November 24, 2023 • 46 mins
Lifestyle Instagrammer and best selling author Anna Kloots joins the podcast to discuss her new memoir My Own Magic. She talks about new beginnings in the face of divorce, her love of pumpkin pie, and of course, how to make your own magic.
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Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:31):
Hello, welcome back to the Red Fern book review. I am
your host, Amy Mair.
And today I have a very personaland also exciting interview with
Instagram, influencer and bestselling author Anna Kloots. And
(00:52):
she has written a really specialbook. It's a memoir about the
unraveling of her marriage, andher rebuilding of her life. And
it's called My Own Magic. Andthe name comes from, she was
married to a magician, a wellknown magician. And she
travelled the world for manyyears as the magician's
(01:15):
assistant. But things didn'twork out in the end. And at a
pretty young age, actually, shegot divorced at 30, and then
then rebuilt her life.
So anyway,you might wonder why I said it
was personal. It's personal,because very unexpectedly, my
marriage ended this year. I hadnever anticipated that
(01:43):
that would happen. And it did.
And for most of the year, myhusband and I tried to make it
work. And ultimately, wecouldn't. And it just kind of
ended officially about a monthago. And a couple of days in my
dear friend Susie came by withthis book. And at first, I
didn't really want to read itbecause well, I didn't really
want to read. So you know,things are bad when I don't feel
(02:05):
like reading. But on top of it,I had followed Anna, she's a
really fun aspirational sight.
If she lives in Paris, and she'sgot an amazing life and partner,
but because she's so muchyounger, and glamorous, I just
thought, what did she have tosay? But I was really surprised
(02:27):
thatshe had a lot to say, in fact.
So that's what our conversationis about. And I'm really excited
to be able to talk with her. Solet's move over and talk with
her now. Hi, Anna, thanks somuch for joining the podcast.
Oh, you're so welcome. Thank youfor having me. The first
question I want to ask you,because I follow you on
(02:49):
Instagram is how did your earlyThanksgiving go? And I am also
American living in Canada. Soit's not it's I'm adjacent. I'm
nearby but I was just kind ofwondering what how that
experience was and how did yourguests receive what you made.
(03:09):
It was surely so beautiful. Ihad never hosted Thanksgiving
before or cooked that whole mealon my own. And it to do it for
the first time here in Paris inmy apartment was was really
beautiful it like I one point Istarted kind of crying right
(03:31):
away. Because I put on like themusic my dad would play when he
would start cooking Thanksgivingdinner and then just instantly
those smells happen and whenit's the same recipes, you're
hit with these smells that likeI don't get care often because
we don't do those things. And Ibecame very nostalgic and I was
like tearing up of like, I can'tbelieve I'm this is like I'm a
(03:54):
grown up doing this in my Pariskitchen of this like apartment
in place I always wanted to livein and I'm doing this for my
French boyfriend's family. So itwas it was very beautiful, like
the whole process of cooking.
And then sharing that meal withwith people who didn't grow up
eating it and thought it was,you know, bizarre and fun. was
also a really fun chance toshare a bit of who I am and what
(04:18):
my culture is. Because you don'tdo that often. When you're
living in another country. It'sa lot of learning. You know,
you're the one who's displacedyourself and you're the visitor
and so you're doing the learningand you're doing the question
asking and the trying tounderstand and adapting. So it
was really fun to sort of for anafternoon, explain a bit about
(04:38):
my culture and share thoserecipes and traditions. Was
there a Was there something theyloved or didn't like that was
like an unusual taste for them.
Didn't like pumpkin pie theFrench the French don't like I
mean you hate to generalize manyFrench people I know. Do not
(04:58):
like cinnamon. ItIt's not a part of their cuisine
at all. Okay, just as like areally, it's a taste that they
don't enjoy. And then the samewith pumpkin. They don't they
don't cook pumpkin really theyhave pumpkin soup in the fall,
but it's not. It's not verypopular. So the concept of like
eating that as a dessert was notdid not go over well, I knew it
(05:21):
would be a long shot, but I feltlike I had to make them a
pumpkin pie. I was like, Istarted saying, You do not have
to like this. You don't have topretend you like this, if you
hate this, I understand. But Iwanted to make it for you.
Because I think it's the onlychance he will ever have to try
this. And so, you know, told mewhat you think. But it was
(05:41):
funny.
Okay, um, I wanted to ask you,you're a travel influencer,
among other things. And I wantedto know where your deep desire
from travel comes from, and whatperspective you feel the
extensive travel that you do isgiven you.
I tried to answer this question.
In my book, when I was writingmy memoir, I was trying to
(06:04):
define where did it come from,because we didn't travel a lot
as as kids and my family, therewere seven of us, we couldn't
afford to travel. And I didn'tknow, you know, I didn't really
have an education in indifferent places. So I truly
just have to believe that it wasinnate.
And I traced it back to books, Itraced it to loving my visits to
(06:29):
the library as a little kid, andchecking out all these books
that i i read, like, you know,religiously, all through my
life. And those were my firstkind of like adventures and
escapes. And I remember reading,you know, the Chronicles of
Narnia and being like, what isTurkish delight, I want to try
that I want to walk through awardrobe and I would read these
(06:49):
books called, but like it wasthe life of Georgia, Nicholson,
they were like her diaries, andshe would lived in England, and
then she went to Scotland in NewZealand. And, like, that's how I
learned about those places. Andthat made me want to go to those
places. So I really think it wasthat it was these like, I
transported myself through booksfirst and then it made me want
to go have that experience.
(07:12):
Okay, so let's, let's talk aboutthe memoir, I was wondering,
just a little, a littlebackstory, what happened was, I
had mentioned this to you and Ireached out that my marriage is
ending unexpectedly. And a dearfriend bought brought your book
by. And I really didn't want toread it, because like, it was
(07:33):
given to me within the firstweek, and I followed you on
Instagram, because you're funand kind of aspirational for me,
and you're beautiful, and allthis stuff. And I was like, I do
not want to read her book, andyou're also a lot younger, and
then all of a sudden, it just,it really
helped me a lot. And I was justkind of wondering, What Why do
(07:58):
you think this book is reachingpeople that I mean, I just
didn't think I could relate to Iwant I want to maybe be like,
you can't relate and I found itvery relatable.
That really makes me so happy.
That's the best review andcompliment anyone could ever
give the project I spent fouryears working on because that
(08:19):
was completely my intent. Iwrote it to help people feel
seen and, and to relate to thesituation that that I went
through because I knewregardless of how different our
lives are as, as people aswomen, regardless of age and
(08:41):
location, and all the otherfactors, we we deal with this
loss of selfalmost universally, and whether
it's from a relationship as itoften is, and that could be a
romantic relationship or youknow, a friend a family member
it can be or you can loseyourself and your job. People
(09:02):
have told me they lostthemselves temporarily and
motherhood there there's so manythings that you get involved
with because you love you know,the intent is good, but then you
end up really kind of losingsight of yourself because you
are you know in the in the nameof love and goodness, you just
keep giving and giving andgiving of your time and your
(09:25):
needs and your own, you know,desires and dreams because
you're you're making somethinghappen for someone or something
else. And I I really felt likewe don't talk about that enough.
And when I started going throughmy divorce I I really felt very
(09:46):
alone because I didn't reallyhave anyone to relate to most of
my friends. You know, I gotdivorced at 30 Most of my
friends in New York weren't evenengaged yet. They you know, no
one had been through divorce isthat
I had from my sister, and eventhen it was a very different
situation. So she could help mein many ways, but but also, you
(10:07):
know, not in others. And I, Iwent to a bookstore, trying to
find a book to make me feelbetter. Because, you know, as I
said, like books were justalways my outlet for inspiration
and help and everything. And I,I was going to the bookstore
that day and couldn't findanything that I liked. And I, I
kind of just said, I want towrite a book that I would want
(10:29):
to pick up right now. That isjust someone I could relate to,
where it works out better in theend, because I really did
believe it would work outbetter. I knew it was the right
thing. And I knew I would getthere. But I just needed to feel
like I wasn't crazy. I wasn'tthe only person in the world
having these thoughts. I wasn'tthe only person that were all
there was lost. And, and sothat's just sort of what I
(10:53):
wrote. And I think, I think thetrue, like, the reason people
connect to that is because it isthis very universal thing, that
you may not have someone in yourimmediate group of family or
friends that you're comfortabletalking about something so
deeply complex and painfulabout.
