February 16, 2025 • 56 mins
n today’s episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, we will be focusing heavily on the importance of choosing to believe and remain faithful in the gospel of Jesus Christ. We’ll explore the role of personal revelation, the significance of covenants, and the power of redemption over mere assimilation into church culture.
Our discussion will also touch on the scriptural foundation of faith in the latter days, including Daniel’s prophecy and Christ’s teachings on deception and endurance. We’ll examine how understanding the character and attributes of God strengthens our faith and deepens our relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Additionally, we’ll talk about the unique blessings of being covenant children of Christ, the significance of taking upon ourselves His name, and how staying on the covenant path provides spiritual freedom and power. Through scriptural insights, personal experiences, and gospel principles, we’ll reaffirm why faith in Christ is the foundation of true discipleship
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey there everybody, welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, Scott
(00:21):
and David Durfey here as always. How are you David?
I'm good, so good Scott.
It's good to be with you again as always. Our listeners want to know what's happening
with your mission, Cole.
Oh well, they're in.
Papers are in, papers are our stake president sent us a screenshot from his computer that
(00:45):
said Durfee's papers are ready for assignment. So that was just on Friday I think. And so
today's Wednesday, so we hope that maybe in the next few weeks we'll have a call.
You could have a call.
(01:05):
We'll hopefully get the call this week or next week and we haven't asked to go anywhere
and in our brief, brief conversation with him.
Tell me about that conversation you had with him.
It was, well, I guess it was 45 minutes to an hour. We were in his office and just talked
(01:33):
about things and the book and his family, my family. It was just kind of an informal
really conversation and get caught up conversation. And he was very concerned about Chris and
she was with me of course.
And so he was asking her lots of questions and expressing his love and concern and it
(01:59):
was very, very, very, very sweet. He walked us out outside. Anyway, he's just so, so kind,
so cordial, so, you know, gentle and meek and humble.
So anyway, I think the only thing I told him was, and that doesn't mean that's will affect
(02:26):
the call, but I said, Elder Anderson, Chris doesn't do well in heat. You know, she hates
the hot weather and I don't know, it'd be hard for her to serve where it's really, really
hot.
And he said, well, that's, that's really good information. And I said, other than that,
(02:50):
we'll go wherever the Lord wants us to go and we'll even go there.
You know, we'll, Chris, Chris, Chris wouldn't want that. We'll go to Egypt where she had
a sunstroke and almost died. We'll go back to Egypt if that's where the Lord wants us
to go. But she, her thermometer, I think, has always been broken and she doesn't, she
(03:15):
just doesn't do well in hot temperatures.
So that's, that was our only, I think, qualifying thing that I told him. You know, we could
go on a temple mission, a proselyting mission, a MLS, that's a member leader support mission,
(03:36):
a teaching mission, a seminary institute mission. So we're excited to find out where
the Lord wants us to serve. And it'll be a wonderful experience and sacrifice and blessing.
Oh, you know how that works.
Yeah.
Sacrifice is a blessing.
Sacrifice is a blessing.
(03:57):
So we're excited to get on with that.
Yeah, that's exciting. I'm excited for your kind of, we're gonna, I'm gonna miss this
association, but it was changed. It's still great, but
Yeah, we'll pick, we'll pick it up. Maybe we'll know when you get back.
Yeah.
Well, we've been on a kind of a hot series over the last four episodes so far, Dave,
(04:19):
where we've been talking about this concept of why I choose to believe and stay in the
gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a choice. We've talked about many really kind of impactful
and important type of ideas around it, et cetera. Today, we're going to expand just
(04:40):
a little bit.
Yeah. And maybe just to begin with Scott, I've been thinking about the, all of the prophecies
about the latter days and Daniel's great prophecy and dream that he interpreted of King Nebuchadnezzar
and Daniel chapter two. And it's just, I just think it's really important for members of
(05:05):
the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to understand that, that God has promised.
I mean, I think people get a little shaky and fearful about this, that there is nothing
to fear and there's nothing to be shaky about. The gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored
in the latter days as prophesied. And this is Daniel two 44 scripture. I memorized on
(05:33):
my mission and it shall never be destroyed. This church isn't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter how many leave. It doesn't matter how many stay. It doesn't matter how many come
and go. This church isn't going anywhere. This is the kingdom of God on earth and it's
(05:54):
here to take us into the millennium to prepare the year for the second coming of Jesus Christ.
We have prophets, shears and revelators. And if there's a, if there's only a hundred of
us or a hundred million of us, it's not going anywhere. And I, I know that's true, Scott,
(06:16):
and it's just really, I think important for all of our listeners to remind themselves
of that, of that fact, that truth. We'll talk about the difference between facts and truths.
And I think that's both. It's a fact and it's the truth that the kingdom of God's not going
anywhere as prophesied. So just everyone needs to keep that in mind as we talk about
(06:39):
why some people stay. And this isn't new. This isn't new that people leave the church
and that there's a faith crisis. We do live in a day of deception. We live in a day of
great deception. It's not the same now as it was when there were all kinds of people
apostatizing as they, as they went across the plains and people stayed in Missouri and
(07:03):
people stayed in Iowa and people stayed in Nauvoo and seven of the first 12 apostles
leave the church or it's not like that. We're in a different day. It's a different circumstance.
You can't compare this generation with that generation, but there's a lot of people, no
(07:23):
doubt, who are being deceived and that's prophesied. So this is in Joseph Smith Matthew, in Joseph
Smith Matthew, in the Pearl of Great Price, verse 22, for in those days, that's these
days, the last days, there shall also arise false Christ and false prophets and shall
(07:48):
and shall show great signs and wonders in so much that if possible, they shall deceive
the very elect who are the elect according to the covenant. So people in the covenant,
the new and everlasting covenant, people who have been in the temple, people who have received
(08:09):
temple covenants, those who are in the covenant, the very elect will be deceived. So we shouldn't
be surprised or shocked by any of this. It's all been prophesied. God's in control. He
has a plan and my goodness, if people here in along the Wasatch Front or anywhere, anywhere
(08:37):
where people are having faith crisis, which is anywhere in church, really, I'm sure it's
in all countries of the of the world. But my goodness, if you could see the number of
people who are joining the church to replace those who are being deceived and leaving the
(08:57):
church, you wouldn't be wringing your hands or worried about this. I mean, there is real
growth in the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Day Saints, and by the most humble, most prepared,
most elect, most foredained of God's spirit children to really here in the last the last
(09:21):
hour, the last quarter, you know, to to help prepare the earth for the second coming. The
church is in the church has never been stronger. Scott has never been stronger. I'm not I'm
not saying strength comes in numbers. Although I know the church is experiencing real growth,
(09:42):
the real strength comes in one's witness and their testimony. President, I really say the
real strength of the church is in the individual's testimonies in the church. And that is definitely
growing. It's becoming stronger in spite of all the deception in spite of all of the different
(10:03):
attacks and programs that detract from the church and seem to be a great temptation and
test members of the church. Anyway, so though just some preliminary thoughts about that as
we as we talk about that, and I've been grateful for the positive feedback that I've received
(10:25):
personally from friends and others who listen to the podcast to say, Hey, I'm really enjoying
this this part of the podcast. So thank you for that. So let's where do we leave off,
Scott? Well, I think last time we were together, we were talking about personal experiences.
I think that, you know, that which was what we called Roman numeral to write. And then
(10:51):
we moved into our knowledge of in relationship with Godhead Roman numeral three. I think
that we touched on this a little bit, but probably where we ought to pick up today.
Yeah. Again, this is based just on a little outline that I put together. And it was I
just entitled it why I choose to believe and stay in the restored church in the restored
(11:14):
gospel of Jesus Christ. And Roman numeral number one was evidences and witnesses to personal
experiences. And now we're on three, right knowledge and relationship with the Godhead.
Yeah. So as you look at that list, Scott, I've got a B C D E F what's your and G I mean,
(11:37):
we've got a G what are your thoughts? I had a conversation recently with somebody and
we were talking a lot about things in the church. There's a lot of there's a lot of
things that comprise the church. We have the policies, we have the procedures, we have
the administrations, we have the doctrine, we have a lot of things that really when you
talk about the church that the church encompasses and envelops all of these things, right? Above
(12:04):
all of these things, this one is in my by my estimation, Dave, the most important one,
you know, and I think Jesus concurred with that. You know, we've made reference many
times to Luke chapter 10 verse 42 where he's talking to Mary and Martha and he makes it
known there's one needful thing. And that one needful thing is what Mary was doing,
(12:27):
which was sitting at the feet of Jesus listening to his words, right? Learn of me, learn of
me. Yeah. And I think in the meekness of my spirit. And I know that we have talked a
little bit about that maybe even in the last episode, but I think it bears repeating that
there's really nothing more important than to then among any of this, nothing more important
(12:50):
than a knowledge and relationship with the Godhead.
