The Power of Unpopular Opinions and Uncomfortable Conversations with Sarah Villarreal

Episode Transcript
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Jessi Cabanin (00:04):
Hey girl, Hey, are you ready for some real
talk? If you are a femaleentrepreneur who has ever felt
like a total failure, or maybeeven a frequent flyer of
imposter syndrome, this podcastis for you. I'm your host Jesse,
a millennial business owner, boymom and creative genius helping
women bring their businessdreams to life. After 10 years
of building numerous creativebrands from the ground up, I'm

(00:26):
ready to get real about whatactually goes on behind the
scenes of building your very ownempire failure opened a brand
new mindset for me and I reallywant that for you too, because
honestly, I am just so oversociety's definition of what it
means to live a successful life.
So together, we are going tocreate and navigate a version of
success that works for you.

(00:47):
Together, we can redefinefabulous. Okay guys, welcome to
today's episode of empoweringcoffee combos. I'm Jesse, the
founder of and chief empowermentOfficer of this way to fabulous
and today I am here with Sarah,who's the creator of the
socially misguided podcast,okay, she's on a mission to
create conversations aroundtoxic society norms. Okay, so

(01:11):
you guys know how I feel aboutsociety and how much I hate it's
hold over us, right? And like,we make decisions and try like,
we just want to live our lives,right. So this conversation is
going to be super juicy. I justknow it. So before we start,
Sarah, why don't you telleverybody just like a little bit
about yourself? Maybe a quicksynopsis about your, like your
life story, and that kind of ofwhere you're at in life right

(01:32):
now.

Sarah Villareal (01:33):
Yeah, so Well, first of all, thank you so much
for having me on the show. Thisis super fun. Yeah, I'm Sarah. I
am a fashion designer turn stayat home mom. Turn podcaster. A
quick rundown on me. I movedfrom Colorado to California
after I graduated high school toget my degree in design, met my
husband out there. He was actingI was going to school. So we

(01:57):
lived out there. Did our thingmove back to Texas where both of
us have a ton of family andstarted a family. So I mean,
that was like, ages ago at thispoint. So now, I've been earlier
this year, we celebrated our 10year anniversary. We've got two
kids and we're in Houston. Soyeah, yeah.

Awesome. That's super, super awesome. And then
you started a podcast right?
When how long ago? Did you startyour podcast?

Unknown (02:22):
I started earlier this year in April. So still kind of
new ish.

Yeah, for sure.
So for backstory for you guys.
Sara and I actually met inKeisha Fitzgerald's pod squad,
we were both part of the Januarypod squad, where Keisha really
just kind of like drilled intous that like now is the time no
matter how messy it is, right?
Now's the time, just jump in,get started and figure it out
along the way. And so I thinkboth of us are kind of in that,

(02:49):
you know, new ish phase of thisis kind of what we're doing come
along with us. This is not likeus knowing everything. This is
kind of us, figuring it out aswe go and enjoying you guys like
letting you guys come on theride with us. Right? So I'm
super excited. You're here, butlike, let's just dive right in.
Okay, I'm gonna talk about yourpodcast for a minute. Okay, you
guys. It's something youabsolutely have to check out.

(03:11):
It's super powerful. I will linkit in the show notes for you
guys. So that you guys havelike, easy access to that. Okay.
But Sarah first, like yourpodcast is amazing. But I want
to know a little bit more abouthow you got here. Okay, so like,
why a podcast? Why now? Whatkind of like gave you that fire
to besides Keisha

Unknown (03:33):
was a big fire. Yeah, right.

She she gets a lot of credit for me, too.
Besides that, you know, what,what was your driving factor in,
in bringing this podcast idea

Unknown (03:44):
to life? Yeah, so it was kind of two very different
things. So first of all,selfishly, I really needed
something for me, Jesse, I don'tknow if you've ever felt this
way. But I was kind of at thatpoint where I felt very lost in
motherhood, like I had lost whoI was outside of being a mom,
truly, you know, that spark andlike what was important to me

(04:06):
and just kind of having a voiceoutside of things that
surrounded the things that hadto do with my kids. So that was
one part of it. And then theother part of it was, Do you
ever feel like you're justlooking around and like, Is this
real life? Right? Like we'relooking around and everything
from you know, racism, so runsrampant in our society. We

(04:28):
idolize celebrities that talkabout being on the verge of
starvation to fit into vintagegowns, because women are
idolized for being beautifulrather than anything else, you
know, they have to offer theright now naming names you know,
just go check out my podcast, Imay have named dropped a couple
of people. But on here, I won't.
But um, you know, it just likegot to a point where I was like,

(04:52):
Okay, there's a lot of stuffgoing on that I think is super
harmful that I think that weeither just don't realize or
it's just easier to just kind ofgo with the flow or whatever. So
instead of complaining about it,I felt like I needed to maybe be
part of like the solution for,you know, people that I have
influence over, you know, in mylife also to set an example for
my kids and hopefully maybe setthings on a better trajectory.

(05:15):
Just in general.

Yeah, for sure.
And I love how you saidsomething about like, just, it's
easier to just, you know, like,it's just easier and everybody's
so about what's easier. Andunfortunately, what happens when
things are easier, is we don'tgrow, we actually fall
backwards. And I know for a factthat there are a lot of people
that are listening to this thatare like nodding their heads
being like, Yes, I totally feelthis way. Because I don't know a

(05:41):
single mom, who didn't loseherself at some point in her
journey, right? Whether it wasright away, or whether it was
later on, you know, for mepersonally, it was pretty much
right away, I definitely had apretty bad episode of postpartum
depression. A lot of things werechanging in my life, I was
getting divorced around the timehe was turning one. I my
business basically, like I shutmy entire business down, I had

(06:05):
no idea who I was, what I wasdoing what I was meant to do.
And I definitely don't blamebeing a mom for that. But I
definitely, it has a lot to dowith that just that time in your
life, where things become alittle bit blurry. Like, you've
just you don't, you don't knowwhat you're looking at, and you
don't really know what to dowith yourself. And I think that

(06:26):
it's easy to look outward to tryto find yourself right, it's
easy to look outward for thenext best thing, or what's gonna
make me lose 20 pounds bytomorrow, or what you know,
like, it's so easy to lookoutside. And I think what really
helped me was jumping intopersonal development and looking
inside instead because like youmentioned, it is just mind