But to be able to relate tosomeone on paper is is almost
(11:17):
just as powerful.
I, I agree with all of that now.
Okay, I have a lot of questions.
So the first question I wantedto ask you is about your
relationship to change. And whenI look back, as my marriage was
unraveling this year, I realizednow one of the main reasons I
(11:39):
didn't want it to end is Ididn't want anything to change.
And I don't really like change.
And I just couldn't envisionbeing alone or being without my
husband. It's just I just wantedit all to be the same. And I
wanted to know, I mean, you madea big move after your divorce.
But what is your relationship tochange and post divorce? Or
(11:59):
like, how do you, I can feelthat I can, I mean, I'm just at
the beginning of this journey,but I have a feeling I'm going
to be more well, I don't have achoice I have to change. So I
just want to know what you how,how you relate to that right
now. I think that I felt exactlythat same way. And I I was, you
(12:19):
know, I wasn't the one who endedmy marriage. My ex husband was
but I, I wasn't happy. But I wastoo afraid to end it for that
same reason. I was like, Well,what would the next chapter look
like? All I know, is this personand even though I'm not
actually, you know, I felt likethat's like your comfort zone,
(12:40):
right? Like, we don't wantchange, because we think we're
the comfort zone. But you haveto stop and ask, like, is this
comfort zone actuallycomfortable? Like, am I happy
here? Is this working? And ifthe answer is no, which a lot of
the time it is, then in my head,you really only stand to gain.
(13:01):
Because if things are not good,if you change it up, you have
the ability to fix what's wrongto make it better to rethink it.
And, and you in going throughthat moment of rebuilding,
everything becomes reallyintentional. And I I realized
(13:22):
that as I was in this, you know,kind of like at ground zero of
of my divorce and was going intookay, everything has to change.
But I realized a I've done thisbefore I have we all have, we've
all left our parents home to goto college, we've all left that
dorm and this you know to movehere, we've all moved to a city
(13:45):
for a new job, we've, we've allhad it on these small levels. So
when you look back, you have togive yourself credit for what
you have already done. Andrealized there have already been
a lot of times in my life wherebig change has happened. And
more often than not, it probablyprobably resulted in good. And
new, new friends, new hobbies,new experiences, new
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developments, new jobs, likeusually you grow when you
change. And so I really wentback I took all that inventory.
And then I looked at it as thisopportunity to have a reality
that I was truly comfortable andhappy with instead of living in
this place of like I don't wantanything to change. I'm just
(14:27):
gonna stay here even though I'mnot happy with it. And and when
you start rebuilding, you reallydo get to say like, Okay, what
am I going to, you know, evenjust waking up on my own for the
first time I was like, Okay, Iused to wake up and have to
like, be silent, because I'm anearly riser and my ex husband
wasn't so I'd be like, tiptoeingaround our apartment and not
turning any lights on and youknow, in the same that's the
(14:48):
same with clothes out of thecloset to go to the gym and just
hoping I need to wake him upbecause I didn't want to feel
bad. So then I wake up on my ownand I'm like, How do I want my
day to start? Do I want to wakeup early to it?
Want to sleep in, likeeverything got a reset? And then
like absolutely everything whatit because so much of my life I
was living for someone else andaround their needs or rules or
(15:12):
restrictions. And so everythingbecame so intentional. And
that's when I decided to move toFrance. I was like, Do I even
want to live in New Yorkanymore? Or am I just living
here because I've been livinghere. And so I was like, I'm
doing what I want to do. I'mmoving to France. And I realized
I'm waking up, I blasting music,and I'm dancing, I don't have to
tiptoe around in the darkanymore. I get to spend my
(15:34):
morning how I want to spend mymorning, I'm buying a coffee
machine, because I wasn'tallowed to have one before I buy
a coffee machine. And I'm gonnaspend my mornings drinking
coffee and dancing with themusic blasting and like, the
smallest thing like that makesthe hugest positive change to
very quickly, you start to lookback and go. I don't know how I
(15:57):
used to live like that. I don'tknow how I let myself live in
that place for so long. And Iwould have kept living like
that, and never discovered thejoy waiting on the other side of
this growth.
Okay, what about the power ofsaying yes, post divorce? You've
talked about that as well. YouYou said you went through a
(16:20):
phase where you just kind ofsaid yes to everything. And tell
me about that.
Yeah, I think that a lot of thatwas just part of, of that of
what I was saying of this, likeintentional rebuilding of my
life. I didn't want to just fallinto the old habits of what I
would do and what didn't do justbecause it was what I was used
(16:42):
to. And when I moved here,specifically, I I was like,
Okay, I don't know anyone. Idon't know, what it's like to
really live here. And so saying,yes. Sort of just became my rule
of like, I'm going to say yes toanything that is offered to me,
(17:04):
you know, within reason, ofcourse. But you know, any
invitation I get to gosomewhere, I'm just gonna say
yes. I'm not gonna be the youknow, will it? Will it be too
loud? Will I not know anybody? Idon't even know. I don't I don't
like that kind of food. I don'twant it. And I just was like,
no, yes. No more excuses. I'msaying yes. And any, like work
opportunity that came my way?
Yes. Okay. Even if it wasn'tenough money, even if it was too
(17:24):
much time, even if anopportunity came? Yes. And I did
that basically to just kind ofbring about more and more of of
that change, and not be toostuck in my old ways to embrace
do things and, and try newthings. And, and I had to like I
used to have to say no to somuch in my in my old life.
(17:48):
Because again, I was puttingsomeone else first. And you
know,you often have to do that when
you're when someone else isinvolved with the picture. You
can't just say yes, you kind ofhave to make sure it works with
their life, too. And so so muchof so much had been no for so
long. That then it just becameyou know, my, my goal. I've just
(18:09):
I'm saying yes to everything.
Because it's because I can Idon't have anyone that I have to
run things by anymore, oranybody who is going to tell me
no, for whatever reason. So theanswer is yes.
Even Would you go out even whenyou didn't feel like it because
there's obviously times duringthis period, you're just not
feeling great, did you so shesort of made that commitment.
(18:31):
Just say I'm going to get upanyway. Well, I mean, I really
put this into play once iAfter about a couple like this
idea actually hit me on mywedding anniversary. So my, my
divorce started in June, and mywedding anniversary was the end
of August. And that day I was Iwas thinking about, you know, my
(18:52):
wedding and that I had, youknow, had this wedding and I was
very much like, I don't think Iever will want to get married
again. And I felt like I had youknow, like wasted my wedding. I
had this like period of timewhere I was like it's so sad
that like I won't do that again.
And like I will have that likeproposal moment again. Like I
(19:14):
wasted that. Yes. Like that onespecial. Yes. You know, this
thought entered my head and Ivery quickly dismissed it. Like
I very quickly was like that'snot right, like it's not right
at all, there will be so manyother exciting yeses. And so I
think you know, that initialmoment of like, I had a full two
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or three months where I reallydidn't want to go anywhere see
anyone and I had a lot ofembarrassment and shame and and
this kind of hit after that. SoI was already kind of feeling
better and very much likeexcited about this new chapter
of my life when I institutedthis like we're saying yes, I
always feel like you have toguard you know, you have to
(19:58):
guard like if you reallyNo, like I'm unwell. And I
shouldn't be out tonight, thenno.
Answers. No. But it was it wasme being like, I have to say yes
to times that I might just wantto say no, because my comfort
zone is like, I want to do that.
Okay. Um, okay, I have aquestion about Amanda Kloots and
Nick Cordero. And I, for thosepeople who don't know who they
(20:19):
are, or maybe they don'tunderstand the connection, could
you tell everybody andspecifically, I wanted you to
address the quote that Nick,when Nick said to you, Annie,
best day ever, could you? Couldyou explain that?
Yeah, Amanda is my as my oldersister is closest in age to me
and Nick was my is my latebrother in law, who
(20:42):
Amanda, Nick and I all lived inNew York at the same time, and
with along with my other sister,Ali, and we used to hang out all
the time as a little trio,because we both worked these,
you know, unusual, our jobs. Sowe got very close, and I would
be at their apartment all thetime. And it was a really
beautiful thing, because someonewho is your immediate family is,
(21:09):
you know, my immediate family inthe wake of my divorce was just
so worried and, and just, youknow, sad, and they're feeling
what you're feeling and, andthey're also crying, because
you're crying. But then someonewho really knows you and loves
you, but it's like that just youknow, it's a brother in law, or
(21:30):
it's, it's, there's somethingthat like, they're not they
haven't been with you your wholelife.