Yeah. No, I I agree, Scott. I mean, this is this is what should be our focus. This is
what should be parents focus in teaching their children. This is what should be the priest
and leaders focus in teaching their their members, especially those who are struggling,
(13:12):
but all members, if we if we just really focused on our relationship with the father and knew
our relationship to him and folks in our relationship with the savior and and understood how he
purchased us with his blood and we we understood that relationship and then to always have
(13:37):
the Holy Ghost to be with us, Scott. I mean, this is the ultimate joy of the gospel of
Jesus Christ and the ultimate purpose for the church is to help strengthen our relationship
with deity. So I we have a what 1234567 points here. We have one needful thing you mentioned
(14:02):
and then that's a and then B. And I think this is really important. In fact, I just
spoke Friday to a large group of seminary and institute teachers and wives up in Salt
Lake and I I tried to make this point, you know, that the the gospel of Jesus Christ
(14:28):
is a plan of redemption. It is not a plan of assimilation. It's just so crazy to me,
Scott, how people in the church try to assimilate or be become some be or act and not even become
I don't want to say become because I love Elder Oak's teaching on us becoming, but they
(14:54):
try to act a certain way. It's they get caught up into the performance. They get caught up
into the the actions or the appearance of what a saint is supposed to look like. It's
not about assimilation of good habits. It's not about the assimilation of good works.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan of redemption with Jesus Christ as our savior and redeemer
(15:24):
man can merit nothing of himself. The Book of Mormon teaches is all about redemption.
And if there's any commandments and if there's any covenants and if there's anything that
we're supposed to do or perform or act like, it ought to be based upon being ransomed,
(15:45):
purchased and redeemed. It's not about appearance. That's just that really bugs me. And I think
it I think it bothers a lot of people in the church too that people try to act like there's
something. It's not about it's not about that. It's not about assimilation. It is all about
(16:10):
redemption.
So if somebody's struggling with what does this mean the difference between redemption
and assimilation, I think we understand redemption. But how would you define then I think you've
done it, but how would you define it maybe a little more succinctly? What does this mean
assimilation?
Well, it's just again, it's just people are trying to assimilate good habits and they
(16:33):
think that the gospel of Jesus Christ is an accumulation or an assimilation or developing
a certain quality of life or how you live.
It's not about it's now I know that's important and I know that that will come out of it that
(16:54):
those are the fruits maybe those are the fruits of redemption. But it's it's just so sad.
I watched some stupid ridiculous show the other night about Mormons and it was on it
was on ABC about a Mormon family and oh, Scott, I couldn't I couldn't even watch it because
(17:17):
it was just so it really bothered me. Anyway, there are just so many who are going through
the motions and they see they see it as a as a they try to be cultural Mormons and it
reminds me you know I I bad I didn't baptize but I I worked with a young man in Minnesota
(17:44):
who was really impressive at the University of Minnesota and anyway he was a young adult
and I was the Institute Director there and and he was a bartender and had lived a kind
of a hard life and and he got baptized. He was baptized after getting something of a
(18:08):
testimony and but he he didn't quit his job right away and and he went to church and he
was for really trying hard to be a good Latter-day Saint. I remember him coming into my office
once and saying, you know, Brother Murphy, I just don't think this is for me. I just
don't think this is for me because I I know I'm judged because I'm a bartender and because
(18:34):
I lived and I just this this is the culture just isn't for me and I remember saying to
him and I really felt the spirit of the Lord. I remember this and he remembers this by the
way. He looked he looked me up about I don't know six seven years ago. He tracked me down
(18:58):
and at the Institute here in Orem and told me that he had been a bishop. Oh wow. He's
been a bishop and he's really strong in the church and anyway, he told me the impact of
this moment when I felt the spirit of the Lord and I said to him, Bill, just don't focus
(19:20):
on the culture. Just focus on the doctor and that's assimilation. The culture is the
assimilation. Just don't don't don't focus on that. Right. Just focus on the doctrine.
Yeah. Who is God? Yeah. And who am I? And what is my relationship with the father with
(19:43):
the son and with the Holy Ghost? Just focus on that. And don't worry about that other
stuff. Well, he did. He did and he became a great Latter-day Saint. Anyway, he's done.
He's been very successful in them very well in and out of the church. I think it's important
(20:06):
that we that we really understand what it means. The difference between assimilation
and redemption. Right. So when we talk about assimilation, what were I just looked it up
and the definition, Merriam-Webster definition, assimilation refers to the process through
which individuals and groups of differing different differing heritages acquire the basic habits,
(20:31):
attitudes and mode of life of an embracing culture. Well, there you go. That's it. Just
focus on the doctrine and quit trying to fit in and quit trying to be like everybody else.
Be yourself. Yeah. Be yourself and enjoy. And honestly, Scott, this is the great thing
(20:53):
about the gospel to me, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is that I can individually,
personally, I can have a relationship with my Heavenly Father, with my Savior and Redeemer
and with the Holy Ghost. And really, I know, I know the church is important. I know it's
(21:14):
a vehicle that carries the gospel to all the world and it has really important roles in
the work of salvation and exaltation and in caring for the poor and helping to create
eternal families and then doing missionary work. I understand that. However, trying to
fit in is, I think, the quickest way to find yourself getting out or, you know, just feeling
(21:43):
like you want to leave. And I, I just focus on the relationship with deity and just see
if the gospel of Jesus Christ, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ can help you more with
your in your relationship with the Godhead. I mean, just the, just the very fact that
you know, because of the first vision that the father and the son are separate and distinct
(22:10):
should do something for your relationship with deity, right? Knowing how to receive and
respond and, and follow the Holy Ghost, that should help you in your relationship with
deity. Those lessons of the character of God, the mission and atonement of Jesus Christ
(22:37):
and how the Holy Ghost works and how we can receive Him in our lives, Scott. Wow, there's,
there's no other church or religion that can help you more in your relationship with deity
than the restored church of Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost.
Yeah. You just got the whole thing. You just absolutely caught the whole thing, right? Our
(23:01):
relationship with deity administered to us through the spirit of the Holy Ghost, everything
that you just said, that's what it is. That's what it is. And it's through that that we
gain and receive the blessings that are promised to us by faithfulness and Heavenly Father's
church in the gospel. And that's redemption. Right. That's redemption, salvation, exaltation,
(23:30):
all in one. Right. And it's not about assimilation or fitting in to a culture. Right. That that
will just come naturally, but people should not worry about that or work at that even.
It's just, well, so then there, here's the other side of that too, you know, so so many
(23:51):
of us and I think all of us, maybe some of us at least to a degree have felt this assimilation
poll where we have felt like a need, I need to assimilate, I need to be more like this
or them or whatever. But then there's the other side of that where that call or that
what what seems to be a poll of assimilation is really a turn off for a lot of people too.
(24:17):
Yeah. In fact, that's that's one of the things that can turn a lot of people away. Is that
very thing. But again, either way, what's missing in either one of those two scenarios,
the thing that's missing is the desire and ability to have that relationship with deity
and make that first. Yeah, that's what's missing. That's good. Yeah. So you know, if
(24:39):
you're going to try to fit in or try to be somebody, try to be yourself and try to focus
on your personal relationship with with the Godhead and try to become like Jesus. You
know, it is about becoming. It's about improving. It's about progressing. It's about growth.
(25:04):
It's about being a saint. I I understand all of that and there is there is a culture in
the church, but that's not the that shouldn't be the focus. That's that'll just come naturally
as you live the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But the reason I live the Gospel of Jesus Christ
(25:24):
is so that I can have a relationship with the deity and I think try to help others to
have a relationship with their with their Heavenly Father and to feel his love for them.
That's what it's about. And and his love for them is best evidence and manifest through
the atonement of his son of his son. Yeah. And it all comes right back to that every
(25:48):
time. That's what it is all about. That should that should be our focus. I just people go
to church. I'm sure for a lot of different reasons. I go to church. I like the fellowship.
