July 7, 2023 • 41 mins
Writer, producer, and director Matt Nix (True Lies, the Good Guys, Burn Notice) shares his unique perspective on the Show Your Safety campaign, and how Hollywood can be a change-driver by encapsulating messages of responsible gun ownership within captivating (and realistic) storylines. With JJ, Matt breaks down how crafting narratives on responsible gun ownership and gun safety messages isn't impossible, how more folks want a John Wick gun safe than you might think, and how storytelling isn't hampered with a fight for social good.
Further reading:
Hollywood Actors, Directors, Creators Discuss Gun Safety (Brady)
Gun Guidelines for the Media (Hollywood Health and Society)
Brady Organization Calls On Hollywood To Examine Onscreen Gun Violence; Hundreds Of Writers, Producers & Directors Sign Pledge (Deadline)
'Yellowstone' and Hollywood's Quiet Pivot to Showing Gun Safety Onscreen (the Ankler)
House Roundtable: ‘Hollywood Has Been Due for a Reckoning’ (Variety)
For more information on Brady, follow us on social media @Bradybuzz or visit our website at bradyunited.org.
Full transcripts and bibliographies of this episode are available at bradyunited.org/podcast.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255.
In a crisis? Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a Crisis Counselor 24/7.
Music provided by: David “Drumcrazie” Curby
Special thanks to Hogan Lovells for their long-standing legal support
℗&©2019 Red, Blue, and Brady
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the legal disclaimer, where I tell you
that the views, thoughts andopinions shared on this podcast
belong solely to our guests andhosts and not necessarily Brady
or Brady's affiliates.
Please note this podcastcontains discussions of violence
that some people may finddisturbing.
It's okay, we find itdisturbing.
Hey everybody, welcome back toanother episode of Red Bloom
(00:45):
Brady.
I'm one of your hosts, jj, andI'm so excited today as we
continue our Show Your Safetyseries, all where we're talking
to creative folks about how theyuse their storytelling
abilities to combat gun violence.
Today I was so lucky to speakwith Matt Nix.
He's a producer, a writer, adirector, an all-around
(01:05):
brilliant guy.
Matt was so kind to sit downwith us and talk about all of
the ways in which showing safestorage narratives on screen can
maybe help shift cultural normsand ultimately prevent gun
violence.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I am Matt Nix.
I'm a writer, producer andsometimes director in Los
Angeles, currently probably bestknown for creating and running
the show Burn Notice on USA someyears ago.
But since then I've done a lotof different shows.
I did a show called The Giftedon Fox It was an X-Men show that
(01:40):
ran for a couple years and I'mcurrently doing True Lies on CBS
.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And your voice is in Burn Notice, So add voice actor
to that right.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yes, Yes, it actually is.
Yes, I'm the guy who says wegot a Burn Notice on you.
You're blacklisted.
I'm also the voice of thecomputer in True Lies.
So yes, my voice.
acting accounts are everywhere.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Everyone on the podcast is going to get to enjoy
it now too with us, And I'mwondering if you can maybe break
down why it is that you're inDC here today, beyond just to
enjoy the fact that it'sstarting to become DC summer.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, what brings me here today is that a year and a
half ago, i had a delightfulmeeting with some folks from the
Brady campaign.
That's the official name, theBrady campaign Just Brady.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Brady, kind of like Just Prince, we're just Brady.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, okay, all right , it's an organization named
Brady.
So, yes, i had a delightfulcoffee with some folks and
signed onto this campaign Andthen they said, hey, do you want
to come to DC?
And I was like, great, i'd loveto come to DC.
And so I got on a plane andhere I am.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah, and that campaign that you signed on for
that a lot of folks did iscalled the Show Your Safety
campaign And it's a really largeinitiative.
We're asking, i think, kind ofa lot of creative folks out
there in the world to kind ofmaybe modify or think about the
way it is that they're showingfirearms and firearms ownership
on TV And I wonder, or in otherforms of media, and I wonder if
(03:07):
you could maybe explain, as acreator, why that is something
that's actually important to you, kind of that adoption.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think that One of the things that really appealed
to me about the campaign,because, I mean, I'll be
perfectly honest.
When I sat down with the folksfrom Brady, I was like I need
you to understand as I go intothis meeting.
You may not want to be talkingto me, right?
I am doing shows like I doadventure shows, I do action
(03:39):
shows, I do shows that involve alot of firearms, like it's just
, you know, cop shows.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Bernodas has a Wikipedia about the guns.
Oh yeah, Because it's spiesdoing spy stuff, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And we were constantly like changing up
weapons and that kind of thing,and there was a lot of sort of
nitty gritty about weapons andsort of how they worked and you
know which ones were better forwhich applications And you know.
So I mean, one of a reallyexciting day on Bernodas was
when I found these.
(04:11):
There's a special ammunitionthat is used when shooting
electronics with a shotgun.
I was like, oh, there are theselittle titanium cubes and you
shoot them out of a shotgun andthey will destroy electronics.
I was like that's fantastic,i'm so excited.
So, but that's the sort ofthing that I've done a lot of.
And I was like, so if whatyou're looking for is people who
(04:34):
are like not doing that, orpeople are going to like not
write stories that involvefirearms and stuff, i'm not your
guy, right?
And they were like, no, no, no,that that's.
You know that that's not whatthis is about.
It's really about portrayinggun safety on television in a
way that you know will reachpeople.
And what was exciting for meabout that was I was like, yeah,
(04:57):
that I can totally do That Iwould love to do.
Right, that is fantasticBecause I think that, you know,
obviously it's a very chargedissue.
There's a lot of there's.
Sometimes it seems like there'snot a lot of middle ground, but,
like, how do you argue againstgun safety?
You know, i mean, it'sultimately that's a pretty
straightforward thing, and theappeal of saying, hey, we can do
(05:19):
for this what we did for safefor seatbelts or what we did for
cigarettes or that kind ofthing, just, you know, showing
best practices on television, itwas really appealing to me And
it was a way that I couldparticipate in this really
important issue in a way thatactually worked with what I was
doing.
I would also say that one thingthat was really exciting for me
(05:40):
is when I've, when I've seenthings in Hollywood about these
kinds of issues over the years,there's just been a lot of
preaching to the choir.
Right, it's like, oh really,this show that is obviously anti
gun is going to, you know, like, be even more anti gun.
(06:02):
OK, well, who are you reaching?
Like you're reaching the samepeople that they already believe
you that you don't need that,right.
And for me, like, as someonewith a big audience of I'm
burned out a certainly hugeaudience of gun owners, huge,
right, that was for me like, oh,this is a way that I can
(06:23):
participate and actually reachpeople where it might matter.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, you're not telling people who don't own a
gun to not go out and buy a gun.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's like here's how to store the gun you don't own
safely.
Right, we need to reach peoplewho own guns and care about guns
and, you know, encourage them.
And one of the things that Italked to the Brady folks about
was when I was doing burn notice.
torture was really big in thenews at the time.
And I kind of made a rule on theshow We don't do torture Right,
(06:57):
and so there was a bigvoiceover element on the show
and they would sort of explainhow things worked and stuff, and
so I would just have thecharacters talk about, you know,
in the voiceovers or betweeneach other, just the raw fact
that torture doesn't work Right.
It's like OK, knock yourselfout Right.
And for me it was always likelooking at shows where you know
(07:20):
you're questioning somebody andthen you shoot them in the leg
and then they give you theanswer.
If it was that simple, i thinkI don't think we'd really need
to question people.
It would just be like just geta dedicated leg shooting rig and
then they just give you all theanswers Right.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And so we always did deception or befriending or like
all of the things that peoplereally do to get information out
of the tactics that have beenshown to actually to work, as
opposed to the ones that we feelemotionally would work.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Exactly, yeah.
And the other thing is and thisis just a thing about Hollywood
One of the things about tortureis it's a really convenient way
to run us to write a scene,right, because you know how long
is the scene going to be.
It's going to be like a pageand a half, so there's going to
be like tell me, i'll never tellyou.
You have to tell me.
I'll never tell you, i'll shootyou in the leg, i don't care,
(08:13):
blam, all right, i'll tell you,right.
Okay, that's about a minute anda half right, and then you know
we're on to the next thing.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's a close.
it's a small set, don't need alot of dressing, Yeah exactly.
And I'm sure, narratively it'suseful, right, because it's bam.
