May 29, 2025 • 39 mins
Larry and Rob explore the concept that relapse is not about external triggers but rather a reflection of one's spiritual fitness and how thoroughly they've worked on their recovery.
• Discussing a member who relapsed and questioned whether to make amends again
• Sharing stories of transformation, particularly focusing on Nathan's physical and spiritual growth
• Examining the Big Book's guidance on spiritual fitness and the alcoholic mind
• Exploring when making amends might cause more harm than good
• Diving into a powerful story about someone who made unnecessary amends that destroyed their marriage
• Highlighting the importance of motives in recovery actions
• Addressing pornography addiction and other destructive behaviors that affect relationships
• Emphasizing the promise that spiritual fitness leads to freedom from alcohol obsession
• Clarifying that recovery is about taking responsibility rather than blaming external circumstances
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Thank You for Joining Us.. Please share with friends. If you or anyone you know is struggling with alcoholism please reach out to us. We can get you help. recoveryunfilteredpodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ready to go to work?
Yeah, go ahead, lay it down,kid, you sit on the toilet,
don't you Use that as yourmeditation?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Not my wife, not your wife, nor anybody listening to
this podcast has eaten a shitsandwich we didn't have a hand
in making.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to Recovery Unfiltered.
I'm Larry.
I'm an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I am Rob.
I am also an alcoholic.
We are not professionals.
There are no letters after ournames.
We know very little.
However, you will hear the word.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
God and a four letter word in the same sentence, you
will also be offended.
So if you are easily offended,just pass us by.
This podcast is not for you.
Our opinions are just that.
If you don't agree with whatwe're saying, that's okay.
We're going to love you anyways.
We are not in any wayaffiliated with AA.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So sit back, grab a beverage of your choice and get
ready.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Let's go, Hello Robert.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hey, what happened happened I just.
We just got back from webster's, uh, and the shit sandwich came
up webster's dictionary.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, that's about what I had, the restaurant, it's
not bad.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's not as good as you remember, did it create a
shit sandwich.
It's gonna.
It's gonna create something.
Just hold on, we might take abreak.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's funny, but I don't eat a lot of that, though.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The closest thing to fast food that I know in and out
is fast food.
I get that, but I don't it'snot fast food.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I don't classify it as that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's the only I don't mean I haven't had
anything since before cancer.
I haven't had no mcdonald's, orso we're talking like five in
and out I'll eat that that's notfast food.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Exactly that is the best freaking hamburger you can
get in, a quick and in thecheapest.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, yeah, I love, we love it.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
You know how you could.
I always use them from ananalogy.
You know why.
You know why in and out burgeris successful and are cheap?
Cause they do one fucking thing, and they do it to perfection.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, well, their menu is small perfection.
They just have a very limitedmenu, and this is what we do.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
That's the you may, that's, then you do it to
perfection, yeah, so, yeah,that's, uh, uh.
So we're recording on a monday,actually we're recording on a
tuesday our schedule that arekind of whacked out because the
memorial, uh, we are.
We tuesday, tuesday night, ortuesday after our meeting, and
last night nathan come walkingin.
(02:01):
Who?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
nathan's been on the phone.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Sorry, our Monday night meeting was last night and
Nathan come walking in lastnight and he looks fucking
amazing dude.
I can't get over that guy.
Watching his transition isincredible and transformation.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, that transformation is just
incredible, hey and if you don'tgot to see, because we got to
go watch him grapple, Because meand him, he and I Right Came in
in April.
So we're what a month in.
We're like four weeks into thisRight, and I didn't.
I did not compete Him, Jason,why did you not compete?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I was shape.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I wanted to make sure all my ducks in a row.
There you go, bullshit Anyway.
It was bullshit Anyway, butNathan had to go.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Let me ask you he got pushed and, man, it was
beautiful.
Did you happen to watch theclass you would have been in, or
the weights?
I watched every class but didyou watch the one you would have
been in?
Yeah, you should have won.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I wouldn't have broke a sweat.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Were you in Jason's?
Because when I talked to Ericabout it he said Jason shouldn't
have broke a sweat either.
He didn't.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, because it's not fair for me and Jason to compete
against each other.
We wouldn't do that anyway,right.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Would you have been in his same class?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
No, jason's, heavier Jason was in 205s, I would be
168s.
Oh you're way smaller.
Yeah, would you have lost to godown?
Yeah, well, I walk.
I mean, when I wake up in themorning I'm 178 gotcha every day
.
Okay, you know throughout theday of what I eat and drink I
usually right.
I don't get much above 182,right with clothes on right.
Yeah, I'd go down to 68 becauseI don't you can lose that quick
(03:35):
, huh yeah, just water, shit,that is true.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Sweat is true, that is true.
So I also another kind ofupdate.
I talked to remember a whileback we had Rachel Berry on Dr
Berry.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, isn't she a?
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So I reached out to her today because she's been on
my mind a lot right and I'm like, well, I want to get her back
on.
And so I reached out to hertoday just trying to figure out
where she's at.
As far as her my email, or mytext to her was.
It was are you, dr barry yet?
And she goes no, six more weeks.
So she's got six more weeks andI said, okay, when you're
(04:12):
doctor, you're coming on.
She goes deal.
And I said, but this time instudio.
And she says deal.
So that'd be awesome.
I want her in here.
So bad, because there's so muchmore from her podcast and we've
had so much on since then thatI would just love to get, and
now we can actually call her adoctor and it's going to be
awesome, yeah, so I want to gether in here.
(04:32):
So, anyways, I wanted to go overa couple topics rob, we are, we
, we are recording this to,we're going to get into memorial
weekend, and and then then wehave two more guests coming on
in when we record next time.
So this is our last onetogether.
Next time we're going to record, we're going to have a couple
of guests, so right, so, but Iwanted to bring something up
(04:56):
that we talked about last night,a couple of things that we're
going to go over and just try totry to keep your temper to a
minimum, a minimum.
It try to keep your temper to aminimum, a minimum.
It's not.
It's not anger, it's passion.
What did, uh, what did mikecall it he?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
calls it um, um, damn it.
Yeah, it's in the bible.
What does the bible say?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
zealous, zealous, very zealous not a zealot no
with a t zealous so which is fun, because I've said this
multiple times that yeah, youguys do this shit just times?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, do you guys do this shit?
What Do you guys bring thisshit up?
Just to get a rise?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't, I'm going to get a rise out of Rob Well you
know what I always do is I will,every once in a while, I'll
look at Doug and go watch this,watch this.
He was triggered.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Just to see how, but that.
But the Andrew thing was good.
I'm glad he was there.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
No, and that's what I kind of want to go to right,
Because when we got into that afew podcasts back, we talked
about triggers and we went downthat road and we kind of got
into it a little bit with thesame guy that he's talking about
triggers and he's, he went out,he tried to do some
experimenting.
Again he went out trying to seeif he could survive went out
(06:05):
trying to see if he couldsurvive, right and uh, he
realized that the alcohol wastreating him the same way as it
did before.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
He realized there was no trigger.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
He drank because he was alcoholic right and not
spiritually fit right, so hecame in find roy rogers horse
this time go fucking figure sohe came in last night and, uh,
he was there, the top, you know,we were basically reading
through uh into action and Ithink he, he, when we were
talking about the amends, youknow he was, he stopped and one
(06:31):
of the things he said it was hebrought up.
Well, how do you make you know,because he's obviously done this
a couple times and his thingwas well, I've already made my
amends to all the people thatI've, you know these last two
times that I've went out, I Ididn't do anything to anybody,
so do I go back and make thesame amends all over again?
(06:51):
And I think you made a veryvalid point and I was thinking
it and I think, doug, I thinkmultiple, there's multiple,
multiple people in a thing, thesame thing.
And well, motherfucker,obviously you didn't get to the
bottom of the problem, right,you didn't get to the bottom of
the problem right, you didn'tget to the bottom of something,
so how?
free, do you want?
To be right?
And well, I think.
What kind of triggered that wasthis?
We have that word, we have.
(07:12):
No, that's not where I wantedto go.
Um, that's not where I wantedto go.
This is another subject.
But what, um, what, that part,right, there is what?
And I'm we, we stayed on thatfor quite a while, right?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
well, we went to 102 about having an alcoholic mind,
because it brings that up twiceon page uh right, uh 42, I
believe.
And then page 101 talks aboutyou know, you can't shield a man
from drinking.
You can't, you can't move awayfrom it.
It's, it's everywhere.
If a man can't handle certainsituations, he still has an
alcoholic mind.
(07:46):
There's something wrong withhis spiritual status, which is a
fact, and we've seen that.
I mean the beautiful thingabout our little test subjects
in our, our, our Monday nightmeeting.
There's people of different.
You got Scott with 30 plusyears, pat with 30 plus years,
me in the middle, doug with 21s,john with 21.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Right, there's a lot of sobriety in that room.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
But then younger guys too, and look at Gabriel going
out Right and then coming backin.
Okay, Gabe, walk us through it,and it's identical with the
book Same thing, same thing, andhe's disappeared again.
Andrew, walk us through it,it's exactly what.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So it just drives home how accurate, right our
basic text is and it goes backto another thing I've said and
one of the things that'sroughest thing for me to say is
and I may have talked about iton the podcast already and if I
have, I apologize, but it's trueand it's hard- to hear.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
If it's true, don't ever apologize, because they
need to hear.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
No, and I know but some people judge us by some of
the words we say I love to bedressed shit, you know there.
You know there was a gentlemanjust passed away and he hung
himself here a while back andsober living.
Yes, I wasn't going to.
Yes, he was in sober livingwhen it happened and he hung
himself.
