October 22, 2021 • 25 mins
Geoff is back living out his lifetime loves of surfing and music through fiction. The first book discussed is Paul Theroux's Under the Wave at Waimea. Set in Hawaii, this epic novel follows the life of aging surfer Joe Sharkey as he grapples with a fatal accident that forces him to face down his past. The second book, The Final Revival of Opal and Nev by Dawnie Walton, is a rock novel set in the 1970s. Cleverly written as an oral history, this book by first-time author Walton examines gender inequality, race and pop culture through the lens of the music industry. The audio version of this book features several voice actors and makes for a compelling listening experience that blurs the line between fiction and reality.
Book and resources discussed:
100 Foot Wave, HBO
Under the Wave at Waimea by Paul Theroux
The Mosquito Coast by Paul Theroux
The Mosquito Coast, Apple TV
The Great Railway Bizarre by Paul Theroux
Daisy and the Six by Taylor Jenkins Reid
Crossroads by Jonathan Franzen
The Corrections by Jonathan Franzen
Great Circle: A Novel by Maggie Shipstead
The Broom of the System by David Foster Wallace
Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Geoff Mair (00:00):
It's actually an epic, epic.
Amy Mair (00:01):
It's an epic. It's an epic, and
Geoff Mair (00:03):
it's actually written in epic form.
Amy Mair (00:05):
Oh, what's that the form?
Geoff Mair (00:07):
epic form means you sort of start the story towards
the end of this story, then yougo back in time, and you tell
the history of how you got tothat point, and then you tell
the end of the story. That'sepic form. And it's written in
epic form.
Amy Mair (00:22):
Did you know that or did you look that up?
Geoff Mair (00:24):
No, I knew that. Oh, my God as I was reading it. Oh,
Amy Mair (00:27):
I'm impressed.
(00:57):
Hello, welcome back to the redFern book review. I am your
host, Amy Mair. And stay. I'msitting in my PJs, hanging out
with my husband, Geoff, who'sagreed to come back for his
second visit.
Geoff Mair (01:13):
Thanks for having me back on me, super excited to be
here.
Amy Mair (01:16):
So today, we're going to talk about two books. The
first is Under the Wave atWaimea by Paul Theroux. And the
second book is The Final Revivalof Opal and Nev by Dawnie
Walton. But before we get intothose books, we're going to talk
(01:38):
about a show that Geoff reallylikes. So Geoff, why don't you
tell us about the show thatyou've been watching that you
really like?
Geoff Mair (01:46):
Well, before I get into the show, I get to tell a
little story. So when I was ingrade, eight, I had surfing
posters all over my wall. I gavemyself the nickname surf. I was
surf obsessed. I went throughbowls, or like, I even like, put
senan in my hair and tried tolook like a surfer. And I've
(02:09):
always loved surf culture, andlike there's something about
surfing that I find like justsuper, super cool. So
Amy Mair (02:16):
wait, hold on. I just had a memory when I first met
you, you have a scar on yourleg? I did. I asked you what
that was from and I still noteven sure that I know. But you
told me it was a Did you tell meI was a shark bite from surfing?
No,
Geoff Mair (02:32):
it is a surf injury.
It was from surfing in Australiaon a board I should never have
my buddies bought like a reallyshort board and we were on a
rugby tour in Australia. And Iwent surfing on it and I wasn't
good enough. And it cut my legopen.
Amy Mair (02:46):
Oh, so it wasn't actually a cool story. I don't
think you told me that the waythat story that way, though.
When I met you, I feel like youhad some like a quest or journey
to like, impress me. I don'tknow. Anyway. Okay, so back to
the posters in your room.
Geoff Mair (02:59):
Yeah, so I've been surf obsessed, like lots of my
life. And I still have some ofthat in me. And I love love to
serve whenever I get theopportunity. And I love like
watching big wave surfing like Ilove watching surfing on on
television. I think it's amazingto watch and live obviously. So
(03:20):
the 100 Foot Wave is the storyof Nazare and surfing the
biggest wave in the world andthe people who basically figured
out how to surf it. And it'sjust it's an amazing
documentary. It's so fun. Andit's just so rich the colors and
watching the surfing and youknow, watching these guys figure
(03:44):
out how to how to surf the waveand just the whole drama around
it is really, really fun. Andit's watching surfing and nazare
is just amazing because it is atruly massive wave.
Amy Mair (03:57):
This is the shows on HBO for those that want to watch
it and it stars it's GarrettMcNamara that's the guy's name.
And the thing I'd also say aboutthis is there's not a lot of
shows that you and I actuallylike and I haven't watched all
of it but I enjoyed watching itwith you. And I also think teens
might like watching it withtheir parents and probably you
(04:19):
know it's kind of hard to findsomething we all want to watch.
Geoff Mair (04:23):
it's it's it's also just a really interesting sort
of character depiction ofGarrett McNamara it follows his
entire career. And he is a veryvery driven very like highly
motivated surfer. It's justreally interesting to watch him
you know struggle with his ageand everything else. It's it's
(04:44):
about more than surfing but it'sYeah, it's a really great
Amy Mair (04:47):
and his wife isn't on it like she's helping him and
he's risking his life like
Geoff Mair (04:53):
she's his spotter.
She's, she's his teammates, youknow, and big wave surfing is a
team sport. And she's his primeteam.
Amy Mair (05:01):
And do they have children? Right?
Geoff Mair (05:03):
They have children?