Not only that, but also ah,this is the good character, this
is the bad character, like itsets up, there's a lot you can
do with that, right, but if it'snot helpful to the wider world,
i think that's the balance,right?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, and I think we just and there was one of my
proudest moments on that showwas I was contacted by a Senate
staffer who had been people hadbeen in a congressional meeting
talking about the 24 scenario,right, and why torture might be
(08:57):
necessary in the 24 scenario.
And she came back with, well,what about the burn notice
scenario?
Like, if we're talking about TVshows, they did that same thing
and they didn't torture.
Why don't we do that?
right, i was like yes, exactlyright.
And so that was a case where Isaw, i mean, did we change the
world?
No, i mean like there was stilla huge torture scandal.
(09:19):
I didn't stop that.
But I did realize like okay,this is a thing that can make a
difference.
And you know, i mean it's funny.
Like when you talk about burnnotice, like nobody in Hollywood
seen burn notice, like they'revaguely aware of it, but like go
to a military base, oh yeah,they've seen it right.
(09:40):
Like that's the kind of thing.
And that's a great example oflike well, you know who should
hear the sort of like torturedoesn't work, message A bunch of
Hollywood liberals or a bunchof people on military bases, i'm
gonna go with the militarybases.
And so that was one of thereasons that I was so
enthusiastic about this.
I was like, yeah, like let medo it.
(10:00):
And so as soon as I got out ofthat meeting, i just got on the
phone with the folks from thetrue lies.
You know, when we were cause,we were building the sets And I
was like, guys, we're doing gunsafes, bunch of gun safes, and
so it was super fun.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And I, for folks who might not be aware of, i think,
kind of like TV in particular, ithink has had such a big impact
on norm change in the US for anumber of things.
Like you mentioned, smoking,you used to see people smoke
perpetually in TV shows.
They cut that out.
But just seeing characters,like beloved characters, put a
seatbelt on made people who gowell, no, that's not, i don't
(10:38):
need to wear it, it's not safe.
I'm safer if I don't have one.
Go well, no, if, like, myfavorite character does it, i'll
do it.
There's all these sort ofsafety things that I think come
out of what folks see whenthey're sitting at home at night
.
And you don't maybe you're notlike I know I don't consume a
lot of media in the evening.
When I'm sitting home to watchthe office for the 87th time,
i'm not doing it to like have alot of deep thoughts, it's
(10:59):
myself, i'm just enjoying it.
But there are things you learnand pick up from just what you
consume.
And so hey, he gets home, putsomething in a safe.
It's an easy connection that ifit's repeated enough and people
have a connection to thatcharacter, i could see folks
going out to buy one.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, although I would even go beyond that,
because certainly there arehabitual.
I would actually say an almostbetter example.
What I would aspire to iswhat's sold smoking to begin
with.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Oh, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Because like okay, you go on TV and like people are
not smoking.
Okay how much is that changingbehaviors Right?
I would argue that one of thebiggest things that changed
behaviors around smoking wasshowing smoking as a thing that
was unhealthy.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Oh yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Or just like Here's your diseased lungs.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But not even so much that like here's your diseased
lungs, because people can turnthat off.
People can, they can, justthat's not me.
I can't see my own lungs.
Maybe my lungs are like I don'twant to think about it.
But when smoking a big thingthat happened on TV is smoking
became a thing that low-lifesdid, smoking became more of kind
(12:19):
of a weakness, an indulgence.
But how did smoking getpopularized?
It was cool.
It was like the long draw on acigarette, you know, and the
slow exhale over the sexy eyes,right, and it became associated
with sexiness and masculinityand all of these things and all
(12:41):
of those images really weresuper powerful, right.
And so, yeah, i mean, i thinkdefinitely, you know, you can
kind of habituate people tocertain kinds of behaviors by
seeing it over and over.
Personally, i think we canaspire to something better,
(13:03):
right, the thing that I said tothe Brady folks when I was
visiting with them is like Ithink what you want is for
people to go to a gun show andbe like, hey, go to the gun safe
booth and say, hey, do you havethat cool gun safe that John
Wick had in the movie?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
right, I've had people on this podcast be like I
cannot wait to have like my ownJohn Wick, like walk-in safe.
Yeah, yeah, Like they want it.
that's the thing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And so like that's.
So you've got the walk-in safe,you've got the cool biometric
lock, you know those kinds ofthings, because there's a
certain I mean, until we sort ofgrapple honestly with the kind
of macho fun of it, right, likethat's a lot of, is that right?
(13:53):
And I should say the macho funof gun culture, right.
And there's no reason that gunsafes can't be part of that,
right, a cool trigger lock canbe part of that, right.
And so I mean, another thingthat we were talking about was,
I think you know what's anobjection to gun safes?
(14:13):
Well, if there's an intruder, iwon't be able to get the gun
safe out in time.
I won't be able to get the gunout of the safe in time, right?
So one of the things that I setas a goal over the season of
True Lies was there's anintruder and he gets the gun out
of the gun safe in time, right,oh, okay, well, why?
Because he's a badass, becausehe's fast, he's awesome, like,
(14:36):
if you can't get your gun out ofyour gun safe in time, there's
something wrong with you, right,like you're not doing it, right
, like you that's the kind ofthing we want to model.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I appreciate it because your characters that are
engaging with these firearmsit's never like a novice
firearms right Like these areall people who definitely they
know their guns their good shots.
They know their ammo like theywould know kind of inside and
out what's good, what's not.
You know, they're not kind ofjust wandering in picking
something off the shelf, right.
(15:04):
So then to show them using it,and using it effectively, i
think then ties it to.
This is what cool people use,like this, yeah, like this is if
you want to be part of thisculture.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
This is an addendum to it And I think you know
fetishizing expertise andknowledge and skill, like that's
a real thing, right?
I mean, i think, as was thecase with cigarettes, what we
were just talking about, likethe, i think every time we
(15:35):
portray on television somebetterexternal victory, you
cannot take it off the shelf,you can't get it out the photo
yourself.
Some idiot who doesn't know howto use a gun bumbling with a
gun and looking stupid an angelgets its wings.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that's a really importantthing And because that's again
(15:57):
something to aspire to, you canwatch and be like.
I wanna be like that person.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I don't wanna be the guy who just puts it my gun in
my back pocket and it falls outwhile I'm like like walking my
kid to school, right, I wanna bethe guy who has it
appropriately holstered, who'slicensed or who has it in a gun
lock inside my car Right,Because I've got a cool gun like
gun safe built into my car thatI've gotten put together.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, exactly, and that's, i mean, one of the
things that I mean.
actually, on Burned Out is oneof the things that we had a
chance to talk about.
I don't know that we ever didthis specifically, but it's
definitely the kind of thingthat we did is just have the
main character walk in to ahouse and be like every idiot
(16:41):
leaves a gun in a drawer.
You know what I mean.
And here's the hiding placethat everybody knows about,
right, and just go get andsuddenly, like all across
America, people are like oh wait, a second, am I that idiot?
They put the gun in an easilyaccessible drawer where someone
could really easily steal it,right, and that's an important
(17:01):
message to get out there.
I think you know more importantor probably more effective at
changing behavior than all sortsof, you know, kind of very
negative or you know like kindof on their face, emotionally
(17:21):
impactful things, like okay.
so again, i would say seeingthe scene where a kid comes in
and finds the gun in the drawerand is playing with the gun and
is, you know like it's horrible,it's the equivalent of the
black lungs for smoking, right,it's just people just shut down.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
People assume it won't be my kid it won't be, or
they just it can't handle it.
It's just too much, it's tooclose Yeah too close.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But oh, cool people never keep their guns in drawers
.
That's a.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And it's snarky, so it's a joke.
It doesn't feel like it'sdirectly targeted at them, but I
should modify this And it alsoI think probably then signals
that you're credible or the showis a credible messenger.
Because I think about all of thelike the first responders of
law enforcement or military thatwe've had on the podcast or
that I know that are like youknow, if we're looking, if
they're going into a house andthey look for like it's gonna be
(18:13):
in the glove box, it's gonna beright next to the couch under
the thing It's gonna be, andthey know that those are like
the three spots that they'remost likely to be.
So when a show then points thatout, folks that are engaged in
that go yeah seems right yeah,seems fair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, theyknow what they're talking about.
They didn't.
This isn't a writer's room Andyou know, in West LA that was
like ah, let's Google whatpeople do with guns Like this is
(18:36):
related to that.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And it's fine.
Yeah, it's funny.
Actually, I realized just howclosely people were paying
attention.
It was in the first year ofburn notice where we had to
shoot a scene where someone islooking out a window and they
identify a Mossad agent becausehe has a Desert Eagle right,
(18:59):
Which is the, you know, was theI'm not sure if it still is, but
it was then the sidearm of theMossad And then we actually had
to shoot the scene.