And I was talking to one of theguys that knew him very well
(09:01):
and my response was you know,listen, this is going to be very
hard for you to hear, butunderstand this.
Some of us have to die so otherof us may live.
I mean remember being told thatwhen I was fairly new into
sobriety, I'm like, well, that'sa fucked up thing to say I
remember ripping and we'vetalked about this because I
chewed out an old-timer at theoakton meeting.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
His name was uh, well , he's dead now.
Praise night, no, stop it rob,rob it okay, I'm, I'm, I just I
just backed up.
I shouldn't say that right.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Forgive me, lord he's a.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He was a dick.
He was an old, dry dick sorryhe was and he had the same share
.
Every time you're going to hearabout his ex-wife.
The two ex-wives the one thatgot the retirement is to half
his retirement, then the secondex-wife I don't care if the
topic was love.
You're going to hear aboutthese two women.
One got the house, one got halfthe retirement.
That's all you're going to hearfrom Frank, but one time he
(09:49):
said that there was a personwhose friend died or killed
themselves, and he said that tothis newcomer.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Well, some of us got to live Newcomer and that's
bullshit.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
None of us have to die.
No, we don't have to, we chooseto.
Is it going to happen?
Right, it seems to Right, butjust the way he said it, well,
some of us like it's acceptable.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Don't accept that bullshit.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It doesn't have to happen either.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
No, it's not.
It sucks, but I get what you'resaying, but it's some of us.
I, I know this.
We were close.
Yes, sir, I mean when I seesomebody else go out, not even
go out and do any damage, theyjust go out and come right back
in and everything you know.
They're right back where theywere, they didn't lose anything.
(10:35):
But they go out and they comeback in and seeing that broke
look on their face, right itreminds me why I'm not going to
fucking do it.
Do it right.
I don't want to fucking do thatagain.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I don't know if I can make it back again.
Quite honestly, I don't have.
I'm sure I got another drunk inme, but I don't have another,
no, and I say that all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Listen, I walk around with all these fucking tattoos
on me because and I you know whyI do all this it's insurance
for me, because if I fucking doall this, motherfucker, I ain't
gonna go drink again.
Because if I go to drink Igotta look down at this fucking
arm and I gotta go.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
What the fuck really pay some money to get that date
change.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You ain't fucking lying and I ain't doing it right
.
Not today, not today, all right.
It's like we said this morningthat the the bills, what they
ever put.
Dude, what you put, deja vu.
Oh my god, I fucking diedlaughing.
That was fucking, fuckinggroundhog day again for the same
guy byron, I fucking love you,but you don't read our fucking
(11:28):
group text.
Read the motherfucker beforeyou start posting.
God bless it, but put the candown, jeet.
Stop start reading, stop, damnit don't double text damn it.
That was that.
Your response this morning wasfucking hilarious, but anyways,
yeah, we gotta see.
I mean it for me when I see it.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
It just, you know it reminds me, but it doesn't have
to happen.
But it's going to happenbecause you know that's just the
way things are, that's humansare right, yeah and they're like
scouts, right, that's what wecall them, right?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
you know they come back in with everyone stuck in
their ass.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Hey, it still don't work, right.
Alcohol still fucking you up.
I'll stay sober then.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Thank you for that information but they make it
back, right, some of them don't,right?
That's what I, that's what Itold andrew last night.
I go, we're just glad to hearyou're back, you're just glad
you're back.
You're gonna take some shitfrom us, just like poor aaron
does, right?
Yeah, we love that, we love you.
You, prick, stop doing it.
But if we didn't love you wewouldn't even know.
No, no, you know, that's what I, you know, I love fucking aaron
to death.
(12:24):
But, god damn it, dude, fuck,come on, you know, and I, I love
that guy to death andeverything I want, everything I
have I'd give to him to to makesure he doesn't do that again.
But anyways, that that wassomething I wanted to talk about
but again we are.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We have such a big the meeting now, our monday
night group is what?
20 giving?
There was 22 of us there lastnight and that's not even a fold
up.
No, no, but it's such a bigenough testing pool.
I hate to say it that way, butyou don't know a thousand
percent.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
There's a meetings that aren't that big, no, but
the beautiful thing is every,every experience.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We've had the good ones, right, and the bad ones.
I wouldn't say the badexperiences, but the learning
ones.
You know, these guys go backout and they drink when they
were doing everything.
We tell you, we go right to thebook oh, here's where you were,
oh, and then they see it, andit just not only does it drive
home that our basic text is true, but hopefully they glean a
little bit more, they gain alittle bit more trust in these
(13:18):
words hey, you know, and nexttime they're not, they're
watching someone else do itright.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Hey, I've already learned that lesson because I
trust what's in here now anyways, that's a little bit of
something I wanted to talk aboutand cover last night.
Like I said, we we try to dropevery week, so sometimes we just
throw topics in and that'sbasically what we're doing and
the other thing.
So, oh, wait a minute, I wantedto read this.
This is what you were talkingabout.
If you have been successful insolving your own domestic
problems, tell the newcomnewcomers.
(13:44):
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
That's not what.
Uh, no, it's right here.
Uh, assume we are spirituallyfit, we can do all sorts of yep.
We're going right at the bottomof 100, 100, 101.
Yeah, assuming we arespiritually fit, we can do all
sorts of things Alcohol Peoplehave said.
We must not go where liquor isserved.
We must not have in our homes.
(14:05):
We must shun friends who drink.
We must avoid moving pictureswhich show drinking scenes.
We must not go into bars.
Our friends must hide theirbottles if we go to their house.
We must think.
We must mustn't think or bereminded about alcohol at all.
Our experience shows that thisis not necessarily so.
(14:27):
We meet all these conditionsevery day.
An alcoholic who cannot meetthem still has an alcoholic mind
.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Finish the next sentence.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
There is something wrong with his spiritual status.
His only chance has analcoholic mind.
There is something the matterwith his spiritual status.
His only chance of sobrietywould be someplace like the
Greenland ice cap.
Alcoholic mind.
There is something the matterwith his spiritual status.
His only chance of sobrietywould be someplace like the
Greenland ice cap.
And even there in Eskimo mightturn up with a bottle of Scott
and ruin everything.
Right, that's so.
That's where we got into lastnight with with Andrew.
Right, we were talking aboutthat.
(14:59):
It's like cause, that's obvious, right, well.
I mean we, we stay spirituallyright, there's something wrong
with your spiritual status,right, and if you feel like I
mean you don't have, you haven't, but it's good.
Basically, what he was sayinglast night is I haven't had any
contact with anybody.
Yeah, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I know resentment's the number one offender, but I
really had didn't hurt anybody.
Okay then, but you've beenwalking on it because of what
he's been sharing this which wesaw coming right when you
brought the trigger bullshit inthe meeting, right?
That's why the look I had on myface.
And then, what four weeks laterhe was out, not due to what he
said, he was right, not, youknow his little trigger.
He never tripped over that.
(15:35):
He just went and drank, justdrank, left a fucking meeting of
alcoholics, went and got abottle.
Right, there's something wrongwith your spiritual status.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You didn't do something, you didn't clean up
something so that you know whatdoes it say in the steps, if we
let go absolute right,absolutely, the very bottom.
If you let go absoluteabsolutely right, right here.
Uh, at some of these we balkedthat we thought we could find an
easier, softer way, but wecould not.
With all the earnestness, asour command, we beg of you to be
(16:04):
fearless and thorough.
From the very start, some of ushad tried to hold onto our old
ideas and the result was niluntil we let go.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Absolutely Right, 100%, now.
Okay, now would you read aboutthe Greenland ice cap, you know,
um, staying spiritually fit,something wrong with the
spiritual fitness.
What does that?
What page does that take youright back to?
Because now, where did billfirst drive that home?
Page 84, 85, you know, we'retalking about the 10th step,
where it says uh, oh, I'm gonnago back.
I'm gonna start on page 85,where it says this is how we
(16:34):
react so long as we keep in fitspiritual condition.
Oh, shit, shit.
How do we react?
Let's find out.
And we have ceased fightinganything or this is the 10th
step anything or anyone, evenalcohol.
For by this time sanity willever turn.
We will seldom be interested inliquor, promise.
If tempted, we recoil from itas if from a hot flame.
We react sanely and normally,and we will find that this has
(16:57):
happened automatically.
We will see that our newattitude towards liquor has been
given us without any thought oreffort on our part.
It just comes.
We're not fighting it.
This is the miracle of it.
We are not fighting it, neitherare we avoiding temptation.
We feel as though we've beenplaced in a position of
neutrality, safe and protected.
We have not even sworn offLarry.
Instead, the problem has beenremoved by God, it does not
(17:22):
exist for us.
We are neither cocky, prideful,nor are we afraid, fearful.
This is our experience.
This is how we react, so longas we keep in spit the fit
spiritual condition, right.
So if you're spiritually fit,that's how you should react
right.
And if you go above the twochapter, the two paragraphs
above that, what I started willtell you how to to stay on a
daily basis in fit spiritualcondition.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right, it's simple, so I mean so either he didn't
have a sponsor that explainedthat very well to him, or he
didn't let go absolutely, or hedidn't do it thorough and that's
you know with my sponsor theother day, when we were going
through his fifth step.
I was like, okay, is that it?
And we would talk for a littlebit.
The other day, when we weregoing through his fifth step, I
was like, okay, is that it?
And we would talk for a littlebit.
He's like, well, there is thisother thing.
Okay, is that it?
(18:04):
No, there is this other thing.
And then we would talk for alittle while.
Is that, it, is that it now?
We remember then I'd go backand read that we got to let go,
absolute right, this is it.
How free do you want to be?
Yeah, so obviously somebodydidn't read him.
You know, get him through thathe decided he did.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I would assume listening to him yeah, I've done
the steps really well.