Yes,
Amy Mair (05:04):
I can't. How many do they do? You know,
Geoff Mair (05:07):
I think two or three, I just had their little
kids. And it's like the, it isby far the most dangerous sport
in the world. These guys are,you know, they get humbled by
these waves, and they're justdragged under the water for
minutes at a time. It's quitefascinating.
Amy Mair (05:23):
So let's let's talk about the book because this is a
segue into the first book. And Iactually feel like Garrett, in
some form or another appears inthis book or some of the
potential events, but this isactually in the book. Oh, he's
actually named in the book. Oh,is he okay? Okay, so this book
is called Under the Wave atWaimea by Paul Theroux. And what
(05:46):
it's about, it's aboutprofessional Hawaiian surfer
named Joe Sharkey. And he's 62years old. And he's completely
Well, he's washed up and he'sgot issues. But the old guard or
even new people just worshipHim, He there's a whole legend
around him. And then otherpeople just sort of see him as
(06:08):
kind of sad. It's kind of andhe's grappling with things. And
what happens is he is involvedin a terrible accident and
accidentally kill someone. Andso this book is about how his
life kind of unravels or unfoldafter that event. And so, but
before we talk about the books,and we'll throw this over to
(06:29):
Geoff. I wanted to talk a littlebit about Paul Theroux himself.
So he is eight years old, he'swritten 52 books. And he has won
so many awards that I'm just noteven gonna list them here. But I
think this is about you don'tknow this stuff. He's actually
(06:50):
even more known for his travelwriting, than he is for his
novels. And he's the author of abook that I've heard of, but
don't know. And it's called theGreat Railway Bazaar. He wrote
the Mosquito Coast, which waspopular movie with Harrison Ford
years ago. And it's been remadeinto a show on Apple with his
(07:11):
nephew, Justin throw.
Geoff Mair (07:13):
Great show, by the way. Very, very fun. Very well
done.
Amy Mair (07:17):
you recommend that. So but a little bit about his
background, after he finishedcollege in the early 60s, he
joined the Peace Corps, and wasone of the first groups in the
Peace Corps. It was brand new atthe time, and he ended up and
Malawi. And he got superpolitical and ended up helping a
(07:37):
political opponent of the PrimeMinister escape to Uganda, and
he was expelled from the PeaceCorps spell from Malawi. And he
went on to have a veryinteresting political and
writing life. He lived all overthe world, I think it kind of
lived maybe the life that when Ifirst met you, you thought you
might live that kind of just,yeah, like, you travel around
Geoff Mair (07:59):
and have adventures.
I mean, that's what all of hisbooks are about. They're kind of
like, you know, I'm gonna go dointeresting things and see the
world and, you know, not worryabout money and and the things
that most people worry about.
That's the types of books hewrites.
Amy Mair (08:17):
Yeah. So he's had this amazing career. And this book is
set in Hawaii, where he actuallyhas lived off and on. He was he
spends about half his time inHawaii. And he's lived there for
30 years. And so I think thatreally, that's one of the
reasons I actually haven't readany of his other books, but it's
just seems so realistic. So I'mgoing to throw it over to you,
Geoff, and what would you thinkabout this book?
Geoff Mair (08:39):
Well, I've never read any thorough before and I
just loved his descriptions ofthings. He is a journeyman
writer. And I just love readinghis, you know, sort of very deep
descriptions of what life inHawaii is like, and even like,
what the foliage is like he, hegets into really, really minute
(08:59):
detail. And he really brings theworld to life through that. I
thought it was a veryinteresting book, because in the
beginning, it's all aboutsurfing and this character
Sharky sort of amazing surfingcareer. And, you know, sort of,
I'd say, 15% of the way into thebook, I'm like, okay, is this
(09:23):
all there is like he's like, Ilove surfing. I could talk about
surfing all day long. But, youknow, it kind of got a little
bit repetitive and I'm like,okay, that's this great surfer
fantastic. And then he has thiscrisis, where his life kind of
unfolds. And you see who thereal shark he is. And he kind of
(09:44):
figures out who he is. It'sreally about this very immature,
mature individual figuring outwho he is and going through
maturing at a very late stage inhis life in a very difficult
way. And it's lovely Just a it'sa beautiful story like I think
it's really really well writtenand fun and, and, and also just
(10:08):
quite heart heartwarming.
Amy Mair (10:10):
That's interesting.
That's that's a good point he'sforced into evolving like he's
he would rather not
Geoff Mair (10:16):
he would prefer not to, he'd love to just kind of go
off into the sunset as the greatSharkey surfer, and have lived
his life for surfing. But herealizes later in his life that
he actually can't like he justcan't do it. He has to build
some connections to other peopleand have relationships and
(10:36):
things that he just has neverhad to do throughout his life.
Amy Mair (10:39):
You know, one thing I thought about this book, it
makes it in a way old fashion.
And it's just kind ofinteresting. is okay. Most of
the book, you know, there mightbe other writers that can kind
of do what he does, but is asaga, or it's a it's just goes.
It's actually
Geoff Mair (10:58):
an epic, epic.
Amy Mair (10:59):
It's an epic.
Geoff Mair (11:00):
It's an epic, and it's actually written in epic
form.
Amy Mair (11:03):
Oh, what's that the form?
Geoff Mair (11:05):
epic form means you sort of start the story towards
the end of this story, then yougo back in time, and you tell
the history of how you got tothat point, and then you tell
the end of the story. That'sepic form. And it's written in
epic form.