But I I think I'm a little bit of an introvert and and you know, it's not it's not what really
(26:11):
motivates me is the social part of the church. I think I think the reason I go to church
and I really think the reason we should all go to church is to worship and being a member
of the true church of Jesus Christ is most valuable to me because it teaches me how and
(26:34):
who especially who and why and what it answers all those questions about who and what why
and how I worship. Yeah. It's about worship. You know, and our relationship in rooms of
recovery and alcoholics anonymous. And one of the principles that we talk about is we
(27:00):
try there is a principle that we say we practice principles before personalities. You know,
and I think that that's one of the things that can trip us up in the church through the culture
is it's you know, we can see it as personalities. We can see it as culture. We can we can term
it just about anything we want to term it. But the principle is here is is that we are
(27:24):
redeemed. We are ransomed and all through Jesus Christ, right? And that's our the whole
purpose of the church is to bring us to him so that we can more fully put on so that we
can fully put on the Atonement of Jesus Christ and return to become heirs joined heirs with
him in our Heavenly Father's Kingdom. So there's there's that but there is a culture
(27:47):
that evolves around it and it's necessary. You mentioned that we have fellowship. I love
the fellowship to sometimes and sometimes I really don't. Yeah. To be honest, but but
what I always really love is the relationship and the feelings that come from fostering
and developing and continuing to feed that relationship that comes to me through my with
(28:11):
my Heavenly Father. And so principles before personalities, if I get caught up in the culture,
that's the personality and I can be in trouble. Yeah, I love that principles before personality
and and I'm saying Scott, doctrine before culture. Yeah, right. Focus on the doctrine.
(28:32):
I know there's a certain way we need to do things. I know there are policies and procedures
and details that need to be followed. Right in in administering, for example, the the ordinance
of the sacrament for sure. There's one prayer. Yeah, it needs to be word perfect. Yeah. And
(28:55):
those those kinds of details and procedures are really important, right? Absolutely. But
there it's the doctrine that redeems us. It is and if people would when you read the scriptures,
focus more upon, for example, I whatever you're reading this week, whatever chapter in any
(29:23):
book of scripture or section in the doctrine and covenants, any scripture that you're reading,
what I have, I think just habitually train myself to do Scott is I look for the character
of God. I'm looking to strengthen my relationship with God as I read the scriptures. I am not
(29:45):
reading the scriptures any longer to try to find which church is true or which church
isn't true. Or what should I do about this or what should I do about that? Although I'm
not saying those are those aren't wrong reasons to read the scriptures. But what attracts
me most in the in in the verses and chapters and sections I read in the scriptures is what
(30:08):
can I learn about my Heavenly Father, his character, his attributes and perfections,
what can I learn about my savior? What can I learn about the Holy Ghost? And how can
I strengthen my relationship with them? That is the number one thing I look for as I read
(30:29):
scripture. And I know there's lots of other reasons to read scripture. So I think looking
for that and training our minds to look for that. And every time I read something about
the Father, the Son or the Holy Ghost in scriptures, man, it kind of perks me up.
(30:50):
And I really I really pay attention to it. So I guess what we're saying is it all comes
down. Your membership in the church really all comes down to this one needful thing,
which isn't a relationship. You talked about the character attributes
and perfections of God about being one of the things that you're looking for when you're
(31:14):
studying scriptures, Dave. Well, if we go back several episodes, many episodes ago, where
we talked about faith and we talked about faith in the name of Jesus Christ and all
of that. What you're doing as you're as you're saying all that is you're developing a deeper
faith. Right. Because even, you know, we read about that in the lectures on faith, right?
(31:35):
We really must in order for us to have the kind of faith that we need, we really must
understand the attributes, characters and perfections of God. And and so by doing that,
you're putting yourself on track to put aside the assimilation possibility and focus solely
on the redemption. Absolutely, Scott. That's that's what I'm doing. That's what I want
(32:01):
to do. Right. I I as long as there's a church run by humans who are celestial, it's not
going to be perfect. But I know God is and I choose to focus on him. Yeah. And and my
faith is based upon him. My really grounded based foundational faith is based upon my
(32:31):
understanding and knowledge of who God is, who Jesus Christ is, who the Holy Ghost is
and who am I in relation in my relation with them? That's that's the foundation. And we
build upon that foundation is elder bed and our top, you know, our foundation is Jesus
(32:52):
Christ and we build upon that foundation. It's not the church. It's the church has such
an important role. I know it's divine. I know the organization is inspired. But as long
as there's policies and as long as there's procedures and as long as there's different
(33:13):
methods and ways and means of doing things, and as long as it's organization run by to
celestial beings, God, I have a testimony of the of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter
Day Saints. But my testimony is not based upon the church as much as it's based upon
(33:39):
I know God lives Jesus is Christ. And that's all come to me through the promptings of the
Holy Ghost. And I think it's important that we talk about what you just said about, you
know, our leaders are not infallible, you know, and all that stuff too. But I think
it's also important that we put the mirror in front of our own face, right? It's important
that we realize true that, hey, I have imperfections to so my response to something, I better
(34:06):
question that first, because, you know, just from a sense of responsibility, where I personally
can control my own destiny, my my attitudes and the way that I approach these things,
isn't necessarily tied as much to how what somebody else does, right in the church, it's
how I respond to what some but my perception of what somebody else does. And it's important
(34:30):
that we differentiate by saying my perception because often times, my perception is inaccurate
of what I think is being said. And so if I choose to take offense, which I have done,
which I probably will again, but if I choose to take offense, then is that on them? Or
is that on me? And I really need to not let myself off the hook by saying, hey, the church
(34:53):
is infallible. It is. And I need to understand it is. But so am I. And I need to understand
my own infall in how would you say that infallibility? Or whatever I need to understand that about
myself as well because you know if I don't agree with something or something
happens or something changes and I've been comfortable in my warm comfortable
(35:17):
experience and then something changes is that about me or is that about the
church and I need to know trust me Scott you have not only been offended oh
have offended oh Dave I am constantly aware absolutely that's true for all I
know it is I know it is about looking in the mirror yeah you know we've all
(35:41):
been offended and we've all offended yeah I mean that's just the reality of being
a member of an organization yeah even even if it's divine yeah you know we're
we're not if you look at doctrine comes section 76 I remember one religion
(36:01):
teacher who I have a ton of respect for he he pointed out that the name of the
church according to doctrine come to section 76 and the celestial kingdom
will be the church of the firstborn that'll be the name of the church but
that's the celestial church we're not there yet we have we have so many so
(36:24):
many weaknesses and so many flaws and so many insufficiencies that the church is
progressing the church is evolving the church is always changing the gospel
Jesus Christ doesn't change right and the doctrine the doctrine does right
yep to be specific God is unchangeable right the redemption and the plan of
(36:50):
redemption right there's no tweaks there's no tweaks or backups or any
changes in that plan and that's where I choose to focus my testimony and my
faith I don't have my faith based on policies and procedures my my faith is
(37:16):
in the the Godhead and my my love and trust in them so I just that's that's
what it comes down to so I you know we could talk again about our identity I
that's Roman numeral number C under this part of the outline constant
(37:38):
companionship of the Holy Ghost by the way that's a completely unique term to
the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints quote constant companionship of
the Holy Ghost nobody else talks about constant companionship of the Holy Ghost
in any other church or religion that that appears one time in the scriptures
in doctrine come in section 121 and we believe he's our constant companion if
(38:02):
you have the gift of the Holy Ghost he is our constant companion I take that
pretty literally Scott and as we've talked about before on here I used to
I used to believe as a young missionary it was really hard to get the spirit
really easy to lose the spirit I'm completely flip-flopped on that it's
(38:23):
really hard for me to lose the spirit and it's really easy for me to get him
back I know he wants to be with me I know he seeks and desires to be with me
he wants to help me and I have to really be stubborn and insolent to do to
(38:43):
really lose him to to brush him off and not not follow him I I'm sure that you
know my life's evolved and changed as well and that's just where I'm at in my
life Roman numeral number E our ability to worship the Father Son and the Holy
(39:04):
Ghost I've all deepened in my mind and my heart have been strengthened because
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I know what it means to
invoke the name of Jesus Christ I know the difference between having faith in
Jesus and having faith in the name of Jesus I've learned that that's been a
(39:28):
much of that's been an important part of my study of the gospel is the
difference between faith in in Jesus and faith in the name of Jesus and it's
pretty clear in the scriptures that were redeemed by faith in the name of
Jesus Christ which includes his covenants his ordinances anyway number
(39:54):
and earned not number but F in joint confidence in the presence of God and
knowing by covenant my standing before him as a joint heir with Christ oh man
that's a that's a temple line right there because of the house of the Lord
and the ordinances in the house of the Lord Scott we have a special relationship
(40:20):
with God we have president Nelson said a special love with him a special
relationship with him because of Hesed the Hebrew word Hesed which there's no
really English equivalent to translate except maybe has Tyndale translated it
(40:42):
into loving kindness this loving tenderness this this special binding
a father's love yeah that we have with with the father right because of entering
into covenants with him right I read something there they said God loves all
(41:06):
of his children the same now I know God loves all his children but believe me
not all of them are in the same standing and I'm not judging or condemning