Nick just saw my strength andpower and capability and talent
when I couldn't. And, and thenight that my husband actually
(21:51):
left, I went up to theirapartment and stayed at their
apartment, and I was just cryingall day, you know, just couldn't
do anything. I just felt like mylife was over. And Nick just had
the biggest smile on his face atthe end of the day and gave me a
huge hug. And he said, Annie,best day ever.
And I looked at him like, youknow, huh, I thought it was like
(22:13):
making a funny joke. And he wasjust said, he said, No, this is
going to be the best day of yourlife. This person was holding
you back. You get to live yourown life. Now, I can't wait to
see what you do with it. And itwas just the absolute best thing
anyone could have possibly saidto me. And the best thing that I
(22:39):
think you could kind of ever sayto somebody at that point.
Because, you know, our gut saysto just like empathize and to
match their level, right? Solike, if someone's down, you
should be down. And you know,it's going to be okay, this is
awful. I'm sorry. But someonejust reminding you that, like
they see the you that maybeyou're not able to see in that
(23:01):
moment. And they know you'regonna be just fine. In fact,
you're gonna be so great that itjust was like it. It just stuck
with me. I mean, I've almostgotten it to I joked with him
for a while there, I was gonnaget it tattooed on my body.
Because it truly when I lookedback, like that was the day that
(23:21):
I got my life back. That was theday that I took control of
things back. And it did turn outto be the best day ever. Because
it was the day I got to startover. And it it just was I mean,
he always had such perfectthings to say.
But it was such a beautiful,such a beautiful moment. And my
(23:43):
brother in law passed away inJuly of 2020.
And it's truly just somethingthat has really stuck with me of
him helping me through theabsolute worst day of my life
and convincing me that it wasactually the best one.
Okay, I have a question. In thebook, you talk about how divorce
(24:06):
tempts you to look back and seeall the bad things. But it you
talk about how not to discountthe good times? Is that
something you were able to doright away? Or how did you get
there?
No, I, I kind of was able to dothat right away. I will say that
(24:28):
I think this is the same withany kind of grief or loss or
pain, your your feelings aboutit change every day. And that
initial, you know, however longthat takes a year or a couple of
months, like your feelings mightchange every single day. But I
did initially sort of feel likeI'm really upset that this has
ended up this way. This is notthis was not what I wanted or
(24:53):
hoped for. And even the way ithappened was not
You know, what I would havehoped for if I if I had to end
up divorce, I would have lovedfor that to be a mutual decision
that we both reach in a lovingway, you know, not what
happened.
(25:13):
But I was able to sort of say Idon't, I can't discredit all the
things that this person hasshown me, taught me the
wonderful experiences we've hadtogether, you know, those things
still last. And I think by justby not recognizing them, you're
(25:38):
only kind of setting yourself upto hurt more, you know, like it,
I never wanted to look back onthat 10 years of my life as
like, Well, that was a totalwaste, like, of course, it
wasn't, I fell in love withsomeone and I had a beautiful,
beautiful years of, of travelingtogether and experiences. And
(25:59):
there were certainly hard timesand, and hardships throughout
all of that. But there was a lotof good as well, you know,
nothing is ever so completelyblack and white. And you have to
look at those shades of grey.
And for me, it really helped me,it really like helped me heal,
and move on to really focus onthose good things and say
there's some really beautifultakeaways from, from this
(26:22):
marriage that I will alwayscherish and be very thankful
for.
Another question I had for you,and I'm new in this process, but
I've decided that I thinkthere's a moment where your
marriage is over before you'rewilling to acknowledge it. And
it throughout the book, you talka lot you You were quite young,
(26:46):
but you talk about not trustingyour gut. And now looking back,
is there a moment when you itcould be any time even before
you got married, but did youknow it was maybe wrong or that
you needed to get out but youweren't ready to face that. I
mean, that's there's a there'san essay in my book called
(27:08):
hoodwinked. It's about halfwaythrough. And I that essay, I
started writing that day, in 20,I think that was 2018 or 17.
And it wasit hit me in that moment that my
marriage wasn't going to work, Iknew it wasn't going to work.
And I knew that fighting for itto work was probably the wrong
(27:32):
thing to do. And that's why thatthat's why that
that image is that is on my bookcover because I identified that
as the moment that I firstaccepted that I needed more. And
that i i You know, I there was ashift in my head that day.
(27:57):
And i i In retrospect though, II've said many times when my
marriage because that was right.
I mean, if you're listening youhaven't read the book, my
husband tried to end ourmarriage about a year and a half
before it actually ended.
And it was a very for metraumatic experience and I just
(28:19):
wasn't it came out of nowhereand I just wasn't willing to
accept it. And so I foughtreally really hard to kind of
make him stay and keep tryingand and I was just you know, I
said I'm willing to do anythingto make this work. And so we
kept trying and went to therapytogether and had another you
(28:41):
know, year and a half or sobefore it really ended. So I had
when it ended ended then Ilooked back at that of being
like I should have just leftthis end a year and a half ago.
But actually I wasn't ready toyou also would have questioned
that I think because you wouldyou don't want to leave and not
(29:02):
have tried because then youmight not you don't mind
and all that. So for me eventhough I kind of
first accepted and knew I thinkthis is not going to work at
that point. And so remainmarried for another you know
year ish. I had to keep I had toknow that I gave it absolutely
(29:24):
everything. And I think thepiece I walked away with when it
did end was that knowledge waslike I have tried everything I
have sacrificed everything Ipossibly can nothing, nothing
works Nothing Is it nothing Ican do is gonna fix this. And I
I think that's why I veryquickly was able to kind of
(29:46):
accept it because I really feltlike I gave it absolutely
everything in every way that Icould.
Um, so as you were discoveringwho the new you are post double
Are You? You? I? I'm doing thisright now you make little steps
like whether it's opening my ownbank account or all that kind of
(30:08):
thing. What what is looking backwhat was sort of that most
significant step that you tookor something that you thought
was worth something reallyshifted for the first time that
I when I decided to appear whenI decided to move to France.
I, it was funny, it should, thatidea should have hit me right
(30:31):
away. But it didn't, because Iwas still just so like,
a afraid of change initially.
And I just wanted to be ascomfortable as I could. So I
started looking at apartment inNew York to be near to my mom
and dad, my mom was actuallylooking in her building that
werelike, rent the place upstairs.
And I was like, yeah, maybethat's a good idea. And you
(30:53):
know, I just, I just startedlike, basically trying to just
like, adapt my life into thisnew situation as easily as I
could. And, and then when I leftlater that summer for a trip,
which was, you know, startedwith work, but then ended up
(31:14):
kind of being like my own like,Eat, Pray Love summer. When I
got to Paris, I was just sohappy. I was so happy. And I was
just having the best day and thebest time. And I was like, why
am I not moving here. This wasalways my dream, this is where I
wanted to live. And when I kindof just stood up and said to no
one but me, I'm moving here toParis, I suddenly got so
(31:39):
excited. Like it, it was such abig, and it felt like the first
really big thing that I waschoosing that I knew I wanted
and I knew wouldn't have beenpossible in this old life. And
it just felt really, reallyempowering to be like this is
(32:01):
this is what I'm going to do.
And that was kind of like thestart of have all the
excitement.
Yeah, and you're also you're notcomparing to like I one thing I
can compare both my kids haveleft home. And when my when the
last one left i i started to dosome new things, including this
podcast, because then it's like,it's not like an empty seat at
(32:24):
the table. It's like a newexperience. So
it's always my dream. And Ithink sometimes, you know, we
have these crazy dreams. Andthen it's so easy to just part
with them because they're crazy.
Or hard or complicated. But thatreally felt like if I don't go
for this now, like I kind of hadnothing to lose in my head, I
(32:48):
had already lost everything,like an apartment gone, job
gone, everything gone. And so Iwas like, if I have to start
over completely, now is the timeto just go after the wild dream.
Because I can always come backto what I already know if it
doesn't work out. But it feltlike the opportune time to just
(33:09):
take a crazy chance.
So in your acknowledgments youyou thank your acts for the
things that he taught you orthat you had together. And then
you also think you are amagician's assistant, you talk
about how magic help you can youand your book is called my own
magic. Can you? Can youelaborate on that?