Amy Mair (11:20):
Did you know that? Or did you look that up? No, I
Geoff Mair (11:22):
knew that. Oh, good as I was reading it, oh,
Amy Mair (11:24):
I'm impressed. So I think the thing that I thought
the middle part of the book, he,they flashback to his life, and
they go into every detail aboutevery bad thing and good thing
and anything that's everhappened to him from his
childhood. And that's kind ofrare now to like, go that into
(11:46):
that detail. But it really madefor a rich novel throw
Geoff Mair (11:51):
goes into great detail. Yeah, such an
experienced writer. I've neverread a book where they go into
this much detail, and you're notbored by it. No, really
everything. It's so rich.
Amy Mair (12:01):
Yeah. You know, but okay, the other thing we do have
to talk about is, is women inthis book, it I really was
conflicted. I I really likedthis book, too. But women are
not presented very well, in thisbook. Do you have thoughts on
that? And what are your What areyou?
Geoff Mair (12:19):
Yeah, I think he's kind of a bit of a misogynist,
at the beginning of the book.
But by the end of the book, he'snot so much. And so I had
struggles with how women weredepicted in the book as well.
But I think by the end of it, itkind of is essentially arguing
that that's not a good stance,like misogyny is not a it's not
(12:41):
a healthy way to live your life.
That's essentially the theme ofthe book. So you
Amy Mair (12:48):
felt you felt that that was addressed. I felt like
Geoff Mair (12:51):
it was, you know, his lifestyle and kind of how he
treated women. And his, it justkind of all blew up on him, too.
I don't think it was seen aspositive by the end of the book.
Amy Mair (13:05):
And then also, Hunter S. Thompson makes a lengthy
appearance in this book, andwhich I thought you'd probably
use to talk to me about him, andwhat do you think about that?
Geoff Mair (13:17):
I thought it was actually great. I mean, Sharkey
is living every man's kind ofdream of what they think they'd
like to live their life like andHunter S. Thompson is an
individual who's at the extremeof how every man would lead to
live their life. Yeah. And so itbrings these two characters
(13:38):
together in a way that, youknow, kind of almost seems real,
like it seems quite natural andactually seems like they might
be people who would have beenfriends, you know, in reality,
so if it worked, I thought,
Amy Mair (13:50):
so Paul actually knew Hunter S. Thompson. And
apparently he's known for doingthis he'll he'll weave in real
people, family, friends, famouspeople into his books. And
sometimes he gets in trouble forit, because it's fiction. So
like, there's an example wherehe had someone go to a dinner
party and say something theyshouldn't have said, but it was
all fictionalized. And so that'skind of a hallmark of something
(14:13):
that he does. And do you doanything else you want to talk
about with this book? Are weokay, I
Geoff Mair (14:19):
thought it was excellent. Okay. Really fun. And
no, I don't have any,
Amy Mair (14:23):
I think. Yeah, I think it was great. So okay, so let's
go on to the next book. AndGeoff read this book. And the
book is called The Final Revivalof Opal and Nev by Dawnie
Walton. And what do you have tosay about this book?
Geoff Mair (14:41):
So this book is about Opal Jewel and Nev
Campbell, who are a rock androll duo in the 1970s. And oval
jewel is kind of like a GraceJonesish character, I would say
and Nev, Campbell is like maybea poppier David Bowie. And
(15:02):
there, the story is all about,you know, their, the history of
kind of their, their rocket tostart in the 1970s. And, and
about how they took off. Thething I like the most about this
book is the device of the wayit's written. So it's all it the
(15:29):
whole entire book is told fromthe voice of Sonny Curtis, who
is a journalist for oralmagazine, an oral magazine is a
oral history of rock and roll.
And so the whole story is toldas an oral history of Oberlin,
Nev. And it's written as thoughit were, you know, in this
(15:50):
magazine. And
Amy Mair (15:55):
so it's written like a magazine article.
Geoff Mair (15:58):
It's written like an oral history. And, and the
magazine is actually an oralhistory. So it is actually
written as though it were themagazine, but the magazine is an
oral history magazine. So andwhen you I listened to it on
Audible, which was a really neatexperience, it actually took a
little while to get used tobecause it's an oral history.
(16:19):
And they have different peopletelling different parts of the
story, and actually saying thevoices of the people. So it's
not like being told a story.
It's like listening to realpeople telling their own oral
history. And so that device wasreally neat. Like, I found it.
super
Amy Mair (16:38):
interesting. Just think like you're listening to a
documentary. It's like you'relistening to a documentary,
Geoff Mair (16:43):
but it's not a documentary, because it's
fictional. And so it took awhile to get used to listening
to it, because it's not likelistening to a regular story.
But once I got used to listeningto it, I actually loved that
whole. Yeah, that device,because it made it seem so real.
And so you know, the things thatI loved about this book, it
(17:06):
gives a very, very sort of richdepiction of what the rock and
roll scene was like in the1970s. It's very detailed, and,
and just fine. And there's lotsof sort of crazy characters
around and lots of drama, youknow, behind stage at these rock
and roll shows. And yeah, Imean, that was very fun. And the
(17:30):
characters are very believable.
And, yeah, just the wholedepiction of the rock scene was
quite, quite interesting andfelt very real as I was
listening to it. I liked thecharacters a lot. But I found,
you know, the book got a littlerepetitive. Towards the end, it
(17:53):
focuses very heavily on thethemes of gender and race
inequality. And I thought it dida really good job of depicting
what those issues were like inthe 1970s. It was clearly, you
know, much worse than it is now.
