June 27, 2025 • 40 mins
I had the opportunity to sit down with three recipients of The Canadian Book Club Awards and discuss vulnerability and accessibility in writing as well as explore what it means to be a Canadian author. This episode is part of a four part series on The 2024 Canadian Book Club Awards that will run throughout the summer.
Books discussed:
Output by Ben Sporer
Jane's Jam by Jane Enright
Still I Cannot Save You by Kelly S. Thompson
About The Canadian Book Club Awards:
- Canada's largest reader's choice awards
- Open to all authors, regardless of publishing type (self published, hybrid, traditional)
- Readers just want good books!
- Submissions for the 2025 awards are open
- Sign up to be a verified reader and help select 2025 finalists books
Follow the Canadian Book Club Awards:
Instagram: @thecanadianbookclubawards
Website: canadianbookclubawards.ca
Follow Ben:
Instagram: @outputbook
Follow Jane:
Instagram: @janeenright.author
Website: janeenrightauthor.com
Follow Kelly:
Instagram: @kellysthompsonwriter
Website: kellysthompson.com
Follow Red Fern Book Review:
Website and to leave a voicemail: https://www.redfernbookreview.com
Instagram: @redfernbookreview
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/redfernbookreview/
Newsletter: https://www.redfernbookreview.com/newsletter
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Greatest feat of this book was to take something so
(00:03):
ugly, so many years of ugly, andto squeeze some beauty out of
that. And and that can only bedone really by taking it, taking
something and really liketurning it up to the light and
looking at it from differentangles. And that angle often has
to not be your own. There was soI like to think I made something
(00:24):
beautiful out of it. You
Amy Tyler (00:40):
Amy Tyler, hello.
Welcome back to the Red Fernbook review. I am your host, Amy
Tyler, and today I'm going to doa little bit of a switch up, and
I have the opportunity tointerview three authors who are
(01:01):
recent recipients of theCanadian book club awards. And
what's going on is the Canadianbook club awards have sponsored
me to do three podcasts over thesummer, and I'm going to be
highlighting the recent winners.
So this is a great opportunityto introduce you to some new
(01:25):
authors and who've written in avariety of genres. So I'm going
to tell you a little bit aboutthe awards, and then a little
give you a little preview on theauthors, and then we'll move
over and talk with them. So thefirst thing I want to tell you
is that the Canadian book clubawards are Canada's largest
(01:47):
Readers Choice Awards. They'reopen to all authors, regardless
of publishing type. That meansself published authors,
traditional authors, and authorswho've kind of done a hybrid of
the two. And the submissions forthe 2025 awards are still open,
(02:08):
so I'm going to put a link tothe awards in the show notes, in
case you're an author and wouldlike to apply. And then another
really fun thing is the waythese awards work is they're
open to anybody, any author fromaround the world, but they are
(02:31):
judged by Canadian readers. Soif you want to sign up to
actually be a reader for theawards, you can do that, and
I'll also send you a link, orput a link in the show notes for
that. So that's kind of cool.
Okay, so over to the authorsthemselves. Today. We're going
to talk with three authorswho've written in non fiction,
(02:51):
and it was really fun. As soonas we got on the call, they just
started gabbing. And it was verynatural, because they're all
interested in writing andreading, and they just were
sharing information, and kind offorgot I was there. And then one
of the authors, Kelly, was like,oh, wait a minute, we're here to
(03:14):
talk to Amy. So that's actuallyperfect. That's exactly what I
the environment that I hope tocreate. But let me tell you
about these, the authorsthemselves. So today we're going
to talk with Ben Spore, who'swritten a book called output,
optimizing your performance withlessons learned from sport. And
he's a high performance coach.
(03:38):
He primarily works with eliteathletes, but he also works with
anyone who wants to perform at ahigh level. And what he's done
is he's created a concise, veryaccessible book with kind of
tools and tricks that you canuse if you want to kind of glean
(03:59):
what people do, particularlyathletes, how they kind of tap
into high performance, and howyou might kind of apply that to
your own life. The second authorwe're going to talk to is Jane
Enright, and she's written abook called Jane's jam,
inspiration to create your superawesome life. She's written, I
(04:21):
call the book of it joyful. Onthe front cover, it's blue,
there's just a smiley face andsome wings, and it's just, it's
very joyful. But the bookactually has quite a serious
premise. She's been through somehealth situations and had some
(04:42):
personal losses, and she'screated a book to try and help
people through difficult times,kind of a little guidebook. And
the last author we're going tospeak with today is Kelly S
Thompson, and she's written abook called still a. Cannot save
you. And you may know about herfrom a previous memoir she wrote
(05:04):
a few years ago called Girlsneed not apply field notes from
the forces. So she was in theCanadian Forces, and has written
about some of her experiencesthere and some of the tough
things that she faced. But thisbook, I can't say enough about
this particular memoir that shewrote. It's about her sister who
(05:30):
ended up she was a drug addict,and so she has quite a
complicated relationship withher sister. Her sister then
became sober, but went on to dieof cancer. So I think what I
really liked about this book isjust it just was so honest and
(05:54):
vulnerable and just super wellwritten. So with that, I'd like
to move over and talk with theauthors. So I'm joined here by
then, Kelly and Jane, and you'reall writers, and you just kind
of got into it and start talkingabout publishing and writing,
and that's why we're here. Butyeah, why don't we just get
(06:17):
started? I just want to diveright in. And the first thing I
wanted to talk about is, Janeand Kelly, you're writing, you
know, what you wrote is quitepersonal, and you're both quite
vulnerable. And I just wanted totalk about how we'll start with
(06:40):
you, Kelly, in youracknowledgements, you thank your
sister, Megan, for telling youto write the book that you wrote
and not to leave out the uglyparts. So one of the things I
just wanted to observe is thatyou are very vulnerable and
honest, and that makeseverything very authentic. And I
think as a writer, the morepersonal you make things, the
(07:02):
more people can tap into theirown they don't know. They don't
necessarily can't relate to yourstory, but they can relate to
those feelings of, you know,love and loss and
disappointment. So I just wantedto ask about what was that like
for you to be so vulnerable, andhow did you also decide what to
share and not share.
Unknown (07:23):
This is a big question with so many I don't even
answer, but I think when itcomes to my sister, when she was
dying and was quite the victimof domestic violence and was an
addict for many years, so ourrelationship had a lot of ups
and downs, and even as she wasdying. She was making these
choices around her marriage andher children that were really
(07:45):
hard for us as her family on theother side. And there were so
many moments where my sister andI would connect eyes over
everyone else, and you seesomething in one another that
only you can as siblings, Ithink, and I she used to say to
me, you're so much stronger thanme while she's laying in a
(08:06):
hospice bed dying. And I'dthink, who are we kidding here?
But sometimes I think she sherelied on me to do some
emotional heavy lifting for herthat she wasn't able to do in
terms of dying is hard work. Sheshe didn't have enough time to
dedicate elsewhere, and when shesaid to me, write all the ugly
parts, it was my sister reallyliked to smooth over some of the
(08:29):
ugly edges of her life, becauseit was easier to cope with that
way. And Who among us has donethe same thing? So having my
sister's permission to do ithelped. It was also my second
memoir. So at the time my sisterwas dying, I was writing my
first one about being in themilitary and about sexual
(08:51):
harassment. So I think, likelaying it all out there is sort
of par for my course. We used tolaugh my sister and I too,
because we come from this superfamily where, generationally,
you kind of keep things toyourself. You don't do a lot of
complaining, you don't overshare. I I make a profession now
(09:11):
out of oversharing. So I hadthis moment when I was trying to
think about what to include andwhat not, because the book does
really sit with a lot ofdifficult, emotional, ugly
moments, including the scenewhere she dies is very intense,
but as you do when you losesomeone, I was like, this is a
(09:32):
great time for a PhD. It wasn'tbut I didn't anyways. And I was
studying creative writing andhow you write about grief, and I
was so I was reading all thesebooks on grief and everything
would kind of martyrize Theperson who died. They were
perfect, they were wonderful.
They were we're ugly and flawed.
That's what makes us beautiful.
That's why we read memoir.