He said last night.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
He said last night that he he needs to go back
through him.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
He obviously didn't do him right yeah right, so I
mean clean house I know a goodsponsor his name is rob dude you
need to walk him through.
He's well.
I've got derrick on Mondays andI've got-.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Our audience has no fucking idea who we're talking
about.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Lauren going on Thursdays?
No, but I do, I know, andthey're both kind of right neck
and neck, so I'm getting readyfor a new one.
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, and they're killing it yeah.
I mean I'm about done withBlake so anyways, but see, so no
, anyways, but hey, but see, buthere's, and here's the thing
but I ain't taking another oneunless god drops one of me.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But but again, okay, remember I don't even remember
the cat's name was.
He'd come to our meeting oncehe came in struggling.
Remember his dad I mean, Idon't even remember the guy's
name was.
He was there.
He was at the thursday meeting.
This is maybe three months ago,two months ago, and his dad had
the rooms he needs to get sober.
He lives right in theapartments right by the room.
I don't remember what thatguy's name was.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Remember I know what I need to do.
I need to work these.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
But he left that meeting without a sponsor.
He left our Monday meetingwithout a sponsor.
All right, you know you don'twant help, knows he needs to
work his again.
There's a media, there's Scott.
I mean last night there was 12,13 guys that could take him to
the steps.
Oh, easily Capable.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Very capable, did he ask one of them?
No, no.
So how bad do you want to befree?
How free do you want to be?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And how bad do you want to be free?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Right, everyone wants to be free, but are you willing
to?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
humble yourself and say I need help.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Just not done.
No, get finished.
All right, here we go.
We have no right to save ourown skin to another person
Expense.
Start that again.
I interrupted.
Sorry, it's all right, I shouldhave said the page.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But really emphasize, because listen to the language
Bill uses.
This is the first time he'sgoing to mention this in a short
.
I mean we're talking about in aprobably a six page.
You know he's gonna mention itthree times in three different
ways because he wants to getthis point.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Well, that's why I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I'm opening this up for you Emphasize it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm opening this up for you because you did an
amazing job explaining this lastnight, and this is where it
started.
We have no right to save ourown skin at another person's
expense.
Such parts of our story we tellto someone who will understand,
yet be unaffected, the rule wemust be hard on ourselves but
(20:53):
always consider it of others,right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Now, what does he do?
This is talking about amends,right.
When we go, by the time you getto the ninth step, this is the
first time your sponsor actuallylet you go out into the fucking
world.
Right, and you know andinteract with people.
Right, and some guys areprepared for that and ready to
go because you've prepped them.
Some guys you've got to heyhold on, and a lot of guys when
(21:17):
they get in and you've got toknow your guy's personality.
Oh for sure, when they get intothe fire, what are they going
to do?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
They're going to bring someone else's name
involved, shit like that.
And then what does Bill say onpage if you go to, if it wasn't
again, you've got to cover allthis before you get to go out.
Oh yeah, so Bill finds out onpage 78.
No, I'm sorry, not 78.
It's 79.
Usually this is what Five pagesafter what you read, right?
(21:45):
Usually, however, other peopleare involved.
Oh, we just heard.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Okay go ahead Go ahead, all right.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish
martyr who would needlesslysacrifice others to save himself
from the alcoholic pit.
Oh, then turn the page.
Bill's want to hit you one morefucking time before I let you
go out into the world, becauseyou can do this is why I sparked
you.
Get it.
Before taking drastic actionswhich may implicate another
person, secure their consent.
If we have obtained permission,have consulted with others
asking God to help, and thedrastic step indicated, we must
(22:18):
not shrink, then okay, okay, nowgo.
Because, right, we I've seen,I've seen and I've heard, but
I've seen personally, which Ishared that one story last night
.
People do so much damage rightby going out and not being not
being prepared for the nightstep, and it's so simple.
That's why we don't say we'resorry, right, xyz, behavior was
(22:38):
wrong, please forgive me.
What can I do to make it right?
And whether or not they forgiveyou has got.
No, you're there to clean offyour side of the street the best
you can.
That's all you need to say.
Right, then you just take whatthey've got, but well, well,
so-and-so did this and you'vegot to prepare them for that,
because they can do.
I've seen marriages getdestroyed by a bad, by a faulty
(23:01):
night step, Tell that story.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Tell that story I mean there's no names involved,
because it's true.
I mean, listen, this subjectcame up right.
This subject came up because-.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was asked to give an example because I've
sponsored a lot of men.
Here's the example.
Thank, you.
Go through the step.
Uh, we'll just find that placein the book where it says you
know if sex is involved.
It says you know if there wasuh, if there was a fair, do you
do if the wife doesn't knowabout?
The big book says do you tellher?
not necessarily so, and it talksabout certain talking about
infidelity but this is, you know, the big book says not
(23:33):
necessarily we don't, we don'tbring it up if she knows, in a
way that you've been wild ineach situation, but the big big
book's pretty specific on it.
But this is what happened Agentleman had an affair on his
wife.
Right, it was a one-time deal,he didn't bring no diseases home
, nothing like that.
She didn't know about it.
He got sober.
We worked through the steps andI told him what the big book
(23:54):
was about.
We went through the book andwhat the book is clear on, that
good, we went through the bookand what the book is clear on,
that Good he was about.
And then, but they, and he goeswell, rob, you know, because and
I cause I have men who theyhave things like there there's,
there's some things that I can't, I never could get to.
My my parents are dead.
There are certain things thatsome of us have to walk with
(24:16):
right, have to walk with Right.
You know, and God will give youthe strength to walk with it.
Don't fucking repeat thebehavior.
Right, god will give you thestrength, but you have no right
to hurt another human being.
You know, to get the monkey offyour back To save your soul.
Yeah, so the guilt and theshame was eating this guy alive?
Yeah, because he, and so hewent After eight months.
(24:36):
He was eight months sober yeah,he was eight months sober.
Did right, right, but he made adecision based on guilt, fear
and shame and remorse, not ontruth.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Right, not on faith.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Okay, that's what he did.
He was just because his painwas so much he had to give it to
her.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
To give her the pain.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
So she tried, he did.
Basically that's what he didI'm gonna pour this on you.
I'm gonna pour this poisonthat's in me on you yeah because
because he didn't, he didn'tbelieve this and he didn't trust
in god to let, because they Iknow men that are walking with
some shit that this, then thatmakes this look like nothing
right, and god gives them andthey are amazing men of god
today.
So ever so.
(25:17):
About six later.
So he makes it a year and thewife.
They try to work it out, butshe eventually just can't.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
She can't get past it .
No, can't get past it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
They get divorced.
He had two beautiful littlegirls.
Still does.
I don't know if he might bedrunk now.
Still is.
I'm sure he is.
I don't know he is.
I hope he's sober.
I don't think he is.
Pray for him Doesn't matter.
So after the divorce andthey're working out, you know,
and I'm still, he's still.
He was still sober at the timebut he made it by, I think, like
a year and three months.
The wife said this.
I wish you hadn't told me.
I mean in a lot stronger words.
(25:47):
She says we were happy, right,you were sober.
You know it happened.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
He would eventually went and got drunk.
You didn't, but you no.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
What I just tell you.
With that guilt?
No, if you would have worked itthe way you're supposed to work
it, no, no, no.
Him carrying that guilt, don'tcarry it.
It's not yours to carry, no buthe was carrying it Right, but
that's my point.
And he made a decision based onguilt, fear, shame, remorse.
If he had kept holding that on.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Well, it's fine Today .
More than that, a lot more thanthat you don't need to say
detail, but God gives them thestrength to do that Because
number one the behavior cannotrepeat Right.
I've talked to guys that ifthey said it out loud to some
people they'd be in jail for awhile.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
Yeah, and I would never saythis story, but the wife's reply
was saying something Right, Iwish you hadn't told me we were
happy, because when I said theseare her words, honey you didn't
bring any diseases home to me.
You know gratefully I didn'tknow.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
I wish you wouldn't have toldme.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Everything was good.
Everything was good.
He just couldn't get throughhis own shit.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
He just couldn't let it be good, Right, he let the
pain and the guilt wear up inhim.
Okay, I'm going to pour thisshit on you.
That's where Bill writes wedon't have the fucking right.
Don't go to your mom, man.
Mom, I really want you to.
There's some things that evenif my parents were alive, I
would not tell them.
They don't need to hear it.
I'll walk with that.
They don't need to know that.
I'm not going to get the monkeyoff my and have that working in
(27:16):
my mother's head.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Right, won't do it no .
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'll walk with it and my Lord will give me the
strength.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Right, that's what I'm talking about.
I get it.
I completely get it.
Yeah, I think on my side, justin the thought process, because
I thank God I never had to dealwith that.
No, hey, thank.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
God, thank God.
Right, but there are men thatdeal with that, and then they
deal with it well right right soyou just hope and pray that you
know that I would have right.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
God forbid that.
I mean I I think that's mybiggest hang up on that is I
know what my guilt would bedoing to me, but I also know how
hard I worked to get rid ofthat stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
How's your, how's your guilt from the way you
lived your life before, I meaneven?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
oh, it's gone.
It's gone.
Why wouldn't the other one?
It's so.
Why wouldn't God remove theother one?
I mean, you hurt your wiferight.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Did you hurt your?
You didn't hurt your wife.
I did I hurt my wife too.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Okay, I think there's levels of hurt.
There may be, but it depends.
But I mean, that's a wholedifferent level of hurt.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Maybe Right, you I?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
mean, I'm not defending what he did or didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Or didn't?
He made a choice and his choicehad consequences.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Right, right and it's just.
I think what I look at is likeI can't judge.