anyone I'm just I'm just saying that it's true for parents all parents with
(41:28):
children at different times in your family life there are some children who
you just feel closer to than others yeah and it has and it's not based on whether
you love them or not no you you you do love them and you love all of them and
you love them unconditionally but it doesn't mean that you feel the same
(41:53):
relationship with them you know what I mean oh totally yeah totally and this is
an important I think concept for us to to kind of understand because you know in
the past we have talked about how our relationships are similar to with God or
similar to our relationships with fathers here I mean we have we have that
understanding of family relationships because of the experience we get to have
(42:16):
here and I and I get that I have kids Deb and I have seven children we have
sixteen grandchildren and you know we do love them all the same we'd go to the
wall for any single one of them but but again depending on their walk in life
depending on just a lot of different things those relationships are sometimes
(42:39):
a little more trying if I dare say that you know sometimes they're a little
more difficult a little more tense than other times and it's not because of the
way I feel that hasn't changed but but but maybe it has more to do with what I
see as potential that's not being realized right and I think that that may be
part of our heavenly father's experience to to to know by covenant that you are a
(43:04):
joint heir with Christ right that you've taken upon yourself the name yeah really
I mean it's just so easy to say that but that is just so deep of a thought and
doctrine Scott to to know what it means to take upon yourself the name of Jesus
(43:26):
Christ as a joint heir with Christ a joint heir Paul talks about that you
know in the Romans chapter 8 you know he says something like this I'm just
paraphrasing the Spirit speaks to our spirit the spirit bears witness that we
(43:47):
can cry out Abba father daddy that we have this kind of a we have a relationship
a close relationship and and that we are heirs and if heirs then joint heirs I'm
gonna look that up sorry Romans chapter 8 I just that's what I think it comes
(44:10):
down to and we talk about a covenant relationship and it's clear that the
early church understood this and that the role of ordinances and covenants it's
in Romans chapter 8 verse 14 through 17 Scott you want to read those yeah you
(44:32):
bet for as many as are led by the Spirit of God they are the sons of God for you
have not received the Spirit of bondage again to fear but you have received the
Spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba father the Spirit itself bears witness
unto our spirits that we are the children of God and if children then heirs heirs
(44:53):
of God and joint heirs with Christ if so be that we suffer with him that we may
also be glorified together I love that what do you love about that every
everything about it is what I love you know I've been reading again recently in
(45:15):
King Benjamin you know in and Mosiah chapter 8 you know where they took upon
them his name and they became his sons and daughters
five part of his family Mosiah 5 part of his family you know they became part of
Christ's family by taking upon them his name and I just love that because you
(45:38):
know through that through I mean we again going back many many episodes go
we talked about what's in the name you know and what that what entitlements come
just from having a certain name the entitlements that come by taking upon us
the name of Christ there's no promises that can out that can outshine those
promises they're just not there and to even put it that way seems a little bit
(46:02):
you know I don't know irreverent to even mention it that way but but there are
no there are no promises greater than that yeah well you know all the human
family Scott let's yeah let's just talk through this for a minute all the human
family are sons and daughters of God right spirit yeah spirit sons and
daughters of God but being a spirit son and daughter of God is not the same
(46:27):
thing as being a covenant son or daughter of God and the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints is all about being a covenant spiritual not just
spirit covenant spiritual child of God through Christ by the covenants and
(46:49):
ordinances we receive baptism priesthood house of the Lord we become joint heirs
with Christ and enter into the presence as covenant children of God and that's
(47:09):
what Paul's really referring to here is it's not it's not enough just to be a
spirit son or daughter of God it's being covenant children of God right yeah
and the and the promises that are attached to that are just being of
Abraham yeah Isaac and Jacob the new and the everlasting covenant there's no
(47:32):
other there's no other church Scott that really understands the the new and
everlasting covenant like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that
ancient prophets have returned to the earth Elijah Elias Moses and others who
have restored keys priesthood keys that allow us to receive the same ordinances
(47:59):
and covenants and blessings of Abraham Isaac and Jacob that's why I choose to
stay I choose to stay because I want to be in the covenant I want to be on the
covenant path and I know that it's real I I I know that God has always that's the
(48:25):
pattern of God that it that he has not changed since Adam and Eve made covenants
with him and made sacrifice to him and throughout throughout the history of
this world it is very clear that there is a difference in being a child of
(48:46):
God and being a covenant child of God yeah and so here's some of those here's
some of those differences I'm gonna go back to mosaic chapter 5 and I'm gonna
start at towards the end of verse 6 you have spoken the words which I desired in
the covenant which you have made as a righteous covenant okay and now in verse
(49:07):
7 and now because of this covenant which he have made ye shall be called the
children of Christ his sons and his daughters for behold this day he has
spiritually begotten you for ye say unto your hearts are changed through faith on
his name therefore you're born of him and have become his sons and daughters and
I think that's wonderful but here's here's what we get from that and
(49:30):
understand oh excuse me and under this head ye are made free yeah you are made
free free from what and there is no other head where for you can be made you
have a relationship exactly free from what so you know we come here again
going back many episodes we talked about the fall of Adam and Eve and how we are
(49:51):
subject to the effects of the fall both spiritually and physically and all of
the effects that that just really separate us from being able to have
heavenly father and his spirit in our lives and last we take upon us the name
of Christ and bear his name that we become free free from what not
(50:12):
completely maybe but freer from the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve free
from the separation the spiritual death free from the torments that can come to
us physically because of the physical death sometimes even free through
free through miraculous change because of his power made available to us through
(50:33):
his atonement and through the authority which was restored all of those things
testify and free us from a fallen world yeah freedom liberty liberty I love that
Scott and that's what it's all about and spiritual did you notice the word
(50:54):
spiritual yeah in verse 7 spiritual sons and daughters of Jesus Christ because
we've taken upon ourselves his name and you know what I when I think of the
the commandment did not take upon her did not take the Lord's the Lord's the
Lord God's name in vain however that's fourth commandment is stated I think
(51:15):
about it's the covenant that they're really talking about it's not just
swearing or cursing or or how you say the name it's what you do with the name
and how you see your relationship with God and what you do with his name it's
(51:36):
just it's a really sacred part of my of my worship and my my belief and faith
Scott is is that I know that I am a covenant son of of God I'm not just a
spirit son of God I am a covenant child and son of God and there's a there's
(51:57):
another great scripture on this it just came into my mind in third Nephi so let
me let's just turn there real quick 30 5 20 I think in third Nephi chapter 20
verses 24 this is Jesus speaking by the way so this these are the words of
Christ so there really makes it even more precious 30 5 20 I'll read 24 barely I
(52:22):
say unto you yay and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after
as many as have spoken have testified of me and behold ye are the children of
the prophets ye are of the house of Israel and ye are of the covenant which
(52:43):
the father made with your fathers saying unto Abraham and in thy seed shall all
the kindreds of the earth be blessed verse 26 I love this the father having
raised me up Christ up unto you first and sent me to bless you in turning away
every one of you from his iniquities and this because ye are the children of the
(53:12):
covenant
Scott there is no place else on earth where I can be a child of the covenant
then in the church of Jesus Christ and that's what the restoration of the
gospel of Jesus Christ is all about for me it's it's really this is the heart of
(53:36):
it it's it's not about the organization it's not about it's not about I'm not
I'm not criticizing or anything else I'm not making light I'm not demeaning
anything it's not about whether whether I have the priest or I don't have the
priest is not about it's not about the organization it's not about the Relief
(53:58):
Society or young man or young women or primary it's not about a well award
counsel or it's not about the organization or all the meetings or all
the activities or all the policies or all the procedures or whether these
people can do that or these people can do this it's it's not about that to me
(54:18):
it's not about that it comes down to one thing and that is I know that I can be a
child of the covenant that's what it's about and that I'm a child not just of
God the Father I'm a spirit son of God but I'm a spiritual son of Christ born
(54:42):
again yep by the Holy Spirit yep yep and we've taken his name upon us and
every week we recovon it to always remember him and to take his name upon
us still as we keep his commandments align our will with him and all those
other things yeah and if that if that's our focus okay where are you gonna go
(55:09):
just as a reminder of John chapter 6 when Jesus had taught some doctrine to
those around him and the 12 were with him and the 12 those around him found it
hard to to accept and we're leaving and and Jesus said to his disciples he said
unto the 12 this is verse 67 in chapter 6 of John then said Jesus unto the 12 we
(55:34):
also go away and then Simon Peter answered him Lord to whom shall we go
thou hast the words of eternal life that's what it's about eternal life
amen which is to know God and Jesus Christ who he has said right and really
know them well and we could go down a long road with that as well but let's
(55:59):
just suffice it to say that it is our invitation to as we go through this week
in front of us to come to know them even deeper with even a greater commitment
in our hearts to follow our Heavenly Father's will and apply that into our
lives we're grateful for each one of you for being with us today we hope you have
(56:19):
a great week and until we're together again be well
Hey there everybody, welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, Scott
(00:21):
and David Durfey here as always. How are you David?