(09:54):
That's why we read nonfiction, Ithink, to learn and grow from
our mistakes. And I. So reallylooking at it from an academic
side contributed to how Ibrought in the heart of the book
as well.
Amy Tyler (10:09):
What about you? Jane, what was your process and how?
How did you decide what toinclude and not to include, in
terms of when you were kind ofexplaining what had happened to
you?
Unknown (10:21):
Oh, well, thank you. I think it's a great question, and
I feel very honored and gratefulto be in such esteemed company
with Kelly and Ben And you, ofcourse. I mean, I'm a very I
don't have any formal trainingas a writer. I wrote for
business, but I don't have anEnglish degree. I mean, yes, I
have an English I have abackground writing reports and a
(10:41):
university degree, but as myfather would say, Jane, you have
a DPE, a Doctorate of personalexperience. You don't have a
PhD, you have a DPE. And that'ssomething we all have. And when
I was, I mean, I went throughlike Kelly, I went through a
grieving process of losing a lotof things in my life, three very
sad, you know, traumatic events,all within 365 days, almost to
(11:04):
the day. And of course, one ofthe cornerstones of that was my
my relationship with my bestfriend, Jen, who was my rock and
my source of support through Iwas go, I was going through a
lot of these things, and notthen all of a sudden, at the
end, boom, she was gone. And,you know, I think in terms of
authenticity, I'm always, Ibelieve in being your true,
(11:27):
authentic self and sharing, butI also, you know, always with
love, do no harm. I could haveput in a lot more of the ugly
parts about what was going onaround me, because it's been my
experience with trauma and lossthat people it's almost like, oh
my gosh, you know, I can'thandle that, you know? And they
(11:48):
sort of back away, and theycan't necessarily deal with the
feelings that you'reexperiencing, and they don't
want to be around that. Andthat's fair. So I didn't try and
sugarcoat things, but I sort ofjust like to write in a very
salient, practical way. And Ishared, I shared very personal
writing, like my note to Jen,that was a real that was my real
(12:09):
letter to her, like in thehospital, you know, when she was
passing and, you know, it waslike she was a very no nonsense.
Let's get it done. But I reallygot forward with a lot of
gratitude. And I said, look at Iwish I could take this all away
from you. This is the mostterrible thing that has ever
happened to us as friends, butI'm grateful you called me and
(12:30):
said that you needed me. And Isaid, it's the worst call I ever
got, but it's the best call Iever got, and that's sort of how
I move forward with it. But Ididn't, you know, I chose very I
didn't choose to writenecessarily about reactions of
others while all of this washappening. And, you know, that's
that's just me. I hope Iincluded. I hope I included. I
tried to include examples andbring brevity to it with the
(12:54):
humor that I tried to see, whichis not diminishing what
happened, but rather saying,Okay, this has happened. I
accept it. I'm not happy aboutit, and neither are the people
around me. But how are we goingto move forward? So that's sort
of how I approached my writing.
Amy Tyler (13:12):
Now, second to that, you, you do have humor in the
book, and I it's also even fromthe cover, like it's it's
joyful. So talk about thatchoice, and also how your
ability, I mean, you talk aboutyou have a process to become
positive, and that's what thebook's about. But where does
that come from? That ability to
Unknown (13:34):
be joyful? Oh, well, thank you for that. Like light,
life's not all lollipops andrainbows. I mean, Kelly's been
in the military, military, Ben,you're a sports psychologist. I
mean, we all you know, you know,Amy, you're, you're, you're an
editor and a writer yourself.
So, I mean, I come from a placeagain, I'll go back to
acceptance. You're not, you knowyou're you're not happy
necessarily, about what'shappened in your life. This
(13:57):
unexpected change, unexpectedchange can bring wonderful
things, you know, like amarriage proposal or a new
relationship, or, you know, awindfall of money or birth of a
baby, but it can also bring theheart sad and ugly. Is like,
wow, this came out of leftfield. I don't know where this
came from. I used to teachkindergarten. Years ago, I
taught in an indigenouscommunity in sachika lake, and I
(14:19):
loved it, and it was a veryhappenstance, you know,
experience that I went there tojoin my spouse, and he was
teaching at the time, and theyjust suddenly needed someone,
because somebody was ill, and Ihad teaching experience, so they
hired me. And so I reallylearned a lot. I come back to
all we I really need to know Ilearned in kindergarten. So I
(14:42):
was, when I was coming up withthe book, I thought, you know,
I've gotta, I've gotta tellpeople how I handled this in a
very simple ways andstraightforward way and
authentic way. So I came up withOMG outside and thinking
mindfulness and gratitude. Sowhen we go through a crisis, we
say, Oh my god. My goodness, oh,my God. What's next? It's just
our brain's way of processing.
(15:04):
And I said to myself, well, OMG,how can I break that down? So
that's what I started to do. AndI drew a lot of a lot of soul
searching from author Michael Ssinger the Untethered Soul
mindfulness from obviouslyeveryday living we, you know, a
mindfulness is how we seeourself and the world around us.
And gratitude, obviously, youknow, being thankful for what we
(15:28):
have, rather than seeing theglass half empty, you know, see
it half full. So we live in avery fast paced, busy, uncertain
world. So I hope that's comeacross in my writing, that
ability to just, you know, bevery straightforward and say,
You know what things happen inlife. And I took some of my
business experience about changeand organizational change and
(15:49):
applied it to personalcircumstances, and tried to
write and, you know, with alighter side, like a Stuart
McLean sort of approach to life,who I really admire as a writer,
Amy Tyler (16:01):
I think, I think you've done that and done that
well. And Ben, I wanted to askyou about accessibility, and
you've written a technical book,but it is also quite access,
accessible to and i You've,you're taking, you're talking
(16:22):
about the lessons you've learnedwith athletes and applying it to
lessons anyone could use. Socould you talk about how you
take, I know you have a PhD,like, how, how do you make
something palatable to orunderstandable to a broader
audience? And what kind ofchoices did you make?
Unknown (16:43):
That's a great question, and thanks for having
me as well. With the otherauthors, it's really great to
hear their stories, and it's anhonor to be here, and I listened
to both of you just speak, and Iit actually ties into the answer
I'm going to give you right nowis, I am a scientist. I'm a
technical scientist. I'm trainedas a scientist, a physiologist.
Just to be clear, mypsychologist friends would be
(17:05):
apt to hear that I'm callingmyself a psychologist. So I do
want to clarify. I'm aphysiologist. Can you explain
what that is? Yeah? And I'lljust yeah, a physiologist. So
what I do is I understand thesystems of the body. That's the
easiest way to describe it, thathow all these different systems
function together. And I had it.
I had a trained expertise withregards to exercise and how they
relate to exercise, whether it'sthe hormonal system, the
(17:26):
cardiovascular system, thenervous system, any of the
systems, and how they functiontogether and the response to
exercise. And that's my trainingbackground. So it's very
scientific. We do a lot ofresearch, but early on, even
when I was when I was working inthe field and learning and going
through my master's degree, Ialways found myself working in
the applied side of it. I likedthe research. I loved
(17:50):
understanding and learning, andso I had this tendency in this
pull, and this gravitationalpull to work in the applied
area. And I kept getting told bymy mentors and such like you
really had a knack for beingable to relate to people, to
translate the knowledge baseinto a place that's digestible
and usable. But it was reallydifficult to write like that,
(18:12):
like, you know, like I've saidthis many times to different
people, like this was probablythe most challenging thing I've
done in my career in a longtime, to write in one voice that
reached a lot of differentpeople. And I think one of my
skill sets is to be able todigest how the conversation is
(18:33):
going with an individual andchange so that it comes in a
language that they're able tounderstand and relate to. But
when you're trying to do that ina book, you really have to do it
in one voice for 1000s ofdifferent people. And that was a
real challenge for me. I also,you know, one of the things I
said at the very outgo of thebook, when my partner, Trina,
(18:54):
and I were talking about doingthis, was that I don't want to
write another science book.