We didn't shoot the person atthe window and the POV where you
saw the person with the gun.
We didn't shoot them at thesame time.
(19:20):
And then when we had to shootthe guy with the gun, he was
walking across the street and aDesert Eagle is so big.
It's like a cannon right And thepoor actor was like I can't
walk with this, it's so hugeright, you have that Clint
Eastwood walk by default, causeit just yeah, yeah, desert.
Eagle should be carried by,like the rock can carry a Desert
(19:43):
.
Eagle like not just a regularskinny actor.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And it would still look big in his hand, like it's
a large.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So we gave him a baby Eagle, which is the smaller
version of a Desert Eagle, andthe mail we got for identifying
a baby Eagle as a Desert Eagleit was like I was like wow,
people really care.
But it did tell me like yeah,people are really watching this
and they're paying attention tothe firearms and like we need to
(20:12):
.
You know, keep it tight and payattention And you know,
thinking about a campaign likethis, it speaks to yeah no, we
you can have an influence.
It makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
And I mean I know that you talked about like so
you're already putting the setdesign together.
So you call and say we're justgonna add we want gun safes.
But it doesn't seem like thatwas a huge in the grand scheme
of things.
Essentially like essentially ina production like that, that's
a huge expenditure or huge timesinker that it's gonna
fundamentally kind of changewhat a character is by just
adding in.
You know that they lock theirgun up when they go at home.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No, i mean honestly, like I can't.
It was to be honest.
I was like the Brady folks weresuper happy And I was like, wow
, it was like the easiest thingin the world.
I didn't have to build the gunsafe.
I literally just was like putit in gun safe.
Yeah, i mean honestly, it'slike guns on television don't
(21:05):
materialize out of thin air.
They have to be in places andthey have to be picked up from
those places, and so they mightas well be picked up from gun
safes, like why not?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
right Instead of a side table.
and just Yeah instead of a sidetable, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So we actually do have a side table gun safe which
has a biometric secret drawerthat has to be accessed, you
know, but you can't just openthe drawer And so so, yeah,
that's you know for us, becauseit's true lies and it's sort of
a heightened universe and stuff.
(21:42):
It was just kind of fun to belike, okay, so they've got this
cool one and this cool one, andthere were actually a couple
that we built that that wedidn't end up photographing.
So hopefully we get anotherseason and we can show them.
So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And I think, too, what that then goes is that it
shows to folks out in the wideraudience as well that, like
there are all sorts of differentsafe storage options too that
you might not necessarily thinkof.
I think a lot of people picturelike an old timey loony tunes
safe and that that's it and thatis expensive And that's the end
, when really there's everythingfrom trigger locks that are
very inexpensive to biometricsafes that aren't that expensive
(22:18):
.
to like, you can go very hightech.
I want your side table.
I feel like that just soundsfun.
Like that would just be cool tohave.
I don't own a firearmpersonally at the moment, but
I'm like that would be kind offun just to have in the house
Have a little secret pouch.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And you know and too like would that make people
wanna build new, cooler ones aswell, like different storage
options?
I think that would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, and it's funny I didn't think about telling the
story, but it's true.
When I was a kid, my uncle whoI'm my middle name I was named
after him, and my sister's namedafter his, my aunt, his wife,
(23:00):
as is my daughter actually, Sothey were a very important part
of our family and it was mygreat uncle And I got a BB gun
for Christmas And I spent prettymuch my entire grade school
years like running around in thedesert shooting things with my
BB gun.
It was like a big deal to me.
(23:21):
But when I got the gun he satme down and basically would not
let me get up until I understoodyou never point a gun at
anything or anyone unless you'reintending to use it.
And we went over in greatdetail the importance of gun
(23:45):
safety with a BB gun andeverything.
And it was very impactful to meAnd I had a lot of respect for
him and I took it very seriously.
And You know I never pointed itat anybody, right, all of which
sort of.
I saw it in a different lightafter my uncle shot himself, but
(24:09):
yeah, and I was like oh, wow,that's.
I mean he meant it when he saidlike don't point it unless
you're planning on using it.
But I was like, wow, that's acase of like I didn't even know
that he had a fire.
You know, I knew that he'dstruggled with depression.
But yeah, i mean, it was athing that really hit home for
(24:31):
me where I was like, wow, that's, i wish I'd known and I'd been
able to sit down with him, youknow, and have that conversation
.
But yeah, so I guess I had avery impactful experience with
gun safety through him.
That got even more impactfulthrough his later actions.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well, i mean one thank you for like sharing and
disclosing, because I know likeit's never easy to just like
talk about it and then likeyou've got to live in that brain
space Again, like it all comesback up.
So thank you for sharing thatand like for being engaged in
this work now too.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I mean, i also think about as much as I was cautious
I was also a kid with a BB gunand, you know, did the odd dumb
thing And when I think aboutthat, also the consequences of
doing a dumb thing with a BB guntypically going to be painful
(25:26):
but not life changing, yeahRight, and that's the really sad
thing is like we're makingmistakes, so consequential you
know, and then with suicide it'slike, ah man, that bad day.
Man, that was really easy to.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And you can't, yeah, you can't.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Then no take backs Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And then it's the ripple effect too, of that
violence on everybody elsearound you that that keeps going
, which is certainly, i think,not what folks are intending.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And that moment at all.
It just that's the reality ofthem being gone from the world.
Right, and is that it hurts?
It hurts the folks who arebehind in dealing with it.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Going back to the campaign, i think that, to the
extent that I mean, when youthink about, okay, what's going
to be effective, yeah, like,what's actually going to change
behavior, again, i think to theextent that you portray gun
(26:29):
ownership as a discipline, itinvolves some work, it involves
some expertise and some studyand some discipline and some
action and all of those things.
And responsibility, andresponsibility and maturity and
all of those things.
And so it's kind of like what Iwould hope is that I think that
(26:55):
for anybody that really wantsto be a gun owner, there's
nothing negative about that.
I mean, it's sort of like okay,so you're an expert and you're
disciplined and you're payingattention to these things and
stuff like that.
But I think that it can alsohave this other effect of people
like, ideally, people who arejust casual about it or not
really thinking about it, couldkind of look at the world of gun
(27:18):
owners as portrayed ontelevision or on in movies and
go.
You know that looks like toomuch work, right, i'm not really
that kind of person And sort ofkeeping guns, making guns not
feel like the sort of thing thatpeople like you do if that
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, it's that if there's a heavy responsibility
along with owning this thing orliving kind of in this culture
or doing this thing, that thereare steps that go along with it,
then it's not something to beentered into casually, like you
don't just go on a Friday, buyone, come home, bam, you're done
and that's the end all.
And it's also, i think,important because it's not
talking down to gun owners, asyou pointed out, because the gun
(28:00):
owners, they're experts.
They're, i think, if I remembercorrectly, multiple characters.
They speak multiple languages.
They just know an incredibleamount of stuff beyond just the
gun stuff too, right?
So it's that these are folkswho are very elite and very
special and like, if you wannabe part of that as well you can,
but you also have to beresponsible, do all the stuff.
(28:22):
Yeah, you gotta do all the sidepiece and the side work that
goes with it.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, i remember when I was a kid I saw I'd never
seen the movie Deliverance.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, like I saw Deliverance and I was like, oh
my God, that is like it was sucha macho fantasy for me.
and I was like mom, dad, iwanna take bow lessons, i wanna
learn how to you know.
and they were like sure, and sothey, you know, signed me up
and I think I did two and I waslike this is so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
There's math involved .
Yeah, my fingers hurt And myfingers hurt and oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
okay, and I think that, like that would be a
really good model.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Right, like if we could achieve that for American
gun ownership, that'd just bemore like owning a bow and arrow
.
Like, oh yeah, it's somethingif you're committed to it, if
it's something that you reallywanna do, if you're gonna like
put in the time and put in theeffort and like really learn to
do this thing, great, knockyourself out.
But like you, don't keep a bowand arrow in your like in your
(29:24):
purse, just in case you know youdon't keep it in your glove
compartment And then, like thereare very few bow and arrow road
rage incidents in the UnitedStates, because it's just a pain
in the ass.
do you know what I mean?
It's a lot to learn.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And there's a skill in the shooting of it.
Yeah, i never thought of itfrom the bow and arrow angle,
but I always think of it as kindof like the equivalent of like
it's like dog ownership.
Like if you own a really bigdog, like if you own a German
Chepard or King Corso.
