WTF is COPY and Why it's NOT Just Words on Page

Episode Transcript
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Jessi Cabanin (00:04):
Hey girl, hey, are you ready for some real
talk? If you are a femaleentrepreneur who has ever felt
like a total failure, or maybeeven a frequent flyer of
imposter syndrome, this podcastis for you. I'm your host Jessi
a millennial business owner, boymom and creative genius helping
women bring their businessdreams to life. After 10 years
of building numerous creativebrands from the ground up, I'm

(00:26):
ready to get real about whatactually goes on behind the
scenes of building your very ownempire feel you're opening up
brand new mindset for me and Ireally want that for you too,
because honestly, I am just soover society's definition of
what it means to live asuccessful life. So together, we
are going to create and navigatea version of success that works
for you. Together, we canredefine fabulous. Okay guys,

(00:50):
welcome to today's episode ofempowering coffee combos. I'm
Jesse, the founder and chiefempowerment Officer of this way
to fabulous and today is veryspecial. Today I'm here with
Samantha campin. She is thefounder of Moxie consulting. She
is a copywriter for sassy folks,okay, and she is a brand voice
strategist. Okay? She lovesplants, books, animals and

(01:13):
watching baking shows becausewho doesn't right. But most of
all, Sam loves a good chance todismantle the patriarchy and
make sure that women get theirfucking turn at the podium.
Okay, now you guys know justfrom that statement, I am here
for all of that. And I knowplenty of you guys are too. So

(01:34):
also very special note Sam isalso the newest member of the
official this way to fabulousteam and I cannot literally
cannot contain my excitement.
More on that soon. I promise.
That's now what we're talkingabout today. But before we
start, Sam, why don't you telleverybody a little bit about
yourself? Just kind of a quicksynopsis of your life story
maybe and where are you at inlife right now.

Samantha Campen (01:55):
A quick synopsis of my life story. I
will spare I will spare everyonethe early beginnings. But I've
always been a lover of readingand writing. I was an English
major in college. Like a lot ofEnglish majors. When I got out

(02:16):
of college, I didn't do any jobsrelating to being an English
major. But no matter what I did,I was in sales. And you know,
but I always had a way ofcommunicating. And that was
really important in sales. And Ithink that my English background
helped me with that. And then inthe early to mid 2000s When

(02:41):
blogging was like the cool newthing. Oh, yeah.

But when that was like, social platform, right,

right. I mean, like I was an OG blogger like
that is when Yeah, edit girl.
Right. And so then somehow, Igot approached by Nintendo's
marketing company, and theywanted me to be an intentional
brand. Like influencer, therewas like 50 of us, throughout

(03:11):
the country. And I'm like, okay,so then I kind of got more aware
of reaching an audience, youknow, like, who is my audience,
and my authentic voice, andsocial media, and then you know,
like the Facebook's, and all ofthat, and Twitter before it

(03:33):
turned into a dumpster fire.
Like a long time ago. And thatjust got me really into social
media. And then with my salesbackground, I've always been
passionate about things that Ilove. And so then kind of
connecting the two, it just kindof made sense. So then along the

(03:56):
way, my husband started his ownmarketing and PR consultancy.
And with some clients, I wouldhelp with the social media. He
would do you know, 360campaigns, and I would help with
social media. I was home withthe kids. And that was just
something I was doing like tohelp him and on the side. And

(04:19):
then the pandemic hit, and

dammit, you're not allowed to say the real word
because then Google startsshowing us all things. We call
it the pandammit,

pandemic. It's literally what it was and his
business kind of, you know,fizzled a little bit. We didn't
know what we were going to do.
We're trying to regroup and thenI said, Okay, well let me just
see if I can get some writingjobs, you know, if I see
anything online, and thingsstarted coming up, and I was

(04:49):
really liking it and what wasreally cool is they were more my
ideal client than my husband'sbecause That was like his
company and I was just writingfor like all of his people. So
then I kind of liked being incharge and then that kind of set
me on the path to Moxie as it istoday.

That's awesome.
That is awesome. So how long hasMoxie actually been a thing?

Like an official LLC? It will be. It
will be two years in May, Ishould probably find out Max's
birthday. That's that'simportant. Don't

worry. I don't really know mine either. Right.

So like, I was just kind of chugging along and
like doing my own clients. Andthen I was in a, like,
masterclass group. And they'relike, We think this, like, this
sounds like you and your voice,and you shouldn't be under his
LLC. Like, you need your ownbrand and everything. I'm like,
Oh, this was never the directionI expected to go. Like, I was

(05:56):
never like, I'm going to have myown business. And I'm going to
be the one in charge and. And sothen I told Brian, and he's
like, get it, he's, like, go outthere. He's like, you kick ass,
you know, you, you your LLCversus my LLC, like, you know,
it'll be like a cage match. Andit'll be awesome. And you just

(06:17):
do it. And then it just, I'm,I'm learning along the way. But
I think I've always had a senseof who I am, and my writing and
my personality. And once Ifinally learned to lean into it.
That's when things just reallystarted happening. And then I

(06:39):
felt most comfortable. Insteadof being this professional
version of what, you know, youjust kind of have ingrained in
your head.

Yeah, like a society standard that people
just kind of assume, is whatthey should be doing. Yeah, for
sure. And I really like how youtalk about leaning in, I think
that's something that a lot ofpeople can use the help and the
reminder of being able to leanin. And you know, for some
people, it's more risky thanothers, and depending on their
circumstance and theirsituation. But the ideology

(07:12):
behind leaning in remains thesame that, you know, if the
universe is kind of pulling youtowards something that is meant
for you leaning into that cancompletely change your life, it
could completely change thattrajectory trajectory, of like,
where you're going, and what youwant to do. I think that's
amazing. I love that. So I ampersonally so excited that

(07:35):
you're here. So just a littlebackstory for you guys. Sam and
I were actually we had a teamphoto shoot last weekend, and
two weeks ago now I don't evenknow. It was awesome. Like so
awesome. So she is currently ifyou are watching, or if you are
not watching the YouTubeversion, she is currently
wearing the t shirt that we hadmade for all of us that

(08:00):
basically it says that she'saward wizard, and we all had T
shirts that had our, you knowour niche on them. And it was
really fun. So sitting herewearing this shirt today is like
just an extra layer of fun forme. So okay, let's let's dive
right in here. So let'sbacktrack a little bit here.
What big thing happened for youfirst, motherhood or having a

(08:22):
successful career? Maybe noteven Moxie per se, but like
having a successful career? Whatcame first for you?

