January 5, 2024 • 42 mins
When Jonathan Brocco, a school administrator, got involved in gun violence prevention, it was after a mass shooting rocked his school community — one of his students had lost a brother in the 2018 Waffle House mass shooting. Sadly, soon Jonathan would be directly impacted, when his father Charlie passed from firearm suicide in February of 2019.
In the wake of that combined trauma, however, Jonathan continues to give of himself, sharing his message of the urgent need for sweeping reform. Together with hosts Kelly and JJ, Jonathan explains not only his own loss (and what he wishes everyone knew about firearm suicide) but also the emotional and practical challenges educators and administrators face as they grapple with the repercussions of school shootings. Jonathan then details how the toll of gun violence extends beyond the immediate tragedy; it's a public health crisis that leaves a ripple effect across entire communities — and what you can do to help stop it.
Further reading:
Is Arming Teachers a Solution? (This is Nashville)
How to Support Survivors and People Impacted by Gun Violence (Brady)
"Forget about Making a Hashtag, Let's Throw All the Guns in a Trash Bag" (Natrix Dream/Akilah DaSilva Foundation)
'Oh my God, not again': Mom of Waffle House shooting victim deals with other son shot(Nashville 5)
'Help Us Stop the Attacks': Educators Urge Action on Gun Violence(National Education Association)
For more information on Brady, follow us on social media @Bradybuzz or visit our website at bradyunited.org.
Full transcripts and bibliographies of this episode are available at bradyunited.org/podcast.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255.
In a crisis? Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a Crisis Counselor 24/7.
Music provided by: David “Drumcrazie” Curby
Special thanks to Hogan Lovells for their long-standing legal support
℗&©2019 Red, Blue, and Brady
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is the legal disclaimer, where I tell you
that the views, thoughts andopinion shared on this podcast
belong solely to our guests andhosts and not necessarily Brady
or Brady's affiliates.
Please note this podcastcontains discussions of violence
that some people may finddisturbing.
It's okay, we find itdisturbing too.
Hey, everybody, welcome back toanother episode of Red, blue
(00:45):
and Brady.
I'm one of your hosts, jj.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I'm Kelly, your other host.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And today, kelly and I are excited about the reword
for this episode.
Kelly, kelly and I aredisheartened that we are
dropping this episode when weare.
We had sat down just a few daysago with the great Jonathan
Brueco to discuss the reality ofbeing a survivor and an
(01:10):
educator, and our hopes and ourdreams for 2024.
And then this episode is comingout on the fifth day of January
.
We are five mass shootings deepalready in the US, one of the
most recent being at a highschool in Perry, iowa.
And I am mad, kelly, I'm reallymad.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
No, like, let's just, we just have to keep it real.
Like we are five days into anew year and there are some
people that rang in 2024 onDecember 31st, and now they're
not here because of gun violenceand we're upset about it, and
I'm sure if you're listening tothis, you're upset about it too.
And when we recorded thisepisode originally we thought it
(01:55):
would take we would release ita little bit later.
But because John talks aboutviolence both in a school and
outside of a school and being asurvivor and also the experience
of firearm suicide, he in a wayis like a microcosm of the
problem, and so we are releasingthis episode a little bit
sooner.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And while we loved Jonathan, we could have talked
to him forever and we ended theepisode on such a hopeful note
that I still am really hopefulfor Listen to the end.
Jonathan has some, somesolutions and some action steps
we can all take here.
That that I am taking to heart.
I am just reminded, as I waswhen we first recorded this with
him, that we are asking so muchof our educators and so much of
our students, and then just somuch of people living under an
(02:37):
epidemic of gun violence and man, I really hope 2024 gets better
.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And I think that, to your point, jj, we are being
honest about being a littledisheartened, but we also know
that there are we can do thingsto make 2024 better.
So, if you're feelingdisheartened, and listen to this
.
If you're feeling amped up andready to go, listen to this,
because we can acknowledge thatthis is really messed up and we
also are trying to do the workto make sure that we prevent
(03:06):
this.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Agreed my name is Jonathan Brocco.
I'm a school administrator herein Nashville, tennessee, also a
gun violence advocate, who'sbeen working in that space for a
couple of years now and been aneducator for about 10 years.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah Well, jj and I have tremendous respect for
educators, especially in theclimate that we're in right now,
and you know you talked aboutin addition to being an educator
and a gun violence preventionadvocate.
You come to this work from manyof those perspectives and
including you've lost a familymember to gun violence and I'm
wondering if you could share thestory of how you got into this
(03:46):
work.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Absolutely yeah.
So I was teaching at a middleschool here in Nashville prior
to becoming an administrator andthere was a student that
attended the school named AldaneBrooks.
He just an awesome kid.
He was in sixth grade at thetime and I taught eighth.
So we kind of only interacted,you know, in the hallways and
you know extracurriculars, butwe got to know each other pretty
(04:08):
well.
And then there was a massshooting in Nashville at a
waffle house in April of I thinkit was April 22nd 2018.
And he lost his older brotherin that mass shooting.
His other brother was alsothere with him.
They were just having a mealcelebrating a music video they
had just released and it youknow it just caused an insane
(04:32):
amount of turmoil for theirfamily.
Like, I mean, how do you Idon't even know how how you kind
of square that.
You know it's just like you'reout celebrating living life?
He released his music was wasuh was gun violence awareness
music.
Like he talked about the impactin his rap lyrics about losing
friends, about why access toguns is a problem, and then to
(04:55):
lose his life in a mass shootingis just unimaginable.
And so their family kind ofbanded together.
Our school community reallyrallied around them and they,
they, they established afoundation called the Akilah De
Silva Foundation, which is aimedat educating the public about
the issues of gun violence andthe ripple effects associated
(05:16):
with that.
So that was in 2018.
We kind of got involved.
I started attending some oftheir rallies, some of their
work and then, in February of2019, I found out one night that
my father had had ended hislife with a firearm and so that
you know, really really tossedour family into an intense
(05:38):
amount of trauma and grief.
And you know, that experiencemade me start looking at the
issue of guns and gun violencein a completely different light.
And from there I remember wewere having dinner with
Shondelle Brooks all Dane'smother and their family in 2021.
And she said a phrase thatreally sat with me and made me
(06:02):
think about this in a newperspective.
She said it just was talking tous and she said you know us
survivors of gun violence.
And that was when it hit me like, oh, my family, we're survivors
too.
And I think that that kind ofreflected to me in that moment
how deep the sickness of gunviolence is in our country and
(06:27):
made me start seeing it as apublic health crisis, just to
think that, like I had lostsomeone for almost two years at
this point and I had neverreally seen myself as a survivor
of gun violence until two yearslater when someone else who
also lost someone, you know, toa firearm, set it to me.
So she asked me to join theirfoundation as a board member,
(06:51):
focusing on educational outreachand a scholarship program that
they started in memory of Akilah, and so I've been doing that
for a little over a year now.
But yeah, that's kind of how Igot into the work and why I stay
in it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Well, and before we move on, I wanna thank you for
sharing, because I feel likethis is and Kelly can back me up
here this is the really awkwardand hard part of our work, like
not just on the podcast, butworking in this space and gun
violence prevention, because todo this work, we have to ask
survivors to give a lot ofthemselves and other families by
telling their stories, I think,to make policymakers and folks
(07:28):
out in the world actuallyrealize that this is a thing
that happens.
This isn't a statistic.
This is your dad, these areyour students, and so I
appreciate you a lot and I justwanna appreciate, like you and
your family, for being willingto step forward and speak about
this, and even like you and yourschool community.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
No, thank you for acknowledging that and thank you
for providing us with the spaceto open up and to share these
things, because, like any issuewe've ever seen in history, it
doesn't get better if people aresilent about it.
And so for me, I really thinkabout.
I was a voidant of tellingpeople how he died.
(08:10):
At first, there was a immenseamount of shame and feelings
that came associated withgrowing up in the South and the
mindsets that may exist incommunities around issues like
suicide and the topic of gunviolence.
So doing all the personalhealing work to get to a space
(08:30):
to share and then have an outletto come, outlets to come talk
about this is so important.
So I appreciate y'all as well.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Something that your experiences get at is the fact
that gun violence obviously wehave the statistics about people
who are shot or people who areinjured, but that doesn't really
convey the full scope, and youtalked about with Akilah that,
what you saw with his family andeven your own experiences
honoring his memory.