(06:47):
boggling how much we lookoutside and start idolizing
these people that likecelebrities and whatever, we
start idolizing their lives andlike all of a sudden, like we're
making ourselves feel worse,because those things are not
attainable. For most of us,those things are not even like
in our grasp. So like we endedup sabotaging ourselves, right?
And oh, completely. I don'tthink a single mom listening to

(07:09):
this or not listening to this. Idon't think a single mom could
say that they never felt thatway. At some point. I know so
many moms who are on thatjourney of finding that love,
like finding what they'resupposed to do what they're
meant to do. What fires them up.
Right. Right. I think I thinkthat's, I think that's, I think
that's like so amazing. So Ithink that a huge part of that

(07:32):
is, it's super powerful for usto recognize this. Right? And so
like, it gives you a totallydifferent perspective of life.
Am I right? Like do ya only juststart to see things through a
completely different lens. So ifyou could pick like one toxic
society norm that just likeirritates the shit out of you

(07:54):
like that is just like, these Iknow, there's probably a budget
if you have a view, that's okay,but like, what is one that just
irritates the absolute shit outof you.

Unknown (08:05):
Okay, so this is like equal parts irritation and equal
parts almost just like sadnessaround this and that is knowing
that women feel such a massivepressure to conform to these
beauty standards and to just bebeautiful in general.

Like they label it like the way that they are
labeled, like the way thatsociety is labeling beauty is
just something like, like like,it's just this term, like what
does this term mean? And itmeans something different to all
of us but instead of lookinginward to say what does beauty
mean to me? We're like well KKthinks that it means this right?

(08:48):
And in Kiki over here thinksthat beauty is this and so we're
like, oh well Kiki and KK manthat they think this like that's
what it is. And it's just suchbullshit like, why are we
idolizing all of these otherpeople for what they think it
means? Why are we not doing thework to figure out what that
means for us? Right exactly.
What else I feel like you gotlike one or two in there that

(09:09):
you're like

Unknown (09:12):
well gosh, there's so many but I kind of wanted to
expand on that because I thinkit's not only just looking at
what other people are doing butwhat we have to realize is that
one historically women havealways been valued for their
beauty not for what they come tothe table with not for you know
their contributions or how greatof a person they are not so
deeply ingrained in us and it'sstill playing out today. So not

(09:34):
only are we concerned with whatque que and Kiki are doing and
looking like but now you knowmarketing genius with a
marketing genius. That is whatit is. These companies are
profiting off of ourinsecurities and they're
inventing insecurities. And thenthey come in and say, Well,
yeah, you need to fix this, thisand this. Oh, but wait, I have

(09:56):
the solution. Okay, well, that'snot a coincidence. They are made
making billions in the process.
And we are just feeling likeshit. And you know, buying these
things buy into them. And theneach time we do that, then we're
kind of broadcasting to otherwomen like, Yeah, this is the
right way like this isimportant. So it's really
difficult. And I think that's,you know, that's one thing I

(10:18):
would talk a lot about on theshow is understanding like,
where I am accountable in thisand also where we are victims in
vessel cycle, right? Absolutely.
I

think it's great that you talk about you also
being guilty of some of thesethings. Because I think that
that's, that's real, right?
You're not out, you're not here,trying to say like, Oh, you
shouldn't do this, like, no,like, bah, bah, bah, like, we're
just as guilty. We are allguilty of those things. And to
backtrack for a second aboutwhat you said about the the
company marketing. So it isdefinitely one of the the most

(10:51):
converting tactics in marketingis absolutely recognizing a
problem that you can solve forsomeone, right? But the problem
there is that the line like thatline of like, what's appropriate
or what's not becomes reallyblurry for them, right? So
obviously, there are obesepeople who may need to lose

(11:11):
weight, that's just a factthat's not a, that's more of a
like a health fact, that's notlike a like, Oh, you're fat,
like that's like a listen towhere you're at right now. Your
obesity is a medical condition,you need to lose some weight.
That's one thing, right? Butthen they're taking it past that
line. And they're saying, well,like, Oh, you're fat, I can fix
that. And you're like, and nowall of a sudden, even if you're
not obese, even if you're maybeslightly overweight, or whatever

(11:34):
it is, now, all of a sudden, inyour head, you have that
problem. Right? Right, actuallymarketing to the people who
medically might need that kindof help, you're utilizing the
people who need medical help, tobasically put that lie into the
minds of the rest of us, right.
And so the only thing I'll sayabout that, though, is that, as

(11:55):
humans, we're accountable forourselves, too, right. So like,
if that's what they're doing,I'm not saying it's right, by
any means not excusing it. Butit's also up to us to build that
boundary between ourselves andmarketing tactics to be able to
say, wow, like that, that'sreally extreme, but I'm not
going to let that bother me orthat I'm going to, you know,

(12:16):
like, I know that that's not,they're not talking to me or
whatever. Like, it's also ourresponsibility to speak up about
it and say, like, like, What thehell, but it's also our
responsibility to not allowourselves to take it that way.
Right. So it's like, definitely,it's this really hard like this
really hard balance. But I mean,for how long? Has it been a

(12:36):
terminology where, you know, inmarketing or in business, Sex
sells, right? How long has thatbeen through analogy? And how
effed up is that, like how effedup and now it's like, that was
maybe the term 20 years ago, andnow that nude that term, they've
just taken like the word sex outof it, and now it's all this
just like, like beauty. Nowbeauty is now that ugly word in

(12:59):
that sentence, because theythink it sounds better because
it does,

Unknown (13:03):
it does. It like it sounds a lot of us more
innocent.

That's a good point. But that's the point.
Like they're labeling it,they're, they're choosing the
label, instead of us choosingthe label, which is just effed
up for left up. And I think thisis I think this is huge, too.
Because, you know, I know, itaffects me personally, right?
You have to look in the mirrorevery day, and all these lies
that you hear on social mediaand everywhere, right? These
lies get ingrained in your head.
So I know this affects mepersonally, I you know, I've

(13:30):
been doing a ton of work withpersonal development, I'm
getting married. We're allhuman, right? Well, here, we
will look in the mirror one dayand be like, Oh my God, you
could like you could lose, lose20 pounds. And then you have to
reframe it and say like, Okay,we need to make our health a
priority a little bit more, andmove on from there, right. I
know, a ton of listeners arealso going to vibe with this,
because I feel like as women,this is just something

(13:53):
unfortunately, that wasingrained in us as kids, right?
Like, oh, yeah, darts so young,and it is so hard to just like,
get rid of that. Right. So let'sdive even deeper. Okay, can you
give me a super, super specificexample of maybe a time that
this affected you? Oh, beautystandards?