Well, I wouldn't even say that. I've had
a career prior to my oldest is15. Okay, so I just had jobs.
You know, like, they weren't acareer. I wasn't really looking,
you know, I want to grow 10years down the road with this

(08:49):
company or whatever. It was justlike, okay, what can I do that
I'm pretty okay at that wouldhelp support my family that was
just like, you know, what, whatit is? So definitely motherhood,
motherhood first. So I have a 15year old and a 10 year old. So

(09:14):
it's nice that they're not likewe to, you know, as I'm starting
and growing a business, it'svery helpful that it's, uh huh.

Tell me more.
Right? No, I

know. Cash.
Yes. But starting your ownbusiness during a pandemic when
your kids are home. And you'realso scared out of your mind
because it was the early dayslike what's going on? Are we in
that Will we have enough foodWill we have enough you know? So
that was an enjoyable, don'trecommend zero audits. But the

(09:48):
cool thing to you know, kind offinds Some ray of light from the
pandemic. So many businesseswere born from the pandemic. A
lot of them were women, becausethey had kids at home, they

(10:13):
couldn't go into an office,maybe they were laid off, which
don't get me started. So, sothey had to, you know, women are
scrappy women, you know, getshit done. So they're just like,
okay, what can I do from home?
What is accessible for me andworks with, you know, my family,

(10:36):
and a lot of businesses werecreated. And that is so badass.
So, um, and some, you know,small businesses already that
were developed, were struggling.
So it's just like, Who can weamplify? Who can we lift up? Who
can we promote, you know, thingslike that. So that got me kind
of, you know, really lit up. So,

yeah, I feel like we we as women became the hot
commodity in the pandemic,because, yeah, people were
struggling and you know, whocame in and swooped up and like,
save the day for a lot of peopleasked women who are out here
killing the game, like, right?
You wish too, used to

doing 1015 things at once used to, you
know, managing all of like, the,the mental load. So it's just
like, Okay, I've kind of beentraining for this, I mean, that
anyone should be thrown into apandemic, because it was scary
as hell. But it's like, okay,I'm used to adapting on a dime,

(11:38):
you know, because motherhood,you know, our, to our day to day
is 1,000%. Right? Right. Yeah.
So, um, we have less fear, Ifeel

like in pivot in the in the need to pivot, and
it'll like figure things out andtry new things. Like, I feel
like women held a lot less fearin that aspect. Because that's
kind of where a lot of us thriveis like, pivoting and making,
you know, quick decisions andhaving to fix things and things
like that. Like, I feel likethat's sort of a maternal

(12:08):
instinct, in a sense. And, andthat was something that in the
pandemic really changed thingsfor people, like really, really
changed things for people. Ithink that you have a really
unique story a little bit here,because I do feel like a lot of
women that I've talked to haveyounger kids, when they are
starting their business and, youknow, made it through the

(12:30):
pandemic and stuff. So I'mcurious, a little bit more about
kind of the struggles you faced,as a mom, starting this
business, in the pandemic, witholder children? What kind of
struggles did you have? Andlike, how did you overcome our
work through

them? Well, I mean, the, the biggest struggle
was them doing virtual school.
Because, you know, I'm eithertrying to meet with my my
mastermind group, meeting withmy strategist, you know, Zoom
calls, trying to get some thingsdone, either for my website or

(13:08):
for a client. And then, but, youknow, my, my mic isn't working,
or is your internet down? Whyisn't my Chromebook working, or
my daughter, so the pandemicstarted the last half when she
was in first grade. So then shewas in virtual school in second

(13:32):
grade, and that's when I wastrying to, you know, get things
going. So as a second grader, Imean, I, not even just my
daughter, but the setting andthe attention and the patience,
so she was always popping in.

(13:52):
And are you in a meeting? Iknow, I should be doing my
lesson. But I just wanted tocome in and tell you about my
dream last night, and you know,stuff like that. So, um, you
know, a line, the line gotblurry between absolutely,
absolutely did and but duringthat time, like, what are you

(14:12):
supposed to do? Like, you can'tmake it perfect. Nothing is the
best you can. That's what andthe best you can change is every
day. Absolutely. And I saw I sawa quote that said, even if you
only have 40%, to give on anygiven day, and you give 40% You

(14:33):
gave 100% of yourself becausethat is what you were able to do
that day. That's a greatreference like that. Right? And
I'm sorry, I can't attribute itto anyone I don't know who said
it was not me. I'm not takingcredit, I promise. But yeah,
every day every day wasdifferent and new stresses and
but I think no matter what, whatanyone was doing during that

(14:58):
time, we were all going throughthe ups and downs, the stresses
the interruptions, not having aroutine because everything was
turned upside down, you know,all of that.

Yeah, I think the key here, too, that a lot of
listeners will be able to relateto is you showed up, it didn't
really matter what it lookedlike when you showed up, but you
showed up. And the importantpart of that is not how you show
up. It's that you show up. And Ithink that that's something that
a lot of women in generalstruggle with, especially when

(15:33):
things get crazy, like it didduring the pandemic. So yeah, I
think that's I think that's,that holds true to pretty much
people of any age minus the factthat like, when my when the pain
I'm in hate my son was two and ahalf. And I know school for
those little first. Right,

right. Yeah, that was a whole different
ballgame. But

I think it's, I think it's, it's the common
theme is that you showed up. Andthat's all that really mattered
at that point. That's really allthat mattered. Was that true,
you showed up and that you nevergave up? Yeah. And that you kept
going no matter how pretty ornasty, it looked you You did it?
Right. So during that time, youknow, you were trying to build

(16:16):
Moxie. Did you ever have a timewhen you were like, wanting to
quit when you were like, youknow, this is too much? I can't
do this anymore. Like I can't.
Was there any ever a hurdle foryou that, you know, maybe set
you back a little bit that youquestioned if it was something
that you were going to continuepursuing?

Um, I don't think like to that extent, just
like, burn it all down. And I'mout. Right? But I mean, there
were times when I was superoverwhelmed. And I just couldn't
pick what was a priority,because they all whatever was in
front of me, like building thebusiness reaching out to clients

(17:01):
working on Maxi, working onmyself working for the client,
like it just seemed likeeverything needed to get done
yesterday.