And then you also talk aboutwith your father some of the
(09:00):
ripple effects, and so I'mwondering if you could, to the
extent that you're comfortable,share with us.
You already talked about shameand stigma, but what life was
like for you and your mom in theaftermath and some of the
things that we don't necessarilysee in statistics but are very
real impacts of gun violence.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
No, absolutely.
I think one thing was losing mydad in this way was so
challenging for our family, butit hit me that it was a
challenge for, like, the broadercommunity that he worked in and
lived into.
So he was a.
(09:38):
He was just a great human being, so positive, so happy, and he
was a Grammy-winning recordingengineer Like.
He had a really awesome lifeand I remember when, at his
memorial, there being likesomewhere between 200, and 500,
and 300 people that came to thismemorial and just being there
(09:58):
in that space and being shockedlike, wow, what an impact he
made, and I think it was also areminder of just what a force of
good energy and light he was toso many.
And so for our family it left amassive, a massive hole, and my
mom got diagnosed with cancersix months after he passed, and
(10:21):
so I had to step into acaregiver role.
My brother was in physicianassistant school in Knoxville at
the time, and so we're all justtrying to move forward with
life as normal as you, asnormally as you can, but life is
never normal again after aftersomething like that, and so we
all began you know intensetrauma and grief, counseling and
(10:43):
unpacking our healing in thatway and leaning on each other
and community members that youknow supported us and you know
that's why we're able to sitkind of comfortably and talk
about it today.
But it's the ripple effects.
You can't really count thembecause you still are learning
them.
I'm still learning them.
Today there's a new thing thathappens and I go, oh you know
(11:06):
he's not here and someone kindof do that, and so then I'll
step up and take care ofwhatever it may be, and my
brother will when he can as well.
But yeah, it's I.
We kind of talk about it in thesense of it's like this rolling
experience.
It never really stops.
I remember, you know, we hadthe last February it was four
years since he had been gone andjust thinking through how to
(11:31):
support my mom with all thetreatments that she's been going
through.
You know how to be a, you knowa brother.
And then also, you know, giveyourself the space when the
grief comes up, because it justcomes up at random times and
it's so strange because in oneday you might experience this
emotional high from a great lifeachievement and then that night
be at home and grief hits youbecause he's not there to
(11:54):
celebrate it with you, and soyeah it's.
It's never ending.
It's the word that I would say.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I feel like, in some ways, what you're speaking to is
just the grief experience,right, it's like you're staying
at the ocean.
You don't know when the wavesare gonna be big, you know
they'll be small, you just knowyou're gonna kind of get wet,
but you can't.
You can't plan for those likewaves of sadness.
But I feel like and I don'tknow if, kelly, if you've had
(12:20):
the same experience, but throughthis podcast, I feel like when
we're talking to people who'veexperienced this particular
grief, they're like gun violence.
Loss is its own special kind ofgrief and I don't know if that's
because, if it's a grief that'smaybe not discussed openly, I
don't know if it's because it'sa grief that's become
politicized.
I don't know if it's a griefthat you know like there's never
(12:41):
a break from it.
In America there's always,every day, you're seeing in the
news this violence again.
So I don't, I don't know why.
I don't know like all grief ishard.
I don't I don't want todiscount all grief or all or any
loss, but it's just like thisseems like a different Sort of
loss or pain.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yeah, and I and you know, and I've never wanted to,
you know that's like it's such agood point because I've often
said that to people where youare dealing with grief, you're
dealing with loss, and thenthere's these other layers to it
, right, there's the layer ofsuicide and then there's the
layer of gun violence, and sothe experience of what it's been
like to navigate kind of allthree of those phases has been
(13:23):
really, I think, unique, youknow, to individuals that go
through this, and so you knowsome examples I've kind of run
into or people coming up to meand you know I can't believe he
did that.
I just and that's and that likejust I'm just at a grocery store
on a Saturday running tosomeone I haven't seen in 13
years, since I was a kid orwhatever another, coming up and
(13:45):
I Can't believe this and I can'tbelieve that, you know, and and
even really insensitivecomments about, you know, the
preservation of Gun rights, it'sjust it's it's kind of
mind-numbing.
And so, yeah, there's, there'smany additional layers to this
experience and kind of changes,what those waves kind of feel
(14:05):
like, because, you know, I mighthave a conversation, that's,
I'm having a good day, I'm notreally grieving, but someone
comes in from one of thoseangles and then you find
yourself back in that kind ofspace and it kind of throws you
off a Little bit.
So, yeah, it's a really goodpoint and it's something that I
think the broader communityshould reflect on.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And I think also to the fact that you came into this
activism before you lost yourdad because of another trauma
You're going through.
Like you know, we've had manyconversations about what is a
survivor and what to findsomeone as a survivor, but I
want to say that I personallythink that to be an educator and
to know that one of your kidsor one of your students has lost
Family members or is goingthrough that trauma, to live in
a community where there's been amass shooting, to be an
(14:48):
educator where you're worriedabout Violence at your school or
violence that's impacting yourstudents I Feel like that makes
a survivor, and I feel likeeducators or teachers in the US
already take on so many burdensfor their community and For
their kids.
You know, if you're a teacher,you love your kids, and so
that's already present too, I'msure.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Absolutely it's.
It's kind of changed how Ithink about my work One when I
when all day lost his brother,to when when my dad passed, and
then when covenant happenedrecently, you know, just this
past year in Nashville.
Every day, literally every dayof my job, is impacted by guns
and gun violence.
(15:29):
If I'm in the hallway and Ihear, you know, there's like a
operations team member workingin a chair falls over and hits
the ground like my head,immediately goes to the protocol
for what to do in a lockdown,that's.
That's just, you're walkingthrough your day trying to just
educate, support teachers andyou know, and be a support for
(15:50):
kids and their families and thenat every turn you're like kind
of, you know, expecting orpreparing for some, some, that,
some horrible thing to happenand and that what.
What really gets me is like how,nor like how normalized this
issue has become.
What, why, why is death by gunsand guns such a normalized
(16:13):
experience for so many of usthat you know, I'm just a school
administrator and Every hour ofevery day there's a thought
tied back to the safety of mystudents in connection to gun,
guns and gun violence, and it'syou know.
And then when I have a studentwho's dealing with a social,
emotional issue, then you knowbeing supportive of like
(16:39):
respective, of the family andtheir rights, but also like, do
they have access to things thatcan hurt them at home, and
trying to like make them awareof that in the process.
It never really stops in mywork either, and it's really our
teachers are very aware of it,and I don't want to use the word
(16:59):
disturbing, but it isdisturbing.
Like you know, covenanthappened and we were back at
work the next day.
Every teacher in Nashville waswith the exception of covenant,
and rightfully so.
But why didn't we stop as acommunity?
And why is that the expectation?
You know, mass shooting aftermass shooting, these individuals
(17:21):
just have to keep going and itdoesn't really make a lot of
sense to me.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I think it's really telling that oftentimes, I think
the perception can be if you'rean educator, then gun violence
will only impact you if ithappens at your school and what
you shared is if something likecovenant happens or in the case
of the Waffle House shooting, ifsomething happens in the
community, that still willimpact you as an educator, as
(17:50):
you're going in and now you'retrying to teach students who
don't live in a bubble and whosee these things and they're
supposed to think about geometryor Shakespeare or something,
but they've just seen somethingthat their brains may not be
able to handle, because even asadults it's really hard to
handle.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
No, absolutely.
You know when you're likewalking through classroom to
classroom after an event hashappened in your community,
because even when there areshootings in the neighborhood
that may have led to the loss ofa student's family member I've
even lost I lost four formerstudents last year to gun
(18:28):
violence alone.
I mean you're just walkingthrough reminding kids why
they're safe, why they're safe,why they're safe, and at a
certain point you just go.
Why do I feel like I'm?
Why do we as teachers, asschool leaders, feel like we're
the only ones really supportingthese students or reminding them
why they're safe?
Why isn't their leadershipexternally above us in the
(18:53):
legislature?
You know doing things to showkids we're going to keep you
safe.
It's just troubling to me whenyou're faced with tragedy after
tragedy and the solutioncontinues to be more guns
that'll fix the problem, and sothat really really is a.