But it's thanks. But it's, youknow, but I felt like by the end
(18:14):
of the book, and got veryrepetitive, and I was getting a
beat bit beaten over the headwith those themes. And so I
started to lose steam on ittowards the end of it, even
though it's a super good, Ienjoyed
Amy Mair (18:26):
it a lot. Is it a long book?
Geoff Mair (18:29):
It's, I'd say it's average, it's an average length
book. But yeah.
Amy Mair (18:34):
And then what about how would you compare this to
Daisy and the Six because that'swhat they're saying.
Geoff Mair (18:38):
And the six is much more fun. Like, I love rock and
roll, you know, novels, I thinkthey're super fun. Like, I just
love, you know, the combinationof music and literature. And
Daisy and the Six is just waymore fun. Like, it's way more,
it's later and kind of open devcan be a little bit dark. I
(19:02):
think it's it's, you know,opals, a very conflicted and
challenging character, and she'scares very much about right and
wrong. And so that, you know,comes out in how I feel about
the book because it's just, it'sa little bit dark. Daisy and the
Six was a lot more light andfun.
Amy Mair (19:22):
Daisy and the Six was an escape. Yeah,
Geoff Mair (19:24):
this is not an escape that
Amy Mair (19:27):
sounds like a clever literary devices used to and
also to talk about importantissues.
Geoff Mair (19:34):
Yeah, very important issues. But it's a lot more
heavy handed than something likeDaisy and the Six for sure.
Amy Mair (19:40):
Do you think this would be good? I read that this
is one of the top kind of audiobooks to listen to right now.
Would you think it would be justas good to read it?
Geoff Mair (19:51):
I would read it I would listen to it. Because I
thought the audio bookexperience with this. You know,
I think there's some books thatare really good as audio books
and other books. That are betterto be read. I've learned I've
learned that there is an audiobook because of the whole
experience of hearing different,
Amy Mair (20:06):
it different actors, because that's unusual because
usually when you listen toaudiobooks, they hire like I'm
listening to one right now I'mreading Great Circle by Maggie
Shipstead, which has beenshortlisted for the National
Book Award, but it's one personand she can do a British accent,
she can do children, and that'show most of them are.
Geoff Mair (20:27):
This one they're using probably, I'd say, four or
five, oh, speakers, okay. Andthey will do slightly different
voices, you can tell it's thesame person, but you know, but
the different. The differentcharacter voices lends itself
very well to the whole oralhistory part. And so it feels
very real when you're listeningto it. I'm not sure it would
(20:49):
have the same richness if youwere reading it as listening to
it.
Amy Mair (20:55):
Okay, well, that sounds good. And do we know
anything about Dawnie Walton?
I'm just looking her up rightnow. I should we should know. We
should have known thisbeforehand. I'm curious if this
is her first book. It is.
Geoff Mair (21:05):
It's her debut book.
Amy Mair (21:06):
She received her MFA from the Iowa Writers Workshop.
And holds a journalism degreefrom Florida A&M. And she's
young. And so this is her firstbook. Yeah. Oh, cool. Okay.
Anyway, so. Anything else youwant to say? No. Okay. I
Geoff Mair (21:25):
enjoyed both books.
I certainly like them to thewave. A lot. I thought it was a
great, super fun ride.
Amy Mair (21:31):
Yeah, that's I agree.
And I like that too. I mean, oneof the cool things about this
podcast I've been like, Iwouldn't have picked this up,
but I did. And I'm glad I did. Ithink I'm gonna reborn by him.
Geoff Mair (21:43):
Oh, yeah. I'm gonna read more by Thoreau for sure. I
loved it. I thought it wasgreat. And he's got
Amy Mair (21:48):
huge backlist books to choose from so and Okay, so
you're going to come back in afew months, and we've actually
already selected the book. I'mvery excited to tell him what
the book is.
Geoff Mair (21:59):
Well, it's Jonathan Franzen's best next book. And
Jonathan Franzen is probably myfavorite author. The Corrections
is one of my favorite books.
Amy Mair (22:06):
So I think the books Crossroads by Jonathan Franzen I
think that's what it's called.
And yes, so we both we both loveJonathan Franzen and he doesn't
come out with books that often.
So it's kind of a big deal. And,and then we're also going to
touch on. He writes in a genrethat some people call historical
realism, and there's anotherauthor that you really like,
(22:27):
tigers. I thought it was DavidFoster Wallace. Foster Wallace.
I love Yeah, we could talk aboutothers too. But and he, which
book are you gonna talk aboutwith David Foster Wallace? It
was like, not just I don't know.
Anyway, it'll be a book by him.
Geoff Mair (22:48):
It's Called The
Amy Mair (22:49):
Oh, The Broom of the System by David Foster Wallace.
don't think it's gonna be a crwd pleaser. But Geoff is conv
ncing me that it has itsmerit. Yeah. Well, okay. Infin
te Jest for those who do or don'know, is kind of talked abou
a lot. It's a book that it's sen as a very intellectual book
but who's actually read it? Idon't know. And it's the size of
(23:14):
a doorstop. And he is an amazingwriter, but who actually has re
d that book? If you ever hae you read you ever read Infin
te Jest? I actually have it ahome. I don't even know why I
ave it. But I don't plan on readng anytime soon. So it's pret
y challenging. Oh, yeah. Its it's known as a really chall
nging, but anyway, okay. So thans so much. And I'll talk to
(23:35):
ou later. Awesome. Okay, bye.