You know, we've had a guy,we've had guys come in.
I'll still not forget this.
We went up to Knights.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Ferry Diane's reply.
Sorry, we went up there and itwas's ferry.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
We went up there and we um and it was a couple of
days before, like a few weeksbefore Christmas hey, this old
chap, come in After you get done.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I want to.
I want to follow up onsomething I'm going Well, go,
okay, cause you'll forget, youold fucker.
You're probably right.
I've also seen this work inreverse.
That's the story I just gaveyou, because right now, any
woman listen to this podcast.
Oh, he was right to tell her.
He's right.
I've also had not me, this isnot me.
This is a friend of mine.
Female had the same thing, butthe reverse.
(29:08):
The wife had had an affair.
She actually had two affairsgoing on at the same time.
However, she ended him, she gotsober, didn't bring nothing
home to the husband and again,things were going great, things
were going fantastic, but she,right, and the husband more or
less said the same kind of thing.
So so did I, because I, I can,I can hear people.
(29:32):
Well, you see what he, he, she,he was right to do that now.
Now it's reverse females.
I've seen women do the samething I don don't know, Should
she Again?
and each situation's different.
I just showed him what was inthe book, showed him what other
men have done and shared withhim, what some other men no
names, but what they're walkingwith, and he's like, oh damn,
(29:53):
exactly.
So give it some time, let'spray about it.
If God's clear, god will beclear, right, but not all the
time do we become the martyr?
Right, look at me.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Right, because you, which you just did, yeah, what
he did was and you're, andyou're a thousand percent right
he made himself feel better atthe pain of somebody that's
expensive, someone right, andthat's that's not if your
motives.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
If your motives are, because motives are everything
with god and this motives areeverything why are you doing
what you're doing?
Is it to ease your comfort?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's all it was.
Is it to ease?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
your conscience.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Is it the right thing to do then?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Are you doing it for truth?
Are you doing it for what'sright?
I mean, there are circumstanceswhere, yeah, hey, the utmost
frankness is absolutely ready tohappen, and there are times
when it's not.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Right, right Right.
And that's what it talks about,number nine.
Right, what I was getting at is, you know, I I think about
stuff like this.
Like Mike and Kim went through,you know, and Jason and Jason
went through, you know, I waslistening to him.
We, like I said, we went intoKnights Ferry and it was a
little bit before Christmas, Ithink, and it was probably like
(31:05):
a week before Christmas, and I'mthinking to myself, god bless
you, how the fuck would I handlethat?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Exactly the way he did.
Where should he be?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I pray, I pray that Into the rooms around his men,
and I get it.
But I'm also saying the samething is I don't know how I'd
have reacted if I'd have had.
You know, once again, we don'tknow how we're going to react
until we're put into thatsituation.
So I can't judge somebody.
I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's right, right.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I and this is why because I know you well enough,
rob, that you we're not judgingthat guy and what he did, no,
what we feel his actions werewrong, but we didn't have to
live in his shoes and we don'tknow what he would have done
with that guilt.
Hey, guilt kills people.
Yes, guilt makes people hangthemselves and drink them right
to death.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So guilt is a horrible fucking thing to live
with.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Remorse all how you deal with it correct is is of
the utmost importance.
Right, don't do any more damagethan needed to somebody else.
Yeah, right, and that, I think,is the biggest key coming out.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I'm not saying every situation is cookie cutter,
because it isn't for sure but Ibelieve his was, I believe, I
believe he handled it poorlybecause his motives are wrong
right and I don't.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I don't, once again not disagreeing with you.
I don't know how I would have,I know how my guilt gets me.
Even if I, even if I shrink oneof my wife's shirts in the
dryer because I wasn't supposedto dry it and I fold it and hide
it, that would guilt me till Ifucking had to pull it out.
See, I fucking shrinked yourshirt, you know I just I can't,
(32:38):
I wouldn't even.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I just show it, right ?
Hey, babe, look what I just did.
I know I better find it.
Did you just?
Yeah, I did it, I did it.
My guilt is fucking.
I won't even feel it.
I ain't got to feel no guilt.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
No, I probably would have done, that's probably would
, but it ain't fucking anotherguy's wife or you know fucking
around, it's just not that.
I mean there's levels of that,there's levels, so I don't know
how that I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
My wife thinks pornography, if I, if I was to
watch pornography, that that'scheating.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I don't disagree with her, don't disagree with, I do,
I don't watch it, but you know,but still, hey, okay, I do, uh,
midget porn, just kidding,that's comedy, just kidding.
Hey, that's comedy, justkidding.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's not, that's funny, there's no point, but we
need to talk about that becausea lot of the men I sponsored a
lot of them.
You're not one of them, but alsostruggle with that oh for sure,
and that's something when I gothrough this you know when I
especially after they get sober,when I go through the sex
inventory, because that's one ofthe things I bring up hey, how
are you with pornography, right?
Is that?
Well, shit robin, I'm kind ofnot.
(33:40):
I'm working on, okay, thenthat's something.
Then right, then we right, it'sa great time just to just for
anybody, turn the steps andlet's start working a little bit
of that, right, because that'spoison.
There's more stuff out therethat's poison.
Absolutely, that's as muchpoison as whiskey or drugs.
Yeah, It'll destroy marriages.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
It'll destroy marriages.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It'll destroy lives.
It's terrible yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Absolutely, there's my we see.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I've seen my public broadcast, but I've seen guys
destroy their lives.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I mean, yes, I've watched it, even when I was
still drinking.
I've just like did you cheat onhim?
No, what.
What happened?
I couldn't stop looking at porn.
What the fuck?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
is wrong with you I mean, it's a, it's a, it's an
addiction.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It's crazy, I mean I'm sitting here drinking my
probably 100th beard and judginghim for looking at porn.
The addiction's the same.
Yeah, there's difference.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
It's just as destructive so is my alcohol and
God's just as big Right.
So tie him in if you can.
That's just something to thinkabout next time you sponsor
someone.
Right, ask him Right.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Recovering on Filter Podcast at gmailcom.
Rob anything else, Not that Ican make it you done yelling at
me?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
No, I didn't yell.
Did I get in?
No, no.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I love getting you riled up, but I do.
I still want to do a wholeseries of podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Would I jump from page to page Just?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
when you go the way you flip from like Bill.
You got such a grasp on howBill writes and you remember
that book so well.
I want to do a whole series ofa podcast where we just
literally dig into that kind ofstuff and just have you record
it, because I think it's.
I think it's very valuable andI love when you do it.
(35:18):
It's hard to keep up with you,but if it's recorded people can
go back and forth.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Well, like the meetings, because we're going,
it's just spontaneous because itis it's hard to say.
Well, because in my, my mother'scare, I'm just having me on
page 77 here which, if you wantto know for everybody, on the
top of page 77 tells you whatyour purpose is and it's not
just me and I'll tell you whatit is.
It says our real purpose, notour fake one.
Our real purpose is to talk tothe alcoholics and this is the
(35:43):
way we're supposed to live.
Our real purpose is to fitourselves, to be of maximum
service to God and the peopleabout us.
It's got nothing to do with us.
All right, and if you want togo to page 102.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Here we go See, this is what I love.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
We'll go to page 102, because Bill wants to drive
something home to you, so hespreads it out just enough.
And again, some of you want tosay it's inspired.
I don't know what you want tosay, but what does it say on
page 102?
Your job you know that this isat the bottom third.
Or says your job now, right,your job now is to be at the
place where you may be.
Of mac, there's a word here'show you know he's got the same
(36:17):
thought maximum, right.
He doesn't say services hashelpfulness, but maximum is
there.
So you know he's touching.
He's touching back on right,yeah, of maximum healthiness to
others.
So never hesitate to goanywhere.
If you can be helpful, youshould not hesitate to visit the
most sordid spot on earth.
Listen to that.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
On such an errand.
Keep on the fiery line of lifewith these motives and God will
keep you unharmed.
That's a fucking promise, right, that's a promise better than
anything in the night, stepRight.
Listen to that.
Go to to any sort of spot withyour motive, correct right of
help and service that's withanything remorse help and
service and god will keep you inharm.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
That's a promise.
Love it see.
That's where I would love to dolike a whole series of you
grabbing, just like you'realready digging at something
else well, because every page,every margin has a number a page
number so you can go back andsee how these things tie in,
because it's important.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
When Bill repeats something, or anybody, when the
Bible repeats it, it's foreffect, because and it's not
just willy nilly it's because wehave seen people.
I have seen people.
I know people have destroyedmarriages, destroyed their lives
, doing things for the wrongreasons not necessarily the
wrong thing, but you did it withthe wrong motive right the
(37:33):
motive which is makes what makesit wrong right, absolutely so,
and destroy things when youcould be living a happy, joyous
life right now, you fuckingpussy there you go sorry, that's
you cut that out.
That's wrong, but that's againjust you're good because I know,
I mean I'm so grateful to Godbecause I know guys walking with
, walking with stuff, you know,and man, and they are the most
(37:55):
used of.
God but not that they're themost used men of God, that I
know.
He who loves much has beenforgiven much right.
He who loves little has beenforgiven little Right.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
So trust me, atta boy , yeah, I love you, so keep you
know, stay on the firing linesand God will keep you unharmed
and don't ever make a decisionbased on fear, guilt, shame,
remorse, If it's not truth, ifit's not fact walk with it.
Right, there you go.
Recovery on filter podcast atgmailcom.
That's recoveryonfilterpodcastsat gmailcom.
(38:28):
We'll come back in a week Ifyou're lucky.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you If you
did not come back next week, andwe'll try again.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Thanks, rob.
Come back next week andhopefully something will be
different and something willsink in.
Take care, this has beenRecovery Unfiltered.