This is a challengingexperience, I think, for all of
us.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And I imagine this has to be so difficult because
already when you're teachingduring COVID or like in the
midst of a global pandemic, oryou know after now that kids are
back in school in person, forthe most part we don't know what
effect that has had on kids andtheir educational experience
fully yet we won't for quite awhile.
But we also don't know whatthis amount of gun violence that
(19:36):
these kids are confronting,what that's doing to them or
what it's going to continuedoing to them, because I know as
an adult it's not good for meto be constantly seeing this
amount of violence out in theworld.
So I can't imagine for a kidthat it's good.
But it's become so normalizedand so kind of baked into the
(19:57):
life experience not just of kidsbut of teachers and just people
in the world Going throughschool.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Oh, 100%.
I've been really astounded tothat.
You know, one of the ideasthat's pitched around this is is
arming teachers, where wedidn't sign up for that, and
Tennessee and other states inthe South have really
demonstrated that they don'ttrust us to pick the curriculum
and books for our kids, but theywant us to carry guns to keep
(20:27):
them safe, and I think that'sjust so detached from reality
and speaks to this dystopia thatyou're talking about.
An interesting story kind ofconnected to this.
I had a really good friend and Igrew up in the South and I was,
just to be transparent, I wasnot politically aligned with
those people that I went toschool with, and so a good.
(20:50):
But I made a lot of friends andmet some really great people,
and a guy that I consider myselfto be pretty close with heard a
radio interview I was on wherewe were discussing arming
teachers, and he sent me amessage about the only thing
that can stop a bad guy with agun is a good guy with a gun,
(21:11):
and I was like, let me approachthis with curiosity and get into
just some discussion, and whatwas so interesting to me is the
point that resonated with him,that made him see where I was
coming from was when I saidimagine a teacher who is one of
the people in the buildingthat's required to carry the gun
and let's say an intruder comesinto the building and let's say
(21:34):
your kid were in that room,would you want that teacher
leaving that group of kids to gofind the intruder?
And he was like, oh no, I wantthem to be there with my kid and
keep them safe.
I'm like right, because that'sbasic security protocol.
Any security expert that came into consult would tell you you
never leave kids alone in thesesituations.
Right, but what if you're thatperson who has to carry and the
(21:56):
intruder comes in?
The whole idea makes no senselogistically or, to me, even
morally.
But that's separate.
But just if you just look atthe basic idea and how it would
work in a day to day scenario,it doesn't work.
It doesn't make anyone saferand so, yeah, we just have to.
(22:18):
We just live this reality ofdealing with potential tragedy
as normalcy and that's justagain really disturbing.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I mean the point that you just made there about basic
security protocol.
I think it's so important for acouple of reasons.
One it just goes to show howimportant it is to have your
perspective in this space,because so often people who are
making policies around schoolsor campuses I haven't ever been
on a campus or other than whenwe were students ourselves but
at the same time, I know thatone of the problems is that
(22:51):
being an educator is extremelytime consuming and it's like
hours and hours outside of theschool hours, and so then, for
you to be doing gun violence orintervention work on top of it
is a huge sacrifice, and I'mwondering what misperceptions
have you seen, maybe from peoplein your community that maybe
you don't align with thempolitically, or maybe you do,
but what misperceptions dopeople have about being a gun
(23:14):
violence survivor or a gunviolence prevention advocate
that you kind of would love toclear up?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, I think the first one is that people who are
aligned to my values and mybeliefs they think like we wanna
take away everybody's guns andget rid of everybody's guns.
That's not what we're operatingfrom.
It's something that wecontinuously message is we're
not here to step on someone'sconstitutional right.
(23:41):
Rather, we're trying to supporteach other and our community to
look at it in different waysand understand that the easier
the access is, the more problemsyou're going to encounter and
experience, and so I think aboutred flag laws as being
important.
(24:04):
I think of the issue of gunshows being a massive issue.
There are countless documentedexperiences of kids going to gun
shows and leaving with guns andhaving no problem purchasing
them.
There are so many rippleeffects associated with easy
access easy and open access thathave led to the problems that
we experience as a society, andso we wanna do something about
(24:29):
that.
And I think that that's animportant thing, because,
growing up here, while I did notnecessarily grow up in a family
where guns were present becauseit was a tradition of some sort
, we had them because there wasan experience that made my
parents feel very unsafe, sothey purchased one and, just
(24:50):
like 85% of these situations, mydad ended up using it on
himself, and so I think thatwhen you look at the statistics,
60% of gun deaths areself-inflicted gun shots.
When you think about themassive impact that this open
and easy access has made, that'swhat we're advocating for,
(25:11):
that's what we're trying to dosomething about and make each
other kind of think differentlyabout and say that there are
other ways to approach thisproblem.
I think about what if, when mydad had had a heart attack and a
stroke prior to him starting tostruggle mentally and
physically, and so his work wasimpacted, his purpose, his
(25:34):
overall well-being wasdramatically changed.
What if, when, at any point intime where he was going through
these massive life changes, ifsomeone a medical professional,
a friend, someone said to him ushey, like, are you okay?
You're going through a lot.
One possible thing that mighthappen to you from this
(25:57):
experience is depression and doyou have anything access to
anything at home that could hurtyou?
And just like supporting eachother in a more holistic way, I
think is a very possible thingand achievable thing, and so I
think that's.
One of the biggestmisconceptions is that gun
safety advocates and gun controladvocates people often think
(26:21):
we're coming for their guns, andthat's not what the reality of
the situation is.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I think you articulated that really
beautifully because I know, whenI've had success talking with
family and friends maybe whodon't agree with what they think
that I'm for because I work ingun violence prevention when we
sit down and actually starthaving a conversation, it's
sharing stories like yours andsharing the reality of the
(26:48):
actual statistics that are outthere, not like a talking point
that they've heard maybe from,like, gun lobby folks.
That's really helpful and again,that's why I'm just I'm so
thankful that there are folkslike you who are willing to
share because, I'll be honest, Ithink it's using those stories
that really hit folks, becausewe talked about this a lot, like
(27:09):
no one ever thinks necessarilythat it's going to happen and
yet a lot of Americans whohaven't experienced it are just
kind of almost waiting for gunviolence to happen.
As you said, you're walkingdown the hall, you're waiting.
You hear a lot of noise.
You expect it.
I go to movie theaters.
I'm waiting.
I see people having a road ragein the street.
(27:29):
I'm waiting for somethingterrible to happen and I don't
understand how, as you said,like we got to this dystopian
point.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the.
I was prepping for a pressconference earlier this year
when the legislative cycle washappening here in Tennessee
actually the special session.
They brought everyone backtogether to do something about
what happened at Covenant andthey did nothing.
And I remember going to speakat this press conference and I
(27:59):
was typing out just my personalexperiences.
I'm like me as one person, I'velost four students that I
directly interacted with, andthen I'm in this foundation
where this entire family hasbeen impacted, and then I lost
my own thought.
That's just one singleTennessean with all this
experience.
And then I think about, like allthe other people like me who
(28:22):
have been touched by multipleincidents of gun violence, ms
Brooks, the director of theAkhila De Silva Foundation.
The thing about this she's shelost one son to a mass shooting.
Her other son was shot in theback of the head after a
performance this past summerjust standing and talking to
friends.
(28:42):
Afterwards Her daughter had torun away from a restaurant where
a shooting was happening andher other child had to sit
through countless lockdownprocedures and countless drills
tied to gun violence.
I think when you start to beaware that this is a public
(29:04):
health crisis, we, asindividuals, start to notice the
depth of its impact within ourown lives.
Whether we've lost someone,personally or not, we're all
impacted by this issue.
Every Tennessean, no matterwhat their background is, every
American, no matter what theirsocioeconomic status is, every
(29:24):
single person, has been impactedby this issue, and if you think
deep enough, you'll see youhave a personal connection to
gun violence, and that, to me,screams.
We need to do better.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty damning assessment and
you would think that anyone whoclaims that they want this
country to be a good place tolive would take that personally,
because it is preventable.
It's not like you're nottalking about people that were I
don't know like struck bylightning or something.
(29:58):
These are man-made events,these are man-made problems that
are really preventable.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yes, 100%.