I'm good, so good Scott.
It's good to be with you again as always. Our listeners want to know what's happening
with your mission, Cole.
Oh well, they're in.
Papers are in, papers are our stake president sent us a screenshot from his computer that
(00:45):
said Durfee's papers are ready for assignment. So that was just on Friday I think. And so
today's Wednesday, so we hope that maybe in the next few weeks we'll have a call.
You could have a call.
(01:05):
We'll hopefully get the call this week or next week and we haven't asked to go anywhere
and in our brief, brief conversation with him.
Tell me about that conversation you had with him.
It was, well, I guess it was 45 minutes to an hour. We were in his office and just talked
(01:33):
about things and the book and his family, my family. It was just kind of an informal
really conversation and get caught up conversation. And he was very concerned about Chris and
she was with me of course.
And so he was asking her lots of questions and expressing his love and concern and it
(01:59):
was very, very, very, very sweet. He walked us out outside. Anyway, he's just so, so kind,
so cordial, so, you know, gentle and meek and humble.
So anyway, I think the only thing I told him was, and that doesn't mean that's will affect
(02:26):
the call, but I said, Elder Anderson, Chris doesn't do well in heat. You know, she hates
the hot weather and I don't know, it'd be hard for her to serve where it's really, really
hot.
And he said, well, that's, that's really good information. And I said, other than that,
(02:50):
we'll go wherever the Lord wants us to go and we'll even go there.
You know, we'll, Chris, Chris, Chris wouldn't want that. We'll go to Egypt where she had
a sunstroke and almost died. We'll go back to Egypt if that's where the Lord wants us
to go. But she, her thermometer, I think, has always been broken and she doesn't, she
(03:15):
just doesn't do well in hot temperatures.
So that's, that was our only, I think, qualifying thing that I told him. You know, we could
go on a temple mission, a proselyting mission, a MLS, that's a member leader support mission,
(03:36):
a teaching mission, a seminary institute mission. So we're excited to find out where
the Lord wants us to serve. And it'll be a wonderful experience and sacrifice and blessing.
Oh, you know how that works.
Yeah.
Sacrifice is a blessing.
Sacrifice is a blessing.
(03:57):
So we're excited to get on with that.
Yeah, that's exciting. I'm excited for your kind of, we're gonna, I'm gonna miss this
association, but it was changed. It's still great, but
Yeah, we'll pick, we'll pick it up. Maybe we'll know when you get back.
Yeah.
Well, we've been on a kind of a hot series over the last four episodes so far, Dave,
(04:19):
where we've been talking about this concept of why I choose to believe and stay in the
gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a choice. We've talked about many really kind of impactful
and important type of ideas around it, et cetera. Today, we're going to expand just
(04:40):
a little bit.
Yeah. And maybe just to begin with Scott, I've been thinking about the, all of the prophecies
about the latter days and Daniel's great prophecy and dream that he interpreted of King Nebuchadnezzar
and Daniel chapter two. And it's just, I just think it's really important for members of
(05:05):
the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to understand that, that God has promised.
I mean, I think people get a little shaky and fearful about this, that there is nothing
to fear and there's nothing to be shaky about. The gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored
in the latter days as prophesied. And this is Daniel two 44 scripture. I memorized on
(05:33):
my mission and it shall never be destroyed. This church isn't going anywhere. It doesn't
matter how many leave. It doesn't matter how many stay. It doesn't matter how many come
and go. This church isn't going anywhere. This is the kingdom of God on earth and it's
(05:54):
here to take us into the millennium to prepare the year for the second coming of Jesus Christ.
We have prophets, shears and revelators. And if there's a, if there's only a hundred of
us or a hundred million of us, it's not going anywhere. And I, I know that's true, Scott,
(06:16):
and it's just really, I think important for all of our listeners to remind themselves
of that, of that fact, that truth. We'll talk about the difference between facts and truths.
And I think that's both. It's a fact and it's the truth that the kingdom of God's not going
anywhere as prophesied. So just everyone needs to keep that in mind as we talk about
(06:39):
why some people stay. And this isn't new. This isn't new that people leave the church
and that there's a faith crisis. We do live in a day of deception. We live in a day of
great deception. It's not the same now as it was when there were all kinds of people
apostatizing as they, as they went across the plains and people stayed in Missouri and
(07:03):
people stayed in Iowa and people stayed in Nauvoo and seven of the first 12 apostles
leave the church or it's not like that. We're in a different day. It's a different circumstance.
You can't compare this generation with that generation, but there's a lot of people, no
(07:23):
doubt, who are being deceived and that's prophesied. So this is in Joseph Smith Matthew, in Joseph
Smith Matthew, in the Pearl of Great Price, verse 22, for in those days, that's these
days, the last days, there shall also arise false Christ and false prophets and shall
(07:48):
and shall show great signs and wonders in so much that if possible, they shall deceive
the very elect who are the elect according to the covenant. So people in the covenant,
the new and everlasting covenant, people who have been in the temple, people who have received
(08:09):
temple covenants, those who are in the covenant, the very elect will be deceived. So we shouldn't
be surprised or shocked by any of this. It's all been prophesied. God's in control. He
has a plan and my goodness, if people here in along the Wasatch Front or anywhere, anywhere
(08:37):
where people are having faith crisis, which is anywhere in church, really, I'm sure it's
in all countries of the of the world. But my goodness, if you could see the number of
people who are joining the church to replace those who are being deceived and leaving the
(08:57):
church, you wouldn't be wringing your hands or worried about this. I mean, there is real
growth in the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Day Saints, and by the most humble, most prepared,
most elect, most foredained of God's spirit children to really here in the last the last
(09:21):
hour, the last quarter, you know, to to help prepare the earth for the second coming. The
church is in the church has never been stronger. Scott has never been stronger. I'm not I'm
not saying strength comes in numbers. Although I know the church is experiencing real growth,
(09:42):
the real strength comes in one's witness and their testimony. President, I really say the
real strength of the church is in the individual's testimonies in the church. And that is definitely
growing. It's becoming stronger in spite of all the deception in spite of all of the different
(10:03):
attacks and programs that detract from the church and seem to be a great temptation and
test members of the church. Anyway, so though just some preliminary thoughts about that as
we as we talk about that, and I've been grateful for the positive feedback that I've received
(10:25):
personally from friends and others who listen to the podcast to say, Hey, I'm really enjoying
this this part of the podcast. So thank you for that. So let's where do we leave off,
Scott? Well, I think last time we were together, we were talking about personal experiences.
I think that, you know, that which was what we called Roman numeral to write. And then
(10:51):
we moved into our knowledge of in relationship with Godhead Roman numeral three. I think
that we touched on this a little bit, but probably where we ought to pick up today.
Yeah. Again, this is based just on a little outline that I put together. And it was I
just entitled it why I choose to believe and stay in the restored church in the restored
(11:14):
gospel of Jesus Christ. And Roman numeral number one was evidences and witnesses to personal
experiences. And now we're on three, right knowledge and relationship with the Godhead.
Yeah. So as you look at that list, Scott, I've got a B C D E F what's your and G I mean,
(11:37):
we've got a G what are your thoughts? I had a conversation recently with somebody and
we were talking a lot about things in the church. There's a lot of there's a lot of
things that comprise the church. We have the policies, we have the procedures, we have
the administrations, we have the doctrine, we have a lot of things that really when you
talk about the church that the church encompasses and envelops all of these things, right? Above
(12:04):
all of these things, this one is in my by my estimation, Dave, the most important one,
you know, and I think Jesus concurred with that. You know, we've made reference many
times to Luke chapter 10 verse 42 where he's talking to Mary and Martha and he makes it
known there's one needful thing. And that one needful thing is what Mary was doing,
(12:27):
which was sitting at the feet of Jesus listening to his words, right? Learn of me, learn of
me. Yeah. And I think in the meekness of my spirit. And I know that we have talked a
little bit about that maybe even in the last episode, but I think it bears repeating that
there's really nothing more important than to then among any of this, nothing more important
(12:50):
than a knowledge and relationship with the Godhead.