Thank you.
Ready to go to work?
Yeah, go ahead, lay it down,kid, you sit on the toilet,
don't you Use that as yourmeditation?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Not my wife, not your wife, nor anybody listening to
this podcast has eaten a shitsandwich we didn't have a hand
in making.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to Recovery Unfiltered.
I'm Larry.
I'm an alcoholic.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I am Rob.
I am also an alcoholic.
We are not professionals.
There are no letters after ournames.
We know very little.
However, you will hear the word.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
God and a four letter word in the same sentence, you
will also be offended.
So if you are easily offended,just pass us by.
This podcast is not for you.
Our opinions are just that.
If you don't agree with whatwe're saying, that's okay.
We're going to love you anyways.
We are not in any wayaffiliated with AA.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
So sit back, grab a beverage of your choice and get
ready.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Let's go, Hello Robert.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hey, what happened happened I just.
We just got back from webster's, uh, and the shit sandwich came
up webster's dictionary.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, that's about what I had, the restaurant, it's
not bad.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's not as good as you remember, did it create a
shit sandwich.
It's gonna.
It's gonna create something.
Just hold on, we might take abreak.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
That's funny, but I don't eat a lot of that, though.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The closest thing to fast food that I know in and out
is fast food.
I get that, but I don't it'snot fast food.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I don't classify it as that.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's the only I don't mean I haven't had
anything since before cancer.
I haven't had no mcdonald's, orso we're talking like five in
and out I'll eat that that's notfast food.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Exactly that is the best freaking hamburger you can
get in, a quick and in thecheapest.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Oh, yeah, I love, we love it.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
You know how you could.
I always use them from ananalogy.
You know why.
You know why in and out burgeris successful and are cheap?
Cause they do one fucking thing, and they do it to perfection.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, well, their menu is small perfection.
They just have a very limitedmenu, and this is what we do.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
That's the you may, that's, then you do it to
perfection, yeah, so, yeah,that's, uh, uh.
So we're recording on a monday,actually we're recording on a
tuesday our schedule that arekind of whacked out because the
memorial, uh, we are.
We tuesday, tuesday night, ortuesday after our meeting, and
last night nathan come walkingin.
(02:01):
Who?
Speaker 2 (02:01):
nathan's been on the phone.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Sorry, our Monday night meeting was last night and
Nathan come walking in lastnight and he looks fucking
amazing dude.
I can't get over that guy.
Watching his transition isincredible and transformation.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, that transformation is just
incredible, hey and if you don'tgot to see, because we got to
go watch him grapple, Because meand him, he and I Right Came in
in April.
So we're what a month in.
We're like four weeks into thisRight, and I didn't.
I did not compete Him, Jason,why did you not compete?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
I was shape.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I wanted to make sure all my ducks in a row.
There you go, bullshit Anyway.
It was bullshit Anyway, butNathan had to go.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Let me ask you he got pushed and, man, it was
beautiful.
Did you happen to watch theclass you would have been in, or
the weights?
I watched every class but didyou watch the one you would have
been in?
Yeah, you should have won.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I wouldn't have broke a sweat.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Were you in Jason's?
Because when I talked to Ericabout it he said Jason shouldn't
have broke a sweat either.
He didn't.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
No, because it's not fair for me and Jason to compete
against each other.
We wouldn't do that anyway,right.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Would you have been in his same class?
Speaker 2 (03:13):
No, jason's, heavier Jason was in 205s, I would be
168s.
Oh you're way smaller.
Yeah, would you have lost to godown?
Yeah, well, I walk.
I mean, when I wake up in themorning I'm 178 gotcha every day
.
Okay, you know throughout theday of what I eat and drink I
usually right.
I don't get much above 182,right with clothes on right.
Yeah, I'd go down to 68 becauseI don't you can lose that quick
(03:35):
, huh yeah, just water, shit,that is true.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Sweat is true, that is true.
So I also another kind ofupdate.
I talked to remember a whileback we had Rachel Berry on Dr
Berry.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, isn't she a?
Not yet.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So I reached out to her today because she's been on
my mind a lot right and I'm like, well, I want to get her back
on.
And so I reached out to hertoday just trying to figure out
where she's at.
As far as her my email, or mytext to her was.
It was are you, dr barry yet?
And she goes no, six more weeks.
So she's got six more weeks andI said, okay, when you're
(04:12):
doctor, you're coming on.
She goes deal.
And I said, but this time instudio.
And she says deal.
So that'd be awesome.
I want her in here.
So bad, because there's so muchmore from her podcast and we've
had so much on since then thatI would just love to get, and
now we can actually call her adoctor and it's going to be
awesome, yeah, so I want to gether in here.
(04:32):
So, anyways, I wanted to go overa couple topics rob, we are, we
, we are recording this to,we're going to get into memorial
weekend, and and then then wehave two more guests coming on
in when we record next time.
So this is our last onetogether.
Next time we're going to record, we're going to have a couple
of guests, so right, so, but Iwanted to bring something up
(04:56):
that we talked about last night,a couple of things that we're
going to go over and just try totry to keep your temper to a
minimum, a minimum.
It try to keep your temper to aminimum, a minimum.
It's not.
It's not anger, it's passion.
What did, uh, what did mikecall it he?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
calls it um, um, damn it.
Yeah, it's in the bible.
What does the bible say?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
zealous, zealous, very zealous not a zealot no
with a t zealous so which is fun, because I've said this
multiple times that yeah, youguys do this shit just times?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yeah, do you guys do this shit?
What Do you guys bring thisshit up?
Just to get a rise?
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I don't, I'm going to get a rise out of Rob Well you
know what I always do is I will,every once in a while, I'll
look at Doug and go watch this,watch this.
He was triggered.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Just to see how, but that.
But the Andrew thing was good.
I'm glad he was there.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
No, and that's what I kind of want to go to right,
Because when we got into that afew podcasts back, we talked
about triggers and we went downthat road and we kind of got
into it a little bit with thesame guy that he's talking about
triggers and he's, he went out,he tried to do some
experimenting.
Again he went out trying to seeif he could survive went out
(06:05):
trying to see if he couldsurvive, right and uh, he
realized that the alcohol wastreating him the same way as it
did before.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
He realized there was no trigger.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
He drank because he was alcoholic right and not
spiritually fit right, so hecame in find roy rogers horse
this time go fucking figure sohe came in last night and, uh,
he was there, the top, you know,we were basically reading
through uh into action and Ithink he, he, when we were
talking about the amends, youknow he was, he stopped and one
(06:31):
of the things he said it was hebrought up.
Well, how do you make you know,because he's obviously done this
a couple times and his thingwas well, I've already made my
amends to all the people thatI've, you know these last two
times that I've went out, I Ididn't do anything to anybody,
so do I go back and make thesame amends all over again?
(06:51):
And I think you made a veryvalid point and I was thinking
it and I think, doug, I thinkmultiple, there's multiple,
multiple people in a thing, thesame thing.
And well, motherfucker,obviously you didn't get to the
bottom of the problem, right,you didn't get to the bottom of
the problem right, you didn'tget to the bottom of something,
so how?
free, do you want?
To be right?
And well, I think.
What kind of triggered that wasthis?
We have that word, we have.
(07:12):
No, that's not where I wantedto go.
Um, that's not where I wantedto go.
This is another subject.
But what, um, what, that part,right, there is what?
And I'm we, we stayed on thatfor quite a while, right?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
well, we went to 102 about having an alcoholic mind,
because it brings that up twiceon page uh right, uh 42, I
believe.
And then page 101 talks aboutyou know, you can't shield a man
from drinking.
You can't, you can't move awayfrom it.
It's, it's everywhere.
If a man can't handle certainsituations, he still has an
alcoholic mind.
(07:46):
There's something wrong withhis spiritual status, which is a
fact, and we've seen that.
I mean the beautiful thingabout our little test subjects
in our, our, our Monday nightmeeting.
There's people of different.
You got Scott with 30 plusyears, pat with 30 plus years,
me in the middle, doug with 21s,john with 21.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Right, there's a lot of sobriety in that room.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
But then younger guys too, and look at Gabriel going
out Right and then coming backin.
Okay, Gabe, walk us through it,and it's identical with the
book Same thing, same thing, andhe's disappeared again.
Andrew, walk us through it,it's exactly what.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So it just drives home how accurate, right our
basic text is and it goes backto another thing I've said and
one of the things that'sroughest thing for me to say is
and I may have talked about iton the podcast already and if I
have, I apologize, but it's trueand it's hard- to hear.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
If it's true, don't ever apologize, because they
need to hear.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
No, and I know but some people judge us by some of
the words we say I love to bedressed shit, you know there.
You know there was a gentlemanjust passed away and he hung
himself here a while back andsober living.
Yes, I wasn't going to.
Yes, he was in sober livingwhen it happened and he hung
himself.
And I was talking to one of theguys that knew him very well
(09:01):
and my response was you know,listen, this is going to be very
hard for you to hear, butunderstand this.
Some of us have to die so otherof us may live.
I mean remember being told thatwhen I was fairly new into
sobriety, I'm like, well, that'sa fucked up thing to say I
remember ripping and we'vetalked about this because I
chewed out an old-timer at theoakton meeting.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
His name was uh, well , he's dead now.
Praise night, no, stop it rob,rob it okay, I'm, I'm, I just I
just backed up.
I shouldn't say that right.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Forgive me, lord he's a.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
He was a dick.
He was an old, dry dick sorryhe was and he had the same share
.
Every time you're going to hearabout his ex-wife.
The two ex-wives the one thatgot the retirement is to half
his retirement, then the secondex-wife I don't care if the
topic was love.
You're going to hear aboutthese two women.