I mean energy, money, resourcesget funneled into, you know,
get funneled into differentepidemics that we see in our
society, right, like there was acriminal approach taken to
crack cocaine in the 80s and 90s, right, and then, with opioid
(30:25):
use, there's this massiveinvestment in supporting people
who have lost loved ones, butwhen it comes to this massive
amount of Americans who havebeen killed by guns or affected
by gun violence, we continue notto take steps towards
prevention and we have thismassive misconception as a
(30:47):
society that you know the gunsare what's gonna keep us safe
and we never really look at themas the issue.
And so I think that's yeah,it's just alarming to me.
I understand tradition, Iunderstand people's affinity for
different things.
Like, I'm super, superpassionate about guitars right,
I have a lot of guitars but whenI go back to you know what
(31:12):
someone's a friend of mine whowas a gun owner and a proud gun
owner said to me one time thepurpose of this tool is to end a
life, and if you look at it anyother way, then you really
increase the likelihood thatit's gonna be misused or the
perception of why you have itmay change and accidents can
(31:34):
happen, and so I think that thatis another reason when we're
thinking about what are guns?
What do they do?
It's sole purpose is to endlives.
So if you look at it that way,you rise.
This is dangerous and we needto be more careful about
(31:56):
everything connected to thisdevice, to this machine, and
what it's intended for.
As opposed to, you know, therebeing more regulations to buy a
car or drive a car, or I meaneven go fishing, you know like I
feel like these days, you willgo through as much to get a
(32:19):
temporary fishing license to goout on a river versus go
stopping at the store to buy atool that is designed to end
someone's life.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
No, just on winter holidays I was up in New England
and listening to all of theregulations on like going
crabbing on your own propertyand I was like this is
surprisingly really hard andreally difficult and if you get
caught breaking the rulesthey're really strict.
And I was like, wow, what adifference.
And now everyone's gonna writein the crab lobby is gonna be
really mad at me for dismissingit.
But you know, kind of on anon-crab note, because I don't
(32:52):
want folks listening to this tothink that because I think one
of the responses sometimes whenyou hear about everything that's
happening in the world or youlisten to survivors, you listen
to educators that are goingthrough this, I think a response
that happens is people feeldespondent, maybe they feel a
little apathetic.
And so I'm wondering, as we'removing through 2024, right, new
year is there something thatgives you hope, kind of in the
(33:13):
gun prevention community?
Is there something that you'rereally hoping that folks can get
engaged with this year that canbe making the world a safer,
better place for ourselves, foryoung people, for our loved ones
?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, no, so I'm optimistic about 2024.
One because just in Tennesseealone, there has been a massive
increase in individuals runningfor public office who are
running on a gun controlplatform, and one thing that
excites me within that is it'salso people on the right side of
the aisle.
(33:44):
It's not just people on theleft that are running.
Usually everyone on the leftruns on this and believes in
this but families were impacted.
Going back to what you weresaying earlier, until it happens
to you were impacted bycovenant and I think a lot of
people started to realize thesepeople that we voted for
(34:05):
actually are not representing usand our interests and they're
getting involved and they'regetting active and they're
pressuring legislators to dosomething.
I went to the Capitol severaltimes to speak and to protest
and be a part of that throughoutthis past year and the number
of Tennesseans that were therewas really empowering and
uplifting to see the youngpeople getting involved, and
(34:28):
then change is going to happenreally in the communities where
people are electing legislatorsthat do everything to protect
guns, and so once they start tochange on this issue and they
start to pressure theirlegislators too, I think that's
going to make a massivedifference.
So I'm optimistic about that.
I think that a lot can be done.
(34:49):
I think if you're an individualwho's like, how do I get
involved?
First, recognize that there arepeople out there who have been
doing this work for a long timeand have a lot of great
connections and networks andresources and influence, and
donate to them.
You know, be involved andconnect with them, send a
(35:10):
message, make a donation.
I think that that is alwaysjust a great starting point.
Two, when you see these localorganizations hosting events, go
, learn more, be curious, youknow, get involved.
And I think.
Three, I think this might sounda little I don't know cliche,
(35:31):
but like vote, like your lifedepends on it, because for many
people I've learned it kind ofdoes, and so I think take the
issue of guns as a reallyserious public health crisis
that something needs to be doneabout here and now, and whether
that's writing a legislatorvoting along maybe a party line
that you haven't.
(35:51):
I'm not endorsing anyone bysaying that.
I'm just simply saying, like,take the issue with a really,
really immense amount of gravityand respond accordingly,
because it is serious.
The stats are incrediblyalarming.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I totally your experiences resonate with me in
terms of seeing people from allpolitical walks of life sort of
taking this issue on, and that'ssomething that gets obscured, I
think, sometimes in media.
But I've seen the same thingthat you have in part of my job
is going around to differentstates and you'll see people
(36:27):
saying like listen, I, you know,I'm, I'm, I'm a Republican, I'm
blah, blah, blah.
I own guns, I hunt, I love it,but this has got to stop.
So that's.
I'm glad that you raised thatand, kind of, as our time
together near the close, one ofthe things that JJ and I always
want to give an opportunity foris to humanize people who have
(36:51):
been victims of gun violence,because it's not just about how
they were taken, it's also whothey were.
And so, if you're comfortable,or wondering if you could share
with a favorite memory of yourdad or just an aspect of his
character, just as a way to kindof honor him.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, there's, there are so many, there are so many.
I think you know.
Actually, I'll tell a storythat actually wasn't necessarily
a direct impact on me, but Ithink just goes to show what an
amazing human he was.
My brother and I, you know, notonly were flooded with lots of
support from people who we knewdirectly that were connected to
(37:27):
my dad after he passed, but alsofor people he had never met or
ever even heard of.
And I remember one day he and Iwere sitting together and we
both got an email that camethrough at the same time from
this random person we had neverheard of and he said I was so
devastated to hear that yourfather had passed.
(37:48):
I met him one time at a concertin 1974, and I've never
forgotten him and I had allthese years wanted to reach back
out because of what an awesomeperson he was.
I'm like that's prettybeautiful, you know.
One concert at one time inhistory and this person's
emailing over what, like 30years later, his kids, to just
(38:10):
say your dad made an impact onme that I'll never forget, for
just a couple hours in 1974.
And so I think about the legacyand the love that he's left
behind, the hundreds, if notthousands, of hours of music
that are recorded, that hisfingerprints are all over.
You know we're also positive,so many people.
(38:31):
He's positively impacted peopleand they don't even know it
because of the sounds andfrequencies that he tied
together and harmonies that heblended and the way music
positively impacts people.
And to know that he every daysomeone is probably out there
being touched in some way bywork that he's done, is a really
beautiful, beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
That's gorgeous, you know.
I thought that, like music,frequencies, live forever.
Your voice in a podcast talkingabout him is a frequency, an
audio frequency that can be outthere forever and live, and I
think that that's just reallybeautiful and maybe that can be
like our number four before wego.
You know, in addition togetting out there and getting so
involved just on a personallevel, you know, reach out to
(39:12):
the folks that you love and tellthem how much you love them and
appreciate.
You appreciate them even if youonly met them at a concert once
in the seventies.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, just yeah.
You never know what impact itcan have.
I mean, someone said to me ifthis could happen to Charlie
Brock, it could happen toanybody.
And I think that was very true,because if you knew my dad, you
never would have thought he wasstruggling in any any type of
way, because he was someone whoI get.
He hit it very well and heconstantly put others first,
(39:42):
like I remember calling himbecause it was like 2012, 2013,.
I was watching the Grammys and Iwas like, oh, casey Musgrave,
just when I think my dad workedon that or whatever like.
And you know, just likewhatever, went back to writing
my paper.
I was in grad school at thetime and then I called him and
I'm like, did you just win aGrammy?
And he's like, yeah, how areyou doing bud?
And it was like just like, yeah, so nonchalant.
(40:05):
So just like whatever.
Like how's my son?
And that was all he wanted totalk about is what I was up to.
And so, yeah, just reaching out, checking on your loved ones
and telling people the impactthat they have on your life, you
never know what that might do.
I feel like I want to clap foryou and your dad you know, you
know, often when someone says,well, the issue is mental health
(40:26):
, I like to say mental health,yes, mental health.
And you know, safe storage,mental health and red flag laws,
like all of these things, aresolutions and we all have a lot
more common ground than werealize.
