January 28, 2025 • 58 mins
In this episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, Scott and Uncle Dave continue their discussion on Why Do I Choose to Stay?—exploring the foundation of faith in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. They dive into the power of scripture, the testimonies of prophets and apostles, and the role of the Holy Ghost in strengthening our belief. Through personal experiences, doctrinal insights, and a focus on the Book of Mormon and Doctrine & Covenants, they discuss how we can deepen our commitment to Christ and remember sacred experiences that anchor us to Him. Join the conversation as they reflect on what it means to focus on the Savior and His redeeming power in our lives.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey there everybody welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
(00:20):
Scott Durfey here as always joined by Uncle Dave.
What's up Dave?
I'm good Scott.
How are you doing?
Good.
We're kind of in our flannels.
It's a chilly day today.
Oh, you got your...
Yeah, I got my flannel on.
It's trying to stay warm.
It's stuck here in your basement.
Down here.
(00:41):
I think there's...
I don't see any heating vents in this room.
There aren't any.
This was supposed to be a cold storage room when it was first built.
So I have this little campfire built for Dave in front of him here by way of a oil heater.
I hope people appreciate the sacrifice.
You poor thing.
We do have a heater here though.
Yeah, I'm really sad for you.
(01:02):
We've got this nice portable heater.
Yeah, we're all good.
Hope everybody's staying warm.
Today is a special...
Well, kind of a weird special day.
Deb sent me this text today.
She says, who knew that it was Happy Squirrel Appreciation Day?
There's a day for everything.
Happy Squirrel.
(01:23):
Well, that's what she said.
Who knew that there was a Happy Squirrel Appreciation Day?
What about the sad squirrel?
They need to change their attitude apparently.
They're not going to have a...
What about the squirrels that are depressed?
They're not...
Well, yeah, I don't want to cash judgment on those poor souls.
The mean squirrels.
I have some for...
Yeah.
I have a friend, you know Richard Hawks.
(01:44):
Yeah.
Or a man who's got some...
Yeah, he's my neighbor kind of here.
He's moved though.
You know, he's in Stanford.
What?
He's the Institute Director at Stanford.
Anyway, yeah, he's got...
Stanford University.
Yeah.
University of Stanford.
Yeah, they moved to California.
When?
This last summer.
(02:06):
Anyway, he's always claiming squirrels attacked him on his mission and he's always got stories
about that.
I never believed them though.
You know.
I've never seen a mean squirrel but he claims they exist.
Well, we could go down that rabbit hole, I think, as best that we don't.
(02:28):
So...
Yeah, happy squirrel day.
Yeah, yeah.
Who knew?
Who knew?
I remember several months ago you taught us that all fruit loops taste the same.
Yeah.
You know, every once in a while we get some really important information.
I was thinking about that this morning when I ate my fruit loops.
For you?
Yeah.
We ate your fruit loops.
Yeah.
Kind of, kind of, it still takes me off.
I'm not sure if breakfast is a champion's.
(02:50):
Well, here we are.
Last week we continued and this week we will as well down the vein of why do I decide to
stay?
I think that's how we...
Yeah, why do I believe?
Why do I believe?
Why do I choose to believe?
Why do I choose to believe?
Why do I stay?
Yeah, exactly.
In the restored gospel.
(03:10):
And we have a little outline that David has primarily worked on.
We've done some of it together, but David has primarily worked on this little outline.
It's been a great outline.
I think that we kind of referenced this fact last week and I'll just bring it up again
today that there's been a lot of reasons that Dave and myself, maybe all of us sometimes
(03:34):
put into consideration the things that we've been talking about here.
One of those was that we both know and David in particular because of his leadership positions
in the church has been sought out a lot by various people in the church and because of
Dave's demeanor and his kindness and all of that.
(03:55):
People feel safe to come to him and feel like that without judgment or ridicule that they
can pose some questions that are sometimes hard and that sometimes create questions within
us and maybe even a little instability in terms of our commitment to living our country.
Covenants or focusing on and honoring our conversion stories, etc.
(04:20):
So anyway, we have this little outline that we've been working on.
This will be the third of I don't know how many, four, probably at least maybe five episodes
where we dwell on this.
And last week, we kind of wrapped it up.
Dave shared a really tender and personal story.
And to him for doing that about how he had heard President Kimball in a priesthood session
(04:47):
many years ago.
He's sat by himself at the top of the Marriott Center.
He's first he said he was alone and we knew that wasn't true.
There's probably 10,000 maybe more people there.
But you know me and I kind of went up to the rafters.
I was up on the student bench seats while everybody was sitting in the chair seats on
(05:07):
the other side and I was I kind of had half of the bleachers to myself over there.
Kind of right up there where my season basketball tickets were.
Probably.
Yeah.
Well anyway, Dave, why don't you just kind of recap that story for us.
And that's not the only time Scott that I've had that experience with prophets.
(05:30):
You know, there have been others who I have heard bear their witness and their special
witness and that I've known by the Holy Ghost that they they not only know he lives.
President Packer said this, right?
He said I not only know that Jesus lives, but I know Jesus.
(05:52):
And it doesn't necessarily mean he saw I am or any of that.
I understand that.
I don't think you have to see him to be a special witness.
However, Joseph F Smith, when talking about what is an apostle, and I'm sorry, I don't
have this quote pulled up.
It just came into my mind.
But Joseph, Joseph, President Joseph F Smith said to be an apostle, you have to be a special
(06:18):
witness and I and ear witness, he said, of the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Something to that effect.
I know he said I and ear witness of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Well, when I was at the empty sea as a branch president some 30 years ago now, Scott, elder
(06:49):
David B. Hate came to do it emotional and elder Hate had been really sick and I think
and had some hard issues or can't remember what his health issues were, but he'd been
really sick.
And anyway, but he came to the empty sea and he he was getting really old and he really
(07:10):
bore a powerful witness of Jesus Christ that I'll never forget and and anyone that was
there, I don't think could forget.
Anyway, it was something like this.
He talked about when he was called to be an apostle that he was in the room in the Salt
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Lake Temple where the first presidency in the corner 12 have their meetings, you know,
where where they were they meet and where they meet in a prayer circle and where they
pray.
And he said that after the meeting was over, the last thing on the agenda, President Kimball
was presiding and the last thing on the agenda was to set apart David B. Hate.
(07:57):
And so he said after he was set apart as the newest apostle in the Church of Jesus Christ,
Latter-day Saints, they had a closing prayer and President Kimball said to David B. Hate,
turn to him and said, now, now David, this room is available for the rest of the day.
(08:23):
And I'd like you to just stay here until you receive your special witness.
And elder Hates telling the missionaries this at the empty sea.
And he said, so they all left me in the room alone.
And he said, I didn't know what to do, but I knelt down and said a prayer.
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And then he said, I stood up and I as I looked around the room, I saw these pictures of the
Savior.
Then he said, so I started at one picture.
And I stood there and I looked at the picture and thought about my Savior.
And he said, I did that to each one of these pictures that were in the room.
(09:08):
And I went all the way around the room.
And then, you know, he got kind of slow and quiet.
And I'll never forget this moment in my life, when I was feeling the spirit like I was in
that moment.
And he said, after a long pause, I can't tell you everything.
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But when I left that room, I was a special witness.
That was so impactful on me as a branch president at the missionary training center.
And you could have hit her to pin drop at that large auditorium.
(10:01):
And it was really, really unforgettable.
Anyway, I've heard other testimonies like that, Scott.
I've been in some pretty personal meetings with some of the brethren, when I was very
a director of some of these institutes.
There would be 44 directors from all over the world who would meet with a few other administrators
(10:27):
and an apostle and hear their witness and their testimony.
And one of the most sacred in our family is when we met with Albert Anderson, when after
helping him write, helping him with the book, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness, and he wanted
to have a pizza party with my family.
(10:49):
And we get on these after we eat pizza and we go to his office and he shows us around
the administration building.
He got in some golf carts and we go in the tunnels and we ended up at the old Tabernacle.
And there's a room in the back of the pipes of the old Tabernacle.
(11:10):
And he talked about the sacred nature of that room, that that's where he had been called.
And that's kind of where the first presence he actually would hang out before the conference
center.
And there was a bathroom and a little kitchen and all of that in this little small but nice
(11:33):
little apartment in the back.
It's not really an apartment, but it's got everything that the first presence he would
need.
And he talked about this where I was called and he began to bear testimony of his special
witness to my children and my grandchildren, which I hope that they will never forget.
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I know it impacted like any testimony, it impacts some or the others.
I remember that about a month after that meeting I asked my family and a little family home
evening what they remembered about or what they liked the most, I think was my question.
What did you like the most about our experience with Elder Anderson?
(12:21):
A prophet Syrian revelator.
And we kind of went around all the family, even the little children and a lot of them
talked about the golf carts of course.
But I remember my granddaughter who was at the time like, this is Sierra who's on a mission
right now.
This was when she was about 15 years old when this happened.
(12:44):
And she said when it was her turn, she said, grandpa, you know, I've had some doubts.
I've had some doubts about the church.
But when Elder Anderson bore his testimony about Jesus Christ, I don't have any more
doubts.
(13:05):
You know, I didn't necessarily have the same doubts that Sierra might have been having.
But I know my testimony was stronger, the prophets, the revelators and the restoration
(13:26):
of the gospel because of Elder Anderson's witness.
Anyway, I've, I've, I'm old Scott been around and I just, I know that the apostles and the
prophets are not perfect and they're not infallible.
But I know that they know and I know that they're honest and I know that they know Jesus Christ
(13:51):
and that they have keys that have been given to them by heavenly messengers through the
prophet Joseph Smith and others.
And those keys are well and alive on the earth today and very active in helping all of us
to gain a closer relationship with, with Jesus Christ if we will follow their, their, their
(14:18):
teachings and their counsel.
That, that experience that you just shared about your family with Elder Anderson and him
sharing his witness and all of that.
I think, first off, we don't have to have an experience with an apostle in order to have
those kinds of.
So good.