Unknown (14:18):
I mean, you know, probably motherhood is probably
the best example. Because I knowfor a lot of us our bodies
change, right? Yeah. And whenyou look around, and whether
you're a celebrity or whetheryou're just an average Joe
Schmo, there's that messaging ofget your body back, make sure
you bounce back, there's solittle focus on how you're
feeling and how you're doing andhow you're coping with this

(14:39):
massive life change. And then,of course, there's so much focus
on the baby, understandably, butthe focus on the mom goes back
to how does she look? Does sheconform to the standards because
we all know that society saysThere is one body type that's
acceptable, and that's thinness,which again, creates all kinds
of other horrible outcomes. Forpeople that don't exist in thin

(15:02):
bodies, you know, and then weequate health with being thin.
That's not right either. That'snot accurate. But I think
motherhood accepting, you know,I've had, I've had two kids, I
had two C sections, and then Inursed both my babies. So my
body did change a little bit. Myboobs are definitely not as
perky as they used to be. And,you know, I mean, they look

(15:23):
different. And that was reallythat my stomach like everything,
it was really kind of hard to gofrom. I guess having a body that
I think we all have body imageissues, but from showing you
right, but from going from abody that I was more okay with
to something that I felt like,Oh, my God, this is so foreign.

(15:43):
And like, I don't really likethis, you know. So that's part
of

why we feel lost, right? Because we don't even
recognize because we didn't evenrealize how much we like labeled
ourselves based on our bodyuntil your body changed. And
then all of a sudden, you'relike, where am I

Unknown (16:01):
aging the same way, right? Like you, you pick
yourself apart in your 20s. Andthen you get in your 30s. And
you look at a picture ofyourself in your 20s. And you
think, Man, I wish I appreciatedwhat I had. But again, that goes
back to like this vilificationof, you know, aging, we're
taught aging is bad, we'retaught wrinkles are bad, like
aging is a privilege, actually,it really should have nothing to

(16:21):
do with the way that we look.
Because really, at the end ofthe day, that isn't important.
But those aren't the messages weare told. I mean from childhood,
we all understand that beautyespecially for a woman is a very
air quotes important aspect ofher life, right? And it's really
sad. It robs us robs us of, youknow, living in the moment with

(16:42):
our kids. How many moms have youknown that have said, I really
want to go swimming with mykids, but I didn't because I
didn't feel good in a bathingsuit. That is so sad. These are
precious moments that will neverYeah, no, I mean, I just raised
my both of us, right? I mean, atsome point or another, so it
just robs you of like, yourexperiences, your resources, you

(17:02):
know, your time, your money,like your mental energy, it just
we just put way too much focuson that. And again, I mean, I
just It infuriates me. And thenit also makes me just really
sad.

Absolutely. And I kind of think that like, well,
going back to talking aboutKiki. So I think it's it's also
become this really sad level ofbeauty being tied to success,
right? So if you're not thisbeautiful, if you're only a five

(17:37):
on the beauty level, I don'teven know what level we're on.
But like, if you're only a five,you're not successful, if you're
10 Now you're successful nowwhat the actual hell? Does that
have anything to do with beingsuccessful? Right? Like, how is
that even? Like, how is thateven part of the scale of what
makes you successful? Or whatmakes anyone successful? And

(17:58):
also, who the hell is anyoneelse to tell me how successful I
am based on how I look? So thereason I bring this up is
because I was talking to someonerecently about their branding
shoot. And so before theirbranding photoshoot, you know,
they came to me and they sent mea bunch of their, like pictures
of their outfits on their bed,you know, and like, what do you

(18:19):
think? What do you think right?
And the number one thing Ialways tell people is number one
rule is you need to feelcomfortable if you never wear
glitter stilettos and a hot pinkblazer do not bring that job so
true. Those people will say Isaw this picture on your website
and she's wearing a hot pinkblazer with really cute shoes
and I'm thinking okay, well thatwas her like is that you will

(18:41):
know I don't really wear pinkthen why are we even having this
conversation?

Unknown (18:47):
Why and it will come across to and your confidence
right? Like that's going tocapture a photo that you feel oh
not you know, you don't feelright in your skin trying to be
someone else. Absolutely. I alsounderstand the pressure to want
to think like okay, well yes,that is success. That is beauty.
I guess let me aspire to bethat. So

right and that kind of comes down to like if
you never wear that, okay, solike I usually tell people you
know, I want you to becomfortable. Whatever dressed up
is for you go like a half a stephigher than that. Half a step
meaning like maybe your makeupsa little bit more dramatic or
maybe you have fancy earrings ormaybe whatever Don't be a

(19:27):
completely different person.
Just treat yourself to beingslightly nicer than what so if
you wear a sweater every day andjeans and a cute t shirt t shirt
is what is what's like one stepup for you go for you rock that
let's rock that becauseotherwise Yeah, how are you
being authentic if you arebasically trying to turn
yourself into someone elseright? So I'm curious from you
so like I am very I'm a verylike T shirt and jeans kind of

(19:48):
gal right? And you know from mybranding shoot, I am a very
happy person obviously. I wore Ihad a happy place or I had a hot
pink backdrop. All these thingsand I just I had I had glitter
sneakers for God's sakes, right?
Like I was like this is so yourguy. Yeah, yeah. But when other

(20:09):
people come in so you So you dida branding shoot recently, too,
right? How would how was thatexperience for you from a
standpoint of battling thoseinner thoughts of like, what you
should be wearing versus whatyou want to be wearing? This is
I'm fresh on my brain because Ihad a brand new session this
morning. And so I'm like, nowI'm really curious with those

(20:30):
standards. And like, I know thatit's a constant battle, whether
whether no matter who you are,it's a constant battle, I want
to know what that process waslike for you.