Yeah. No, I I agree, Scott. I mean, this is this is what should be our focus. This is
what should be parents focus in teaching their children. This is what should be the priest
and leaders focus in teaching their their members, especially those who are struggling,
(13:12):
but all members, if we if we just really focused on our relationship with the father and knew
our relationship to him and folks in our relationship with the savior and and understood how he
purchased us with his blood and we we understood that relationship and then to always have
(13:37):
the Holy Ghost to be with us, Scott. I mean, this is the ultimate joy of the gospel of
Jesus Christ and the ultimate purpose for the church is to help strengthen our relationship
with deity. So I we have a what 1234567 points here. We have one needful thing you mentioned
(14:02):
and then that's a and then B. And I think this is really important. In fact, I just
spoke Friday to a large group of seminary and institute teachers and wives up in Salt
Lake and I I tried to make this point, you know, that the the gospel of Jesus Christ
(14:28):
is a plan of redemption. It is not a plan of assimilation. It's just so crazy to me,
Scott, how people in the church try to assimilate or be become some be or act and not even become
I don't want to say become because I love Elder Oak's teaching on us becoming, but they
(14:54):
try to act a certain way. It's they get caught up into the performance. They get caught up
into the the actions or the appearance of what a saint is supposed to look like. It's
not about assimilation of good habits. It's not about the assimilation of good works.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan of redemption with Jesus Christ as our savior and redeemer
(15:24):
man can merit nothing of himself. The Book of Mormon teaches is all about redemption.
And if there's any commandments and if there's any covenants and if there's anything that
we're supposed to do or perform or act like, it ought to be based upon being ransomed,
(15:45):
purchased and redeemed. It's not about appearance. That's just that really bugs me. And I think
it I think it bothers a lot of people in the church too that people try to act like there's
something. It's not about it's not about that. It's not about assimilation. It is all about
(16:10):
redemption.
So if somebody's struggling with what does this mean the difference between redemption
and assimilation, I think we understand redemption. But how would you define then I think you've
done it, but how would you define it maybe a little more succinctly? What does this mean
assimilation?
Well, it's just again, it's just people are trying to assimilate good habits and they
(16:33):
think that the gospel of Jesus Christ is an accumulation or an assimilation or developing
a certain quality of life or how you live.
It's not about it's now I know that's important and I know that that will come out of it that
(16:54):
those are the fruits maybe those are the fruits of redemption. But it's it's just so sad.
I watched some stupid ridiculous show the other night about Mormons and it was on it
was on ABC about a Mormon family and oh, Scott, I couldn't I couldn't even watch it because
(17:17):
it was just so it really bothered me. Anyway, there are just so many who are going through
the motions and they see they see it as a as a they try to be cultural Mormons and it
reminds me you know I I bad I didn't baptize but I I worked with a young man in Minnesota
(17:44):
who was really impressive at the University of Minnesota and anyway he was a young adult
and I was the Institute Director there and and he was a bartender and had lived a kind
of a hard life and and he got baptized. He was baptized after getting something of a
(18:08):
testimony and but he he didn't quit his job right away and and he went to church and he
was for really trying hard to be a good Latter-day Saint. I remember him coming into my office
once and saying, you know, Brother Murphy, I just don't think this is for me. I just
don't think this is for me because I I know I'm judged because I'm a bartender and because
(18:34):
I lived and I just this this is the culture just isn't for me and I remember saying to
him and I really felt the spirit of the Lord. I remember this and he remembers this by the
way. He looked he looked me up about I don't know six seven years ago. He tracked me down
(18:58):
and at the Institute here in Orem and told me that he had been a bishop. Oh wow. He's
been a bishop and he's really strong in the church and anyway, he told me the impact of
this moment when I felt the spirit of the Lord and I said to him, Bill, just don't focus
(19:20):
on the culture. Just focus on the doctor and that's assimilation. The culture is the
assimilation. Just don't don't don't focus on that. Right. Just focus on the doctrine.
Yeah. Who is God? Yeah. And who am I? And what is my relationship with the father with
(19:43):
the son and with the Holy Ghost? Just focus on that. And don't worry about that other
stuff. Well, he did. He did and he became a great Latter-day Saint. Anyway, he's done.
He's been very successful in them very well in and out of the church. I think it's important
(20:06):
that we that we really understand what it means. The difference between assimilation
and redemption. Right. So when we talk about assimilation, what were I just looked it up
and the definition, Merriam-Webster definition, assimilation refers to the process through
which individuals and groups of differing different differing heritages acquire the basic habits,
(20:31):
attitudes and mode of life of an embracing culture. Well, there you go. That's it. Just
focus on the doctrine and quit trying to fit in and quit trying to be like everybody else.
Be yourself. Yeah. Be yourself and enjoy. And honestly, Scott, this is the great thing
(20:53):
about the gospel to me, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is that I can individually,
personally, I can have a relationship with my Heavenly Father, with my Savior and Redeemer
and with the Holy Ghost. And really, I know, I know the church is important. I know it's
(21:14):
a vehicle that carries the gospel to all the world and it has really important roles in
the work of salvation and exaltation and in caring for the poor and helping to create
eternal families and then doing missionary work. I understand that. However, trying to
fit in is, I think, the quickest way to find yourself getting out or, you know, just feeling
(21:43):
like you want to leave. And I, I just focus on the relationship with deity and just see
if the gospel of Jesus Christ, the restored gospel of Jesus Christ can help you more with
your in your relationship with the Godhead. I mean, just the, just the very fact that
you know, because of the first vision that the father and the son are separate and distinct
(22:10):
should do something for your relationship with deity, right? Knowing how to receive and
respond and, and follow the Holy Ghost, that should help you in your relationship with
deity. Those lessons of the character of God, the mission and atonement of Jesus Christ
(22:37):
and how the Holy Ghost works and how we can receive Him in our lives, Scott. Wow, there's,
there's no other church or religion that can help you more in your relationship with deity
than the restored church of Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost.
Yeah. You just got the whole thing. You just absolutely caught the whole thing, right? Our
(23:01):
relationship with deity administered to us through the spirit of the Holy Ghost, everything
that you just said, that's what it is. That's what it is. And it's through that that we
gain and receive the blessings that are promised to us by faithfulness and Heavenly Father's
church in the gospel. And that's redemption. Right. That's redemption, salvation, exaltation,
(23:30):
all in one. Right. And it's not about assimilation or fitting in to a culture. Right. That that
will just come naturally, but people should not worry about that or work at that even.
It's just, well, so then there, here's the other side of that too, you know, so so many
(23:51):
of us and I think all of us, maybe some of us at least to a degree have felt this assimilation
poll where we have felt like a need, I need to assimilate, I need to be more like this
or them or whatever. But then there's the other side of that where that call or that
what what seems to be a poll of assimilation is really a turn off for a lot of people too.
(24:17):
Yeah. In fact, that's that's one of the things that can turn a lot of people away. Is that
very thing. But again, either way, what's missing in either one of those two scenarios,
the thing that's missing is the desire and ability to have that relationship with deity
and make that first. Yeah, that's what's missing. That's good. Yeah. So you know, if
(24:39):
you're going to try to fit in or try to be somebody, try to be yourself and try to focus
on your personal relationship with with the Godhead and try to become like Jesus. You
know, it is about becoming. It's about improving. It's about progressing. It's about growth.
(25:04):
It's about being a saint. I I understand all of that and there is there is a culture in
the church, but that's not the that shouldn't be the focus. That's that'll just come naturally
as you live the Gospel of Jesus Christ. But the reason I live the Gospel of Jesus Christ
(25:24):
is so that I can have a relationship with the deity and I think try to help others to
have a relationship with their with their Heavenly Father and to feel his love for them.
That's what it's about. And and his love for them is best evidence and manifest through
the atonement of his son of his son. Yeah. And it all comes right back to that every
(25:48):
time. That's what it is all about. That should that should be our focus. I just people go
to church. I'm sure for a lot of different reasons. I go to church. I like the fellowship.
But I I think I'm a little bit of an introvert and and you know, it's not it's not what really
(26:11):
motivates me is the social part of the church. I think I think the reason I go to church
and I really think the reason we should all go to church is to worship and being a member
of the true church of Jesus Christ is most valuable to me because it teaches me how and
(26:34):
who especially who and why and what it answers all those questions about who and what why
and how I worship. Yeah. It's about worship. You know, and our relationship in rooms of
recovery and alcoholics anonymous. And one of the principles that we talk about is we
(27:00):
try there is a principle that we say we practice principles before personalities. You know,
and I think that that's one of the things that can trip us up in the church through the culture
is it's you know, we can see it as personalities. We can see it as culture. We can we can term
it just about anything we want to term it. But the principle is here is is that we are
(27:24):
redeemed. We are ransomed and all through Jesus Christ, right? And that's our the whole
purpose of the church is to bring us to him so that we can more fully put on so that we
can fully put on the Atonement of Jesus Christ and return to become heirs joined heirs with
him in our Heavenly Father's Kingdom. So there's there's that but there is a culture
(27:47):
that evolves around it and it's necessary. You mentioned that we have fellowship. I love
the fellowship to sometimes and sometimes I really don't. Yeah. To be honest, but but
what I always really love is the relationship and the feelings that come from fostering
and developing and continuing to feed that relationship that comes to me through my with
(28:11):
my Heavenly Father. And so principles before personalities, if I get caught up in the culture,
that's the personality and I can be in trouble. Yeah, I love that principles before personality
and and I'm saying Scott, doctrine before culture. Yeah, right. Focus on the doctrine.