Thanks so much, to Jeff, for coing back on the podcast. And I
anted to invite you back on Noember 12. We're going to talk
o my friend David Gates, aboufantasy fiction. And we read a
(23:56):
book. And actually, both of usdidn't like it. It's the f
rst kind of not positive reiew that I'm going to be giving.
But I think part of it's my faut, and I'll explain more in w
en we talk about it. The book icalled The Kingdom's by Nata
ha Pulley. And one of the thigs that I did, I ended up listen
(24:18):
ng to it on audio, and it was to complicated to do that.
o I'll get more into that leonade again. So thanks so mu
h for listening, a
It's actually an epic, epic.
Amy Mair (00:01):
It's an epic. It's an epic, and
Geoff Mair (00:03):
it's actually written in epic form.
Amy Mair (00:05):
Oh, what's that the form?
Geoff Mair (00:07):
epic form means you sort of start the story towards
the end of this story, then yougo back in time, and you tell
the history of how you got tothat point, and then you tell
the end of the story. That'sepic form. And it's written in
epic form.
Amy Mair (00:22):
Did you know that or did you look that up?
Geoff Mair (00:24):
No, I knew that. Oh, my God as I was reading it. Oh,
Amy Mair (00:27):
I'm impressed.
(00:57):
Hello, welcome back to the redFern book review. I am your
host, Amy Mair. And stay. I'msitting in my PJs, hanging out
with my husband, Geoff, who'sagreed to come back for his
second visit.
Geoff Mair (01:13):
Thanks for having me back on me, super excited to be
here.
Amy Mair (01:16):
So today, we're going to talk about two books. The
first is Under the Wave atWaimea by Paul Theroux. And the
second book is The Final Revivalof Opal and Nev by Dawnie
Walton. But before we get intothose books, we're going to talk
(01:38):
about a show that Geoff reallylikes. So Geoff, why don't you
tell us about the show thatyou've been watching that you
really like?
Geoff Mair (01:46):
Well, before I get into the show, I get to tell a
little story. So when I was ingrade, eight, I had surfing
posters all over my wall. I gavemyself the nickname surf. I was
surf obsessed. I went throughbowls, or like, I even like, put
senan in my hair and tried tolook like a surfer. And I've
(02:09):
always loved surf culture, andlike there's something about
surfing that I find like justsuper, super cool. So
Amy Mair (02:16):
wait, hold on. I just had a memory when I first met
you, you have a scar on yourleg? I did. I asked you what
that was from and I still noteven sure that I know. But you
told me it was a Did you tell meI was a shark bite from surfing?
No,
Geoff Mair (02:32):
it is a surf injury.
It was from surfing in Australiaon a board I should never have
my buddies bought like a reallyshort board and we were on a
rugby tour in Australia. And Iwent surfing on it and I wasn't
good enough. And it cut my legopen.
Amy Mair (02:46):
Oh, so it wasn't actually a cool story. I don't
think you told me that the waythat story that way, though.
When I met you, I feel like youhad some like a quest or journey
to like, impress me. I don'tknow. Anyway. Okay, so back to
the posters in your room.
Geoff Mair (02:59):
Yeah, so I've been surf obsessed, like lots of my
life. And I still have some ofthat in me. And I love love to
serve whenever I get theopportunity. And I love like
watching big wave surfing like Ilove watching surfing on on
television. I think it's amazingto watch and live obviously. So
(03:20):
the 100 Foot Wave is the storyof Nazare and surfing the
biggest wave in the world andthe people who basically figured
out how to surf it. And it'sjust it's an amazing
documentary. It's so fun. Andit's just so rich the colors and
watching the surfing and youknow, watching these guys figure
(03:44):
out how to how to surf the waveand just the whole drama around
it is really, really fun. Andit's watching surfing and nazare
is just amazing because it is atruly massive wave.
Amy Mair (03:57):
This is the shows on HBO for those that want to watch
it and it stars it's GarrettMcNamara that's the guy's name.
And the thing I'd also say aboutthis is there's not a lot of
shows that you and I actuallylike and I haven't watched all
of it but I enjoyed watching itwith you. And I also think teens
might like watching it withtheir parents and probably you
(04:19):
know it's kind of hard to findsomething we all want to watch.
Geoff Mair (04:23):
it's it's it's also just a really interesting sort
of character depiction ofGarrett McNamara it follows his
entire career. And he is a veryvery driven very like highly
motivated surfer. It's justreally interesting to watch him
you know struggle with his ageand everything else. It's it's
(04:44):
about more than surfing but it'sYeah, it's a really great
Amy Mair (04:47):
and his wife isn't on it like she's helping him and
he's risking his life like
Geoff Mair (04:53):
she's his spotter.
She's, she's his teammates, youknow, and big wave surfing is a
team sport. And she's his primeteam.
Amy Mair (05:01):
And do they have children? Right?
Geoff Mair (05:03):
They have children?
Yes,
Amy Mair (05:04):
I can't. How many do they do? You know,
Geoff Mair (05:07):
I think two or three, I just had their little
kids. And it's like the, it isby far the most dangerous sport
in the world. These guys are,you know, they get humbled by
these waves, and they're justdragged under the water for
minutes at a time. It's quitefascinating.