Unknown (20:37):
It is a constant battle. And I think when you
know, you're going to bephotographed, at least for me,
my, if I know I'm going to beshowing my face on social media,
like if I'm going to do a realor if I'm gonna be photographed,
oh, my gosh, my like,insecurities start coming out
way more than they normallywould. Right. And I think a lot
of people feel that it's veryvulnerable to know that you're
going to be photographed,

because we all know that being judged there are
gonna think absolutely,

Unknown (21:00):
Oh, absolutely. And let's be honest, people really
are judgmental, and don't have aproblem telling you. So a person
your fear is totally valid,right. But I think for me, I had
to, I mean, like I said, I camefrom the fashion world. So I
love that kind of stuff. Butwhat I do have to balance is, as
I've gotten older, I've reallyrealized this understanding, I

(21:23):
need to wear something that,like you said feels elevated
also feels like me, but that I'mgoing to be comfortable in
sitting standing and like Idon't want to have conditions
around it like Well, I'm onlygoing to like this dress, if I'm
not, you know, in my bloatedphase, or if I sit down and you
know, whatever is coming overthe top of my pants, you know,

(21:44):
so also I think I'm in that ageto where it's like, comfort has
to be married with style.
Because you're right, I mean, ifI pick out like the gorgeous,
like body con dress, um, I mayor may not feel great in that
that day. And that's just notsomething I'm like, willing to
do to my self esteem anymore.
Like I've been there, done that,that's just for myself in my 20s

(22:08):
and I'm about to be 35 Like,that shouldn't happen anymore.
I'm done. So are you Amen.

I love that. Um, so it's funny, because I feel
like that topic is sort of likean unpopular opinion topic,
right? And so it's somethingwhere it's like what like the
question being what should wewhat should you wear to a
branding issue? And theunpopular opinion that I would
say is whatever the hell makesyou feel comfortable, whereas a
lot of other people would say,you want to dress up you want to

(22:39):
be you want to look like a boss,you want to you want to have a
blazer, you know, you don't wantpeople thinking that you're just
like some not not serious aboutyour business because you don't
look like dressed to the nines,right? And I'm like, yo, if you
are barefoot and in sweats andon the couch on your laptop to
do your job, that's what thehell I want to photograph
because I want it I want this tobe authentic. I want this to be

(22:59):
the real you I don't want you tobe I would never ever coach
somebody to market themselves assomeone they're not because
guess why? People hire youbecause of you. Right? So when I
finally changed that mindsetwhen I finally did the work and
the development, and was finallylike, you know what, this is me
if you don't like it, c'est lavie. Right? My client base has

(23:20):
never been so fruitful. It'snever been so I don't know the
right word. Like it's just neverbeen so fulfilling because these
people get me and they're likeme, and it is an enjoyable
experience for everybody. Right?
So unpopular opinions, so it'skind of go back to that for me,
opinions are kind of somethingthat is like trending on
Instagram right now. I feel likeI do have a couple posts in

(23:41):
queue about it because I thinkit's kind of funny, but I'm also
someone who's like real talk Isaid what I said it is what it
is I don't really give a shit.
Right so like I love unpopularopinions, I think they're great.
I think they are a powerful toolfor some of us to actually get
out of our own way and to belike you know, I don't get to
share what everybody thinks sounpopular opinions like what is

(24:04):
the biggest unpopular opinionyou think that you have right
now that like most people woulddisagree with?

Unknown (24:11):
Oh, okay. Hi, no, no, people are not gonna like this
but we need so that when I saidI saw it I said I can backup why
I started to you know, um, weneed to stop buying from Shin
the fast fashion company and weneed to stop consuming so much

(24:31):
just overall and I get thatthat's hard. I know that goes
against the grain of like, andthe desire right to like buy
every trend you see on Tik Tokand you know, have as many
outfits as an influencer andnever be photographed in the
same outfit twice. Um, we'rekilling our planet by doing
these things, so I know noteveryone wants to hear that but

(24:55):
sorry,

it is definitely guilty of the sheen thing.
Shine, shine,

Unknown (24:59):
shine. Yeah. That's exactly

Oh, guilty. And I will say that I'm guilty a lot
because I google something, andthen they just happen to be
something that like comes up.
And a lot of times, it's cheap,and you need to find it or
whatever. And you're like, I'mtotally guilty of that. I am
totally guilty of overconsuming. I have my I have my
Starbucks coffee right here thatI had, I said, I wasn't gonna
drink anymore. Like, it is justa huge, huge problem. So like,

(25:22):
with that problem with thatbeing said, How do you feel like
you and your life are, you know,kind of like, backing that up?
Like, how are you? What's theright word? Like? I don't know,
I can't think of the right word.
Um, how are you advocating forthat? Like, what changes did you

(25:43):
make in your life? Or Or like,what made you kind of feel like
that change needed to be made?

Unknown (25:49):
So just more I mean, I think again, one of the
beautiful things about you know,the time that we live in now is
we have a lot of access toeducation, right? And like, you
can, you can, because of theinternet, you can access like,
whatever you want to know. Sojust education on the topic. I
mean, fast fashion, isnotoriously synonymous with
horrible working conditions,treating their workers horribly

(26:10):
paying them awfully.
Trafficking, all these thingsterrible for the environment. So
education on that. And more ofthat's coming to the forefront.
I mean, h&m just got in reallybig trouble for greenwashing. So
fortunately, all these all thesethings that maybe were more like
fashion insider thing, thingsare now becoming more like

(26:32):
mainstream ideas that everyonecan access. What is a washing?
greenwashing is basically, whenyou make it sound like when a
company makes it sound like whatthey're doing is like eco
friendly, but it's actually not.
So they're basically just usingbeen buzzwords that attract the
customer thinks, hey, I'm doinga good thing. So customers have

(26:55):
the best intention in mind. Andthat's actually not what not
what's happening behind thescenes. So h&m just got totally
busted for doing that they hadbeen doing that for a while. And
so for me, I've done severalepisodes on buying, not buying
fast fashion, shopping moresustainably, being more

(27:16):
conscious about those things.
I've done episodes onconsumption, and then in my own
life, and I do want to have alittle caveat, this conversation
relates a lot back to privilegeand access and things like that.
So I'm gonna say this becausewe're limited on time here, but
this conversation does warrantlike a lot more time to realize
and really like hash this out.

(27:37):
So I don't want anyone listeningto this being like, oh, you
know, yeah, totally, you know,but, um, for me in my life, I am
really trying to be so much moreintentional about what I buy and
making sure that they arequality pieces that are going to
last a long time. If I'm buyingsomething to wear once I'm not
doing it anymore, you know ifI'm trying to buy for a size

(27:57):
that I'm not right now becauseI'm going to quote unquote fit
into it later. No, because thatnever happens. You're not gonna
we're not gonna buy it laterstill sitting in my closet.
You're we're all guilty of that.
We all do that. Oh, yes. You'rejust trying to shop with like
intentionality. Trying to shopquality over quantity.