So me every day,

right? And so I really, I really credit, the
cohort that I was in, and thestrategist I was working with
who I'm still working withtoday. Where she would just be
like, okay, so I see this isoverwhelming you. Why do you

(17:32):
think that is? And so we kind oftalk about it. And she's like,
maybe it's the preconceived ideaof the way you think it should
be done, as opposed to whatworks for you? And how you want
to do it so much. Yes. And it'sthe shooting all over ourselves,

(17:54):
right? Everything is just well,it should be like this, and I
should do more, or I should makeit better. You know, all of
that. And she really helped mekind of realize what was working
for me. If I was putting theextra stress on myself, or if it

(18:16):
was truly warranted, you know,if not that this ever happened,
but just an example like, Well,yeah, you should be stressed
out. That was due two weeks ago.
Yeah, you? Yeah, maybe thestress can make you finish it or
something like that. But insteadof Well, are you the only one
saying this to yourself? Are youthe only one, you know, putting
all this pressure on you? So sothat's where I got really hung

(18:41):
up because I It sounds weird nowtwo years in. But realizing that
I was the one in charge andmaking all the decisions because
I'd always worked for people.
It's just like, Okay, here's thethings you need to do. This is
what needs to get done by blabla, bla, meet your numbers, all

(19:02):
that. And, like, in thebeginning, I guess I was kind of
waiting to be told what to do.
And then after a while, it'slike, it's me. And then now I
was kind of panicking, you know?
And then I'm like, oh, it's me.
I don't have to work with thattype of client. Like that type

(19:24):
of client is not my ideal thatwould stress me the hell out. I
get to pick and choose whatworks for me and my business.
And so I guess it's not thestages of grief, but it's just
like, Okay, you kind of have togo through the process of
evolving, working for someone toworking for yourself. And once I

(19:46):
kind of got there, then it waslike, okay, yeah. Then even if I
got stressed, which Hi, youknow, like, well, who doesn't?
If I was able to be like, Okay,these are my boundaries, this is
what I'm doing, this is what I'mnot doing. And I will take it

(20:07):
from there. And so, you know, I,once I worked through that, then
it, it got better. And really,you know,

every, every business is going to have those
transitional seasons. You know,every and those seasons, they
come back, I mean, don't feellike you're like, I'm just here
to tell you that that's gonnacome back, and that you're gonna
realize that being the one incharge is a double edged sword.
Because like, yeah, I get tomake all these decisions. And
then you're like, Shit, I haveto make all of these decisions

grown up. Like when you have a kid, it's like,
Oh, my God. Yes.

And it is really this double edged sword. And I,
I really do love all of thememes and rails out there about
what people think I do versuslike, what I actually do, or
these kinds of things, because Ithink it's really interesting
how a lot of entrepreneurs havethe same idea of what other

(21:06):
people think of what we do,because like, they think like,
Man, I think that we kind oflike exaggerate a little bit.
But there are definitely peoplewho are like, Oh, my God, you
have the best light, like youget to make your schedule,
whatever the hell you want. I'mlike, yeah, and effing sucks
most of the time, because it's alot of extra pressure, to not be
told what to do. And you know,and I'm in any season of my

(21:29):
business where, you know, Ibrought on a COO, because I need
to be told what to do, I broughton someone to help me with that
exact scenario that you set up,like, you just have all these
things in front of you. And I amso glad that you cannot see my
desk right now, because you willprobably have a panic attack.
But like, I definitely came toterms with the fact that that

(21:51):
was something that I needed inorder to continue growing. And I
think that's half of the battle,right? Like, actually coming to
terms with the fact thatsomething needs to change, or
that you need help, right, I amdefinitely an advocate for
asking for help. Because I spentway too long, way too much of my
life, trying to do everything bymyself. And don't get me wrong,

(22:12):
I'm still that person, I stillveer that way. It's still like,
figured out, but like, I've cometo terms with the fact that
there is just no room forvertical and horizontal growth
at the same time. On your own.
There just isn't you just it islike physically not possible. So
I think that's I think that'sreally powerful. And I think
that a lot of people can relateto that season of feeling like

(22:33):
just kind of unsure not not likeyou're gonna quit, but just kind
of feeling unsure, overwhelmed,not really sure exactly what to
tackle first. That's a reallycommon common season. Kids are
not

like, well, and then how many entrepreneurs are
just working alone in theirhouse? Yeah. So that having a
network, like, yeah, you canhire a CEO, whatever, but just
having my networking group thatyou met with over zoom. Um, so

(23:12):
I'm not just in my head, yes,it's time sitting in my office,
you know, kids running in ornot, like you said, it's just
like, you need people who aregenerally on the same page as
you in the same area of businessgrowth that you are, yeah,
different industries, you know,you want different, you know,

(23:34):
opinions and perspectives, butjust not being alone in your
head to amplify the stress andthe freaking out, you know, so
that that's really helpful toreaching out and asking for
help, not necessarily task bytask basis, but just reaching
out to have a support system.
Yes, that's,

that's a great point, there's, there's two very
different sides to you know,bringing in help one can be
actually hiring someone and, andhaving someone to fulfill some
tasks or give you a specifictask list. But there's a whole
nother way to get help in yourgrowth in your seasons. And that
is absolutely surroundingyourself by with other people

(24:20):
who are on a similar journey asyou, you know, you don't want to
be in a room with everybodywho's on the same exact journey
as well. First of all, nobody'sever on the same exact journey
but But you always want to be ina room with someone with people
who are all on the exact samejourney as you because there's
not a lot of learning learningroom in there. You want to be in
a room with people who are maybea couple of steps behind you a

(24:40):
couple of steps steps ahead ofyou. That's a really important
place to be in order to grow inorder to you know, come to terms
with wherever you're at and kindof figuring that out. Right. I
love that. I think networking isreally huge. I do feel like
looking back in the last year.
I've done a lot more networkWorking, subconsciously, almost,
I do like I do have a networkinggroup that I meet up with once a

(25:05):
month. I'm trying to start myown as well closer to where I
live. And it's just great to,like, get out there and talk to
people not even like, like, belike, be working at home being
an entrepreneur is lonely asfuck, right? Like, it's me. My
headphones on my mic. Like, mycomputer screen like, Yeah, this
is really heavy in here. Like,

which is great.
You know, like this percentageof the time. Like, I would never
want to throw that away. Yeah.
But you know, having a reason toput on pants that aren't
plastic, and you know, to take ashower. It's just like, I get to
go pee today. Yeah. And so it isit is nice.

Okay, random question. Are you an introvert
or an extrovert?

My husband and I were just talking about that
the other day. And I said, Ithink at least with me, it's
circumstantial. So I would sayprior to the pandemic, I leaned
more extrovert, but not like,fully, like, maybe 70%.
extrovert. Yeah. I'm a pandemic.
I'm like, leave me alone. Yeah.

(26:23):
What being stuck in the housewith all of us for two years?
Didn't really, I'm just like,yeah. So I think now, and I
explained it like this. I amstill extroverted. I am more
guarded with who I spend myenergy with, and who I receive

(26:47):
my energy from? Yeah. Um, and Ineed I need it more spread out.
Like, I can't have like threemajor days, like our photoshoot,
like, back to back. No, I

was dead for like, two days after.

That wiped me out. I mean, I loved it. And I
was like, electrified and I gotso much energy from being with
everybody, but I neededrecovery. So I'm probably like,
more 5050. But it just dependson on who I'm around.