There's so many great books outthere. The science changes all
the time, and what we had gottenasked a lot about and questions
that we had come up to us wasalways about, what's your
thoughts on x, or what's youropinion on Y? How would you
(19:16):
approach this? And so really,the book was trying to create
almost a structure in how Iactually walk through this in
any situation, whether it bewith a team, an athlete, an
individual. And I work primarilyin sport, but I've been working
a lot over the last 20 years,translating this across to
different people. And one of thethings that I've often seen too,
(19:37):
and actually both you just spoketo this, is this concept of
like, I actually believe we areall performers. You know, I work
in high performance sport, but Isee the world through a
performance lens. And so when Ispeak to people, and I work with
people, I view whatever it isthey're trying to achieve as a
performance. And so for someonethat's not as specific as an
(19:57):
elite athlete, you know, if it'sanyone. Of us on this call, or
any one of our friends or anyonethat you're talking about in
your books, we have to be ableto perform at a level just the
objectives different. We have tobe able to be there for our
partners or our family membersor our friends. We have to be
able to rise to the occasion todo stuff that's difficult, under
pressure, sometimes not in thebest circumstances. And that's
(20:21):
really performance. It's notoutcome based. So when we going
back to the writing part of thisis, how do I create that in one
voice? And so honestly, the bestway we decided, I tried writing
and it wasn't working. And soTrina and I would go for hikes,
and it happened during COVID,where she would just ask me
questions, and I'd speak to her,and we'd record it, and then we
(20:43):
go for hikes every day, becausewe couldn't do anything else
during COVID. And we just recordthis. We'd re we'd bring it
back, we'd put it down on paper.
And over about four months, wehad, you know, 50, 60,000 words
that were digestible and requestioned back in a language.
And obviously you go through theediting process. But that was
the easiest way for me to do it,rather than because every time I
sat down, it was like, Okay,what's the reference for this?
(21:03):
What's the, you know,physiological background for
this? And and that's not what Ifelt people were really asking
for when they wanted the book.
That's
Amy Tyler (21:12):
interesting that you were hiking, because that's
obviously something you're verycomfortable doing. So you're
you're in the right zone torelay information in an
authentic way.
Unknown (21:23):
Yeah, and authenticity had to be really, it was an
important part for us, becauseit's really this field is full
of, I would call it nonauthentic authenticity, and it
doesn't mean that there's notpeople that really value it. But
for me, I couldn't write, or Icouldn't speak in a way that
was, you know, marketing style,or even how we would promote the
(21:45):
book, and the the publishersjust really got frustrated with
me because I wasn't going to goon social media and promote it,
because I'm not It's notauthentic to who I am, and it
had to be authentic.
Amy Tyler (21:56):
So all of you are teachers, or have been teachers,
and I wanted to ask you, I mean,Ben, you've kind of answered
this, but Kelly and Jane, whathave you learned through this
process? Like you're obviouslylifelong learners, but what,
what was kind of an unexpectedskill you gained, or something
(22:20):
you learned about yourselfthrough writing your books.
Kelly, do you want to
Unknown (22:27):
start? Yeah, where do I even begin? It's funny because I
teach creative nonfiction,specifically at a master's
program, and they jokingly, kindof call me team trauma, because
that's usually my specialty. Sopeople are coming to me with
their most deeply woundingstories and trusting me to hold
(22:51):
those tenderly for them. I don'tthink I held my own sister very
tenderly, often, um, frustratedwith her addiction, frustrated
with her decisions that I didn'twant her to make. So in writing,
(23:11):
I was really surprised, becauseI was also, like I said,
researching it sort of from thisacademic perspective, how much
compassion I developed, partlyfor her and also partly for all
of us who were in this horriblesituation, losing someone we
loved, watching them wither andbeing powerless. So I studied
(23:35):
domestic violence so that Icould understand it. I spoke to
psychologists, I spoke to peoplewho worked in domestic violence
shelters, young younger me waslike, why don't you just walk
away? Well, of course, it's notthat easy. There's 900 million
other factors that are going onat the same time. And then what
about what about compassion? Foryounger me, there's kind of like
(23:59):
an early scene that happenswhere my sister is by as a kite,
and we're trying to buysomething for my parents for
Christmas, and I'm trying to,just like, get her going. She is
a shell of a human, and all Ican do is be angry about my big,
important military job and thefact that my sister is not kind
of complying with what I want.
Instead of looking at her pain,I've grown as a instructor, as a
(24:21):
as a person, um, withtenderness. That's been a big
gift. I think of this book, Ihave cried at every interview I
have done about this book, likeevery single one. So I'm not
gonna lie, it's not the firsttime, but
Amy Tyler (24:43):
that's good. That's what, yeah, hoping for. I know
it's like, no, but. And I sentyou a note on the side, and one
of the things I was really movedby was, and I think a lot of
times when I work with writers,is, I think we all have a
tendency. Easy to protect. Youknow, if you're writing a
personal story, but the thingis, is that the love shown
(25:06):
through because you didn't dothat is it's just so honest. So
Unknown (25:10):
I always said too, that the greatest feat of this book
was to take something so ugly,so many years of ugly, and to
squeeze some beauty out of that.
And that can only be done reallyby taking it, taking something
and really like turning it up tothe light and looking at it from
different angles. And that angleoften has to not be your own.
There was so I like to think Imade something beautiful out of
(25:36):
it. You did,Jane, what about you? I agree. I
agree with you. I mean, thefirst point in my journey was
that I had a very traumaticinjury. I was slammed in the
head with a volleyball at asporting event. And it wasn't my
fault. It was just, it justhappened. I wasn't playing. I
(25:56):
was a spectator sitting where Iwas supposed to be sitting. So
that was, like, huge. It justboom, my life just changed
forever. And I might might,thankfully, I've with a lot of,
you know, help from a speechpathologist, you know, and a lot
of really purposeful, mindfulliving and new habits, I got
(26:17):
through that. So it's a miracle,you know, it's a miracle that
I'm actually as comfortable as Iam speaking. I couldn't do that.
I couldn't I couldn't talk. Iused to talk for a living, and,
you know, for five or six years,you know, it took me a lot of
time to get my confidence back.
And I really, you know, as I sayin my writing, I learned, I
(26:39):
learned, there's a there's agoing back to kindergarten,
there's a quote by Winnie thePooh, you're braver than you
think, right? I thought, wow,you know, look what I can
accomplish. And it said, youknow, I learned that good things
can come from not so goodthings. I really never set out
in my life to say, Oh, I'm goingto write a book, you know, I'm
(27:02):
going to be an author. Like itwas never my Oh, my goodness, I
love to read. I was an avidreader. My goodness, I read all
the Nancy Drew books and allkinds of, you know, great,
popular, you know, writers whenI was younger. However, my gosh,
I just, you know, I justfinished it, you know, I just
finished a children's book, youknow, a debut children's book. I
(27:22):
have a service dog. I would havenever had that share come into
my life, my service dog who'strained for hearing alerts, if
that hadn't happened. So, youknow, the past is just a
chapter, not the whole book. AndI thought, you know, like Kelly,
I did a lot of, you know, soulsearching and researching. And
(27:43):
when people go through lifechanging events, we all often
look for meaning, like, why, whydid this happen? And you really
can, you know, you're really ina fork in the road. Sometimes, I
mean, you know, it's eitherOkay, I'm gonna go off and and
just, you know, figure this out.
And some times people never canfigure it out, and they, they
continue down that path. Orit's, it's like, Okay, I gotta
figure this out. This is not agood thing. I'm going to go
(28:05):
through the the stages of griefor loss my own way. And my way
was, OMG, but then what's next?
You know? And I guess I thought,okay, if I can, I saw a lot of a
lot of people that needed thatin, you know, hospitals when I
was recovering and my partnerwas recovering. So I thought,
(28:29):
you know, if I can turn thisinto something good, where I can
take my knowledge and wisdom soeverything I learned by looking
back, Sonia Kika belt has aquote, life is often understood
best, you know, moving forward,you know, rather than backward,
or moving backward rather thanforward. So looking at where I
was, looking how far I come, andsaying, My goodness, all of the
(28:53):
things that I've done, theteaching, the speaking, the
writing, working, you know,working with people with
disabilities, my own injury, youknow, helping my partner. You
know, working, you know, all ofthe the professional, personal
experience being a parent, itall. It all led into, you know,
(29:13):
where I am today, and I justsort of pulled it all together.