One got the house, one got halfthe retirement.
That's all you're going to hearfrom Frank, but one time he
(09:49):
said that there was a personwhose friend died or killed
themselves, and he said that tothis newcomer.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Well, some of us got to live Newcomer and that's
bullshit.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
None of us have to die.
No, we don't have to, we chooseto.
Is it going to happen?
Right, it seems to Right, butjust the way he said it, well,
some of us like it's acceptable.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Don't accept that bullshit.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
It doesn't have to happen either.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
No, it's not.
It sucks, but I get what you'resaying, but it's some of us.
I, I know this.
We were close.
Yes, sir, I mean when I seesomebody else go out, not even
go out and do any damage, theyjust go out and come right back
in and everything you know.
They're right back where theywere, they didn't lose anything.
(10:35):
But they go out and they comeback in and seeing that broke
look on their face, right itreminds me why I'm not going to
fucking do it.
Do it right.
I don't want to fucking do thatagain.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I don't know if I can make it back again.
Quite honestly, I don't have.
I'm sure I got another drunk inme, but I don't have another,
no, and I say that all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Listen, I walk around with all these fucking tattoos
on me because and I you know whyI do all this it's insurance
for me, because if I fucking doall this, motherfucker, I ain't
gonna go drink again.
Because if I go to drink Igotta look down at this fucking
arm and I gotta go.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
What the fuck really pay some money to get that date
change.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You ain't fucking lying and I ain't doing it right
.
Not today, not today, all right.
It's like we said this morningthat the the bills, what they
ever put.
Dude, what you put, deja vu.
Oh my god, I fucking diedlaughing.
That was fucking, fuckinggroundhog day again for the same
guy byron, I fucking love you,but you don't read our fucking
(11:28):
group text.
Read the motherfucker beforeyou start posting.
God bless it, but put the candown, jeet.
Stop start reading, stop, damnit don't double text damn it.
That was that.
Your response this morning wasfucking hilarious, but anyways,
yeah, we gotta see.
I mean it for me when I see it.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
It just, you know it reminds me, but it doesn't have
to happen.
But it's going to happenbecause you know that's just the
way things are, that's humansare right, yeah and they're like
scouts, right, that's what wecall them, right?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
you know they come back in with everyone stuck in
their ass.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Hey, it still don't work, right.
Alcohol still fucking you up.
I'll stay sober then.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Thank you for that information but they make it
back, right, some of them don't,right?
That's what I, that's what Itold andrew last night.
I go, we're just glad to hearyou're back, you're just glad
you're back.
You're gonna take some shitfrom us, just like poor aaron
does, right?
Yeah, we love that, we love you.
You, prick, stop doing it.
But if we didn't love you wewouldn't even know.
No, no, you know, that's what I, you know, I love fucking aaron
to death.
(12:24):
But, god damn it, dude, fuck,come on, you know, and I, I love
that guy to death andeverything I want, everything I
have I'd give to him to to makesure he doesn't do that again.
But anyways, that that wassomething I wanted to talk about
but again we are.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
We have such a big the meeting now, our monday
night group is what?
20 giving?
There was 22 of us there lastnight and that's not even a fold
up.
No, no, but it's such a bigenough testing pool.
I hate to say it that way, butyou don't know a thousand
percent.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
There's a meetings that aren't that big, no, but
the beautiful thing is every,every experience.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
We've had the good ones, right, and the bad ones.
I wouldn't say the badexperiences, but the learning
ones.
You know, these guys go backout and they drink when they
were doing everything.
We tell you, we go right to thebook oh, here's where you were,
oh, and then they see it, andit just not only does it drive
home that our basic text is true, but hopefully they glean a
little bit more, they gain alittle bit more trust in these
(13:18):
words hey, you know, and nexttime they're not, they're
watching someone else do itright.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Hey, I've already learned that lesson because I
trust what's in here now anyways, that's a little bit of
something I wanted to talk aboutand cover last night.
Like I said, we we try to dropevery week, so sometimes we just
throw topics in and that'sbasically what we're doing and
the other thing.
So, oh, wait a minute, I wantedto read this.
This is what you were talkingabout.
If you have been successful insolving your own domestic
problems, tell the newcomnewcomers.
(13:44):
Blah, blah, blah, blah.
That's not what.
Uh, no, it's right here.
Uh, assume we are spirituallyfit, we can do all sorts of yep.
We're going right at the bottomof 100, 100, 101.
Yeah, assuming we arespiritually fit, we can do all
sorts of things Alcohol Peoplehave said.
We must not go where liquor isserved.
We must not have in our homes.
(14:05):
We must shun friends who drink.
We must avoid moving pictureswhich show drinking scenes.
We must not go into bars.
Our friends must hide theirbottles if we go to their house.
We must think.
We must mustn't think or bereminded about alcohol at all.
Our experience shows that thisis not necessarily so.
(14:27):
We meet all these conditionsevery day.
An alcoholic who cannot meetthem still has an alcoholic mind
.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Finish the next sentence.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
There is something wrong with his spiritual status.
His only chance has analcoholic mind.
There is something the matterwith his spiritual status.
His only chance of sobrietywould be someplace like the
Greenland ice cap.
Alcoholic mind.
There is something the matterwith his spiritual status.
His only chance of sobrietywould be someplace like the
Greenland ice cap.
And even there in Eskimo mightturn up with a bottle of Scott
and ruin everything.
Right, that's so.
That's where we got into lastnight with with Andrew.
Right, we were talking aboutthat.
(14:59):
It's like cause, that's obvious, right, well.
I mean we, we stay spirituallyright, there's something wrong
with your spiritual status,right, and if you feel like I
mean you don't have, you haven't, but it's good.
Basically, what he was sayinglast night is I haven't had any
contact with anybody.
Yeah, I haven't.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I know resentment's the number one offender, but I
really had didn't hurt anybody.
Okay then, but you've beenwalking on it because of what
he's been sharing this which wesaw coming right when you
brought the trigger bullshit inthe meeting, right?
That's why the look I had on myface.
And then, what four weeks laterhe was out, not due to what he
said, he was right, not, youknow his little trigger.
He never tripped over that.
(15:35):
He just went and drank, justdrank, left a fucking meeting of
alcoholics, went and got abottle.
Right, there's something wrongwith your spiritual status.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
You didn't do something, you didn't clean up
something so that you know whatdoes it say in the steps, if we
let go absolute right,absolutely, the very bottom.
If you let go absoluteabsolutely right, right here.
Uh, at some of these we balkedthat we thought we could find an
easier, softer way, but wecould not.
With all the earnestness, asour command, we beg of you to be
(16:04):
fearless and thorough.
From the very start, some of ushad tried to hold onto our old
ideas and the result was niluntil we let go.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Absolutely Right, 100%, now.
Okay, now would you read aboutthe Greenland ice cap, you know,
um, staying spiritually fit,something wrong with the
spiritual fitness.
What does that?
What page does that take youright back to?
Because now, where did billfirst drive that home?
Page 84, 85, you know, we'retalking about the 10th step,
where it says uh, oh, I'm gonnago back.
I'm gonna start on page 85,where it says this is how we
(16:34):
react so long as we keep in fitspiritual condition.
Oh, shit, shit.
How do we react?
Let's find out.
And we have ceased fightinganything or this is the 10th
step anything or anyone, evenalcohol.
For by this time sanity willever turn.
We will seldom be interested inliquor, promise.
If tempted, we recoil from itas if from a hot flame.
We react sanely and normally,and we will find that this has
(16:57):
happened automatically.
We will see that our newattitude towards liquor has been
given us without any thought oreffort on our part.
It just comes.
We're not fighting it.
This is the miracle of it.
We are not fighting it, neitherare we avoiding temptation.
We feel as though we've beenplaced in a position of
neutrality, safe and protected.
We have not even sworn offLarry.
Instead, the problem has beenremoved by God, it does not
(17:22):
exist for us.
We are neither cocky, prideful,nor are we afraid, fearful.
This is our experience.
This is how we react, so longas we keep in spit the fit
spiritual condition, right.
So if you're spiritually fit,that's how you should react
right.
And if you go above the twochapter, the two paragraphs
above that, what I started willtell you how to to stay on a
daily basis in fit spiritualcondition.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Right, it's simple, so I mean so either he didn't
have a sponsor that explainedthat very well to him, or he
didn't let go absolutely, or hedidn't do it thorough and that's
you know with my sponsor theother day, when we were going
through his fifth step.
I was like, okay, is that it?
And we would talk for a littlebit.
The other day, when we weregoing through his fifth step, I
was like, okay, is that it?
And we would talk for a littlebit.
He's like, well, there is thisother thing.
Okay, is that it?
(18:04):
No, there is this other thing.
And then we would talk for alittle while.
Is that, it, is that it now?
We remember then I'd go backand read that we got to let go,
absolute right, this is it.
How free do you want to be?
Yeah, so obviously somebodydidn't read him.
You know, get him through thathe decided he did.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I would assume listening to him yeah, I've done
the steps really well.
He said last night.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
He said last night that he he needs to go back
through him.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
He obviously didn't do him right yeah right, so I
mean clean house I know a goodsponsor his name is rob dude you
need to walk him through.
He's well.
I've got derrick on Mondays andI've got-.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Our audience has no fucking idea who we're talking
about.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Lauren going on Thursdays?
No, but I do, I know, andthey're both kind of right neck
and neck, so I'm getting readyfor a new one.
I'm ready.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, and they're killing it yeah.
I mean I'm about done withBlake so anyways, but see, so no
, anyways, but hey, but see, buthere's, and here's the thing
but I ain't taking another oneunless god drops one of me.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
But but again, okay, remember I don't even remember
the cat's name was.