Yeah, to be fair, my intentions. When I buy
something that I might fit intothe intention is not bad, but

Unknown (28:22):
totally. Oh, yeah. Yes.
Usually we have good intentions,but I think we have to be
realistic when like, Okay, buthow often do I follow through on
those good intentions and forme, it wasn't often so I was
like, Okay, I just have to stop.

Oh, same and I feel like I actually also like
while I was in all the personaldevelopment stuff, I think I
actually realized that I wassabotaging myself I was actually
making it harder for myselfbecause I was setting this
unrealistic like expectation oflike, this is fitting into these
jeans is going to be successful,right? Like they all and then
all of a sudden I'm sabotagingit like I'm looking at these

(28:58):
pants. I'm like, God, I stilldon't fit into those. Oh, I
still don't fit into those. Oh,so often of those taking into
account what life has like whatwhat chaos life is in what
health issues I have all thesethings. I'm not taking that into
account. I'm just looking atthose pair jeans and I'm
freaking pissed because theydon't fit.

Unknown (29:13):
Well. You basically just punish yourself. Yeah,
exactly. And then you just feelworse afterward. And it's like,
really I'm like, this pair ofjeans is sabotaging my self
esteem. Like, okay, maybe weshould just get rid of the
jeans. That's not worth, youknow, my mental state, right?

For sure. And I feel like when we were younger,
I don't even know why this justcame to mind. But like I feel
like when we were younger girlstalked about what size they wore
a lot more than they do now.
Like it was like Oh yeah. Oh,your size seven G's. Oh, well,
I'm like a 15. Like, I'm likeyou. You really start to worry
about what everybody thinks. Andthen all of a sudden you feel

(29:50):
like you're you're trying tochange your life to match what
somebody else is doing. Right?
Yeah, it's crazy. And change isnot always a bad thing. I'm a
huge actual fan. have changedbecause whatever didn't work out
for you before you can learnfrom that I'm a I'm a wins and
lessons type of person, youdon't lose something right?

Unknown (30:09):
Yeah, no, I love that mindset.

Let's let's switch gears for a second here.
I know that because we were inthe pod squad together, I know
that when you first launchedyour podcast, you had one name.
And then a little bit later youmade the decision to pivot and
actually change that name. Okay,so can you talk a little bit
more about that transition?
Because I'm really curious toknow, a little bit more behind

(30:31):
the scenes about thattransition. But also, I want to
know, if you were afraid or likewhat level of fear you had of
what other people were going tosay or think about you making
that change so early in yourpodcast?

Unknown (30:45):
Yeah, so no, I was well, and I'll back up and say,
so the name I had originallypicked out was pretty
unfiltered. And I had done a tonof research on it, like really
felt like this is the name thisis it. And you know, Trey
applied to have a trademark allthe things then found out a
couple months ago, I guess thiswas back in the summer that
another entity had alsotrademarked applied for a

(31:08):
trademark for it. And they hadput those in first. So very long
story short, the likelihood ofthem getting awarded, the
trademark was, you know, thatwas most likely going to happen.
So reluctantly, I had to change.
I didn't want to change it. AndI think I think I was a little
bit nervous for two things. One,I had so much positive feedback
on the first name, it was kindof hard to feel like you have to

(31:29):
like I loved

it. I was like, yeah, thank you. Thank you.

Unknown (31:35):
Sadly, I did do you know, so it was like, feeling
like you have to like follow upthis act with something like
even better. And because and Ithink people get really attached
to names like I was attached toit, right? That's just a normal
human thing. So I was definitelyworried about that. And then I
think just being so early on, itwas kind of like, oh, my gosh, I
had a big fear of is this goingto mess with like, the

(31:57):
trajectory and my numbers andthe the momentum that I've built
so far. So, you know,fortunately, it ended up working
out. And I totally agree withyou, Jesse, I think things
happen for a reason, I think youjust learn from them and pick up
and move on instead of justdwelling in the past. So it's
been good. And I actually nowfeel like my name is slightly

(32:18):
more aligned with all of thetopics I covered. So I think it
ended up being a good thing. ButI didn't really like my original

agenda. I think that's amazing. Because I think
the universe really does work inreally a weird way sometimes.
And you know, you can look backHindsight is 2020, right? So you
can look back, and you can saylike, Oh, I was so upset,
because I really love that name.
I was all in on that name. Andthen I had to change it. And now
here you are. And you're like,you know, I'm looking back.
Like, it was a hard time for me,but look where I am now. And
like, I may not be where I amnow if I hadn't made that

(32:48):
change, right. Yeah. So thething that I think most
listeners are going to relate tohere is like the fear factor,
like that fear of the unpopularopinion, that fear of what
everybody thinks, becausesociety and social media in
general, like just instill thisworry in us, right? Like, we're
so worried that if we say thewrong thing, or we look the

(33:09):
wrong way, people are gonnaretaliate. They're gonna speak
ill words, they're gonna starttrolling us, right. And I think
it's absolutely pours over intoour personal lives write on a
much deeper level, even becausenow all of a sudden, those
things are instilled in your ownperson, like in your own mind,
and how you think of yourself,right? So in, does this opinion,
you know, or like any others,like strongly affect your

(33:32):
relationships with people. Solike, the things you choose to
talk about, or the things youbelieve in your open, that
you're very open about them?
Like, do any of those thingsaffect your relationships with
your family and friends?