(28:32):
I know there's a certain way we need to do things. I know there are policies and procedures
and details that need to be followed. Right in in administering, for example, the the ordinance
of the sacrament for sure. There's one prayer. Yeah, it needs to be word perfect. Yeah. And
(28:55):
those those kinds of details and procedures are really important, right? Absolutely. But
there it's the doctrine that redeems us. It is and if people would when you read the scriptures,
focus more upon, for example, I whatever you're reading this week, whatever chapter in any
(29:23):
book of scripture or section in the doctrine and covenants, any scripture that you're reading,
what I have, I think just habitually train myself to do Scott is I look for the character
of God. I'm looking to strengthen my relationship with God as I read the scriptures. I am not
(29:45):
reading the scriptures any longer to try to find which church is true or which church
isn't true. Or what should I do about this or what should I do about that? Although I'm
not saying those are those aren't wrong reasons to read the scriptures. But what attracts
me most in the in in the verses and chapters and sections I read in the scriptures is what
(30:08):
can I learn about my Heavenly Father, his character, his attributes and perfections,
what can I learn about my savior? What can I learn about the Holy Ghost? And how can
I strengthen my relationship with them? That is the number one thing I look for as I read
(30:29):
scripture. And I know there's lots of other reasons to read scripture. So I think looking
for that and training our minds to look for that. And every time I read something about
the Father, the Son or the Holy Ghost in scriptures, man, it kind of perks me up.
(30:50):
And I really I really pay attention to it. So I guess what we're saying is it all comes
down. Your membership in the church really all comes down to this one needful thing,
which isn't a relationship. You talked about the character attributes
and perfections of God about being one of the things that you're looking for when you're
(31:14):
studying scriptures, Dave. Well, if we go back several episodes, many episodes ago, where
we talked about faith and we talked about faith in the name of Jesus Christ and all
of that. What you're doing as you're as you're saying all that is you're developing a deeper
faith. Right. Because even, you know, we read about that in the lectures on faith, right?
(31:35):
We really must in order for us to have the kind of faith that we need, we really must
understand the attributes, characters and perfections of God. And and so by doing that,
you're putting yourself on track to put aside the assimilation possibility and focus solely
on the redemption. Absolutely, Scott. That's that's what I'm doing. That's what I want
(32:01):
to do. Right. I I as long as there's a church run by humans who are celestial, it's not
going to be perfect. But I know God is and I choose to focus on him. Yeah. And and my
faith is based upon him. My really grounded based foundational faith is based upon my
(32:31):
understanding and knowledge of who God is, who Jesus Christ is, who the Holy Ghost is
and who am I in relation in my relation with them? That's that's the foundation. And we
build upon that foundation is elder bed and our top, you know, our foundation is Jesus
(32:52):
Christ and we build upon that foundation. It's not the church. It's the church has such
an important role. I know it's divine. I know the organization is inspired. But as long
as there's policies and as long as there's procedures and as long as there's different
(33:13):
methods and ways and means of doing things, and as long as it's organization run by to
celestial beings, God, I have a testimony of the of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter
Day Saints. But my testimony is not based upon the church as much as it's based upon
(33:39):
I know God lives Jesus is Christ. And that's all come to me through the promptings of the
Holy Ghost. And I think it's important that we talk about what you just said about, you
know, our leaders are not infallible, you know, and all that stuff too. But I think
it's also important that we put the mirror in front of our own face, right? It's important
that we realize true that, hey, I have imperfections to so my response to something, I better
(34:06):
question that first, because, you know, just from a sense of responsibility, where I personally
can control my own destiny, my my attitudes and the way that I approach these things,
isn't necessarily tied as much to how what somebody else does, right in the church, it's
how I respond to what some but my perception of what somebody else does. And it's important
(34:30):
that we differentiate by saying my perception because often times, my perception is inaccurate
of what I think is being said. And so if I choose to take offense, which I have done,
which I probably will again, but if I choose to take offense, then is that on them? Or
is that on me? And I really need to not let myself off the hook by saying, hey, the church
(34:53):
is infallible. It is. And I need to understand it is. But so am I. And I need to understand
my own infall in how would you say that infallibility? Or whatever I need to understand that about
myself as well because you know if I don't agree with something or something
happens or something changes and I've been comfortable in my warm comfortable
(35:17):
experience and then something changes is that about me or is that about the
church and I need to know trust me Scott you have not only been offended oh
have offended oh Dave I am constantly aware absolutely that's true for all I
know it is I know it is about looking in the mirror yeah you know we've all
(35:41):
been offended and we've all offended yeah I mean that's just the reality of being
a member of an organization yeah even even if it's divine yeah you know we're
we're not if you look at doctrine comes section 76 I remember one religion
(36:01):
teacher who I have a ton of respect for he he pointed out that the name of the
church according to doctrine come to section 76 and the celestial kingdom
will be the church of the firstborn that'll be the name of the church but
that's the celestial church we're not there yet we have we have so many so
(36:24):
many weaknesses and so many flaws and so many insufficiencies that the church is
progressing the church is evolving the church is always changing the gospel
Jesus Christ doesn't change right and the doctrine the doctrine does right
yep to be specific God is unchangeable right the redemption and the plan of
(36:50):
redemption right there's no tweaks there's no tweaks or backups or any
changes in that plan and that's where I choose to focus my testimony and my
faith I don't have my faith based on policies and procedures my my faith is
(37:16):
in the the Godhead and my my love and trust in them so I just that's that's
what it comes down to so I you know we could talk again about our identity I
that's Roman numeral number C under this part of the outline constant
(37:38):
companionship of the Holy Ghost by the way that's a completely unique term to
the Church of Jesus Christ Latter-day Saints quote constant companionship of
the Holy Ghost nobody else talks about constant companionship of the Holy Ghost
in any other church or religion that that appears one time in the scriptures
in doctrine come in section 121 and we believe he's our constant companion if
(38:02):
you have the gift of the Holy Ghost he is our constant companion I take that
pretty literally Scott and as we've talked about before on here I used to
I used to believe as a young missionary it was really hard to get the spirit
really easy to lose the spirit I'm completely flip-flopped on that it's
(38:23):
really hard for me to lose the spirit and it's really easy for me to get him
back I know he wants to be with me I know he seeks and desires to be with me
he wants to help me and I have to really be stubborn and insolent to do to
(38:43):
really lose him to to brush him off and not not follow him I I'm sure that you
know my life's evolved and changed as well and that's just where I'm at in my
life Roman numeral number E our ability to worship the Father Son and the Holy
(39:04):
Ghost I've all deepened in my mind and my heart have been strengthened because
of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints I know what it means to
invoke the name of Jesus Christ I know the difference between having faith in
Jesus and having faith in the name of Jesus I've learned that that's been a
(39:28):
much of that's been an important part of my study of the gospel is the
difference between faith in in Jesus and faith in the name of Jesus and it's
pretty clear in the scriptures that were redeemed by faith in the name of
Jesus Christ which includes his covenants his ordinances anyway number
(39:54):
and earned not number but F in joint confidence in the presence of God and
knowing by covenant my standing before him as a joint heir with Christ oh man
that's a that's a temple line right there because of the house of the Lord
and the ordinances in the house of the Lord Scott we have a special relationship
(40:20):
with God we have president Nelson said a special love with him a special
relationship with him because of Hesed the Hebrew word Hesed which there's no
really English equivalent to translate except maybe has Tyndale translated it
(40:42):
into loving kindness this loving tenderness this this special binding
a father's love yeah that we have with with the father right because of entering
into covenants with him right I read something there they said God loves all
(41:06):
of his children the same now I know God loves all his children but believe me
not all of them are in the same standing and I'm not judging or condemning
anyone I'm just I'm just saying that it's true for parents all parents with
(41:28):
children at different times in your family life there are some children who
you just feel closer to than others yeah and it has and it's not based on whether
you love them or not no you you you do love them and you love all of them and
you love them unconditionally but it doesn't mean that you feel the same
(41:53):
relationship with them you know what I mean oh totally yeah totally and this is
an important I think concept for us to to kind of understand because you know in
the past we have talked about how our relationships are similar to with God or
similar to our relationships with fathers here I mean we have we have that
understanding of family relationships because of the experience we get to have
(42:16):
here and I and I get that I have kids Deb and I have seven children we have
sixteen grandchildren and you know we do love them all the same we'd go to the