Yeah, for sure. I consider myself an extroverted
introvert. So like, I am muchmore of an introvert I think,
but I can extrovert when I wantto, and when I need to, but I
do, I don't mind being alone, Ilike AI. To be fair, I have
never worked for anybody else.
I've never worked for anothercompany, I started my companies
out of college, and have prettymuch always been in this

(27:43):
position. So if I wasn't verygood by myself, I feel like I
would not be here today anymore.
10 years, 12 years later, stilldoing what I'm doing. So I'm
very good by myself. But as youget older, you know, it's it
starts to get really only itstarts, you know, you just
really have to find that thatbalance. And I think that that

(28:03):
finding the balance is thehardest working part.

Like you said, especially at this stage in our
lives, where we're so busy,either, you know, with kids or
not work family, it's just like,Okay, what little time I have,
who do I want to give it to? No,which you know, is what it
that's exactly what it is whogets the rest of my, my free

(28:28):
time and my energy, which mightbe dangerously low. But who can
help me recharge

and I think in that aspect to where I struggle
is when I get to that point, I'mlike, Okay, I have this like
little bit of time, and I needto choose what to do with it.
And I want to choose myself, Iwant to just choose to do
whatever I need, I'm at pedicureor massage or whatever. But then
I immediately feel guilty thatI'm choosing myself over others
and I think plenty of women canrelate to that. But that is

(28:58):
definitely a struggle that Ihave and I also just have a
struggle in general to take abreak because I am just a
hustler. I just always have beenI thrive in chaos. I just
mentally do better when I'm whenI'm moving when things are busy.
And Brown is working with me onthat but that is that is

(29:18):
definitely kind of like morewith that. So okay, so we got a
lot to talk about today.
Regarding copywritingspecifically. Okay, so, but I
think before we dive too deepinto that, I think we should
clarify the what, okay, so Ithink what copy is is actually
kind of one of the mostimportant parts for people to
understand because I think thatpeople hear the word copy and

(29:40):
they are they just don't reallyknow what that means. So Sam and
like the clearest way possible,maybe the most kindergarten way
possible. What the f actually iscopy.

Okay, so, copy copy is the words on your
marketing. So website,newsletter prints, you know,
even billboard if you've gotbillboards. But it's not just

(30:15):
words that the words have asales push. So it's the
difference between copywritingand content writing. So someone
on Instagram just writing about,oh, it was a beautiful day we
took the kids to the park andhere's the sandwich I had at

(30:35):
lunch, that's content writing,there's no call to action, there
is no click here to buy thesandwich, you know, or whatever.
So of course, you're you've gota business, you're getting a
spicy, new, beautiful website,you need copy for that. So that

(30:59):
is, it's, it's the words thatare going on your website. And I
think part of

what you said there that was really important
was that it's not about thelike, the content writing is
typically factual or, like aboutsomething specific. And when you
are building copy, especially ona website, call to actions are
obviously very important. Butthere's also a subliminal

(31:26):
messaging in providing that,like, impulse that they need
this that, like, you want toapproach them in a way that they
realize and they feel, right,you're trying to evoke emotion
with copy, I think more than incontent, most of the time,
you're just writing about whatit is, it's a lot more factual.

(31:48):
And I feel like at least copy isa much more emotionally engaging
form of words, or, or howthey're

put together.
And when I say with a sales, youknow, drive, I'm not talking
about the the sleazy, you know,car salesman, or anything like
that. But I mean, go to awebsite, that that's what it is,
I don't care what website you goto, I don't care what brand you
pick, they have their website upthere, so you could buy their

(32:18):
goods or services, and you know,business owners, female, small
business owners, whoever havewebsites, so people know about
them and engaging and hey, clickMake an appointment, you know,
download this, whatever. So, Imean, there are so many ways
that that it can be done. Butyou know, just in the most basic

(32:41):
way possible. That's that's howI described it. But absolutely,
because, you know, sales isevoking emotion. And it is
trying to build a connection.
Like, how could I have everlived without that Slap Chop
until I saw this commercial? Andthey were telling me about it,
like, oh my gosh, how could Ihave ever lived without this?

(33:05):
resume writer? I mean, me doingit on my own? Oh my gosh, no, of
course, I want to make anappointment with her. So, so
yes, and I mean, that's, that'swhen I really get into brand
voice and ideal client, but youknow that so let's

let's, let's kind of squeeze let's squeeze into
that just a tiny bit. So I don'tnecessarily think we need to
talk too much about targetclient today. i It does have a
big part in it so we can touchon it. But I do think brand
voice is something that isreally important to talk about
with copy. Because I think thatno matter what, even with even
with that definition of copy,people are still thinking that

(33:45):
like, okay, it's just a bunch ofwords on a page, like I'm just
gonna go write a bunch of thesethings and say, Hey, click here,
like, okay, no, no, no, no. Butno, let's talk a little bit
about boy, a brand voice and howyou kind of like, need to
approach the strategy ofbuilding a brand voice.

So um, and this, this kind of circles back
to what I was talking aboutleaning in. So the people who
come to me saying, you know, Ineed to refresh my website, I've
been in business for a while andI want to refresh it, or I'm
starting this business, youknow, from scratch, I don't have

(34:29):
any copy. When when I startasking them about their their
brand voice and about what whatdo you want your company to
stand for? What what are thethings that your company prides

(34:50):
itself on? And, you know, goinginto more more questions, and
then I start asking about theowner of the company. So In this
in this scenario, it's just aone person owner, like me and
Maxie, it's just me. So I askedabout this person, you know,

(35:10):
like, what do you like to do forfun? You know, do you what kind
of movies do you like, and justget a sense of their
personality. And in they'relike, Oh, well, I can't put, I
can't have that kind of energyon a website, that's not
professional. And so that's whenI kind of break down. And, you

(35:35):
know, say this is for, um, likea fun T Shirt Company, just as
an example. So, you want to havethat kind of energy. But but
then these, these women, in thisinstance, are just thinking
professional, professional,professional, because that is

(35:57):
what everybody's been told. Andif they came from a corporate
culture, and then they'restarting their own business,
it's yeah, it's drilled into us.
And then it's like, well, I needto market to anyone who will buy
my stuff. So I need to be asvanilla as possible to not turn
anyone away. And that, and Iwas, I thought the same way, I'm

(36:26):
the first person to say that Iwas like that, too. But it's
like you aren't for everyone.
Your target audience isn't theentire world like, girl, you
can't be everything to everyone.
And I say that to all women,even if they don't own
businesses, 1,000% Because it'simpossible, it's impossible. So

(36:48):
leaning in to who you are, andnot masking, for whoever is in
front of you will organicallygrow your business and keep you
happy and not wanting to justjump in a river, because you
will enjoy working with yourclients, right? Because yeah,