Amy Mair (05:23):
So let's let's talk about the book because this is a
segue into the first book. And Iactually feel like Garrett, in
some form or another appears inthis book or some of the
potential events, but this isactually in the book. Oh, he's
actually named in the book. Oh,is he okay? Okay, so this book
is called Under the Wave atWaimea by Paul Theroux. And what
(05:46):
it's about, it's aboutprofessional Hawaiian surfer
named Joe Sharkey. And he's 62years old. And he's completely
Well, he's washed up and he'sgot issues. But the old guard or
even new people just worshipHim, He there's a whole legend
around him. And then otherpeople just sort of see him as
(06:08):
kind of sad. It's kind of andhe's grappling with things. And
what happens is he is involvedin a terrible accident and
accidentally kill someone. Andso this book is about how his
life kind of unravels or unfoldafter that event. And so, but
before we talk about the books,and we'll throw this over to
(06:29):
Geoff. I wanted to talk a littlebit about Paul Theroux himself.
So he is eight years old, he'swritten 52 books. And he has won
so many awards that I'm just noteven gonna list them here. But I
think this is about you don'tknow this stuff. He's actually
(06:50):
even more known for his travelwriting, than he is for his
novels. And he's the author of abook that I've heard of, but
don't know. And it's called theGreat Railway Bazaar. He wrote
the Mosquito Coast, which waspopular movie with Harrison Ford
years ago. And it's been remadeinto a show on Apple with his
(07:11):
nephew, Justin throw.
Geoff Mair (07:13):
Great show, by the way. Very, very fun. Very well
done.
Amy Mair (07:17):
you recommend that. So but a little bit about his
background, after he finishedcollege in the early 60s, he
joined the Peace Corps, and wasone of the first groups in the
Peace Corps. It was brand new atthe time, and he ended up and
Malawi. And he got superpolitical and ended up helping a
(07:37):
political opponent of the PrimeMinister escape to Uganda, and
he was expelled from the PeaceCorps spell from Malawi. And he
went on to have a veryinteresting political and
writing life. He lived all overthe world, I think it kind of
lived maybe the life that when Ifirst met you, you thought you
might live that kind of just,yeah, like, you travel around
Geoff Mair (07:59):
and have adventures.
I mean, that's what all of hisbooks are about. They're kind of
like, you know, I'm gonna go dointeresting things and see the
world and, you know, not worryabout money and and the things
that most people worry about.
That's the types of books hewrites.
Amy Mair (08:17):
Yeah. So he's had this amazing career. And this book is
set in Hawaii, where he actuallyhas lived off and on. He was he
spends about half his time inHawaii. And he's lived there for
30 years. And so I think thatreally, that's one of the
reasons I actually haven't readany of his other books, but it's
just seems so realistic. So I'mgoing to throw it over to you,
Geoff, and what would you thinkabout this book?
Geoff Mair (08:39):
Well, I've never read any thorough before and I
just loved his descriptions ofthings. He is a journeyman
writer. And I just love readinghis, you know, sort of very deep
descriptions of what life inHawaii is like, and even like,
what the foliage is like he, hegets into really, really minute
(08:59):
detail. And he really brings theworld to life through that. I
thought it was a veryinteresting book, because in the
beginning, it's all aboutsurfing and this character
Sharky sort of amazing surfingcareer. And, you know, sort of,
I'd say, 15% of the way into thebook, I'm like, okay, is this
(09:23):
all there is like he's like, Ilove surfing. I could talk about
surfing all day long. But, youknow, it kind of got a little
bit repetitive and I'm like,okay, that's this great surfer
fantastic. And then he has thiscrisis, where his life kind of
unfolds. And you see who thereal shark he is. And he kind of
(09:44):
figures out who he is. It'sreally about this very immature,
mature individual figuring outwho he is and going through
maturing at a very late stage inhis life in a very difficult
way. And it's lovely Just a it'sa beautiful story like I think
it's really really well writtenand fun and, and, and also just
(10:08):
quite heart heartwarming.
Amy Mair (10:10):
That's interesting.
That's that's a good point he'sforced into evolving like he's
he would rather not
Geoff Mair (10:16):
he would prefer not to, he'd love to just kind of go
off into the sunset as the greatSharkey surfer, and have lived
his life for surfing. But herealizes later in his life that
he actually can't like he justcan't do it. He has to build
some connections to other peopleand have relationships and
(10:36):
things that he just has neverhad to do throughout his life.
Amy Mair (10:39):
You know, one thing I thought about this book, it
makes it in a way old fashion.
And it's just kind ofinteresting. is okay. Most of
the book, you know, there mightbe other writers that can kind
of do what he does, but is asaga, or it's a it's just goes.
It's actually
Geoff Mair (10:58):
an epic, epic.
Amy Mair (10:59):
It's an epic.
Geoff Mair (11:00):
It's an epic, and it's actually written in epic
form.
Amy Mair (11:03):
Oh, what's that the form?
Geoff Mair (11:05):
epic form means you sort of start the story towards
the end of this story, then yougo back in time, and you tell
the history of how you got tothat point, and then you tell
the end of the story. That'sepic form. And it's written in
epic form.
Amy Mair (11:20):
Did you know that? Or did you look that up? No, I
Geoff Mair (11:22):
knew that. Oh, good as I was reading it, oh,
Amy Mair (11:24):
I'm impressed. So I think the thing that I thought
the middle part of the book, he,they flashback to his life, and
they go into every detail aboutevery bad thing and good thing
and anything that's everhappened to him from his
childhood. And that's kind ofrare now to like, go that into
(11:46):
that detail. But it really madefor a rich novel throw
Geoff Mair (11:51):
goes into great detail. Yeah, such an
experienced writer. I've neverread a book where they go into
this much detail, and you're notbored by it. No, really
everything. It's so rich.