He'd come to our meeting oncehe came in struggling.
Remember his dad I mean, Idon't even remember the guy's
name was.
He was there.
He was at the thursday meeting.
This is maybe three months ago,two months ago, and his dad had
the rooms he needs to get sober.
He lives right in theapartments right by the room.
I don't remember what thatguy's name was.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I don't either.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Remember I know what I need to do.
I need to work these.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I know.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
But he left that meeting without a sponsor.
He left our Monday meetingwithout a sponsor.
All right, you know you don'twant help, knows he needs to
work his again.
There's a media, there's Scott.
I mean last night there was 12,13 guys that could take him to
the steps.
Oh, easily Capable.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Very capable, did he ask one of them?
No, no.
So how bad do you want to befree?
How free do you want to be?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And how bad do you want to be free?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Right, everyone wants to be free, but are you willing
to?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
humble yourself and say I need help.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Just not done.
No, get finished.
All right, here we go.
We have no right to save ourown skin to another person
Expense.
Start that again.
I interrupted.
Sorry, it's all right, I shouldhave said the page.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
But really emphasize, because listen to the language
Bill uses.
This is the first time he'sgoing to mention this in a short
.
I mean we're talking about in aprobably a six page.
You know he's gonna mention itthree times in three different
ways because he wants to getthis point.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Well, that's why I'm trying to.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
I'm opening this up for you Emphasize it.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
I'm opening this up for you because you did an
amazing job explaining this lastnight, and this is where it
started.
We have no right to save ourown skin at another person's
expense.
Such parts of our story we tellto someone who will understand,
yet be unaffected, the rule wemust be hard on ourselves but
(20:53):
always consider it of others,right.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Now, what does he do?
This is talking about amends,right.
When we go, by the time you getto the ninth step, this is the
first time your sponsor actuallylet you go out into the fucking
world.
Right, and you know andinteract with people.
Right, and some guys areprepared for that and ready to
go because you've prepped them.
Some guys you've got to heyhold on, and a lot of guys when
(21:17):
they get in and you've got toknow your guy's personality.
Oh for sure, when they get intothe fire, what are they going
to do?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
They're going to bring someone else's name
involved, shit like that.
And then what does Bill say onpage if you go to, if it wasn't
again, you've got to cover allthis before you get to go out.
Oh yeah, so Bill finds out onpage 78.
No, I'm sorry, not 78.
It's 79.
Usually this is what Five pagesafter what you read, right?
(21:45):
Usually, however, other peopleare involved.
Oh, we just heard.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Okay go ahead Go ahead, all right.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish
martyr who would needlesslysacrifice others to save himself
from the alcoholic pit.
Oh, then turn the page.
Bill's want to hit you one morefucking time before I let you
go out into the world, becauseyou can do this is why I sparked
you.
Get it.
Before taking drastic actionswhich may implicate another
person, secure their consent.
If we have obtained permission,have consulted with others
asking God to help, and thedrastic step indicated, we must
(22:18):
not shrink, then okay, okay, nowgo.
Because, right, we I've seen,I've seen and I've heard, but
I've seen personally, which Ishared that one story last night
.
People do so much damage rightby going out and not being not
being prepared for the nightstep, and it's so simple.
That's why we don't say we'resorry, right, xyz, behavior was
(22:38):
wrong, please forgive me.
What can I do to make it right?
And whether or not they forgiveyou has got.
No, you're there to clean offyour side of the street the best
you can.
That's all you need to say.
Right, then you just take whatthey've got, but well, well,
so-and-so did this and you'vegot to prepare them for that,
because they can do.
I've seen marriages getdestroyed by a bad, by a faulty
(23:01):
night step, Tell that story.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Tell that story I mean there's no names involved,
because it's true.
I mean, listen, this subjectcame up right.
This subject came up because-.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
I was asked to give an example because I've
sponsored a lot of men.
Here's the example.
Thank, you.
Go through the step.
Uh, we'll just find that placein the book where it says you
know if sex is involved.
It says you know if there wasuh, if there was a fair, do you
do if the wife doesn't knowabout?
The big book says do you tellher?
not necessarily so, and it talksabout certain talking about
infidelity but this is, you know, the big book says not
(23:33):
necessarily we don't, we don'tbring it up if she knows, in a
way that you've been wild ineach situation, but the big big
book's pretty specific on it.
But this is what happened Agentleman had an affair on his
wife.
Right, it was a one-time deal,he didn't bring no diseases home
, nothing like that.
She didn't know about it.
He got sober.
We worked through the steps andI told him what the big book
(23:54):
was about.
We went through the book andwhat the book is clear on, that
good, we went through the bookand what the book is clear on,
that Good he was about.
And then, but they, and he goeswell, rob, you know, because and
I cause I have men who theyhave things like there there's,
there's some things that I can't, I never could get to.
My my parents are dead.
There are certain things thatsome of us have to walk with
(24:16):
right, have to walk with Right.
You know, and God will give youthe strength to walk with it.
Don't fucking repeat thebehavior.
Right, god will give you thestrength, but you have no right
to hurt another human being.
You know, to get the monkey offyour back To save your soul.
Yeah, so the guilt and theshame was eating this guy alive?
Yeah, because he, and so hewent After eight months.
(24:36):
He was eight months sober yeah,he was eight months sober.
Did right, right, but he made adecision based on guilt, fear
and shame and remorse, not ontruth.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Right, not on faith.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Okay, that's what he did.
He was just because his painwas so much he had to give it to
her.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
To give her the pain.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
So she tried, he did.
Basically that's what he didI'm gonna pour this on you.
I'm gonna pour this poisonthat's in me on you yeah because
because he didn't, he didn'tbelieve this and he didn't trust
in god to let, because they Iknow men that are walking with
some shit that this, then thatmakes this look like nothing
right, and god gives them andthey are amazing men of god
today.
So ever so.
(25:17):
About six later.
So he makes it a year and thewife.
They try to work it out, butshe eventually just can't.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
She can't get past it .
No, can't get past it.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
They get divorced.
He had two beautiful littlegirls.
Still does.
I don't know if he might bedrunk now.
Still is.
I'm sure he is.
I don't know he is.
I hope he's sober.
I don't think he is.
Pray for him Doesn't matter.
So after the divorce andthey're working out, you know,
and I'm still, he's still.
He was still sober at the timebut he made it by, I think, like
a year and three months.
The wife said this.
I wish you hadn't told me.
I mean in a lot stronger words.
(25:47):
She says we were happy, right,you were sober.
You know it happened.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
He would eventually went and got drunk.
You didn't, but you no.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
What I just tell you.
With that guilt?
No, if you would have worked itthe way you're supposed to work
it, no, no, no.
Him carrying that guilt, don'tcarry it.
It's not yours to carry, no buthe was carrying it Right, but
that's my point.
And he made a decision based onguilt, fear, shame, remorse.
If he had kept holding that on.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Well, it's fine Today .
More than that, a lot more thanthat you don't need to say
detail, but God gives them thestrength to do that Because
number one the behavior cannotrepeat Right.
I've talked to guys that ifthey said it out loud to some
people they'd be in jail for awhile.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Oh yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
Yeah, and I would never saythis story, but the wife's reply
was saying something Right, Iwish you hadn't told me we were
happy, because when I said theseare her words, honey you didn't
bring any diseases home to me.
You know gratefully I didn'tknow.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss.
I wish you wouldn't have toldme.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Everything was good.
Everything was good.
He just couldn't get throughhis own shit.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
He just couldn't let it be good, Right, he let the
pain and the guilt wear up inhim.
Okay, I'm going to pour thisshit on you.
That's where Bill writes wedon't have the fucking right.
Don't go to your mom, man.
Mom, I really want you to.
There's some things that evenif my parents were alive, I
would not tell them.
They don't need to hear it.
I'll walk with that.
They don't need to know that.
I'm not going to get the monkeyoff my and have that working in
(27:16):
my mother's head.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Right, won't do it no .
Speaker 2 (27:18):
I'll walk with it and my Lord will give me the
strength.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Right, that's what I'm talking about.
I get it.
I completely get it.
Yeah, I think on my side, justin the thought process, because
I thank God I never had to dealwith that.
No, hey, thank.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
God, thank God.
Right, but there are men thatdeal with that, and then they
deal with it well right right soyou just hope and pray that you
know that I would have right.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
God forbid that.
I mean I I think that's mybiggest hang up on that is I
know what my guilt would bedoing to me, but I also know how
hard I worked to get rid ofthat stuff.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
How's your, how's your guilt from the way you
lived your life before, I meaneven?
Speaker 1 (27:56):
oh, it's gone.
It's gone.
Why wouldn't the other one?
It's so.
Why wouldn't God remove theother one?
I mean, you hurt your wiferight.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Did you hurt your?
You didn't hurt your wife.
I did I hurt my wife too.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Okay, I think there's levels of hurt.
There may be, but it depends.
But I mean, that's a wholedifferent level of hurt.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Maybe Right, you I?
Speaker 1 (28:15):
mean, I'm not defending what he did or didn't.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Or didn't?
He made a choice and his choicehad consequences.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Right, right and it's just.
I think what I look at is likeI can't judge.
You know, we've had a guy,we've had guys come in.
I'll still not forget this.
We went up to Knights.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Ferry Diane's reply.
Sorry, we went up there and itwas's ferry.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
We went up there and we um and it was a couple of
days before, like a few weeksbefore Christmas hey, this old
chap, come in After you get done.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I want to.
I want to follow up onsomething I'm going Well, go,
okay, cause you'll forget, youold fucker.
You're probably right.
I've also seen this work inreverse.
That's the story I just gaveyou, because right now, any
woman listen to this podcast.