You know, so that's, that's important.
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Number one, because Heavenly Father is no respecter of persons.
He's going to allow me to have that experience even if I'm not privileged enough to be in
a situation that would place me in that situation.
So that's, that's the first thing.
The second thing is, is that I believe a lot of us have those experiences, maybe not, you
know, hearing others and feeling that.
(15:02):
And I know certainly I have, I had a similar experience, you know, with President Kimball
when I was on my mission, just, I didn't meet him, but I saw him and the spirit bore witness
undeniably to me that was on my mission.
Okay.
And so that was great.
But apparently it wasn't enough, you know, because after my mission, you know, I, I,
(15:26):
I chose to go down the wrong road again, even though I had had that experience and looking
back and you know, and even as I was going down that wrong road, Dave, I would, I would
never and could never deny that I had had that experience.
My, I was, I was making a full decision.
This I, I wasn't, I wasn't saying I don't believe it.
I wasn't saying I didn't have those experience.
(15:46):
I wasn't saying anything.
So the question then becomes, the question then becomes, okay, so we have these experiences,
but how do we make them matter?
Not just in the moment, but for the rest of our lives.
And I think that that's again, getting back to maybe one of the many reasons that we have
felt like it's important that maybe we share some of this stuff.
(16:06):
Well, I know there's a difference between not forgetting an experience and remembering
an experience.
Right.
Yeah.
And you don't expound on that.
Well, even though you would never forget having that experience, you didn't recall it.
I chose not to.
You didn't want to remember.
(16:26):
There you go.
You didn't want to focus on it.
That's honest.
You didn't want to.
That's right.
I wanted to deny it actually.
Yeah, absolutely.
A convenience.
Yeah.
Because if it's true, then you're, then you're even more guilty.
And so it's just better to just push it out of your mind and try to forget it and forgetting
(16:47):
it is different than not remembering it.
So I, that's why I love in the, uh, right in Helaman, remember, remember, remember,
present Kimball saying the most important word in the book of Mormon is remember, you
know, remember, remember my sons, you know, Helaman five, 12.
(17:08):
And that I think we're members in there like five times that chapter.
But I, so, so remembering is really key.
Focusing on it is, is really key, you know, but, but Scott, if we, if we stop saying our
prayers, if we, if we stop listening to general conference, if we stop reading the scriptures,
if we stop our going to church, if we stop, okay, we forget.
(17:32):
Okay.
And you have just brought it up.
So, so what this really boils down then to, to, uh, to for me and for, I think the rest
of us too is where's not just our remembering, but where's our focus?
Cause that focus is what brings us to those rememberings, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Remembering and focusing are very much synonymous with me as I, as I think about it and think
(17:56):
about that.
Yeah.
I think you're right.
I love that.
So, um, yeah, people, because of their choices, because of their actions, because, because
of things that happen to them that aren't necessarily even their own fault too.
Yeah.
You know, being acted upon the, the reality is we are acted upon by Satan and sinners and
(18:18):
others.
And, uh, sometimes that can put a real cloud over our remembrance and causes us to forget.
So anyway, uh, I know that's true Scott, but, but, uh, we are, we are so blessed to be able
to have witnesses of apostles, prophets, seers and revelators that I didn't bring this up
(18:42):
last week, but you know, we've been in so many church history sites where we've stood
where the prophet bore witness, where we stood where the prophet saw the father and the son
were, uh, and, and in that case, I'm thinking actually the new K Whitney store, the upper
room, the school of the prophets.
Yeah.
For that.
(19:03):
Anyway, we've, we've been in the Kirtland temple.
We've, we've been in some of these really sacred places and we've stood on holy ground
at a Monday on and Susquehanna and all of those where I have felt the spirit bear witness
to my spirit that this is sacred ground and sacred things happened here and sacred things
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will happen here.
You know, the site of the temple and independence and the new Jerusalem and Jesus Christ coming
back where Adam and Eve, uh, blessed, blessed there, gave their last blessings to their family.
And anyway, Scott, we've been, you and I have been so blessed.
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My family's been so blessed that have had so many of these experiences, but I know that
they're real and, um, I don't know why I've, I was telling my heavenly father last night.
I don't know why I've been blessed to be able to have the gospel of Jesus Christ in my life
when so many don't, but I'm thankful for whatever I did in the premortal existence and whatever
(20:12):
I've done here, which I know is not enough to be able to be blessed by all of these things.
Anyway, so that's, uh, we've talked to, uh, maybe we should just outline again.
I've divided the reason, I believe in the reason I stay into two or three parts.
(20:32):
One is, uh, evidences and witnesses.
And we've talked about the Holy Ghost.
We've talked about teaching and testimony and experiences of others.
And now I want to talk just a little bit about scriptures.
I really think the scriptures, Scott, is, uh, provides us with evidence, not just a witness,
(20:53):
but evidence that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is real, that it's true, and that the
very foundation or keystone, however you want to think of it is the Book of Mormon.
You know, the Book of Mormon, to me, every time I feel that maybe paraphrasing President
(21:15):
Kimball, whenever the distance between me and God seems to get further and further apart,
I read the Book of Mormon and that gap closes in a hurry as I immerse myself in the word
of the Lord in the Book of Mormon.
And, uh, I don't know how many hundreds of times that's happened in my life.
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And, uh, every time it does, I, I can testify of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon
because of the Holy Ghost, which I feel when, when I read it.
So the Book of Mormon is an amazing, I think, evidence and testimony, witness of the restoration.
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And the origin and the translation of it, you know, the miracle associated with, with
Moroni, I believe there was an angel, literally an angel.
This wasn't the, in fact, we know we're doing come follow me right now.
And, and my wife was reading about Moroni's visit to yesterday.
(22:21):
And I said to her, sweetheart, do you aware that Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith 22 times,
22 times in his lifetime, Moroni in Joseph Smith's lifetime, Moroni appeared to him.
That's, that's amazing.
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When you think about it, Scott, and she said, really?
And I said, well, five times within 24 hours, you know, the first 24 hours he appeared to
Joseph Smith five times, three at a night, once the next day.
And then when he went to El Camorra, anyway, I know Joseph Smith was friends, his, maybe
(23:03):
best friend, his best terrestrial, Celestial, I guess Celestial, since Moroni is trans,
resurrected, not translated, his best Celestial friend and angel was, was Moroni who tutored
him and who interviewed him.
He said he went back for interviews to the Hill Camorra every time and he was, he was
(23:26):
interviewed and he was taught by Moroni.
I mean, I, I don't have to be present when that experience happens to, to know and choose
to believe that.
And the origin and then the translation of it to have done what he did in some say,
(23:48):
90 working days, less than 90 working days.
I think president Nelson, based on his research and historians that he works with, said that
it happened in less than 65 days.
If you, if you just go through the journal and I know doubters can say that Joseph Smith's
journals aren't true and that you can't go by that.
(24:10):
I, I get all that.
But, but if you take care of taking a minute as word, which I choose to do, then he translated
the book in, in about two months, 60 working days over maybe a long period of time, but
to what he actually worked on the book and was translating, wow, to produce 500 pages
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and all of the literary forms and all of the names and all of the places and to have no
contradictions in regards to the storyline and the flow of it through the narrative of
the Book of Mormon throughout the entire 500 and something pages and to, to build the discourses
(24:57):
on doctrine that are in the Book of Mormon, the, the stories, the narrative, the context,
the, I mean, Scott, really the Jewish writing style with the two as most and others, other
literary styles, word, Prince.
I don't know if you know much about word, Prince.
(25:18):
I know that brother Keller, who was a, by the way, a converted pastor of, I think it
was Presbyterian, Presbyterian pastor who joined the church, then came to teach religion
at BYU.
He did a computer study on the Book of Mormon.
(25:38):
He wanted to help his, all his evangelical friends to have something to go by to maybe
build a basis for believing in the Book of Mormon.
And he did, he did a study of word, word prints using computers and identified that based on
how authors use words.
(25:59):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he showed that you can establish a word print like a finger print, like a fingerprint.
And he showed that there are distinctly dozens of authors in the Book of Mormon that it wasn't,
(26:21):
wasn't just Joseph Smith writing it, but there's 24 other men who are writing it, who did over
a thousand words to do, to get 24 authors.
They had to write it over 1000.
Had to have a thousand words sampling in order to identify it.
(26:41):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So word prints and all of the other things in regards to the Book of Mormon and put all
that aside, put all of that aside.
That's what it Book of Mormon teaches us about the plan of redemption and the special truths
(27:02):
that we learn in the Book of Mormon about Jesus Christ and the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
For example, we've talked about this before on this podcast, but there's only, well, the
first place where Joseph Smith learned that Jesus bled from every poor.
You don't read that in the Bible.
I mean, we take as Latter-day Saints, and even for some who have left the church, they
(27:27):
take certain truths to be true and they don't know the source of them.
And they under appreciate what we learn, the unique and special doctrines, points of doctrine
that we learn in the Book of Mormon, such as he, you know, in Mosiah chapter three, let's
(27:55):
just read it.
Scott Mosiah chapter three, verse seven, when he talks about how great the English was of
Jesus Christ and the Atonement and an angel was showing this to King Benjamin, and lo,
he shall suffer temptations and pain of body, hunger, thirst and fatigue, even more than
man can suffer except it be unto death.
(28:15):
For behold, blood cometh from every poor, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness
and the abominations of his people.
I can see Joseph Smith translating that almost gasping.
You know, I think there must have been a pause.
And nobody else believes that from every poor, I mean, not even everybody believes Jesus
(28:44):
blood and Gethsemane at all.
Some do, I know some do, Luke records that his sweat was as it were, like great drops
blotting the ground.
But anyway.
Well, and there's other there's other doctrines, you know, and interestingly enough, there's
(29:05):
a lot of doctrines in the Book of Mormon that we are, I don't know if it's so prevalent
now, but I know when I was on my mission, for example, that there was a wrongful view
that we saw works as being the way that we are saved, right?
