April 7, 2023 • 31 mins
We review two of the buzziest books of early 2023: Fast-paced gangster novel set in India Age of Vice by Deepti Kapoor and friendship travel story/thriller with Daisy Jones and the Six (by Taylor Jenkins Reid) vibes The Villa by Rachel Hawkins. Age of Vice is a contemporary novel set in India. It is equal parts thriller and family saga and centres around the Wadia crime family. The book is about gangsters, lovers, false friendships, forbidden romance and corruption. The Villa is a classic beach and escapist read. It is popular fiction with backstory and a bit of a bite.
Books and resources discussed:
Age of Vice by Deepti Kapoor
The Villa by Rachel Hawkins
Party Down, Crave
Shantaram by Gregory David Roberts
Shantaram, Apple Plus
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
So long as we did His work, whatever else we did short
of Killing cops, we hadprotection. I had a great
education there. I understoodthe turning of the wheel, how
the cops and the politicians andthe bureaucrats were all working
together to keep this wheel inmotion. However he spoke of the
wheel was important how thewheel was a system itself. How
(00:22):
men like you are the shit thatsticks to the wheel. How wheel
crushes everything in its path.
And oh, what a crushing it was.
We indulged in extortion,collecting protection, money
from businesses, or else burningthem down. We commit many
kidnappings for ransom. We killour opponents stage riots,
manage protests, if the minoritycommunity became upstarts, we
(00:46):
burn their neighborhoods down.
If some misguided citizen triedto complain about us, go to the
media, or the new districtmagistrate we break their legs,
or else we kill the journalistthemselves. We had to make sure
the message was clear. As longas you know your place and don't
interfere, the wheel turns verywell. But if you wish to be a
hero, goodbye.
(01:26):
Hello, welcome back to the RedFern book review. I'm your host,
Amy Mair. And today I'm joinedby my co host, Jeff Mair. Hi,
Jeff. Hi, Amy, how's it going?
It's good. We're here to discusstwo of the buzziest books of
early 2023. We're going to talkabout the fast pace gangster
(01:48):
novels set in India, called theage advice by Deepti Kapoor and
that was the opening quote thatI gave, and a friendship travel
story thriller with Daisy Jonesin the six vibes, called the
villa by Rachel Hopkins. Butbefore we get started, Jeff, I
(02:10):
wanted to thank you and pointout to listeners that you might
be hearing new sounds on thispodcast and hopefully, better
edits because you've taken overas executive producer.
Geoff Mair (02:27):
Yeah, I'm really excited to be doing the edits,
because I think I can do apretty good job on them. Yeah.
Unknown (02:34):
So people are, have been very supportive of this
podcast. But I have had a fewcomments over the last couple of
years that sometimes the musicjust stops, and there's the cuts
are kind of severe. So
Geoff Mair (02:53):
I've suggested that the few times that I that I
could make them better, and Ithink, so far it's working,
Unknown (02:59):
and even picked up a little made music a little
jazzier. Yeah,
Geoff Mair (03:04):
I mean, I picked little jazz, your section of
music. So it's a little moreupbeat at the start of the show.
Unknown (03:09):
So this dovetails with what you're doing in your spare
time, which to tell everyoneabout what what you've been up
to, because you you've had alittle back story, we've
mentioned it before, but you'vehad double knee replacement
surgeries. Yeah,
Geoff Mair (03:23):
so I got some time on my hands, like a lot of time
on my hands. So and I knew I wasgoing to have a lot of time on
the hands coming up. So Idecided to take up a new hobby,
which is DJing. Because it kindof blends two things I love. I
love music, and I love tech andlike DJing and kind of mixing
music is a very techy endeavorthat that, you know, also brings
(03:47):
a music and I love music. So I'mlearning to edit sound now as a
hobby, and it's awesome for theshow, because I get to edit
sound in the show, too.
Unknown (03:56):
So maybe when you're ready, we can debut one of your
mixes on the Red Fern.
I don't know if it's the rightaudience. But
anyway, let's talk about thebooks. So the first book we're
going to talk about, I thinkthis discussion is going to play
(04:17):
out a little bit about like the1991 movie with Kevin Bacon
called. He Said, She Said, andit's about journalists with
dueling perspectives. Do youremember that movie? I did?
Anyway, we're pretty divided onthis book, this first book. So
the first book we're going totalk about is Asia vise. And
(04:40):
it's a contemporary novel set inIndia. And it's equal parts
thriller and family saga, and itcenters around the wadiya crime
family. And this book is aboutgangsters, lovers, false
friendships, forbidden romance,and corruption of lot of
(05:00):
corruption and highlights thehuge disparity in wealth between
classes, highlights poverty,government corruption and
organized crime. And I reallythought it was about a lot of it
was about the lack of choicepeople have on either side of
the spectrum as well, the bookliterally starts with a bang.
(05:23):
And in the very first pages, itstarts like a, like an action
movie. It's, we're in New Delhi,it's 3am. And a speeding,
Mercedes jumps the curb, andmoves over five people. And the
car is owned by someone verywealthy. But when the whole
(05:43):
thing's over, it's the servantsthat takes the blame. And we're,
that's how it starts. And wedon't know anything more, except
all of a sudden, this personnamed Aj is left kind of
literally holding the bag. Andthat's kind of that's like kind
of the setup, the kickoff. Andso it really was fast moving and
(06:09):
dramatic as the book the wholerest of the book remains. And,
Jeff, you really liked thisbook. And I'd like you to tell
everybody why.
Geoff Mair (06:19):
For various reasons, I think the first is like, I
thought the author did a reallygood job of transporting the
reader into another culture. Youknow, the book is kind of like,
has elements of the Godfather init for sure, but set in India.
So you really learned about, youknow, the Indian, Indian mafia
and Indian culture, and I reallyfelt like I was transported
(06:40):
into, you know, another world. Ireally liked the characters and
and sort of the moral conflictsthat they had. And I thought I
felt like the moral conflictsthat the characters had sort of
reflected the moral conflictsthat exist in Indian culture.
What like, here's some someexamples of moral conflicts.