Like you can't take your doganywhere but you gotta make sure
you've trained it well, youknow what you're doing.
It's expensive, there's upkeep.
You should probably take someclasses before you get it.
(29:59):
Should you own one if you livein a like in a studio apartment
in DC?
Probably not.
It's not great, yeah, but Ithink actually that kind of
thing.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
But when you think about that, i think that there's
there are kind of two sides tothat right, because I think that
a lot of people can hear thatkind of message as this sort of
like permission.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Oh yeah, that you need.
I can see that.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
You can only have this if you jump through these
hoops that.
I say you need to jump throughright, and I think people's
instinctive response to that isscrew you, i don't want to jump
through your hoops.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And who are you to tell me what hoops there are?
Yeah, who declared you queen ofGerman Shepherd?
Yeah, literally I can?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I'm just going to go buy a German Shepherd.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I'll do what I want with my German Shepherd.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
This is the United States of America.
I'm sure there's some GermanShepherd amendment in the
Constitution.
I haven't read it recently, Butthe, but I think that to the
extent that that message can beflipped on its head right And
the sort of positive attributesof responsible German Shepherd
(31:02):
ownership can be showcased Like,oh yeah, like you wouldn't want
to be a German Shepherd ownerwithout knowing all the German
Shepherd things.
There's a certain kind of personwho is a German Shepherd owner,
who approaches it a certainkind of way, And you know that
is something to be aspired to.
Like you should, but like youdon't just buy a German Shepherd
(31:24):
.
What are you crazy?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
That's, it's going to be folks within that community,
then can self police to likewhy are you coming to the dog
park if you don't follow allthese rules and do all these
things?
We've just messed up the SEO onthis episode, so terribly all
these dog lovers are going to belike.
I was promised Westminster dogshow on Google and I got gun
violence instead.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, I did Turner and Hooch that that had firearms
and dogs.
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Full seven degrees of separation.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I will say that was actually quite a learning
experience, which was like dogsreally have to be trained to be
okay with being around firearms.
We had a lot of very quiet gunson that show because the dogs
did not like the guns And theysmell.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Dogs, not fans, Not a fan of it And not a fan of gun
violence in general.
I would say Dogs are.
They're a peaceful, lovingcreature.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
They're peaceful, I mean they can be trained in
other directions, although,oddly, the dogs that we had on
that show could not be trained.
They were just like they didwhatever they wanted.
They were yeah.
So.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Well, I'm sorry for possibly the negative turn Hooch
flashback that I just caused Inthe time that we have left.
I'm just curious where do youthink ultimately this is going
to go though?
Like, do you see thisinitiative even in your own work
or kind of more broadly inmedia?
Do you think you're going tosee more and more folks showing
kind of, or modeling,responsible gun ownership Or, as
(32:43):
you pointed out, like maybemodeling irresponsible gun
ownership but as a negativecharacter, flaw right, like
that's what this character thatyou clearly don't want to
emulate is doing?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, i mean, i think my hope is that I really feel
like the potential of thiscampaign is that a thousand
flowers can bloom and that, andwhat I would hope is that,
moving forward, people canreally embrace the idea that it
doesn't look the same on everyshow, right?
(33:13):
But I think that there isdefinitely a narrative out there
And this could soundself-serving, but I think it's
true.
I think there's a narrative outthere that, like, there's a
certain kind of message aboutgun safety that is the right
kind of message and a certainkind of scene.
(33:34):
That is the right kind of scene.
And it's a kind of scene thatappeals very much to sort of
coastal sensibilities and itappeals to non-gun owners and
that kind of thing.
And I think that people seethat for what it is.
(33:56):
It's people not like mepreaching to me about how I
should live my life And this isjust not a good time for that in
the United States.
It doesn't work right.
It's the smolty music plays, andthen they're like I'm being
pandered or lectured, i'm beinglectured, i'm being lectured too
exactly, and that, i think, isbecause, honestly, when I sat
(34:18):
down with Brady, i was likethey're going to not like what I
have to say.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You get a brochure.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I'll get a brochure and they're just going to be
like no, because I was basicallylike I know what they're going
to want, right, they're going towant me to do a scene that I
can never do on True Lies.
It's an action comedy, right,for that matter.
On True Lies, famously, I thinkArnold Schwarzenegger in the
movie killed like 90 people inthe first scene.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
He's hanging from a helicopter.
It doesn't translate as wellwith-.
It's not a gun safety movieright.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And the show itself exists in this heightened action
universe, right.
But realizing that there was away that we could participate in
that was really important.
And one of the things that Isaid in that initial meeting was
here's a scene that I think youreally want out there And it's
(35:21):
a hard scene to pitch right Andit's not going to fit in with
the sensibilities of, kind ofthe traditional gun safety Brady
campaign like that kind ofthing.
It's not going to fit in withthose sensibilities.
But I think it would make areal difference, which is if you
(35:41):
took a show an anti-hero show,right.
If you took a show a BreakingBad or a Sons of Anarchy or
something like that, right Andyou had a bad guy discover that
another bad guy had stored a gunwhere a kid could get it, and
(36:03):
then you have the responsiblebad guy kick the living shit out
of the irresponsible bad guyand say, basically no man ever
stores a gun where a kid couldfind it.
And if you ever do that again,you won't just be swallowing
your teeth, you're dead.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Breaking Bad did that with like opioid access?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
You can make and use all the meth you want, but you
don't put it where a child canuse it And it's a pivotal moment
for a character's developmentof like, oh like.
It gets the audience on hisside because there's honor in
this person, Exactly, and it's amacho approach And it's not
preachy.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I think it's accurate right.
But you know and I was sayinglike I can't defend that I'm not
necessarily pro bad guys makingother bad guys swallow their
teeth, but I do think thatthat's a message and an approach
that kind of meets people wherethey live.
(37:05):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
That that's like okay , well, And it's very believable
because it's it seems, like anorganic sort of moment, right,
it's not again, it's not thatthe soft lens comes on, the
music plays and we've got ourteachable moment.
At the end It would fit withinthe universe, so it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And I guess to answer your overall question when I
say a thousand flowers bloom,yeah there's room on a medical
show for the kid getting rushedinto the emergency room.
He played with a gun and now wegot to save him right.
Okay and that's tragic, and wegot to talk to mom and dad and
they feel terrible and but okay,so that's one kind of story.
And then, but there's a wholedifferent kind of story for the
(37:44):
shows about bad guys, andthere's a whole different kind
of story for the shows aboutcops, and there's a whole
different kind of story for theshows about spies And ifían.
If these messages can findtheir way into, organically,
find their way into each ofthose shows because, like, in a
way that works for each of thoseshows, because, like you know,
(38:06):
watch true lies, there's a lotof gunplay, you know what I mean
.
Like it's a lot of like peoplerunning around with machine guns
.
We are not like portraying theactual effects of machine guns
on other human beings, right,which is, and that's kind of
what the franchise is about.
You know what I mean.
It's a cartoon.
On a certain level It's a.
Again, it's not a cartoon butit's a heightened universe,
(38:29):
right.
But there is room in a showlike that for showing gun safety
in the home And I think thatthat can make a difference.
So my hope would be that acampaign like this can really
encourage a diversity ofapproaches that aren't preachy
(38:51):
and that can meet people wherethey are.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
And to go back to your the 24 example, like
because we know media getseverywhere like can inspire
conversation, like somebody canmention at the dinner table,
maybe without it feeling like,ah, this is a political you know
.
I think now, if you cite thenews source that you come from,
people can almost they'll say,well, that's a red news source,
that's a blue news or whatever.
But you know, hey, on TV lastnight, the show that we all
(39:16):
enjoy, i thought it was coolthat this thing happened.
I liked their safe, i likedtheir message, i thought it was
funny that you know so-and-sogot his gun stolen out of his
truck and had you know therepercussions of that.
It opens up that conversationin a much lower stakes way,
which I think is reallyimportant too.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Absolutely, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well, and speaking of stories, where can people find
you and your stories?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Well, you can see true lies on CBS on Wednesdays
at 10 or Wednesdays at nine.
If you're watching the upcomingfinale And other shows, you can
see.
Most of my past shows are onHulu.
So yeah, burnose is on Hulu andAmazon Prime and The Gifted is
(40:03):
on Hulu And Turner and Hooch onDisney Plus.
I could go on and on.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Well, and I could go on and on with you too, so this
was wonderful.
Thank you so much, matt.
Hey wanna share with thepodcast.
