stuff, and he wasstill such in so much denial and
(20:44):
I, I actually what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (20:46):
He was just, he was still blaming, he was still
blaming, blaming everybody else,right, right, right, he was
still blaming some stuff, right,he was still blaming stuff,
stuff, right, okay, he was stillblaming stuff and you know he
fresh right.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So I don't want to start getting on a soapbox and
pounding on it because I, I, Ijust was trying to be cautious
of what, how hard I went rightand and when I left there, I
just called somebody and I said,hey, I just spoke with
so-and-so, how is it?
I'm like, you know, I don'tthink he's, I just don't know.
And he's like, well, he can'tbe true to himself.
(21:18):
And as soon as this person saidthat, I was like, yeah, he
can't right.
No, he won't, he won't right,he won't.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
Big difference and it's just like and it's what.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
So my question is this for me, my obsession for my
alcohol and lying to myselfleft me at the same time,
literally left me.
At the same time I realized howmuch I was lying to myself
about the man.
I was right, and that obsessionfor my alcohol left when I
(21:47):
stopped lying to myself, justify, rationalize or minimize
stopped lying to myself of who Iwas and how I was supposed to
be and just started being verytrue to myself.
In my inner thoughts, right Inmy inner thoughts, life became
easier.
Just this whole walk through ajust became easier for me.
Everything that I do becomeeasier because now I'm true to
(22:09):
myself, right, I don't I.
I, I respect what you say, butI'm still going to what I feel
is going to be how I feel.
How I walk is going to be how Iwalk.
How my Lord tells me to walk ishow I'm going to walk.
That's being true to myself.
And if I have to tell youstories about myself, no, right,
I can't do it.
And so my question is is do youremember, when you that?
(22:33):
Do you remember that actual,that transition in yourself to
where you stopped lying toyourself and you started getting
real with yourself because he'dhit me between the eyes with
things that I didn't evenrealize.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
And that self-introspection thing about
lying to myself, it really Imean, that was several years
long and it continues to somedegree.
Oh yeah, I catch myself.
The way I describe it in me iswhat is my motive?
Is my motive selfish?
There's a difference between mywants and my needs, and is this
(23:14):
something I want or is thissomething I need, and not just
beyond?
You know, not just.
Is this what I need?
Is this what I need to be ableto be the best person, I can be
right, so that I can be of helpto other people?
It it's, it's a you know, um,yeah, but that that lying to
myself, I lived in lie.
I mean, lies were tools for meto be able to get what I wanted,
(23:41):
you know.
And so, as far as a conscienceabout truth, I had none.
And then getting in here, youknow it's a whole different
realm of thought and feelingwhen you start getting into the
introspection in yourself andstart asking yourself why am I
doing this?
(24:01):
You know what is my motive fordoing this, and I mean down to
the thoughts.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And the big book is full.
That's what it is.
Motive why?
Why are we doing what we do?
Because, if God can, does Godcare about what we do with our
hands?
Obviously yes, but does he caremore about why we're doing it
Right?
Obviously, because, if he canget to your heart, he can change
the outcome of your hands, theoutworking of your hands.
Motive is everything.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
I heard this more than once coming along is that
you're right where you'resupposed to be.
Okay, you know and, and and but.
But the thing is is for me, andI think the difference was was
that when people accepted mewhere I was and they could, and
yet they still showed me thelove and compassion that, that
you know that that it was likeokay, whatever you're you're,
(24:58):
you're where you're at.
Just know that that I'm herefor you.
I'm here, I'm, you know,whenever you're ready, if, if
something changes.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Great advice.
I need to listen to that.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
I want you to know.
I want you to know that I'mhere and that there is.
You know there is a solutionand, and you know you may not be
ready to hear it or want it now, um, you may.
You may want to blame all yourproblems on here and, you know,
on everything else around youand everything.
But when foot back to what yousaid, you move at the speed of
pain, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, and so yeah, he , he.
I made it very clear that I'm Iwant to help, right, I'm right
here, but I mean I think there'sa.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Anyways, I, I don't know where that's going and I,
well, we spoke, I get, and I,and I'm not gonna, I get
frustrated because none, I'veheard.
Paul, there's a guy, he's deadnow, but in there, the old, uh,
friday night meeting, I'm notgonna.
Uh, he, he had said one time Iwas, I had like four, three or
four people in there.
You know when that meeting usedto be huge, remember before
COVID and this old timer who's aprick Sorry, don't erase that,
(26:02):
he was a prick Anyway but he hadsaid some of us got to do.
One person, one of thosenewcomers was sharing about they
just lost a cousin who didn'thave them, and then his next
share was some of us got to dieso others can live.
No, no, some of us will die,but they don't have to, right,
we don't have to.