(37:11):
you show who you are and whoyour business is, then the
people who aren't for you won'teven bother you. Like they won't
even schedule an appointmentwith you. Yep. So it is showing
and selling to the people. And Iknow we're not going to dive

(37:32):
into target audience, but itreally is connected, because
your brand voice will attractwho you want to work with. And
this is meant for you. So it'svery important to get that out
on the website. And just becausemy website has swear words and

(37:52):
emojis, that doesn't mean thatanyone I write for that's how
it's gonna be, of course not.
You don't have to curse like onyour website. But if you've got
like a phrase that you alwayssay, and that you're probably
going to be saying, you know, toyour clients, or whatever, then

(38:15):
yeah, let them know who you are.
Because I also say this, whatyou sell either services or like
a tangible product, you're notthe only one. So there's other
competition out there. So whatsets you apart from the other
people selling chairs, orselling candles or whatever is

(38:35):
you they are signing on to byyou, and your personality and
your customer experience. So weneed to make sure that they
connect with you. So that allgoes into the copy. And it it

(38:56):
doesn't have to sound like arobot that be sounding like a
robot isn't professional likethat isn't the the image that we
need to constantly hold in ourheads? And no, you don't want to
offend people. Of course not.

(39:19):
But

well, there's a lot. Yeah, I mean, there's a
fine line between getting overpolitical or over. You know,
there's definitely a line but Iwill say due from my own
personal experience that youknow, last year when I
relaunched the entire structureof my brand I relaunched my
website I relaunched everything.
I absolutely the biggestdifference between the last

(39:41):
season of that business and theend, the beginning of the new
one was by far the copy and theway I approached speaking to
people, okay, so my secret tip,my secret tip, okay, was that I
use my phone, and I put on thedictation and I would speak to
my Phone as though I wasspeaking to someone. And that is
more along the lines of how Iwrote my copy. No, I did not

(40:05):
hire a professional copywriterbecause Sam did not fall out of
the sky when I was in thisseason of my business. But
instead, I, me and my, my pastbusiness partner, you know, kind
of set out to figure out howwe're going to get this out
there. And the biggest tip I hadwas literally speaking to my
phone, and it feels so silly,but it is way easier to make
conversational copy that waythan it is to type it because we

(40:32):
are conditioned to type acertain way we just are. We just
we have that ingrained in usthat like this, this is the
proper period in the properspace and the proper
capitalization. You know, I'mnot saying you should have
grammar errors over yourwebsite, definitely don't do
that. But like, no, don't makeme wait. Yeah, the way to
approach it is you need to bespeaking to the client, you need
to be speaking to the potentialviewer who's coming onto your

(40:56):
site, my past site,embarrassingly enough, I mean, I
like put that thing togetherlike real fast, because I was
like, oh, people keep asking meto do these projects. Like, I
need a website. The BIGGESTEMBARRASSMENT of that looking
back was that that website wasliterally all about me all about
me. It's like, look what I'vedone. Look how old I am. Look
what kind of puppy I have looklike it was all about. Here's

(41:18):
all the things that I do. Andthe biggest transition was when
I started talking about thethings that like they get out of
it what emotion like whatemotion Do you want them to
evoke? What connection do youwant to make to make them feel
like oh my god, she knowsexactly what I'm talking about.
Like she knows exactly how muchcan I will tell you my
conversion rate of people whonow I'm not saying I have 100

(41:41):
leads a day. I'm not sayingthat, like my leads went through
the roof. But my conversion ratewent absolutely through the roof
because I book 80% of the peopleI talk to, because when they
talked to me on Zoom, they feltlike they already knew me,
because they like went throughmy website. And they're like,
Wow, she's definitely who Ithought she was. Yesterday, I
had a call. And this was like areally proud moment. For me. I

(42:03):
think for my brand build. I hada call yesterday and she was
like, oh my god, she was like, Ijust loved your website, I loved
the way that it was, you know, Ilove the way that it was put
together. I loved the verbiagethat you were using, you know,
just felt like so like, she getsme and I was like, That's so
amazing. And she goes, I mean,look at your background is even
like on brand. And I was like

it's me, right?
So

cohesive, your emails, everything was like so
cohesive. And I'm like, That isthe point when you are building
a brand. It is not a logo, it isnot the words on is not words on
a page. It is not the colorpalette you choose. It is the
collective way that you approachyour brand and how you present
your brand to the world, theemotion that you evoke, to the

(42:50):
people around you, the peoplewho are all coming to me as
leads right now are people whoare like, Oh, I saw your
website, or I saw this websiteyou did for someone or I saw
these photos you did for someoneand they had just a great
experience. It is all about theexperience. It is I am very
firm, in when I'm like doingbusiness coaching with all my
clients, I'm very firm in thefact that people do not buy your

(43:10):
service or your product they buythe experience that you give
them. Okay, not even just theexperiences the experience that
you give them. You Yes, likelike Sam said, there are there
are 1000s Billions of peopledoing the same thing that you
are. And instead of worryingabout the competition and
worrying about what everybodyelse is doing, recognize the
fact that no one is you no oneis doing things exactly the way

(43:33):
you can do them. And that iswhere the real power comes into
it. And then obviously bringingit to life in your copy and
being able to present it thattrust me guys, if you update the
copy on your website, in amanner of how you would speak to
people and the problems yousolve for people. I can almost
guarantee you that conversionrates will skyrocket because you

(43:57):
are actually talking to thisspecific person and you are
attracting vibe attracts yourtribe you're like,

absolutely right. And when I have very
similar experiences, when peoplemeet with me, they're just like,
I knew from the minute I clickedon your website, and the first
thing you see is I want toamplify the shit out of your
brand. I would say nine out of10 times the first thing out of

(44:25):
people's mouths when they meetme is when I saw the word shit,
I knew I had to meet you. I knewthat you were the one for me.
And then they kept scrolling,you know the website and I get
the same thing. It's like I wasI'm talking to the person that I
was reading on the website likeyou are exactly like you, you
know wrote on the website, andthat is the biggest compliment

(44:50):
and like you said the conversionbecause the people who are then
booking the appointments or youknow whatever are already He
pretty much sold in the back.
1,000%. Yes, yes. They're notgoing to waste their time. You
know, like, it saves everybody'stime weeding out the people who
are not for you. Absolutely.

(45:14):
That saves time, that savesmoney. And it, it is it is just
even without going into SEO andall of that. Just having the the
language and the energy thatrepresents you and your brand.
Is, is priceless,

for sure. And you have to remember you guys, we
can't be everywhere foreveryone. Okay, so the point of
your website should sort of beaway for you to be there for
everyone. Right, you answertheir question, you answer a lot
of the questions that you know,people have already you attack
those certain points so thatwhen they do come to your
website, it's kind of lucky.
Yeah, no, you're not that shouldabsolutely be part of your

(45:58):
strategy. And I think that it'salso just important to recognize
that it is probably one of thebiggest things that people put
to the bottom of their list ofpriorities when maybe building a
brand or their website,

right. I mean, it's probably unintentional.
Like, oh, what's, what's the bigdeal? You know, like it, I think
it's just from lack of lack ofknowledge, of just the full
understanding of, of what copyis, for sure.