Listeners can now get in touchwith us here at Red Blue and
Brady via phone or text message.
Simply call or text us at480-744-3452 with your thoughts,
questions concerns ideas, catpictures, whatever.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Thanks for listening.
As always, brady's lifesavingwork in Congress, the courts and
communities across the countryis made possible thanks to you.
For more information on Bradyor how to get involved in the
fight against gun violence,please like and subscribe to the
podcast.
Get in touch with us atBradyUnitedorg or on social at
BradyBuzz.
Be brave and remember.
(40:53):
take action, not size, whetheror not fear is, integrate or
forget.
This is the legal disclaimer, where I tell you
that the views, thoughts andopinions shared on this podcast
belong solely to our guests andhosts and not necessarily Brady
or Brady's affiliates.
Please note this podcastcontains discussions of violence
that some people may finddisturbing.
It's okay, we find itdisturbing.
Hey everybody, welcome back toanother episode of Red Bloom
(00:45):
Brady.
I'm one of your hosts, jj, andI'm so excited today as we
continue our Show Your Safetyseries, all where we're talking
to creative folks about how theyuse their storytelling
abilities to combat gun violence.
Today I was so lucky to speakwith Matt Nix.
He's a producer, a writer, adirector, an all-around
(01:05):
brilliant guy.
Matt was so kind to sit downwith us and talk about all of
the ways in which showing safestorage narratives on screen can
maybe help shift cultural normsand ultimately prevent gun
violence.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I am Matt Nix.
I'm a writer, producer andsometimes director in Los
Angeles, currently probably bestknown for creating and running
the show Burn Notice on USA someyears ago.
But since then I've done a lotof different shows.
I did a show called The Giftedon Fox It was an X-Men show that
(01:40):
ran for a couple years and I'mcurrently doing True Lies on CBS
.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
And your voice is in Burn Notice, So add voice actor
to that right.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yes, Yes, it actually is.
Yes, I'm the guy who says wegot a Burn Notice on you.
You're blacklisted.
I'm also the voice of thecomputer in True Lies.
So yes, my voice.
acting accounts are everywhere.
You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Everyone on the podcast is going to get to enjoy
it now too with us, And I'mwondering if you can maybe break
down why it is that you're inDC here today, beyond just to
enjoy the fact that it'sstarting to become DC summer.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, what brings me here today is that a year and a
half ago, i had a delightfulmeeting with some folks from the
Brady campaign.
That's the official name, theBrady campaign Just Brady.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Brady, kind of like Just Prince, we're just Brady.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Yeah, okay, all right , it's an organization named
Brady.
So, yes, i had a delightfulcoffee with some folks and
signed onto this campaign Andthen they said, hey, do you want
to come to DC?
And I was like, great, i'd loveto come to DC.
And so I got on a plane andhere I am.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah, and that campaign that you signed on for
that a lot of folks did iscalled the Show Your Safety
campaign And it's a really largeinitiative.
We're asking, i think, kind ofa lot of creative folks out
there in the world to kind ofmaybe modify or think about the
way it is that they're showingfirearms and firearms ownership
on TV And I wonder, or in otherforms of media, and I wonder if
(03:07):
you could maybe explain, as acreator, why that is something
that's actually important to you, kind of that adoption.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I think that One of the things that really appealed
to me about the campaign,because, I mean, I'll be
perfectly honest.
When I sat down with the folksfrom Brady, I was like I need
you to understand as I go intothis meeting.
You may not want to be talkingto me, right?
I am doing shows like I doadventure shows, I do action
(03:39):
shows, I do shows that involve alot of firearms, like it's just
, you know, cop shows.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Bernodas has a Wikipedia about the guns.
Oh yeah, Because it's spiesdoing spy stuff, of course.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And we were constantly like changing up
weapons and that kind of thing,and there was a lot of sort of
nitty gritty about weapons andsort of how they worked and you
know which ones were better forwhich applications And you know.
So I mean, one of a reallyexciting day on Bernodas was
when I found these.
(04:11):
There's a special ammunitionthat is used when shooting
electronics with a shotgun.
I was like, oh, there are theselittle titanium cubes and you
shoot them out of a shotgun andthey will destroy electronics.
I was like that's fantastic,i'm so excited.
So, but that's the sort ofthing that I've done a lot of.
And I was like, so if whatyou're looking for is people who
(04:34):
are like not doing that, orpeople are going to like not
write stories that involvefirearms and stuff, i'm not your
guy, right?
And they were like, no, no, no,that that's.
You know that that's not whatthis is about.
It's really about portrayinggun safety on television in a
way that you know will reachpeople.
And what was exciting for meabout that was I was like, yeah,
(04:57):
that I can totally do That Iwould love to do.
Right, that is fantasticBecause I think that, you know,
obviously it's a very chargedissue.
There's a lot of there's.
Sometimes it seems like there'snot a lot of middle ground, but,
like, how do you argue againstgun safety?
You know, i mean, it'sultimately that's a pretty
straightforward thing, and theappeal of saying, hey, we can do
(05:19):
for this what we did for safefor seatbelts or what we did for
cigarettes or that kind ofthing, just, you know, showing
best practices on television, itwas really appealing to me And
it was a way that I couldparticipate in this really
important issue in a way thatactually worked with what I was
doing.
I would also say that one thingthat was really exciting for me
(05:40):
is when I've, when I've seenthings in Hollywood about these
kinds of issues over the years,there's just been a lot of
preaching to the choir.
Right, it's like, oh really,this show that is obviously anti
gun is going to, you know, like, be even more anti gun.
(06:02):
OK, well, who are you reaching?
Like you're reaching the samepeople that they already believe
you that you don't need that,right.
And for me, like, as someonewith a big audience of I'm
burned out a certainly hugeaudience of gun owners, huge,
right, that was for me like, oh,this is a way that I can
(06:23):
participate and actually reachpeople where it might matter.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, you're not telling people who don't own a
gun to not go out and buy a gun.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's like here's how to store the gun you don't own
safely.
Right, we need to reach peoplewho own guns and care about guns
and, you know, encourage them.
And one of the things that Italked to the Brady folks about
was when I was doing burn notice.
torture was really big in thenews at the time.
And I kind of made a rule on theshow We don't do torture Right,
(06:57):
and so there was a bigvoiceover element on the show
and they would sort of explainhow things worked and stuff, and
so I would just have thecharacters talk about, you know,
in the voiceovers or betweeneach other, just the raw fact
that torture doesn't work Right.
It's like OK, knock yourselfout Right.
And for me it was always likelooking at shows where you know
(07:20):
you're questioning somebody andthen you shoot them in the leg
and then they give you theanswer.
If it was that simple, i thinkI don't think we'd really need
to question people.
It would just be like just geta dedicated leg shooting rig and
then they just give you all theanswers Right.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And so we always did deception or befriending or like
all of the things that peoplereally do to get information out
of the tactics that have beenshown to actually to work, as
opposed to the ones that we feelemotionally would work.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Exactly, yeah.
And the other thing is and thisis just a thing about Hollywood
One of the things about tortureis it's a really convenient way
to run us to write a scene,right, because you know how long
is the scene going to be.
It's going to be like a pageand a half, so there's going to
be like tell me, i'll never tellyou.
You have to tell me.
I'll never tell you, i'll shootyou in the leg, i don't care,
(08:13):
blam, all right, i'll tell you,right.
Okay, that's about a minute anda half right, and then you know
we're on to the next thing.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
It's a close.
it's a small set, don't need alot of dressing, Yeah exactly.
And I'm sure, narratively it'suseful, right, because it's bam.
Not only that, but also ah,this is the good character, this
is the bad character, like itsets up, there's a lot you can
do with that, right, but if it'snot helpful to the wider world,
i think that's the balance,right?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah, and I think we just and there was one of my
proudest moments on that showwas I was contacted by a Senate
staffer who had been people hadbeen in a congressional meeting
talking about the 24 scenario,right, and why torture might be
(08:57):
necessary in the 24 scenario.
And she came back with, well,what about the burn notice
scenario?
Like, if we're talking about TVshows, they did that same thing
and they didn't torture.
Why don't we do that?
right, i was like yes, exactlyright.
And so that was a case where Isaw, i mean, did we change the
world?
No, i mean like there was stilla huge torture scandal.
(09:19):
I didn't stop that.
But I did realize like okay,this is a thing that can make a
difference.
And you know, i mean it's funny.
Like when you talk about burnnotice, like nobody in Hollywood
seen burn notice, like they'revaguely aware of it, but like go
to a military base, oh yeah,they've seen it right.