(33:34):
Yeah, I mean, I, because of thebecause of the Magic community,
I saw the whole world.
And even though I did find a lotof the
a lot of existing within thatworld very challenging, which I
talked about in my book,because, you know, you're in
(33:56):
this like nicheworld where you're not, you
know, it's not your interest,that's not your passion. And
you're a bit of an you know, Ibecame a bit invisible, because
that's just, I think, what canhappen when you're completely
immersed in someone else'sexistence, and you have no, you
(34:16):
know, ties to your own.
But because of all the variousplaces that my husband's job
took us and the differentopportunities that brought like,
I had so many incredibleexperiences. And I did meet some
very wonderful people and, andhad a lot of fun and funny
(34:39):
moments and lessons learned. Sothere was no way to me to finish
you know, you write theacknowledgments last, or at
least I did, like truly the lastthing I wrote. And when it came
time to write all about I waslike there's no way I couldn't
thank, you know, both my husbandand the Magic community for
(35:00):
helping me to grow into who I amto see the world to have this,
you know, kind of rebirth thatat this age and go after
everything I wanted, you knoweverything
you get to where you are becauseof everything you've been
through. And ultimately what Iended up here living the life, I
(35:24):
always wanted to live and doingthe thing I always wanted to do.
I kind of feel like I have nochoice but to look back at
everything that got me here withgratitude. Because even if they
were hard lessons learned, likeit brought me here, it brought
me to where I ultimately wantedto be.
So you have a boyfriend andyou're in love, and I wanted to
(35:46):
know, he's very cute. You guysare so cute.
What? Okay, I can see, I alreadycan see how you're you could
bring baggage forward with you.
But what are the positivelessons from? Like, you must
know what you want orexpectations? Like, how are you?
How are you showing up in thiscurrent relationship that you
(36:10):
couldn't have shown up for? Ifhe hadn't been through your
divorce?
You know, I thinkI think the thing is, is you
show up,you show up for you, you show up
for yourself. The first time, atleast me and I think this can
apply to many people. I just wasso enamored with my ex husband,
(36:35):
when I met him, I thought he wasamazing. I not only put him on a
pedestal, I built it, you know,and just like anything, I just
wanted to be the person that hewanted to be with and that he
needed. And so I just keptchanging and sacrificing and
shifting and trying to make himhappy. And that is how I
(36:57):
completely lost sight of my ownneeds, wants dreams desires.
When I went into relationshipthis time, I was so aware of
what I had to guard with all ofmy might, and never compromise
away. Because when I trade awaythose things, I lose me and I
(37:20):
can't be in I can't be half of ahealthy relationship if I'm not
me. And if I'm not healthy, andif I'm not feeling good. So I
every relationship requirescompromise. You know, there's
there's zero scenario in whichyou're never gonna have to
compromise anything to be withsomeone else and to make it
work. But I learned what partsof me i are not on the table,
(37:41):
like what parts, if someoneneeds that to change to be with
me, then I have to be out.
Because if I trade away that Ilose who I am. And I also became
very aware of like, what partsof me Should someone not need,
like, if they need this tochange, then that's a you know,
that's a red flag that I shouldrun, because that's a part of me
(38:02):
I love or that's a part of me,that makes me me, that is a
defining me character. And ifthey don't like that particular
thing, then this isn't going towork. Because I shouldn't have
to change that part of me inorder to gain someone else's
love.
And I think that lesson canhonestly only be learned after
(38:24):
going through a bad breakup oror divorce because
once you're on your own again,and you have to take care of
you. That's like it's a lot ofhealing to do. And it is a hard
road for a lot of people to paveback to who they are.
(38:44):
But once you get that personback, and you become this
actually like 2.0 version ofyourself, because now you're
you're stronger and you'resmarter and you're,
you know, you're just like muchmore aware of, of what, you
know, what can happen to you ifyou don't protect these things
(39:06):
that I was I just went into thisrelationship. So 100% Me and so
certain that I had to alwaystake care of myself in order to
be a good part of thisrelationship. Having to do all
those things and remain openhearted. like kinda like open to
(39:30):
being vulnerable, like becauseyou have to balance that.
Yeah, I mean, it's I, I guess Idon't think it is. I've always
been very open hearted. So Idon't necessarily feel like for
me, that was a particularstruggle. That wasn't a
challenge. Yeah, it wasn't achallenge. I think what is just
(39:54):
hard is is setting though itsboundaries essentially right?
It's like you, you setting theboundary. And it's just as
difficult as it is, it was justas difficult for me to do with
family. It can be difficult todo with friends, because you
love these, you love thesepeople. But when you set a
boundary, like the people youlove should then they shouldn't
(40:18):
be threatened by that, you know,like a boundary isn't going to
threaten a relationship that is,at its core good and pure. And
someone who truly cares aboutyou. The only people who are
going to be threatened and madabout boundaries are the ones
who were benefiting from thelack of them. And so I didn't
really find it a strugglebecause I I went in, I mean, I
(40:41):
was dating some other peoplethat yeah, maybe it wasn't
working. And I was just veryquickly like, okay, but when I
met my boyfriend, like, I, Inever felt any sort of pushback
on any of these things of that.
I didn't know that I was veryclear, like, nope, for me, it's
this or No, it has to be this.
(41:01):
And I and I always alsoencourage the person you know,
my boyfriend to have those aswell like it, you have to have
those healthy boundaries, youhave to protect who you are, in
order to really show up in arelationship.
What language do you guys speakwhen you're together? By the
(41:22):
way? I just curious, do youspell reached such a mix of
honey?
I know other you know, othercouples who do the same thing?
Apparently, they say we're like,I might switch halfway through a
sentence. It's very bizarre. Butlike, I'd say, we have spoken
(41:42):
more English over the lastcouple of years. Because when I
met my boyfriend, he didn'tspeak English. So I really like,
Okay, we have to teach you afterabout six months, I was like, I
think we need to work on yourEnglish because I want you to be
able to know my family. And, youknow, it was like, they don't
know where to French, you'renever gonna get to like talk to
my dad. And he really wanted tolearn English as well. So we for
(42:05):
a while we were speakingprimarily English. But we speak
truly like such a funny mix ofbroglio
such a funny mix wrongly. And itcould be on a whim.
Well, that those are all myquestions. And I I just really
am grateful for the time youspent and
(42:26):
actually, I just got a lot ofMay I have a lot of new tips to
start my new life with.
I'm, I'm I'm Seth, I reallyappreciate your questions that
I'm just so thankful that my, myexperiences is helpful to you
and relatable. Andit means a lot to me that to
hear that because like I said atthe beginning that is that is
(42:49):
why I wrote this book.
Thank you and good luck. Well,your book. So you are going
you're traveling now did you saypart of it is a book tour.
You'll do some a little a fewbook events or I am doing a book
event in London this comingTuesday. And then I doing a book
event in Fort Lauderdale onNovember 28. Okay, good.
(43:11):
Thank you so much, Anna. Thankyou so much. I hope you have a
lovely weekend when Thursday.
Because Thursday. Okay.
Thursday, okay. Bye, bye. Thanksso much to Anna for coming on
the podcast. That was reallyamazing on a whole bunch of
(43:32):
levels. First of all, she mademe instantly feel a lot better.
And I learned a lot. And one ofthe things that I took away was
when she talked about thatuniversal feeling of starting
over and how we've all donethat, whether it's starting a
new job or moving to a new city,starting a new school. And I
(43:55):
have done all those things. Andso that means maybe I can do
this. And I don't really have achoice. But it I thought that's
kind of a easy way to look atthis time. And the other thing I
want to say is that I'm reallygrateful that she came on, and
(44:19):
I'm really proud of myself thatI asked because I don't think if
I had had this happen, I wouldhave I would have probably been
too self conscious to ask her tocome on. But I reached out to my
friend Julie McHugh, and shemade an introduction. And then I
just asked her, and if she saidno,
(44:40):
she would just say no, but shedidn't. And so that's kind of
fun. And so I really liked thatduring a dark time. There was
kind ofhad some courage. So that's what
I'm finding during this time isthat there's a lot of really bad
things that have happened, butthere's some really cool things
that have happened at the sametime.
and further to that, I've donethis podcast as a passion
(45:04):
project. worked really hard onit and I love it. But now I kind
of want to build it and maybe Ieven need to build it more than
I did before. So maybe thisinterview will help and if you
enjoyed this podcast, pleaseshare it with a couple of
friends that would mean a lotand it's a great way for me to
grow. So I hope you enjoyed thistalk as much as I did, and I
(45:26):
will talk with you soon.