And I think that most people can already
understand why you are a teammember, why you fit and so
freaking, like, just so frickinGreat. Fun story, or fun fact,
one of our recent clientsactually thought that we were
related. And she was like, Wasshe your sister or your cousin?
And I was like, No, it's justlike, oh, my god, you guys are

(46:57):
like, so much the same. And Iwas like,

yeah, she's like, You guys talk the same.
And that's when I said, well,she's from the south. So maybe
just any Midwesterner, you know,sounds sounds similar, but she's
like, Yeah, you talk the same,like, same and I'm just like,
Thank you.

Thanks. Okay, let's move on a little bit with
with a copy. So I'm justcurious. Like, I'm, I'm super
curious. What would you say thatthe biggest misconception of
copywriting is like, what do youhear a lot that like, makes you
laugh? Like, what myths maybe?
Would you debunk that, like youhear a lot about copy? Um, well,

(47:37):
it shouldn't take that long.
Nothing should take that long.
Thanks, Amazon,

right? Yeah, no, you stare at a blank page,
just like in a cursor flashingat you. And that's where the,
it's not just words on a page.
Like, there's so much like,research, for lack of a better
word, research that goes intoit, and just creating, just
creating the voice. That it'snot just, I get off, I get off a

(48:16):
call with you. And I can knockout your whole website, like in
two hours, like, no. So it's,it's, yeah, just, uh, it
shouldn't take that long. Imean, it's just, it's just three
pages. Yeah. Well, well, like

real talk, because I'm assuming that this
has happened to us. I feel likethis happens to me too, in
obviously, in a different sense.
But like, when someone sayssomething like, well, like, just
to write things like why would Ihire someone for that? What how
would you respond to that? Orhow has that happened to you? Or
like, how do you respond tothat? Is a you know what, I
don't even care how respectfulyour responses, right? Yeah.

That specific wording, because no one would go
to my website, see what I do,then make an appointment just to
say that to me, right? So and ifthey did, I'd be like, Damn, you
know, you went the distance likeyou are committed to coming to
see me just to say that. I get alot of, like, if I'm at a

(49:23):
networking thing, or justintroducing myself, like, not
that I go to parties, but oh, Inever even thought that that
could be something that you'dhire out for. Like, you know,
it's just, it's just not intheir in their purview or
whatever. But what I say on mywebsite is you business owner,

(49:48):
have your zone of genius, right,like you started your business
so you could do your magicalthing. And, yes, as a bit
Business Owner, probably juststarting out, you don't have a
whole team, you're wearing allthe hats. And all the hats
aren't why you wanted to startyour business. So, to save you

(50:13):
time to save you stress, and tokeep you making money out there
doing your thing, let me takethis off of your plate, because
either the guilt is weighing youdown, like I know, I need to get
to that, but I just can't bringmyself because I'm not a writer.
I like writing is not what I do.
I make candles and you know,play with sciency stuff and like

(50:37):
make these potions and creationslike, I'm not a writer. Yeah,
I'm like, I get that. I don'tmake candles. I'm not an
accountant. I'm not a resumecoach, you know, so that's why I
hire out for taxes, and youknow, all these other things. So

(50:58):
could I do my own taxes?
Probably, it would take probably10 hours of sobbing, crying,
stressing out. I'm not evenlying, like sweating all cookies
and bottles of wine. Exactly.
And then there's the chance thatI could go to jail because I did

(51:20):
it wrong. So

I'm not gonna do that. Yeah, no, thanks. I'm out.

I just recognize that business owners,
everybody has their own zone ofgenius. And that's the leaning
in part. It's just like, ownwhat you're good at, that's
going to make you money and notstress you out? And, you know,
just make you question, Why didI even do this? Yeah, I could

(51:48):
ease this burden, that willbring you money, like this copy
will get out there, targetaudience, your brand voice, you
know, nice and shiny, then thenthat's what I'm here for. I'm
here to take that time suckaway, whether it's through, you

(52:12):
know, websites, social media,whatever. Because so many times
they're just like, I know, Ineed to do it. I just don't have
time, because I'm doing all theother things. I'm like, I get
it, I totally get it. So justhaving people here that this is
something I could hire someonefor. And then the light bulb
goes off like shit that soundslike please answer to my

(52:35):
prayers. 1,000%.

So yeah, I think education is a really important
part of that which you guys aregoing to be seeing a lot more
about that on the this way tofair by social media, because
that is something that we aresetting out to do to really get
it out there. And to get peopleto understand what it is and why
it's beneficial to hire aprofessional to do that. And I
think it's really important tonote that like, as women, we are

(52:59):
constantly like second guessingourselves. And we are constantly
picking apart all the piecesabout us, right? Like you look
in the mirror, and you or youlook in the mirror and you're
like oh my god, this check istoo tight, or my legs are so
big, or my, my my mommy pooch oryou know, whatever, and someone
in the next room here and thenyou leave the room, you go to
whatever and then like havingthat outsider view of you to

(53:25):
like, explain you and to likeact as you it's like a gift from
God because we could spendmonths years going over and over
and over. This can't be like Idon't know, like, let someone
else come in and tell you whoyou are, in a sense because like
and get it done next and get itdone and get it up because you

(53:46):
know what? It's likely going tocontinue to change. copywriting
is not something that youdefinitely like do once and then
you're done forever. It'ssomething that I usually tell my
clients to audit their copyevery year for their website to
make sure that are the samepeople working there. Are you
selling the same service? Areyou in the same location? Do you

(54:07):
have the same brand voice? Ordid you sort of transition into
a new target audience? Those areimportant things to remember
when you are building that partof your website. So I want to
dive into something a little bitdeeper here quick because I
think it's important. And wealso recently experienced this
together with one of ourclients. When you think about
the seasons of business, and theconstant kind of ebbs and flows

(54:30):
the roller coaster. What wouldyou say is the best season to
assess your either your currentcopy or you know, pursue the
project of developing brand newcopy?

You mean like in terms of the seasons of
growth? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
So, obviously, um, well, no, Idon't want to say obviously
because not every business ownerneeds to have a website day one,
it depends on what theirservices are. So So I won't say
that. I will say, it is great.