Amy Mair (12:01):
Yeah. You know, but okay, the other thing we do have
to talk about is, is women inthis book, it I really was
conflicted. I I really likedthis book, too. But women are
not presented very well, in thisbook. Do you have thoughts on
that? And what are your What areyou?
Geoff Mair (12:19):
Yeah, I think he's kind of a bit of a misogynist,
at the beginning of the book.
But by the end of the book, he'snot so much. And so I had
struggles with how women weredepicted in the book as well.
But I think by the end of it, itkind of is essentially arguing
that that's not a good stance,like misogyny is not a it's not
(12:41):
a healthy way to live your life.
That's essentially the theme ofthe book. So you
Amy Mair (12:48):
felt you felt that that was addressed. I felt like
Geoff Mair (12:51):
it was, you know, his lifestyle and kind of how he
treated women. And his, it justkind of all blew up on him, too.
I don't think it was seen aspositive by the end of the book.
Amy Mair (13:05):
And then also, Hunter S. Thompson makes a lengthy
appearance in this book, andwhich I thought you'd probably
use to talk to me about him, andwhat do you think about that?
Geoff Mair (13:17):
I thought it was actually great. I mean, Sharkey
is living every man's kind ofdream of what they think they'd
like to live their life like andHunter S. Thompson is an
individual who's at the extremeof how every man would lead to
live their life. Yeah. And so itbrings these two characters
(13:38):
together in a way that, youknow, kind of almost seems real,
like it seems quite natural andactually seems like they might
be people who would have beenfriends, you know, in reality,
so if it worked, I thought,
Amy Mair (13:50):
so Paul actually knew Hunter S. Thompson. And
apparently he's known for doingthis he'll he'll weave in real
people, family, friends, famouspeople into his books. And
sometimes he gets in trouble forit, because it's fiction. So
like, there's an example wherehe had someone go to a dinner
party and say something theyshouldn't have said, but it was
all fictionalized. And so that'skind of a hallmark of something
(14:13):
that he does. And do you doanything else you want to talk
about with this book? Are weokay, I
Geoff Mair (14:19):
thought it was excellent. Okay. Really fun. And
no, I don't have any,
Amy Mair (14:23):
I think. Yeah, I think it was great. So okay, so let's
go on to the next book. AndGeoff read this book. And the
book is called The Final Revivalof Opal and Nev by Dawnie
Walton. And what do you have tosay about this book?
Geoff Mair (14:41):
So this book is about Opal Jewel and Nev
Campbell, who are a rock androll duo in the 1970s. And oval
jewel is kind of like a GraceJonesish character, I would say
and Nev, Campbell is like maybea poppier David Bowie. And
(15:02):
there, the story is all about,you know, their, the history of
kind of their, their rocket tostart in the 1970s. And, and
about how they took off. Thething I like the most about this
book is the device of the wayit's written. So it's all it the
(15:29):
whole entire book is told fromthe voice of Sonny Curtis, who
is a journalist for oralmagazine, an oral magazine is a
oral history of rock and roll.
And so the whole story is toldas an oral history of Oberlin,
Nev. And it's written as thoughit were, you know, in this
(15:50):
magazine. And
Amy Mair (15:55):
so it's written like a magazine article.
Geoff Mair (15:58):
It's written like an oral history. And, and the
magazine is actually an oralhistory. So it is actually
written as though it were themagazine, but the magazine is an
oral history magazine. So andwhen you I listened to it on
Audible, which was a really neatexperience, it actually took a
little while to get used tobecause it's an oral history.
(16:19):
And they have different peopletelling different parts of the
story, and actually saying thevoices of the people. So it's
not like being told a story.
It's like listening to realpeople telling their own oral
history. And so that device wasreally neat. Like, I found it.
super
Amy Mair (16:38):
interesting. Just think like you're listening to a
documentary. It's like you'relistening to a documentary,
Geoff Mair (16:43):
but it's not a documentary, because it's
fictional. And so it took awhile to get used to listening
to it, because it's not likelistening to a regular story.
But once I got used to listeningto it, I actually loved that
whole. Yeah, that device,because it made it seem so real.
And so you know, the things thatI loved about this book, it
(17:06):
gives a very, very sort of richdepiction of what the rock and
roll scene was like in the1970s. It's very detailed, and,
and just fine. And there's lotsof sort of crazy characters
around and lots of drama, youknow, behind stage at these rock
and roll shows. And yeah, Imean, that was very fun. And the
(17:30):
characters are very believable.
And, yeah, just the wholedepiction of the rock scene was
quite, quite interesting andfelt very real as I was
listening to it. I liked thecharacters a lot. But I found,
you know, the book got a littlerepetitive. Towards the end, it
(17:53):
focuses very heavily on thethemes of gender and race
inequality. And I thought it dida really good job of depicting
what those issues were like inthe 1970s. It was clearly, you
know, much worse than it is now.
But it's thanks. But it's, youknow, but I felt like by the end
(18:14):
of the book, and got veryrepetitive, and I was getting a
beat bit beaten over the headwith those themes. And so I
started to lose steam on ittowards the end of it, even
though it's a super good, Ienjoyed
Amy Mair (18:26):
it a lot. Is it a long book?
Geoff Mair (18:29):
It's, I'd say it's average, it's an average length
book. But yeah.
Amy Mair (18:34):
And then what about how would you compare this to
Daisy and the Six because that'swhat they're saying.