Hello, welcome back to the Red Fern book review. I am
your host, Amy Mair.
And today I have a very personaland also exciting interview with
Instagram, influencer and bestselling author Anna Kloots. And
(00:52):
she has written a really specialbook. It's a memoir about the
unraveling of her marriage, andher rebuilding of her life. And
it's called My Own Magic. Andthe name comes from, she was
married to a magician, a wellknown magician. And she
travelled the world for manyyears as the magician's
(01:15):
assistant. But things didn'twork out in the end. And at a
pretty young age, actually, shegot divorced at 30, and then
then rebuilt her life.
So anyway,you might wonder why I said it
was personal. It's personal,because very unexpectedly, my
marriage ended this year. I hadnever anticipated that
(01:43):
that would happen. And it did.
And for most of the year, myhusband and I tried to make it
work. And ultimately, wecouldn't. And it just kind of
ended officially about a monthago. And a couple of days in my
dear friend Susie came by withthis book. And at first, I
didn't really want to read itbecause well, I didn't really
want to read. So you know,things are bad when I don't feel
(02:05):
like reading. But on top of it,I had followed Anna, she's a
really fun aspirational sight.
If she lives in Paris, and she'sgot an amazing life and partner,
but because she's so muchyounger, and glamorous, I just
thought, what did she have tosay? But I was really surprised
(02:27):
thatshe had a lot to say, in fact.
So that's what our conversationis about. And I'm really excited
to be able to talk with her. Solet's move over and talk with
her now. Hi, Anna, thanks somuch for joining the podcast.
Oh, you're so welcome. Thank youfor having me. The first
question I want to ask you,because I follow you on
(02:49):
Instagram is how did your earlyThanksgiving go? And I am also
American living in Canada. Soit's not it's I'm adjacent. I'm
nearby but I was just kind ofwondering what how that
experience was and how did yourguests receive what you made.
(03:09):
It was surely so beautiful. Ihad never hosted Thanksgiving
before or cooked that whole mealon my own. And it to do it for
the first time here in Paris inmy apartment was was really
beautiful it like I one point Istarted kind of crying right
(03:31):
away. Because I put on like themusic my dad would play when he
would start cooking Thanksgivingdinner and then just instantly
those smells happen and whenit's the same recipes, you're
hit with these smells that likeI don't get care often because
we don't do those things. And Ibecame very nostalgic and I was
like tearing up of like, I can'tbelieve I'm this is like I'm a
(03:54):
grown up doing this in my Pariskitchen of this like apartment
in place I always wanted to livein and I'm doing this for my
French boyfriend's family. So itwas it was very beautiful, like
the whole process of cooking.
And then sharing that meal withwith people who didn't grow up
eating it and thought it was,you know, bizarre and fun. was
also a really fun chance toshare a bit of who I am and what
(04:18):
my culture is. Because you don'tdo that often. When you're
living in another country. It'sa lot of learning. You know,
you're the one who's displacedyourself and you're the visitor
and so you're doing the learningand you're doing the question
asking and the trying tounderstand and adapting. So it
was really fun to sort of for anafternoon, explain a bit about
(04:38):
my culture and share thoserecipes and traditions. Was
there a Was there something theyloved or didn't like that was
like an unusual taste for them.
Didn't like pumpkin pie theFrench the French don't like I
mean you hate to generalize manyFrench people I know. Do not
(04:58):
like cinnamon. ItIt's not a part of their cuisine
at all. Okay, just as like areally, it's a taste that they
don't enjoy. And then the samewith pumpkin. They don't they
don't cook pumpkin really theyhave pumpkin soup in the fall,
but it's not. It's not verypopular. So the concept of like
eating that as a dessert was notdid not go over well, I knew it
(05:21):
would be a long shot, but I feltlike I had to make them a
pumpkin pie. I was like, Istarted saying, You do not have
to like this. You don't have topretend you like this, if you
hate this, I understand. But Iwanted to make it for you.
Because I think it's the onlychance he will ever have to try
this. And so, you know, told mewhat you think. But it was
(05:41):
funny.
Okay, um, I wanted to ask you,you're a travel influencer,
among other things. And I wantedto know where your deep desire
from travel comes from, and whatperspective you feel the
extensive travel that you do isgiven you.
I tried to answer this question.
In my book, when I was writingmy memoir, I was trying to
(06:04):
define where did it come from,because we didn't travel a lot
as as kids and my family, therewere seven of us, we couldn't
afford to travel. And I didn'tknow, you know, I didn't really
have an education in indifferent places. So I truly
just have to believe that it wasinnate.
And I traced it back to books, Itraced it to loving my visits to
(06:29):
the library as a little kid, andchecking out all these books
that i i read, like, you know,religiously, all through my
life. And those were my firstkind of like adventures and
escapes. And I remember reading,you know, the Chronicles of
Narnia and being like, what isTurkish delight, I want to try
that I want to walk through awardrobe and I would read these
(06:49):
books called, but like it wasthe life of Georgia, Nicholson,
they were like her diaries, andshe would lived in England, and
then she went to Scotland in NewZealand. And, like, that's how I
learned about those places. Andthat made me want to go to those
places. So I really think it wasthat it was these like, I
transported myself through booksfirst and then it made me want
to go have that experience.
(07:12):
Okay, so let's, let's talk aboutthe memoir, I was wondering,
just a little, a littlebackstory, what happened was, I
had mentioned this to you and Ireached out that my marriage is
ending unexpectedly. And a dearfriend bought brought your book
by. And I really didn't want toread it, because like, it was
(07:33):
given to me within the firstweek, and I followed you on
Instagram, because you're funand kind of aspirational for me,
and you're beautiful, and allthis stuff. And I was like, I do
not want to read her book, andyou're also a lot younger, and
then all of a sudden, it just,it really
helped me a lot. And I was justkind of wondering, What Why do
(07:58):
you think this book is reachingpeople that I mean, I just
didn't think I could relate to Iwant I want to maybe be like,
you can't relate and I found itvery relatable.
That really makes me so happy.
That's the best review andcompliment anyone could ever
give the project I spent fouryears working on because that
(08:19):
was completely my intent. Iwrote it to help people feel
seen and, and to relate to thesituation that that I went
through because I knewregardless of how different our
lives are as, as people aswomen, regardless of age and
(08:41):
location, and all the otherfactors, we we deal with this
loss of selfalmost universally, and whether
it's from a relationship as itoften is, and that could be a
romantic relationship or youknow, a friend a family member
it can be or you can loseyourself and your job. People
(09:02):
have told me they lostthemselves temporarily and
motherhood there there's so manythings that you get involved
with because you love you know,the intent is good, but then you
end up really kind of losingsight of yourself because you
are you know in the in the nameof love and goodness, you just
keep giving and giving andgiving of your time and your
(09:25):
needs and your own, you know,desires and dreams because
you're you're making somethinghappen for someone or something
else. And I I really felt likewe don't talk about that enough.
And when I started going throughmy divorce I I really felt very
(09:46):
alone because I didn't reallyhave anyone to relate to most of
my friends. You know, I gotdivorced at 30 Most of my
friends in New York weren't evenengaged yet. They you know, no
one had been through divorce isthat
I had from my sister, and eventhen it was a very different
situation. So she could help mein many ways, but but also, you
(10:07):
know, not in others. And I, Iwent to a bookstore, trying to
find a book to make me feelbetter. Because, you know, as I
said, like books were justalways my outlet for inspiration
and help and everything. And I,I was going to the bookstore
that day and couldn't findanything that I liked. And I, I
kind of just said, I want towrite a book that I would want
(10:29):
to pick up right now. That isjust someone I could relate to,
where it works out better in theend, because I really did
believe it would work outbetter. I knew it was the right
thing. And I knew I would getthere. But I just needed to feel
like I wasn't crazy. I wasn'tthe only person in the world
having these thoughts. I wasn'tthe only person that were all
there was lost. And, and sothat's just sort of what I
(10:53):
wrote. And I think, I think thetrue, like, the reason people
connect to that is because it isthis very universal thing, that
you may not have someone in yourimmediate group of family or
friends that you're comfortabletalking about something so
deeply complex and painfulabout.
But to be able to relate tosomeone on paper is is almost
(11:17):
just as powerful.
I, I agree with all of that now.
Okay, I have a lot of questions.