And me and Larry get, we'repassionate, we get frustrated
because you know, and I, I'm,I'm, I'm, I'm never going to
(26:24):
stop looking for that one wordTo maybe think I can stop them
from one more Right, I can savethem from one more episode,
right, and they get it.
I may never, because we movewith the speed of pain, but I
need to let people be where theyare a lot, yeah, so I
appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Isn't that in some way us playing God, though?
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
It is, and it's just that it goes back to my control.
I'm just a control freak, right?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I want to be able to pop his head open, turn a couple
screws, shut his head back downand he's fixed or not fixed,
he's ready, ready already, yeahreceive, but he's not ready and
it's not for.
It's not my job to get himready.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
No, it's my job to be prepared when he is ready right
and and be available when he isright, and that's what I think.
When I go back to that, themore I think about you know, and
I think there's a lot of peoplethat were asking me to go see
this person Right, and I, youknow, I feel like there was a
little bit of a pressure put onme, but about it and I probably
put it on myself is probablywhat I did but I just want to
(27:23):
help people so much that I justwant to be able to just drag
them in and say just follow mefor a little bit.
I ain't perfect, but I can helpyou show a way.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But our book talks about it and I know the book a
little bit.
It says you know, we can ruin alater opportunity.
Yes, and I was reminding myselfof that, which is where you
know, paul, that's where thewisdom of it you know.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And I reminded myself of that yesterday when I was
sitting with that guy.
It's like I had to back away alittle bit because I didn't want
to.
I just was like, okay, we canruin a later opportunity, Right
right, and I just backed.
But he's sober, he's got 45days sober, so I mean he's, I
mean he's God bless, yeah, he'sthere, he's working it, you know
.
Speaker 4 (28:06):
So, anyways, that's really what I wanted to talk
about.
One of down.
I'm not going to chase you, I'mnot going to try and force this
down your throat.
The only thing I can do isshare my experience strength
with hope with you and point outto you, when I you know, the
things that I observe and see,that that you know, that I think
I understand about you.
He said but your recovery isyour responsibility.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
We've shared that too .
Speaker 4 (28:28):
It's your life.
It's your recovery and that's,and I and I tell people.
You know, and I've seen I meanmost recently there was a guy
that I sponsored on and off fora while uh, used to come to the
night's ferry meeting, um, uh,he would come in and out and you
know, and I and I, I just tellpeople, as long as you're still
alive, there's still hope, rightyeah, yeah, but it goes back to
(28:49):
what we talked about in theprevious episode, or maybe it
was this one a little bitearlier.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
But it's like when you know we all, when did you
say they're going to come?
When they're ready, right, whenthey're ready.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Sometimes they die out there and they don't make it
.
I think that's the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
That's the part that hurts me.
Right Is that you don't have todie, man, you don't have to die
.
But what is that?
Like, I got a friend that livesin Texas and I'm trying to help
with the daughter right now andhe's just like she's hopeless.
She's hopeless and I'm like,well, as long as she's alive,
there's hope.
And we'll just keep working,we'll keep talking, keep praying
.
And this whole podcast startedfrom a guy that just kept
(29:28):
working with his son, keptworking with his son.
Kept working with his son Kepta roof over his head, kept
helping him.
Kept helping him Just happenedto take the wrong dose at the
wrong time.
Right, he didn't do anythingwrong.
You know, my friend didn't doanything wrong, he did
everything right.
He just the son just wasn'tready.
Right, just wasn't ready.
And some of us don't.
And it just goes back to what Iwant to talk to the very.
(29:50):
They just weren't being true tothemselves.
Right, they weren't, they werestill telling themselves lies.
That this is just where I'mgoing to be, this is where I'm
going to end up.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So I justify, rationalize and minimize the
minute.
I'm doing that, I'm lying tomyself.
And once I'm thoroughlyconvinced that I'm going to lie
to.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Paul and once's, something that I could text I
got back after leaving mydiscussion yesterday was that
you know, he's all these things.
I'm like I was every bit ofthat.
In fact, I was probably betterthan he was.
So I mean, he's no differentthan the rest of us, right?
He's no different than the restof us.
We're all liars.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
So, paul, given your, there's a question I want and I
asked Rachel, she wasn't, shedoesn't have what you have as
far as you know the experientialaspect of it.
But I'm going to go, I'm goingto go back to on the street, you
know, we see him.
How many have I mean I meanballpark are out there because
of drug and alcohol abuse?
How many have mental, mentalproblems because of drug and
(30:53):
alcohol abuse?
And how many are out there, youknow?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
just because of mental health yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I mean what?
What do you?
What can we do to help more?