(55:13):
When you know, this, this iswhat this is what I'm doing. And
I know I'm getting a kick asslike, Yeah, I'm ready to invest
in my business. Because noteverybody can invest, they have
to, like, you know, start slow.
It's like, I'm ready to go like,to the wall with this, like,

(55:36):
it's okay, here we go. So asyou're ramping up, um, and then,
to your point, if, if you'vebeen in business a year and a
half. And because you're incharge, you're the business
owner, you can change thingswhenever the fuck you want. So
if all of a sudden you decide,You know what, I don't like

(55:59):
offering that service anymore, Iwant to tweak it and lean in
more to this service.

And I think that's huge in the beginnings of
business. Yes, in the very firstyears of business that is very
common,

right, because one, I'm ready to redo my
website, which I already talkedto you about. I already had a
change with my services. So it'slike you never know when that's
going to happen. But I'm alsoI've had people come to me, Hey,
this is like our biggest seller,whatever it is, and that's

(56:35):
great. With this audience, wewant to elevate the next package
to get a higher kind of customeror client. So we need to change
the voice for that just a littlebit. So if you are adding new

(56:55):
services that are for acompletely different audience,
if you just decided, I'm notdoing that anymore, I'm totally
rebranding. And now I'm onlydoing consultancies, like, over
zoom, you know, so then we needto change that. But and also to
your point, it's good to audityour copy. Because when you're

(57:18):
so used to it, it's easy to justforget about it. And honestly,
how often are we on our ownwebsites? We're probably not
looking at them every day. Soit's just like, Oh, it's this
thing that's working for me inthe background. Okay, it's
chugging along,

maybe you're not looking at yours every day, but
I'm in there changing. God knowswhat every day. Well, okay.

I'm just saying as an example, maybe not
everyone is Jessie,

that everyone's me, thank God for that I would
feel bad for a lot of people. Soit's just, you know, set the
time on your calendar, toreevaluate your business to
reassess it and to just look andmake sure, maybe your pricing,
maybe your pricing change?
Absolutely, I was just gonna saythat's more of a practice.
That's just a good businesspractice. That's not even has
nothing to do with copy or yourweb design or any of those

(58:08):
things at this point. Likethat's just good business
practice to assess all of thosethings on a yearly basis to make
sure that you're going in theright direction. Make sure that
you're feeling fulfilled in thedirection and that you're not
wasting your own time and energyon something that's not actually
right for you.

Right, absolutely. That's why it's just
like okay, no, I don't want todo this anymore. Because I sat
down I thought about it. Do Ikind of dread having to do this
this thing that I'm offeringwell then that's a that's a
light bulb moment. Yeah. So it'sjust like, Okay, I'm the boss. I
don't want to offer thatanymore. I really enjoy doing
this so let's amplify that outthere with with our copy with

(58:49):
our strategy.

Yeah, for sure.
So I feel like I feel like a lotof listeners are probably like
literally like oh my god, likethey they see me I am the person
like hiding in the cornerraising my hand because yeah,
I'm that person that hasn't doneXYZ like gosh, I think it's time
for me to like take a differentapproach to my brand and really
focus on you know, buildingbetter copy. What is the biggest

(59:12):
piece of advice that you wouldgive to them when it comes to
finding and hiring a

copywriter?
Well, email me. Me. I mean,sure. But just overall, I'm just
as brand voice is important toyour business. Make sure that
you connect with the copywriter,either from the website or not

(59:41):
some copywriters don't havewebsites and they're still
amazing. But just make sure youhave that connection. Because if
they don't connect with you,it's going to be hard for them
to establish that brand voice.
And also, make sure or that theytake brand voice into

(01:00:02):
consideration instead of, oh,God, just a thought, like
literally makes me shudder, likeif they have a template or
something. And that's like, whatthey what they use for all all
of my home pages, you know, thisis this is how I do it. It's
like, oh my god. So, you know,every business and business

(01:00:27):
owner is a special snowflakelike they, they are their own
unique, you know, like, you'renot a cookie cutter. So your
copy shouldn't be. And that'swhat I say. So it's like, make
sure that your copywriterdoesn't have like this, well, I
have to check these three boxes,I always do this. And I always
do this. And I always do that.
It's just like, well, then areyou seeing me and my business

(01:00:49):
and my personality as anindividual, like, so we can
really dive deep and, you know,really get to what's important
to me. And, you know, just justmake sure that, you know,
there's that there's that lovefest, you know, just like the
first time you know, that youmeet, it's like, I really want

(01:01:10):
to know that I connect, Iconnect with you. And vice
versa. Like there are someclients that I just won't take
on. Because it in the end, itnever never goes the way it
should. And I'm using the wordshould but yeah, when there's

(01:01:30):
that feeling, I'm just like, Ishouldn't take them.

Jessi Cabanin (01:01:35):
I'm a big believer in that gut feeling.
You know, I'm a big believer inthat gut feeling because, you
know, there's a reason we getthose gut feelings. There's a
difference though, between a gutfeeling and like, like butterfly
fear, for me kind of thing.
There's a difference. Andfiguring out the difference is
sometimes half of the battle.
But yeah, I feel like yes, like,totes, totes, McGoats, right?

(01:01:57):
Totes, like, a special snowflakeis now going to be my, my
favorite term. Like ever.
Everyone has

Samantha Campen (01:02:05):
their special snowflake thing. Yeah, I love
you to do it, embrace it.

I love that.
Okay, so let's just say becauseI know that everyone's in a
different season in business, Iknow that the way the economy is
everybody is in a very differentseasons of maybe their personal
lives as well, theircircumstance, whatever it is. So
let's say that hiring acopywriter, it's just not in the
budget right now. Like it isjust not in the budget in the
current season. You know, we'reall there, like do not feel

(01:02:30):
shame for being in a positionwhere you do not have the budget
to hire someone for something,that's okay, you should never
feel shame for that. Becausethere are always seasons and
every season is going to startand it is going to end and it's
going to transition intosomething else all about
prioritizing. I get it laid outprofessionals, we cost money.

(01:02:50):
And it's definitely aninvestment, especially when you
find that right fit, it'sdefinitely an investment. So
let's just say it's not in thebudget, can you give our
listeners two major tips for DIYbuying their own copy, or a DIY
maybe that maybe one tip forbrand voice and one tip for like
actually writing the copy?

Well, I I'm big on inspiration. And I would I
would recommend. And thisdoesn't have to be a similar
website, in your own industry.
It could be any brand that youlove, and we all know good good
branding, and you click onsomething you're just like, holy

(01:03:33):
shit, like,

approve that can't unsee that.

I know I'm I'm haunted forever. And then I
forward it to everybody becauseI'm like, if I look at this, you
all have to look at

it too. But then all of your friends start to
send you like I get that all thetime I get people who send me
screenshots of things andthey're just like, they need you
in your their life. Things.