And we know from the Book of Mormon that that's just not the case that we don't believe
(29:28):
that we're redeemed.
This is in 2 Nephi 2 verse 3, not at the beginning of the verse, but that we're redeemed because
of the righteousness of thy redeemer.
Yeah, we are not in the book.
Yeah, we hide to Jacob.
Yeah.
I know.
And there but there's some verses in there that the anti Mormons quote from me, they
(29:50):
know they pick out to save by grace after all we can do.
Yeah, but then they fail to go to Alma 23 where it says that all we could do was to
repent of our sins.
So so I know all the anti.
Well, I don't know if claim to know them all.
I hope I don't know them all.
But but all the anti is that picks pick a verse out, you know, here and there.
(30:16):
But Scott, anybody who has read the Book of Mormon with a sincere heart with any intent
to know if it's true or not, yeah, cannot help but draw closer to Jesus Christ, understand
the plan of redemption.
The word plan, by the way, the word plan is not in the Bible.
(30:40):
There's no discussion of the plan of redemption or the plan of salvation in the Bible.
And the word plan, I think is 34 times something like that 34 times in the in the Book of Mormon
and and 14 times.
I know this for sure.
14 times in the Book of Mormon.
It talks about the plan of redemption.
(31:02):
Plan of happiness, great plan of happiness, plan of mercy, plan of God, plan of salvation.
All of it's throughout the Book of Mormon that God has a plan and that Jesus Christ
is the Savior and the Redeemer to carry out and fulfill and be the center of that plan.
(31:22):
And it is taught so plainly, so powerfully in the Book of Mormon, Scott that I, you know,
when it talks about the martyrdom of Joseph Smith and and Hiram Smith, Scott John Taylor,
when he wrote that section, I think it's 134, isn't it in the Doctrine and Covenants?
(31:47):
Yeah.
He says that the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants cost the best blood of the 19th
century.
Well, amen to that.
But what I love is that if Joseph Smith only wrote second Nephi, if if if second Nephi,
(32:14):
chapter two, chapter nine, Alma, chapter five, well, Mosiah, King Benjamin's address, Mosiah,
chapter three, four and five, Alma, well, see there are Jacob chapter five.
I can't leave out the the allegory of the of the of the olive tree.
(32:35):
That's one of my favorite chapters.
There are about a dozen chapters in there that if Joseph Smith only wrote those, it
was worth dying for.
Alma 34 for me, rather Alma seven for me.
Seven 32, 34, five six.
(32:57):
Yeah.
Scott, I am so grateful for the sacrifice that Joseph Smith and others made to make
the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants possible for us.
So I'm really, I'm really thankful for the for the Book of Mormon and what we learned
(33:20):
about the resurrection, the reality and the universal nature of the resurrection.
God, nobody else really understands and knows for sure or believes that everyone's going
to be resurrected and return to the presence of God.
That is so clear in Alma's teachings in Alma chapter 11.
(33:41):
Yep.
And it's so clear in the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon.
I believe Paul taught it in 1 Corinthians 15, right?
I mean, that's how we interpret, but not all churches do.
So it's just so again, points of doctrine that help us to understand our Heavenly Father,
(34:07):
his plan, Jesus Christ and his role as our savior, Redeemer and the Holy Ghost who administers
the plan of salvation and grace and mercy in our lives.
And so many other things.
I mean, the witness of Jesus Christ and his appearance and the 2,500 eyewitnesses that
(34:31):
feel the Prince of the nails in his hands and feet and thrust, not just feel, but thrust
their hand into his side and the 200 years of peace that follow the almost 200 years,
the peace that follow that Scott.
Oh man, the 3rd Nephi 17.
(34:52):
My wife said that's her, her favorite when Christ administers to all the children and
angels appear and, and they're, they're all healed.
And I know that happened.
I know the events in the Book of Mormon are true.
I know there was a Moroni.
I know there was a Mormon.
I know there was a Nephi and a Lehi.
(35:13):
These are not figurative literary figures.
These are real men, real women with real families who have the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And even though they lived the law of Moses, they had the gospel of Jesus Christ.
They had priesthood and temples.
(35:34):
They had all of these things that, that, and who I don't want to get caught up in the DNA
of it or what others have said about the DNA of it or about the whereabouts or the geography.
I don't care about the geography.
None of that stuff really matters to me.
The only thing that matters to me is the doctrine that, that is taught and the examples of those
(36:00):
who lived it or the, or is what really matters to me and how I can liken my life to them
and liken the doctrine in the Book of Mormon to my life.
So that's, that's how I feel.
I know the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God.
(36:21):
And I know it's, it's the word of God.
And I know there's been lots of changes.
Okay.
For all the anties, I know there were, were pronouns and commas and changes and mistakes.
I know it wasn't perfect.
It's still not perfect.
At least that's what I don't believe it's perfect.
Joseph Smith never claimed it was perfect.
(36:42):
He said it's the most correct correct, right?
But I know it's not perfect.
And, and yet the teachings in it are for me and, and I know the Holy Ghost hundreds of
times has borne witness to me of its, of its truthfulness as not only I have studied it
(37:06):
personally, but as I have tried to teach it.
There's a lot in the Book of Mormon too that teaches us about the, the nature and character
of Jesus himself.
Yeah, for sure.
That we don't maybe get other places.
And I just have one example.
I thought of it.
I hadn't planned to bring this up till you mentioned that Chris has been reading in third,
(37:26):
or her favorite part, some of her favorite parts is in 3rd and 5th 17.
This is where one of those, and I'm just going to take a second and cover that because
this is where we really see a glimpse of the character and attributes of the Savior.
In chapter 17 of 3rd Nephi, this starts in verse 9, it came to pass that when he had
(37:49):
thus spoken all the multitude did with one accord go forth with their sick and they're
afflicted in their lame.
So they're bringing them to Jesus.
Jesus is now on the American continent and he's, they're bringing their sick and they're
afflicted in their lame and with their blind and with their dumb and with all them that
were afflicted in any manner.
(38:12):
So Jesus is saying, bring everybody and their afflictions to me.
That's the first thing he did.
And so we're seeing the character and attributes of Jesus.
Another testament, another testament of Christ, right?
Right.
And they did all, both who had been healed and they who were whole bowed down at his
(38:32):
feet and did worship him.
And as many as could come for the multitude did kiss his feet in so much that they did
bathe his feet with their tears.
And it came to pass that he commanded that their little children be brought.
And it goes on and talks about his love for the little children and how he saw them one
by one.
But what did he do?
(38:52):
He healed them and then he ministered to them.
He took care of all of the stuff that stood in their way.
There could be a row block to their relationship with him.
I see this as his strikes a tender chord with me because this is Jesus healing the alcoholic.
Yeah, really.
I know the emotional.
Yeah.
(39:13):
Not just the physical.
Not just the physical.
This is Jesus healing the alcoholic.
And that's the way it'll be in the millennium.
Exactly.
And we learn that in the Book of Mormon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I know it's powerful and the spirit bears witness that it's true.
I mean, you're you're feeling that right now.
(39:34):
I know you are.
Yeah.
Anyway, Scott, I'm just so thankful for the Book of Mormon and for the miracle, the absolute
miracle of its origin, translation and the power of its doctrine and truths.
(39:57):
And I'm grateful for Mormon price.
He paid to a bridge the record and more who protected it for 21 years and and Joseph Smith
and and he'll sacrifice.
So wow, you know, that's why I choose to believe and that's why I choose to stay.
(40:23):
And the doctrine covenants is similar, Scott.
The doctrine covenants with the points of doctrine that are in the revelations of the
doctrine covenants.
Amazing.
Really.
Yeah.
Things about the premortal existence section 93.
I think it's maybe my favorite section of the doctrine covenants about the premortal
(40:43):
existence and and man is spirit and the doctrine covenants section 76.
I mean, this was a hard reaction.
This was a hard revelation and doctrine for many members of the church.
Brigham Young recorded how what a new idea this was for him and that it was not easy
(41:05):
for him because he'd always been taught that there was just a habit in the head and a hell
and to think that there was more than just a habit in the hell.
Because of the revelation revealing that there's a celestial, there's a terrestrial, there's
a telestial and there's outer darkness that there's there's actually four different levels.
(41:29):
Three of them, which are of glory.
Anyway, doctrine comes in section 88 in order to go to the celestial yet to live the celestial
law and terrestrial yet to live a terrestrial law and all of these truths that are in the
revelations of the of the doctrine and covenants are amazing.
(41:49):
Scott, in regards to what we believe, our understanding of God, our relationship with
him, our understanding of Jesus Christ, our relationship with him.
Yeah.
Again, in doctrine, covenants, we learn again in Jesus's own words, by the way, Scott.
I mean, what's really what I think is really awesome about the doctrine, covenants, you
(42:11):
can hear actually here.
I mean, in my mind, I can actually hear the voice of the Lord and the voice of the Lord
speaking right in doctrine, covenants section 19, what he says that he bled from every poor
and as he prayed that he would not shrink.
(42:32):
You already done in section 19, starting with probably verse like 17 section 19 verse 17.
Scott, verse 17, but if they would not repent, they must suffer even as I, which, which suffering
caused myself even God, the greatest of all to tremble because of pain and bleed at every
(42:52):
poor and to suffer both body and spirit and would that I might not drink the bitter cup
and shrink.
Nevertheless, glory be to the father and I partook and I finished my preparations unto
the children of men.
That's in first person.
Yeah, that's the Lord speaking.
Yeah.
I hear that.
(43:12):
I hear his voice and I know it's true and I know he bled from every poor.
Again, I know Joseph Smith first learned that translating the Book of Mormon, but in this
revelation through the Prophet Joseph Smith to Martin Harris, the Lord wanted to repeat
that to help Martin Harris and maybe me and all of us to repent and understand the joy
(43:39):
of repentance that you can either choose to repent or you can suffer not necessarily
in any sort of payment for your sins, but you'll suffer because of your sins.
Well, and then in verse 21 of that same same section, learn of just the sweetness of this.
(44:01):
And I know that there's been song music attached to these words.