And so I think when we canaccept the stats as facts and we
operate off the data and we seea decrease in that data, then
(40:46):
we'll know we're really movingtoward a better society and a
more just society.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
No, I feel like I should clap too.
No, too kind.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Seriously, jonathan, thank you so much.
Hey want to share with thepodcast.
Others can now get in touchwith us here at Red Blue and
Brady via phone or text message.
Simply call or text us at480-744-3452 with your thoughts.
Questions concerns ideas, catpictures, whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Thanks for listening.
As always, brady's lifesavingwork in Congress, the courts and
communities across the countryis made possible thanks to you.
For more information on Bradyor how to get involved in the
fight against gun violence,please like and subscribe to the
podcast.
Get in touch with us atBradyUnitedorg or on social at
BradyBuzz.
Be brave and remember.
(41:37):
Take action, not sides.
This is the legal disclaimer, where I tell you
that the views, thoughts andopinion shared on this podcast
belong solely to our guests andhosts and not necessarily Brady
or Brady's affiliates.
Please note this podcastcontains discussions of violence
that some people may finddisturbing.
It's okay, we find itdisturbing too.
Hey, everybody, welcome back toanother episode of Red, blue
(00:45):
and Brady.
I'm one of your hosts, jj.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
And I'm Kelly, your other host.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And today, kelly and I are excited about the reword
for this episode.
Kelly, kelly and I aredisheartened that we are
dropping this episode when weare.
We had sat down just a few daysago with the great Jonathan
Brueco to discuss the reality ofbeing a survivor and an
(01:10):
educator, and our hopes and ourdreams for 2024.
And then this episode is comingout on the fifth day of January
.
We are five mass shootings deepalready in the US, one of the
most recent being at a highschool in Perry, iowa.
And I am mad, kelly, I'm reallymad.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
No, like, let's just, we just have to keep it real.
Like we are five days into anew year and there are some
people that rang in 2024 onDecember 31st, and now they're
not here because of gun violenceand we're upset about it, and
I'm sure if you're listening tothis, you're upset about it too.
And when we recorded thisepisode originally we thought it
(01:55):
would take we would release ita little bit later.
But because John talks aboutviolence both in a school and
outside of a school and being asurvivor and also the experience
of firearm suicide, he in a wayis like a microcosm of the
problem, and so we are releasingthis episode a little bit
sooner.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
And while we loved Jonathan, we could have talked
to him forever and we ended theepisode on such a hopeful note
that I still am really hopefulfor Listen to the end.
Jonathan has some, somesolutions and some action steps
we can all take here.
That that I am taking to heart.
I am just reminded, as I waswhen we first recorded this with
him, that we are asking so muchof our educators and so much of
our students, and then just somuch of people living under an
(02:37):
epidemic of gun violence and man, I really hope 2024 gets better
.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
And I think that, to your point, jj, we are being
honest about being a littledisheartened, but we also know
that there are we can do thingsto make 2024 better.
So, if you're feelingdisheartened, and listen to this
.
If you're feeling amped up andready to go, listen to this,
because we can acknowledge thatthis is really messed up and we
also are trying to do the workto make sure that we prevent
(03:06):
this.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
Agreed my name is Jonathan Brocco.
I'm a school administrator herein Nashville, tennessee, also a
gun violence advocate, who'sbeen working in that space for a
couple of years now and been aneducator for about 10 years.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah Well, jj and I have tremendous respect for
educators, especially in theclimate that we're in right now,
and you know you talked aboutin addition to being an educator
and a gun violence preventionadvocate.
You come to this work from manyof those perspectives and
including you've lost a familymember to gun violence and I'm
wondering if you could share thestory of how you got into this
(03:46):
work.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Absolutely yeah.
So I was teaching at a middleschool here in Nashville prior
to becoming an administrator andthere was a student that
attended the school named AldaneBrooks.
He just an awesome kid.
He was in sixth grade at thetime and I taught eighth.
So we kind of only interacted,you know, in the hallways and
you know extracurriculars, butwe got to know each other pretty
(04:08):
well.
And then there was a massshooting in Nashville at a
waffle house in April of I thinkit was April 22nd 2018.
And he lost his older brotherin that mass shooting.
His other brother was alsothere with him.
They were just having a mealcelebrating a music video they
had just released and it youknow it just caused an insane
(04:32):
amount of turmoil for theirfamily.
Like, I mean, how do you Idon't even know how how you kind
of square that.
You know it's just like you'reout celebrating living life?
He released his music was wasuh was gun violence awareness
music.
Like he talked about the impactin his rap lyrics about losing
friends, about why access toguns is a problem, and then to
(04:55):
lose his life in a mass shootingis just unimaginable.
And so their family kind ofbanded together.
Our school community reallyrallied around them and they,
they, they established afoundation called the Akilah De
Silva Foundation, which is aimedat educating the public about
the issues of gun violence andthe ripple effects associated
(05:16):
with that.
So that was in 2018.
We kind of got involved.
I started attending some oftheir rallies, some of their
work and then, in February of2019, I found out one night that
my father had had ended hislife with a firearm and so that
you know, really really tossedour family into an intense
(05:38):
amount of trauma and grief.
And you know, that experiencemade me start looking at the
issue of guns and gun violencein a completely different light.
And from there I remember wewere having dinner with
Shondelle Brooks all Dane'smother and their family in 2021.
And she said a phrase thatreally sat with me and made me
(06:02):
think about this in a newperspective.
She said it just was talking tous and she said you know us
survivors of gun violence.
And that was when it hit me like, oh, my family, we're survivors
too.
And I think that that kind ofreflected to me in that moment
how deep the sickness of gunviolence is in our country and
(06:27):
made me start seeing it as apublic health crisis, just to
think that, like I had lostsomeone for almost two years at
this point and I had neverreally seen myself as a survivor
of gun violence until two yearslater when someone else who
also lost someone, you know, toa firearm, set it to me.
So she asked me to join theirfoundation as a board member,
(06:51):
focusing on educational outreachand a scholarship program that
they started in memory of Akilah, and so I've been doing that
for a little over a year now.
But yeah, that's kind of how Igot into the work and why I stay
in it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Well, and before we move on, I wanna thank you for
sharing, because I feel likethis is and Kelly can back me up
here this is the really awkwardand hard part of our work, like
not just on the podcast, butworking in this space and gun
violence prevention, because todo this work, we have to ask
survivors to give a lot ofthemselves and other families by
telling their stories, I think,to make policymakers and folks
(07:28):
out in the world actuallyrealize that this is a thing
that happens.
This isn't a statistic.
This is your dad, these areyour students, and so I
appreciate you a lot and I justwanna appreciate, like you and
your family, for being willingto step forward and speak about
this, and even like you and yourschool community.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
No, thank you for acknowledging that and thank you
for providing us with the spaceto open up and to share these
things, because, like any issuewe've ever seen in history, it
doesn't get better if people aresilent about it.
And so for me, I really thinkabout.
I was a voidant of tellingpeople how he died.
(08:10):
At first, there was a immenseamount of shame and feelings
that came associated withgrowing up in the South and the
mindsets that may exist incommunities around issues like
suicide and the topic of gunviolence.
So doing all the personalhealing work to get to a space
(08:30):
to share and then have an outletto come, outlets to come talk
about this is so important.
So I appreciate y'all as well.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Something that your experiences get at is the fact
that gun violence obviously wehave the statistics about people
who are shot or people who areinjured, but that doesn't really
convey the full scope, and youtalked about with Akilah that,
what you saw with his family andeven your own experiences
honoring his memory.
And then you also talk aboutwith your father some of the
(09:00):
ripple effects, and so I'mwondering if you could, to the
extent that you're comfortable,share with us.
You already talked about shameand stigma, but what life was
like for you and your mom in theaftermath and some of the
things that we don't necessarilysee in statistics but are very
real impacts of gun violence.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
No, absolutely.
I think one thing was losing mydad in this way was so
challenging for our family, butit hit me that it was a
challenge for, like, the broadercommunity that he worked in and
lived into.
So he was a.
(09:38):
He was just a great human being, so positive, so happy, and he
was a Grammy-winning recordingengineer Like.
He had a really awesome lifeand I remember when, at his
memorial, there being likesomewhere between 200, and 500,
and 300 people that came to thismemorial and just being there
(09:58):
in that space and being shockedlike, wow, what an impact he
made, and I think it was also areminder of just what a force of
good energy and light he was toso many.