And, you know, tried to say,this is a bowl of cherries, you
know, not a and took a lemon andmade lemonade. So
Amy Tyler (29:25):
it sounds like, in ways, some of it, you were all
of you, maybe, but you werewriting a bit for yourself, but
that is the gift you're givingto everybody else. So I wanted
to conclude by talking aboutCanada. And this is not a
political podcast, by the way,but it seems like when you
(29:46):
mentioned Canada now it is. Now,what's interesting about these
awards is they're not anyone canwin the awards. You don't have
to be Canadian. But what'sCanadian about them is that
they're judged by Canadianreaders. Years. So we do, I do
have a number of listeners thatare American and from other
parts of the world, and can litor Canadian literature can have
(30:09):
a little bit of a negativeconnotation at times that it's
often super well written, butisn't necessarily fun always.
And the I think the purpose ofthese awards, it's a bit
broader, you know, trying tocapture, I think, all types of
readers. But I just wanted toknow it just so happens all
(30:31):
three of you are Canadian. Whatwould you say is, is there
anything, if at all, uniquelyCanadian about your books that
you've produced. And also thesecond question to that is,
obviously, as a small country,you want to tailor your content
for a broad audience, did youkind of have to tailor something
(30:54):
other than you know, maybe notadding re or ou into your
language? But I was just curiousabout that as well. So let's
start with Ben, what about you?
Unknown (31:05):
Well, yeah, sure, I think it's a great question. And
absolutely, my experiences arewith Canadians top performers as
a whole. So there's a hugeCanadian component to this. And
I think there's a couple ofmessages, I'd say, from that
most of my experiences throughthe Olympic Games, representing
Canada and working withCanadians who are doing their
(31:25):
best to put Canada on theinternational stage. But I think
the thing that's reallycompelling about being Canadian,
sometimes, as Canadians, we havethis sort of, let's sit back a
little bit as a mentality of,you know, we're not really
boastful about what we do, orwe're sort of the quiet country
that's always apologetic and andI think the one of the things,
(31:49):
if to your questionspecifically, is that all these
incredible high performers areCanadians. You know, we have so
many. And when I say highperformance, it's not just about
those that win. It's about thosethat commit. It's those who
strive to be their best and livetheir best lives in the way that
they can. It's those who striveto be incredible parents or
(32:10):
surgeons or first responders orit doesn't really matter. But
these stories are all fromCanadians and so these lessons
are all from likewise, citizensof our country that I think we
sometimes are quiet about asCanadians. So I think there's a
definite, strong Canadiancomponent to my book, and with
the lessons out of it,
Amy Tyler (32:32):
what about you?
Kelly?
Unknown (32:35):
I mean, I'm a veteran in the Canadian Armed Forces,
you will pry my Canadiana out ofmy cold, dead hands.
However,I and I'm a fourth generation
soldier in my family, my husbandis in the military, but that
said, grief and and loss areuniversal, and it's my first
(32:56):
book, which was about being inthe military really only
published in Canada because itwas very much a specific
audience. Whereas my second bookhas published here in the US
with Penguin. And I mean, atleast in Canada, in the writing
world, I have colleagues andfriends. Whereas down here I am
(33:19):
very I, because I currently livein the US. I am a very small fry
and and I I just miss it. So Ifeel like I will never want to
lose that part of myself. It'sfunny, because I am writing a
thriller right now, and it isvery encouraged to switch your
location to a US orinternational location to sell
(33:40):
it, and I'm a little lessprecious about it, but, I mean,
I write non fiction, so I can'treally change my location. I was
definitely influenced by theenvironment, by the medical
system that happens in Canada.
That's very different. But youcan't, you know, can't make it
up. So it was what it was.
Amy Tyler (34:01):
So where is it going to be set? Your thriller?
Unknown (34:05):
It's going to be set where I live right now. Oh,
interesting, which is I'm inUtica, New York, which is very
steel town, very, yeah, it'sfunny. It was originally set in
Peterborough, and they are verysimilar. They really remind me
(34:26):
of one another. So it wasactually a really easy switch.
But, you know, sometimes it's abusiness, sometimes it's your
heart on the page. Those arekind of different things that go
that don't always go hand inhand.
Amy Tyler (34:43):
What about you? Jane,
Unknown (34:46):
well, again, great question. And thank you, Kelly,
free to you and your family foryour service. I mean, wow. If
there was ever a time where weall needed to feel safe and
secure, you know. And. Reserve,you know, good, good, healthy
living. It's now. So thank you.
Thank you for that freedom thatthat you've provided over the
(35:09):
years, and you and your familyand your husband are now, and
freedom of choice, I and interms of being Canadian, I mean,
I in both my, you know, all ofmy books, my, you know, I always
have written in Canada andreference Canadian destinations.
I'm, I'm, you know, I've been aworld traveler. But I also chose
(35:29):
a James jam to talk about TerryFox. He's one of my heroes. And
growing up, I can rememberliving in Hamilton, Ontario, and
watching him come to Hamiltonand run through and I looked at
my my parents, and I said, Well,what's what? Wow. Like, how can
you do that? And, like, what's,you know? Because, of course, I
(35:50):
was just like, 10 or 11. I waslittle and didn't really
understand what a prosthesiswas, and, and my mom just said,
Well, you know, what he's doingis incredible. It's a miracle.
It's a miracle that he's evendoing this. So, you know, I talk
about, I have a story. I tellthe Terry Fox story. I don't
tell it in its entirety, but Ido speak about the influence
(36:10):
that one can have. You know,sharing their stories and
looking at the upside. I mean,he is a Canadian that is iconic,
and has changed the world, youknow, with his legacy and his
family. And really, I believe,brought us together as a
country, and brought the worldtogether, you know, with Terry
(36:31):
Fox runs. I mean, we, it doesn'tmatter if you're living in, you
know, the US or Canada orAustralia, Terry Fox runs are
universal now, and what awonderful thing. And that's
that, to me, is, is Canadian? Weall, we all, I agree with Ben.
We can be too apologeticsometimes and apologize for
things we shouldn't. But youknow what? At the heart of it,
(36:54):
we're great people, and we'vedone some great things around
the world and in our owncountry. And so I really tried
to celebrate his life, and thatwas my, you know, and talk about
things, you know, growing upthat were meaningful to me. So
hopefully that answers yourquestion.
We make some pretty great bookstoo. Yeah,
(37:16):
I am really thankful to theCanadian book club awards, and
it has expanded. Becausehonestly, when I I was very I'm
very grateful. I also wanted aBook Club Award in 2022 for
butter side up, which I'm verythankful for. And at that time,
you could only be Canadian toeat, and so they, they've
modified it, and they've openedit up. So I think again, that's
that's a very wonderful aspectof Canadian living, is that
(37:41):
we're very kind, we're very kindhearted people, and we're very
inclusive. So I think that thewhole award speaks to that, and
I'm very grateful to have you.
Amy, oh, thank you to help usall celebrate. So
Amy Tyler (37:52):
thank you. Well, that's that's all I have today.
And you know what? I have tothank all of you. Because I was
a little bit hesitant. I waslike, how am I going to juggle
all these people? And itactually was really fun, and I
love that, the interplay and thenatural just back and forth. So
thank you for that. Anyway.
Thank you so much, and Iappreciate it. So I
Unknown (38:17):
can't wait to read everyone's books. I have to dash
because I'm into a book club,they will not care about me.
They only ever want to talkabout my husband.
Amy Tyler (38:27):
I must go. Okay. So
Unknown (38:29):
nice to meet everybody.
So much.
Thanks, so much. Thanks. Amy.
Take care. Thank you. Thank you.
It's great. Happy Summer,everybody. Bye, bye, bye.
Amy Tyler (38:44):
So thanks so much to Ben, Jean and Kelly for a great
discussion. We kind of had itall. We had some laughs, a few
tears, and surprisingly, youknow that last question I threw
in about Canadian Heritage, Ididn't expect the answers that I
got, and that was really lovely.