So the first question I wantedto ask you is about your
relationship to change. And whenI look back, as my marriage was
unraveling this year, I realizednow one of the main reasons I
(11:39):
didn't want it to end is Ididn't want anything to change.
And I don't really like change.
And I just couldn't envisionbeing alone or being without my
husband. It's just I just wantedit all to be the same. And I
wanted to know, I mean, you madea big move after your divorce.
But what is your relationship tochange and post divorce? Or
(11:59):
like, how do you, I can feelthat I can, I mean, I'm just at
the beginning of this journey,but I have a feeling I'm going
to be more well, I don't have achoice I have to change. So I
just want to know what you how,how you relate to that right
now. I think that I felt exactlythat same way. And I I was, you
(12:19):
know, I wasn't the one who endedmy marriage. My ex husband was
but I, I wasn't happy. But I wastoo afraid to end it for that
same reason. I was like, Well,what would the next chapter look
like? All I know, is this personand even though I'm not
actually, you know, I felt likethat's like your comfort zone,
(12:40):
right? Like, we don't wantchange, because we think we're
the comfort zone. But you haveto stop and ask, like, is this
comfort zone actuallycomfortable? Like, am I happy
here? Is this working? And ifthe answer is no, which a lot of
the time it is, then in my head,you really only stand to gain.
(13:01):
Because if things are not good,if you change it up, you have
the ability to fix what's wrongto make it better to rethink it.
And, and you in going throughthat moment of rebuilding,
everything becomes reallyintentional. And I I realized
(13:22):
that as I was in this, you know,kind of like at ground zero of
of my divorce and was going intookay, everything has to change.
But I realized a I've done thisbefore I have we all have, we've
all left our parents home to goto college, we've all left that
dorm and this you know to movehere, we've all moved to a city
(13:45):
for a new job, we've, we've allhad it on these small levels. So
when you look back, you have togive yourself credit for what
you have already done. Andrealized there have already been
a lot of times in my life wherebig change has happened. And
more often than not, it probablyprobably resulted in good. And
new, new friends, new hobbies,new experiences, new
(14:06):
developments, new jobs, likeusually you grow when you
change. And so I really wentback I took all that inventory.
And then I looked at it as thisopportunity to have a reality
that I was truly comfortable andhappy with instead of living in
this place of like I don't wantanything to change. I'm just
(14:27):
gonna stay here even though I'mnot happy with it. And and when
you start rebuilding, you reallydo get to say like, Okay, what
am I going to, you know, evenjust waking up on my own for the
first time I was like, Okay, Iused to wake up and have to
like, be silent, because I'm anearly riser and my ex husband
wasn't so I'd be like, tiptoeingaround our apartment and not
turning any lights on and youknow, in the same that's the
(14:48):
same with clothes out of thecloset to go to the gym and just
hoping I need to wake him upbecause I didn't want to feel
bad. So then I wake up on my ownand I'm like, How do I want my
day to start? Do I want to wakeup early to it?
Want to sleep in, likeeverything got a reset? And then
like absolutely everything whatit because so much of my life I
was living for someone else andaround their needs or rules or
(15:12):
restrictions. And so everythingbecame so intentional. And
that's when I decided to move toFrance. I was like, Do I even
want to live in New Yorkanymore? Or am I just living
here because I've been livinghere. And so I was like, I'm
doing what I want to do. I'mmoving to France. And I realized
I'm waking up, I blasting music,and I'm dancing, I don't have to
tiptoe around in the darkanymore. I get to spend my
(15:34):
morning how I want to spend mymorning, I'm buying a coffee
machine, because I wasn'tallowed to have one before I buy
a coffee machine. And I'm gonnaspend my mornings drinking
coffee and dancing with themusic blasting and like, the
smallest thing like that makesthe hugest positive change to
very quickly, you start to lookback and go. I don't know how I
(15:57):
used to live like that. I don'tknow how I let myself live in
that place for so long. And Iwould have kept living like
that, and never discovered thejoy waiting on the other side of
this growth.
Okay, what about the power ofsaying yes, post divorce? You've
talked about that as well. YouYou said you went through a
(16:20):
phase where you just kind ofsaid yes to everything. And tell
me about that.
Yeah, I think that a lot of thatwas just part of, of that of
what I was saying of this, likeintentional rebuilding of my
life. I didn't want to just fallinto the old habits of what I
would do and what didn't do justbecause it was what I was used
(16:42):
to. And when I moved here,specifically, I I was like,
Okay, I don't know anyone. Idon't know, what it's like to
really live here. And so saying,yes. Sort of just became my rule
of like, I'm going to say yes toanything that is offered to me,
(17:04):
you know, within reason, ofcourse. But you know, any
invitation I get to gosomewhere, I'm just gonna say
yes. I'm not gonna be the youknow, will it? Will it be too
loud? Will I not know anybody? Idon't even know. I don't I don't
like that kind of food. I don'twant it. And I just was like,
no, yes. No more excuses. I'msaying yes. And any, like work
opportunity that came my way?
Yes. Okay. Even if it wasn'tenough money, even if it was too
(17:24):
much time, even if anopportunity came? Yes. And I did
that basically to just kind ofbring about more and more of of
that change, and not be toostuck in my old ways to embrace
do things and, and try newthings. And, and I had to like I
used to have to say no to somuch in my in my old life.
(17:48):
Because again, I was puttingsomeone else first. And you
know,you often have to do that when
you're when someone else isinvolved with the picture. You
can't just say yes, you kind ofhave to make sure it works with
their life, too. And so so muchof so much had been no for so
long. That then it just becameyou know, my, my goal. I've just
(18:09):
I'm saying yes to everything.
Because it's because I can Idon't have anyone that I have to
run things by anymore, oranybody who is going to tell me
no, for whatever reason. So theanswer is yes.
Even Would you go out even whenyou didn't feel like it because
there's obviously times duringthis period, you're just not
feeling great, did you so shesort of made that commitment.
(18:31):
Just say I'm going to get upanyway. Well, I mean, I really
put this into play once iAfter about a couple like this
idea actually hit me on mywedding anniversary. So my, my
divorce started in June, and mywedding anniversary was the end
of August. And that day I was Iwas thinking about, you know, my
(18:52):
wedding and that I had, youknow, had this wedding and I was
very much like, I don't think Iever will want to get married
again. And I felt like I had youknow, like wasted my wedding. I
had this like period of timewhere I was like it's so sad
that like I won't do that again.
And like I will have that likeproposal moment again. Like I
(19:14):
wasted that. Yes. Like that onespecial. Yes. You know, this
thought entered my head and Ivery quickly dismissed it. Like
I very quickly was like that'snot right, like it's not right
at all, there will be so manyother exciting yeses. And so I
think you know, that initialmoment of like, I had a full two
(19:36):
or three months where I reallydidn't want to go anywhere see
anyone and I had a lot ofembarrassment and shame and and
this kind of hit after that. SoI was already kind of feeling
better and very much likeexcited about this new chapter
of my life when I institutedthis like we're saying yes, I
always feel like you have toguard you know, you have to
(19:58):
guard like if you reallyNo, like I'm unwell. And I
shouldn't be out tonight, thenno.
Answers. No. But it was it wasme being like, I have to say yes
to times that I might just wantto say no, because my comfort
zone is like, I want to do that.
Okay. Um, okay, I have aquestion about Amanda Kloots and
Nick Cordero. And I, for thosepeople who don't know who they
(20:19):
are, or maybe they don'tunderstand the connection, could
you tell everybody andspecifically, I wanted you to
address the quote that Nick,when Nick said to you, Annie,
best day ever, could you? Couldyou explain that?
Yeah, Amanda is my as my oldersister is closest in age to me
and Nick was my is my latebrother in law, who
(20:42):
Amanda, Nick and I all lived inNew York at the same time, and
with along with my other sister,Ali, and we used to hang out all
the time as a little trio,because we both worked these,
you know, unusual, our jobs. Sowe got very close, and I would
be at their apartment all thetime. And it was a really
beautiful thing, because someonewho is your immediate family is,
(21:09):
you know, my immediate family inthe wake of my divorce was just
so worried and, and just, youknow, sad, and they're feeling
what you're feeling and, andthey're also crying, because
you're crying. But then someonewho really knows you and loves
you, but it's like that just youknow, it's a brother in law, or
(21:30):
it's, it's, there's somethingthat like, they're not they
haven't been with you your wholelife.