Geoff Mair (18:38):
And the six is much more fun. Like, I love rock and
roll, you know, novels, I thinkthey're super fun. Like, I just
love, you know, the combinationof music and literature. And
Daisy and the Six is just waymore fun. Like, it's way more,
it's later and kind of open devcan be a little bit dark. I
(19:02):
think it's it's, you know,opals, a very conflicted and
challenging character, and she'scares very much about right and
wrong. And so that, you know,comes out in how I feel about
the book because it's just, it'sa little bit dark. Daisy and the
Six was a lot more light andfun.
Amy Mair (19:22):
Daisy and the Six was an escape. Yeah,
Geoff Mair (19:24):
this is not an escape that
Amy Mair (19:27):
sounds like a clever literary devices used to and
also to talk about importantissues.
Geoff Mair (19:34):
Yeah, very important issues. But it's a lot more
heavy handed than something likeDaisy and the Six for sure.
Amy Mair (19:40):
Do you think this would be good? I read that this
is one of the top kind of audiobooks to listen to right now.
Would you think it would be justas good to read it?
Geoff Mair (19:51):
I would read it I would listen to it. Because I
thought the audio bookexperience with this. You know,
I think there's some books thatare really good as audio books
and other books. That are betterto be read. I've learned I've
learned that there is an audiobook because of the whole
experience of hearing different,
Amy Mair (20:06):
it different actors, because that's unusual because
usually when you listen toaudiobooks, they hire like I'm
listening to one right now I'mreading Great Circle by Maggie
Shipstead, which has beenshortlisted for the National
Book Award, but it's one personand she can do a British accent,
she can do children, and that'show most of them are.
Geoff Mair (20:27):
This one they're using probably, I'd say, four or
five, oh, speakers, okay. Andthey will do slightly different
voices, you can tell it's thesame person, but you know, but
the different. The differentcharacter voices lends itself
very well to the whole oralhistory part. And so it feels
very real when you're listeningto it. I'm not sure it would
(20:49):
have the same richness if youwere reading it as listening to
it.
Amy Mair (20:55):
Okay, well, that sounds good. And do we know
anything about Dawnie Walton?
I'm just looking her up rightnow. I should we should know. We
should have known thisbeforehand. I'm curious if this
is her first book. It is.
Geoff Mair (21:05):
It's her debut book.
Amy Mair (21:06):
She received her MFA from the Iowa Writers Workshop.
And holds a journalism degreefrom Florida A&M. And she's
young. And so this is her firstbook. Yeah. Oh, cool. Okay.
Anyway, so. Anything else youwant to say? No. Okay. I
Geoff Mair (21:25):
enjoyed both books.
I certainly like them to thewave. A lot. I thought it was a
great, super fun ride.
Amy Mair (21:31):
Yeah, that's I agree.
And I like that too. I mean, oneof the cool things about this
podcast I've been like, Iwouldn't have picked this up,
but I did. And I'm glad I did. Ithink I'm gonna reborn by him.
Geoff Mair (21:43):
Oh, yeah. I'm gonna read more by Thoreau for sure. I
loved it. I thought it wasgreat. And he's got
Amy Mair (21:48):
huge backlist books to choose from so and Okay, so
you're going to come back in afew months, and we've actually
already selected the book. I'mvery excited to tell him what
the book is.
Geoff Mair (21:59):
Well, it's Jonathan Franzen's best next book. And
Jonathan Franzen is probably myfavorite author. The Corrections
is one of my favorite books.
Amy Mair (22:06):
So I think the books Crossroads by Jonathan Franzen I
think that's what it's called.
And yes, so we both we both loveJonathan Franzen and he doesn't
come out with books that often.
So it's kind of a big deal. And,and then we're also going to
touch on. He writes in a genrethat some people call historical
realism, and there's anotherauthor that you really like,
(22:27):
tigers. I thought it was DavidFoster Wallace. Foster Wallace.
I love Yeah, we could talk aboutothers too. But and he, which
book are you gonna talk aboutwith David Foster Wallace? It
was like, not just I don't know.
Anyway, it'll be a book by him.
Geoff Mair (22:48):
It's Called The
Amy Mair (22:49):
Oh, The Broom of the System by David Foster Wallace.
don't think it's gonna be a crwd pleaser. But Geoff is conv
ncing me that it has itsmerit. Yeah. Well, okay. Infin
te Jest for those who do or don'know, is kind of talked abou
a lot. It's a book that it's sen as a very intellectual book
but who's actually read it? Idon't know. And it's the size of
(23:14):
a doorstop. And he is an amazingwriter, but who actually has re
d that book? If you ever hae you read you ever read Infin
te Jest? I actually have it ahome. I don't even know why I
ave it. But I don't plan on readng anytime soon. So it's pret
y challenging. Oh, yeah. Its it's known as a really chall
nging, but anyway, okay. So thans so much. And I'll talk to
(23:35):
ou later. Awesome. Okay, bye.
Thanks so much, to Jeff, for coing back on the podcast. And I
anted to invite you back on Noember 12. We're going to talk
o my friend David Gates, aboufantasy fiction. And we read a
(23:56):
book. And actually, both of usdidn't like it. It's the f
rst kind of not positive reiew that I'm going to be giving.
But I think part of it's my faut, and I'll explain more in w
en we talk about it. The book icalled The Kingdom's by Nata
ha Pulley. And one of the thigs that I did, I ended up listen
(24:18):
ng to it on audio, and it was to complicated to do that.
o I'll get more into that leonade again. So thanks so mu
h for listening, a
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