(09:40):
Like that's the kind of thing.
And that's a great example oflike well, you know who should
hear the sort of like torturedoesn't work, message A bunch of
Hollywood liberals or a bunchof people on military bases, i'm
gonna go with the militarybases.
And so that was one of thereasons that I was so
enthusiastic about this.
I was like, yeah, like let medo it.
(10:00):
And so as soon as I got out ofthat meeting, i just got on the
phone with the folks from thetrue lies.
You know, when we were cause,we were building the sets And I
was like, guys, we're doing gunsafes, bunch of gun safes, and
so it was super fun.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And I, for folks who might not be aware of, i think,
kind of like TV in particular, ithink has had such a big impact
on norm change in the US for anumber of things.
Like you mentioned, smoking,you used to see people smoke
perpetually in TV shows.
They cut that out.
But just seeing characters,like beloved characters, put a
seatbelt on made people who gowell, no, that's not, i don't
(10:38):
need to wear it, it's not safe.
I'm safer if I don't have one.
Go well, no, if, like, myfavorite character does it, i'll
do it.
There's all these sort ofsafety things that I think come
out of what folks see whenthey're sitting at home at night
.
And you don't maybe you're notlike I know I don't consume a
lot of media in the evening.
When I'm sitting home to watchthe office for the 87th time,
i'm not doing it to like have alot of deep thoughts, it's
(10:59):
myself, i'm just enjoying it.
But there are things you learnand pick up from just what you
consume.
And so hey, he gets home, putsomething in a safe.
It's an easy connection that ifit's repeated enough and people
have a connection to thatcharacter, i could see folks
going out to buy one.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, although I would even go beyond that,
because certainly there arehabitual.
I would actually say an almostbetter example.
What I would aspire to iswhat's sold smoking to begin
with.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
Oh, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Because like okay, you go on TV and like people are
not smoking.
Okay how much is that changingbehaviors Right?
I would argue that one of thebiggest things that changed
behaviors around smoking wasshowing smoking as a thing that
was unhealthy.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Oh yeah, sure.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Or just like Here's your diseased lungs.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
But not even so much that like here's your diseased
lungs, because people can turnthat off.
People can, they can, justthat's not me.
I can't see my own lungs.
Maybe my lungs are like I don'twant to think about it.
But when smoking a big thingthat happened on TV is smoking
became a thing that low-lifesdid, smoking became more of kind
(12:19):
of a weakness, an indulgence.
But how did smoking getpopularized?
It was cool.
It was like the long draw on acigarette, you know, and the
slow exhale over the sexy eyes,right, and it became associated
with sexiness and masculinityand all of these things and all
(12:41):
of those images really weresuper powerful, right.
And so, yeah, i mean, i thinkdefinitely, you know, you can
kind of habituate people tocertain kinds of behaviors by
seeing it over and over.
Personally, i think we canaspire to something better,
(13:03):
right, the thing that I said tothe Brady folks when I was
visiting with them is like Ithink what you want is for
people to go to a gun show andbe like, hey, go to the gun safe
booth and say, hey, do you havethat cool gun safe that John
Wick had in the movie?
Speaker 1 (13:24):
right, I've had people on this podcast be like I
cannot wait to have like my ownJohn Wick, like walk-in safe.
Yeah, yeah, Like they want it.
that's the thing, yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
And so like that's.
So you've got the walk-in safe,you've got the cool biometric
lock, you know those kinds ofthings, because there's a
certain I mean, until we sort ofgrapple honestly with the kind
of macho fun of it, right, likethat's a lot of, is that right?
(13:53):
And I should say the macho funof gun culture, right.
And there's no reason that gunsafes can't be part of that,
right, a cool trigger lock canbe part of that, right.
And so I mean, another thingthat we were talking about was,
I think you know what's anobjection to gun safes?
(14:13):
Well, if there's an intruder, iwon't be able to get the gun
safe out in time.
I won't be able to get the gunout of the safe in time, right?
So one of the things that I setas a goal over the season of
True Lies was there's anintruder and he gets the gun out
of the gun safe in time, right,oh, okay, well, why?
Because he's a badass, becausehe's fast, he's awesome, like,
(14:36):
if you can't get your gun out ofyour gun safe in time, there's
something wrong with you, right,like you're not doing it, right
, like you that's the kind ofthing we want to model.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I appreciate it because your characters that are
engaging with these firearmsit's never like a novice
firearms right Like these areall people who definitely they
know their guns their good shots.
They know their ammo like theywould know kind of inside and
out what's good, what's not.
You know, they're not kind ofjust wandering in picking
something off the shelf, right.
(15:04):
So then to show them using it,and using it effectively, i
think then ties it to.
This is what cool people use,like this, yeah, like this is if
you want to be part of thisculture.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
This is an addendum to it And I think you know
fetishizing expertise andknowledge and skill, like that's
a real thing, right?
I mean, i think, as was thecase with cigarettes, what we
were just talking about, likethe, i think every time we
(15:35):
portray on television somebetterexternal victory, you
cannot take it off the shelf,you can't get it out the photo
yourself.
Some idiot who doesn't know howto use a gun bumbling with a
gun and looking stupid an angelgets its wings.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that's a really importantthing And because that's again
(15:57):
something to aspire to, you canwatch and be like.
I wanna be like that person.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
I don't wanna be the guy who just puts it my gun in
my back pocket and it falls outwhile I'm like like walking my
kid to school, right, I wanna bethe guy who has it
appropriately holstered, who'slicensed or who has it in a gun
lock inside my car Right,Because I've got a cool gun like
gun safe built into my car thatI've gotten put together.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, exactly, and that's, i mean, one of the
things that I mean.
actually, on Burned Out is oneof the things that we had a
chance to talk about.
I don't know that we ever didthis specifically, but it's
definitely the kind of thingthat we did is just have the
main character walk in to ahouse and be like every idiot
(16:41):
leaves a gun in a drawer.
You know what I mean.
And here's the hiding placethat everybody knows about,
right, and just go get andsuddenly, like all across
America, people are like oh wait, a second, am I that idiot?
They put the gun in an easilyaccessible drawer where someone
could really easily steal it,right, and that's an important
(17:01):
message to get out there.
I think you know more importantor probably more effective at
changing behavior than all sortsof, you know, kind of very
negative or you know like kindof on their face, emotionally
(17:21):
impactful things, like okay.
so again, i would say seeingthe scene where a kid comes in
and finds the gun in the drawerand is playing with the gun and
is, you know like it's horrible,it's the equivalent of the
black lungs for smoking, right,it's just people just shut down.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
People assume it won't be my kid it won't be, or
they just it can't handle it.
It's just too much, it's tooclose Yeah too close.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
But oh, cool people never keep their guns in drawers
.
That's a.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And it's snarky, so it's a joke.
It doesn't feel like it'sdirectly targeted at them, but I
should modify this And it alsoI think probably then signals
that you're credible or the showis a credible messenger.
Because I think about all of thelike the first responders of
law enforcement or military thatwe've had on the podcast or
that I know that are like youknow, if we're looking, if
they're going into a house andthey look for like it's gonna be
(18:13):
in the glove box, it's gonna beright next to the couch under
the thing It's gonna be, andthey know that those are like
the three spots that they'remost likely to be.
So when a show then points thatout, folks that are engaged in
that go yeah seems right yeah,seems fair.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, theyknow what they're talking about.
They didn't.
This isn't a writer's room Andyou know, in West LA that was
like ah, let's Google whatpeople do with guns Like this is
(18:36):
related to that.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And it's fine.
Yeah, it's funny.
Actually, I realized just howclosely people were paying
attention.
It was in the first year ofburn notice where we had to
shoot a scene where someone islooking out a window and they
identify a Mossad agent becausehe has a Desert Eagle right,
(18:59):
Which is the, you know, was theI'm not sure if it still is, but
it was then the sidearm of theMossad And then we actually had
to shoot the scene.
We didn't shoot the person atthe window and the POV where you
saw the person with the gun.
We didn't shoot them at thesame time.
(19:20):
And then when we had to shootthe guy with the gun, he was
walking across the street and aDesert Eagle is so big.
It's like a cannon right And thepoor actor was like I can't
walk with this, it's so hugeright, you have that Clint
Eastwood walk by default, causeit just yeah, yeah, desert.
Eagle should be carried by,like the rock can carry a Desert
(19:43):
.
Eagle like not just a regularskinny actor.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
And it would still look big in his hand, like it's
a large.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
So we gave him a baby Eagle, which is the smaller
version of a Desert Eagle, andthe mail we got for identifying
a baby Eagle as a Desert Eagleit was like I was like wow,
people really care.