And as a dual citizen, I wasraised the United States, but
(39:10):
I've lived in Canada a very longtime. I just thought that was
really beautiful and very wellsaid. So the three books we
talked about today were outputby Ben Spore, James jam, by Jane
Enright, and still I cannot saveyou, by Kelly S Thompson. And be
(39:32):
sure to check out the show notesif you want links to either
applying for the Canadian bookclub awards, or being a verified
reader, that sounds kind of fun.
So thanks so much for listening,and I'll be back in a few more
weeks with another group ofauthors from the Canadian book
(39:53):
club awards, and we'll haveanother discussion. Thanks so
much for tuning in, and I'lltalk with you later. You.
Greatest feat of this book was to take something so
(00:03):
ugly, so many years of ugly, andto squeeze some beauty out of
that. And and that can only bedone really by taking it, taking
something and really liketurning it up to the light and
looking at it from differentangles. And that angle often has
to not be your own. There was soI like to think I made something
(00:24):
beautiful out of it. You
Amy Tyler (00:40):
Amy Tyler, hello.
Welcome back to the Red Fernbook review. I am your host, Amy
Tyler, and today I'm going to doa little bit of a switch up, and
I have the opportunity tointerview three authors who are
(01:01):
recent recipients of theCanadian book club awards. And
what's going on is the Canadianbook club awards have sponsored
me to do three podcasts over thesummer, and I'm going to be
highlighting the recent winners.
So this is a great opportunityto introduce you to some new
(01:25):
authors and who've written in avariety of genres. So I'm going
to tell you a little bit aboutthe awards, and then a little
give you a little preview on theauthors, and then we'll move
over and talk with them. So thefirst thing I want to tell you
is that the Canadian book clubawards are Canada's largest
(01:47):
Readers Choice Awards. They'reopen to all authors, regardless
of publishing type. That meansself published authors,
traditional authors, and authorswho've kind of done a hybrid of
the two. And the submissions forthe 2025 awards are still open,
(02:08):
so I'm going to put a link tothe awards in the show notes, in
case you're an author and wouldlike to apply. And then another
really fun thing is the waythese awards work is they're
open to anybody, any author fromaround the world, but they are
(02:31):
judged by Canadian readers. Soif you want to sign up to
actually be a reader for theawards, you can do that, and
I'll also send you a link, orput a link in the show notes for
that. So that's kind of cool.
Okay, so over to the authorsthemselves. Today. We're going
to talk with three authorswho've written in non fiction,
(02:51):
and it was really fun. As soonas we got on the call, they just
started gabbing. And it was verynatural, because they're all
interested in writing andreading, and they just were
sharing information, and kind offorgot I was there. And then one
of the authors, Kelly, was like,oh, wait a minute, we're here to
(03:14):
talk to Amy. So that's actuallyperfect. That's exactly what I
the environment that I hope tocreate. But let me tell you
about these, the authorsthemselves. So today we're going
to talk with Ben Spore, who'swritten a book called output,
optimizing your performance withlessons learned from sport. And
he's a high performance coach.
(03:38):
He primarily works with eliteathletes, but he also works with
anyone who wants to perform at ahigh level. And what he's done
is he's created a concise, veryaccessible book with kind of
tools and tricks that you canuse if you want to kind of glean
(03:59):
what people do, particularlyathletes, how they kind of tap
into high performance, and howyou might kind of apply that to
your own life. The second authorwe're going to talk to is Jane
Enright, and she's written abook called Jane's jam,
inspiration to create your superawesome life. She's written, I
(04:21):
call the book of it joyful. Onthe front cover, it's blue,
there's just a smiley face andsome wings, and it's just, it's
very joyful. But the bookactually has quite a serious
premise. She's been through somehealth situations and had some
(04:42):
personal losses, and she'screated a book to try and help
people through difficult times,kind of a little guidebook. And
the last author we're going tospeak with today is Kelly S
Thompson, and she's written abook called still a. Cannot save
you. And you may know about herfrom a previous memoir she wrote
(05:04):
a few years ago called Girlsneed not apply field notes from
the forces. So she was in theCanadian Forces, and has written
about some of her experiencesthere and some of the tough
things that she faced. But thisbook, I can't say enough about
this particular memoir that shewrote. It's about her sister who
(05:30):
ended up she was a drug addict,and so she has quite a
complicated relationship withher sister. Her sister then
became sober, but went on to dieof cancer. So I think what I
really liked about this book isjust it just was so honest and
(05:54):
vulnerable and just super wellwritten. So with that, I'd like
to move over and talk with theauthors. So I'm joined here by
then, Kelly and Jane, and you'reall writers, and you just kind
of got into it and start talkingabout publishing and writing,
and that's why we're here. Butyeah, why don't we just get
(06:17):
started? I just want to diveright in. And the first thing I
wanted to talk about is, Janeand Kelly, you're writing, you
know, what you wrote is quitepersonal, and you're both quite
vulnerable. And I just wanted totalk about how we'll start with
(06:40):
you, Kelly, in youracknowledgements, you thank your
sister, Megan, for telling youto write the book that you wrote
and not to leave out the uglyparts. So one of the things I
just wanted to observe is thatyou are very vulnerable and
honest, and that makeseverything very authentic. And I
think as a writer, the morepersonal you make things, the
(07:02):
more people can tap into theirown they don't know. They don't
necessarily can't relate to yourstory, but they can relate to
those feelings of, you know,love and loss and
disappointment. So I just wantedto ask about what was that like
for you to be so vulnerable, andhow did you also decide what to
share and not share.
Unknown (07:23):
This is a big question with so many I don't even
answer, but I think when itcomes to my sister, when she was
dying and was quite the victimof domestic violence and was an
addict for many years, so ourrelationship had a lot of ups
and downs, and even as she wasdying. She was making these
choices around her marriage andher children that were really
(07:45):
hard for us as her family on theother side. And there were so
many moments where my sister andI would connect eyes over
everyone else, and you seesomething in one another that
only you can as siblings, Ithink, and I she used to say to
me, you're so much stronger thanme while she's laying in a
(08:06):
hospice bed dying. And I'dthink, who are we kidding here?
But sometimes I think she sherelied on me to do some
emotional heavy lifting for herthat she wasn't able to do in
terms of dying is hard work. Sheshe didn't have enough time to
dedicate elsewhere, and when shesaid to me, write all the ugly
parts, it was my sister reallyliked to smooth over some of the
(08:29):
ugly edges of her life, becauseit was easier to cope with that
way. And Who among us has donethe same thing? So having my
sister's permission to do ithelped. It was also my second
memoir. So at the time my sisterwas dying, I was writing my
first one about being in themilitary and about sexual
(08:51):
harassment. So I think, likelaying it all out there is sort
of par for my course. We used tolaugh my sister and I too,
because we come from this superfamily where, generationally,
you kind of keep things toyourself. You don't do a lot of
complaining, you don't overshare. I I make a profession now
(09:11):
out of oversharing. So I hadthis moment when I was trying to
think about what to include andwhat not, because the book does
really sit with a lot ofdifficult, emotional, ugly
moments, including the scenewhere she dies is very intense,
but as you do when you losesomeone, I was like, this is a
(09:32):
great time for a PhD. It wasn'tbut I didn't anyways. And I was
studying creative writing andhow you write about grief, and I
was so I was reading all thesebooks on grief and everything
would kind of martyrize Theperson who died. They were
perfect, they were wonderful.
They were we're ugly and flawed.
That's what makes us beautiful.
That's why we read memoir.
(09:54):
That's why we read nonfiction, Ithink, to learn and grow from
our mistakes. And I. So reallylooking at it from an academic
side contributed to how Ibrought in the heart of the book
as well.
Amy Tyler (10:09):
What about you? Jane, what was your process and how?
How did you decide what toinclude and not to include, in
terms of when you were kind ofexplaining what had happened to
you?