Yeah, obviously. But go to a website
if you're writing web copy, goto a few websites that you
really like like either the thetone or the layout or even even
how you break out, you know,sentences and if you like how

(01:04:18):
they have like a couplesentences and then they have
like a bulleted list and then itgoes to like another sentence.
whatever inspires you whateveryou connect with. Use that as
your inspiration. Obviouslyyou're not going to copy it word
for word we know not to do that.

Do we though I mean I feel like that's worth
saying again for the people inthe back because just

throwing it out there and I still reminder.
copyright violation, whatever.
So another episode, right? Sojust just get inspired because
if this isn't something you'vedone before, then that can that
can kind of get your juicesflowing and you know get Have
you some sort of creative spark

that can help give you a little outline to I
feel like just the types ofinformation that you sort of
need to fill? When I'm buildingweb design, and I use if they
don't have their imagery yet,and I'm using stock photos, I've
gotten this numerous time wherepeople will say, I know that's
obviously a stock photo, but Iknow that it was really helpful
to know what kind of photo Ineed to replace it with. So

(01:05:26):
giving them sort of like, itgives them a starting point, to
get an idea of the kinds ofinformation that they need to
gather. Okay, I like that wasnumber two even.

And even backing into it, like so many
times. You could be like, Well,I don't know what I like, but I
know I don't like that.

Yes, so a huge believer in and just just cancel
out the things you don't like,that's way easier. And

that can also funnel you towards Okay, now now
I kind of it's overwhelming whenyou've got the whole internet in
front of you, it's like, right.
Um, so that that's a suggestion.
And then like actually writingit. I really liked your
suggestion, I, I personallycannot do voice notes or, or

(01:06:14):
anything like that is just not,I just can't. Yeah, so, um, but
I know a lot of people can. So Ireally liked what you suggested.
And just just talk, and thenpull some things out of there.
And then, you know, maybe makeit grammatically correct throw

(01:06:35):
in a comma, because I'm sure runon sentences. You know, like,
when we

Yeah, Siri doesn't always fully understand
the assignment,

right? And do that also, um, you know, ask,
ask some family or friends like,okay, what are the three? The
three descriptive sentences youthink of when I'm thinking of my

(01:07:03):
business? And then that can helplaunch your creativity? Or you
could just use them? For sure.
And then kind of kind of go fromthere. But yeah, looking at a
blank page when you're not usedto doing that when your zone of
genius isn't writing. It's, it'sintimidating. Yeah. And, and

(01:07:24):
sometimes, I like, I still havelike a paper calendar, and I
love writing things by hand. Sosometimes, that might be a
better way to kind of Jumpstart.
So it's totally okay, if you gofull analog, and, you know,

(01:07:45):
write things with a paper andpen. If you're just like typing,
you know, that's not really whatI do, then, you know, write it
down. And maybe, maybe you seesomething when you're driving,
and you're just like, oh, shit,I want to use that. And then,
you know, jot it down.

That is a reason why I use my phone the most, I
think, because my best like, Imean, my million dollar ideas
come to me when I'm driving inthe freaking car. Yeah, I'm not
gonna pull my notebook out andwrite on it and crash my car and
all my dreams go out the window.
But like, I have so many voicememos and just notes that were
dictated like, words, becausewhen you're thinking the
clearest, you gotta write thatdown. You wanna you want to

totally lose it. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so I
mean, I'm also, I also recommendsetting time in your day, market
on your calendar, like, Okay, Idon't want to I'm scared, I'm
intimidated, or I know, I won'tdo it right, or whatever. But I

(01:08:46):
need to dedicate just thislittle bit of time, you don't
have to two hours like no, ifthis isn't, if this isn't
something you're used to. Don'toverwhelm yourself, you know,
say, like, 20 minutes, I will, Iwill just try to make a dent in
my copy, and then build up yourconfidence and go from there.

I think it's important to just start so like,
even if you start typing, or youstart writing, the first thing
that you write now, right downmight not be what actually makes
it to your website, but it'sbetter than a blank page, right?
And it can start that momentumof starting to get something and
you know what, you can also havepeople review it when you're

(01:09:28):
done. You can always havesomeone else review it to say
like, Hey, you know, like, Doesthis sound like me or you know,
and compare. So I love this. Ilove I frickin love all of this.
So, we always end our chats withthe same important question.
Okay, so what does success meanto you? How do you define it? Or
how would you describe success?

For me personally? Yep. Success means
reaching my goals and you know,they they change all the time.
Yeah, I'm reaching my goals andnot going crazy while doing it.

That's like a double win win right there.
Because,

I mean, I used to get off track, I made a very
intentional choice. I'm like, I,I won't. I won't do anything
that will absolutely jeopardize,like my mental health, which
then trickles into my physicalhealth, which then, you know,

(01:10:32):
all the everything falls apart,like with the family, I'm just
like, Okay, I'm not going tooverburden myself. Yeah. And the
waterfall effect. Right? Right.
So reaching, reaching my goals.
I always also have to feel likeI'm in motion with my business.

(01:10:52):
Like, it doesn't matter howsmall just like, just even the
tiniest, tiniest bit of momentumtowards what I want to do. Yeah.
So So that's, that's importantto me,

too. Yes. I love that. Sam. Thank you so much for
joining me today to open up theconversation, copywriting in
general brand voice and justlife as a mompreneur. You know,
so many people relate to thethings that we talk about that
they wish that they either couldtalk about, or that they wish
they heard it more, they I thinkthat a lot of people have told

(01:11:27):
me that they just feel a lotless alone, once they can hear
others talking about a lot ofthe same problems that they
have. And that is definitelypart of the mission. So Sam, if
listeners aren't totally vibingwith this, they want more they
need you in their life rightnow. Where can they find you? Or
what is the best way for them toget in touch with you?

My website is Maxi consulting llc.com. And I
have a scheduler down at thebottom. And if you are looking
for some copy love, then you canschedule a discovery call with
me and we can chat but it goesover all of my copywriting
services and the price startingpoints. And I just love to get

(01:12:15):
hyped.

Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. I want to hear about your
business. How can we how can weblow this shit up? Let's go.

Blow this shit out. We're gonna blow this shit
up. I am going to put all thatshit she just said in the show
notes so that it is nice andeasy for you guys in case you
are driving in the car or onyour walk or whatever, you're
not ready to actually reach outin this, like minute. I will
link it all in the show notesfor you guys. Sam, thank you so
much for coming. I will share itwith you guys soon. I hope you

(01:12:46):
really enjoy today'sconversation. I'm super curious
to know what your biggesttakeaway was from today. So go
ahead and share this episode onsocial media. Make sure you tag
me at this way to fabulous andlet me know what you connected
with. What did you learn fromthe episode and what action item
are you going to take today?
Until next time, guys, keeppushing, keep dreaming. And

(01:13:06):
let's keep on redefiningfabulous chatroom guys

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