What can we do, I mean whenwhat's out there, because I
can't deal with the mentalhealth issues, but someone with
drug and alcohol addictedwhether you know whether that's
brought on, I mean I can I'vegot a good friend that um,
actually he sits on ourcommunity board, um or hospital
and he's just, he's a, he's ajust a I mean just to me he's a
(31:19):
saint.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
He actually goes out on the street yeah, and, and he
take and he takes things like uh, you know the wintertime
blankets and sleeping bags, andhe's not.
He is not in any way everasking anybody to do anything.
He's there to try and make maketheir life as comfortable as he
can.
I mean, um, and, and to me it'slike, wow it.
(31:43):
It takes, it takes a lot ofheart to to just go out and try
to to see to someone's comfort,rather than to try and save them
.
You know, he's not trying tobring them in, he's not trying
to do anything Certainly canshare.
You know where there'sresources, but those people out
there that are just, I mean, youstop and think they're lost.
(32:04):
They're extremely lost andthings have happened and I speak
from my own experience about.
You know they came fromsomewhere.
You know they probably didn'task for you know they came from
somewhere.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yes, you know.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
They probably didn't ask for, you know, to have this
life, but they've somehowmanaged to navigate this life,
you know, the best way that theycan, and that is their
circumstance.
I think we there's a referencein the Bible about, you know,
about the poor and saying whenJesus said, we're not going to
save them all, we're not goingto save the poor from their lot.
(32:38):
And then there's other lines ofthought in that same thing.
It's our mentality that puts usin that place, that thinks that
that's where we can't climb upout of that.
And I don't know, I mean, I'mnot going to get into that deep
a thought.
What I know is that it would bean impossible task to think
that we could go out there andreally save a lot of people.
(33:01):
There's a lot of people outthere suffering.
I know that.
Again, it comes down to for meit came down to the
circumstances that were, youknow that presented themselves,
and I just pray that they havethose circumstances present
themselves to them.
I think everybody has thedeserves to have the opportunity
to live, to live a safe lifewhere they're you know whether
(33:21):
or not they're not, um wheretheir basic needs are being met
and and I think we do as asociety.
Society, we try to do the bestwe can but, uh, we fall far
short, largely because of ourgreed.
We see power, greed and moneyand all this other stuff.
There was a TV evangelist, andI don't necessarily care for a
lot of TV evangelists becausethere are a lot of times.
(33:45):
But this guy.
He made a very profoundstatement.
He said we have the money andthe resources to solve
homelessness, hunger, all ofthat.
We have it, we just don't do it.
And to me that was like wow,yeah, okay.
How long has that been going onSince recorded history?
You know civilization, thehaves and the have-nots.
(34:08):
I look at, you know, I loveanthropology from the standpoint
of looking at whichcivilizations have done the best
at trying to, and there havebeen civilizations and societies
that they actually look aftertheir people.
They, you know they don't let.
You know, they don't let peoplesuffer.
They'll, you know, they'll lookafter them.
You know everybody is theirbrother and sister.
(34:31):
We just don't live in that worldright now, you know, and so you
know, what can I do?
I can use my position and thethings that I've been given, the
doors that have opened for me,to try and do the best I can, to
try and make something better,and I think for all of us it's.
You know I vet charities beforeI give money to them.
You know I vet charities.
(34:52):
Before I give money to them, Ilook online and see how much of
their money actually goes to thething that they're trying to do
, rather than you know how muchof it goes to administration and
cost and things like that.
So I mean just things, thatjust being conscientious about
what can you do, are you doingwhat you can?
Don't hold yourself.
You know, know, don't beatyourself up.
(35:13):
For for all that, I don't knowwhat god's plan is for this
world.
I know, but I, I know thisisn't anything new it's been
gone for thousands of years allright all right guys.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
Well, robert, thank you, you're welcome.
Paul, thank you for coming in,appreciate, appreciate it.
Hey, don't forget recovery onfiltered podcast, that gmailcom
If you want to reach out.
Recovery on filter podcast.
Just like our boy heart didfrom Denver, he said I haven't
even told you.
He's actually going to be instudio so we're trying to work
out the date, but he wants tocome.
(35:45):
He wants to come to a fewmeetings with us and he's going
to come in and record.
He's going to come in andrecord.
He's got some PTSD storiesthat's going to tear your heart
out.
33 years as a firefighter, hetold me in one day, one day he
had to pick up three babies fromSid in one day.
That's just horrible.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Yeah, that'll drive you to drink.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Oh boy, yeah, so I'm excited to get him in here.
He's going to be in here.
All right, guys, let's get outof here.
All right, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you If you
did not come back next week, andwe'll try again.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway.
Speaker 2 (36:35):
Hey, thanks, Rob.
Come back next week andhopefully something will be
different and something willsink in.
Take care, this has beenRecovery Unfiltered.
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