Unknown (10:21):
Oh, well, thank you. I think it's a great question, and
I feel very honored and gratefulto be in such esteemed company
with Kelly and Ben And you, ofcourse. I mean, I'm a very I
don't have any formal trainingas a writer. I wrote for
business, but I don't have anEnglish degree. I mean, yes, I
have an English I have abackground writing reports and a
(10:41):
university degree, but as myfather would say, Jane, you have
a DPE, a Doctorate of personalexperience. You don't have a
PhD, you have a DPE. And that'ssomething we all have. And when
I was, I mean, I went throughlike Kelly, I went through a
grieving process of losing a lotof things in my life, three very
sad, you know, traumatic events,all within 365 days, almost to
(11:04):
the day. And of course, one ofthe cornerstones of that was my
my relationship with my bestfriend, Jen, who was my rock and
my source of support through Iwas go, I was going through a
lot of these things, and notthen all of a sudden, at the
end, boom, she was gone. And,you know, I think in terms of
authenticity, I'm always, Ibelieve in being your true,
(11:27):
authentic self and sharing, butI also, you know, always with
love, do no harm. I could haveput in a lot more of the ugly
parts about what was going onaround me, because it's been my
experience with trauma and lossthat people it's almost like, oh
my gosh, you know, I can'thandle that, you know? And they
(11:48):
sort of back away, and theycan't necessarily deal with the
feelings that you'reexperiencing, and they don't
want to be around that. Andthat's fair. So I didn't try and
sugarcoat things, but I sort ofjust like to write in a very
salient, practical way. And Ishared, I shared very personal
writing, like my note to Jen,that was a real that was my real
(12:09):
letter to her, like in thehospital, you know, when she was
passing and, you know, it waslike she was a very no nonsense.
Let's get it done. But I reallygot forward with a lot of
gratitude. And I said, look at Iwish I could take this all away
from you. This is the mostterrible thing that has ever
happened to us as friends, butI'm grateful you called me and
(12:30):
said that you needed me. And Isaid, it's the worst call I ever
got, but it's the best call Iever got, and that's sort of how
I move forward with it. But Ididn't, you know, I chose very I
didn't choose to writenecessarily about reactions of
others while all of this washappening. And, you know, that's
that's just me. I hope Iincluded. I hope I included. I
tried to include examples andbring brevity to it with the
(12:54):
humor that I tried to see, whichis not diminishing what
happened, but rather saying,Okay, this has happened. I
accept it. I'm not happy aboutit, and neither are the people
around me. But how are we goingto move forward? So that's sort
of how I approached my writing.
Amy Tyler (13:12):
Now, second to that, you, you do have humor in the
book, and I it's also even fromthe cover, like it's it's
joyful. So talk about thatchoice, and also how your
ability, I mean, you talk aboutyou have a process to become
positive, and that's what thebook's about. But where does
that come from? That ability to
Unknown (13:34):
be joyful? Oh, well, thank you for that. Like light,
life's not all lollipops andrainbows. I mean, Kelly's been
in the military, military, Ben,you're a sports psychologist. I
mean, we all you know, you know,Amy, you're, you're, you're an
editor and a writer yourself.
So, I mean, I come from a placeagain, I'll go back to
acceptance. You're not, you knowyou're you're not happy
necessarily, about what'shappened in your life. This
(13:57):
unexpected change, unexpectedchange can bring wonderful
things, you know, like amarriage proposal or a new
relationship, or, you know, awindfall of money or birth of a
baby, but it can also bring theheart sad and ugly. Is like,
wow, this came out of leftfield. I don't know where this
came from. I used to teachkindergarten. Years ago, I
taught in an indigenouscommunity in sachika lake, and I
(14:19):
loved it, and it was a veryhappenstance, you know,
experience that I went there tojoin my spouse, and he was
teaching at the time, and theyjust suddenly needed someone,
because somebody was ill, and Ihad teaching experience, so they
hired me. And so I reallylearned a lot. I come back to
all we I really need to know Ilearned in kindergarten. So I
(14:42):
was, when I was coming up withthe book, I thought, you know,
I've gotta, I've gotta tellpeople how I handled this in a
very simple ways andstraightforward way and
authentic way. So I came up withOMG outside and thinking
mindfulness and gratitude. Sowhen we go through a crisis, we
say, Oh my god. My goodness, oh,my God. What's next? It's just
our brain's way of processing.
(15:04):
And I said to myself, well, OMG,how can I break that down? So
that's what I started to do. AndI drew a lot of a lot of soul
searching from author Michael Ssinger the Untethered Soul
mindfulness from obviouslyeveryday living we, you know, a
mindfulness is how we seeourself and the world around us.
And gratitude, obviously, youknow, being thankful for what we
(15:28):
have, rather than seeing theglass half empty, you know, see
it half full. So we live in avery fast paced, busy, uncertain
world. So I hope that's comeacross in my writing, that
ability to just, you know, bevery straightforward and say,
You know what things happen inlife. And I took some of my
business experience about changeand organizational change and
(15:49):
applied it to personalcircumstances, and tried to
write and, you know, with alighter side, like a Stuart
McLean sort of approach to life,who I really admire as a writer,
Amy Tyler (16:01):
I think, I think you've done that and done that
well. And Ben, I wanted to askyou about accessibility, and
you've written a technical book,but it is also quite access,
accessible to and i You've,you're taking, you're talking
(16:22):
about the lessons you've learnedwith athletes and applying it to
lessons anyone could use. Socould you talk about how you
take, I know you have a PhD,like, how, how do you make
something palatable to orunderstandable to a broader
audience? And what kind ofchoices did you make?
Unknown (16:43):
That's a great question, and thanks for having
me as well. With the otherauthors, it's really great to
hear their stories, and it's anhonor to be here, and I listened
to both of you just speak, and Iit actually ties into the answer
I'm going to give you right nowis, I am a scientist. I'm a
technical scientist. I'm trainedas a scientist, a physiologist.
Just to be clear, mypsychologist friends would be
(17:05):
apt to hear that I'm callingmyself a psychologist. So I do
want to clarify. I'm aphysiologist. Can you explain
what that is? Yeah? And I'lljust yeah, a physiologist. So
what I do is I understand thesystems of the body. That's the
easiest way to describe it, thathow all these different systems
function together. And I had it.
I had a trained expertise withregards to exercise and how they
relate to exercise, whether it'sthe hormonal system, the
(17:26):
cardiovascular system, thenervous system, any of the
systems, and how they functiontogether and the response to
exercise. And that's my trainingbackground. So it's very
scientific. We do a lot ofresearch, but early on, even
when I was when I was working inthe field and learning and going
through my master's degree, Ialways found myself working in
the applied side of it. I likedthe research. I loved
(17:50):
understanding and learning, andso I had this tendency in this
pull, and this gravitationalpull to work in the applied
area. And I kept getting told bymy mentors and such like you
really had a knack for beingable to relate to people, to
translate the knowledge baseinto a place that's digestible
and usable. But it was reallydifficult to write like that,
(18:12):
like, you know, like I've saidthis many times to different
people, like this was probablythe most challenging thing I've
done in my career in a longtime, to write in one voice that
reached a lot of differentpeople. And I think one of my
skill sets is to be able todigest how the conversation is
(18:33):
going with an individual andchange so that it comes in a
language that they're able tounderstand and relate to. But
when you're trying to do that ina book, you really have to do it
in one voice for 1000s ofdifferent people. And that was a
real challenge for me. I also,you know, one of the things I
said at the very outgo of thebook, when my partner, Trina,
(18:54):
and I were talking about doingthis, was that I don't want to
write another science book.
There's so many great books outthere. The science changes all
the time, and what we had gottenasked a lot about and questions
that we had come up to us wasalways about, what's your
thoughts on x, or what's youropinion on Y? How would you
(19:16):
approach this? And so really,the book was trying to create
almost a structure in how Iactually walk through this in
any situation, whether it bewith a team, an athlete, an
individual. And I work primarilyin sport, but I've been working
a lot over the last 20 years,translating this across to
different people. And one of thethings that I've often seen too,
(19:37):
and actually both you just spoketo this, is this concept of
like, I actually believe we areall performers. You know, I work
in high performance sport, but Isee the world through a
performance lens. And so when Ispeak to people, and I work with
people, I view whatever it isthey're trying to achieve as a
performance. And so for someonethat's not as specific as an
(19:57):
elite athlete, you know, if it'sanyone. Of us on this call, or
any one of our friends or anyonethat you're talking about in
your books, we have to be ableto perform at a level just the
objectives different. We have tobe able to be there for our
partners or our family membersor our friends. We have to be
able to rise to the occasion todo stuff that's difficult, under
pressure, sometimes not in thebest circumstances. And that's
(20:21):
really performance. It's notoutcome based. So when we going
back to the writing part of thisis, how do I create that in one
voice? And so honestly, the bestway we decided, I tried writing
and it wasn't working. And soTrina and I would go for hikes,
and it happened during COVID,where she would just ask me
questions, and I'd speak to her,and we'd record it, and then we
(20:43):
go for hikes every day, becausewe couldn't do anything else
during COVID. And we just recordthis. We'd re we'd bring it
back, we'd put it down on paper.