(07:03):
Like there's Netta, who's ajournalist, you know, supposed
to be ethical, but she's also apart of the story. You know,
she's there, sonny, who's likethis, descend into the mob, and
he's like this mob son, but healso sees himself as a
moderniser of New Delhi and likethis really good. You know, a
(07:23):
lot of the mob characters seethemselves as almost like
politicians. And I think that'sa really moral conflict. And
then the other one that I reallyliked is when Aj is sold into
slavery, and there's thecharacters my mommy and daddy
who, you know, think they'revery moral treat him like
(07:43):
they're his son, but he's reallya slave, you know, that those
kinds of moral complex in thebook, I think, are super
interesting. I love the middlepart of the book where there's
like this sort of out ofcontrol, romance going on
between Netta and Sunni. Andjust generally, I thought the
book was, you know, a pretty,pretty realistic depiction of
what goes on in the gaming worldin India. But it was really
(08:06):
interesting.
Unknown (08:07):
So AJ, who just mentioned was the person stuck
with the speedy Mercedes, at thevery beginning of the novel, and
the author, deep tea, says thathe is the heart of the book, he
was my favorite character. And,and as Jeff mentioned, he came
from very difficultcircumstances really had
(08:29):
nothing, nobody. And he is soldoff, as you said, as a slave.
And so you kind of see him. He'skind of propelled into this
world and ends up in a crimeworld and you have to read the
book to find out how, but itjust so through his eyes, you
see him kind of seeing all theappeal, and all the kind of sad
(08:52):
things and why he makes hischoices, which really, I don't
think he had a lot more a lot ofchoices. So you mentioned the
Godfather, Rubin comparisons tothe godfather. And I also read a
comparison pillar comparing itto the Great Gatsby. Do you see
that?
Geoff Mair (09:10):
I don't agree with the Gatsby. I don't actually
think that's a very goodcomparison. I think the
Godfather is a very goodcomparison. You know, other than
Unknown (09:18):
there was a big car crash right in The Great Gatsby
maybe that Yeah, and I think
Geoff Mair (09:23):
that he sees himself as like this this kind of noble
sort of, like, creator of a newnew culture kind of likes any
word. Yeah, that's really theonly parallel that I would see
and they throw big parties. Butthat's that's really the only
parallel I saw there. i To me,it's too much the godfather to
(09:45):
be Gatsby.
Unknown (09:47):
Um, okay, one of the things you had mentioned was how
much you'd liked the sense ofplace like I will agree with
that. This book was too violentfor me. That's just the bottom
line for me like i i I get it, Iget the appeal. And why would
it? It would appeal to people,but it goes into, you know, you
get it. It's pretty violent.
(10:09):
Yeah. It's some very dark partsof the book for sure. It's
also incredibly long, which Ithink it's a lot to ask people.
It's at some I think it's 550pages. So it's a commitment. But
one of the things I was going toask you, Jeff, you mentioned
that you really enjoyed thesense of place in the sense of
(10:29):
kind of the sights and sounds ofIndia, because this book takes
place kind of all over India andthe coast and the mountains and
a new kind of super busy, NewDelhi. And I would agree with
you that sense of place wasvery, very visceral. And right
before I met you, you wereplanning to go to India to
travel and explore the country.
You didn't end up going yourparents kibosh that plan. You
(10:52):
ended up going to grad schooland you met me instead.
I didn't go to India. Yeah, Iguess that would have changed
and changed. Changed our future,that's for sure. But what was it
at that time that drew you tothe country and, and when, as
an, you know, middle aged personnow reading this book, what,
(11:15):
what
Geoff Mair (11:17):
I think when I was young, what I really wanted to
do was go somewhere that waslike, completely culturally
different to where I had grownup. That's what appealed to me,
I think India is known as beingkind of a very, almost
culturally overwhelming place tovisit. And that's what I was
really looking for when I was inmy youth, something completely
different. You know, in terms oflike, what I, what I enjoyed
(11:41):
about, you know, learning aboutIndian culture in the book, I
think it's something that Ithought was really interesting
was kind of the differencebetween class and wealth in
India, I thought the book did agood job of describing that. And
I thought that was reallyinteresting aspect of Indian
culture that I, you know, soexplain, explain that. Well,
(12:03):
there's a part of the book whereSonny wordier, who's probably
one of the wealthiest people in,in India is driving around and
netas car, which is a piece ofcrap. And he talks to her all
about how she can probably drivein a piece of crap car into the
fanciest hotel anywhere in Indiaand get great service, because
she's upper class, and everybodycould tell she's upper class.
Unknown (12:25):
So this is a good time to talk a little bit about deep
tea and her kind of her process.
And a little bit about her. Soshe's a young writer, a title a
couple of age, I don't know. Butyou know how everyone looks when
you get older, everyone looksyoung, so I can't tell. She says
she could be 30, she could be40. But she's young. And she
came from an educated family.
(12:50):
And she went to university,which puts her in one of the
highest classes. And sheactually was a journalist. And
she lived and worked as areporter in New Delhi. And what
she has said is that she hadrich friends, so she actually
glimpsed and that would makesense if she was true, because
(13:11):
she's one of the she wasn'tlike, super rich herself, but
had a glimpse into the life thatshe's writing about here. And
she says that her creativeprocess, she said, I won't say
too much about it, or I don'tknow how, but that the
characters that she writes aboutare all composites of people
(13:32):
either she knows or that she'sseen from afar. And then she
builds on these characters andthey sort of come to life
organically. And you know, a lotof you hear this from a lot of
authors, like once a charactergets started, they start to say
things kind of almost likethey're taking over the keyboard
talking. So she did say theysort of built themselves but
(13:53):
yeah, they they're based on truecharacters. And AJ was someone I
think she met on like a coastaltown like, and she just sort of
imagined them more, but somewhen she was working as a
journalist, she saw a lot. Theimplication is that she saw
corruption. And she took notesand hoped she didn't know if she
(14:16):
was gonna write a book but shesort of thought there's a lot
here to work with. And she alsowanted to show all the decadence
and kind of sorrow and New Delhilike New Delhi, I've never been
but
Geoff Mair (14:32):
I thought that was some things you did really well.
Like it's a quite a dark book,but but the fun the fun part of
the book is like this reallyopulent, you know, crazy
spending that goes on, becauseit makes it kind of like fun as
well.
Unknown (14:50):
This is her second book in 2015. She wrote her debut
which was called a badcharacter. And it's a story
about a young woman and that inIndia, and another thing this
book is set as a plannedtrilogy. So this is the first
one. And I think some of theminor characters and I think AJ
(15:13):
might may or may see more of himin the next one.