And so for our family it left amassive, a massive hole, and my
mom got diagnosed with cancersix months after he passed, and
(10:21):
so I had to step into acaregiver role.
My brother was in physicianassistant school in Knoxville at
the time, and so we're all justtrying to move forward with
life as normal as you, asnormally as you can, but life is
never normal again after aftersomething like that, and so we
all began you know intensetrauma and grief, counseling and
(10:43):
unpacking our healing in thatway and leaning on each other
and community members that youknow supported us and you know
that's why we're able to sitkind of comfortably and talk
about it today.
But it's the ripple effects.
You can't really count thembecause you still are learning
them.
I'm still learning them.
Today there's a new thing thathappens and I go, oh you know
(11:06):
he's not here and someone kindof do that, and so then I'll
step up and take care ofwhatever it may be, and my
brother will when he can as well.
But yeah, it's I.
We kind of talk about it in thesense of it's like this rolling
experience.
It never really stops.
I remember, you know, we hadthe last February it was four
years since he had been gone andjust thinking through how to
(11:31):
support my mom with all thetreatments that she's been going
through.
You know how to be a, you knowa brother.
And then also, you know, giveyourself the space when the
grief comes up, because it justcomes up at random times and
it's so strange because in oneday you might experience this
emotional high from a great lifeachievement and then that night
be at home and grief hits youbecause he's not there to
(11:54):
celebrate it with you, and soyeah it's.
It's never ending.
It's the word that I would say.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
I feel like, in some ways, what you're speaking to is
just the grief experience,right, it's like you're staying
at the ocean.
You don't know when the wavesare gonna be big, you know
they'll be small, you just knowyou're gonna kind of get wet,
but you can't.
You can't plan for those likewaves of sadness.
But I feel like and I don'tknow if, kelly, if you've had
(12:20):
the same experience, but throughthis podcast, I feel like when
we're talking to people who'veexperienced this particular
grief, they're like gun violence.
Loss is its own special kind ofgrief and I don't know if that's
because, if it's a grief that'smaybe not discussed openly, I
don't know if it's because it'sa grief that's become
politicized.
I don't know if it's a griefthat you know like there's never
(12:41):
a break from it.
In America there's always,every day, you're seeing in the
news this violence again.
So I don't, I don't know why.
I don't know like all grief ishard.
I don't I don't want todiscount all grief or all or any
loss, but it's just like thisseems like a different Sort of
loss or pain.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yeah, and I and you know, and I've never wanted to,
you know that's like it's such agood point because I've often
said that to people where youare dealing with grief, you're
dealing with loss, and thenthere's these other layers to it
, right, there's the layer ofsuicide and then there's the
layer of gun violence, and sothe experience of what it's been
like to navigate kind of allthree of those phases has been
(13:23):
really, I think, unique, youknow, to individuals that go
through this, and so you knowsome examples I've kind of run
into or people coming up to meand you know I can't believe he
did that.
I just and that's and that likejust I'm just at a grocery store
on a Saturday running tosomeone I haven't seen in 13
years, since I was a kid orwhatever another, coming up and
(13:45):
I Can't believe this and I can'tbelieve that, you know, and and
even really insensitivecomments about, you know, the
preservation of Gun rights, it'sjust it's it's kind of
mind-numbing.
And so, yeah, there's, there'smany additional layers to this
experience and kind of changes,what those waves kind of feel
(14:05):
like, because, you know, I mighthave a conversation, that's,
I'm having a good day, I'm notreally grieving, but someone
comes in from one of thoseangles and then you find
yourself back in that kind ofspace and it kind of throws you
off a Little bit.
So, yeah, it's a really goodpoint and it's something that I
think the broader communityshould reflect on.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And I think also to the fact that you came into this
activism before you lost yourdad because of another trauma
You're going through.
Like you know, we've had manyconversations about what is a
survivor and what to findsomeone as a survivor, but I
want to say that I personallythink that to be an educator and
to know that one of your kidsor one of your students has lost
Family members or is goingthrough that trauma, to live in
a community where there's been amass shooting, to be an
(14:48):
educator where you're worriedabout Violence at your school or
violence that's impacting yourstudents I Feel like that makes
a survivor, and I feel likeeducators or teachers in the US
already take on so many burdensfor their community and For
their kids.
You know, if you're a teacher,you love your kids, and so
that's already present too, I'msure.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
Absolutely it's.
It's kind of changed how Ithink about my work One when I
when all day lost his brother,to when when my dad passed, and
then when covenant happenedrecently, you know, just this
past year in Nashville.
Every day, literally every dayof my job, is impacted by guns
and gun violence.
(15:29):
If I'm in the hallway and Ihear, you know, there's like a
operations team member workingin a chair falls over and hits
the ground like my head,immediately goes to the protocol
for what to do in a lockdown,that's.
That's just, you're walkingthrough your day trying to just
educate, support teachers andyou know, and be a support for
(15:50):
kids and their families and thenat every turn you're like kind
of, you know, expecting orpreparing for some, some, that,
some horrible thing to happenand and that what.
What really gets me is like how,nor like how normalized this
issue has become.
What, why, why is death by gunsand guns such a normalized
(16:13):
experience for so many of usthat you know, I'm just a school
administrator and Every hour ofevery day there's a thought
tied back to the safety of mystudents in connection to gun,
guns and gun violence, and it'syou know.
And then when I have a studentwho's dealing with a social,
emotional issue, then you knowbeing supportive of like
(16:39):
respective, of the family andtheir rights, but also like, do
they have access to things thatcan hurt them at home, and
trying to like make them awareof that in the process.
It never really stops in mywork either, and it's really our
teachers are very aware of it,and I don't want to use the word
(16:59):
disturbing, but it isdisturbing.
Like you know, covenanthappened and we were back at
work the next day.
Every teacher in Nashville waswith the exception of covenant,
and rightfully so.
But why didn't we stop as acommunity?
And why is that the expectation?
You know, mass shooting aftermass shooting, these individuals
(17:21):
just have to keep going and itdoesn't really make a lot of
sense to me.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
I think it's really telling that oftentimes, I think
the perception can be if you'rean educator, then gun violence
will only impact you if ithappens at your school and what
you shared is if something likecovenant happens or in the case
of the Waffle House shooting, ifsomething happens in the
community, that still willimpact you as an educator, as
(17:50):
you're going in and now you'retrying to teach students who
don't live in a bubble and whosee these things and they're
supposed to think about geometryor Shakespeare or something,
but they've just seen somethingthat their brains may not be
able to handle, because even asadults it's really hard to
handle.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
No, absolutely.
You know when you're likewalking through classroom to
classroom after an event hashappened in your community,
because even when there areshootings in the neighborhood
that may have led to the loss ofa student's family member I've
even lost I lost four formerstudents last year to gun
(18:28):
violence alone.
I mean you're just walkingthrough reminding kids why
they're safe, why they're safe,why they're safe, and at a
certain point you just go.
Why do I feel like I'm?
Why do we as teachers, asschool leaders, feel like we're
the only ones really supportingthese students or reminding them
why they're safe?
Why isn't their leadershipexternally above us in the
(18:53):
legislature?
You know doing things to showkids we're going to keep you
safe.
It's just troubling to me whenyou're faced with tragedy after
tragedy and the solutioncontinues to be more guns
that'll fix the problem, and sothat really really is a.
This is a challengingexperience, I think, for all of
us.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
And I imagine this has to be so difficult because
already when you're teachingduring COVID or like in the
midst of a global pandemic, oryou know after now that kids are
back in school in person, forthe most part we don't know what
effect that has had on kids andtheir educational experience
fully yet we won't for quite awhile.
But we also don't know whatthis amount of gun violence that
(19:36):
these kids are confronting,what that's doing to them or
what it's going to continuedoing to them, because I know as
an adult it's not good for meto be constantly seeing this
amount of violence out in theworld.
So I can't imagine for a kidthat it's good.
But it's become so normalizedand so kind of baked into the
(19:57):
life experience not just of kidsbut of teachers and just people
in the world Going throughschool.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Oh, 100%.
I've been really astounded tothat.