And so maybe there's an emotional pull that I feel because of that as well.
But when he says, learn of me, listen to my words and walk in the meekness of my spirit
and you shall have peace in me.
Or my favorites first 23.
Yeah, I love that.
(44:22):
And there's so many others like that in there.
You know, really, there's just so many precious points of doctrine and verses in there that
I know Joseph Smith didn't write.
You know, one point William McClellan when they were first presenting the Book of Commandments
back in the 1830s as being a book of Scripture.
(44:45):
William McClellan thought, well, maybe we can polish them up.
Maybe we can make them better.
Maybe they could be better and and he was challenged.
Well, you go ahead, right, right revelation.
And he can do it.
Scott, I, some of these revelations in the doctrine, covenants are, I mean, section 42,
(45:05):
the law of the Lord and in section 46 on the gifts of the spirit and section 50, you know,
on the brighter and brighter until the perfect day, there's just so many sections in the
doctrine and covenants that I've read over and over again that the Holy Ghost has born
(45:26):
witnessed of to my spirit over and over again that have blessed my life in understanding
Heavenly Father and in having a closer relationship with him.
I mean, the revelations that have been can, they're the canonized in section 121, 122,
(45:48):
123, when Joseph Smith was suffering in the Liberty Jail, those sections alone, Scott,
are best are worth the best blood of the 19th century.
I mean, really, you know, when we learn about how the priest, it operates, you know, by
long suffering, by persuasion, by gentleness and meekness and love unfaigned, let virtue
(46:11):
garnish thy thoughts unceasingly, then shall I confidence wax strong in the presence of
God.
There's just so many verses like that that help me to draw closer to my Heavenly Father.
There is nothing evil or of, of false doctrine taught in these revelations.
(46:32):
I again know they're not perfect.
I know there were lots of changes.
There was editing.
There's not one revelation in there that was given word perfect to Joseph Smith.
They were given to a prophet and they were edited by by a prophet and improved by a prophet.
And I know that they're true.
(46:54):
I used to love what I'd give patriarchal blessings.
I got to explain to those, those who were recipients of those blessings.
I used to tell them, I said, listen, I've never given a perfect patriarchal blessing,
but by the time you get your blessing, it will be whole complete.
(47:18):
And in that way, it will be perfect because after every patriarchal blessing, Scott, I
would edit it three times.
And in every one of those editing, there would be something that would be changed, whether
it was a punctuation that would might change the meaning a little bit or a word that would
be changed or whatever.
(47:40):
And though, and those words were important.
I remember giving a patriarchal blessing once to a mission while he was just getting ready
to go on a mission.
In fact, we had to kind of hurry, I think, and give him his blessing in the middle of
the week because usually I'd give him on Sundays.
I gave him a blessing and by Sunday, I just couldn't rest.
I couldn't rest.
(48:01):
I kept, I kept working on his blessing and I, I had given him his blessing.
I tried and hurried to give it to him because he was leaving the next week.
And I'd given him his blessing.
I'd taken it over to him and I still, the spirit wouldn't let me rest.
And I, I read it again and I saw one word, one word that I knew I had.
(48:23):
I had to change.
I remember changing that and taking that over to his home and saying, Hey, if he, can you
give me back the other blessing I gave you?
I have a new one here for you.
And I said, I'm not going to tell you what, why it's different or how it's different,
(48:43):
but this is your blessing.
I gave once a blessing to a 57 year old woman, uh, convert to the church and wanted a blessing.
And I gave her a blessing and I, it was a beautiful blessing, but that night the spirit
would not let me rest.
And I, I woke up in the middle of the night and I knew that there were, there was a sentence
(49:10):
that I had to go add to her blessing.
And I recorded it, wrote it down and then I went to the computer to solve the middle
of the night and I went to the computer and slipped that into her blessing.
She will never know how that sentence was given to me.
And yet I knew it was manifest to me that that sentence would mean so much to her later
(49:36):
in her life.
And that's how, that's how these revelations in the doctrine, covenants and a prophet Joseph
Smith receiving these revelations.
That's how they worked.
And there's, and there's Joseph F Smith's revelation, you know, in redemption of the
dead.
Wow.
What, how amazing is that that we know what Jesus did in the spirit world and, and get
(49:59):
a glimpse of how the spirit world even works and the gospel preaching that takes place
in the spirit world and we have bring him young, bring him young revelation section
136 about getting the folks across the plains and so winter quarters there.
Yeah, there's some great, there's some great doctrine in that revelation.
Anyway, in the, in the revelations that have been added Scott to the doctrine, covenancy
(50:24):
in my lifetime that have been canonized section 137 revelation on the Alvin and the salvation
of children.
And wow, I love section 137 and said section 138 Joseph F Smith's vision of the redemption
of the dead.
Those have been canonized and added in my lifetime back in 1981.
(50:47):
In fact, we had an insert that was printed that I glued into my old triple combination
doctrine and covenants back in the day.
It was, they were for a little while, they were kind of part of the Pearl of Great Price
and then they decided to add them into the doctrine covenants is section 137 138.
(51:09):
Anyway, we, we are so blessed to have so many evidences and witnesses of the truthfulness
of the restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And I count the scriptures among those, including Book of Mormon, doctrine, covenants and the
(51:33):
Joseph Smith translation, which includes sections in the Pearl of Great Price.
I love the, the truths we learn in the book of Moses.
I love the truths we learn in the book of Abraham.
I love the Joseph Smith Matthews, which is JST of Matthew 24.
I love Joseph Smith history, which, which has been canonized, even though I know there
(51:58):
were nine different accounts of the first vision.
This is the official one.
And I like to, I like to study all the nine different accounts of the first vision and
and I know all the criticism and the anti who love to jump all over that and the different,
different accounts.
But you know, Scott, I've had, I've had spiritual experiences in my life and I don't describe
(52:21):
those every time the same when I speak about them or if I speak about them at all, or if
I even write about them and a spiritual experience I had in 1994 and the, and what I wrote in
1994 would not be the same thing that I would write today in 2025.
I mean, I get it, but there's so many things that people want to pick up on and criticize
(52:46):
and, and well, again, it gets back to the focus, right?
That you choose to believe.
Yeah.
But for me, Scott, it all comes down to the scriptures, the holy scriptures and the witness
of the, of the holy ghost bearing witness of the father and the son and the plan of redemption
(53:06):
and salvation that I believe in.
I mean, my, you take those away and I, I don't have a testimony either.
Right.
I mean, really, they are the cornerstone of my testimony, cornerstone, keystone, all of
that in my testimony of the restoration is, is the holy scriptures.
(53:27):
Now, I mean, the Joseph Smith translation Scott is, if, I think if members really understood
the price that was paid to do the Joseph Smith translation and then what we have now in,
in by way of footnotes and an addendum in the back of our scriptures and the role that
Robert J. Matthew's played to get those into our scriptures and the Joseph Smith going
(53:53):
through the whole Bible.
You know, he worked on that for two and a half years, two years, 1831 to 1833.
And he went through the entire Bible from Genesis all the way through the book of Revelation
and all of those books, I, there's, I think three or four books that no changes were made,
(54:15):
but only three or four and some of the truths that have been restored by way of the Joseph
Smith translation are amazing and a clear evidence and testimony to me that Joseph
Smith was a prophet.
I mean, we learn more about Satan in the Joseph Smith translation than, than we do in the
(54:36):
Holy Bible because of things that have been taken out.
We learn more about covenants and what the, what the new and everlasting covenant is and
the gospel of Jesus Christ in times of antiquity that are not in the Holy Bible as we have
in the King James Version or one of the other four or 500 different translations of the
(54:57):
Bible, but in the Joseph Smith translation, those things have been restored by a prophet
because of his understanding, which he had received by translating the Book of Mormon
and the revelations of the doctrine and covenants.
And by the way, Scott, I, I love the, the effect that the Joseph Smith translation had on
the doctrine and covenants.
(55:19):
There are a number of revelations in the doctrine and covenants that are a direct result of
Joseph Smith working on the Joseph Smith translation.
And the question that arose from it, yeah, exactly, Dr. and covenants 76, the, the three
degrees of glory and outer darkness that that vision, which is really six, six visions in
(55:40):
one doctrine, come to the section 76 is really the result of math of John five, I think 29
that talks about the resurrection of the just and the unjust and Joseph Smith asking the
question, is it really is early, is early to, is there really two places really to in
(56:01):
the scripture that's also, you know, there are many mansions, right?
I, I, we are just so thankful, right?
Right.
So blessed.
So blessed.
And in addition to that, you know, we have some proclamations, you know, and I know that
they're not canonized scripture per se, but these are these are, and we may move into
this in some of the next episode, but you know, when we talk about words of the prophets,
(56:24):
you know, when, when I read the living Christ, for example, that has been written and signed
by, you know, members of the, uh, and, and the proclamation to the family series and
revelations, just those kinds of things, you know, there's six proclamations throughout
the history of the church.
A few years ago, um, I had the opportunity as part of my Institute assignment to teach
(56:47):
Jesus Christ in the everlasting gospel, and we focused on the document, the living Christ.
And one would be hard pressed to come closer to the savior than even through that.
Right.
Right.
And so anyway, and again, that's our focus, you know, as we kind of wind things down today,
(57:08):
I think that, you know, obviously in our next episode, we'll be continuing down this
vein a lot.
But, but just as a reminder, if we can just focus on the one needful thing, the whole
reason that we have the Book of Mormon, the whole reason that we have the revelations
in the doctrine and covenants, the book of commandments, as it was once known, the whole
(57:30):
reason we have all of this is there's one reason.
And that is to bring us more closely to him that we may be able to take his name more
fully upon us and all that is entailed and involved in that and increase in our faith,
a deepening of our love, a recommitment to our commitment, all of those kinds of things.
(57:53):
But the whole purpose is so that we may more fully direct our focus on Jesus Christ, him
crucified, his blood that has redeemed us from all sin and from all of the effects of
the fall of Adam and Eve.