Geoff Mair (15:16):
But I would say to read the next one, I will read
the other, at least another one.
It was great book, I reallyenjoyed it.
Unknown (15:23):
A couple positive things I will say from my point
of view, the author is young andfemale, and it's also fresh and
modern. It wasn't my taste, butit was I can see that it was,
it's edgy. And the other thingthat I think it does well is it
does dance between popular andliterary fiction, which I'm
(15:45):
always kind of looking for thatespecially on this podcast,
because I think a lot of peoplelike that. I agree that good
sweets, a good sweet spot,literary, but it's not not
literally some literary aspectsto it for sure, and big themes.
Okay, so hopefully that's a nuffinfo for people to decide
whether the book is right forthem. Oh, and FX has bought the
(16:09):
rights to this book, it's goingto become a show or movie of
some type. And this was goodmorning America's book club
selection for January,
Geoff Mair (16:19):
it would make a really good movie or TV series.
Unknown (16:24):
The next book we're going to talk about is the villa
by Rachel Hawkins. So the villais a thriller. It's a book about
toxic female friendships. AndRachel Hawkins is known for her
thrillers. She is the author ofthe wife upstairs, which was one
(16:45):
of my former book club Peck formy book club, reckless girls
more recently, and she's alsowritten a slew of way novels and
has a passion for Gothicliterature. So it's kind of a
lot going on here. This book iseverywhere. You may have seen
(17:06):
it, it has a beautiful turquoisecover with lemons and lemon
leaves and blossoms. And thenthere's this kind of crack down
the middle. And it looks like itcould be this is like a
painting. That's an old paintingthat's been torn or piece of
pottery that's been ripped. So Ithought that was a really
(17:27):
beautiful cover. And this is amash up of a lot of different
styles. And I think that thiswould be a popular, this could
be a popular book club pick ifyou're looking for something
lighter. And it would also be agreat beach beach read and a
(17:49):
great escapist read. And it'sheavy, popular. It's heavy on
popular fiction, but has alittle bit of Overbite a little
bit of with a backstory. Whatdoes that sound like to you? Are
you interested?
Geoff Mair (18:04):
You know, typically be the type of book I'd be as
interested in. But you describeit as, you know, Daisy Jones on
the sixth leg, and I love DaisyJohnson. So that part piqued my
interest.
Unknown (18:18):
Okay, well, so I'm going to now explain there's a
few different storylines, and itsounds complicated. It's really
not that complicated. But um,we'll talk about the Daisy
Johnson six, because I thinkyou're gonna have some thoughts
around that. But okay, so the,the premise the the starting
premise of the book is therethese two friends, Emily and
chess and their childhoodfriends, and they're both
(18:40):
authors now in their 30s, justas super successful and write
self help books. And then Emily,who's the primary narrator, she
writes cozy mysteries, but she'skind of sort of successful.
Like, I mean, I would think ifshe's published, I think that's
successful, but not as wellknown. She's in the middle of a
(19:00):
divorce and her husband wantshalf her earnings and our future
earnings. So then, Justin, her akind of frenemies, like they
have a long history, but justreappears in Emily's life. And
she's like, going on a girlstrip. I've rented a villa in
Orvieto, Italy, and let's go,let's get away and reconnect.
And Emily's like, it's a goodtime to get out of town. So then
(19:23):
they get there, and the house isgorgeous. There's a beautiful
setting food and wine. But whilethey're there, they find out
that this villa was the site ofa famous murder that happened
one summer, where a group ofmusicians from the early 70s got
together kind of for like acrazy summer, and some bad
(19:47):
things happened. So that's thefirst storyline and then there's
a dueling storyline. And that isthere's flashbacks to that
summer, and that was 1974. Andthis is the whole like, Hey,
Daisy Johnson, the sixth vibe.
And it was a villa that wasrented by the notorious rock
star star, no Gordon, and heinvites an up and coming
(20:08):
musician, Pierre Sheldon, aswell as Pierce's girlfriend,
Mary, and stepsister Lera. Tojoin. And so they have this kind
of crazy summer with sex, drugs,and rock and roll. That's
perfect. That's fun. Yeah, like,it's, um, that is fine. Of
(20:29):
course, I liked the otherstoryline better. But you would
like this one better. I like thefirst storyline, because I just
sort of thought, oh, gosh, it'dbe so fun to go on, like a girls
trip. And like, there's a womanwho brings like, sometimes
clicks their meals and doestheir grocery shopping. And it's
like, beautiful blue waters. AndI like that sounds pretty
(20:53):
appealing. But I can see why.
The other part sounds moreinteresting to me, though. More
fun.
Yeah. And so then then there's alittle bit of another storyline.
So of course, the girls, thewomen get there, and they're
like, wait a minute, they startto find out more about that
summer. And they start to thinkmaybe there's more than what was
(21:17):
originally put in the news.
Like, maybe there's, maybe maybethere's more to the story. And
at the very same time, and we'reseeing this more and more in
literature, there's twopodcasters they appear in a
separate storyline. And theyhave a podcast called Two Girls
One murder. And they are young,kind of a little millennial
like, and they are currentlyinvestigating what really
(21:40):
happened that summer 1974. Andthey think the murder needs to
be reinvestigated. And sothey're doing that on their
podcast. So that's happening.
Yeah. And then the very lastpart, which I think was kind of
oversold, because it's reallyinterests me. The final, there's
(22:01):
a final storyline that'simplied. And the author herself.
Rachel Hawkins, she's reallyinterested in Gothic literature
or the Gothic time period. Andshe's really interested in Lord
Byron, and in the 18th was 1816,Lord Byron, rented a home unlike
(22:22):
a castle on Lake Geneva, and hehad a wild group of people that
came up and that was MaryShelley, who wrote Frankenstein,
Percy Shelley, her husband's.
And then Lord Byron's Dr. JohnPolidori. And while they were
there, they call it It's beencalled the summer without a
summer like it was super rainyand dark that summer. And they
(22:47):
sat around telling each otherghost stories. And they were
considered as wild as kind ofmusicians from the 60s. Because
Mary Shelley was like 17 yearsold, and Percy Shelley was
married. And they were runningaround Europe together, she
eventually gets pregnant. Andit's just was kind of considered
(23:08):
like the crazy 60s thought, inthe 1800s. So what happened was
the author sort of thought, thisis kind of making me think of
100 years later. And that's whyshe picked up this kind of 1970
Crazy musician thing going on.