You know, one of the ideasthat's pitched around this is is
arming teachers, where wedidn't sign up for that, and
Tennessee and other states inthe South have really
demonstrated that they don'ttrust us to pick the curriculum
and books for our kids, but theywant us to carry guns to keep
(20:27):
them safe, and I think that'sjust so detached from reality
and speaks to this dystopia thatyou're talking about.
An interesting story kind ofconnected to this.
I had a really good friend and Igrew up in the South and I was,
just to be transparent, I wasnot politically aligned with
those people that I went toschool with, and so a good.
(20:50):
But I made a lot of friends andmet some really great people,
and a guy that I consider myselfto be pretty close with heard a
radio interview I was on wherewe were discussing arming
teachers, and he sent me amessage about the only thing
that can stop a bad guy with agun is a good guy with a gun,
(21:11):
and I was like, let me approachthis with curiosity and get into
just some discussion, and whatwas so interesting to me is the
point that resonated with him,that made him see where I was
coming from was when I saidimagine a teacher who is one of
the people in the buildingthat's required to carry the gun
and let's say an intruder comesinto the building and let's say
(21:34):
your kid were in that room,would you want that teacher
leaving that group of kids to gofind the intruder?
And he was like, oh no, I wantthem to be there with my kid and
keep them safe.
I'm like right, because that'sbasic security protocol.
Any security expert that came into consult would tell you you
never leave kids alone in thesesituations.
Right, but what if you're thatperson who has to carry and the
(21:56):
intruder comes in?
The whole idea makes no senselogistically or, to me, even
morally.
But that's separate.
But just if you just look atthe basic idea and how it would
work in a day to day scenario,it doesn't work.
It doesn't make anyone saferand so, yeah, we just have to.
(22:18):
We just live this reality ofdealing with potential tragedy
as normalcy and that's justagain really disturbing.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I mean the point that you just made there about basic
security protocol.
I think it's so important for acouple of reasons.
One it just goes to show howimportant it is to have your
perspective in this space,because so often people who are
making policies around schoolsor campuses I haven't ever been
on a campus or other than whenwe were students ourselves but
at the same time, I know thatone of the problems is that
(22:51):
being an educator is extremelytime consuming and it's like
hours and hours outside of theschool hours, and so then, for
you to be doing gun violence orintervention work on top of it
is a huge sacrifice, and I'mwondering what misperceptions
have you seen, maybe from peoplein your community that maybe
you don't align with thempolitically, or maybe you do,
but what misperceptions dopeople have about being a gun
(23:14):
violence survivor or a gunviolence prevention advocate
that you kind of would love toclear up?
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, I think the first one is that people who are
aligned to my values and mybeliefs they think like we wanna
take away everybody's guns andget rid of everybody's guns.
That's not what we're operatingfrom.
It's something that wecontinuously message is we're
not here to step on someone'sconstitutional right.
(23:41):
Rather, we're trying to supporteach other and our community to
look at it in different waysand understand that the easier
the access is, the more problemsyou're going to encounter and
experience, and so I think aboutred flag laws as being
important.
(24:04):
I think of the issue of gunshows being a massive issue.
There are countless documentedexperiences of kids going to gun
shows and leaving with guns andhaving no problem purchasing
them.
There are so many rippleeffects associated with easy
access easy and open access thathave led to the problems that
we experience as a society, andso we wanna do something about
(24:29):
that.
And I think that that's animportant thing, because,
growing up here, while I did notnecessarily grow up in a family
where guns were present becauseit was a tradition of some sort
, we had them because there wasan experience that made my
parents feel very unsafe, sothey purchased one and, just
(24:50):
like 85% of these situations, mydad ended up using it on
himself, and so I think thatwhen you look at the statistics,
60% of gun deaths areself-inflicted gun shots.
When you think about themassive impact that this open
and easy access has made, that'swhat we're advocating for,
(25:11):
that's what we're trying to dosomething about and make each
other kind of think differentlyabout and say that there are
other ways to approach thisproblem.
I think about what if, when mydad had had a heart attack and a
stroke prior to him starting tostruggle mentally and
physically, and so his work wasimpacted, his purpose, his
(25:34):
overall well-being wasdramatically changed.
What if, when, at any point intime where he was going through
these massive life changes, ifsomeone a medical professional,
a friend, someone said to him ushey, like, are you okay?
You're going through a lot.
One possible thing that mighthappen to you from this
(25:57):
experience is depression and doyou have anything access to
anything at home that could hurtyou?
And just like supporting eachother in a more holistic way, I
think is a very possible thingand achievable thing, and so I
think that's.
One of the biggestmisconceptions is that gun
safety advocates and gun controladvocates people often think
(26:21):
we're coming for their guns, andthat's not what the reality of
the situation is.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I think you articulated that really
beautifully because I know, whenI've had success talking with
family and friends maybe whodon't agree with what they think
that I'm for because I work ingun violence prevention when we
sit down and actually starthaving a conversation, it's
sharing stories like yours andsharing the reality of the
(26:48):
actual statistics that are outthere, not like a talking point
that they've heard maybe from,like, gun lobby folks.
That's really helpful and again,that's why I'm just I'm so
thankful that there are folkslike you who are willing to
share because, I'll be honest, Ithink it's using those stories
that really hit folks, becausewe talked about this a lot, like
(27:09):
no one ever thinks necessarilythat it's going to happen and
yet a lot of Americans whohaven't experienced it are just
kind of almost waiting for gunviolence to happen.
As you said, you're walkingdown the hall, you're waiting.
You hear a lot of noise.
You expect it.
I go to movie theaters.
I'm waiting.
I see people having a road ragein the street.
(27:29):
I'm waiting for somethingterrible to happen and I don't
understand how, as you said,like we got to this dystopian
point.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yeah, I mean, that's one of the.
I was prepping for a pressconference earlier this year
when the legislative cycle washappening here in Tennessee
actually the special session.
They brought everyone backtogether to do something about
what happened at Covenant andthey did nothing.
And I remember going to speakat this press conference and I
(27:59):
was typing out just my personalexperiences.
I'm like me as one person, I'velost four students that I
directly interacted with, andthen I'm in this foundation
where this entire family hasbeen impacted, and then I lost
my own thought.
That's just one singleTennessean with all this
experience.
And then I think about, like allthe other people like me who
(28:22):
have been touched by multipleincidents of gun violence, ms
Brooks, the director of theAkhila De Silva Foundation.
The thing about this she's shelost one son to a mass shooting.
Her other son was shot in theback of the head after a
performance this past summerjust standing and talking to
friends.
(28:42):
Afterwards Her daughter had torun away from a restaurant where
a shooting was happening andher other child had to sit
through countless lockdownprocedures and countless drills
tied to gun violence.
I think when you start to beaware that this is a public
(29:04):
health crisis, we, asindividuals, start to notice the
depth of its impact within ourown lives.
Whether we've lost someone,personally or not, we're all
impacted by this issue.
Every Tennessean, no matterwhat their background is, every
American, no matter what theirsocioeconomic status is, every
(29:24):
single person, has been impactedby this issue, and if you think
deep enough, you'll see youhave a personal connection to
gun violence, and that, to me,screams.
We need to do better.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty damning assessment and
you would think that anyone whoclaims that they want this
country to be a good place tolive would take that personally,
because it is preventable.
It's not like you're nottalking about people that were I
don't know like struck bylightning or something.
(29:58):
These are man-made events,these are man-made problems that
are really preventable.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
Yes, 100%.
I mean energy, money, resourcesget funneled into, you know,
get funneled into differentepidemics that we see in our
society, right, like there was acriminal approach taken to
crack cocaine in the 80s and 90s, right, and then, with opioid
(30:25):
use, there's this massiveinvestment in supporting people
who have lost loved ones, butwhen it comes to this massive
amount of Americans who havebeen killed by guns or affected
by gun violence, we continue notto take steps towards
prevention and we have thismassive misconception as a
(30:47):
society that you know the gunsare what's gonna keep us safe
and we never really look at themas the issue.
And so I think that's yeah,it's just alarming to me.
I understand tradition, Iunderstand people's affinity for
different things.
Like, I'm super, superpassionate about guitars right,
I have a lot of guitars but whenI go back to you know what
(31:12):
someone's a friend of mine whowas a gun owner and a proud gun
owner said to me one time thepurpose of this tool is to end a
life, and if you look at it anyother way, then you really
increase the likelihood thatit's gonna be misused or the
perception of why you have itmay change and accidents can
(31:34):
happen, and so I think that thatis another reason when we're
thinking about what are guns?