But it did tell me like yeah,people are really watching this
and they're paying attention tothe firearms and like we need to
(20:12):
.
You know, keep it tight and payattention And you know,
thinking about a campaign likethis, it speaks to yeah no, we
you can have an influence.
It makes a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
And I mean I know that you talked about like so
you're already putting the setdesign together.
So you call and say we're justgonna add we want gun safes.
But it doesn't seem like thatwas a huge in the grand scheme
of things.
Essentially like essentially ina production like that, that's
a huge expenditure or huge timesinker that it's gonna
fundamentally kind of changewhat a character is by just
adding in.
You know that they lock theirgun up when they go at home.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
No, i mean honestly, like I can't.
It was to be honest.
I was like the Brady folks weresuper happy And I was like, wow
, it was like the easiest thingin the world.
I didn't have to build the gunsafe.
I literally just was like putit in gun safe.
Yeah, i mean honestly, it'slike guns on television don't
(21:05):
materialize out of thin air.
They have to be in places andthey have to be picked up from
those places, and so they mightas well be picked up from gun
safes, like why not?
Speaker 1 (21:17):
right Instead of a side table.
and just Yeah instead of a sidetable, exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
So we actually do have a side table gun safe which
has a biometric secret drawerthat has to be accessed, you
know, but you can't just openthe drawer And so so, yeah,
that's you know for us, becauseit's true lies and it's sort of
a heightened universe and stuff.
(21:42):
It was just kind of fun to belike, okay, so they've got this
cool one and this cool one, andthere were actually a couple
that we built that that wedidn't end up photographing.
So hopefully we get anotherseason and we can show them.
So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
And I think, too, what that then goes is that it
shows to folks out in the wideraudience as well that, like
there are all sorts of differentsafe storage options too that
you might not necessarily thinkof.
I think a lot of people picturelike an old timey loony tunes
safe and that that's it and thatis expensive And that's the end
, when really there's everythingfrom trigger locks that are
very inexpensive to biometricsafes that aren't that expensive
(22:18):
.
to like, you can go very hightech.
I want your side table.
I feel like that just soundsfun.
Like that would just be cool tohave.
I don't own a firearmpersonally at the moment, but
I'm like that would be kind offun just to have in the house
Have a little secret pouch.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Why not?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
And you know and too like would that make people
wanna build new, cooler ones aswell, like different storage
options?
I think that would be amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, and it's funny I didn't think about telling the
story, but it's true.
When I was a kid, my uncle whoI'm my middle name I was named
after him, and my sister's namedafter his, my aunt, his wife,
(23:00):
as is my daughter actually, Sothey were a very important part
of our family and it was mygreat uncle And I got a BB gun
for Christmas And I spent prettymuch my entire grade school
years like running around in thedesert shooting things with my
BB gun.
It was like a big deal to me.
(23:21):
But when I got the gun he satme down and basically would not
let me get up until I understoodyou never point a gun at
anything or anyone unless you'reintending to use it.
And we went over in greatdetail the importance of gun
(23:45):
safety with a BB gun andeverything.
And it was very impactful to meAnd I had a lot of respect for
him and I took it very seriously.
And You know I never pointed itat anybody, right, all of which
sort of.
I saw it in a different lightafter my uncle shot himself, but
(24:09):
yeah, and I was like oh, wow,that's.
I mean he meant it when he saidlike don't point it unless
you're planning on using it.
But I was like, wow, that's acase of like I didn't even know
that he had a fire.
You know, I knew that he'dstruggled with depression.
But yeah, i mean, it was athing that really hit home for
(24:31):
me where I was like, wow, that's, i wish I'd known and I'd been
able to sit down with him, youknow, and have that conversation
.
But yeah, so I guess I had avery impactful experience with
gun safety through him.
That got even more impactfulthrough his later actions.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well, i mean one thank you for like sharing and
disclosing, because I know likeit's never easy to just like
talk about it and then likeyou've got to live in that brain
space Again, like it all comesback up.
So thank you for sharing thatand like for being engaged in
this work now too.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I mean, i also think about as much as I was cautious
I was also a kid with a BB gunand, you know, did the odd dumb
thing And when I think aboutthat, also the consequences of
doing a dumb thing with a BB guntypically going to be painful
(25:26):
but not life changing, yeahRight, and that's the really sad
thing is like we're makingmistakes, so consequential you
know, and then with suicide it'slike, ah man, that bad day.
Man, that was really easy to.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
And you can't, yeah, you can't.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Then no take backs Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
And then it's the ripple effect too, of that
violence on everybody elsearound you that that keeps going
, which is certainly, i think,not what folks are intending.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
No.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And that moment at all.
It just that's the reality ofthem being gone from the world.
Right, and is that it hurts?
It hurts the folks who arebehind in dealing with it.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
Going back to the campaign, i think that, to the
extent that I mean, when youthink about, okay, what's going
to be effective, yeah, like,what's actually going to change
behavior, again, i think to theextent that you portray gun
(26:29):
ownership as a discipline, itinvolves some work, it involves
some expertise and some studyand some discipline and some
action and all of those things.
And responsibility, andresponsibility and maturity and
all of those things.
And so it's kind of like what Iwould hope is that I think that
(26:55):
for anybody that really wantsto be a gun owner, there's
nothing negative about that.
I mean, it's sort of like okay,so you're an expert and you're
disciplined and you're payingattention to these things and
stuff like that.
But I think that it can alsohave this other effect of people
like, ideally, people who arejust casual about it or not
really thinking about it, couldkind of look at the world of gun
(27:18):
owners as portrayed ontelevision or on in movies and
go.
You know that looks like toomuch work, right, i'm not really
that kind of person And sort ofkeeping guns, making guns not
feel like the sort of thing thatpeople like you do if that
makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah, it's that if there's a heavy responsibility
along with owning this thing orliving kind of in this culture
or doing this thing, that thereare steps that go along with it,
then it's not something to beentered into casually, like you
don't just go on a Friday, buyone, come home, bam, you're done
and that's the end all.
And it's also, i think,important because it's not
talking down to gun owners, asyou pointed out, because the gun
(28:00):
owners, they're experts.
They're, i think, if I remembercorrectly, multiple characters.
They speak multiple languages.
They just know an incredibleamount of stuff beyond just the
gun stuff too, right?
So it's that these are folkswho are very elite and very
special and like, if you wannabe part of that as well you can,
but you also have to beresponsible, do all the stuff.
(28:22):
Yeah, you gotta do all the sidepiece and the side work that
goes with it.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, i remember when I was a kid I saw I'd never
seen the movie Deliverance.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah, like I saw Deliverance and I was like, oh
my God, that is like it was sucha macho fantasy for me.
and I was like mom, dad, iwanna take bow lessons, i wanna
learn how to you know.
and they were like sure, and sothey, you know, signed me up
and I think I did two and I waslike this is so hard.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
There's math involved .
Yeah, my fingers hurt And myfingers hurt and oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
okay, and I think that, like that would be a
really good model.
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Right, like if we could achieve that for American
gun ownership, that'd just bemore like owning a bow and arrow
.
Like, oh yeah, it's somethingif you're committed to it, if
it's something that you reallywanna do, if you're gonna like
put in the time and put in theeffort and like really learn to
do this thing, great, knockyourself out.
But like you, don't keep a bowand arrow in your like in your
(29:24):
purse, just in case you know youdon't keep it in your glove
compartment And then, like thereare very few bow and arrow road
rage incidents in the UnitedStates, because it's just a pain
in the ass.
do you know what I mean?
It's a lot to learn.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
And there's a skill in the shooting of it.
Yeah, i never thought of itfrom the bow and arrow angle,
but I always think of it as kindof like the equivalent of like
it's like dog ownership.
Like if you own a really bigdog, like if you own a German
Chepard or King Corso.
Like you can't take your doganywhere but you gotta make sure
you've trained it well, youknow what you're doing.
It's expensive, there's upkeep.
You should probably take someclasses before you get it.
(29:59):
Should you own one if you livein a like in a studio apartment
in DC?
Probably not.
It's not great, yeah, but Ithink actually that kind of
thing.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
But when you think about that, i think that there's
there are kind of two sides tothat right, because I think that
a lot of people can hear thatkind of message as this sort of
like permission.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Oh yeah, that you need.
I can see that.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
You can only have this if you jump through these
hoops that.