Unknown (33:47):
You know, that's so interesting. And I mean, the
short answer is, yes. I mean,fortunately, I do have a very
supportive family. And I am oneof those people that I like to
keep my friend group really liketight and close. Like, I'm very
selective with, like, who Ispend my time with. And because
I think that, I think that'simportant, I think where you put
your energy is a reallyimportant thing to take into

(34:08):
consideration. So no one hassaid anything to me. But I also
know that, for instance, with myfamily, I have very different
political views than a lot of myfamily and on both sides of my
family, so it's very, I think, Ithink when you do something kind

(34:28):
of in the unpopular opinion,space, you just have to kind of
set expectations and know thatnot everyone is going to agree
with you and some people aregoing to voice that and I think
the biggest fear for me would befor my family and friends to
maybe feel like I was going tojudge them if they thought
differently than me. And reallythat's not the case. You know,
you're free to believe what youwant to believe. My mission in

(34:53):
this podcast is just to open upthe conversation and bring these
things to light. You can agreewith me you can disagree with
me, if you disagree, please doit respectfully, because I've
also had a lot of, you know, aholes disagreeing with, you
know, reels or things like that,that I put out, which is fine,
but you can still treat eachother like humans. Right. That
was, you know, and so, but thatgoes back to what you're saying

(35:16):
about people being worried thatthey're going to be trolled. Um,
I think it's always important toset those expectations. Yes, you
are gonna have people that wantto disagree with you. So
fortunately, in my personallife, everyone has been really
considerate. But I just hopethat everyone knows I'm not
saying these things to makepeople feel judged. I'm saying
them because I think we need tobring light to these issues and

(35:39):
have a discussion, even if youdo end up on the other side of
it than I am. At least we'retalking about this and can maybe
move forward. You know?

Absolutely. I think that's the biggest hurdle
to in society, especially withsocial media. We're so it's
we're so quick to hide behindour phones in our, in our
computers and all this and theseconversations that happen,
virtually are so different thanhaving an actual conversation
like in person, right? And oh,yeah. And like, and also when it
comes to like, the trollingthing, like, here's the thing,

(36:10):
if people are trolling you, Imean, I totally agree with like,
people, we should be respectful,right? And it's okay to
respectfully disagree withpeople. But guess what, if
you're being trolled, or ifpeople are being like, just they
are so far on the other side ofthe opinion, you know, what, you
got the conversation going,because they would not be even
taking the time to writeanything, if what you said

(36:32):
didn't hit a nerve. And guesswhat, when you hit a nerve in a
conversation that'suncomfortable, you starting the
conversation, and someone'sgonna grow out of it, whether
it's Yeah, whether it's them,someone's gonna grow out of it,
but you became the bigger biggerperson, in a sense, because you
started the conversation, right?
And that's always where I'vealways been on that side of the
spectrum of like, I get thatthis might be uncomfortable, or

(36:53):
that this is like an unpopularopinion. But choosing not to
talk about it is only avoidingthe topic and is only avoiding
whatever is going to come laterfrom it. Right. And so it's
like, it's just it's so soentirely crazy. I have one
follow up question to that. Doyou fear that your friends and
families fear to speak up aboutmaybe disagreeing with you?

(37:17):
Like, do you think that somepeople don't even respond?
Because they're afraid to havethat conversation? Like to open
a conversation about it? Um,

Unknown (37:29):
I haven't thought about that too much. I mean, I'm sure
that's partly it. But I alsothink my friends and family kind
of know how I am and know thatI've always been the person to
kind of push back on things eveneven from a young age, you know,
if I would hear something, I wasalways kind of the one that was
like, really? Like, why? Or? Idon't think so. You know, so.

(37:50):
And I, again, like I hope I try,I'm not saying that I always get
this done perfectly. But I dotry to come from a place of like
understanding and compassion,when I'm saying these things.
And coming from more of a placeof like, education and touching
one on what you were talkingabout earlier, coming from a
place of everything that I talkabout on my show are things that

(38:12):
I am either working out orstruggling with myself. So I
also try not to come off as Iknow it all. I get everything
right, because that's not that'snot true, right. So hopefully
people that know me, people thatlisten to the show, understand
that this is really coming froma place of like love and wanting
this to be better for everyone,instead of me trying to talk

(38:35):
down on someone that maydisagree with me. Yeah.

Oh, for sure. And I know you have two kids. Two
kitties, I've seen them. They'rereally cute. Thank you. So so
for me personally, I have beenthinking a lot about it lately.
And just about how the world isso much different right now than
it was when we grew up. Anddifferent when we grew up from

(39:00):
when our parents grew up, right.
So this like evolution of theworld of life, of the way to
live, your whatever, isconstantly changing, right? And
so I'm constantly worrying abouthow all of these things are
going to affect my son's life.
So my son is five, how old areyour kids again?

Unknown (39:18):
Eight and six. So we're pretty close. Yeah. Okay. So

like, I'm always wondering, like, I mean, I'm
like, sadly, I'm infatuated withtrying to visualize what life is
going to be like for him whenhe's my age, when he's, you
know, an adult and has a careerand a job and I have this like
really just infatuation withtrying to really kind of like

(39:45):
figure out like, what that'sgoing to be like for him. Right?
And, you know, like, it's areally hard pill to swallow how
fast things change at thispoint. So, you know, like, I'm
gonna be 37 I'm gonna be 37Shame on me. I turned 37 So, um,
so 36 the heart, right? Like,I'm 29 and holding everybody.

(40:07):
Yeah, so my 2020s but in thelast 10 years, okay, so I was a
wedding photographer for 10years, and in that 10 years,
like, career side, in that 10years, so many things changed at
such a specific rate of change,right. So like the first five
years of that the change wasslower, but the change was

(40:31):
happening. And the second fiveyears of the, the change felt
like it was like, like,overnight, yeah, it was
overnight. It was abrupt. It wasall of these things, right. So
it's crazy. So like, on thattopic, how do you see this
theory of unpopular opinions andthat fear of speaking up? And
that fear of what everybody elsethinks? Like, how do you how do

(40:52):
you see that theory evolvinginto our children and like,
their generation?

Unknown (40:58):
So I think one thing that's so important for us to
realize for selves, and then forthose of us who have kids to
teach them is not everyone'sgonna like you. And that's
totally okay. Right? Like,that's kind of I think, like the
core if you can kind ofunderstand and like, really be
at peace with like that corebelief, I think it's going to
help navigate, I think it'sgoing to help and inform how you

(41:21):
navigate different situations,right? Because there's kind of
this confidence, and this peacecoming from accepting that not
everyone's gonna like you,right? Like, even if you do
everything, quote, unquote,right, someone's gonna have a
problem with it, you're going tobe too much for someone, you're
gonna be not enough for someoneelse. That's just the way that
it is. So I think likeresiliency trying to grow really
confident, resilient kids is soimportant. And, you know, I'm so

(41:46):
I think about this, obviously,all the time. And this was a big
push for another reason, youknow why I started the podcast.
I'm nervous about it, too, to behonest. And I'm kind of 5050
Like, I feel like a lot of ourkids are growing up in a time
where they have the benefit ofhaving access to so much
information. They're growing up,and there's like a bigger push
for like this body neutralmovement and more education