(23:28):
But what she did as a nod wasshe took all the characters and
kind of gave them names. Solike, there's a Percy, in the
1970 version, there's a Mary. Sothat's kind of her nod. But I
wanted more because it says onthe back, talks about
Frankenstein talk about and thisis where Frankenstein was
conceived. So and also, thefirst vampire story called The
(23:50):
Vampire was also conceived hereby another one of the guests.
But that's all there is. That'sthe only real connection is that
there was a castle by
Geoff Mair (23:58):
the for the author, it's a bigger connection,
because she based the wholething on it in in her mind and
writing it but as a reader, it'snot as obvious.
Unknown (24:08):
Yeah, and she does use some Gothic conventions, like
there's a missing manuscript.
And there's a house like a houseis often the character in these
gothic novels. And, you know,there's a bit of a mystery. So.
But yeah, I wanted a little bitmore. And I got so interested in
this kind of timeline. I'm goingto be having on Route retired
(24:29):
SFU, Professor Mason Harris onnext month, and he's going to
talk about Rankin the making ofFrankenstein, the novel, and
also this whole wild crew andtheir backstory. So what do you
think about that in questions?
(24:49):
No, it
Geoff Mair (24:50):
sounds like an interesting book. Sounds like
it's got any, you know, severalinteresting storylines, and you
know, isn't it? It has a funaspect to it, too.
Unknown (24:59):
Yeah. mean, it sounds like the way I described it
might sound like it'scomplicated. It's really not.
It's just kind of fun. Andanother, it's also a nod to
Exile on Main Street was createdat a villa in France, The
Rolling Stones went there onesummer, and I think they were
kind of crazy. There'sreferences implied to Fleetwood
(25:23):
Mac and the Manson murders. So,um, but it I think this book on
balance is a little too popularfiction for me. But what I would
do, I tend to read, as Imentioned before, a more
challenging book. And then Ilove a little bit of a lighter
book as a palate cleanser. And Ireally did enjoy this book. So
(25:46):
and I think a lot of listenerswould, too. So. Okay, and our
last segment, we're going totalk about what we're watching
right now. And Jeff has had alot of time to watch programs.
I've watched all of Netflix,you've watched all of Netflix.
So what do you recommend, Jeff?
Geoff Mair (26:07):
So the show I'm going to recommend today is
called Shantaram is very closelytied to a device because it's
all about the underbelly andsort of Mafia of India. So the
story follows main character whois an escaped convict from
Australia, he flees to India andgets really sort of closely tied
(26:32):
to the underbelly and sort ofcriminal world in India. And so
the parallels between age adviceand Shantaram are really a lot
like there's you know, there'smafia people who think they're
going to recreate India andmodernize India, they see
themselves as, you know, reallymoral people that really,
(26:55):
they're like, their crime lords.
It's very, you know, has a lotof similarities to the book, the
book we read this time around.
So Shantaram is based on anovel, it was written by
Gregory, David Roberts. Andwhat's interesting is, Roberts
was actually an escaped convict.
And he based and he escapedIndia, and he actually based the
book on himself. And heobviously had a pretty big ego,
(27:18):
because the main character islike, kind of a Christ figure.
And yeah, so that made it kindof interesting, because this
Christ figures kind of subtlywoven throughout of the story.
And yeah, it's a really funshow. I really recommend it. Um,
Unknown (27:37):
so this sounds more appealing to me than age advice.
Primarily. No offense, Jeff, butsome of my girlfriends have
recommended it. So Chandra,yeah, both the book and the
show.
I think they like it because ofwhat's his name fairly.
He's not bad looking.
I will admit, he's a prettyfunky character.
(27:58):
No, but they just I just thinkit sounds like something I try.
Geoff Mair (28:04):
Yeah, it's maybe not as heavy as a device. It's more
sexy and fun. And it's a littlemore lighthearted. And there's,
there's more hope in it. Adevice doesn't really feel like
there's a lot of hope in it.
Shantaram like, it kind of hasthis, I would say Christ thing
going on throughout it. And it'smuch more hopeful.
Unknown (28:24):
Okay, so I wanted to recommend a show, which we
watched, which I think peoplewould like called party down.
And this was recommended to meby my friend Jill, and it is
currently on crave. And it is anolder show. It came out. Season
One came out in 2009. Season twocame out in 2010. But why it's
(28:48):
getting a bit of buzz right nowis they've waited and they've
just done season three and it'sa cult classic, written partly
by Paul Rudd. And it's a bitlike the office in LA and it's
about a group of random want tobe actors. And they're all
trying to make it in Hollywoodin order before they make it.
(29:12):
They're working for a posh lacatering company. So each show
they go to all kinds ofdifferent events. Like a senior
singles, mixer a porn war wordsafter party, a super sweet 16
Bash. And so you can imaginehilarious this that ensues.
(29:32):
Yeah.
And it's got a lot of peoplethat you guys will recognize on
it.
Geoff Mair (29:40):
I've watched a couple episodes. It's pretty
it's pretty fun.
Unknown (29:43):
Yeah, so I think and apparently Jennifer Coolidge is
on it, which now Lizzie KaplanJane Lynch mechana Lolly and
Jennifer Garner apparently is inthis season. And Zoey child from
the app After Party, which isalso hilarious. She's on it.
(30:04):
Yeah. So anyway, I think peoplethat come for something that's
Geoff Mair (30:08):
yeah. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun. It's smart. Okay.
well written.
Unknown (30:14):
All right. Well, I think that's it for now. And
anything else you want to add?
Geoff Mair (30:19):
No, I really enjoyed doing podcasts with you today.
Unknown (30:23):
Thank you. Thanks for editing. I appreciate that. And
I feel like I have a staff Ihave like, it makes me more does
it make me more efficient?
Does it much more efficient?
So the books again, our ageadvice by deep tea Kapoor and
the villa by Rachel Hopkins, andwe're getting close to the end
(30:45):
of our third season. Can youbelieve it?
Wow, you've been working hard inYeah.
And so we have a few moreepisodes to go. But I wanted to
encourage people again to sendus a voicemail, because I love
getting feedback. And we couldplay that on a future show or
give me some ideas for futureepisodes. So thanks so much for
(31:09):
tuning in. And thanks, Jeff, forcoming on podcasts. Awesome.