And how do we come closer to him than through the words that he himself spoke or delivered
(58:14):
to prophets living today or in the past?
Amen.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Don't forget to your morning.
Welcome to send us questions to he redeems us at gmail.com until we are together again.
Thank you very much.
Hey there everybody welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
(00:20):
Scott Durfey here as always joined by Uncle Dave.
What's up Dave?
I'm good Scott.
How are you doing?
Good.
We're kind of in our flannels.
It's a chilly day today.
Oh, you got your...
Yeah, I got my flannel on.
It's trying to stay warm.
It's stuck here in your basement.
Down here.
(00:41):
I think there's...
I don't see any heating vents in this room.
There aren't any.
This was supposed to be a cold storage room when it was first built.
So I have this little campfire built for Dave in front of him here by way of a oil heater.
I hope people appreciate the sacrifice.
You poor thing.
We do have a heater here though.
Yeah, I'm really sad for you.
(01:02):
We've got this nice portable heater.
Yeah, we're all good.
Hope everybody's staying warm.
Today is a special...
Well, kind of a weird special day.
Deb sent me this text today.
She says, who knew that it was Happy Squirrel Appreciation Day?
There's a day for everything.
Happy Squirrel.
(01:23):
Well, that's what she said.
Who knew that there was a Happy Squirrel Appreciation Day?
What about the sad squirrel?
They need to change their attitude apparently.
They're not going to have a...
What about the squirrels that are depressed?
They're not...
Well, yeah, I don't want to cash judgment on those poor souls.
The mean squirrels.
I have some for...
Yeah.
I have a friend, you know Richard Hawks.
(01:44):
Yeah.
Or a man who's got some...
Yeah, he's my neighbor kind of here.
He's moved though.
You know, he's in Stanford.
What?
He's the Institute Director at Stanford.
Anyway, yeah, he's got...
Stanford University.
Yeah.
University of Stanford.
Yeah, they moved to California.
When?
This last summer.
(02:06):
Anyway, he's always claiming squirrels attacked him on his mission and he's always got stories
about that.
I never believed them though.
You know.
I've never seen a mean squirrel but he claims they exist.
Well, we could go down that rabbit hole, I think, as best that we don't.
(02:28):
So...
Yeah, happy squirrel day.
Yeah, yeah.
Who knew?
Who knew?
I remember several months ago you taught us that all fruit loops taste the same.
Yeah.
You know, every once in a while we get some really important information.
I was thinking about that this morning when I ate my fruit loops.
For you?
Yeah.
We ate your fruit loops.
Yeah.
Kind of, kind of, it still takes me off.
I'm not sure if breakfast is a champion's.
(02:50):
Well, here we are.
Last week we continued and this week we will as well down the vein of why do I decide to
stay?
I think that's how we...
Yeah, why do I believe?
Why do I believe?
Why do I choose to believe?
Why do I choose to believe?
Why do I stay?
Yeah, exactly.
In the restored gospel.
(03:10):
And we have a little outline that David has primarily worked on.
We've done some of it together, but David has primarily worked on this little outline.
It's been a great outline.
I think that we kind of referenced this fact last week and I'll just bring it up again
today that there's been a lot of reasons that Dave and myself, maybe all of us sometimes
(03:34):
put into consideration the things that we've been talking about here.
One of those was that we both know and David in particular because of his leadership positions
in the church has been sought out a lot by various people in the church and because of
Dave's demeanor and his kindness and all of that.
(03:55):
People feel safe to come to him and feel like that without judgment or ridicule that they
can pose some questions that are sometimes hard and that sometimes create questions within
us and maybe even a little instability in terms of our commitment to living our country.
Covenants or focusing on and honoring our conversion stories, etc.
(04:20):
So anyway, we have this little outline that we've been working on.
This will be the third of I don't know how many, four, probably at least maybe five episodes
where we dwell on this.
And last week, we kind of wrapped it up.
Dave shared a really tender and personal story.
And to him for doing that about how he had heard President Kimball in a priesthood session
(04:47):
many years ago.
He's sat by himself at the top of the Marriott Center.
He's first he said he was alone and we knew that wasn't true.
There's probably 10,000 maybe more people there.
But you know me and I kind of went up to the rafters.
I was up on the student bench seats while everybody was sitting in the chair seats on
(05:07):
the other side and I was I kind of had half of the bleachers to myself over there.
Kind of right up there where my season basketball tickets were.
Probably.
Yeah.
Well anyway, Dave, why don't you just kind of recap that story for us.
And that's not the only time Scott that I've had that experience with prophets.
(05:30):
You know, there have been others who I have heard bear their witness and their special
witness and that I've known by the Holy Ghost that they they not only know he lives.
President Packer said this, right?
He said I not only know that Jesus lives, but I know Jesus.
(05:52):
And it doesn't necessarily mean he saw I am or any of that.
I understand that.
I don't think you have to see him to be a special witness.
However, Joseph F Smith, when talking about what is an apostle, and I'm sorry, I don't
have this quote pulled up.
It just came into my mind.
But Joseph, Joseph, President Joseph F Smith said to be an apostle, you have to be a special
(06:18):
witness and I and ear witness, he said, of the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Something to that effect.
I know he said I and ear witness of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Well, when I was at the empty sea as a branch president some 30 years ago now, Scott, elder
(06:49):
David B. Hate came to do it emotional and elder Hate had been really sick and I think
and had some hard issues or can't remember what his health issues were, but he'd been
really sick.
And anyway, but he came to the empty sea and he he was getting really old and he really
(07:10):
bore a powerful witness of Jesus Christ that I'll never forget and and anyone that was
there, I don't think could forget.
Anyway, it was something like this.
He talked about when he was called to be an apostle that he was in the room in the Salt
(07:31):
Lake Temple where the first presidency in the corner 12 have their meetings, you know,
where where they were they meet and where they meet in a prayer circle and where they
pray.
And he said that after the meeting was over, the last thing on the agenda, President Kimball
was presiding and the last thing on the agenda was to set apart David B. Hate.
(07:57):
And so he said after he was set apart as the newest apostle in the Church of Jesus Christ,
Latter-day Saints, they had a closing prayer and President Kimball said to David B. Hate,
turn to him and said, now, now David, this room is available for the rest of the day.
(08:23):
And I'd like you to just stay here until you receive your special witness.
And elder Hates telling the missionaries this at the empty sea.
And he said, so they all left me in the room alone.
And he said, I didn't know what to do, but I knelt down and said a prayer.
(08:45):
And then he said, I stood up and I as I looked around the room, I saw these pictures of the
Savior.
Then he said, so I started at one picture.
And I stood there and I looked at the picture and thought about my Savior.
And he said, I did that to each one of these pictures that were in the room.
(09:08):
And I went all the way around the room.
And then, you know, he got kind of slow and quiet.
And I'll never forget this moment in my life, when I was feeling the spirit like I was in
that moment.
And he said, after a long pause, I can't tell you everything.
(09:36):
But when I left that room, I was a special witness.
That was so impactful on me as a branch president at the missionary training center.
And you could have hit her to pin drop at that large auditorium.
(10:01):
And it was really, really unforgettable.
Anyway, I've heard other testimonies like that, Scott.
I've been in some pretty personal meetings with some of the brethren, when I was very
a director of some of these institutes.
There would be 44 directors from all over the world who would meet with a few other administrators
(10:27):
and an apostle and hear their witness and their testimony.
And one of the most sacred in our family is when we met with Albert Anderson, when after
helping him write, helping him with the book, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness, and he wanted
to have a pizza party with my family.
(10:49):
And we get on these after we eat pizza and we go to his office and he shows us around
the administration building.
He got in some golf carts and we go in the tunnels and we ended up at the old Tabernacle.
And there's a room in the back of the pipes of the old Tabernacle.
(11:10):
And he talked about the sacred nature of that room, that that's where he had been called.
And that's kind of where the first presence he actually would hang out before the conference
center.
And there was a bathroom and a little kitchen and all of that in this little small but nice
(11:33):
little apartment in the back.
It's not really an apartment, but it's got everything that the first presence he would
need.
And he talked about this where I was called and he began to bear testimony of his special
witness to my children and my grandchildren, which I hope that they will never forget.
(11:58):
I know it impacted like any testimony, it impacts some or the others.
I remember that about a month after that meeting I asked my family and a little family home
evening what they remembered about or what they liked the most, I think was my question.
What did you like the most about our experience with Elder Anderson?
(12:21):
A prophet Syrian revelator.
And we kind of went around all the family, even the little children and a lot of them
talked about the golf carts of course.
But I remember my granddaughter who was at the time like, this is Sierra who's on a mission
right now.
This was when she was about 15 years old when this happened.
(12:44):
And she said when it was her turn, she said, grandpa, you know, I've had some doubts.
I've had some doubts about the church.
But when Elder Anderson bore his testimony about Jesus Christ, I don't have any more
doubts.
(13:05):
You know, I didn't necessarily have the same doubts that Sierra might have been having.
But I know my testimony was stronger, the prophets, the revelators and the restoration
(13:26):
of the gospel because of Elder Anderson's witness.
Anyway, I've, I've, I'm old Scott been around and I just, I know that the apostles and the
prophets are not perfect and they're not infallible.
But I know that they know and I know that they're honest and I know that they know Jesus Christ
(13:51):
and that they have keys that have been given to them by heavenly messengers through the
prophet Joseph Smith and others.
And those keys are well and alive on the earth today and very active in helping all of us
to gain a closer relationship with, with Jesus Christ if we will follow their, their, their
(14:18):
teachings and their counsel.
That, that experience that you just shared about your family with Elder Anderson and him
sharing his witness and all of that.
I think, first off, we don't have to have an experience with an apostle in order to have
those kinds of.
So good.
You know, so that's, that's important.
(14:40):
Number one, because Heavenly Father is no respecter of persons.
He's going to allow me to have that experience even if I'm not privileged enough to be in
a situation that would place me in that situation.
So that's, that's the first thing.
The second thing is, is that I believe a lot of us have those experiences, maybe not, you
know, hearing others and feeling that.