(42:09):
around like white privilege andthink, you know, things like
this that like, These were,these were topics we never
discussed growing up, right,even the even D stigmatizing
mental health, right? Like,that's not something we talked
about in our generation. So Ithink there's a lot of hope. I
mean, look at all the kids thatare doing things for like
climate change, there's a lot ofhope. At the same time, you

(42:29):
know, kids in their adolescence,like the rate of plastic surgery
for kids in their adolescence isgoing up, right? Kids wanting to
have, like, filter selfie face,and, you know, all these kind of
like, body dysmorphic, you know,ideas are going on. So it's kind

(42:51):
of both, it's like, I thinkwe're going in a really direct
good direction in one way. Andthen in another way, I'm really
nervous with like social media,and you know, kids been so
desensitized, because they're ontheir online all the time, and
they watch all these violentmovies. And then we have all
these, like, mass shootings,let's just, I'm 5050. So I

(43:12):
really hope for the best and I'mgonna have like a positive spin
on it. But I'm also the realistside of me is kind of like, Oh,
my God, we have a lot of work todo in a very short amount of
time to make sure that our kidsdon't get derailed, right?

For sure. And I think like, I think that we are
doing our due diligence byopening these conversations,
right, like starting to talkabout them. Because the more we
can push people who don't wantto talk about these things, like
they're avoiding those things,the more that we can talk about
it, the more that we can alllearn from it, the more that we
can all grow. And the more thatwe can all just kind of like,
you know, you know, be but whenwhen you say, not, everyone's

(43:48):
going to like you, okay, like,mic, drop that seriously,
something I am constantlycoaching, not only my son, but
my marketing clients, you andall because they're so eager,
people are so eager to get tothe end, like, fast, right? Like
they want the end result. Thatwhat do you call that, that

(44:09):
instant gratification?
Everybody's looking for thatinstant gratification, right?
And so it's like, they're soeager to try it to reach
everyone and I'm over here like,no, stop, stop. Like, seriously,
stop doing that. You don't wantto waste your time, your money,
your energy on the people whoare not for you, right? So same
thing goes with like, you arenot for everybody, and
everybody's not for you. Andguess what? That's okay.

(44:29):
Anything, that's great, becausethat makes it easier for you to
reach the people you're tryingto reach, right. So right even
starting these conversationslike we are speaking to a very
specific type of person, andthose are the people who are
going to you know, like getsomething out of this so that
people who are going to followthe footsteps and continue to

(44:52):
you know, likeThat was really funny. I don't
know why Siri thinks I'm talkingrude. In the name again, wow,
okay. Anyway. So I just I just Ifeel very strongly about that,

(45:12):
because I feel like we waste somuch time and so much energy and
so much of our soul. Like, justlike being on this be like
everybody else, why not be meI'm going to be like just like
everybody else, right? So we maynot always agree but you know,
there's just the people who likeme like me and I like them and

(45:34):
that and that's that and thepeople that don't like me all I
probably don't really like themeither. And guess what? That's
okay. There are so many peoplein the world, like who the hell
cares?

Unknown (45:45):
Right? Right? So

what would you say? Has like drastically
changed in your life when youstarted having those
uncomfortable conversations?
Like where was there a fork inthe road where you chose to go
the hard way? Like where youchose to go up the hill instead
of down the hill? Like, what wasthat point in your life? Like,

Unknown (46:07):
I think starting this podcast was a huge, kind of like
fork in the road for me, becauseagain, you know, up until this
point, I had worked, you know,in jobs that just, you didn't
really have to do that, right?
Like you go in, you do what youneed to do. Like, whatever the
worst that would happen is maybethe buyer didn't, you know, like
the sample and we just redo itor whatever, you know, someone
doesn't like your design, no bigdeal. And so I think starting

(46:28):
this podcast was really kind ofme stepping into, like, my
adulthood, my womanhood and kindof being like, Okay, I have to
reckon with the fact that noteveryone's gonna like me. And I
will say that I still strugglewith that, right? Especially as
women, we have been conditionedall of our lives to be
agreeable, to be likable to notrock the boat. So it's very hard
to kind of like, undo thatsocietal conditioning. But so I

(46:50):
don't think there's ever goingto be a time where I'm like, Oh,
I've arrived like, today is theday going forward, I will always
be okay with this. Because I'mnot I'm, I'm a human, I have
feelings. You know, sometimes,yeah, I do want to be liked, you
know, I don't want peopleyelling at me on social media.
But I think once you get to thatpoint, and then you can start
making decisions based on that,like talking about things that

(47:12):
you know, are gonna piss peopleoff or you know, are going to
hit a nerve. There's alsosomething really freeing about
that. And then I feel likethere's kind of a sense of pride
and accomplishment and peacewith knowing that you said
something that felt reallyaligned and you felt like you
needed to say, regardless of ifanyone else liked it or not.

(47:35):
Yeah, for sure. For sure, like

1,000% on board.
Okay, so to wrap up, I'm sure.
Like, I'm envisioning so manypeople listening and like
nodding their heads and beinglike, yes, yes, yes. Right.
Like, okay, so I want to know,that, you know, I do know that a
lot of these women who arenodding their heads, they also
have this fear, right, of beingtrolled of upsetting someone, or

(48:05):
of someone not liking them, orhonestly, they're just afraid to
make a change in their life,right. So I know everybody is
like thinking that way, in oneway or another. If you're not
thinking that you're not beingtrue to yourself, or whatever.
Like, what advice do you havefor the listeners that are
literally out there? Like, yes,I'm so afraid of this, but like,
like, what, what advice wouldyou have for them?