Thanks, everyone. Okay, bye.
So long as we did His work, whatever else we did short
of Killing cops, we hadprotection. I had a great
education there. I understoodthe turning of the wheel, how
the cops and the politicians andthe bureaucrats were all working
together to keep this wheel inmotion. However he spoke of the
wheel was important how thewheel was a system itself. How
(00:22):
men like you are the shit thatsticks to the wheel. How wheel
crushes everything in its path.
And oh, what a crushing it was.
We indulged in extortion,collecting protection, money
from businesses, or else burningthem down. We commit many
kidnappings for ransom. We killour opponents stage riots,
manage protests, if the minoritycommunity became upstarts, we
(00:46):
burn their neighborhoods down.
If some misguided citizen triedto complain about us, go to the
media, or the new districtmagistrate we break their legs,
or else we kill the journalistthemselves. We had to make sure
the message was clear. As longas you know your place and don't
interfere, the wheel turns verywell. But if you wish to be a
hero, goodbye.
(01:26):
Hello, welcome back to the RedFern book review. I'm your host,
Amy Mair. And today I'm joinedby my co host, Jeff Mair. Hi,
Jeff. Hi, Amy, how's it going?
It's good. We're here to discusstwo of the buzziest books of
early 2023. We're going to talkabout the fast pace gangster
(01:48):
novels set in India, called theage advice by Deepti Kapoor and
that was the opening quote thatI gave, and a friendship travel
story thriller with Daisy Jonesin the six vibes, called the
villa by Rachel Hopkins. Butbefore we get started, Jeff, I
(02:10):
wanted to thank you and pointout to listeners that you might
be hearing new sounds on thispodcast and hopefully, better
edits because you've taken overas executive producer.
Geoff Mair (02:27):
Yeah, I'm really excited to be doing the edits,
because I think I can do apretty good job on them. Yeah.
Unknown (02:34):
So people are, have been very supportive of this
podcast. But I have had a fewcomments over the last couple of
years that sometimes the musicjust stops, and there's the cuts
are kind of severe. So
Geoff Mair (02:53):
I've suggested that the few times that I that I
could make them better, and Ithink, so far it's working,
Unknown (02:59):
and even picked up a little made music a little
jazzier. Yeah,
Geoff Mair (03:04):
I mean, I picked little jazz, your section of
music. So it's a little moreupbeat at the start of the show.
Unknown (03:09):
So this dovetails with what you're doing in your spare
time, which to tell everyoneabout what what you've been up
to, because you you've had alittle back story, we've
mentioned it before, but you'vehad double knee replacement
surgeries. Yeah,
Geoff Mair (03:23):
so I got some time on my hands, like a lot of time
on my hands. So and I knew I wasgoing to have a lot of time on
the hands coming up. So Idecided to take up a new hobby,
which is DJing. Because it kindof blends two things I love. I
love music, and I love tech andlike DJing and kind of mixing
music is a very techy endeavorthat that, you know, also brings
(03:47):
a music and I love music. So I'mlearning to edit sound now as a
hobby, and it's awesome for theshow, because I get to edit
sound in the show, too.
Unknown (03:56):
So maybe when you're ready, we can debut one of your
mixes on the Red Fern.
I don't know if it's the rightaudience. But
anyway, let's talk about thebooks. So the first book we're
going to talk about, I thinkthis discussion is going to play
(04:17):
out a little bit about like the1991 movie with Kevin Bacon
called. He Said, She Said, andit's about journalists with
dueling perspectives. Do youremember that movie? I did?
Anyway, we're pretty divided onthis book, this first book. So
the first book we're going totalk about is Asia vise. And
(04:40):
it's a contemporary novel set inIndia. And it's equal parts
thriller and family saga, and itcenters around the wadiya crime
family. And this book is aboutgangsters, lovers, false
friendships, forbidden romance,and corruption of lot of
(05:00):
corruption and highlights thehuge disparity in wealth between
classes, highlights poverty,government corruption and
organized crime. And I reallythought it was about a lot of it
was about the lack of choicepeople have on either side of
the spectrum as well, the bookliterally starts with a bang.
(05:23):
And in the very first pages, itstarts like a, like an action
movie. It's, we're in New Delhi,it's 3am. And a speeding,
Mercedes jumps the curb, andmoves over five people. And the
car is owned by someone verywealthy. But when the whole
(05:43):
thing's over, it's the servantsthat takes the blame. And we're,
that's how it starts. And wedon't know anything more, except
all of a sudden, this personnamed Aj is left kind of
literally holding the bag. Andthat's kind of that's like kind
of the setup, the kickoff. Andso it really was fast moving and
(06:09):
dramatic as the book the wholerest of the book remains. And,
Jeff, you really liked thisbook. And I'd like you to tell
everybody why.
Geoff Mair (06:19):
For various reasons, I think the first is like, I
thought the author did a reallygood job of transporting the
reader into another culture. Youknow, the book is kind of like,
has elements of the Godfather init for sure, but set in India.
So you really learned about, youknow, the Indian, Indian mafia
and Indian culture, and I reallyfelt like I was transported
(06:40):
into, you know, another world. Ireally liked the characters and
and sort of the moral conflictsthat they had. And I thought I
felt like the moral conflictsthat the characters had sort of
reflected the moral conflictsthat exist in Indian culture.
What like, here's some someexamples of moral conflicts.
(07:03):
Like there's Netta, who's ajournalist, you know, supposed
to be ethical, but she's also apart of the story. You know,
she's there, sonny, who's likethis, descend into the mob, and
he's like this mob son, but healso sees himself as a
moderniser of New Delhi and likethis really good. You know, a
(07:23):
lot of the mob characters seethemselves as almost like
politicians. And I think that'sa really moral conflict. And
then the other one that I reallyliked is when Aj is sold into
slavery, and there's thecharacters my mommy and daddy
who, you know, think they'revery moral treat him like
(07:43):
they're his son, but he's reallya slave, you know, that those
kinds of moral complex in thebook, I think, are super
interesting. I love the middlepart of the book where there's
like this sort of out ofcontrol, romance going on
between Netta and Sunni. Andjust generally, I thought the
book was, you know, a pretty,pretty realistic depiction of
what goes on in the gaming worldin India. But it was really
(08:06):
interesting.