(15:02):
And I know certainly I have, I had a similar experience, you know, with President Kimball
when I was on my mission, just, I didn't meet him, but I saw him and the spirit bore witness
undeniably to me that was on my mission.
Okay.
And so that was great.
But apparently it wasn't enough, you know, because after my mission, you know, I, I,
(15:26):
I chose to go down the wrong road again, even though I had had that experience and looking
back and you know, and even as I was going down that wrong road, Dave, I would, I would
never and could never deny that I had had that experience.
My, I was, I was making a full decision.
This I, I wasn't, I wasn't saying I don't believe it.
I wasn't saying I didn't have those experience.
(15:46):
I wasn't saying anything.
So the question then becomes, the question then becomes, okay, so we have these experiences,
but how do we make them matter?
Not just in the moment, but for the rest of our lives.
And I think that that's again, getting back to maybe one of the many reasons that we have
felt like it's important that maybe we share some of this stuff.
(16:06):
Well, I know there's a difference between not forgetting an experience and remembering
an experience.
Right.
Yeah.
And you don't expound on that.
Well, even though you would never forget having that experience, you didn't recall it.
I chose not to.
You didn't want to remember.
(16:26):
There you go.
You didn't want to focus on it.
That's honest.
You didn't want to.
That's right.
I wanted to deny it actually.
Yeah, absolutely.
A convenience.
Yeah.
Because if it's true, then you're, then you're even more guilty.
And so it's just better to just push it out of your mind and try to forget it and forgetting
(16:47):
it is different than not remembering it.
So I, that's why I love in the, uh, right in Helaman, remember, remember, remember,
present Kimball saying the most important word in the book of Mormon is remember, you
know, remember, remember my sons, you know, Helaman five, 12.
(17:08):
And that I think we're members in there like five times that chapter.
But I, so, so remembering is really key.
Focusing on it is, is really key, you know, but, but Scott, if we, if we stop saying our
prayers, if we, if we stop listening to general conference, if we stop reading the scriptures,
if we stop our going to church, if we stop, okay, we forget.
(17:32):
Okay.
And you have just brought it up.
So, so what this really boils down then to, to, uh, to for me and for, I think the rest
of us too is where's not just our remembering, but where's our focus?
Cause that focus is what brings us to those rememberings, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Remembering and focusing are very much synonymous with me as I, as I think about it and think
(17:56):
about that.
Yeah.
I think you're right.
I love that.
So, um, yeah, people, because of their choices, because of their actions, because, because
of things that happen to them that aren't necessarily even their own fault too.
Yeah.
You know, being acted upon the, the reality is we are acted upon by Satan and sinners and
(18:18):
others.
And, uh, sometimes that can put a real cloud over our remembrance and causes us to forget.
So anyway, uh, I know that's true Scott, but, but, uh, we are, we are so blessed to be able
to have witnesses of apostles, prophets, seers and revelators that I didn't bring this up
(18:42):
last week, but you know, we've been in so many church history sites where we've stood
where the prophet bore witness, where we stood where the prophet saw the father and the son
were, uh, and, and in that case, I'm thinking actually the new K Whitney store, the upper
room, the school of the prophets.
Yeah.
For that.
(19:03):
Anyway, we've, we've been in the Kirtland temple.
We've, we've been in some of these really sacred places and we've stood on holy ground
at a Monday on and Susquehanna and all of those where I have felt the spirit bear witness
to my spirit that this is sacred ground and sacred things happened here and sacred things
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will happen here.
You know, the site of the temple and independence and the new Jerusalem and Jesus Christ coming
back where Adam and Eve, uh, blessed, blessed there, gave their last blessings to their family.
And anyway, Scott, we've been, you and I have been so blessed.
(19:46):
My family's been so blessed that have had so many of these experiences, but I know that
they're real and, um, I don't know why I've, I was telling my heavenly father last night.
I don't know why I've been blessed to be able to have the gospel of Jesus Christ in my life
when so many don't, but I'm thankful for whatever I did in the premortal existence and whatever
(20:12):
I've done here, which I know is not enough to be able to be blessed by all of these things.
Anyway, so that's, uh, we've talked to, uh, maybe we should just outline again.
I've divided the reason, I believe in the reason I stay into two or three parts.
(20:32):
One is, uh, evidences and witnesses.
And we've talked about the Holy Ghost.
We've talked about teaching and testimony and experiences of others.
And now I want to talk just a little bit about scriptures.
I really think the scriptures, Scott, is, uh, provides us with evidence, not just a witness,
(20:53):
but evidence that the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is real, that it's true, and that the
very foundation or keystone, however you want to think of it is the Book of Mormon.
You know, the Book of Mormon, to me, every time I feel that maybe paraphrasing President
(21:15):
Kimball, whenever the distance between me and God seems to get further and further apart,
I read the Book of Mormon and that gap closes in a hurry as I immerse myself in the word
of the Lord in the Book of Mormon.
And, uh, I don't know how many hundreds of times that's happened in my life.
(21:38):
And, uh, every time it does, I, I can testify of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon
because of the Holy Ghost, which I feel when, when I read it.
So the Book of Mormon is an amazing, I think, evidence and testimony, witness of the restoration.
(21:59):
And the origin and the translation of it, you know, the miracle associated with, with
Moroni, I believe there was an angel, literally an angel.
This wasn't the, in fact, we know we're doing come follow me right now.
And, and my wife was reading about Moroni's visit to yesterday.
(22:21):
And I said to her, sweetheart, do you aware that Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith 22 times,
22 times in his lifetime, Moroni in Joseph Smith's lifetime, Moroni appeared to him.
That's, that's amazing.
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When you think about it, Scott, and she said, really?
And I said, well, five times within 24 hours, you know, the first 24 hours he appeared to
Joseph Smith five times, three at a night, once the next day.
And then when he went to El Camorra, anyway, I know Joseph Smith was friends, his, maybe
(23:03):
best friend, his best terrestrial, Celestial, I guess Celestial, since Moroni is trans,
resurrected, not translated, his best Celestial friend and angel was, was Moroni who tutored
him and who interviewed him.
He said he went back for interviews to the Hill Camorra every time and he was, he was
(23:26):
interviewed and he was taught by Moroni.
I mean, I, I don't have to be present when that experience happens to, to know and choose
to believe that.
And the origin and then the translation of it to have done what he did in some say,
(23:48):
90 working days, less than 90 working days.
I think president Nelson, based on his research and historians that he works with, said that
it happened in less than 65 days.
If you, if you just go through the journal and I know doubters can say that Joseph Smith's
journals aren't true and that you can't go by that.
(24:10):
I, I get all that.
But, but if you take care of taking a minute as word, which I choose to do, then he translated
the book in, in about two months, 60 working days over maybe a long period of time, but
to what he actually worked on the book and was translating, wow, to produce 500 pages
(24:35):
and all of the literary forms and all of the names and all of the places and to have no
contradictions in regards to the storyline and the flow of it through the narrative of
the Book of Mormon throughout the entire 500 and something pages and to, to build the discourses
(24:57):
on doctrine that are in the Book of Mormon, the, the stories, the narrative, the context,
the, I mean, Scott, really the Jewish writing style with the two as most and others, other
literary styles, word, Prince.
I don't know if you know much about word, Prince.
(25:18):
I know that brother Keller, who was a, by the way, a converted pastor of, I think it
was Presbyterian, Presbyterian pastor who joined the church, then came to teach religion
at BYU.
He did a computer study on the Book of Mormon.
(25:38):
He wanted to help his, all his evangelical friends to have something to go by to maybe
build a basis for believing in the Book of Mormon.
And he did, he did a study of word, word prints using computers and identified that based on
how authors use words.
(25:59):
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he showed that you can establish a word print like a finger print, like a fingerprint.
And he showed that there are distinctly dozens of authors in the Book of Mormon that it wasn't,
(26:21):
wasn't just Joseph Smith writing it, but there's 24 other men who are writing it, who did over
a thousand words to do, to get 24 authors.
They had to write it over 1000.
Had to have a thousand words sampling in order to identify it.
(26:41):
Exactly.
Yeah.
So word prints and all of the other things in regards to the Book of Mormon and put all
that aside, put all of that aside.
That's what it Book of Mormon teaches us about the plan of redemption and the special truths
(27:02):
that we learn in the Book of Mormon about Jesus Christ and the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
For example, we've talked about this before on this podcast, but there's only, well, the
first place where Joseph Smith learned that Jesus bled from every poor.
You don't read that in the Bible.
I mean, we take as Latter-day Saints, and even for some who have left the church, they
(27:27):
take certain truths to be true and they don't know the source of them.
And they under appreciate what we learn, the unique and special doctrines, points of doctrine
that we learn in the Book of Mormon, such as he, you know, in Mosiah chapter three, let's
(27:55):
just read it.
Scott Mosiah chapter three, verse seven, when he talks about how great the English was of
Jesus Christ and the Atonement and an angel was showing this to King Benjamin, and lo,
he shall suffer temptations and pain of body, hunger, thirst and fatigue, even more than
man can suffer except it be unto death.
(28:15):
For behold, blood cometh from every poor, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness
and the abominations of his people.
I can see Joseph Smith translating that almost gasping.
You know, I think there must have been a pause.
And nobody else believes that from every poor, I mean, not even everybody believes Jesus
(28:44):
blood and Gethsemane at all.
Some do, I know some do, Luke records that his sweat was as it were, like great drops
blotting the ground.
But anyway.
Well, and there's other there's other doctrines, you know, and interestingly enough, there's
(29:05):
a lot of doctrines in the Book of Mormon that we are, I don't know if it's so prevalent
now, but I know when I was on my mission, for example, that there was a wrongful view
that we saw works as being the way that we are saved, right?
And we know from the Book of Mormon that that's just not the case that we don't believe
(29:28):
that we're redeemed.
This is in 2 Nephi 2 verse 3, not at the beginning of the verse, but that we're redeemed because
of the righteousness of thy redeemer.