I say you need to jump throughright, and I think people's
instinctive response to that isscrew you, i don't want to jump
through your hoops.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And who are you to tell me what hoops there are?
Yeah, who declared you queen ofGerman Shepherd?
Yeah, literally I can?
Speaker 2 (30:37):
I'm just going to go buy a German Shepherd.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I'll do what I want with my German Shepherd.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
This is the United States of America.
I'm sure there's some GermanShepherd amendment in the
Constitution.
I haven't read it recently, Butthe, but I think that to the
extent that that message can beflipped on its head right And
the sort of positive attributesof responsible German Shepherd
(31:02):
ownership can be showcased Like,oh yeah, like you wouldn't want
to be a German Shepherd ownerwithout knowing all the German
Shepherd things.
There's a certain kind of personwho is a German Shepherd owner,
who approaches it a certainkind of way, And you know that
is something to be aspired to.
Like you should, but like youdon't just buy a German Shepherd
(31:24):
.
What are you crazy?
Speaker 1 (31:25):
That's, it's going to be folks within that community,
then can self police to likewhy are you coming to the dog
park if you don't follow allthese rules and do all these
things?
We've just messed up the SEO onthis episode, so terribly all
these dog lovers are going to belike.
I was promised Westminster dogshow on Google and I got gun
violence instead.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Well, I did Turner and Hooch that that had firearms
and dogs.
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Full seven degrees of separation.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I will say that was actually quite a learning
experience, which was like dogsreally have to be trained to be
okay with being around firearms.
We had a lot of very quiet gunson that show because the dogs
did not like the guns And theysmell.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Dogs, not fans, Not a fan of it And not a fan of gun
violence in general.
I would say Dogs are.
They're a peaceful, lovingcreature.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
They're peaceful, I mean they can be trained in
other directions, although,oddly, the dogs that we had on
that show could not be trained.
They were just like they didwhatever they wanted.
They were yeah.
So.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Well, I'm sorry for possibly the negative turn Hooch
flashback that I just caused Inthe time that we have left.
I'm just curious where do youthink ultimately this is going
to go though?
Like, do you see thisinitiative even in your own work
or kind of more broadly inmedia?
Do you think you're going tosee more and more folks showing
kind of, or modeling,responsible gun ownership Or, as
(32:43):
you pointed out, like maybemodeling irresponsible gun
ownership but as a negativecharacter, flaw right, like
that's what this character thatyou clearly don't want to
emulate is doing?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, i mean, i think my hope is that I really feel
like the potential of thiscampaign is that a thousand
flowers can bloom and that, andwhat I would hope is that,
moving forward, people canreally embrace the idea that it
doesn't look the same on everyshow, right?
(33:13):
But I think that there isdefinitely a narrative out there
And this could soundself-serving, but I think it's
true.
I think there's a narrative outthere that, like, there's a
certain kind of message aboutgun safety that is the right
kind of message and a certainkind of scene.
(33:34):
That is the right kind of scene.
And it's a kind of scene thatappeals very much to sort of
coastal sensibilities and itappeals to non-gun owners and
that kind of thing.
And I think that people seethat for what it is.
(33:56):
It's people not like mepreaching to me about how I
should live my life And this isjust not a good time for that in
the United States.
It doesn't work right.
It's the smolty music plays, andthen they're like I'm being
pandered or lectured, i'm beinglectured, i'm being lectured too
exactly, and that, i think, isbecause, honestly, when I sat
(34:18):
down with Brady, i was likethey're going to not like what I
have to say.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You get a brochure.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
I'll get a brochure and they're just going to be
like no, because I was basicallylike I know what they're going
to want, right, they're going towant me to do a scene that I
can never do on True Lies.
It's an action comedy, right,for that matter.
On True Lies, famously, I thinkArnold Schwarzenegger in the
movie killed like 90 people inthe first scene.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
He's hanging from a helicopter.
It doesn't translate as wellwith-.
It's not a gun safety movieright.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
And the show itself exists in this heightened action
universe, right.
But realizing that there was away that we could participate in
that was really important.
And one of the things that Isaid in that initial meeting was
here's a scene that I think youreally want out there And it's
(35:21):
a hard scene to pitch right Andit's not going to fit in with
the sensibilities of, kind ofthe traditional gun safety Brady
campaign like that kind ofthing.
It's not going to fit in withthose sensibilities.
But I think it would make areal difference, which is if you
(35:41):
took a show an anti-hero show,right.
If you took a show a BreakingBad or a Sons of Anarchy or
something like that, right Andyou had a bad guy discover that
another bad guy had stored a gunwhere a kid could get it, and
(36:03):
then you have the responsiblebad guy kick the living shit out
of the irresponsible bad guyand say, basically no man ever
stores a gun where a kid couldfind it.
And if you ever do that again,you won't just be swallowing
your teeth, you're dead.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Breaking Bad did that with like opioid access?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
You can make and use all the meth you want, but you
don't put it where a child canuse it And it's a pivotal moment
for a character's developmentof like, oh like.
It gets the audience on hisside because there's honor in
this person, Exactly, and it's amacho approach And it's not
preachy.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
I think it's accurate right.
But you know and I was sayinglike I can't defend that I'm not
necessarily pro bad guys makingother bad guys swallow their
teeth, but I do think thatthat's a message and an approach
that kind of meets people wherethey live.
(37:05):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
That that's like okay , well, And it's very believable
because it's it seems, like anorganic sort of moment, right,
it's not again, it's not thatthe soft lens comes on, the
music plays and we've got ourteachable moment.
At the end It would fit withinthe universe, so it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
And I guess to answer your overall question when I
say a thousand flowers bloom,yeah there's room on a medical
show for the kid getting rushedinto the emergency room.
He played with a gun and now wegot to save him right.
Okay and that's tragic, and wegot to talk to mom and dad and
they feel terrible and but okay,so that's one kind of story.
And then, but there's a wholedifferent kind of story for the
(37:44):
shows about bad guys, andthere's a whole different kind
of story for the shows aboutcops, and there's a whole
different kind of story for theshows about spies And ifían.
If these messages can findtheir way into, organically,
find their way into each ofthose shows because, like, in a
way that works for each of thoseshows, because, like you know,
(38:06):
watch true lies, there's a lotof gunplay, you know what I mean
.
Like it's a lot of like peoplerunning around with machine guns
.
We are not like portraying theactual effects of machine guns
on other human beings, right,which is, and that's kind of
what the franchise is about.
You know what I mean.
It's a cartoon.
On a certain level It's a.
Again, it's not a cartoon butit's a heightened universe,
(38:29):
right.
But there is room in a showlike that for showing gun safety
in the home And I think thatthat can make a difference.
So my hope would be that acampaign like this can really
encourage a diversity ofapproaches that aren't preachy
(38:51):
and that can meet people wherethey are.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
And to go back to your the 24 example, like
because we know media getseverywhere like can inspire
conversation, like somebody canmention at the dinner table,
maybe without it feeling like,ah, this is a political you know
.
I think now, if you cite thenews source that you come from,
people can almost they'll say,well, that's a red news source,
that's a blue news or whatever.
But you know, hey, on TV lastnight, the show that we all
(39:16):
enjoy, i thought it was coolthat this thing happened.
I liked their safe, i likedtheir message, i thought it was
funny that you know so-and-sogot his gun stolen out of his
truck and had you know therepercussions of that.
It opens up that conversationin a much lower stakes way,
which I think is reallyimportant too.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Absolutely, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well, and speaking of stories, where can people find
you and your stories?
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Well, you can see true lies on CBS on Wednesdays
at 10 or Wednesdays at nine.
If you're watching the upcomingfinale And other shows, you can
see.
Most of my past shows are onHulu.
So yeah, burnose is on Hulu andAmazon Prime and The Gifted is
(40:03):
on Hulu And Turner and Hooch onDisney Plus.
I could go on and on.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Well, and I could go on and on with you too, so this
was wonderful.
Thank you so much, matt.
Hey wanna share with thepodcast.
Listeners can now get in touchwith us here at Red Blue and
Brady via phone or text message.
Simply call or text us at480-744-3452 with your thoughts,
questions concerns ideas, catpictures, whatever.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Thanks for listening.
As always, brady's lifesavingwork in Congress, the courts and
communities across the countryis made possible thanks to you.
For more information on Bradyor how to get involved in the
fight against gun violence,please like and subscribe to the
podcast.
Get in touch with us atBradyUnitedorg or on social at
BradyBuzz.
Be brave and remember.
(40:53):
take action, not size, whetheror not fear is, integrate or
forget.
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