Nick just saw my strength andpower and capability and talent
when I couldn't. And, and thenight that my husband actually
(21:51):
left, I went up to theirapartment and stayed at their
apartment, and I was just cryingall day, you know, just couldn't
do anything. I just felt like mylife was over. And Nick just had
the biggest smile on his face atthe end of the day and gave me a
huge hug. And he said, Annie,best day ever.
And I looked at him like, youknow, huh, I thought it was like
(22:13):
making a funny joke. And he wasjust said, he said, No, this is
going to be the best day of yourlife. This person was holding
you back. You get to live yourown life. Now, I can't wait to
see what you do with it. And itwas just the absolute best thing
anyone could have possibly saidto me. And the best thing that I
(22:39):
think you could kind of ever sayto somebody at that point.
Because, you know, our gut saysto just like empathize and to
match their level, right? Solike, if someone's down, you
should be down. And you know,it's going to be okay, this is
awful. I'm sorry. But someonejust reminding you that, like
they see the you that maybeyou're not able to see in that
(23:01):
moment. And they know you'regonna be just fine. In fact,
you're gonna be so great that itjust was like it. It just stuck
with me. I mean, I've almostgotten it to I joked with him
for a while there, I was gonnaget it tattooed on my body.
Because it truly when I lookedback, like that was the day that
(23:21):
I got my life back. That was theday that I took control of
things back. And it did turn outto be the best day ever. Because
it was the day I got to startover. And it it just was I mean,
he always had such perfectthings to say.
But it was such a beautiful,such a beautiful moment. And my
(23:43):
brother in law passed away inJuly of 2020.
And it's truly just somethingthat has really stuck with me of
him helping me through theabsolute worst day of my life
and convincing me that it wasactually the best one.
Okay, I have a question. In thebook, you talk about how divorce
(24:06):
tempts you to look back and seeall the bad things. But it you
talk about how not to discountthe good times? Is that
something you were able to doright away? Or how did you get
there?
No, I, I kind of was able to dothat right away. I will say that
(24:28):
I think this is the same withany kind of grief or loss or
pain, your your feelings aboutit change every day. And that
initial, you know, however longthat takes a year or a couple of
months, like your feelings mightchange every single day. But I
did initially sort of feel likeI'm really upset that this has
ended up this way. This is notthis was not what I wanted or
(24:53):
hoped for. And even the way ithappened was not
You know, what I would havehoped for if I if I had to end
up divorce, I would have lovedfor that to be a mutual decision
that we both reach in a lovingway, you know, not what
happened.
(25:13):
But I was able to sort of say Idon't, I can't discredit all the
things that this person hasshown me, taught me the
wonderful experiences we've hadtogether, you know, those things
still last. And I think by justby not recognizing them, you're
(25:38):
only kind of setting yourself upto hurt more, you know, like it,
I never wanted to look back onthat 10 years of my life as
like, Well, that was a totalwaste, like, of course, it
wasn't, I fell in love withsomeone and I had a beautiful,
beautiful years of, of travelingtogether and experiences. And
(25:59):
there were certainly hard timesand, and hardships throughout
all of that. But there was a lotof good as well, you know,
nothing is ever so completelyblack and white. And you have to
look at those shades of grey.
And for me, it really helped me,it really like helped me heal,
and move on to really focus onthose good things and say
there's some really beautifultakeaways from, from this
(26:22):
marriage that I will alwayscherish and be very thankful
for.
Another question I had for you,and I'm new in this process, but
I've decided that I thinkthere's a moment where your
marriage is over before you'rewilling to acknowledge it. And
it throughout the book, you talka lot you You were quite young,
(26:46):
but you talk about not trustingyour gut. And now looking back,
is there a moment when you itcould be any time even before
you got married, but did youknow it was maybe wrong or that
you needed to get out but youweren't ready to face that. I
mean, that's there's a there'san essay in my book called
(27:08):
hoodwinked. It's about halfwaythrough. And I that essay, I
started writing that day, in 20,I think that was 2018 or 17.
And it wasit hit me in that moment that my
marriage wasn't going to work, Iknew it wasn't going to work.
And I knew that fighting for itto work was probably the wrong
(27:32):
thing to do. And that's why thatthat's why that
that image is that is on my bookcover because I identified that
as the moment that I firstaccepted that I needed more. And
that i i You know, I there was ashift in my head that day.
(27:57):
And i i In retrospect though, II've said many times when my
marriage because that was right.
I mean, if you're listening youhaven't read the book, my
husband tried to end ourmarriage about a year and a half
before it actually ended.
And it was a very for metraumatic experience and I just
(28:19):
wasn't it came out of nowhereand I just wasn't willing to
accept it. And so I foughtreally really hard to kind of
make him stay and keep tryingand and I was just you know, I
said I'm willing to do anythingto make this work. And so we
kept trying and went to therapytogether and had another you
(28:41):
know, year and a half or sobefore it really ended. So I had
when it ended ended then Ilooked back at that of being
like I should have just leftthis end a year and a half ago.
But actually I wasn't ready toyou also would have questioned
that I think because you wouldyou don't want to leave and not
(29:02):
have tried because then youmight not you don't mind
and all that. So for me eventhough I kind of
first accepted and knew I thinkthis is not going to work at
that point. And so remainmarried for another you know
year ish. I had to keep I had toknow that I gave it absolutely
(29:24):
everything. And I think thepiece I walked away with when it
did end was that knowledge waslike I have tried everything I
have sacrificed everything Ipossibly can nothing, nothing
works Nothing Is it nothing Ican do is gonna fix this. And I
I think that's why I veryquickly was able to kind of
(29:46):
accept it because I really feltlike I gave it absolutely
everything in every way that Icould.
Um, so as you were discoveringwho the new you are post double
Are You? You? I? I'm doing thisright now you make little steps
like whether it's opening my ownbank account or all that kind of
(30:08):
thing. What what is looking backwhat was sort of that most
significant step that you tookor something that you thought
was worth something reallyshifted for the first time that
I when I decided to appear whenI decided to move to France.
I, it was funny, it should, thatidea should have hit me right
(30:31):
away. But it didn't, because Iwas still just so like,
a afraid of change initially.
And I just wanted to be ascomfortable as I could. So I
started looking at apartment inNew York to be near to my mom
and dad, my mom was actuallylooking in her building that
werelike, rent the place upstairs.
And I was like, yeah, maybethat's a good idea. And you
(30:53):
know, I just, I just startedlike, basically trying to just
like, adapt my life into thisnew situation as easily as I
could. And, and then when I leftlater that summer for a trip,
which was, you know, startedwith work, but then ended up
(31:14):
kind of being like my own like,Eat, Pray Love summer. When I
got to Paris, I was just sohappy. I was so happy. And I was
just having the best day and thebest time. And I was like, why
am I not moving here. This wasalways my dream, this is where I
wanted to live. And when I kindof just stood up and said to no
one but me, I'm moving here toParis, I suddenly got so
(31:39):
excited. Like it, it was such abig, and it felt like the first
really big thing that I waschoosing that I knew I wanted
and I knew wouldn't have beenpossible in this old life. And
it just felt really, reallyempowering to be like this is
(32:01):
this is what I'm going to do.
And that was kind of like thestart of have all the
excitement.
Yeah, and you're also you're notcomparing to like I one thing I
can compare both my kids haveleft home. And when my when the
last one left i i started to dosome new things, including this
podcast, because then it's like,it's not like an empty seat at
(32:24):
the table. It's like a newexperience. So
it's always my dream. And Ithink sometimes, you know, we
have these crazy dreams. Andthen it's so easy to just part
with them because they're crazy.
Or hard or complicated. But thatreally felt like if I don't go
for this now, like I kind of hadnothing to lose in my head, I
(32:48):
had already lost everything,like an apartment gone, job
gone, everything gone. And so Iwas like, if I have to start
over completely, now is the timeto just go after the wild dream.
Because I can always come backto what I already know if it
doesn't work out. But it feltlike the opportune time to just
(33:09):
take a crazy chance.
So in your acknowledgments youyou thank your acts for the
things that he taught you orthat you had together. And then
you also think you are amagician's assistant, you talk
about how magic help you can youand your book is called my own
magic. Can you? Can youelaborate on that?
(33:34):
Yeah, I mean, I, because of thebecause of the Magic community,
I saw the whole world.