Unknown (08:07):
So AJ, who just mentioned was the person stuck
with the speedy Mercedes, at thevery beginning of the novel, and
the author, deep tea, says thathe is the heart of the book, he
was my favorite character. And,and as Jeff mentioned, he came
from very difficultcircumstances really had
(08:29):
nothing, nobody. And he is soldoff, as you said, as a slave.
And so you kind of see him. He'skind of propelled into this
world and ends up in a crimeworld and you have to read the
book to find out how, but itjust so through his eyes, you
see him kind of seeing all theappeal, and all the kind of sad
(08:52):
things and why he makes hischoices, which really, I don't
think he had a lot more a lot ofchoices. So you mentioned the
Godfather, Rubin comparisons tothe godfather. And I also read a
comparison pillar comparing itto the Great Gatsby. Do you see
that?
Geoff Mair (09:10):
I don't agree with the Gatsby. I don't actually
think that's a very goodcomparison. I think the
Godfather is a very goodcomparison. You know, other than
Unknown (09:18):
there was a big car crash right in The Great Gatsby
maybe that Yeah, and I think
Geoff Mair (09:23):
that he sees himself as like this this kind of noble
sort of, like, creator of a newnew culture kind of likes any
word. Yeah, that's really theonly parallel that I would see
and they throw big parties. Butthat's that's really the only
parallel I saw there. i To me,it's too much the godfather to
(09:45):
be Gatsby.
Unknown (09:47):
Um, okay, one of the things you had mentioned was how
much you'd liked the sense ofplace like I will agree with
that. This book was too violentfor me. That's just the bottom
line for me like i i I get it, Iget the appeal. And why would
it? It would appeal to people,but it goes into, you know, you
get it. It's pretty violent.
(10:09):
Yeah. It's some very dark partsof the book for sure. It's
also incredibly long, which Ithink it's a lot to ask people.
It's at some I think it's 550pages. So it's a commitment. But
one of the things I was going toask you, Jeff, you mentioned
that you really enjoyed thesense of place in the sense of
(10:29):
kind of the sights and sounds ofIndia, because this book takes
place kind of all over India andthe coast and the mountains and
a new kind of super busy, NewDelhi. And I would agree with
you that sense of place wasvery, very visceral. And right
before I met you, you wereplanning to go to India to
travel and explore the country.
You didn't end up going yourparents kibosh that plan. You
(10:52):
ended up going to grad schooland you met me instead.
I didn't go to India. Yeah, Iguess that would have changed
and changed. Changed our future,that's for sure. But what was it
at that time that drew you tothe country and, and when, as
an, you know, middle aged personnow reading this book, what,
(11:15):
what
Geoff Mair (11:17):
I think when I was young, what I really wanted to
do was go somewhere that waslike, completely culturally
different to where I had grownup. That's what appealed to me,
I think India is known as beingkind of a very, almost
culturally overwhelming place tovisit. And that's what I was
really looking for when I was inmy youth, something completely
different. You know, in terms oflike, what I, what I enjoyed
(11:41):
about, you know, learning aboutIndian culture in the book, I
think it's something that Ithought was really interesting
was kind of the differencebetween class and wealth in
India, I thought the book did agood job of describing that. And
I thought that was reallyinteresting aspect of Indian
culture that I, you know, soexplain, explain that. Well,
(12:03):
there's a part of the book whereSonny wordier, who's probably
one of the wealthiest people in,in India is driving around and
netas car, which is a piece ofcrap. And he talks to her all
about how she can probably drivein a piece of crap car into the
fanciest hotel anywhere in Indiaand get great service, because
she's upper class, and everybodycould tell she's upper class.
Unknown (12:25):
So this is a good time to talk a little bit about deep
tea and her kind of her process.
And a little bit about her. Soshe's a young writer, a title a
couple of age, I don't know. Butyou know how everyone looks when
you get older, everyone looksyoung, so I can't tell. She says
she could be 30, she could be40. But she's young. And she
came from an educated family.
(12:50):
And she went to university,which puts her in one of the
highest classes. And sheactually was a journalist. And
she lived and worked as areporter in New Delhi. And what
she has said is that she hadrich friends, so she actually
glimpsed and that would makesense if she was true, because
(13:11):
she's one of the she wasn'tlike, super rich herself, but
had a glimpse into the life thatshe's writing about here. And
she says that her creativeprocess, she said, I won't say
too much about it, or I don'tknow how, but that the
characters that she writes aboutare all composites of people
(13:32):
either she knows or that she'sseen from afar. And then she
builds on these characters andthey sort of come to life
organically. And you know, a lotof you hear this from a lot of
authors, like once a charactergets started, they start to say
things kind of almost likethey're taking over the keyboard
talking. So she did say theysort of built themselves but
(13:53):
yeah, they they're based on truecharacters. And AJ was someone I
think she met on like a coastaltown like, and she just sort of
imagined them more, but somewhen she was working as a
journalist, she saw a lot. Theimplication is that she saw
corruption. And she took notesand hoped she didn't know if she
(14:16):
was gonna write a book but shesort of thought there's a lot
here to work with. And she alsowanted to show all the decadence
and kind of sorrow and New Delhilike New Delhi, I've never been
but
Geoff Mair (14:32):
I thought that was some things you did really well.
Like it's a quite a dark book,but but the fun the fun part of
the book is like this reallyopulent, you know, crazy
spending that goes on, becauseit makes it kind of like fun as
well.
Unknown (14:50):
This is her second book in 2015. She wrote her debut
which was called a badcharacter. And it's a story
about a young woman and that inIndia, and another thing this
book is set as a plannedtrilogy. So this is the first
one. And I think some of theminor characters and I think AJ
(15:13):
might may or may see more of himin the next one.
Geoff Mair (15:16):
But I would say to read the next one, I will read
the other, at least another one.
It was great book, I reallyenjoyed it.
Unknown (15:23):
A couple positive things I will say from my point
of view, the author is young andfemale, and it's also fresh and
modern. It wasn't my taste, butit was I can see that it was,
it's edgy. And the other thingthat I think it does well is it
does dance between popular andliterary fiction, which I'm
(15:45):
always kind of looking for thatespecially on this podcast,
because I think a lot of peoplelike that. I agree that good
sweets, a good sweet spot,literary, but it's not not
literally some literary aspectsto it for sure, and big themes.