Yeah, we are not in the book.
Yeah, we hide to Jacob.
Yeah.
I know.
And there but there's some verses in there that the anti Mormons quote from me, they
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know they pick out to save by grace after all we can do.
Yeah, but then they fail to go to Alma 23 where it says that all we could do was to
repent of our sins.
So so I know all the anti.
Well, I don't know if claim to know them all.
I hope I don't know them all.
But but all the anti is that picks pick a verse out, you know, here and there.
(30:16):
But Scott, anybody who has read the Book of Mormon with a sincere heart with any intent
to know if it's true or not, yeah, cannot help but draw closer to Jesus Christ, understand
the plan of redemption.
The word plan, by the way, the word plan is not in the Bible.
(30:40):
There's no discussion of the plan of redemption or the plan of salvation in the Bible.
And the word plan, I think is 34 times something like that 34 times in the in the Book of Mormon
and and 14 times.
I know this for sure.
14 times in the Book of Mormon.
It talks about the plan of redemption.
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Plan of happiness, great plan of happiness, plan of mercy, plan of God, plan of salvation.
All of it's throughout the Book of Mormon that God has a plan and that Jesus Christ
is the Savior and the Redeemer to carry out and fulfill and be the center of that plan.
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And it is taught so plainly, so powerfully in the Book of Mormon, Scott that I, you know,
when it talks about the martyrdom of Joseph Smith and and Hiram Smith, Scott John Taylor,
when he wrote that section, I think it's 134, isn't it in the Doctrine and Covenants?
(31:47):
Yeah.
He says that the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants cost the best blood of the 19th
century.
Well, amen to that.
But what I love is that if Joseph Smith only wrote second Nephi, if if if second Nephi,
(32:14):
chapter two, chapter nine, Alma, chapter five, well, Mosiah, King Benjamin's address, Mosiah,
chapter three, four and five, Alma, well, see there are Jacob chapter five.
I can't leave out the the allegory of the of the of the olive tree.
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That's one of my favorite chapters.
There are about a dozen chapters in there that if Joseph Smith only wrote those, it
was worth dying for.
Alma 34 for me, rather Alma seven for me.
Seven 32, 34, five six.
(32:57):
Yeah.
Scott, I am so grateful for the sacrifice that Joseph Smith and others made to make
the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants possible for us.
So I'm really, I'm really thankful for the for the Book of Mormon and what we learned
(33:20):
about the resurrection, the reality and the universal nature of the resurrection.
God, nobody else really understands and knows for sure or believes that everyone's going
to be resurrected and return to the presence of God.
That is so clear in Alma's teachings in Alma chapter 11.
(33:41):
Yep.
And it's so clear in the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Book of Mormon.
I believe Paul taught it in 1 Corinthians 15, right?
I mean, that's how we interpret, but not all churches do.
So it's just so again, points of doctrine that help us to understand our Heavenly Father,
(34:07):
his plan, Jesus Christ and his role as our savior, Redeemer and the Holy Ghost who administers
the plan of salvation and grace and mercy in our lives.
And so many other things.
I mean, the witness of Jesus Christ and his appearance and the 2,500 eyewitnesses that
(34:31):
feel the Prince of the nails in his hands and feet and thrust, not just feel, but thrust
their hand into his side and the 200 years of peace that follow the almost 200 years,
the peace that follow that Scott.
Oh man, the 3rd Nephi 17.
(34:52):
My wife said that's her, her favorite when Christ administers to all the children and
angels appear and, and they're, they're all healed.
And I know that happened.
I know the events in the Book of Mormon are true.
I know there was a Moroni.
I know there was a Mormon.
I know there was a Nephi and a Lehi.
(35:13):
These are not figurative literary figures.
These are real men, real women with real families who have the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And even though they lived the law of Moses, they had the gospel of Jesus Christ.
They had priesthood and temples.
(35:34):
They had all of these things that, that, and who I don't want to get caught up in the DNA
of it or what others have said about the DNA of it or about the whereabouts or the geography.
I don't care about the geography.
None of that stuff really matters to me.
The only thing that matters to me is the doctrine that, that is taught and the examples of those
(36:00):
who lived it or the, or is what really matters to me and how I can liken my life to them
and liken the doctrine in the Book of Mormon to my life.
So that's, that's how I feel.
I know the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God.
(36:21):
And I know it's, it's the word of God.
And I know there's been lots of changes.
Okay.
For all the anties, I know there were, were pronouns and commas and changes and mistakes.
I know it wasn't perfect.
It's still not perfect.
At least that's what I don't believe it's perfect.
Joseph Smith never claimed it was perfect.
(36:42):
He said it's the most correct correct, right?
But I know it's not perfect.
And, and yet the teachings in it are for me and, and I know the Holy Ghost hundreds of
times has borne witness to me of its, of its truthfulness as not only I have studied it
(37:06):
personally, but as I have tried to teach it.
There's a lot in the Book of Mormon too that teaches us about the, the nature and character
of Jesus himself.
Yeah, for sure.
That we don't maybe get other places.
And I just have one example.
I thought of it.
I hadn't planned to bring this up till you mentioned that Chris has been reading in third,
(37:26):
or her favorite part, some of her favorite parts is in 3rd and 5th 17.
This is where one of those, and I'm just going to take a second and cover that because
this is where we really see a glimpse of the character and attributes of the Savior.
In chapter 17 of 3rd Nephi, this starts in verse 9, it came to pass that when he had
(37:49):
thus spoken all the multitude did with one accord go forth with their sick and they're
afflicted in their lame.
So they're bringing them to Jesus.
Jesus is now on the American continent and he's, they're bringing their sick and they're
afflicted in their lame and with their blind and with their dumb and with all them that
were afflicted in any manner.
(38:12):
So Jesus is saying, bring everybody and their afflictions to me.
That's the first thing he did.
And so we're seeing the character and attributes of Jesus.
Another testament, another testament of Christ, right?
Right.
And they did all, both who had been healed and they who were whole bowed down at his
(38:32):
feet and did worship him.
And as many as could come for the multitude did kiss his feet in so much that they did
bathe his feet with their tears.
And it came to pass that he commanded that their little children be brought.
And it goes on and talks about his love for the little children and how he saw them one
by one.
But what did he do?
(38:52):
He healed them and then he ministered to them.
He took care of all of the stuff that stood in their way.
There could be a row block to their relationship with him.
I see this as his strikes a tender chord with me because this is Jesus healing the alcoholic.
Yeah, really.
I know the emotional.
Yeah.
(39:13):
Not just the physical.
Not just the physical.
This is Jesus healing the alcoholic.
And that's the way it'll be in the millennium.
Exactly.
And we learn that in the Book of Mormon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I know it's powerful and the spirit bears witness that it's true.
I mean, you're you're feeling that right now.
(39:34):
I know you are.
Yeah.
Anyway, Scott, I'm just so thankful for the Book of Mormon and for the miracle, the absolute
miracle of its origin, translation and the power of its doctrine and truths.
(39:57):
And I'm grateful for Mormon price.
He paid to a bridge the record and more who protected it for 21 years and and Joseph Smith
and and he'll sacrifice.
So wow, you know, that's why I choose to believe and that's why I choose to stay.
(40:23):
And the doctrine covenants is similar, Scott.
The doctrine covenants with the points of doctrine that are in the revelations of the
doctrine covenants.
Amazing.
Really.
Yeah.
Things about the premortal existence section 93.
I think it's maybe my favorite section of the doctrine covenants about the premortal
(40:43):
existence and and man is spirit and the doctrine covenants section 76.
I mean, this was a hard reaction.
This was a hard revelation and doctrine for many members of the church.
Brigham Young recorded how what a new idea this was for him and that it was not easy
(41:05):
for him because he'd always been taught that there was just a habit in the head and a hell
and to think that there was more than just a habit in the hell.
Because of the revelation revealing that there's a celestial, there's a terrestrial, there's
a telestial and there's outer darkness that there's there's actually four different levels.
(41:29):
Three of them, which are of glory.
Anyway, doctrine comes in section 88 in order to go to the celestial yet to live the celestial
law and terrestrial yet to live a terrestrial law and all of these truths that are in the
revelations of the of the doctrine and covenants are amazing.
(41:49):
Scott, in regards to what we believe, our understanding of God, our relationship with
him, our understanding of Jesus Christ, our relationship with him.
Yeah.
Again, in doctrine, covenants, we learn again in Jesus's own words, by the way, Scott.
I mean, what's really what I think is really awesome about the doctrine, covenants, you
(42:11):
can hear actually here.
I mean, in my mind, I can actually hear the voice of the Lord and the voice of the Lord
speaking right in doctrine, covenants section 19, what he says that he bled from every poor
and as he prayed that he would not shrink.
(42:32):
You already done in section 19, starting with probably verse like 17 section 19 verse 17.
Scott, verse 17, but if they would not repent, they must suffer even as I, which, which suffering
caused myself even God, the greatest of all to tremble because of pain and bleed at every
(42:52):
poor and to suffer both body and spirit and would that I might not drink the bitter cup
and shrink.
Nevertheless, glory be to the father and I partook and I finished my preparations unto
the children of men.
That's in first person.
Yeah, that's the Lord speaking.
Yeah.
I hear that.
(43:12):
I hear his voice and I know it's true and I know he bled from every poor.
Again, I know Joseph Smith first learned that translating the Book of Mormon, but in this
revelation through the Prophet Joseph Smith to Martin Harris, the Lord wanted to repeat
that to help Martin Harris and maybe me and all of us to repent and understand the joy
(43:39):
of repentance that you can either choose to repent or you can suffer not necessarily
in any sort of payment for your sins, but you'll suffer because of your sins.
Well, and then in verse 21 of that same same section, learn of just the sweetness of this.
(44:01):
And I know that there's been song music attached to these words.
And so maybe there's an emotional pull that I feel because of that as well.
But when he says, learn of me, listen to my words and walk in the meekness of my spirit
and you shall have peace in me.
Or my favorites first 23.
Yeah, I love that.