And even though I did find a lotof the
a lot of existing within thatworld very challenging, which I
talked about in my book,because, you know, you're in
(33:56):
this like nicheworld where you're not, you
know, it's not your interest,that's not your passion. And
you're a bit of an you know, Ibecame a bit invisible, because
that's just, I think, what canhappen when you're completely
immersed in someone else'sexistence, and you have no, you
(34:16):
know, ties to your own.
But because of all the variousplaces that my husband's job
took us and the differentopportunities that brought like,
I had so many incredibleexperiences. And I did meet some
very wonderful people and, andhad a lot of fun and funny
(34:39):
moments and lessons learned. Sothere was no way to me to finish
you know, you write theacknowledgments last, or at
least I did, like truly the lastthing I wrote. And when it came
time to write all about I waslike there's no way I couldn't
thank, you know, both my husbandand the Magic community for
(35:00):
helping me to grow into who I amto see the world to have this,
you know, kind of rebirth thatat this age and go after
everything I wanted, you knoweverything
you get to where you are becauseof everything you've been
through. And ultimately what Iended up here living the life, I
(35:24):
always wanted to live and doingthe thing I always wanted to do.
I kind of feel like I have nochoice but to look back at
everything that got me here withgratitude. Because even if they
were hard lessons learned, likeit brought me here, it brought
me to where I ultimately wantedto be.
So you have a boyfriend andyou're in love, and I wanted to
(35:46):
know, he's very cute. You guysare so cute.
What? Okay, I can see, I alreadycan see how you're you could
bring baggage forward with you.
But what are the positivelessons from? Like, you must
know what you want orexpectations? Like, how are you?
How are you showing up in thiscurrent relationship that you
(36:10):
couldn't have shown up for? Ifhe hadn't been through your
divorce?
You know, I thinkI think the thing is, is you
show up,you show up for you, you show up
for yourself. The first time, atleast me and I think this can
apply to many people. I just wasso enamored with my ex husband,
(36:35):
when I met him, I thought he wasamazing. I not only put him on a
pedestal, I built it, you know,and just like anything, I just
wanted to be the person that hewanted to be with and that he
needed. And so I just keptchanging and sacrificing and
shifting and trying to make himhappy. And that is how I
(36:57):
completely lost sight of my ownneeds, wants dreams desires.
When I went into relationshipthis time, I was so aware of
what I had to guard with all ofmy might, and never compromise
away. Because when I trade awaythose things, I lose me and I
(37:20):
can't be in I can't be half of ahealthy relationship if I'm not
me. And if I'm not healthy, andif I'm not feeling good. So I
every relationship requirescompromise. You know, there's
there's zero scenario in whichyou're never gonna have to
compromise anything to be withsomeone else and to make it
work. But I learned what partsof me i are not on the table,
(37:41):
like what parts, if someoneneeds that to change to be with
me, then I have to be out.
Because if I trade away that Ilose who I am. And I also became
very aware of like, what partsof me Should someone not need,
like, if they need this tochange, then that's a you know,
that's a red flag that I shouldrun, because that's a part of me
(38:02):
I love or that's a part of me,that makes me me, that is a
defining me character. And ifthey don't like that particular
thing, then this isn't going towork. Because I shouldn't have
to change that part of me inorder to gain someone else's
love.
And I think that lesson canhonestly only be learned after
(38:24):
going through a bad breakup oror divorce because
once you're on your own again,and you have to take care of
you. That's like it's a lot ofhealing to do. And it is a hard
road for a lot of people to paveback to who they are.
(38:44):
But once you get that personback, and you become this
actually like 2.0 version ofyourself, because now you're
you're stronger and you'resmarter and you're,
you know, you're just like muchmore aware of, of what, you
know, what can happen to you ifyou don't protect these things
(39:06):
that I was I just went into thisrelationship. So 100% Me and so
certain that I had to alwaystake care of myself in order to
be a good part of thisrelationship. Having to do all
those things and remain openhearted. like kinda like open to
(39:30):
being vulnerable, like becauseyou have to balance that.
Yeah, I mean, it's I, I guess Idon't think it is. I've always
been very open hearted. So Idon't necessarily feel like for
me, that was a particularstruggle. That wasn't a
challenge. Yeah, it wasn't achallenge. I think what is just
(39:54):
hard is is setting though itsboundaries essentially right?
It's like you, you setting theboundary. And it's just as
difficult as it is, it was justas difficult for me to do with
family. It can be difficult todo with friends, because you
love these, you love thesepeople. But when you set a
boundary, like the people youlove should then they shouldn't
(40:18):
be threatened by that, you know,like a boundary isn't going to
threaten a relationship that is,at its core good and pure. And
someone who truly cares aboutyou. The only people who are
going to be threatened and madabout boundaries are the ones
who were benefiting from thelack of them. And so I didn't
really find it a strugglebecause I I went in, I mean, I
(40:41):
was dating some other peoplethat yeah, maybe it wasn't
working. And I was just veryquickly like, okay, but when I
met my boyfriend, like, I, Inever felt any sort of pushback
on any of these things of that.
I didn't know that I was veryclear, like, nope, for me, it's
this or No, it has to be this.
(41:01):
And I and I always alsoencourage the person you know,
my boyfriend to have those aswell like it, you have to have
those healthy boundaries, youhave to protect who you are, in
order to really show up in arelationship.
What language do you guys speakwhen you're together? By the
(41:22):
way? I just curious, do youspell reached such a mix of
honey?
I know other you know, othercouples who do the same thing?
Apparently, they say we're like,I might switch halfway through a
sentence. It's very bizarre. Butlike, I'd say, we have spoken
(41:42):
more English over the lastcouple of years. Because when I
met my boyfriend, he didn'tspeak English. So I really like,
Okay, we have to teach you afterabout six months, I was like, I
think we need to work on yourEnglish because I want you to be
able to know my family. And, youknow, it was like, they don't
know where to French, you'renever gonna get to like talk to
my dad. And he really wanted tolearn English as well. So we for
(42:05):
a while we were speakingprimarily English. But we speak
truly like such a funny mix ofbroglio
such a funny mix wrongly. And itcould be on a whim.
Well, that those are all myquestions. And I I just really
am grateful for the time youspent and
(42:26):
actually, I just got a lot ofMay I have a lot of new tips to
start my new life with.
I'm, I'm I'm Seth, I reallyappreciate your questions that
I'm just so thankful that my, myexperiences is helpful to you
and relatable. Andit means a lot to me that to
hear that because like I said atthe beginning that is that is
(42:49):
why I wrote this book.
Thank you and good luck. Well,your book. So you are going
you're traveling now did you saypart of it is a book tour.
You'll do some a little a fewbook events or I am doing a book
event in London this comingTuesday. And then I doing a book
event in Fort Lauderdale onNovember 28. Okay, good.
(43:11):
Thank you so much, Anna. Thankyou so much. I hope you have a
lovely weekend when Thursday.
Because Thursday. Okay.
Thursday, okay. Bye, bye. Thanksso much to Anna for coming on
the podcast. That was reallyamazing on a whole bunch of
(43:32):
levels. First of all, she mademe instantly feel a lot better.
And I learned a lot. And one ofthe things that I took away was
when she talked about thatuniversal feeling of starting
over and how we've all donethat, whether it's starting a
new job or moving to a new city,starting a new school. And I
(43:55):
have done all those things. Andso that means maybe I can do
this. And I don't really have achoice. But it I thought that's
kind of a easy way to look atthis time. And the other thing I
want to say is that I'm reallygrateful that she came on, and
(44:19):
I'm really proud of myself thatI asked because I don't think if
I had had this happen, I wouldhave I would have probably been
too self conscious to ask her tocome on. But I reached out to my
friend Julie McHugh, and shemade an introduction. And then I
just asked her, and if she saidno,
(44:40):
she would just say no, but shedidn't. And so that's kind of
fun. And so I really liked thatduring a dark time. There was
kind ofhad some courage. So that's what
I'm finding during this time isthat there's a lot of really bad
things that have happened, butthere's some really cool things
that have happened at the sametime.
and further to that, I've donethis podcast as a passion
(45:04):
project. worked really hard onit and I love it. But now I kind
of want to build it and maybe Ieven need to build it more than
I did before. So maybe thisinterview will help and if you
enjoyed this podcast, pleaseshare it with a couple of
friends that would mean a lotand it's a great way for me to
grow. So I hope you enjoyed thistalk as much as I did, and I
(45:26):
will talk with you soon.
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