What do they do?
It's sole purpose is to endlives.
So if you look at it that way,you rise.
This is dangerous and we needto be more careful about
(31:56):
everything connected to thisdevice, to this machine, and
what it's intended for.
As opposed to, you know, therebeing more regulations to buy a
car or drive a car, or I meaneven go fishing, you know like I
feel like these days, you willgo through as much to get a
(32:19):
temporary fishing license to goout on a river versus go
stopping at the store to buy atool that is designed to end
someone's life.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
No, just on winter holidays I was up in New England
and listening to all of theregulations on like going
crabbing on your own propertyand I was like this is
surprisingly really hard andreally difficult and if you get
caught breaking the rulesthey're really strict.
And I was like, wow, what adifference.
And now everyone's gonna writein the crab lobby is gonna be
really mad at me for dismissingit.
But you know, kind of on anon-crab note, because I don't
(32:52):
want folks listening to this tothink that because I think one
of the responses sometimes whenyou hear about everything that's
happening in the world or youlisten to survivors, you listen
to educators that are goingthrough this, I think a response
that happens is people feeldespondent, maybe they feel a
little apathetic.
And so I'm wondering, as we'removing through 2024, right, new
year is there something thatgives you hope, kind of in the
(33:13):
gun prevention community?
Is there something that you'rereally hoping that folks can get
engaged with this year that canbe making the world a safer,
better place for ourselves, foryoung people, for our loved ones
?
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Yeah, no, so I'm optimistic about 2024.
One because just in Tennesseealone, there has been a massive
increase in individuals runningfor public office who are
running on a gun controlplatform, and one thing that
excites me within that is it'salso people on the right side of
the aisle.
(33:44):
It's not just people on theleft that are running.
Usually everyone on the leftruns on this and believes in
this but families were impacted.
Going back to what you weresaying earlier, until it happens
to you were impacted bycovenant and I think a lot of
people started to realize thesepeople that we voted for
(34:05):
actually are not representing usand our interests and they're
getting involved and they'regetting active and they're
pressuring legislators to dosomething.
I went to the Capitol severaltimes to speak and to protest
and be a part of that throughoutthis past year and the number
of Tennesseans that were therewas really empowering and
uplifting to see the youngpeople getting involved, and
(34:28):
then change is going to happenreally in the communities where
people are electing legislatorsthat do everything to protect
guns, and so once they start tochange on this issue and they
start to pressure theirlegislators too, I think that's
going to make a massivedifference.
So I'm optimistic about that.
I think that a lot can be done.
(34:49):
I think if you're an individualwho's like, how do I get
involved?
First, recognize that there arepeople out there who have been
doing this work for a long timeand have a lot of great
connections and networks andresources and influence, and
donate to them.
You know, be involved andconnect with them, send a
(35:10):
message, make a donation.
I think that that is alwaysjust a great starting point.
Two, when you see these localorganizations hosting events, go
, learn more, be curious, youknow, get involved.
And I think.
Three, I think this might sounda little I don't know cliche,
(35:31):
but like vote, like your lifedepends on it, because for many
people I've learned it kind ofdoes, and so I think take the
issue of guns as a reallyserious public health crisis
that something needs to be doneabout here and now, and whether
that's writing a legislatorvoting along maybe a party line
that you haven't.
(35:51):
I'm not endorsing anyone bysaying that.
I'm just simply saying, like,take the issue with a really,
really immense amount of gravityand respond accordingly,
because it is serious.
The stats are incrediblyalarming.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
I totally your experiences resonate with me in
terms of seeing people from allpolitical walks of life sort of
taking this issue on, and that'ssomething that gets obscured, I
think, sometimes in media.
But I've seen the same thingthat you have in part of my job
is going around to differentstates and you'll see people
(36:27):
saying like listen, I, you know,I'm, I'm, I'm a Republican, I'm
blah, blah, blah.
I own guns, I hunt, I love it,but this has got to stop.
So that's.
I'm glad that you raised thatand, kind of, as our time
together near the close, one ofthe things that JJ and I always
want to give an opportunity foris to humanize people who have
(36:51):
been victims of gun violence,because it's not just about how
they were taken, it's also whothey were.
And so, if you're comfortable,or wondering if you could share
with a favorite memory of yourdad or just an aspect of his
character, just as a way to kindof honor him.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yeah, there's, there are so many, there are so many.
I think you know.
Actually, I'll tell a storythat actually wasn't necessarily
a direct impact on me, but Ithink just goes to show what an
amazing human he was.
My brother and I, you know, notonly were flooded with lots of
support from people who we knewdirectly that were connected to
(37:27):
my dad after he passed, but alsofor people he had never met or
ever even heard of.
And I remember one day he and Iwere sitting together and we
both got an email that camethrough at the same time from
this random person we had neverheard of and he said I was so
devastated to hear that yourfather had passed.
(37:48):
I met him one time at a concertin 1974, and I've never
forgotten him and I had allthese years wanted to reach back
out because of what an awesomeperson he was.
I'm like that's prettybeautiful, you know.
One concert at one time inhistory and this person's
emailing over what, like 30years later, his kids, to just
(38:10):
say your dad made an impact onme that I'll never forget, for
just a couple hours in 1974.
And so I think about the legacyand the love that he's left
behind, the hundreds, if notthousands, of hours of music
that are recorded, that hisfingerprints are all over.
You know we're also positive,so many people.
(38:31):
He's positively impacted peopleand they don't even know it
because of the sounds andfrequencies that he tied
together and harmonies that heblended and the way music
positively impacts people.
And to know that he every daysomeone is probably out there
being touched in some way bywork that he's done, is a really
beautiful, beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
That's gorgeous, you know.
I thought that, like music,frequencies, live forever.
Your voice in a podcast talkingabout him is a frequency, an
audio frequency that can be outthere forever and live, and I
think that that's just reallybeautiful and maybe that can be
like our number four before wego.
You know, in addition togetting out there and getting so
involved just on a personallevel, you know, reach out to
(39:12):
the folks that you love and tellthem how much you love them and
appreciate.
You appreciate them even if youonly met them at a concert once
in the seventies.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, just yeah.
You never know what impact itcan have.
I mean, someone said to me ifthis could happen to Charlie
Brock, it could happen toanybody.
And I think that was very true,because if you knew my dad, you
never would have thought he wasstruggling in any any type of
way, because he was someone whoI get.
He hit it very well and heconstantly put others first,
(39:42):
like I remember calling himbecause it was like 2012, 2013,.
I was watching the Grammys and Iwas like, oh, casey Musgrave,
just when I think my dad workedon that or whatever like.
And you know, just likewhatever, went back to writing
my paper.
I was in grad school at thetime and then I called him and
I'm like, did you just win aGrammy?
And he's like, yeah, how areyou doing bud?
And it was like just like, yeah, so nonchalant.
(40:05):
So just like whatever.
Like how's my son?
And that was all he wanted totalk about is what I was up to.
And so, yeah, just reaching out, checking on your loved ones
and telling people the impactthat they have on your life, you
never know what that might do.
I feel like I want to clap foryou and your dad you know, you
know, often when someone says,well, the issue is mental health
(40:26):
, I like to say mental health,yes, mental health.
And you know, safe storage,mental health and red flag laws,
like all of these things, aresolutions and we all have a lot
more common ground than werealize.
And so I think when we canaccept the stats as facts and we
operate off the data and we seea decrease in that data, then
(40:46):
we'll know we're really movingtoward a better society and a
more just society.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
No, I feel like I should clap too.
No, too kind.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Seriously, jonathan, thank you so much.
Hey want to share with thepodcast.
Others can now get in touchwith us here at Red Blue and
Brady via phone or text message.
Simply call or text us at480-744-3452 with your thoughts.
Questions concerns ideas, catpictures, whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
Thanks for listening.
As always, brady's lifesavingwork in Congress, the courts and
communities across the countryis made possible thanks to you.
For more information on Bradyor how to get involved in the
fight against gun violence,please like and subscribe to the
podcast.
Get in touch with us atBradyUnitedorg or on social at
BradyBuzz.
Be brave and remember.
(41:37):
Take action, not sides.
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