Unknown (48:27):
I think one thing that's really helped me is just
understanding and maybe this islike having kids, I feel like
you think about so many thingsdifferently. Like once I had
kids, I've changed a lot ofthings. Right? And like, even
kind of thinking about, like,when I go and I don't know when
that's going to be and I knowthat's really morbid, I don't
want to get too off on thattopic. But it's kind of like,

(48:48):
when I'm 80 years old, am Igonna care that someone? I don't
know that my uncle didn't likesomething I said politically?
Probably not. Am I gonna care,though, that my kids had a mom
that they felt like, tried tomake a difference? Yeah, I am
gonna care about that. So Ireally kind of think we have to
like step like, zoom out almost.
And think of like, what do youreally want for yourself and go

(49:10):
towards what that is, again,there's kindness, like, you
don't have to be a jerk, youknow, but also accepting that
not everyone's gonna like you onthis journey, you're probably
going to upset some people. Andhonestly, that's okay. That's
life. But I would rather get tothe end of my time, knowing that
I did something that felt veryaligned for me. And for like,

(49:30):
especially my kids, you know, myhusband, like the people I care
like the most about, rather thantrying to live my life, rather
than performing my life. I'llsay for someone else, you know,
and just knowing too, that it'sgoing to be a journey. I don't
know that anyone ever likearrives at this endpoint of
like, now I just don't care andI have the thickest skin and

(49:51):
that's not realistic. I thinklife is always kind of this like
evolution, this journey. Soknowing that as long as you're
working towards It's that andjust make baby steps towards it,
you know, because you're justgoing to feel a lot better
living in alignment withyourself than you are performing
for someone else,

for sure. And I'm a huge, like, anti destination
person, I always have been. Andwhat's interesting about that is
I feel like, people do set this,this road, and they have this
destination. And what happenswhen they get to that
destination is they're reallydisappointed. And they're really
like, Yeah, this isn't what Ithought it was gonna be. And
then they start over, becausethey were so blinded by where

(50:33):
that destination that theywanted to go, they learned
nothing along the way. They justthey did whatever they had to do
to get to that destination. Andnow they get there. And they're
completely disappointed orthey're completely confused.
They're like, this is not what Iwas expecting. And instead of
just taking 10 steps back andyou know, going back to that
fork in the road and turning,they have to go all the way back
to the beginning. Now I'mstarting to think about

(50:53):
Candyland like or monopoly like,oh, gosh, I do not

Unknown (50:57):
clatters never ends.

Do not collect $200 You do not know. Like, I
feel like I feel like that isdefinitely in it. For me. I feel
like when I start to think aboutthings like like the end, and
again, we're not gonna go intomore of a direction. It's, it's
more for me of like, what will Iregret? What will I look back
and regret not doing or regretdoing? Right? So like, what

(51:22):
would I go back and like want tochange? Or what would I go back
and wish I would have donedifferently? And so like, that
is very much how I like to kindof like look back at that and
say, you know, what, what do Iwant my son to think? At that
point? Do I want him to thinklike, oh, yeah, she worked a
lot. And we went on vacation?
And you know, whatever? Or doeshe want? Or does does he think

(51:43):
that like, Oh, my mom was areally creative person who
really made a difference inother people's lives. She taught
me everything I don't you don'tlike you think about what you
want that conversation to be. Ifsomeone were to ask your kid
that when you're gone, andsomeone was to ask your kid to
describe you, or their you know,like their life with you? What

(52:04):
do you want them to say? Do youwant them to say that you were
workaholic? And that you workedall the time? And then you were
always with grandma, because momwas always working? And you
know, whatever it is like, doyou want him to say that if you
don't then make the changes tomake that not the conversation?
Right? Right. So I like to kindof like I'm a very wide thinker.
I'm a very like long termthinker. I'm a very try to like

(52:26):
think of all the things thatcould go wrong. Like, that's
definitely how my brain works.
But yeah, I really like to thinkabout it as more of like, what
would I regret going likelooking back like hindsight, I
know, hindsight is 2020. So whenI get to that point when I'm
right, what is hindsight goingto be like at that point? Oh,
yeah. So powerful. It's sopowerful to get in that mindset,

(52:48):
and to really think about thatin a genuine manner. And not
just like, oh, when I'm 80, I'mgonna be Oh, my kids gonna have
to put me in a nursing home.
Like, I'm not talking about I'mtalking deeper. I'm talking like
for legacy here. I'm talkinglike, what is it that you want
people to say about your life?
at your funeral? What do youwant them to say? What? Yeah,
and then and then do thosethings? 100%. Yeah. Yes. Love

(53:11):
it. This was amazing. Thank you.
Yes, for joining me today,helping me open up the
conversation about toxic norms,and just unpopular opinions as
well. Because I think thatthat's just something that so
many people do not talk about.
This has been so amazing. I lovegetting fresh views from other
people. I love to like, try tosee it through everybody's

(53:33):
looking glass. Because I thinkwhen we have differing opinions,
or even when we're the same, no,it's really nice to see the way
that people will describe whatthey see even if it's the same
or different from you. I reallylike to hear from other people
about like, how they see theworld and how they see the
issues and what they're doingabout it. Right. So you aren't
doing the damn thing girl youare like, out there to like,

(53:54):
make a difference. I love it.
And you know, it's hardsometimes. And I know it's
lonely sometimes. But you know,you're out there pursuing it,
and you whether you like it ornot, you are inspiring somebody
else to do the same thing, whichallows it that like while we're
here. Yes, thank you. Soeverybody that's listening.
Sometimes you are going to haveto make decisions and not
everybody is going to be happy.

(54:16):
Some people are not going tolike it. That's just life, but I
encourage you to make thedecision that feels the most
aligned for you. And don't givea shit what everybody else
thinks. Okay, so Sarah, iflisteners are totally vibing and
they want to know more, theywant to hear about your show.
Where can they find you? Orhow's the best way for them to
get in touch with you?

Unknown (54:35):
Yeah, so it is on my show is called socially
misguided. And it is on Applepodcasts and it's on Spotify.
You can also connect with me onInstagram at socially misguided
podcast and I do reels on there.
I've got like little sound bitesfrom the episodes you can
connect with me and even reachout you know, to the guests that

(54:56):
have been on there. And then ifyou click the Link in bio that
also will take you directly toApple podcasts. So yeah, come
check it out. Come and leave mea message. I love connecting
with everyone. So yes, yes,

yes, yes, yes.
Amazing. Okay, Sarah, thank youso much for coming today and
thank you guys for listening.

Unknown (55:15):
Thank you

all right, baby.
I hope you really enjoyedtoday's conversation. I am super
curious to know what yourbiggest takeaway was from today.
So go ahead and share thisepisode on social media. Be sure
to tag me at this way tofabulous and let me know what
you connected with. What did youlearn from this episode and what
action item are you going totake today? But till next time
guys, keep pushing, keepdreaming. And let's keep on

(55:41):
redefining fabulous chat soon,guys.

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