And over about four months, wehad, you know, 50, 60,000 words
that were digestible and requestioned back in a language.
And obviously you go through theediting process. But that was
the easiest way for me to do it,rather than because every time I
sat down, it was like, Okay,what's the reference for this?
(21:03):
What's the, you know,physiological background for
this? And and that's not what Ifelt people were really asking
for when they wanted the book.
That's
Amy Tyler (21:12):
interesting that you were hiking, because that's
obviously something you're verycomfortable doing. So you're
you're in the right zone torelay information in an
authentic way.
Unknown (21:23):
Yeah, and authenticity had to be really, it was an
important part for us, becauseit's really this field is full
of, I would call it nonauthentic authenticity, and it
doesn't mean that there's notpeople that really value it. But
for me, I couldn't write, or Icouldn't speak in a way that
was, you know, marketing style,or even how we would promote the
(21:45):
book, and the the publishersjust really got frustrated with
me because I wasn't going to goon social media and promote it,
because I'm not It's notauthentic to who I am, and it
had to be authentic.
Amy Tyler (21:56):
So all of you are teachers, or have been teachers,
and I wanted to ask you, I mean,Ben, you've kind of answered
this, but Kelly and Jane, whathave you learned through this
process? Like you're obviouslylifelong learners, but what,
what was kind of an unexpectedskill you gained, or something
(22:20):
you learned about yourselfthrough writing your books.
Kelly, do you want to
Unknown (22:27):
start? Yeah, where do I even begin? It's funny because I
teach creative nonfiction,specifically at a master's
program, and they jokingly, kindof call me team trauma, because
that's usually my specialty. Sopeople are coming to me with
their most deeply woundingstories and trusting me to hold
(22:51):
those tenderly for them. I don'tthink I held my own sister very
tenderly, often, um, frustratedwith her addiction, frustrated
with her decisions that I didn'twant her to make. So in writing,
(23:11):
I was really surprised, becauseI was also, like I said,
researching it sort of from thisacademic perspective, how much
compassion I developed, partlyfor her and also partly for all
of us who were in this horriblesituation, losing someone we
loved, watching them wither andbeing powerless. So I studied
(23:35):
domestic violence so that Icould understand it. I spoke to
psychologists, I spoke to peoplewho worked in domestic violence
shelters, young younger me waslike, why don't you just walk
away? Well, of course, it's notthat easy. There's 900 million
other factors that are going onat the same time. And then what
about what about compassion? Foryounger me, there's kind of like
(23:59):
an early scene that happenswhere my sister is by as a kite,
and we're trying to buysomething for my parents for
Christmas, and I'm trying to,just like, get her going. She is
a shell of a human, and all Ican do is be angry about my big,
important military job and thefact that my sister is not kind
of complying with what I want.
Instead of looking at her pain,I've grown as a instructor, as a
(24:21):
as a person, um, withtenderness. That's been a big
gift. I think of this book, Ihave cried at every interview I
have done about this book, likeevery single one. So I'm not
gonna lie, it's not the firsttime, but
Amy Tyler (24:43):
that's good. That's what, yeah, hoping for. I know
it's like, no, but. And I sentyou a note on the side, and one
of the things I was really movedby was, and I think a lot of
times when I work with writers,is, I think we all have a
tendency. Easy to protect. Youknow, if you're writing a
personal story, but the thingis, is that the love shown
(25:06):
through because you didn't dothat is it's just so honest. So
Unknown (25:10):
I always said too, that the greatest feat of this book
was to take something so ugly,so many years of ugly, and to
squeeze some beauty out of that.
And that can only be done reallyby taking it, taking something
and really like turning it up tothe light and looking at it from
different angles. And that angleoften has to not be your own.
There was so I like to think Imade something beautiful out of
(25:36):
it. You did,Jane, what about you? I agree. I
agree with you. I mean, thefirst point in my journey was
that I had a very traumaticinjury. I was slammed in the
head with a volleyball at asporting event. And it wasn't my
fault. It was just, it justhappened. I wasn't playing. I
(25:56):
was a spectator sitting where Iwas supposed to be sitting. So
that was, like, huge. It justboom, my life just changed
forever. And I might might,thankfully, I've with a lot of,
you know, help from a speechpathologist, you know, and a lot
of really purposeful, mindfulliving and new habits, I got
(26:17):
through that. So it's a miracle,you know, it's a miracle that
I'm actually as comfortable as Iam speaking. I couldn't do that.
I couldn't I couldn't talk. Iused to talk for a living, and,
you know, for five or six years,you know, it took me a lot of
time to get my confidence back.
And I really, you know, as I sayin my writing, I learned, I
(26:39):
learned, there's a there's agoing back to kindergarten,
there's a quote by Winnie thePooh, you're braver than you
think, right? I thought, wow,you know, look what I can
accomplish. And it said, youknow, I learned that good things
can come from not so goodthings. I really never set out
in my life to say, Oh, I'm goingto write a book, you know, I'm
(27:02):
going to be an author. Like itwas never my Oh, my goodness, I
love to read. I was an avidreader. My goodness, I read all
the Nancy Drew books and allkinds of, you know, great,
popular, you know, writers whenI was younger. However, my gosh,
I just, you know, I justfinished it, you know, I just
finished a children's book, youknow, a debut children's book. I
(27:22):
have a service dog. I would havenever had that share come into
my life, my service dog who'strained for hearing alerts, if
that hadn't happened. So, youknow, the past is just a
chapter, not the whole book. AndI thought, you know, like Kelly,
I did a lot of, you know, soulsearching and researching. And
(27:43):
when people go through lifechanging events, we all often
look for meaning, like, why, whydid this happen? And you really
can, you know, you're really ina fork in the road. Sometimes, I
mean, you know, it's eitherOkay, I'm gonna go off and and
just, you know, figure this out.
And some times people never canfigure it out, and they, they
continue down that path. Orit's, it's like, Okay, I gotta
figure this out. This is not agood thing. I'm going to go
(28:05):
through the the stages of griefor loss my own way. And my way
was, OMG, but then what's next?
You know? And I guess I thought,okay, if I can, I saw a lot of a
lot of people that needed thatin, you know, hospitals when I
was recovering and my partnerwas recovering. So I thought,
(28:29):
you know, if I can turn thisinto something good, where I can
take my knowledge and wisdom soeverything I learned by looking
back, Sonia Kika belt has aquote, life is often understood
best, you know, moving forward,you know, rather than backward,
or moving backward rather thanforward. So looking at where I
was, looking how far I come, andsaying, My goodness, all of the
(28:53):
things that I've done, theteaching, the speaking, the
writing, working, you know,working with people with
disabilities, my own injury, youknow, helping my partner. You
know, working, you know, all ofthe the professional, personal
experience being a parent, itall. It all led into, you know,
(29:13):
where I am today, and I justsort of pulled it all together.
And, you know, tried to say,this is a bowl of cherries, you
know, not a and took a lemon andmade lemonade. So
Amy Tyler (29:25):
it sounds like, in ways, some of it, you were all
of you, maybe, but you werewriting a bit for yourself, but
that is the gift you're givingto everybody else. So I wanted
to conclude by talking aboutCanada. And this is not a
political podcast, by the way,but it seems like when you
(29:46):
mentioned Canada now it is. Now,what's interesting about these
awards is they're not anyone canwin the awards. You don't have
to be Canadian. But what'sCanadian about them is that
they're judged by Canadianreaders. Years. So we do, I do
have a number of listeners thatare American and from other
parts of the world, and can litor Canadian literature can have
(30:09):
a little bit of a negativeconnotation at times that it's
often super well written, butisn't necessarily fun always.