wall for any single one of them but but again depending on their walk in life
depending on just a lot of different things those relationships are sometimes
(42:39):
a little more trying if I dare say that you know sometimes they're a little
more difficult a little more tense than other times and it's not because of the
way I feel that hasn't changed but but but maybe it has more to do with what I
see as potential that's not being realized right and I think that that may be
part of our heavenly father's experience to to to know by covenant that you are a
(43:04):
joint heir with Christ right that you've taken upon yourself the name yeah really
I mean it's just so easy to say that but that is just so deep of a thought and
doctrine Scott to to know what it means to take upon yourself the name of Jesus
(43:26):
Christ as a joint heir with Christ a joint heir Paul talks about that you
know in the Romans chapter 8 you know he says something like this I'm just
paraphrasing the Spirit speaks to our spirit the spirit bears witness that we
(43:47):
can cry out Abba father daddy that we have this kind of a we have a relationship
a close relationship and and that we are heirs and if heirs then joint heirs I'm
gonna look that up sorry Romans chapter 8 I just that's what I think it comes
(44:10):
down to and we talk about a covenant relationship and it's clear that the
early church understood this and that the role of ordinances and covenants it's
in Romans chapter 8 verse 14 through 17 Scott you want to read those yeah you
(44:32):
bet for as many as are led by the Spirit of God they are the sons of God for you
have not received the Spirit of bondage again to fear but you have received the
Spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba father the Spirit itself bears witness
unto our spirits that we are the children of God and if children then heirs heirs
(44:53):
of God and joint heirs with Christ if so be that we suffer with him that we may
also be glorified together I love that what do you love about that every
everything about it is what I love you know I've been reading again recently in
(45:15):
King Benjamin you know in and Mosiah chapter 8 you know where they took upon
them his name and they became his sons and daughters
five part of his family Mosiah 5 part of his family you know they became part of
Christ's family by taking upon them his name and I just love that because you
(45:38):
know through that through I mean we again going back many many episodes go
we talked about what's in the name you know and what that what entitlements come
just from having a certain name the entitlements that come by taking upon us
the name of Christ there's no promises that can out that can outshine those
promises they're just not there and to even put it that way seems a little bit
(46:02):
you know I don't know irreverent to even mention it that way but but there are
no there are no promises greater than that yeah well you know all the human
family Scott let's yeah let's just talk through this for a minute all the human
family are sons and daughters of God right spirit yeah spirit sons and
daughters of God but being a spirit son and daughter of God is not the same
(46:27):
thing as being a covenant son or daughter of God and the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints is all about being a covenant spiritual not just
spirit covenant spiritual child of God through Christ by the covenants and
(46:49):
ordinances we receive baptism priesthood house of the Lord we become joint heirs
with Christ and enter into the presence as covenant children of God and that's
(47:09):
what Paul's really referring to here is it's not it's not enough just to be a
spirit son or daughter of God it's being covenant children of God right yeah
and the and the promises that are attached to that are just being of
Abraham yeah Isaac and Jacob the new and the everlasting covenant there's no
(47:32):
other there's no other church Scott that really understands the the new and
everlasting covenant like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that
ancient prophets have returned to the earth Elijah Elias Moses and others who
have restored keys priesthood keys that allow us to receive the same ordinances
(47:59):
and covenants and blessings of Abraham Isaac and Jacob that's why I choose to
stay I choose to stay because I want to be in the covenant I want to be on the
covenant path and I know that it's real I I I know that God has always that's the
(48:25):
pattern of God that it that he has not changed since Adam and Eve made covenants
with him and made sacrifice to him and throughout throughout the history of
this world it is very clear that there is a difference in being a child of
(48:46):
God and being a covenant child of God yeah and so here's some of those here's
some of those differences I'm gonna go back to mosaic chapter 5 and I'm gonna
start at towards the end of verse 6 you have spoken the words which I desired in
the covenant which you have made as a righteous covenant okay and now in verse
(49:07):
7 and now because of this covenant which he have made ye shall be called the
children of Christ his sons and his daughters for behold this day he has
spiritually begotten you for ye say unto your hearts are changed through faith on
his name therefore you're born of him and have become his sons and daughters and
I think that's wonderful but here's here's what we get from that and
(49:30):
understand oh excuse me and under this head ye are made free yeah you are made
free free from what and there is no other head where for you can be made you
have a relationship exactly free from what so you know we come here again
going back many episodes we talked about the fall of Adam and Eve and how we are
(49:51):
subject to the effects of the fall both spiritually and physically and all of
the effects that that just really separate us from being able to have
heavenly father and his spirit in our lives and last we take upon us the name
of Christ and bear his name that we become free free from what not
(50:12):
completely maybe but freer from the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve free
from the separation the spiritual death free from the torments that can come to
us physically because of the physical death sometimes even free through
free through miraculous change because of his power made available to us through
(50:33):
his atonement and through the authority which was restored all of those things
testify and free us from a fallen world yeah freedom liberty liberty I love that
Scott and that's what it's all about and spiritual did you notice the word
(50:54):
spiritual yeah in verse 7 spiritual sons and daughters of Jesus Christ because
we've taken upon ourselves his name and you know what I when I think of the
the commandment did not take upon her did not take the Lord's the Lord's the
Lord God's name in vain however that's fourth commandment is stated I think
(51:15):
about it's the covenant that they're really talking about it's not just
swearing or cursing or or how you say the name it's what you do with the name
and how you see your relationship with God and what you do with his name it's
(51:36):
just it's a really sacred part of my of my worship and my my belief and faith
Scott is is that I know that I am a covenant son of of God I'm not just a
spirit son of God I am a covenant child and son of God and there's a there's
(51:57):
another great scripture on this it just came into my mind in third Nephi so let
me let's just turn there real quick 30 5 20 I think in third Nephi chapter 20
verses 24 this is Jesus speaking by the way so this these are the words of
Christ so there really makes it even more precious 30 5 20 I'll read 24 barely I
(52:22):
say unto you yay and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after
as many as have spoken have testified of me and behold ye are the children of
the prophets ye are of the house of Israel and ye are of the covenant which
(52:43):
the father made with your fathers saying unto Abraham and in thy seed shall all
the kindreds of the earth be blessed verse 26 I love this the father having
raised me up Christ up unto you first and sent me to bless you in turning away
every one of you from his iniquities and this because ye are the children of the
(53:12):
covenant
Scott there is no place else on earth where I can be a child of the covenant
then in the church of Jesus Christ and that's what the restoration of the
gospel of Jesus Christ is all about for me it's it's really this is the heart of
(53:36):
it it's it's not about the organization it's not about it's not about I'm not
I'm not criticizing or anything else I'm not making light I'm not demeaning
anything it's not about whether whether I have the priest or I don't have the
priest is not about it's not about the organization it's not about the Relief
(53:58):
Society or young man or young women or primary it's not about a well award
counsel or it's not about the organization or all the meetings or all
the activities or all the policies or all the procedures or whether these
people can do that or these people can do this it's it's not about that to me
(54:18):
it's not about that it comes down to one thing and that is I know that I can be a
child of the covenant that's what it's about and that I'm a child not just of
God the Father I'm a spirit son of God but I'm a spiritual son of Christ born
(54:42):
again yep by the Holy Spirit yep yep and we've taken his name upon us and
every week we recovon it to always remember him and to take his name upon
us still as we keep his commandments align our will with him and all those
other things yeah and if that if that's our focus okay where are you gonna go
(55:09):
just as a reminder of John chapter 6 when Jesus had taught some doctrine to
those around him and the 12 were with him and the 12 those around him found it
hard to to accept and we're leaving and and Jesus said to his disciples he said
unto the 12 this is verse 67 in chapter 6 of John then said Jesus unto the 12 we
(55:34):
also go away and then Simon Peter answered him Lord to whom shall we go
thou hast the words of eternal life that's what it's about eternal life
amen which is to know God and Jesus Christ who he has said right and really
know them well and we could go down a long road with that as well but let's
(55:59):
just suffice it to say that it is our invitation to as we go through this week
in front of us to come to know them even deeper with even a greater commitment
in our hearts to follow our Heavenly Father's will and apply that into our
lives we're grateful for each one of you for being with us today we hope you have
(56:19):
a great week and until we're together again be well
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com