Okay, so hopefully that's a nuffinfo for people to decide
whether the book is right forthem. Oh, and FX has bought the
(16:09):
rights to this book, it's goingto become a show or movie of
some type. And this was goodmorning America's book club
selection for January,
Geoff Mair (16:19):
it would make a really good movie or TV series.
Unknown (16:24):
The next book we're going to talk about is the villa
by Rachel Hawkins. So the villais a thriller. It's a book about
toxic female friendships. AndRachel Hawkins is known for her
thrillers. She is the author ofthe wife upstairs, which was one
(16:45):
of my former book club Peck formy book club, reckless girls
more recently, and she's alsowritten a slew of way novels and
has a passion for Gothicliterature. So it's kind of a
lot going on here. This book iseverywhere. You may have seen
(17:06):
it, it has a beautiful turquoisecover with lemons and lemon
leaves and blossoms. And thenthere's this kind of crack down
the middle. And it looks like itcould be this is like a
painting. That's an old paintingthat's been torn or piece of
pottery that's been ripped. So Ithought that was a really
(17:27):
beautiful cover. And this is amash up of a lot of different
styles. And I think that thiswould be a popular, this could
be a popular book club pick ifyou're looking for something
lighter. And it would also be agreat beach beach read and a
(17:49):
great escapist read. And it'sheavy, popular. It's heavy on
popular fiction, but has alittle bit of Overbite a little
bit of with a backstory. Whatdoes that sound like to you? Are
you interested?
Geoff Mair (18:04):
You know, typically be the type of book I'd be as
interested in. But you describeit as, you know, Daisy Jones on
the sixth leg, and I love DaisyJohnson. So that part piqued my
interest.
Unknown (18:18):
Okay, well, so I'm going to now explain there's a
few different storylines, and itsounds complicated. It's really
not that complicated. But um,we'll talk about the Daisy
Johnson six, because I thinkyou're gonna have some thoughts
around that. But okay, so the,the premise the the starting
premise of the book is therethese two friends, Emily and
chess and their childhoodfriends, and they're both
(18:40):
authors now in their 30s, justas super successful and write
self help books. And then Emily,who's the primary narrator, she
writes cozy mysteries, but she'skind of sort of successful.
Like, I mean, I would think ifshe's published, I think that's
successful, but not as wellknown. She's in the middle of a
(19:00):
divorce and her husband wantshalf her earnings and our future
earnings. So then, Justin, her akind of frenemies, like they
have a long history, but justreappears in Emily's life. And
she's like, going on a girlstrip. I've rented a villa in
Orvieto, Italy, and let's go,let's get away and reconnect.
And Emily's like, it's a goodtime to get out of town. So then
(19:23):
they get there, and the house isgorgeous. There's a beautiful
setting food and wine. But whilethey're there, they find out
that this villa was the site ofa famous murder that happened
one summer, where a group ofmusicians from the early 70s got
together kind of for like acrazy summer, and some bad
(19:47):
things happened. So that's thefirst storyline and then there's
a dueling storyline. And that isthere's flashbacks to that
summer, and that was 1974. Andthis is the whole like, Hey,
Daisy Johnson, the sixth vibe.
And it was a villa that wasrented by the notorious rock
star star, no Gordon, and heinvites an up and coming
(20:08):
musician, Pierre Sheldon, aswell as Pierce's girlfriend,
Mary, and stepsister Lera. Tojoin. And so they have this kind
of crazy summer with sex, drugs,and rock and roll. That's
perfect. That's fun. Yeah, like,it's, um, that is fine. Of
(20:29):
course, I liked the otherstoryline better. But you would
like this one better. I like thefirst storyline, because I just
sort of thought, oh, gosh, it'dbe so fun to go on, like a girls
trip. And like, there's a womanwho brings like, sometimes
clicks their meals and doestheir grocery shopping. And it's
like, beautiful blue waters. AndI like that sounds pretty
(20:53):
appealing. But I can see why.
The other part sounds moreinteresting to me, though. More
fun.
Yeah. And so then then there's alittle bit of another storyline.
So of course, the girls, thewomen get there, and they're
like, wait a minute, they startto find out more about that
summer. And they start to thinkmaybe there's more than what was
(21:17):
originally put in the news.
Like, maybe there's, maybe maybethere's more to the story. And
at the very same time, and we'reseeing this more and more in
literature, there's twopodcasters they appear in a
separate storyline. And theyhave a podcast called Two Girls
One murder. And they are young,kind of a little millennial
like, and they are currentlyinvestigating what really
(21:40):
happened that summer 1974. Andthey think the murder needs to
be reinvestigated. And sothey're doing that on their
podcast. So that's happening.
Yeah. And then the very lastpart, which I think was kind of
oversold, because it's reallyinterests me. The final, there's
(22:01):
a final storyline that'simplied. And the author herself.
Rachel Hawkins, she's reallyinterested in Gothic literature
or the Gothic time period. Andshe's really interested in Lord
Byron, and in the 18th was 1816,Lord Byron, rented a home unlike
(22:22):
a castle on Lake Geneva, and hehad a wild group of people that
came up and that was MaryShelley, who wrote Frankenstein,
Percy Shelley, her husband's.
And then Lord Byron's Dr. JohnPolidori. And while they were
there, they call it It's beencalled the summer without a
summer like it was super rainyand dark that summer. And they
(22:47):
sat around telling each otherghost stories. And they were
considered as wild as kind ofmusicians from the 60s. Because
Mary Shelley was like 17 yearsold, and Percy Shelley was
married. And they were runningaround Europe together, she
eventually gets pregnant. Andit's just was kind of considered
(23:08):
like the crazy 60s thought, inthe 1800s. So what happened was
the author sort of thought, thisis kind of making me think of
100 years later. And that's whyshe picked up this kind of 1970
Crazy musician thing going on.
(23:28):
But what she did as a nod wasshe took all the characters and
kind of gave them names. Solike, there's a Percy, in the
1970 version, there's a Mary. Sothat's kind of her nod. But I
wanted more because it says onthe back, talks about
Frankenstein talk about and thisis where Frankenstein was
conceived. So and also, thefirst vampire story called The
(23:50):
Vampire was also conceived hereby another one of the guests.