Oh, he was right to tell her.
He's right.
I've also had not me, this isnot me.
This is a friend of mine.
Female had the same thing, butthe reverse.
(29:08):
The wife had had an affair.
She actually had two affairsgoing on at the same time.
However, she ended him, she gotsober, didn't bring nothing
home to the husband and again,things were going great, things
were going fantastic, but she,right, and the husband more or
less said the same kind of thing.
So so did I, because I, I can,I can hear people.
(29:32):
Well, you see what he, he, she,he was right to do that now.
Now it's reverse females.
I've seen women do the samething I don don't know, Should
she Again?
and each situation's different.
I just showed him what was inthe book, showed him what other
men have done and shared withhim, what some other men no
names, but what they're walkingwith, and he's like, oh damn,
(29:53):
exactly.
So give it some time, let'spray about it.
If God's clear, god will beclear, right, but not all the
time do we become the martyr?
Right, look at me.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Right, because you, which you just did, yeah, what
he did was and you're, andyou're a thousand percent right
he made himself feel better atthe pain of somebody that's
expensive, someone right, andthat's that's not if your
motives.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
If your motives are, because motives are everything
with god and this motives areeverything why are you doing
what you're doing?
Is it to ease your comfort?
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It's all it was.
Is it to ease?
Speaker 2 (30:22):
your conscience.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Is it the right thing to do then?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Right.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Are you doing it for truth?
Are you doing it for what'sright?
I mean, there are circumstanceswhere, yeah, hey, the utmost
frankness is absolutely ready tohappen, and there are times
when it's not.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Right, right Right.
And that's what it talks about,number nine.
Right, what I was getting at is, you know, I I think about
stuff like this.
Like Mike and Kim went through,you know, and Jason and Jason
went through, you know, I waslistening to him.
We, like I said, we went intoKnights Ferry and it was a
little bit before Christmas, Ithink, and it was probably like
(31:05):
a week before Christmas, and I'mthinking to myself, god bless
you, how the fuck would I handlethat?
Speaker 2 (31:14):
Exactly the way he did.
Where should he be?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
I pray, I pray that Into the rooms around his men,
and I get it.
But I'm also saying the samething is I don't know how I'd
have reacted if I'd have had.
You know, once again, we don'tknow how we're going to react
until we're put into thatsituation.
So I can't judge somebody.
I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
That's right, right.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I and this is why because I know you well enough,
rob, that you we're not judgingthat guy and what he did, no,
what we feel his actions werewrong, but we didn't have to
live in his shoes and we don'tknow what he would have done
with that guilt.
Hey, guilt kills people.
Yes, guilt makes people hangthemselves and drink them right
to death.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
So guilt is a horrible fucking thing to live
with.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
Remorse all how you deal with it correct is is of
the utmost importance.
Right, don't do any more damagethan needed to somebody else.
Yeah, right, and that, I think,is the biggest key coming out.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I'm not saying every situation is cookie cutter,
because it isn't for sure but Ibelieve his was, I believe, I
believe he handled it poorlybecause his motives are wrong
right and I don't.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I don't, once again not disagreeing with you.
I don't know how I would have,I know how my guilt gets me.
Even if I, even if I shrink oneof my wife's shirts in the
dryer because I wasn't supposedto dry it and I fold it and hide
it, that would guilt me till Ifucking had to pull it out.
See, I fucking shrinked yourshirt, you know I just I can't,
(32:38):
I wouldn't even.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
I just show it, right ?
Hey, babe, look what I just did.
I know I better find it.
Did you just?
Yeah, I did it, I did it.
My guilt is fucking.
I won't even feel it.
I ain't got to feel no guilt.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
No, I probably would have done, that's probably would
, but it ain't fucking anotherguy's wife or you know fucking
around, it's just not that.
I mean there's levels of that,there's levels, so I don't know
how that I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
My wife thinks pornography, if I, if I was to
watch pornography, that that'scheating.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
I don't disagree with her, don't disagree with, I do,
I don't watch it, but you know,but still, hey, okay, I do, uh,
midget porn, just kidding,that's comedy, just kidding.
Hey, that's comedy, justkidding.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
That's not, that's funny, there's no point, but we
need to talk about that becausea lot of the men I sponsored a
lot of them.
You're not one of them, but alsostruggle with that oh for sure,
and that's something when I gothrough this you know when I
especially after they get sober,when I go through the sex
inventory, because that's one ofthe things I bring up hey, how
are you with pornography, right?
Is that?
Well, shit robin, I'm kind ofnot.
(33:40):
I'm working on, okay, thenthat's something.
Then right, then we right, it'sa great time just to just for
anybody, turn the steps andlet's start working a little bit
of that, right, because that'spoison.
There's more stuff out therethat's poison.
Absolutely, that's as muchpoison as whiskey or drugs.
Yeah, It'll destroy marriages.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
It'll destroy marriages.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
It'll destroy lives.
It's terrible yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Absolutely, there's my we see.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
I've seen my public broadcast, but I've seen guys
destroy their lives.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I mean, yes, I've watched it, even when I was
still drinking.
I've just like did you cheat onhim?
No, what.
What happened?
I couldn't stop looking at porn.
What the fuck?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
is wrong with you I mean, it's a, it's a, it's an
addiction.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
It's crazy, I mean I'm sitting here drinking my
probably 100th beard and judginghim for looking at porn.
The addiction's the same.
Yeah, there's difference.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
It's just as destructive so is my alcohol and
God's just as big Right.
So tie him in if you can.
That's just something to thinkabout next time you sponsor
someone.
Right, ask him Right.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Recovering on Filter Podcast at gmailcom.
Rob anything else, Not that Ican make it you done yelling at
me?
Speaker 2 (34:47):
No, I didn't yell.
Did I get in?
No, no.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I love getting you riled up, but I do.
I still want to do a wholeseries of podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
Would I jump from page to page Just?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
when you go the way you flip from like Bill.
You got such a grasp on howBill writes and you remember
that book so well.
I want to do a whole series ofa podcast where we just
literally dig into that kind ofstuff and just have you record
it, because I think it's.
I think it's very valuable andI love when you do it.
(35:18):
It's hard to keep up with you,but if it's recorded people can
go back and forth.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Well, like the meetings, because we're going,
it's just spontaneous because itis it's hard to say.
Well, because in my, my mother'scare, I'm just having me on
page 77 here which, if you wantto know for everybody, on the
top of page 77 tells you whatyour purpose is and it's not
just me and I'll tell you whatit is.
It says our real purpose, notour fake one.
Our real purpose is to talk tothe alcoholics and this is the
(35:43):
way we're supposed to live.
Our real purpose is to fitourselves, to be of maximum
service to God and the peopleabout us.
It's got nothing to do with us.
All right, and if you want togo to page 102.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Here we go See, this is what I love.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
We'll go to page 102, because Bill wants to drive
something home to you, so hespreads it out just enough.
And again, some of you want tosay it's inspired.
I don't know what you want tosay, but what does it say on
page 102?
Your job you know that this isat the bottom third.
Or says your job now, right,your job now is to be at the
place where you may be.
Of mac, there's a word here'show you know he's got the same
(36:17):
thought maximum, right.
He doesn't say services hashelpfulness, but maximum is
there.
So you know he's touching.
He's touching back on right,yeah, of maximum healthiness to
others.
So never hesitate to goanywhere.
If you can be helpful, youshould not hesitate to visit the
most sordid spot on earth.
Listen to that.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
On such an errand.
Keep on the fiery line of lifewith these motives and God will
keep you unharmed.
That's a fucking promise, right, that's a promise better than
anything in the night, stepRight.
Listen to that.
Go to to any sort of spot withyour motive, correct right of
help and service that's withanything remorse help and
service and god will keep you inharm.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
Absolutely, absolutely.
That's a promise.
Love it see.
That's where I would love to dolike a whole series of you
grabbing, just like you'realready digging at something
else well, because every page,every margin has a number a page
number so you can go back andsee how these things tie in,
because it's important.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
When Bill repeats something, or anybody, when the
Bible repeats it, it's foreffect, because and it's not
just willy nilly it's because wehave seen people.
I have seen people.
I know people have destroyedmarriages, destroyed their lives
, doing things for the wrongreasons not necessarily the
wrong thing, but you did it withthe wrong motive right the
(37:33):
motive which is makes what makesit wrong right, absolutely so,
and destroy things when youcould be living a happy, joyous
life right now, you fuckingpussy there you go sorry, that's
you cut that out.
That's wrong, but that's againjust you're good because I know,
I mean I'm so grateful to Godbecause I know guys walking with
, walking with stuff, you know,and man, and they are the most
(37:55):
used of.
God but not that they're themost used men of God, that I
know.
He who loves much has beenforgiven much right.
He who loves little has beenforgiven little Right.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
So trust me, atta boy , yeah, I love you, so keep you
know, stay on the firing linesand God will keep you unharmed
and don't ever make a decisionbased on fear, guilt, shame,
remorse, If it's not truth, ifit's not fact walk with it.
Right, there you go.
Recovery on filter podcast atgmailcom.
That's recoveryonfilterpodcastsat gmailcom.
(38:28):
We'll come back in a week Ifyou're lucky.
Thank you for joining us today.
We hope you learned somethingtoday that will help you If you
did not come back next week, andwe'll try again.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If you like what we heard, give us a five-star
review.
If you don't like what youheard, kiss my ass.
I can't say that, can you?
Anyway, if you don't like whatyou heard, go ahead and tell us
that too.
We'll see what we can improve.
We probably won't changenothing, but do it anyway.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Thanks, rob.
Come back next week andhopefully something will be
different and something willsink in.
Take care, this has beenRecovery Unfiltered.
Thank you.
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