(44:22):
And there's so many others like that in there.
You know, really, there's just so many precious points of doctrine and verses in there that
I know Joseph Smith didn't write.
You know, one point William McClellan when they were first presenting the Book of Commandments
back in the 1830s as being a book of Scripture.
(44:45):
William McClellan thought, well, maybe we can polish them up.
Maybe we can make them better.
Maybe they could be better and and he was challenged.
Well, you go ahead, right, right revelation.
And he can do it.
Scott, I, some of these revelations in the doctrine, covenants are, I mean, section 42,
(45:05):
the law of the Lord and in section 46 on the gifts of the spirit and section 50, you know,
on the brighter and brighter until the perfect day, there's just so many sections in the
doctrine and covenants that I've read over and over again that the Holy Ghost has born
(45:26):
witnessed of to my spirit over and over again that have blessed my life in understanding
Heavenly Father and in having a closer relationship with him.
I mean, the revelations that have been can, they're the canonized in section 121, 122,
(45:48):
123, when Joseph Smith was suffering in the Liberty Jail, those sections alone, Scott,
are best are worth the best blood of the 19th century.
I mean, really, you know, when we learn about how the priest, it operates, you know, by
long suffering, by persuasion, by gentleness and meekness and love unfaigned, let virtue
(46:11):
garnish thy thoughts unceasingly, then shall I confidence wax strong in the presence of
God.
There's just so many verses like that that help me to draw closer to my Heavenly Father.
There is nothing evil or of, of false doctrine taught in these revelations.
(46:32):
I again know they're not perfect.
I know there were lots of changes.
There was editing.
There's not one revelation in there that was given word perfect to Joseph Smith.
They were given to a prophet and they were edited by by a prophet and improved by a prophet.
And I know that they're true.
(46:54):
I used to love what I'd give patriarchal blessings.
I got to explain to those, those who were recipients of those blessings.
I used to tell them, I said, listen, I've never given a perfect patriarchal blessing,
but by the time you get your blessing, it will be whole complete.
(47:18):
And in that way, it will be perfect because after every patriarchal blessing, Scott, I
would edit it three times.
And in every one of those editing, there would be something that would be changed, whether
it was a punctuation that would might change the meaning a little bit or a word that would
be changed or whatever.
(47:40):
And though, and those words were important.
I remember giving a patriarchal blessing once to a mission while he was just getting ready
to go on a mission.
In fact, we had to kind of hurry, I think, and give him his blessing in the middle of
the week because usually I'd give him on Sundays.
I gave him a blessing and by Sunday, I just couldn't rest.
I couldn't rest.
(48:01):
I kept, I kept working on his blessing and I, I had given him his blessing.
I tried and hurried to give it to him because he was leaving the next week.
And I'd given him his blessing.
I'd taken it over to him and I still, the spirit wouldn't let me rest.
And I, I read it again and I saw one word, one word that I knew I had.
(48:23):
I had to change.
I remember changing that and taking that over to his home and saying, Hey, if he, can you
give me back the other blessing I gave you?
I have a new one here for you.
And I said, I'm not going to tell you what, why it's different or how it's different,
(48:43):
but this is your blessing.
I gave once a blessing to a 57 year old woman, uh, convert to the church and wanted a blessing.
And I gave her a blessing and I, it was a beautiful blessing, but that night the spirit
would not let me rest.
And I, I woke up in the middle of the night and I knew that there were, there was a sentence
(49:10):
that I had to go add to her blessing.
And I recorded it, wrote it down and then I went to the computer to solve the middle
of the night and I went to the computer and slipped that into her blessing.
She will never know how that sentence was given to me.
And yet I knew it was manifest to me that that sentence would mean so much to her later
(49:36):
in her life.
And that's how, that's how these revelations in the doctrine, covenants and a prophet Joseph
Smith receiving these revelations.
That's how they worked.
And there's, and there's Joseph F Smith's revelation, you know, in redemption of the
dead.
Wow.
What, how amazing is that that we know what Jesus did in the spirit world and, and get
(49:59):
a glimpse of how the spirit world even works and the gospel preaching that takes place
in the spirit world and we have bring him young, bring him young revelation section
136 about getting the folks across the plains and so winter quarters there.
Yeah, there's some great, there's some great doctrine in that revelation.
Anyway, in the, in the revelations that have been added Scott to the doctrine, covenancy
(50:24):
in my lifetime that have been canonized section 137 revelation on the Alvin and the salvation
of children.
And wow, I love section 137 and said section 138 Joseph F Smith's vision of the redemption
of the dead.
Those have been canonized and added in my lifetime back in 1981.
(50:47):
In fact, we had an insert that was printed that I glued into my old triple combination
doctrine and covenants back in the day.
It was, they were for a little while, they were kind of part of the Pearl of Great Price
and then they decided to add them into the doctrine covenants is section 137 138.
(51:09):
Anyway, we, we are so blessed to have so many evidences and witnesses of the truthfulness
of the restoration of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And I count the scriptures among those, including Book of Mormon, doctrine, covenants and the
(51:33):
Joseph Smith translation, which includes sections in the Pearl of Great Price.
I love the, the truths we learn in the book of Moses.
I love the truths we learn in the book of Abraham.
I love the Joseph Smith Matthews, which is JST of Matthew 24.
I love Joseph Smith history, which, which has been canonized, even though I know there
(51:58):
were nine different accounts of the first vision.
This is the official one.
And I like to, I like to study all the nine different accounts of the first vision and
and I know all the criticism and the anti who love to jump all over that and the different,
different accounts.
But you know, Scott, I've had, I've had spiritual experiences in my life and I don't describe
(52:21):
those every time the same when I speak about them or if I speak about them at all, or if
I even write about them and a spiritual experience I had in 1994 and the, and what I wrote in
1994 would not be the same thing that I would write today in 2025.
I mean, I get it, but there's so many things that people want to pick up on and criticize
(52:46):
and, and well, again, it gets back to the focus, right?
That you choose to believe.
Yeah.
But for me, Scott, it all comes down to the scriptures, the holy scriptures and the witness
of the, of the holy ghost bearing witness of the father and the son and the plan of redemption
(53:06):
and salvation that I believe in.
I mean, my, you take those away and I, I don't have a testimony either.
Right.
I mean, really, they are the cornerstone of my testimony, cornerstone, keystone, all of
that in my testimony of the restoration is, is the holy scriptures.
(53:27):
Now, I mean, the Joseph Smith translation Scott is, if, I think if members really understood
the price that was paid to do the Joseph Smith translation and then what we have now in,
in by way of footnotes and an addendum in the back of our scriptures and the role that
Robert J. Matthew's played to get those into our scriptures and the Joseph Smith going
(53:53):
through the whole Bible.
You know, he worked on that for two and a half years, two years, 1831 to 1833.
And he went through the entire Bible from Genesis all the way through the book of Revelation
and all of those books, I, there's, I think three or four books that no changes were made,
(54:15):
but only three or four and some of the truths that have been restored by way of the Joseph
Smith translation are amazing and a clear evidence and testimony to me that Joseph
Smith was a prophet.
I mean, we learn more about Satan in the Joseph Smith translation than, than we do in the
(54:36):
Holy Bible because of things that have been taken out.
We learn more about covenants and what the, what the new and everlasting covenant is and
the gospel of Jesus Christ in times of antiquity that are not in the Holy Bible as we have
in the King James Version or one of the other four or 500 different translations of the
(54:57):
Bible, but in the Joseph Smith translation, those things have been restored by a prophet
because of his understanding, which he had received by translating the Book of Mormon
and the revelations of the doctrine and covenants.
And by the way, Scott, I, I love the, the effect that the Joseph Smith translation had on
the doctrine and covenants.
(55:19):
There are a number of revelations in the doctrine and covenants that are a direct result of
Joseph Smith working on the Joseph Smith translation.
And the question that arose from it, yeah, exactly, Dr. and covenants 76, the, the three
degrees of glory and outer darkness that that vision, which is really six, six visions in
(55:40):
one doctrine, come to the section 76 is really the result of math of John five, I think 29
that talks about the resurrection of the just and the unjust and Joseph Smith asking the
question, is it really is early, is early to, is there really two places really to in
(56:01):
the scripture that's also, you know, there are many mansions, right?
I, I, we are just so thankful, right?
Right.
So blessed.
So blessed.
And in addition to that, you know, we have some proclamations, you know, and I know that
they're not canonized scripture per se, but these are these are, and we may move into
this in some of the next episode, but you know, when we talk about words of the prophets,
(56:24):
you know, when, when I read the living Christ, for example, that has been written and signed
by, you know, members of the, uh, and, and the proclamation to the family series and
revelations, just those kinds of things, you know, there's six proclamations throughout
the history of the church.
A few years ago, um, I had the opportunity as part of my Institute assignment to teach
(56:47):
Jesus Christ in the everlasting gospel, and we focused on the document, the living Christ.
And one would be hard pressed to come closer to the savior than even through that.
Right.
Right.
And so anyway, and again, that's our focus, you know, as we kind of wind things down today,
(57:08):
I think that, you know, obviously in our next episode, we'll be continuing down this
vein a lot.
But, but just as a reminder, if we can just focus on the one needful thing, the whole
reason that we have the Book of Mormon, the whole reason that we have the revelations
in the doctrine and covenants, the book of commandments, as it was once known, the whole
(57:30):
reason we have all of this is there's one reason.
And that is to bring us more closely to him that we may be able to take his name more
fully upon us and all that is entailed and involved in that and increase in our faith,
a deepening of our love, a recommitment to our commitment, all of those kinds of things.
(57:53):
But the whole purpose is so that we may more fully direct our focus on Jesus Christ, him
crucified, his blood that has redeemed us from all sin and from all of the effects of
the fall of Adam and Eve.
And how do we come closer to him than through the words that he himself spoke or delivered
(58:14):
to prophets living today or in the past?
Amen.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Don't forget to your morning.
Welcome to send us questions to he redeems us at gmail.com until we are together again.
Thank you very much.
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