But that's all there is. That'sthe only real connection is that
there was a castle by
Geoff Mair (23:58):
the for the author, it's a bigger connection,
because she based the wholething on it in in her mind and
writing it but as a reader, it'snot as obvious.
Unknown (24:08):
Yeah, and she does use some Gothic conventions, like
there's a missing manuscript.
And there's a house like a houseis often the character in these
gothic novels. And, you know,there's a bit of a mystery. So.
But yeah, I wanted a little bitmore. And I got so interested in
this kind of timeline. I'm goingto be having on Route retired
(24:29):
SFU, Professor Mason Harris onnext month, and he's going to
talk about Rankin the making ofFrankenstein, the novel, and
also this whole wild crew andtheir backstory. So what do you
think about that in questions?
(24:49):
No, it
Geoff Mair (24:50):
sounds like an interesting book. Sounds like
it's got any, you know, severalinteresting storylines, and you
know, isn't it? It has a funaspect to it, too.
Unknown (24:59):
Yeah. mean, it sounds like the way I described it
might sound like it'scomplicated. It's really not.
It's just kind of fun. Andanother, it's also a nod to
Exile on Main Street was createdat a villa in France, The
Rolling Stones went there onesummer, and I think they were
kind of crazy. There'sreferences implied to Fleetwood
(25:23):
Mac and the Manson murders. So,um, but it I think this book on
balance is a little too popularfiction for me. But what I would
do, I tend to read, as Imentioned before, a more
challenging book. And then Ilove a little bit of a lighter
book as a palate cleanser. And Ireally did enjoy this book. So
(25:46):
and I think a lot of listenerswould, too. So. Okay, and our
last segment, we're going totalk about what we're watching
right now. And Jeff has had alot of time to watch programs.
I've watched all of Netflix,you've watched all of Netflix.
So what do you recommend, Jeff?
Geoff Mair (26:07):
So the show I'm going to recommend today is
called Shantaram is very closelytied to a device because it's
all about the underbelly andsort of Mafia of India. So the
story follows main character whois an escaped convict from
Australia, he flees to India andgets really sort of closely tied
(26:32):
to the underbelly and sort ofcriminal world in India. And so
the parallels between age adviceand Shantaram are really a lot
like there's you know, there'smafia people who think they're
going to recreate India andmodernize India, they see
themselves as, you know, reallymoral people that really,
(26:55):
they're like, their crime lords.
It's very, you know, has a lotof similarities to the book, the
book we read this time around.
So Shantaram is based on anovel, it was written by
Gregory, David Roberts. Andwhat's interesting is, Roberts
was actually an escaped convict.
And he based and he escapedIndia, and he actually based the
book on himself. And heobviously had a pretty big ego,
(27:18):
because the main character islike, kind of a Christ figure.
And yeah, so that made it kindof interesting, because this
Christ figures kind of subtlywoven throughout of the story.
And yeah, it's a really funshow. I really recommend it. Um,
Unknown (27:37):
so this sounds more appealing to me than age advice.
Primarily. No offense, Jeff, butsome of my girlfriends have
recommended it. So Chandra,yeah, both the book and the
show.
I think they like it because ofwhat's his name fairly.
He's not bad looking.
I will admit, he's a prettyfunky character.
(27:58):
No, but they just I just thinkit sounds like something I try.
Geoff Mair (28:04):
Yeah, it's maybe not as heavy as a device. It's more
sexy and fun. And it's a littlemore lighthearted. And there's,
there's more hope in it. Adevice doesn't really feel like
there's a lot of hope in it.
Shantaram like, it kind of hasthis, I would say Christ thing
going on throughout it. And it'smuch more hopeful.
Unknown (28:24):
Okay, so I wanted to recommend a show, which we
watched, which I think peoplewould like called party down.
And this was recommended to meby my friend Jill, and it is
currently on crave. And it is anolder show. It came out. Season
One came out in 2009. Season twocame out in 2010. But why it's
(28:48):
getting a bit of buzz right nowis they've waited and they've
just done season three and it'sa cult classic, written partly
by Paul Rudd. And it's a bitlike the office in LA and it's
about a group of random want tobe actors. And they're all
trying to make it in Hollywoodin order before they make it.
(29:12):
They're working for a posh lacatering company. So each show
they go to all kinds ofdifferent events. Like a senior
singles, mixer a porn war wordsafter party, a super sweet 16
Bash. And so you can imaginehilarious this that ensues.
(29:32):
Yeah.
And it's got a lot of peoplethat you guys will recognize on
it.
Geoff Mair (29:40):
I've watched a couple episodes. It's pretty
it's pretty fun.
Unknown (29:43):
Yeah, so I think and apparently Jennifer Coolidge is
on it, which now Lizzie KaplanJane Lynch mechana Lolly and
Jennifer Garner apparently is inthis season. And Zoey child from
the app After Party, which isalso hilarious. She's on it.
(30:04):
Yeah. So anyway, I think peoplethat come for something that's
Geoff Mair (30:08):
yeah. Yeah, it's fun. It's fun. It's smart. Okay.
well written.
Unknown (30:14):
All right. Well, I think that's it for now. And
anything else you want to add?
Geoff Mair (30:19):
No, I really enjoyed doing podcasts with you today.
Unknown (30:23):
Thank you. Thanks for editing. I appreciate that. And
I feel like I have a staff Ihave like, it makes me more does
it make me more efficient?
Does it much more efficient?
So the books again, our ageadvice by deep tea Kapoor and
the villa by Rachel Hopkins, andwe're getting close to the end
(30:45):
of our third season. Can youbelieve it?
Wow, you've been working hard inYeah.
And so we have a few moreepisodes to go. But I wanted to
encourage people again to sendus a voicemail, because I love
getting feedback. And we couldplay that on a future show or
give me some ideas for futureepisodes. So thanks so much for
(31:09):
tuning in. And thanks, Jeff, forcoming on podcasts. Awesome.
Thanks, everyone. Okay, bye.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
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Law & Order: Criminal Justice System - Season 1 & Season 2
Season Two Out Now! Law & Order: Criminal Justice System tells the real stories behind the landmark cases that have shaped how the most dangerous and influential criminals in America are prosecuted. In its second season, the series tackles the threat of terrorism in the United States. From the rise of extremist political groups in the 60s to domestic lone wolves in the modern day, we explore how organizations like the FBI and Joint Terrorism Take Force have evolved to fight back against a multitude of terrorist threats.