And the I think the purpose ofthese awards, it's a bit
broader, you know, trying tocapture, I think, all types of
readers. But I just wanted toknow it just so happens all
(30:31):
three of you are Canadian. Whatwould you say is, is there
anything, if at all, uniquelyCanadian about your books that
you've produced. And also thesecond question to that is,
obviously, as a small country,you want to tailor your content
for a broad audience, did youkind of have to tailor something
(30:54):
other than you know, maybe notadding re or ou into your
language? But I was just curiousabout that as well. So let's
start with Ben, what about you?
Unknown (31:05):
Well, yeah, sure, I think it's a great question. And
absolutely, my experiences arewith Canadians top performers as
a whole. So there's a hugeCanadian component to this. And
I think there's a couple ofmessages, I'd say, from that
most of my experiences throughthe Olympic Games, representing
Canada and working withCanadians who are doing their
(31:25):
best to put Canada on theinternational stage. But I think
the thing that's reallycompelling about being Canadian,
sometimes, as Canadians, we havethis sort of, let's sit back a
little bit as a mentality of,you know, we're not really
boastful about what we do, orwe're sort of the quiet country
that's always apologetic and andI think the one of the things,
(31:49):
if to your questionspecifically, is that all these
incredible high performers areCanadians. You know, we have so
many. And when I say highperformance, it's not just about
those that win. It's about thosethat commit. It's those who
strive to be their best and livetheir best lives in the way that
they can. It's those who striveto be incredible parents or
(32:10):
surgeons or first responders orit doesn't really matter. But
these stories are all fromCanadians and so these lessons
are all from likewise, citizensof our country that I think we
sometimes are quiet about asCanadians. So I think there's a
definite, strong Canadiancomponent to my book, and with
the lessons out of it,
Amy Tyler (32:32):
what about you?
Kelly?
Unknown (32:35):
I mean, I'm a veteran in the Canadian Armed Forces,
you will pry my Canadiana out ofmy cold, dead hands.
However,I and I'm a fourth generation
soldier in my family, my husbandis in the military, but that
said, grief and and loss areuniversal, and it's my first
(32:56):
book, which was about being inthe military really only
published in Canada because itwas very much a specific
audience. Whereas my second bookhas published here in the US
with Penguin. And I mean, atleast in Canada, in the writing
world, I have colleagues andfriends. Whereas down here I am
(33:19):
very I, because I currently livein the US. I am a very small fry
and and I I just miss it. So Ifeel like I will never want to
lose that part of myself. It'sfunny, because I am writing a
thriller right now, and it isvery encouraged to switch your
location to a US orinternational location to sell
(33:40):
it, and I'm a little lessprecious about it, but, I mean,
I write non fiction, so I can'treally change my location. I was
definitely influenced by theenvironment, by the medical
system that happens in Canada.
That's very different. But youcan't, you know, can't make it
up. So it was what it was.
Amy Tyler (34:01):
So where is it going to be set? Your thriller?
Unknown (34:05):
It's going to be set where I live right now. Oh,
interesting, which is I'm inUtica, New York, which is very
steel town, very, yeah, it'sfunny. It was originally set in
Peterborough, and they are verysimilar. They really remind me
(34:26):
of one another. So it wasactually a really easy switch.
But, you know, sometimes it's abusiness, sometimes it's your
heart on the page. Those arekind of different things that go
that don't always go hand inhand.
Amy Tyler (34:43):
What about you? Jane,
Unknown (34:46):
well, again, great question. And thank you, Kelly,
free to you and your family foryour service. I mean, wow. If
there was ever a time where weall needed to feel safe and
secure, you know. And. Reserve,you know, good, good, healthy
living. It's now. So thank you.
Thank you for that freedom thatthat you've provided over the
(35:09):
years, and you and your familyand your husband are now, and
freedom of choice, I and interms of being Canadian, I mean,
I in both my, you know, all ofmy books, my, you know, I always
have written in Canada andreference Canadian destinations.
I'm, I'm, you know, I've been aworld traveler. But I also chose
(35:29):
a James jam to talk about TerryFox. He's one of my heroes. And
growing up, I can rememberliving in Hamilton, Ontario, and
watching him come to Hamiltonand run through and I looked at
my my parents, and I said, Well,what's what? Wow. Like, how can
you do that? And, like, what's,you know? Because, of course, I
(35:50):
was just like, 10 or 11. I waslittle and didn't really
understand what a prosthesiswas, and, and my mom just said,
Well, you know, what he's doingis incredible. It's a miracle.
It's a miracle that he's evendoing this. So, you know, I talk
about, I have a story. I tellthe Terry Fox story. I don't
tell it in its entirety, but Ido speak about the influence
(36:10):
that one can have. You know,sharing their stories and
looking at the upside. I mean,he is a Canadian that is iconic,
and has changed the world, youknow, with his legacy and his
family. And really, I believe,brought us together as a
country, and brought the worldtogether, you know, with Terry
(36:31):
Fox runs. I mean, we, it doesn'tmatter if you're living in, you
know, the US or Canada orAustralia, Terry Fox runs are
universal now, and what awonderful thing. And that's
that, to me, is, is Canadian? Weall, we all, I agree with Ben.
We can be too apologeticsometimes and apologize for
things we shouldn't. But youknow what? At the heart of it,
(36:54):
we're great people, and we'vedone some great things around
the world and in our owncountry. And so I really tried
to celebrate his life, and thatwas my, you know, and talk about
things, you know, growing upthat were meaningful to me. So
hopefully that answers yourquestion.
We make some pretty great bookstoo. Yeah,
(37:16):
I am really thankful to theCanadian book club awards, and
it has expanded. Becausehonestly, when I I was very I'm
very grateful. I also wanted aBook Club Award in 2022 for
butter side up, which I'm verythankful for. And at that time,
you could only be Canadian toeat, and so they, they've
modified it, and they've openedit up. So I think again, that's
that's a very wonderful aspectof Canadian living, is that
(37:41):
we're very kind, we're very kindhearted people, and we're very
inclusive. So I think that thewhole award speaks to that, and
I'm very grateful to have you.
Amy, oh, thank you to help usall celebrate. So
Amy Tyler (37:52):
thank you. Well, that's that's all I have today.
And you know what? I have tothank all of you. Because I was
a little bit hesitant. I waslike, how am I going to juggle
all these people? And itactually was really fun, and I
love that, the interplay and thenatural just back and forth. So
thank you for that. Anyway.
Thank you so much, and Iappreciate it. So I
Unknown (38:17):
can't wait to read everyone's books. I have to dash
because I'm into a book club,they will not care about me.
They only ever want to talkabout my husband.
Amy Tyler (38:27):
I must go. Okay. So
Unknown (38:29):
nice to meet everybody.
So much.
Thanks, so much. Thanks. Amy.
Take care. Thank you. Thank you.
It's great. Happy Summer,everybody. Bye, bye, bye.
Amy Tyler (38:44):
So thanks so much to Ben, Jean and Kelly for a great
discussion. We kind of had itall. We had some laughs, a few
tears, and surprisingly, youknow that last question I threw
in about Canadian Heritage, Ididn't expect the answers that I
got, and that was really lovely.
And as a dual citizen, I wasraised the United States, but
(39:10):
I've lived in Canada a very longtime. I just thought that was
really beautiful and very wellsaid. So the three books we
talked about today were outputby Ben Spore, James jam, by Jane
Enright, and still I cannot saveyou, by Kelly S Thompson. And be
(39:32):
sure to check out the show notesif you want links to either
applying for the Canadian bookclub awards, or being a verified
reader, that sounds kind of fun.
So thanks so much for listening,and I'll be back in a few more
weeks with another group ofauthors from the Canadian book
(39:53):
club awards, and we'll haveanother discussion. Thanks so
much for tuning in, and I'lltalk with you later. You.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.